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Thread: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

  1. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Peoria
    Posts
    242

    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    Here we go again...

    All I am asking for is an honest UPDATE as to what is taking so long, who is the hold up and how WE can HELP...

    Why do these threads always turn into a debate on who's way is the right way...

    Bottom LINE is WE ALL WANT OUR TRAILS OPEN.

    AGAIN can we please get an UPDATE!

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Glendale
    Posts
    5,089

    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    As requested yesterday, please give me a day or two, Jeff will be sending me an update to post this morning, as soon as I have it I will post it.
    Chris
    4 Angry Squirrels


    My1stJeep@excite.com

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    4 Bangers Rule

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    NW Valley
    Posts
    8,572

    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    Meh, just run it. <stir pot>
    Flexes like a boneless hooker on muscle relaxers

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Buckeye, Az.
    Posts
    7,898

    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by My1stJeep View Post
    By no means do I want us to sing any song necessarily with any groups, I don't want to wait, if htat is all you got out of what I have said there is a ton more, but there are a ton of things you just don't have the facts on and yet you are talking like you have the answers. I say if people feel they can do better and have the time please volunteer, I am ready to step aside and take a shot at arm chair quarterback for awhile.

    I will post up when Jeff responds, but at this point unless you want to talk face to face I don't have the time to type it out, have you twist it around and keep going back and forth. I sent you my phone number, call if you want, up to you, maybe we can clear it up maybe we can't, but I just can't keep having to fight those who want to close the trails and then fight here too.
    I'm not going to take this into a long drawn out discussion. All I'll say is I don't like the approach and I feel more would get accomplished with the involvement of the wheeling public. Phone calls and letters do a lot to free up a blockage.

    Patiently waiting for Jeff's update....
    He is very busy so it may take more than a couple days.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Buckeye, Az.
    Posts
    7,898

    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Howyadoin View Post
    Meh, just run it. <stir pot>
    Is this a posted run? What are the vehicle requirements? Are adult beverages allowed?

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    NW Valley
    Posts
    8,572

    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by OTR-93YJ View Post
    Are adult beverages allowed?
    Allowed? He!!, they're enouraged! "Bandits we will be"
    Flexes like a boneless hooker on muscle relaxers

  7. #52
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South Mountain
    Posts
    9,927

    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by OTR-93YJ View Post
    Is this a posted run? What are the vehicle requirements? Are adult beverages allowed?
    Minimum 54" tires, four lockers, 30 adult beverages.
    '93 YJ, 4.0, NV4500, Atlas, 35s
    '17 WK2, 5.7, ZF8HP70, NV245, 31s

  8. #53
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Peoria, AZ
    Posts
    1,867

    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    Are the bypasses legal on this run? ;-)
    The Dusty Gnome / White Collar Publishing
    Follow @thedustygnome on Twitter and at www.thedustygnome.com or White Collar Publishing on FB

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    On the Elvis "squeeze" Bypass
    Posts
    2,543

    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    Rockwells and 54"s, now there's a run requirement.

    Tread lightly!
    Good judgement comes from experience. Experience more often than not comes from bad judgement.

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    NW Valley
    Posts
    8,572

    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by alanzona View Post
    Are the bypasses legal on this run? ;-)
    Bypasses, adult beverages, and running over vegetation are all highly encouraged.
    Flexes like a boneless hooker on muscle relaxers

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Glendale
    Posts
    5,089

    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    Here is Jeff's Response: (he sent 3 attachments, I am going to have to reduce the size of them so I can post)

    To answer the question in short, not it will not be open by the end of December as originally anticipated.
    • Please keep in mind that more than a month was lost during the Government shut down, no work was allowed to work on any BLM or FS projects.
    • There were additional weather delays due to rain
    • New delays that developed as of the Thanksgiving Holiday included work at Table Mesa and the Boulders from 4x4’s and OHV that could not stay on the trails, road racing that went off roads and hit Saguaros, fences that were cut and signs destroyed.

