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Thread: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

  1. #31
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    Jan 2012
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    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by dunernr View Post
    So can some please explain what is going on... We have 20 plus pages debating Woodpecker and Trail Closures in general and here is a trail schedule to re-open but we have no info on how to get it open and/or what the Official Status is.

    Did any work actually happen, hello JEFF are you there???

    My1stJeep any info on your end of things?
    This!!

    Maybe the call for help went out a bit too early. Maybe we need to get involved instead of waiting for jeff Gursh (he's a great guy with his plate completely over full).

    Chris, see if you can get the FS contact info so we can make calls and send emails as individuals.

  2. #32
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    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    email sent
    Not enough time in the day....

  3. #33
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    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by OTR-93YJ View Post
    This!!

    Maybe the call for help went out a bit too early. Maybe we need to get involved instead of waiting for jeff Gursh (he's a great guy with his plate completely over full).

    Chris, see if you can get the FS contact info so we can make calls and send emails as individuals.
    The grant was already appoved and the work began early this year. There is a ton of work and it takes time. A call went out to the OHV community, many sent emails to volunteer to help, all had to sign up through the FS Mesa Ranger District, emails were sent to those who volunteered and posted on sites. From what Jeff told me little to no help arrived. Before we go crazy and are not 100 sure of the status lets get the update. If we go sending in emails and getting everyone ticked off, and he is still on schedule we create an issue out of nothing and look bad. I will continue to follow up with him and try to have an answer today.
    Chris
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  4. #34
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    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    Okay.
    If little to no help arrived then it was done wrong. If the FS needs a bunch of personal info in order to be a volunteer then there's the answer. I emailed Jeff about helping and did not receive anything back.

    If that doesn't work I say we send them emails and phone calls. They won't get pissed, it's their job. They work for us.

  5. #35
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    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    Input on how it could have done better is accepted, so please give us suggestions.

    I was told if we got the word out, people would sign up. The FS needed information for insurance since people are volunteering. If folks did not want to do that it may have been the route problem. We are always looking for ways to improve so if there are thoughts I am all ears.
    Chris
    4 Angry Squirrels


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  6. #36
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    Peeples Valley Arizona
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    6,348

    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    My body sucks, but if possible we'd be in to help out in any way possible.

  7. #37
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    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by OTR-93YJ View Post
    Okay.
    They won't get pissed, it's their job. They work for us.
    In reality yes they will tick them off. If we start contacting them and stirring the coals under them when we don't even know the status we are just spinning their wheels. Lets say Jeff is still on track for the end of the year, we start stirring the pot and they have to answer a bunch of emails when in fact it is on track. That tends to annoy folks and makes us look bad, we don't need to do things to make ourselves look worse.

    I will have to say the lack of communication rests on me. No excuses, there have been a ton of things in our lives over the last year, should have made the time, only so much I can do however the lack of updates rests here and I have broad shoulders you can lay the blame here. <Flame suite on>

    All I am asking if to give me a day or two to get an update from Jeff before we go off on the FS and waste peoples time.
    Chris
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  8. #38
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    East Mesa
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    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by OTR-93YJ View Post
    ...I emailed Jeff about helping and did not receive anything back...
    That was my experience as well. In fact, I emailed twice. Once in Nov 2012 and again in Jan 2013 as a follow-up.


    Quote Originally Posted by My1stJeep View Post
    ...emails were sent to those who volunteered...
    It must have gotten caught in my spam filter or something.
    K7ARB

  9. #39
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    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    I contacted Jeff offering my help, and ultimately did get a response instructing me to contact Eric Norman at the USFS. Jeff provided an email address, and gave me specific information that I needed to provide to Eric to put my name in the hat as a volunteer willing to help. There were no specific dates on which work was going to be done at that time -- it was simply "I'll be working on the 1058 are routes west of Horseshoe Dam road first. 532 and 42 roads are in the second phase end of Feb, early March."

