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Thread: Black Canyon Corridor Travel Management Plan and EA

  1. #46
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    Buckeye, Az.
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    Re: Black Canyon Corridor Travel Management Plan and EA

    I was told at the Buckeye meeting that you can submit your comments in text form on an email and that it doesn't have to be on the comment form. The most important thing is to get the comments in.

    Nice work Huck!
    Non-College Educated Working Class White Deplorable....

  2. #47

    Re: Black Canyon Corridor Travel Management Plan and EA

    AZ OHV folks... spread far and wide to ensure BLM DOES NOT close these routes, thanks to our AZ legislators passing and the governor signing into law that much of what BLM is trying to do is illegal in this state as it pertains to the RMP for Bumble Bee area.

    This was drafted by American Mining Rights Association #AMRA

    Currently proposed Arizona road closures by BLM and what to do about them:

    We are currently in Arizona and spoke at the GPAA Gold Fever West Valley Chapter last night about a new proposal by the BLM to close 505 miles of of public land roads under their Travel Management Plan. Most of these lands are used by miners, recreationalists, hikers, campers, hunters and off-roaders. What BLM is doing is proposing changes these currently accessible roads, or basically........restricts your access to your lands.

    Here is the link to their plan:

    https://eplanning.blm.gov/epl-front-...rojectId=78300

    Kevin Hoagland asked us to speak last night at the Chapter meeting and when Jere and I were preparing for the discussion, we decided to do a little research on the computer about RS2477 roads in Arizona and whoa did we find a gem.

    First of all, RS2477 (revised statute 2477) is a part of the original 1872 mining grant. In a nutshell, it states the roads and travel routes must remain open for exploration, mining and usage. In 1976, Congress passed FLPMA, the Federal Lands Policy Management Act and claim they now can close all the roads willy-nilly at their discretion. Well, not so fast BLM and USFS. Under 2477, they cannot close any roads which predate 1976. If it is a road "created" after 1976, they can, prior to that, no they can't, it's really that simple.

    Just two years ago, Utah took this issue all the way to their Supreme Court and the court ruled unanimously that RS2477 is valid and their roads must remain open and accessible for public use and for mining.

    So back to Arizona and our research........ On a whim, I typed in "Arizona RS2477" just to see if there was anything out there Arizona had done on keeping the roads open to the mining community and the public at large.

    What we found is, like Utah, the Arizona Congress and politic body decided to protect their roads that the public uses and took it a step further than Utah did. They passed a bill telling the Federal Government they cannot close roads under RS2477. So in clear language, Arizona told the United States government, any roads in the state which predate 1976, they will not allow the Federal Government under FLPMA to close them period. End of story

    Arizona House Bill 2175 passed in April of 2015 and signed by Arizona's Governor states just that. Gotta love Arizona and these politicians who told the Federal Government if you aren't going to recognize RS2477, we will and will not allow you to close our roads. (link below)

    https://www.azleg.gov/legtext/52leg/...ls/hb2175h.pdf

    So what does all this mean? It means the Federal Government (BLM) has just given the middle finger to the state of Arizona, the residents, claim owners and folks who like to use these roads and is saying we don't care what you say, that you passed a bill and we are going to ignore a "grant" passed by Congress in 1872 and are proposing to close your roads anyway.

    So what do the folks in Arizona do?

    Call the sponsors of HB2175, the bill which was passed telling the BLM they can't close these roads and ask these Congress folks what they are going to do about it. Make them stand up for you again. I would assume these politicians are going to be pretty upset the BLM is ignoring their laws they pass in this great state.

    Here are the sponsors of HB2175 (the good guys who passed the bill on your behalf), call them today:

    Rep Mark Finchem District 11
    (602) 926-3122

    Rep Bob Thorpe District 6
    (602) 926-5219

    Rep Brenda Barton District 6
    (602) 926-4129

    Senator Sonny Borelli District 5
    (602) 926-5051

    Rep Regina Cobb District 5
    (602) 926-3126

    Rep Vince Leach District 11
    (602) 926-3106

    Senator Steve Smith District 11
    (602) 926-5685

    Also as a part of our research, Jere found this statement put out by the Arizona Attorney General in which he reasserts these roads will remain open. It's a great read and goes further than any other state we have ever seen in protecting your public lands and road access. Man do we love this state.

    https://www.azag.gov/sgo-opinions/re...477-rights-way

    So here it is folks. Arizona passed a law saying the roads must be kept open, BLM is thumbing their nose at you and it is now up to you to call these politicians and first of all thank them for passing HR2175, and then tell them to make the BLM back off.

    There it is.............don't sit there and be silent, CALL.

    We will absolutely be calling the Attorney General on your behalf and will be calling each and every one of these politicians, we just ask you do the same.
    yah, Huck you newbie, Rubicon drivin', mall Cruisin', bling-bling, bolt-on, got no drivin skillz, drove thru a AutoZone with a crap magnet attached, H2 wannabe, poseur! Pay attention!
    If you would pry your sorry arse out the Scottsdale Fashion Square once in a while you would know more about the BLM and the USFS (you do know those acronyms, right?).

