93794-93818

93794 From: jeepn_babe <jeepn_babe@y...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 4:53pm
Subject: Please help me get me off of this club


I am sorry , but will someone please tell me how to get off of this
club before I am subject to the humiliation too? My Red shirt is now
sitting in the rag bag where I will use it to wax my car the next
time.

Thanks,
Cindy



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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93795 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 5:13pm
Subject: DAVID PIKE


Friends of Tammy..........

David Pike passed away early Saturday morning. His prayers were finally
answered and he is finally at peace. Tammy is now in process of putting her
new life in some order but I'm sure that won't happen overnight. Your
prayers for her strength to go on will be appreciated.

Visitation will be on Wednesday, Nov. 5 from noon to 1:00 pm at the Chapel
of the Chimes, 7024 North 59th Ave. in Glendale. Funeral services will
follow at 1:00 pm.

Tammy's email is: dtpike@e...
Home address is: PO Box 31, Black Canyon City, AZ 85320

Sandee




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


93796 From: <Hydrosense@a...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 0:23pm
Subject: Fwd: WRONG PERSON(S) BOOTED !!!!!!!!!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


93797 From: Mike Chatfield <Mike@A...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 5:37pm
Subject: RE: Please help me get me off of this club


Send an e-mail to Az_VJC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com.

I guess you just want to make a statement about your friend Carol being
banned, if that is the case, may I suggest you and your friend create a new
group the Arizona Virtual Psychopaths Club.

FIRST of all, I bent over backward to accommodate Mike and Carol, even
though it was Carol that PUBLICLY (Reply-To-All) attacked "Sharon" or
whatever Mike's Ex's name is (if there is a real "Ex"). As far as I am now
concerned, CAROL is the instigator in this whole fiasco. SHE started this
by attacking "babyblues" and at the time the only thing "babyblues" was
guilty of was posting Off-Topic (which there is a plethora of) asking about
housing. Carol then attacked "babyblues" publicly and introduced us all,
involuntarily I might add, to this psychodrama she is so proud of. After
all of this, I STILL sided with Mike and Carol and banned "babyblues" and
about 20 other e-mail addresses they sent me - on their word that these
e-mail addresses belonged to this "Sharon."

Then a few weeks later, I'm given even more e-mail addresses they claim is
Carol. However instead of banning these, I just wait to see if they are
used to post messages (of any type) to the group, which, if these e-mail
addresses were used to post to the group, I never saw them. She also
"volunteers" to help moderate, which I ignored; I did not think it wise to
give Carol the power to moderate this group how she saw fit. This group has
existed for many years with a very loose moderating style including several
years before I took over and as far as I am concerned it will continue to
have a loose moderating style. I could have put it to a vote of the
membership to see if they wanted to Organize and increase moderation
activity including Jeep ownership and Arizona Residency requirements, but
based on past such discussions I knew what the outcome would be.

Now fast forward to the past couple of days. A new member posts asking to
join along in any open seat on one of our runs; there is nothing wrong with
this and this has also happened in the past. I do not think ANYONE except
Carol thought that this was an "Escort" trying to drum up business AND Carol
only used this as an EXCUSE after she realize that Amber IS NOT "Sharon."
Flat out Carol ATTACKED a new member without ANY provocation on the new
member's part other than being a female whose post was very REMOTELY similar
to "babyblues."

Next I'm getting e-mail in my box accusing me of "not doing anything" to
resolve the issue. I guess I'm either just supposed to ban everyone that
Carol says or give her the power to do it herself or I'm not "doing
anything." That is Bulls-t! And it pisses me off to be accused of something
when I've done just about the exact opposite. Since it is impossible for me
to know 100% for sure that a new member is really "Sharon" and just because
"Carol says so" is NOT GOOD ENOUGH, AND since Carol has taken it upon her
self to PUBLICLY BASH new members simply because she thinks they are Sharon,
I decided to ban her. I also banned Mike, although, I've since reconsidered
this and lifted the ban on him, providing that if he does remain the group,
Carol is NOT to use his screen name to post to the group. After all, the
only thing he is guilty of is being Carol's boyfriend (or whatever).

If you think that I've publicly put down Carol, then you have no idea what I
am capable of. The only thing I have done is post a couple of the e-mails
sent to me by Carol to the group to make them even more aware of just the
kind of person she REALLY is which just further justifies my reasons for
banning her.

Now if anyone wants to see what a real eThrashing I can give out, I will be
more than happy to accommodate.

Mike Chatfield
Caution: May contain opinions. Point away from brain, especially while
reading


-----Original Message-----
From: jeepn_babe [mailto:jeepn_babe@y...]
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 5:53 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Please help me get me off of this club

I am sorry , but will someone please tell me how to get off of this
club before I am subject to the humiliation too? My Red shirt is now
sitting in the rag bag where I will use it to wax my car the next
time.

Thanks,
Cindy


-----Original Message-----
From: jeepn_babe [mailto:jeepn_babe@y...]
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 5:53 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Please help me get me off of this club

What are you looking for an attaboy, Mike Chatfield?

Well, I for one, think you did this group a big injustice. Both of
these people were constant volunteers. More than most on this
particular group can say. I know that Mike Fissel has volunteered
and helped people like Rob, Jim, John, Mookie, and myself when asked
and I'm sure there were others. I offered to pay him, but he
wouldn't take a dime and in fact brought supplies like gear oil in
which he showed me how to refill myself.

If it makes you feel like a big man, so be it. I have to agree with
her on some points. She's long winded, but I see by the postings
that you are too. I for one, am sorry that they are gone and I
didn't appreciate the escort girl either.

I think on thinking further on this and how you seem to like to
humiliate people, Mr Chatfield, I think I will take off my membership
too and go elsewhere to a Jeep club that encourages single women like
myself to stay. I don't feel that we are seen as equals on
this "Good Ole Boy's Club." Sorry If any of you on here know of a
serious Jeep club that I can join, please send me an email off line,
because as soon as I hit the send button, I am gone. I don't really
feel the need to go through the humiliation that Mr Chatfield seems
to enjoy subjecting people to here.

My 2 cents,
Cindy Davis


93798 From: Mike Chatfield <Mike@A...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 5:48pm
Subject: RE: New restaurant for meetings and car shows


Actually I thought it would be kind of cool to meet at one of the
restaurants and then head out for a night run next summer... or even meet
there after a run, although we'd be somewhat dusty.

Mike Chatfield
Caution: May contain opinions. Point away from brain, especially while
reading


-----Original Message-----
From: Nick N [mailto:nnote@d...]
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 3:59 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; Mike Chatfield
Subject: Re: [despammed] [az_vjc] FW: New restaurant for meetings and car
shows

I like the person from avondale Jeep sending an ad and offering a discount,
but for Streets of New York, I say, "what are you gonna do for us?"
Nick


93799 From: Mike Chatfield <Mike@A...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 6:38pm
Subject: RE: I decided to keep quiet but since you want to keep this up I will say my piece


>> I just saw what you posted on the VJC site. It was forward to me by a member who disagreed with what you did to me and is even more upset by what you just did.

Yep I sure did forward that e-mail to the club, because I was not the only one attacked in that e-mail. Other members were attacked without even being courtesy copied on it; heck the entire AzVJC was attacked.

>> He however wont say anything to you as we both know what you do to people who piss you off. I have lost any respect for you that I ever had.

In all of the time I have been moderator of this group, you are the first I have ever banned because of something like this. I bent over backward to accommodate you and your current Girl-Friend Carol by banning numerous e-mail addresses solely on your word that these e-mail addresses belonged to “Sharon.” When you guys gave me additional e-mail addresses, I started watching for these e-mail addresses to post to the group. I never saw a single post from these new addresses. Instead what I did see was Carol PUBLICLY attack a new member just because she THOUGHT they were “Sharon.” She stepped WAY out of line, and then you had the audacity to insinuate that I “didn’t do anything” that was it. The best way I could think of to remove this psychodrama that YOU and CAROL introduced us to was to ban the both of you. I have since reconsidered, and have lifted the ban on you, providing that you want to be in the AzVJC AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, that Carol does not use your account to post to the group.

Simply put, you have done nothing to deserve being banned. Whereas Carol has publicly attacked new members of the AzVJC accusing them of being Sharon, which I WILL NOT abide. She needs to get a grip on reality, and I seriously think she needs to see a psychologist.

