blooddrive
01-02-2004, 11:23 PM
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11813 From: Brent Lizakowski <brent_lizakowski@h...>
Date: Sun Aug 20, 2000 3:32pm
Subject: Do you keep a trail log??
I posted this on JU, but thought I'd try here as well....
OK, yesterday afternoon at Chiva Falls was basically my first off-roading
experience. I say basically because I've been off the paved roads in my jeep
before, but never had to go into 4-low.
Anyway, I was thinking of something on the way home.... I think it'd be neat
to keep a trail log. You know, something kind of like what pilots keep to
track their flight hours. Only, I was thinking of keeping something where
maybe I pass it around to all the people I'm with at the beginning of the
run (so I know who else went along and could keep track of all the people I
meet and the vehicles that went along as well) and then having a little
write-up about the trail (how far we went, how long it took, where it was,
how the terrain was, what kind of troubles we encountered --trouble??? in a
jeep??? Never! :) -- , etc.) Then, after I got pictures developed, I could
put them in afterwards to help remember.
I thought surely some of you all must keep something like this. So, I
thought I'd ask just who does something like this and what kinds of things
do you put in it?? I think it'd be kind of a cool tradition and could become
part of the "air-down, disconnect" ritual. You know, pass out your trail log
and have everyone sign it while you're waiting for your tires to air down
before you go out and hit the trails.
Brent
P.S.
I'll post some pics of the run at Chiva Falls later this week!!!
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11814 From: Chris R. <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 9:53am
Subject: Re: Wilson Mountain Fire
Utilizing ones brain to come up with actual solutions would require thought
and basic intellegence greater than the show size of an infant. There is a
reason the people are called "Greenies", they are new to the world of
thought, reason and basic common sense, there are in a sense Green Horns to
the world of intellegence. Common, shouldn't we give them a break, just
tell me which bone to break and I will gladly be the one to do the first
one! LOL. Just my sick sense of humor.
Chris
http://www.hotstuff.alloffroad.com/
My1stJeep@e...
'97 TJ
----------------------------------------------------
"He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a
fool forever."
On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 09:25:44 -0700, tomasr@a... wrote:
> > There were fires recently near my hometown of Alpine, Utah. The fire
> > was in a wilderness area, and firefighters were trying to contain it
> > before it threatened homes nearby. To reach the fire, they planned on
> > grading a pre-existing road. Well, a group of environmentalists showed
> > up and attempted to block firefighting equipment from grading the road
> > and gaining access to the fire.
>
> In these emergency situations, wouldn't it make sense to grade the
> road, put out the fire, and then "erase" the road after the fire was
> out? Surely it's possible to re-plant vegetation, through some rocks
> around, block entry, etc. and help make the road go away faster than
> what Mother Nature would do. And this would probably be less costly
> than fighting a fire that gets out of control.
>
> -Roger
__________________________________________________ _____
Say Bye to Slow Internet!
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11815 From: Linda Luik <linda.luik@m...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 11:09am
Subject: Re: Do you keep a trail log??
Usually the trip report contains this information for VJC trail rides.
Formal clubs usually keep this information just for the record and also
because of possible liability issues -- even though hold harmless forms
are pretty much useless. There was a stab made at making a similar form
for AZVJC trail rides. I am not sure what happened.
Linda
Brent Lizakowski wrote:
>
> I posted this on JU, but thought I'd try here as well....
>
> OK, yesterday afternoon at Chiva Falls was basically my first off-roading
> experience. I say basically because I've been off the paved roads in my jeep
> before, but never had to go into 4-low.
>
> Anyway, I was thinking of something on the way home.... I think it'd be neat
> to keep a trail log. You know, something kind of like what pilots keep to
> track their flight hours. Only, I was thinking of keeping something where
> maybe I pass it around to all the people I'm with at the beginning of the
> run (so I know who else went along and could keep track of all the people I
> meet and the vehicles that went along as well) and then having a little
> write-up about the trail (how far we went, how long it took, where it was,
> how the terrain was, what kind of troubles we encountered --trouble??? in a
> jeep??? Never! :) -- , etc.) Then, after I got pictures developed, I could
> put them in afterwards to help remember.
>
> I thought surely some of you all must keep something like this. So, I
> thought I'd ask just who does something like this and what kinds of things
> do you put in it?? I think it'd be kind of a cool tradition and could become
> part of the "air-down, disconnect" ritual. You know, pass out your trail log
> and have everyone sign it while you're waiting for your tires to air down
> before you go out and hit the trails.
>
> Brent
>
> P.S.
>
> I'll post some pics of the run at Chiva Falls later this week!!!
>
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
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> --------------------------------------------------------------------|e>-
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11816 From: Nnote <nnote@n...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 0:24pm
Subject: greenies etc.
Every time we talk about staying on the trails and publicly rip into someone for getting off the trail and tearing up the land we exhibit a bit of the greenies in all of us. The same thing goes for everytime we go on a cleanup run. Everyone knows for a fact that you can't let one apple spoil the bunch. There are some crazies and sane people in every cause. I personally feel that there needs to be some land closings. I have not been on one trail when due to the bad apple's there has been beer cans and shotgun shells everywhere. We can't prevent everyone from littering so for awhile the only solution may be to keep people off. If left to human actions this whole state would be overrun with abandoned-shotguned vehicles, beer cans and vandalized cacti. Not pretty. There would be no discipline. Even as grown up's it's obvious that some people need someone or something to control behavior. We have a ton of nice trails open and available. I think this state has room to set some land aside and preserve it. Also because we have an opposing thumb doesn't mean we have the right to squash the owl's. This land isn't ours and our Jeeps alone.
Nick
Nnote@neta.com
Nnote@juno.com
Attachment: vcard [not shown]
11817 From: Mike <mchat@h...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 0:36pm
Subject: RE: Do you keep a trail log??
If we all had detailed trip logs, then thered be no exaggerating around the campfire& J
Actually I was thinking of creating a log for parts broken on the trail& but then I thought better of it; I dont wanna know how much Ive spent any more.
Mike Chatfield
-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Lizakowski [mailto:brent_lizakowski@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2000 10:33 PM
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Do you keep a trail log??
&
Anyway, I was thinking of something on the way home.... I think it'd be neat
to keep a trail log. You know, something kind of like what pilots keep to
track their flight hours. Only, I was thinking of keeping something where
maybe I pass it around to all the people I'm with at the beginning of the
run (so I know who else went along and could keep track of all the people I
meet and the vehicles that went along as well) and then having a little
write-up about the trail (how far we went, how long it took, where it was,
how the terrain was, what kind of troubles we encountered --trouble??? in a
jeep??? Never! :) -- , etc.) Then, after I got pictures developed, I could
put them in afterwards to help remember.
&
11818 From: B H <boh105@e...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 0:33pm
Subject: NEEDED: XJ dana 30 w/3.73 with/without disconnect OK!
Hey all,
Im looking for a DANA 30 Front axle for my 88 XJ 3.73 gears must be in good
order....need quickly....opem carrier preferred.
thanks,
Brian Harmon
__________________________________________________ _____
Say Bye to Slow Internet!
http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html
11819 From: Chatfield, Mike <mchat@h...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 1:00pm
Subject: [LU] Fires: Washington Times Article
http://www.washtimes.com/national/default-2000821222737.htm
<http://www.washtimes.com/national/default-2000821222737.htm>
Mike Chatfield
Programmer/Analyst
Pegasus Solutions
(602) 861-7686
mike.chatfield@p... <mailto:mike.chatfield@p...>
11820 From: Lisa <jeepcj8@h...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 1:19pm
Subject: Re: Do you keep a trail log??
Funny you should mention this, but I was in the Starbuck's at Baseline and
Dobson a few days ago and they had trail bike logbooks...I was thinking it would
be neat to make a 4 wheel log book....I think WW of Maps might have something...
Lisa
> <snip>Anyway, I was thinking of something on the way home.... I think it'd be
> neat to keep a trail log.
11821 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 1:48pm
Subject: RE: greenies etc.
Sorry Nick, I can't buy into anything you said.
Do you honestly believe that by closing off the land, it will teach the beer can tossers and baby diaper droppers a lesson? Come on....that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard! I can hear them now, "Gosh Bob (burp)....look, they closed our favorite beer drinking trail! (burp...burp) What are we to do? Hey, we had better go to your place tonight and litter up your front yard. Maybe in a year or two, they will open it back up and we can start tossing out beer cans again. (burp)"
So the theory is.....close the trails so those that do not litter (and carry out the stuff from those that do) can not go recreate with their friends and families. Wow....now that is an idea. That is about as good as "People drink and drive on the highways. Therefore, we should close some freeways, highways, roads, and streets for a couple of years to teach them a lesson."
Nick...this is not a flame at you. But your thoughts on punishing everyone because of a few bad apples....sorry, I will not buy into it and I will encourage everyone I can to vote any such public official out of office that even considers this childish approach to solving a problem. This mentality works in the military, where a couple of goof ups end up getting the crap beat out of them so the entire unit no longer has to suffer for their screwups. Unfortunately, there are laws that prevent this concept from being applied in every day society. Should that change some day, I will consider helping clear out the bad apples. Until then, legal enforcement is THE way to deal with it.
Oh....and those stupid owls aren't all they are cracked up to be....taste just like chicken.
Respectfully........Stu
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
-----Original Message-----
From: Nnote [mailto:nnote@neta.com]
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 12:24 PM
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] greenies etc.
Every time we talk about staying on the trails and publicly rip into someone for getting off the trail and tearing up the land we exhibit a bit of the greenies in all of us. The same thing goes for everytime we go on a cleanup run. Everyone knows for a fact that you can't let one apple spoil the bunch. There are some crazies and sane people in every cause. I personally feel that there needs to be some land closings. I have not been on one trail when due to the bad apple's there has been beer cans and shotgun shells everywhere. We can't prevent everyone from littering so for awhile the only solution may be to keep people off. If left to human actions this whole state would be overrun with abandoned-shotguned vehicles, beer cans and vandalized cacti. Not pretty. There would be no discipline. Even as grown up's it's obvious that some people need someone or something to control behavior. We have a ton of nice trails open and available. I think this state has room to set some land aside and preserve it. Also because we have an opposing thumb doesn't mean we have the right to squash the owl's. This land isn't ours and our Jeeps alone.
Nick
Nnote@neta.com
Nnote@juno.com
11822 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 1:55am
Subject: RE: greenies etc.
Sorry Stu, gonna have to disagree with you on this one.
You said we shouldn't close the freeways and roads just because people drive drunk. I think we should. Close em up. Remove the concrete. Add some big ole rocks. Would make getting to work MUCH more fun!
