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12013 From: Mike & Anita Chatfield <mchat@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 6:07pm
Subject: Fwd: Be warned of Bill Luke Chrysler service
I don't know when it happened but it seems to me that most larger
businesses have stopped caring about the customer. Many times I've
been the one getting ripped off and wished there was something more I
could do than just say "well you've lost one customer for good."
because they really don't seem to care.
So when I see an opportunity to help a fellow jeeper (did our
messages help get through to the service manager? who knows) stand up
for his consumer rights, I'm there.
I think Bill Luke's Service department has seen the light, I imagine
that the Service Advisor has gotten a talking to from the Service
Manager today.
--- In az_vjc@egroups.com, "Jeff Meade" <jeffm@d...> wrote:
> Hey all --
>
> Please remember that I only posted the original information for the
> group to see what I went through in this instance. I didn't post
> that information expecting to generate a barrage of messages to the
> service department. If the service manager had talked to me
earlier,
> I would have been much happer. All in all, the service manager was
a
> very nice man and I hope he's able to now see how important good
> customer service is to the jeeping community. Just don't go
> overboard here ...
> Jeff
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
12014 From: Scott Kruize <osmtj@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 6:21pm
Subject: Re: Dealers
Moore sucks too.
Scott Kruize
Roger Tomas wrote:
There's Moore out on 83rd Ave and Bell Rd but I wouldn't recommend them.
When I took my YJ in for the fuel sending unit gaskt recall, they refused
to do the work because I had a shallow dent in my gas tank skid plate.
They said it would be too hard to re-seat the fuel pump in the tank.
I then took my Jeep to Pitre on east Bell Rd and they did it without
saying a word. I have taken my Jeep to Pitre for other things and they
have been ok. But they are now Lou Grubb Jeep and I don't know if
anything has changed. They did have a some true Jeepers for mechanics.
-Roger
> Nnote wrote:
>
> So if Bill Lukes, Biddaulphs and I've scratched Earnhardt's off the list who
> is left? It's funny though that the parts department is always good. Maybe
> it's because we usually know EXACTLY what we need, it's not up to them?!
> Nick
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
12015 From: William Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 6:40pm
Subject: Re: Fwd: Be warned of Bill Luke Chrysler service
Yes, Actually. He informed us all that the Service Manager cut him a check about 15-20 minutes ago, and if you'll notice, you were just cc'ed on this message for info only. Thank You for responding, and I'm sure we all will consider your Company for business.
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Luke C-P-J
To: William Mish
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 5:41 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Fwd: Be warned of Bill Luke Chrysler service
You sent this message to the wrong department. Click on www.billluke.com and find Service Department. By the way, did you know that Mr. Chatfield's $38 was refunded by our service department and the check is actually in the mail as this is written?
-----Original Message-----
From: William Mish [mailto:yldkat55@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 17:41
To: cjservice@billluke.com; Chatfield, Mike
Cc: cpj@billluke.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Fwd: Be warned of Bill Luke Chrysler service
I would have to agree with Mr. Chatfield on this. I know I will not come to you to be treated unfairly.
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
----- Original Message -----
From: Chatfield, Mike
To: 'cjservice@billluke.com'
Cc: 'cpj@billluke.com'
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 12:09 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Fwd: Be warned of Bill Luke Chrysler service
Gentlemen,
Rest assured, I am one of the "300 closest jeeping friends."
mentioned in the letter below.
Hearing about service like this makes my decisions even easier
when it comes to shopping for a new or used car or for a service
department to take my car to if it needs repairs.
I can now scratch Bill Luke off of my goto list.
I hope the $38 diagnostic fee you charged to find a problem your
service department created while "fixing" this jeep was worth it.
Since I couldn't find an e-mail address for the General Manager online,
I CC'ed the Internet Sales guys to let them know that their service
manager is making their job to sell cars more difficult.
- Mike Chatfield
---------------------- Original Text -------------------------
I just wanted to share my 1st and only experience with Bill Luke
Chrysler (Camelback and I-17) with 300 of my closest jeeping friends.
I had Bill Luke Chrysler fix a cooling problem on my XJ (they were at
the right place at the right time). I picked up the vehicle when it
was done (last Thursday) and on the drive home I noticed right away
that the air conditioning vents weren't working at all. As it was
rush hour traffic and I've got a friend with me I drove home hoping
the problem would fix itself. On Monday I called the dealership and
explained the problem and and that I was sure it was a result of the
original work. Tuesday I dropped off the XJ and waited for it to get
fixed. I was charged a diagnostic fee of $38 to determine that a
vacuum line was disconnected under the bumper. I explained to the
Service Advisor that that was a direct result of the original work
since the vacuum line *had* to be disconnected to remove the radiator
(they did remove the radiator).
On a side note, I did originally tell the Service Advisor that I
thought the new problem was a result of the airbag sensor recall
because they had to remove part of the dash to relocate the sensor.
I tried to explain to him that this new problem was a result of the
original work. The Service Advisor said he based his troubleshooting
(diagnosis of the vacuum system) on that fact and it had nothing to
do with the airbag recall. Agreed. BTW, diagnosis of the vacuum
system did lead to finding disconnected vacuum line under the bumper.
So I got charged for diagnosing a problem that was created by
unfinished original work. Yesterday I got a call from Bill Luke for
a customer service survey. I explained (nicely) that I was unjustly
charged for the diagnostic fee and I will never spend another penny
at Bill Luke either through repairs of my 3 Jeep vehicles or purchase
a vehicle from them unless I'm reimbursed the diagnostic fee. I also
explained that I wasn't expecting to get reimbursed, but if I did, I
would most likely use their services again.
I had a phone conversation with the Service Advisor today (he seemed
bitter that I gave him a bad survey) and he explained there was
nothing they would do (I'm sure this situation does happen
frequently). I again explained that I felt I was unjustly charged
and they would lose a customer over a $38 charge (I spent $560 on the
first service charge). He seemed fine with that. After that phone
conversation, I decided I would tell 300 of my closest AZ jeep
friends about my Bill Luke experience. The Service Manager has my
number, although I doubt I'll hear from him/her. It does surprise me
that a company would lose a customer over a charge this small - they
have a good chance of recouping that money within the next visit.
Definitely not now.
All in all, I am frustrated that I can't find a decent dealership to
do work on my vehicle. Just thought I'd pass along my experience.
Thanks for letting me rant a little. Maybe I'm way off base here,
but I don't think quality of service and customer service like this
should be tolerated.
Mike Chatfield
12016 From: <lwt002@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 2:27pm
Subject: Re: Unhappy customer/Con-ferr
I ordered the rack from 4 wheel parts wholesalers
www.4wheelparts.com
Conferr is
www.conferr.com
Thanks for the support !!
Larry
12017 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 7:15pm
Subject: RE: stop stop stop
Well, that is good to hear. Maybe, just maybe, the dealership learned a
lesson (is that too much to hope for?). Maybe they realize that a portion
of the Jeep owners in the valley are a tight knit community and that word of
mouth travels very fast (as seen today!).
Granted, I am sure they service 50 grocery getters for every Jeep that sees
good off-road use. It appears that the guy got a wake up call and that is
what counts. If one department gets ticked off at another department
because of their screw-up....well, maybe a little bit of peer pressure is a
good thing for them! If it comes up at tomorrow's manager meeting, that
will be even better. Jeff, you may have made a BIG difference for a lot of
Jeepers, and that is something to be proud of! (now hurry up and cash that
check before they get really ticked at you and issue a stop payment order
against it!) LOL!
Glad you got your check, Jeff!
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Meade [mailto:jeffm@d...]
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 6:04 PM
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] stop stop stop
Ok, got a call from the Service Manager again asking why his internet
sales staff was getting bombarded with hate mail. Please read my
follow up posts before you go calling or emailing them telling them
off.
Regards,
Jeff
12018 From: William Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 8:32pm
Subject: Re: stop stop stop
AWW.... C'mon Stu, you think we made a difference?
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
I for one think it's great the Service Manager called Jeff back. For what it's worth, anyone posts a complaint on this group, You really need to be prepared for us to respond in your favor. As far as "Hate mail" goes, every message I read had a "business" tone to it, so I presume that would be the Sales Dept. or Service manager's Terminology. Be assured, we shouldn't respond in a hateful manner, always try to keep it professional.
If you don't want us to say anything, just don't tell us.
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
----- Original Message -----
From: Stu Olson
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 7:15 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] stop stop stop
Well, that is good to hear. Maybe, just maybe, the dealership learned a
lesson (is that too much to hope for?). Maybe they realize that a portion
of the Jeep owners in the valley are a tight knit community and that word of
mouth travels very fast (as seen today!).
Granted, I am sure they service 50 grocery getters for every Jeep that sees
good off-road use. It appears that the guy got a wake up call and that is
what counts. If one department gets ticked off at another department
because of their screw-up....well, maybe a little bit of peer pressure is a
good thing for them! If it comes up at tomorrow's manager meeting, that
will be even better. Jeff, you may have made a BIG difference for a lot of
Jeepers, and that is something to be proud of! (now hurry up and cash that
check before they get really ticked at you and issue a stop payment order
against it!) LOL!
Glad you got your check, Jeff!
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Meade [mailto:jeffm@desertwave.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 6:04 PM
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] stop stop stop
Ok, got a call from the Service Manager again asking why his internet
sales staff was getting bombarded with hate mail. Please read my
follow up posts before you go calling or emailing them telling them
off.
Regards,
Jeff
12019 From: LindaL <minihummer@w...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 8:22pm
Subject: Re: stop stop stop
I think it was a pretty good exercise. The service department at Bill Luke
Jeep found out what happens when they slight a customer. The basic rule in
business is that for every unhappy customer, you lose 100 potential
customers. No business can afford to do that. I am happy to hear that they
took care of your problem. I guess if any AZVJCers decide to use Bill Luke
for service they ought to take time to remind them the internet is a
wonderful means of communication.
Linda
Jeff Meade wrote:
> Ok, got a call from the Service Manager again asking why his internet
> sales staff was getting bombarded with hate mail. Please read my
> follow up posts before you go calling or emailing them telling them
> off.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff
>
12020 From: William Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 8:56pm
Subject: Copyright violation
I has come to my attention that someone in this group has posted a picture
of my Jeep on his site without my permission or the permission of the
originating site. This person is in violation of copyright laws, and had
better get it off his site or further action will be taken. I will pursue
all avenues open to me to protect my rights.
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
12021 From: Jeff Meade <jeffm@d...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 9:01pm
Subject: Re: stop stop stop
jeepers,
To say the least, the Service Manager couldn't figure out how this
information travelled so fast. I had to explain to him that the
majority of the responses he saw were due to my original post (one
response was just over an hour from my original post), which I am
still glad I sent to everyone here. No slander, no false info, just
facts about the service. When I got the call from him this
afternoon, he wanted to know 1) that I was satisfied (now, yes), 2)
the group was informed that I was satisfied (yes), and 3) when the
Internet Sales department would stop getting bombarded with email
(time will tell).
