blooddrive
01-02-2004, 10:25 PM
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11888 From: Jeff Meade <jeffm@d...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 1:07pm
Subject: tips on backflushing '98 XJ coolant system?
Hey all --
It's time to backflush my coolant system on my '98 XJ. Last time I
tried to drain the radiator, I could only get a dribble of fluid out
of the drain because the drain plug is nearly impossible to open due
to the great Chrysler design. Any hints or tips on the easiest way
to drain w/o removing the lower radiator hose?
For that matter, what's the best approach to backflushing my cooling
system? I just replaced the thermistat a month ago. Is there an
easy way to backflush without removing the thermistat? I don't want
to just drain and refill the radiator, but rather replace all fluid
in the block and radiator and heater core (if possible). I was
planning on draining the radiator and refilling with distilled water,
then idling until the thermistat opened and repeat the process until
the fluid from the drain is clean. Sound like a decent approach?
Thanks in advance,
Jeff
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
11889 From: Thomas Jacobson <Tjacobs@I...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 1:29pm
Subject: TR(eport) - Bulldog Canyon
Sorry for the short delay, but I'll give a stab here at a trail report for
last Saturday's run thru Bulldog Canyon...
The first surprise of the day was seeing almost everyone already at Burger
King and darned near ready to go when I got there at just about 7:00 am! I
had totally expected most everyone to be like myself and get there groggily
at 7:00, then get breakfast, make intros, airdown and then leave, in all
likelihood, close to 7:30. I'll know you're a more punctual bunch next
time!
The final attendees were: myself (and wife), Tom Quinn and Jim Florence (and
Storm) in YJ's; John Butler (and kids), Robert Brashears and Rick (hope I
got that name right) in TJ's; Andy Archibald and Andy Zimmerle (and wife,
baby) in XJ's; Tom Dunn (and pooch) in 4-Runner; Ken U. in something with YJ
headlights :) and Eddie Mathews (with Tim Kehoe) in his tubular Willy's
creation...11 vehicles in total!
Actually Andy Z. caught up to us later on the trail...if anyone needs to
know how to fix an XJ B-Pillar, bent from backing out of your garage with
the rear door open, by using a tow strap and a Chevy Tahoe, give him a call!
After clearing out of BK and the short drive to the trailhead, we got all
jeeps thru the gate by about 8:00. The trail was in really good shape after
the recent rains, which not only meant no dust, but had "modified" some of
the inclines and washes, giving the vehicles some chances to stretch out a
bit themselves. Actually, everyone was so well set-up vehicle wise, that I
was worried ya might all be getting bored!
We stopped twice to let those who wanted to play climb some of the hills
that shoot off of the main trail. At the first stop, a big hill shoots off
to the left of the trail. Andy A., Eddie and Robert made it look pretty
easy. Ken had a little fight with traction trying the right hand side, but
got up without much trouble. Then came Tom D. in the 4-Runner! Tom's
attack on the hill was pretty much just that...build speed at the bottom and
don't let up! After running out of traction about 2/3 - 3/4 up, the back-up
lights came on and I figured that was it. Wrong! A little forward motion
again and then more lost traction, only this time he gets the thing
sidehillin! How bad did it look, you ask? We at the bottom thought about
moving our Jeeps...John Butler did. Before anyone could get a strap or
winch out, Tom had the rear end pointed down once again and backed it back
to bottom of the hill...phew! While everyone else creepy-crawlyed down the
hill, Eddie showed how it's done by spooling up the turbo and ACCELERATING
down! For anyone who hasn't seen Eddie's Jeep, it's one sweet ride!
The rest of the trail was uneventful. At the second stop, Eddie, Robert and
Ken did a little hill climbing a made a nice little side hill across the
main trail! Actually looked worse than it was...after tips from Eddie and
Tim and watching Robert and Tom show how to do it, it was a piece of cake.
We continued on to Bush highway and went thru the gate about 10:15am.
Everyone headed over to the river to take a dip and break out the coolers.
What seemed like only 45 min at the river was actually an hour and a
half...I have the sunburn to prove it!
Everyone said "goodbyes" around noon and headed on home to their a/c.
Eddie, Andy Z. and myself decided to head back through the gate, run the
main trail back to the "intersection" and take the branch that leads west to
Ellsworth Rd. This is mostly 2wd, high speed, dirt road, but it is this
Ellsworth fork that leads thru the sandy wash and steep walls of the canyon
where the rock-climbers "hang out".
All in all, I had a GREAT time and hope the rest of you did as well. It was
my first shot at leading, so thanks for the patience. The combos I received
from the forest service cover about 5-6 months, so I'll probably head back
through later this year for another short trip. I look forward to seeing
you all again on future runs...maybe White Tanks this weekend?!?!?!
Tom
BTW, although going to the FS to get the combos is an extra step, the chains
seem to be doing their job. The area outside the gate at the AJ trailhead
is littered with trash, shotgun shells and an abandoned Cadillac. Maybe
the thinking is that if the Caddy gets shot enough times, it will just
disappear. Or maybe it was placed there because the sign marking the trail
was too hard for every hillbilly to shoot...
11890 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 1:39pm
Subject: OX LOCKER
I recall some people on this list being interested in the Ox Trax cable
actuated OX LOCKER.
Testing is complete, expected delivery for the first production run
(D30) is Sept. 25. Price is $549 (damn) !!!
http://www.oxtrax.com/lockers.htm
11891 From: William Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 8:29am
Subject: TR ZJ in Terminator (hopefully for the last time)
Well, this is it, I hope!
Need some Jeeps to tow out the rubble. We got a motor and tranny, a front
end and 2 pieces of the front clip, along with some misc. metal pieces here
and there. This week, I'll be taking the trailer up, Hopefully with Ross'
Jeep on the way up, and with the ZJ on the way back.
Once again, I'll try to be up there first, at 5:00 - 6:00 PM. We'll be at it
most of the night I'm sure, so come when you can if you know where it is,
otherwise, plan on meeting at the parking lot at either 5:30, or 7:00 P.M..
I could use 2 people to help load the trailer. This would not require going
on the trail, for those who have no desire to break something, or just want
to help, but don't feel their Jeep or their skill level is up to being on
the trail.
I'll check on a full size or flatbed 4 wheeler for the motor, If you know of
anyone, please ask them. I would recommend they be short wheelbase pickup 4"
lift and 35" tires along with at least a locker. We should have a winch up
there on one of the vehicles. I will be able to spot them through the trail
if needed. I have had a full size F-350 back there, but that was a good
friend I've spotted many times. Get back to me and let me know if you find
someone willing.
Contrary to what seems to be popular belief, this trail isn't that tough.
All the people who have been breaking have been due for some time. I've run
this trail numerous times without incident. When you run a bunch of hard
core trails, sooner or later you break. 9 times out of 10, it's doing
something easy when everyone is watching! If you haven't seen the trail,
don't be too quick to judge. You may find yourself driving it without
failure.
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
11892 From: Jake Simoneaux <jeepboy50@h...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 3:03pm
Subject: cbr 9292
hey gang! i remember a few days ago seeing someone post an e-mail about a
cbr 929 that they were getting rid of. i erased the e-mail but need to know
who it was cause my freind is looking for that kind of bike.
thanx
jake
99 tj "sparky"
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
11893 From: Jay Eller <jay@t...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 3:50pm
Subject: Re: OX LOCKER
For those that are interested. We will be carrying these as soon as we
can. I'll keep the list updated. I'm hoping to beat that price really big
before the big guys like 4Wheel parts, etc get into the act. Again, I'll
keep everyone posted. $549!!! Yikes!!! But at least there are no air lines
to crack :-))
--
----------------------------
Jay Eller (Hoping/betting on future interest and proliferation of this
locker.)
President
http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
11894 From: Thomas Jacobson <Tjacobs@I...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 4:03pm
Subject: RE: TR(eport) - Bulldog Canyon
Yeah, I just re-read my post and got that impression, too. The tire
spinning on second hill these guys were doing (where the side-hill across
main trail was created) was pretty negligent...especially since it was MY
NAME on the permit! There are several "area closed" signs and fences out
there, but we did not cross any of these. In fact, we talked of looking for
a back way into the river, but those who had been there before said it would
involve crossing a (downed) fence, so we all held to the restrictions and
did not explore that option. I guess whatever point I make that (most of)
the hill climbing was driven responsibly, it was (probably even the first
hill) off the posted trail and even the nicest of wheel tracks still leave
tracks...point well taken.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Luik [mailto:p14175@e...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 2:25 PM
To: Thomas Jacobson
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] TR(eport) - Bulldog Canyon
Uhh.. Tom. The last I heard when you sign up for a permit to access to
Bulldog Canyon you agree to stay on the marked trails that are defined
in the permit agreement. Those side hills are off the designated routes
and; therefore, off limits. One of the goals of limiting the number of
vehicles in the Canyon was to reduce (eliminate?) the usage of those
hill climbs. Bulldog Canyon used to be a free-for-all and the Tonto
Ranger District was on the verge of shutting the area to OHV use
forever. It took a lot of negotiation to make it permit access to
motorized vehicles. Please remember this the next time you decide to
drive this trail.
