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Thread: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

  1. #16
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    Mar 2009
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    35th ave & Bell Phoenix.
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    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    Quote Originally Posted by russ1688 View Post
    I believe the aluminum head has steel spark plug inserts and the issue is that the plug was seized into that resulting in damage to that "sleeve" and not the cyllinder sleeve itself.

    I had a plug seized years ago in a different engine but the results were similar... the head going to the machinist.

    I've heard different arguments over the years about whether or not to use anti-seize when installing new plugs. I'd make sure the shop follows the Jeep service manual's recommendation to try and keep from having a repeat experience.
    In over thirty years wrenching professionally, I've never seen steel sleeves for spark plug threads unless someone messed up and installed a heli coil. Are These heads different?

  2. #17

    Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    I've found anti-seize to be a friend on motors with aluminum heads. Hell, I've shot a spark plug out of a cylinder head, taking the threads with it. That required an aluminum plug to be welded in and then a new spark plug hole to be cut and threaded. Weee...
    Last edited by Huck; 03-20-2017 at 10:39 PM.
    yah, Huck you newbie, Rubicon drivin', mall Cruisin', bling-bling, bolt-on, got no drivin skillz, drove thru a AutoZone with a crap magnet attached, H2 wannabe, poseur! Pay attention!
    If you would pry your sorry arse out the Scottsdale Fashion Square once in a while you would know more about the BLM and the USFS (you do know those acronyms, right?).

  3. #18
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    Apache Junction
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    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    Quote Originally Posted by ROXNMUD View Post
    In over thirty years wrenching professionally, I've never seen steel sleeves for spark plug threads unless someone messed up and installed a heli coil. Are These heads different?
    I coulda sworn that someone told me they did. Just Googled and couldn't confirm. I should've done that first. Thanks for the correction.
    Russ
    '06 Rubi LJ, mostly stock except for lift, 35s, armor, blah, blah, blah.

  4. #19
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    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    Quote Originally Posted by TanTJJim View Post
    This is usually how things work. It starts with an estimate and the customer authorizing repairs based on that estimate. When things change, they should have created a new estimate and had you authorize the additional work. If this happened then pay the money and get your Jeep back.

    If it didn't then you get into a lot of grey area. Let's face facts, both parties knew pretty early on there was an issue with the #2 spark plug. Chances are any shop would have ran into this issue and you'd be facing the same repairs either way. From here it goes back to communication. If you authorized repairs, pay the man. If you hadn't authorized the work, it doesn't change the fact that the repair needed to be performed. The only thing the shop took away from you at that point was your choice in who performed that work. If you're comfortable with that shop performing the work then I'd pay the bill and go on with life. If you would have preferred someone else perform the work then bring that up and see if they can give you a discount.

    edit.

    For the record, $900 for the additional work sounds like a very good price as well.
    I'm going with this. Many times mechanics will encounter problems while trying to make a simple repair. It sounds to me like they put your vehicle ahead of others in an attempt to get it back to you as soon as possible.

    **** happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by 67jeepsterguy View Post
    Please explain how removing a sparkplug can or could cause a cracked cyclinder sleve? Or is something lost in the translation?
    was going to be my first question. But it was the head that was removed and machined. Sooo, what is this sleeve they're talking about?
    Non-College Educated Working Class White Deplorable....

  5. #20
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    Jul 2006
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    393

    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    Quote Originally Posted by OTR-93YJ View Post
    was going to be my first question. But it was the head that was removed and machined. Sooo, what is this sleeve they're talking about?
    Same here. "Sleeve" to me means cylinder liner.

    Either way, it sounds like the shop is trying to do right by you. I've been in a similar situation with another car. Had a Mazdaspeed3 with a bad front wheel bearing, and decided to have a friend's shop do the work since it requires a press to do. Unfortunately at some point the stub axle and bearing had seized together so hard that no press he could get his hands on could split the two, so the job turned into a new steering knuckle and CV as well. Nothing to be done there except pay for the extra parts, because the job wasn't doable without them.

