80737-80761

80737 From: <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 11:28am
Subject: RE: Draft a Welcome Letter.


Judy, first of all, you need to fully understand what I wrote back, I agreed
with Sandee

"bad choice of words sorry (for me), land use issues are not SPAM. "I bow my
head and mean no disrespect"

I just felt that you should be able to join the club with out having to
recieve manitory emails. I dont disagree with the intentions of the emails
just the fact your forced to take emails to join. I thought the only
requirement to join was to have a jeep. And yes I agree that without the
land we wouldnt be able to enjoy our sport. But just because I disagree with
something doesnt mean I aint going to accept the rules. I dont agree with
some state laws but I abide by them. .05

Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice480)346-6249
Fax480)346-6813



-----Original Message-----
From: Judy RAYA [mailto:jhraya@m...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 12:02 PM
To: AzVJC; jeff.trujillo@m...
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.


First of all Sandee Wrote:

The land use info is NOT spam
and the sooner ALL OHV recreationists accept this the sooner we can start
WINNING some of the battles.

That says NOT SPAM!

Second of all these Land Use Issues have to do with the activity we are all
involved in rather, you pay dues ,not pay dues, Organized, not Organized,
Whatever.. Im sick and tired of all the complaining and nobody wanting to
step up to the plate and do anything about it expect whine about it and NO
Im not talking about ALL the AZVJC members.
If you don't care if you get the e-mails one way or another why are you
making such an issue of it? If one Land use e-mail educates one person, and
gets one more letter or e-mail written and it keeps another Trail from being
closed then whats the harm. Lets not forget we can all use the Delete Key
which is probably being used more than it use to around here..
If anybody is that adamant about not receiving Land Use Issue E-mails,
that they can delete without reading, then they don't belong in an organized
or unorganized group, as far as I'm concerned.

" If you think keeping your rights is a hard thing, try getting them back
after their lost"

Judy Raya
TRR- Secretary



----- Original Message -----
From: < jeff.trujillo@m...
<mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...> >
To: < az_vjc@yahoogroups.com <mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:14 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.


> Sandee, bad choice of words sorry, land use issues are not SPAM. "I bow my
> head and mean no disrespect" ) I just feel that just because someone
> doesnt want to recieve certain emails they cant join is BS. I'm all for
the
> intitial letter to inform them that they must "accept" before they get
> accepted to the club. I have been to many cleanups and will continue to do
> so and also write letters for land use issues. That is not what AZVJC is
all
> about. How about when you sign up for the emails, how we do it now, that
> there can be an added block "recieve land use issue emails". Like I said
> before, I will choose to recieve them but to force them on everyone in
order
> for them to join is not good.
>
>
> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> Field Service Representative
> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> jeff.trujillo@m... <mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...>
> Voice480)346-6249
> Fax480)346-6813
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sandee McCullen [mailto:mccullen@c...]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:50 AM
> To: jeff.trujillo@m...
<mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...> ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> Maybe the "words" could re=read.................. "if they don't want the
> land-use info, they can "hit the delete key". The land use info is NOT
spam
> and the sooner ALL OHV recreationists accept this the sooner we can start
> WINNING some of the battles. As it stands right now we've LOST the
> Jawbreaker Appeal .................. that's most likely just the
"beginning
> to the end" unless EVERYONE gets involved. Enough of my bandwagon but
12-15
> members getting involved is not enough. I applaud Mike for his stand and
> very much appreciate the help!!!!
>
> Sandee
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jeff.trujillo@m...
<mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...>
> > [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 9:57 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com <mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> >
> >
> > Mike, I think thats a little harsh "If they don't want the
> > land-use info, then they can leave." It would be different if we were
all
> > paying dues or something. But were not, so to tell them they have
> > to receive
> > land use emails is like telling them they have to receive spam.
> > I'm all for
> > receiving them but I am also thinking of others that may not feel the
same
> > way. As we all appreciate what you are doing I just feel (in my
> > own opinion)
> > that we (AZVJC) should not force certain emails on any of the members.
> > "flamesuit on" I think we should have a poll to find out what the
members
> > feel. Thanks for reading my .05
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: intertwingled [mailto:intertwingled@q...]
> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:24 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com <mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> >
> >
> > >Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:58:22 -0700
> > >To: < Mike@a... <mailto:Mike@a...> >
> > >From: intertwingled < intertwingled@q...
<mailto:intertwingled@q...> >
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> > >In-Reply-To: < 200303170907.AA1507532@a...
<mailto:200303170907.AA1507532@a...> >
> > >
> > >
> > >No, I don't want to leave. I just thought that the only requirement
> > >to be a member of AZVJC was to sign up on the Yahoo Groups mailing
list.
> > >I will sign up on the web site post-haste. =)
> > >
> > >Tony
> > >
> >
> > And also, just to clarify, I want to ask again what the requirements
> > are and or will be to be a "member" of azvjc? I do consider myself
> > a member.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > >At 09:07 AM 3/17/03 -0700, you wrote:
> > >>Currently the website will allow you to join without requiring you to
be
> > a member of the mailing list. And it does not verify the e-mail
> > address so
> > a "new" member could put Nobody@H... <mailto:Nobody@H...> and
the website will accept
that.
> > >>
> > >>The new website will require a valid e-mail address so that we can
send
> > out land-use information to everyone in the club. If they don't want
the
> > land-use info, then they can leave.
> > >>
> > >>- Mike
> > >>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> > >>From: "intertwingled" < intertwingled@q...
<mailto:intertwingled@q...> >
> > >>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:32:28 -0700
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>I thought the only requirement to be a member of the club was
> > >>>to sign up on the yahoo mailing list? Doesn't that already
> > >>>require a valid email address? Are we changing lists, or what?
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> > --
> > even the safest course is fraught with peril
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----------
> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
> > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
> > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
> > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> > error, please
> > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error,
please
> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
>



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


ADVERTISEMENT




80738 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 11:41am
Subject: RE: Draft a Welcome Letter.


Jeff,
My comments were NOT directed at any of you that ALWAYS jump to the front in
support of any land use issue that comes up. I'm talking about the OTHER
2000 + that only want to "play"....... NONE of us will be "playing" in the
future if we don't ALL step up to the plate........... most of you didn't
know anything was going on a year ago. It took pounding you with emails and
information before anyone took the "hint"......... AZVJC have been GREAT in
recognizing the need to become involved, not only with land use access
issues, but with community image as well. I will support Mike all the way
in demanding everyone "gets involved"...... if they don't know the issues
they don't get involved!!!

Remember the "war" about State Land Permits not many months ago????? Once
the information was out and EVERYONE finally understood the "rules" (don't
have to like them)............ the compliance has quadrupled!!!

I've asked John Stewart to stop the emails to the AZVJC regarding ALL the
land issues across the country. I receive these and do actually read ALL of
them........ if I feel something is of interest to us or there's something
we can actually help with I send it out. I don't believe Mike is saying
AZVJC receives ALL land issue email that hits the waves....... just things
that are important to US.......... OUR access should be important to
everyone. The amount of "land use" mail shouldn't be any more than is
already going across.

