blooddrive
01-03-2004, 07:39 AM
12038-12062 of 96475 | Previous | Next [ First | Last ] Msg # Date | Thread
12038 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 8:37am
Subject: Re: Re: stop stop stop
I suspect those AZVJC stickers carry a little more weight now - at least
at Bill Luke. They're probably gonna cringe every time they see a Jeep
with a sticker on it pull into the service department. Ha ha ha! Keeps
them on their toes.
-Roger
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
12039 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 8:50am
Subject: Table Mesa Exit to Aqua Fria River Cleanup
Table Mesa Exit to Aqua Fria River Cleanup
Day: Saturday
Date: Oct 14, 2000
Time: 9:00AM
Meeting Place: West side of I-17 beyond the end of the pavement.
Organized by the People For USA and the Phoenix Four Wheelers in
cooperation with the Lake Pleasant Regional Recreation Area, the Arizona
State Land Department, and the Bureau of Land Management.
The dumpster will be provided by Diamond Disposal and the trash bags by
BLM.
If you have any questions, contact Harvey or Ron at the Canyon Service
Center in Black Canyon City (623) 374-9443.
--
or you can email me, and I'll get your questions answered.
daver@c...
12040 From: Chatfield, Mike <mchat@h...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 8:50am
Subject: FWD: Please read about Bill Luke
To the Internet Sales People: Originally you were CC'd only to let you know
what was happening.
Realize that in the public eye, Bill Luke is a single business, a team.
To the Service Manager: I am satisfied that Jeff Meade has been refunded
what was wrongfully
charged. Myself and others will likely consider your business in the
future; having contacted Jeff
to refund his money BEFORE the e-mails reached you is a positive. However,
a little talk with
your service department may be in order, something about the customer always
being right...
My point is, that if things had been done right in the first place, or
handled correctly in the 2nd,
none of this would have happened. With the Information Age now upon us,
consumer reports, like
this one, spread like wild fire.
Thank you for your time,
- Mike Chatfield
-------------------------------- Original MessageFollows
-----------------------------
Hey all --I sent the original post after I had a frustrating conversation
with
the service advisor on (he said) the service manager's behalf. I was under
the
impression that the service manager wasn't going to call and Bill Luke
wasn't
going to resolve this, so I sent the post explaining the service.So then I
get a
call from Service Manager, he hadn't seen or heard anything about my posting
but
I did mention my conversation with the service advisor. He refunded me the
$38
because he didn't want to lose a valued customer and said, although the
disconnected vacuum line might not have been a result of the original work,
he
would happily give me not only $38 but more to compensate. That's very
generous. I did, however, ask him to please only send me $38 as I felt that
was
acceptable. On his staff's defense, the sales manager spoke very highly of
his
staff and especially his sales advisor. To say the least, he was *very*
upset
when the internet sales department (not his department) was inundated with
mail
about this issue after it was resolved. I explained to the sales manager
that I
posted back to the group about the $38 refund but there were still messages
being sent on the original issue.This may sound ungrateful, but I feel
really
bad about the treatment Bill Luke's staff has gotten as a result of this.
The
internet sales staff has nothing to do with this issue yet because they were
the
first email address someone was able to find that's the address all
subsequent
messages were going. I can't believe that. I do agree that if the sales
manager's email address would have been more easily found from their website
(if
at all) the messages would have been sent to the appropriate address in the
first place. I appreciate and am glad to see the level of support this
group
gives.All I can say is please let it drop. The service manager took care of
business professionally and I thank him for that. When I get the check in
the
mail he can be rest assured I will spend all of the money on parts from Bill
Luke's parts department.Sincerely,Jeff BTW, is it too early for a beer?
:)
12041 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 8:55am
Subject: Re: TR ZJ Terminator Friday 8/25/00 5:00- 7:00pm
It looks like I will be arriving at the parking lot area on Table Mesa
Road about 7:00pm. Anyone that wants to go in with me around that time
shoot me an email so I know to wait for you.
-Roger
William Mish wrote:
>
> Meeting place: Table Mesa "Parking lot". See attachment for rough
> directions. Expect the last escort to the trail to leave at around 7:00pm,
> So be there before then. If you get there before 7:00, and no one's there,
> wait a bit, someone will be along shortly.If you won't be there before
> 7:00pm, running late or whatever, and you don't know where you are going,
> Get on Channel 4 of your CB and make your intent known.
>
> Those of you that know where the trail is, please check the "Parking Lot"
> for rigs that want to help, and need an escort in!
>
> I'm going to be up there at 5:00pm, I will take the trailer and truck back
> to the end of the Terminator trail, providing I have at least one Jeep with
> me, and will meet you all on the trail. As people arrive, we can start
> hauling out the pieces. With 8 Jeeps in, I think we could pair up on the
> haul out. Preferably one unloaded vehicle in front with one towing a piece
> behind, that way the one up front can spot, be a winch anchor or lend a pull
> strap if needed. Haulers,Trust me on this: Do not be shy to take a strap,
> winch cable, or whatever. Just go until the wheels spin, then stop and get
> help! Don't break!!
>
> If there aren't enough parts to go around, we'll have a "Trail Parade" to
> celebrate The final removal!!
> While doing this, let's keep our eyes on the trail for rubbish or fallen
> pieces, and pick them up. maybe co - pilots or spotters can help out with
> this.
>
> I still need people to help load the trailer at the end of the trail. There
> are already parts there, so this potentially could begin as the "drag out"
> occurs. If nobody wants to miss the trail action, I'll understand, and we
> can do it when everything gets to the trailer. Keep in mind, I would like
> the front of the trailer to have all the heavy pieces, like Axles and motor.
>
> Bring chain, heavy work gloves, tow rope, plenty of water, and flashlights
> in addition to whatever else you would pack.
>
> On the confirmed attendance list I have: (in no particular order)
>
> DougB (and Clan)
> Dan Frazer
> Keith Auble
> Roger Tomas
> Devon Whitney
> Chris (cmandrick)
> Todd Jaramillo
> Mike Anderson
> Ross Skinner
> Greg Banfield Bronco owner :( Hey, someone's gotta crash the Jeep party!
> Linda Luik
>
> Hopefully you all will make it, and more are welcome.
>
> Bill Mish
> Yldkat
> 1955 Willys CJ3B
> http://drive.to/yldkat55
12042 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 9:01am
Subject: Re: Table Mesa Exit to Aqua Fria River Cleanup
I asked this before but got no response. Is the cleanup to include
"the dump" where the shooters set up trash for targets and then just
leave it?
If so, I suggest that someone heads over to Ben Avery Shooting Range
to see about getting gun clubs and individual gun owners to help out
too. Maybe fliers could be put up in the gun shops around the valley
too. I am not a gun owner myself but I can invite the gun club here
at the company I work for.
