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View Full Version : AJ development--more loss of trails & open space...



Sedona Jeep School
04-25-2005, 07:15 AM
Here is another place we will be losing trails. I just caught this article in today's AZ Repugnant regarding the State Trust Land around Apache Junction:

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0425TrustLand25.html

Did Arizona suddenly find a new water supply? I guess $20 Billion is enough to make the State Land Trustees forget about things like water, open space, infrastructure capacities...Yes, money talks, and yes, our schools need the money, BUT who wants to live here when every square inch of desert has insta-cities on it? Can we get all the outdoor recreationists to pony up $20 billion to buy that same 360 sq. miles and just let it stay desert...?

Happy fewer trails...

jeepsonly
04-25-2005, 08:59 AM
Anybody else starting to feel crowded in the Valley?

Linda
04-26-2005, 08:13 AM
It's a different world down here in the Valley. The Phoenix metro area is one of the fastest growing areas in the country. Last year Maricopa County had a population increase of close to 160,000 new residents. That is 160,000 people who moved here from somewhere else. That's the population of a small city. There is a large amount of land around Phoenix that is prime for development. It isn't locked in by national forests, wilderness areas, and natural boundaries like many towns in Arizona. What is going to happen is that OHV recreation is going to be pushed further out. There isn't much you can do about that.

Reality sucks!

rockwerks
04-26-2005, 09:03 AM
It's a different world down here in the Valley. The Phoenix metro area is one of the fastest growing areas in the country. Last year Maricopa County had a population increase of close to 160,000 new residents. That is 160,000 people who moved here from somewhere else. That's the population of a small city. There is a large amount of land around Phoenix that is prime for development. It isn't locked in by national forests, wilderness areas, and natural boundaries like many towns in Arizona. What is going to happen is that OHV recreation is going to be pushed further out. There isn't much you can do about that.

Reality sucks!

Too true Linda.....Time to prospect for new trails? Im wondering how many traisl where closed when all su moved into the neighbor hood?

cw50must
04-26-2005, 02:34 PM
Anybody else starting to feel crowded in the Valley?


Me, I was born here and remember when Power Rd was in the middle of no where.

Linda
04-26-2005, 04:44 PM
Too true Linda.....Time to prospect for new trails? Im wondering how many traisl where closed when all su moved into the neighbor hood?

I have 4-wheeled at the base of Pinnacle Peak, in the area now known as Awatukee, in the North Phoenix Mtn Preserve (before it was called that), Silly Mountain Road east of AJ, and of all places, North Pima Road (it turned into a wash north of Shea). You can still see the old 4x4 trails in some of these places. I think they are used as mountain bike and hiking trails now.

jeepsonly
04-26-2005, 05:28 PM
I think they are used as mountain bike and hiking trails now.

Yeah because we all know mountain biking and hiking has no impact on the environment like evil 4 wheeling. :rolleyes:

Sedona Jeep School
04-27-2005, 06:34 AM
It's a different world down here in the Valley. The Phoenix metro area is one of the fastest growing areas in the country. Last year Maricopa County had a population increase of close to 160,000 new residents. That is 160,000 people who moved here from somewhere else. That's the population of a small city. There is a large amount of land around Phoenix that is prime for development. It isn't locked in by national forests, wilderness areas, and natural boundaries like many towns in Arizona. What is going to happen is that OHV recreation is going to be pushed further out. There isn't much you can do about that.

Reality sucks!
Yes it is a different world, and imagine just how much more different it will be with the estimated 1.5 MILLION people this project will invite. Prime for development? According to whom? As for what I see statewide with regard to water, infrastructure, and industry, Arizona is in the red--we have been running a deficit on water, our transportation system rates last in the country, and living-wages are some of the lowest, too. And I have seen half of our four-wheel-drive trails closed IN national forest in 20-years, nothing to do with development.

How much further out can OHV be pushed before recreationists are motivated to do something about it? Is this a case of "the most committed wins"? I have to agree with your point of view Linda--is there ANY hope that recreational interests will outweigh, outgun, out-interest, out-money developers?

Maybe this is an instance where we could sick the Sierra Club...he-he...

rockwerks
04-27-2005, 07:33 AM
Yes it is a different world, and imagine just how much more different it will be with the estimated 1.5 MILLION people this project will invite. Prime for development? According to whom? As for what I see statewide with regard to water, infrastructure, and industry, Arizona is in the red--we have been running a deficit on water, our transportation system rates last in the country, and living-wages are some of the lowest, too. And I have seen half of our four-wheel-drive trails closed IN national forest in 20-years, nothing to do with development.

How much further out can OHV be pushed before recreationists are motivated to do something about it? Is this a case of "the most committed wins"? I have to agree with your point of view Linda--is there ANY hope that recreational interests will outweigh, outgun, out-interest, out-money developers?

Maybe this is an instance where we could sick the Sierra Club...he-he...

No this is a case of money wins....we complain about taxes and bond issues, we vote them down nearly everytime. so where does the state turn to creat income to run our state...how about the sale of state trust land. We can be our own worst enemy.. Sometimes we need to pay for our free lands to keep em

jeepsonly
04-27-2005, 10:13 AM
1.5 MILLION people? Seems to me that one giant development will destroy and do harm to more land than all the 4x4 impact combined for the history of 4x4 recreation in the U.S.

But we're the evil bad guys. :rolleyes: :mad:

azjeepcjman
04-27-2005, 04:14 PM
If you look on the map that came with the article, the area they are talking about here goes all the way from AJ out to where we 4 wheel past Florence Junction and almost all of the way to Florence. Just about everywhere that isn't already built up out to the Johnson Ranch area and all along Hunt Highway. This will put houses and entire city infrastructures within 5 miles of the beginning of our trails where they fly the red flags when the military is engaging in live practice out there. :eek: I envision the loss of use of all of the trails out there like Martinez and Box Canyons, Coke Ovens, just to mention a few. :( Even if they remain open in some form, the traffic in that area will be overwhelming and any of the old remains out there will be destroyed. :mad: What might be the military response to the loss of another training area? :confused:

By the way, on a side note, is there a web site or phone number we can check before going out to Florence Junction to find out if the red flags are flying?