Sandee

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jeff.trujillo@m...
> [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:15 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> Sandee, bad choice of words sorry, land use issues are not SPAM. "I bow my
> head and mean no disrespect" ) I just feel that just because someone
> doesnt want to recieve certain emails they cant join is BS. I'm
> all for the
> intitial letter to inform them that they must "accept" before they get
> accepted to the club. I have been to many cleanups and will continue to do
> so and also write letters for land use issues. That is not what
> AZVJC is all
> about. How about when you sign up for the emails, how we do it now, that
> there can be an added block "recieve land use issue emails". Like I said
> before, I will choose to recieve them but to force them on
> everyone in order
> for them to join is not good.
>
>
> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> Field Service Representative
> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> jeff.trujillo@m...
> Voice480)346-6249
> Fax480)346-6813
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sandee McCullen [mailto:mccullen@c...]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:50 AM
> To: jeff.trujillo@m...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> Maybe the "words" could re=read.................. "if they don't want the
> land-use info, they can "hit the delete key". The land use info
> is NOT spam
> and the sooner ALL OHV recreationists accept this the sooner we can start
> WINNING some of the battles. As it stands right now we've LOST the
> Jawbreaker Appeal .................. that's most likely just the
> "beginning
> to the end" unless EVERYONE gets involved. Enough of my
> bandwagon but 12-15
> members getting involved is not enough. I applaud Mike for his stand and
> very much appreciate the help!!!!
>
> Sandee
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jeff.trujillo@m...
> > [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 9:57 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> >
> >
> > Mike, I think thats a little harsh "If they don't want the
> > land-use info, then they can leave." It would be different if
> we were all
> > paying dues or something. But were not, so to tell them they have
> > to receive
> > land use emails is like telling them they have to receive spam.
> > I'm all for
> > receiving them but I am also thinking of others that may not
> feel the same
> > way. As we all appreciate what you are doing I just feel (in my
> > own opinion)
> > that we (AZVJC) should not force certain emails on any of the members.
> > "flamesuit on" I think we should have a poll to find out what
> the members
> > feel. Thanks for reading my .05
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: intertwingled [mailto:intertwingled@q...]
> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:24 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> >
> >
> > >Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:58:22 -0700
> > >To: <Mike@a...>
> > >From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> > >In-Reply-To: <200303170907.AA1507532@a...>
> > >
> > >
> > >No, I don't want to leave. I just thought that the only requirement
> > >to be a member of AZVJC was to sign up on the Yahoo Groups
> mailing list.
> > >I will sign up on the web site post-haste. =)
> > >
> > >Tony
> > >
> >
> > And also, just to clarify, I want to ask again what the requirements
> > are and or will be to be a "member" of azvjc? I do consider myself
> > a member.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > >At 09:07 AM 3/17/03 -0700, you wrote:
> > >>Currently the website will allow you to join without
> requiring you to be
> > a member of the mailing list. And it does not verify the e-mail
> > address so
> > a "new" member could put Nobody@H... and the website will
> accept that.
> > >>
> > >>The new website will require a valid e-mail address so that
> we can send
> > out land-use information to everyone in the club. If they
> don't want the
> > land-use info, then they can leave.
> > >>
> > >>- Mike
> > >>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> > >>From: "intertwingled" <intertwingled@q...>
> > >>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:32:28 -0700
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>I thought the only requirement to be a member of the club was
> > >>>to sign up on the yahoo mailing list? Doesn't that already
> > >>>require a valid email address? Are we changing lists, or what?
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> > --
> > even the safest course is fraught with peril
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> error, please
> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


80739 From: Joe Kearney <Joe-CJ7@j...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 11:53am
Subject: RE: Draft a Welcome Letter.


Jeff, Well said.

I think instead of sending out emails with lands use issue each member
should be able to go to the web site (I would be willing to host it and
maintain it)and have ALL information there like email address and issues and
meeting times and locations. I do not think individual emails will help.
The people that are interested can go to a seperate web site and get the
information. You are correct in hitting the delete button is something we
all know how to do.

Like Jeff said even though I may not agree with the emails being sent out
does not mean I will not accept them.

I think land use issue are VERY important to us and a whole and we all need
to be involved or the vehicles that we put so much money into will be great
for driving over speed bumbs.

Thanks for your input Judy.

Joe Kearney
Joe-CJ7@J...

-----Original Message-----
From: jeff.trujillo@m...
[mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 12:29 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.


Judy, first of all, you need to fully understand what I wrote back, I agreed
with Sandee

"bad choice of words sorry (for me), land use issues are not SPAM. "I bow my
head and mean no disrespect"

I just felt that you should be able to join the club with out having to
recieve manitory emails. I dont disagree with the intentions of the emails
just the fact your forced to take emails to join. I thought the only
requirement to join was to have a jeep. And yes I agree that without the
land we wouldnt be able to enjoy our sport. But just because I disagree with
something doesnt mean I aint going to accept the rules. I dont agree with
some state laws but I abide by them. .05

Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice480)346-6249
Fax480)346-6813



-----Original Message-----
From: Judy RAYA [mailto:jhraya@m...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 12:02 PM
To: AzVJC; jeff.trujillo@m...
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.


First of all Sandee Wrote:

The land use info is NOT spam
and the sooner ALL OHV recreationists accept this the sooner we can start
WINNING some of the battles.

That says NOT SPAM!

Second of all these Land Use Issues have to do with the activity we are all
involved in rather, you pay dues ,not pay dues, Organized, not Organized,
Whatever.. Im sick and tired of all the complaining and nobody wanting to
step up to the plate and do anything about it expect whine about it and NO
Im not talking about ALL the AZVJC members.
If you don't care if you get the e-mails one way or another why are you
making such an issue of it? If one Land use e-mail educates one person, and
gets one more letter or e-mail written and it keeps another Trail from being
closed then whats the harm. Lets not forget we can all use the Delete Key
which is probably being used more than it use to around here..
If anybody is that adamant about not receiving Land Use Issue E-mails,
that they can delete without reading, then they don't belong in an organized
or unorganized group, as far as I'm concerned.

" If you think keeping your rights is a hard thing, try getting them back
after their lost"

Judy Raya
TRR- Secretary



----- Original Message -----
From: < jeff.trujillo@m...
<mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...> >
To: < az_vjc@yahoogroups.com <mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:14 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.


> Sandee, bad choice of words sorry, land use issues are not SPAM. "I bow my
> head and mean no disrespect" ) I just feel that just because someone
> doesnt want to recieve certain emails they cant join is BS. I'm all for
the
> intitial letter to inform them that they must "accept" before they get
> accepted to the club. I have been to many cleanups and will continue to do
> so and also write letters for land use issues. That is not what AZVJC is
all
> about. How about when you sign up for the emails, how we do it now, that
> there can be an added block "recieve land use issue emails". Like I said
> before, I will choose to recieve them but to force them on everyone in
order
> for them to join is not good.
>
>
> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> Field Service Representative
> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> jeff.trujillo@m... <mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...>
> Voice480)346-6249
> Fax480)346-6813
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sandee McCullen [mailto:mccullen@c...]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:50 AM
> To: jeff.trujillo@m...
<mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...> ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> Maybe the "words" could re=read.................. "if they don't want the
> land-use info, they can "hit the delete key". The land use info is NOT
spam
> and the sooner ALL OHV recreationists accept this the sooner we can start
> WINNING some of the battles. As it stands right now we've LOST the
> Jawbreaker Appeal .................. that's most likely just the
"beginning
> to the end" unless EVERYONE gets involved. Enough of my bandwagon but
12-15
> members getting involved is not enough. I applaud Mike for his stand and
> very much appreciate the help!!!!
>
> Sandee
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jeff.trujillo@m...
<mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...>
> > [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 9:57 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com <mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> >
> >
> > Mike, I think thats a little harsh "If they don't want the
> > land-use info, then they can leave." It would be different if we were
all
> > paying dues or something. But were not, so to tell them they have
> > to receive
> > land use emails is like telling them they have to receive spam.
> > I'm all for
> > receiving them but I am also thinking of others that may not feel the
same
> > way. As we all appreciate what you are doing I just feel (in my
> > own opinion)
> > that we (AZVJC) should not force certain emails on any of the members.
> > "flamesuit on" I think we should have a poll to find out what the
members
> > feel. Thanks for reading my .05
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: intertwingled [mailto:intertwingled@q...]
> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:24 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com <mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> >
> >
> > >Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:58:22 -0700
> > >To: < Mike@a... <mailto:Mike@a...> >
> > >From: intertwingled < intertwingled@q...
<mailto:intertwingled@q...> >
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> > >In-Reply-To: < 200303170907.AA1507532@a...
<mailto:200303170907.AA1507532@a...> >
> > >
> > >
> > >No, I don't want to leave. I just thought that the only requirement
> > >to be a member of AZVJC was to sign up on the Yahoo Groups mailing
list.
> > >I will sign up on the web site post-haste. =)
> > >
> > >Tony
> > >
> >
> > And also, just to clarify, I want to ask again what the requirements
> > are and or will be to be a "member" of azvjc? I do consider myself
> > a member.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > >At 09:07 AM 3/17/03 -0700, you wrote:
> > >>Currently the website will allow you to join without requiring you to
be
> > a member of the mailing list. And it does not verify the e-mail
> > address so
> > a "new" member could put Nobody@H... <mailto:Nobody@H...> and
the website will accept
that.
> > >>
> > >>The new website will require a valid e-mail address so that we can
send
> > out land-use information to everyone in the club. If they don't want
the
> > land-use info, then they can leave.
> > >>
> > >>- Mike
> > >>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> > >>From: "intertwingled" < intertwingled@q...
<mailto:intertwingled@q...> >
> > >>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:32:28 -0700
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>I thought the only requirement to be a member of the club was
> > >>>to sign up on the yahoo mailing list? Doesn't that already
> > >>>require a valid email address? Are we changing lists, or what?
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> > --
> > even the safest course is fraught with peril
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----------
> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
> > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
> > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
> > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> > error, please
> > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error,
please
> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
>



