13138-13162 [Archive] - Virtual Jeep Club

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01-03-2004, 08:00 AM

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13138 From: UF RULZ <scoopman_2000@y...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 8:35am
Subject: Re: Saturday Run - FR42

Been busy Jon, but I need to get my Jeep fix...it's
been too long!

See you on the trail dude.

Aaron
99TJ
--- Tom Patterson <trpsys@s...> wrote:

<HR>
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0
transitional//en">
<html>
Jon, I will you on the FR42 run.  I also have an
empty seat.
Tom Patterson
Jon Loveless wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>So far, the
following have said they
will be there. One change - we *will* air down at the
Pay Station, so leave
a couple of extra minutes to do so. (Scott - since
your Jeep is still out
of commission if you want to meet us at the Pay
Station I am sure we could
find you a ride.  I have an extra seat.)
Dale Schuler
 Darren Richards
 Scott Kruize ** probably not
 Aaron (where have you been??)
 Bob Nyberg
 Ken Seipp
 Rick Norman
 Ken (?)
 Randy Davis
 Mike Chatfield
 John Norton
Depart the Pay Station at Bartlett
Lake at about 8AM -
probably done by noon or so.
 <x-sigsep>
</x-sigsep>------------------------------------------
 Jon
Loveless
 (602)432-7860 cell
 (480)816-6240 home
 jonloveless@m...</blockquote>

</html>

=====
Aaron
AKA UF_RULZ
99TJ
Scoopman_2000@y...

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13139 From: Karl Bond <karl.bond@a...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 8:40am
Subject: RE: ignition Help???

I put a ACCEL coil in a ZJ 4.0L. The one I have looks like the stock coil.

-----Original Message-----
From: Keith D. Orr [mailto:korr@zekes.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 5:37 PM
To: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Subject: [az_vjc] ignition Help???

Hello Gang,
I am finally trying to put in my Super Coil (Accel), and I made sure that I
had the right unit, but the wiring harness that they sold me doesn't look
correct. I double checked to make sure that it was the correct part and it
is. Has anyone put in a upgrade coil in a 4.0 FI engine in an XJ?? I know
that the OEM coil has two pegs on the bottom so that when the coil is placed
in it will make contact in the connections in the base. But with the Accel
coil it has the pos/neg connection on the top of the coil. I am in need of
help with this, for I have never done this before, or know anyone that has.
Any help will be greatly appreciated......

thank you,
Casper

13140 From: david oboyle <davidoboyle@h...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 0:06am
Subject: Re: D30 U-joint upgrades??

XJ's are the same as well.. Try fining a 97+ XJ with D30 upfront..
they use the 297 ujoints as well..

Dave
Http://ArizonaXJ.rockcrawler.com

>From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
>Reply-To: tomasr@a...
>To: Dion & Paola <amstaff@e...>
>CC: az_vjc <az_vjc@egroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] D30 U-joint upgrades??
>Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 08:23:09 -0700
>
>Dion,
>
>I think the shafts with the 297 u-joints came only in '95 YJ's with
>ABS. They are hard to find as people who know about this upgrade
>snatch them up as fast as they can. These shafts are completely
>interchangeable with the smaller u-joint shafts. I was lucky to
>find a used one for the driver side of my YJ but I had to buy a new
>one for the passenger side.
>
>-Roger
>
>Dion & Paola wrote:
> >
> > I managed to snap the pass. side U-joint on my 94 YJ which also took out
>the axle stub on that side (two-piece axle with vacuum disconnect). I
>managed to limp through the rest of the trail and drive it home. I've heard
>that any YJ Wrangler with ABS will have the larger 297 U-joints that can
>replace the 260s in my Jeep. Of course I'll also have to replace the outer
>stub as well. Can anyone confirm this? And does anyone have any? If not,
>I'll start the junkyard search tomorrow. TIA.
>
>
>

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13141 From: Daniel Weed <revolvr@a...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 9:42am
Subject: Durango 4x4?

Anyone have any experience with Durango 4x4?

http://www.durango4x4.com/index.htm

Their products look very good and reasonably priced (bumpers, tire
carrier, rocker guards).