:-)
ChrisK
From: "Stu Olson"
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:48:31 -0700
To:
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] greenies etc.
Sorry Nick, I can't buy into anything you said.
Do you honestly believe that by closing off the land, it will teach the beer can tossers and baby diaper droppers a lesson? Come on....that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard! I can hear them now, "Gosh Bob (burp)....look, they closed our favorite beer drinking trail! (burp...burp) What are we to do? Hey, we had better go to your place tonight and litter up your front yard. Maybe in a year or two, they will open it back up and we can start tossing out beer cans again. (burp)"
So the theory is.....close the trails so those that do not litter (and carry out the stuff from those that do) can not go recreate with their friends and families. Wow....now that is an idea. That is about as good as "People drink and drive on the highways. Therefore, we should close some freeways, highways, roads, and streets for a couple of years to teach them a lesson."
Nick...this is not a flame at you. But your thoughts on punishing everyone because of a few bad apples....sorry, I will not buy into it and I will encourage everyone I can to vote any such public official out of office that even considers this childish approach to solving a problem. This mentality works in the military, where a couple of goof ups end up getting the crap beat out of them so the entire unit no longer has to suffer for their screwups. Unfortunately, there are laws that prevent this concept from being applied in every day society. Should that change some day, I will consider helping clear out the bad apples. Until then, legal enforcement is THE way to deal with it.
Oh....and those stupid owls aren't all they are cracked up to be....taste just like chicken.
Respectfully........Stu
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
-----Original Message-----
From: Nnote [mailto:nnote@neta.com]
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 12:24 PM
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] greenies etc.
Every time we talk about staying on the trails and publicly rip into someone for getting off the trail and tearing up the land we exhibit a bit of the greenies in all of us. The same thing goes for everytime we go on a cleanup run. Everyone knows for a fact that you can't let one apple spoil the bunch. There are some crazies and sane people in every cause. I personally feel that there needs to be some land closings. I have not been on one trail when due to the bad apple's there has been beer cans and shotgun shells everywhere. We can't prevent everyone from littering so for awhile the only solution may be to keep people off. If left to human actions this whole state would be overrun with abandoned-shotguned vehicles, beer cans and vandalized cacti. Not pretty. There would be no discipline. Even as grown up's it's obvious that some people need someone or something to control behavior. We have a ton of nice trails open and available. I think this state has room to set some land aside and preserve it. Also because we have an opposing thumb doesn't mean we have the right to squash the owl's. This land isn't ours and our Jeeps alone.
Nick
Nnote@neta.com
Nnote@juno.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11823 From: <zjdreams@a...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 10:00am
Subject: RE: greenies etc.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Well put Stu!
Jeff Gully
11824 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 2:05pm
Subject: RE: greenies etc.
You got me on that one! Gosh....maybe that isn't such a bad idea!
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@mac.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 1:55 AM
To: Virtual Jeep Club
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] greenies etc.
Sorry Stu, gonna have to disagree with you on this one.
You said we shouldn't close the freeways and roads just because people drive drunk. I think we should. Close em up. Remove the concrete. Add some big ole rocks. Would make getting to work MUCH more fun!
:-)
ChrisK
From: "Stu Olson"
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:48:31 -0700
To:
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] greenies etc.
Sorry Nick, I can't buy into anything you said.
Do you honestly believe that by closing off the land, it will teach the beer can tossers and baby diaper droppers a lesson? Come on....that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard! I can hear them now, "Gosh Bob (burp)....look, they closed our favorite beer drinking trail! (burp...burp) What are we to do? Hey, we had better go to your place tonight and litter up your front yard. Maybe in a year or two, they will open it back up and we can start tossing out beer cans again. (burp)"
So the theory is.....close the trails so those that do not litter (and carry out the stuff from those that do) can not go recreate with their friends and families. Wow....now that is an idea. That is about as good as "People drink and drive on the highways. Therefore, we should close some freeways, highways, roads, and streets for a couple of years to teach them a lesson."
Nick...this is not a flame at you. But your thoughts on punishing everyone because of a few bad apples....sorry, I will not buy into it and I will encourage everyone I can to vote any such public official out of office that even considers this childish approach to solving a problem. This mentality works in the military, where a couple of goof ups end up getting the crap beat out of them so the entire unit no longer has to suffer for their screwups. Unfortunately, there are laws that prevent this concept from being applied in every day society. Should that change some day, I will consider helping clear out the bad apples. Until then, legal enforcement is THE way to deal with it.
Oh....and those stupid owls aren't all they are cracked up to be....taste just like chicken.
Respectfully........Stu
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
-----Original Message-----
From: Nnote [mailto:nnote@neta.com]
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 12:24 PM
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] greenies etc.
Every time we talk about staying on the trails and publicly rip into someone for getting off the trail and tearing up the land we exhibit a bit of the greenies in all of us. The same thing goes for everytime we go on a cleanup run. Everyone knows for a fact that you can't let one apple spoil the bunch. There are some crazies and sane people in every cause. I personally feel that there needs to be some land closings. I have not been on one trail when due to the bad apple's there has been beer cans and shotgun shells everywhere. We can't prevent everyone from littering so for awhile the only solution may be to keep people off. If left to human actions this whole state would be overrun with abandoned-shotguned vehicles, beer cans and vandalized cacti. Not pretty. There would be no discipline. Even as grown up's it's obvious that some people need someone or something to control behavior. We have a ton of nice trails open and available. I think this state has room to set some land aside and preserve it. Also because we have an opposing thumb doesn't mean we have the right to squash the owl's. This land isn't ours and our Jeeps alone.
Nick
Nnote@neta.com
Nnote@juno.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11825 From: Chatfield, Mike <mchat@h...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 2:59pm
Subject: RE: greenies etc.
Sorry this isn't meant to be a flame, but it is gonna sting a little.
"Every time we talk about staying on the trails and publicly rip into
someone for getting off the trail and tearing up the land we exhibit a bit
of the greenies in all of us."
Part of our responsibility as OHV owners and Public Land Users is to educate
those new to our sport; this may include tactfully "ripping" into someone
about proper land use. If we stand by and watch as they drive off the trail
and tear up the side of a hill they have no business climbing in the first
place, then we are just as guilty as they are. Proper education of OHV users
should be the foundation of our fight against the EcoTerrorists.
"Everyone knows for a fact that you can't let one apple spoil the bunch.
There are some crazies and sane people in every cause. I personally feel
that there needs to be some land closings. I have not been on one trail when
due to the bad apples there has been beer cans and shotgun shells
everywhere. We can't prevent everyone from littering so for awhile the only
solution may be to keep people off."
First you say that you can't let one bad apple spoil the bunch, and then you
say roads should be closed to prevent those idiots from littering up the
countryside. One thing you have to realize is just because the roads are
"closed" doesn't mean that these idiots are going to stop their behavior;
they're still going to drive out there (or somewhere) and drink their beer
and litter up the place. The only thing you've accomplished is closing the
trail to families who have a legitimate right to be there. In addition, it
is usually areas with relatively easy access that have the most trash. In
other words it's not OHV users that are doing this; it is idiots from the
city out in their mom's car, coming out to drink in the middle of nowhere so
they don't get caught because they are underage. Also closing trails will
only increase traffic on the existing trails; then the Greenies will want to
close those trails because of all the damage being done. Soon you'll ask
someone if they've 4 wheeled in Arizona and they'll say "yea, I did all 4
trails in that state."
"If left to human actions this whole state would be overrun with abandoned
shot-gunned vehicles, beer cans and vandalized cacti. Not pretty. There
would be no discipline."
If left to HUMAN actions? I'd hesitate to call the morons who leave this
kind of trash humans. If left to HUMANS, like everyone I've met from AZVJC
on the trails there would be no need for "clean-ups" because we pack out
what we pack in. We take it upon ourselves to clean up the 50+ years of
trash build up in the desert because we care enough about our land to use it
responsibly and do what we need to keep it open for our children's children.
"We have a ton of nice trails open and available. I think this state has
room to set some land aside and preserve it."
The state has set a lot of land aside; all of the land between trails is off
limits to us. Not to mention places where wilderness areas have been
declared, closing existing roads and trails. There is a lot of land out
there without a single tire track on it. There are places where humans have
not stepped foot for hundreds of years, if ever. Existing roads and trails
do not need to be closed to preserve the land.
"Also because we have an opposing thumb doesn't mean we have the right to
squash the owl's. This land isn't ours and our Jeeps alone."
No the land doesn't belong to OHV, it belongs to Ranchers, Hunters, Hikers,
Bikers, Plants, Animals, Insects, Spiders, etc... When there is a valid
endangered species that needs protection, I don't have any problem with
that. However I do have a problem with EcoTerrorists trying to invent
species. Geographical location does not make a new species (as with the
spotted pigmy owl), skin blemishes and discolored hair does not make a new
species, yet EcoTerrorists will swear up and down that these are new species
because of these differences. If this were the case, then there would be
thousands of species of "Human."
My 2.5 cents worth,
- Mike
11826 From: Chris <cmandrick@v...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 2:50pm
Subject: Re: Do you keep a trail log??
Get a pilot's logbook for 4 bucks at your local small airport...
Chris
----------
> From: Lisa <jeepcj8@h...>
> To: az_vjc@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Do you keep a trail log??
> Date: Monday, August 21, 2000 3:19 PM
>
> Funny you should mention this, but I was in the Starbuck's at Baseline
and
> Dobson a few days ago and they had trail bike logbooks...I was thinking
it would
> be neat to make a 4 wheel log book....I think WW of Maps might have
something...
>
> Lisa
>
>
> > <snip>Anyway, I was thinking of something on the way home.... I think
it'd be
> > neat to keep a trail log.
>
>
>
>
>
11827 From: Thomas Jacobson <Tjacobs@I...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 3:12pm
Subject: "For Sale" Postings
What's the group consensus towards posting non-jeep items for sale on this
list? I'm personally not completely opposed, but don't want to get everyone
ruffled. I've got a great car for sale that I'd like to post details on.
Tom J. (Maybe should have taken the "easier to ask forgiveness than
permission" approach...)
11828 From: George Andrews <gandre01@m...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 3:20pm
Subject: Fw: "Amber FIre" was New TJ/Bull Bar for sale
Yes...amber fire is the copper color.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Luik <p14175@e...>
To: George Andrews <gandre01@m...>
Cc: azvjc <az_vjc@egroups.com>
Date: Monday, August 21, 2000 7:36 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] "Amber FIre" was New TJ/Bull Bar for sale
>Is that that copper color? Cool! I saw one in the Darner lot on the way
>to work this morning.
>Linda
>
>
>George Andrews wrote:
>>
>> True, the amber fire color is new for 2001 but was issued early on some
2000
>> models.