I appreciate the support that the club served, although for me this
was a matter of principle not money directly. I assume everyone saw
that from my original post. Sometimes companies can't understand
that.
Happy trails,
Jeff
--- In az_vjc@egroups.com, "William Mish" <yldkat55@h...> wrote:
> AWW.... C'mon Stu, you think we made a difference?
> HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
> I for one think it's great the Service Manager called Jeff back.
For what it's worth, anyone posts a complaint on this group, You
really need to be prepared for us to respond in your favor. As far
as "Hate mail" goes, every message I read had a "business" tone to
it, so I presume that would be the Sales Dept. or Service manager's
Terminology. Be assured, we shouldn't respond in a hateful manner,
always try to keep it professional.
> If you don't want us to say anything, just don't tell us.
>
> Bill Mish
> Yldkat
> 1955 Willys CJ3B
12022 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 9:25pm
Subject: Re: Re: stop stop stop
Personally, I think it's great that they did get some good responses from
the group. It's one of the benefits of memberships...Helps to justify those
hefty AzVJC dues :o).
Now...Jeff...when do we get our share of the $38 ?????
Glad it all worked out. Sometimes tactfully flexing a little muscle can be
helpful. Long live the Internet!
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Meade" <jeffm@d...>
To: <az_vjc@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 9:01 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: stop stop stop
> jeepers,
>
> To say the least, the Service Manager couldn't figure out how this
> information travelled so fast. I had to explain to him that the
> majority of the responses he saw were due to my original post (one
> response was just over an hour from my original post), which I am
> still glad I sent to everyone here. No slander, no false info, just
> facts about the service. When I got the call from him this
> afternoon, he wanted to know 1) that I was satisfied (now, yes), 2)
> the group was informed that I was satisfied (yes), and 3) when the
> Internet Sales department would stop getting bombarded with email
> (time will tell).
>
> I appreciate the support that the club served, although for me this
> was a matter of principle not money directly. I assume everyone saw
> that from my original post. Sometimes companies can't understand
> that.
>
> Happy trails,
> Jeff
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@egroups.com, "William Mish" <yldkat55@h...> wrote:
> > AWW.... C'mon Stu, you think we made a difference?
> > HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
> > I for one think it's great the Service Manager called Jeff back.
> For what it's worth, anyone posts a complaint on this group, You
> really need to be prepared for us to respond in your favor. As far
> as "Hate mail" goes, every message I read had a "business" tone to
> it, so I presume that would be the Sales Dept. or Service manager's
> Terminology. Be assured, we shouldn't respond in a hateful manner,
> always try to keep it professional.
> > If you don't want us to say anything, just don't tell us.
> >
> > Bill Mish
> > Yldkat
> > 1955 Willys CJ3B
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
12023 From: Tom Quinn <tom@q...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 9:24pm
Subject: Re: Copyright violation
Bill - since you bring it up, I want to verify your pic is ok on the
azvjc.org member's page. I think it was already there before Mike
and I took the site over from Jim, so I can only assume you submitted
it yourself. Let me know if not (this goes for everyone!)
You bring up a good point though, we currently have nothing on the
AZVJC site that says anything specifically of not copying pictures
for any use without written consent. I guess as the size of the club
grows we're opening ourselves to more issues and now need some
written "law" rather than implied.
I personally do not actually know what the implied copyright laws are
on the 'net. I think most people feel that all things are public
domain unless otherwise noted.
I'll work on getting something written for www.azvjc.org. Thanks for
bringing it up!
As for PhotoPoint, here is a small clip of their Terms and
Conditions, sub heading Copyrights:
"All right title and interest in individual photographs posted on the
Site will remain the exclusive property of the individual owner of
the applicable photograph, and PhotoPoint claims no copyright or
other proprietary right in these works."
I'll come up with something.
Tom
--- In az_vjc@egroups.com, "William Mish" <yldkat55@h...> wrote:
> I has come to my attention that someone in this group has posted a
picture
> of my Jeep on his site without my permission or the permission of
the
> originating site. This person is in violation of copyright laws,
and had
> better get it off his site or further action will be taken. I will
pursue
> all avenues open to me to protect my rights.
>
> Bill Mish
> Yldkat
> 1955 Willys CJ3B
> http://drive.to/yldkat55
12024 From: William Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 10:10pm
Subject: Re: Re: Copyright violation
Of Course!
I consented to that voluntarily!
As a matter of fact, I pursued the AZVJC to get it posted (Jim Langdon days). I also pursued an update, which was executed.
However, I do not want my property "displayed" outside the realm of my control, and certainly NOT WITHOUT MY PERMISSION, or the permission of the site it was taken from.
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Quinn
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 9:24 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Copyright violation
Bill - since you bring it up, I want to verify your pic is ok on the
azvjc.org member's page. I think it was already there before Mike
and I took the site over from Jim, so I can only assume you submitted
it yourself. Let me know if not (this goes for everyone!)
You bring up a good point though, we currently have nothing on the
AZVJC site that says anything specifically of not copying pictures
for any use without written consent. I guess as the size of the club
grows we're opening ourselves to more issues and now need some
written "law" rather than implied.
I personally do not actually know what the implied copyright laws are
on the 'net. I think most people feel that all things are public
domain unless otherwise noted.
I'll work on getting something written for www.azvjc.org. Thanks for
bringing it up!
As for PhotoPoint, here is a small clip of their Terms and
Conditions, sub heading Copyrights:
"All right title and interest in individual photographs posted on the
Site will remain the exclusive property of the individual owner of
the applicable photograph, and PhotoPoint claims no copyright or
other proprietary right in these works."
I'll come up with something.
Tom
--- In az_vjc@egroups.com, "William Mish" wrote:
> I has come to my attention that someone in this group has posted a
picture
> of my Jeep on his site without my permission or the permission of
the
> originating site. This person is in violation of copyright laws,
and had
> better get it off his site or further action will be taken. I will
pursue
> all avenues open to me to protect my rights.
>
> Bill Mish
> Yldkat
> 1955 Willys CJ3B
> http://drive.to/yldkat55
12025 From: <JNB4PLS@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 5:59pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 262
Tom:
If you don't find one locally for a reasonable price you might try Quadratec.
I've seen new poly tanks in their catalogue for around $139.00. You can find
them at Quadtratec.com.
John Butler
12026 From: Tom Quinn <tom@q...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 10:19pm
Subject: Re: Copyright violation
Ok, I took a quick stab at some legal mumbo jumbo for the azvjc.org
site, and in general, the AZVJC.
http://www.azvjc.org/legal.htm
Basically I said if you submit it, it's property of azvjc.org and you
cannot copy or link to it without permission from azvjc.org, but you
probably won't get that permission because of the privacy commitment
to it's members.
Now I'm no lawyer, so if you are one or know of one, let me know if
there are any issues with what I threw together. I remember
something came up a long time ago about the responsibility of trip
leaders and what if someone got hurt on a run, etc. I think Doug B.
had written something, but I couldn't find it easily again. Consider
this the first rough draft.
Thanks for bringing this up Bill!
Tom
--- In az_vjc@egroups.com, "William Mish" <yldkat55@h...> wrote:
> Of Course!
> I consented to that voluntarily!
> As a matter of fact, I pursued the AZVJC to get it posted (Jim
Langdon days). I also pursued an update, which was executed.
> However, I do not want my property "displayed" outside the realm of
my control, and certainly NOT WITHOUT MY PERMISSION, or the
permission of the site it was taken from.
> Bill Mish
> Yldkat
> 1955 Willys CJ3B
> http://drive.to/yldkat55
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tom Quinn
> To: az_vjc@egroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 9:24 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Copyright violation
>
>
> Bill - since you bring it up, I want to verify your pic is ok on
the
> azvjc.org member's page. I think it was already there before
Mike
> and I took the site over from Jim, so I can only assume you
submitted
> it yourself. Let me know if not (this goes for everyone!)
>
> You bring up a good point though, we currently have nothing on
the
> AZVJC site that says anything specifically of not copying
pictures
> for any use without written consent. I guess as the size of the
club
> grows we're opening ourselves to more issues and now need some
> written "law" rather than implied.
>
> I personally do not actually know what the implied copyright laws
are
> on the 'net. I think most people feel that all things are public
> domain unless otherwise noted.
>
> I'll work on getting something written for www.azvjc.org. Thanks
for
> bringing it up!
>
> As for PhotoPoint, here is a small clip of their Terms and
> Conditions, sub heading Copyrights:
>
> "All right title and interest in individual photographs posted on
the
> Site will remain the exclusive property of the individual owner
of
> the applicable photograph, and PhotoPoint claims no copyright or
> other proprietary right in these works."
>
> I'll come up with something.
>
> Tom
>
> --- In az_vjc@egroups.com, "William Mish" <yldkat55@h...> wrote:
> > I has come to my attention that someone in this group has
posted a
> picture
> > of my Jeep on his site without my permission or the permission
of
> the
> > originating site. This person is in violation of copyright
laws,
> and had
> > better get it off his site or further action will be taken. I
will
> pursue
> > all avenues open to me to protect my rights.
> >
> > Bill Mish
> > Yldkat
> > 1955 Willys CJ3B
> > http://drive.to/yldkat55
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
12027 From: Jchio - Alloffroad.com <jchio@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 10:53pm
Subject: Re: Re: Copyright violation
Tom, I was excepticall about this kind of stuff, but it was until today that we realized 2 websites took pictures from our website (www.Alloffroad.com) without our authorization, we do accept if someone who was in a trail ride want to use the pictures of his rig or some other that was there, to add it to his personal page, or if anyone save tech pictures to share them with their buds, without any purpose of profit, damage or injury to third persons.
One of this websites is www.Jeepfan.com who added one of our Editors on their Readers Jeeps, what got us upset, since they did that without any request or permission.
This could be a lesson for all of us, not only to respect others work but, as Bill Mish as Bill says to protect his rights.
I have some links of the Copyright Law and some reviews that can be usefull, if any of you want some more information, feel free to email me.
Jesus Chio
www.alloffroad.com
Free webpages
http://signup.alloffroad.com
My Eb project
www.alloffroad.com/chio
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Quinn
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 12:19 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Copyright violation
Ok, I took a quick stab at some legal mumbo jumbo for the azvjc.org
site, and in general, the AZVJC.
http://www.azvjc.org/legal.htm
Basically I said if you submit it, it's property of azvjc.org and you
cannot copy or link to it without permission from azvjc.org, but you
probably won't get that permission because of the privacy commitment
to it's members.
Now I'm no lawyer, so if you are one or know of one, let me know if
there are any issues with what I threw together. I remember
something came up a long time ago about the responsibility of trip
leaders and what if someone got hurt on a run, etc. I think Doug B.
had written something, but I couldn't find it easily again. Consider
this the first rough draft.