    Additional notes on work 2013:
    • 90 % of the trail work is done – However we will have to spend a few days repairing fence and now adding pipe rail type fence to the upper 42 route at gate due to 4x4’s cutting fence and pulling out cactus and trees to access the route by climbing the hill side. Redoing work destroyed by the OHV community will continue to add to the delays. Any assistance getting the word out to stop this type of behavior would be greatly appreciated.
    • Spent last 2 days fixing river barriers that were damaged by 4x4, rock crawler and Jeep over the last holiday at Table Mesa. Yes it was that type of vehicle, got nice pictures, but those folks don’t seem to have plates on those machines.
    • 5 of the 6 kiosks are in and have maps and info on % completed, but of course the fine folks that hunt signs and shoot most anything have been busy and so it has cost me 4 additional days of repairs on work I have already done plus the cost of materials to replace
    • 5 of the 6 gates are installed as is approx. 300 feet of pipe rail on each side of gates.
    • 80 % of the signs are in - though some were run over by the nice folks that cut the fence and got lost going in on the 42 off of the 205. Thanks a lot.
    • I still have a section of the 1117 loop to build and am waiting for an Archeological Survey. The 2064 down to Camp Creek wash still needs to be completed. Until that is open , I can’t work on the routes. Almost there though.
    • This project has rebuilt over 50 miles of trail , installed over 150 signs , 5 kiosks, gates , wire fence and pipe rail fence since late Feb. 2013................Keep in mind it took 3 years of wrangling just to get the agreement in order to start the work.
    • This is for the whole area: The open was to be late winter of 2014...........at least that is what has been on the kiosk info since June 2013.
    • Currently there isn't even a sign travel management plan yet, that would allow the parking areas to be created so people had a place to unload to play on these trails.


    Additional Notes
    • It is not up to me to open ..........it is up to CCRD.......they will make final decision on when open the trails. The final determination will be when they feel it can be managed and not over run .......i.e. OHV off the designated routes.
    • More trails will open as the Travel Plan allows non system routes to be surveyed and repaired, so don’t rush it. If the area gets over run or OHV will not follow the rules and signage it will close.
    • Groan all you want, this area has been closed for more than 8 years, the complaints did not work back then to reopen this area and won’t work now. It will take as long as it takes.

    Suggestion
    This is a suggestion, but write what you want.
    • Write a letter that says thanks for partnering with the OHV community on new OHV projects and send it to Neil Bosworth the TNF Tonto Forest Supervisor
    • Let him know you support the work AZOHVC does......he does not hear about this stuff........
    • He only gets complaints from the Conservation groups to close OHV routes........doesn't hear from OHV on partnering with FS to help manage

    12.10.13_progress_sign_kiosks.pdf
    CCRD_5.30.13_North_route__repair__Trail_maintenance_project_..pdf
    Name:  TNF._azohvc_Grant_work__update_10.17.13 a.jpg
Views: 164
Size:  84.8 KB
    Chris
    4 Angry Squirrels


    My1stJeep@excite.com

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    4 Bangers Rule

  12. #57
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South Mountain
    Posts
    9,927

    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by My1stJeep View Post
    Here is Jeff's Response: (he sent 3 attachments, I am going to have to reduce the size of them so I can post)

    To answer the question in short, not it will not be open by the end of December as originally anticipated.
    • Please keep in mind that more than a month was lost during the Government shut down, no work was allowed to work on any BLM or FS projects.
    • There were additional weather delays due to rain
    • New delays that developed as of the Thanksgiving Holiday included work at Table Mesa and the Boulders from 4x4’s and OHV that could not stay on the trails, road racing that went off roads and hit Saguaros, fences that were cut and signs destroyed. OUCH

    Additional notes on work 2013:
    • 90 % of the trail work is done – However we will have to spend a few days repairing fence and now adding pipe rail type fence to the upper 42 route at gate due to 4x4’s cutting fence and pulling out cactus and trees to access the route by climbing the hill side. Redoing work destroyed by the OHV community will continue to add to the delays. Any assistance getting the word out to stop this type of behavior would be greatly appreciated. OUCH
    • Spent last 2 days fixing river barriers that were damaged by 4x4, rock crawler and Jeep over the last holiday at Table Mesa. Yes it was that type of vehicle, got nice pictures, but those folks don’t seem to have plates on those machines. OUCH
    • 5 of the 6 kiosks are in and have maps and info on % completed, but of course the fine folks that hunt signs and shoot most anything have been busy and so it has cost me 4 additional days of repairs on work I have already done plus the cost of materials to replace
    • 5 of the 6 gates are installed as is approx. 300 feet of pipe rail on each side of gates.
    • 80 % of the signs are in - though some were run over by the nice folks that cut the fence and got lost going in on the 42 off of the 205. Thanks a lot. OUCH
    • I still have a section of the 1117 loop to build and am waiting for an Archeological Survey. The 2064 down to Camp Creek wash still needs to be completed. Until that is open , I can’t work on the routes. Almost there though.
    • This project has rebuilt over 50 miles of trail , installed over 150 signs , 5 kiosks, gates , wire fence and pipe rail fence since late Feb. 2013................Keep in mind it took 3 years of wrangling just to get the agreement in order to start the work.
    • This is for the whole area: The open was to be late winter of 2014...........at least that is what has been on the kiosk info since June 2013.
    • Currently there isn't even a sign travel management plan yet, that would allow the parking areas to be created so people had a place to unload to play on these trails.