  3. #48

    Re: Black Canyon Corridor Travel Management Plan and EA

    Someone followed up:

    Quote Originally Posted by 4lofun View Post
    Thanks Unklhuck for bringing this to light. I called all the reps & senators today & either left messages or talked to their aides.

    Rep. Mark Finchem actually returned my call & was aware of the issue. To my surprise he advised me to call the Yavapai Sheriff's office tell them of my concerns of the BLM violation RS2477 Rights of Way. He also said if I didn't get a satisfactory response to call him back & he would contact the attorney general.

    I did call the sherifff's office & spoke to a woman named Kelly who I believe was an assistant to either Sheriff Scott Mascher or Chief Deputy David Rhodes. Either I did not explain the issue well or she didn't understand the issue or what the correct response should be. She basically told me if the access roads were on BLM managed land that the BLM can legally do whatever they want & close access to any part they want & there was nothing that could be done about it.

    I will be calling Rep Mark Finchem again to see if he will indeed push the issue with the AG.

    I also spoke with an assistant to Rep Brenda Barton who told me that the rep was aware of the issue & was actively working with the BLM to get resolution, whatever that actually means.

    Please keep us fellow Arizonans apprised of where things are at & what other methods can be used to harness the BLM's actions & prevent them from running rough shod over our public lands.
    yah, Huck you newbie, Rubicon drivin', mall Cruisin', bling-bling, bolt-on, got no drivin skillz, drove thru a AutoZone with a crap magnet attached, H2 wannabe, poseur! Pay attention!
    If you would pry your sorry arse out the Scottsdale Fashion Square once in a while you would know more about the BLM and the USFS (you do know those acronyms, right?).

  4. #49
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    Re: Black Canyon Corridor Travel Management Plan and EA

    I got my comments sent in today. You know me, wait till the last minute....

    As far as this other stuff with the State Representatives and all, I wouldn't put a lot hope in all that. As much as I hate being negative in situations like this, the BLM land is Federal. The State can make any law they want, and it'll be ignored. If the Feds don't like the law, they'll simply pull financial support until the State reverses their decision. This happened a few years back when the State of Az, at the request of the Game and Fish commissioner, kind of, passed a law where no local LEO could enforce the closure of a trail on Federal land. I loved that law since the Feds are very limited in LEO personnel. But it didn't take long for that one to go bye bye nce the feds threatened to pull support.

    The mining claims are Federal, not State. The BLM knows they cannot stop the owners of the mining claims from accessing their claim. They can, and are trying to stop the recreational use of those trails. Many of the miners, if not all, support them in this. It sucks to see our trails shut down because of "resource management and protection" and then watch a claim owner take a small dozer and blaze a new trail, or improve one that was closed to us, and is still closed to us. This was very evident out at the Vulture.

    Contact the White House, have them contact the Secretary of the Interior. You can try going through the state office of the BLM, but to me that's the wolf watching our hen house, so to speak. Ryan Zinke is very much in support of the open use of public lands. Huck, if you can send him what you have, I know it'll make a difference. Someone at the BLM would have to answer as to why they are not listening to those who know the area the best.

    I know Jeff Dorscher disagrees, but I've had luck emailing the Federal senators and representatives in the past. Even received a call from McCain's office once. But I think he's done.

    DOI-
    https://www.doi.gov/contact-us

    The White House-
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/

    Get involved!! We actually have the right Admin right now.
    Non-College Educated Working Class White Deplorable....

  5. #50

    Re: Black Canyon Corridor Travel Management Plan and EA

    Iíll try the federal route, Doug. Thanks for the poke. I also sent in an additional comment form today, requesting a 90 day extension to the review period. We are still trying to get the decision makers out to the area they are Ďdecidingí upon. I can say that there has been a lot of work going on behind the scenes and there is reason to be hopeful. Thatís about all I can say, today.
    yah, Huck you newbie, Rubicon drivin', mall Cruisin', bling-bling, bolt-on, got no drivin skillz, drove thru a AutoZone with a crap magnet attached, H2 wannabe, poseur! Pay attention!
    If you would pry your sorry arse out the Scottsdale Fashion Square once in a while you would know more about the BLM and the USFS (you do know those acronyms, right?).

  6. #51
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    Re: Black Canyon Corridor Travel Management Plan and EA

    I also sent in another comment form and a personal email suggesting that they take more time to look at this. I pointed out that the fact that turkey creek was left off the route inventory and no one even realized it. That led me to believe that they had not done the work to even present a proper travel management plan and this needed more effort on all parts.
    I like to party

  7. #52
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    Re: Black Canyon Corridor Travel Management Plan and EA

    In my comment I strongly suggested they get with people that use the trails and do some ride-alongs. I reminded them how helpful it was for Tom B. when we did it at the Vulture.