Thanks,

-- Dan
Revolvr@a...

13142 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 10:50am
Subject: NO TRESPASSING

I just got off the phone with Tammy Pike from the AZ State Trust Land
office. Many of you know her from attendance at the land use meetings.

I had called her to ask her about a bunch of NO TRESPASSING signs that I
found this past Sunday when wheelin' out near the eastern edge of the P4W
ranch area.

I was leading a group and we had turned off the gravel road to run down the
wash that leads to the start of the trail. We turned out of the wash and
were promptly greeted with 4 new NO TRESPASSING signs posted all around the
trailhead. No names on them, no contact info, nothing. They still had the
Wal-Mart price tags on them.

Tammy is familiar with the area and will check into it for me. She is not
aware of any land sales from AZ Trust in that area. She was very happy that
I was able to give her the GPS coordinates of the exact spot (another great
reason to have one of those little electronic wonders in your Jeep!). She
took my info and will be checking into it. She asked if I would be willing
to personally show her the area if it came down to that....."In a heart
beat" was my response.

So....keep your fingers crossed that this is just some e-hole's (that is
cyber talk for a...well, I think you know what) attempt at closing down our
trails. If so, I will take great pleasure in removing those little signs
and having a little bon-fire in the wash (film at 10:00).

I'll keep the group posted on what I find out.

Stu

If in doubt, "BLOW IT OUT YOUR GORE!" A Busch supporter and proud of it!

Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
http://home.off-road.com/~stu

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13143 From: Domonic Corradin <mr_fixit23@h...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 5:08am
Subject:

I'm Back and I am Still Dangerous...Sorry So Long, Poor as Dirt and couldn't
get to a puter....

Domonic
Mr. Fix-It
Go Topless
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13144 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 11:19am
Subject: gosh....no replies

I thought that someone would have fired back a response on how I spelled
"Busch" at the end of my last post. (Busch = Beer Bush = Presidential
Candidate) I am a Busch supporter....and I'll vote for Bush this fall! Oh
well, so much for dry humor!

Stu

Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
http://home.off-road.com/~stu

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13145 From: Blair Bendler <blairb@r...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 11:34am
Subject: UPS experience...

This is a little off-topic but I figured that it makes for an interesting
story. I made contact with someone through usenet who wanted to trade me his
half-steel doors and upper sliders for my full steel doors. So I went to
Mailboxes, Etc. and had them ship them out. It cost a pretty penny just for
packaging. Well, the guy sent me pics of the doors when they got there.
Needless to say, they were trashed. UPS told him that they "aren't a moving
company" and that either he or Mailboxes, Etc. are responsible for the poor
packaging (he paid for shipping). Mailboxes, etc is claiming no
resposibility. Makes you feel all giddy about UPS, doesn't it? I know it
makes me feel that way.

-Blair

13146 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 0:08pm
Subject: RE: UPS experience...

First question....was insurance purchased when the doors where shipped? If
so, time to collect. Also, ask UPS just what they call it when making a box
shipped from "City A" appear several days later in "City B". Gosh, it sure
sounds like they are moving freight to me. If the package/packaging was
accepted by UPS (it obviously was), then it obviously met their standards
for shipping. If you paid Mailboxes for packing up the doors, then they are
responsible....just as if you had paid a mechanic to fix your Jeep and he
did it wrong.

Stu

Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
http://home.off-road.com/~stu

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Blair Bendler [mailto:blairb@r...]
>Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 11:35
>To: azvjc
>Subject: [az_vjc] UPS experience...
>
>
>This is a little off-topic but I figured that it makes for an interesting
>story. I made contact with someone through usenet who wanted to
>trade me his
>half-steel doors and upper sliders for my full steel doors. So I went to
>Mailboxes, Etc. and had them ship them out. It cost a pretty penny just for
>packaging. Well, the guy sent me pics of the doors when they got there.
>Needless to say, they were trashed. UPS told him that they "aren't a moving
>company" and that either he or Mailboxes, Etc. are responsible for the poor
>packaging (he paid for shipping). Mailboxes, etc is claiming no
>resposibility. Makes you feel all giddy about UPS, doesn't it? I know it
>makes me feel that way.
>
>-Blair
>
>
>
>
>

13147 From: david oboyle <davidoboyle@h...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 0:11am
Subject: Re: Lift question

He should be ok with 4inches on the older modles.. 95 and newer tend to need
the SYE on anything over 3inches..
I use a degreed block in the rear to help avoid vibrations...
If he needs any info please have him check out
Http://ArizonaXJ.Rockcrawler.com
The Arizona XJ club..