-Roger
Daver wrote:
>
> Table Mesa Exit to Aqua Fria River Cleanup
>
> Day: Saturday
> Date: Oct 14, 2000
> Time: 9:00AM
> Meeting Place: West side of I-17 beyond the end of the pavement.
>
> Organized by the People For USA and the Phoenix Four Wheelers in
> cooperation with the Lake Pleasant Regional Recreation Area, the Arizona
> State Land Department, and the Bureau of Land Management.
>
> The dumpster will be provided by Diamond Disposal and the trash bags by
> BLM.
>
> If you have any questions, contact Harvey or Ron at the Canyon Service
> Center in Black Canyon City (623) 374-9443.
12043 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 9:15am
Subject: Re: Table Mesa Exit to Aqua Fria River Cleanup
Per Ron clean up is going to be focused on the sides of the road, i.e.
the _most_ noticeable area. The clean up _will_ certainly include the
area you mention providing there is enough turnout. I have forwarded
your suggestion about gun clubs.
Roger Tomas wrote:
>
> I asked this before but got no response. Is the cleanup to include
> "the dump" where the shooters set up trash for targets and then just
> leave it?
>
> If so, I suggest that someone heads over to Ben Avery Shooting Range
> to see about getting gun clubs and individual gun owners to help out
> too. Maybe fliers could be put up in the gun shops around the valley
> too. I am not a gun owner myself but I can invite the gun club here
> at the company I work for.
>
> -Roger
>
> Daver wrote:
> >
> > Table Mesa Exit to Aqua Fria River Cleanup
> >
> > Day: Saturday
> > Date: Oct 14, 2000
> > Time: 9:00AM
> > Meeting Place: West side of I-17 beyond the end of the pavement.
> >
> > Organized by the People For USA and the Phoenix Four Wheelers in
> > cooperation with the Lake Pleasant Regional Recreation Area, the Arizona
> > State Land Department, and the Bureau of Land Management.
> >
> > The dumpster will be provided by Diamond Disposal and the trash bags by
> > BLM.
> >
> > If you have any questions, contact Harvey or Ron at the Canyon Service
> > Center in Black Canyon City (623) 374-9443.
12044 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 1:39pm
Subject: Crown King Jim Myers Memorial Run Sunday
On Sunday P4W will be running Crown King im memory of Jim Myers.
Jim Myers recently passed away, but was very active for many years in AZ
4-wheeling.
Any one active in the State Assoc. has probably met him at one time or
another.
We will be meeting at the White Horse between 8AM and 9AM.
You can email me for more information, or call me or my wife (Roni) @
602-938-3685.
12045 From: <grafik_lar@y...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 4:09pm
Subject: Message sent to me from Mr. Ed
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 1:02 PM
Subject: [Fwd: Urgent - White Tanks Sat]
: See Tammy Pike's message below!
:
: No tires will be put in dumpsters this time!
: Get the word out if you or someone you know
: is going to attend this clean-up!
:
: Thanks! ~Ziggy
:
: -------- Original Message --------
: Subject: Urgent - White Tanks Sat
: Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:13:49 -0700
: From: "Tamarya Pike" <TPike@l...>
: To: <ziggy@c...>
:
: Ziggy,
:
: Hello. I am on the run and need you to help if you can.
:
: The dumpster people just called and they need to make sure NO,
absolutely
none,
: nada, zero, zilch...tires are put in the dumpster. They were
adamant
about it.
: Will you please remind everyone that is going to get the word out
that
tires
: should be stacked to one side and NOT put in the dumpster.
:
: Thanx
: Tammy
:
12046 From: Tom Quinn <tom@q...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 4:16pm
Subject: Terminator tonight
I'm planning to leave Gilbert around 5:00 to head up to Table Mesa
Road. If there's anyone wanting to tag along or follow, send me an e-
mail asap. I was going to swing by Costco (Southern/Country Club)
for gas, we could meet there maybe.
Tom
12047 From: Linda Luik <linda.luik@m...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 4:26pm
Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: Urgent - White Tanks Sat]]
FYI
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:53:07 MST
From: Ziggy ziggy@c...
Subject: [Fwd: Urgent - White Tanks Sat]
To: ASA4WDC LIST asa4wdc@a... , Bob Carney AzRecTravelclub@h... , Brad Jones bradjones@u... , "CBoetel@a..." CBoetel@a... , "charlie.h.bab****@i..." charlie.h.bab****@i... , Doug Schultz saguaro6@h... , Ed Melendy emelendy@u... , "kipboetel@h..." kipboetel@h... , Kurt Loga logaks@h... , "Linda Luik (p14175)" p14175@e... , "lizthemechanic@e..." lizthemechanic@e... , "mary_boetel@n..." mary_boetel@n... , Ray_Jenkins-RW9340@email, "SJBolander@a..." SJBolander@a...
See Tammy Pike's message below!
No tires will be put in dumpsters this time!
Get the word out if you or someone you know
is going to attend this clean-up!
Thanks! ~Ziggy
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Urgent - White Tanks Sat
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:13:49 -0700
From: "Tamarya Pike" <TPike@lnd.state.az.us>
To: <ziggy@cybertrails.com>
Ziggy,
Hello. I am on the run and need you to help if you can.
The dumpster people just called and they need to make sure NO, absolutely none,
nada, zero, zilch...tires are put in the dumpster. They were adamant about it.
Will you please remind everyone that is going to get the word out that tires
should be stacked to one side and NOT put in the dumpster.
Thanx
Tammy
Attachment: vcard [not shown]
12048 From: Linda Luik <linda.luik@m...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 4:29pm
Subject: Re: Re: Copyright violation
Wow! I'll bet that that picture I took of Jess' Waagoneer on the Miner's
Revenge Trail has made it to a few web pages. Oh well.... I consider any
pctures I post on Photopoint as public. I really don't care so as long
they are used against 4-wheeling.
Linda
Attachment: vcard [not shown]
12049 From: Linda Luik <linda.luik@m...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 4:31pm
Subject: Re: Re: Copyright violation
Oops! .....so as long as they are NOT used against 4-wheeling.
These Dell keyboards are lousy!
Linda
"Linda Luik (p14175)" wrote:
>
> Wow! I'll bet that that picture I took of Jess' Waagoneer on the Miner's
> Revenge Trail has made it to a few web pages. Oh well.... I consider any
> pctures I post on Photopoint as public. I really don't care so as long
> they are used against 4-wheeling.
>
> Linda
> -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates
> of 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Ongoing APR* and no annual fee!
