Attention Turtle

[jeepin_in_az]

1st off, we do not take threats from anyone.


Originally Posted by Turtle
Dave,

Well, I will say that I am not very impressed with your business' customer service, nor your product. You and Mike have not made ANY attempt to contact me after I was unable to make the 1st appt. To me that is not determination to please an upset customer. I have not contacted you since then because I wanted to give you time to see what you, as a business person, would do for the situation. So far you have done nothing.

2nd, WHY should we follow you around to make sure you make your appointments. You cancelled on us the day before your appointment, when you had made plans for a week to do a run in Tucson. We are not your parents. We have made several attempts to get you scheduled in, and you said they would not work, and you cancelled an appointment that we set up on a weekend for you.

The first time the plastic cracked I told you about it immediately. You kept giving me excuses and say it was my fault because of the body. Then when it cracked a second time you finally decided to set up an appt. to see me about it. However, you also made me wait 2.5 weeks till you could FIT me into your schedule.

It took you 2-3 weeks to get us pictures, and Dave even asked when he could get you in, and you procrastinated. Again, we are not your parents and should not have to pester you to make an appointment, and keep it.

You asked us to cover the attempt you make to cut your fenders. We did.

Yes, we made you wait 2.5 weeks just to piss you off :rolleyes: It is called us being busy...

Overall, I think the product has proved to be a poor design. As well as a few others I have heard of so far. I think Simply Offroad needs a better personnel if they want to keep their customers happy and coming back for more. You have known that I was unhappy from day one. Now I think it is time we resolve something with this issue. I, personally, would like to recieve a full refund of my money for this product. I believe that is fair come this point.

The product is not the best design, we admidt that. We also were sold the wrong product that we requested. We have been working with one other customer as to when we can get the correct plastic installed on thier Jeep. Yes, it has taken a few weeks, but the suppliers out here won't order 1-2 sheets at a time. They have to order with thier big order, so that means we have to wait.

As far as personnel, everyone is stuck with Dave and I.

As far as resolution, Dave has already responed to you. If it was up to me, send me your address and a cashiers check for $100 will be in the mail. After all, you were the guinea pig, and it cost us money to do it.

If I don't hear a response from you by Tuesday morning I will be taking my complaint public. I don't wish to do that but if that is what I have to do to get your attention then I will. Please respond.

Thank you,
Justin Olson

How is that for going public? Don't threaten us, it will not be tolerated.



As far as us contacting customers that have problems, how are we supposed to know that they are unsatisfied with out them telling us? We have a customer out there that has our plastic covering from his front clip, over his doors, and rear quarters, and has not had one compliant (that we know of).

Jamie is not happy with hers. We are going to replace hers as soon as we get the correct plastic and she is aware of it. I think we have been in contact with her at least once a week since she notified us. There might have been one week that we didn't contact her, but there was no new update on when the plastic was going to be in.



Dave,

Thankyou for the quick response. Surely I would like my $100 back. However... if the next set are signicantly stronger then I would much rather wait and give them hell for ya! I would really prefer steel at this point, but if you are still going plastic again I will try them one last time.

Thankyou for getting this taken care of. Just let me know when ya get the situation figured out!

Thanks a ton,
Turtle!

I say send you back the $100 so you can go get steel ones.

[Turtle]

1st off, There was no direct "threat" made in the first quote you posted.

2nd , You are right, I cancelled on short notice. I will gladly accept blame for that one. However, I would gladly call you out on making "several attempts" to get me scheduled in. As far as I can recall from the beginning of this ordeal there was 3 attempts made... the first one I could not make and that was stated as soon as we tried to make plans (this was about getting the product installed). The second was when we did get the plastic installed. The 3rd was the time I was not able to make it to get the product fixed.

The only reason it took you 2-3 weeks for you to get the pictures is because it took you that long to ASK for them!! When I first told about the issue, I was told that you would see what you could do and you would get back to me. It was not until I got the SECOND crack that you finally asked for pictures. Once you did I had pictures to you 3 days later!

I NEVER asked you to "cover" my attempt at cutting my fenders. I simply asked if you could follow that line. Honestly... my metal cutting skills on the fender, although rather shabby, were still better then any of the cuts I have seen made to anyone elses plastic guards. Look at Erics for example... the cutouts around his wheel wells look like a 2 year old got ahold of the saw! At one spot they are on the line, then 2 inches later the cuts are practically 1/4" behind the body line.

