blooddrive
01-03-2004, 07:47 AM
12438-12462 of 96476 | Previous | Next [ First | Last ] Msg # Date | Thread
12438 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Thu Sep 7, 2000 9:38pm
Subject: Re: steering box removal
Rent a Gorilla....or use an impact gun to get the nut off. For the arm
itself, you'll need a good size pitman arm puller. It'll come off w/ a loud
BANG. Sometimes, getting the puller on and under pressure, then smacking the
arm (at the shaft) will help pop it off.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "LindaL" <minihummer@w...>
To: <az_vjc@egroups.com>; "xj_az" <arizonaXJ@egroups.com>; "zj-list"
<zj-list@m...>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 9:13 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] steering box removal
> Anyone have any handy hints for breaking free a pitman arm nut that's
> torqued on at 185 ft-lbs?
> Linda
>
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
12439 From: Hal Loy <tucsonhal@e...>
Date: Thu Sep 7, 2000 9:39pm
Subject: Re: steering box removal
Hi Linda,
I borrow a pitman arm puller from AutoZone, they have a tool loaner
program, and to pull the nut itself I use a 24" pipe wrench, (the jaws
tighten under torque), with a high-lift handle for extra leverage. So far
this method has worked every time for me.
Hal Loy
Tucson Rough Riders
AZ Virtual Jeep Club
ASA4WDC
tucsonhal@e...
12440 From: Len Sullivan <kermit@e...>
Date: Thu Sep 7, 2000 9:50pm
Subject: re: steering box removal
Hi Linda
several ideas for you:
1 - liquid wrench is your friend
if you're planning on removing the arm this weekend, start soaking the
threads/nut in liquid wrench, wd40, or pb blaster NOW
2 - impact tools
most equipment rental stores will rent you an electric impact wrench for
about $20 a day -- the last time i used one was to remove the gland nut on
a VW flywheel......VW doesn't use a ring of small nuts to hold their
flywheels on........they use one big momma torqued to 205 ft lbs. I fought
with it for about an hour, then gave up and rented an impact. With the
impact it took less than 15 seconds...............
3 - Archimedes
this one takes an extra pair of hands -- have a friend hold a
ratchet/socket on the nut while you slip the handle of your hi-lift jack
over the handle of the ratchet and use it as a cheater bar..........
I recommend 1&2........#3 tends to break things. After my experience with
the VW gland nut I bought a Craftsman compressor and an air powered impact.
It more than paid for itself in the time it saved me when I did my lift.
You're welcome to come over here and use my impact gun, but you would need
to do the entire replacent procedure here 'cuz once that nut comes off the
truck has to stay wherever it is until your finished and it's torqued back
down.
You only think you're having fun now........just wait 'till you try to get
the pitman arm off of the shaft :-)
hope this helps
Len
-----Original Message-----
From: LindaL <minihummer@w...>
To: az_vjc@egroups.com <az_vjc@egroups.com>; xj_az <arizonaXJ@egroups.com>;
zj-list <zj-list@m...>
Date: Thursday, September 07, 2000 9:05 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] steering box removal
>Anyone have any handy hints for breaking free a pitman arm nut that's
>torqued on at 185 ft-lbs?
>Linda
12441 From: Bill White <jeepthg@a...>
Date: Thu Sep 7, 2000 9:52pm
Subject: friday or saturday night runs?
I am planning on doing a night run this weekend. Trail will be at
least a 4. Not sure where or what night, will depend on who wants to
attend. Drop an email if interested and what trail....night.
12442 From: ebnhils:First ebnhils:Last <ebnhils@e...>
Date: Thu Sep 7, 2000 9:55pm
Subject: Re: TR on Sat, Sept. 30th ??
I have never done Rocker Panel Pass but would be interested in going along
if possible. Let me know the details.
Eben
----- Original Message -----
From: Devon Whitney <a74cj6@a...>
To: <az_vjc@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 7:52 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] TR on Sat, Sept. 30th ??
> I've got family visiting for the weekend of September 30th. Whenever
> they visit, my wife makes me take them out Jeeping. And because
> there are so many of them this time I've got to go twice in one
> weekend. Oh the sacrifice. Anyway, I've been looking for a trail
> kind of close by (did B.A. with them last year & don't want to go
> that far this time) and came up with a couple ideas. Rocker Panel
> Pass, Bulldog Canyon, Box Canyon/Coke Ovens, or something else I just
> don't know about. (although ending at a river sounds pretty enticing
> right now)
>
> I know someone had the combo for Bulldog so it's a possibility (if
> they can make it) and I've also done Box Canyon but I'd rather do
> Rocker Panel because I've never been there before. So, the question
> is, would someone like to be lead for Rocker Panel Pass on 9-30? Or,
> my second question, would anyone like to be lead on any other semi-
> close trail on the 30th? The second day I'm going out is Monday,
> October 2nd and was just planning on repeating the same run as the
> 30th but anyone else is welcome to join on that day too.
>
> Thought I'd get the ball rolling so if anyone can lead one of these
> trails let me know. Once we get a leader we can post something for
> the rest of the group.
>
> Regards,
>
> Devon
> 1974 CJ-6
> a74cj6@a...
> www.5pillars.com/ucan2
> www.homestead.com/a74cj6
>
>
>
>
>
>
12443 From: ebnhils:First ebnhils:Last <ebnhils@e...>
Date: Thu Sep 7, 2000 10:08pm
Subject: Upper Woodpecker 9/10 Sunday
A group from the XJ List and I are planning on finishing Upper Woodpecker, the trail we started last Sunday before my Crank Sensor died (of all things!!). We will more than likely be meeting at the Gold Canyon Ranch Texaco between 7:30 and 8:00 am on Sunday morning. If you are interested, please e-mail me back and let me know. We will be using CB channel 4.
