80712-80736

80712 From: Michael Chatfield <Mike@A...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 9:52am
Subject: RE: Draft a Welcome Letter.


I will however put it to a vote....
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Michael Chatfield" <Mike@A...>
Reply-To: <Mike@a...>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:51:17 -0700

>No the intent is to constantly inform the membership of Land Use Issues. What I'm refering to here is:
>
>1. Land Use Meetings.
>2. Letter Writing Campaigns.
>3. Clean Ups.
>
>The way I am writing the software is that every member of the AzVJC website will recieve these e-mails. The only way for them to not recieve the e-mails is to unsubscribe (become a non-member). PERIOD.
>
>
>
>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@j...>
>Reply-To: <Joe-CJ7@J...>
>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:19:01 -0700
>
>>Clint,
>>
>>I think that an organized club where you pay dues and all of that then what
>>you are saying would be fine. But this is the AZVJC and I do not feel this
>>is the place for that.
>>
>>A 1 time informational email when joining would be great and even have a
>>place on the web site for land use issues but an email to all members all of
>>the time is not my choice.
>>
>>I veto that idea, do I have vetoe power? <grin>
>>
>>BTW, Clint thanks for your opinion.
>>
>>Joe Kearney
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Clint Ramsey [mailto:cwramsey@t...]
>>Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:13 AM
>>To: Joe-CJ7@J...; jeff.trujillo@m...;
>>az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>>
>>
>>My opinion, pound them with land use email. Make sure every member has
>>knowledge of what is going on in the state. If they don't like it boot
>>them. If they want to join AZVJC and have the sticker on their Jeep
>>then they can put up with the land use emails.
>>
>>Clint Ramsey
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Joe Kearney [mailto:Joe-CJ7@j...]
>>Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:03 AM
>>To: jeff.trujillo@m...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>>
>>Jeff,
>>
>>Mike can correct me if I am wrong, but I think that it is not going to
>>be
>>ongoing landuse issue emails but just the first one explaing some of our
>>beleifs. I did not read that there were going to be ongoing landuse
>>emails.
>>
>>Correct Mike?
>>
>>Joe Kearney
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: jeff.trujillo@m...
>>[mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
>>Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 9:57 AM
>>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>>
>>
>>Mike, I think thats a little harsh "If they don't want the
>>land-use info, then they can leave." It would be different if we were
>>all
>>paying dues or something. But were not, so to tell them they have to
>>receive
>>land use emails is like telling them they have to receive spam. I'm all
>>for
>>receiving them but I am also thinking of others that may not feel the
>>same
>>way. As we all appreciate what you are doing I just feel (in my own
>>opinion)
>>that we (AZVJC) should not force certain emails on any of the members.
>>"flamesuit on" I think we should have a poll to find out what the
>>members
>>feel. Thanks for reading my .05
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: intertwingled [mailto:intertwingled@q...]
>>Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:24 AM
>>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>>
>>
>>>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:58:22 -0700
>>>To: <Mike@a...>
>>>From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
>>>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>>>In-Reply-To: <200303170907.AA1507532@a...>
>>>
>>>
>>>No, I don't want to leave. I just thought that the only requirement
>>>to be a member of AZVJC was to sign up on the Yahoo Groups mailing
>>list.
>>>I will sign up on the web site post-haste. =)
>>>
>>>Tony
>>>
>>
>>And also, just to clarify, I want to ask again what the requirements
>>are and or will be to be a "member" of azvjc? I do consider myself
>>a member.
>>
>>Tony
>>
>>>At 09:07 AM 3/17/03 -0700, you wrote:
>>>>Currently the website will allow you to join without requiring you to
>>be
>>a member of the mailing list. And it does not verify the e-mail address
>>so
>>a "new" member could put Nobody@H... and the website will accept
>>that.
>>>>
>>>>The new website will require a valid e-mail address so that we can
>>send
>>out land-use information to everyone in the club. If they don't want
>>the
>>land-use info, then they can leave.
>>>>
>>>>- Mike
>>>>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>>>>From: "intertwingled" <intertwingled@q...>
>>>>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:32:28 -0700
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I thought the only requirement to be a member of the club was
>>>>>to sign up on the yahoo mailing list? Doesn't that already
>>>>>require a valid email address? Are we changing lists, or what?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>--
>>even the safest course is fraught with peril
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>----
>>The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
>>which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
>>material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
>>taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
>>entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
>>MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error,
>>please
>>contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
>>
>>
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


ADVERTISEMENT




80713 From: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 9:54am
Subject: New poll for az_vjc


Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
az_vjc group:

For the new website software, should
all members be required to receive
land use meeting, letter writing
campaign and clean up information?

o Yes. Absolutely.
o No. We want a new webmaster.


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/az_vjc/surveys?id=1049430

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Autos
web site listed above.

Thanks!


80714 From: Clint Ramsey <cwramsey@t...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 9:54am
Subject: RE: Draft a Welcome Letter.


I'm not saying all the land use email, but with everything we as a club
do I think that someone who wants to join should be willing to receive,
say, original meeting announcements and maybe closure notices. Like you
said we're not organized and don't pay any dues, but we do have a
reputation for involvement and all our members should at least know what
is going on.

Clint Ramsey

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Kearney [mailto:Joe-CJ7@J...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:19 AM
To: Clint Ramsey; jeff.trujillo@m...;
az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.

Clint,

I think that an organized club where you pay dues and all of that then
what
you are saying would be fine. But this is the AZVJC and I do not feel
this
is the place for that.

A 1 time informational email when joining would be great and even have a
place on the web site for land use issues but an email to all members
all of
the time is not my choice.

I veto that idea, do I have vetoe power? <grin>

BTW, Clint thanks for your opinion.

Joe Kearney

>At 09:07 AM 3/17/03 -0700, you wrote:
>>Currently the website will allow you to join without requiring you to
be
a member of the mailing list. And it does not verify the e-mail address
so
a "new" member could put Nobody@H... and the website will accept
that.
>>
>>The new website will require a valid e-mail address so that we can
send
out land-use information to everyone in the club. If they don't want
the
land-use info, then they can leave.
>>
>>- Mike
>>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>>From: "intertwingled" <intertwingled@q...>
>>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:32:28 -0700
>>
>>>
>>>I thought the only requirement to be a member of the club was
>>>to sign up on the yahoo mailing list? Doesn't that already
>>>require a valid email address? Are we changing lists, or what?
>>>


80715 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 9:50am
Subject: RE: Draft a Welcome Letter.


Maybe the "words" could re=read.................. "if they don't want the
land-use info, they can "hit the delete key". The land use info is NOT spam
and the sooner ALL OHV recreationists accept this the sooner we can start
WINNING some of the battles. As it stands right now we've LOST the
Jawbreaker Appeal .................. that's most likely just the "beginning
to the end" unless EVERYONE gets involved. Enough of my bandwagon but 12-15
members getting involved is not enough. I applaud Mike for his stand and
very much appreciate the help!!!!