We (OHV and 4x4 enthusiasts) have a very tenuous grasp on keeping this
trail open now and in the future. Ther are homeowenr groups and
environmental groups are demanding this trail be closed. There is also a
herd of mount goats (sheep?) in the area which makes it even more
sensitive.
Anway, please stay on the designated trails defined on the permit while
in Bulldog Canyon.
Linda
Thomas Jacobson wrote:
>
> Sorry for the short delay, but I'll give a stab here at a trail report for
> last Saturday's run thru Bulldog Canyon...
>
> The first surprise of the day was seeing almost everyone already at Burger
> King and darned near ready to go when I got there at just about 7:00 am!
I
> had totally expected most everyone to be like myself and get there
groggily
> at 7:00, then get breakfast, make intros, airdown and then leave, in all
> likelihood, close to 7:30. I'll know you're a more punctual bunch next
> time!
>
> The final attendees were: myself (and wife), Tom Quinn and Jim Florence
(and
> Storm) in YJ's; John Butler (and kids), Robert Brashears and Rick (hope I
> got that name right) in TJ's; Andy Archibald and Andy Zimmerle (and wife,
> baby) in XJ's; Tom Dunn (and pooch) in 4-Runner; Ken U. in something with
YJ
> headlights :) and Eddie Mathews (with Tim Kehoe) in his tubular Willy's
> creation...11 vehicles in total!
>
> Actually Andy Z. caught up to us later on the trail...if anyone needs to
> know how to fix an XJ B-Pillar, bent from backing out of your garage with
> the rear door open, by using a tow strap and a Chevy Tahoe, give him a
call!
>
> After clearing out of BK and the short drive to the trailhead, we got all
> jeeps thru the gate by about 8:00. The trail was in really good shape
after
> the recent rains, which not only meant no dust, but had "modified" some of
> the inclines and washes, giving the vehicles some chances to stretch out a
> bit themselves. Actually, everyone was so well set-up vehicle wise, that
I
> was worried ya might all be getting bored!
>
> We stopped twice to let those who wanted to play climb some of the hills
> that shoot off of the main trail. At the first stop, a big hill shoots
off
> to the left of the trail. Andy A., Eddie and Robert made it look pretty
> easy. Ken had a little fight with traction trying the right hand side,
but
> got up without much trouble. Then came Tom D. in the 4-Runner! Tom's
> attack on the hill was pretty much just that...build speed at the bottom
and
> don't let up! After running out of traction about 2/3 - 3/4 up, the
back-up
> lights came on and I figured that was it. Wrong! A little forward motion
> again and then more lost traction, only this time he gets the thing
> sidehillin! How bad did it look, you ask? We at the bottom thought about
> moving our Jeeps...John Butler did. Before anyone could get a strap or
> winch out, Tom had the rear end pointed down once again and backed it back
> to bottom of the hill...phew! While everyone else creepy-crawlyed down
the
> hill, Eddie showed how it's done by spooling up the turbo and ACCELERATING
> down! For anyone who hasn't seen Eddie's Jeep, it's one sweet ride!
>
> The rest of the trail was uneventful. At the second stop, Eddie, Robert
and
> Ken did a little hill climbing a made a nice little side hill across the
> main trail! Actually looked worse than it was...after tips from Eddie and
> Tim and watching Robert and Tom show how to do it, it was a piece of cake.
> We continued on to Bush highway and went thru the gate about 10:15am.
> Everyone headed over to the river to take a dip and break out the coolers.
> What seemed like only 45 min at the river was actually an hour and a
> half...I have the sunburn to prove it!
>
> Everyone said "goodbyes" around noon and headed on home to their a/c.
> Eddie, Andy Z. and myself decided to head back through the gate, run the
> main trail back to the "intersection" and take the branch that leads west
to
> Ellsworth Rd. This is mostly 2wd, high speed, dirt road, but it is this
> Ellsworth fork that leads thru the sandy wash and steep walls of the
canyon
> where the rock-climbers "hang out".
>
> All in all, I had a GREAT time and hope the rest of you did as well. It
was
> my first shot at leading, so thanks for the patience. The combos I
received
> from the forest service cover about 5-6 months, so I'll probably head back
> through later this year for another short trip. I look forward to seeing
> you all again on future runs...maybe White Tanks this weekend?!?!?!
>
> Tom
>
> BTW, although going to the FS to get the combos is an extra step, the
chains
> seem to be doing their job. The area outside the gate at the AJ trailhead
> is littered with trash, shotgun shells and an abandoned Cadillac. Maybe
> the thinking is that if the Caddy gets shot enough times, it will just
> disappear. Or maybe it was placed there because the sign marking the
trail
> was too hard for every hillbilly to shoot...
>
>
11895 From: Leonard K. Pennock <leonardpennock@h...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 4:23pm
Subject: Re: OX LOCKER
Post a price once you know what you are selling them for.
Jay Eller wrote:
>
> For those that are interested. We will be carrying these as soon as we
> can. I'll keep the list updated. I'm hoping to beat that price really big
> before the big guys like 4Wheel parts, etc get into the act. Again, I'll
> keep everyone posted. $549!!! Yikes!!! But at least there are no air lines
> to crack :-))
>
> --
> ----------------------------
> Jay Eller (Hoping/betting on future interest and proliferation of this
> locker.)
> President
> http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
>
>
--
Leonard K. Pennock
Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure,
find that they very rarely lose or fail.
11896 From: William Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 4:59pm
Subject: Re: TR ZJ in Terminator (hopefully for the last time)
Forgot to mention, This run is on Friday, 8/25.
Oopps!!
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
----- Original Message -----
From: William Mish
To: AZ_VJC
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 8:29 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] TR ZJ in Terminator (hopefully for the last time)
Well, this is it, I hope!
Need some Jeeps to tow out the rubble. We got a motor and tranny, a front
end and 2 pieces of the front clip, along with some misc. metal pieces here
and there. This week, I'll be taking the trailer up, Hopefully with Ross'
Jeep on the way up, and with the ZJ on the way back.
Once again, I'll try to be up there first, at 5:00 - 6:00 PM. We'll be at it
most of the night I'm sure, so come when you can if you know where it is,
otherwise, plan on meeting at the parking lot at either 5:30, or 7:00 P.M..
I could use 2 people to help load the trailer. This would not require going
on the trail, for those who have no desire to break something, or just want
to help, but don't feel their Jeep or their skill level is up to being on
the trail.
I'll check on a full size or flatbed 4 wheeler for the motor, If you know of
anyone, please ask them. I would recommend they be short wheelbase pickup 4"
lift and 35" tires along with at least a locker. We should have a winch up
there on one of the vehicles. I will be able to spot them through the trail
if needed. I have had a full size F-350 back there, but that was a good
friend I've spotted many times. Get back to me and let me know if you find
someone willing.
Contrary to what seems to be popular belief, this trail isn't that tough.
All the people who have been breaking have been due for some time. I've run
this trail numerous times without incident. When you run a bunch of hard
core trails, sooner or later you break. 9 times out of 10, it's doing
something easy when everyone is watching! If you haven't seen the trail,
don't be too quick to judge. You may find yourself driving it without
failure.
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
11897 From: <flatfenderman@a...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 1:03pm
Subject: Fwd: 9-22-2000 Jawbreaker Night Run
From: Flatfenderman@a...
Full-name: Flatfenderman
Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 19:41:51 EDT
Subject: Fwd: 9-22-2000 Jawbreaker Night Run
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
From: Flatfenderman@a...
Full-name: Flatfenderman
Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 19:35:24 EDT
Subject: Fwd: 9-22-2000 Jawbreaker Night Run
To: az-vjc@e...
From: Flatfenderman@a...
Full-name: Flatfenderman
Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 09:45:51 EDT
Subject: 9-22-2000 Jawbreaker Night Run
To: az_vjc@e...