> Apply NOW!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/7872/11/_/1966/_/967245700/
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
Attachment: vcard [not shown]
12050 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 5:40pm
Subject: Re: TR ZJ Terminator Friday 8/25/00 5:00- 7:00pm
BTW I just read in the paper that I-17 south bound will be closed at 9pm
tonite (I think at Betheny Home), so alternates will be needed for the trip
back.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Tomas" <tomasr@a...>
To: "William Mish" <yldkat55@h...>
Cc: "Motoman" <emotoman@e...>; "AZ_VJC" <AZ_VJC@egroups.com>;
"Chris" <cmandrick@v...>; "Mike Anderson" <msa12171@a...>;
"crusari" <crusari@p...>; "DougB" <azjeep@h...>; "Dan Frazer"
<notaborg@h...>; "Todd Jaramillo" <todd.jaramillo@a...>; "Devon
Whitney" <a74cj6@a...>; <linda.luik@M...>
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] TR ZJ Terminator Friday 8/25/00 5:00- 7:00pm
> It looks like I will be arriving at the parking lot area on Table Mesa
> Road about 7:00pm. Anyone that wants to go in with me around that time
> shoot me an email so I know to wait for you.
>
> -Roger
>
> William Mish wrote:
> >
> > Meeting place: Table Mesa "Parking lot". See attachment for rough
> > directions. Expect the last escort to the trail to leave at around
7:00pm,
> > So be there before then. If you get there before 7:00, and no one's
there,
> > wait a bit, someone will be along shortly.If you won't be there before
> > 7:00pm, running late or whatever, and you don't know where you are
going,
> > Get on Channel 4 of your CB and make your intent known.
> >
> > Those of you that know where the trail is, please check the "Parking
Lot"
> > for rigs that want to help, and need an escort in!
> >
> > I'm going to be up there at 5:00pm, I will take the trailer and truck
back
> > to the end of the Terminator trail, providing I have at least one Jeep
with
> > me, and will meet you all on the trail. As people arrive, we can start
> > hauling out the pieces. With 8 Jeeps in, I think we could pair up on the
> > haul out. Preferably one unloaded vehicle in front with one towing a
piece
> > behind, that way the one up front can spot, be a winch anchor or lend a
pull
> > strap if needed. Haulers,Trust me on this: Do not be shy to take a
strap,
> > winch cable, or whatever. Just go until the wheels spin, then stop and
get
> > help! Don't break!!
> >
> > If there aren't enough parts to go around, we'll have a "Trail Parade"
to
> > celebrate The final removal!!
> > While doing this, let's keep our eyes on the trail for rubbish or fallen
> > pieces, and pick them up. maybe co - pilots or spotters can help out
with
> > this.
> >
> > I still need people to help load the trailer at the end of the trail.
There
> > are already parts there, so this potentially could begin as the "drag
out"
> > occurs. If nobody wants to miss the trail action, I'll understand, and
we
> > can do it when everything gets to the trailer. Keep in mind, I would
like
> > the front of the trailer to have all the heavy pieces, like Axles and
motor.
> >
> > Bring chain, heavy work gloves, tow rope, plenty of water, and
flashlights
> > in addition to whatever else you would pack.
> >
> > On the confirmed attendance list I have: (in no particular order)
> >
> > DougB (and Clan)
> > Dan Frazer
> > Keith Auble
> > Roger Tomas
> > Devon Whitney
> > Chris (cmandrick)
> > Todd Jaramillo
> > Mike Anderson
> > Ross Skinner
> > Greg Banfield Bronco owner :( Hey, someone's gotta crash the Jeep
party!
> > Linda Luik
> >
> > Hopefully you all will make it, and more are welcome.
> >
> > Bill Mish
> > Yldkat
> > 1955 Willys CJ3B
> > http://drive.to/yldkat55
>
>
>
>
>
12051 From: Len Sullivan <kermit@e...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 8:40pm
Subject: White Tanks cleanup breakfast?
Hi all
The kids and I are going to go to the Waffle House at 59th Ave and I-10 (the
one next to the Flying J truckstop) for breakfast before the White Tanks
cleanup party. Anyone who would like to join us is welcome. We'll prolly
be there sometime between 5 and 5:30.
happy motoring
Len
12052 From: Angela Kenning <jeepheads@h...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 1:48pm
Subject: for sale tomken gas tank skid plate
Last chance to get the Tomken gas tank skid plate off my 99tj selling cheap,
would like to get rid of it this weekend. Im moving and thats one less
piece of steel that i would like to move. Selling it for $90, please give a
call at 480-659-1645. Thanks John
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
12053 From: <flatfenderman@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 6:25pm
Subject: Condition of Box Canyon Area Trails
A buddy and I spent almost 14 hours checking out what the monsoons have done
to some of our favorite trails. We managed to see 7 trails and ran 3 of them
all the way through. Lower Woodpecker has changed the most, there are some
new holes and most of the old ones are deeper. In the narrower parts the
water line was 6 feet up the bank. Upper Woodpecker has seen only a little
water, although we only went in as far as the fire hole it hasn't changed
much. Lower and Upper Ajax have seen some flooding but not enough to
drastically change them. Axle Alley's first waterfall is now over 10 feet
high with 18 inches of water at the bottom of it, it looked very
intimidating. We went into Martinez Canyon as far as the Casitas,
surprisingly it has seen little water. I guess that shows how isolated Az.
thunderstorms can be. From there we ran down stream on Jaw Breaker, this
trail is awesome! We had intended to take all the easy lines, but that's like
asking me not to breath. While in a particularly twisted spot I cut sidewall
on the inside of one of my BFG's. As I tried to get it out of the hole
before it went flat I managed to scrape the drivers side of my Willys from
the front fender to the tailgate, ripping off the diamond plate corner, ouch.
My spare made it about 25 feet before I managed to rip it open too.
Wranglers spares wont fit so I had to call my big brother to bring me one
out. After we got going again we headed back to Florence through Box Canyon.
It has seen some running water too, but is in pretty good shape. It made for
a long hot day, We loved it. Discount tire here I come, warranty in hand!
12054 From: LindaL <minihummer@w...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 10:54pm
Subject: Re: Crown King Jim Myers Memorial Run Sunday
Sorry to hear that. Jim was a really neat guy. I met him several years ago
at the ASA4WDC Delegates Meeting. I hope the 4-wheeling is awesome in his
new home.
Linda
Daver wrote:
> On Sunday P4W will be running Crown King im memory of Jim Myers.
>
> Jim Myers recently passed away, but was very active for many years in AZ
> 4-wheeling.
>
> Any one active in the State Assoc. has probably met him at one time or
> another.
>
> We will be meeting at the White Horse between 8AM and 9AM.
>
> You can email me for more information, or call me or my wife (Roni) @
> 602-938-3685.
