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Hackle
06-04-2005, 05:42 AM
IT is pretty easy just cut and paste. This is a copy of my letter and the contact info is at the bottom.

Senator John McCain

I live in Arizona and am an avid four wheel drive vehicle user. I am
contacting you to ask that you ensure that the House-passed funding
level for the Recreational Trails Program (RTP) is included in the HR 3
conference report for the final version of HR 3.



The RTP is a proven success, leveraging federal funds with volunteer
labor, state trails funding generated through registration fees and gas
taxes and private funds. The program relies on user fees paid by
recreationists like me. However, under the current RTP, and under the
Senate-passed version of HR 3, recreational trail users are unfair
"donors" to other transportation programs, receiving just 18% of the
taxes paid. Adopting the House-passed funding levels in the final bill
will address this unfairness.



Please ensure that the final version of HR 3 includes the House-passed
funding for the RTP program. This is a very important issue to me and I
appreciate your attention to this matter.



Yours truly,
James K. Florence


More information about funding levels by state is available at the
United website at http://www.ufwda.org./



Please, send the following letter, or one in your own words, to your
U.S. Senators urging them to adopt the House-passed funding level for
the RTP program in the HR 3 conference report for the final version of
HR 3.



If you need help finding the name and/or address of your U.S. Senator go
to:

http://www.senate.gov/ <http://www.senate.gov> and enter your zip code.
A list of your two Senators will appear. Please write to both of them.
If you do not have access to the Internet and need help you can contact
me by phone or e-mail at: (757) 546-7969 or legisadvoc@ufwda.org
<mailto:legisadvoc@ufwda.org>



Letters must be sent by June 6, 2005.



Please copy all letters to me at

legisadvoc@ufwda.org <mailto:legisadvoc@ufwda.org>

or

P.O. Box 15696

Chesapeake, VA 23328

rolled1
06-04-2005, 06:26 AM
done

the rest of this cause the message needs to be 10 caractures long
Why?

flxy_tj
06-04-2005, 10:13 AM
Ok all done.....

My1stJeep
06-04-2005, 05:39 PM
Just finished sending mine. Please take a moment or two and complete this. Any funding we can get to help us keep lands open is worth the few minutes it will take.

Stu Olson
06-05-2005, 05:31 PM
mine went out a few minutes ago

Devil Man
06-05-2005, 05:49 PM
done & done :) thanks Jim

Woody
06-05-2005, 09:38 PM
Done......

thanks for keeping us aware of these important issues, Jim.

I hope more people sent these letters than replied here.

Tomorrow is the deadline. Please, take a few minutes to do this.

Woody

AZXJ
06-05-2005, 10:55 PM
done, and sent to the XJ list's MJ list and anyother list I belong too..

Later
DaveO

1BLKJP
06-06-2005, 04:38 PM
Done, sent one by mail last week and also emailed a couple different letters from different sites.

This is pretty important as the House bill has room for a lot more funds than the Senate bill.

Hackle
06-06-2005, 05:29 PM
Thanks to everyone that sent a message. I also hope that a lot more went out then posted here. If we want to keep our trails we need to get more of us invovled in the project. The silent majority needs to speak up even if you do not like it. We are the majority, we all just work for a living and find it more important to spend time with the family and kids. Try to remember the time you spend with your family members in the outdoors. Is a few extra minutes to send a letter worth keeping that time? To me it is, that is why I spend the time I do on Land Use Issues. End of speach we just need more people to help. STEP UP
Jim F.

Brian Blum
06-06-2005, 05:52 PM
I hate to sound like a douchbag here folks, but I can't send a copy of this letter. It's so poorly written that I'd be ashamed to put my name on it--particulary paragraph two. Unfortunatly I don't have time to do the research necessary to figure out exactly what paragraph two is trying to say. If someone wants to rewrite this in way that is understandable, I'd be happy to send a copy to Mr. McCain.

Brian

Hackle
06-06-2005, 06:21 PM
That is the first time I have heard that excuse. Congrats!
I understand the issues and the second paragragh is well written in government speak. I can put you in touch with the group that wrote the letter. I am sure they could use more help.
I would also be willing to explain the governmemt speak if you want to PM me but by that time it will be to late to send your message.
I hope all the trails you wheel on that get closed are well written closure notices.
Jim F.

1BLKJP
06-06-2005, 09:10 PM
I hate to sound like a douchbag here folks, but I can't send a copy of this letter. It's so poorly written that I'd be ashamed to put my name on it--particulary paragraph two. Unfortunatly I don't have time to do the research necessary to figure out exactly what paragraph two is trying to say. If someone wants to rewrite this in way that is understandable, I'd be happy to send a copy to Mr. McCain.