    I didn't mention it this time, but have in the past with no luck, but I don't like how the 30 day comment period starts a week or more before the public meeting; which is when they present the comment card and procedure.
    Non-College Educated Working Class White Deplorable....

  8. #53

    Re: Black Canyon Corridor Travel Management Plan and EA

    Quote Originally Posted by OTR-93YJ View Post
    In my comment I strongly suggested they get with people that use the trails and do some ride-alongs. I reminded them how helpful it was for Tom B. when we did it at the Vulture.

    I didn't mention it this time, but have in the past with no luck, but I don't like how the 30 day comment period starts a week or more before the public meeting; which is when they present the comment card and procedure.
    So, the 30 day comment period, used to be a 90 day comment period. I mentioned both that fact and the fact that the comment period started before the public meetings. We are supposed to be getting them out to walk the routes, but the date hasn't been set. It seems like it will happen in June. Behind the scenes, there has been meetings with the BLM biologist and many of the missing routes have been given his 'blessing'. Can't say much more than that. Things are happening and the BLM is 'purportedly' trying to fix their mistakes. We'll see what develops.

    I also discussed how the plan itself was so large, a 30 day review period was not enough time to get through it. Anyone working full time and needing to take care of life, will find it difficult to read the entire plan and understand it, within 30 days.
    yah, Huck you newbie, Rubicon drivin', mall Cruisin', bling-bling, bolt-on, got no drivin skillz, drove thru a AutoZone with a crap magnet attached, H2 wannabe, poseur! Pay attention!
    If you would pry your sorry arse out the Scottsdale Fashion Square once in a while you would know more about the BLM and the USFS (you do know those acronyms, right?).

  9. #54
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    Re: Black Canyon Corridor Travel Management Plan and EA

    You're doing great things, Huck! Keep up the good work and let me know if there's anything I can do to help.
    Non-College Educated Working Class White Deplorable....

  10. #55

    Re: Black Canyon Corridor Travel Management Plan and EA

    Quote Originally Posted by OTR-93YJ View Post
    You're doing great things, Huck! Keep up the good work and let me know if there's anything I can do to help.
    Thanks Doug. Iíll keep you posted.
    yah, Huck you newbie, Rubicon drivin', mall Cruisin', bling-bling, bolt-on, got no drivin skillz, drove thru a AutoZone with a crap magnet attached, H2 wannabe, poseur! Pay attention!
    If you would pry your sorry arse out the Scottsdale Fashion Square once in a while you would know more about the BLM and the USFS (you do know those acronyms, right?).

  11. #56

    Black Canyon Corridor Travel Management Plan and EA

    Just a quick follow up. We do have two state representatives who are taking an active interest in the BLM plans. We are arranging meetings to get materials in their hands that show exactly what is happening. They want to discuss the issue with the AG and see if they can do anything about the issue/s, from a state level. Hereís to reps who answer their phones and return calls. Those are folks who are trying to do their job.

    Iíll follow up once I know more.
    Last edited by Huck; 06-04-2018 at 01:41 PM.
    yah, Huck you newbie, Rubicon drivin', mall Cruisin', bling-bling, bolt-on, got no drivin skillz, drove thru a AutoZone with a crap magnet attached, H2 wannabe, poseur! Pay attention!
    If you would pry your sorry arse out the Scottsdale Fashion Square once in a while you would know more about the BLM and the USFS (you do know those acronyms, right?).

  12. #57
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    Re: Black Canyon Corridor Travel Management Plan and EA

    Nice!
    Non-College Educated Working Class White Deplorable....

  13. #58

    Black Canyon Corridor Travel Management Plan and EA

    Quick TMP update: Jeff Gursh and I played phone tag today. He left a message stating that most of the routes we spoke about getting opened should now be open on the new TMP plan. They are now going through and comparing the comments to the changes made and reviewing all of the specifics contained in the comments. Jeff called me to discuss some of the comments. Donít know if we will get C4 back, but things seem to be looking good for most of our routes. Hard to believe they are just now getting to the specifics in the comments. Actually, it seems that they left that aspect for Jeff to do. More updates, as I get them.
    Last edited by Huck; 07-19-2018 at 06:28 PM.
    yah, Huck you newbie, Rubicon drivin', mall Cruisin', bling-bling, bolt-on, got no drivin skillz, drove thru a AutoZone with a crap magnet attached, H2 wannabe, poseur! Pay attention!
    If you would pry your sorry arse out the Scottsdale Fashion Square once in a while you would know more about the BLM and the USFS (you do know those acronyms, right?).

  14. #59
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    Re: Black Canyon Corridor Travel Management Plan and EA

    Nice!
    Non-College Educated Working Class White Deplorable....

  15. #60
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    Re: Black Canyon Corridor Travel Management Plan and EA

    What's the latest?

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