Thanks for bringing this up Bill!
Tom
12028 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 11:01pm
Subject: Re: Re: Copyright violation
Looks great Tom. Thanks for putting it together!
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Quinn" <tom@q...>
To: <az_vjc@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 10:19 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Copyright violation
> Ok, I took a quick stab at some legal mumbo jumbo for the azvjc.org
> site, and in general, the AZVJC.
>
> http://www.azvjc.org/legal.htm
>
> Basically I said if you submit it, it's property of azvjc.org and you
> cannot copy or link to it without permission from azvjc.org, but you
> probably won't get that permission because of the privacy commitment
> to it's members.
>
> Now I'm no lawyer, so if you are one or know of one, let me know if
> there are any issues with what I threw together. I remember
> something came up a long time ago about the responsibility of trip
> leaders and what if someone got hurt on a run, etc. I think Doug B.
> had written something, but I couldn't find it easily again. Consider
> this the first rough draft.
>
> Thanks for bringing this up Bill!
>
> Tom
>
> --- In az_vjc@egroups.com, "William Mish" <yldkat55@h...> wrote:
> > Of Course!
> > I consented to that voluntarily!
> > As a matter of fact, I pursued the AZVJC to get it posted (Jim
> Langdon days). I also pursued an update, which was executed.
> > However, I do not want my property "displayed" outside the realm of
> my control, and certainly NOT WITHOUT MY PERMISSION, or the
> permission of the site it was taken from.
> > Bill Mish
> > Yldkat
> > 1955 Willys CJ3B
> > http://drive.to/yldkat55
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Tom Quinn
> > To: az_vjc@egroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 9:24 PM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Copyright violation
> >
> >
> > Bill - since you bring it up, I want to verify your pic is ok on
> the
> > azvjc.org member's page. I think it was already there before
> Mike
> > and I took the site over from Jim, so I can only assume you
> submitted
> > it yourself. Let me know if not (this goes for everyone!)
> >
> > You bring up a good point though, we currently have nothing on
> the
> > AZVJC site that says anything specifically of not copying
> pictures
> > for any use without written consent. I guess as the size of the
> club
> > grows we're opening ourselves to more issues and now need some
> > written "law" rather than implied.
> >
> > I personally do not actually know what the implied copyright laws
> are
> > on the 'net. I think most people feel that all things are public
> > domain unless otherwise noted.
> >
> > I'll work on getting something written for www.azvjc.org. Thanks
> for
> > bringing it up!
> >
> > As for PhotoPoint, here is a small clip of their Terms and
> > Conditions, sub heading Copyrights:
> >
> > "All right title and interest in individual photographs posted on
> the
> > Site will remain the exclusive property of the individual owner
> of
> > the applicable photograph, and PhotoPoint claims no copyright or
> > other proprietary right in these works."
> >
> > I'll come up with something.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@egroups.com, "William Mish" <yldkat55@h...> wrote:
> > > I has come to my attention that someone in this group has
> posted a
> > picture
> > > of my Jeep on his site without my permission or the permission
> of
> > the
> > > originating site. This person is in violation of copyright
> laws,
> > and had
> > > better get it off his site or further action will be taken. I
> will
> > pursue
> > > all avenues open to me to protect my rights.
> > >
> > > Bill Mish
> > > Yldkat
> > > 1955 Willys CJ3B
> > > http://drive.to/yldkat55
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
>
>
>
>
>
>
12029 From: Len Sullivan <kermit@e...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 2:15pm
Subject: Re: White Tanks cleanup headcount?
Hi Stu and all
Dave just moved into a new house and is on vacation this week, so his time
on line is kinda spotty. I don't know if trash bags will be provided, so it
would be a safe bet to bring some of your own. I have a big roll left over
from the last Coves Cleanup, so I have some to share if anybody needs some.
For those of you who aren't familiar with the White Tanks area and aren't
sure about finding the Dunes, I'll be at the Love's truck stop at Miller
Road and I-10 sometime around 6:30 to 6:45 or so and would be happy to lead
you in. Just look for the big ugly white J-10 with the bright green
fenderwells.
Len
The Jeeper Formerly Known as Hootus
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
To: david.oboyle@s... <david.oboyle@s...>;
kermit@e... <kermit@e...>; az_vjc@egroups.com
<az_vjc@egroups.com>
Date: Thursday, August 24, 2000 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] White Tanks cleanup headcount?
>David,
>
>Do the participants need to supply their own trash bags or are they being
>provided by State Trust Land??
>
>Thanks.......Stu
>
>
>Stu Olson N7QJP
>Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
>http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
>http://home.off-road.com/~stu
>
12030 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 6:37am
Subject: Re: Fwd: Be warned of Bill Luke Chrysler service
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bill Luke C-P-J
> To: William Mish
> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 5:41 PM
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Fwd: Be warned of Bill Luke Chrysler service
>
> You sent this message to the wrong department. Click on www.billluke.com and find Service Department. By the way, did you know that Mr.
> Chatfield's $38 was refunded by our service department and the check is actually in the mail as this is written?
So, uh, Mr. Chatfield, you get that $38 yet?
How's that for quality conscious?
You think they sent Jeff's money to Mike?
I especially like how the "C-P-J" guys are completely unwilling to give
the Service Departments email address- "Click on www.billluke.com and
find Service Department." How's that for customer service?
Further, does anyone here believe that Jeff had even a slight chance of
getting that money back without these emails going to Bill Luke? What a
sad state of affairs.
Dave Reinken
Owner of six vehicles, including 2 Jeeps (1973 and 1991) and 2 Dodges
(1992 and 2000.)
My 2000 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport was purchased at Performance Dodge,
where I have had good experiences thus far.
12031 From: Leonard K. Pennock <leonardpennock@h...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 6:50am
Subject: Re: [arizonaXJ] Wheel Bearings ?
Somebody on one of these groups, azvjc or azxj, had offered free wheel
bearings to the group. I orginally responed that I wanted them. I
haven't gotten around to picking them up and I can't seem to find the
email address for the person that had them. Sounds like Sean needs them
more than I do so if you still have them could you respond so that Sean
can get them?
Boney XJ Sean wrote:
>
> What is the worst that can happen with bad front wheel bearings? I'm starting to get a little worried about mine; the way they sound, at least the driver side assembly. It's almost as though I have a wire brush stuck against the rotor, or something. Also sounds like I have marbles in my beauty rings. I try not to drive it too much, but have to have transpo for being on-call.Any help is greatly appreciated.Boney
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> arizonaXJ-unsubscribe@egroups.com
--
Leonard K. Pennock
Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure,
find that they very rarely lose or fail.
12032 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 7:08am
Subject: Fw: Trail Dust Days Application
For those interested, attached is a copy of the Tucson Rough Riders Trail
Dust Days application. This is an October event that, from all accounts, is
really great. I know a number from the club are planning on going (it's in
October).
Happy Trails,
Doug
Attachment: (application/pdf) mso3D4.PDF [not stored]
12033 From: Chris R. <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 7:51am
Subject: Re: Fwd: Be warned of Bill Luke Chrysler service
To whom it may concern,
Not sure that statement applies as it is obvious that one persons business
did not matter to your service staff. I am also one of those 300 Jeepers
mentioned and am currently in the market for a new vehicle.
With so many dealerships in the state I have a wide selection and your
treatment of one of our club members has made my decision a very easy one
that your dealership will not be one of them considered when it comes time
to purchase a new vehicle.
I just cannot fathum the stupidity it must have taken for that service
manager to even think about charging him for something the service tech
obviously did during the previous service. It is poor customer service like
this that brings companies down.
I am sure that your company will survive even if everyone one of our members
never shops there, but when your working on commission every customer
counts. Just think of the good press your dealership could have received
you had treated him right and the possible commissions that would have been
involved.
Enjoy yor smaller paycheck as I am sure that $38 does not include much of a
commission.
Chris
http://www.hotstuff.alloffroad.com/
My1stJeep@e...
'97 TJ
----------------------------------------------------
"He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a
fool forever."
On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 12:09:23 -0700, Chatfield, Mike wrote:
> Gentlemen,
>
> Rest assured, I am one of the "300 closest jeeping friends."
> mentioned in the letter below.
>
> Hearing about service like this makes my decisions even easier
> when it comes to shopping for a new or used car or for a service
> department to take my car to if it needs repairs.
>
> I can now scratch Bill Luke off of my goto list.
>
> I hope the $38 diagnostic fee you charged to find a problem your
> service department created while "fixing" this jeep was worth it.
>
> Since I couldn't find an e-mail address for the General Manager online,
> I CC'ed the Internet Sales guys to let them know that their service
> manager is making their job to sell cars more difficult.
>
> - Mike Chatfield
>
> ---------------------- Original Text -------------------------
>
> I just wanted to share my 1st and only experience with Bill Luke
> Chrysler (Camelback and I-17) with 300 of my closest jeeping friends.
>
> I had Bill Luke Chrysler fix a cooling problem on my XJ (they were at
> the right place at the right time). I picked up the vehicle when it
> was done (last Thursday) and on the drive home I noticed right away
> that the air conditioning vents weren't working at all. As it was
> rush hour traffic and I've got a friend with me I drove home hoping
> the problem would fix itself. On Monday I called the dealership and
> explained the problem and and that I was sure it was a result of the
> original work. Tuesday I dropped off the XJ and waited for it to get
> fixed. I was charged a diagnostic fee of $38 to determine that a
> vacuum line was disconnected under the bumper. I explained to the
> Service Advisor that that was a direct result of the original work
> since the vacuum line *had* to be disconnected to remove the radiator
> (they did remove the radiator).
>
> On a side note, I did originally tell the Service Advisor that I
> thought the new problem was a result of the airbag sensor recall
> because they had to remove part of the dash to relocate the sensor.
> I tried to explain to him that this new problem was a result of the
> original work. The Service Advisor said he based his troubleshooting
> (diagnosis of the vacuum system) on that fact and it had nothing to
> do with the airbag recall. Agreed. BTW, diagnosis of the vacuum
> system did lead to finding disconnected vacuum line under the bumper.
>
> So I got charged for diagnosing a problem that was created by
> unfinished original work. Yesterday I got a call from Bill Luke for
> a customer service survey. I explained (nicely) that I was unjustly
> charged for the diagnostic fee and I will never spend another penny
> at Bill Luke either through repairs of my 3 Jeep vehicles or purchase
> a vehicle from them unless I'm reimbursed the diagnostic fee. I also
> explained that I wasn't expecting to get reimbursed, but if I did, I
> would most likely use their services again.