Now tell me this, you stated that you were sold the wrong material. Hmmm.... if that is the case then why did you not make your attempt at recalling all of those products?? Was that just your attempt at being CHEAP? You would rather wait till everyones plastic cracks then replace it rather then do the right thing first???

By the way, that is great for takin' it public... I appreciate ya doin' what ya can!

"Yes, we made you wait 2.5 weeks just to piss you off " I don't know where this statement comes from. Whether it is sarcasm or just stupidity. This statement right here goes to show that you are not a professional. Nor will I ever send any business your way.

Finally, I don't even know where you come off with a few of the statements. I have NEVER even dealt with you through this time. This is the first time that I have ever had a response from you.

Dave, I will say thankyou! You have been upfront about everything and been polite through this whole ordeal.

Mike, well... ah well I dunno...

Your wonderful friend, :D
Turtle!

[jeep4offrd]

Sounds like a case of miscommunication.
Send him his $100.00 and dont waste your time with this. We all know you and Dave always go out of your way for your customers. Clearly Justins in a bigger hurry than you guys can deliver. Or just worried he's going to get screwed over. Not worth the headache for any of you guys.
We all know Simply Offroad Rocks. Absolute no brainer!!!!!
Bruce

[Turtle]

I apologize if it looks as if I am in a big hurry! I am in no big hurry whatsoever. Heck... it's been how many months now and I've just kept my cool about it. I'll just keep crackin' junk for now.

About the money... Mike, if you would like to send me the money back then that is fine by me. I have no problem taking my money elsewhere after this.

As far as "Simply Offroad rocks"... well... I will leave that one alone for now.

Turtle!

[jeepin_in_az]

Yes, we just found out we were sold the wrong material AFTER Jamie had a problem. The cost difference in what we were supposed to get is $3.00.

This is classic:


I was told that you would see what you could do and you would get back to me. It was not until I got the SECOND crack that you finally asked for pictures. Once you did I had pictures to you 3 days later!
Then:

Finally, I don't even know where you come off with a few of the statements. I have NEVER even dealt with you through this time. This is the first time that I have ever had a response from you.

Well, which is it? You sent the pictures to MY e-mail address...or you have NEVER dealt with me?

Yes, I am sarcastic. My sarcassim stems from YOUR statement. Read the first post I did, second quote.

And speaking of CHEAP...who is the one that *****ed about $100 BEFORE we even did them for you?


1st off, There was no direct "threat" made in the first quote you posted.

No, there wasn't. I am just being up front and letting you know we will not deal with threats. The threat is in the last quote.


E-mail me your address and a cashiers check will be in the mail on Wednesday.

[Turtle]

Mike,

You are correct... Now that I look back you were the one that I finally e-mailed pictures to. As far as I am able to remember that was the ONLY time that we dealt with one another though.

Sarcasm is a great characteristic! In a moment like this, while trying to defend your company and product, you show just how unprofessional you are. I know that if I was ever to be a business owner that sarcasm is certainly not how I would represent my business. I guess we are 2 different people however.

Speaking of CHEAP.... I don't know... tell me? Who was *****ing about the $100? Because it certainly wasn't me!! I said that I was all over it as soon as I could come up with the money, which happened to be 2 weeks from when the amount was stated. I never once complained about the price.

Sincerely,
Turtle!

[jeepin_in_az]

I received your e-mail, and the cashiers check will be in the mail on Wednesday.

And you are right, this could have been dealt with in a professional manner, until you threatened us.

End of dealing, mods can close this thread if they wish.