>>
>> George
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Larry <lmaggio@p...>
>> To: George Andrews <gandre01@m...>
>> Date: Sunday, August 20, 2000 11:01 PM
>> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] New TJ/Bull Bar for sale
>>
>> >>
>> >> On the other hand, my wife is now the proud owner of a brand new
>> >amber-fire
>> >> 2000 TJ Sport!
>> >>
>> >
>> >I thought the Amber Fire color was new to the 2001 models.
>> >
11829 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 3:36pm
Subject: FW: proper connection point
This is a message thread I just concluded with Optima Battery's tech support
representative.
I know that some of you already know about this issue, but I am sure some
don't. For those that don't, read and learn. For those that do....read and
remember! :-)
The message thread has the oldest message at the bottom, so start there and
read up the page to stay in chronological order.
Stu
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
-----Original Message-----
From: Shana Holland [mailto:sholland@o...]
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 12:14 PM
To: 'Stu Olson'
Subject: RE: proper connection point
Stu,
We do need to have the information regarding not hooking up your winch to
side terminals on our website. Our website is seriously lacking some
detail. Hooking your starter motor to the side terminals is fine. Hooking
anything to the side terminals is pretty much fine, except for the winch.
Your installation plan sounds like a great idea. If you need any other
assistance, let me know!
Best Regards,
Shana Holland
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@u...]
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 1:14 PM
To: Shana Holland
Subject: RE: proper connection point
Shana,
Thank you for your timely response.
I assume that it is OK to hook the starter motor to the side terminals,
since some vehicles are designed this way, correct? I can always convert
the connectors on the end of the cables to the use the side terminals and
put post connectors on the winch leads. Would this keep me in warrantee?
One other thing....I did quite a bit of poking around the web site and did
not find any statements about not using the side terminals for winching
applications. I may have missed it, but I was trying to find it (prior to
writing you for information). I think it would be a good idea if it was
presented in the FAQ and the applications section, and perhaps the battery
specs section. Something as serious as burning a terminal on the battery
needs more attention. This battery is THE battery to use in off-road
vehicles, and I'll bet many, many owners do not know about this.
Thank you again.....Stu
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
-----Original Message-----
From: Shana Holland [mailto:sholland@o...]
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 11:05 AM
To: 'Stu Olson'
Subject: RE: proper connection point
Stu,
Thank you for your interest in OPTIMA Batteries. The information you heard
is correct. You don't want to hook a winch up to the side terminals because
the high current would short out the terminals causing your battery to fail.
If you need any other information you can contact me at the above address.
Best Regards,
Shana Holland
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@u...]
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2000 6:55 PM
To: questions@o...
Subject: proper connection point
I purchased a Yellow Top for my Jeep a week ago. I plan on installing a
9000 lb. winch.
Are the side terminals rated the same as the top posts for current handling
capability? It would be easy to connect the winch to the side terminals,
but I had once heard in a newsgroup that this would void the warrantee
because the side mounts can not handle the high current draw of an electric
winch. Is this correct?
Thanks........Stu
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
11830 From: Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 3:42pm
Subject: RE: RE: greenies etc.
The government and the bureaucrats that inhabit it have generally one very
bad trait in these situations, a complete lack of common sense (They are
pure political animals, jobs dependent upon the Executive Branch). I
subscribe to one universal philosophy in these situations. NEVER "give"
power to anyone who does not have a vested interest in the outcome. That
means unless they live here, work here and the USE these lands they should
have no input of significance. Also, this saving for future generations BS
is pure socialism at its worst. Pretty soon the only off road driving the
Greens will ALLOW will be speed bumps. Fight for your self determination and
quit wimping out for the protection of THE STATE.
I feel much better now, my meds are kicking in.....;-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Chatfield, Mike [mailto:mchat@h...]
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 2:59 PM
To: 'az_vjc@egroups.com'
Subject: [az_vjc] RE: greenies etc.
Sorry this isn't meant to be a flame, but it is gonna sting a little.
"Every time we talk about staying on the trails and publicly rip into
someone for getting off the trail and tearing up the land we exhibit a bit
of the greenies in all of us."
Part of our responsibility as OHV owners and Public Land Users is to educate
those new to our sport; this may include tactfully "ripping" into someone
about proper land use. If we stand by and watch as they drive off the trail
and tear up the side of a hill they have no business climbing in the first
place, then we are just as guilty as they are. Proper education of OHV users
should be the foundation of our fight against the EcoTerrorists.
"Everyone knows for a fact that you can't let one apple spoil the bunch.
There are some crazies and sane people in every cause. I personally feel
that there needs to be some land closings. I have not been on one trail when
due to the bad apples there has been beer cans and shotgun shells
everywhere. We can't prevent everyone from littering so for awhile the only
solution may be to keep people off."
First you say that you can't let one bad apple spoil the bunch, and then you
say roads should be closed to prevent those idiots from littering up the
countryside. One thing you have to realize is just because the roads are
"closed" doesn't mean that these idiots are going to stop their behavior;
they're still going to drive out there (or somewhere) and drink their beer
and litter up the place. The only thing you've accomplished is closing the
trail to families who have a legitimate right to be there. In addition, it
is usually areas with relatively easy access that have the most trash. In
other words it's not OHV users that are doing this; it is idiots from the
city out in their mom's car, coming out to drink in the middle of nowhere so
they don't get caught because they are underage. Also closing trails will
only increase traffic on the existing trails; then the Greenies will want to
close those trails because of all the damage being done. Soon you'll ask
someone if they've 4 wheeled in Arizona and they'll say "yea, I did all 4
trails in that state."
"If left to human actions this whole state would be overrun with abandoned
shot-gunned vehicles, beer cans and vandalized cacti. Not pretty. There
would be no discipline."
If left to HUMAN actions? I'd hesitate to call the morons who leave this
kind of trash humans. If left to HUMANS, like everyone I've met from AZVJC
on the trails there would be no need for "clean-ups" because we pack out
what we pack in. We take it upon ourselves to clean up the 50+ years of
trash build up in the desert because we care enough about our land to use it
responsibly and do what we need to keep it open for our children's children.
"We have a ton of nice trails open and available. I think this state has
room to set some land aside and preserve it."
The state has set a lot of land aside; all of the land between trails is off
limits to us. Not to mention places where wilderness areas have been
declared, closing existing roads and trails. There is a lot of land out
there without a single tire track on it. There are places where humans have
not stepped foot for hundreds of years, if ever. Existing roads and trails
do not need to be closed to preserve the land.
"Also because we have an opposing thumb doesn't mean we have the right to
squash the owl's. This land isn't ours and our Jeeps alone."
No the land doesn't belong to OHV, it belongs to Ranchers, Hunters, Hikers,
Bikers, Plants, Animals, Insects, Spiders, etc... When there is a valid
endangered species that needs protection, I don't have any problem with
that. However I do have a problem with EcoTerrorists trying to invent
species. Geographical location does not make a new species (as with the
spotted pigmy owl), skin blemishes and discolored hair does not make a new
species, yet EcoTerrorists will swear up and down that these are new species
because of these differences. If this were the case, then there would be
thousands of species of "Human."
My 2.5 cents worth,
- Mike
11831 From: <grafik_lar@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 4:01pm
Subject: Re: greenies etc.
Here Check these site about the Greenies or By the Greenies If you
don't think that they are Crasy.
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/99/12/st123108.html
http://www.acclaimedmedia.com/voafa/bnn/bestof/89b.htm
http://environment.tqn.com/newsissues/environment/gi/dynamic/offsite.h
tm?site=http://www.cdfe.org/ecoterror.html
http://www.zianet.com/wblase/endtimes/terror.htm
http://www.iiipublishing.com/gmnews.htm
11832 From: Barbour <barbour9@h...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 4:01pm
Subject: XJ Cooling problems
I have been working out a cooling problem for sometime now, but haven't had
much progress. I was hoping someone has seen this before and could give a
little assistance.
Three months ago I had a water pump go out on my Cherokee. I replaced it
with one from AutoZone. OK problem solved, right? Not really, just the
beginning.
Since I replaced the water pump I have had cooling problems at idle. Have
I
made a mistake with my waterpump choice? I have read that the cooling
system needs to be purged of air to operate correctly ( closed system '89).
I filled the system according to the Chilton's manual. I have a newer
model
radiator (thicker), new bottle, new cap, a flex-a-lite electric fan (110)
installed and a newer model electric fan (stock) installed. So, I am
confident that
the radiator is getting enough air, and that the system is sealed.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Any ideas?
Thanks
Darin 98TJ&89XJ(HOT)
11833 From: Chris R. <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 4:08pm
Subject: RE: greenies etc.
Count me in to vote for this alternative. Just think that all impact
accidents will be far less as the speed of each vehicle will be drastically
reduced. A slow rollover will do far less damage to belted in occupants
than two vehicles colliding at 75mph. This is something to consider.
Chris
http://www.hotstuff.alloffroad.com/
My1stJeep@e...
'97 TJ
----------------------------------------------------
"He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a
fool forever."
On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 01:55:16 -0700, Chris Krieg wrote:
> Sorry Stu, gonna have to disagree with you on this one.
>
> You said we shouldn't close the freeways and roads just because people
drive
> drunk. I think we should. Close em up. Remove the concrete. Add some big
ole
> rocks. Would make getting to work MUCH more fun!
>
> :-)
>
> ChrisK
>
> From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@u...>
> Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:48:31 -0700
> To: <az_vjc@egroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] greenies etc.
>
>
> Sorry Nick, I can't buy into anything you said.
>
> Do you honestly believe that by closing off the land, it will teach the
beer
> can tossers and baby diaper droppers a lesson? Come on....that is the
most
> ridiculous thing I have heard! I can hear them now, "Gosh Bob
> (burp)....look, they closed our favorite beer drinking trail!
(burp...burp)
> What are we to do? Hey, we had better go to your place tonight and
litter
> up your front yard. Maybe in a year or two, they will open it back up
and
> we can start tossing out beer cans again. (burp)"
>
> So the theory is.....close the trails so those that do not litter (and
carry
> out the stuff from those that do) can not go recreate with their friends
and
> families. Wow....now that is an idea. That is about as good as "People
> drink and drive on the highways. Therefore, we should close some
freeways,
> highways, roads, and streets for a couple of years to teach them a
lesson."
>
> Nick...this is not a flame at you. But your thoughts on punishing
everyone
> because of a few bad apples....sorry, I will not buy into it and I will
> encourage everyone I can to vote any such public official out of office
that
> even considers this childish approach to solving a problem. This
mentality
> works in the military, where a couple of goof ups end up getting the crap
> beat out of them so the entire unit no longer has to suffer for their
> screwups. Unfortunately, there are laws that prevent this concept from
> being applied in every day society. Should that change some day, I will
> consider helping clear out the bad apples. Until then, legal enforcement
is
> THE way to deal with it.