>
> I had a phone conversation with the Service Advisor today (he seemed
> bitter that I gave him a bad survey) and he explained there was
> nothing they would do (I'm sure this situation does happen
> frequently). I again explained that I felt I was unjustly charged
> and they would lose a customer over a $38 charge (I spent $560 on the
> first service charge). He seemed fine with that. After that phone
> conversation, I decided I would tell 300 of my closest AZ jeep
> friends about my Bill Luke experience. The Service Manager has my
> number, although I doubt I'll hear from him/her. It does surprise me
> that a company would lose a customer over a charge this small - they
> have a good chance of recouping that money within the next visit.
> Definitely not now.
>
> All in all, I am frustrated that I can't find a decent dealership to
> do work on my vehicle. Just thought I'd pass along my experience.
> Thanks for letting me rant a little. Maybe I'm way off base here,
> but I don't think quality of service and customer service like this
> should be tolerated.
>
>
> Mike Chatfield
>
__________________________________________________ _____
Say Bye to Slow Internet!
http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html
12034 From: Jeff Meade <jeffm@d...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 7:51am
Subject: Re: please read about Bill Luke
Hey all --
I sent the original post after I had a frustrating conversation with
the service advisor on (he said) the service manager's behalf. I was
under the impression that the service manager wasn't going to call
and Bill Luke wasn't going to resolve this, so I sent the post
explaining the service.
So then I get a call from Service Manager, he hadn't seen or heard
anything about my posting but I did mention my conversation with the
service advisor. He refunded me the $38 because he didn't want to
lose a valued customer and said, although the disconnected vacuum
line might not have been a result of the original work, he would
happily give me not only $38 but more to compensate. That's very
generous. I did, however, ask him to please only send me $38 as I
felt that was acceptable. On his staff's defense, the sales manager
spoke very highly of his staff and especially his sales advisor. To
say the least, he was *very* upset when the internet sales department
(not his department) was innundated with mail about this issue after
it was resolved. I explained to the sales manager that I posted back
to the group about the $38 refund but there were still messages being
sent on the original issue.
This may sound ungrateful, but I feel really bad about the treatment
Bill Luke's staff has gotten as a result of this. The internet sales
staff has nothing to do with this issue yet because they were the
first email address someone was able to find that's the address all
subsequent messages were going. I can't believe that. I do agree
that if the sales manager's email address would have been more easily
found from their website (if at all) the messages would have been
sent to the appropriate address in the first place. I appreciate and
am glad to see the level of support this group gives.
All I can say is please let it drop. The service manager took care
of business professionally and I thank him for that. When I get the
check in the mail he can be rest assured I will spend all of the
money on parts from Bill Luke's parts department.
Sincerely,
Jeff
BTW, is it too early for a beer? :)
--- In az_vjc@egroups.com, Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Bill Luke C-P-J
> > To: William Mish
> > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 5:41 PM
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Fwd: Be warned of Bill Luke Chrysler
service
> >
> > You sent this message to the wrong department. Click on
www.billluke.com and find Service Department. By the way, did you
know that Mr.
> > Chatfield's $38 was refunded by our service department and
the check is actually in the mail as this is written?
>
> So, uh, Mr. Chatfield, you get that $38 yet?
>
> How's that for quality conscious?
>
> You think they sent Jeff's money to Mike?
>
> I especially like how the "C-P-J" guys are completely unwilling to
give
> the Service Departments email address- "Click on www.billluke.com
and
> find Service Department." How's that for customer service?
>
> Further, does anyone here believe that Jeff had even a slight
chance of
> getting that money back without these emails going to Bill Luke?
What a
> sad state of affairs.
>
> Dave Reinken
> Owner of six vehicles, including 2 Jeeps (1973 and 1991) and 2
Dodges
> (1992 and 2000.)
> My 2000 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport was purchased at Performance
Dodge,
> where I have had good experiences thus far.
12035 From: Thomas Jacobson <Tjacobs@I...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 7:58am
Subject: So Many Questions...
Hey gang -
First off, thanks again to all who responded on the gas tank locator. No
luck with anything used or after-market and Darner wants (sit down) $330 for
a new one. Instead, bought 2 packs of the silly putty type, 2-part, gas
tank repair epoxy for $2.14 and applied last night. Will see how my
"permanent band-aid" held up when I get home tonight. What did I have to
lose? If it don't hold, THEN I'll go bust out the credit card!
Now...how difficult is the wheelin at White Tanks tomorrow? If gas tank
still leaks and I can't get the 2nd JAFO seat in my friend's Cherokee, I'm
thinking of driving my S-10 Blazer 4x4. It's not an off road virgin, but I
need to keep it to the Class 2ish stuff.
2nd...a friend also ran Box Canyon earlier this week (Tues) and said it's
really changed after all the rain. Anyone interested in a run thru Box and
Martinez Canyons sometime during the Labor Day weekend? Could also opt for
Lower Woodpecker on the way out (I'll be watching!) or at least try to get
to the Old Mill on Martinez for the more hardcore set.
3rd...will a resident Holley Projection expert contact me off-list?...unless
everyone's interested...I'm wondering about putting the 4bbl, 670cfm unit
(off an AMC 360 V8) on a 258 I6. Or, possibly trade this unit to someone
with the smaller 1bbl (300 cfm) set-up left over from an engine swap or
upgrade. It's complete with computer and O2 loop. I'm corn-fused on this
one...both units supply the same amount of fuel per unit time (2x45 unit vol
injectors in 670cfm vs 1x90 unit vol inj on 300cfm); so what if I had a 4bbl
intake on my 258, then I'd be using the 670cfm unit anyway right?
Muchas Garcias...
Tom
12036 From: Leonard K. Pennock <leonardpennock@h...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 8:02am
Subject: Re: Re: please read about Bill Luke
You should CC Bill Luke so they know you are trying to get the mail
stopped. This way they will realize that once something is placed on
the internet it takes on a life of its own and lives on after correction
is made. This will make them less likely to do the same thing again.
Jeff Meade wrote:
>
> Hey all --
>
> I sent the original post after I had a frustrating conversation with
> the service advisor on (he said) the service manager's behalf. I was
> under the impression that the service manager wasn't going to call
> and Bill Luke wasn't going to resolve this, so I sent the post
> explaining the service.
>
> So then I get a call from Service Manager, he hadn't seen or heard
> anything about my posting but I did mention my conversation with the
> service advisor. He refunded me the $38 because he didn't want to
> lose a valued customer and said, although the disconnected vacuum
> line might not have been a result of the original work, he would
> happily give me not only $38 but more to compensate. That's very
> generous. I did, however, ask him to please only send me $38 as I
> felt that was acceptable. On his staff's defense, the sales manager
> spoke very highly of his staff and especially his sales advisor. To
> say the least, he was *very* upset when the internet sales department
> (not his department) was innundated with mail about this issue after
> it was resolved. I explained to the sales manager that I posted back
> to the group about the $38 refund but there were still messages being
> sent on the original issue.
>
> This may sound ungrateful, but I feel really bad about the treatment
> Bill Luke's staff has gotten as a result of this. The internet sales
> staff has nothing to do with this issue yet because they were the
> first email address someone was able to find that's the address all
> subsequent messages were going. I can't believe that. I do agree
> that if the sales manager's email address would have been more easily
> found from their website (if at all) the messages would have been
> sent to the appropriate address in the first place. I appreciate and
> am glad to see the level of support this group gives.
>
> All I can say is please let it drop. The service manager took care
> of business professionally and I thank him for that. When I get the
> check in the mail he can be rest assured I will spend all of the
> money on parts from Bill Luke's parts department.
>
> Sincerely,
> Jeff
>
> BTW, is it too early for a beer? :)
>
> --- In az_vjc@egroups.com, Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Bill Luke C-P-J
> > > To: William Mish
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 5:41 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Fwd: Be warned of Bill Luke Chrysler
> service
> > >
> > > You sent this message to the wrong department. Click on
> www.billluke.com and find Service Department. By the way, did you
> know that Mr.
> > > Chatfield's $38 was refunded by our service department and
> the check is actually in the mail as this is written?
> >
> > So, uh, Mr. Chatfield, you get that $38 yet?
> >
> > How's that for quality conscious?
> >
> > You think they sent Jeff's money to Mike?
> >
> > I especially like how the "C-P-J" guys are completely unwilling to
> give
> > the Service Departments email address- "Click on www.billluke.com
> and
> > find Service Department." How's that for customer service?
> >
> > Further, does anyone here believe that Jeff had even a slight
> chance of
> > getting that money back without these emails going to Bill Luke?
> What a
> > sad state of affairs.
> >
> > Dave Reinken
> > Owner of six vehicles, including 2 Jeeps (1973 and 1991) and 2
> Dodges
> > (1992 and 2000.)
> > My 2000 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport was purchased at Performance
> Dodge,
> > where I have had good experiences thus far.
>
--
Leonard K. Pennock
Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure,
find that they very rarely lose or fail.
12037 From: Leonard K. Pennock <leonardpennock@h...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 8:06am
Subject: Re: So Many Questions...
A 670cfm unit is way to big for a 258. Assuming you want to be able to
run the 258 to 5500rpm you only need a 410CFM carb. For offroad you want
to go smaller as it improves your low rpm drivability.
Thomas Jacobson wrote:
>
> Hey gang -
>
> First off, thanks again to all who responded on the gas tank locator. No
> luck with anything used or after-market and Darner wants (sit down) $330 for
> a new one. Instead, bought 2 packs of the silly putty type, 2-part, gas
> tank repair epoxy for $2.14 and applied last night. Will see how my
> "permanent band-aid" held up when I get home tonight. What did I have to
> lose? If it don't hold, THEN I'll go bust out the credit card!
>
> Now...how difficult is the wheelin at White Tanks tomorrow? If gas tank
> still leaks and I can't get the 2nd JAFO seat in my friend's Cherokee, I'm
> thinking of driving my S-10 Blazer 4x4. It's not an off road virgin, but I
> need to keep it to the Class 2ish stuff.
>
> 2nd...a friend also ran Box Canyon earlier this week (Tues) and said it's
> really changed after all the rain. Anyone interested in a run thru Box and
> Martinez Canyons sometime during the Labor Day weekend? Could also opt for
> Lower Woodpecker on the way out (I'll be watching!) or at least try to get
> to the Old Mill on Martinez for the more hardcore set.
>
> 3rd...will a resident Holley Projection expert contact me off-list?...unless
> everyone's interested...I'm wondering about putting the 4bbl, 670cfm unit
> (off an AMC 360 V8) on a 258 I6. Or, possibly trade this unit to someone
> with the smaller 1bbl (300 cfm) set-up left over from an engine swap or
> upgrade. It's complete with computer and O2 loop. I'm corn-fused on this
> one...both units supply the same amount of fuel per unit time (2x45 unit vol
> injectors in 670cfm vs 1x90 unit vol inj on 300cfm); so what if I had a 4bbl
> intake on my 258, then I'd be using the 670cfm unit anyway right?
>
> Muchas Garcias...
> Tom
>
>
>
--
Leonard K. Pennock
Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure,
find that they very rarely lose or fail.