[DsrtJeeper]

Mike;
What advantage will uv protected plastic have as far as cracking? Is your source aware that you heat the plastic and bend it around the corners? From what i've seen; the rivets are placed too close to corners and edges when installed. This causes splitting at the rivet holes. For example; you wouldn't drive 16 penny nails through pine boards at 1/4" or less from the edges or corners. I've been very lucky with only one small crack. Both Jamie and I have the same thing in common though...cracks starting from a rivet hole very near the edge of the plastic guard. Direct blows to my guards produce no cracks. Also; I drilled 4 holes through the rear of my driver's side guard to attach the antenna bracket. I tightened the bolts in the bracket with good torque which was enough to pull the plastic in at that spot. Again; no cracks. :confused:

One thing I may suggest is drilling the rivet holes a bit larger than needed. As in vinyl siding installation; the screws are never tightened fully and the holes are slotted. Vinyl siding can expand and contract a full 1/2" in temperate climates. One thing I noticed about the various installations of your product is the varying depth of the countersunk holes. Drilling too deeply to set the rivet head flush will greatly weaken the attachment point as well. Try varying types of rivets and possibly going to a softer rivet. This will break off at less torque and possibly prevent cracking around the head. ;)

Just trying to help....

Eric

[Rick Latrani]

Are you threatening me?

http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~jlund/CORNHOLIO.jpg

[XJ Un-Limited]

Are you threatening me?

http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~jlund/CORNHOLIO.jpg

:D :D Woooo!!!! That's funny, I don't care who you are!!!!!! :D :D

[danno]

Delete!

This Is A Disagreement/misunderstanding Between Two Entities That Never Should Have Been Brought Public In The First Place.

If You Got A Problem Fellas, Take It Outside. Work It Out Amongst Yourselves...

[ChrisK]

What advantage will uv protected plastic have as far as cracking?
UV protection will keep the plastic from becoming brittle which will keep it from cracking. Also, as stated above, the holes that are drilled should be larger than the rivet/screw/bolt being put through them. This will allow for expansion/contraction without putting stress on the plastic which is what causes the crack. Also, there are special drill bits for drilling plastic. They have a different shoulder on them. The problem with regular drill bits is that they don't leave a clean enough hole and stress risers are formed inside the hole. This then gets stressed by securing the plastic to the vehicle and cracks are likely to form.
The canopy of the plane I am building is plexi. There are a LOT of handling issues with installing the canopy from edge smoothness to hole spacing to drilling. While it is not exactly the same plastic, the same rules apply.

[DsrtJeeper]

UV protection will keep the plastic from becoming brittle which will keep it from cracking. Also, as stated above, the holes that are drilled should be larger than the rivet/screw/bolt being put through them. This will allow for expansion/contraction without putting stress on the plastic which is what causes the crack. Also, there are special drill bits for drilling plastic. They have a different shoulder on them. The problem with regular drill bits is that they don't leave a clean enough hole and stress risers are formed inside the hole. This then gets stressed by securing the plastic to the vehicle and cracks are likely to form.
The canopy of the plane I am building is plexi. There are a LOT of handling issues with installing the canopy from edge smoothness to hole spacing to drilling. While it is not exactly the same plastic, the same rules apply.

Chris;
Thanks for reconfirming what I had believed to be happening. In this case; Jamie was told that the reason the plastic was cracking was due to Simply Offroad not receiveing the correct plastic upon their initial order with the plastic vendor. Supposedly; the plastic should have been uv protected. My question was how this property effected the cracking within days of installation of the corner wraps in a cold climate. I could see this happening if the wraps sat in the sweltering heat of our summer for several months.

I'm sure Mike is working on this and will be able to provide a better answer for all of us.

[ChrisK]

My question was how this property effected the cracking within days of installation of the corner wraps in a cold climate. I could see this happening if the wraps sat in the sweltering heat of our summer for several months.
This happens for the same reason you can get a sunburn in the winter. UV rays can still affect things if it is cold. Some plastics are more sensitive to UV then others. If this particular plastic requires UV protection for outdoor use, then it sounds like it is more sensitive. UV protection might solve the problems. Tiime will tell.


BTW - I love your sig. :D

[DsrtJeeper]

This happens for the same reason you can get a sunburn in the winter. UV rays can still affect things if it is cold. Some plastics are more sensitive to UV then others. If this particular plastic requires UV protection for outdoor use, then it sounds like it is more sensitive. UV protection might solve the problems. Tiime will tell.