Members of the Casa Grande Four Wheelers will be leading a run up Jawbreaker
Friday night September 22. This run debuted at last years jamboree, and is
one of Arizona's newest hard-core trails. It is rated at a 4 or 4+, a night
run will surely make it a solid 4+. It is located in the same wash that runs
through Martinez Canyon. Recent rains are rumored to have "modified" some of
the more interesting obstacles. This is not a good trail for spectators as
it would require a lot of walking to get you back to your vehicle. Lockers
and a good lift are required on this one. A meeting place and start time have
not been set yet, it will depend on the number of people attending, however
we would like to be at the trail head by dark. If you are interested in
running this trail with us please let us know so we can start a list. I'd
like to keep it at no more than 15 vehicles.
11898 From: <fourwhlcrzy@a...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 2:23pm
Subject: spicer 18 HELP!
taking my case apart to put into large bore case. I forgot about shift pill
and bolt head was totally buried. broke out casting on the inside. Anyone
have a 18 or even just the shift housing/front output housing? Thanks
daren 52M38
480 987 0767
11899 From: Ralph Williams <ralph@p...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 6:32pm
Subject: Re: Poor engine idle
There is a TSB for a certain year of ZJ that requires
disconnecting the ahh...60 way connector? Just a sec, I will get
it and cut and paste it here.
Here it is:
Here's the full TSB for your reference. I hope this helps.
-----------------
No. 18-16-94
SUBJECT: Erratic Idle, Stall On Hot Restart and/or Low Speed
Deceleration
DATE: Aug. 26, 1994
This bulletin supersedes technical service bulletin 18-09-93
dated 6-25-93, which should be noted in your
files. This revision releases a single Idle Air Control Motor now
available for use in all applications
from 1992 through 1994.
Note: This Bulletin applies to vehicles equipped with a 3.9l,
5.2l., and 5.9l engines.
SYMPTOMS/CONDITIONS:
Erratic idle and idle undershoot, stall on a hot restart and/or
low speed driving on deceleration. These
conditions will most likely occur during warm and hot ambient
temperatures (above 70 degrees F). The condition may be worse
with the A/C on and the compressor running.
DIAGNOSIS:
Using the Mopar Diagnostic System (MDS) or the Scan Tool (DBRII
or III) with appropriate diagnostic
procedure manual verify that all engine/transmission systems are
functioning as designed. If Diagnostic
Troubles Codes (DTC's) are present, record them on the repair
order for future reference, and repair as
necessary.
PARTS REQUIRED:
1 x part# 53030657 Motor, Idle Air Control (IAC)
REPAIR PROCEDURE:
This bulletin involves replacing the IAC Motor with a revised
Motor.
1. With the key in the off position, disconnect the Powertrain
Control Module (PCM) 60 way connector.
This allows the system to re-initialize the Idle Air Control
Motor (IAC).
2. Remove the air cleaner housing and tube assembly.
3. Disconnect electrical connector from the IAC motor.
4. Remove two mounting screws
5. Remove IAC motor and O-ring from the throttle body
6. Install the new IAC motor and O-ring, reversing the above
procedure.
7. Connect the 60-way connector to the PCM
8. Start the vehicle and allow to warm up to normal operating
temperature.
9. With the parking brake applied, let the vehicle idle in drive
for a minimum of 5 minutes with the A/C
off. This allows the PCM to learn the idle position.
TIME ALLOWANCE: 0.3 Hrs.
Don't know if this will help you with your problem. It is worth a
shot tho'. I think you can reset the computer by just
disconnecting the battery for awhile, rather than trying to find
the "60 way" connector.
I would try to find the open circuit also. Even the brake light
switch can mess with the computer and the engine.
Hope this helps,
Ralph
Linda Luik wrote:
>
> Now I'm stumped!
>
> Last week I replaced the idle air control motor and the engine idle with
> the A/C turned on returned to normal. Now it's back to almost stalling.
> I replaced the MAP sensor a week before (it diagnosed outside normal
> running parameters). The TPS checked out fine. The coil was recently
> replaced. The only sensor not working is the speed sensor -- actually
> there's an open in the wiring somewhere. The service manual says it uses
> speed sensor input to determine engine idle and fuel requirements. But
> at idle? When the speedo is reading 0 (zero)? Come on! Any ideas? I
> haven't located the 'open' yet. Getting to the instrument guage
> connector means teraring the dash apart and that isn't a fun job.
>
> Linda
>
11900 From: Dion & Paola <amstaff@e...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 6:26pm
Subject: White Tanks cleanup repost
Reply to: White Tanks cleanup repost
Hi all: If possible, could some repost all the particulars for the White Tanks cleanup this Saturday (time, directions, etc.)? Looks like I'll be able to go after all. Will there be any sort of actual wheeling involved at some point (payoff for the hard labor [grin])? And will there be guides for those of us who have never been there? TIA.
Dion Bozman
94 YJ Sahara
11901 From: <eandkm@u...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 6:18pm
Subject: Re: Re: greenies etc.
Ok bonehead, lets throw punches now.....exactly why I don't like this club anymore. I never said I didnt care about what was going on with land issues, they are important to me. I just think there are many other sites available for this and the virtual club seems to be more about politics going on than getting out in the jeep. Obviously you could use my lamp.
Erin
Devon Whitney wrote:
How much for the lamp?
On second thought, it obviously hasn't illuminated your view of the
world around you so it probably wouldn't do much good for anyone else
either.
SeeeeYaaa..
Devon
1974 CJ-6
a74cj6@aol.com
www.5pillars.com/ucan2
www.homestead.com/a74cj6
--- In az_vjc@egroups.com, wrote:
> Your right Travis, I'm sticking with the xj list from now
> on, this club has lost it's direction and humor. Good bye,
> fellow jeepers, yes I said "JEEP".
> Oh, by the way I have a lamp for sale, is it ok to waste
> space on here and post it?? After all just hit "delete" if
> you don't like it.........................
> Erin
>
> az cattledogg wrote:
>
> >
> > You aint the only one Erin.It is getting out of conrol
> > around hear,I think I
> > may just stay with the XJ list for awhile.
> >
> > >From:
> > >Reply-To: eandkm@u...
> > >To: "Chatfield, Mike"
> > >CC: "'az_vjc@egroups.com'"
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] RE: greenies etc.
> > >Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:13:00 -0700
> > >
> > >God damn, you guys on this list are out of control. When
> > I
> > >joined this club there was talk of jeeps and jeeping fun.
> > I
> > >know these issues are important to our future of wheelin
> > >blah blah blah.........Way to much politics here, such a
> > >shame. I'm not sure I want to stay with this group
> > anymore.
> > >Erin
> > >
> > >"Chatfield, Mike" wrote:
> > >
> > > > Sorry this isn't meant to be a flame, but it is gonna
> > > > sting a little.
> > > >
> > > > "Every time we talk about staying on the trails and
> > > > publicly rip into
> > > > someone for getting off the trail and tearing up the
> > land
> > > > we exhibit a bit
> > > > of the greenies in all of us."
> > > >
> > > > Part of our responsibility as OHV owners and Public
> > Land
> > > > Users is to educate
> > > > those new to our sport; this may include tactfully
> > > > "ripping" into someone
> > > > about proper land use. If we stand by and watch as
> > they
> > > > drive off the trail
> > > > and tear up the side of a hill they have no business
> > > > climbing in the first
> > > > place, then we are just as guilty as they are. Proper
> > > > education of OHV users
> > > > should be the foundation of our fight against the
> > > > EcoTerrorists.
> > > >
> > > > "Everyone knows for a fact that you can't let one
> > apple
> > > > spoil the bunch.
> > > > There are some crazies and sane people in every cause.
> > I
> > > > personally feel
> > > > that there needs to be some land closings. I have not
> > been
> > > > on one trail when
> > > > due to the bad apples there has been beer cans and
> > shotgun
> > > > shells
> > > > everywhere. We can't prevent everyone from littering
> > so
> > > > for awhile the only
> > > > solution may be to keep people off."
> > > >
> > > > First you say that you can't let one bad apple spoil
> > the
> > > > bunch, and then you
> > > > say roads should be closed to prevent those idiots
> > from
> > > > littering up the
> > > > countryside. One thing you have to realize is just
> > because
> > > > the roads are
> > > > "closed" doesn't mean that these idiots are going to
> > stop
> > > > their behavior;
> > > > they're still going to drive out there (or somewhere)
> > and
> > > > drink their beer
> > > > and litter up the place. The only thing you've
> > > > accomplished is closing the
> > > > trail to families who have a legitimate right to be
> > there.