  6. #21
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    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    If they attempted to drill the plug and use an extractor, and drilled all the way through it, then installed the new plug and started it with foreign material in the cylinder, you could have a damaged cylinder sleeve/liner. But it clearly says the head went out for machining.
    Non-College Educated Working Class White Deplorable....

  7. #22
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    Mar 2017
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    Arizona city
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    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Snow View Post
    Hey guys,

    Can you provide some feedback on the following incident? I'm getting some mixed instruction from non-mechanics and I feel this is deserving of a response from a wider group of people and professionals in the industry.

    My JK threw an error code for a misfiring #2 cylinder. I didn't have the time or patience to work on it, so I took it last minute to a shop while on my way home from work the night before leaving town on a camping trip.

    The mechanic squeezed me in 10 minutes before closing to replace plugs and wires.

    When they got to the #2 plug they stopped because they couldn't remove it. They asked I leave the Jeep overnight, so it would cool down and they would remove it in the AM.

    Morning came and hours later with multiple promises, but failed communication attempts, they finally told me they cracked the sleeve pulling the plug.

    Now they removed the head (drivers side only) and are in the process of getting it machined, putting in a new sleeve and putting it all back together.

    I have a bill for $900 for the machining labor, sleeve install, and labor to put it all back together. This is in addition to the $200 charged for all new plugs, wires and labor.

    Fair? Not fair?

    Thanks in advance!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Not fair. They did the damage and it should be up to the shop or mechanic to take care of that damage at no cost to you.

    Sent from my QTAIR7 using Tapatalk

  8. #23
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    Jul 2007
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    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    See what negotiating you can do on your own first I suppose. Offer to pay parts but not labor or something. You gotta give a little probably.

    Next question:

    How much is "a lawyer getting involved" going to cost you ? Is it worth the time, trouble and hassle of not having your Jeep while you resolve , as well as finding and dealing with the attorney , as well as the mental anguish for the duration; for the difference of the 900 vs Lawyers cost/effect, that you might end up with ?
    '14 Toyota FJ Cruiser, Off Road Edition
    '43 Willys MB
    LOWTECH 3-10-2007

  9. #24
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    Dec 2011
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    Pinetop, AZ
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    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    +1 ^^^ this. Negotiate the best you can, then pay the man, and move on.

    I would say that the folks who last replaced your spark plugs may not have used anti-seize. When I last did mine on my KJ, it was part of the recommended process.
    Ted - K2AMD
    2006 KJ pretty much stock, but well stocked when I travel!
    Quote Originally Posted by Locked & Loaded View Post
    LOL. I'm one of the dbags.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
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    N. Phoenix
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    Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    No lawyer...not required and not my style. I honestly didn't feel I was being taken advantage of, but some chatter from those around me suggested I shouldn't need to pay. Maybe so, but I agree it's not the fault of this mechanic.

    The final verdict was a little negotiation, but they came out of the gates INCREDIBLY fair IMO:

    Plug broke during removal
    Head was sent to machinist to drill out and bore
    New head bolts
    New gasket
    New plugs
    New wires
    Oil change
    Anti-freeze change
    2 new pulleys
    Labor
    = a nicely running Jeep
    $1000 out the door



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  11. #26
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    Apr 2015
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    N. Phoenix
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    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    Thanks for all the replies


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  12. #27
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    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    That's more than fair for parts and labor.
    1999 XJ Frankenstein, 8.5 inch lift 2x4-4x4 swapped D30/D44 Combo 4 wheel disc brakes 4.56 gears

  13. #28
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    Jul 2006
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    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    Quote Originally Posted by cmanning9996 View Post
    That's more than fair for parts and labor.
    Completely agreed. Pulling the head off of an OHC engine is a lot more work than it is on a pushrod engine.

  14. #29
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    Sep 2005
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    Gilbert
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    Re: Fair? Not fair? Cracked sleeve...

    It sucks to take Jeep in for spark plugs and have extra charges. If the plug broke cause of being seized, and the plug sleeve is what broke. You need to pay. If they broke something some thing not associated to plugs I could see fighting it. Some times jobs go bad and it costs more. We need more details on what sleeve they are talking about. Sucks but its what it is.

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