Eben
12444 From: Patrick Stevens <dreamwev@m...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 7:18am
Subject: Jamboree Trails
Well, It looks like I'm going to tail end Predator for the Jamboree. They
still need a trip leader. The previous person dropped out. Anyone around
here done the trail before and want to lead? I would, but I haven't even
done this trail yet.
Patrick
12445 From: Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 8:54am
Subject: RE: steering box removal
Yep,a big whacker and grunt from a large human male like Bill M. ;-)
-----Original Message-----
From: LindaL [mailto:minihummer@w...]
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 9:13 PM
To: az_vjc@egroups.com; xj_az; zj-list
Subject: [az_vjc] steering box removal
Anyone have any handy hints for breaking free a pitman arm nut that's
torqued on at 185 ft-lbs?
Linda
12446 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 9:06am
Subject: Re: Cinder Hills Cleanup 9/16/00
Here's a link to a map.
Being my typical self, never one to get something new when I've gotta a
perfectly good old one lying around, I've used a really old map. It has
already been re-used several times over the last three years. The new
info is in red.
http://p4w.uuuuuudotcom.com/cinders_gif.gif
Daver wrote:
>
> Daver wrote:
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > From: Terry Heslin <theslin@p...>
> > <snip>
> > The Cinder Hills Rough Riders invite everyone to participate in the 3rd
> > annual Cinder Hills Cleanup.
> > Saturday, September 16, at 10 a.m.
> > Make it a day trip or camp out.
> > Meet at the Playhill on the 777 Road.
>
> Incidently, this is the hill that us Jeepers know as CJ Hill.
>
> I have a map I can post a link to if someone needs further direction.
>
> > For more info please call Larry or Kathy at (520) 526-8853 before 6 p.m.
> > or CinderhillsRR@a....
> > <snip>
12447 From: Blake Van de Loo <blake@m...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 1:39pm
Subject:
FREE 1964 Jeep pick up
No engine, trans or transfer case.
Small dent in one door, otherwise straight
Has axels and wheels, tire's are flat.
Blake
12448 From: Blake Van de Loo <blake@m...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 1:48pm
Subject: 1964 jeep P/U
It has been claimed, 1.6 minutes not bad....
-----Original Message-----
From: Blake Van de Loo
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 1:40 PM
To: Az_Vjc (E-mail)
Subject: [az_vjc]
FREE 1964 Jeep pick up
No engine, trans or transfer case.
Small dent in one door, otherwise straight
Has axels and wheels, tire's are flat.
Blake
12449 From: <fourwhlcrzy@a...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 11:35am
Subject: Re: steering box removal
pipe wrench with hi-lift handle always worked for me. If you can, drive to
auto zone so you can check is thier pitman arm puller fits. Sometimes they
dont, especially if you have aftermarket arm. sucks to get home and then
realize.easy with torch if you are going to use steering box again(rebuild),
heats no good for tempered shaft. Good luck
Daren 52 M38
12450 From: <Roxie@t...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 3:47pm
Subject: Stuff for the Jeep Gals...
In case you girls on this list don't know about it, there is a "Jeep Girl Club" - and they do have a great e-list. So, if you want to check it out:
www.jeepgirlclub.com
-Stacy-Michelle
www.thejeepgoddess.com
12451 From: Larry <lmaggio@p...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 4:19pm
Subject: Night run... Saturday the 9th.
We have a handful of VJC'ers heading out to the P4W ranch Saturday night.
We have room for 2 or 3 more Jeeps if someone would like to join us. Email
me and I'll pass out the specifics at that point.
For those not familiar with the area it is located approx. 10 minutes west
of Lake Pleasant. Stu has some writeups on this area...
http://home.off-road.com/~stu/others/other18-1.htm
http://home.off-road.com/~stu/others/other17.htm
and some pictures I took on a recent run....
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=286605&a=7710345
Larry
12452 From: Brent Lizakowski <brent_lizakowski@h...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 11:26am
Subject: Fairly Good Dealer Service
OK, so lately it seems as though a lot of you have had some bad dealer
service reports. I'm going to give you a little good news. I took my '99 TJ
in today for a 30K mile service. The only reason I did it is because I have
an unfamiliar noise coming from under the hood and I plan on installing a
lift and other things in a few months. I decided that since a lot of dealers
frown upon lifts and such, I'd have them check anything out now before they
give me hassles on any warranty work with my lift.
Anyway, I procrastinated as usual and didn't make an appointment until
yesterday afternoon. They said I could bring in my Jeep in the morning and
they'd do their best to get everything done by the end of the day. Since the
dealer (Jim Click - Tucson) is right by the mall, I just decided to hang out
and do some shopping all day.
Sure enough, they got the service done. Although, it wasn't completed until
4:45. But, again, that's what I get for waiting until the last minute to
make the appointment. They even had me do the road test with them which I
appreciated. They determined that the reason for my "mystery noise" was a
cracked exhaust manifold (so, something good did come out of taking it to
the dealer - even though I had to pay an arm and a leg for the service). I
have an appointment to take it back in two weeks to get the work done under
warranty when I have a day off of work.
Now, I would have said that they did an excellent job. But, there were a few
minor things that could have been done better. 1)I asked them to call me on
my cell phone. But, they called my work number instead to leave me a
message. However, I appreciated that they did call at 1:30 to let me know
they were halfway done with the service and that the service advisor I was
dealing with was going on lunch break at 2:00. Not a biggie though as I
often call work to get my messages. 2) They didn't balance my tires as I
asked them too. Tomorrow, when I drive up to Phoenix to pick up my new
winch, it's going to be a shaky trip. But, they didn't charge me for the
balancing they didn't do. Not a biggie. I may be able to take it in
somewhere else before I leave tomorrow. 3) I had them fix the connector that
has been causing my tach and speedo to go to zero and a "no bus" message
displays in the odometer. For some reason, there's no power to my stereo.