Sandee

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jeff.trujillo@m...
> [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 9:57 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> Mike, I think thats a little harsh "If they don't want the
> land-use info, then they can leave." It would be different if we were all
> paying dues or something. But were not, so to tell them they have
> to receive
> land use emails is like telling them they have to receive spam.
> I'm all for
> receiving them but I am also thinking of others that may not feel the same
> way. As we all appreciate what you are doing I just feel (in my
> own opinion)
> that we (AZVJC) should not force certain emails on any of the members.
> "flamesuit on" I think we should have a poll to find out what the members
> feel. Thanks for reading my .05
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: intertwingled [mailto:intertwingled@q...]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:24 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> >Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:58:22 -0700
> >To: <Mike@a...>
> >From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> >In-Reply-To: <200303170907.AA1507532@a...>
> >
> >
> >No, I don't want to leave. I just thought that the only requirement
> >to be a member of AZVJC was to sign up on the Yahoo Groups mailing list.
> >I will sign up on the web site post-haste. =)
> >
> >Tony
> >
>
> And also, just to clarify, I want to ask again what the requirements
> are and or will be to be a "member" of azvjc? I do consider myself
> a member.
>
> Tony
>
> >At 09:07 AM 3/17/03 -0700, you wrote:
> >>Currently the website will allow you to join without requiring you to be
> a member of the mailing list. And it does not verify the e-mail
> address so
> a "new" member could put Nobody@H... and the website will accept that.
> >>
> >>The new website will require a valid e-mail address so that we can send
> out land-use information to everyone in the club. If they don't want the
> land-use info, then they can leave.
> >>
> >>- Mike
> >>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> >>From: "intertwingled" <intertwingled@q...>
> >>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:32:28 -0700
> >>
> >>>
> >>>I thought the only requirement to be a member of the club was
> >>>to sign up on the yahoo mailing list? Doesn't that already
> >>>require a valid email address? Are we changing lists, or what?
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
> --
> even the safest course is fraught with peril
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> error, please
> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


80716 From: Brandon Reid <mikdiamon@s...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:03am
Subject: Re: New poll for az_vjc


lol nice poll, reminds me of when my wife asked me if I wanna cook
dinner.... or sleep on the couch
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, az_vjc@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> az_vjc group:
>
> For the new website software, should
> all members be required to receive
> land use meeting, letter writing
> campaign and clean up information?
>
> o Yes. Absolutely.
> o No. We want a new webmaster.
>
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/az_vjc/surveys?id=1049430
>
> Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Autos
> web site listed above.
>
> Thanks!


80717 From: Brandon Reid <mikdiamon@s...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:05am
Subject: Re: Draft a Welcome Letter.


I agree everyone needs to be informed, I was a member about 8 months
before I started reading the message board regularly, and would have
liked being aware of land use issues, cleanups ect.

Brandon

--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee McCullen" <mccullen@c...>
wrote:
> Maybe the "words" could re=read.................. "if they don't
want the
> land-use info, they can "hit the delete key". The land use info is
NOT spam
> and the sooner ALL OHV recreationists accept this the sooner we can
start
> WINNING some of the battles. As it stands right now we've LOST the
> Jawbreaker Appeal .................. that's most likely just
the "beginning
> to the end" unless EVERYONE gets involved. Enough of my bandwagon
but 12-15
> members getting involved is not enough. I applaud Mike for his
stand and
> very much appreciate the help!!!!
>
> Sandee
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jeff.trujillo@m...
> > [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 9:57 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> >
> >
> > Mike, I think thats a little harsh "If they don't want the
> > land-use info, then they can leave." It would be different if we
were all
> > paying dues or something. But were not, so to tell them they have
> > to receive
> > land use emails is like telling them they have to receive spam.
> > I'm all for
> > receiving them but I am also thinking of others that may not feel
the same
> > way. As we all appreciate what you are doing I just feel (in my
> > own opinion)
> > that we (AZVJC) should not force certain emails on any of the
members.
> > "flamesuit on" I think we should have a poll to find out what the
members
> > feel. Thanks for reading my .05
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: intertwingled [mailto:intertwingled@q...]
> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:24 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> >
> >
> > >Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:58:22 -0700
> > >To: <Mike@a...>
> > >From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> > >In-Reply-To: <200303170907.AA1507532@a...>
> > >
> > >
> > >No, I don't want to leave. I just thought that the only
requirement
> > >to be a member of AZVJC was to sign up on the Yahoo Groups
mailing list.
> > >I will sign up on the web site post-haste. =)
> > >
> > >Tony
> > >
> >
> > And also, just to clarify, I want to ask again what the
requirements
> > are and or will be to be a "member" of azvjc? I do consider
myself
> > a member.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > >At 09:07 AM 3/17/03 -0700, you wrote:
> > >>Currently the website will allow you to join without requiring
you to be
> > a member of the mailing list. And it does not verify the e-mail
> > address so
> > a "new" member could put Nobody@H... and the website will accept
that.
> > >>
> > >>The new website will require a valid e-mail address so that we
can send
> > out land-use information to everyone in the club. If they don't
want the
> > land-use info, then they can leave.
> > >>
> > >>- Mike
> > >>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> > >>From: "intertwingled" <intertwingled@q...>
> > >>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:32:28 -0700
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>I thought the only requirement to be a member of the club was
> > >>>to sign up on the yahoo mailing list? Doesn't that already
> > >>>require a valid email address? Are we changing lists, or what?
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> > --
> > even the safest course is fraught with peril
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----------
> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
entity to
> > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
privileged
> > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
of, or
> > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
persons or
> > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> > error, please
> > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
computer..
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >


80718 From: <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:14am
Subject: RE: Draft a Welcome Letter.


Sandee, bad choice of words sorry, land use issues are not SPAM. "I bow my
head and mean no disrespect" ) I just feel that just because someone
doesnt want to recieve certain emails they cant join is BS. I'm all for the
intitial letter to inform them that they must "accept" before they get
accepted to the club. I have been to many cleanups and will continue to do
so and also write letters for land use issues. That is not what AZVJC is all
about. How about when you sign up for the emails, how we do it now, that
there can be an added block "recieve land use issue emails". Like I said
before, I will choose to recieve them but to force them on everyone in order
for them to join is not good.


Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice480)346-6249
Fax480)346-6813


-----Original Message-----
From: Sandee McCullen [mailto:mccullen@c...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:50 AM
To: jeff.trujillo@m...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.


Maybe the "words" could re=read.................. "if they don't want the
land-use info, they can "hit the delete key". The land use info is NOT spam
and the sooner ALL OHV recreationists accept this the sooner we can start
WINNING some of the battles. As it stands right now we've LOST the
Jawbreaker Appeal .................. that's most likely just the "beginning
to the end" unless EVERYONE gets involved. Enough of my bandwagon but 12-15
members getting involved is not enough. I applaud Mike for his stand and
very much appreciate the help!!!!

Sandee

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jeff.trujillo@m...
> [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 9:57 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> Mike, I think thats a little harsh "If they don't want the
> land-use info, then they can leave." It would be different if we were all
> paying dues or something. But were not, so to tell them they have
> to receive
> land use emails is like telling them they have to receive spam.
> I'm all for
> receiving them but I am also thinking of others that may not feel the same
> way. As we all appreciate what you are doing I just feel (in my
> own opinion)
> that we (AZVJC) should not force certain emails on any of the members.
> "flamesuit on" I think we should have a poll to find out what the members
> feel. Thanks for reading my .05
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: intertwingled [mailto:intertwingled@q...]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:24 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> >Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:58:22 -0700
> >To: <Mike@a...>
> >From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> >In-Reply-To: <200303170907.AA1507532@a...>
> >
> >
> >No, I don't want to leave. I just thought that the only requirement
> >to be a member of AZVJC was to sign up on the Yahoo Groups mailing list.
> >I will sign up on the web site post-haste. =)
> >
> >Tony
> >
>
> And also, just to clarify, I want to ask again what the requirements
> are and or will be to be a "member" of azvjc? I do consider myself
> a member.
>
> Tony
>
> >At 09:07 AM 3/17/03 -0700, you wrote:
> >>Currently the website will allow you to join without requiring you to be
> a member of the mailing list. And it does not verify the e-mail
> address so
> a "new" member could put Nobody@H... and the website will accept that.
> >>
> >>The new website will require a valid e-mail address so that we can send
> out land-use information to everyone in the club. If they don't want the
> land-use info, then they can leave.
> >>
> >>- Mike
> >>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> >>From: "intertwingled" <intertwingled@q...>
> >>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:32:28 -0700
> >>
> >>>
> >>>I thought the only requirement to be a member of the club was
> >>>to sign up on the yahoo mailing list? Doesn't that already
> >>>require a valid email address? Are we changing lists, or what?
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
> --
> even the safest course is fraught with peril
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> error, please
> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..


80719 From: James Towle <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:19am
Subject: Re: [azbc] Dealer VIN inspection???


I tried to type this before, but it never came through...

You should have Joe W. run a CarFax on the VIN. This could possibly
give you some more information.