>> YOU talk about putting the OT stuff on VJC , kick me off the group when I was trying to say this was enough and now you pull this **** with an email that was directed to you personally. Shame on you, you are NO better than anyone else on this group and now you show your true self, the Hypocrite that you are. How dare you ban me from the group and then continue to perpetuate the same **** for your own purposes.

I never said anything against people posting Off-Topic, there is a lot of it and given the nature of the AzVJC membership. I posted to the group membership for two reasons, first to let them know what was going on, and indeed that I was “doing something about it” as I had been accused of not doing to several unknown to me members of the AzVJC. The second reason I posted is because the AzVJC itself was being attacked AND other members, to whom the e-mail was NOT sent were also being attacked.


>> This action by you deserves the same treatment you gave me, banned from the site. But is guess since there are no rules other than the ones that you make and enforce selectively that is not going to happen.

Again, your ban has been lifted because I can see no wrong that you did. HOWEVER, Carol’s ban remains in place because she has attacked new members WITHOUT provocation – THAT is why she was banned, not because of “Off-Topic” posts. Heck, if I banned everyone that posted off-topic, there wouldn’t be anyone left except the lurkers.

>> In that case since we have no rules and you continue to perpetuate this saga as you call it by your own email, what gives you the right to ban anyone?

There never have been any rules that would get someone kicked off the mailing list OTHER than sending SPAM and or Pornographic material to the list. Congratulations, Carol may just be the inspiration for the very first rule to the group. DON’T BASH NEW MEMBERS PUBLICLY, PERIOD.

>> Its too bad you don’t have the maturity to accept criticism but like to dish it out when you are armed with less than the facts. The fact of the matter is Mike, how many times did you take the time to go out to someone’s home that wasn’t a member of the "good ole boys" ? Not one. I have gone out of my way and taken time off of work to time and time again help someone that asked for it. In the majority of those cases I was told that I was the only one that offered to help. I helped out at clean ups, I helped out at the Jambo, I donated over $100 towards Sharky and I never met the man. I went to the BLM meetings. I wrote letters and emails to the BLM and elected officials.

Very good, what makes you ASSUME that I have done none of these things? You obviously have no clue, perhaps you should find a store and purchase one.

>> Tell me Mike where are you in this club and what do you contribute other than to your own little circle of friends.

Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t realize I was supposed to quit my job so I could help every single last person that asks for it on this board. Question, who is going to pay my house payment and put food on my family’s table while I’m off helping everyone that asks. I work in the IT industry and in case you didn’t notice, there are not too many jobs for us out there right now, so I do everything I can to make sure that I keep the job I’ve got even if that means spending 60 hours a week at the office.

Of course I guess you assume that the code that runs the AzVJC just wrote itself. You obviously have no clue how many hours I have dedicated to this club, writing and maintaining code, answering member’s e-mail, dealing with psychodramas… well there’s only been one of those. I’m sorry I didn’t realize I was required to keep a timesheet so that I could justify my existence in this club to the likes of YOU.

>> Tell me how many of the 2000 plus, oh wait the membership dropped under 2000 in the last couple of days, members have contributed as much as I have in so little time or ever since they joined? And does it really matter how much one contributes to the club that matters as much as belonging to that perceived inner circle of members does. (no I am not paranoid there are many members that talk about the perceived inner circle)

The perceived inner circle… do you really believe there is only one? You must be blind then; there are many groups within the AzVJC. See people go out wheeling with one another, find people they enjoy wheeling with, and look for trips with those same people on them. Pretty soon there is a “club” with-in the club, and within that mini-group the people of that group tend to help each other out more than they do people outside of that group. I think there is at least 6 such “groups” within the AzVJC that I know about, and there’s probably 3 more I don’t know about for each group I do know about. In fact, I bet that you already are in a little group yourself. Think about it, are there people that you prefer to wheel with, is there a small group of friend you made that you’re more willing to help out than “the new guy?”

As for the actual numbers of the membership, it depends on how you count. The AzVJC website has about 50% more members that the mailing list; it has been this way for a long time.

>> The last email that I sent out to the club before you blocked me was asking for the OT **** to stop and lets get back to Jeeps and what do you do, ban me for that email.

I did not ban you for that e-mail. I originally banned you because like it or not YOU are the root cause of this psychodrama. However, once again, I have reviewed what has happened in the past and have found no fault with your posts to the group only Carol’s. Like it or not, she publicly attacked a new member without provocation, and it was not the first time either. Although the first time *appeared* at that time to be justified; I have since thought about this externally, and what she did then was attack a new member that had done nothing to provoke her, other than joining. Think about this, if it were a real public place where you and Carol are having lunch and Sharon walks in and sits at a table near you. Then Carol walks over and starts slapping her, who would the police put in jail for assault and battery? Carol essentially did the “virtual” equivalent of just that.

>> Until you have rules you are not going to stop the BS and OT stuff and now it seems from some of the emails that I have gotten that you have club members who are afraid to say something that you might not like and get the same treatment you gave me.

The OT and “BS” as you put it is not going away. Again this had nothing to do with being Off-Topic, what it did have to do with is Carol’s public behavior. If she had privately e-mailed Sharon then this probably would have never happened.

And that is such BS that other are afraid I’m going to ban them too. Nobody else has done anything, as far as I know, to deserve being banned.

>> No I am afraid Mike that this seems to no longer be a club but your own personal dictatorship in the eyes of several "club" members, not just myself. I have the emails to prove it but unlike you I wont share them with anyone as vindictive as you.

Yes, I am the all-powerful Dictator of this club… Wait; didn’t you say that “The Inner Circle” ran the club? So how do you know I’m just not the “point” person of this inner circle? Really, I have much better things to do than to find someone to Ban next. Like finish my proposal so that Upper Management doesn’t decide to just do away with my entire department at work… Oh wait, I’m not supposed to have a job, right, so I can go help every last person that asks for it.

>> Look in the mirror Mike, reflect on what you have done and you will see one thing, you are no different than anyone you have chastised in your emails in this whole mess. Now go and forward this to the membership if you have the balls or do you only want to pick on women.

Really? All I have done is try to keep the AzVJC membership apprised of what is going on, so that IF THEY DO FIND FAULT WITH MY JUDGEMENT they may post retribution to the club. If things are as you seem to think then any member can start a poll to determine if I should remain “moderator.” If the majority decides that then they better come up with a new webmaster, because I will be done with this club as I have A LOT of other things I can spend my time on. However, I think that the majority of the membership is satisfied with my performance.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


93800 From: chrisboettge <cheesit@c...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 6:38pm
Subject: Fwd: FW: RE: Hey guys


I got through 2 paragraphs and had to stop.... I think what I got
out of it was that this person needs help in the form of
medication....


I'm really glad I don't have to work with that person.....


Chris

--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Chatfield" <Mike@A...> wrote:
Does anyone want to read this psychobabble and give me a summary?

My conclusion after reading about 4 lines is this: I finally banned
the
right person.

Mike Chatfield
Caution: May contain opinions. Point away from brain, especially
while
reading


-----Original Message-----
From: CowboysJeepGirl [mailto:cowboysjeepgirl@y...]
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 12:50 PM
To: Mike@A...
Subject: Fwd: [az_vjc] RE: Hey guys

You are a JERK and a liar, Chatfield. I contacted you
about the screen names that that wacko had used to
sign back onto YOUR Group and you ignored me. You
couldn't take two seconds from sitting on your butt at
your computer to reply. Is that because you are
intimidated by women?? I think that is probably what
it must be. You allowed that wacko to come back and
did absolutely nothing about it. You never took them
off; do you actually think people are idiots? One
look at the members confirms it. I now know why you
don't care about this site or any others that you
created, as I see you have several. You are simply a
computer geek that gets off on creating multiple Yahoo
Groups, and it makes you feel important to be the sole
dictator over those groups. I've seen your type
before. Well, I got news for you, NERD, I left your
little clique so you DID NOT ban me, as it is mighty
hard to ban someone who is no longer a member of your
sadly run group. Did it make you feel like a big man
to publicly tell the group you had banned Mike and I
when I wasnt even a member of your group and he was
getting ready to close his membership too? I bet it
gave you that little rush of power that you seem to
crave by being the only guy to say who goes and who
stays on YOUR group. I told you I was leaving, and I
am told that even more have left since you showed what
a Male Chauvinist Pig and a jerk you were to the
group. I left your group, because I don't need your
little social club that condones call girls soliciting
and their filthy mouths. You didn't do a danged thing
about her, because you obviously thought it was cute.
I took offence at that and if you notice, so did
others. But wasn't it interesting that ONLY the women
that complained were criticized. There were several
who also said she could take it elsewhere, but Im
sure you are just too busy to read that.... I bet you
are even a friend of this Amber and her nasty friend
Nick. They do seem your type. Whatever...