Part of the problem may be because I have an aftermarket stereo and a sound
deck. Perhaps they weren't familiar with the way the connectors were to be
re-connected?? I noticed about 3 miles away from the dealership (I was
listening for noises, etc.). I didn't feel like driving back. I'm taking my
dash off Sunday to install my new ARB air compressor electical lines. Not a
biggie.
So, all in all, I'm fairly impressed with the service. The service advisor
(Brian, I've also dealt with Shawn there before) was very helpful (Shawn is
as well). FWIW, I asked him what their policy was on warranty work on Jeeps
with lifts and other mods. He says they're not like most other dealerships
where they see a lift and say "Nope, can't fix it under warranty". He says
they take things on a case by case basis. He told me how last week, someone
came in with a lifted Jeep. Apparently, he installed a lift and didn't
install longer shocks (put his stock shocks back in instead). His shock
mounts got ripped apart and he thought it'd be covered under warranty. They
told him they couldn't fix it though.
So, after I install my lift, I plan on taking it back to Jim Click. I'm in
no way affiliated with them. Just thought I'd pass on the info.
Brent Lizakowski
__________________________________________________ _______________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
12453 From: LindaL <minihummer@w...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 7:02pm
Subject: 4x4 wannabes -- this is cute.
Check this out. Especially the Poser sightings.
http://poseur.4x4.org/
12454 From: LindaL <minihummer@w...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 7:07pm
Subject: Re: Fairly Good Dealer Service
> appreciated. They determined that the reason for my "mystery noise" was a
> cracked exhaust manifold (so, something good did come out of taking it to
> the dealer - even though I had to pay an arm and a leg for the service). I
> have an appointment to take it back in two weeks to get the work done under
> warranty when I have a day off of work.
Lucky you! I spent $800 getting a new factory exhaust manifold installed at the
dealer. Would have done it myself, but didn't think I could!
Linda
12455 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 7:08pm
Subject: Pros and Cons of fixed vs clutch fans?
What are the pros and cons of running a fixed engine driven fan vs the stock
fan/clutch arrangement? I'm not as concerned about possible horsepower loss
(if there is any) of the fixed fan. I'm looking for cooling efficiency.
If fixed fan is the way to go, anyone have any recommendations for a good
fan?
ChrisK
97 TJ
12456 From: LindaL <minihummer@w...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 9:02pm
Subject: LU - [Fwd: AZ RAC]
FYI. Oct 4, 2000 is a Wednesday. I don't know who is now in Gary
Bauer's position.
Linda
From: "The Anti-GAG" cjjeepercreeper@h...
To: landuse@m...
Subject: AZ RAC
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 14:03:23 GMT
Sender: owner-landuse@m...
[Federal Register: September 7, 2000 (Volume 65, Number 174)]
[Notices]
[Page 54297]
>From the Federal Register Online via GPO Access [wais.access.gpo.gov]
[DOCID:fr07se00-123]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
Bureau of Land Management
[AZ-910-0777-26-241A]
State of Arizona Resource Advisory Council Meeting
AGENCY: Bureau of Land Management, Interior.
ACTION: Arizona Resource Advisory Council Meeting notice.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
SUMMARY: This notice announces a meeting of the Arizona Resource
Advisory Council (RAC). The meeting will be held on October 4, in
Phoenix, Arizona. The RAC meeting will begin at 9 a.m. and will
conclude at approximately 4 p.m. The agenda items to be covered include
the review of the March 31, May 11, and August 4, 2000, meeting
minutes; BLM State Director's Update on legislation, regulations and
statewide planning efforts; New RAC Member Introductions; Wilderness
Area Access Regulations; Update on Undocumented Immigrants and the
Impacts to the San Pedro Riparian National Conservation Area; RAC
Discussion of Rangeland Resource Teams' Progress; Update Proposed Field
Office Rangeland Resource Teams; Reports from BLM Field Office
Managers; Reports by the Standards and Guidelines, Recreation and
Public Relations, Wild Horse and Burro Working Groups; Reports from RAC
members; and Discussion of future meetings. A public comment period
will be provided at 11:30 a.m. on October 3, 2000, for any interested
publics who wish to address the Council.
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Deborah Stevens, Bureau of Land
Management, Arizona State Office, 222 North Central Avenue, Phoenix,
Arizona 85004-2203, (602) 417-9215.
Gary D. Bauer,
Acting Arizona State Director.
[FR Doc. 00-22904 Filed 9-6-00; 8:45 am]
BILLING CODE 4310-32-M
Brad Ullrich
Land Use Editor, Off-Road.com
http://www.off-road.com/land
"If we and what we believe in is ignored, the truth will die. Activism and
only activism will put us "in charge". Anything else is slavery. Regardless
of what Bill Clinton & AlGore say, this is not the planet of the apes."
--Ted Nugent--
__________________________________________________ _______________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
================================================== =========
This mailing list is proudly sponsored by Off-Road.com, Inc.
The Off Road Network, at "http://www.off-road.com"
12457 From: Len Sullivan <kermit@e...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 9:07pm
Subject: Jeep wreck
I hope everybody made it home ok tonight............we just saw a newer TJ
run a red light and T-bone an S-10. Both vehicles were totalled and the
passenger of the S-10 was injured.
Dark colored TJ, spice top, no lift, stock tires.........now very bent.
Len
12458 From: <dunk95@h...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 9:12pm
Subject: Poor dealer service
Well, here is my last experence at my local dealer ship. I take
my wifes 98 XJ to Cropper in Casa Grande on Monday afternoon. The
problem was at slow speed ( 1-5 mph ) A thumping noise in the front
axle and after replacing the third fuel sending unit there is a thump
when started. I called on tuesday afternoon and now answers yet.
