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View Full Version : Crown King trail maintenance



Sedona Jeep School
02-23-2005, 06:24 PM
This thread started in the General Discussion section. For those of you who haven't followed it, it came to our attention that the Crown King road (backway) has suffered from all of the moisture to the point of impassability. Many members have expressed interest in participating in adopting the trail. The general discussion has been to aim for late spring to commence repair efforts.

I spoke with a very helpful straight-shooter at the Forest Service today. Apparently, the Adopt-a-Trail Program proved to be illegal, and has been scrapped for now. BUT, we can apply for a Road Use Permit, which would grant us the ability to repair and maintain within certain parameters (all of which were very reasonable). It will take some time, as the application must be signed off by each of the department heads. But, the sooner we apply the more likely we are to get a quicker approval, before high-season starts.

Here is one catch: They need someone from the representative club to be the signer and contactee to take responsibility for the proper conduct of the club under the Road Use Permit. I hesitate to volunteer because: A) I am involved in the commercial use permit process, and there is a potential for perceived conflict; and B) be responsible for YOU GUYS?!? Yikes! C) As a non-organized club, it may be better to take on this responsibility through one of our organized clubs?

Volunteers? Nominees? Input?

KingGlamis
02-23-2005, 07:43 PM
Isn't it ironic that people want to help fix a trail... actually do some good, and they wan't someone to be responsible for "keeping the group in line?" Too funny, but par for the course when dealing with a government agency. What do they think, we would fill in the wash outs with desert tortoise shells? ;) :D Just kidding of course.

But I digress...

Can't help you with a nominee for the job as I am new here. But I would be happy to help with the labor portion of the project once it is organized.

Doug

BobnJeep
02-23-2005, 08:12 PM
Isn't it ironic that people want to help fix a trail... actually do some good, and they wan't someone to be responsible for "keeping the group in line?"

I think this is actually a good thing. Someone could take earth from the side of the road, including Cacti and shrubs which would make us look bad, and give ammunition to the "Cacti Huggers" to discredit us.


What do they think, we would fill in the wash outs with desert tortoise shells? ;) :D Just kidding of course.

Besides, Tortoise shells would cut tires I think. ;)

KingGlamis
02-23-2005, 08:33 PM
I think this is actually a good thing. Someone could take earth from the side of the road, including Cacti and shrubs which would make us look bad, and give ammunition to the "Cacti Huggers" to discredit us.


I understand that. I think most people on this board probably do. My point is they, the Forest Service, don't trust us to understand that.

And BTW... It's always frustrating that Mother Nature can take out a whole hill side, all plants included, yet we get out there with shovels to reconstruct a trail and WE are still the bad guys in the eyes of the tree huggers.

Ugh. We could save the Earth from a meteor strike and the enviros would still blame us for doing something wrong just because we drive off-road. Yet I see them doing nothing to actually preserve nature or restore areas. Hypocrites.

Sedona Jeep School
02-24-2005, 06:42 AM
I think most people on this board probably do. My point is they, the Forest Service, don't trust us to understand that. And BTW... It's always frustrating that Mother Nature can take out a whole hill side, all plants included, yet we get out there with shovels to reconstruct a trail and WE are still the bad guys in the eyes of the tree huggers...
The "radical enviros" (We have to come up with a better name for them, because we are actually more involved with the environment than they are: maybe "armchair outdoorsman"? :D ) Anyways, the far opposite end of the spectrum, hereto known as "enviros", views ANY human intervention in nature as a selfishly anthropomorphic act. Their idea is that us humans should take our place in the natural order of things, quit acting like god, and let the course of natural selection take place (I have to agree with that last part sometimes! :D ) It doesn't matter how careful we are to not disturb cactus roots, or earthworm habitat, or spotted owl pooping grounds--the simple act of picking up a shovel with the intent of changing the pattern of erosion will offend some of the extremists. This is our challenge--picking our fights and finding a middle ground. I think what the USFS asks in this case IS the middle ground--stay within the existing roadway. Actually, their main concern was that we would improve the road to the point that traffic would increase, and they would have another corridor to watch. I laughed and assured them that rougher was better in our opinion, just enough improvement to make it challengingly passable in a Jeep. They really WANT to work with us on this, but have to watch their backs.