>
> Oh....and those stupid owls aren't all they are cracked up to be....taste
> just like chicken.
>
> Respectfully........Stu
> Stu Olson N7QJP
> Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
>
> http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
> http://home.off-road.com/~stu
> http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
> Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nnote [mailto:nnote@n...]
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 12:24 PM
> To: az_vjc@egroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] greenies etc.
>
> Every time we talk about staying on the trails and publicly rip into
someone
> for getting off the trail and tearing up the land we exhibit a bit of the
> greenies in all of us. The same thing goes for everytime we go on a
cleanup
> run. Everyone knows for a fact that you can't let one apple spoil the
> bunch. There are some crazies and sane people in every cause. I
personally
> feel that there needs to be some land closings. I have not been on one
> trail when due to the bad apple's there has been beer cans and shotgun
> shells everywhere. We can't prevent everyone from littering so for
awhile
> the only solution may be to keep people off. If left to human actions
this
> whole state would be overrun with abandoned-shotguned vehicles, beer cans
> and vandalized cacti. Not pretty. There would be no discipline. Even
as
> grown up's it's obvious that some people need someone or something to
> control behavior. We have a ton of nice trails open and available. I
think
> this state has room to set some land aside and preserve it. Also because
we
> have an opposing thumb doesn't mean we have the right to squash the
owl's.
> This land isn't ours and our Jeeps alone.
> Nick
> Nnote@n...
> Nnote@j...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________ _____
Say Bye to Slow Internet!
http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html
11834 From: William Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 4:25pm
Subject: Re: greenies etc.
Yeah, don't punish all us (BURP) beer drinkers. I throw my empties back into the cooler, crushed, so I don't try to grab it again! (BURP). I even pick up a few of the not so responsible drinker's trash while I enjoy a (BEEELLLCCHH) cold one. Hell, If it weren't for one of us Booze drinkin', gun totin', fun lovin' good ol' boys, that ZJ would still be in the hole it was in a month ago.
I guess we could pick on anyone's bad habits or behavior traits. The real answer lies in what we as individuals choose to do.
Everyone who has a RIGHT to enjoy what they want, has a RESPONSIBILITY to make sure it doesn't negatively impact the rights of others.
People have a RIGHT to let me or anyone else know when my or anyone else's behavior is jeopardizing their RIGHTS, so I or anyone else can remove themselves from the situation.
Where the 1st problem comes in, is these idiots weren't taught any better from their role models, parents etc, or, they just flat out refuse to acknowledge the difference between right and wrong.
The 2nd problem comes in when, we as a society are so LAZY, we don't want to search for a solution that punishes the guilty and allows the innocent to enjoy their freedom.... NOOOO, It's EASIER to just say "close it, that'll teach them" I mean, after all, if it doesn't affect you..... what do you have to lose by it?
Someday, it will affect you, because what goes around comes around, and when it's your turn, and there is no one there to help you fight your personal injustice, you'll wonder why, and if you are smart, you'll figure it out. It's because you weren't there for the "other guy".
One thing I can't understand, the majority of you come from different states where you had limited access and you know what that's about, now you want to change it to that here? FOOLS!
BTW, I'm native to Phoenix.....
Once again, these opinions are my own, and do not reflect those of the AZVJC, so if you got a problem with them, we can agree to disagree or discuss it further between us.
BTW, No real flames intended or implied.
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
----- Original Message -----
From: Stu Olson
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 1:48 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] greenies etc.
Sorry Nick, I can't buy into anything you said.
Do you honestly believe that by closing off the land, it will teach the beer can tossers and baby diaper droppers a lesson? Come on....that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard! I can hear them now, "Gosh Bob (burp)....look, they closed our favorite beer drinking trail! (burp...burp) What are we to do? Hey, we had better go to your place tonight and litter up your front yard. Maybe in a year or two, they will open it back up and we can start tossing out beer cans again. (burp)"
So the theory is.....close the trails so those that do not litter (and carry out the stuff from those that do) can not go recreate with their friends and families. Wow....now that is an idea. That is about as good as "People drink and drive on the highways. Therefore, we should close some freeways, highways, roads, and streets for a couple of years to teach them a lesson."
Nick...this is not a flame at you. But your thoughts on punishing everyone because of a few bad apples....sorry, I will not buy into it and I will encourage everyone I can to vote any such public official out of office that even considers this childish approach to solving a problem. This mentality works in the military, where a couple of goof ups end up getting the crap beat out of them so the entire unit no longer has to suffer for their screwups. Unfortunately, there are laws that prevent this concept from being applied in every day society. Should that change some day, I will consider helping clear out the bad apples. Until then, legal enforcement is THE way to deal with it.
Oh....and those stupid owls aren't all they are cracked up to be....taste just like chicken.
Respectfully........Stu
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
-----Original Message-----
From: Nnote [mailto:nnote@neta.com]
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 12:24 PM
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] greenies etc.
Every time we talk about staying on the trails and publicly rip into someone for getting off the trail and tearing up the land we exhibit a bit of the greenies in all of us. The same thing goes for everytime we go on a cleanup run. Everyone knows for a fact that you can't let one apple spoil the bunch. There are some crazies and sane people in every cause. I personally feel that there needs to be some land closings. I have not been on one trail when due to the bad apple's there has been beer cans and shotgun shells everywhere. We can't prevent everyone from littering so for awhile the only solution may be to keep people off. If left to human actions this whole state would be overrun with abandoned-shotguned vehicles, beer cans and vandalized cacti. Not pretty. There would be no discipline. Even as grown up's it's obvious that some people need someone or something to control behavior. We have a ton of nice trails open and available. I think this state has room to set some land aside and preserve it. Also because we have an opposing thumb doesn't mean we have the right to squash the owl's. This land isn't ours and our Jeeps alone.
Nick
Nnote@neta.com
Nnote@juno.com
11835 From: William Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 4:28pm
Subject: Re: RE: greenies etc.
I'm With all that, Mike.
Good Job.
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
----- Original Message -----
From: Chatfield, Mike
To: 'az_vjc@egroups.com'
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 2:59 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] RE: greenies etc.
Sorry this isn't meant to be a flame, but it is gonna sting a little.
"Every time we talk about staying on the trails and publicly rip into
someone for getting off the trail and tearing up the land we exhibit a bit
of the greenies in all of us."
Part of our responsibility as OHV owners and Public Land Users is to educate
those new to our sport; this may include tactfully "ripping" into someone
about proper land use. If we stand by and watch as they drive off the trail
and tear up the side of a hill they have no business climbing in the first
place, then we are just as guilty as they are. Proper education of OHV users
should be the foundation of our fight against the EcoTerrorists.
"Everyone knows for a fact that you can't let one apple spoil the bunch.
There are some crazies and sane people in every cause. I personally feel
that there needs to be some land closings. I have not been on one trail when
due to the bad apples there has been beer cans and shotgun shells
everywhere. We can't prevent everyone from littering so for awhile the only
solution may be to keep people off."
First you say that you can't let one bad apple spoil the bunch, and then you
say roads should be closed to prevent those idiots from littering up the
countryside. One thing you have to realize is just because the roads are
"closed" doesn't mean that these idiots are going to stop their behavior;
they're still going to drive out there (or somewhere) and drink their beer
and litter up the place. The only thing you've accomplished is closing the
trail to families who have a legitimate right to be there. In addition, it
is usually areas with relatively easy access that have the most trash. In
other words it's not OHV users that are doing this; it is idiots from the
city out in their mom's car, coming out to drink in the middle of nowhere so
they don't get caught because they are underage. Also closing trails will
only increase traffic on the existing trails; then the Greenies will want to
close those trails because of all the damage being done. Soon you'll ask
someone if they've 4 wheeled in Arizona and they'll say "yea, I did all 4
trails in that state."
"If left to human actions this whole state would be overrun with abandoned
shot-gunned vehicles, beer cans and vandalized cacti. Not pretty. There
would be no discipline."
If left to HUMAN actions? I'd hesitate to call the morons who leave this
kind of trash humans. If left to HUMANS, like everyone I've met from AZVJC
on the trails there would be no need for "clean-ups" because we pack out
what we pack in. We take it upon ourselves to clean up the 50+ years of
trash build up in the desert because we care enough about our land to use it
responsibly and do what we need to keep it open for our children's children.
"We have a ton of nice trails open and available. I think this state has
room to set some land aside and preserve it."
The state has set a lot of land aside; all of the land between trails is off
limits to us. Not to mention places where wilderness areas have been
declared, closing existing roads and trails. There is a lot of land out
there without a single tire track on it. There are places where humans have
not stepped foot for hundreds of years, if ever. Existing roads and trails
do not need to be closed to preserve the land.
"Also because we have an opposing thumb doesn't mean we have the right to
squash the owl's. This land isn't ours and our Jeeps alone."
No the land doesn't belong to OHV, it belongs to Ranchers, Hunters, Hikers,
Bikers, Plants, Animals, Insects, Spiders, etc... When there is a valid
endangered species that needs protection, I don't have any problem with
that. However I do have a problem with EcoTerrorists trying to invent
species. Geographical location does not make a new species (as with the
spotted pigmy owl), skin blemishes and discolored hair does not make a new
species, yet EcoTerrorists will swear up and down that these are new species
because of these differences. If this were the case, then there would be
thousands of species of "Human."
My 2.5 cents worth,
- Mike
11836 From: Keith D. Orr <korr@z...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 4:20pm
Subject: Say Hello! New Member Question?
Hey Gang,
My son and I have a friend here in Safford that has recently joined the
az_vjc club, and would like to ask you all a question. This is pertaining to
a Jeep Commando/Comanche????? , any ways, you Jeep Lifer's probably know
what I mean. He has the 232 Inline 6 cyl., with a Dana 44 in the rear and
Dana 30 in the front. He is not sure what he has otherwise. He has just
purchased this vehicle not to long ago. He is a young man of 20 years, and
is in need of some good Jeeper experience. He would like to know if it is a
good idea to weld the rear axles to make a spool, or is it better to put in
a locker. Here is his letter:
I JUST CHECKED MY EMAIL TODAY AND I HAD 18 NEW MESSAGES.
I'M SORRY THAT I DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO COME BY ON SATURDAY TO TAKE YOU OUT
FOUR-WHEELING. I KNOW IT MUST BE KILLING YOU.
I SUDDENLY GOT THE URGE TO GO WELD MY REAR END INSTEAD OF BUYING A LOCKER.
