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Thread: Announcement of public scoping meetings for BLM's Black Canyon Recreation and Travel

  1. #61
    Join Date
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    Re: Announcement of public scoping meetings for BLM's Black Canyon Recreation and Tra

    I'm there.
    51cj3a, TBI 4.3L, AX-15, D300 4:1, Locked D44's, Sprung-over on 36x13.50 Bias Iroks, 101.5" wheelbase.

  2. #62
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    Re: Announcement of public scoping meetings for BLM's Black Canyon Recreation and Tra

    Looking forward to it. Would like to rock OTR's avatar headband, but that might be a little much.
    Good judgement comes from experience. Experience more often than not comes from bad judgement.

  3. #63
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    Re: Announcement of public scoping meetings for BLM's Black Canyon Recreation and Tra

    I'll be there tonight.
    http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=4721&dateline=1301279  261

  4. #64

    Re: Announcement of public scoping meetings for BLM's Black Canyon Recreation and Tra

    See you guys there. I'll be the guy in the red shirt....
    yah, Huck you newbie, Rubicon drivin', mall Cruisin', bling-bling, bolt-on, got no drivin skillz, drove thru a AutoZone with a crap magnet attached, H2 wannabe, poseur! Pay attention!
    If you would pry your sorry arse out the Scottsdale Fashion Square once in a while you would know more about the BLM and the USFS (you do know those acronyms, right?).

  5. #65
    Join Date
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    The Cloud
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    Re: Announcement of public scoping meetings for BLM's Black Canyon Recreation and Tra

    I'll be there, but don't have a red shirt as my last two have been rotated out of usage due to too many slag burn holes in them.
    Quote Originally Posted by djui5 View Post
    I'm an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by My Green Jeep View Post
    I have no clue...

  6. #66
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    North PHX
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    Re: Announcement of public scoping meetings for BLM's Black Canyon Recreation and Tra

    I am looking forward to attending tonight. I can only stay till about 6:30 due to coaching basketball.

  7. #67
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    Re: Announcement of public scoping meetings for BLM's Black Canyon Recreation and Tra

    Interesting meeting, for sure, with good representation from OHV.

    Check this site for BLM's maps, recommendations and details.
    http://blackcanyon.mindmixer.com

    Given that there are 2 members and 7 lurkers currently watching this thread, please pm me for deets.
    Good judgement comes from experience. Experience more often than not comes from bad judgement.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    Re: Announcement of public scoping meetings for BLM's Black Canyon Recreation and Tra

    Good to meet a few more VJC members tonite. Offroad users outnumbered the other interest groups there. Encourage everyone unable to attend to visit the site Cactus Ed posted - BLM created it as a board for comments. Round two is sometime this fall, planned implementation end of 2015 if i recall correctly.

  9. #69
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    Buckeye, Az.
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    Re: Announcement of public scoping meetings for BLM's Black Canyon Recreation and Tra

    As a reminder, they sometimes have a rule where only the people that comment can protest the final decision. So, if you sit on your hands now, you may be silenced in the future.

    Also, don't wait for others to make it happen for you. As far as the trails not being on the inventory, Look up the email addresses of the BLM people at the top of the food chain and send them you thoughts and your maps and your pictures. if you wait and expect someone else to act for you it will end disappointingly. Jeff Gursh and AZOHVC have file folders a foot thick of trails and projects they are working on. They NEED us to be our own voice.

    Rant over. Sorry I missed the meeting. Thanks for the link Cactus Ed!
    Non-College Educated Working Class White Deplorable....

  10. #70
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    Re: Announcement of public scoping meetings for BLM's Black Canyon Recreation and Tra

    I attended and i realy could not think of any thing constructive. All of the concerns they are adressing are problems creative by idiots being idiots and breaking the laws. They ahould be prosecuted. That would solve most of the concerns

    Sent from my SCH-S738C using Tapatalk

  11. #71
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    Re: Announcement of public scoping meetings for BLM's Black Canyon Recreation and Tra

    Quote Originally Posted by jmfrxjxpert View Post
    I attended and i realy could not think of any thing constructive. All of the concerns they are adressing are problems creative by idiots being idiots and breaking the laws. They ahould be prosecuted. That would solve most of the concerns

    Sent from my SCH-S738C using Tapatalk
    If there was enforcement of current laws there would be no need for any of this. That is the most common comment. It is constructive and I suggest putting it in your comment. Why initiate more rules if they can't enforce the ones we have now?
    Non-College Educated Working Class White Deplorable....

  12. #72

    Re: Announcement of public scoping meetings for BLM's Black Canyon Recreation and Tra

    It was good to see so many Red Shirts and old friends, at the meeting. The meeting went like the first ones for the Table Mesa RMP, with some good information about what they are trying to do and plenty of time for comments. I would say about 50 people were there and Tom B, mentioned that the Mayer mtg also had 50 in attendance. Now, is the time to speak up and let your thoughts/wishes for that area be known. The BLM is looking to hear 'original' ideas and not see the same form letter sent to them from different people. Let them know how you use the area, how often you use it, and what you would like to see added or changed.

    You've got until JULY 15th to do this. After that, the comment period is over and the next meeting will be for discussing how the plan came out. Move now, time is ticking...

