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jeepsonly
10-12-2005, 08:47 AM
Thanks to Joe West for setting up a place for AZVJC members to donate towards the goal of AZVJC becoming a club member in the AZOHVC (Arizona Off Highway Vehicle Coalition). The AZOHVC is a non-profit Arizona organization that is working to preserve the rights of all OHV recreationalists on public land. It costs $300 annualy for AZVJC to join and we receive 5 club votes (because of our size) on important issues.

Since we seem to have around 100 active members (lots more semi-active), it would only take $3 a piece to cover the membership cost (actually slightly more due to Paypal fees). You can contribute $3 or more by visiting http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/payments.php. Once we have enough money in the pot, we'll join AZOHVC. Any additional money received could go towards next years fees.

Thanks Joe and to all who contribute!

Sedona Jeep School
10-12-2005, 01:09 PM
Woo-hoo! I just donated! It was so easy--thank you Joe West!

We aren't going to let the XJ club put us to shame, are we? Let's see how fast we can reach our $300 membership!

mingoglia
10-12-2005, 01:17 PM
OK, I sent $10, just figured it was a nice even number. :)

Mike

papajeep
10-12-2005, 01:45 PM
WOOO HOOO do we get a sticker?
Just paid mine!

Hackle
10-12-2005, 04:07 PM
I sent my money toward the AZVJC membership. I should be covered now as the AZ RockRats are Charter members and I am a personal Charter member. I have spent two years along with others to get the AZOHVC started. I think this organization can be a large benifit to the OHV users. I hope the AZVJC can put together enough money to be a member.

Just remember the entry fee does not mean you can sit back and let the organization do everything. If we do not show up at meetings the organization will look like they represent people that do not care. Stay or get involved.
Jim F.

Stu Olson
10-12-2005, 07:46 PM
I'm in.....who is next?

bgwhtjp33
10-12-2005, 07:57 PM
I'm in that makes 3 clubs...oops groups that I'm in that are joining

Devil Man
10-12-2005, 08:04 PM
Total Amount: $10.00 USD i am in :D next :confused:

LKD TJ
10-12-2005, 08:07 PM
I'm in, and the next lucky one is ...........

Curly
10-12-2005, 08:30 PM
Me! Ka----Ching.

desertdawg
10-12-2005, 08:36 PM
I'm in! :D

C'mon Let's Gitter Done!

Next?

Joe West
10-12-2005, 08:37 PM
Well gang... the total is at $153 so far... Half way there and a damn site quicker than I expected. I'm in for $10!

Joe

Joe West
10-12-2005, 08:39 PM
I just stuck the thread... it may help keep it on everyone's minds.

Joe

richard
10-12-2005, 08:40 PM
I'm in payed in full :)

LKD TJ
10-12-2005, 08:53 PM
I'm in twice. Come on we are almost there!

Joe West
10-12-2005, 09:01 PM
$200 now...

Travis L Plains has donated $60 of that all by himself (Wish I knew his forum username)!

Outstanding!

Are you guys trying to donate the whole $300 in a single day???
:D

Sheesh... what a group!

LKD TJ
10-12-2005, 09:03 PM
$200 now...

Travis L Plains has donated $60 of that all by himself!

Outstanding!

Are you guys trying to donate the whole $300 in a single day???
:D

Sheesh... what a group!


We have a great group and I am proud to be a part of it!!!!:D :o :D :cool:

desertdawg
10-12-2005, 09:10 PM
You Da Man Travis!:cool:

LKD TJ
10-12-2005, 09:11 PM
You Da Man Travis!:cool:

Thanks, just thought it was a worthy cause!:D

azrubyman
10-12-2005, 09:20 PM
I'm in for 10 bucks and paid.
Ken

Devil Man
10-12-2005, 09:21 PM
Thanks, just thought it was a worthy cause!:D
GREAT JOB :D

LKD TJ
10-12-2005, 09:26 PM
GREAT JOB :D

Thanks Devil Man.
I met you a couple weeks ago at 4 Wheelers. I introduced myself and my TJ was the the lift if that helps with the face.

jim0352
10-12-2005, 10:48 PM
Checks in the mail, or the electrons are on the way, however it works on the interweb. Who will be next?


Jim

RokNRich
10-12-2005, 11:20 PM
Done.

Next.