I KNOW WE TALKED ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT BUT I WANTED TO GET YOUR INFO AS
WELL AS SOME PEOPLE IN THE CLUB TO SEE WHERE THEY STAND ON THE SUBJECT. IF
YOU COULD WRITE THE GROUP AND HAVE THEM GET BACK WITH ME OR YOU CAN WRITE ME
BACK THAN I'D APPRECIATE IT. IF THEY ADVISE AGAINST IT THEN FIND OUT WHAT
WOULD BE THE BEST LOCKER FOR IT AS FAR AS QUALITY AND PRICE. JUST A
REMINDER THAT I HAVE A DANA 44 WITH 30 X 11.5 ON IT AND MY ENGINE IS THE
232. IF YOU COULD GET BACK WITH ME THAT WOULD BE COOL.
And here is his e-mail address: jones_chad_13@h...
I would suggest that he uses a lock-rite or some other less expensive locker
for right now, if it is due to a money situation, but I am an XJ'er and
before that Chevy 4x4. If you get the chance say hello to Chad at the above
address, or if possible, give him some advice on the Dana 44. You will get
the chance to meet Chad at the Sept. run to be held in Safford that is in
the planning right now. Thanks to all for your help in advance.........
Casper
11837 From: <grafik_lar@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 4:19pm
Subject: Greenies
Check out this list of Terrorism. Someone said that they are not all
that bad, well I am on a mission now.
http://www.tao.ca/~ban/ar.htm
11813 From: Brent Lizakowski <brent_lizakowski@h...>
Date: Sun Aug 20, 2000 3:32pm
Subject: Do you keep a trail log??
I posted this on JU, but thought I'd try here as well....
OK, yesterday afternoon at Chiva Falls was basically my first off-roading
experience. I say basically because I've been off the paved roads in my jeep
before, but never had to go into 4-low.
Anyway, I was thinking of something on the way home.... I think it'd be neat
to keep a trail log. You know, something kind of like what pilots keep to
track their flight hours. Only, I was thinking of keeping something where
maybe I pass it around to all the people I'm with at the beginning of the
run (so I know who else went along and could keep track of all the people I
meet and the vehicles that went along as well) and then having a little
write-up about the trail (how far we went, how long it took, where it was,
how the terrain was, what kind of troubles we encountered --trouble??? in a
jeep??? Never! :) -- , etc.) Then, after I got pictures developed, I could
put them in afterwards to help remember.
I thought surely some of you all must keep something like this. So, I
thought I'd ask just who does something like this and what kinds of things
do you put in it?? I think it'd be kind of a cool tradition and could become
part of the "air-down, disconnect" ritual. You know, pass out your trail log
and have everyone sign it while you're waiting for your tires to air down
before you go out and hit the trails.
Brent
P.S.
I'll post some pics of the run at Chiva Falls later this week!!!
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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11814 From: Chris R. <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 9:53am
Subject: Re: Wilson Mountain Fire
Utilizing ones brain to come up with actual solutions would require thought
and basic intellegence greater than the show size of an infant. There is a
reason the people are called "Greenies", they are new to the world of
thought, reason and basic common sense, there are in a sense Green Horns to
the world of intellegence. Common, shouldn't we give them a break, just
tell me which bone to break and I will gladly be the one to do the first
one! LOL. Just my sick sense of humor.
Chris
http://www.hotstuff.alloffroad.com/
My1stJeep@e...
'97 TJ
----------------------------------------------------
"He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a
fool forever."
On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 09:25:44 -0700, tomasr@a... wrote:
> > There were fires recently near my hometown of Alpine, Utah. The fire
> > was in a wilderness area, and firefighters were trying to contain it
> > before it threatened homes nearby. To reach the fire, they planned on
> > grading a pre-existing road. Well, a group of environmentalists showed
> > up and attempted to block firefighting equipment from grading the road
> > and gaining access to the fire.
>
> In these emergency situations, wouldn't it make sense to grade the
> road, put out the fire, and then "erase" the road after the fire was
> out? Surely it's possible to re-plant vegetation, through some rocks
> around, block entry, etc. and help make the road go away faster than
> what Mother Nature would do. And this would probably be less costly
> than fighting a fire that gets out of control.
>
> -Roger
__________________________________________________ _____
Say Bye to Slow Internet!
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11815 From: Linda Luik <linda.luik@m...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 11:09am
Subject: Re: Do you keep a trail log??
Usually the trip report contains this information for VJC trail rides.
Formal clubs usually keep this information just for the record and also
because of possible liability issues -- even though hold harmless forms
are pretty much useless. There was a stab made at making a similar form
for AZVJC trail rides. I am not sure what happened.
Linda
Brent Lizakowski wrote:
>
> I posted this on JU, but thought I'd try here as well....
>
> OK, yesterday afternoon at Chiva Falls was basically my first off-roading
> experience. I say basically because I've been off the paved roads in my jeep
> before, but never had to go into 4-low.
>
> Anyway, I was thinking of something on the way home.... I think it'd be neat
> to keep a trail log. You know, something kind of like what pilots keep to
> track their flight hours. Only, I was thinking of keeping something where
> maybe I pass it around to all the people I'm with at the beginning of the
> run (so I know who else went along and could keep track of all the people I
> meet and the vehicles that went along as well) and then having a little
> write-up about the trail (how far we went, how long it took, where it was,
> how the terrain was, what kind of troubles we encountered --trouble??? in a
> jeep??? Never! :) -- , etc.) Then, after I got pictures developed, I could
> put them in afterwards to help remember.
>
> I thought surely some of you all must keep something like this. So, I
> thought I'd ask just who does something like this and what kinds of things
> do you put in it?? I think it'd be kind of a cool tradition and could become
> part of the "air-down, disconnect" ritual. You know, pass out your trail log
> and have everyone sign it while you're waiting for your tires to air down
> before you go out and hit the trails.
>
> Brent
>
> P.S.
>
> I'll post some pics of the run at Chiva Falls later this week!!!
>
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
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11816 From: Nnote <nnote@n...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 0:24pm
Subject: greenies etc.
Every time we talk about staying on the trails and publicly rip into someone for getting off the trail and tearing up the land we exhibit a bit of the greenies in all of us. The same thing goes for everytime we go on a cleanup run. Everyone knows for a fact that you can't let one apple spoil the bunch. There are some crazies and sane people in every cause. I personally feel that there needs to be some land closings. I have not been on one trail when due to the bad apple's there has been beer cans and shotgun shells everywhere. We can't prevent everyone from littering so for awhile the only solution may be to keep people off. If left to human actions this whole state would be overrun with abandoned-shotguned vehicles, beer cans and vandalized cacti. Not pretty. There would be no discipline. Even as grown up's it's obvious that some people need someone or something to control behavior. We have a ton of nice trails open and available. I think this state has room to set some land aside and preserve it. Also because we have an opposing thumb doesn't mean we have the right to squash the owl's. This land isn't ours and our Jeeps alone.
Nick
Nnote@neta.com
Nnote@juno.com
Attachment: vcard [not shown]
11817 From: Mike <mchat@h...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 0:36pm
Subject: RE: Do you keep a trail log??
If we all had detailed trip logs, then thered be no exaggerating around the campfire& J
Actually I was thinking of creating a log for parts broken on the trail& but then I thought better of it; I dont wanna know how much Ive spent any more.
Mike Chatfield
-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Lizakowski [mailto:brent_lizakowski@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2000 10:33 PM
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Do you keep a trail log??
&
Anyway, I was thinking of something on the way home.... I think it'd be neat
to keep a trail log. You know, something kind of like what pilots keep to
track their flight hours. Only, I was thinking of keeping something where
maybe I pass it around to all the people I'm with at the beginning of the
run (so I know who else went along and could keep track of all the people I
meet and the vehicles that went along as well) and then having a little
write-up about the trail (how far we went, how long it took, where it was,
how the terrain was, what kind of troubles we encountered --trouble??? in a
jeep??? Never! :) -- , etc.) Then, after I got pictures developed, I could
put them in afterwards to help remember.
&
11818 From: B H <boh105@e...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 0:33pm
Subject: NEEDED: XJ dana 30 w/3.73 with/without disconnect OK!
Hey all,
Im looking for a DANA 30 Front axle for my 88 XJ 3.73 gears must be in good
order....need quickly....opem carrier preferred.
thanks,
Brian Harmon
__________________________________________________ _____
Say Bye to Slow Internet!
http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html
11819 From: Chatfield, Mike <mchat@h...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 1:00pm
Subject: [LU] Fires: Washington Times Article
http://www.washtimes.com/national/default-2000821222737.htm
<http://www.washtimes.com/national/default-2000821222737.htm>
Mike Chatfield
Programmer/Analyst
Pegasus Solutions
(602) 861-7686
mike.chatfield@p... <mailto:mike.chatfield@p...>
11820 From: Lisa <jeepcj8@h...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 1:19pm
Subject: Re: Do you keep a trail log??
Funny you should mention this, but I was in the Starbuck's at Baseline and
Dobson a few days ago and they had trail bike logbooks...I was thinking it would
be neat to make a 4 wheel log book....I think WW of Maps might have something...
Lisa
> <snip>Anyway, I was thinking of something on the way home.... I think it'd be
> neat to keep a trail log.
11821 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 1:48pm
Subject: RE: greenies etc.
Sorry Nick, I can't buy into anything you said.
Do you honestly believe that by closing off the land, it will teach the beer can tossers and baby diaper droppers a lesson? Come on....that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard! I can hear them now, "Gosh Bob (burp)....look, they closed our favorite beer drinking trail! (burp...burp) What are we to do? Hey, we had better go to your place tonight and litter up your front yard. Maybe in a year or two, they will open it back up and we can start tossing out beer cans again. (burp)"
So the theory is.....close the trails so those that do not litter (and carry out the stuff from those that do) can not go recreate with their friends and families. Wow....now that is an idea. That is about as good as "People drink and drive on the highways. Therefore, we should close some freeways, highways, roads, and streets for a couple of years to teach them a lesson."
Nick...this is not a flame at you. But your thoughts on punishing everyone because of a few bad apples....sorry, I will not buy into it and I will encourage everyone I can to vote any such public official out of office that even considers this childish approach to solving a problem. This mentality works in the military, where a couple of goof ups end up getting the crap beat out of them so the entire unit no longer has to suffer for their screwups. Unfortunately, there are laws that prevent this concept from being applied in every day society. Should that change some day, I will consider helping clear out the bad apples. Until then, legal enforcement is THE way to deal with it.
Oh....and those stupid owls aren't all they are cracked up to be....taste just like chicken.
Respectfully........Stu
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
-----Original Message-----
From: Nnote [mailto:nnote@neta.com]
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 12:24 PM
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] greenies etc.
