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mingoglia
08-24-2005, 09:50 AM
Okay, wondering your opinions on my upgrade path.

I currently have a '98 Sahara with the crappy 3.07 gears and a manual tranny completely stock (well the tires are slightly taller/wider at P265/75/15)

The trails I usually run are between 2.5 - 4.0. Although I've spent most of my life in the dirt on quads/dirtbikes/Yamaha Rhino (I can literally go through box canyon by the time Free Bird gets finished playing on the radio on a quad or my Rhino) :-) I average about 2 hours finishing crown king on a quad, or 2.5 hours on a Rhino. I'm 29 now, but back in '91 when I started driving my parents had a YJ that we took out, although not as often as I would of liked. Through out highschool, I very frequently wheeled/spotted with friends, although I was usually a passenger. Because of all this, I consider myself a very motivated novice.

Anyway, figured I'd give you some history as to where I may be going and want my vehicle to do.

What my plan has been once it started cooling off was to install a Long Arm Rubicon Express kit and 35's. After spending the last few months reading various boards, I decided to go with 33's instead as the trails I want to traverse will be fine with 33's (research tells me) and the difference in on road between the 33's and 35's don't warrant the larger tires for what I'm trying to accomplish. My TJ is used as a DD because I enjoy driving with the top/doors off (yeah, even in the summer) but I do have another primary vehicle that I drive part of the week or if I were to break the Jeep. :-) Also, my office is on Stapley/Baseline and I live on Gilbert/Williamsfield so the commute is easy.

I would really like as close to stock of a ride as possible. Having a "cheap" lift on a truck I had several years back got old. Also, my other truck is a 1-ton dually (I have a heavy toy hauler) so I'd like the Jeep to ride a little better than that. Although I live close to the office, I very very frequently on the weekends head up to Strawberry, Flagstaff, etc and would like a reasonable ride.

OK, I'll get to the point. I'm currently thinking:
33" MT/R's and just enough lift to clear them (without having to cut anything).
Replace the D35 with a 8.8"
4.56 gears
ARB locker
3.5" of lift

First off, I know for the trails I'm going to be running I don't *need* the ARB's, but if I'm regearing the axles, I figure I might as well do it right and spend the money once. In addition, I'm planning on using the lockers as little as possible until I increase my skills. I don't want the locker to compensate for crappy wheeling techniques as I'm very serious about getting into this sport.

After running numbers (on the axles upgrades) , I've decided to go against my original plan of going with a RE long arm or most recently a Rock Krawler, and go with a cheaper kit. I believe upgrading the axles is the first place I want to spend $$$ and I don't want to get too out of control cost wise and upgrade axles and 5k on a lift all at the same time.

This brings me to my question, I'm thinking about a 3.5" Superflex kit or possibly a OME kit with a 1" body lift and MML lift? It's my understanding the OME kit has superior on road handling? I'm open to all suggestions.

Unfortunately I've had to step up this process due to losing a tire on my TJ last weekend coming back from Superior. I was towing the TJ behind my truck when I lost a tire on Gilbert Road. I can't get a replacement Cooper tire because it was explained to me that I had too much run flat damage to determine (the manufacturer) if the tread in fact separated or I ran it flat for too long... anyway, I don't want to spend money on a tire I'm going to replace in a couple months.

Another part of this rush is I bought a coworker a half day at Sedona Jeep School with Nena and I'm planning on taking my rig up there as well. We're going to wait a bit until it cools down, but I want to be ready to go. Also, the last thing I want is to have a lift and 33's and those crappy 3.07 gears, so I need to take care of all this before then (including axles).

Sorry for the ramble on... My employees keep walking into my office asking me questions and it seems like the above paragraphs are neverending, for all I know in between writing all this I may have repeated myself. :rolleyes:

Mike

xFallen
08-24-2005, 11:16 AM
I recently removed a RE 3.5" SuperFLex kit from my 1998 TJ Sport. That kit along with 33" tires allowed a flex of about 1050 on a 23 degree ramp -- pretty decent considering the modest lift. No body lift. I ran disconnected up front which is a cheap route to additional traction.

I also later had lockers. I replaced the stock Trak-Loc with a Detroit in the rear D44 and have an ARB in the front D30.