> > > > In addition, it
> > > > is usually areas with relatively easy access that have
> > the
> > > > most trash. In
> > > > other words it's not OHV users that are doing this; it
> > is
> > > > idiots from the
> > > > city out in their mom's car, coming out to drink in
> > the
> > > > middle of nowhere so
> > > > they don't get caught because they are underage. Also
> > > > closing trails will
> > > > only increase traffic on the existing trails; then the
> >
> > > > Greenies will want to
> > > > close those trails because of all the damage being
> > done.
> > > > Soon you'll ask
> > > > someone if they've 4 wheeled in Arizona and they'll
> > say
> > > > "yea, I did all 4
> > > > trails in that state."
> > > >
> > > > "If left to human actions this whole state would be
> > > > overrun with abandoned
> > > > shot-gunned vehicles, beer cans and vandalized cacti.
> > Not
> > > > pretty. There
> > > > would be no discipline."
> > > >
> > > > If left to HUMAN actions? I'd hesitate to call the
> > morons
> > > > who leave this
> > > > kind of trash humans. If left to HUMANS, like everyone
> >
> > > > I've met from AZVJC
> > > > on the trails there would be no need for "clean-ups"
> > > > because we pack out
> > > > what we pack in. We take it upon ourselves to clean up
> > the
> > > > 50+ years of
> > > > trash build up in the desert because we care enough
> > about
> > > > our land to use it
> > > > responsibly and do what we need to keep it open for
> > our
> > > > children's children.
> > > >
> > > > "We have a ton of nice trails open and available. I
> > think
> > > > this state has
> > > > room to set some land aside and preserve it."
> > > >
> > > > The state has set a lot of land aside; all of the land
> >
> > > > between trails is off
> > > > limits to us. Not to mention places where wilderness
> > areas
> > > > have been
> > > > declared, closing existing roads and trails. There is
> > a
> > > > lot of land out
> > > > there without a single tire track on it. There are
> > places
> > > > where humans have
> > > > not stepped foot for hundreds of years, if ever.
> > Existing
> > > > roads and trails
> > > > do not need to be closed to preserve the land.
> > > >
> > > > "Also because we have an opposing thumb doesn't mean
> > we
> > > > have the right to
> > > > squash the owl's. This land isn't ours and our Jeeps
> > > > alone."
> > > >
> > > > No the land doesn't belong to OHV, it belongs to
> > Ranchers,
> > > > Hunters, Hikers,
> > > > Bikers, Plants, Animals, Insects, Spiders, etc... When
> >
> > > > there is a valid
> > > > endangered species that needs protection, I don't have
> > any
> > > > problem with
> > > > that. However I do have a problem with EcoTerrorists
> > > > trying to invent
> > > > species. Geographical location does not make a new
> > species
> > > > (as with the
> > > > spotted pigmy owl), skin blemishes and discolored hair
> >
> > > > does not make a new
> > > > species, yet EcoTerrorists will swear up and down that
> >
> > > > these are new species
> > > > because of these differences. If this were the case,
> > then
> > > > there would be
> > > > thousands of species of "Human."
> > > >
> > > > My 2.5 cents worth,
> > > >
> > > > - Mike
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
__________________________________________________ ____________________
_
> >
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> > http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> >
Attachment: (image/gif) C:\windows\TEMP\nsmailAA.gif [not stored]
11902 From: <eandkm@u...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 6:25pm
Subject: Re: RE: greenies etc.
Ok, I see nobody gets my point. I am VERY well aware of whats going on out
there with my land, but lately it seems there's less and less wheeling and more
and more whining about what politicians are doing to close that land. I enjoy
wheeling with this club and have met some great people, but my delete key is
worn out! Sorry to offend any of you, I don't mean it except for that one
bonehead....maybe it's just the heat and lack of runs lately because of it.. Ok,
sorry I apologize to all.............
Erin
"Chris R." wrote:
> Erin,
>
> I am sorry you feel that way. However if we do not fight the good fight and
> present a united front how do you propose we keep the lands open? If they
> close the lands what alternatives can you give us?
>
> Yes several of us have blown off steam directed at the "greenies", knowing
> we have an ear here that cares. With around 300 members if everyone posted
> something that would be alot of posts, and knowing everyone has an opinion
> that could happen.
>
> I don't know where else you would like this information to get to us. To me
> approaching the clubs with updates and sometimes blowing off steam makes
> clubs the palce to do it. They are the ones that will be affected by it. I
> personnaly would not belong to any club that did not want to ge envolved to
> preserve our rights.
>
> If this is truly not the club for you I am sorry, I hate to see anyone want
> to leave. I also know you cannot make everyone happy and I hope this has
> not upset you more, but there is always room for additional clubs, maybe for
> those who don't want to get envolved someone could start up the Ostrich
> Off-Road Club, Drivers with their heads in the sand on land issues. Just a
> thought.
>
> Good luck whatever your decision.
>
> Chris
> http://www.hotstuff.alloffroad.com/
> My1stJeep@e...
> '97 TJ
> ----------------------------------------------------
> "He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a
> fool forever."
>
> On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:13:00 -0700, eandkm@u... wrote:
>
> >
> > << File Attachment Removed: "text/html; charset=us-ascii" >>
> >
> > << File Attachment Removed: "image/gif" >>
>
> __________________________________________________ _____
> Say Bye to Slow Internet!
> http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html
11903 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 6:50pm
Subject: Re: Re: greenies etc.
For a club that generally has been averaging at least 1 trail run a week, I'm not sure I understand your comment...but clearly, we're not for everyone. There are many good clubs out there, so hopefully you'll find a good match.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: eandkm@uswest.net
To: Devon Whitney
Cc: az_vjc@egroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: greenies etc.
Ok bonehead, lets throw punches now.....exactly why I don't like this club anymore. I never said I didnt care about what was going on with land issues, they are important to me. I just think there are many other sites available for this and the virtual club seems to be more about politics going on than getting out in the jeep. Obviously you could use my lamp.
Erin
Devon Whitney wrote:
How much for the lamp?
On second thought, it obviously hasn't illuminated your view of the
world around you so it probably wouldn't do much good for anyone else
either.
SeeeeYaaa..
Devon
1974 CJ-6
a74cj6@aol.com
www.5pillars.com/ucan2
www.homestead.com/a74cj6
--- In az_vjc@egroups.com, wrote:
> Your right Travis, I'm sticking with the xj list from now
> on, this club has lost it's direction and humor. Good bye,
> fellow jeepers, yes I said "JEEP".
> Oh, by the way I have a lamp for sale, is it ok to waste
> space on here and post it?? After all just hit "delete" if
> you don't like it.........................
> Erin
>
> az cattledogg wrote:
>
> >
> > You aint the only one Erin.It is getting out of conrol
> > around hear,I think I
> > may just stay with the XJ list for awhile.
> >
> > >From:
> > >Reply-To: eandkm@u...
> > >To: "Chatfield, Mike"
> > >CC: "'az_vjc@egroups.com'"
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] RE: greenies etc.
> > >Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:13:00 -0700
> > >
> > >God damn, you guys on this list are out of control. When
> > I
> > >joined this club there was talk of jeeps and jeeping fun.
> > I
> > >know these issues are important to our future of wheelin
> > >blah blah blah.........Way to much politics here, such a
> > >shame. I'm not sure I want to stay with this group
> > anymore.
> > >Erin
> > >
> > >"Chatfield, Mike" wrote:
> > >
> > > > Sorry this isn't meant to be a flame, but it is gonna
> > > > sting a little.
> > > >
> > > > "Every time we talk about staying on the trails and
> > > > publicly rip into
> > > > someone for getting off the trail and tearing up the
> > land
> > > > we exhibit a bit
> > > > of the greenies in all of us."
> > > >
> > > > Part of our responsibility as OHV owners and Public
> > Land
> > > > Users is to educate
> > > > those new to our sport; this may include tactfully
> > > > "ripping" into someone
> > > > about proper land use. If we stand by and watch as
> > they
> > > > drive off the trail
> > > > and tear up the side of a hill they have no business
> > > > climbing in the first
> > > > place, then we are just as guilty as they are. Proper
> > > > education of OHV users
> > > > should be the foundation of our fight against the
> > > > EcoTerrorists.
> > > >
> > > > "Everyone knows for a fact that you can't let one
> > apple
> > > > spoil the bunch.
> > > > There are some crazies and sane people in every cause.