12013 From: Mike & Anita Chatfield <mchat@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 6:07pm
Subject: Fwd: Be warned of Bill Luke Chrysler service
I don't know when it happened but it seems to me that most larger
businesses have stopped caring about the customer. Many times I've
been the one getting ripped off and wished there was something more I
could do than just say "well you've lost one customer for good."
because they really don't seem to care.
So when I see an opportunity to help a fellow jeeper (did our
messages help get through to the service manager? who knows) stand up
for his consumer rights, I'm there.
I think Bill Luke's Service department has seen the light, I imagine
that the Service Advisor has gotten a talking to from the Service
Manager today.
--- In az_vjc@egroups.com, "Jeff Meade" <jeffm@d...> wrote:
> Hey all --
>
> Please remember that I only posted the original information for the
> group to see what I went through in this instance. I didn't post
> that information expecting to generate a barrage of messages to the
> service department. If the service manager had talked to me
earlier,
> I would have been much happer. All in all, the service manager was
a
> very nice man and I hope he's able to now see how important good
> customer service is to the jeeping community. Just don't go
> overboard here ...
> Jeff
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
12014 From: Scott Kruize <osmtj@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 6:21pm
Subject: Re: Dealers
Moore sucks too.
Scott Kruize
Roger Tomas wrote:
There's Moore out on 83rd Ave and Bell Rd but I wouldn't recommend them.
When I took my YJ in for the fuel sending unit gaskt recall, they refused
to do the work because I had a shallow dent in my gas tank skid plate.
They said it would be too hard to re-seat the fuel pump in the tank.
I then took my Jeep to Pitre on east Bell Rd and they did it without
saying a word. I have taken my Jeep to Pitre for other things and they
have been ok. But they are now Lou Grubb Jeep and I don't know if
anything has changed. They did have a some true Jeepers for mechanics.
-Roger
> Nnote wrote:
>
> So if Bill Lukes, Biddaulphs and I've scratched Earnhardt's off the list who
> is left? It's funny though that the parts department is always good. Maybe
> it's because we usually know EXACTLY what we need, it's not up to them?!
> Nick
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
12015 From: William Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 6:40pm
Subject: Re: Fwd: Be warned of Bill Luke Chrysler service
Yes, Actually. He informed us all that the Service Manager cut him a check about 15-20 minutes ago, and if you'll notice, you were just cc'ed on this message for info only. Thank You for responding, and I'm sure we all will consider your Company for business.
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Luke C-P-J
To: William Mish
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 5:41 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Fwd: Be warned of Bill Luke Chrysler service
You sent this message to the wrong department. Click on www.billluke.com and find Service Department. By the way, did you know that Mr. Chatfield's $38 was refunded by our service department and the check is actually in the mail as this is written?
-----Original Message-----
From: William Mish [mailto:yldkat55@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 17:41
To: cjservice@billluke.com; Chatfield, Mike
Cc: cpj@billluke.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Fwd: Be warned of Bill Luke Chrysler service
I would have to agree with Mr. Chatfield on this. I know I will not come to you to be treated unfairly.
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
----- Original Message -----
From: Chatfield, Mike
To: 'cjservice@billluke.com'
Cc: 'cpj@billluke.com'
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 12:09 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Fwd: Be warned of Bill Luke Chrysler service
Gentlemen,
Rest assured, I am one of the "300 closest jeeping friends."
mentioned in the letter below.
Hearing about service like this makes my decisions even easier
when it comes to shopping for a new or used car or for a service
department to take my car to if it needs repairs.
I can now scratch Bill Luke off of my goto list.
I hope the $38 diagnostic fee you charged to find a problem your
service department created while "fixing" this jeep was worth it.
Since I couldn't find an e-mail address for the General Manager online,
I CC'ed the Internet Sales guys to let them know that their service
manager is making their job to sell cars more difficult.
- Mike Chatfield
---------------------- Original Text -------------------------
I just wanted to share my 1st and only experience with Bill Luke
Chrysler (Camelback and I-17) with 300 of my closest jeeping friends.
I had Bill Luke Chrysler fix a cooling problem on my XJ (they were at
the right place at the right time). I picked up the vehicle when it
was done (last Thursday) and on the drive home I noticed right away
that the air conditioning vents weren't working at all. As it was
rush hour traffic and I've got a friend with me I drove home hoping
the problem would fix itself. On Monday I called the dealership and
explained the problem and and that I was sure it was a result of the
original work. Tuesday I dropped off the XJ and waited for it to get
fixed. I was charged a diagnostic fee of $38 to determine that a
vacuum line was disconnected under the bumper. I explained to the
Service Advisor that that was a direct result of the original work
since the vacuum line *had* to be disconnected to remove the radiator
(they did remove the radiator).
On a side note, I did originally tell the Service Advisor that I
thought the new problem was a result of the airbag sensor recall
because they had to remove part of the dash to relocate the sensor.
I tried to explain to him that this new problem was a result of the
original work. The Service Advisor said he based his troubleshooting
(diagnosis of the vacuum system) on that fact and it had nothing to
do with the airbag recall. Agreed. BTW, diagnosis of the vacuum
system did lead to finding disconnected vacuum line under the bumper.
So I got charged for diagnosing a problem that was created by
unfinished original work. Yesterday I got a call from Bill Luke for
a customer service survey. I explained (nicely) that I was unjustly
charged for the diagnostic fee and I will never spend another penny
at Bill Luke either through repairs of my 3 Jeep vehicles or purchase
a vehicle from them unless I'm reimbursed the diagnostic fee. I also
explained that I wasn't expecting to get reimbursed, but if I did, I
would most likely use their services again.
I had a phone conversation with the Service Advisor today (he seemed
bitter that I gave him a bad survey) and he explained there was
nothing they would do (I'm sure this situation does happen
frequently). I again explained that I felt I was unjustly charged
and they would lose a customer over a $38 charge (I spent $560 on the
first service charge). He seemed fine with that. After that phone
conversation, I decided I would tell 300 of my closest AZ jeep
friends about my Bill Luke experience. The Service Manager has my
number, although I doubt I'll hear from him/her. It does surprise me
that a company would lose a customer over a charge this small - they
have a good chance of recouping that money within the next visit.
Definitely not now.
All in all, I am frustrated that I can't find a decent dealership to
do work on my vehicle. Just thought I'd pass along my experience.
Thanks for letting me rant a little. Maybe I'm way off base here,
but I don't think quality of service and customer service like this
should be tolerated.
Mike Chatfield
12016 From: <lwt002@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 2:27pm
Subject: Re: Unhappy customer/Con-ferr
I ordered the rack from 4 wheel parts wholesalers
www.4wheelparts.com
Conferr is
www.conferr.com
Thanks for the support !!
Larry
12017 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 7:15pm
Subject: RE: stop stop stop
Well, that is good to hear. Maybe, just maybe, the dealership learned a
lesson (is that too much to hope for?). Maybe they realize that a portion
of the Jeep owners in the valley are a tight knit community and that word of
mouth travels very fast (as seen today!).
Granted, I am sure they service 50 grocery getters for every Jeep that sees
good off-road use. It appears that the guy got a wake up call and that is
what counts. If one department gets ticked off at another department
because of their screw-up....well, maybe a little bit of peer pressure is a
good thing for them! If it comes up at tomorrow's manager meeting, that
will be even better. Jeff, you may have made a BIG difference for a lot of
Jeepers, and that is something to be proud of! (now hurry up and cash that
check before they get really ticked at you and issue a stop payment order
against it!) LOL!
Glad you got your check, Jeff!
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Meade [mailto:jeffm@d...]
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 6:04 PM
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] stop stop stop
Ok, got a call from the Service Manager again asking why his internet
sales staff was getting bombarded with hate mail. Please read my
follow up posts before you go calling or emailing them telling them
off.
Regards,
Jeff
12018 From: William Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 8:32pm
Subject: Re: stop stop stop
AWW.... C'mon Stu, you think we made a difference?
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
I for one think it's great the Service Manager called Jeff back. For what it's worth, anyone posts a complaint on this group, You really need to be prepared for us to respond in your favor. As far as "Hate mail" goes, every message I read had a "business" tone to it, so I presume that would be the Sales Dept. or Service manager's Terminology. Be assured, we shouldn't respond in a hateful manner, always try to keep it professional.
If you don't want us to say anything, just don't tell us.
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
----- Original Message -----
From: Stu Olson
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 7:15 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] stop stop stop
Well, that is good to hear. Maybe, just maybe, the dealership learned a
lesson (is that too much to hope for?). Maybe they realize that a portion
of the Jeep owners in the valley are a tight knit community and that word of
mouth travels very fast (as seen today!).
Granted, I am sure they service 50 grocery getters for every Jeep that sees
good off-road use. It appears that the guy got a wake up call and that is
what counts. If one department gets ticked off at another department
because of their screw-up....well, maybe a little bit of peer pressure is a
good thing for them! If it comes up at tomorrow's manager meeting, that
will be even better. Jeff, you may have made a BIG difference for a lot of
Jeepers, and that is something to be proud of! (now hurry up and cash that
check before they get really ticked at you and issue a stop payment order
against it!) LOL!
Glad you got your check, Jeff!
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Meade [mailto:jeffm@desertwave.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 6:04 PM
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] stop stop stop
Ok, got a call from the Service Manager again asking why his internet
sales staff was getting bombarded with hate mail. Please read my
follow up posts before you go calling or emailing them telling them
off.
Regards,
Jeff
12019 From: LindaL <minihummer@w...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 8:22pm
Subject: Re: stop stop stop
I think it was a pretty good exercise. The service department at Bill Luke
Jeep found out what happens when they slight a customer. The basic rule in
business is that for every unhappy customer, you lose 100 potential
customers. No business can afford to do that. I am happy to hear that they
took care of your problem. I guess if any AZVJCers decide to use Bill Luke
for service they ought to take time to remind them the internet is a
wonderful means of communication.
Linda
Jeff Meade wrote:
> Ok, got a call from the Service Manager again asking why his internet
> sales staff was getting bombarded with hate mail. Please read my
> follow up posts before you go calling or emailing them telling them
> off.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff
>
12020 From: William Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 8:56pm
Subject: Copyright violation
I has come to my attention that someone in this group has posted a picture
of my Jeep on his site without my permission or the permission of the
originating site. This person is in violation of copyright laws, and had
better get it off his site or further action will be taken. I will pursue
all avenues open to me to protect my rights.
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
12021 From: Jeff Meade <jeffm@d...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 9:01pm
Subject: Re: stop stop stop
jeepers,
To say the least, the Service Manager couldn't figure out how this
information travelled so fast. I had to explain to him that the
majority of the responses he saw were due to my original post (one
response was just over an hour from my original post), which I am
still glad I sent to everyone here. No slander, no false info, just
facts about the service. When I got the call from him this
afternoon, he wanted to know 1) that I was satisfied (now, yes), 2)
the group was informed that I was satisfied (yes), and 3) when the
Internet Sales department would stop getting bombarded with email
(time will tell).