Then you also allow the all mighty, Joe West, to
continue to insult people right and left, and it is
sickening. You call his insulting people humor??? I
think you two are the 2 that need to take a long hard
look in the mirror and grow up. You guys seriously
call yourselves Jeepers?? Is that simply because you
own a Jeep and can talk about them, because you 2
don't seem to like trail rides much. You both are
really pathetic. Typical computer nerds, if you ask
me.

I did not spam the whole group, you idiot. I merely
alerted them to this wacko in our midst. Previous to
my telling the group, she had been writing to various
people individually, pretending to be someone in AZ
and befriending the lot of them. Including, preying
on Sharky's wife, after he had been hurt and was in
the hospital. If you recall, I tried to get your
help, but oh no, you were way too busy to pay
attention to YOUR own group. You are way too
important to moderate it, and just way too important
and valuable to let someone, anyone, be a backup when
you can't do it. HOGWASH! You wanted a social club
for people like yourself, who can sit at a computer
all day and talk about owning or liking Jeeps. This
is the saddest excuse of any Yahoo Group, not the
members, but how you have let this thing just flap in
the breeze and blow out of any control. You can claim
2000 members, however many of that number no longer
have good email address, don't read the stuff and has
forgot about it, and then there are the ones like
Sharon, who like to keep about 6 accounts going. Sure
you have 2000 members....Uh huh. At any given time, I
have only seen about 30 who post to this thing with
any regularity. 30 out of 2000 Great! Even a geek
like you, has to admit that's rotten statistics.
Other than make a few websites and start a Yahoo
Group, you are absolutely worthless, Chatfield. IT
people are a dime a dozen and many can make websites
and any moron can start up a Yahoo Group. Cant you?
Now, more than ever I understand why this social club
is not recognized as a true Jeep club. It's primarily
because of your mismanagement of the whole thing and
lack of any direction.

Well, I have a few words for you, Chatfield, you are a
liar, a lowlife, and a coward. What goes around comes
around. Enjoy it alot when it smacks you in the face,
Buddy!

Sign me,
Glad to be off of the laughing stock of a Jeep Social
Club



--- SteelPonyCowboy@a... wrote:
> From: SteelPonyCowboy@a...
> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 12:08:53 EST
> Subject: Fwd: [az_vjc] RE: Hey guys
> To: cowboysjeepgirl@y...
>
>
>

> ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822
> From: "Mike Chatfield" <Mike@A...>
> To: <SteelPonyCowboy@a...>
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] RE: Hey guys
> Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 08:53:39 -0700
>
> No, as far as the AzVJC list is concerned YOU
> started this. While your Ex
> may have joined to "get to you" she only posted
> Off-Topic questions to the
> board. It was YOUR GF that spammed the whole list by
> *****ing her out in an
> email to the entire GROUP (Reply to All) instead of
> the INDIVIDUAL (Reply).
> And now your GF has taken to bashing new members
> because she *thinks* they
> might be your Ex simply because they are female. I
> guess she suffers from
> her own Psychosis (Paranoia). What next? Would she
> have started bashing new
> members (male or female) because they have "blue" in
> their e-mail address?
> This is why I am banning you and her; there is
> absolutely no excuse for this
> behavior.
>
> As for my not taking the time or responsibility to
> take her off the list
> after she joined multiple times, I banned about 2
> dozen e-mail addresses all
> based on your and your ex's word of mouth. Not a
> single one of these e-mail
> addresses were used to send provocative e-mail to
> the group. In fact the
> only e-mail address used to send offensive e-mail to
> the group was the
> first, and ONLY after your GF bashed her in front of
> the entire group. YOU
> should have NEVER involved the group in this little
> psychodrama love
> triangle BS. Expecting the AzVJC to change the way
> it runs its membership
> to accommodate your psychodrama is childish at best;
> grow up and learn to
> handle things like an adult. This includes not
> selfishly involving 2000
> other people in your little psychodrama, which we
> could all care less about.
>
> Just for clarification, NEVER means Not EVER. It
> does not mean "not *the
> majority* of the time." I sent my reply to "Hey
> Guys" to the list to let
> them know that I was indeed taking care of this
> matter, and so far I have
> received nothing but thanks from the group.
>
> I've already removed your membership from the
> database; so all trip event
> entries will also be removed.
>
> Mike Chatfield
> Caution: May contain opinions. Point away from
> brain, especially while
> reading
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SteelPonyCowboy@a...
> [mailto:SteelPonyCowboy@a...]
> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 8:21 AM
> To: Mike@A...
> Cc: SteelPonyCowboy@a...
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] RE: Hey guys
>
> You know what Mike, we didnt start this, she did.
> You didnt see the 200
> plus emails that we got from that ***** and you
> didnt see the emails she
> sent to Sandee and several others. You couldnt
> seem to take the time or
> the responsibility to take her off every time she
> joined up like you said
> you would and she continued with her BS. What you
> dont know is that I did
> not send this "Hey guys" to the group nor did I hit
> reply all on the
> majority of my emails. Just wanted to let you know
> that. She got what
> she wanted, she opened a new screen name last night
> and sent me a "ha ha ha'
> you got kicked out of the club not me. So be it,
> at least I wont rejoin
> using another name like she has so many times.
>
> If I can get into the web site I will remove myself
> and Carol from the trips
> we signed up for or you can do it for me.
>
> Mike Fissel
>


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/
--- End forwarded message ---


93801 From: jeepn_babe <jeepn_babe@y...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 6:46pm
Subject: Re: Please help me get me off of this club


Dear Mr Chatfield,
You publicly ridicule and accuse others of psychobabble when I think
you are doing the same yourself. This is hard as heck to read and
follow, but I tried. Then you bounce back and forth as to is it
Carol or Sharon that is the ex and owner of all the banned email
addresses? I heard from someone else here on the group that Sandee,
Dave, and others got the emails from this Sharon person too.

I saw the postings from Amber, and I also saw where there were a
couple other ladies and 3 gentlemen that asked Amber to quit. I
think it was a man that mentioned escort first. But don't take me
word, I am after all, a woman, you might want to take a look back for
yourself. Did you ban him too or chastise him publicly? I was
offended by that posting. Should I be banned too? I think that you
actually just enjoy humiliating and picking on women. Someone who
apparently asked for your help. You are very vandictive to women and
I am not going to just sit on this group and watch as you do so to
others.

I don't know Carol very well, although she came out with Mike to help
me and we talked briefly. She seemed very nice, not at all a
pathetic paranoid psychopath you claim her to be. You might want to
look at yourself for the qualities you mentioned.

Mr Chatfield, I really don't understand what your motives are here,
although I will say that you do not seem to be a mature person and
not too stable sounding here. Why are you now assuming that all
women are psychopaths in your email to me? I didn't deserve that. I
don't feel that women are welcomed or safe from you here.

To the members of this group, I am deeply sorry. I know you don't
appreciate long messages, but after Mr Chatfield publicly ridiculed
someone, who he said was already banned, is this really a person that
you all trust to fairly mantain your group, if it really is you alls
group? I really have my doubts at this point that it is.

By the way, thank you Mr Chatfield for the instructions on how to
remove myself and good luck. You really need it, or something.