:cool:

Griswold
10-12-2005, 11:22 PM
we should be done now. nice job everybody.

Joe West
10-13-2005, 04:44 AM
With Brian's (Griswold of Monkeybars) :) $100 Donation, we are over the $350 Mark. Thanks Brian for the huge donation and everyone else who gave to this effort. If the giving continues, the AZVJC will be headed to the Charter Member level.

You guys (and gals) are absolutely amazing.

$350 in less than a day!

Joe

Devil Man
10-13-2005, 05:09 AM
With Brian's (Griswold of Monkeybars) :) $100 Donation, we are over the $350 Mark. Thanks Brian for the huge donation and everyone else who gave to this effort. If the giving continues, the AZVJC will be headed to the Charter Member level.

You guys (and gals) are absolutely amazing.

$350 in less than a day!

Joe
THAT IS GREAT & BRIAN IS THE BEST HE DID NOT EVEN HAVE A JOB EARLIER IN THE WEEK :D YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST :D

Joe West
10-13-2005, 07:45 AM
If someone could let me know when AZOHVC has a paypal account setup, I'll transfer the funds.

If we reach the $450 level, I'll close out the subscription so that people don't continue to give and we can always start a "fund drive" next year to keep our membership open.

Let's try and figure out how to manage this for the future... if we get to vote in AZOHVC issues, we'll need to create a poll or area where the items under consideration are voted on by the group.

I'll leave it up to Jim or someone else closely associated with the AZOHVC to help figure out how best to make sure our voice is heard.

Joe

Tom Jacobson
10-13-2005, 07:54 AM
Just donated $10.

Joe - Is there something "different" that happens with this year's membership at the $450 level...or are any funds in excess of the $300 going towards next year's membership?

Thanks for making this so easy!

Tom

Joe West
10-13-2005, 08:01 AM
Thanks Tom,

I think that the $450 level gets us "charter member" status... which really doesn't mean much... however, the additional $150 will help the AZOHVC so it's for a good cause regardless of what our member title is.

The excess funds (if there are any) will go to next year's membership. I'm thinking about closing the link once we hit the $450 level (if we do) and then next year we can do another fund drive for our membership.

Joe


Just donated $10.

Joe - Is there something "different" that happens with this year's membership at the $450 level...or are any funds in excess of the $300 going towards next year's membership?

Thanks for making this so easy!

Tom

jeepsonly
10-13-2005, 09:12 AM
Wow, I'm floored...that's awesome! Awesome job Griswold and everyone else who chipped in!

I'll check on the progress of the Paypal account with the AZVJC or Jim or Sandee can.

Charter membership would be great. We get special recognition at the meeting and a plaque (which I guess we could scan and post for all to enjoy).

Anyway, awesome job!!!

Sedona Jeep School
10-13-2005, 11:09 AM
AWESOME! A special thanks to Travis and Brian for their generosity! And to Joe for coordinating the funds. :)

This group ROCKS!

Now, let's go to some land use meetings and put our faces in front of those Sierra Clubbers who said we are "an easy fight"!

Devil Man
10-13-2005, 03:00 PM
those Sierra Clubbers who said we are "an easy fight"!
ONE OF THOSE A HOLE CAME TO MY DOOR LAST NIGHT AFTER TALKING :rolleyes: TO ME HE WILL NEVER COME TO MY DOOR AGAIN :D

jeepsonly
10-13-2005, 03:21 PM
wait, I want to hear that story. Did he/she see your Jeep and stop to harass you?

Hackle
10-13-2005, 04:37 PM
Ok I have the by laws next to me and for $300 we will get 5 votes add another vote for Charter Membership. You can only represent one organization so the club will need to pick 5 or 6 members to have that vote that are not voting for another club.
charter membership:
The AZVJC will recieve a plaque (I have one for the RockRats and they are cool). Each year you pay for a charter you will get a new year plaque, Logo Sticker, Newsletter subscription (it should be available online), Name listed on the web site.

Just a warning it is late in the year of 2005 but with the organization just coming on line and needing seed money. Bottom line this is for a 2005 membership it will be due again in 2006 in January. We have a meeting coming up soon to get all the dealers involved this will be a big boon for AZOHVC.
Any thing I missed or questions just ask I will do my best to answer.
BTW I pushed the paypal account but it will take a while as the officers at this time are temp until the election. I will keep the heat on. Once we have the money Joe we can send a check to AZOHVC if that will work for you.
Jim F.

richard
10-13-2005, 07:19 PM
Why didn't we do this for hunter's membership?