--James


--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Kristi" <kristiluv33@m...> wrote:
> It is called a Level 3 inspection. It is only required by the
state if
> the vehicle came in from another state or it is "restored" from a
> salvage. The vehicle can be legally sold w/o the inspection but
not
> registered until the VINs all match up w/each other in the
inspection.
> I would call the inspection station on Broadway & I10 to find out
what's
> up. The state instated a law that was effective approximately
three
> months ago requiring that a dealer informs a buyer before the
purchase
> that it still needs to be inspected, and if it already had been
so, that
> it was originally a salvage title. The reason is, that there has
been a
> history of stolen parts found on vehicles and then the state
confiscates
> the car and then the buyer is stuck trying to get their moneys
back from
> the dealer. It is possible it could be for another reason that I
am
> unaware of, but it is unlikely. I am sure everything will be fine
> 'cause dealers do a lot in checking vehicle history before putting
it
> out on the lot to protect their own necks..
>
> Good luck,
> Jason
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ron Hill [mailtoaparonbo@y...]
> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 9:39 PM
> To: azbackcountry@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [azbc] Dealer VIN inspection???
>
> Hi all,
> I received a strange call the other day and thought I would run it
by
> some people first. We purchased a vehicle about a month ago and
the
> dealership called us and wanted us to bring it back in for a "VIN
> inspection." They said that they are required to do a random
check on
> X number of vehicles. I've never heard of it before and it sounds
to
> me like they didn't check the numbers prior to selling us the
vehicle?
> It wouldn't be a big deal, but they are insistant on doing it this
> week and this week is really busy for me to drive across town and
wait
> if its something that they neglected. Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
> Ron Hill
> Black XJ
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
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80720 From: Dan Dennis <dannpegg@c...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:19am
Subject: 2" is just not enough!!!


Well, we hit the Bill Williams River Wildlife Refuge this weekend. We
put in just on the Parker side of the Bill Williams Bridge, went
through this awesome scenery that makes you forget that your 20 miles
from Hell (Lake Havasu City, for those who have never been here
during the summertime -- 128 degrees is not out of the question!!!)
Anyway, we headed towards Parker on Shea Rd, past the turn-off to get
to Planet Ranch (all graded roads, sucks not to be abled to crawl a
bit) till we got to "The Crossroads" where I probably SHOULD have
made a deal with the Devil...JK) and took a left to head out to
Swansea Ghost Town. Got there, hung out a bit and let my 2 year old
boy run rampant, then got back on the trail to head back. Instead of
going out to Parker, we decided to head back the way we came. Now,
it's always muddy out there, lots of moisture in the earth and plenty
of river crossings. I just HAD to go through the mudhole that NO ONE
EVER goes through!!! I now see why they don't...Hence the subject of
my post, 2" is just not enough!!! See, you all thought I was talking
about my MANHOOD, didn't you?!! I was almost out of the mudhole when
my front diff got high-centered and I was S-T-U-C-K!!!

Needless to say I am now looking to lift my Jeep to 4" at or around
$500. Does anyone have any suggestions as too what I can get for
around that price range? I found a complete Rough Country 4" Lift on
E-Bay for $475. Is this even worth looking at?


TIA,
AZ Treadhead (BRUZR's Daddy)
'97 TJ (BRUZR) in LHC, AZ


80721 From: Rob Williams <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:24am
Subject: Re: Draft a Welcome Letter.


You have to understand that it is vital to everyone in this club
that they be informed of what it going on... the AZVJC is not a club
that meets at Sonic and then hangs out at the car shows every friday
night, we meet and go wheelin... if there is no land to wheel then
there is no reason for this club to exhist! It is not like we send
out land use e-mails several times a day, hell usually its only a
couple times a month at the most. I don't see it to be an issue
getting the e-mail. Just wanted to share my point of view. It will
also keep a lot of the people informed that do not subscribe to the
yahoo mail or visit the messege archive. -Rob



--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, jeff.trujillo@m... wrote:
> Sandee, bad choice of words sorry, land use issues are not
SPAM. "I bow my
> head and mean no disrespect" ) I just feel that just because
someone
> doesnt want to recieve certain emails they cant join is BS. I'm
all for the
> intitial letter to inform them that they must "accept" before they
get
> accepted to the club. I have been to many cleanups and will
continue to do
> so and also write letters for land use issues. That is not what
AZVJC is all
> about. How about when you sign up for the emails, how we do it
now, that
> there can be an added block "recieve land use issue emails". Like
I said
> before, I will choose to recieve them but to force them on
everyone in order
> for them to join is not good.
>
>
> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> Field Service Representative
> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> jeff.trujillo@m...
> Voice480)346-6249
> Fax480)346-6813
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sandee McCullen [mailto:mccullen@c...]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:50 AM
> To: jeff.trujillo@m...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> Maybe the "words" could re=read.................. "if they don't
want the
> land-use info, they can "hit the delete key". The land use info
is NOT spam
> and the sooner ALL OHV recreationists accept this the sooner we
can start
> WINNING some of the battles. As it stands right now we've LOST the
> Jawbreaker Appeal .................. that's most likely just
the "beginning
> to the end" unless EVERYONE gets involved. Enough of my bandwagon
but 12-15
> members getting involved is not enough. I applaud Mike for his
stand and
> very much appreciate the help!!!!
>
> Sandee
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jeff.trujillo@m...
> > [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 9:57 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> >
> >
> > Mike, I think thats a little harsh "If they don't want the
> > land-use info, then they can leave." It would be different if we
were all
> > paying dues or something. But were not, so to tell them they have
> > to receive
> > land use emails is like telling them they have to receive spam.
> > I'm all for
> > receiving them but I am also thinking of others that may not
feel the same
> > way. As we all appreciate what you are doing I just feel (in my
> > own opinion)
> > that we (AZVJC) should not force certain emails on any of the
members.
> > "flamesuit on" I think we should have a poll to find out what
the members
> > feel. Thanks for reading my .05
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: intertwingled [mailto:intertwingled@q...]
> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:24 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> >
> >
> > >Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:58:22 -0700
> > >To: <Mike@a...>
> > >From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> > >In-Reply-To: <200303170907.AA1507532@a...>
> > >
> > >
> > >No, I don't want to leave. I just thought that the only
requirement
> > >to be a member of AZVJC was to sign up on the Yahoo Groups
mailing list.
> > >I will sign up on the web site post-haste. =)
> > >
> > >Tony
> > >
> >
> > And also, just to clarify, I want to ask again what the
requirements
> > are and or will be to be a "member" of azvjc? I do consider
myself
> > a member.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > >At 09:07 AM 3/17/03 -0700, you wrote:
> > >>Currently the website will allow you to join without requiring
you to be
> > a member of the mailing list. And it does not verify the e-mail
> > address so
> > a "new" member could put Nobody@H... and the website will accept
that.
> > >>
> > >>The new website will require a valid e-mail address so that we
can send
> > out land-use information to everyone in the club. If they don't
want the
> > land-use info, then they can leave.
> > >>
> > >>- Mike
> > >>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> > >>From: "intertwingled" <intertwingled@q...>
> > >>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:32:28 -0700
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>I thought the only requirement to be a member of the club was
> > >>>to sign up on the yahoo mailing list? Doesn't that already
> > >>>require a valid email address? Are we changing lists, or
what?
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> > --
> > even the safest course is fraught with peril
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-
> > ----------
> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
entity to
> > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
privileged
> > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other
use of, or
> > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
persons or
> > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> > error, please
> > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
computer..
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
entity to
> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
privileged
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
of, or
> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons
or
> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
error, please
> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
computer..


80722 From: Nichole <cj7wheelin@h...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:34am
Subject: Re: Draft a Welcome Letter.


I agree with Brandon.

It can be time consuming sifting through all the posts on the message
board. Even though I do visit yahoo regularly I can't be sure I get
the important information.

On another note, Mike, will this new 'accepting new members' method
reduce the amount of Spam that we get posted to the message board?

--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Brandon Reid" <mikdiamon@s...> wrote:
> I agree everyone needs to be informed, I was a member about 8
months
> before I started reading the message board regularly, and would
have
> liked being aware of land use issues, cleanups ect.
>
> Brandon


80723 From: Joe Kearney <Joe-CJ7@j...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:40am
Subject: RE: Re: New poll for az_vjc


Brandon,

You are correct it is exactly like that.