Good bye and good luck to all,
Cindy


--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Chatfield" <Mike@A...> wrote:
> Send an e-mail to Az_VJC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> I guess you just want to make a statement about your friend Carol
being
> banned, if that is the case, may I suggest you and your friend
create a new
> group the Arizona Virtual Psychopaths Club.
>
> FIRST of all, I bent over backward to accommodate Mike and Carol,
even
> though it was Carol that PUBLICLY (Reply-To-All) attacked "Sharon"
or
> whatever Mike's Ex's name is (if there is a real "Ex"). As far as
I am now
> concerned, CAROL is the instigator in this whole fiasco. SHE
started this
> by attacking "babyblues" and at the time the only thing "babyblues"
was
> guilty of was posting Off-Topic (which there is a plethora of)
asking about
> housing. Carol then attacked "babyblues" publicly and introduced
us all,
> involuntarily I might add, to this psychodrama she is so proud of.
After
> all of this, I STILL sided with Mike and Carol and
banned "babyblues" and
> about 20 other e-mail addresses they sent me - on their word that
these
> e-mail addresses belonged to this "Sharon."
>
> Then a few weeks later, I'm given even more e-mail addresses they
claim is
> Carol. However instead of banning these, I just wait to see if
they are
> used to post messages (of any type) to the group, which, if these e-
mail
> addresses were used to post to the group, I never saw them. She
also
> "volunteers" to help moderate, which I ignored; I did not think it
wise to
> give Carol the power to moderate this group how she saw fit. This
group has
> existed for many years with a very loose moderating style including
several
> years before I took over and as far as I am concerned it will
continue to
> have a loose moderating style. I could have put it to a vote of the
> membership to see if they wanted to Organize and increase moderation
> activity including Jeep ownership and Arizona Residency
requirements, but
> based on past such discussions I knew what the outcome would be.
>
> Now fast forward to the past couple of days. A new member posts
asking to
> join along in any open seat on one of our runs; there is nothing
wrong with
> this and this has also happened in the past. I do not think ANYONE
except
> Carol thought that this was an "Escort" trying to drum up business
AND Carol
> only used this as an EXCUSE after she realize that Amber IS
NOT "Sharon."
> Flat out Carol ATTACKED a new member without ANY provocation on the
new
> member's part other than being a female whose post was very
REMOTELY similar
> to "babyblues."
>
> Next I'm getting e-mail in my box accusing me of "not doing
anything" to
> resolve the issue. I guess I'm either just supposed to ban
everyone that
> Carol says or give her the power to do it herself or I'm not "doing
> anything." That is Bulls-t! And it pisses me off to be accused of
something
> when I've done just about the exact opposite. Since it is
impossible for me
> to know 100% for sure that a new member is really "Sharon" and just
because
> "Carol says so" is NOT GOOD ENOUGH, AND since Carol has taken it
upon her
> self to PUBLICLY BASH new members simply because she thinks they
are Sharon,
> I decided to ban her. I also banned Mike, although, I've since
reconsidered
> this and lifted the ban on him, providing that if he does remain
the group,
> Carol is NOT to use his screen name to post to the group. After
all, the
> only thing he is guilty of is being Carol's boyfriend (or whatever).
>
> If you think that I've publicly put down Carol, then you have no
idea what I
> am capable of. The only thing I have done is post a couple of the
e-mails
> sent to me by Carol to the group to make them even more aware of
just the
> kind of person she REALLY is which just further justifies my
reasons for
> banning her.
>
> Now if anyone wants to see what a real eThrashing I can give out, I
will be
> more than happy to accommodate.
>
> Mike Chatfield
> Caution: May contain opinions. Point away from brain, especially
while
> reading


93802 From: Rollie kent <jeeprkl@h...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 7:07pm
Subject: cable


Does anyone have positive or negitive experiences with a nylon cable on
thier winch? I need to replace my cable and am thinking of nylon. THANKS

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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93803 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 7:10pm
Subject: Re: cable


If you're referring to plasma rope (Master Pull), I love mine. Very strong;
very, very light weight; very safe.

On the down side, can weaken if gotten too hot by too much winch breaking
(aka winching out); will fray against rocks if the rock sleeve isn't used.

I've used mine quite a bit, and love it. Wouldn't hesitate again from buying
it.

Doug

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rollie kent" <jeeprkl@h...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>; <jeeplist@egroups.com>;
<rlieberknecht@g...>
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 8:07 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] cable


> Does anyone have positive or negitive experiences with a nylon cable on
> thier winch? I need to replace my cable and am thinking of nylon. THANKS
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> Fretting that your Hotmail account may expire because you forgot to sign
in
> enough? Get Hotmail Extra Storage today!
> http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


93804 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 7:11pm
Subject: RE: cable


I do not think it is nylon and I am quite sure that is not what you
would want to use. It is a synthetic rope and there are several brands
on the market. I know people who use it and swear by it. I also know a
few who swear at it. I still have steel cable....at this point simply
because it is in good shape and I don't have the funds to spend on
something else at this point.

Stu


Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Rollie kent [mailto:jeeprkl@h...]
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 8:07 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; jeeplist@egroups.com;
rlieberknecht@g...
Subject: [az_vjc] cable

Does anyone have positive or negitive experiences with a nylon cable on

thier winch? I need to replace my cable and am thinking of nylon.
THANKS

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Fretting that your Hotmail account may expire because you forgot to sign
in
enough? Get Hotmail Extra Storage today!
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93805 From: <Hydrosense@a...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 2:11pm
Subject: (no subject)


im sorry to get in this but this is Rob B Y2K-XJ's wife Troi, i'd just like
to say if we wanted all this drama in our lives why dont we just all quit our
jobs and stay home and watch soap operas and jerry springer on tv. from what
i am reading this seems like something kids do in high school, bicker back and
forth to see who can get the most attention. why cant everyone just stop the
drama and start jeepin again.

Troi B wife of Rob B Y2K-XJ


93806 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 7:14pm
Subject: Away for a bit and see what happens!


Wow! leave the list for two days and BAM!! things get really heated.

All I have to say is keep it Jeep related!

You got something to say to someone say it to them. Please don't fill my
inbox with drama, name calling, or just plain old stupid stuff. Not only
does this stuff make the group look bad it proliferates and drives
people off (as you can see).

Last thing... this ain't the first time and I don't 'spek it to be the
last un either.


Joey K

93YJ






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


93807 From: Rio Harbour <rioshilo@c...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 8:16pm
Subject: Re: RE: I decided to keep quiet but since you want to keep this up I will say my piece


Mike

Just wanted to say that I am 100% behind you in this whole thing. I know
that you don't have a say in, or even try to manipulate the direction of the
club... but I appreciate all the work you put into the web site and email
list. Thanks for your efforts.

To whoever thinks this club is controlled by an inner circle..... WAKE
UP!!! The reason I like the AZVJC is because it is so loose and free. It
is just a virtual meeting place for any and all Jeepers to conveniently meet
and discuss all aspects of wheeling. No requirements, no stipulations. The
direction that this club takes is wherever the collective voices decide.
Everyone has a say in it. If you want something to happen speak up... and
if majority rules than so be it. This is a democracy.

Rio



----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chatfield" <Mike@A...>
To: <SteelPonyCowboy@a...>; <Az_VJC@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "'hydrosense,Desertstar22'" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 6:38 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] RE: I decided to keep quiet but since you want to keep
this up I will say my piece


>> I just saw what you posted on the VJC site. It was forward to me by a
member who disagreed with what you did to me and is even more upset by what
you just did.

Yep I sure did forward that e-mail to the club, because I was not the only
one attacked in that e-mail. Other members were attacked without even being
courtesy copied on it; heck the entire AzVJC was attacked.

>> He however wont say anything to you as we both know what you do to people
who piss you off. I have lost any respect for you that I ever had.

In all of the time I have been moderator of this group, you are the first I
have ever banned because of something like this. I bent over backward to
accommodate you and your current Girl-Friend Carol by banning numerous
e-mail addresses solely on your word that these e-mail addresses belonged to
“Sharon.” When you guys gave me additional e-mail addresses, I started
watching for these e-mail addresses to post to the group. I never saw a
single post from these new addresses. Instead what I did see was Carol
PUBLICLY attack a new member just because she THOUGHT they were “Sharon.”
She stepped WAY out of line, and then you had the audacity to insinuate that
I “didn’t do anything” that was it. The best way I could think of to remove
this psychodrama that YOU and CAROL introduced us to was to ban the both of
you. I have since reconsidered, and have lifted the ban on you, providing
that you want to be in the AzVJC AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, that Carol does not
use your account to post to the group.

Simply put, you have done nothing to deserve being banned. Whereas Carol has
publicly attacked new members of the AzVJC accusing them of being Sharon,
which I WILL NOT abide. She needs to get a grip on reality, and I seriously
think she needs to see a psychologist.