    Additional Notes
    • It is not up to me to open ..........it is up to CCRD.......they will make final decision on when open the trails. The final determination will be when they feel it can be managed and not over run .......i.e. OHV off the designated routes.
    • More trails will open as the Travel Plan allows non system routes to be surveyed and repaired, so don’t rush it. If the area gets over run or OHV will not follow the rules and signage it will close.
    • Groan all you want, this area has been closed for more than 8 years, the complaints did not work back then to reopen this area and won’t work now. It will take as long as it takes.

    Suggestion
    This is a suggestion, but write what you want.
    • Write a letter that says thanks for partnering with the OHV community on new OHV projects and send it to Neil Bosworth the TNF Tonto Forest Supervisor
    • Let him know you support the work AZOHVC does......he does not hear about this stuff........
    • He only gets complaints from the Conservation groups to close OHV routes........doesn't hear from OHV on partnering with FS to help manage
    When it's written up this way, it makes sense why the greenies have their ear more than OHV does. I would LOVE to see photos of the plate free machines they busted destroying things at TM. They should go up right here on this forum.
    '93 YJ, 4.0, NV4500, Atlas, 35s
    '17 WK2, 5.7, ZF8HP70, NV245, 31s

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    On the Elvis "squeeze" Bypass
    Posts
    2,543

    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    • Write a letter that says thanks for partnering with the OHV community on new OHV projects and send it to Neil Bosworth the TNF Tonto Forest Supervisor
    • Let him know you support the work AZOHVC does......he does not hear about this stuff........
    • He only gets complaints from the Conservation groups to close OHV routes........doesn't hear from OHV on partnering with FS to help manage
    Big thanks to Jeff for the response and suggestions - Thanks Chris for puttin' this up.

    More reading homework... along with putting my disco pins in.
    Good judgement comes from experience. Experience more often than not comes from bad judgement.

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Buckeye, Az.
    Posts
    7,898

    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    Road racing during thanksgiving? Competitive events are not allowed at TM so it must have been at Boulders. I'm going to have to look into that since we're waiting on a permit for an event out there.

    It does sound like people are using the trail. Probably responsibly with the exception of cutting fence for access. You got to love the American Persistence. Who was it that said...."wheel it while you can"?

    You would think people would learn by now that closing trails only keeps the law abiding, responsible, trash picking up public out.

    Thanks for the update, Chris. Very depressing IMHO.

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Glendale
    Posts
    5,089

    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by OTR-93YJ View Post
    Road racing during thanksgiving? Competitive events are not allowed at TM so it must have been at Boulders. I'm going to have to look into that since we're waiting on a permit for an event out there.

    It does sound like people are using the trail. Probably responsibly with the exception of cutting fence for access. You got to love the American Persistence. Who was it that said...."wheel it while you can"?

    You would think people would learn by now that closing trails only keeps the law abiding, responsible, trash picking up public out.

    Thanks for the update, Chris. Very depressing IMHO.

    I will get clarification, but the way I took it when Jeff said Road Racing was not an organized event, more like street racing that occurs illegally on the road, but in the case a couple of guys getting wild, racing each other out of control. That could happen anywhere.

    I agree it is very depressing.

    I also agree and we been having to drive home the point that closing the trails only keeps the law abiding, responsible, trash pickingu public out for years. There are a few, very few in the agencies that actually get that point, most still think it stops all the negative impacts and the area will get pristine again. They are living with their heads burried in the sand. IMO
    Last edited by My1stJeep; 12-11-2013 at 11:34 AM.
    Chris
    4 Angry Squirrels


    My1stJeep@excite.com

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    4 Bangers Rule

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