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


80740 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 11:56am
Subject: RE: Draft a Welcome Letter.


I disagree Joe............. individual emails HAVE helped................
how many of you that are now involved knew anything about what was going on
a year ago???? I don't believe even you would have "gone to an
'information' site"..... it takes getting this information to the FRONT and
that means to EVERYONE.

Those that "are interested" will most likely "go to the WEB page" but what
about the OTHER 2000+ or the NEW guys that don't know anything about what's
happening out there?

As I've already stated.............. this doesn't mean any more than what's
already out there but "new" members and those that "simply don't think it's
important yet" NEED to be reminded! Believe me, YOU will become tired of
fighting the battle alone............. PEER PRESSURE also tends to work.
If you post you're going to the meeting Thursday wearing your RED
shirt......... others will follow.

Personally I think Mike is simply letting new members know what is involved
in being a part of AZVJC. 4-Wheeling is NOT the only reason any longer.
Remember: If we ALL want to continue 4-wheeling we ALL need to FIGHT FOR
THAT RIGHT....... we might not like it but that's the way it is today and
it's not going to change in the near future. Just heard Center for
Biological Diversity is trying HARD to get the desert tortoise in Arizona
listed on the endangered list........... if THAT happens a whole bunch of
our trails are GONE.........

Knowing and fighting issues such as these.............. are they worth a
few emails to keep everyone up to date?

Sandee

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Kearney [mailto:Joe-CJ7@j...]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 12:53 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> Jeff, Well said.
>
> I think instead of sending out emails with lands use issue each member
> should be able to go to the web site (I would be willing to host it and
> maintain it)and have ALL information there like email address and
> issues and
> meeting times and locations. I do not think individual emails will help.
> The people that are interested can go to a seperate web site and get the
> information. You are correct in hitting the delete button is something we
> all know how to do.
>
> Like Jeff said even though I may not agree with the emails being sent out
> does not mean I will not accept them.
>
> I think land use issue are VERY important to us and a whole and
> we all need
> to be involved or the vehicles that we put so much money into
> will be great
> for driving over speed bumbs.
>
> Thanks for your input Judy.
>
> Joe Kearney
> Joe-CJ7@J...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jeff.trujillo@m...
> [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 12:29 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> Judy, first of all, you need to fully understand what I wrote
> back, I agreed
> with Sandee
>
> "bad choice of words sorry (for me), land use issues are not
> SPAM. "I bow my
> head and mean no disrespect"
>
> I just felt that you should be able to join the club with out having to
> recieve manitory emails. I dont disagree with the intentions of the emails
> just the fact your forced to take emails to join. I thought the only
> requirement to join was to have a jeep. And yes I agree that without the
> land we wouldnt be able to enjoy our sport. But just because I
> disagree with
> something doesnt mean I aint going to accept the rules. I dont agree with
> some state laws but I abide by them. .05
>
> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> Field Service Representative
> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> jeff.trujillo@m...
> Voice480)346-6249
> Fax480)346-6813
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Judy RAYA [mailto:jhraya@m...]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 12:02 PM
> To: AzVJC; jeff.trujillo@m...
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> First of all Sandee Wrote:
>
> The land use info is NOT spam
> and the sooner ALL OHV recreationists accept this the sooner we can start
> WINNING some of the battles.
>
> That says NOT SPAM!
>
> Second of all these Land Use Issues have to do with the activity
> we are all
> involved in rather, you pay dues ,not pay dues, Organized, not Organized,
> Whatever.. Im sick and tired of all the complaining and nobody wanting to
> step up to the plate and do anything about it expect whine about it and NO
> Im not talking about ALL the AZVJC members.
> If you don't care if you get the e-mails one way or another
> why are you
> making such an issue of it? If one Land use e-mail educates one
> person, and
> gets one more letter or e-mail written and it keeps another Trail
> from being
> closed then whats the harm. Lets not forget we can all use the Delete Key
> which is probably being used more than it use to around here..
> If anybody is that adamant about not receiving Land Use
> Issue E-mails,
> that they can delete without reading, then they don't belong in
> an organized
> or unorganized group, as far as I'm concerned.
>
> " If you think keeping your rights is a hard thing, try getting them back
> after their lost"
>
> Judy Raya
> TRR- Secretary
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: < jeff.trujillo@m...
> <mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...> >
> To: < az_vjc@yahoogroups.com <mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com> >
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:14 AM
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> > Sandee, bad choice of words sorry, land use issues are not
> SPAM. "I bow my
> > head and mean no disrespect" ) I just feel that just because someone
> > doesnt want to recieve certain emails they cant join is BS. I'm all for
> the
> > intitial letter to inform them that they must "accept" before they get
> > accepted to the club. I have been to many cleanups and will
> continue to do
> > so and also write letters for land use issues. That is not what AZVJC is
> all
> > about. How about when you sign up for the emails, how we do it now, that
> > there can be an added block "recieve land use issue emails". Like I said
> > before, I will choose to recieve them but to force them on everyone in
> order
> > for them to join is not good.
> >
> >
> > Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > Field Service Representative
> > MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > jeff.trujillo@m... <mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...>
> > Voice480)346-6249
> > Fax480)346-6813
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sandee McCullen [mailto:mccullen@c...]
> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:50 AM
> > To: jeff.trujillo@m...
> <mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...> ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> >
> >
> > Maybe the "words" could re=read.................. "if they
> don't want the
> > land-use info, they can "hit the delete key". The land use info is NOT
> spam
> > and the sooner ALL OHV recreationists accept this the sooner we
> can start
> > WINNING some of the battles. As it stands right now we've LOST the
> > Jawbreaker Appeal .................. that's most likely just the
> "beginning
> > to the end" unless EVERYONE gets involved. Enough of my bandwagon but
> 12-15
> > members getting involved is not enough. I applaud Mike for his
> stand and
> > very much appreciate the help!!!!
> >
> > Sandee
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: jeff.trujillo@m...
> <mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...>
> > > [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 9:57 AM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com <mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike, I think thats a little harsh "If they don't want the
> > > land-use info, then they can leave." It would be different if we were
> all
> > > paying dues or something. But were not, so to tell them they have
> > > to receive
> > > land use emails is like telling them they have to receive spam.
> > > I'm all for
> > > receiving them but I am also thinking of others that may not feel the
> same
> > > way. As we all appreciate what you are doing I just feel (in my
> > > own opinion)
> > > that we (AZVJC) should not force certain emails on any of the members.
> > > "flamesuit on" I think we should have a poll to find out what the
> members
> > > feel. Thanks for reading my .05
> > >
> > > Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: intertwingled [mailto:intertwingled@q...]
> > > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:24 AM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com <mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> > >
> > >
> > > >Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:58:22 -0700
> > > >To: < Mike@a... <mailto:Mike@a...> >
> > > >From: intertwingled < intertwingled@q...
> <mailto:intertwingled@q...> >
> > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> > > >In-Reply-To: < 200303170907.AA1507532@a...
> <mailto:200303170907.AA1507532@a...> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >No, I don't want to leave. I just thought that the only requirement
> > > >to be a member of AZVJC was to sign up on the Yahoo Groups mailing
> list.
> > > >I will sign up on the web site post-haste. =)
> > > >
> > > >Tony
> > > >
> > >
> > > And also, just to clarify, I want to ask again what the requirements
> > > are and or will be to be a "member" of azvjc? I do consider myself
> > > a member.
> > >
> > > Tony
> > >
> > > >At 09:07 AM 3/17/03 -0700, you wrote:
> > > >>Currently the website will allow you to join without
> requiring you to
> be
> > > a member of the mailing list. And it does not verify the e-mail
> > > address so
> > > a "new" member could put Nobody@H... <mailto:Nobody@H...> and
> the website will accept
> that.
> > > >>
> > > >>The new website will require a valid e-mail address so that we can
> send
> > > out land-use information to everyone in the club. If they don't want
> the
> > > land-use info, then they can leave.
> > > >>
> > > >>- Mike
> > > >>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> > > >>From: "intertwingled" < intertwingled@q...
> <mailto:intertwingled@q...> >
> > > >>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:32:28 -0700
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>I thought the only requirement to be a member of the club was
> > > >>>to sign up on the yahoo mailing list? Doesn't that already
> > > >>>require a valid email address? Are we changing lists, or what?
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> > > --
> > > even the safest course is fraught with peril
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----------
> > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person
> or entity to
> > > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other
> use of, or
> > > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
> > > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> > > error, please
> > > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> computer..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> >
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
> > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
> > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
> > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error,
> please
> > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> error, please
> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