Dave

>From: grafik_lar@y...
>To: az_vjc@egroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Lift question
>Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 17:35:31 -0000
>
>I know I am full of questions today but Need to know, My little
>brother want's to go out four wheeling with us, He has an 84 Cherokee
>Two door, he is getting a rancho 4" inch I think it is, Is there
>anythin we need to know about anythin, as far as SYE, SHiming the
>Axle. or anything that may be a problem.
>
>Sincerely: Larry 87 Wrangler Sport "IT"S A JEEP THANG"
>
>
>
>

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13148 From: Thomas Jacobson <Tjacobs@I...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 0:56pm
Subject: RE: possible trip to Bulldog Canyon on 9-30

Devon,

I'm gonna copy this to the list so that the trip list for Rocker Panel gets
updated as well. But I won't be able to make the RPP run this weekend
either. My Jeep needs to remain a daily driver until my wife's new vehicle
gets in so I can't risk doing too much damage right now! Also need to keep
it in shape for the ASA4WDC deal later in the month.

I don't know what my plans are for this weekend, though....just got back to
town yesterday, so haven't ran anything by the boss (ie. wife) yet. I have
family in already or arriving Saturday, but we were planning to take them
out next weekend (something easy like Bulldog or Box Canyon). Let me
discuss things tonight and see if wheeling is a possibility for this
Saturday. If you decide to hook up with one of the other groups...no
problem. I'll see you and everyone else another time.

Tom Jacobson

-----Original Message-----
From: Devon Whitney [mailto:a74cj6@a...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 7:29 AM
To: Thomas Jacobson
Subject: possible trip to Bulldog Canyon on 9-30

Tom,

I'm not sure what you finally decided regarding Rocker Panel Pass,
but if you opted out, would you be willing to run Bulldog instead if
your permit it still valid? I'm looking to stay on the east side of
town for the 30th and a run ending at the river would be a extra
bonus.

Please let me know if you're interested.

Thanx,

Devon

13149 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 1:31pm
Subject: RE: Information on No Trespassing Signs on Old P4W Ranch

Kurt,

Thank you very much for your response. I wish it did not include the
information you passed along, but that is not your fault. ;^(

I am not an old veteran of the area, but have wheeled enough there over the
past year to realize that much has been lost. I guess I can consider myself
lucky to have experienced the challenges the area afforded me while I was
able to do so.

From your description, it sounds as though the area going from Carburetor
Hill all the way north to Wishbone and almost up to the gravel pit is now
off limits?

I assume the area between Wishbone and going west towards Jack's Rock and
Tom's Hill is also included in the area that this individual owns? (please
confirm this if you can)

I don't wish to cause this person (or our 4 wheeling community) any problems
by showing up in some area that I am not suppose to be in.

I assume the owner is not open to entertaining a request by a club or
individual to wheel on his property.

Any comments towards my above questions is appreciated. I am cc:ing my club
on this as many of them recreate in that area (or I guess I should say they
did recreate).