Brian

Wow, it never ceases to amaze me that when someone is trying to do something for the common good. That people have the audacity to outright **** on them for it. And funny enough you don't "have the time" to propose constructive alternatives to what was already provided.

I agree with Jim, the letter was short and to the point. Please don't assume that our senators and their staffs are stupid. They do already know what the bill is about for the most part.

But don't worry boss just keep talkin smack on the work that a few of us are doing to try and keep the trails open.

Brian Blum
06-06-2005, 09:29 PM
I am not making an excuse, sir. I am merely offering some constructive criticism. A letter aimed at persuading someone to consider an idea should be written in a way that actually persuades. This letter does not coherently make a case for why the House's funding levels in HR 3 should be adopted by the Senate.

I too consider myself well versed in "government speak." Indeed, I just graduated from law school last month. While there I studied legislation in great detail. If your organization needs lawyers to volunteer their time to help research issues regarding legislation, please have someone contact me. After the bar exam in July I'll have plenty of time to give.

Although the deadline is now passed and the issue is moot, I would still enjoy learning what you know about HR 3. If you have the time, please post an explanation of UFWDA's proposed letter here.

Brian Blum
bblum99@yahoo.com

Brian Blum
06-06-2005, 09:37 PM
Wow, it never ceases to amaze me that when someone is trying to do something for the common good. That people have the audacity to outright **** on them for it. And funny enough you don't "have the time" to propose constructive alternatives to what was already provided.

I agree with Jim, the letter was short and to the point. Please don't assume that our senators and their staffs are stupid. They do already know what the bill is about for the most part.

But don't worry boss just keep talkin smack on the work that a few of us are doing to try and keep the trails open.

As I'm sure you know, the letter that Hackle posted was copied from ufwda.org (http://www.ufwda.org./press/RTP/alert_060105.htm#letter) , I was not ****ting on him personally. I was merely trying to convey the point that a coherent letter would better serve the goals of the club.

Sedona Jeep School
06-07-2005, 06:44 AM
Let's stay on topic here people. (Isn't that just like a lawyer to continually obfuscate the real issue? :D Oops, sorry, I couldn't help myself there, Brian! :D Let us know when you pass the bar, and what your area of specialty is.)

Jim, thanks, again. With everything I have going with the USFS, I would not have had the time to thoroughly compose my own letter. I cut, pasted, and modified to my own taste. Thank you for all that you do--I know how time and energy consuming it is!

When/where will we be able to follow the progress on this issue?

Happy open trails!

My1stJeep
06-07-2005, 07:37 AM
Ok, the amount of time it took to post your responses about not having enough time was enough to reword anything you did not like.

The simple part is those paragraphs stating that the funds are cut short in the Senate version and expanded in the House version. It is looking to encourage the Senators to adopt the House verson as it is.

It may not go into perfect detail down to the letter of what exactly gets cut, but at this point the OHV community can't afford any cuts, so putting your name on it should have been a no brainer, IMO. Knowing we cannot afford cuts, that whole area you did not like could have been summed up, to please adopt the House version as the Senate version does not provide adequate funding.

I wanted to be sure mine was more personal, so I added a few statements about things I thought needed to be added, reworded some stuff without changing the meaning, keep the House version of the bill as it stands.

Yes we are all short of time, but not taking the time now will only get the trails closed in the future, when we have more time to wheel there will be less trails for the time we did not spend in the past.

I do appreciate your offer to help when the legal battles arise, I hope you are a better person than the last lawyer that was here, he only wanted to stir up trouble, then threaten sue everyone, so yes skeptical.

Brian Blum
06-07-2005, 08:37 AM
Ok, the amount of time it took to post your responses about not having enough time was enough to reword anything you did not like.

You're probably right.



The simple part is those paragraphs stating that the funds are cut short in the Senate version and expanded in the House version. It is looking to encourage the Senators to adopt the House verson as it is.


Again, you're right. That much was clear enough. In fact I did end up sending a message to McCain and Kyl last night saying just that.

I guess the only reason I bothered posting my gripe in the first place was to get the point across that the proposed letter, with it's run-on sentences and awkward wording, detracted from the underlying issue. In other words, when some Senate staffer reads those letters the first thing he or she might think is, "what the hell is this? These people can't even write a complete sentence." That's unfortunate, but it does detract from the message. I know how these *******s think, they're the same types of people I went to law school with. They all think they're better than everyone else because the have a JD or some other graduate degree.

I really was just trying to help. I probably could have been nicer about it, but I thought my way would get someone else to do the work for me! Oh my God, maybe I'm turning into an ******* too! NOOOOOOO!!!!