I think this is actually a good thing. Someone could take earth from the side of the road, including Cacti and shrubs which would make us look bad, and give ammunition to the "Cacti Huggers" to discredit us. Besides, Tortoise shells would cut tires I think. ;)
"Cacti Huggers"--now THERE'S a dedicated and prickly group! :D And you are right about the tortoise shells, but the meat is delicious! :eek: :D

Sedona Jeep School
02-24-2005, 06:51 AM
They need someone from the representative club to be the signer and contactee to take responsibility for the proper conduct of the club under the Road Use Permit. I hesitate to volunteer because: A) I am involved in the commercial use permit process, and there is a potential for perceived conflict; and B) be responsible for YOU GUYS?!? Yikes! C) As a non-organized club, it may be better to take on this responsibility through one of our organized clubs?
(Quoting myself!)
Just to clarify--I will coordinate the paperwork and the physical labor, but we need at least a figurehead for this project...Hackle? ideas?

My1stJeep
02-24-2005, 06:54 AM
We have a better name for them, "Eco-Terrorists". :D

jeepsonly
02-24-2005, 08:17 AM
I'm in if someone organizes it.

Sedona Jeep School
03-07-2005, 05:33 PM
There have been numerous reports from AZVJC and other club members that the trail IS passable, though tougher than it was before this wet winter.

These reports have coincided with my receiving the paperwork for a Road Use Permit. To me, it looks exactly like the commercial permit paperwork, which, I might add, is not the most fun thing to do on a Sunday afternoon. Plus, it is apparent from the paperwork that an organized entity would be necessary in order to really make it happen. Since AZVJC is decidedly UN-organized (and I mean that in a good way :D ) perhaps this "official" project is a waste of time.

Since the road is passable, it would seem that the urgency and interest in acquiring permission to repair the road has diminished anyway.

If anyone feels differently, or has anything to add, I welcome your voice. :)

frog
03-07-2005, 08:08 PM
sounds like maybe the water improved the trail :D

ScoobyDoo
03-08-2005, 07:44 AM
And you are right about the tortoise shells, but the meat is delicious! :eek: :D
They taste alot like spotted brown owl. :D

So who's up for a crown king run this weekend ????

Crawldit
03-08-2005, 10:09 AM
We're headed out there on Saturday with some friends. You're more than welcome to come. I'll shoot you a PM when I get the meeting time/place. :cool:

OlneyJeeps
03-08-2005, 09:10 PM
I was told by another member that there is an alternative route (to crown king) starting at table mesa road

Any one?

Triple-XJ
03-11-2005, 11:34 AM
I was told by another member that there is an alternative route (to crown king) starting at table mesa road

Any one?

If your talking about going past Milk Ranch, thats overgrown and now a hikeing trail up thru Horse Theif and then it opens up.

BUT,
Just past Tip Top mine you could head West and hit the CK road ;)

Stu Olson
03-15-2005, 08:13 PM
And the trail that leaves the Milk Ranch towards CK also passes through a wilderness area......so it is a hiking trail for sure. ;)

OlneyJeeps
03-15-2005, 09:21 PM
at ora-belle mine the damage is incredibly severe.... you could fit a couple of school busses in the "rut" that was carved. Due to the depth and size of rocks not even the most sever 4x4 could traverse (too narrow with very high/sheer sides). The bypass that was "cut" (yes I hate when that happens, but ther was no other alternative shy of a few dozen sticks of dynamite and a dozer) (P.S. I did not cut) just goew up to what was apperantly the road before (stacked embankment) or rail road bed.

ScoobyDoo
03-16-2005, 12:12 PM
So by using the bypass at ora-belle the trail all the way to Crown King is passable right ?

OlneyJeeps
03-16-2005, 10:29 PM
It is passable but trecherous :don't do it alone. One wrong step=really bad
I did it with XJ: 4" lift, 31 BFG AT KO, locker in rear. Saw a stock 84 ish FS bronco w/31/s strugle hard (stuck couple of times) through it, late model Chevy w/lift+33 MT's get stuck bad. I was just careful, prepared, lucky.
Lots of challenging fun! want to do again soon w/CJ7

Crawldit
03-17-2005, 10:12 AM
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/blamclep2/album?.dir=/c1d6&.src=ph&.tok=phep2qCBJFkF2Fsv

Here are some pictures from what will happen if you take a wrong step :D This run was on the 12th, I was supposed to be there but had something come up. My friend sent me these.

OlneyJeeps
03-17-2005, 07:30 PM
what was he thinking (drinking....I want some)? :D
6 full size trucks (well actually 5... the Bronco fell in when he was turning the corner at the end) got by that rut :confused: :D
I thought Cory wasn't going to take his XJ.... how did it do?