SavageSun4x4
10-14-2005, 10:07 AM
Here I am catching up on things and I find its all paid up.:(

SHNIPE
10-14-2005, 10:47 AM
Sweet, me too! a bit late but more always helps :D

azdesertrhino
10-14-2005, 08:27 PM
Man, I miss a few days and miss out on all the fun. :mad: Have we reached the $450 amount? Has a fund been started for next year? If more is needed holler and I'd be happy to help out!!

Joe West
10-14-2005, 09:29 PM
W're at roughly $370 now... on our way to $450. If people want to contribute to take the club to the charter-member status, they can continue and I'll post when we hit the $450 mark. Anything over will simply go towards next year's membership.

Joe


Man, I miss a few days and miss out on all the fun. :mad: Have we reached the $450 amount? Has a fund been started for next year? If more is needed holler and I'd be happy to help out!!

jeepin_in_az
10-14-2005, 09:55 PM
Joe,

Let me know how much you need to hit $450 right now. I will send it to you. I can't do $100 right now, cause my Small Business Sponser is up this month and I also need to get that to you asap.

azdesertrhino
10-15-2005, 03:47 AM
Glad there was time left for me to help. Wish I could afford to get us to the $450 mark but I got us $30.00 closer!! Hope by the end of the day we hit the $450 mark. Thanks to all that stepped up to the plate to support this. :D :D :D

joedokes28
10-15-2005, 07:41 AM
I'm in for $10

twstdtj
10-15-2005, 10:38 AM
Just kicked in $60.00 sorry for being late, but Im out of state :D

Joe West
10-15-2005, 03:39 PM
Well Gang... what can I say... Awesome work.

We are at $458.02 after the Paypal fees so I'm going to disable the Paypal subscription until next year when we can start the fund drive over again. I could leave the Paypal subscription open, but I worry a bit about people continuing to donate and then having a surplus. If anyone feels strongly one way or the other about leaving the subscription open or disabling it... let me know.

Again... great job gang!

Joe

jeepsonly
10-15-2005, 10:47 PM
WOW. AZVJC will be a Charter member. That's pretty cool.

Tom Jacobson
10-17-2005, 07:12 AM
Based on Hackle's post, would it be better to wait a couple months and join for the full 12 mos. of 2006 with the money we've collected?

Not trying to cheap out...but it sure seems that would be a better use of the funds raised.

Tom

1BLKJP
10-17-2005, 04:56 PM
Based on Hackle's post, would it be better to wait a couple months and join for the full 12 mos. of 2006 with the money we've collected?

Not trying to cheap out...but it sure seems that would be a better use of the funds raised.

Tom

Either that or have Joe re-open the Paypal account so we can get started on next years fees right now.

And Damn folks nice work. I haven't been on in a week and this has come and gone and been done with. Much better response from the group than we had for some other fund raising efforts.

Joe West
10-17-2005, 05:25 PM
Let's see if they will allow our membership to continue for a year and a few months... if not, let's see if we can sign up at the end of December and get a year and a day for the same costs. Perhaps someone associated with them can check?

Joe

tomfooshee
10-17-2005, 05:37 PM
I hope I did it right. I signed up as a forum sponsor. This is my first night useing this forum. I've been logging on to the old AZVJC.org and going to the archive.
Thanks to Joe West for setting up a place for AZVJC members to donate towards the goal of AZVJC becoming a club member in the AZOHVC (Arizona Off Highway Vehicle Coalition). The AZOHVC is a non-profit Arizona organization that is working to preserve the rights of all OHV recreationalists on public land. It costs $300 annualy for AZVJC to join and we receive 5 club votes (because of our size) on important issues.

Since we seem to have around 100 active members (lots more semi-active), it would only take $3 a piece to cover the membership cost (actually slightly more due to Paypal fees). You can contribute $3 or more by visiting http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/payments.php. Once we have enough money in the pot, we'll join AZOHVC. Any additional money received could go towards next years fees.

Thanks Joe and to all who contribute!

