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Thread: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
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    N. Phoenix
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    Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    Hey guys,

    Can you provide some feedback on the following incident? I'm getting some mixed instruction from non-mechanics and I feel this is deserving of a response from a wider group of people and professionals in the industry.

    My JK threw an error code for a misfiring #2 cylinder. I didn't have the time or patience to work on it, so I took it last minute to a shop while on my way home from work the night before leaving town on a camping trip.

    The mechanic squeezed me in 10 minutes before closing to replace plugs and wires.

    When they got to the #2 plug they stopped because they couldn't remove it. They asked I leave the Jeep overnight, so it would cool down and they would remove it in the AM.

    Morning came and hours later with multiple promises, but failed communication attempts, they finally told me they cracked the sleeve pulling the plug.

    Now they removed the head (drivers side only) and are in the process of getting it machined, putting in a new sleeve and putting it all back together.

    I have a bill for $900 for the machining labor, sleeve install, and labor to put it all back together. This is in addition to the $200 charged for all new plugs, wires and labor.

    Fair? Not fair?

    Thanks in advance!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    North Phx
    Posts
    407

    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Snow View Post
    Hey guys,

    Can you provide some feedback on the following incident? I'm getting some mixed instruction from non-mechanics and I feel this is deserving of a response from a wider group of people and professionals in the industry.

    My JK threw an error code for a misfiring #2 cylinder. I didn't have the time or patience to work on it, so I took it last minute to a shop while on my way home from work the night before leaving town on a camping trip.

    The mechanic squeezed me in 10 minutes before closing to replace plugs and wires.

    When they got to the #2 plug they stopped because they couldn't remove it. They asked I leave the Jeep overnight, so it would cool down and they would remove it in the AM.

    Morning came and hours later with multiple promises, but failed communication attempts, they finally told me they cracked the sleeve pulling the plug.

    Now they removed the head (drivers side only) and are in the process of getting it machined, putting in a new sleeve and putting it all back together.

    I have a bill for $900 for the machining labor, sleeve install, and labor to put it all back together. This is in addition to the $200 charged for all new plugs, wires and labor.

    Fair? Not fair?

    Thanks in advance!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    So, they cracked the sleeve doing routine maintenance and they want you to pay for it? A properly worded, certified letter from your attorney should fix this problem. I would also say prior to getting aggressive, I would try to get them to admit fault in writing.
    JHF Buggy
    IG: ballinbrisket

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Buckeye, Az
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    1,398

    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    Their mistake. They pay.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    N. Phoenix
    Posts
    39

    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    They are telling me it couldn't be avoided, and it was likely the cause of the #2 misfire. BTW...the dealership was last to replace the plugs nearly 2 years ago.


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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    North Phx
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    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Snow View Post
    They are telling me it couldn't be avoided, and it was likely the cause of the #2 misfire. BTW...the dealership was last to replace the plugs nearly 2 years ago.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    So unless, they informed you of the risks, prior to said maintenance, and you still OK'd them to do the work, then 110% i would make pay. I'd pay what i'd agreed to ( Spark Plug) replacement unless, they get difficult, and then i would ensure they eat the whole bill and pay for a rental car in the mean time + any other damages.

    Again, you agreed to pay for a spark plug removal. You never agreed for the other work anyway ( assuming its already done / etc). I'd talk with your attorney and let him explain what will happen should the issue not be swiftly resolved.
    JHF Buggy
    IG: ballinbrisket

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    NE. Mesa
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    6,921

    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    i would wonder if it was already cracked before they even messed with it. I dont know how they would crack the cylinder wall by unscrewing a plug.

  7. #7
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    Dec 2012
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    North Phx
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    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    Quote Originally Posted by ShmUDE View Post
    i would wonder if it was already cracked before they even messed with it. I dont know how they would crack the cylinder wall by unscrewing a plug.
    Based upon his version, i interpreted as the shop already admitted guilt. Had the crack been there prior, then for sure, tough luck you get to pay the bill.
    JHF Buggy
    IG: ballinbrisket

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
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    N. Phoenix
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    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    They shop stated *they* cracked the sleeve in the process of removing the plug.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #9
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    North Phx
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    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Snow View Post
    They shop stated *they* cracked the sleeve in the process of removing the plug.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Well if they were honest about that, then maybe they will be reasonable.
    JHF Buggy
    IG: ballinbrisket

  10. #10
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    Apr 2015
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    N. Phoenix
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    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    As for the reasonable part, I asked "I think you know where I'm going with this next question: you were changing my plugs and now part of my engine is going into a machine shop, so was this avoidable"? The response was "No. There was nothing we could do. It's likely the same reason it was causing the error code."

    I allowed them to proceed with the complete repair. I've not signed or paid anything additional. The work should be done by end of day tomorrow.

    I plan on having a reasonable conversation with them about it, but based on the previous talk I don't believe they will want to budge from the $900+. If so, are they legally allowed to hold onto the vehicle if we are disputing it? Do I pay and then dispute with the bank?




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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
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    44

    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    If you are forced to pay to get your vehicle back, definitely make that payment on a credit card. It's much easier to get money back on a credit card, than debit or check.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    Mesa, AZ
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    2,771

    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    This is usually how things work. It starts with an estimate and the customer authorizing repairs based on that estimate. When things change, they should have created a new estimate and had you authorize the additional work. If this happened then pay the money and get your Jeep back.

    If it didn't then you get into a lot of grey area. Let's face facts, both parties knew pretty early on there was an issue with the #2 spark plug. Chances are any shop would have ran into this issue and you'd be facing the same repairs either way. From here it goes back to communication. If you authorized repairs, pay the man. If you hadn't authorized the work, it doesn't change the fact that the repair needed to be performed. The only thing the shop took away from you at that point was your choice in who performed that work. If you're comfortable with that shop performing the work then I'd pay the bill and go on with life. If you would have preferred someone else perform the work then bring that up and see if they can give you a discount.

    edit.

    For the record, $900 for the additional work sounds like a very good price as well.
    I'ma cookin' somethin' up!

  13. #13
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    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    Was there malpractice or negligence (if you will) that caused the damage?

    I will take the shop defense for a min and say that if there was not and it was unavoidable situation than it is what it is.... A good shop will work with you to help you though this situation. Its neither of your fault and work together on getting you to where you need to be.
    LetzRoll Offroad racing 4493
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  14. #14
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    May 2013
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    buckeye az
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    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    Please explain how removing a sparkplug can or could cause a cracked cyclinder sleve? Or is something lost in the translation?

  15. #15
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    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    Quote Originally Posted by 67jeepsterguy View Post
    Please explain how removing a sparkplug can or could cause a cracked cyclinder sleve? Or is something lost in the translation?
    I believe the aluminum head has steel spark plug inserts and the issue is that the plug was seized into that resulting in damage to that "sleeve" and not the cyllinder sleeve itself.

    I had a plug seized years ago in a different engine but the results were similar... the head going to the machinist.

    I've heard different arguments over the years about whether or not to use anti-seize when installing new plugs. I'd make sure the shop follows the Jeep service manual's recommendation to try and keep from having a repeat experience.
    Russ
    '06 Rubi LJ, mostly stock except for lift, 35s, armor, blah, blah, blah.

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