Wednesday The starting thump was a loose tail pipe, And the slow
speed thump was a loose sway bar link ( it has a 3" lift ) I told
them that I had the noise even without the links on. On Friday, When
I called, I was told " We told you where the noise is coming from,
BUT, YOU don't agree, so when we get someone free We will take
another look at it maybe first of the week." I told them to forget
it and I would pick it up that day. When I questioned why my Jeep
spent five days for nothing in the shop I was then told " If you do
not agree with the way we handled your service, maybe you should find
somewhere to take it." This was from the service manager. And I did.
This was not the only time my Jeeps spent over night stays at this
dealership, But it will be the LAST. When I started it up to leave
there was a thump. Even after they fixed it.
12459 From: Jay Eller <jay@t...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 9:01pm
Subject: Re: Pros and Cons of fixed vs clutch fans?
Boy....this one has been covered a lot, but is always good for some more go
rounds. The general consensus seems to be a stock 7 blade fan and thermal
clutch type of fan is far superior to a fixed flex style of fan. So.....I guess
that about sums it up. Electrics are good at low speeds, but are less reliable,
draw lots of current, and work poorly at higher vehicle speeds (assuming they
are used in conjunction with a custom fan shroud. Fixed with fan clutch appears
to be the collectives cooling of choice.
--
----------------------------
Jay Eller
President
Toybox Off-Road
http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
Chris Krieg wrote:
> What are the pros and cons of running a fixed engine driven fan vs the stock
> fan/clutch arrangement? I'm not as concerned about possible horsepower loss
> (if there is any) of the fixed fan. I'm looking for cooling efficiency.
> If fixed fan is the way to go, anyone have any recommendations for a good
> fan?
>
> ChrisK
> 97 TJ
12460 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 9:55pm
Subject: so so dealer service
With the recent dealer service threads circulating, I guess I'll toss in my
$.02 since I just visited the local shop this week.
I dropped my TJ off for another round of warranty work at the old Biddulph
dealership...now it is Glendale Automotive or something like that.
On the previous visit, they diagnosed my noise in the front axle (DougB, do
you remember that noise that started on the way to the Milk Ranch?) to my
"after market gear assembly". This is there generic name for my TrueTrac
and 4.56 gears. They never would have known they were in there except for
the fact that I told them. I had asked them to explain how they determined
it to be the diff and/or gears when they never had the cover off the D30?
Gosh...no one could come up with an answer. I suggested it might have been
some kind of divine revelation.....or perhaps a big dose of BS was being
served. The service writer refused to comment on either one.
So....this Tuesday it went back because I wouldn't accept their gear
assembly diagnosis. Amazingly, it was determined to be the spindle nut on
the driver side....not properly torqued. (I had done some extensive testing
of the TrueTrac with a floor jack, jack stands, and one wheel on the ground
kind of thing). With this extra incentive, I guess they decided the diff
was just fine and they should look some place else for the problem.
I guess two trips to the dealership to fix a loose nut is pretty good, yes?
Hey, it is a 5 Star Dealership! Think how many trips it would have taken if
they were only a 2 or 3 star outfit! LOL!
NOTE: The only thing I can say is that they have never once raised an
eyebrow about the mods on my Jeep. Many of you know what my Jeep looks
like. They take it in and just work on it (the best they can). Of course,
they also sell 33" tired TJs off of the front lot, so they probably can't
get too crazy about it (lucky for us Jeepers!).
Stu
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
12461 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 10:33pm
Subject: Re: Pros and Cons of fixed vs clutch fans?
Thanks Jay. Sorry if this has subject was done before. I'm just getting
frustrated by my stupid cooling system.
Chris
> From: Jay Eller <jay@t...>
> Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 21:01:32 -0700
> Cc: Virtual Jeep Club <az_vjc@egroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Pros and Cons of fixed vs clutch fans?
>
> Boy....this one has been covered a lot, but is always good for some more go
> rounds. The general consensus seems to be a stock 7 blade fan and thermal
> clutch type of fan is far superior to a fixed flex style of fan. So.....I
> guess
> that about sums it up. Electrics are good at low speeds, but are less
> reliable,
> draw lots of current, and work poorly at higher vehicle speeds (assuming they
> are used in conjunction with a custom fan shroud. Fixed with fan clutch
> appears
> to be the collectives cooling of choice.
> --
> ----------------------------
> Jay Eller
> President
> Toybox Off-Road
> http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
>
> Chris Krieg wrote:
>
>> What are the pros and cons of running a fixed engine driven fan vs the stock
>> fan/clutch arrangement? I'm not as concerned about possible horsepower loss
>> (if there is any) of the fixed fan. I'm looking for cooling efficiency.
>> If fixed fan is the way to go, anyone have any recommendations for a good
>> fan?
>>
>> ChrisK
>> 97 TJ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
12462 From: William Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 11:45pm
Subject: Re: 4x4 wannabes -- this is cute.
Hilarious!! What a riot! My lil' Suv is gaining weight soon. I'm planning a
custom frame, stretching the Yldkat to 93" wheelbase, Ford 460, C-6, NP 205,
D60 front and rear. Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore! The Scout
80 project is getting scrapped to do this. Hey, sometimes you have to spin
your wheels to get up the hill..... Still plan on ARB's, but the gear ratio
will drop to 5.13:1 ( max allowable by the D60 rev. rotation). If all goes
well, I wont miss any Jeeping except when the body is transferred from one
chassis to the other, Which I predict will happen around summer next
year..... Unless I come into a large sum of money between now and then. I
probably wont sell anything off until after it is completely built.
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
----- Original Message -----
From: "LindaL" <minihummer@w...>
To: <az_vjc@egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 7:02 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] 4x4 wannabes -- this is cute.
> Check this out. Especially the Poser sightings.