I appreciate the support that the club served, although for me this
was a matter of principle not money directly. I assume everyone saw
that from my original post. Sometimes companies can't understand
that.
Happy trails,
Jeff
--- In az_vjc@egroups.com, "William Mish" <yldkat55@h...> wrote:
> AWW.... C'mon Stu, you think we made a difference?
> HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
> I for one think it's great the Service Manager called Jeff back.
For what it's worth, anyone posts a complaint on this group, You
really need to be prepared for us to respond in your favor. As far
as "Hate mail" goes, every message I read had a "business" tone to
it, so I presume that would be the Sales Dept. or Service manager's
Terminology. Be assured, we shouldn't respond in a hateful manner,
always try to keep it professional.
> If you don't want us to say anything, just don't tell us.
>
> Bill Mish
> Yldkat
> 1955 Willys CJ3B
12022 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 9:25pm
Subject: Re: Re: stop stop stop
Personally, I think it's great that they did get some good responses from
the group. It's one of the benefits of memberships...Helps to justify those
hefty AzVJC dues :o).
Now...Jeff...when do we get our share of the $38 ?????
Glad it all worked out. Sometimes tactfully flexing a little muscle can be
helpful. Long live the Internet!
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Meade" <jeffm@d...>
To: <az_vjc@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 9:01 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: stop stop stop
> jeepers,
>
> To say the least, the Service Manager couldn't figure out how this
> information travelled so fast. I had to explain to him that the
> majority of the responses he saw were due to my original post (one
> response was just over an hour from my original post), which I am
> still glad I sent to everyone here. No slander, no false info, just
> facts about the service. When I got the call from him this
> afternoon, he wanted to know 1) that I was satisfied (now, yes), 2)
> the group was informed that I was satisfied (yes), and 3) when the
> Internet Sales department would stop getting bombarded with email
> (time will tell).
>
> I appreciate the support that the club served, although for me this
> was a matter of principle not money directly. I assume everyone saw
> that from my original post. Sometimes companies can't understand
> that.
>
> Happy trails,
> Jeff
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@egroups.com, "William Mish" <yldkat55@h...> wrote:
> > AWW.... C'mon Stu, you think we made a difference?
> > HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
> > I for one think it's great the Service Manager called Jeff back.
> For what it's worth, anyone posts a complaint on this group, You
> really need to be prepared for us to respond in your favor. As far
> as "Hate mail" goes, every message I read had a "business" tone to
> it, so I presume that would be the Sales Dept. or Service manager's
> Terminology. Be assured, we shouldn't respond in a hateful manner,
> always try to keep it professional.
> > If you don't want us to say anything, just don't tell us.
> >
> > Bill Mish
> > Yldkat
> > 1955 Willys CJ3B
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
12023 From: Tom Quinn <tom@q...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 9:24pm
Subject: Re: Copyright violation
Bill - since you bring it up, I want to verify your pic is ok on the
azvjc.org member's page. I think it was already there before Mike
and I took the site over from Jim, so I can only assume you submitted
it yourself. Let me know if not (this goes for everyone!)
You bring up a good point though, we currently have nothing on the
AZVJC site that says anything specifically of not copying pictures
for any use without written consent. I guess as the size of the club
grows we're opening ourselves to more issues and now need some
written "law" rather than implied.
I personally do not actually know what the implied copyright laws are
on the 'net. I think most people feel that all things are public
domain unless otherwise noted.
I'll work on getting something written for www.azvjc.org. Thanks for
bringing it up!
As for PhotoPoint, here is a small clip of their Terms and
Conditions, sub heading Copyrights:
"All right title and interest in individual photographs posted on the
Site will remain the exclusive property of the individual owner of
the applicable photograph, and PhotoPoint claims no copyright or
other proprietary right in these works."
I'll come up with something.
Tom
--- In az_vjc@egroups.com, "William Mish" <yldkat55@h...> wrote:
> I has come to my attention that someone in this group has posted a
picture
> of my Jeep on his site without my permission or the permission of
the
> originating site. This person is in violation of copyright laws,
and had
> better get it off his site or further action will be taken. I will
pursue
> all avenues open to me to protect my rights.
>
> Bill Mish
> Yldkat
> 1955 Willys CJ3B
> http://drive.to/yldkat55
12024 From: William Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 10:10pm
Subject: Re: Re: Copyright violation
Of Course!
I consented to that voluntarily!
As a matter of fact, I pursued the AZVJC to get it posted (Jim Langdon days). I also pursued an update, which was executed.
However, I do not want my property "displayed" outside the realm of my control, and certainly NOT WITHOUT MY PERMISSION, or the permission of the site it was taken from.
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Quinn
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 9:24 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Copyright violation
Bill - since you bring it up, I want to verify your pic is ok on the
azvjc.org member's page. I think it was already there before Mike
and I took the site over from Jim, so I can only assume you submitted
it yourself. Let me know if not (this goes for everyone!)
You bring up a good point though, we currently have nothing on the
AZVJC site that says anything specifically of not copying pictures
for any use without written consent. I guess as the size of the club
grows we're opening ourselves to more issues and now need some
written "law" rather than implied.
I personally do not actually know what the implied copyright laws are
on the 'net. I think most people feel that all things are public
domain unless otherwise noted.
I'll work on getting something written for www.azvjc.org. Thanks for
bringing it up!
As for PhotoPoint, here is a small clip of their Terms and
Conditions, sub heading Copyrights:
"All right title and interest in individual photographs posted on the
Site will remain the exclusive property of the individual owner of
the applicable photograph, and PhotoPoint claims no copyright or
other proprietary right in these works."
I'll come up with something.
Tom
--- In az_vjc@egroups.com, "William Mish" wrote:
> I has come to my attention that someone in this group has posted a
picture
> of my Jeep on his site without my permission or the permission of
the
> originating site. This person is in violation of copyright laws,
and had
> better get it off his site or further action will be taken. I will
pursue
> all avenues open to me to protect my rights.
>
> Bill Mish
> Yldkat
> 1955 Willys CJ3B
> http://drive.to/yldkat55
12025 From: <JNB4PLS@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 5:59pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 262
Tom:
If you don't find one locally for a reasonable price you might try Quadratec.
I've seen new poly tanks in their catalogue for around $139.00. You can find
them at Quadtratec.com.
John Butler
12026 From: Tom Quinn <tom@q...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 10:19pm
Subject: Re: Copyright violation
Ok, I took a quick stab at some legal mumbo jumbo for the azvjc.org
site, and in general, the AZVJC.
http://www.azvjc.org/legal.htm
Basically I said if you submit it, it's property of azvjc.org and you
cannot copy or link to it without permission from azvjc.org, but you
probably won't get that permission because of the privacy commitment
to it's members.
Now I'm no lawyer, so if you are one or know of one, let me know if
there are any issues with what I threw together. I remember
something came up a long time ago about the responsibility of trip
leaders and what if someone got hurt on a run, etc. I think Doug B.
had written something, but I couldn't find it easily again. Consider
this the first rough draft.
Thanks for bringing this up Bill!
Tom
--- In az_vjc@egroups.com, "William Mish" <yldkat55@h...> wrote:
> Of Course!
> I consented to that voluntarily!
> As a matter of fact, I pursued the AZVJC to get it posted (Jim
Langdon days). I also pursued an update, which was executed.
> However, I do not want my property "displayed" outside the realm of
my control, and certainly NOT WITHOUT MY PERMISSION, or the
permission of the site it was taken from.
> Bill Mish
> Yldkat
> 1955 Willys CJ3B
> http://drive.to/yldkat55
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tom Quinn
> To: az_vjc@egroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 9:24 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Copyright violation
>
>
> Bill - since you bring it up, I want to verify your pic is ok on
the
> azvjc.org member's page. I think it was already there before
Mike
> and I took the site over from Jim, so I can only assume you
submitted
> it yourself. Let me know if not (this goes for everyone!)
>
> You bring up a good point though, we currently have nothing on
the
> AZVJC site that says anything specifically of not copying
pictures
> for any use without written consent. I guess as the size of the
club
> grows we're opening ourselves to more issues and now need some
> written "law" rather than implied.
>
> I personally do not actually know what the implied copyright laws
are
> on the 'net. I think most people feel that all things are public
> domain unless otherwise noted.
>
> I'll work on getting something written for www.azvjc.org. Thanks
for
> bringing it up!
>
> As for PhotoPoint, here is a small clip of their Terms and
> Conditions, sub heading Copyrights:
>
> "All right title and interest in individual photographs posted on
the
> Site will remain the exclusive property of the individual owner
of
> the applicable photograph, and PhotoPoint claims no copyright or
> other proprietary right in these works."
>
> I'll come up with something.
>
> Tom
>
> --- In az_vjc@egroups.com, "William Mish" <yldkat55@h...> wrote:
> > I has come to my attention that someone in this group has
posted a
> picture
> > of my Jeep on his site without my permission or the permission
of
> the
> > originating site. This person is in violation of copyright
laws,
> and had
> > better get it off his site or further action will be taken. I
will
> pursue
> > all avenues open to me to protect my rights.
> >
> > Bill Mish
> > Yldkat
> > 1955 Willys CJ3B
> > http://drive.to/yldkat55
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
12027 From: Jchio - Alloffroad.com <jchio@a...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 10:53pm
Subject: Re: Re: Copyright violation
Tom, I was excepticall about this kind of stuff, but it was until today that we realized 2 websites took pictures from our website (www.Alloffroad.com) without our authorization, we do accept if someone who was in a trail ride want to use the pictures of his rig or some other that was there, to add it to his personal page, or if anyone save tech pictures to share them with their buds, without any purpose of profit, damage or injury to third persons.
One of this websites is www.Jeepfan.com who added one of our Editors on their Readers Jeeps, what got us upset, since they did that without any request or permission.
This could be a lesson for all of us, not only to respect others work but, as Bill Mish as Bill says to protect his rights.
I have some links of the Copyright Law and some reviews that can be usefull, if any of you want some more information, feel free to email me.
Jesus Chio
www.alloffroad.com
Free webpages
http://signup.alloffroad.com
My Eb project
www.alloffroad.com/chio
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Quinn
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 12:19 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Copyright violation
Ok, I took a quick stab at some legal mumbo jumbo for the azvjc.org
site, and in general, the AZVJC.
http://www.azvjc.org/legal.htm
Basically I said if you submit it, it's property of azvjc.org and you
cannot copy or link to it without permission from azvjc.org, but you
probably won't get that permission because of the privacy commitment
to it's members.
Now I'm no lawyer, so if you are one or know of one, let me know if
there are any issues with what I threw together. I remember
something came up a long time ago about the responsibility of trip
leaders and what if someone got hurt on a run, etc. I think Doug B.
had written something, but I couldn't find it easily again. Consider
this the first rough draft.