>> YOU talk about putting the OT stuff on VJC , kick me off the group when
I was trying to say this was enough and now you pull this **** with an email
that was directed to you personally. Shame on you, you are NO better than
anyone else on this group and now you show your true self, the Hypocrite
that you are. How dare you ban me from the group and then continue to
perpetuate the same **** for your own purposes.

I never said anything against people posting Off-Topic, there is a lot of it
and given the nature of the AzVJC membership. I posted to the group
membership for two reasons, first to let them know what was going on, and
indeed that I was “doing something about it” as I had been accused of not
doing to several unknown to me members of the AzVJC. The second reason I
posted is because the AzVJC itself was being attacked AND other members, to
whom the e-mail was NOT sent were also being attacked.


>> This action by you deserves the same treatment you gave me, banned from
the site. But is guess since there are no rules other than the ones that
you make and enforce selectively that is not going to happen.

Again, your ban has been lifted because I can see no wrong that you did.
HOWEVER, Carol’s ban remains in place because she has attacked new members
WITHOUT provocation – THAT is why she was banned, not because of “Off-Topic”
posts. Heck, if I banned everyone that posted off-topic, there wouldn’t be
anyone left except the lurkers.

>> In that case since we have no rules and you continue to perpetuate this
saga as you call it by your own email, what gives you the right to ban
anyone?

There never have been any rules that would get someone kicked off the
mailing list OTHER than sending SPAM and or Pornographic material to the
list. Congratulations, Carol may just be the inspiration for the very first
rule to the group. DON’T BASH NEW MEMBERS PUBLICLY, PERIOD.

>> Its too bad you don’t have the maturity to accept criticism but like to
dish it out when you are armed with less than the facts. The fact of the
matter is Mike, how many times did you take the time to go out to someone’s
home that wasn’t a member of the "good ole boys" ? Not one. I have gone
out of my way and taken time off of work to time and time again help someone
that asked for it. In the majority of those cases I was told that I was the
only one that offered to help. I helped out at clean ups, I helped out at
the Jambo, I donated over $100 towards Sharky and I never met the man. I
went to the BLM meetings. I wrote letters and emails to the BLM and
elected officials.

Very good, what makes you ASSUME that I have done none of these things? You
obviously have no clue, perhaps you should find a store and purchase one.

>> Tell me Mike where are you in this club and what do you contribute
other than to your own little circle of friends.

Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t realize I was supposed to quit my job so I could
help every single last person that asks for it on this board. Question, who
is going to pay my house payment and put food on my family’s table while I’m
off helping everyone that asks. I work in the IT industry and in case you
didn’t notice, there are not too many jobs for us out there right now, so I
do everything I can to make sure that I keep the job I’ve got even if that
means spending 60 hours a week at the office.

Of course I guess you assume that the code that runs the AzVJC just wrote
itself. You obviously have no clue how many hours I have dedicated to this
club, writing and maintaining code, answering member’s e-mail, dealing with
psychodramas… well there’s only been one of those. I’m sorry I didn’t
realize I was required to keep a timesheet so that I could justify my
existence in this club to the likes of YOU.

>> Tell me how many of the 2000 plus, oh wait the membership dropped under
2000 in the last couple of days, members have contributed as much as I have
in so little time or ever since they joined? And does it really matter how
much one contributes to the club that matters as much as belonging to that
perceived inner circle of members does. (no I am not paranoid there are
many members that talk about the perceived inner circle)

The perceived inner circle… do you really believe there is only one? You
must be blind then; there are many groups within the AzVJC. See people go
out wheeling with one another, find people they enjoy wheeling with, and
look for trips with those same people on them. Pretty soon there is a “club”
with-in the club, and within that mini-group the people of that group tend
to help each other out more than they do people outside of that group. I
think there is at least 6 such “groups” within the AzVJC that I know about,
and there’s probably 3 more I don’t know about for each group I do know
about. In fact, I bet that you already are in a little group yourself. Think
about it, are there people that you prefer to wheel with, is there a small
group of friend you made that you’re more willing to help out than “the new
guy?”

As for the actual numbers of the membership, it depends on how you count.
The AzVJC website has about 50% more members that the mailing list; it has
been this way for a long time.

>> The last email that I sent out to the club before you blocked me was
asking for the OT **** to stop and lets get back to Jeeps and what do you
do, ban me for that email.

I did not ban you for that e-mail. I originally banned you because like it
or not YOU are the root cause of this psychodrama. However, once again, I
have reviewed what has happened in the past and have found no fault with
your posts to the group only Carol’s. Like it or not, she publicly attacked
a new member without provocation, and it was not the first time either.
Although the first time *appeared* at that time to be justified; I have
since thought about this externally, and what she did then was attack a new
member that had done nothing to provoke her, other than joining. Think about
this, if it were a real public place where you and Carol are having lunch
and Sharon walks in and sits at a table near you. Then Carol walks over and
starts slapping her, who would the police put in jail for assault and
battery? Carol essentially did the “virtual” equivalent of just that.

>> Until you have rules you are not going to stop the BS and OT stuff
and now it seems from some of the emails that I have gotten that you have
club members who are afraid to say something that you might not like and get
the same treatment you gave me.

The OT and “BS” as you put it is not going away. Again this had nothing to
do with being Off-Topic, what it did have to do with is Carol’s public
behavior. If she had privately e-mailed Sharon then this probably would have
never happened.

And that is such BS that other are afraid I’m going to ban them too. Nobody
else has done anything, as far as I know, to deserve being banned.

>> No I am afraid Mike that this seems to no longer be a club but your own
personal dictatorship in the eyes of several "club" members, not just
myself. I have the emails to prove it but unlike you I wont share them
with anyone as vindictive as you.

Yes, I am the all-powerful Dictator of this club… Wait; didn’t you say that
“The Inner Circle” ran the club? So how do you know I’m just not the “point”
person of this inner circle? Really, I have much better things to do than to
find someone to Ban next. Like finish my proposal so that Upper Management
doesn’t decide to just do away with my entire department at work… Oh wait, I
’m not supposed to have a job, right, so I can go help every last person
that asks for it.

>> Look in the mirror Mike, reflect on what you have done and you will see
one thing, you are no different than anyone you have chastised in your
emails in this whole mess. Now go and forward this to the membership if
you have the balls or do you only want to pick on women.

Really? All I have done is try to keep the AzVJC membership apprised of what
is going on, so that IF THEY DO FIND FAULT WITH MY JUDGEMENT they may post
retribution to the club. If things are as you seem to think then any member
can start a poll to determine if I should remain “moderator.” If the
majority decides that then they better come up with a new webmaster, because
I will be done with this club as I have A LOT of other things I can spend my
time on. However, I think that the majority of the membership is satisfied
with my performance.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


93808 From: <Hydrosense@a...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 2:28pm
Subject: Y2K-XJ 3.5"LIFT DONE


Enough with that crap!!!!!! Well I got it done, all went well, learned a
lot and got a full 3.5" and a little hangover the next day LOL.. now I can run
3.0-4.0 trails with you bigger guys and youl see me on more runs!!!!! yea
finally......... gonna test the flex at the Hunter BBQ..


93809 From: fourxchef <fourbychef@c...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 7:38pm
Subject: White Tanks App/Firebird Thanks,,,,and PICS!!


Thanks for the run today guys/gals, Jonathan and I had a blast!!
http://www.members.cox.net/k-ton2/whitetanks2.html
See you out on the trails.