80741 From: Dan Dennis <dannpegg@c...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 0:23pm
Subject: Anyone coming to Havasu this weekend???


There's a 4 wheel event 3-21 thru 3-23 here in Havasu being put on by
a local club (Havasu Sidewinders, or something like that...). Just
wondering if anyone had plans to come out this way...

I haven't heard any mention of anyone heading out, but I thought I'd
ask. I posted it a few months back on the events listing.

If you come out, see ya there...If not, TYPE ya here...

AZ Treadhead (BRUZR's Daddy)
'97 TJ (BRUZR) in LHC


80742 From: <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 0:24pm
Subject: RE: Draft a Welcome Letter.


Sandee, well put. Just as AZVJC changes so will I. After reading again(and
understanding why) about the required emails I have to agree and accept. I
admit I didnt know anything about the land issues until I read some posts on
the site after I joined. Now I get involved and would like to see more
people get involved as well. How about we close this discussion (or not) and
get Mike what he was asking for "suggestions on the welcome letter to new
members"

Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice480)346-6249
Fax480)346-6813


-----Original Message-----
From: Sandee McCullen [mailto:mccullen@c...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 12:56 PM
To: Joe-CJ7@J...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.


I disagree Joe............. individual emails HAVE helped................
how many of you that are now involved knew anything about what was going on
a year ago???? I don't believe even you would have "gone to an
'information' site"..... it takes getting this information to the FRONT and
that means to EVERYONE.

Those that "are interested" will most likely "go to the WEB page" but what
about the OTHER 2000+ or the NEW guys that don't know anything about what's
happening out there?

As I've already stated.............. this doesn't mean any more than what's
already out there but "new" members and those that "simply don't think it's
important yet" NEED to be reminded! Believe me, YOU will become tired of
fighting the battle alone............. PEER PRESSURE also tends to work.
If you post you're going to the meeting Thursday wearing your RED
shirt......... others will follow.

Personally I think Mike is simply letting new members know what is involved
in being a part of AZVJC. 4-Wheeling is NOT the only reason any longer.
Remember: If we ALL want to continue 4-wheeling we ALL need to FIGHT FOR
THAT RIGHT....... we might not like it but that's the way it is today and
it's not going to change in the near future. Just heard Center for
Biological Diversity is trying HARD to get the desert tortoise in Arizona
listed on the endangered list........... if THAT happens a whole bunch of
our trails are GONE.........

Knowing and fighting issues such as these.............. are they worth a
few emails to keep everyone up to date?

Sandee

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Kearney [mailto:Joe-CJ7@j...]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 12:53 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> Jeff, Well said.
>
> I think instead of sending out emails with lands use issue each member
> should be able to go to the web site (I would be willing to host it and
> maintain it)and have ALL information there like email address and
> issues and
> meeting times and locations. I do not think individual emails will help.
> The people that are interested can go to a seperate web site and get the
> information. You are correct in hitting the delete button is something we
> all know how to do.
>
> Like Jeff said even though I may not agree with the emails being sent out
> does not mean I will not accept them.
>
> I think land use issue are VERY important to us and a whole and
> we all need
> to be involved or the vehicles that we put so much money into
> will be great
> for driving over speed bumbs.
>
> Thanks for your input Judy.
>
> Joe Kearney
> Joe-CJ7@J...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jeff.trujillo@m...
> [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 12:29 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> Judy, first of all, you need to fully understand what I wrote
> back, I agreed
> with Sandee
>
> "bad choice of words sorry (for me), land use issues are not
> SPAM. "I bow my
> head and mean no disrespect"
>
> I just felt that you should be able to join the club with out having to
> recieve manitory emails. I dont disagree with the intentions of the emails
> just the fact your forced to take emails to join. I thought the only
> requirement to join was to have a jeep. And yes I agree that without the
> land we wouldnt be able to enjoy our sport. But just because I
> disagree with
> something doesnt mean I aint going to accept the rules. I dont agree with
> some state laws but I abide by them. .05
>
> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> Field Service Representative
> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> jeff.trujillo@m...
> Voice480)346-6249
> Fax480)346-6813
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Judy RAYA [mailto:jhraya@m...]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 12:02 PM
> To: AzVJC; jeff.trujillo@m...
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> First of all Sandee Wrote:
>
> The land use info is NOT spam
> and the sooner ALL OHV recreationists accept this the sooner we can start
> WINNING some of the battles.
>
> That says NOT SPAM!
>
> Second of all these Land Use Issues have to do with the activity
> we are all
> involved in rather, you pay dues ,not pay dues, Organized, not Organized,
> Whatever.. Im sick and tired of all the complaining and nobody wanting to
> step up to the plate and do anything about it expect whine about it and NO
> Im not talking about ALL the AZVJC members.
> If you don't care if you get the e-mails one way or another
> why are you
> making such an issue of it? If one Land use e-mail educates one
> person, and
> gets one more letter or e-mail written and it keeps another Trail
> from being
> closed then whats the harm. Lets not forget we can all use the Delete Key
> which is probably being used more than it use to around here..
> If anybody is that adamant about not receiving Land Use
> Issue E-mails,
> that they can delete without reading, then they don't belong in
> an organized
> or unorganized group, as far as I'm concerned.
>
> " If you think keeping your rights is a hard thing, try getting them back
> after their lost"
>
> Judy Raya
> TRR- Secretary
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: < jeff.trujillo@m...
> <mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...> >
> To: < az_vjc@yahoogroups.com <mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com> >
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:14 AM
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> > Sandee, bad choice of words sorry, land use issues are not
> SPAM. "I bow my
> > head and mean no disrespect" ) I just feel that just because someone
> > doesnt want to recieve certain emails they cant join is BS. I'm all for
> the
> > intitial letter to inform them that they must "accept" before they get
> > accepted to the club. I have been to many cleanups and will
> continue to do
> > so and also write letters for land use issues. That is not what AZVJC is
> all
> > about. How about when you sign up for the emails, how we do it now, that
> > there can be an added block "recieve land use issue emails". Like I said
> > before, I will choose to recieve them but to force them on everyone in
> order
> > for them to join is not good.
> >
> >
> > Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > Field Service Representative
> > MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > jeff.trujillo@m... <mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...>
> > Voice480)346-6249
> > Fax480)346-6813
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sandee McCullen [mailto:mccullen@c...]
> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:50 AM
> > To: jeff.trujillo@m...
> <mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...> ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> >
> >
> > Maybe the "words" could re=read.................. "if they
> don't want the
> > land-use info, they can "hit the delete key". The land use info is NOT
> spam
> > and the sooner ALL OHV recreationists accept this the sooner we
> can start
> > WINNING some of the battles. As it stands right now we've LOST the
> > Jawbreaker Appeal .................. that's most likely just the
> "beginning
> > to the end" unless EVERYONE gets involved. Enough of my bandwagon but
> 12-15
> > members getting involved is not enough. I applaud Mike for his
> stand and
> > very much appreciate the help!!!!
> >
> > Sandee
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: jeff.trujillo@m...
> <mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...>
> > > [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 9:57 AM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com <mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike, I think thats a little harsh "If they don't want the
> > > land-use info, then they can leave." It would be different if we were
> all
> > > paying dues or something. But were not, so to tell them they have
> > > to receive
> > > land use emails is like telling them they have to receive spam.
> > > I'm all for
> > > receiving them but I am also thinking of others that may not feel the
> same
> > > way. As we all appreciate what you are doing I just feel (in my
> > > own opinion)
> > > that we (AZVJC) should not force certain emails on any of the members.
> > > "flamesuit on" I think we should have a poll to find out what the
> members
> > > feel. Thanks for reading my .05
> > >
> > > Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: intertwingled [mailto:intertwingled@q...]
> > > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:24 AM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com <mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> > >
> > >
> > > >Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:58:22 -0700
> > > >To: < Mike@a... <mailto:Mike@a...> >
> > > >From: intertwingled < intertwingled@q...
> <mailto:intertwingled@q...> >
> > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> > > >In-Reply-To: < 200303170907.AA1507532@a...
> <mailto:200303170907.AA1507532@a...> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >No, I don't want to leave. I just thought that the only requirement
> > > >to be a member of AZVJC was to sign up on the Yahoo Groups mailing
> list.
> > > >I will sign up on the web site post-haste. =)
> > > >
> > > >Tony
> > > >
> > >
> > > And also, just to clarify, I want to ask again what the requirements
> > > are and or will be to be a "member" of azvjc? I do consider myself
> > > a member.
> > >
> > > Tony
> > >
> > > >At 09:07 AM 3/17/03 -0700, you wrote:
> > > >>Currently the website will allow you to join without
> requiring you to
> be
> > > a member of the mailing list. And it does not verify the e-mail
> > > address so
> > > a "new" member could put Nobody@H... <mailto:Nobody@H...> and
> the website will accept
> that.
> > > >>
> > > >>The new website will require a valid e-mail address so that we can
> send
> > > out land-use information to everyone in the club. If they don't want
> the
> > > land-use info, then they can leave.
> > > >>
> > > >>- Mike
> > > >>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> > > >>From: "intertwingled" < intertwingled@q...
> <mailto:intertwingled@q...> >
> > > >>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:32:28 -0700
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>I thought the only requirement to be a member of the club was
> > > >>>to sign up on the yahoo mailing list? Doesn't that already
> > > >>>require a valid email address? Are we changing lists, or what?
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> > > --
> > > even the safest course is fraught with peril
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----------
> > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person
> or entity to
> > > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other
> use of, or
> > > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
> > > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> > > error, please
> > > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> computer..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> >
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
> > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
> > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
> > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error,
> please
> > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> error, please
> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..