Stu

Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
http://home.off-road.com/~stu

>
>Stu,
>
>One of our P4W members forwarded me your e-mail about the No Trespassing =
>signs along the east end of the old P4W ranch (the west side of Picacho =
>Wash, the wash that runs into the Gravel Pit). The person that owns the =
>old P4W Ranch owns the property all the way to Picacho wash and last =
>year he purchased the section that included Carburetor Hill. One of our =
>members has my map but the owner owns the three sections starting at =
>Carburetor Hill going North (from the fence line), and the next 2 =
>sections going west of those 3 sections. He has 9 sections in all that =
>make up a square. It looks like he is finally posting it as No =
>Trespassing and has the right to do it.
>
>You now have to go up the wash past the Gravel Pit to get North of his =
>property or four wheel East of Picacho Wash. You also have to stay away =
>from the Golf Course and out of the Gravel Pit.
>
>Call me if you have questions. And yes, we lost a lot of good trails.
>
>Kurt Loga
>President
>Phoenix Four Wheelers
>Home Phone: 602-581-9181
>E-Mail: logaks@h...

13150 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 2:02pm
Subject: Re: RE: Information on No Trespassing Signs on Old P4W Ranch

Er, uh. BTW- Stu: I took the liberty of forwarding your original email
to Kurt Loga, president of P4W. Hope you don't mind. He is very
knowledgable about the area in question.

Stu Olson wrote:
>
> Kurt,
>
> Thank you very much for your response. I wish it did not include the
> information you passed along, but that is not your fault. ;^(
>
> I am not an old veteran of the area, but have wheeled enough there over the
> past year to realize that much has been lost. I guess I can consider myself
> lucky to have experienced the challenges the area afforded me while I was
> able to do so.
>
> >From your description, it sounds as though the area going from Carburetor
> Hill all the way north to Wishbone and almost up to the gravel pit is now
> off limits?
>
> I assume the area between Wishbone and going west towards Jack's Rock and
> Tom's Hill is also included in the area that this individual owns? (please
> confirm this if you can)
>
> I don't wish to cause this person (or our 4 wheeling community) any problems
> by showing up in some area that I am not suppose to be in.
>
> I assume the owner is not open to entertaining a request by a club or
> individual to wheel on his property.
>
> Any comments towards my above questions is appreciated. I am cc:ing my club
> on this as many of them recreate in that area (or I guess I should say they
> did recreate).
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson N7QJP
> Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
> http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
> http://home.off-road.com/~stu
>
> >
> >Stu,
> >
> >One of our P4W members forwarded me your e-mail about the No Trespassing =
> >signs along the east end of the old P4W ranch (the west side of Picacho =
> >Wash, the wash that runs into the Gravel Pit). The person that owns the =
> >old P4W Ranch owns the property all the way to Picacho wash and last =
> >year he purchased the section that included Carburetor Hill. One of our =
> >members has my map but the owner owns the three sections starting at =
> >Carburetor Hill going North (from the fence line), and the next 2 =
> >sections going west of those 3 sections. He has 9 sections in all that =
> >make up a square. It looks like he is finally posting it as No =
> >Trespassing and has the right to do it.
> >
> >You now have to go up the wash past the Gravel Pit to get North of his =
> >property or four wheel East of Picacho Wash. You also have to stay away =
> >from the Golf Course and out of the Gravel Pit.
> >
> >Call me if you have questions. And yes, we lost a lot of good trails.
> >
> >Kurt Loga
> >President
> >Phoenix Four Wheelers
> >Home Phone: 602-581-9181
> >E-Mail: logaks@h...

13151 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 2:13pm
Subject: RE: RE: Information on No Trespassing Signs on Old P4W Ranch

Dave,

I am glad you did forward it and thanks very much for doing so! It got me
an answer, albeit not the one I was looking for, much faster than Tammy
would have been able to do for me (she said give he a week).

I am really sad to see this area slip away. I can only guess how the P4W
folks felt when they were not able to renew their lease (this is how it was
explained to me).

All the more reason to work on keeping open what is still public land.
Obviously, once it is private land, the chances of using it are virtually
zip, unless you offer big $$$ to the land owner. (shades of these ORV parks
from out East!)