Every time we talk about staying on the trails and publicly rip into someone for getting off the trail and tearing up the land we exhibit a bit of the greenies in all of us. The same thing goes for everytime we go on a cleanup run. Everyone knows for a fact that you can't let one apple spoil the bunch. There are some crazies and sane people in every cause. I personally feel that there needs to be some land closings. I have not been on one trail when due to the bad apple's there has been beer cans and shotgun shells everywhere. We can't prevent everyone from littering so for awhile the only solution may be to keep people off. If left to human actions this whole state would be overrun with abandoned-shotguned vehicles, beer cans and vandalized cacti. Not pretty. There would be no discipline. Even as grown up's it's obvious that some people need someone or something to control behavior. We have a ton of nice trails open and available. I think this state has room to set some land aside and preserve it. Also because we have an opposing thumb doesn't mean we have the right to squash the owl's. This land isn't ours and our Jeeps alone.
Nick
Nnote@neta.com
Nnote@juno.com
11822 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 1:55am
Subject: RE: greenies etc.
Sorry Stu, gonna have to disagree with you on this one.
You said we shouldn't close the freeways and roads just because people drive drunk. I think we should. Close em up. Remove the concrete. Add some big ole rocks. Would make getting to work MUCH more fun!
:-)
ChrisK
From: "Stu Olson"
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:48:31 -0700
To:
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] greenies etc.
Sorry Nick, I can't buy into anything you said.
Do you honestly believe that by closing off the land, it will teach the beer can tossers and baby diaper droppers a lesson? Come on....that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard! I can hear them now, "Gosh Bob (burp)....look, they closed our favorite beer drinking trail! (burp...burp) What are we to do? Hey, we had better go to your place tonight and litter up your front yard. Maybe in a year or two, they will open it back up and we can start tossing out beer cans again. (burp)"
So the theory is.....close the trails so those that do not litter (and carry out the stuff from those that do) can not go recreate with their friends and families. Wow....now that is an idea. That is about as good as "People drink and drive on the highways. Therefore, we should close some freeways, highways, roads, and streets for a couple of years to teach them a lesson."
Nick...this is not a flame at you. But your thoughts on punishing everyone because of a few bad apples....sorry, I will not buy into it and I will encourage everyone I can to vote any such public official out of office that even considers this childish approach to solving a problem. This mentality works in the military, where a couple of goof ups end up getting the crap beat out of them so the entire unit no longer has to suffer for their screwups. Unfortunately, there are laws that prevent this concept from being applied in every day society. Should that change some day, I will consider helping clear out the bad apples. Until then, legal enforcement is THE way to deal with it.
Oh....and those stupid owls aren't all they are cracked up to be....taste just like chicken.
Respectfully........Stu
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
-----Original Message-----
From: Nnote [mailto:nnote@neta.com]
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 12:24 PM
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] greenies etc.
Every time we talk about staying on the trails and publicly rip into someone for getting off the trail and tearing up the land we exhibit a bit of the greenies in all of us. The same thing goes for everytime we go on a cleanup run. Everyone knows for a fact that you can't let one apple spoil the bunch. There are some crazies and sane people in every cause. I personally feel that there needs to be some land closings. I have not been on one trail when due to the bad apple's there has been beer cans and shotgun shells everywhere. We can't prevent everyone from littering so for awhile the only solution may be to keep people off. If left to human actions this whole state would be overrun with abandoned-shotguned vehicles, beer cans and vandalized cacti. Not pretty. There would be no discipline. Even as grown up's it's obvious that some people need someone or something to control behavior. We have a ton of nice trails open and available. I think this state has room to set some land aside and preserve it. Also because we have an opposing thumb doesn't mean we have the right to squash the owl's. This land isn't ours and our Jeeps alone.
Nick
Nnote@neta.com
Nnote@juno.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11823 From: <zjdreams@a...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 10:00am
Subject: RE: greenies etc.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Well put Stu!
Jeff Gully
11824 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 2:05pm
Subject: RE: greenies etc.
You got me on that one! Gosh....maybe that isn't such a bad idea!
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@mac.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 1:55 AM
To: Virtual Jeep Club
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] greenies etc.
Sorry Stu, gonna have to disagree with you on this one.
You said we shouldn't close the freeways and roads just because people drive drunk. I think we should. Close em up. Remove the concrete. Add some big ole rocks. Would make getting to work MUCH more fun!
:-)
ChrisK
From: "Stu Olson"
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:48:31 -0700
To:
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] greenies etc.
Sorry Nick, I can't buy into anything you said.
Do you honestly believe that by closing off the land, it will teach the beer can tossers and baby diaper droppers a lesson? Come on....that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard! I can hear them now, "Gosh Bob (burp)....look, they closed our favorite beer drinking trail! (burp...burp) What are we to do? Hey, we had better go to your place tonight and litter up your front yard. Maybe in a year or two, they will open it back up and we can start tossing out beer cans again. (burp)"
So the theory is.....close the trails so those that do not litter (and carry out the stuff from those that do) can not go recreate with their friends and families. Wow....now that is an idea. That is about as good as "People drink and drive on the highways. Therefore, we should close some freeways, highways, roads, and streets for a couple of years to teach them a lesson."
Nick...this is not a flame at you. But your thoughts on punishing everyone because of a few bad apples....sorry, I will not buy into it and I will encourage everyone I can to vote any such public official out of office that even considers this childish approach to solving a problem. This mentality works in the military, where a couple of goof ups end up getting the crap beat out of them so the entire unit no longer has to suffer for their screwups. Unfortunately, there are laws that prevent this concept from being applied in every day society. Should that change some day, I will consider helping clear out the bad apples. Until then, legal enforcement is THE way to deal with it.
Oh....and those stupid owls aren't all they are cracked up to be....taste just like chicken.
Respectfully........Stu
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
-----Original Message-----
From: Nnote [mailto:nnote@neta.com]
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 12:24 PM
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] greenies etc.
Every time we talk about staying on the trails and publicly rip into someone for getting off the trail and tearing up the land we exhibit a bit of the greenies in all of us. The same thing goes for everytime we go on a cleanup run. Everyone knows for a fact that you can't let one apple spoil the bunch. There are some crazies and sane people in every cause. I personally feel that there needs to be some land closings. I have not been on one trail when due to the bad apple's there has been beer cans and shotgun shells everywhere. We can't prevent everyone from littering so for awhile the only solution may be to keep people off. If left to human actions this whole state would be overrun with abandoned-shotguned vehicles, beer cans and vandalized cacti. Not pretty. There would be no discipline. Even as grown up's it's obvious that some people need someone or something to control behavior. We have a ton of nice trails open and available. I think this state has room to set some land aside and preserve it. Also because we have an opposing thumb doesn't mean we have the right to squash the owl's. This land isn't ours and our Jeeps alone.
Nick
Nnote@neta.com
Nnote@juno.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11825 From: Chatfield, Mike <mchat@h...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 2:59pm
Subject: RE: greenies etc.
Sorry this isn't meant to be a flame, but it is gonna sting a little.
"Every time we talk about staying on the trails and publicly rip into
someone for getting off the trail and tearing up the land we exhibit a bit
of the greenies in all of us."
Part of our responsibility as OHV owners and Public Land Users is to educate
those new to our sport; this may include tactfully "ripping" into someone
about proper land use. If we stand by and watch as they drive off the trail
and tear up the side of a hill they have no business climbing in the first
place, then we are just as guilty as they are. Proper education of OHV users
should be the foundation of our fight against the EcoTerrorists.
"Everyone knows for a fact that you can't let one apple spoil the bunch.
There are some crazies and sane people in every cause. I personally feel
that there needs to be some land closings. I have not been on one trail when
due to the bad apples there has been beer cans and shotgun shells
everywhere. We can't prevent everyone from littering so for awhile the only
solution may be to keep people off."
First you say that you can't let one bad apple spoil the bunch, and then you
say roads should be closed to prevent those idiots from littering up the
countryside. One thing you have to realize is just because the roads are
"closed" doesn't mean that these idiots are going to stop their behavior;
they're still going to drive out there (or somewhere) and drink their beer
and litter up the place. The only thing you've accomplished is closing the
trail to families who have a legitimate right to be there. In addition, it
is usually areas with relatively easy access that have the most trash. In
other words it's not OHV users that are doing this; it is idiots from the
city out in their mom's car, coming out to drink in the middle of nowhere so
they don't get caught because they are underage. Also closing trails will
only increase traffic on the existing trails; then the Greenies will want to
close those trails because of all the damage being done. Soon you'll ask
someone if they've 4 wheeled in Arizona and they'll say "yea, I did all 4
trails in that state."
"If left to human actions this whole state would be overrun with abandoned
shot-gunned vehicles, beer cans and vandalized cacti. Not pretty. There
would be no discipline."
If left to HUMAN actions? I'd hesitate to call the morons who leave this
kind of trash humans. If left to HUMANS, like everyone I've met from AZVJC
on the trails there would be no need for "clean-ups" because we pack out
what we pack in. We take it upon ourselves to clean up the 50+ years of
trash build up in the desert because we care enough about our land to use it
responsibly and do what we need to keep it open for our children's children.
"We have a ton of nice trails open and available. I think this state has
room to set some land aside and preserve it."
The state has set a lot of land aside; all of the land between trails is off
limits to us. Not to mention places where wilderness areas have been
declared, closing existing roads and trails. There is a lot of land out
there without a single tire track on it. There are places where humans have
not stepped foot for hundreds of years, if ever. Existing roads and trails
do not need to be closed to preserve the land.
"Also because we have an opposing thumb doesn't mean we have the right to
squash the owl's. This land isn't ours and our Jeeps alone."
No the land doesn't belong to OHV, it belongs to Ranchers, Hunters, Hikers,
Bikers, Plants, Animals, Insects, Spiders, etc... When there is a valid
endangered species that needs protection, I don't have any problem with
that. However I do have a problem with EcoTerrorists trying to invent
species. Geographical location does not make a new species (as with the
spotted pigmy owl), skin blemishes and discolored hair does not make a new
species, yet EcoTerrorists will swear up and down that these are new species
because of these differences. If this were the case, then there would be
thousands of species of "Human."
My 2.5 cents worth,
- Mike
11826 From: Chris <cmandrick@v...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 2:50pm
Subject: Re: Do you keep a trail log??
Get a pilot's logbook for 4 bucks at your local small airport...
Chris
----------
> From: Lisa <jeepcj8@h...>
> To: az_vjc@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Do you keep a trail log??
> Date: Monday, August 21, 2000 3:19 PM
>
> Funny you should mention this, but I was in the Starbuck's at Baseline
and
> Dobson a few days ago and they had trail bike logbooks...I was thinking
it would
> be neat to make a 4 wheel log book....I think WW of Maps might have
something...