    I reached out to Eric a couple of times with my info, and it was at that point that I got no response. I actually recalled that Jeff never responded to me, but when I just went back through all my emails from late January / early February of 2013, I found the back and forth with Jeff and subsequent communication to Eric. Time passes and things are forgotten and after a while I forgot about it and stopped following up with Eric.

    Scott
    Last edited by TreeKiller; 12-10-2013 at 12:37 PM.
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  10. #40
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    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    I signed up with the FS. Think i may have seen one weekday request that i could not make. Otherwise notta. For most people there needs to be an announcment well in advance of the need date. Weekends are the time u will get the biggest turnout.
    It's like an LJ... only bigger.

  11. #41
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    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by My1stJeep View Post
    In reality yes they will tick them off. Is it better for them to be ticked off or us?
    If we start contacting them and stirring the coals under them when we don't even know the status we are just spinning their wheels. Starting a fire under their ***** or stirring the coals is what makes things happen. You need a lesson from the environmentalists.

    Lets say Jeff is still on track for the end of the year, we start stirring the pot and they have to answer a bunch of emails when in fact it is on track. If Jeff is still on track and there is a schedule being adhered to, the emails will be answered saying that, however, if the public never raises their voices and allows this to continue to drag on and on we may never see results. That tends to annoy folks and makes us look bad, we don't need to do things to make ourselves look worse. Ohmergosh! I wouldn't want to annoy them and I'll let you in on a little secret....we already look bad as it gets.

    I will have to say the lack of communication rests on me. No excuses, there have been a ton of things in our lives over the last year, should have made the time, only so much I can do however the lack of updates rests here and I have broad shoulders you can lay the blame here. <Flame suite on>

    Maybe, but instead of flaming or wearing a flame suit, lets learn from the experience. The AZOHVC get's a bad rap as it is for appearing non existent. Let's not add to it by guessing when things are going to happen. They have my email and know me very well. They know I have a small army of people to help in the desert. I sent my email and offered to help. The ball is in their court.

    We all have other things going on in our lives. It's a huge mistake for anyone to try to take on this kind of stuff alone. Build a team and contact the FS and tell them you want that trail opened and you have the man power. If you don't like their answer, contact the DOI.

    All I am asking if to give me a day or two to get an update from Jeff before we go off on the FS and waste peoples time.
    It's NEVER a waste of time to fight for a trail. They will make you think there is nothing you can do. If you want to see the FS turn to an organized and professional group, such as the AZOHVC, for help you need to send them a barrage of mails from unorganized people full of anguish and let them decide who they'd rather work with.

    Really? You're worried about upsetting them?

  12. #42
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    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by OTR-93YJ View Post
    It's NEVER a waste of time to fight for a trail. They will make you think there is nothing you can do. If you want to see the FS turn to an organized and professional group, such as the AZOHVC, for help you need to send them a barrage of mails from unorganized people full of anguish and let them decide who they'd rather work with.

    Really? You're worried about upsetting them?
    You seem to have all the answers, yet I have not seen you at one meeting, not met you over the last several years trying to build the relationships to get doors open. I never implied it was a waste of time to save a trail, those are your words not mine. I simply have a different opinion about if weh should annoy them. Doing what you say makes our jobs harder, maybe it is time for a new group to take over. I will say your method was tried, it failed and we had to come about it a different way and we are making progress. FR42 we were told by the OHV community would never get re-opened, yet is is happening. In years past things like CD never would have happened, yet the relationships that were built are changing times. That said there have been more closed then kept, but we are seeing a shift and hope for a brighter future. If those I have been trying to represent are at a point where they want a change then please say so, I want trails open and if you feel I am not the person to be at the table say the word.

