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Thread: New law requiring CDL

  1. #1
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    New law requiring CDL

    I'm going to open this up for discussion here. I'm being told any vehicle with a GVWR of 10,001 or more will require a CDL. Also, any truck/trailer with a GVWR of 26,001 or more will require a CDL. All I've been able to find so far is pertaining to livestock and those making money pulling their rigs.

    https://www.abc15.com/news/national/...uling-trailers

    If they do not specify in the rule/law that it's agriculture related only, this could affect some of us.
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  2. #2
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    Re: New law requiring CDL

    After looking into it, I don't think it'll be of concern to the RV's. Just the folks hauling livestock in the heavy rigs with "Not For Hire" on the door, or the one hauling livestock to show or sell.
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  3. #3
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    Re: New law requiring CDL

    10 k is meh but I do believe if your hauling around 20k+ then you should have a cdl. There are way to many people driving around with 40ft toy haulers that donít realize how much weight/ length they have until theyíve cussed an accident


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  4. #4
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    Re: New law requiring CDL

    I don't think a CDL is the way to go for the RV / toy hauler crowd. I would be in favor of something like an RV endorsement, similar to the MC endorsement where you would have to take a course sponsored by one of the RV groups like Good Sam, FMCA or Escapees after which they notify the MVD and you can apply for the RV endorsement on your license. I don't see it happening any time soon since it would require all 50 states to actually agree on something like that. I know many folks who have taken similar course and all agree it was time well spent.


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  5. #5
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    Re: New law requiring CDL

    This spawned from a heated discussion on FB that one my friends was involved with. Maybe I shouldn't say heated, but more like passionate. A lot of these people who feel they are going to be affected are horse people that travel to rodeos, ropings, barrel races and livestock shows. The way these folks are interpreting it is that since they could "win" money or are being paid to haul livestock, and/or making money from the trip, they would need a CDL. I got involved when I saw the weights involved, since I'm right at the limits of my truck. I looked into it and found nothing regarding Recreational Vehicles in the Motor Vehicle Carrier Safety Administration part 390. It appears to be a crack down, not a new law, on these folks that put "not for hire" on their trucks/trailers and then haul for profit.

    Chazur- I could see an RV endorsement being a good thing. Hell, just reading the discussions on this site makes me think a "trailer towing" endorsement wouldn't be a bad idea.


    I'm going to keep a loose eye on this stuff. But at this point, it only seems to be livestock related. Although, there is one lady that says if you are hauling vehicles in your toyhauler that you compete with for money, it will effect you. I'm not seeing it at this time.

    As an afterthought, the CDL is not a bad thing for any of us, or at least it doesn't have to be. The .gov made it a bad thing by making the penalties different for those holding a CDL, like no traffic classes after a ticket.
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  6. #6
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    Re: New law requiring CDL

    laws are nothing new except that "livestock" isnt exempt anymore.

    The big new thing is the ELD (electronic Logging Device) for them. Thats whats going to cause issues. Example below:

    So the ultra4 race guys have been getting bigger and better trailers for the past few years. Most get away with the "RV" classification except that they are all stickered up with sponsors and are a driving billboard. They can get pulled over by DOT because they "could" make money with the racing they are doing. (this goes for motorcycles, dirt track and all the other garage racers). So to "do it right" and be legal. They need a CDL and ELD in the truck. But the big problem is when is the truck used for "business" and when is it "personal"? I think the answer is, its never personal when its a business vehicle. So if you drive home from a race with the ELD running, hit the shop yard and park it after driving the max 14 hours (making that number up). The next day a shop-hand jumps in it to move it around the yard, unload the trailer, get gas, pick up your mom, etc and the ELD will nail you for not being in compliance because you didnt wait the minimum 10 hours (again, making it up) rest time. Its also the same for the guys who race across the US. They can drive for 14 hours and then have to stop and rest for 10. It makes for a longer trip and thats not always possible for the "garage" racers that still have a day job but like to race on the side for fun. Nobody makes money doing it but yet you "could" so you have to follow the commercial rules.

    its dumb if you ask me.

  7. #7
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    Re: New law requiring CDL

    all of us rec wheelers and RV towers have nothing to worry about.

  8. #8
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    Re: New law requiring CDL

    Wait till the insurance companies get their hands in it. They will want to install cameras in each vehicle that has an ELD in it. Or possibly no coverage for not having it.

  9. #9
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    Re: New law requiring CDL

    Quote Originally Posted by OTR-93YJ View Post
    I'm going to open this up for discussion here. I'm being told any vehicle with a GVWR of 10,001 or more will require a CDL. Also, any truck/trailer with a GVWR of 26,001 or more will require a CDL. All I've been able to find so far is pertaining to livestock and those making money pulling their rigs.

    https://www.abc15.com/news/national/...uling-trailers

    If they do not specify in the rule/law that it's agriculture related only, this could affect some of us.
    The article doesn't cover any new laws. Just the enforcement of existing laws and the switchover to Electronic logs. These people are hauling commercially and need CDL"s. Just because they've gotten away without them so far, doesn't mean they were following the law. We are unaffected. Unless you are hauling jeeps for money.

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  10. #10
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    Re: New law requiring CDL

    Quote Originally Posted by 62willy View Post
    The article doesn't cover any new laws. Just the enforcement of existing laws and the switchover to Electronic logs. These people are hauling commercially and need CDL"s. Just because they've gotten away without them so far, doesn't mean they were following the law. We are unaffected. Unless you are hauling jeeps for money.