>
> Lisa
>
>
> > <snip>Anyway, I was thinking of something on the way home.... I think
it'd be
> > neat to keep a trail log.
>
>
>
>
>
11827 From: Thomas Jacobson <Tjacobs@I...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 3:12pm
Subject: "For Sale" Postings
What's the group consensus towards posting non-jeep items for sale on this
list? I'm personally not completely opposed, but don't want to get everyone
ruffled. I've got a great car for sale that I'd like to post details on.
Tom J. (Maybe should have taken the "easier to ask forgiveness than
permission" approach...)
11828 From: George Andrews <gandre01@m...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 3:20pm
Subject: Fw: "Amber FIre" was New TJ/Bull Bar for sale
Yes...amber fire is the copper color.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Luik <p14175@e...>
To: George Andrews <gandre01@m...>
Cc: azvjc <az_vjc@egroups.com>
Date: Monday, August 21, 2000 7:36 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] "Amber FIre" was New TJ/Bull Bar for sale
>Is that that copper color? Cool! I saw one in the Darner lot on the way
>to work this morning.
>Linda
>
>
>George Andrews wrote:
>>
>> True, the amber fire color is new for 2001 but was issued early on some
2000
>> models.
>>
>> George
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Larry <lmaggio@p...>
>> To: George Andrews <gandre01@m...>
>> Date: Sunday, August 20, 2000 11:01 PM
>> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] New TJ/Bull Bar for sale
>>
>> >>
>> >> On the other hand, my wife is now the proud owner of a brand new
>> >amber-fire
>> >> 2000 TJ Sport!
>> >>
>> >
>> >I thought the Amber Fire color was new to the 2001 models.
>> >
11829 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 3:36pm
Subject: FW: proper connection point
This is a message thread I just concluded with Optima Battery's tech support
representative.
I know that some of you already know about this issue, but I am sure some
don't. For those that don't, read and learn. For those that do....read and
remember! :-)
The message thread has the oldest message at the bottom, so start there and
read up the page to stay in chronological order.
Stu
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
-----Original Message-----
From: Shana Holland [mailto:sholland@o...]
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 12:14 PM
To: 'Stu Olson'
Subject: RE: proper connection point
Stu,
We do need to have the information regarding not hooking up your winch to
side terminals on our website. Our website is seriously lacking some
detail. Hooking your starter motor to the side terminals is fine. Hooking
anything to the side terminals is pretty much fine, except for the winch.
Your installation plan sounds like a great idea. If you need any other
assistance, let me know!
Best Regards,
Shana Holland
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@u...]
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 1:14 PM
To: Shana Holland
Subject: RE: proper connection point
Shana,
Thank you for your timely response.
I assume that it is OK to hook the starter motor to the side terminals,
since some vehicles are designed this way, correct? I can always convert
the connectors on the end of the cables to the use the side terminals and
put post connectors on the winch leads. Would this keep me in warrantee?
One other thing....I did quite a bit of poking around the web site and did
not find any statements about not using the side terminals for winching
applications. I may have missed it, but I was trying to find it (prior to
writing you for information). I think it would be a good idea if it was
presented in the FAQ and the applications section, and perhaps the battery
specs section. Something as serious as burning a terminal on the battery
needs more attention. This battery is THE battery to use in off-road
vehicles, and I'll bet many, many owners do not know about this.
Thank you again.....Stu
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
-----Original Message-----
From: Shana Holland [mailto:sholland@o...]
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 11:05 AM
To: 'Stu Olson'
Subject: RE: proper connection point
Stu,
Thank you for your interest in OPTIMA Batteries. The information you heard
is correct. You don't want to hook a winch up to the side terminals because
the high current would short out the terminals causing your battery to fail.
If you need any other information you can contact me at the above address.
Best Regards,
Shana Holland
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@u...]
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2000 6:55 PM
To: questions@o...
Subject: proper connection point
I purchased a Yellow Top for my Jeep a week ago. I plan on installing a
9000 lb. winch.
Are the side terminals rated the same as the top posts for current handling
capability? It would be easy to connect the winch to the side terminals,
but I had once heard in a newsgroup that this would void the warrantee
because the side mounts can not handle the high current draw of an electric
winch. Is this correct?
Thanks........Stu
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
11830 From: Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 3:42pm
Subject: RE: RE: greenies etc.
The government and the bureaucrats that inhabit it have generally one very
bad trait in these situations, a complete lack of common sense (They are
pure political animals, jobs dependent upon the Executive Branch). I
subscribe to one universal philosophy in these situations. NEVER "give"
power to anyone who does not have a vested interest in the outcome. That
means unless they live here, work here and the USE these lands they should
have no input of significance. Also, this saving for future generations BS
is pure socialism at its worst. Pretty soon the only off road driving the
Greens will ALLOW will be speed bumps. Fight for your self determination and
quit wimping out for the protection of THE STATE.
I feel much better now, my meds are kicking in.....;-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Chatfield, Mike [mailto:mchat@h...]
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 2:59 PM
To: 'az_vjc@egroups.com'
Subject: [az_vjc] RE: greenies etc.
Sorry this isn't meant to be a flame, but it is gonna sting a little.
"Every time we talk about staying on the trails and publicly rip into
someone for getting off the trail and tearing up the land we exhibit a bit
of the greenies in all of us."
Part of our responsibility as OHV owners and Public Land Users is to educate
those new to our sport; this may include tactfully "ripping" into someone
about proper land use. If we stand by and watch as they drive off the trail
and tear up the side of a hill they have no business climbing in the first
place, then we are just as guilty as they are. Proper education of OHV users
should be the foundation of our fight against the EcoTerrorists.
"Everyone knows for a fact that you can't let one apple spoil the bunch.
There are some crazies and sane people in every cause. I personally feel
that there needs to be some land closings. I have not been on one trail when
due to the bad apples there has been beer cans and shotgun shells
everywhere. We can't prevent everyone from littering so for awhile the only
solution may be to keep people off."
First you say that you can't let one bad apple spoil the bunch, and then you
say roads should be closed to prevent those idiots from littering up the
countryside. One thing you have to realize is just because the roads are
"closed" doesn't mean that these idiots are going to stop their behavior;
they're still going to drive out there (or somewhere) and drink their beer
and litter up the place. The only thing you've accomplished is closing the
trail to families who have a legitimate right to be there. In addition, it
is usually areas with relatively easy access that have the most trash. In
other words it's not OHV users that are doing this; it is idiots from the
city out in their mom's car, coming out to drink in the middle of nowhere so
they don't get caught because they are underage. Also closing trails will
only increase traffic on the existing trails; then the Greenies will want to
close those trails because of all the damage being done. Soon you'll ask
someone if they've 4 wheeled in Arizona and they'll say "yea, I did all 4
trails in that state."
"If left to human actions this whole state would be overrun with abandoned
shot-gunned vehicles, beer cans and vandalized cacti. Not pretty. There
would be no discipline."
If left to HUMAN actions? I'd hesitate to call the morons who leave this
kind of trash humans. If left to HUMANS, like everyone I've met from AZVJC
on the trails there would be no need for "clean-ups" because we pack out
what we pack in. We take it upon ourselves to clean up the 50+ years of
trash build up in the desert because we care enough about our land to use it
responsibly and do what we need to keep it open for our children's children.
"We have a ton of nice trails open and available. I think this state has
room to set some land aside and preserve it."
The state has set a lot of land aside; all of the land between trails is off
limits to us. Not to mention places where wilderness areas have been
declared, closing existing roads and trails. There is a lot of land out
there without a single tire track on it. There are places where humans have
not stepped foot for hundreds of years, if ever. Existing roads and trails
do not need to be closed to preserve the land.
"Also because we have an opposing thumb doesn't mean we have the right to
squash the owl's. This land isn't ours and our Jeeps alone."
No the land doesn't belong to OHV, it belongs to Ranchers, Hunters, Hikers,
Bikers, Plants, Animals, Insects, Spiders, etc... When there is a valid
endangered species that needs protection, I don't have any problem with
that. However I do have a problem with EcoTerrorists trying to invent
species. Geographical location does not make a new species (as with the
spotted pigmy owl), skin blemishes and discolored hair does not make a new
species, yet EcoTerrorists will swear up and down that these are new species
because of these differences. If this were the case, then there would be
thousands of species of "Human."
My 2.5 cents worth,
- Mike
11831 From: <grafik_lar@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 4:01pm
Subject: Re: greenies etc.
Here Check these site about the Greenies or By the Greenies If you
don't think that they are Crasy.
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/99/12/st123108.html
http://www.acclaimedmedia.com/voafa/bnn/bestof/89b.htm
http://environment.tqn.com/newsissues/environment/gi/dynamic/offsite.h
tm?site=http://www.cdfe.org/ecoterror.html
http://www.zianet.com/wblase/endtimes/terror.htm
http://www.iiipublishing.com/gmnews.htm
11832 From: Barbour <barbour9@h...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 4:01pm
Subject: XJ Cooling problems
I have been working out a cooling problem for sometime now, but haven't had
much progress. I was hoping someone has seen this before and could give a
little assistance.
Three months ago I had a water pump go out on my Cherokee. I replaced it
with one from AutoZone. OK problem solved, right? Not really, just the
beginning.
Since I replaced the water pump I have had cooling problems at idle. Have
I
made a mistake with my waterpump choice? I have read that the cooling
system needs to be purged of air to operate correctly ( closed system '89).
I filled the system according to the Chilton's manual. I have a newer
model
radiator (thicker), new bottle, new cap, a flex-a-lite electric fan (110)
installed and a newer model electric fan (stock) installed. So, I am
confident that
the radiator is getting enough air, and that the system is sealed.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Any ideas?
Thanks
Darin 98TJ&89XJ(HOT)
11833 From: Chris R. <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 4:08pm
Subject: RE: greenies etc.
Count me in to vote for this alternative. Just think that all impact
accidents will be far less as the speed of each vehicle will be drastically
reduced. A slow rollover will do far less damage to belted in occupants
than two vehicles colliding at 75mph. This is something to consider.
Chris
http://www.hotstuff.alloffroad.com/
My1stJeep@e...
'97 TJ
----------------------------------------------------
"He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a
fool forever."
On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 01:55:16 -0700, Chris Krieg wrote:
> Sorry Stu, gonna have to disagree with you on this one.
>
> You said we shouldn't close the freeways and roads just because people
drive
> drunk. I think we should. Close em up. Remove the concrete. Add some big
ole
> rocks. Would make getting to work MUCH more fun!
>
> :-)
>
> ChrisK
>
> From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@u...>
> Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:48:31 -0700
> To: <az_vjc@egroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] greenies etc.