BTW - I love your sig. :D

Gotcha! I just thought a few days was pretty quick for the rivet holes to crack. Even the PVC lattice on my patio lasted a good six months before splitting in the heat. (I had not slotted the holes on it when attaching to metal framework.) :rolleyes:

Thanks! You'd have to hear my life story to really appreciate the truth behind my sig. ;)

[jeepin_in_az]

This happens for the same reason you can get a sunburn in the winter. UV rays can still affect things if it is cold. Some plastics are more sensitive to UV then others. If this particular plastic requires UV protection for outdoor use, then it sounds like it is more sensitive. UV protection might solve the problems. Tiime will tell.


BTW - I love your sig. :D


Chris is correct, UV rays will crack the HDPE over time. That is why we specifically requested uv protected black HDPE when we ordered it. According to the supplier (we are now switching suppliers because they lied to us), the hole size does not need to be bigger than the fastner size, if you are using the correct product, UV protected. It also does not matter if you use SS or Al. rivets. How fast it cracks is not making sense to the supplier. What is interesting, is most of the cracks are at the top, and at the rear of the Jeep...try to explain that one! I reallly don't think it has to do with how close to the edge it is...or else the other ones would start cracking too near the edge.... Here is a picture of mine.
http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=897&stc=1
http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=898&stc=1


Eric, I never heard where yours is cracked?

Eric, yes the vendor told us this is common practice. They do it all the time. We even told them how we are doing it, and they said that we were doing it correct.

[DsrtJeeper]

Mike;
Thanks for the reply and clarification. I'm curious by nature and I like to discuss these things and try to problem solve. Mine has one little crack on a bottom rivet. Driver's side rear on bottom right next to tailgate. I would guess at body flex causing stress on the plastic, but Jamie's wasn't even wheeled. Hopefully the new plastic will be the answer. I certainly like the lightweight application. ;)

[jeepin_in_az]

Mike;
Thanks for the reply and clarification. I'm curious by nature and I like to discuss these things and try to problem solve. Mine has one little crack on a bottom rivet. Driver's side rear on bottom right next to tailgate. I would guess at body flex causing stress on the plastic, but Jamie's wasn't even wheeled. Hopefully the new plastic will be the answer. I certainly like the lightweight application. ;)

Is this the same side that took the little impact on the floop? :D

Yes, Dave is going to call to talk to thier "expert" today. If the expert can not answer the questions, they are willing to do a conference call with the manufacturer and Dave.

Mine wasn't wheeled either! And it is not wrapped around the corner! :confused:

[DsrtJeeper]

Yes; Mike. That's the side I landed on but the crack is in the rear and not on the side. ??? I took the hardest hit on the top of the tub over the rear driver's side wheel. It's so weird how none of the rivet holes in that direct area were effected. I talked to 4 Wheelers about the plastic they run on the bottom steel skid and 45* rockers and they have no cracking issues at all. You're most likely correct that you just haven't received the correct material yet. Does anyone know what plastic material is regularly used on comp buggies? It resembles plastic cutting board material.

[Griswold]

All the cracks seem to be to the rear of the tub seam where the corner meets the flat side of the tub. The corner of the TJ tub seems to be the the weak link and most flexible area of the tub. The side of the tub has to withstand side pressure. The panel is being pushed against the tub or pulled against a wide flat rivot head. Now bend that panel around the corner and now all of the tub flexing is translated into vertical pressure on the shortest piece of material. The pressure is now on the thru hole very close to the edge of the material.


in case this only makes sense to me i sign,

anonymous

[jeepin_in_az]

Yes; Mike. That's the side I landed on but the crack is in the rear and not on the side. ??? I took the hardest hit on the top of the tub over the rear driver's side wheel. It's so weird how none of the rivet holes in that direct area were effected. I talked to 4 Wheelers about the plastic they run on the bottom steel skid and 45* rockers and they have no cracking issues at all. You're most likely correct that you just haven't received the correct material yet. Does anyone know what plastic material is regularly used on comp buggies? It resembles plastic cutting board material.

It is UHMV..HMUV..crap, I can't remember the name...at any rate, I have a piece of 3/4" at my house, and it is TUFF!!! I am still toying with it as a t-case skid too.

This is one of the options, but it only comes in white, so we have been told by our first supplier...