80743 From: Joe Kearney <Joe-CJ7@j...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 0:30pm
Subject: RE: Draft a Welcome Letter.


Sandee,

It take a big person to admit that they are wrong.

I am wrong.

Well put Sandee. I still offer my space and time for a seperate land use
web site if everybody wants.

Joe Kearney

-----Original Message-----
From: Sandee McCullen [mailto:mccullen@c...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 12:56 PM
To: Joe-CJ7@J...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.


I disagree Joe............. individual emails HAVE helped................
how many of you that are now involved knew anything about what was going on
a year ago???? I don't believe even you would have "gone to an
'information' site"..... it takes getting this information to the FRONT and
that means to EVERYONE.

Those that "are interested" will most likely "go to the WEB page" but what
about the OTHER 2000+ or the NEW guys that don't know anything about what's
happening out there?

As I've already stated.............. this doesn't mean any more than what's
already out there but "new" members and those that "simply don't think it's
important yet" NEED to be reminded! Believe me, YOU will become tired of
fighting the battle alone............. PEER PRESSURE also tends to work.
If you post you're going to the meeting Thursday wearing your RED
shirt......... others will follow.

Personally I think Mike is simply letting new members know what is involved
in being a part of AZVJC. 4-Wheeling is NOT the only reason any longer.
Remember: If we ALL want to continue 4-wheeling we ALL need to FIGHT FOR
THAT RIGHT....... we might not like it but that's the way it is today and
it's not going to change in the near future. Just heard Center for
Biological Diversity is trying HARD to get the desert tortoise in Arizona
listed on the endangered list........... if THAT happens a whole bunch of
our trails are GONE.........

Knowing and fighting issues such as these.............. are they worth a
few emails to keep everyone up to date?