    Feeling like I know a few of the players, now, and am getting this process figured out. I had the opportunity to speak with Tom B before the meeting and know that our presence/input makes a difference. A few of us also stuck around late and had the opportunity to meet the BLM Officer who enforces the area and closed the trails. It was a good opportunity for her to put some faces with the users of the trails and for her to explain her side, as well.

    Takeaways:

    1) Per the BLM, this area is designated as a recreational usage area and that is the BLM's primary purpose, when planning this area's future 'look'. If you want trails, Kiosks, land use friendly activities, then ask for them. This area is meant to host those activities/uses. The idea that trails can be added to the inventory and 'closed' ones re-opened, is a distinct possibility.

    2) There are facets or characteristics of this area that will influence the BLM's thought processes: A) The desert tortoise designation in this area, is not as high as it is for Table Mesa. I believe the replacement numbers I was told was 3:1, where TM is 4.3:1 (per Tom B). B) There is a wilderness area located within the plan. The BLM has designated an area alongside/around the wilderness area to 'be like or matching in characteristics'. It is believed that at least one of the known crawling trails goes through this 'BLM designated' area. C) Riparian habitats/areas will be highly influential. D) The BLM is interested in being able to create loops or opportunities to loop trails together. This includes Rock Crawling trails, so feel free to suggest some loops.

    3) We are working backwards. We are truly behind the 8-ball with this RMP. The route inventory was completed in 2001, for the plan that is coming together, today. Again, if we are going to be able to keep and use extreme rock crawling trails, we need to prove that they exist and have folks using them. It is not too late to add trails to the inventory. It is not too late for folks with trails they want to run, to get them on the map for evaluation. That is what the link supplied earlier and the comment period is all about. It will be nice to create a trust or partnership with the BLM, so that moving forward, we can proactively have our trails mapped and signed for usage.

    4) I felt good about the folks that came out, from all sides. I heard from many users that had generally similar concerns and see no reason that the area can't be planned to make everyone a bit happier. I felt history was made, regarding the BB trails and the chance to save and maybe re-open them. I felt that the BLM management is trying to do right by the people that are using the land, while playing by their 'rules'. We've just got to learn to play the game and I think, as a group, we are getting better at it. Shaking hands with the person who closed the two trails and who knows the location of several others, was worthwhile. I believe the officer has a new perspective, as to the users, their thoughts, and their offer to help partner to maintain them.

    This meeting was the first step. It is up to us to keep up/supply, our input. Good ideas, presented respectfully, will do well for our cause. Again, anyone who has pictures (or dare I also say, GPS waypoints), proving trails usage, over the years, please submit them to the BLM. Anything, prior to 2001, is especially useful. Any help is appreciated.
    Last edited by Huck; 06-13-2014 at 11:08 AM.
    yah, Huck you newbie, Rubicon drivin', mall Cruisin', bling-bling, bolt-on, got no drivin skillz, drove thru a AutoZone with a crap magnet attached, H2 wannabe, poseur! Pay attention!
    If you would pry your sorry arse out the Scottsdale Fashion Square once in a while you would know more about the BLM and the USFS (you do know those acronyms, right?).

  13. #73
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    Re: Announcement of public scoping meetings for BLM's Black Canyon Recreation and Tra

    Huck pretty much summed up what I was going to say. OHV and equine representation were the 2 main parties there. It was interesting to hear what other users comments and concerns were. For the most part the meeting went very well, the majority of comments were constructive from all the different groups there. The equine party seemed to want areas for themselves where they could pretty much get away from everybody besides other horse people. I wish I could expand on what the horse people said but all I have to say is you had to be there. They have some different views for sure, not necessarily bad and they do realize they need to share the areas just like everyone else, but it was an interesting lot for sure.

    My opinion is that the BLM is starting to realize what our needs and concerns are which is a very good thing. I still think there is potential to lose some really good trails, but if people write and comment on what they want to see and enjoy that would help us immensely as it gives them a better idea of what to look for when it comes to meeting our needs. Again, the deadline to write in and comment is July 15th, we don't have a lot of time on this one!

    Also, I could be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure I heard the route inventory was completed in 2010, not 2001. It's still ridiculous that they completed it that long ago without our input but at least the BLM seemed open to adding more trails to the list before the next steps take place.

    Again, we need to write letters and send in our comments before July 15th. It sounds like the process starts to speed up very fast from this point forward so please send stuff in! The next meeting will be around August, but that will only be to discuss a couple options the BLM has already compiled. This is the time to make the greatest impact as to what those options might include.
    I'ma cookin' somethin' up!

  14. #74
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    Re: Announcement of public scoping meetings for BLM's Black Canyon Recreation and Tra

    Great write ups, as noted this is the process, the Phoenix BLM has worked with us pretty well, and kudos for some many attending. Please write in and make your voice heard.
    Chris
    4 Angry Squirrels


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  15. #75
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    Re: Announcement of public scoping meetings for BLM's Black Canyon Recreation and Tra

    The horse people have always been against the motorized groups at the beginning. Once they are reminded that they can go any where they want and are not required to stay on trails, they pretty much shut up.

    Attending the meetings is only the beginning. People need to comment.
    Non-College Educated Working Class White Deplorable....

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