>
> http://poseur.4x4.org/
>
>
>
>
>
>
12438 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Thu Sep 7, 2000 9:38pm
Subject: Re: steering box removal
Rent a Gorilla....or use an impact gun to get the nut off. For the arm
itself, you'll need a good size pitman arm puller. It'll come off w/ a loud
BANG. Sometimes, getting the puller on and under pressure, then smacking the
arm (at the shaft) will help pop it off.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "LindaL" <minihummer@w...>
To: <az_vjc@egroups.com>; "xj_az" <arizonaXJ@egroups.com>; "zj-list"
<zj-list@m...>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 9:13 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] steering box removal
> Anyone have any handy hints for breaking free a pitman arm nut that's
> torqued on at 185 ft-lbs?
> Linda
>
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
12439 From: Hal Loy <tucsonhal@e...>
Date: Thu Sep 7, 2000 9:39pm
Subject: Re: steering box removal
Hi Linda,
I borrow a pitman arm puller from AutoZone, they have a tool loaner
program, and to pull the nut itself I use a 24" pipe wrench, (the jaws
tighten under torque), with a high-lift handle for extra leverage. So far
this method has worked every time for me.
Hal Loy
Tucson Rough Riders
AZ Virtual Jeep Club
ASA4WDC
tucsonhal@e...
12440 From: Len Sullivan <kermit@e...>
Date: Thu Sep 7, 2000 9:50pm
Subject: re: steering box removal
Hi Linda
several ideas for you:
1 - liquid wrench is your friend
if you're planning on removing the arm this weekend, start soaking the
threads/nut in liquid wrench, wd40, or pb blaster NOW
2 - impact tools
most equipment rental stores will rent you an electric impact wrench for
about $20 a day -- the last time i used one was to remove the gland nut on
a VW flywheel......VW doesn't use a ring of small nuts to hold their
flywheels on........they use one big momma torqued to 205 ft lbs. I fought
with it for about an hour, then gave up and rented an impact. With the
impact it took less than 15 seconds...............
3 - Archimedes
this one takes an extra pair of hands -- have a friend hold a
ratchet/socket on the nut while you slip the handle of your hi-lift jack
over the handle of the ratchet and use it as a cheater bar..........
I recommend 1&2........#3 tends to break things. After my experience with
the VW gland nut I bought a Craftsman compressor and an air powered impact.
It more than paid for itself in the time it saved me when I did my lift.
You're welcome to come over here and use my impact gun, but you would need
to do the entire replacent procedure here 'cuz once that nut comes off the
truck has to stay wherever it is until your finished and it's torqued back
down.
You only think you're having fun now........just wait 'till you try to get
the pitman arm off of the shaft :-)
hope this helps
Len
-----Original Message-----
From: LindaL <minihummer@w...>
To: az_vjc@egroups.com <az_vjc@egroups.com>; xj_az <arizonaXJ@egroups.com>;
zj-list <zj-list@m...>
Date: Thursday, September 07, 2000 9:05 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] steering box removal
>Anyone have any handy hints for breaking free a pitman arm nut that's
>torqued on at 185 ft-lbs?
>Linda
12441 From: Bill White <jeepthg@a...>
Date: Thu Sep 7, 2000 9:52pm
Subject: friday or saturday night runs?
I am planning on doing a night run this weekend. Trail will be at
least a 4. Not sure where or what night, will depend on who wants to
attend. Drop an email if interested and what trail....night.
12442 From: ebnhils:First ebnhils:Last <ebnhils@e...>
Date: Thu Sep 7, 2000 9:55pm
Subject: Re: TR on Sat, Sept. 30th ??
I have never done Rocker Panel Pass but would be interested in going along
if possible. Let me know the details.
Eben
----- Original Message -----
From: Devon Whitney <a74cj6@a...>
To: <az_vjc@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 7:52 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] TR on Sat, Sept. 30th ??
> I've got family visiting for the weekend of September 30th. Whenever
> they visit, my wife makes me take them out Jeeping. And because
> there are so many of them this time I've got to go twice in one
> weekend. Oh the sacrifice. Anyway, I've been looking for a trail
> kind of close by (did B.A. with them last year & don't want to go
> that far this time) and came up with a couple ideas. Rocker Panel
> Pass, Bulldog Canyon, Box Canyon/Coke Ovens, or something else I just
> don't know about. (although ending at a river sounds pretty enticing
> right now)
>
> I know someone had the combo for Bulldog so it's a possibility (if
> they can make it) and I've also done Box Canyon but I'd rather do
> Rocker Panel because I've never been there before. So, the question
> is, would someone like to be lead for Rocker Panel Pass on 9-30? Or,
> my second question, would anyone like to be lead on any other semi-
> close trail on the 30th? The second day I'm going out is Monday,
> October 2nd and was just planning on repeating the same run as the
> 30th but anyone else is welcome to join on that day too.
>
> Thought I'd get the ball rolling so if anyone can lead one of these
> trails let me know. Once we get a leader we can post something for
> the rest of the group.
>
> Regards,
>
> Devon
> 1974 CJ-6
> a74cj6@a...
> www.5pillars.com/ucan2
> www.homestead.com/a74cj6
>
>
>
>
>
>
12443 From: ebnhils:First ebnhils:Last <ebnhils@e...>
Date: Thu Sep 7, 2000 10:08pm
Subject: Upper Woodpecker 9/10 Sunday
A group from the XJ List and I are planning on finishing Upper Woodpecker, the trail we started last Sunday before my Crank Sensor died (of all things!!). We will more than likely be meeting at the Gold Canyon Ranch Texaco between 7:30 and 8:00 am on Sunday morning. If you are interested, please e-mail me back and let me know. We will be using CB channel 4.