Sandee

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Kearney [mailto:Joe-CJ7@j...]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 12:53 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> Jeff, Well said.
>
> I think instead of sending out emails with lands use issue each member
> should be able to go to the web site (I would be willing to host it and
> maintain it)and have ALL information there like email address and
> issues and
> meeting times and locations. I do not think individual emails will help.
> The people that are interested can go to a seperate web site and get the
> information. You are correct in hitting the delete button is something we
> all know how to do.
>
> Like Jeff said even though I may not agree with the emails being sent out
> does not mean I will not accept them.
>
> I think land use issue are VERY important to us and a whole and
> we all need
> to be involved or the vehicles that we put so much money into
> will be great
> for driving over speed bumbs.
>
> Thanks for your input Judy.
>
> Joe Kearney
> Joe-CJ7@J...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jeff.trujillo@m...
> [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 12:29 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> Judy, first of all, you need to fully understand what I wrote
> back, I agreed
> with Sandee
>
> "bad choice of words sorry (for me), land use issues are not
> SPAM. "I bow my
> head and mean no disrespect"
>
> I just felt that you should be able to join the club with out having to
> recieve manitory emails. I dont disagree with the intentions of the emails
> just the fact your forced to take emails to join. I thought the only
> requirement to join was to have a jeep. And yes I agree that without the
> land we wouldnt be able to enjoy our sport. But just because I
> disagree with
> something doesnt mean I aint going to accept the rules. I dont agree with
> some state laws but I abide by them. .05
>
> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> Field Service Representative
> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> jeff.trujillo@m...
> Voice480)346-6249
> Fax480)346-6813
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Judy RAYA [mailto:jhraya@m...]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 12:02 PM
> To: AzVJC; jeff.trujillo@m...
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> First of all Sandee Wrote:
>
> The land use info is NOT spam
> and the sooner ALL OHV recreationists accept this the sooner we can start
> WINNING some of the battles.
>
> That says NOT SPAM!
>
> Second of all these Land Use Issues have to do with the activity
> we are all
> involved in rather, you pay dues ,not pay dues, Organized, not Organized,
> Whatever.. Im sick and tired of all the complaining and nobody wanting to
> step up to the plate and do anything about it expect whine about it and NO
> Im not talking about ALL the AZVJC members.
> If you don't care if you get the e-mails one way or another
> why are you
> making such an issue of it? If one Land use e-mail educates one
> person, and
> gets one more letter or e-mail written and it keeps another Trail
> from being
> closed then whats the harm. Lets not forget we can all use the Delete Key
> which is probably being used more than it use to around here..
> If anybody is that adamant about not receiving Land Use
> Issue E-mails,
> that they can delete without reading, then they don't belong in
> an organized
> or unorganized group, as far as I'm concerned.
>
> " If you think keeping your rights is a hard thing, try getting them back
> after their lost"
>
> Judy Raya
> TRR- Secretary
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: < jeff.trujillo@m...
> <mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...> >
> To: < az_vjc@yahoogroups.com <mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com> >
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:14 AM
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> > Sandee, bad choice of words sorry, land use issues are not
> SPAM. "I bow my
> > head and mean no disrespect" ) I just feel that just because someone
> > doesnt want to recieve certain emails they cant join is BS. I'm all for
> the
> > intitial letter to inform them that they must "accept" before they get
> > accepted to the club. I have been to many cleanups and will
> continue to do
> > so and also write letters for land use issues. That is not what AZVJC is
> all
> > about. How about when you sign up for the emails, how we do it now, that
> > there can be an added block "recieve land use issue emails". Like I said
> > before, I will choose to recieve them but to force them on everyone in
> order
> > for them to join is not good.
> >
> >
> > Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > Field Service Representative
> > MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > jeff.trujillo@m... <mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...>
> > Voice480)346-6249
> > Fax480)346-6813
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sandee McCullen [mailto:mccullen@c...]
> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:50 AM
> > To: jeff.trujillo@m...
> <mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...> ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> >
> >
> > Maybe the "words" could re=read.................. "if they
> don't want the
> > land-use info, they can "hit the delete key". The land use info is NOT
> spam
> > and the sooner ALL OHV recreationists accept this the sooner we
> can start
> > WINNING some of the battles. As it stands right now we've LOST the
> > Jawbreaker Appeal .................. that's most likely just the
> "beginning
> > to the end" unless EVERYONE gets involved. Enough of my bandwagon but
> 12-15
> > members getting involved is not enough. I applaud Mike for his
> stand and
> > very much appreciate the help!!!!
> >
> > Sandee
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: jeff.trujillo@m...
> <mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...>
> > > [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 9:57 AM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com <mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike, I think thats a little harsh "If they don't want the
> > > land-use info, then they can leave." It would be different if we were
> all
> > > paying dues or something. But were not, so to tell them they have
> > > to receive
> > > land use emails is like telling them they have to receive spam.
> > > I'm all for
> > > receiving them but I am also thinking of others that may not feel the
> same
> > > way. As we all appreciate what you are doing I just feel (in my
> > > own opinion)
> > > that we (AZVJC) should not force certain emails on any of the members.
> > > "flamesuit on" I think we should have a poll to find out what the
> members
> > > feel. Thanks for reading my .05
> > >
> > > Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: intertwingled [mailto:intertwingled@q...]
> > > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:24 AM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com <mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> > >
> > >
> > > >Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:58:22 -0700
> > > >To: < Mike@a... <mailto:Mike@a...> >
> > > >From: intertwingled < intertwingled@q...
> <mailto:intertwingled@q...> >
> > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> > > >In-Reply-To: < 200303170907.AA1507532@a...
> <mailto:200303170907.AA1507532@a...> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >No, I don't want to leave. I just thought that the only requirement
> > > >to be a member of AZVJC was to sign up on the Yahoo Groups mailing
> list.
> > > >I will sign up on the web site post-haste. =)
> > > >
> > > >Tony
> > > >
> > >
> > > And also, just to clarify, I want to ask again what the requirements
> > > are and or will be to be a "member" of azvjc? I do consider myself
> > > a member.
> > >
> > > Tony
> > >
> > > >At 09:07 AM 3/17/03 -0700, you wrote:
> > > >>Currently the website will allow you to join without
> requiring you to
> be
> > > a member of the mailing list. And it does not verify the e-mail
> > > address so
> > > a "new" member could put Nobody@H... <mailto:Nobody@H...> and
> the website will accept
> that.
> > > >>
> > > >>The new website will require a valid e-mail address so that we can
> send
> > > out land-use information to everyone in the club. If they don't want
> the
> > > land-use info, then they can leave.
> > > >>
> > > >>- Mike
> > > >>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> > > >>From: "intertwingled" < intertwingled@q...
> <mailto:intertwingled@q...> >
> > > >>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:32:28 -0700
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>I thought the only requirement to be a member of the club was
> > > >>>to sign up on the yahoo mailing list? Doesn't that already
> > > >>>require a valid email address? Are we changing lists, or what?
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> > > --
> > > even the safest course is fraught with peril
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----------
> > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person
> or entity to
> > > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other
> use of, or
> > > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
> > > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> > > error, please
> > > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> computer..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> >
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
> > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
> > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
> > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error,
> please
> > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> error, please
> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


80744 From: bk83gold <bk83@j...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 0:50pm
Subject: MUD


Is any one going to play in the mud in the next couple of days. If
so shoot me an Email. Lots of rain lots of MUD!

Happy Wheelin,
Brndon *(JEEPER


80745 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 0:48pm
Subject: RE: MUD


BE CAREFUL where you go............. DO NOT go off an established
ROAD/TRAIL and most preferably, don't go out on STate Trust Lands. I know
this is fun for many of you but if it's "seen" by the public and/or agencies
it looks bad for us........ The 'greenies' love to say........ "SEE,
they're destroying the land". Have fun but please be respectful. Sandee

> -----Original Message-----
> From: bk83gold [mailto:bk83@j...]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 1:51 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] MUD
>
>
> Is any one going to play in the mud in the next couple of days. If
> so shoot me an Email. Lots of rain lots of MUD!
>
> Happy Wheelin,
> Brndon *(JEEPER
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


80746 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 1:09pm
Subject: RE: Draft a Welcome Letter.


Nice vote Mike! I got home and started to read and am glad I read till the
end on this thread before I started in. BTW I highly agree with Mike and
feel that as we do not pay dues and receive so much from this club that is
more of a reason the Land Use should be included. Jim F.

"I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member" Groucho
Marx
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Chatfield [mailto:Mike@A...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:52 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.


I will however put it to a vote....
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Michael Chatfield" <Mike@A...>
Reply-To: <Mike@a...>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:51:17 -0700

>No the intent is to constantly inform the membership of Land Use Issues.
What I'm refering to here is:
>
>1. Land Use Meetings.
>2. Letter Writing Campaigns.
>3. Clean Ups.
>
>The way I am writing the software is that every member of the AzVJC website
will recieve these e-mails. The only way for them to not recieve the e-mails
is to unsubscribe (become a non-member). PERIOD.
>
>
>
>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@j...>
>Reply-To: <Joe-CJ7@J...>
>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:19:01 -0700
>
>>Clint,
>>
>>I think that an organized club where you pay dues and all of that then
what
>>you are saying would be fine. But this is the AZVJC and I do not feel
this
>>is the place for that.
>>
>>A 1 time informational email when joining would be great and even have a
>>place on the web site for land use issues but an email to all members all
of
>>the time is not my choice.
>>
>>I veto that idea, do I have vetoe power? <grin>
>>
>>BTW, Clint thanks for your opinion.
>>
>>Joe Kearney
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Clint Ramsey [mailto:cwramsey@t...]
>>Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:13 AM
>>To: Joe-CJ7@J...; jeff.trujillo@m...;
>>az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>>
>>
>>My opinion, pound them with land use email. Make sure every member has
>>knowledge of what is going on in the state. If they don't like it boot
>>them. If they want to join AZVJC and have the sticker on their Jeep
>>then they can put up with the land use emails.
>>
>>Clint Ramsey
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Joe Kearney [mailto:Joe-CJ7@j...]
>>Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:03 AM
>>To: jeff.trujillo@m...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>>
>>Jeff,
>>
>>Mike can correct me if I am wrong, but I think that it is not going to
>>be
>>ongoing landuse issue emails but just the first one explaing some of our
>>beleifs. I did not read that there were going to be ongoing landuse
>>emails.
>>
>>Correct Mike?
>>
>>Joe Kearney
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: jeff.trujillo@m...
>>[mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
>>Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 9:57 AM
>>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>>
>>
>>Mike, I think thats a little harsh "If they don't want the
>>land-use info, then they can leave." It would be different if we were
>>all
>>paying dues or something. But were not, so to tell them they have to
>>receive
>>land use emails is like telling them they have to receive spam. I'm all
>>for
>>receiving them but I am also thinking of others that may not feel the
>>same
>>way. As we all appreciate what you are doing I just feel (in my own
>>opinion)
>>that we (AZVJC) should not force certain emails on any of the members.
>>"flamesuit on" I think we should have a poll to find out what the
>>members
>>feel. Thanks for reading my .05
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: intertwingled [mailto:intertwingled@q...]
>>Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:24 AM
>>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>>
>>
>>>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:58:22 -0700
>>>To: <Mike@a...>
>>>From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
>>>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>>>In-Reply-To: <200303170907.AA1507532@a...>
>>>
>>>
>>>No, I don't want to leave. I just thought that the only requirement
>>>to be a member of AZVJC was to sign up on the Yahoo Groups mailing
>>list.
>>>I will sign up on the web site post-haste. =)
>>>
>>>Tony
>>>
>>
>>And also, just to clarify, I want to ask again what the requirements
>>are and or will be to be a "member" of azvjc? I do consider myself
>>a member.
>>
>>Tony
>>
>>>At 09:07 AM 3/17/03 -0700, you wrote:
>>>>Currently the website will allow you to join without requiring you to
>>be
>>a member of the mailing list. And it does not verify the e-mail address
>>so
>>a "new" member could put Nobody@H... and the website will accept
>>that.
>>>>
>>>>The new website will require a valid e-mail address so that we can
>>send
>>out land-use information to everyone in the club. If they don't want
>>the
>>land-use info, then they can leave.
>>>>
>>>>- Mike
>>>>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>>>>From: "intertwingled" <intertwingled@q...>
>>>>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:32:28 -0700
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I thought the only requirement to be a member of the club was
>>>>>to sign up on the yahoo mailing list? Doesn't that already
>>>>>require a valid email address? Are we changing lists, or what?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>--
>>even the safest course is fraught with peril
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>----
>>The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
>>which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
>>material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
>>taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
>>entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
>>MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error,
>>please
>>contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
>>
>>
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