What is everybody going to say, no we want a new webmaster? No way. Mike
is too good.

Mike, since you put it that way I will welcome the emails for land use
issues. lol

Joe Kearney

-----Original Message-----
From: Brandon Reid [mailto:mikdiamon@s...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:03 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: New poll for az_vjc


lol nice poll, reminds me of when my wife asked me if I wanna cook
dinner.... or sleep on the couch
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, az_vjc@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> az_vjc group:
>
> For the new website software, should
> all members be required to receive
> land use meeting, letter writing
> campaign and clean up information?
>
> o Yes. Absolutely.
> o No. We want a new webmaster.
>
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/az_vjc/surveys?id=1049430
>
> Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Autos
> web site listed above.
>
> Thanks!




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


80724 From: <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:44am
Subject: RE: Re: New poll for az_vjc


Count me in also, just wanted to voice my opinion. Thanks for listening LOL


Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice480)346-6249
Fax480)346-6813


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Kearney [mailto:Joe-CJ7@j...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:40 AM
To: Brandon Reid; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: New poll for az_vjc


Brandon,

You are correct it is exactly like that.

What is everybody going to say, no we want a new webmaster? No way. Mike
is too good.

Mike, since you put it that way I will welcome the emails for land use
issues. lol

Joe Kearney

-----Original Message-----
From: Brandon Reid [mailto:mikdiamon@s...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:03 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: New poll for az_vjc


lol nice poll, reminds me of when my wife asked me if I wanna cook
dinner.... or sleep on the couch
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, az_vjc@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> az_vjc group:
>
> For the new website software, should
> all members be required to receive
> land use meeting, letter writing
> campaign and clean up information?
>
> o Yes. Absolutely.
> o No. We want a new webmaster.
>
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/az_vjc/surveys?id=1049430
>
> Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Autos
> web site listed above.
>
> Thanks!




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..


80725 From: <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:52am
Subject: RE: Re: New poll for az_vjc


He gets my vote LOL

Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice480)346-6249
Fax480)346-6813


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Kearney [mailto:Joe-CJ7@J...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:51 AM
To: jeff.trujillo@m...
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: New poll for az_vjc


Maybe Mike should work the UN resolutions? He would do better then the
people we have doing them.
Since Mike puts it that way he does not leave a whole lot of choice. lol

jk

-----Original Message-----
From: jeff.trujillo@m...
[mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:44 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: New poll for az_vjc


Count me in also, just wanted to voice my opinion. Thanks for listening LOL


Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice480)346-6249
Fax480)346-6813


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Kearney [mailto:Joe-CJ7@j...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:40 AM
To: Brandon Reid; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: New poll for az_vjc


Brandon,

You are correct it is exactly like that.

What is everybody going to say, no we want a new webmaster? No way. Mike
is too good.

Mike, since you put it that way I will welcome the emails for land use
issues. lol

Joe Kearney

-----Original Message-----
From: Brandon Reid [mailto:mikdiamon@s...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:03 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: New poll for az_vjc


lol nice poll, reminds me of when my wife asked me if I wanna cook
dinner.... or sleep on the couch
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, az_vjc@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> az_vjc group:
>
> For the new website software, should
> all members be required to receive
> land use meeting, letter writing
> campaign and clean up information?
>
> o Yes. Absolutely.
> o No. We want a new webmaster.
>
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/az_vjc/surveys?id=1049430
>
> Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Autos
> web site listed above.
>
> Thanks!




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..


80726 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:54am
Subject: Re: 2" is just not enough!!!


Well, let me play devils advocate for a moment, and ask a question that
perhaps you haven't thought about yet

How would things have been different, if you had a 4" lift then instead of
the 2" lift ??



Fred


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Dennis" <dannpegg@c...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:19 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!


> Well, we hit the Bill Williams River Wildlife Refuge this weekend. We
> put in just on the Parker side of the Bill Williams Bridge, went
> through this awesome scenery that makes you forget that your 20 miles
> from Hell (Lake Havasu City, for those who have never been here
> during the summertime -- 128 degrees is not out of the question!!!)
> Anyway, we headed towards Parker on Shea Rd, past the turn-off to get
> to Planet Ranch (all graded roads, sucks not to be abled to crawl a
> bit) till we got to "The Crossroads" where I probably SHOULD have
> made a deal with the Devil...JK) and took a left to head out to
> Swansea Ghost Town. Got there, hung out a bit and let my 2 year old
> boy run rampant, then got back on the trail to head back. Instead of
> going out to Parker, we decided to head back the way we came. Now,
> it's always muddy out there, lots of moisture in the earth and plenty
> of river crossings. I just HAD to go through the mudhole that NO ONE
> EVER goes through!!! I now see why they don't...Hence the subject of
> my post, 2" is just not enough!!! See, you all thought I was talking
> about my MANHOOD, didn't you?!! I was almost out of the mudhole when
> my front diff got high-centered and I was S-T-U-C-K!!!
>
> Needless to say I am now looking to lift my Jeep to 4" at or around
> $500. Does anyone have any suggestions as too what I can get for
> around that price range? I found a complete Rough Country 4" Lift on
> E-Bay for $475. Is this even worth looking at?
>
>
> TIA,
> AZ Treadhead (BRUZR's Daddy)
> '97 TJ (BRUZR) in LHC, AZ
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


80727 From: <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:57am
Subject: RE: 2" is just not enough!!!


He would have room for bigger tires to get the diff off the rocks LOL

Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice480)346-6249
Fax480)346-6813


-----Original Message-----
From: FredTJ [mailto:fredtj@c...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:54 AM
To: Dan Dennis; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!


Well, let me play devils advocate for a moment, and ask a question that
perhaps you haven't thought about yet

How would things have been different, if you had a 4" lift then instead of
the 2" lift ??



Fred


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Dennis" <dannpegg@c...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:19 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!


> Well, we hit the Bill Williams River Wildlife Refuge this weekend. We
> put in just on the Parker side of the Bill Williams Bridge, went
> through this awesome scenery that makes you forget that your 20 miles
> from Hell (Lake Havasu City, for those who have never been here
> during the summertime -- 128 degrees is not out of the question!!!)
> Anyway, we headed towards Parker on Shea Rd, past the turn-off to get
> to Planet Ranch (all graded roads, sucks not to be abled to crawl a
> bit) till we got to "The Crossroads" where I probably SHOULD have
> made a deal with the Devil...JK) and took a left to head out to
> Swansea Ghost Town. Got there, hung out a bit and let my 2 year old
> boy run rampant, then got back on the trail to head back. Instead of
> going out to Parker, we decided to head back the way we came. Now,
> it's always muddy out there, lots of moisture in the earth and plenty
> of river crossings. I just HAD to go through the mudhole that NO ONE
> EVER goes through!!! I now see why they don't...Hence the subject of
> my post, 2" is just not enough!!! See, you all thought I was talking
> about my MANHOOD, didn't you?!! I was almost out of the mudhole when
> my front diff got high-centered and I was S-T-U-C-K!!!
>
> Needless to say I am now looking to lift my Jeep to 4" at or around
> $500. Does anyone have any suggestions as too what I can get for
> around that price range? I found a complete Rough Country 4" Lift on
> E-Bay for $475. Is this even worth looking at?
>
>
> TIA,
> AZ Treadhead (BRUZR's Daddy)
> '97 TJ (BRUZR) in LHC, AZ
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..


80728 From: Judy RAYA <jhraya@m...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 11:02am
Subject: Re: Draft a Welcome Letter.


First of all Sandee Wrote:

The land use info is NOT spam
and the sooner ALL OHV recreationists accept this the sooner we can start
WINNING some of the battles.

That says NOT SPAM!

Second of all these Land Use Issues have to do with the activity we are all involved in rather, you pay dues ,not pay dues, Organized, not Organized, Whatever.. Im sick and tired of all the complaining and nobody wanting to step up to the plate and do anything about it expect whine about it and NO Im not talking about ALL the AZVJC members.
If you donít care if you get the e-mails one way or another why are you making such an issue of it? If one Land use e-mail educates one person, and gets one more letter or e-mail written and it keeps another Trail from being closed then whats the harm. Lets not forget we can all use the Delete Key which is probably being used more than it use to around here..
If anybody is that adamant about not receiving Land Use Issue E-mails, that they can delete without reading, then they donít belong in an organized or unorganized group, as far as I'm concerned.