Eben
12444 From: Patrick Stevens <dreamwev@m...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 7:18am
Subject: Jamboree Trails
Well, It looks like I'm going to tail end Predator for the Jamboree. They
still need a trip leader. The previous person dropped out. Anyone around
here done the trail before and want to lead? I would, but I haven't even
done this trail yet.
Patrick
12445 From: Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 8:54am
Subject: RE: steering box removal
Yep,a big whacker and grunt from a large human male like Bill M. ;-)
-----Original Message-----
From: LindaL [mailto:minihummer@w...]
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 9:13 PM
To: az_vjc@egroups.com; xj_az; zj-list
Subject: [az_vjc] steering box removal
Anyone have any handy hints for breaking free a pitman arm nut that's
torqued on at 185 ft-lbs?
Linda
12446 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 9:06am
Subject: Re: Cinder Hills Cleanup 9/16/00
Here's a link to a map.
Being my typical self, never one to get something new when I've gotta a
perfectly good old one lying around, I've used a really old map. It has
already been re-used several times over the last three years. The new
info is in red.
http://p4w.uuuuuudotcom.com/cinders_gif.gif
Daver wrote:
>
> Daver wrote:
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > From: Terry Heslin <theslin@p...>
> > <snip>
> > The Cinder Hills Rough Riders invite everyone to participate in the 3rd
> > annual Cinder Hills Cleanup.
> > Saturday, September 16, at 10 a.m.
> > Make it a day trip or camp out.
> > Meet at the Playhill on the 777 Road.
>
> Incidently, this is the hill that us Jeepers know as CJ Hill.
>
> I have a map I can post a link to if someone needs further direction.
>
> > For more info please call Larry or Kathy at (520) 526-8853 before 6 p.m.
> > or CinderhillsRR@a....
> > <snip>
12447 From: Blake Van de Loo <blake@m...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 1:39pm
Subject:
FREE 1964 Jeep pick up
No engine, trans or transfer case.
Small dent in one door, otherwise straight
Has axels and wheels, tire's are flat.
Blake
12448 From: Blake Van de Loo <blake@m...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 1:48pm
Subject: 1964 jeep P/U
It has been claimed, 1.6 minutes not bad....
-----Original Message-----
From: Blake Van de Loo
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 1:40 PM
To: Az_Vjc (E-mail)
Subject: [az_vjc]
FREE 1964 Jeep pick up
No engine, trans or transfer case.
Small dent in one door, otherwise straight
Has axels and wheels, tire's are flat.
Blake
12449 From: <fourwhlcrzy@a...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 11:35am
Subject: Re: steering box removal
pipe wrench with hi-lift handle always worked for me. If you can, drive to
auto zone so you can check is thier pitman arm puller fits. Sometimes they
dont, especially if you have aftermarket arm. sucks to get home and then
realize.easy with torch if you are going to use steering box again(rebuild),
heats no good for tempered shaft. Good luck
Daren 52 M38
12450 From: <Roxie@t...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 3:47pm
Subject: Stuff for the Jeep Gals...
In case you girls on this list don't know about it, there is a "Jeep Girl Club" - and they do have a great e-list. So, if you want to check it out:
www.jeepgirlclub.com
-Stacy-Michelle
www.thejeepgoddess.com
12451 From: Larry <lmaggio@p...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 4:19pm
Subject: Night run... Saturday the 9th.
We have a handful of VJC'ers heading out to the P4W ranch Saturday night.
We have room for 2 or 3 more Jeeps if someone would like to join us. Email
me and I'll pass out the specifics at that point.
For those not familiar with the area it is located approx. 10 minutes west
of Lake Pleasant. Stu has some writeups on this area...
http://home.off-road.com/~stu/others/other18-1.htm
http://home.off-road.com/~stu/others/other17.htm
and some pictures I took on a recent run....
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=286605&a=7710345
Larry
12452 From: Brent Lizakowski <brent_lizakowski@h...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 11:26am
Subject: Fairly Good Dealer Service
OK, so lately it seems as though a lot of you have had some bad dealer
service reports. I'm going to give you a little good news. I took my '99 TJ
in today for a 30K mile service. The only reason I did it is because I have
an unfamiliar noise coming from under the hood and I plan on installing a
lift and other things in a few months. I decided that since a lot of dealers
frown upon lifts and such, I'd have them check anything out now before they
give me hassles on any warranty work with my lift.
Anyway, I procrastinated as usual and didn't make an appointment until
yesterday afternoon. They said I could bring in my Jeep in the morning and
they'd do their best to get everything done by the end of the day. Since the
dealer (Jim Click - Tucson) is right by the mall, I just decided to hang out
and do some shopping all day.
Sure enough, they got the service done. Although, it wasn't completed until
4:45. But, again, that's what I get for waiting until the last minute to
make the appointment. They even had me do the road test with them which I
appreciated. They determined that the reason for my "mystery noise" was a
cracked exhaust manifold (so, something good did come out of taking it to
the dealer - even though I had to pay an arm and a leg for the service). I
have an appointment to take it back in two weeks to get the work done under
warranty when I have a day off of work.
Now, I would have said that they did an excellent job. But, there were a few
minor things that could have been done better. 1)I asked them to call me on
my cell phone. But, they called my work number instead to leave me a
message. However, I appreciated that they did call at 1:30 to let me know
they were halfway done with the service and that the service advisor I was
dealing with was going on lunch break at 2:00. Not a biggie though as I
often call work to get my messages. 2) They didn't balance my tires as I
asked them too. Tomorrow, when I drive up to Phoenix to pick up my new
winch, it's going to be a shaky trip. But, they didn't charge me for the
balancing they didn't do. Not a biggie. I may be able to take it in
somewhere else before I leave tomorrow. 3) I had them fix the connector that
has been causing my tach and speedo to go to zero and a "no bus" message
displays in the odometer. For some reason, there's no power to my stereo.