Stu

Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
http://home.off-road.com/~stu

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Daver [mailto:daver@c...]
>Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 14:03
>To: Stu Olson
>Cc: az_vjc
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] RE: Information on No Trespassing Signs on Old P4W
>Ranch
>
>
>Er, uh. BTW- Stu: I took the liberty of forwarding your original email
>to Kurt Loga, president of P4W. Hope you don't mind. He is very
>knowledgable about the area in question.
>
>Stu Olson wrote:
>>
>> Kurt,
>>
>> Thank you very much for your response. I wish it did not include the
>> information you passed along, but that is not your fault. ;^(
>>
>> I am not an old veteran of the area, but have wheeled enough
>there over the
>> past year to realize that much has been lost. I guess I can
>consider myself
>> lucky to have experienced the challenges the area afforded me while I was
>> able to do so.
>>
>> >From your description, it sounds as though the area going from
>Carburetor
>> Hill all the way north to Wishbone and almost up to the gravel pit is now
>> off limits?
>>
>> I assume the area between Wishbone and going west towards Jack's Rock and
>> Tom's Hill is also included in the area that this individual
>owns? (please
>> confirm this if you can)
>>
>> I don't wish to cause this person (or our 4 wheeling community)
>any problems
>> by showing up in some area that I am not suppose to be in.
>>
>> I assume the owner is not open to entertaining a request by a club or
>> individual to wheel on his property.
>>
>> Any comments towards my above questions is appreciated. I am
>cc:ing my club
>> on this as many of them recreate in that area (or I guess I
>should say they
>> did recreate).
>>
>> Stu
>>
>> Stu Olson N7QJP
>> Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
>> http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
>> http://home.off-road.com/~stu
>>
>> >
>> >Stu,
>> >
>> >One of our P4W members forwarded me your e-mail about the No
>Trespassing =
>> >signs along the east end of the old P4W ranch (the west side of
>Picacho =
>> >Wash, the wash that runs into the Gravel Pit). The person that
>owns the =
>> >old P4W Ranch owns the property all the way to Picacho wash and last =
>> >year he purchased the section that included Carburetor Hill.
>One of our =
>> >members has my map but the owner owns the three sections starting at =
>> >Carburetor Hill going North (from the fence line), and the next 2 =
>> >sections going west of those 3 sections. He has 9 sections in
>all that =
>> >make up a square. It looks like he is finally posting it as No =
>> >Trespassing and has the right to do it.
>> >
>> >You now have to go up the wash past the Gravel Pit to get North of his =
>> >property or four wheel East of Picacho Wash. You also have to
>stay away =
>> >from the Golf Course and out of the Gravel Pit.
>> >
>> >Call me if you have questions. And yes, we lost a lot of good trails.
>> >
>> >Kurt Loga
>> >President
>> >Phoenix Four Wheelers
>> >Home Phone: 602-581-9181
>> >E-Mail: logaks@h...
>

13152 From: Chatfield, Mike <mchat@h...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 2:15pm
Subject: Christmas Party

Hey All,

What kind of interest is there in having an Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Christmas Party?

Some thoughts:

1. Dates. Best bet would be to have it one of the first two weekends in
December. Also since many AzVJCers also belong to other clubs, it would be
wise to ensure that our date doesn't conflict with the majority of these.
Also I think this should be a weekend campout, for those desiring to stay
overnight. Saturday would be the main day with short morning trail runs and
a potluck afternoon/evening, possibly a night run for those interested.
Sunday could be more trail runs followed by a camp cleanup.

2. Where: State Land vs. Az State Trust Land vs US Forest. What are the
pros and cons of each? What fees are applicable for each? What permits are
required for each? Also since the majority of AzVJCers are either in the
Phoenix area or the Tucson area, someplace between Phoenix and Tucson?

3. Gifts: Have a "Dirty Santa" participate-if-you-want-to gift exchange
for the adults. A "real" Santa for the younger kids.

This could be a great time to meet all those AzVJCers that you haven't
managed to catch a trail with.

What do you think?

- Mike

13153 From: Thomas Jacobson <Tjacobs@I...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 4:10pm
Subject: RE: Digest Number 320

Larry George -

You shouldn't let your D35/D30 axle combo keep you from running some of the
trails in the Florence area. There are some fun, but somewhat easier
trails, that give you an idea of what the area has to offer without putting
you in danger of breakin yer stuff. I'm thinkin of Box Canyon, Martinez
Canyon (to the camp or up to the Mill), Coke Ovens, Pictograph and Jack
Handle(?). I also run the same axle combo in my '87, but with 33's. The
fact that you are unlocked (as am I...for now!) probably helps to avoid
breakages in certain situations where we'll spin a tire instead of forcing
all power through only one axle shaft.