> > I
> > > > personally f
11888 From: Jeff Meade <jeffm@d...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 1:07pm
Subject: tips on backflushing '98 XJ coolant system?
Hey all --
It's time to backflush my coolant system on my '98 XJ. Last time I
tried to drain the radiator, I could only get a dribble of fluid out
of the drain because the drain plug is nearly impossible to open due
to the great Chrysler design. Any hints or tips on the easiest way
to drain w/o removing the lower radiator hose?
For that matter, what's the best approach to backflushing my cooling
system? I just replaced the thermistat a month ago. Is there an
easy way to backflush without removing the thermistat? I don't want
to just drain and refill the radiator, but rather replace all fluid
in the block and radiator and heater core (if possible). I was
planning on draining the radiator and refilling with distilled water,
then idling until the thermistat opened and repeat the process until
the fluid from the drain is clean. Sound like a decent approach?
Thanks in advance,
Jeff
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
11889 From: Thomas Jacobson <Tjacobs@I...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 1:29pm
Subject: TR(eport) - Bulldog Canyon
Sorry for the short delay, but I'll give a stab here at a trail report for
last Saturday's run thru Bulldog Canyon...
The first surprise of the day was seeing almost everyone already at Burger
King and darned near ready to go when I got there at just about 7:00 am! I
had totally expected most everyone to be like myself and get there groggily
at 7:00, then get breakfast, make intros, airdown and then leave, in all
likelihood, close to 7:30. I'll know you're a more punctual bunch next
time!
The final attendees were: myself (and wife), Tom Quinn and Jim Florence (and
Storm) in YJ's; John Butler (and kids), Robert Brashears and Rick (hope I
got that name right) in TJ's; Andy Archibald and Andy Zimmerle (and wife,
baby) in XJ's; Tom Dunn (and pooch) in 4-Runner; Ken U. in something with YJ
headlights :) and Eddie Mathews (with Tim Kehoe) in his tubular Willy's
creation...11 vehicles in total!
Actually Andy Z. caught up to us later on the trail...if anyone needs to
know how to fix an XJ B-Pillar, bent from backing out of your garage with
the rear door open, by using a tow strap and a Chevy Tahoe, give him a call!
After clearing out of BK and the short drive to the trailhead, we got all
jeeps thru the gate by about 8:00. The trail was in really good shape after
the recent rains, which not only meant no dust, but had "modified" some of
the inclines and washes, giving the vehicles some chances to stretch out a
bit themselves. Actually, everyone was so well set-up vehicle wise, that I
was worried ya might all be getting bored!
We stopped twice to let those who wanted to play climb some of the hills
that shoot off of the main trail. At the first stop, a big hill shoots off
to the left of the trail. Andy A., Eddie and Robert made it look pretty
easy. Ken had a little fight with traction trying the right hand side, but
got up without much trouble. Then came Tom D. in the 4-Runner! Tom's
attack on the hill was pretty much just that...build speed at the bottom and
don't let up! After running out of traction about 2/3 - 3/4 up, the back-up
lights came on and I figured that was it. Wrong! A little forward motion
again and then more lost traction, only this time he gets the thing
sidehillin! How bad did it look, you ask? We at the bottom thought about
moving our Jeeps...John Butler did. Before anyone could get a strap or
winch out, Tom had the rear end pointed down once again and backed it back
to bottom of the hill...phew! While everyone else creepy-crawlyed down the
hill, Eddie showed how it's done by spooling up the turbo and ACCELERATING
down! For anyone who hasn't seen Eddie's Jeep, it's one sweet ride!
The rest of the trail was uneventful. At the second stop, Eddie, Robert and
Ken did a little hill climbing a made a nice little side hill across the
main trail! Actually looked worse than it was...after tips from Eddie and
Tim and watching Robert and Tom show how to do it, it was a piece of cake.
We continued on to Bush highway and went thru the gate about 10:15am.
Everyone headed over to the river to take a dip and break out the coolers.
What seemed like only 45 min at the river was actually an hour and a
half...I have the sunburn to prove it!
Everyone said "goodbyes" around noon and headed on home to their a/c.
Eddie, Andy Z. and myself decided to head back through the gate, run the
main trail back to the "intersection" and take the branch that leads west to
Ellsworth Rd. This is mostly 2wd, high speed, dirt road, but it is this
Ellsworth fork that leads thru the sandy wash and steep walls of the canyon
where the rock-climbers "hang out".
All in all, I had a GREAT time and hope the rest of you did as well. It was
my first shot at leading, so thanks for the patience. The combos I received
from the forest service cover about 5-6 months, so I'll probably head back
through later this year for another short trip. I look forward to seeing
you all again on future runs...maybe White Tanks this weekend?!?!?!
Tom
BTW, although going to the FS to get the combos is an extra step, the chains
seem to be doing their job. The area outside the gate at the AJ trailhead
is littered with trash, shotgun shells and an abandoned Cadillac. Maybe
the thinking is that if the Caddy gets shot enough times, it will just
disappear. Or maybe it was placed there because the sign marking the trail
was too hard for every hillbilly to shoot...
11890 From: Daver <daver@c...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 1:39pm
Subject: OX LOCKER
I recall some people on this list being interested in the Ox Trax cable
actuated OX LOCKER.
Testing is complete, expected delivery for the first production run
(D30) is Sept. 25. Price is $549 (damn) !!!
http://www.oxtrax.com/lockers.htm
11891 From: William Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 8:29am
Subject: TR ZJ in Terminator (hopefully for the last time)
Well, this is it, I hope!
Need some Jeeps to tow out the rubble. We got a motor and tranny, a front
end and 2 pieces of the front clip, along with some misc. metal pieces here
and there. This week, I'll be taking the trailer up, Hopefully with Ross'
Jeep on the way up, and with the ZJ on the way back.
Once again, I'll try to be up there first, at 5:00 - 6:00 PM. We'll be at it
most of the night I'm sure, so come when you can if you know where it is,
otherwise, plan on meeting at the parking lot at either 5:30, or 7:00 P.M..
I could use 2 people to help load the trailer. This would not require going
on the trail, for those who have no desire to break something, or just want
to help, but don't feel their Jeep or their skill level is up to being on
the trail.
I'll check on a full size or flatbed 4 wheeler for the motor, If you know of
anyone, please ask them. I would recommend they be short wheelbase pickup 4"
lift and 35" tires along with at least a locker. We should have a winch up
there on one of the vehicles. I will be able to spot them through the trail
if needed. I have had a full size F-350 back there, but that was a good
friend I've spotted many times. Get back to me and let me know if you find
someone willing.
Contrary to what seems to be popular belief, this trail isn't that tough.
All the people who have been breaking have been due for some time. I've run
this trail numerous times without incident. When you run a bunch of hard
core trails, sooner or later you break. 9 times out of 10, it's doing
something easy when everyone is watching! If you haven't seen the trail,
don't be too quick to judge. You may find yourself driving it without
failure.
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
11892 From: Jake Simoneaux <jeepboy50@h...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 3:03pm
Subject: cbr 9292
hey gang! i remember a few days ago seeing someone post an e-mail about a
cbr 929 that they were getting rid of. i erased the e-mail but need to know
who it was cause my freind is looking for that kind of bike.
thanx
jake
99 tj "sparky"
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
11893 From: Jay Eller <jay@t...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 3:50pm
Subject: Re: OX LOCKER
For those that are interested. We will be carrying these as soon as we
can. I'll keep the list updated. I'm hoping to beat that price really big
before the big guys like 4Wheel parts, etc get into the act. Again, I'll
keep everyone posted. $549!!! Yikes!!! But at least there are no air lines
to crack :-))
--
----------------------------
Jay Eller (Hoping/betting on future interest and proliferation of this
locker.)
President
http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
11894 From: Thomas Jacobson <Tjacobs@I...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 4:03pm
Subject: RE: TR(eport) - Bulldog Canyon
Yeah, I just re-read my post and got that impression, too. The tire
spinning on second hill these guys were doing (where the side-hill across
main trail was created) was pretty negligent...especially since it was MY
NAME on the permit! There are several "area closed" signs and fences out
there, but we did not cross any of these. In fact, we talked of looking for
a back way into the river, but those who had been there before said it would
involve crossing a (downed) fence, so we all held to the restrictions and
did not explore that option. I guess whatever point I make that (most of)
the hill climbing was driven responsibly, it was (probably even the first
hill) off the posted trail and even the nicest of wheel tracks still leave
tracks...point well taken.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Luik [mailto:p14175@e...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 2:25 PM
To: Thomas Jacobson
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] TR(eport) - Bulldog Canyon
Uhh.. Tom. The last I heard when you sign up for a permit to access to
Bulldog Canyon you agree to stay on the marked trails that are defined
in the permit agreement. Those side hills are off the designated routes
and; therefore, off limits. One of the goals of limiting the number of
vehicles in the Canyon was to reduce (eliminate?) the usage of those
hill climbs. Bulldog Canyon used to be a free-for-all and the Tonto
Ranger District was on the verge of shutting the area to OHV use
forever. It took a lot of negotiation to make it permit access to
motorized vehicles. Please remember this the next time you decide to
drive this trail.