The 33s and 3.5" lift rarely, if ever, rubbed under full stuff situations. It depends somewhat on the tire profile and the pressures you run. I almost always ran (run) with the front swaybar disconnected, even on the pavement. The short arm kit for the 3.5" lift was not really a disadvantage as far as I could tell -- it flexed great. I am not sure how much more flex there was to be had except for maybe disconnecting the rear swaybar.

The trails I ran with 33" and the 3.5" lift include, the Tip Top loop (and various off-shoots), Power Line, FR-42, Coves, Terminator (upper and lower), Raw Deal (upper and lower), Judgement Day, Bad Medicine, Overdose and a several others whose names I do not know. The Terminators and Raw Deal(s) were run at various times with open diffs and locked depending upon when. Except for the more difficult trails (BM and OD), I found the trails mentioned fairly easy in either case. Having at least one locker is nice though. I would choose lower gears and both front and rear locked over 35" tires were it to come to that. 33s, good driving, a low crawl ratio and locked axles (probably in that order) will take you a long way, IMO.

I have the bulk of the (used) RE kit available, by the way. :-) There may be a grease zerk or two that should be replaced on the control arms but everything is there (including Doestch shocks and a disconnect kit) and all parts are either usable as is or are serviceable. I was wheeling my rig with it right up until it came off in favor of more to accomodate bigger tires. These components have AZ rock rash. If you want things to look pretty then you may be disappointed in which case I suggest buying new. I also have 3.73 gears for the Dana 30 and Dana 44, a Trac-Loc LSD for the D44, stock axles, complete steering, and probably other junk waiting to become someone else's junk.


Barry

Crawldit
08-24-2005, 01:16 PM
I'd say your in a pretty good position because you've done your research and you know what you want. I don't have personal experience with either lift mentioned but have heard wonderful things about both. If you want a true 3.5" I would go with the OME and the BL. I hear that the RE's run tall so you may run into other problem areas such as your rear drive line angles. Personally I would run the OME 2.5". OME now has a 4" lift as well but I hear that it runs closer to 4.5-5" so you'll run into driveline issues again. Good call on the gears and lockers. Sounds like it will be one heck of a dependable rig when completed.

mingoglia
08-24-2005, 02:33 PM
Great info, glad you guys think I'm on the right track...keep the info coming. :-) xfallen, I sent you a PM....

Mike

xFallen
08-24-2005, 05:48 PM
Great info, glad you guys think I'm on the right track...keep the info coming. :-) xfallen, I sent you a PM....

Mike

Mike,

There should be no need for a BL if you are running 33" tires and a true 3.5" of suspension on a TJ, at least. You may need new rims for the tires.

Choose the width and backspacing appropriately as that also affects what will rub and when. My wheels are 15x8 with 4.5" BS and would rub on the control arms at extreme lock with 33x12.50x15 TSLs but would NOT rub with the same size in (BFG) Mud Kings. They would stuff fully into the fenderwells without rubbing except under extreme duress.

It is pretty hard to get away from tires hitting the control arms at full lock. You can adapt driving style, put washers in your steering bump stops, get different BS wheels (or spacers). I am not a fan of BL unless you really need it (or it is all that fits the budget), do not like wheel spacers much, or extreme wheel BS. Can be very hard on the bearings. Up to 3.5" of wheel BS is alleged to be okay on TJs. Don't take my word for that one -- ask an expert.

10" wide wheels make the fitment problem worse. I personally prefer 8" wheels for bead stability at low pressures. My 37x12.50x15 Creepy Crawlers are on 15x8s and fit great.


Barry

JamesT
08-24-2005, 05:49 PM
..... Joe.....Flexy..... (pssst, this is where you step in and say something) ;)

mingoglia
08-24-2005, 09:30 PM
I was planning on the typical 15X8 Rock Crawlers with 3.75 bs. yeah, I know about hitting the control arms. The p265/70/15's I have on the stock out of control back spaced wheels rub and it drove me nuts until I got used to it. I told myself I wouldn't add washers because I was going to fix the problem the "correct" way by adjusting back spacing.