Anyway, the bar exam is July 26-27 and results come out the first week of October. Assuming I pass, I'll be ready and willing to do anything I can to help out on these types of issues.

Brian

Hackle
06-07-2005, 02:48 PM
To be honest I could have worded things better myself. Bad excuse, but I spend a lot of time trying to keep everyone up to date. At times it gets frustrating seeing limited response to important matters. I did not write the letter as Brain noted, but it made good sense to me as I am familar with the issue. Brian it was written by an attorney "Carla Boucher" who works for United :D
I am including the information for contacting them. They and we could use any time you are willing to offer in the Southwest as United tends to pay more attention to National and East coast issues as that is where they are located.
I am glad this did not turn out to be a flame war.
Jim F.
For additional information
please contact LegisAdvoc@UFWDA.ORG

rockwerks
06-07-2005, 04:32 PM
I hate to sound like a douchbag here folks, but I can't send a copy of this letter. It's so poorly written that I'd be ashamed to put my name on it--particulary paragraph two. Unfortunatly I don't have time to do the research necessary to figure out exactly what paragraph two is trying to say. If someone wants to rewrite this in way that is understandable, I'd be happy to send a copy to Mr. McCain.

Brian

cut and paste and modify, What amazes me you took the time to post a ***** you could have written the l letter..


both of our senators have a fill in form on their sites. It took me all of 3 minutes to do. if that

rockwerks
06-07-2005, 04:39 PM
jon Kyle form to fill in (http://kyl.senate.gov/contact.cfm)

John Mccain form to fill in (http://mccain.senate.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=Contact.Home)

There ya go even posted this required links for you.....maybe we should post these links in the land use forum at the top for all our reps in the state, and federal govts

Hackle
06-07-2005, 04:46 PM
They are already in a sticky for the last year
http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/showthread.php?t=4349
Called Legislative contacts.
This has been very professional to this point with everyone being honest lets not turn this into a blood letting. We all have room to improve and lets leave it at that.
Jim F.

1BLKJP
06-07-2005, 04:52 PM
Brian,

Thanks for the later posts retracting and restructuring your comments. There are some of us that do everything we can to help out with our cause and far too often we hear all of the excuses in the book on why someone can't so something instead of why they can. And I definitely know that I can be an ******* about this stuff sometimes. But I am used to it and just do it to get more people riled up about the issues we all work on.

Congratulations on finishing law school and good luck on the bar. If you are serious about getting involved from a legal standpoint in our sport then you should give ORBA (www.orba.biz) a call and talk to them. I know that Sandee has said many times they have sent their lawyers to town to help with a meeting or a motion for our causes. But if they could get someone local here to work with them I am sure they would accept the help.

RokNRich
06-08-2005, 12:02 PM
I, for one, really appreciate when Jim posts these up. I almost always immediately cut and paste the letters and use the senators websites comment section, rarely do I reply to the thread, just kind of figure it's my duty.

My understanding with issues like this: some aide reads the letter and puts either a "for" or "against" check in the box. Therefore the letter doesn't need to be written by an English major or lawyer. I'm usually wrong tho...........

Thanks Jim !

My1stJeep
06-08-2005, 04:18 PM
I second that, I think Jim is doing a great job and I don't think I saw anyone call that into question. I also agree with Jim, I think all the input was great and will help us in the future.

Sad note to it though, we are only on page 2 of this thread, and while I agree the thread dealing with dealerships holidng you hostage is something to warn others about, it is on page 3. I just wish this thread had received the same attention. Both are extremely important, and venting here is much better than the alternative, I hope more than added to this post actually sent in letters.

Hackle
06-08-2005, 05:02 PM
I thank everyone for your comments.
News flash: I will be going to Washington DC in July for a week to lobby for OHV Issues along with Sandee, ORBA, BLUE RIBBON, and many other state reps. ASA4WDC is sending Sandee and I. I hope to make sure it is money well spent. This is important work that we all need for our areas. The ASA4WDC could use more support. I know everyone wants to remain out of an organization but a $30 dollar individual membership would go a long way to supporting trips like what I am going on. I am giving up a weeks vacation (this is not what I had in mind) but it is important.
The web site has a sign up form and I am now the head of membership :D
http://asa4wdc.org/
Jim F.

1BLKJP
06-08-2005, 08:48 PM
Jim, excellent work just having the available funds to send you and Sandee. That is a big step forward as far as I am concerned. As the time gets closer let us know who you all will be talking to and we can put forth kind of a rush campaign towards the individuals you all will be working with to let them know how important the issues are to us at home as well as the organizations and individuals that are there to support us.