>
12055 From: LindaL <minihummer@w...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 11:27pm
Subject: Texas has a internet based 4x4 club
Thought y'all might be interested. I joined 'cause Steve is still living
in there.
http://www.delphi.com/tx4x4club/start/
Linda
12056 From: William Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 10:04pm
Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT LAWS
Beg to differ, considering :
1). The Site it was posted on had a copyright infringement statement.
2). The Photo was NOT taken in "public" view when you consider:
a). We were approx. 27 miles from "Public view".
b). The event was "invitation only".
Thanks for your concern, However.
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill White <jeepthg@a...>
To: <yldkat55@h...>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 9:02 PM
Subject: COPYRIGHT LAWS
> Mr Mish
> I hate to be the one to tell you this but if that picture was taken
> in "public view" then the site and person has violated no laws.
>
>
12057 From: LindaL <minihummer@w...>
Date: Sat Aug 26, 2000 7:16am
Subject: LU - [Fwd: bush might reject National Monuments]
FYI. The SC is up in arms over this report.
Linda
From: "Herr Klinton" ecosuck@h...
To: landuse@m...
Subject: bush might reject National Monuments
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 06:48:50 PDT
Sender: owner-landuse@m...
http://chblue.com/a/ap.elections.presidential/20000824/39a596ac.4986.2/ap.asp
__________________________________________________ ______________________
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12058 From: Jchio - Alloffroad.com <jchio@a...>
Date: Sat Aug 26, 2000 7:23am
Subject: Re: Re: COPYRIGHT LAWS
Mr White, You mean that the pictures taken to the Concorde while it was on fire just seconds before it crashed could be used by anyone? Just a thought...
But if we go straight to the United States Code, under the 17th Title, you will find:
Sec. 102. Subject matter of copyright: In general
(a) Copyright protection subsists, in accordance with this title, in original works of authorship fixed in any tangible medium of expression, now known or later developed, from which they can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device. Works of authorship include the following categories:...
(5) pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works;
(6) motion pictures and other audiovisual works;
And to understand it better:
Sec. 101. Definitions
''Pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works'' include
two-dimensional and three-dimensional works of fine, graphic, and
applied art, photographs, prints and art reproductions, maps,
globes, charts, diagrams, models, and technical drawings,
including architectural plans.
INFRINGEMENT ENFORCEMENT
When a photographer discovers a photo has been published without authorization, the photographer maybe able to secure an injunction, recover actual damages and lost profits...
If still after reading this, Mr White you "think" that photographs or pictures taken in public view give others the right of piblish or profit them, You should go to : http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ or any other US Code source and get informed.
Jesus Chio
www.alloffroad.com
Free webpages
http://signup.alloffroad.com
My Eb project
www.alloffroad.com/chio
12059 From: <flatfenderman@a...>
Date: Sat Aug 26, 2000 5:02am
Subject: Another greenie issue
Yesterday while on a well known trail I came across a tree that had a burlap
bag wrapped around the trunk covering an area that had some bark had been
scraped off of it. There was a note attached that said "The damage to this
native ash tree was documented in four wheel drive magazine, including a
caption with the names of the people responsible, and has been reported to
the Tucson BLM" The point here is that environmentalist are reading four
wheel drive magazines too, and they are looking for these types of issues so
they can be exploited. I would imagine that they are looking through our web
sites too. I will be careful not to post any photos that show inadvertent
damage or irresponsible four wheeling on my web site, and suggest everyone
consider the same.
12060 From: LindaL <minihummer@w...>
Date: Sat Aug 26, 2000 0:20pm
Subject: LU Re: Another greenie issue
The big problem is that there are people blazing (or opening) new trails in
washes, hill sides, etc. and then declaring them pre-existing mining roads,
ranchers access roads etc. You gotta be really careful when and what you declare
as a new trail. BLM, USFS, etc. all have websites that list the rules as to
what sort of travel is legitimate in what areas. This information isn't top
secret.
Secondly, organized environmentalists, government land managers, rangers,
sheriffs, etc. are not stupid. I think we tend to group them that way because
they don't always agree with us, but they are very aware of what the organized
(and disorganized) 4-wheelers are doing on public lands. What we can do as
4-wheelers is to stay above reproach in anything we do on the trail. We need to
be working closely with land managers when new trails are being considered. Most
land managers are more than happy to provide advice/support for this sort of
thing, and they appreciate being called on to participate in the trail
access/opening process. Martin Canyon (NW of Jerome) is a great example. The
trail in this canyon borders a wilderness area (it maight actually be in it) ,
but with a lot of hard work by the Great Western Trail Association, this canyon
was opened to motorized vehicle travel.
Gee --- this is being to sound like the speech I gave at the ASA4WDC Convention
a few years ago when I was the Conservation Chair!
I'd also like to thank Tammy Pike (AZ State Trust Land) for her support in the
White Tanks cleanup. This is the sort of partnership that we need to have with
all the different land agencies in Arizona.
I have to agree with you, publishing pictures that even look like damage is
being done to the trail on the internet just adds fuel to the greenies' fire!
Linda
flatfenderman@a... wrote:
> Yesterday while on a well known trail I came across a tree that had a burlap
> bag wrapped around the trunk covering an area that had some bark had been
> scraped off of it. There was a note attached that said "The damage to this
> native ash tree was documented in four wheel drive magazine, including a
> caption with the names of the people responsible, and has been reported to
> the Tucson BLM" The point here is that environmentalist are reading four
> wheel drive magazines too, and they are looking for these types of issues so
> they can be exploited. I would imagine that they are looking through our web
> sites too. I will be careful not to post any photos that show inadvertent
> damage or irresponsible four wheeling on my web site, and suggest everyone
> consider the same.
>
12061 From: Darren Richards <darren.richards@h...>
Date: Sat Aug 26, 2000 2:12pm
Subject: member sightings
I just took my wife out to lunch for her birthday at the Macaroni Grill in
Ahuatukee. I was excited to see three TJ's parked next to each other in the
parking lot with AZVJC stickers... Which reminds me, I need to slap a
couple of those on my Jeep...
darren
83 CJ7
12062 From: Chris <cmandrick@v...>
Date: Sat Aug 26, 2000 2:12pm
Subject: TR-- Terminator 8-25
Hats off to everyone who helped get the ZJ off of Terminator. I made an
appearance last night and found that through the efforts of everyone the
past three weeks it is possible to cut a vehicle into small pieces and drag
it out. My stock YJ was not up to Terminator, so Rick Norman and I did Raw
Deal after helping a bit on the clean up. Mike Chatfield showed me how
tippy things can get on White Line, and there was some great spotting by
Bill Mish to help a Jeep with clutch problems get out. Meeting people in
the club, cleaning up the trail, and drinking. What could be better? I
would like to have been there for the past three weeks, as this was a good
opportunity to see people earn the bragging right "Oh yeah? I did
Terminator, while dragging a ZJ behind me!" LoL Now I need some flex so I
can actually do this trail....