[jeepin_in_az]

All the cracks seem to be to the rear of the tub seam where the corner meets the flat side of the tub. The corner of the TJ tub seems to be the the weak link and most flexible area of the tub. The side of the tub has to withstand side pressure. The panel is being pushed against the tub or pulled against a wide flat rivot head. Now bend that panel around the corner and now all of the tub flexing is translated into vertical pressure on the shortest piece of material. The pressure is now on the thru hole very close to the edge of the material.


in case this only makes sense to me i sign,

anonymous

But look at my Jeep, it is not wraped around the corner at all....

[Griswold]

That was just my best guess. Is the rivot behind the seam where the two body panels meet?

[jeepin_in_az]

That was just my best guess. Is the rivot behind the seam where the two body panels meet?

Nope....I wish it was so I could know why!

[ChrisK]

After looking at your pics Mike, here's my theory. Right below that rivet is where the wheelwell meets the body side. What I think is happening is that the body (and the plastic) flexes along that seem. For all other holes, this is not a problem since there is only one edge. For the corner, now you have two edges and the plastic can flex in more than one direction and more often centered on the fastener. That, combined with the proximity of the fastener to the edge, is causing the cracking.... I think. Maybe you just need to move that corner fastener in to give more edge distance and make the hole a little bigger for expension/contraction. That will make it so the flex is not concentrated in such a small area.
Now, you are probably saying "but that it is not cracking at that rivet at the bottom behind the wheel. There are 3 edges with that and it is close to all the edges". Well, that strip is much more flexible due to its narrowness so the whole thing flexes. Also, the body itself is more flexible in that area. That area in the upper corner is much less flexible. Something has to give.
Again, this is just a SWAG.
Also, are you using any kind of sealer behind the panel. Some sealers can chemically react with plastic and can cause them to crystalize and become brittle.

[jeepin_in_az]

After looking at your pics Mike, here's my theory. Right below that rivet is where the wheelwell meets the body side. What I think is happening is that the body (and the plastic) flexes along that seem. For all other holes, this is not a problem since there is only one edge. For the corner, now you have two edges and the plastic can flex in more than one direction and more often centered on the fastener. That, combined with the proximity of the fastener to the edge, is causing the cracking.... I think. Maybe you just need to move that corner fastener in to give more edge distance and make the hole a little bigger for expension/contraction. That will make it so the flex is not concentrated in such a small area.
Now, you are probably saying "but that it is not cracking at that rivet at the bottom behind the wheel. There are 3 edges with that and it is close to all the edges". Well, that strip is much more flexible due to its narrowness so the whole thing flexes. Also, the body itself is more flexible in that area. That area in the upper corner is much less flexible. Something has to give.
Again, this is just a SWAG.
Also, are you using any kind of sealer behind the panel. Some sealers can chemically react with plastic and can cause them to crystalize and become brittle.


No, no sealer behind it.

And I blame YOU for all of this Chris! :D

Quote from this thread. (http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/showthread.php?t=6482)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK
Its plastic. Can't you just heat it and wrap it?




1/4" is thick...guess we could try
__________________
Mike Baney

[ChrisK]

Umm....... Oops?? :eek: :D

BTW - Can you get me a 1/2" sheet of this stuff the size of the bottom of my gastank skid? Whenever I fill my tank I get lots of gas fumes. I think the flat bottom of my Kilby skid is deforming the bottome of my fuel tank (pushing up that circular area on the bottom of the tank where the pump is) and causing the pump access to unseal. I want to put the stuff in the bottom of the skid between the tank and the skid with a circular hole in the plastic for the circular tank protrusion. If so, PM me the price.
I actually wrenched on my poor neglected TJ today. I replaced one of the rear upper control arms with one of the "new" Currie ones I got over a year ago. I might even do the other one tomorrow. :D

[Wind_Danzer]

Mike thanks for the PM.

It's kind of suprising the cracks I have. Like Eric said I haven't even wheeled mine anywhere near anything hard. I think I took it out to Castle Hot Springs Rd. after the plastic was put on and that was it. :eek:

Unfortunately I'm away from my computer at the moment on the road but if anyone is interested I can post my cracked pics when I get back on Thursday. I have faith that you will make right by me but it seems I'm the one with the worst luck with this. It couldn't have been more then 2 weeks after I got the plastic that 3 corners cracked on mine. :(

I too would like to stay lightweight as I believe this can be a good product though I might only be willing to give it one more chance...

Rick,

Damn funny stuff man, I broke out cracking up in the hotel lobby. I'm sure they think I'm some crazy FA now. :rolleyes: :D

[jeepin_in_az]

Mike thanks for the PM.

It's kind of suprising the cracks I have. Like Eric said I haven't even wheeled mine anywhere near anything hard. I think I took it out to Castle Hot Springs Rd. after the plastic was put on and that was it. :eek:

Unfortunately I'm away from my computer at the moment on the road but if anyone is interested I can post my cracked pics when I get back on Thursday. I have faith that you will make right by me but it seems I'm the one with the worst luck with this. It couldn't have been more then 2 weeks after I got the plastic that 3 corners cracked on mine. :(

I too would like to stay lightweight as I believe this can be a good product though I might only be willing to give it one more chance...

Rick,

Damn funny stuff man, I broke out cracking up in the hotel lobby. I'm sure they think I'm some crazy FA now. :rolleyes: :D

I just don't understand how this guy has had his stuff for months, and no problems...he is covered from his front fenders to his rear hatch...
http://www.photostep.com/images/2/317666990.jpg

And Joe Daro...but his is white. Any of the white we have done has been fine.

Hang tight Jamie!!! It is just cosmetic and we will get it taken care of!

[flxy_tj]

Yes; Mike. That's the side I landed on but the crack is in the rear and not on the side. ??? I took the hardest hit on the top of the tub over the rear driver's side wheel. It's so weird how none of the rivet holes in that direct area were effected. I talked to 4 Wheelers about the plastic they run on the bottom steel skid and 45* rockers and they have no cracking issues at all. You're most likely correct that you just haven't received the correct material yet. Does anyone know what plastic material is regularly used on comp buggies? It resembles plastic cutting board material.
The stuff is called bultex or something like that they use it for the linings on tractor trailer rigs and the linings in the cargo areas of jets !!! :D
heres a link to the site http://www.linersystems.com/bulitex.htm
That is what I think I'll be using.

[OlneyJeeps]

Not that my dad was a civil and I studied engineering for fun :eek: , but just for shi*s and giggles, what (guessing that you don't already) would happen if you used thick "s" beads of silicone (used widely in construction as it has tremendous holding power when dry) as an adhesive?

While allowing for some flexability corresponding to tempature gradiant coefficient of linear expansion as well as body flex, this would displace a large ammount of the stress placed on the screws (which, after drying of the silicone, you could loosen thereby reducing tendency of stress cracks).

[jeepin_in_az]

Not that my dad was a civil and I studied engineering for fun :eek: , but just for shi*s and giggles, what (guessing that you don't already) would happen if you used thick "s" beads of silicone (used widely in construction as it has tremendous holding power when dry) as an adhesive?

While allowing for some flexability corresponding to tempature gradiant coefficient of linear expansion as well as body flex, this would displace a large ammount of the stress placed on the screws (which, after drying of the silicone, you could loosen tendency of sthereby reducing tress cracks).

Nothing bonds to HDPE...it has to be fastened.

[Tom Jacobson]

Mike,

Interesting read...now I know why you asked me the rivet hole question this AM! :D Now you're gonna force me to go look at it! (But I don't think I have any cracks) Cracks must be a TJ thing! :D :p

Strange, but I thought the substance (carbon black) used to color the plastic black inherently provided UV protection? PE is NOT UV resistant in it's natural form (think of how a milk jug feels when you find one left in the desert).

However, adding something to give a naturally "white" plastic a certain "color" is, in actuality, adding a contaminant to the base resin, so a shift in mechanical properties is common. It's usually just so low with colorants that it really doesn't matter.

PE is a real PITA to bond. But we use it at work for a variety of applications due to other specific properties it offers. There are 2 adhesives that WILL bond PE, but they aren't cheap. The one I have experience with is a 3M product called DP-8005, and it comes in black or semi-clear. Loctite has a product called 3030 that appears (spec-wise) to be the same as the DP-8005, but I haven't used it yet.

Since you're a welder, you may want to investigate RF (radio frequency) welding/welders. It can be used on plastic!!!

Good luck with the material rep expert, though you might get the best info from the guy who manufacturing the material itself.

Hope it all gets settled, as I think you guys have a great idea going. Just experiencing some growing pains...most development items do.

Talk to you later,
Tom

[jeepin_in_az]

Mike,

Interesting read...now I know why you asked me the rivet hole question this AM! :D Now you're gonna force me to go look at it! (But I don't think I have any cracks) Cracks must be a TJ thing! :D :p

Strange, but I thought the substance (carbon black) used to color the plastic black inherently provided UV protection? PE is NOT UV resistant in it's natural form (think of how a milk jug feels when you find one left in the desert).

However, adding something to give a naturally "white" plastic a certain "color" is, in actuality, adding a contaminant to the base resin, so a shift in mechanical properties is common. It's usually just so low with colorants that it really doesn't matter.

PE is a real PITA to bond. But we use it at work for a variety of applications due to other specific properties it offers. There are 2 adhesives that WILL bond PE, but they aren't cheap. The one I have experience with is a 3M product called DP-8005, and it comes in black or semi-clear. Loctite has a product called 3030 that appears (spec-wise) to be the same as the DP-8005, but I haven't used it yet.

Since you're a welder, you may want to investigate RF (radio frequency) welding/welders. It can be used on plastic!!!

Good luck with the material rep expert, though you might get the best info from the guy who manufacturing the material itself.

Hope it all gets settled, as I think you guys have a great idea going. Just experiencing some growing pains...most development items do.

Talk to you later,
Tom

Wow, our supplier did not let us know of the 3M nor the 3030...but how well would it bond to metal? Personally, I can live with a small crack at one of the rivets, as long as none of the others become cracked. I really don't think I would want the plastic bonded to my metal body either...then it would be a real PITA to replace the plastic, which is one of the selling points.

Let me know if you see the cracks...so we can replace it when we figure it all out!

Thanks Tom,

[Tom Jacobson]

I've been using the 3M product to bond PE to itself, to graphite/epoxy resin structures and some aluminums (bare and anodized). We don't utilize any painted steel components here, so I don't have direct info. But I would <guess> that the bond to the body would be at least as strong as the bond to the PE.

Tom

[flxy_tj]

Why dont you use this stuff ..... http://www.linersystems.com/bulitex.htm.
It is way better then plastic. It is a composite material used in the shipping industry. I have seen it take a good beating in aircraft cargo holds. Also thye use it on some comp buggies.
Seems to me it would work alot better. Just my thoughts though. But now I've let you guys in on my secret. :D :D

[Wind_Danzer]

So, not so much to bring the whole spat back to the top but I'd like to know if there is anymore news.

I seem to have a few more rivets backing out on me now though no more cracks.

[jeepin_in_az]

So, not so much to bring the whole spat back to the top but I'd like to know if there is anymore news.

I seem to have a few more rivets backing out on me now though no more cracks.

Dave got a small piece of a newer material yesterday, and he was able to make one side for his XJ (very small piece) and I think he is going to go test it Friday morning out at Woodpecker. With the little scrap that is left from there, Rob is going to put it to the heat test with a couple of heat guns and a torch :D

As far as the rivets, they just need to be drilled out and pop new ones back in. If you want to run it by, I would be more than happy to pop some new ones in for you. Just let me know how many you need done so I can make sure I have them...Really strange..yours (can't remember if Eric's is doing it too) is the only one having rivet issues...maybe we used an aluminum rivet instead of a steel one??? :confused:

[jeepin_in_az]

Why dont you use this stuff ..... http://www.linersystems.com/bulitex.htm.
It is way better then plastic. It is a composite material used in the shipping industry. I have seen it take a good beating in aircraft cargo holds. Also thye use it on some comp buggies.
Seems to me it would work alot better. Just my thoughts though. But now I've let you guys in on my secret. :D :D

Sorry Jon, didn't see your post till Jamie dragged this back up :p

That stuff is cool, but it is thin.

I would really like to use UHMV, but again I *think* it only comes in white, and it is $$$$$.

[Wind_Danzer]

Well if I'm getting whole new wraps, then I will just wait on the rivets. Can't tell you about why the rivets are backing out, they just are.

I figured I'd fill you in on them, something else for quality control. :D