" If you think keeping your rights is a hard thing, try getting them back after their lost"

Judy Raya
TRR- Secretary



----- Original Message -----
From: <jeff.trujillo@mdhelicopters.com>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:14 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.


> Sandee, bad choice of words sorry, land use issues are not SPAM. "I bow my
> head and mean no disrespect" ) I just feel that just because someone
> doesnt want to recieve certain emails they cant join is BS. I'm all for
the
> intitial letter to inform them that they must "accept" before they get
> accepted to the club. I have been to many cleanups and will continue to do
> so and also write letters for land use issues. That is not what AZVJC is
all
> about. How about when you sign up for the emails, how we do it now, that
> there can be an added block "recieve land use issue emails". Like I said
> before, I will choose to recieve them but to force them on everyone in
order
> for them to join is not good.
>
>
> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> Field Service Representative
> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> jeff.trujillo@mdhelicopters.com
> Voice480)346-6249
> Fax480)346-6813
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sandee McCullen [mailto:mccullen@cableaz.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:50 AM
> To: jeff.trujillo@mdhelicopters.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
>
>
> Maybe the "words" could re=read.................. "if they don't want the
> land-use info, they can "hit the delete key". The land use info is NOT
spam
> and the sooner ALL OHV recreationists accept this the sooner we can start
> WINNING some of the battles. As it stands right now we've LOST the
> Jawbreaker Appeal .................. that's most likely just the
"beginning
> to the end" unless EVERYONE gets involved. Enough of my bandwagon but
12-15
> members getting involved is not enough. I applaud Mike for his stand and
> very much appreciate the help!!!!
>
> Sandee
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jeff.trujillo@mdhelicopters.com
> > [mailto:jeff.trujillo@mdhelicopters.com]
> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 9:57 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> >
> >
> > Mike, I think thats a little harsh "If they don't want the
> > land-use info, then they can leave." It would be different if we were
all
> > paying dues or something. But were not, so to tell them they have
> > to receive
> > land use emails is like telling them they have to receive spam.
> > I'm all for
> > receiving them but I am also thinking of others that may not feel the
same
> > way. As we all appreciate what you are doing I just feel (in my
> > own opinion)
> > that we (AZVJC) should not force certain emails on any of the members.
> > "flamesuit on" I think we should have a poll to find out what the
members
> > feel. Thanks for reading my .05
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: intertwingled [mailto:intertwingled@qwest.net]
> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:24 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> >
> >
> > >Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:58:22 -0700
> > >To: <Mike@azchatfield.net>
> > >From: intertwingled <intertwingled@qwest.net>
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Draft a Welcome Letter.
> > >In-Reply-To: <200303170907.AA1507532@azchatfield.net>
> > >
> > >
> > >No, I don't want to leave. I just thought that the only requirement
> > >to be a member of AZVJC was to sign up on the Yahoo Groups mailing
list.
> > >I will sign up on the web site post-haste. =)
> > >
> > >Tony
> > >
> >
> > And also, just to clarify, I want to ask again what the requirements
> > are and or will be to be a "member" of azvjc? I do consider myself
> > a member.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > >At 09:07 AM 3/17/03 -0700, you wrote:
> > >>Currently the website will allow you to join without requiring you to
be
> > a member of the mailing list. And it does not verify the e-mail
> > address so
> > a "new" member could put Nobody@Home.com and the website will accept
that.
> > >>
> > >>The new website will require a valid e-mail address so that we can
send
> > out land-use information to everyone in the club. If they don't want
the
> > land-use info, then they can leave.
> > >>
> > >>- Mike
> > >>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> > >>From: "intertwingled" <intertwingled@qwest.net>
> > >>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:32:28 -0700
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>I thought the only requirement to be a member of the club was
> > >>>to sign up on the yahoo mailing list? Doesn't that already
> > >>>require a valid email address? Are we changing lists, or what?
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> > --
> > even the safest course is fraught with peril
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----------
> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
> > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
> > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
> > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> > error, please
> > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error,
please
> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>



80729 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 11:07am
Subject: Re: 2" is just not enough!!!


That's *exactly* what I'm getting at.
A suspension lift, in itself, with nothing else, does nothing except raise
the center of gravity..
A suspension lift should only be enough to allow clearance for whatever
tires one wishes to run.
Since no mention was made, in the original post, of larger tires, it seems
like someone is thinking that the suspension lift would help because they
would be further off the ground.
Well, the COG would have been higher, but the diffs would not be..
The goal is really, the least amount of lift possible (but a quality lift,
with good arms, etc, so as not to bind up flex) to fit whatever sized tires
one wants/requires.
Anymore lift than that, and one is just really raising the COG for, IMHO,
good reason.
I've just recently dropped the amount of lift that I'm running, just for the
reasons already stated.
It really helps, off road, around here, to keep the COG as low as possible



Fred



----- Original Message -----
From: <jeff.trujillo@m...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:57 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!


> He would have room for bigger tires to get the diff off the rocks LOL
>
> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> Field Service Representative
> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> jeff.trujillo@m...
> Voice480)346-6249
> Fax480)346-6813
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: FredTJ [mailto:fredtj@c...]
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:54 AM
> To: Dan Dennis; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!
>
>
> Well, let me play devils advocate for a moment, and ask a question that
> perhaps you haven't thought about yet
>
> How would things have been different, if you had a 4" lift then instead of
> the 2" lift ??
>
>
>
> Fred
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Dennis" <dannpegg@c...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:19 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!
>
>
> > Well, we hit the Bill Williams River Wildlife Refuge this weekend. We
> > put in just on the Parker side of the Bill Williams Bridge, went
> > through this awesome scenery that makes you forget that your 20 miles
> > from Hell (Lake Havasu City, for those who have never been here
> > during the summertime -- 128 degrees is not out of the question!!!)
> > Anyway, we headed towards Parker on Shea Rd, past the turn-off to get
> > to Planet Ranch (all graded roads, sucks not to be abled to crawl a
> > bit) till we got to "The Crossroads" where I probably SHOULD have
> > made a deal with the Devil...JK) and took a left to head out to
> > Swansea Ghost Town. Got there, hung out a bit and let my 2 year old
> > boy run rampant, then got back on the trail to head back. Instead of
> > going out to Parker, we decided to head back the way we came. Now,
> > it's always muddy out there, lots of moisture in the earth and plenty
> > of river crossings. I just HAD to go through the mudhole that NO ONE
> > EVER goes through!!! I now see why they don't...Hence the subject of
> > my post, 2" is just not enough!!! See, you all thought I was talking
> > about my MANHOOD, didn't you?!! I was almost out of the mudhole when
> > my front diff got high-centered and I was S-T-U-C-K!!!
> >
> > Needless to say I am now looking to lift my Jeep to 4" at or around
> > $500. Does anyone have any suggestions as too what I can get for
> > around that price range? I found a complete Rough Country 4" Lift on
> > E-Bay for $475. Is this even worth looking at?
> >
> >
> > TIA,
> > AZ Treadhead (BRUZR's Daddy)
> > '97 TJ (BRUZR) in LHC, AZ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error,
please
> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


80730 From: Dan Dennis <dannpegg@c...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 11:07am
Subject: Re: 2" is just not enough!!!


If I had a 4" lift, I would be able to fit some bigger tires under it
and I wouldn't bottom out.