Chris
12038 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 8:37am
Subject: Re: Re: stop stop stop
I suspect those AZVJC stickers carry a little more weight now - at least
at Bill Luke. They're probably gonna cringe every time they see a Jeep
with a sticker on it pull into the service department. Ha ha ha! Keeps
them on their toes.
-Roger
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
12039 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 8:50am
Subject: Table Mesa Exit to Aqua Fria River Cleanup
Table Mesa Exit to Aqua Fria River Cleanup
Day: Saturday
Date: Oct 14, 2000
Time: 9:00AM
Meeting Place: West side of I-17 beyond the end of the pavement.
Organized by the People For USA and the Phoenix Four Wheelers in
cooperation with the Lake Pleasant Regional Recreation Area, the Arizona
State Land Department, and the Bureau of Land Management.
The dumpster will be provided by Diamond Disposal and the trash bags by
BLM.
If you have any questions, contact Harvey or Ron at the Canyon Service
Center in Black Canyon City (623) 374-9443.
--
or you can email me, and I'll get your questions answered.
daver@c...
12040 From: Chatfield, Mike <mchat@h...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 8:50am
Subject: FWD: Please read about Bill Luke
To the Internet Sales People: Originally you were CC'd only to let you know
what was happening.
Realize that in the public eye, Bill Luke is a single business, a team.
To the Service Manager: I am satisfied that Jeff Meade has been refunded
what was wrongfully
charged. Myself and others will likely consider your business in the
future; having contacted Jeff
to refund his money BEFORE the e-mails reached you is a positive. However,
a little talk with
your service department may be in order, something about the customer always
being right...
My point is, that if things had been done right in the first place, or
handled correctly in the 2nd,
none of this would have happened. With the Information Age now upon us,
consumer reports, like
this one, spread like wild fire.
Thank you for your time,
- Mike Chatfield
-------------------------------- Original MessageFollows
-----------------------------
Hey all --I sent the original post after I had a frustrating conversation
with
the service advisor on (he said) the service manager's behalf. I was under
the
impression that the service manager wasn't going to call and Bill Luke
wasn't
going to resolve this, so I sent the post explaining the service.So then I
get a
call from Service Manager, he hadn't seen or heard anything about my posting
but
I did mention my conversation with the service advisor. He refunded me the
$38
because he didn't want to lose a valued customer and said, although the
disconnected vacuum line might not have been a result of the original work,
he
would happily give me not only $38 but more to compensate. That's very
generous. I did, however, ask him to please only send me $38 as I felt that
was
acceptable. On his staff's defense, the sales manager spoke very highly of
his
staff and especially his sales advisor. To say the least, he was *very*
upset
when the internet sales department (not his department) was inundated with
about this issue after it was resolved. I explained to the sales manager
that I
posted back to the group about the $38 refund but there were still messages
being sent on the original issue.This may sound ungrateful, but I feel
really
bad about the treatment Bill Luke's staff has gotten as a result of this.
The
internet sales staff has nothing to do with this issue yet because they were
the
first email address someone was able to find that's the address all
subsequent
messages were going. I can't believe that. I do agree that if the sales
manager's email address would have been more easily found from their website
(if
at all) the messages would have been sent to the appropriate address in the
first place. I appreciate and am glad to see the level of support this
group
gives.All I can say is please let it drop. The service manager took care of
business professionally and I thank him for that. When I get the check in
the
mail he can be rest assured I will spend all of the money on parts from Bill
Luke's parts department.Sincerely,Jeff BTW, is it too early for a beer?
:)
12041 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 8:55am
Subject: Re: TR ZJ Terminator Friday 8/25/00 5:00- 7:00pm
It looks like I will be arriving at the parking lot area on Table Mesa
Road about 7:00pm. Anyone that wants to go in with me around that time
shoot me an email so I know to wait for you.
-Roger
William Mish wrote:
>
> Meeting place: Table Mesa "Parking lot". See attachment for rough
> directions. Expect the last escort to the trail to leave at around 7:00pm,
> So be there before then. If you get there before 7:00, and no one's there,
> wait a bit, someone will be along shortly.If you won't be there before
> 7:00pm, running late or whatever, and you don't know where you are going,
> Get on Channel 4 of your CB and make your intent known.
>
> Those of you that know where the trail is, please check the "Parking Lot"
> for rigs that want to help, and need an escort in!
>
> I'm going to be up there at 5:00pm, I will take the trailer and truck back
> to the end of the Terminator trail, providing I have at least one Jeep with
> me, and will meet you all on the trail. As people arrive, we can start
> hauling out the pieces. With 8 Jeeps in, I think we could pair up on the
> haul out. Preferably one unloaded vehicle in front with one towing a piece
> behind, that way the one up front can spot, be a winch anchor or lend a pull
> strap if needed. Haulers,Trust me on this: Do not be shy to take a strap,
> winch cable, or whatever. Just go until the wheels spin, then stop and get
> help! Don't break!!
>
> If there aren't enough parts to go around, we'll have a "Trail Parade" to
> celebrate The final removal!!
> While doing this, let's keep our eyes on the trail for rubbish or fallen
> pieces, and pick them up. maybe co - pilots or spotters can help out with
> this.
>
> I still need people to help load the trailer at the end of the trail. There
> are already parts there, so this potentially could begin as the "drag out"
> occurs. If nobody wants to miss the trail action, I'll understand, and we
> can do it when everything gets to the trailer. Keep in mind, I would like
> the front of the trailer to have all the heavy pieces, like Axles and motor.
>
> Bring chain, heavy work gloves, tow rope, plenty of water, and flashlights
> in addition to whatever else you would pack.
>
> On the confirmed attendance list I have: (in no particular order)
>
> DougB (and Clan)
> Dan Frazer
> Keith Auble
> Roger Tomas
> Devon Whitney
> Chris (cmandrick)
> Todd Jaramillo
> Mike Anderson
> Ross Skinner
> Greg Banfield Bronco owner :( Hey, someone's gotta crash the Jeep party!
> Linda Luik
>
> Hopefully you all will make it, and more are welcome.
>
> Bill Mish
> Yldkat
> 1955 Willys CJ3B
> http://drive.to/yldkat55
12042 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 9:01am
Subject: Re: Table Mesa Exit to Aqua Fria River Cleanup
I asked this before but got no response. Is the cleanup to include
"the dump" where the shooters set up trash for targets and then just
leave it?
If so, I suggest that someone heads over to Ben Avery Shooting Range
to see about getting gun clubs and individual gun owners to help out
too. Maybe fliers could be put up in the gun shops around the valley
too. I am not a gun owner myself but I can invite the gun club here
at the company I work for.