80747 From: Alfred C Staggs <buyland@c...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 1:12pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 3453


more lift isnt going to get your diff any higher you also have toadd bigger
tires.


80748 From: Shaun Girard <spgirard30@c...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 2:14pm
Subject: front axle needed


I am looking for a front axle for my 82 cj. I would really like to get a Dana 60 but I would settle for an 8 lug 44 if anyone has one. I am ready to buy. I just bought my 42 inch swampers and need a front axle to handle them.

Thanks
Shaun


80749 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 1:27pm
Subject: RE: 2" is just not enough!!!


Lets say he has a 2" lift with 31" tires. If he goes to a 4" lift for
33" tires he gains about 1" of space under the differential. He would
need to go to 35" tires to clear 2 more inches.
If he is sitting stock 33" will do fine.

Joey K
93YJ

-----Original Message-----
From: jeff.trujillo@m...
[mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:58 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!


He would have room for bigger tires to get the diff off the rocks LOL

Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice480)346-6249
Fax480)346-6813


-----Original Message-----
From: FredTJ [mailto:fredtj@c...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:54 AM
To: Dan Dennis; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!


Well, let me play devils advocate for a moment, and ask a question that
perhaps you haven't thought about yet

How would things have been different, if you had a 4" lift then instead
of the 2" lift ??



Fred


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Dennis" <dannpegg@c...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:19 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!


> Well, we hit the Bill Williams River Wildlife Refuge this weekend. We
> put in just on the Parker side of the Bill Williams Bridge, went
> through this awesome scenery that makes you forget that your 20 miles
> from Hell (Lake Havasu City, for those who have never been here during

> the summertime -- 128 degrees is not out of the question!!!) Anyway,
> we headed towards Parker on Shea Rd, past the turn-off to get to
> Planet Ranch (all graded roads, sucks not to be abled to crawl a
> bit) till we got to "The Crossroads" where I probably SHOULD have made

> a deal with the Devil...JK) and took a left to head out to Swansea
> Ghost Town. Got there, hung out a bit and let my 2 year old boy run
> rampant, then got back on the trail to head back. Instead of going out

> to Parker, we decided to head back the way we came. Now, it's always
> muddy out there, lots of moisture in the earth and plenty of river
> crossings. I just HAD to go through the mudhole that NO ONE EVER goes
> through!!! I now see why they don't...Hence the subject of my post, 2"

> is just not enough!!! See, you all thought I was talking about my
> MANHOOD, didn't you?!! I was almost out of the mudhole when my front
> diff got high-centered and I was S-T-U-C-K!!!
>
> Needless to say I am now looking to lift my Jeep to 4" at or around
> $500. Does anyone have any suggestions as too what I can get for
> around that price range? I found a complete Rough Country 4" Lift on
> E-Bay for $475. Is this even worth looking at?
>
>
> TIA,
> AZ Treadhead (BRUZR's Daddy)
> '97 TJ (BRUZR) in LHC, AZ
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to

which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or

taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error,
please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


80750 From: Joe West <joe.west@s...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 1:28pm
Subject: RE: front axle needed


Shaun,

If I were you, I wouldn't "settle" for a Dana 44. With 42" swampers... I'd shoot for a Dana 60 / Ford 9" high pinion, and nothing less.
I'm running 37" swampers with a Dana 44 and using CTM front u-joints... and I don't think I'd even consider running bigger than 39" with this setup. I'm thinking that you are just asking to have problems if you use a Dana 44 with 42" swampers. I'm sitting on 37" tires on my Dana 44 front and, depending on how well my CTM u-joints hold up, I may go to 39" tires... if I break a CTM; I'll stick with 37" swampers.

Find a 60... you will pay for it up front, but I don't think you'll regret the decision.

Kind Regards,

Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: Shaun Girard [mailto:spgirard30@cox.net]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 3:15 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] front axle needed


I am looking for a front axle for my 82 cj. I would really like to get a Dana 60 but I would settle for an 8 lug 44 if anyone has one. I am ready to buy. I just bought my 42 inch swampers and need a front axle to handle them.

Thanks
Shaun

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



80751 From: Shaun Girard <spgirard30@c...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 2:36pm
Subject: Re: front axle needed


Joe.
I bought your 60 a while ago and I would love to get a matching 60 up front. The sellers of 60's are proud of them, they like to put a large price tag on them. I just need to find one local so I dont have to spend the extra on shipping. So if anyone out there has a passenger side diff 60 let me know. Thanks

Shaun
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe West
To: Shaun Girard ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 1:28 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] front axle needed


Shaun,

If I were you, I wouldn't "settle" for a Dana 44. With 42" swampers... I'd shoot for a Dana 60 / Ford 9" high pinion, and nothing less.
I'm running 37" swampers with a Dana 44 and using CTM front u-joints... and I don't think I'd even consider running bigger than 39" with this setup. I'm thinking that you are just asking to have problems if you use a Dana 44 with 42" swampers. I'm sitting on 37" tires on my Dana 44 front and, depending on how well my CTM u-joints hold up, I may go to 39" tires... if I break a CTM; I'll stick with 37" swampers.

Find a 60... you will pay for it up front, but I don't think you'll regret the decision.

Kind Regards,

Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: Shaun Girard [mailto:spgirard30@cox.net]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 3:15 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] front axle needed


I am looking for a front axle for my 82 cj. I would really like to get a Dana 60 but I would settle for an 8 lug 44 if anyone has one. I am ready to buy. I just bought my 42 inch swampers and need a front axle to handle them.

Thanks
Shaun

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



80752 From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 1:58pm
Subject: Re: Draft a Welcome Letter.


Jeff,

I don't think it's like telling them they have to receive spam. I
think it's telling them they have to be responsible and that's
perfectly appropriate.

-Roger

--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, jeff.trujillo@m... wrote:
> Mike, I think thats a little harsh "If they don't want the
> land-use info, then they can leave." It would be different if we
were all
> paying dues or something. But were not, so to tell them they have
to receive
> land use emails is like telling them they have to receive spam.
> <snip>


80753 From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 2:10pm
Subject: Re: Draft a Welcome Letter.


I feel the AZVJC is definitely the place for bringing land use issues
to light. I view this a just another (positive) step in the
continuous evolution of the AZVJC.