--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "FredTJ" <fredtj@c...> wrote:
> Well, let me play devils advocate for a moment, and ask a question
that
> perhaps you haven't thought about yet
>
> How would things have been different, if you had a 4" lift then
instead of
> the 2" lift ??
>
>
>
> Fred
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Dennis" <dannpegg@c...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:19 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!
>
>
> > Well, we hit the Bill Williams River Wildlife Refuge this
weekend. We
> > put in just on the Parker side of the Bill Williams Bridge, went
> > through this awesome scenery that makes you forget that your 20
miles
> > from Hell (Lake Havasu City, for those who have never been here
> > during the summertime -- 128 degrees is not out of the
question!!!)
> > Anyway, we headed towards Parker on Shea Rd, past the turn-off to
get
> > to Planet Ranch (all graded roads, sucks not to be abled to crawl
a
> > bit) till we got to "The Crossroads" where I probably SHOULD have
> > made a deal with the Devil...JK) and took a left to head out to
> > Swansea Ghost Town. Got there, hung out a bit and let my 2 year
old
> > boy run rampant, then got back on the trail to head back. Instead
of
> > going out to Parker, we decided to head back the way we came. Now,
> > it's always muddy out there, lots of moisture in the earth and
plenty
> > of river crossings. I just HAD to go through the mudhole that NO
ONE
> > EVER goes through!!! I now see why they don't...Hence the subject
of
> > my post, 2" is just not enough!!! See, you all thought I was
talking
> > about my MANHOOD, didn't you?!! I was almost out of the mudhole
when
> > my front diff got high-centered and I was S-T-U-C-K!!!
> >
> > Needless to say I am now looking to lift my Jeep to 4" at or
around
> > $500. Does anyone have any suggestions as too what I can get for
> > around that price range? I found a complete Rough Country 4" Lift
on
> > E-Bay for $475. Is this even worth looking at?
> >
> >
> > TIA,
> > AZ Treadhead (BRUZR's Daddy)
> > '97 TJ (BRUZR) in LHC, AZ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >


80731 From: Dan Dennis <dannpegg@c...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 11:11am
Subject: Re: 2" is just not enough!!!


Oh, I agree 100% on the COG issue. I just forgot to mention the "WHY"
I want to go with the 4"...I will end up putting some 33X12.50's on
my 15X8 Rockcrawlers, most definitely.


--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "FredTJ" <fredtj@c...> wrote:
> That's *exactly* what I'm getting at.
> A suspension lift, in itself, with nothing else, does nothing
except raise
> the center of gravity..
> A suspension lift should only be enough to allow clearance for
whatever
> tires one wishes to run.
> Since no mention was made, in the original post, of larger tires,
it seems
> like someone is thinking that the suspension lift would help
because they
> would be further off the ground.
> Well, the COG would have been higher, but the diffs would not be..
> The goal is really, the least amount of lift possible (but a
quality lift,
> with good arms, etc, so as not to bind up flex) to fit whatever
sized tires
> one wants/requires.
> Anymore lift than that, and one is just really raising the COG for,
IMHO,
> good reason.
> I've just recently dropped the amount of lift that I'm running,
just for the
> reasons already stated.
> It really helps, off road, around here, to keep the COG as low as
possible
>
>
>
> Fred
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <jeff.trujillo@m...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:57 AM
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!
>
>
> > He would have room for bigger tires to get the diff off the
rocks LOL
> >
> > Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > Field Service Representative
> > MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > jeff.trujillo@m...
> > Voice480)346-6249
> > Fax480)346-6813
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: FredTJ [mailto:fredtj@c...]
> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:54 AM
> > To: Dan Dennis; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!
> >
> >
> > Well, let me play devils advocate for a moment, and ask a
question that
> > perhaps you haven't thought about yet
> >
> > How would things have been different, if you had a 4" lift then
instead of
> > the 2" lift ??
> >
> >
> >
> > Fred
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dan Dennis" <dannpegg@c...>
> > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:19 AM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!
> >
> >
> > > Well, we hit the Bill Williams River Wildlife Refuge this
weekend. We
> > > put in just on the Parker side of the Bill Williams Bridge, went
> > > through this awesome scenery that makes you forget that your 20
miles
> > > from Hell (Lake Havasu City, for those who have never been here
> > > during the summertime -- 128 degrees is not out of the
question!!!)
> > > Anyway, we headed towards Parker on Shea Rd, past the turn-off
to get
> > > to Planet Ranch (all graded roads, sucks not to be abled to
crawl a
> > > bit) till we got to "The Crossroads" where I probably SHOULD
have
> > > made a deal with the Devil...JK) and took a left to head out to
> > > Swansea Ghost Town. Got there, hung out a bit and let my 2 year
old
> > > boy run rampant, then got back on the trail to head back.
Instead of
> > > going out to Parker, we decided to head back the way we came.
Now,
> > > it's always muddy out there, lots of moisture in the earth and
plenty
> > > of river crossings. I just HAD to go through the mudhole that
NO ONE
> > > EVER goes through!!! I now see why they don't...Hence the
subject of
> > > my post, 2" is just not enough!!! See, you all thought I was
talking
> > > about my MANHOOD, didn't you?!! I was almost out of the mudhole
when
> > > my front diff got high-centered and I was S-T-U-C-K!!!
> > >
> > > Needless to say I am now looking to lift my Jeep to 4" at or
around
> > > $500. Does anyone have any suggestions as too what I can get for
> > > around that price range? I found a complete Rough Country 4"
Lift on
> > > E-Bay for $475. Is this even worth looking at?
> > >
> > >
> > > TIA,
> > > AZ Treadhead (BRUZR's Daddy)
> > > '97 TJ (BRUZR) in LHC, AZ
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> --
> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
entity to
> > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
privileged
> > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
of, or
> > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
persons or
> > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
error,
> please
> > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
computer..
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >


80732 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 11:16am
Subject: Re: Re: 2" is just not enough!!!


That's what I was getting at
You didn't mention that in your original post
What size tires are you running now, and what kind of Jeep do you have ??



Fred


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Dennis" <dannpegg@c...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 12:07 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: 2" is just not enough!!!


> If I had a 4" lift, I would be able to fit some bigger tires under it
> and I wouldn't bottom out.
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "FredTJ" <fredtj@c...> wrote:
> > Well, let me play devils advocate for a moment, and ask a question
> that
> > perhaps you haven't thought about yet
> >
> > How would things have been different, if you had a 4" lift then
> instead of
> > the 2" lift ??
> >
> >
> >
> > Fred
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dan Dennis" <dannpegg@c...>
> > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:19 AM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!
> >
> >
> > > Well, we hit the Bill Williams River Wildlife Refuge this
> weekend. We
> > > put in just on the Parker side of the Bill Williams Bridge, went
> > > through this awesome scenery that makes you forget that your 20
> miles
> > > from Hell (Lake Havasu City, for those who have never been here
> > > during the summertime -- 128 degrees is not out of the
> question!!!)
> > > Anyway, we headed towards Parker on Shea Rd, past the turn-off to
> get
> > > to Planet Ranch (all graded roads, sucks not to be abled to crawl
> a
> > > bit) till we got to "The Crossroads" where I probably SHOULD have
> > > made a deal with the Devil...JK) and took a left to head out to
> > > Swansea Ghost Town. Got there, hung out a bit and let my 2 year
> old
> > > boy run rampant, then got back on the trail to head back. Instead
> of
> > > going out to Parker, we decided to head back the way we came. Now,
> > > it's always muddy out there, lots of moisture in the earth and
> plenty
> > > of river crossings. I just HAD to go through the mudhole that NO
> ONE
> > > EVER goes through!!! I now see why they don't...Hence the subject
> of
> > > my post, 2" is just not enough!!! See, you all thought I was
> talking
> > > about my MANHOOD, didn't you?!! I was almost out of the mudhole
> when
> > > my front diff got high-centered and I was S-T-U-C-K!!!
> > >
> > > Needless to say I am now looking to lift my Jeep to 4" at or
> around
> > > $500. Does anyone have any suggestions as too what I can get for
> > > around that price range? I found a complete Rough Country 4" Lift
> on
> > > E-Bay for $475. Is this even worth looking at?
> > >
> > >
> > > TIA,
> > > AZ Treadhead (BRUZR's Daddy)
> > > '97 TJ (BRUZR) in LHC, AZ
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


80733 From: Dan Dennis <dannpegg@c...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 11:18am
Subject: Re: 2" is just not enough!!!


1997 4-banger TJ running 31X11.5 Pro Comp M/T's on 15X8 steel
Rockcrawlers.