See ya up here sometime?

Tom J.

13154 From: Dion Bozman <amstaff@e...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 4:15pm
Subject: Updated T-shirt designs

Hi everyone: After requesting feedback on my initial T-shirt designs for
the group. After sifting through the input, I found a couple prevalent
themes. These are reflected in the next group of two shirts (front and
back, each). As before, I welcome more input before we finalize one design.
Send e-mail directly to me (not to the list) at amstaff@e... and
let me know which one you like, what you would change, etc. Remember, I did
these on white T-shirts, but we can always do light gray, taupe, or
off-white shirts that may be more stylish yet still wearable in the sun.
Here the link, enjoy:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=850496&a=6184131

Dion, 94 YJ Sahara

13155 From: Jon Loveless <jonloveless@m...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 4:44pm
Subject: add your Jeep pic

If you haven't checked lately, Tom and Mike are doing a great job with our web site. I counted over 90 names in the "our Rigs" section. Not all had photos but I would like to encourage everyone to get a picture up there. I have found it both fun and useful to look at the Jeeps that will be coming on a run. And also to figure out who you saw charging down the freeway with a sticker.

Thanks Tom and Mike.

------------------------------------------
Jon Loveless
(602)432-7860 cell
(480)816-6240 home
jonloveless@mindspring.com

13156 From: Rick Hall <ricknhall@h...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 5:00pm
Subject: Locker Shimmy

When I posted this up before no one responded that it was strange so I figured it was part of driving with a locker. I am probably the only one with a locker who didn't know this but just in case...

I have always had limited slip lockers so when I got my first no slip I noticed a little shimmy when I shifted gears. I thought it was normal because others had mentioned the same thing. Well I called a friend of mine in NM who is kinda a Yoda of lockers and he laughed at me. "Check your tire pressure they need to be exactly the same". If that doesn't fix it measure the tire from the ground to the top of the rim (that should be the same as well). DUH shimmy's gone and I'm embarrassed.

Rick

13157 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 5:10pm
Subject: Re: Christmas Party

Great Idea! Maybe somewhere over in the Mineral Mountain area
(Florence/Florence Junction) so it's a little close to our Tucson
Members...just a thought.

Doug

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chatfield, Mike" <mchat@h...>
To: <az_vjc@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 2:15 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Christmas Party

> Hey All,
>
> What kind of interest is there in having an Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
> Christmas Party?
>
> Some thoughts:
>
> 1. Dates. Best bet would be to have it one of the first two weekends in
> December. Also since many AzVJCers also belong to other clubs, it would
be
> wise to ensure that our date doesn't conflict with the majority of these.
> Also I think this should be a weekend campout, for those desiring to stay
> overnight. Saturday would be the main day with short morning trail runs
and
> a potluck afternoon/evening, possibly a night run for those interested.
> Sunday could be more trail runs followed by a camp cleanup.
>
> 2. Where: State Land vs. Az State Trust Land vs US Forest. What are the
> pros and cons of each? What fees are applicable for each? What permits
are
> required for each? Also since the majority of AzVJCers are either in the
> Phoenix area or the Tucson area, someplace between Phoenix and Tucson?
>
> 3. Gifts: Have a "Dirty Santa" participate-if-you-want-to gift exchange
> for the adults. A "real" Santa for the younger kids.
>
> This could be a great time to meet all those AzVJCers that you haven't
> managed to catch a trail with.
>
> What do you think?
>
> - Mike
>
>
>
>
>

13158 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 5:10pm
Subject: FW: Information on No Trespassing Signs on Old P4W Ranch

For those of you that liked to run the old P4W ranch trails....read below.

For those of you coming into the middle of this discussion, myself and a
group of friends found newly posted NO TRESPASSING signs this past Sunday on
a trail head that we had been doing summer night runs on.

