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Thread: What happened to this forum?

  1. #346
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    Re: What happened to this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by calvarez View Post
    You changed my words. I don't know if you did it intentionally, but it's something I see all the time in debate that kills the ability to be rational. I said he committed CRIMES. You then softened that to "issues." The issues should lead to further assessment. Not to depriving someone of their rights unless that further assessment, and due process, deem it to be legal. But the guy had ACTUALLY COMMITTED CRIMES and they didn't arrest him, or do anything at all about it.

    I'm against depriving a person of their rights for having ISSUES.

    I'm completely for depriving a person of their rights when they commit CRIMES.
    I didn't change your words. Almost 100% of the time, a person will have "issues" before the crime is committed. I'm searching for the "actions" that should have been taken by the government, as well as "when" the actions should be taken.

    If you're okay with taking action after the mass shootings, then you're okay with the status quo. And there's nothing wrong with that, except that the next generation of voters are not going accept it.

    If you run an RCCA on these shootings, much like Trump will do when pressured into it, it's going to lead to some sort of action or intervention at the first sign of mental incompetency or anger issues. Everyone knows it's not the gun, it's the person. So we have to separate the two, or prevent possession in the first place. That is the issue.
    Non-College Educated Working Class White Deplorable....

  2. #347

    Re: What happened to this forum?

    Actually enforcing the existing laws is not status quo and would have helped a lot.
    Carlos Alvarez
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  3. #348
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    Re: What happened to this forum?

    Since we're going to use the Florida school shooting as our model for potential change, at what point would it have been deemed justified to take the guns from Cruz?

    1. The FBI received a tip in January from a person close to Cruz that the 19-year-old owned guns and could be a future school shooter. According to the FBI statement, the tipster described Cruz’s “desire to kill people, erratic behavior, and disturbing social media posts, as well as the potential of him conducting a school shooting.” But then, “Protocols were not followed.” The Miami field office never got the tip, and “no further investigation was conducted at this time.”
    Even at this time, it's someone's word against his. Taking the guns at this point and having him go through a mental exam would have helped, but you can tell even by the reactions from the posters in this thread, that would be wrong. This could easily be a pissed off relative, ex wife, ex girl friend type scenario. He has rights, right?


    2. Before the FBI, the Broward County Sheriff’s Office in Florida received a tip in November that, according to the Miami Herald, Cruz “could be a school shooter in the making,” but the warning was never written up.
    So the Miami Herald says the guy COULD be a school shooter in the making...Now can we forcefully take his guns and admit him to the mental hospital? Or does he still have rights?


    3. The Herald went on: The November tip “came just weeks after a relative called urging [the sheriff’s office] to seize his weapons. Two years ago, according to a newly released timeline of interactions with Cruz’s family, a deputy investigated a report that Cruz ‘planned to shoot up the school’ — intelligence that was forwarded to the school’s resource officer, with no apparent result.” In total, the sheriff’s office “fielded 23 calls in the past decade related to Cruz or his family.”
    It's easy to see after the fact. After any of these calls would have been the right time to intervene. But what if the calls had been simply a pissed off relative? This time, they were spot on. But what if it was just a malicious prank?

    It's going to be difficult making this decision without causing some grief to innocent people.


    Could police have prevented the shooting?
    In hindsight, it’s easy to say that law enforcement missed a lot of clues and should have been able to intervene. But at the time, reality was a bit messier.

    First, for the FBI, there are serious questions about jurisdiction. As Dave Gomez, a former FBI agent, pointed out on Twitter, the red flags raised by tips were largely an issue that the local authorities would have been in charge of handling. In this sense, the FBI still likely failed — since it should have sent the tip to the Miami office, which could have then transmitted the information to the local police.

    Putting that aside, let’s say the local authorities did get more involved. It’s not clear-cut what would happen then. The police could have surveilled Cruz, although they likely would’ve needed a warrant. But they couldn’t have just arrested Cruz; they would have needed evidence of a crime to do that.
    Last edited by OTR-93YJ; 05-03-2018 at 03:00 PM.
    Non-College Educated Working Class White Deplorable....

  4. #349

    Re: What happened to this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by OTR-93YJ View Post
    at what point would it have been deemed justified to take the guns from Cruz?
    When he went to jail for his previous crimes.
    Carlos Alvarez
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  5. #350
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    Re: What happened to this forum?

    I heard the new avengers movie was pretty good. Anyone see it?

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  6. #351

    Re: What happened to this forum?

    Didn't know there was one.
    Carlos Alvarez
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  7. #352
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    Re: What happened to this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by calvarez View Post
    When he went to jail for his previous crimes.
    He was arrested twice for civil matters, and once for a "domestic disturbance". I'm going to assume, not changing your words, that when you say "went to jail" you mean arrested. I'm not finding any jail time.

    Can we agree that the domestic disturbance call/arrest could warrant taking the guns and seeking mental health evaluation?
    Non-College Educated Working Class White Deplorable....

  8. #353

    Re: What happened to this forum?

    I mean that IF he had been properly processed for all of his crimes, not just some, it seems likely that he would have done real jail time.
    Carlos Alvarez
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  9. #354
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    Re: What happened to this forum?

    IF is a huge word, Yuge!! If a bullfrog had wings he wouldn't bounce his *** on the ground! LOL.

    What crimes are you referring to?

    And, more importantly, in your opinion, what crimes warrant confiscation of firearms? Other than those in which a firearm was used unlawfully.

    Under the current system, felony forgery can cause you to lose your gun rights, as well as a felony DUI, but throwing your mom against the wall for taking away your X-box, fighting with your brother and others, shooting the neighbor's chicken and threatening to shoot up a school does nothing.
    Non-College Educated Working Class White Deplorable....

  10. #355

    Re: What happened to this forum?

    I understand the current system and find it dumb in some ways. But at least, while in jail, he would not have access to guns. And if he had multiple violence arrests, he'd qualify for the repeat offender classification that does, logically, include loss of gun rights. Ignoring things made it impossible to classify him as a habitual violent offender.
    Carlos Alvarez
    2015 copper pearl JKU Rubicon
    KG7EQI

  11. #356
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    Re: What happened to this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will E View Post
    Is easy thumbnails some kind of fetish? I am getting confused.
    funniest thing I have ever read on this site!!!!

  12. #357
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    Re: What happened to this forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by lethaljeep View Post
    I heard the new avengers movie was pretty good. Anyone see it?

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
    LOL!!!!!! Good timing Brother

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