93810 From: Don <weasel_ugs@h...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 7:47pm
Subject: Re: I decided to keep quiet but since you want to keep this up I will say my piece


I think what Mike did was right and stand behind his decision.I dont
see any dictatorship on this board,what I see is if something needs
to be done someone(anyone) will speak up and get things rolling.Since
only the moderator can ban that would be mikes job.Don


--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Rio Harbour" <rioshilo@c...> wrote:
> Mike
>
> Just wanted to say that I am 100% behind you in this whole thing.
I know
> that you don't have a say in, or even try to manipulate the
direction of the
> club... but I appreciate all the work you put into the web site
and email
> list. Thanks for your efforts.
>
> To whoever thinks this club is controlled by an inner circle.....
WAKE
> UP!!! The reason I like the AZVJC is because it is so loose and
free. It
> is just a virtual meeting place for any and all Jeepers to
conveniently meet
> and discuss all aspects of wheeling. No requirements, no
stipulations. The
> direction that this club takes is wherever the collective voices
decide.
> Everyone has a say in it. If you want something to happen speak
up... and
> if majority rules than so be it. This is a democracy.
>
> Rio


93811 From: Mike Chatfield <Mike@A...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 8:00pm
Subject: RE: RE: Hey guys


>> YOU may consider this as you like. I do not take threats, so think
again. You, sir, are in dire need of the therapist. You are one strange
individual to suggest something that only someone with YOUR sick
mind could dream up. Perhaps you'd like to suggest that Sandee McCullen and
the others made up the emails they got from Sharon, too? Yeah, just your
style... I took the time to send those that I knew were getting
harrassed, an email, advising them of who they could contact whether it be
TOS, Abuse, etc, as I felt sorry for them. I KNEW what it felt like to get
bombarded by the wacko. That wouldn't have been a very smart
move on my part IF I was the originators of the emails, now would it, bright
boy?
Actually, I still think you may have imagined up this whole "Ex" thing to
get attention on the AzVJC. Advising other on who they could contact in
regards to TOS, abuse, etc... would only be a poor attempt at brilliance on
your part to hide that you and Sharon are the same person. Still I'm not
convinced either way, heck for all I know YOU could be an alter-personality
of Mike. In any case, even if I am truly dealing with a split personality,
it is only you, Carol, that have crossed the line by bashing new members of
the AzVJC, and thus earned the right to be the first person banned from the
AzVJC for inexcusable behavior. The only people I have had to ban in the
past were Spammers and some kid that thought it would be funny to post porn
to the group. Actually I didn't even ban that one, the other moderator we
have did that. Bet you didn't know there was another moderator, did you?
>> Hey, let's make it even, I consider your last email harrassment too.
Let's add to that slander after you sought to publicly humiliate me, AFTER I
told YOU that I was leaving this stupid, pathetic little coffee clutch.
Get your legal term right, it is not slander unless it spoken. What you
want is Libel. If you want to try that, that is fine. It'll be very hard to
prove considering I only sent the e-mail in which YOU bashed not only me,
but the entire AzVJC as well as other AzVJC members. I was only doing my
duty as moderator to inform the group THAT YOU BASHED what was being said
about it. If anyone has a Libel case, it is the AzVJC.
>> YOU allowed everyone and their brother/sister to join this group,
whether or not they have a Jeep or 4wd. I volunteered to help you, but I
can see that I was right in figuring out that you do like the feeling of
being the
only geek in power.
I'm sorry, I guess you weren't around each and every time that the idea of
"organizing" the AzVJC so we could really limit membership to Jeep Owners
Living In Arizona was shot down by the very membership that you chose to
abuse. As for putting YOU in a moderator position? PLEASE, you would have
banned every single person with Cow, Boy, Cute or Blue in his or her e-mail
address.
>> You could put ANY person, in as moderator to help, I could care less WHO.
I really didn't want to do it, but thought that it looked like you could use
the help, since you were so very busy. How very silly of me to volunteer to
help someone as paraniod as you. Hey, I might have been trying to take over
the world with becoming moderator of YOUR group, right? Give me a break!
As I've already told you we have another moderator. Also before YOU came
along insisting that I ban every e-mail address you wanted me to because you
think they belong to Sharon, I have had ZERO problems maintaining the
membership of this group. I have no problems sharing the responsibilities
of moderator with anyone the CLUB so chooses; I would not have added you as
a moderator even if you were the most sane person I know without the
approval of the membership. Beyond your little psychodrama, moderating this
group is not much of a challenge; the membership tends to take care of
policing itself quite nicely. And, I'm sure if I were doing such a poor job
of it, the membership would have requested either I step down from moderator
duties or another moderator be appointed or both.

>> This so called new member of the group was also "attacted" as you call
it, by others, and I got several emails from the members of YOUR group
thanking me for having the guts to stand up and say something.
Whatever, you only purported that she was an Escort looking for tricks when
you realized that she wasn't Sharon. A new member that happens to be single
looking for an open seat on a Jeep run is NOT off-topic, NOR does it sound
like an Escort trying to drum up business. There have been instances in the
past where something similar has occurred, and guess what, the person not
only wasn't an escort, they also actually showed up for a run and went along
in someone's empty seat. You should feel like a complete *** for accusing
her of being something she isn't. I bet you haven't even apologized.
According to Amber, and I am MUCH more inclined to believe her over you she
is a waitress at a Streets of New York. And in case you've never been to one
that is a Pizza place, not an Escort service. (I realize with your decadent
mind you could associate "Street" with "hooker" after all you found "Escort"
from "Skin.")

>> I got a brand new one just today. I would be more than happy to share
them with you, if you like. Just because you and your buddy, Joe West,
think that women can stay on here as long as they are quiet little
things, that is very chavanistic and shows extreme insecurities.
Whatever, I could care less. I imagine you and Mike have your own circle of
friends within the AzVJC, and I'm sure that they are taking your side in all
of this. However I think if they take a step back and look at how things
were posted to the group, particularly the order in which posts were made,
they would quickly realize, just as I have, that YOU are the one that has
publicly instigated every negative thread regarding this matter.
>> This is advertised as a JEEP club, is it not? If I had any idea that you
allowed this kind of behavior where escorts could advertise their business,
or people the likes of Sharon Smith lay waiting for new
prey, I NEVER would have even considered joining. I, like many of the other
women and even some of the men were appalled and embarrassed by the first
posting of your precious new member, Amber or "skin" as she
called herself, but it was let slide, then the second.
Yes it is a Jeep club and believe it or not people find time to actually
work on their Jeeps and go 'wheeling when they aren't reading the latest
psychodrama on the AzVJC message board. The bottom line is this is and
always has been an OPEN forum where the "membership" requirements are not
enforced. And with good reason, some of the more stellar members (such as
John Kanicsar, Hunter Offroad) do not own a 4x4 vehicle with the word "Jeep"
on the side of it. But guess what? The majority of us DON'T CARE!
And there you go again accusing Amber of being something that you have no
idea if she really is or not. Trying to base a person's profession on their
e-mail address is laughable at best. So how much do you make an hour being
a Coyboy's Jeep Girl anyhow and just what are the Job requirements of that
Job?
>> Give me a break, Mike, when do you moderate this thing? According to
your own rules this Club has no rules, but it has one dictator who decides
what is right and wrong here? Are you nuts? Wait, I already
know the answer to that. IF you have no rules, what gives YOU the right to
decide who gets kicked off here.
No, you give me a break. This club doesn't have any rules, but that doesn't
mean rude behavior is not grounds for being banned. What you did is just
plain rude, period.
>> Mike Fissel also recieved several emails thanking him for standing up and
trying to get this stuff stopped and back on topic. Do you want those too??
If he really wanted to get this back on topic he should have asked you not
to send your accusing e-mails to the entire group instead of trying to put
out the fire that he stood by and watched you create.
>> Mike Fissel has on a number of times went out to help people who asked
for help. He did it because he likes Jeeps and he enjoyed talking to the
people, and all he asked in return was a thank you. I know,
because I have been with him many of these times. I bet you are like most
of the average members here and you read about it, but do absolutely
nothing. I don't think you even read half of the emails from this
group. How could you, because you have so many various groups that again,
you are the sole moderator. Hmmm, back to those power issues again.
What makes you assume that I've never helped someone in the wheeling
community out before? Do yourself a favor, go to Wal-Mart and see if they
sell clues there. You're right I don't read half the e-mails of this group;
I read probably close to 25%. I do read every single subject line though,
subjects that I have an interest in I open. Once again that is because the
group tends to take care of itself. I only get involved when I HAVE to; if
someone posts something derogatory and inappropriate in a thread someone
will generally bring it to my attention.
>> I went to the Sharky Run, Mike, did you? No, don't bother answering, I
know that answer too. Between Mike and I, we donated over $100 to this fund
raiser. I took several pictures and decided to share them with
the group. My second mistake after joining your group.
I was there, several people saw me there. Stick to things you KNOW. And
BTW, you don't KNOW as much as you think you do.
And I'm not getting why you think it was a mistake sharing pictures with the
group...
>> Then this woman, I have never met, Sharon Smith, bombards me with emails.
Bombards as in 145 in less than 1 hour. I have never heard of her, never
met her, and was quite shocked at this. How dare you
suggest that I make something like that up? I guess that truly shows your
mentality, but then, I am not surprised. I'd be more than happy to share
all 300 some emails with you and give you Sharon's phone
number, as she has been anxious for me to call HER. Freakin wacko.....
Hey, she sounds like your type.
Right, you never heard of her, yet she's your BF's Ex? Give me a break and
at least TRY to keep your fairytale accurate. Even if this person is real
(I still haven't decided if she's just an alternate personality of yours or
Mike's or both, or if she is indeed a real person), THIS IS YOUR PROBLEM.
Not the AzVJC's, If you had a problem with her signing up with the AzVJC you
should have dealt with her PRIVATELY, not spam the whole group with your
psychodrama. As far as the messages that were posted to the group, NONE of
them could be construed as threatening in any way toward you; her e-mails
only became derogatory AFTER you instigated.
>> I can only hope that you meet someone in your life that bugs the heck
out of you or someone in your family, the way this broad has me.
I have, and I married her. (J/K Anita )
Frankly the only person that "bugs the heck" out of me recently is you.
>> I have only blocked 25 different email accounts from AOL, Yahoo, and
Hotmail now. No sweat off your brow, right?
I'm sorry, I didn't realize by being the AzVJC moderator that I have secret
powers within AOL, Yahoo and Hotmail. *** did you want me to do? I have
just as much "pull" with these corporations as you or any other Joe Shmo,
off the street.
>> Mike and I were also paid members at the Jamboree and donated more money
in the raffle too. Did you go? No, no need to answer, I know.
I've gone just about every year since I've been out of the military. This
year I was busting *** at the office doing my best to make sure I have a job
to go to tomorrow. I'm sorry, but providing for my family is MUCH more
important than attending the Jamboree, which even though the last two years
I've blown my front end at I thoroughly enjoy. I assure you I would much
rather have gone to the Jamboree. BTW, why do you make it seem like such a
chore to go to? If it is that much of a hassle then you just must not enjoy
4 wheeling, I suggest you find a new hobby... maybe the theater as drama
seems to suit you just fine.