Hackle
10-19-2005, 09:00 PM
OK I did some checking and joining now includes the rest of this year and 2006. Dues would not be due again until Jan. 2007. Sorry for the misinformation in an earlier post.
Jim F.

Joe West
10-20-2005, 06:34 AM
Hi Jim,

Can you get me a Paypal address so I can get this money sent in to AZOHVC?

Joe

Hackle
10-20-2005, 07:01 AM
When I spoke to Sandee last night they should have one up soon as they are working on it. I will let you know as soon as I can find out.
Jim F.

Hackle
10-20-2005, 05:38 PM
As a Charter Member the AZVJC will have 6 votes now we need to decide who gets to cast those votes. Number one they must show up at the meetings (4 max per year). They can not represent another organization at the same time. I would suggest we get something set up to first have people let us know if they are interested and can show up at the meetings to represent the group. Then if we have more then 6 we set up a pole to pick the reps. JMHO
Jim F.

One reminder on Charter membership in most organizations you must pay the Charter Fee each year. This is the same way Tread Lightly and several other organizations are set up
Jim F.

Joe West
10-20-2005, 09:22 PM
Hi Jim,

Here are my thoughts on votes... and they bear no more weight than any other member of this forum.

It might be a good idea to split the votes as follows:

Three members of the forum who are ACTIVELY involved in land issues; one vote each.

The remaining three votes on issues would be cast by poll by the remainder of the participating members in the forum

For instance... the issues would be posted, and members would simply choose to vote for whatever option they like best. Majority rules and the option that wins the poll is the option that gets the remaining three votes.

I don't know if something like this would work, it depends on exactly how the votes are being used. It would not make sense to me to have three of our members voting one way... and the remaining three votes by poll to be voting another way; effectively cancelling out our influence.

To be most effective, it may make more sense to have our votes all cast via poll (assuming we as a group get six votes per issue voted on) that way we ensure that the majority of the forum gets a say in each issue.

Some questions:

1. Exactly how are the votes being used? is this a simple yes/no type of vote with six yea or nay per issue?

2. Do we need six members to show up to cast six votes or can one member we designate cast all of our votes?

3. Does the same member (or set of members) need to be the same for the entire year or can we rotate members through the process (assuming we have more than six members who have the desire and time to participate)

4. Could you (or someone) post the bylaws or charter for the group so we can understand more fully how things will work?

I'm sure through discussion, we can come to some arrangement where everyone who wants to participate, can participate.

Thanks for all your efforts Jim,

Joe

Sedona Jeep School
10-21-2005, 06:19 AM
I agree with Joe: The purest form of representation would be to run all votes through our polls.

To split it up, and have "representatives", would require a poll to vote for who we think accurately represents the club. And then, how frequently do we select representatives? Doing it this way smacks too much of "organization" and anyone who has seen my desk, knows how much I detest that! :D

Could the AZOHVC be "informed" of our vote via an email link to the poll?

As for attending meetings and events, it is important for AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE to be involved, regardless of the voting issue.

Joe West
10-21-2005, 06:52 AM
Another idea would be to allow members who actually donated to the fund for membership to have a "weighted" vote in the polls by allowing them to have more than one vote.

For instance:

A member who did not donate to the effort will have a single vote and a member who actually donated to the effort will have two or three votes; effectively *slightly* biasing the poll towards the people who donated.

The reason I like this idea is because it rewards the people who donated to make this happen by giving them a slightly larger say than the people who did not.

Thoughts?

Joe

Hackle
10-21-2005, 09:26 AM
I have the By-Laws and Sop’s at home and I do not have them in a electronic format. I will get the files from Sandee when see gets back in town. Most of the votes will be cast for Elections of the Officers, Board of Directors, and in our case the 4x4 Reps to the board. I am pretty sure we do not allow proxy voting as we want and need as many people involved and to show up to meetings as possible (this is also why you can only represent one group). This will help to spread the information given out at the meetings back to the group represented.

They are still looking for candidates for all the Officers and Board Members so if anyone is interested please PM me so I can get you the information to submit to the AZOHVC. As far as it being the same people each time I do not think it matters.
Jim F.

SavageSun4x4
10-21-2005, 09:49 AM
Another idea would be to allow members who actually donated to the fund for membership to have a "weighted" vote in the polls by allowing them to have more than one vote.