So, for those of you who were lucky enough to do Wishbone, Hell of a Hill,
Jack's Rock, etc. this summer on our night runs....congrats! We obviously
won't be running them any more. Gee...that means those trail reports on my
web site are historical data now....probably trails that will never be ran
again. Bummers!

Stu

Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
http://home.off-road.com/~stu

-----Original Message-----
From: Susan Loga [mailto:logaks@h...]
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 16:52
To: Stu Olson
Subject: Re: Information on No Trespassing Signs on Old P4W Ranch

Stu,

You are correct, we lost everything west of Picacho Wash all the way up to
the Gravel Pit. This includes Wishbone, Kangaroo, Jack's Rock, Tom's Hill,
V8 Hill, Carburetor Hill, Gleason Hill, etc, etc. Jack's Rock is about half
way into his property going West.

We asked the owner when he bought the land if we could lease it back and his
answer was no and that it would be closed off. The entrance to our old camp
area has been locked since he bought it along with No Trespassing signs.

Kurt Loga

----- Original Message -----
From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
To: Susan Loga <logaks@h...>
Cc: az_vjc <az_vjc@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 1:31 PM
Subject: RE: Information on No Trespassing Signs on Old P4W Ranch

> Kurt,
>
> Thank you very much for your response. I wish it did not include the
> information you passed along, but that is not your fault. ;^(
>
> I am not an old veteran of the area, but have wheeled enough there over
the
> past year to realize that much has been lost. I guess I can consider
myself
> lucky to have experienced the challenges the area afforded me while I was
> able to do so.
>
> From your description, it sounds as though the area going from Carburetor
> Hill all the way north to Wishbone and almost up to the gravel pit is now
> off limits?
>
> I assume the area between Wishbone and going west towards Jack's Rock and
> Tom's Hill is also included in the area that this individual owns?
(please
> confirm this if you can)
>
> I don't wish to cause this person (or our 4 wheeling community) any
problems
> by showing up in some area that I am not suppose to be in.
>
> I assume the owner is not open to entertaining a request by a club or
> individual to wheel on his property.
>
> Any comments towards my above questions is appreciated. I am cc:ing my
club
> on this as many of them recreate in that area (or I guess I should say
they
> did recreate).
>
> Stu
>
>
>
> Stu Olson N7QJP
> Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
> http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
> http://home.off-road.com/~stu
>
> >
> >Stu,
> >
> >One of our P4W members forwarded me your e-mail about the No Trespassing
=
> >signs along the east end of the old P4W ranch (the west side of Picacho =
> >Wash, the wash that runs into the Gravel Pit). The person that owns the
=
> >old P4W Ranch owns the property all the way to Picacho wash and last =
> >year he purchased the section that included Carburetor Hill. One of our
=
> >members has my map but the owner owns the three sections starting at =
> >Carburetor Hill going North (from the fence line), and the next 2 =
> >sections going west of those 3 sections. He has 9 sections in all that =
> >make up a square. It looks like he is finally posting it as No =
> >Trespassing and has the right to do it.
> >
> >You now have to go up the wash past the Gravel Pit to get North of his =
> >property or four wheel East of Picacho Wash. You also have to stay away
=
> >from the Golf Course and out of the Gravel Pit.
> >
> >Call me if you have questions. And yes, we lost a lot of good trails.
> >
> >Kurt Loga
> >President
> >Phoenix Four Wheelers
> >Home Phone: 602-581-9181
> >E-Mail: logaks@h...
>

13159 From: <flatfenderman@a...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 1:16pm
Subject: JAW BREAKER TRAIL REPORT

It has been a busy week but I have finally been able to update the Jaw
Breaker trail report on my web site to show last weekends run. There is
action shots of all 7 Jeeps on the run and details of the carnage. Check it
out at www.azrocks.alloffroad.com

Chris Lewis

13160 From: Mike <mchat@h...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 5:16pm
Subject: RE: Christmas Party

That's kind of the area I was thinking too.
I wonder what kind of fees would be involved to use the Jamboree site?
Plus with the variety and number of trails out there, there'd be something
for everyone.