This past weekend I went geocaching on the rim. I let a friend of mine take the wheel for the last 1/3 of the trip and it was driving me up the wall that he kept rubbing on the control arms...seemed everytime he did it he had the look on his face of "what's that?" and I had to remind him what that sound was. :D

Devil Man
08-24-2005, 09:39 PM
I was planning on the typical 15X8 Rock Crawlers with 3.75 bs. yeah, I know about hitting the control arms. The p265/70/15's I have on the stock out of control back spaced wheels rub and it drove me nuts until I got used to it. I told myself I wouldn't add washers because I was going to fix the problem the "correct" way by adjusting back spacing.

This past weekend I went geocaching on the rim. I let a friend of mine take the wheel for the last 1/3 of the trip and it was driving me up the wall that he kept rubbing on the control arms...seemed everytime he did it he had the look on his face of "what's that?" and I had to remind him what that sound was. :D
http://community.webshots.com/album/410924079ggKLjW :D :D http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/showthread.php?t=9195

Sedona Jeep School
08-25-2005, 07:07 AM
Barry (xFallen) made excellent points. 3.5" should be plenty to fit 33's. I, too, am no fan of BL's--no fun to install, and does compromise the body integrity.

Something I would add: Having used both RE and OME lifts, I would observe that RE is much more popular (though not necessarily better) and, therefore, easier to find extra parts, and mechanics who are familiar with them. Just something to consider for the long haul...

Sounds like you are building a very capable trail rig. Can't wait to see it in action! :D

mingoglia
08-25-2005, 07:46 AM
I'm going to be meeting xfallen this afternoon and assuming everything looks good I'll be getting that lift from him. I'm trying to source out some axles now. Do you guys think $2500 is a good price for a rear Dana 44 and a front Dana 30 both built up with ARB's and 4.88 gears? Came from a '03 TJ with 25k miles. I really wanted 4.56 gears as I think the 4.88's will be too low with the 33's, but I'm considering it. Of course I don't need the front 30, but they come as a package and then I'll already have the ARB's and gears done (as I will tackle swapping axles myself, but wouldn't attempt doing gears/arb's).

Mike

xFallen
08-25-2005, 12:27 PM
I'm going to be meeting xfallen this afternoon and assuming everything looks good I'll be getting that lift from him. I'm trying to source out some axles now. Do you guys think $2500 is a good price for a rear Dana 44 and a front Dana 30 both built up with ARB's and 4.88 gears? Came from a '03 TJ with 25k miles. I really wanted 4.56 gears as I think the 4.88's will be too low with the 33's, but I'm considering it. Of course I don't need the front 30, but they come as a package and then I'll already have the ARB's and gears done (as I will tackle swapping axles myself, but wouldn't attempt doing gears/arb's).

Mike

If you have the stock reduction ratio transfer case the 4.88 gears will be great off road. They are livable on-road although you'll be reving higher at higher speeds. I still cruised at 65-70 mph on the 33s. With the 37s 4.88 is almost back to a stockish level maybe a little steeper.

I am good to go this afternoon, btw, but as predicted my telephone is on the fritz.


Barry

mingoglia
08-25-2005, 01:31 PM
Yeah, if I get the 4.88 it won't be too bad as I don't drive in the freeway much. When I go to Sedona and meet Nena I'll be towing my Jeep and on my Strawberry trip last weekend I towed the Jeep behind my truck.

One day I'd like to get the 4.1 kit for my tranfer case but that's a long way down the list of priorities.

Barry, I sent you an email to that address you gave me. As you said, your phone is still conspiring against your sanity.

Mike

xFallen
08-25-2005, 08:22 PM
Yeah, if I get the 4.88 it won't be too bad as I don't drive in the freeway much. When I go to Sedona and meet Nena I'll be towing my Jeep and on my Strawberry trip last weekend I towed the Jeep behind my truck.

One day I'd like to get the 4.1 kit for my tranfer case but that's a long way down the list of priorities.

Barry, I sent you an email to that address you gave me. As you said, your phone is still conspiring against your sanity.

Mike

Pretty sure my sanity evacuated many moons ago :D

Nice to meet you this evening. If you need help with the kit, ummm....hrmmm...gee...not sure what you should do about that :D

You have my day time number now.

The RE 3.5" SuperFlex kit is sold.



Barry