For instance:

A member who did not donate to the effort will have a single vote and a member who actually donated to the effort will have two or three votes; effectively *slightly* biasing the poll towards the people who donated.

The reason I like this idea is because it rewards the people who donated to make this happen by giving them a slightly larger say than the people who did not.

Thoughts?

Joe
BONK! Wrong answer!!! If you will look there were several folks that wanted to donate but the 'cup was full' at that time.

Now, if you want to do it that way: Post to all that it is available, the donation time frame and give all a fair shot at giving.

Since the amount of money that was required was fairly small, it only took a few folks to get there.

But then this smacks of 'votes and influence for sale' and that stinks:eek: I'd be careful, VERY careful on this. Hummm sounds like if you donate enuff you might just get to spend the nite in the 'Lincoln' bedroom.

Sedona Jeep School
11-05-2005, 06:39 AM
Any word on our AZOHVC membership? I see that the website now has Paypal...

Any news or upcoming meetings?

Hackle
11-05-2005, 11:41 AM
I just sent the link to Joe for the new paypal account so it should be taken care of soon.
Nina or anyone else for that matter the AZOHVC Power Point Is up on the web page. I also put a copy on my web page along with the Alberta Video we were shown so it anyone needs either they are avaialbe here
Hackles Land Use Page (http://www.hacklesjeep.com/page6.html)

Joe West
11-05-2005, 01:12 PM
Just sent in the payment via the "donation" link on their homepage. $458.02 is the total sent which is the full amount donated after Paypal took out their fees.

Joe

Joe West
11-12-2005, 04:57 PM
Hi Jim,

Do you want to move this thread over to the land use area?
We may want to leave it sticky so people can vote on issues.

Do we have any information on the next meeting or the issues that will be discussed?

Joe

Hackle
11-12-2005, 05:11 PM
Thanks for the reminder Joe. No new info right now the big thing planned right now is a meeting to get all the dealers to buy in and help out. I will keep everyone up to date on the next meeting and the officers and board members that will be in the election.
I wouls suggest that the group decide on how to pick and who to pick to represent the group.
Jim F.

SavageSun4x4
12-27-2005, 10:11 AM
I have the By-Laws and Sop’s at home and I do not have them in a electronic format. I will get the files from Sandee when see gets back in town. Most of the votes will be cast for Elections of the Officers, Board of Directors, and in our case the 4x4 Reps to the board. I am pretty sure we do not allow proxy voting as we want and need as many people involved and to show up to meetings as possible (this is also why you can only represent one group). This will help to spread the information given out at the meetings back to the group represented.

They are still looking for candidates for all the Officers and Board Members so if anyone is interested please PM me so I can get you the information to submit to the AZOHVC. As far as it being the same people each time I do not think it matters.
Jim F.

Just wondering on where we are at on this? Its suddendly gone quite and no further status reports are being generated.

Don [aka Bill O'Reilly]

Hackle
12-27-2005, 10:27 AM
AZOHVC (http://www.azohv.org/)
All the info including contacts are available on the web site. They By-Laws are posted also. They are still looking for volunteers.
Jim F.

SavageSun4x4
12-27-2005, 10:54 AM
AZOHVC (http://www.azohv.org/)
All the info including contacts are available on the web site. They By-Laws are posted also. They are still looking for volunteers.
Jim F.
I was trying to find the contacts and somehow I cannot seem to find it or I just missed them. In particular the AZVJC contacts.

Just curious as to how our money is being spent and the results. I know there are several posts above on reps. I never saw a thread on asking for any other than a post in this thread.

I know it’s a military thing with me, I just like to know the results of our efforts, especially when money is involved.

As we say around the ‘beltway’ follow the money.

Hackle
12-27-2005, 03:42 PM
I can not help you there I do not think the discussion was ever completed. The membership meeting to vote in officers should be coming up in Feb. so it would be a good idea to resolve it soon.
I don't have a dog in this fight as I am already representing the RockRats.
Jim F.

Joe West
12-27-2005, 04:03 PM
Hi Jim,

Can you tell us how many representatives we need to choose to represent the club?

Joe

Hackle
12-27-2005, 04:33 PM
Ok I have the by laws next to me and for $300 we will get 5 votes add another vote for Charter Membership. You can only represent one organization so the club will need to pick 5 or 6 members to have that vote that are not voting for another club.
So we will need 6 members I would suggest an alternate or two also.