--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "FredTJ" <fredtj@c...> wrote:
> That's what I was getting at
> You didn't mention that in your original post
> What size tires are you running now, and what kind of Jeep do you
have ??
>
>
>
> Fred
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Dennis" <dannpegg@c...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 12:07 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: 2" is just not enough!!!
>
>
> > If I had a 4" lift, I would be able to fit some bigger tires
under it
> > and I wouldn't bottom out.
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "FredTJ" <fredtj@c...> wrote:
> > > Well, let me play devils advocate for a moment, and ask a
question
> > that
> > > perhaps you haven't thought about yet
> > >
> > > How would things have been different, if you had a 4" lift then
> > instead of
> > > the 2" lift ??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Fred
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Dan Dennis" <dannpegg@c...>
> > > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:19 AM
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > > Well, we hit the Bill Williams River Wildlife Refuge this
> > weekend. We
> > > > put in just on the Parker side of the Bill Williams Bridge,
went
> > > > through this awesome scenery that makes you forget that your
20
> > miles
> > > > from Hell (Lake Havasu City, for those who have never been
here
> > > > during the summertime -- 128 degrees is not out of the
> > question!!!)
> > > > Anyway, we headed towards Parker on Shea Rd, past the turn-
off to
> > get
> > > > to Planet Ranch (all graded roads, sucks not to be abled to
crawl
> > a
> > > > bit) till we got to "The Crossroads" where I probably SHOULD
have
> > > > made a deal with the Devil...JK) and took a left to head out
to
> > > > Swansea Ghost Town. Got there, hung out a bit and let my 2
year
> > old
> > > > boy run rampant, then got back on the trail to head back.
Instead
> > of
> > > > going out to Parker, we decided to head back the way we came.
Now,
> > > > it's always muddy out there, lots of moisture in the earth and
> > plenty
> > > > of river crossings. I just HAD to go through the mudhole that
NO
> > ONE
> > > > EVER goes through!!! I now see why they don't...Hence the
subject
> > of
> > > > my post, 2" is just not enough!!! See, you all thought I was
> > talking
> > > > about my MANHOOD, didn't you?!! I was almost out of the
mudhole
> > when
> > > > my front diff got high-centered and I was S-T-U-C-K!!!
> > > >
> > > > Needless to say I am now looking to lift my Jeep to 4" at or
> > around
> > > > $500. Does anyone have any suggestions as too what I can get
for
> > > > around that price range? I found a complete Rough Country 4"
Lift
> > on
> > > > E-Bay for $475. Is this even worth looking at?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > TIA,
> > > > AZ Treadhead (BRUZR's Daddy)
> > > > '97 TJ (BRUZR) in LHC, AZ
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >


80734 From: jcteel <jcteel@y...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 11:21am
Subject: Re: 2" is just not enough!!!


If 33" tires is your goal then consider the Rubicon Express 3.5"
Standard Lift Kit. I recently bought one for $440 from
www.allmyneeds.com and the typical price is $490. It's not yet
installed but it should be fine with the 33x12.5" tires I have planned
(2001 TJ). That's about the best price I've found for a good quality
3-4" lift kit. Also don't forget the shocks are usually sold
seperately and run about $100-$125 (or more if you want the best). I
got 4 DT3000 shocks for $120. The other more economical option is a
2" budget boost (~ $200) + a 1" body lift ($100). So it's $300 versus
$540.

Good luck,
John


--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Dennis" <dannpegg@c...> wrote:
> Oh, I agree 100% on the COG issue. I just forgot to mention the
"WHY"
> I want to go with the 4"...I will end up putting some 33X12.50's on
> my 15X8 Rockcrawlers, most definitely.
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "FredTJ" <fredtj@c...> wrote:
> > That's *exactly* what I'm getting at.
> > A suspension lift, in itself, with nothing else, does nothing
> except raise
> > the center of gravity..
> > A suspension lift should only be enough to allow clearance for
> whatever
> > tires one wishes to run.
> > Since no mention was made, in the original post, of larger tires,
> it seems
> > like someone is thinking that the suspension lift would help
> because they
> > would be further off the ground.
> > Well, the COG would have been higher, but the diffs would not be..
> > The goal is really, the least amount of lift possible (but a
> quality lift,
> > with good arms, etc, so as not to bind up flex) to fit whatever
> sized tires
> > one wants/requires.
> > Anymore lift than that, and one is just really raising the COG
for,
> IMHO,
> > good reason.
> > I've just recently dropped the amount of lift that I'm running,
> just for the
> > reasons already stated.
> > It really helps, off road, around here, to keep the COG as low as
> possible
> >
> >
> >
> > Fred
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <jeff.trujillo@m...>
> > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:57 AM
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!
> >
> >
> > > He would have room for bigger tires to get the diff off the
> rocks LOL
> > >
> > > Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > > Field Service Representative
> > > MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > > jeff.trujillo@m...
> > > Voice480)346-6249
> > > Fax480)346-6813
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: FredTJ [mailto:fredtj@c...]
> > > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:54 AM
> > > To: Dan Dennis; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, let me play devils advocate for a moment, and ask a
> question that
> > > perhaps you haven't thought about yet
> > >
> > > How would things have been different, if you had a 4" lift then
> instead of
> > > the 2" lift ??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Fred
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Dan Dennis" <dannpegg@c...>
> > > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:19 AM
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > > Well, we hit the Bill Williams River Wildlife Refuge this
> weekend. We
> > > > put in just on the Parker side of the Bill Williams Bridge,
went
> > > > through this awesome scenery that makes you forget that your
20
> miles
> > > > from Hell (Lake Havasu City, for those who have never been
here
> > > > during the summertime -- 128 degrees is not out of the
> question!!!)
> > > > Anyway, we headed towards Parker on Shea Rd, past the turn-off
> to get
> > > > to Planet Ranch (all graded roads, sucks not to be abled to
> crawl a
> > > > bit) till we got to "The Crossroads" where I probably SHOULD
> have
> > > > made a deal with the Devil...JK) and took a left to head out
to
> > > > Swansea Ghost Town. Got there, hung out a bit and let my 2
year
> old
> > > > boy run rampant, then got back on the trail to head back.
> Instead of
> > > > going out to Parker, we decided to head back the way we came.
> Now,
> > > > it's always muddy out there, lots of moisture in the earth and
> plenty
> > > > of river crossings. I just HAD to go through the mudhole that
> NO ONE
> > > > EVER goes through!!! I now see why they don't...Hence the
> subject of
> > > > my post, 2" is just not enough!!! See, you all thought I was
> talking
> > > > about my MANHOOD, didn't you?!! I was almost out of the
mudhole
> when
> > > > my front diff got high-centered and I was S-T-U-C-K!!!
> > > >
> > > > Needless to say I am now looking to lift my Jeep to 4" at or
> around
> > > > $500. Does anyone have any suggestions as too what I can get
for
> > > > around that price range? I found a complete Rough Country 4"
> Lift on
> > > > E-Bay for $475. Is this even worth looking at?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > TIA,
> > > > AZ Treadhead (BRUZR's Daddy)
> > > > '97 TJ (BRUZR) in LHC, AZ
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
> > --
> > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
> entity to
> > > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> privileged
> > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other
use
> of, or
> > > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
> persons or
> > > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> error,
> > please
> > > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> computer..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >


80735 From: Rob Williams <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 11:25am
Subject: Re: 2" is just not enough!!!