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    I dont think that "if you could make money at a show or race" should qualify you as commercial. Its a hobby, not a job.

    What about the hobby racers. Say i want to race ultra4. My 1 ton truck would have to be registered as commercial, get DOT numbers and an ELD. Where do i get to say this trip is for personal use (going hunting) and not racing (commercial)? I dont think they would define that, and i would be stuck with the CDL rules even driving my truck on a hunting trip. That would be dumb.

  11. #11
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    Re: New law requiring CDL

    Thanks for looking into this. I no longer have the race team or the trailer with the race team name on the sides and back, so I'm probably okay. What bothers me is the other enforcement that will most likely happen. Length and GCWR for the RV's. There are laws on the books for those, too.
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  12. #12
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    Re: New law requiring CDL

    Quote Originally Posted by ShmUDE View Post
    laws are nothing new except that "livestock" isnt exempt anymore.

    The big new thing is the ELD (electronic Logging Device) for them. Thats whats going to cause issues. Example below:

    So the ultra4 race guys have been getting bigger and better trailers for the past few years. Most get away with the "RV" classification except that they are all stickered up with sponsors and are a driving billboard. They can get pulled over by DOT because they "could" make money with the racing they are doing. (this goes for motorcycles, dirt track and all the other garage racers). So to "do it right" and be legal. They need a CDL and ELD in the truck. But the big problem is when is the truck used for "business" and when is it "personal"? I think the answer is, its never personal when its a business vehicle. So if you drive home from a race with the ELD running, hit the shop yard and park it after driving the max 14 hours (making that number up). The next day a shop-hand jumps in it to move it around the yard, unload the trailer, get gas, pick up your mom, etc and the ELD will nail you for not being in compliance because you didnt wait the minimum 10 hours (again, making it up) rest time.
    A couple clarifications.

    Each CDL driver has their own account and login info for the ELD. The truck could theoretically be moving 24/7 so long as no individual driver goes over their limit. Plus you get a support login so someone like the shop guy can hop in and move it around the yard or whatever.

    Also the ELD is only required for commercial drivers who log more than 8 days per month. Most racers probably aren't driving that much.

    Its also the same for the guys who race across the US. They can drive for 14 hours and then have to stop and rest for 10. It makes for a longer trip and thats not always possible for the "garage" racers that still have a day job but like to race on the side for fun. Nobody makes money doing it but yet you "could" so you have to follow the commercial rules.

    its dumb if you ask me.
    The whole point of it though is that if you are pulling heavy weight you probably shouldn't be on the road for long hours. This may be a hassle for garage racers but from a public safety standpoint there is no difference between a private citizen's 26,000 pound rig and a commercial drivers 26,000 pound rig when the driver falls asleep behind the wheel.

  13. #13
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    Re: New law requiring CDL

    Quote Originally Posted by ShmUDE View Post
    I dont think that "if you could make money at a show or race" should qualify you as commercial. Its a hobby, not a job.
    So on this point, I believe Arizona law has a loophole. The statute states that you must register commercially if :

    Quote Originally Posted by AZDOT
    You perform a service that is a part of your business or have a personal hobby that involves the use of a vehicle or combination of vehicles that has a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 10,000 lbs and operate in interstate commerce or a GVWR of more than 18,000 lbs and operate in intrastate commerce.
    Racers are not providing a service, or engaged in commerce. Commerce is defined as the activity of buying and selling. So until they update this statute I think there is a good case to be made that even a winning racer is exempt.

    Although, Arizona has that weird thing where all 1 ton trucks have to be registered commercially already. So this would only apply if you tow with a 3/4 ton.

    What about the hobby racers. Say i want to race ultra4. My 1 ton truck would have to be registered as commercial, get DOT numbers and an ELD. Where do i get to say this trip is for personal use (going hunting) and not racing (commercial)? I dont think they would define that, and i would be stuck with the CDL rules even driving my truck on a hunting trip. That would be dumb.
    For the vehicle, I think you'd be exempt on the hunting trip example. So long as your trailer is under 10,000lbs and your total weight is under 26,000, you don't have to fill out logs or stop at weigh stations. Assuming you have a CDL license though, DUI laws would be more stringent. You have to be under 0.04% with a CDL even if you are driving your personal vehicle.
    Last edited by BEETROOT; 01-08-2018 at 10:00 PM.

  14. #14
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    Re: New law requiring CDL

    The messed up thing about this entire law is that it assumes having a CDL license means a driver is somehow more prepared to drive a heavy vehicle. I have a Class A CDL with HAZMAT, doubles/triples, and tanker certification. I studied the night before the tests for about an hour and passed easily. The driving test is equally simple.

    Mandating rest periods and the ELD I think is a good thing, but just requiring people get CDL licenses really isn't going to make the roads any safer. I'm proof that any idiot can get the license

    **Edit For what it's worth I'm a pretty damn good truck driver and I know what I'm doing behind the wheel... but the CDL licensing process never put any of that to the test.
    Last edited by BEETROOT; 01-08-2018 at 10:13 PM.

  15. #15
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    Re: New law requiring CDL

    Beet-
    You mention Az statute. I'm being told it's the federal law enforcement that will be enforcing. Does ADOT enforce federal laws?
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