We (OHV and 4x4 enthusiasts) have a very tenuous grasp on keeping this
trail open now and in the future. Ther are homeowenr groups and
environmental groups are demanding this trail be closed. There is also a
herd of mount goats (sheep?) in the area which makes it even more
sensitive.
Anway, please stay on the designated trails defined on the permit while
in Bulldog Canyon.
Linda
Thomas Jacobson wrote:
>
> Sorry for the short delay, but I'll give a stab here at a trail report for
> last Saturday's run thru Bulldog Canyon...
>
> The first surprise of the day was seeing almost everyone already at Burger
> King and darned near ready to go when I got there at just about 7:00 am!
I
> had totally expected most everyone to be like myself and get there
groggily
> at 7:00, then get breakfast, make intros, airdown and then leave, in all
> likelihood, close to 7:30. I'll know you're a more punctual bunch next
> time!
>
> The final attendees were: myself (and wife), Tom Quinn and Jim Florence
(and
> Storm) in YJ's; John Butler (and kids), Robert Brashears and Rick (hope I
> got that name right) in TJ's; Andy Archibald and Andy Zimmerle (and wife,
> baby) in XJ's; Tom Dunn (and pooch) in 4-Runner; Ken U. in something with
YJ
> headlights :) and Eddie Mathews (with Tim Kehoe) in his tubular Willy's
> creation...11 vehicles in total!
>
> Actually Andy Z. caught up to us later on the trail...if anyone needs to
> know how to fix an XJ B-Pillar, bent from backing out of your garage with
> the rear door open, by using a tow strap and a Chevy Tahoe, give him a
call!
>
> After clearing out of BK and the short drive to the trailhead, we got all
> jeeps thru the gate by about 8:00. The trail was in really good shape
after
> the recent rains, which not only meant no dust, but had "modified" some of
> the inclines and washes, giving the vehicles some chances to stretch out a
> bit themselves. Actually, everyone was so well set-up vehicle wise, that
I
> was worried ya might all be getting bored!
>
> We stopped twice to let those who wanted to play climb some of the hills
> that shoot off of the main trail. At the first stop, a big hill shoots
off
> to the left of the trail. Andy A., Eddie and Robert made it look pretty
> easy. Ken had a little fight with traction trying the right hand side,
but
> got up without much trouble. Then came Tom D. in the 4-Runner! Tom's
> attack on the hill was pretty much just that...build speed at the bottom
and
> don't let up! After running out of traction about 2/3 - 3/4 up, the
back-up
> lights came on and I figured that was it. Wrong! A little forward motion
> again and then more lost traction, only this time he gets the thing
> sidehillin! How bad did it look, you ask? We at the bottom thought about
> moving our Jeeps...John Butler did. Before anyone could get a strap or
> winch out, Tom had the rear end pointed down once again and backed it back
> to bottom of the hill...phew! While everyone else creepy-crawlyed down
the
> hill, Eddie showed how it's done by spooling up the turbo and ACCELERATING
> down! For anyone who hasn't seen Eddie's Jeep, it's one sweet ride!
>
> The rest of the trail was uneventful. At the second stop, Eddie, Robert
and
> Ken did a little hill climbing a made a nice little side hill across the
> main trail! Actually looked worse than it was...after tips from Eddie and
> Tim and watching Robert and Tom show how to do it, it was a piece of cake.
> We continued on to Bush highway and went thru the gate about 10:15am.
> Everyone headed over to the river to take a dip and break out the coolers.
> What seemed like only 45 min at the river was actually an hour and a
> half...I have the sunburn to prove it!
>
> Everyone said "goodbyes" around noon and headed on home to their a/c.
> Eddie, Andy Z. and myself decided to head back through the gate, run the
> main trail back to the "intersection" and take the branch that leads west
to
> Ellsworth Rd. This is mostly 2wd, high speed, dirt road, but it is this
> Ellsworth fork that leads thru the sandy wash and steep walls of the
canyon
> where the rock-climbers "hang out".
>
> All in all, I had a GREAT time and hope the rest of you did as well. It
was
> my first shot at leading, so thanks for the patience. The combos I
received
> from the forest service cover about 5-6 months, so I'll probably head back
> through later this year for another short trip. I look forward to seeing
> you all again on future runs...maybe White Tanks this weekend?!?!?!
>
> Tom
>
> BTW, although going to the FS to get the combos is an extra step, the
chains
> seem to be doing their job. The area outside the gate at the AJ trailhead
> is littered with trash, shotgun shells and an abandoned Cadillac. Maybe
> the thinking is that if the Caddy gets shot enough times, it will just
> disappear. Or maybe it was placed there because the sign marking the
trail
> was too hard for every hillbilly to shoot...
>
>
11895 From: Leonard K. Pennock <leonardpennock@h...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 4:23pm
Subject: Re: OX LOCKER
Post a price once you know what you are selling them for.
Jay Eller wrote:
>
> For those that are interested. We will be carrying these as soon as we
> can. I'll keep the list updated. I'm hoping to beat that price really big
> before the big guys like 4Wheel parts, etc get into the act. Again, I'll
> keep everyone posted. $549!!! Yikes!!! But at least there are no air lines
> to crack :-))
>
> --
> ----------------------------
> Jay Eller (Hoping/betting on future interest and proliferation of this
> locker.)
> President
> http://www.toyboxoffroad.com
>
>
--
Leonard K. Pennock
Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure,
find that they very rarely lose or fail.
11896 From: William Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 4:59pm
Subject: Re: TR ZJ in Terminator (hopefully for the last time)
Forgot to mention, This run is on Friday, 8/25.
Oopps!!
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
----- Original Message -----
From: William Mish
To: AZ_VJC
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 8:29 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] TR ZJ in Terminator (hopefully for the last time)
Well, this is it, I hope!
Need some Jeeps to tow out the rubble. We got a motor and tranny, a front
end and 2 pieces of the front clip, along with some misc. metal pieces here
and there. This week, I'll be taking the trailer up, Hopefully with Ross'
Jeep on the way up, and with the ZJ on the way back.
Once again, I'll try to be up there first, at 5:00 - 6:00 PM. We'll be at it
most of the night I'm sure, so come when you can if you know where it is,
otherwise, plan on meeting at the parking lot at either 5:30, or 7:00 P.M..
I could use 2 people to help load the trailer. This would not require going
on the trail, for those who have no desire to break something, or just want
to help, but don't feel their Jeep or their skill level is up to being on
the trail.
I'll check on a full size or flatbed 4 wheeler for the motor, If you know of
anyone, please ask them. I would recommend they be short wheelbase pickup 4"
lift and 35" tires along with at least a locker. We should have a winch up
there on one of the vehicles. I will be able to spot them through the trail
if needed. I have had a full size F-350 back there, but that was a good
friend I've spotted many times. Get back to me and let me know if you find
someone willing.
Contrary to what seems to be popular belief, this trail isn't that tough.
All the people who have been breaking have been due for some time. I've run
this trail numerous times without incident. When you run a bunch of hard
core trails, sooner or later you break. 9 times out of 10, it's doing
something easy when everyone is watching! If you haven't seen the trail,
don't be too quick to judge. You may find yourself driving it without
failure.
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
11897 From: <flatfenderman@a...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 1:03pm
Subject: Fwd: 9-22-2000 Jawbreaker Night Run
From: Flatfenderman@a...
Full-name: Flatfenderman
Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 19:41:51 EDT
Subject: Fwd: 9-22-2000 Jawbreaker Night Run
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
From: Flatfenderman@a...
Full-name: Flatfenderman
Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 19:35:24 EDT
Subject: Fwd: 9-22-2000 Jawbreaker Night Run
To: az-vjc@e...
From: Flatfenderman@a...
Full-name: Flatfenderman
Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 09:45:51 EDT
Subject: 9-22-2000 Jawbreaker Night Run
To: az_vjc@e...