Thanks for bringing this up Bill!
Tom
12028 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 11:01pm
Subject: Re: Re: Copyright violation
Looks great Tom. Thanks for putting it together!
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Quinn" <tom@q...>
To: <az_vjc@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 10:19 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Copyright violation
> Ok, I took a quick stab at some legal mumbo jumbo for the azvjc.org
> site, and in general, the AZVJC.
>
> http://www.azvjc.org/legal.htm
>
> Basically I said if you submit it, it's property of azvjc.org and you
> cannot copy or link to it without permission from azvjc.org, but you
> probably won't get that permission because of the privacy commitment
> to it's members.
>
> Now I'm no lawyer, so if you are one or know of one, let me know if
> there are any issues with what I threw together. I remember
> something came up a long time ago about the responsibility of trip
> leaders and what if someone got hurt on a run, etc. I think Doug B.
> had written something, but I couldn't find it easily again. Consider
> this the first rough draft.
>
> Thanks for bringing this up Bill!
>
> Tom
>
> --- In az_vjc@egroups.com, "William Mish" <yldkat55@h...> wrote:
> > Of Course!
> > I consented to that voluntarily!
> > As a matter of fact, I pursued the AZVJC to get it posted (Jim
> Langdon days). I also pursued an update, which was executed.
> > However, I do not want my property "displayed" outside the realm of
> my control, and certainly NOT WITHOUT MY PERMISSION, or the
> permission of the site it was taken from.
> > Bill Mish
> > Yldkat
> > 1955 Willys CJ3B
> > http://drive.to/yldkat55
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Tom Quinn
> > To: az_vjc@egroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 9:24 PM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Copyright violation
> >
> >
> > Bill - since you bring it up, I want to verify your pic is ok on
> the
> > azvjc.org member's page. I think it was already there before
> Mike
> > and I took the site over from Jim, so I can only assume you
> submitted
> > it yourself. Let me know if not (this goes for everyone!)
> >
> > You bring up a good point though, we currently have nothing on
> the
> > AZVJC site that says anything specifically of not copying
> pictures
> > for any use without written consent. I guess as the size of the
> club
> > grows we're opening ourselves to more issues and now need some
> > written "law" rather than implied.
> >
> > I personally do not actually know what the implied copyright laws
> are
> > on the 'net. I think most people feel that all things are public
> > domain unless otherwise noted.
> >
> > I'll work on getting something written for www.azvjc.org. Thanks
> for
> > bringing it up!
> >
> > As for PhotoPoint, here is a small clip of their Terms and
> > Conditions, sub heading Copyrights:
> >
> > "All right title and interest in individual photographs posted on
> the
> > Site will remain the exclusive property of the individual owner
> of
> > the applicable photograph, and PhotoPoint claims no copyright or
> > other proprietary right in these works."
> >
> > I'll come up with something.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@egroups.com, "William Mish" <yldkat55@h...> wrote:
> > > I has come to my attention that someone in this group has
> posted a
> > picture
> > > of my Jeep on his site without my permission or the permission
> of
> > the
> > > originating site. This person is in violation of copyright
> laws,
> > and had
> > > better get it off his site or further action will be taken. I
> will
> > pursue
> > > all avenues open to me to protect my rights.
> > >
> > > Bill Mish
> > > Yldkat
> > > 1955 Willys CJ3B
> > > http://drive.to/yldkat55
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
>
>
>
>
>
>
12029 From: Len Sullivan <kermit@e...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 2:15pm
Subject: Re: White Tanks cleanup headcount?
Hi Stu and all
Dave just moved into a new house and is on vacation this week, so his time
on line is kinda spotty. I don't know if trash bags will be provided, so it
would be a safe bet to bring some of your own. I have a big roll left over
from the last Coves Cleanup, so I have some to share if anybody needs some.
For those of you who aren't familiar with the White Tanks area and aren't
sure about finding the Dunes, I'll be at the Love's truck stop at Miller
Road and I-10 sometime around 6:30 to 6:45 or so and would be happy to lead
you in. Just look for the big ugly white J-10 with the bright green
fenderwells.
Len
The Jeeper Formerly Known as Hootus
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
To: david.oboyle@s... <david.oboyle@s...>;
kermit@e... <kermit@e...>; az_vjc@egroups.com
<az_vjc@egroups.com>
Date: Thursday, August 24, 2000 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] White Tanks cleanup headcount?
>David,
>
>Do the participants need to supply their own trash bags or are they being
>provided by State Trust Land??
>
>Thanks.......Stu
>
>
>Stu Olson N7QJP
>Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
>http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
>http://home.off-road.com/~stu
>
12030 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 6:37am
Subject: Re: Fwd: Be warned of Bill Luke Chrysler service
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bill Luke C-P-J
> To: William Mish
> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 5:41 PM
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Fwd: Be warned of Bill Luke Chrysler service
>
> You sent this message to the wrong department. Click on www.billluke.com and find Service Department. By the way, did you know that Mr.
> Chatfield's $38 was refunded by our service department and the check is actually in the mail as this is written?
So, uh, Mr. Chatfield, you get that $38 yet?
How's that for quality conscious?
You think they sent Jeff's money to Mike?
I especially like how the "C-P-J" guys are completely unwilling to give
the Service Departments email address- "Click on www.billluke.com and
find Service Department." How's that for customer service?
Further, does anyone here believe that Jeff had even a slight chance of
getting that money back without these emails going to Bill Luke? What a
sad state of affairs.
Dave Reinken
Owner of six vehicles, including 2 Jeeps (1973 and 1991) and 2 Dodges
(1992 and 2000.)
My 2000 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport was purchased at Performance Dodge,
where I have had good experiences thus far.
12031 From: Leonard K. Pennock <leonardpennock@h...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 6:50am
Subject: Re: [arizonaXJ] Wheel Bearings ?
Somebody on one of these groups, azvjc or azxj, had offered free wheel
bearings to the group. I orginally responed that I wanted them. I
haven't gotten around to picking them up and I can't seem to find the
email address for the person that had them. Sounds like Sean needs them
more than I do so if you still have them could you respond so that Sean
can get them?
Boney XJ Sean wrote:
>
> What is the worst that can happen with bad front wheel bearings? I'm starting to get a little worried about mine; the way they sound, at least the driver side assembly. It's almost as though I have a wire brush stuck against the rotor, or something. Also sounds like I have marbles in my beauty rings. I try not to drive it too much, but have to have transpo for being on-call.Any help is greatly appreciated.Boney
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> arizonaXJ-unsubscribe@egroups.com
--
Leonard K. Pennock
Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure,
find that they very rarely lose or fail.
12032 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 7:08am
Subject: Fw: Trail Dust Days Application
For those interested, attached is a copy of the Tucson Rough Riders Trail
Dust Days application. This is an October event that, from all accounts, is
really great. I know a number from the club are planning on going (it's in
October).
Happy Trails,
Doug
Attachment: (application/pdf) mso3D4.PDF [not stored]
12033 From: Chris R. <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 7:51am
Subject: Re: Fwd: Be warned of Bill Luke Chrysler service
To whom it may concern,
Not sure that statement applies as it is obvious that one persons business
did not matter to your service staff. I am also one of those 300 Jeepers
mentioned and am currently in the market for a new vehicle.
With so many dealerships in the state I have a wide selection and your
treatment of one of our club members has made my decision a very easy one
that your dealership will not be one of them considered when it comes time
to purchase a new vehicle.
I just cannot fathum the stupidity it must have taken for that service
manager to even think about charging him for something the service tech
obviously did during the previous service. It is poor customer service like
this that brings companies down.
I am sure that your company will survive even if everyone one of our members
never shops there, but when your working on commission every customer
counts. Just think of the good press your dealership could have received
you had treated him right and the possible commissions that would have been
involved.
Enjoy yor smaller paycheck as I am sure that $38 does not include much of a
commission.
Chris
http://www.hotstuff.alloffroad.com/
My1stJeep@e...
'97 TJ
----------------------------------------------------
"He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a
fool forever."
On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 12:09:23 -0700, Chatfield, Mike wrote:
> Gentlemen,
>
> Rest assured, I am one of the "300 closest jeeping friends."
> mentioned in the letter below.
>
> Hearing about service like this makes my decisions even easier
> when it comes to shopping for a new or used car or for a service
> department to take my car to if it needs repairs.
>
> I can now scratch Bill Luke off of my goto list.
>
> I hope the $38 diagnostic fee you charged to find a problem your
> service department created while "fixing" this jeep was worth it.
>
> Since I couldn't find an e-mail address for the General Manager online,
> I CC'ed the Internet Sales guys to let them know that their service
> manager is making their job to sell cars more difficult.
>
> - Mike Chatfield
>
> ---------------------- Original Text -------------------------
>
> I just wanted to share my 1st and only experience with Bill Luke
> Chrysler (Camelback and I-17) with 300 of my closest jeeping friends.
>
> I had Bill Luke Chrysler fix a cooling problem on my XJ (they were at
> the right place at the right time). I picked up the vehicle when it
> was done (last Thursday) and on the drive home I noticed right away
> that the air conditioning vents weren't working at all. As it was
> rush hour traffic and I've got a friend with me I drove home hoping
> the problem would fix itself. On Monday I called the dealership and
> explained the problem and and that I was sure it was a result of the
> original work. Tuesday I dropped off the XJ and waited for it to get
> fixed. I was charged a diagnostic fee of $38 to determine that a
> vacuum line was disconnected under the bumper. I explained to the
> Service Advisor that that was a direct result of the original work
> since the vacuum line *had* to be disconnected to remove the radiator
> (they did remove the radiator).
>
> On a side note, I did originally tell the Service Advisor that I
> thought the new problem was a result of the airbag sensor recall
> because they had to remove part of the dash to relocate the sensor.
> I tried to explain to him that this new problem was a result of the
> original work. The Service Advisor said he based his troubleshooting
> (diagnosis of the vacuum system) on that fact and it had nothing to
> do with the airbag recall. Agreed. BTW, diagnosis of the vacuum
> system did lead to finding disconnected vacuum line under the bumper.
>
> So I got charged for diagnosing a problem that was created by
> unfinished original work. Yesterday I got a call from Bill Luke for
> a customer service survey. I explained (nicely) that I was unjustly
> charged for the diagnostic fee and I will never spend another penny
> at Bill Luke either through repairs of my 3 Jeep vehicles or purchase
> a vehicle from them unless I'm reimbursed the diagnostic fee. I also
> explained that I wasn't expecting to get reimbursed, but if I did, I
> would most likely use their services again.