-Roger
Daver wrote:
>
> Table Mesa Exit to Aqua Fria River Cleanup
>
> Day: Saturday
> Date: Oct 14, 2000
> Time: 9:00AM
> Meeting Place: West side of I-17 beyond the end of the pavement.
>
> Organized by the People For USA and the Phoenix Four Wheelers in
> cooperation with the Lake Pleasant Regional Recreation Area, the Arizona
> State Land Department, and the Bureau of Land Management.
>
> The dumpster will be provided by Diamond Disposal and the trash bags by
> BLM.
>
> If you have any questions, contact Harvey or Ron at the Canyon Service
> Center in Black Canyon City (623) 374-9443.
12043 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 9:15am
Subject: Re: Table Mesa Exit to Aqua Fria River Cleanup
Per Ron clean up is going to be focused on the sides of the road, i.e.
the _most_ noticeable area. The clean up _will_ certainly include the
area you mention providing there is enough turnout. I have forwarded
your suggestion about gun clubs.
Roger Tomas wrote:
>
> I asked this before but got no response. Is the cleanup to include
> "the dump" where the shooters set up trash for targets and then just
> leave it?
>
> If so, I suggest that someone heads over to Ben Avery Shooting Range
> to see about getting gun clubs and individual gun owners to help out
> too. Maybe fliers could be put up in the gun shops around the valley
> too. I am not a gun owner myself but I can invite the gun club here
> at the company I work for.
>
> -Roger
>
> Daver wrote:
> >
> > Table Mesa Exit to Aqua Fria River Cleanup
> >
> > Day: Saturday
> > Date: Oct 14, 2000
> > Time: 9:00AM
> > Meeting Place: West side of I-17 beyond the end of the pavement.
> >
> > Organized by the People For USA and the Phoenix Four Wheelers in
> > cooperation with the Lake Pleasant Regional Recreation Area, the Arizona
> > State Land Department, and the Bureau of Land Management.
> >
> > The dumpster will be provided by Diamond Disposal and the trash bags by
> > BLM.
> >
> > If you have any questions, contact Harvey or Ron at the Canyon Service
> > Center in Black Canyon City (623) 374-9443.
12044 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 1:39pm
Subject: Crown King Jim Myers Memorial Run Sunday
On Sunday P4W will be running Crown King im memory of Jim Myers.
Jim Myers recently passed away, but was very active for many years in AZ
4-wheeling.
Any one active in the State Assoc. has probably met him at one time or
another.
We will be meeting at the White Horse between 8AM and 9AM.
You can email me for more information, or call me or my wife (Roni) @
602-938-3685.
12045 From: <grafik_lar@y...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 4:09pm
Subject: Message sent to me from Mr. Ed
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 1:02 PM
Subject: [Fwd: Urgent - White Tanks Sat]
: See Tammy Pike's message below!
:
: No tires will be put in dumpsters this time!
: Get the word out if you or someone you know
: is going to attend this clean-up!
:
: Thanks! ~Ziggy
:
: -------- Original Message --------
: Subject: Urgent - White Tanks Sat
: Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:13:49 -0700
: From: "Tamarya Pike" <TPike@l...>
: To: <ziggy@c...>
:
: Ziggy,
:
: Hello. I am on the run and need you to help if you can.
:
: The dumpster people just called and they need to make sure NO,
absolutely
none,
: nada, zero, zilch...tires are put in the dumpster. They were
adamant
about it.
: Will you please remind everyone that is going to get the word out
that
tires
: should be stacked to one side and NOT put in the dumpster.
:
: Thanx
: Tammy
:
12046 From: Tom Quinn <tom@q...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 4:16pm
Subject: Terminator tonight
I'm planning to leave Gilbert around 5:00 to head up to Table Mesa
Road. If there's anyone wanting to tag along or follow, send me an e-
mail asap. I was going to swing by Costco (Southern/Country Club)
for gas, we could meet there maybe.
Tom
12047 From: Linda Luik <linda.luik@m...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 4:26pm
Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: Urgent - White Tanks Sat]]
FYI
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:53:07 MST
From: Ziggy ziggy@c...
Subject: [Fwd: Urgent - White Tanks Sat]
To: ASA4WDC LIST asa4wdc@a... , Bob Carney AzRecTravelclub@h... , Brad Jones bradjones@u... , "CBoetel@a..." CBoetel@a... , "charlie.h.bab****@i..." charlie.h.bab****@i... , Doug Schultz saguaro6@h... , Ed Melendy emelendy@u... , "kipboetel@h..." kipboetel@h... , Kurt Loga logaks@h... , "Linda Luik (p14175)" p14175@e... , "lizthemechanic@e..." lizthemechanic@e... , "mary_boetel@n..." mary_boetel@n... , Ray_Jenkins-RW9340@email, "SJBolander@a..." SJBolander@a...
See Tammy Pike's message below!
No tires will be put in dumpsters this time!
Get the word out if you or someone you know
is going to attend this clean-up!
Thanks! ~Ziggy
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Urgent - White Tanks Sat
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:13:49 -0700
From: "Tamarya Pike" <TPike@lnd.state.az.us>
To: <ziggy@cybertrails.com>
Ziggy,
Hello. I am on the run and need you to help if you can.
The dumpster people just called and they need to make sure NO, absolutely none,
nada, zero, zilch...tires are put in the dumpster. They were adamant about it.
Will you please remind everyone that is going to get the word out that tires
should be stacked to one side and NOT put in the dumpster.
Thanx
Tammy
Attachment: vcard [not shown]
12048 From: Linda Luik <linda.luik@m...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 4:29pm
Subject: Re: Re: Copyright violation
Wow! I'll bet that that picture I took of Jess' Waagoneer on the Miner's
Revenge Trail has made it to a few web pages. Oh well.... I consider any
pctures I post on Photopoint as public. I really don't care so as long
they are used against 4-wheeling.
Linda
Attachment: vcard [not shown]
12049 From: Linda Luik <linda.luik@m...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 4:31pm
Subject: Re: Re: Copyright violation
Oops! .....so as long as they are NOT used against 4-wheeling.
These Dell keyboards are lousy!
Linda
"Linda Luik (p14175)" wrote:
>
> Wow! I'll bet that that picture I took of Jess' Waagoneer on the Miner's
> Revenge Trail has made it to a few web pages. Oh well.... I consider any
> pctures I post on Photopoint as public. I really don't care so as long
> they are used against 4-wheeling.
>
> Linda
> -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates
> of 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Ongoing APR* and no annual fee!