>> Mike and I went to the last BLM meeting. Tell me something, did you go
Mike? Nope, didn't think so.
Funny I've gone to many meetings and not seen YOU there. Not everyone is
able to attend every meeting. This past year has been a very busy one, I
haven't even taken time to fix my own Jeep.
>> Not to mention the numerous trails we have done. Remind me again, what
have you done???
You think you know everything don't you. You must really think that I have
never wheeled a trail before in my life. Well guess what your WRONG on this
too.
>> Bottom line, you were WRONG in doing what you did, after I informed you
that I was leaving because you couldn't or wouldn't help manage the problem.
Yes, my
problem, but the wacko contacted me through YOUR club and laughed when you
threw her off and then she was back on in a matter of minutes.
You are the one that is WRONG; you have publicly attacked without
provocation multiple members. I have acted in accordance with what I feel
is best, and that is to remove you. You drug the AzVJC into your problem,
and that was also WRONG. I cooperated with you at first, but I was NOT
about to go banning every e-mail address you sent me just because "you said
so." As far as I am concerned you instigated every derogatory thread in
this matter, and since you are the instigator, you are the one that must go.
As for the whole I "threw her off and then she was back on in a matter of
minutes" What would you have liked me to do, spend 24/7 watching and
waiting for new members to show up so I could see if they matched the
"profile" you gave me. I mean really, do you think that she is the only one
that's used the words cow blue or cute in their e-mail address? No I guess
you wanted me to make the membership moderator approved, but guess what, I'm
not going to do that unless the membership deems it necessary. And I'm
certainly not going to change it to accommodate YOUR psychodrama.
>> I voluntarily left your coffee club and I will never, ever consider
coming back.
GOOD. And Good Riddance!
>> I am advising the people that contact me that they might want to look
elsewhere and have shared your emails with them, too.
Whatever, I hope they get to take a look at everything that has transpired
and not just take your word for it though, because I wouldn't give you 1
penny based on your word.
>> Thanks for your reply but don't bother replying further. You said your
piece and threats mean nothing to me. Harrassment, just so you know, Mike
is when one party keeps trying to contact the other. I am
replying to you and thus it is not harrassment. Any court in the land will
tell you the same, so don't try the big bad wolf thing with me. I'm not
impressed.
Don't worry I know enough about the law to just record your attempts to
contact me for now. Don't bother replying to this, I've already setup a
filter that just tosses your e-mails to me into a special folder can you
guess what the name is?
>> Move on and get back to YOUR joke of a club amongst the Jeep community.
My stickers and t-shirt from this sad group are in the trash, where they
belong. NEVER do I want anyone to mistakenly think that I belong to
YOUR group again.
Sorry it's not my "Joke" of a club. The club owns itself, which is
something you never seemed to have understood. I'm glad you threw your
stickers in the trash, I'd hate to have someone meet you and think that you
are they typical AzVJCer. Heck, they'd think are a bunch of psychopaths. I
mean some of us may be psychotic, crazy enough even to rub a brand new paint
job up against a rock, but I don't think ANY of us are as crazy as you
appear to be.
"...that's all I have to say about that." - Forrest Gump.
And just for the club: If you've made it this far with me, I apologize.
This will be the last e-mail I send to the group on this subject, I have set
up spam filters to toss any future e-mail from Carol into a special little
folder, which I will ignore unless I need it. I just wanted to make sure
that everyone that was paying attention to this drama gets the whole story,
not just the parts Carol wanted them to see. As I've already discovered
there are many, many people supporting me, and a few that may have "been on
the fence" that are now supporting me as well.
Thanks, and now back to your regular schedule of non-offensive off-topic,
technical and otherwise Jeep related posts,
- Mike

--- Mike Chatfield <Mike@A...> wrote:
> First. YOU are the one who attacked a new member of
> this club. Your
> relationship with said person has NOTHING to do with
> their eligibility for
> membership.
>
> I could care less what kind of problem you have with
> this person privately -
> that is your business; however YOU made it MY
> business by using Reply-To-All
> to call her out in front of the group.
>
> I cooperated with you at first, I banned every
> single address you sent me.
> Then you sent me more, and asked to be made a
> moderator. RIGHT, I'm going to
> put a Paranoid individual such as your-self in
> charge of membership. Give me
> a break.
>
> Next you attack a new member of this group and
> accuse a long-standing member
> of being some shady ex-con connected to your
> contrived little psychodrama.
> YOU overstepped your bounds and have been banned
> because of it.
>
> Personally I think YOU are the one with issues, and
> I wouldn't put it past
> you to have completely made up this "Ex" created
> e-mail accounts for this
> imaginary EX and then posted to the group just so
> you could call the
> imaginary person out and create havoc and draw
> attention to yourself. Seek
> a therapist because even if you didn't make up the
> whole thing, you have
> some serious psychological issues to deal with
> yourself.
>
> As for the AzVJC, I didn't create it, it created
> itself; that's the way it
> is and expecting it to change to accommodate your
> little psychotic behavior
> is asinine. It existed before I joined it, it
> existed before you joined it,
> and will exist long after you and long after me.
>
> Do not contact me again on this matter; I will
> consider any further contact,
> either via phone, fax, mail, e-mail, instant
> message, in-person or any other
> means of communications harassment and will bring
> legal action against you.
>
> - Mike Chatfield
>
>
>
>


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
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93812 From: David Cole <lists@o...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 7:59pm
Subject: rubber grommets


Who sells 3/8" rubber grommets? Need to fill a hole in the body sheet metal.

David


93813 From: Mike Chatfield <Mike@A...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 8:03pm
Subject: Moderator...


Just to be clear, I am not the only moderator of the group. In fact the
other moderator of this group has the ability to remove me from moderator
duties as HE is the list OWNER...

So if anyone feels that I need to be removed, add a poll, get the membership
to vote, and then the list owner can remove me if that is the decision of
the membership....

Mike Chatfield
Caution: May contain opinions. Point away from brain, especially while
reading


-----Original Message-----
From: Don [mailto:weasel_ugs@h...]
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 8:47 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: I decided to keep quiet but since you want to keep
this up I will say my piece

I think what Mike did was right and stand behind his decision.I dont
see any dictatorship on this board,what I see is if something needs
to be done someone(anyone) will speak up and get things rolling.Since
only the moderator can ban that would be mikes job.Don


93814 From: Leonard K. Pennock <leonardpennock@c...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 8:11pm
Subject: FS: XJ/ZJ parts


Been doing some changes to the XJ so I now have some parts for sale.