Members of the Casa Grande Four Wheelers will be leading a run up Jawbreaker
Friday night September 22. This run debuted at last years jamboree, and is
one of Arizona's newest hard-core trails. It is rated at a 4 or 4+, a night
run will surely make it a solid 4+. It is located in the same wash that runs
through Martinez Canyon. Recent rains are rumored to have "modified" some of
the more interesting obstacles. This is not a good trail for spectators as
it would require a lot of walking to get you back to your vehicle. Lockers
and a good lift are required on this one. A meeting place and start time have
not been set yet, it will depend on the number of people attending, however
we would like to be at the trail head by dark. If you are interested in
running this trail with us please let us know so we can start a list. I'd
like to keep it at no more than 15 vehicles.
11898 From: <fourwhlcrzy@a...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 2:23pm
Subject: spicer 18 HELP!
taking my case apart to put into large bore case. I forgot about shift pill
and bolt head was totally buried. broke out casting on the inside. Anyone
have a 18 or even just the shift housing/front output housing? Thanks
daren 52M38
480 987 0767
11899 From: Ralph Williams <ralph@p...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 6:32pm
Subject: Re: Poor engine idle
There is a TSB for a certain year of ZJ that requires
disconnecting the ahh...60 way connector? Just a sec, I will get
it and cut and paste it here.
Here it is:
Here's the full TSB for your reference. I hope this helps.
-----------------
No. 18-16-94
SUBJECT: Erratic Idle, Stall On Hot Restart and/or Low Speed
Deceleration
DATE: Aug. 26, 1994
This bulletin supersedes technical service bulletin 18-09-93
dated 6-25-93, which should be noted in your
files. This revision releases a single Idle Air Control Motor now
available for use in all applications
from 1992 through 1994.
Note: This Bulletin applies to vehicles equipped with a 3.9l,
5.2l., and 5.9l engines.
SYMPTOMS/CONDITIONS:
Erratic idle and idle undershoot, stall on a hot restart and/or
low speed driving on deceleration. These
conditions will most likely occur during warm and hot ambient
temperatures (above 70 degrees F). The condition may be worse
with the A/C on and the compressor running.
DIAGNOSIS:
Using the Mopar Diagnostic System (MDS) or the Scan Tool (DBRII
or III) with appropriate diagnostic
procedure manual verify that all engine/transmission systems are
functioning as designed. If Diagnostic
Troubles Codes (DTC's) are present, record them on the repair
order for future reference, and repair as
necessary.
PARTS REQUIRED:
1 x part# 53030657 Motor, Idle Air Control (IAC)
REPAIR PROCEDURE:
This bulletin involves replacing the IAC Motor with a revised
Motor.
1. With the key in the off position, disconnect the Powertrain
Control Module (PCM) 60 way connector.
This allows the system to re-initialize the Idle Air Control
Motor (IAC).
2. Remove the air cleaner housing and tube assembly.
3. Disconnect electrical connector from the IAC motor.
4. Remove two mounting screws
5. Remove IAC motor and O-ring from the throttle body
6. Install the new IAC motor and O-ring, reversing the above
procedure.
7. Connect the 60-way connector to the PCM
8. Start the vehicle and allow to warm up to normal operating
temperature.
9. With the parking brake applied, let the vehicle idle in drive
for a minimum of 5 minutes with the A/C
off. This allows the PCM to learn the idle position.
TIME ALLOWANCE: 0.3 Hrs.
Don't know if this will help you with your problem. It is worth a
shot tho'. I think you can reset the computer by just
disconnecting the battery for awhile, rather than trying to find
the "60 way" connector.
I would try to find the open circuit also. Even the brake light
switch can mess with the computer and the engine.
Hope this helps,
Ralph
Linda Luik wrote:
>
> Now I'm stumped!
>
> Last week I replaced the idle air control motor and the engine idle with
> the A/C turned on returned to normal. Now it's back to almost stalling.
> I replaced the MAP sensor a week before (it diagnosed outside normal
> running parameters). The TPS checked out fine. The coil was recently
> replaced. The only sensor not working is the speed sensor -- actually
> there's an open in the wiring somewhere. The service manual says it uses
> speed sensor input to determine engine idle and fuel requirements. But
> at idle? When the speedo is reading 0 (zero)? Come on! Any ideas? I
> haven't located the 'open' yet. Getting to the instrument guage
> connector means teraring the dash apart and that isn't a fun job.
>
> Linda
>
11900 From: Dion & Paola <amstaff@e...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 6:26pm
Subject: White Tanks cleanup repost
Reply to: White Tanks cleanup repost
Hi all: If possible, could some repost all the particulars for the White Tanks cleanup this Saturday (time, directions, etc.)? Looks like I'll be able to go after all. Will there be any sort of actual wheeling involved at some point (payoff for the hard labor [grin])? And will there be guides for those of us who have never been there? TIA.
Dion Bozman
94 YJ Sahara
11901 From: <eandkm@u...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 6:18pm
Subject: Re: Re: greenies etc.
Ok bonehead, lets throw punches now.....exactly why I don't like this club anymore. I never said I didnt care about what was going on with land issues, they are important to me. I just think there are many other sites available for this and the virtual club seems to be more about politics going on than getting out in the jeep. Obviously you could use my lamp.
Erin
Devon Whitney wrote:
How much for the lamp?
On second thought, it obviously hasn't illuminated your view of the
world around you so it probably wouldn't do much good for anyone else
either.
SeeeeYaaa..
Devon
1974 CJ-6
a74cj6@aol.com
www.5pillars.com/ucan2
www.homestead.com/a74cj6
--- In az_vjc@egroups.com, wrote:
> Your right Travis, I'm sticking with the xj list from now
> on, this club has lost it's direction and humor. Good bye,
> fellow jeepers, yes I said "JEEP".
> Oh, by the way I have a lamp for sale, is it ok to waste
> space on here and post it?? After all just hit "delete" if
> you don't like it.........................
> Erin
>
> az cattledogg wrote:
>
> >
> > You aint the only one Erin.It is getting out of conrol
> > around hear,I think I
> > may just stay with the XJ list for awhile.
> >
> > >From:
> > >Reply-To: eandkm@u...
> > >To: "Chatfield, Mike"
> > >CC: "'az_vjc@egroups.com'"
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] RE: greenies etc.
> > >Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:13:00 -0700
> > >
> > >God damn, you guys on this list are out of control. When
> > I
> > >joined this club there was talk of jeeps and jeeping fun.
> > I
> > >know these issues are important to our future of wheelin
> > >blah blah blah.........Way to much politics here, such a
> > >shame. I'm not sure I want to stay with this group
> > anymore.
> > >Erin
> > >
> > >"Chatfield, Mike" wrote:
> > >
> > > > Sorry this isn't meant to be a flame, but it is gonna
> > > > sting a little.
> > > >
> > > > "Every time we talk about staying on the trails and
> > > > publicly rip into
> > > > someone for getting off the trail and tearing up the
> > land
> > > > we exhibit a bit
> > > > of the greenies in all of us."
> > > >
> > > > Part of our responsibility as OHV owners and Public
> > Land
> > > > Users is to educate
> > > > those new to our sport; this may include tactfully
> > > > "ripping" into someone
> > > > about proper land use. If we stand by and watch as
> > they
> > > > drive off the trail
> > > > and tear up the side of a hill they have no business
> > > > climbing in the first
> > > > place, then we are just as guilty as they are. Proper
> > > > education of OHV users
> > > > should be the foundation of our fight against the
> > > > EcoTerrorists.
> > > >
> > > > "Everyone knows for a fact that you can't let one
> > apple
> > > > spoil the bunch.
> > > > There are some crazies and sane people in every cause.
> > I
> > > > personally feel
> > > > that there needs to be some land closings. I have not
> > been
> > > > on one trail when
> > > > due to the bad apples there has been beer cans and
> > shotgun
> > > > shells
> > > > everywhere. We can't prevent everyone from littering
> > so
> > > > for awhile the only
> > > > solution may be to keep people off."
> > > >
> > > > First you say that you can't let one bad apple spoil
> > the
> > > > bunch, and then you
> > > > say roads should be closed to prevent those idiots
> > from
> > > > littering up the
> > > > countryside. One thing you have to realize is just
> > because
> > > > the roads are
> > > > "closed" doesn't mean that these idiots are going to
> > stop
> > > > their behavior;
> > > > they're still going to drive out there (or somewhere)
> > and
> > > > drink their beer
> > > > and litter up the place. The only thing you've
> > > > accomplished is closing the
> > > > trail to families who have a legitimate right to be
> > there.