>
> I had a phone conversation with the Service Advisor today (he seemed
> bitter that I gave him a bad survey) and he explained there was
> nothing they would do (I'm sure this situation does happen
> frequently). I again explained that I felt I was unjustly charged
> and they would lose a customer over a $38 charge (I spent $560 on the
> first service charge). He seemed fine with that. After that phone
> conversation, I decided I would tell 300 of my closest AZ jeep
> friends about my Bill Luke experience. The Service Manager has my
> number, although I doubt I'll hear from him/her. It does surprise me
> that a company would lose a customer over a charge this small - they
> have a good chance of recouping that money within the next visit.
> Definitely not now.
>
> All in all, I am frustrated that I can't find a decent dealership to
> do work on my vehicle. Just thought I'd pass along my experience.
> Thanks for letting me rant a little. Maybe I'm way off base here,
> but I don't think quality of service and customer service like this
> should be tolerated.
>
>
> Mike Chatfield
>
__________________________________________________ _____
Say Bye to Slow Internet!
http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html
12034 From: Jeff Meade <jeffm@d...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 7:51am
Subject: Re: please read about Bill Luke
Hey all --
I sent the original post after I had a frustrating conversation with
the service advisor on (he said) the service manager's behalf. I was
under the impression that the service manager wasn't going to call
and Bill Luke wasn't going to resolve this, so I sent the post
explaining the service.
So then I get a call from Service Manager, he hadn't seen or heard
anything about my posting but I did mention my conversation with the
service advisor. He refunded me the $38 because he didn't want to
lose a valued customer and said, although the disconnected vacuum
line might not have been a result of the original work, he would
happily give me not only $38 but more to compensate. That's very
generous. I did, however, ask him to please only send me $38 as I
felt that was acceptable. On his staff's defense, the sales manager
spoke very highly of his staff and especially his sales advisor. To
say the least, he was *very* upset when the internet sales department
(not his department) was innundated with mail about this issue after
it was resolved. I explained to the sales manager that I posted back
to the group about the $38 refund but there were still messages being
sent on the original issue.
This may sound ungrateful, but I feel really bad about the treatment
Bill Luke's staff has gotten as a result of this. The internet sales
staff has nothing to do with this issue yet because they were the
first email address someone was able to find that's the address all
subsequent messages were going. I can't believe that. I do agree
that if the sales manager's email address would have been more easily
found from their website (if at all) the messages would have been
sent to the appropriate address in the first place. I appreciate and
am glad to see the level of support this group gives.
All I can say is please let it drop. The service manager took care
of business professionally and I thank him for that. When I get the
check in the mail he can be rest assured I will spend all of the
money on parts from Bill Luke's parts department.
Sincerely,
Jeff
BTW, is it too early for a beer? :)
--- In az_vjc@egroups.com, Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Bill Luke C-P-J
> > To: William Mish
> > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 5:41 PM
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Fwd: Be warned of Bill Luke Chrysler
service
> >
> > You sent this message to the wrong department. Click on
www.billluke.com and find Service Department. By the way, did you
know that Mr.
> > Chatfield's $38 was refunded by our service department and
the check is actually in the mail as this is written?
>
> So, uh, Mr. Chatfield, you get that $38 yet?
>
> How's that for quality conscious?
>
> You think they sent Jeff's money to Mike?
>
> I especially like how the "C-P-J" guys are completely unwilling to
give
> the Service Departments email address- "Click on www.billluke.com
and
> find Service Department." How's that for customer service?
>
> Further, does anyone here believe that Jeff had even a slight
chance of
> getting that money back without these emails going to Bill Luke?
What a
> sad state of affairs.
>
> Dave Reinken
> Owner of six vehicles, including 2 Jeeps (1973 and 1991) and 2
Dodges
> (1992 and 2000.)
> My 2000 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport was purchased at Performance
Dodge,
> where I have had good experiences thus far.
12035 From: Thomas Jacobson <Tjacobs@I...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 7:58am
Subject: So Many Questions...
Hey gang -
First off, thanks again to all who responded on the gas tank locator. No
luck with anything used or after-market and Darner wants (sit down) $330 for
a new one. Instead, bought 2 packs of the silly putty type, 2-part, gas
tank repair epoxy for $2.14 and applied last night. Will see how my
"permanent band-aid" held up when I get home tonight. What did I have to
lose? If it don't hold, THEN I'll go bust out the credit card!
Now...how difficult is the wheelin at White Tanks tomorrow? If gas tank
still leaks and I can't get the 2nd JAFO seat in my friend's Cherokee, I'm
thinking of driving my S-10 Blazer 4x4. It's not an off road virgin, but I
need to keep it to the Class 2ish stuff.
2nd...a friend also ran Box Canyon earlier this week (Tues) and said it's
really changed after all the rain. Anyone interested in a run thru Box and
Martinez Canyons sometime during the Labor Day weekend? Could also opt for
Lower Woodpecker on the way out (I'll be watching!) or at least try to get
to the Old Mill on Martinez for the more hardcore set.
3rd...will a resident Holley Projection expert contact me off-list?...unless
everyone's interested...I'm wondering about putting the 4bbl, 670cfm unit
(off an AMC 360 V8) on a 258 I6. Or, possibly trade this unit to someone
with the smaller 1bbl (300 cfm) set-up left over from an engine swap or
upgrade. It's complete with computer and O2 loop. I'm corn-fused on this
one...both units supply the same amount of fuel per unit time (2x45 unit vol
injectors in 670cfm vs 1x90 unit vol inj on 300cfm); so what if I had a 4bbl
intake on my 258, then I'd be using the 670cfm unit anyway right?
Muchas Garcias...
Tom
12036 From: Leonard K. Pennock <leonardpennock@h...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 8:02am
Subject: Re: Re: please read about Bill Luke
You should CC Bill Luke so they know you are trying to get the mail
stopped. This way they will realize that once something is placed on
the internet it takes on a life of its own and lives on after correction
is made. This will make them less likely to do the same thing again.
Jeff Meade wrote:
>
> Hey all --
>
> I sent the original post after I had a frustrating conversation with
> the service advisor on (he said) the service manager's behalf. I was
> under the impression that the service manager wasn't going to call
> and Bill Luke wasn't going to resolve this, so I sent the post
> explaining the service.
>
> So then I get a call from Service Manager, he hadn't seen or heard
> anything about my posting but I did mention my conversation with the
> service advisor. He refunded me the $38 because he didn't want to
> lose a valued customer and said, although the disconnected vacuum
> line might not have been a result of the original work, he would
> happily give me not only $38 but more to compensate. That's very
> generous. I did, however, ask him to please only send me $38 as I
> felt that was acceptable. On his staff's defense, the sales manager
> spoke very highly of his staff and especially his sales advisor. To
> say the least, he was *very* upset when the internet sales department
> (not his department) was innundated with mail about this issue after
> it was resolved. I explained to the sales manager that I posted back
> to the group about the $38 refund but there were still messages being
> sent on the original issue.
>
> This may sound ungrateful, but I feel really bad about the treatment
> Bill Luke's staff has gotten as a result of this. The internet sales
> staff has nothing to do with this issue yet because they were the
> first email address someone was able to find that's the address all
> subsequent messages were going. I can't believe that. I do agree
> that if the sales manager's email address would have been more easily
> found from their website (if at all) the messages would have been
> sent to the appropriate address in the first place. I appreciate and
> am glad to see the level of support this group gives.
>
> All I can say is please let it drop. The service manager took care
> of business professionally and I thank him for that. When I get the
> check in the mail he can be rest assured I will spend all of the
> money on parts from Bill Luke's parts department.
>
> Sincerely,
> Jeff
>
> BTW, is it too early for a beer? :)
>
> --- In az_vjc@egroups.com, Daver <daver@c...> wrote:
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Bill Luke C-P-J
> > > To: William Mish
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 5:41 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Fwd: Be warned of Bill Luke Chrysler
> service
> > >
> > > You sent this message to the wrong department. Click on
> www.billluke.com and find Service Department. By the way, did you
> know that Mr.
> > > Chatfield's $38 was refunded by our service department and
> the check is actually in the mail as this is written?
> >
> > So, uh, Mr. Chatfield, you get that $38 yet?
> >
> > How's that for quality conscious?
> >
> > You think they sent Jeff's money to Mike?
> >
> > I especially like how the "C-P-J" guys are completely unwilling to
> give
> > the Service Departments email address- "Click on www.billluke.com
> and
> > find Service Department." How's that for customer service?
> >
> > Further, does anyone here believe that Jeff had even a slight
> chance of
> > getting that money back without these emails going to Bill Luke?
> What a
> > sad state of affairs.
> >
> > Dave Reinken
> > Owner of six vehicles, including 2 Jeeps (1973 and 1991) and 2
> Dodges
> > (1992 and 2000.)
> > My 2000 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport was purchased at Performance
> Dodge,
> > where I have had good experiences thus far.
>
--
Leonard K. Pennock
Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure,
find that they very rarely lose or fail.
12037 From: Leonard K. Pennock <leonardpennock@h...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 8:06am
Subject: Re: So Many Questions...
A 670cfm unit is way to big for a 258. Assuming you want to be able to
run the 258 to 5500rpm you only need a 410CFM carb. For offroad you want
to go smaller as it improves your low rpm drivability.
Thomas Jacobson wrote:
>
> Hey gang -
>
> First off, thanks again to all who responded on the gas tank locator. No
> luck with anything used or after-market and Darner wants (sit down) $330 for
> a new one. Instead, bought 2 packs of the silly putty type, 2-part, gas
> tank repair epoxy for $2.14 and applied last night. Will see how my
> "permanent band-aid" held up when I get home tonight. What did I have to
> lose? If it don't hold, THEN I'll go bust out the credit card!
>
> Now...how difficult is the wheelin at White Tanks tomorrow? If gas tank
> still leaks and I can't get the 2nd JAFO seat in my friend's Cherokee, I'm
> thinking of driving my S-10 Blazer 4x4. It's not an off road virgin, but I
> need to keep it to the Class 2ish stuff.
>
> 2nd...a friend also ran Box Canyon earlier this week (Tues) and said it's
> really changed after all the rain. Anyone interested in a run thru Box and
> Martinez Canyons sometime during the Labor Day weekend? Could also opt for
> Lower Woodpecker on the way out (I'll be watching!) or at least try to get
> to the Old Mill on Martinez for the more hardcore set.
>
> 3rd...will a resident Holley Projection expert contact me off-list?...unless
> everyone's interested...I'm wondering about putting the 4bbl, 670cfm unit
> (off an AMC 360 V8) on a 258 I6. Or, possibly trade this unit to someone
> with the smaller 1bbl (300 cfm) set-up left over from an engine swap or
> upgrade. It's complete with computer and O2 loop. I'm corn-fused on this
> one...both units supply the same amount of fuel per unit time (2x45 unit vol
> injectors in 670cfm vs 1x90 unit vol inj on 300cfm); so what if I had a 4bbl
> intake on my 258, then I'd be using the 670cfm unit anyway right?
>
> Muchas Garcias...
> Tom
>
>
>
--
Leonard K. Pennock
Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure,
find that they very rarely lose or fail.