Part of the problem may be because I have an aftermarket stereo and a sound
deck. Perhaps they weren't familiar with the way the connectors were to be
re-connected?? I noticed about 3 miles away from the dealership (I was
listening for noises, etc.). I didn't feel like driving back. I'm taking my
dash off Sunday to install my new ARB air compressor electical lines. Not a
biggie.
So, all in all, I'm fairly impressed with the service. The service advisor
(Brian, I've also dealt with Shawn there before) was very helpful (Shawn is
as well). FWIW, I asked him what their policy was on warranty work on Jeeps
with lifts and other mods. He says they're not like most other dealerships
where they see a lift and say "Nope, can't fix it under warranty". He says
they take things on a case by case basis. He told me how last week, someone
came in with a lifted Jeep. Apparently, he installed a lift and didn't
install longer shocks (put his stock shocks back in instead). His shock
mounts got ripped apart and he thought it'd be covered under warranty. They
told him they couldn't fix it though.
So, after I install my lift, I plan on taking it back to Jim Click. I'm in
no way affiliated with them. Just thought I'd pass on the info.
Brent Lizakowski
__________________________________________________ _______________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
12453 From: LindaL <minihummer@w...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 7:02pm
Subject: 4x4 wannabes -- this is cute.
Check this out. Especially the Poser sightings.
http://poseur.4x4.org/
12454 From: LindaL <minihummer@w...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 7:07pm
Subject: Re: Fairly Good Dealer Service
> appreciated. They determined that the reason for my "mystery noise" was a
> cracked exhaust manifold (so, something good did come out of taking it to
> the dealer - even though I had to pay an arm and a leg for the service). I
> have an appointment to take it back in two weeks to get the work done under
> warranty when I have a day off of work.
Lucky you! I spent $800 getting a new factory exhaust manifold installed at the
dealer. Would have done it myself, but didn't think I could!
Linda
12455 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 7:08pm
Subject: Pros and Cons of fixed vs clutch fans?
What are the pros and cons of running a fixed engine driven fan vs the stock
fan/clutch arrangement? I'm not as concerned about possible horsepower loss
(if there is any) of the fixed fan. I'm looking for cooling efficiency.
If fixed fan is the way to go, anyone have any recommendations for a good
fan?
ChrisK
97 TJ
12456 From: LindaL <minihummer@w...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 9:02pm
Subject: LU - [Fwd: AZ RAC]
FYI. Oct 4, 2000 is a Wednesday. I don't know who is now in Gary
Bauer's position.
Linda
From: "The Anti-GAG" cjjeepercreeper@h...
To: landuse@m...
Subject: AZ RAC
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 14:03:23 GMT
Sender: owner-landuse@m...
[Federal Register: September 7, 2000 (Volume 65, Number 174)]
[Notices]
[Page 54297]
>From the Federal Register Online via GPO Access [wais.access.gpo.gov]
[DOCID:fr07se00-123]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
Bureau of Land Management
[AZ-910-0777-26-241A]
State of Arizona Resource Advisory Council Meeting
AGENCY: Bureau of Land Management, Interior.
ACTION: Arizona Resource Advisory Council Meeting notice.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
SUMMARY: This notice announces a meeting of the Arizona Resource
Advisory Council (RAC). The meeting will be held on October 4, in
Phoenix, Arizona. The RAC meeting will begin at 9 a.m. and will
conclude at approximately 4 p.m. The agenda items to be covered include
the review of the March 31, May 11, and August 4, 2000, meeting
minutes; BLM State Director's Update on legislation, regulations and
statewide planning efforts; New RAC Member Introductions; Wilderness
Area Access Regulations; Update on Undocumented Immigrants and the
Impacts to the San Pedro Riparian National Conservation Area; RAC
Discussion of Rangeland Resource Teams' Progress; Update Proposed Field
Office Rangeland Resource Teams; Reports from BLM Field Office
Managers; Reports by the Standards and Guidelines, Recreation and
Public Relations, Wild Horse and Burro Working Groups; Reports from RAC
members; and Discussion of future meetings. A public comment period
will be provided at 11:30 a.m. on October 3, 2000, for any interested
publics who wish to address the Council.
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Deborah Stevens, Bureau of Land
Management, Arizona State Office, 222 North Central Avenue, Phoenix,
Arizona 85004-2203, (602) 417-9215.
Gary D. Bauer,
Acting Arizona State Director.
[FR Doc. 00-22904 Filed 9-6-00; 8:45 am]
BILLING CODE 4310-32-M
Brad Ullrich
Land Use Editor, Off-Road.com
http://www.off-road.com/land
"If we and what we believe in is ignored, the truth will die. Activism and
only activism will put us "in charge". Anything else is slavery. Regardless
of what Bill Clinton & AlGore say, this is not the planet of the apes."
--Ted Nugent--
__________________________________________________ _______________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
================================================== =========
This mailing list is proudly sponsored by Off-Road.com, Inc.
The Off Road Network, at "http://www.off-road.com"
12457 From: Len Sullivan <kermit@e...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 9:07pm
Subject: Jeep wreck
I hope everybody made it home ok tonight............we just saw a newer TJ
run a red light and T-bone an S-10. Both vehicles were totalled and the
passenger of the S-10 was injured.
Dark colored TJ, spice top, no lift, stock tires.........now very bent.
Len
12458 From: <dunk95@h...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 9:12pm
Subject: Poor dealer service
Well, here is my last experence at my local dealer ship. I take
my wifes 98 XJ to Cropper in Casa Grande on Monday afternoon. The
problem was at slow speed ( 1-5 mph ) A thumping noise in the front
axle and after replacing the third fuel sending unit there is a thump
when started. I called on tuesday afternoon and now answers yet.