> Apply NOW!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/7872/11/_/1966/_/967245700/
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
Attachment: vcard [not shown]
12050 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 5:40pm
Subject: Re: TR ZJ Terminator Friday 8/25/00 5:00- 7:00pm
BTW I just read in the paper that I-17 south bound will be closed at 9pm
tonite (I think at Betheny Home), so alternates will be needed for the trip
back.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Tomas" <tomasr@a...>
To: "William Mish" <yldkat55@h...>
Cc: "Motoman" <emotoman@e...>; "AZ_VJC" <AZ_VJC@egroups.com>;
"Chris" <cmandrick@v...>; "Mike Anderson" <msa12171@a...>;
"crusari" <crusari@p...>; "DougB" <azjeep@h...>; "Dan Frazer"
<notaborg@h...>; "Todd Jaramillo" <todd.jaramillo@a...>; "Devon
Whitney" <a74cj6@a...>; <linda.luik@M...>
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] TR ZJ Terminator Friday 8/25/00 5:00- 7:00pm
> It looks like I will be arriving at the parking lot area on Table Mesa
> Road about 7:00pm. Anyone that wants to go in with me around that time
> shoot me an email so I know to wait for you.
>
> -Roger
>
> William Mish wrote:
> >
> > Meeting place: Table Mesa "Parking lot". See attachment for rough
> > directions. Expect the last escort to the trail to leave at around
7:00pm,
> > So be there before then. If you get there before 7:00, and no one's
there,
> > wait a bit, someone will be along shortly.If you won't be there before
> > 7:00pm, running late or whatever, and you don't know where you are
going,
> > Get on Channel 4 of your CB and make your intent known.
> >
> > Those of you that know where the trail is, please check the "Parking
Lot"
> > for rigs that want to help, and need an escort in!
> >
> > I'm going to be up there at 5:00pm, I will take the trailer and truck
back
> > to the end of the Terminator trail, providing I have at least one Jeep
with
> > me, and will meet you all on the trail. As people arrive, we can start
> > hauling out the pieces. With 8 Jeeps in, I think we could pair up on the
> > haul out. Preferably one unloaded vehicle in front with one towing a
piece
> > behind, that way the one up front can spot, be a winch anchor or lend a
pull
> > strap if needed. Haulers,Trust me on this: Do not be shy to take a
strap,
> > winch cable, or whatever. Just go until the wheels spin, then stop and
get
> > help! Don't break!!
> >
> > If there aren't enough parts to go around, we'll have a "Trail Parade"
to
> > celebrate The final removal!!
> > While doing this, let's keep our eyes on the trail for rubbish or fallen
> > pieces, and pick them up. maybe co - pilots or spotters can help out
with
> > this.
> >
> > I still need people to help load the trailer at the end of the trail.
There
> > are already parts there, so this potentially could begin as the "drag
out"
> > occurs. If nobody wants to miss the trail action, I'll understand, and
we
> > can do it when everything gets to the trailer. Keep in mind, I would
like
> > the front of the trailer to have all the heavy pieces, like Axles and
motor.
> >
> > Bring chain, heavy work gloves, tow rope, plenty of water, and
flashlights
> > in addition to whatever else you would pack.
> >
> > On the confirmed attendance list I have: (in no particular order)
> >
> > DougB (and Clan)
> > Dan Frazer
> > Keith Auble
> > Roger Tomas
> > Devon Whitney
> > Chris (cmandrick)
> > Todd Jaramillo
> > Mike Anderson
> > Ross Skinner
> > Greg Banfield Bronco owner :( Hey, someone's gotta crash the Jeep
party!
> > Linda Luik
> >
> > Hopefully you all will make it, and more are welcome.
> >
> > Bill Mish
> > Yldkat
> > 1955 Willys CJ3B
> > http://drive.to/yldkat55
>
>
>
>
>
12051 From: Len Sullivan <kermit@e...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 8:40pm
Subject: White Tanks cleanup breakfast?
Hi all
The kids and I are going to go to the Waffle House at 59th Ave and I-10 (the
one next to the Flying J truckstop) for breakfast before the White Tanks
cleanup party. Anyone who would like to join us is welcome. We'll prolly
be there sometime between 5 and 5:30.
happy motoring
Len
12052 From: Angela Kenning <jeepheads@h...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 1:48pm
Subject: for sale tomken gas tank skid plate
Last chance to get the Tomken gas tank skid plate off my 99tj selling cheap,
would like to get rid of it this weekend. Im moving and thats one less
piece of steel that i would like to move. Selling it for $90, please give a
call at 480-659-1645. Thanks John
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
12053 From: <flatfenderman@a...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 6:25pm
Subject: Condition of Box Canyon Area Trails
A buddy and I spent almost 14 hours checking out what the monsoons have done
to some of our favorite trails. We managed to see 7 trails and ran 3 of them
all the way through. Lower Woodpecker has changed the most, there are some
new holes and most of the old ones are deeper. In the narrower parts the
water line was 6 feet up the bank. Upper Woodpecker has seen only a little
water, although we only went in as far as the fire hole it hasn't changed
much. Lower and Upper Ajax have seen some flooding but not enough to
drastically change them. Axle Alley's first waterfall is now over 10 feet
high with 18 inches of water at the bottom of it, it looked very
intimidating. We went into Martinez Canyon as far as the Casitas,
surprisingly it has seen little water. I guess that shows how isolated Az.
thunderstorms can be. From there we ran down stream on Jaw Breaker, this
trail is awesome! We had intended to take all the easy lines, but that's like
asking me not to breath. While in a particularly twisted spot I cut sidewall
on the inside of one of my BFG's. As I tried to get it out of the hole
before it went flat I managed to scrape the drivers side of my Willys from
the front fender to the tailgate, ripping off the diamond plate corner, ouch.
My spare made it about 25 feet before I managed to rip it open too.
Wranglers spares wont fit so I had to call my big brother to bring me one
out. After we got going again we headed back to Florence through Box Canyon.
It has seen some running water too, but is in pretty good shape. It made for
a long hot day, We loved it. Discount tire here I come, warranty in hand!
12054 From: LindaL <minihummer@w...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 10:54pm
Subject: Re: Crown King Jim Myers Memorial Run Sunday
Sorry to hear that. Jim was a really neat guy. I met him several years ago
at the ASA4WDC Delegates Meeting. I hope the 4-wheeling is awesome in his
new home.
Linda
Daver wrote:
> On Sunday P4W will be running Crown King im memory of Jim Myers.
>
> Jim Myers recently passed away, but was very active for many years in AZ
> 4-wheeling.
>
> Any one active in the State Assoc. has probably met him at one time or
> another.
>
> We will be meeting at the White Horse between 8AM and 9AM.
>
> You can email me for more information, or call me or my wife (Roni) @
> 602-938-3685.
>
12055 From: LindaL <minihummer@w...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 11:27pm
Subject: Texas has a internet based 4x4 club
Thought y'all might be interested. I joined 'cause Steve is still living
in there.
http://www.delphi.com/tx4x4club/start/
Linda
12056 From: William Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 10:04pm
Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT LAWS
Beg to differ, considering :
1). The Site it was posted on had a copyright infringement statement.