-----Original Message-----
From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@h...]
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 5:10 PM
To: az_vjc@egroups.com; Chatfield, Mike
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Christmas Party

Great Idea! Maybe somewhere over in the Mineral Mountain area
(Florence/Florence Junction) so it's a little close to our Tucson
Members...just a thought.

Doug

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chatfield, Mike" <mchat@h...>
To: <az_vjc@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 2:15 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Christmas Party

> Hey All,
>
> What kind of interest is there in having an Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
> Christmas Party?
>
> Some thoughts:
>
> 1. Dates. Best bet would be to have it one of the first two weekends in
> December. Also since many AzVJCers also belong to other clubs, it would
be
> wise to ensure that our date doesn't conflict with the majority of these.
> Also I think this should be a weekend campout, for those desiring to stay
> overnight. Saturday would be the main day with short morning trail runs
and
> a potluck afternoon/evening, possibly a night run for those interested.
> Sunday could be more trail runs followed by a camp cleanup.
>
> 2. Where: State Land vs. Az State Trust Land vs US Forest. What are the
> pros and cons of each? What fees are applicable for each? What permits
are
> required for each? Also since the majority of AzVJCers are either in the
> Phoenix area or the Tucson area, someplace between Phoenix and Tucson?
>
> 3. Gifts: Have a "Dirty Santa" participate-if-you-want-to gift exchange
> for the adults. A "real" Santa for the younger kids.
>
> This could be a great time to meet all those AzVJCers that you haven't
> managed to catch a trail with.
>
> What do you think?
>
> - Mike
>
>
>
>
>

13161 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 5:41pm
Subject: Re: Christmas Party

No fees. It is, however, State Trust Land. I have a general use permit, as
do other members in the club. I really don't think we'd have much to worry
about.

Doug

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike" <mchat@h...>
To: <az_vjc@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 5:16 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Christmas Party

> That's kind of the area I was thinking too.
> I wonder what kind of fees would be involved to use the Jamboree site?
> Plus with the variety and number of trails out there, there'd be something
> for everyone.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DougB [mailto:azjeep@h...]
> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 5:10 PM
> To: az_vjc@egroups.com; Chatfield, Mike
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Christmas Party
>
> Great Idea! Maybe somewhere over in the Mineral Mountain area
> (Florence/Florence Junction) so it's a little close to our Tucson
> Members...just a thought.
>
> Doug
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chatfield, Mike" <mchat@h...>
> To: <az_vjc@egroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 2:15 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Christmas Party
>
>
> > Hey All,
> >
> > What kind of interest is there in having an Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
> > Christmas Party?
> >
> > Some thoughts:
> >
> > 1. Dates. Best bet would be to have it one of the first two weekends
in
> > December. Also since many AzVJCers also belong to other clubs, it would
> be
> > wise to ensure that our date doesn't conflict with the majority of
these.
> > Also I think this should be a weekend campout, for those desiring to
stay
> > overnight. Saturday would be the main day with short morning trail runs
> and
> > a potluck afternoon/evening, possibly a night run for those interested.
> > Sunday could be more trail runs followed by a camp cleanup.
> >
> > 2. Where: State Land vs. Az State Trust Land vs US Forest. What are
the
> > pros and cons of each? What fees are applicable for each? What permits
> are
> > required for each? Also since the majority of AzVJCers are either in the
> > Phoenix area or the Tucson area, someplace between Phoenix and Tucson?
> >
> > 3. Gifts: Have a "Dirty Santa" participate-if-you-want-to gift
exchange
> > for the adults. A "real" Santa for the younger kids.
> >
> > This could be a great time to meet all those AzVJCers that you haven't
> > managed to catch a trail with.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > - Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

13162 From: <aphrodsyak@a...>
Date: Thu Sep 28, 2000 2:03pm
Subject: this weekend tough run

anyone up for a solid 4.0 run this weekend??? Is the rocker panel pass one
dead??? I would like to go on sat or sun.. lets get some wheelin done.. any
takers???