Wednesday The starting thump was a loose tail pipe, And the slow
speed thump was a loose sway bar link ( it has a 3" lift ) I told
them that I had the noise even without the links on. On Friday, When
I called, I was told " We told you where the noise is coming from,
BUT, YOU don't agree, so when we get someone free We will take
another look at it maybe first of the week." I told them to forget
it and I would pick it up that day. When I questioned why my Jeep
spent five days for nothing in the shop I was then told " If you do
not agree with the way we handled your service, maybe you should find
somewhere to take it." This was from the service manager. And I did.
This was not the only time my Jeeps spent over night stays at this
dealership, But it will be the LAST. When I started it up to leave
there was a thump. Even after they fixed it.
12459 From: Jay Eller <jay@t...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 9:01pm
Subject: Re: Pros and Cons of fixed vs clutch fans?
Boy....this one has been covered a lot, but is always good for some more go
rounds. The general consensus seems to be a stock 7 blade fan and thermal
clutch type of fan is far superior to a fixed flex style of fan. So.....I guess
that about sums it up. Electrics are good at low speeds, but are less reliable,
draw lots of current, and work poorly at higher vehicle speeds (assuming they
are used in conjunction with a custom fan shroud. Fixed with fan clutch appears
to be the collectives cooling of choice.
--
----------------------------
Jay Eller
President
Toybox Off-Road
http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
Chris Krieg wrote:
> What are the pros and cons of running a fixed engine driven fan vs the stock
> fan/clutch arrangement? I'm not as concerned about possible horsepower loss
> (if there is any) of the fixed fan. I'm looking for cooling efficiency.
> If fixed fan is the way to go, anyone have any recommendations for a good
> fan?
>
> ChrisK
> 97 TJ
12460 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 9:55pm
Subject: so so dealer service
With the recent dealer service threads circulating, I guess I'll toss in my
$.02 since I just visited the local shop this week.
I dropped my TJ off for another round of warranty work at the old Biddulph
dealership...now it is Glendale Automotive or something like that.
On the previous visit, they diagnosed my noise in the front axle (DougB, do
you remember that noise that started on the way to the Milk Ranch?) to my
"after market gear assembly". This is there generic name for my TrueTrac
and 4.56 gears. They never would have known they were in there except for
the fact that I told them. I had asked them to explain how they determined
it to be the diff and/or gears when they never had the cover off the D30?
Gosh...no one could come up with an answer. I suggested it might have been
some kind of divine revelation.....or perhaps a big dose of BS was being
served. The service writer refused to comment on either one.
So....this Tuesday it went back because I wouldn't accept their gear
assembly diagnosis. Amazingly, it was determined to be the spindle nut on
the driver side....not properly torqued. (I had done some extensive testing
of the TrueTrac with a floor jack, jack stands, and one wheel on the ground
kind of thing). With this extra incentive, I guess they decided the diff
was just fine and they should look some place else for the problem.
I guess two trips to the dealership to fix a loose nut is pretty good, yes?
Hey, it is a 5 Star Dealership! Think how many trips it would have taken if
they were only a 2 or 3 star outfit! LOL!
NOTE: The only thing I can say is that they have never once raised an
eyebrow about the mods on my Jeep. Many of you know what my Jeep looks
like. They take it in and just work on it (the best they can). Of course,
they also sell 33" tired TJs off of the front lot, so they probably can't
get too crazy about it (lucky for us Jeepers!).
Stu
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
12461 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 10:33pm
Subject: Re: Pros and Cons of fixed vs clutch fans?
Thanks Jay. Sorry if this has subject was done before. I'm just getting
frustrated by my stupid cooling system.
Chris
> From: Jay Eller <jay@t...>
> Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 21:01:32 -0700
> Cc: Virtual Jeep Club <az_vjc@egroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Pros and Cons of fixed vs clutch fans?
>
> Boy....this one has been covered a lot, but is always good for some more go
> rounds. The general consensus seems to be a stock 7 blade fan and thermal
> clutch type of fan is far superior to a fixed flex style of fan. So.....I
> guess
> that about sums it up. Electrics are good at low speeds, but are less
> reliable,
> draw lots of current, and work poorly at higher vehicle speeds (assuming they
> are used in conjunction with a custom fan shroud. Fixed with fan clutch
> appears
> to be the collectives cooling of choice.
> --
> ----------------------------
> Jay Eller
> President
> Toybox Off-Road
> http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
>
> Chris Krieg wrote:
>
>> What are the pros and cons of running a fixed engine driven fan vs the stock
>> fan/clutch arrangement? I'm not as concerned about possible horsepower loss
>> (if there is any) of the fixed fan. I'm looking for cooling efficiency.
>> If fixed fan is the way to go, anyone have any recommendations for a good
>> fan?
>>
>> ChrisK
>> 97 TJ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
12462 From: William Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Fri Sep 8, 2000 11:45pm
Subject: Re: 4x4 wannabes -- this is cute.
Hilarious!! What a riot! My lil' Suv is gaining weight soon. I'm planning a
custom frame, stretching the Yldkat to 93" wheelbase, Ford 460, C-6, NP 205,
D60 front and rear. Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore! The Scout
80 project is getting scrapped to do this. Hey, sometimes you have to spin
your wheels to get up the hill..... Still plan on ARB's, but the gear ratio
will drop to 5.13:1 ( max allowable by the D60 rev. rotation). If all goes
well, I wont miss any Jeeping except when the body is transferred from one
chassis to the other, Which I predict will happen around summer next
year..... Unless I come into a large sum of money between now and then. I
probably wont sell anything off until after it is completely built.
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
----- Original Message -----
From: "LindaL" <minihummer@w...>
To: <az_vjc@egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 7:02 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] 4x4 wannabes -- this is cute.
> Check this out. Especially the Poser sightings.
>
> http://poseur.4x4.org/
>
>
>
>
>
>