    I agree the AZOHVC often appears non-existent. We have tried over the years to get more volunteers to help out, some do for a bit, then leave as they are too busy. We have limited and one thing that suffers often is the communication of what is going on. Double edge sword, stop and communicate and other thing suffer. NO excuse, you point out a ver good fact, we are poor at keeping in touch and letting people know what is going on.
    Chris
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    My1stJeep@excite.com

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  13. #43
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    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by My1stJeep View Post
    You seem to have all the answers, yet I have not seen you at one meeting, not met you over the last several years trying to build the relationships to get doors open. I never implied it was a waste of time to save a trail, those are your words not mine. I simply have a different opinion about if weh should annoy them. Doing what you say makes our jobs harder, maybe it is time for a new group to take over. I will say your method was tried, it failed and we had to come about it a different way and we are making progress. FR42 we were told by the OHV community would never get re-opened, yet is is happening. In years past things like CD never would have happened, yet the relationships that were built are changing times. That said there have been more closed then kept, but we are seeing a shift and hope for a brighter future. If those I have been trying to represent are at a point where they want a change then please say so, I want trails open and if you feel I am not the person to be at the table say the word.

    I agree the AZOHVC often appears non-existent. We have tried over the years to get more volunteers to help out, some do for a bit, then leave as they are too busy. We have limited and one thing that suffers often is the communication of what is going on. Double edge sword, stop and communicate and other thing suffer. NO excuse, you point out a ver good fact, we are poor at keeping in touch and letting people know what is going on.
    LOL!! Remember the guy at the Peoria meeting at the opposite end of the table that mentioned he used to dove hunt right where we were standing? LOL. That was me. Rox was there as well. I went to three of the four meetings they had. I've been to many public meetings and just as many private meetings with the BLM. I don't need to justify myself to you.

    The one thing you should never do is tell people to hush up about their trails. The AZOHVC has the image it has because of the past. You can fix that. I once stood in front of the OHVAG and told them I wanted to know where my money was going since I had seven vehicles that I was paying the fee for. I never seen you at the those meetings! Does it mean you don't care, of course not. It means you like to hold hands and sing Kumbuya and tell the .gov you are willing to wait as long as needed for them to get off their dupas. If the FS needs money to hire a contractor to repair the trail the money is available in the fund.

    If you want the AZOHVC to look good and start receiving phone calls from the FS instead of the other way around, post up the contact info so the membership here can each call and ask why it's taking so long. When they get BS answers they'll contact the DOI and send a shock wave down the ladder to get some results.

    Again Chris, and I mean this as nicely as possible. Your remark about you not seeing me at a meeting shows that you are trying to do all of this on your own. Everything has to go through you. You even want everyone to CC you on their emails. You cannot do this stuff alone. You will burn out and have long periods of inactivity which will lead to negative images of the groups you represent.

    just remember although we may have different means, we mean the same.

  14. #44
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    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    By no means do I want us to sing any song necessarily with any groups, I don't want to wait, if htat is all you got out of what I have said there is a ton more, but there are a ton of things you just don't have the facts on and yet you are talking like you have the answers. I say if people feel they can do better and have the time please volunteer, I am ready to step aside and take a shot at arm chair quarterback for awhile.

    I will post up when Jeff responds, but at this point unless you want to talk face to face I don't have the time to type it out, have you twist it around and keep going back and forth. I sent you my phone number, call if you want, up to you, maybe we can clear it up maybe we can't, but I just can't keep having to fight those who want to close the trails and then fight here too.
    Chris
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  15. #45
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    Re: FR 42 and Surrounding Area Help Needed

    I don't know how big a problem it is, but I know that, in the past when trying to volunteer on a project, the hours they needed help for were usually from 9-5, M-F, because those were the hours that the FS and BLM worked. They don't normally work on weekends, and/or they have other projects on weekends. And it might have been F.M. who I was speaking with on a volunteer project, that they would have to get authorization for time-and-a-half pay for the weekend if they worked Saturday or Sunday. Basically their working hours don't cater to the public who want to volunteer. They do this stuff while on the clock, we offer to do it for free. I know, cannon fodder...but where's the compromise?
    "I feel like everyone on here is drug addict and bunch of weirdo that makes my brain give me headache!"
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