> > > > In addition, it
> > > > is usually areas with relatively easy access that have
> > the
> > > > most trash. In
> > > > other words it's not OHV users that are doing this; it
> > is
> > > > idiots from the
> > > > city out in their mom's car, coming out to drink in
> > the
> > > > middle of nowhere so
> > > > they don't get caught because they are underage. Also
> > > > closing trails will
> > > > only increase traffic on the existing trails; then the
> >
> > > > Greenies will want to
> > > > close those trails because of all the damage being
> > done.
> > > > Soon you'll ask
> > > > someone if they've 4 wheeled in Arizona and they'll
> > say
> > > > "yea, I did all 4
> > > > trails in that state."
> > > >
> > > > "If left to human actions this whole state would be
> > > > overrun with abandoned
> > > > shot-gunned vehicles, beer cans and vandalized cacti.
> > Not
> > > > pretty. There
> > > > would be no discipline."
> > > >
> > > > If left to HUMAN actions? I'd hesitate to call the
> > morons
> > > > who leave this
> > > > kind of trash humans. If left to HUMANS, like everyone
> >
> > > > I've met from AZVJC
> > > > on the trails there would be no need for "clean-ups"
> > > > because we pack out
> > > > what we pack in. We take it upon ourselves to clean up
> > the
> > > > 50+ years of
> > > > trash build up in the desert because we care enough
> > about
> > > > our land to use it
> > > > responsibly and do what we need to keep it open for
> > our
> > > > children's children.
> > > >
> > > > "We have a ton of nice trails open and available. I
> > think
> > > > this state has
> > > > room to set some land aside and preserve it."
> > > >
> > > > The state has set a lot of land aside; all of the land
> >
> > > > between trails is off
> > > > limits to us. Not to mention places where wilderness
> > areas
> > > > have been
> > > > declared, closing existing roads and trails. There is
> > a
> > > > lot of land out
> > > > there without a single tire track on it. There are
> > places
> > > > where humans have
> > > > not stepped foot for hundreds of years, if ever.
> > Existing
> > > > roads and trails
> > > > do not need to be closed to preserve the land.
> > > >
> > > > "Also because we have an opposing thumb doesn't mean
> > we
> > > > have the right to
> > > > squash the owl's. This land isn't ours and our Jeeps
> > > > alone."
> > > >
> > > > No the land doesn't belong to OHV, it belongs to
> > Ranchers,
> > > > Hunters, Hikers,
> > > > Bikers, Plants, Animals, Insects, Spiders, etc... When
> >
> > > > there is a valid
> > > > endangered species that needs protection, I don't have
> > any
> > > > problem with
> > > > that. However I do have a problem with EcoTerrorists
> > > > trying to invent
> > > > species. Geographical location does not make a new
> > species
> > > > (as with the
> > > > spotted pigmy owl), skin blemishes and discolored hair
> >
> > > > does not make a new
> > > > species, yet EcoTerrorists will swear up and down that
> >
> > > > these are new species
> > > > because of these differences. If this were the case,
> > then
> > > > there would be
> > > > thousands of species of "Human."
> > > >
> > > > My 2.5 cents worth,
> > > >
> > > > - Mike
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
__________________________________________________ ____________________
_
> >
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> > http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> >
Attachment: (image/gif) C:\windows\TEMP\nsmailAA.gif [not stored]
11902 From: <eandkm@u...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 6:25pm
Subject: Re: RE: greenies etc.
Ok, I see nobody gets my point. I am VERY well aware of whats going on out
there with my land, but lately it seems there's less and less wheeling and more
and more whining about what politicians are doing to close that land. I enjoy
wheeling with this club and have met some great people, but my delete key is
worn out! Sorry to offend any of you, I don't mean it except for that one
bonehead....maybe it's just the heat and lack of runs lately because of it.. Ok,
sorry I apologize to all.............
Erin
"Chris R." wrote:
> Erin,
>
> I am sorry you feel that way. However if we do not fight the good fight and
> present a united front how do you propose we keep the lands open? If they
> close the lands what alternatives can you give us?
>
> Yes several of us have blown off steam directed at the "greenies", knowing
> we have an ear here that cares. With around 300 members if everyone posted
> something that would be alot of posts, and knowing everyone has an opinion
> that could happen.
>
> I don't know where else you would like this information to get to us. To me
> approaching the clubs with updates and sometimes blowing off steam makes
> clubs the palce to do it. They are the ones that will be affected by it. I
> personnaly would not belong to any club that did not want to ge envolved to
> preserve our rights.
>
> If this is truly not the club for you I am sorry, I hate to see anyone want
> to leave. I also know you cannot make everyone happy and I hope this has
> not upset you more, but there is always room for additional clubs, maybe for
> those who don't want to get envolved someone could start up the Ostrich
> Off-Road Club, Drivers with their heads in the sand on land issues. Just a
> thought.
>
> Good luck whatever your decision.
>
> Chris
> http://www.hotstuff.alloffroad.com/
> My1stJeep@e...
> '97 TJ
> ----------------------------------------------------
> "He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a
> fool forever."
>
> On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:13:00 -0700, eandkm@u... wrote:
>
> >
> > << File Attachment Removed: "text/html; charset=us-ascii" >>
> >
> > << File Attachment Removed: "image/gif" >>
>
> __________________________________________________ _____
> Say Bye to Slow Internet!
> http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html
11903 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 6:50pm
Subject: Re: Re: greenies etc.
For a club that generally has been averaging at least 1 trail run a week, I'm not sure I understand your comment...but clearly, we're not for everyone. There are many good clubs out there, so hopefully you'll find a good match.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: eandkm@uswest.net
To: Devon Whitney
Cc: az_vjc@egroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: greenies etc.
Ok bonehead, lets throw punches now.....exactly why I don't like this club anymore. I never said I didnt care about what was going on with land issues, they are important to me. I just think there are many other sites available for this and the virtual club seems to be more about politics going on than getting out in the jeep. Obviously you could use my lamp.
Erin
Devon Whitney wrote:
How much for the lamp?
On second thought, it obviously hasn't illuminated your view of the
world around you so it probably wouldn't do much good for anyone else
either.
SeeeeYaaa..
Devon
1974 CJ-6
a74cj6@aol.com
www.5pillars.com/ucan2
www.homestead.com/a74cj6
--- In az_vjc@egroups.com, wrote:
> Your right Travis, I'm sticking with the xj list from now
> on, this club has lost it's direction and humor. Good bye,
> fellow jeepers, yes I said "JEEP".
> Oh, by the way I have a lamp for sale, is it ok to waste
> space on here and post it?? After all just hit "delete" if
> you don't like it.........................
> Erin
>
> az cattledogg wrote:
>
> >
> > You aint the only one Erin.It is getting out of conrol
> > around hear,I think I
> > may just stay with the XJ list for awhile.
> >
> > >From:
> > >Reply-To: eandkm@u...
> > >To: "Chatfield, Mike"
> > >CC: "'az_vjc@egroups.com'"
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] RE: greenies etc.
> > >Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:13:00 -0700
> > >
> > >God damn, you guys on this list are out of control. When
> > I
> > >joined this club there was talk of jeeps and jeeping fun.
> > I
> > >know these issues are important to our future of wheelin
> > >blah blah blah.........Way to much politics here, such a
> > >shame. I'm not sure I want to stay with this group
> > anymore.
> > >Erin
> > >
> > >"Chatfield, Mike" wrote:
> > >
> > > > Sorry this isn't meant to be a flame, but it is gonna
> > > > sting a little.
> > > >
> > > > "Every time we talk about staying on the trails and
> > > > publicly rip into
> > > > someone for getting off the trail and tearing up the
> > land
> > > > we exhibit a bit
> > > > of the greenies in all of us."
> > > >
> > > > Part of our responsibility as OHV owners and Public
> > Land
> > > > Users is to educate
> > > > those new to our sport; this may include tactfully
> > > > "ripping" into someone
> > > > about proper land use. If we stand by and watch as
> > they
> > > > drive off the trail
> > > > and tear up the side of a hill they have no business
> > > > climbing in the first
> > > > place, then we are just as guilty as they are. Proper
> > > > education of OHV users
> > > > should be the foundation of our fight against the
> > > > EcoTerrorists.
> > > >
> > > > "Everyone knows for a fact that you can't let one
> > apple
> > > > spoil the bunch.
> > > > There are some crazies and sane people in every cause.
> > I
> > > > personally f