Jim F.

1BLKJP
12-28-2005, 04:34 PM
Ok I have the by laws next to me and for $300 we will get 5 votes add another vote for Charter Membership. You can only represent one organization so the club will need to pick 5 or 6 members to have that vote that are not voting for another club.
So we will need 6 members I would suggest an alternate or two also.

Jim F.

Okay so it looks like we need to start deciding how to divy up the votes. Looks like we have 6 to represent us. Anyone got any good ideas as to how/who should be our spoken representatives?

The first thought that I had on this subject was that the thread to decide on who will be the representatives needs to stay here in the Land Use section. In my opinion if you don't read the Land Use section then you don't care enough be a part of what we are trying to do. Because we can get 475 reads and 34 responses to a thread about Boots, but in here we get barely 10-15% as many reads as that thread.

Sedona Jeep School
12-29-2005, 05:59 AM
Okay, let's start. I just glanced around a few of the land use threads to see who is participating. Since Sandee, Jim, Dave O, and Joe W are already contributing their time and effort through other channels, it would appear that there are a few names which keep showing up. I would like to submit nominations for the following (not listed in any particular order):

1. Bill--jeepsonly
2. Don--SavageSun
3. Jack--1BLKJP
4. Tom Jacobson
5. Linda Cummins
6. ?

Maybe we get a list of (willing) participants and then post a poll?

rockwerks
12-29-2005, 07:50 AM
Okay, let's start. I just glanced around a few of the land use threads to see who is participating. Since Sandee, Jim, Dave O, and Joe W are already contributing their time and effort through other channels, it would appear that there are a few names which keep showing up. I would like to submit nominations for the following (not listed in any particular order):

1. Bill--jeepsonly
2. Don--SavageSun
3. Jack--1BLKJP
4. Tom Jacobson
5. Linda Cummins
6. ?

Maybe we get a list of (willing) participants and then post a poll?

sounds like a good idea.

Where will the meetings be held?

Hackle
12-29-2005, 05:40 PM
1) It is a state wide organization so expect meetings state wide. Everyone invovled works for a living so expect at least weekends.
2) No definate answers until the officers and board are in place. The first voting meeting will be in PHX to elect officers, board members and representatives. I would suggest starting a new thread to discuss who and how?
Jim F.

rockwerks
12-29-2005, 05:42 PM
1) It is a state wide organization so expect meetings state wide. Everyone invovled works for a living so expect at least weekends.
2) No definate answers until the officers and board are in place. The first voting meeting will be in PHX to elect officers, board members and representatives. I would suggest starting a new thread to discuss who and how?
Jim F.
\
can we have ALTERNATE reps, so people dont have to travel so far?

Hackle
12-29-2005, 05:45 PM
So we will need 6 members I would suggest an alternate or two also.

Jim F.

I will leave it at this.
Jim F.

SavageSun4x4
12-30-2005, 11:07 AM
Okay, let's start. I just glanced around a few of the land use threads to see who is participating. Since Sandee, Jim, Dave O, and Joe W are already contributing their time and effort through other channels, it would appear that there are a few names which keep showing up. I would like to submit nominations for the following (not listed in any particular order):

1. Bill--jeepsonly
2. Don--SavageSun
3. Jack--1BLKJP
4. Tom Jacobson
5. Linda Cummins
6. ?

Maybe we get a list of (willing) participants and then post a poll?
That is a good list of names with the exception of myself. I doubt I have the skills to deal with the politic that is ever present. My patience albeit more than when I was much younger is still not up to the brim in my cup. I am far to blunt and candid in approaches to issues. Between my military career and running my own company I am a bit too action oriented and results focused.

That said, I believe that Nena would be a most outstanding candidate to represent us as a group. Her sage wisdom, astute judgment, and decisiveness are traits we need to accomplish the mission in a timely manner.

Insofar as ‘6’ representatives, I believe that number is far too many. I would suggest 2 folks with general input from all and specific input from individuals that also serve as backups. Trying to show up with 6 folks would be difficult and if we did, its not likely we would all be on the same sheet of music. Moreover, this will lead to infighting, the lack of a cohesive façade and a failure to convey our interests. This failure to present ourselves as a unified cabal will only weaken our positions and dilute our stance on state issues within the larger organization.