So put a 1" body lift on it and with the 2" spacers you should be
able to fit those 33s... out the other $400 you were willing to
spend towards those 33s!! -Rob


--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Dennis" <dannpegg@c...> wrote:
> Oh, I agree 100% on the COG issue. I just forgot to mention
the "WHY"
> I want to go with the 4"...I will end up putting some 33X12.50's
on
> my 15X8 Rockcrawlers, most definitely.
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "FredTJ" <fredtj@c...> wrote:
> > That's *exactly* what I'm getting at.
> > A suspension lift, in itself, with nothing else, does nothing
> except raise
> > the center of gravity..
> > A suspension lift should only be enough to allow clearance for
> whatever
> > tires one wishes to run.
> > Since no mention was made, in the original post, of larger
tires,
> it seems
> > like someone is thinking that the suspension lift would help
> because they
> > would be further off the ground.
> > Well, the COG would have been higher, but the diffs would not
be..
> > The goal is really, the least amount of lift possible (but a
> quality lift,
> > with good arms, etc, so as not to bind up flex) to fit whatever
> sized tires
> > one wants/requires.
> > Anymore lift than that, and one is just really raising the COG
for,
> IMHO,
> > good reason.
> > I've just recently dropped the amount of lift that I'm running,
> just for the
> > reasons already stated.
> > It really helps, off road, around here, to keep the COG as low
as
> possible
> >
> >
> >
> > Fred
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <jeff.trujillo@m...>
> > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:57 AM
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!
> >
> >
> > > He would have room for bigger tires to get the diff off the
> rocks LOL
> > >
> > > Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > > Field Service Representative
> > > MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > > jeff.trujillo@m...
> > > Voice480)346-6249
> > > Fax480)346-6813
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: FredTJ [mailto:fredtj@c...]
> > > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:54 AM
> > > To: Dan Dennis; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, let me play devils advocate for a moment, and ask a
> question that
> > > perhaps you haven't thought about yet
> > >
> > > How would things have been different, if you had a 4" lift
then
> instead of
> > > the 2" lift ??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Fred
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Dan Dennis" <dannpegg@c...>
> > > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:19 AM
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > > Well, we hit the Bill Williams River Wildlife Refuge this
> weekend. We
> > > > put in just on the Parker side of the Bill Williams Bridge,
went
> > > > through this awesome scenery that makes you forget that your
20
> miles
> > > > from Hell (Lake Havasu City, for those who have never been
here
> > > > during the summertime -- 128 degrees is not out of the
> question!!!)
> > > > Anyway, we headed towards Parker on Shea Rd, past the turn-
off
> to get
> > > > to Planet Ranch (all graded roads, sucks not to be abled to
> crawl a
> > > > bit) till we got to "The Crossroads" where I probably SHOULD
> have
> > > > made a deal with the Devil...JK) and took a left to head out
to
> > > > Swansea Ghost Town. Got there, hung out a bit and let my 2
year
> old
> > > > boy run rampant, then got back on the trail to head back.
> Instead of
> > > > going out to Parker, we decided to head back the way we
came.
> Now,
> > > > it's always muddy out there, lots of moisture in the earth
and
> plenty
> > > > of river crossings. I just HAD to go through the mudhole
that
> NO ONE
> > > > EVER goes through!!! I now see why they don't...Hence the
> subject of
> > > > my post, 2" is just not enough!!! See, you all thought I was
> talking
> > > > about my MANHOOD, didn't you?!! I was almost out of the
mudhole
> when
> > > > my front diff got high-centered and I was S-T-U-C-K!!!
> > > >
> > > > Needless to say I am now looking to lift my Jeep to 4" at or
> around
> > > > $500. Does anyone have any suggestions as too what I can get
for
> > > > around that price range? I found a complete Rough Country 4"
> Lift on
> > > > E-Bay for $475. Is this even worth looking at?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > TIA,
> > > > AZ Treadhead (BRUZR's Daddy)
> > > > '97 TJ (BRUZR) in LHC, AZ
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
---
> --------
> > --
> > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
> entity to
> > > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> privileged
> > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other
use
> of, or
> > > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
> persons or
> > > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> error,
> > please
> > > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> computer..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >


80736 From: Dan Dennis <dannpegg@c...>
Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003 11:27am
Subject: Re: 2" is just not enough!!!


Right now, it already has a 2" Pro Comp suspension lift on it.

--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Williams" <g_rob_williams@y...>
wrote:
> So put a 1" body lift on it and with the 2" spacers you should be
> able to fit those 33s... out the other $400 you were willing to
> spend towards those 33s!! -Rob
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Dennis" <dannpegg@c...> wrote:
> > Oh, I agree 100% on the COG issue. I just forgot to mention
> the "WHY"
> > I want to go with the 4"...I will end up putting some 33X12.50's
> on
> > my 15X8 Rockcrawlers, most definitely.
> >
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "FredTJ" <fredtj@c...> wrote:
> > > That's *exactly* what I'm getting at.
> > > A suspension lift, in itself, with nothing else, does nothing
> > except raise
> > > the center of gravity..
> > > A suspension lift should only be enough to allow clearance for
> > whatever
> > > tires one wishes to run.
> > > Since no mention was made, in the original post, of larger
> tires,
> > it seems
> > > like someone is thinking that the suspension lift would help
> > because they
> > > would be further off the ground.
> > > Well, the COG would have been higher, but the diffs would not
> be..
> > > The goal is really, the least amount of lift possible (but a
> > quality lift,
> > > with good arms, etc, so as not to bind up flex) to fit whatever
> > sized tires
> > > one wants/requires.
> > > Anymore lift than that, and one is just really raising the COG
> for,
> > IMHO,
> > > good reason.
> > > I've just recently dropped the amount of lift that I'm running,
> > just for the
> > > reasons already stated.
> > > It really helps, off road, around here, to keep the COG as low
> as
> > possible
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Fred
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <jeff.trujillo@m...>
> > > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:57 AM
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > > He would have room for bigger tires to get the diff off the
> > rocks LOL
> > > >
> > > > Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > > > Field Service Representative
> > > > MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > > > jeff.trujillo@m...
> > > > Voice480)346-6249
> > > > Fax480)346-6813
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: FredTJ [mailto:fredtj@c...]
> > > > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:54 AM
> > > > To: Dan Dennis; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Well, let me play devils advocate for a moment, and ask a
> > question that
> > > > perhaps you haven't thought about yet
> > > >
> > > > How would things have been different, if you had a 4" lift
> then
> > instead of
> > > > the 2" lift ??
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Fred
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Dan Dennis" <dannpegg@c...>
> > > > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:19 AM
> > > > Subject: [az_vjc] 2" is just not enough!!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Well, we hit the Bill Williams River Wildlife Refuge this
> > weekend. We
> > > > > put in just on the Parker side of the Bill Williams Bridge,
> went
> > > > > through this awesome scenery that makes you forget that
your
> 20
> > miles
> > > > > from Hell (Lake Havasu City, for those who have never been
> here
> > > > > during the summertime -- 128 degrees is not out of the
> > question!!!)
> > > > > Anyway, we headed towards Parker on Shea Rd, past the turn-
> off
> > to get
> > > > > to Planet Ranch (all graded roads, sucks not to be abled to
> > crawl a
> > > > > bit) till we got to "The Crossroads" where I probably
SHOULD
> > have
> > > > > made a deal with the Devil...JK) and took a left to head
out
> to
> > > > > Swansea Ghost Town. Got there, hung out a bit and let my 2
> year
> > old
> > > > > boy run rampant, then got back on the trail to head back.
> > Instead of
> > > > > going out to Parker, we decided to head back the way we
> came.
> > Now,
> > > > > it's always muddy out there, lots of moisture in the earth
> and
> > plenty
> > > > > of river crossings. I just HAD to go through the mudhole
> that
> > NO ONE
> > > > > EVER goes through!!! I now see why they don't...Hence the
> > subject of
> > > > > my post, 2" is just not enough!!! See, you all thought I
was
> > talking
> > > > > about my MANHOOD, didn't you?!! I was almost out of the
> mudhole
> > when
> > > > > my front diff got high-centered and I was S-T-U-C-K!!!
> > > > >
> > > > > Needless to say I am now looking to lift my Jeep to 4" at
or
> > around
> > > > > $500. Does anyone have any suggestions as too what I can
get
> for
> > > > > around that price range? I found a complete Rough Country
4"
> > Lift on
> > > > > E-Bay for $475. Is this even worth looking at?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > TIA,
> > > > > AZ Treadhead (BRUZR's Daddy)
> > > > > '97 TJ (BRUZR) in LHC, AZ
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------
-
> ---
> > --------
> > > --
> > > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person
or
> > entity to
> > > > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> > privileged
> > > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other
> use
> > of, or
> > > > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
> > persons or
> > > > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> > error,
> > > please
> > > > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> > computer..
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >