Crown King Trail

[Steve Peterson]

I have friends who recently checked out or TRIED to check out the condition of the road. From Crown King one went to Oro Belle & where the ledge was there is NO road. The side of the mountain where the road was was partially washed away. From the Lake Pleasant side another tried to go up & the road was washed away about one mile in. If you remember where the Chimney was on the side of the road that is where he got to.

The one guy who went in from the CK side said that two guys on motorcycles made it up in 5 1/2 hours instead of 1 1/2 hours & did not try the return trip back. My friend said that the road at that time was impassable to even get to Oro Belle due to mudslide after the cattle guard.

I was not sure where to post this but figured if somebody read it & felt it should be posted somewhere else they could move it.

After reading about this much damage to CK trail people should take note that probably most trails are not the same anymore. One person wants to run Turkey Creek at this time. GOOD LUCK & happy swimming. :-)

[DsrtJeeper]

Thanks for the update; Steve.

[Sedona Jeep School]

This would be a good opportunity for the club to partner with the Prescott National Forest, and do some good old-fashioned back-breaking labor to get the road passable again. In fact, it would be appropriate for us to adopt this trail, if a non-organized entity may do so. This is part of what Don has touched on with the "Changing our Image" thread.

I would be happy to organize a trail maintenance effort, and I am good with a shovel, too. I will make some calls to find out what can be done. Anyone have any input?

Maybe this should be moved to the Land Use and Community Service topics?

[highjeeps]

I'd contribute a back and a shovel to the road clearing effort. I'd sure like to see some photos. Did anyone take any?

[jeepsonly]

I'm in if someone wants to contact them and arrange it. I bet you could get several from here to help out. We need allies in the Forest Service.

[Triple-XJ]

Nena, Count Me in :)

[Steve Peterson]

When I questioned my friend about the damage & possible repair he said some heavy equipment would be handy. A 10-15 foot drop off where the road makes the turn across the "creek" at the wall at the mine. My friend said that it is hard to put into words to convey the damage. BTW he was on a quad & that it would be next to impossible to get by the slide. I would like to get up there to take a look myself & maybe get some pictures.

[bgwhtjp33]

I'll lend a hand just let me know when

[skruize]

We were up there on 4x4 quads today. The first washed out section is only about 2-3 miles into the CK trail from Cow Creek Rd. Its not too far from the rock chimney.

I attempted to pass it on the left side near the pond and started sliding before almost rolling into the pond. My buddy jumped on for ballast and we got the winch line out and pulled the quad clear of the pond. So then we did some trail fixing by stacking rocks so that the quads could pass through but its still hairy. There is no chance whatsoever that a Jeep can get through at this point. Once the pond starts to dry up people will then attempt to bypass it but it will be off camber.

See the attached pictures to see the damage. The picture doesn't do it justice, that hole is steep and the kiss of death if you tip into it. The pond bank is very offcamber too.

A little farther up I forgot that i wasn't rockcrawling in a Jeep. Just as I started up this V crack I told Phil on the Scrambler "Watch this, I'm about to do something stupid". I proceeded to lay my Bombardier Outlander 4x4 on its side. Out came the winch line again. :D

[Turtle]

Nena... count me in as well! I'd be willin' to lend a hand!

Turtle!

[bgwhtjp33]

Scott how far did you go, is there any other spots that needs to be fixed

BTW nice pics.

[skruize]

We went as far as the first rockcrawl section. It was wet and cold out there! That is just a few miles past the 2 old cars in the wash. So I have no idea how worse it was farther up. But I tell you this, that whole trail up to that point is in the roughest condition I've seen in 12 years.

[RufftyTuffty]

Looks like about 20 tonnes of large rock fill to me....

[Sedona Jeep School]

The most likely parts to be seriously bad (in my recollection) are right before and right after the Oro Belle. Remember right before the mine, where there is an off-camber ledge on the right and a drop off on the left, cut away by erosion (picture below--pardon the non-Jeep images--they were the only ones I had of that spot)? That must be gone! I don't know if you can even get any heavy equipment up there--maybe from the Wagoner Road side. We should try to plan this for later Spring, IF it ever stops raining. I will start making calls and keep you posted. Thanks everyone--the response is awesome, as usual!

http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=883&stc=1

[BobnJeep]

Once when I told my boss that I had done this trail with this group, his eyes lit up with excitement and he said it had been years since he did that trail, but that he remebered it well. I'll try to talk to him about using atleast a truck and a "bobcat" (Case actually) if not use our backhoe.

[Sedona Jeep School]

Once when I told my boss that I had done this trail with this group, his eyes lit up with excitement and he said it had been years since he did that trail, but that he remebered it well. I'll try to talk to him about using atleast a truck and a "bobcat" (Case actually) if not use our backhoe.
That would be great!! We could get other "sponsors", too, to donate time, equipment, snacks, etc. Good PR for them, as well as AZVJC.

[fhjonesjr]

I'ld be willing to help also but need to ride with someone. My stock ZJ wouldn't be able to get even close in this condition. :D

[Brad]

I went up and took a look at part of the Crown King trail today. I took Senator road up to trail 192 and went up 192 to the Crown King trail. 192 intersects with the Crown King trail at the last hairpin turn before getting to the Oro Belle mine. Here’s a shot of the CK trail from a hill on 192, it’s the one that goes all the way across the picture climbing toward the left.
http://www.photodump.com/direct/a292/CK01.jpg

I only made it a little ways past the cattle guard before the mine as there was a three foot rock blocking the trail. It could be easily moved with a winch or a few people but being out there alone I didn’t want to mess with it. I had hoped to at least get to the “step” and the mine, but maybe next time...
http://www.photodump.com/direct/a292/CK02.jpg

I decided to turn around and head toward Fort Misery but didn’t make it too far in that direction either. Just below the hairpin turn the little wash that used to run right beside the trail has cut a new path right down the trail. All the water was flowing on the trail leaving the original wash dry. This part was drivable with the deep rut being about 18” deep but I decided against it. It was at best more than a two hour drive back to Crown King from here, I had crossed several major washes, the hills were already very muddy and slick, and it was threatening rain. When I’m that far out by myself I’ll always err on the safe side. I had no desire to have to waste time winching myself out of a mistake, too much chance of the rain letting loose and getting blocked in by the washes.
http://www.photodump.com/direct/a292/CK03.jpg
http://www.photodump.com/direct/a292/CK04.jpg

[Brad]

A couple more shots of the washed out area.
http://www.photodump.com/direct/a292/CK05.jpg
http://www.photodump.com/direct/a292/CK06.jpg

Here’s a picture of the cattle guard before the mine. It was just past this point that the rock was blocking the trail.
http://www.photodump.com/direct/a292/CK07.jpg

Same spot but zoomed out to give a better perspective. The mine is up the canyon a ways.
http://www.photodump.com/direct/a292/CK08.jpg

[Brad]

Here’s a shot of Lake Pleasant from trail 192.
http://www.photodump.com/direct/a292/CK09.jpg

One more shot of CK trail above the mine. As you can see the ceiling was getting lower. It was time to head out with all due haste as I was still more than two hours from Crown King.
http://www.photodump.com/direct/a292/CK10.jpg

When I got back to the top end of the CK trail I decided to head down and see if I could get to the spot where the mountain had given way. The top of the trail is extremely rough now, almost unrecognizable. Lots of trees had fallen across the trail but someone had cut and moved them. I got in about 3/4 of a mile or so and it started to rain. Once again I decided to play it safe. I was almost down to 1/4 tank of fuel, the trail was very rough and muddy, it was getting late, and it was now raining. It was time to head out, I had no desire to spend the night there.

Brad

[k7mto]

Wow, sections of that trail are in serious need of water bars to route the water across the trail and prevent that kind of erosion. I've never run this trail, but I'm willing to donate some blood, sweat and tears to keep it open for when I do.

[OlneyJeeps]

Rock stacking? But that might decrease the "challenge" :eek:

Even though modifications to the trail wouldn't be necessary for my vehicle :D :D :D
set the time and I'll be there (got a Cruz-air 40 backhoe w/4WD and 83's, but it's in AK)

[ScoobyDoo]

Keep us updated on this, I would be glad to come out and help.
Crown king runs would be a terrible thing to loose :(
And I agree it would be a GREAT PR move for the club to adopt this trail !

[Sedona Jeep School]

Brad, Thanks for the awesome recon report (and nice rig, too, by the way!). I don't see anything in those pictures that would absolutely require the use of heavy equipment to repair (though it would make it quicker and easier!). I would like to see what the section right by the mine looks like before I open my mouth (oops, too late!)

Okay, and now for the interesting part:

I spoke with a very helpful straight-shooter at the Forest Service today. Apparently, the Adopt-a-Trail Program proved to be illegal, and has been scrapped for now. BUT, we can apply for a Road Use Permit, which would grant us the ability to repair and maintain within certain parameters (all of which were very reasonable). It will take some time, as the application must be signed off by each of the department heads. But, the sooner we apply the more likely we are to get a quicker approval, before high-season starts.

Here is one catch: They need the name of a responsible person to be the signer and contactee to take responsibility for the proper conduct of the club under the Road Use Permit. I hesitate to volunteer because: A) I am involved in the commercial use permit process, and there is a potential for perceived conflict; and B) be responsible for YOU GUYS?!? :eek: Yikes! :D

Volunteers? Nominees? Input?

[Brad]

Brad, Thanks for the awesome recon report (and nice rig, too, by the way!). I don't see anything in those pictures that would absolutely require the use of heavy equipment to repair (though it would make it quicker and easier!).

No problem, I had a great time out there. Obviously I only looked at a tiny portion of the trail. The rock can be easily moved. I'm sure I could drive over the washed out area without any problem but I'm equally sure it would stop a stock Jeep cold. And thanks for the compliment!

I'm going to head back out there this Sunday and get an early start. I want to move that rock and see what it looks like at the Oro Belle mine. I'd also like to drive past the washed out area and head to Fort Misery. The main wash flows right past there and I'd like to take a look at it. Time and trail conditions permiting, I'll go on past Fort Misery a ways. I'd prefer to have another rig out there with me this time, otherwise I'll play it way on the safe side again. Due to the length of this trip I'll want to be out at the end of the pavement on the Bumble Bee exit, aired down and ready to go by 8:00 at the very latest. It will be an all day trip. Unfortunately, due to the poor road conditions I seriously doubt that a stock rig would make it. Any takers?

Brad

[Sedona Jeep School]

I would love to go. (But 8 AM?!!!? -- I don't know if I am that dedicated! :D ) I will have to see what business is like for the weekend.

FYI, I posted this thread in the Community Service area. Still looking for "responsible person"...

[Brad]

8am is actually on the late side for me! :D I would have put 7am but then I was pretty sure no one would go. I pass on a lot of runs due to the 9 or 10am starts, I want to be on the trails earlier than that! Anyway, the drive from Bumble Bee is a long one and I want to have time to check out the trail without being rushed.

With you being in Sedona it may be a shorter drive for you to come through Prescott and meet where the trail from Crown King past Towers Mountain meets with the trail going from Prescott to Wagner. I would guess I'd be at that intersection around 9:00 or 9:15 but I'm not really sure just how long it takes to get that far from Bumble Bee.

As far as someone taking charge of the trail maintenance, I work every Saturday so would probably not be a good choice. I'll be glad to help on the maintenance though, as long as we don't improve the trail TOO much. :) Just enough to make it passable and keep it fun...

Have a good day
Brad

[My1stJeep]

Anyone interested in starting out at LP and heading up that way? Saturday maybe???

[Crawldit]

I wish I could come run to check the trail out but have prior engagements. Keep us up to date about when the reconstruction will happen, I'd be more than happy to lend some muscle to the cause.

[Brad]

I'm going to head back out there this Sunday and get an early start. I want to move that rock and see what it looks like at the Oro Belle mine. I'd also like to drive past the washed out area and head to Fort Misery. The main wash flows right past there and I'd like to take a look at it. Time and trail conditions permiting, I'll go on past Fort Misery a ways. I'd prefer to have another rig out there with me this time, otherwise I'll play it way on the safe side again. Due to the length of this trip I'll want to be out at the end of the pavement on the Bumble Bee exit, aired down and ready to go by 8:00 at the very latest. It will be an all day trip. Unfortunately, due to the poor road conditions I seriously doubt that a stock rig would make it. Any takers?

Brad

I haven't gotten any replies so I'm canceling this run and joining a different one.

Have a good day
Brad

[Sedona Jeep School]

Brad--sorry I didn't confirm or deny a run with you. I was too busy to go, let alone post back to you!

Update on Forest Service: No one indicated any interest in representing the club for a road use permit, so I asked them to send all of the pertinent information to me. Whether OR NOT :cool: the paperwork goes through, we should wait until at least the end of April to do any serious repair at that elevation.

I will continue to post updates, and keep a running list of willing participants.

Happy trails :)

[AZrubicon]

Here are a couple of photos taken Saturday, Feb 26. (I was not with, so I don't know any locations of these photos)

Channel down the middle of the trail.
http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=936&stc=1

A short distance south of Orobelle, the group and some other 4-wheelers check out the road damage. The group turned around here and went back to Lake Pleasant.
http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=937&stc=1

[Sedona Jeep School]

Thanks for posting the great pics! Wow! I would say the trail rating has increased significantly! :D

[Triple-XJ]

WOW :eek:
That trail is torn UP,
thanks for posting more pics

[DrunkenKyle]

well that sucks...That was the first trail that I have ever been on. I hope we can reapir ir, we're going to need some sort of "heavy equipment" up there to move some dirt around..those ruts are HUGE!!!! :(

[OlneyJeeps]

Not to start a flame war :eek: (oh what the heck , just got a new flame suit :D ) but could someone clarify the difference between stacking and maintenance/improvement?

[Crawldit]

I tried to take my family out to see the resort at Castle Hot Springs on Sunday but the road was closed. You can't even get to the CK turn off from Castle Hot Springs road right now. Alot of people were going around the Road Closed sign so we followed just to see how far you could get. The part of the road that travels through the river bottom is actually a river. We stopped there to eat lunch and look at the water and saw first hand two different trucks that tried to cross and wound up getting stuck. If Castle Hot Springs Road is that bad I can only imagine what the CK trail beyond that looks like. Sorry I didn't take any pictures :(

[roger]

I would tend to think that Crown King's economy depends heavily on the CK trail because just about everyone who travels that trail stops in CK for some food and beverages. Since they have a vested interest, I think it would be good to coordinate efforts with them - at least those efforts conducted from their end of the trail.

-Roger

[Sedona Jeep School]

Not to start a flame war :eek: (oh what the heck , just got a new flame suit :D ) but could someone clarify the difference between stacking and maintenance/improvement?
Whether or not the Forest Service has ordained it... :D

Since we are talking about doing the maintenance as a group, maybe we should decide what level it should be? The limitation the USFS has is that we don't make it a two lane highway or passable by 2WD. SOooo...do we bring it back to a 3.0? +? This could start a hot debate also, but what rating do we think it was as of, say, last September?

[1BLKJP]

Last Sept. that trail was way too easy. I think that most of the things that nature has done to it are a good thing. I am thinking that we might just want to fill in a couple of the 4-6 ft. deep drops and if there are some boulders that have rolled down on the trail then move those. But otherwise I don't see any problems with the water line that i have seen down the middle of some of the pics. You should need to be in 4wd to do this trail If we keep it more like the way it's becoming then we can limit the 2wd trucks and such that think they can make it. Because of where the sections are that are now a challenge I don't see any ways that a safe bypass can be created by someone so they will need to stay out.

[DrunkenKyle]

You should need to be in 4wd to do this trail If we keep it more like the way it's becoming then we can limit the 2wd trucks and such that think they can make it. Because of where the sections are that are now a challenge I don't see any ways that a safe bypass can be created by someone so they will need to stay out.

agreed, but at the other hand, there are a lot more than "us jeeps guys" who could possibly enjoy this trail just as much as we do. Every time Im on this trail I always see alot of quads, dirt bikes, etc. who will have no way to pass this trail. So when are we going to get out the shovels and pick axe's?