All are Rusty Offroad parts

Heavy Duty adjustable Trac-Bar and Frame mount (XJ, ZJ). $125
Engine/Transmission Skid Plate (XJ Only) $150.
Fixed lower control arms. Later style with OEM style bushings. (XJ,
ZJ) $60

Also posted to cherokee area of classified section.

--
Leonard K. Pennock
KA7OCK

Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure,
find that they very rarely lose or fail.


93815 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 8:38pm
Subject: Re: rubber grommets


Try Home Depot or Lowes

On Sunday, November 2, 2003, at 08:59 PM, David Cole wrote:

> Who sells 3/8" rubber grommets? Need to fill a hole in the body sheet
> metal.
>
> David
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


93816 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 8:43pm
Subject: Re: Please help me get me off of this club


Yay Mike! Can I be in your Inner Circle too so I can be part of the
plot to take over the world or was it just Table Mesa, or table 2 at
the local TGIFridays, or was it that you just wanted to take over the
day Friday? I'm kinda partial to Wednesday myself. I get so confused by
domination plots.

:-)

Chris

On Sunday, November 2, 2003, at 06:37 PM, Mike Chatfield wrote:

> Send an e-mail to Az_VJC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com.
>
> I guess you just want to make a statement about your friend Carol being
> banned, if that is the case, may I suggest you and your friend create
> a new
> group the Arizona Virtual Psychopaths Club.
>
> FIRST of all, I bent over backward to accommodate Mike and Carol, even
> though it was Carol that PUBLICLY (Reply-To-All) attacked "Sharon" or
> whatever Mike's Ex's name is (if there is a real "Ex"). As far as I
> am now
> concerned, CAROL is the instigator in this whole fiasco. SHE started
> this
> by attacking "babyblues" and at the time the only thing "babyblues" was
> guilty of was posting Off-Topic (which there is a plethora of) asking
> about
> housing. Carol then attacked "babyblues" publicly and introduced us
> all,
> involuntarily I might add, to this psychodrama she is so proud of.
> After
> all of this, I STILL sided with Mike and Carol and banned "babyblues"
> and
> about 20 other e-mail addresses they sent me - on their word that these
> e-mail addresses belonged to this "Sharon."
>
> Then a few weeks later, I'm given even more e-mail addresses they
> claim is
> Carol. However instead of banning these, I just wait to see if they
> are
> used to post messages (of any type) to the group, which, if these
> e-mail
> addresses were used to post to the group, I never saw them. She also
> "volunteers" to help moderate, which I ignored; I did not think it
> wise to
> give Carol the power to moderate this group how she saw fit. This
> group has
> existed for many years with a very loose moderating style including
> several
> years before I took over and as far as I am concerned it will continue
> to
> have a loose moderating style. I could have put it to a vote of the
> membership to see if they wanted to Organize and increase moderation
> activity including Jeep ownership and Arizona Residency requirements,
> but
> based on past such discussions I knew what the outcome would be.
>
> Now fast forward to the past couple of days. A new member posts
> asking to
> join along in any open seat on one of our runs; there is nothing wrong
> with
> this and this has also happened in the past. I do not think ANYONE
> except
> Carol thought that this was an "Escort" trying to drum up business AND
> Carol
> only used this as an EXCUSE after she realize that Amber IS NOT
> "Sharon."
> Flat out Carol ATTACKED a new member without ANY provocation on the new
> member's part other than being a female whose post was very REMOTELY
> similar
> to "babyblues."
>
> Next I'm getting e-mail in my box accusing me of "not doing anything"
> to
> resolve the issue. I guess I'm either just supposed to ban everyone
> that
> Carol says or give her the power to do it herself or I'm not "doing
> anything." That is Bulls-t! And it pisses me off to be accused of
> something
> when I've done just about the exact opposite. Since it is impossible
> for me
> to know 100% for sure that a new member is really "Sharon" and just
> because
> "Carol says so" is NOT GOOD ENOUGH, AND since Carol has taken it upon
> her
> self to PUBLICLY BASH new members simply because she thinks they are
> Sharon,
> I decided to ban her. I also banned Mike, although, I've since
> reconsidered
> this and lifted the ban on him, providing that if he does remain the
> group,
> Carol is NOT to use his screen name to post to the group. After all,
> the
> only thing he is guilty of is being Carol's boyfriend (or whatever).
>
> If you think that I've publicly put down Carol, then you have no idea
> what I
> am capable of. The only thing I have done is post a couple of the
> e-mails
> sent to me by Carol to the group to make them even more aware of just
> the
> kind of person she REALLY is which just further justifies my reasons
> for
> banning her.
>
> Now if anyone wants to see what a real eThrashing I can give out, I
> will be
> more than happy to accommodate.
>
> Mike Chatfield
> Caution: May contain opinions. Point away from brain, especially while
> reading
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jeepn_babe [mailto:jeepn_babe@y...]
> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 5:53 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Please help me get me off of this club
>
> I am sorry , but will someone please tell me how to get off of this
> club before I am subject to the humiliation too? My Red shirt is now
> sitting in the rag bag where I will use it to wax my car the next
> time.
>
> Thanks,
> Cindy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jeepn_babe [mailto:jeepn_babe@y...]
> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 5:53 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Please help me get me off of this club
>
> What are you looking for an attaboy, Mike Chatfield?
>
> Well, I for one, think you did this group a big injustice. Both of
> these people were constant volunteers. More than most on this
> particular group can say. I know that Mike Fissel has volunteered
> and helped people like Rob, Jim, John, Mookie, and myself when asked
> and I'm sure there were others. I offered to pay him, but he
> wouldn't take a dime and in fact brought supplies like gear oil in
> which he showed me how to refill myself.
>
> If it makes you feel like a big man, so be it. I have to agree with
> her on some points. She's long winded, but I see by the postings
> that you are too. I for one, am sorry that they are gone and I
> didn't appreciate the escort girl either.
>
> I think on thinking further on this and how you seem to like to
> humiliate people, Mr Chatfield, I think I will take off my membership
> too and go elsewhere to a Jeep club that encourages single women like
> myself to stay. I don't feel that we are seen as equals on
> this "Good Ole Boy's Club." Sorry If any of you on here know of a
> serious Jeep club that I can join, please send me an email off line,
> because as soon as I hit the send button, I am gone. I don't really
> feel the need to go through the humiliation that Mr Chatfield seems
> to enjoy subjecting people to here.
>
> My 2 cents,
> Cindy Davis
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


93817 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 9:03pm
Subject: Re: Moderator...


You're doing a great job, Mike....and I think you've shown great
restraint....more than I would have.

If we can keep the VJC Jeep related, it'll continue to be a great group.
Degeneration into all this off topic stuff and drama just sucks, IMO.

Doug

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chatfield" <Mike@A...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 9:03 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Moderator...


> Just to be clear, I am not the only moderator of the group. In fact the
> other moderator of this group has the ability to remove me from moderator
> duties as HE is the list OWNER...
>
> So if anyone feels that I need to be removed, add a poll, get the
membership
> to vote, and then the list owner can remove me if that is the decision of
> the membership....
>
> Mike Chatfield
> Caution: May contain opinions. Point away from brain, especially while
> reading
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don [mailto:weasel_ugs@h...]
> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 8:47 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: I decided to keep quiet but since you want to keep
> this up I will say my piece
>
> I think what Mike did was right and stand behind his decision.I dont
> see any dictatorship on this board,what I see is if something needs
> to be done someone(anyone) will speak up and get things rolling.Since
> only the moderator can ban that would be mikes job.Don
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


93818 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 9:04pm
Subject: Re: Away for a bit and see what happens!


Amen!

----- Original Message -----
From: "DesertJeep" <joey@d...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 8:14 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Away for a bit and see what happens!


> Wow! leave the list for two days and BAM!! things get really heated.
>
> All I have to say is keep it Jeep related!
>
> You got something to say to someone say it to them. Please don't fill my
> inbox with drama, name calling, or just plain old stupid stuff. Not only
> does this stuff make the group look bad it proliferates and drives
> people off (as you can see).
>
> Last thing... this ain't the first time and I don't 'spek it to be the
> last un either.
>
>
> Joey K
>
> 93YJ
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>