-Roger

--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@j...> wrote:
> Clint,
>
> I think that an organized club where you pay dues and all of that
then what
> you are saying would be fine. But this is the AZVJC and I do not
feel this
> is the place for that.
>
> A 1 time informational email when joining would be great and even
have a
> place on the web site for land use issues but an email to all
members all of
> the time is not my choice.
>
> I veto that idea, do I have vetoe power? <grin>
>
> BTW, Clint thanks for your opinion.
>
> Joe Kearney
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clint Ramsey [mailto:cwramsey@t...]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:13 AM
> To: Joe-CJ7@J...; jeff.trujillo@m...;
> az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> My opinion, pound them with land use email. Make sure every member
has
> knowledge of what is going on in the state. If they don't like it
boot
> them. If they want to join AZVJC and have the sticker on their Jeep
> then they can put up with the land use emails.
>
> Clint Ramsey


80754 From: <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 2:16pm
Subject: RE: Re: Draft a Welcome Letter.


Roger, if you read the last posts on this subject you will find that I
changed my position on having it a requirement. After listening to a few
members, namely Sandee, I totaly agree on the purpose of doing this. I just
had a few issues at first but now "I see the light at the end of the
tunnel". )

Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice480)346-6249
Fax480)346-6813


-----Original Message-----
From: tomas2691 [mailto:tomasr@a...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 2:58 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Draft a Welcome Letter.


Jeff,

I don't think it's like telling them they have to receive spam. I
think it's telling them they have to be responsible and that's
perfectly appropriate.

-Roger

--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, jeff.trujillo@m... wrote:
> Mike, I think thats a little harsh "If they don't want the
> land-use info, then they can leave." It would be different if we
were all
> paying dues or something. But were not, so to tell them they have
to receive
> land use emails is like telling them they have to receive spam.
> <snip>




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..


80755 From: Joe West <joe.west@s...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 2:27pm
Subject: RE: front axle needed


Shaun,

Tell them you are in the military... maybe you can eeek out a discount!

Otherwise... save your money until the right deal comes along... the 44 may be tempting but you'll have problems with it running 42" meats.

Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: Shaun Girard [mailto:spgirard30@cox.net]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 3:36 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] front axle needed


Joe.
I bought your 60 a while ago and I would love to get a matching 60 up front. The sellers of 60's are proud of them, they like to put a large price tag on them. I just need to find one local so I dont have to spend the extra on shipping. So if anyone out there has a passenger side diff 60 let me know. Thanks

Shaun
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe West
To: Shaun Girard ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 1:28 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] front axle needed


Shaun,

If I were you, I wouldn't "settle" for a Dana 44. With 42" swampers... I'd shoot for a Dana 60 / Ford 9" high pinion, and nothing less.
I'm running 37" swampers with a Dana 44 and using CTM front u-joints... and I don't think I'd even consider running bigger than 39" with this setup. I'm thinking that you are just asking to have problems if you use a Dana 44 with 42" swampers. I'm sitting on 37" tires on my Dana 44 front and, depending on how well my CTM u-joints hold up, I may go to 39" tires... if I break a CTM; I'll stick with 37" swampers.

Find a 60... you will pay for it up front, but I don't think you'll regret the decision.

Kind Regards,

Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: Shaun Girard [mailto:spgirard30@cox.net]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 3:15 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] front axle needed


I am looking for a front axle for my 82 cj. I would really like to get a Dana 60 but I would settle for an 8 lug 44 if anyone has one. I am ready to buy. I just bought my 42 inch swampers and need a front axle to handle them.

Thanks
Shaun

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



80756 From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 2:31pm
Subject: Re: Draft a Welcome Letter.


The AZVJC has become less and less of a "virtual" entity and more and
more of a "real" entity and it continues to build momentum. It's
earning increasing respect from the government agency folks. It's
earning increasing acceptance from the ASA4WDC. And it's earning
increasing recognition with the public. Why is all this happening?
Because the AZVJC possesses a lot of forward-thinking, responsible
individuals who take the initiative, who volunteer, and who set a
good example. I think Mike's intentions are just one more example of
this and I am all for it.

The AZVJC has also become one of the most powerful OHV lobbying
bodies in the state. It's an extremely valuable resource for OHV in
general. That's why Sandee McCullen is tapping into it. That's why
John Stewart is posting land use issues to it.

AZVJC matters. It has become important - very important. That's why
the ASA4WDC is starting to accept it. Mike's strategy helps protect
the reputation of the AZVJC by making its members more aware and that
enables them to be more responsible. Mike's strategy is also a great
selling point from a PR standpoint. I'm sure the agency folks will
love it.

Now, if there are concerns with quantity of email, then attention
should be focused not on the land use email but on all the
bullsh...er...off-topic email. ;-)

<SOAPBOX-OFF>

-Roger


--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Chatfield" <Mike@A...> wrote:
> No the intent is to constantly inform the membership of Land Use
Issues. What I'm refering to here is:
>
> 1. Land Use Meetings.
> 2. Letter Writing Campaigns.
> 3. Clean Ups.
>
> The way I am writing the software is that every member of the AzVJC
website will recieve these e-mails. The only way for them to not
recieve the e-mails is to unsubscribe (become a non-member). PERIOD.


80757 From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 3:05pm
Subject: six inch lift leaf springs for 94 yj


Anyone know who might carry six inch lift kit leaf
springs for a 94 YJ?

Thanks,
Tony


--
even the safest course is fraught with peril


80758 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 2:42pm
Subject: RE: six inch lift leaf springs for 94 yj


Alcan Springs. Custom built Jim F.
http://www.alcanspring.com/

"I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member" Groucho
Marx
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/

-----Original Message-----
From: intertwingled [mailto:intertwingled@q...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 4:06 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] six inch lift leaf springs for 94 yj



Anyone know who might carry six inch lift kit leaf
springs for a 94 YJ?

Thanks,
Tony


--
even the safest course is fraught with peril




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


80759 From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 2:50pm
Subject: Re: Draft a Welcome Letter.


Yeah, well, this thread was expanding faster than I could type my
replies. I have since seen your follow-up replies and am glad you
(and Joe) have "seen the light". :-)

-Roger

--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, jeff.trujillo@m... wrote:
> Roger, if you read the last posts on this subject you will find
that I
> changed my position on having it a requirement. After listening to
a few
> members, namely Sandee, I totaly agree on the purpose of doing
this. I just
> had a few issues at first but now "I see the light at the end of the
> tunnel". )
>
> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> Field Service Representative
> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> jeff.trujillo@m...
> Voice480)346-6249
> Fax480)346-6813
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tomas2691 [mailto:tomasr@a...]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 2:58 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> Jeff,
>
> I don't think it's like telling them they have to receive spam. I
> think it's telling them they have to be responsible and that's
> perfectly appropriate.
>
> -Roger
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, jeff.trujillo@m... wrote:
> > Mike, I think thats a little harsh "If they don't want the
> > land-use info, then they can leave." It would be different if we
> were all
> > paying dues or something. But were not, so to tell them they have
> to receive
> > land use emails is like telling them they have to receive spam.
> > <snip>


80760 From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 2:55pm
Subject: Re: six inch lift leaf springs for 94 yj


Assuming you want SUA springs, you'll have to go with custom
springs. National and Alcan both have good reputations.

If you don't need to go quite that tall, the RE 4.5" Extreme Duty kit
is supposed to be very good.

And, of course, a SOA conversion will net you about 5-6" of lift.

-Roger

--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "intertwingled" <intertwingled@q...>
wrote:
>
> Anyone know who might carry six inch lift kit leaf
> springs for a 94 YJ?
>
> Thanks,
> Tony
>
>
> --
> even the safest course is fraught with peril


80761 From: The Acuna Family <mkacuna@c...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 3:12pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2" is just not enough!!!


Couldn't he add 1 3/4" spacers and be able to run 33's?

Mike
98 ZJ