[Haulin]

here some more pictures
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227898&page=3&pp=10

[XPLRN]

I tried to take my family out to see the resort at Castle Hot Springs on Sunday but the road was closed. You can't even get to the CK turn off from Castle Hot Springs road right now. Alot of people were going around the Road Closed sign so we followed just to see how far you could get. The part of the road that travels through the river bottom is actually a river. We stopped there to eat lunch and look at the water and saw first hand two different trucks that tried to cross and wound up getting stuck. If Castle Hot Springs Road is that bad I can only imagine what the CK trail beyond that looks like. Sorry I didn't take any pictures :(
This link will show you some water pictures taken on CHS road on 02-20 2005. It was sure a change from how I'm normally used to seeing it!! :eek: :D

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227898&page=1&pp=10

'XPLRN'

[Crawldit]

Nice pics. The water was a little lower on Sunday but it was still moving pretty good.

[Haulin]

as of today...

[Wind_Danzer]

Haulin, that rolled Toy wasn't in your group was he? :eek:

[Haulin]

yup got to the bank it let go and rolled it over...everyone was ok slow but sure flop..

[bgwhtjp33]

WOW! those are some BIG wash outs. Glad to here everyone is ok. What was the driver doing when that happend? :eek:

[Haulin]

doing the Oh shait !impressiion :D

[OlneyJeeps]

Is that some guy helping to restore the trail (someone mentioned stacking rocks to fill in holes, I never thought of stacking Chevy's :D :D )?

[OlneyJeeps]

did you get it upright, or is it still out there?

[OlneyJeeps]

Is road passable?
(deciding which Jeep to take)
with:
a: TJ 3" lift, 33" AT
b: XJ w/4" lift, 31" AT
c: CJ2A 2" lift 32" MT, locker in rear
D: CJ7 5" lift, f+r lockers, 35" MT
E: stock ZJ, 31" at (yeah right, the wife would kill me if I added more rrash)
F: Power Wheels w/twin 12v rear motors

[Heywood]

here some more pictures
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227898&page=3&pp=10

These CLOWNS are the reasons trails get shut down..they openly talk about cutting new trails, brush, and other things down so they can tear up the area. I have always said the motorcycle crowd is the one trashing the desert, and this proves it!

:eek: :mad:

[Haulin]

I heard they now have it closed,,and it isnt passable without some winchs and some hard damm work...and yes we we did flip the truck back over with my winch,,thats where we turned around ..we did have a enough trails rigs with us to try to do the rest...

[Haulin]

Someone else commits on the trail
http://www.wildwestriders.com/forum/showthread.php?t=262

[skruize]

I follow the Wild West Riders forum as well. I was going to go out with them this weekend. But with the rain it sounds like they are going to hold off unless something changes. But we can definitely coordinate a trail repair effort once Nina has more details.

[Wind_Danzer]

As of today:

Oro Belle:

http://tinypic.com/21d18o

http://tinypic.com/21d1cw

http://tinypic.com/21d1dj

http://tinypic.com/21d1eo

There is now a bypass to get around to continue onto Crown King from Oro Belle, it is the trail to the left, the old road is/was on the right:

http://tinypic.com/21d1j7

These are the ruts and crack to the south of Oro Belle, it's got to be about 5 feet deep:

http://tinypic.com/21d1k6

http://tinypic.com/21d1lc

http://tinypic.com/21d1qh

The creek where the old road was. There is now a bypass, which is where I took that picture and you can see it being used by a CJ:

http://tinypic.com/21d1ti

http://tinypic.com/21d1uh

We saw lots of vehicles out there today, mostly bikes and quads but people were coming to and from Crown King on that trail. I have to say though, that this is no longer a stocker friendly trail, I'm not even sure if I could have pulled it off with my 31's.

[Linda]

I have some left over chain link and livestock fence material that would be good for erosion control.