2). The Photo was NOT taken in "public" view when you consider:
a). We were approx. 27 miles from "Public view".
b). The event was "invitation only".
Thanks for your concern, However.
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill White <jeepthg@a...>
To: <yldkat55@h...>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 9:02 PM
Subject: COPYRIGHT LAWS
> Mr Mish
> I hate to be the one to tell you this but if that picture was taken
> in "public view" then the site and person has violated no laws.
>
>
12057 From: LindaL <minihummer@w...>
Date: Sat Aug 26, 2000 7:16am
Subject: LU - [Fwd: bush might reject National Monuments]
FYI. The SC is up in arms over this report.
Linda
From: "Herr Klinton" ecosuck@h...
To: landuse@m...
Subject: bush might reject National Monuments
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 06:48:50 PDT
Sender: owner-landuse@m...
http://chblue.com/a/ap.elections.presidential/20000824/39a596ac.4986.2/ap.asp
__________________________________________________ ______________________
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This mailing list is proudly sponsored by Off-Road.com, Inc.
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12058 From: Jchio - Alloffroad.com <jchio@a...>
Date: Sat Aug 26, 2000 7:23am
Subject: Re: Re: COPYRIGHT LAWS
Mr White, You mean that the pictures taken to the Concorde while it was on fire just seconds before it crashed could be used by anyone? Just a thought...
But if we go straight to the United States Code, under the 17th Title, you will find:
Sec. 102. Subject matter of copyright: In general
(a) Copyright protection subsists, in accordance with this title, in original works of authorship fixed in any tangible medium of expression, now known or later developed, from which they can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device. Works of authorship include the following categories:...
(5) pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works;
(6) motion pictures and other audiovisual works;
And to understand it better:
Sec. 101. Definitions
''Pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works'' include
two-dimensional and three-dimensional works of fine, graphic, and
applied art, photographs, prints and art reproductions, maps,
globes, charts, diagrams, models, and technical drawings,
including architectural plans.
INFRINGEMENT ENFORCEMENT
When a photographer discovers a photo has been published without authorization, the photographer maybe able to secure an injunction, recover actual damages and lost profits...
If still after reading this, Mr White you "think" that photographs or pictures taken in public view give others the right of piblish or profit them, You should go to : http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ or any other US Code source and get informed.
Jesus Chio
www.alloffroad.com
Free webpages
http://signup.alloffroad.com
My Eb project
www.alloffroad.com/chio
12059 From: <flatfenderman@a...>
Date: Sat Aug 26, 2000 5:02am
Subject: Another greenie issue
Yesterday while on a well known trail I came across a tree that had a burlap
bag wrapped around the trunk covering an area that had some bark had been
scraped off of it. There was a note attached that said "The damage to this
native ash tree was documented in four wheel drive magazine, including a
caption with the names of the people responsible, and has been reported to
the Tucson BLM" The point here is that environmentalist are reading four
wheel drive magazines too, and they are looking for these types of issues so
they can be exploited. I would imagine that they are looking through our web
sites too. I will be careful not to post any photos that show inadvertent
damage or irresponsible four wheeling on my web site, and suggest everyone
consider the same.
12060 From: LindaL <minihummer@w...>
Date: Sat Aug 26, 2000 0:20pm
Subject: LU Re: Another greenie issue
The big problem is that there are people blazing (or opening) new trails in
washes, hill sides, etc. and then declaring them pre-existing mining roads,
ranchers access roads etc. You gotta be really careful when and what you declare
as a new trail. BLM, USFS, etc. all have websites that list the rules as to
what sort of travel is legitimate in what areas. This information isn't top
secret.
Secondly, organized environmentalists, government land managers, rangers,
sheriffs, etc. are not stupid. I think we tend to group them that way because
they don't always agree with us, but they are very aware of what the organized
(and disorganized) 4-wheelers are doing on public lands. What we can do as
4-wheelers is to stay above reproach in anything we do on the trail. We need to
be working closely with land managers when new trails are being considered. Most
land managers are more than happy to provide advice/support for this sort of
thing, and they appreciate being called on to participate in the trail
access/opening process. Martin Canyon (NW of Jerome) is a great example. The
trail in this canyon borders a wilderness area (it maight actually be in it) ,
but with a lot of hard work by the Great Western Trail Association, this canyon
was opened to motorized vehicle travel.
Gee --- this is being to sound like the speech I gave at the ASA4WDC Convention
a few years ago when I was the Conservation Chair!
I'd also like to thank Tammy Pike (AZ State Trust Land) for her support in the
White Tanks cleanup. This is the sort of partnership that we need to have with
all the different land agencies in Arizona.
I have to agree with you, publishing pictures that even look like damage is
being done to the trail on the internet just adds fuel to the greenies' fire!
Linda
flatfenderman@a... wrote:
> Yesterday while on a well known trail I came across a tree that had a burlap
> bag wrapped around the trunk covering an area that had some bark had been
> scraped off of it. There was a note attached that said "The damage to this
> native ash tree was documented in four wheel drive magazine, including a
> caption with the names of the people responsible, and has been reported to
> the Tucson BLM" The point here is that environmentalist are reading four
> wheel drive magazines too, and they are looking for these types of issues so
> they can be exploited. I would imagine that they are looking through our web
> sites too. I will be careful not to post any photos that show inadvertent
> damage or irresponsible four wheeling on my web site, and suggest everyone
> consider the same.
>
12061 From: Darren Richards <darren.richards@h...>
Date: Sat Aug 26, 2000 2:12pm
Subject: member sightings
I just took my wife out to lunch for her birthday at the Macaroni Grill in
Ahuatukee. I was excited to see three TJ's parked next to each other in the
parking lot with AZVJC stickers... Which reminds me, I need to slap a
couple of those on my Jeep...
darren
83 CJ7
12062 From: Chris <cmandrick@v...>
Date: Sat Aug 26, 2000 2:12pm
Subject: TR-- Terminator 8-25
Hats off to everyone who helped get the ZJ off of Terminator. I made an
appearance last night and found that through the efforts of everyone the
past three weeks it is possible to cut a vehicle into small pieces and drag
it out. My stock YJ was not up to Terminator, so Rick Norman and I did Raw
Deal after helping a bit on the clean up. Mike Chatfield showed me how
tippy things can get on White Line, and there was some great spotting by
Bill Mish to help a Jeep with clutch problems get out. Meeting people in
the club, cleaning up the trail, and drinking. What could be better? I
would like to have been there for the past three weeks, as this was a good
opportunity to see people earn the bragging right "Oh yeah? I did
Terminator, while dragging a ZJ behind me!" LoL Now I need some flex so I
can actually do this trail....
Chris