>
>
> Sorry Nick, I can't buy into anything you said.
>
> Do you honestly believe that by closing off the land, it will teach the
beer
> can tossers and baby diaper droppers a lesson? Come on....that is the
most
> ridiculous thing I have heard! I can hear them now, "Gosh Bob
> (burp)....look, they closed our favorite beer drinking trail!
(burp...burp)
> What are we to do? Hey, we had better go to your place tonight and
litter
> up your front yard. Maybe in a year or two, they will open it back up
and
> we can start tossing out beer cans again. (burp)"
>
> So the theory is.....close the trails so those that do not litter (and
carry
> out the stuff from those that do) can not go recreate with their friends
and
> families. Wow....now that is an idea. That is about as good as "People
> drink and drive on the highways. Therefore, we should close some
freeways,
> highways, roads, and streets for a couple of years to teach them a
lesson."
>
> Nick...this is not a flame at you. But your thoughts on punishing
everyone
> because of a few bad apples....sorry, I will not buy into it and I will
> encourage everyone I can to vote any such public official out of office
that
> even considers this childish approach to solving a problem. This
mentality
> works in the military, where a couple of goof ups end up getting the crap
> beat out of them so the entire unit no longer has to suffer for their
> screwups. Unfortunately, there are laws that prevent this concept from
> being applied in every day society. Should that change some day, I will
> consider helping clear out the bad apples. Until then, legal enforcement
is
> THE way to deal with it.
>
> Oh....and those stupid owls aren't all they are cracked up to be....taste
> just like chicken.
>
> Respectfully........Stu
> Stu Olson N7QJP
> Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
>
> http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
> http://home.off-road.com/~stu
> http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
> Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nnote [mailto:nnote@n...]
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 12:24 PM
> To: az_vjc@egroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] greenies etc.
>
> Every time we talk about staying on the trails and publicly rip into
someone
> for getting off the trail and tearing up the land we exhibit a bit of the
> greenies in all of us. The same thing goes for everytime we go on a
cleanup
> run. Everyone knows for a fact that you can't let one apple spoil the
> bunch. There are some crazies and sane people in every cause. I
personally
> feel that there needs to be some land closings. I have not been on one
> trail when due to the bad apple's there has been beer cans and shotgun
> shells everywhere. We can't prevent everyone from littering so for
awhile
> the only solution may be to keep people off. If left to human actions
this
> whole state would be overrun with abandoned-shotguned vehicles, beer cans
> and vandalized cacti. Not pretty. There would be no discipline. Even
as
> grown up's it's obvious that some people need someone or something to
> control behavior. We have a ton of nice trails open and available. I
think
> this state has room to set some land aside and preserve it. Also because
we
> have an opposing thumb doesn't mean we have the right to squash the
owl's.
> This land isn't ours and our Jeeps alone.
> Nick
> Nnote@n...
> Nnote@j...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________ _____
Say Bye to Slow Internet!
http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html
11834 From: William Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 4:25pm
Subject: Re: greenies etc.
Yeah, don't punish all us (BURP) beer drinkers. I throw my empties back into the cooler, crushed, so I don't try to grab it again! (BURP). I even pick up a few of the not so responsible drinker's trash while I enjoy a (BEEELLLCCHH) cold one. Hell, If it weren't for one of us Booze drinkin', gun totin', fun lovin' good ol' boys, that ZJ would still be in the hole it was in a month ago.
I guess we could pick on anyone's bad habits or behavior traits. The real answer lies in what we as individuals choose to do.
Everyone who has a RIGHT to enjoy what they want, has a RESPONSIBILITY to make sure it doesn't negatively impact the rights of others.
People have a RIGHT to let me or anyone else know when my or anyone else's behavior is jeopardizing their RIGHTS, so I or anyone else can remove themselves from the situation.
Where the 1st problem comes in, is these idiots weren't taught any better from their role models, parents etc, or, they just flat out refuse to acknowledge the difference between right and wrong.
The 2nd problem comes in when, we as a society are so LAZY, we don't want to search for a solution that punishes the guilty and allows the innocent to enjoy their freedom.... NOOOO, It's EASIER to just say "close it, that'll teach them" I mean, after all, if it doesn't affect you..... what do you have to lose by it?
Someday, it will affect you, because what goes around comes around, and when it's your turn, and there is no one there to help you fight your personal injustice, you'll wonder why, and if you are smart, you'll figure it out. It's because you weren't there for the "other guy".
One thing I can't understand, the majority of you come from different states where you had limited access and you know what that's about, now you want to change it to that here? FOOLS!
BTW, I'm native to Phoenix.....
Once again, these opinions are my own, and do not reflect those of the AZVJC, so if you got a problem with them, we can agree to disagree or discuss it further between us.
BTW, No real flames intended or implied.
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
----- Original Message -----
From: Stu Olson
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 1:48 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] greenies etc.
Sorry Nick, I can't buy into anything you said.
Do you honestly believe that by closing off the land, it will teach the beer can tossers and baby diaper droppers a lesson? Come on....that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard! I can hear them now, "Gosh Bob (burp)....look, they closed our favorite beer drinking trail! (burp...burp) What are we to do? Hey, we had better go to your place tonight and litter up your front yard. Maybe in a year or two, they will open it back up and we can start tossing out beer cans again. (burp)"
So the theory is.....close the trails so those that do not litter (and carry out the stuff from those that do) can not go recreate with their friends and families. Wow....now that is an idea. That is about as good as "People drink and drive on the highways. Therefore, we should close some freeways, highways, roads, and streets for a couple of years to teach them a lesson."
Nick...this is not a flame at you. But your thoughts on punishing everyone because of a few bad apples....sorry, I will not buy into it and I will encourage everyone I can to vote any such public official out of office that even considers this childish approach to solving a problem. This mentality works in the military, where a couple of goof ups end up getting the crap beat out of them so the entire unit no longer has to suffer for their screwups. Unfortunately, there are laws that prevent this concept from being applied in every day society. Should that change some day, I will consider helping clear out the bad apples. Until then, legal enforcement is THE way to deal with it.
Oh....and those stupid owls aren't all they are cracked up to be....taste just like chicken.
Respectfully........Stu
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
-----Original Message-----
From: Nnote [mailto:nnote@neta.com]
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 12:24 PM
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] greenies etc.
Every time we talk about staying on the trails and publicly rip into someone for getting off the trail and tearing up the land we exhibit a bit of the greenies in all of us. The same thing goes for everytime we go on a cleanup run. Everyone knows for a fact that you can't let one apple spoil the bunch. There are some crazies and sane people in every cause. I personally feel that there needs to be some land closings. I have not been on one trail when due to the bad apple's there has been beer cans and shotgun shells everywhere. We can't prevent everyone from littering so for awhile the only solution may be to keep people off. If left to human actions this whole state would be overrun with abandoned-shotguned vehicles, beer cans and vandalized cacti. Not pretty. There would be no discipline. Even as grown up's it's obvious that some people need someone or something to control behavior. We have a ton of nice trails open and available. I think this state has room to set some land aside and preserve it. Also because we have an opposing thumb doesn't mean we have the right to squash the owl's. This land isn't ours and our Jeeps alone.
Nick
Nnote@neta.com
Nnote@juno.com
11835 From: William Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 4:28pm
Subject: Re: RE: greenies etc.
I'm With all that, Mike.
Good Job.
Bill Mish
Yldkat
1955 Willys CJ3B
http://drive.to/yldkat55
----- Original Message -----
From: Chatfield, Mike
To: 'az_vjc@egroups.com'
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 2:59 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] RE: greenies etc.
Sorry this isn't meant to be a flame, but it is gonna sting a little.
"Every time we talk about staying on the trails and publicly rip into
someone for getting off the trail and tearing up the land we exhibit a bit
of the greenies in all of us."
Part of our responsibility as OHV owners and Public Land Users is to educate
those new to our sport; this may include tactfully "ripping" into someone
about proper land use. If we stand by and watch as they drive off the trail
and tear up the side of a hill they have no business climbing in the first
place, then we are just as guilty as they are. Proper education of OHV users
should be the foundation of our fight against the EcoTerrorists.
"Everyone knows for a fact that you can't let one apple spoil the bunch.
There are some crazies and sane people in every cause. I personally feel
that there needs to be some land closings. I have not been on one trail when
due to the bad apples there has been beer cans and shotgun shells
everywhere. We can't prevent everyone from littering so for awhile the only
solution may be to keep people off."
First you say that you can't let one bad apple spoil the bunch, and then you
say roads should be closed to prevent those idiots from littering up the
countryside. One thing you have to realize is just because the roads are
"closed" doesn't mean that these idiots are going to stop their behavior;
they're still going to drive out there (or somewhere) and drink their beer
and litter up the place. The only thing you've accomplished is closing the
trail to families who have a legitimate right to be there. In addition, it
is usually areas with relatively easy access that have the most trash. In
other words it's not OHV users that are doing this; it is idiots from the
city out in their mom's car, coming out to drink in the middle of nowhere so
they don't get caught because they are underage. Also closing trails will
only increase traffic on the existing trails; then the Greenies will want to
close those trails because of all the damage being done. Soon you'll ask
someone if they've 4 wheeled in Arizona and they'll say "yea, I did all 4
trails in that state."
"If left to human actions this whole state would be overrun with abandoned
shot-gunned vehicles, beer cans and vandalized cacti. Not pretty. There
would be no discipline."
If left to HUMAN actions? I'd hesitate to call the morons who leave this
kind of trash humans. If left to HUMANS, like everyone I've met from AZVJC
on the trails there would be no need for "clean-ups" because we pack out
what we pack in. We take it upon ourselves to clean up the 50+ years of
trash build up in the desert because we care enough about our land to use it
responsibly and do what we need to keep it open for our children's children.
"We have a ton of nice trails open and available. I think this state has
room to set some land aside and preserve it."
The state has set a lot of land aside; all of the land between trails is off
limits to us. Not to mention places where wilderness areas have been
declared, closing existing roads and trails. There is a lot of land out
there without a single tire track on it. There are places where humans have
not stepped foot for hundreds of years, if ever. Existing roads and trails
do not need to be closed to preserve the land.
"Also because we have an opposing thumb doesn't mean we have the right to
squash the owl's. This land isn't ours and our Jeeps alone."
No the land doesn't belong to OHV, it belongs to Ranchers, Hunters, Hikers,
Bikers, Plants, Animals, Insects, Spiders, etc... When there is a valid
endangered species that needs protection, I don't have any problem with
that. However I do have a problem with EcoTerrorists trying to invent
species. Geographical location does not make a new species (as with the
spotted pigmy owl), skin blemishes and discolored hair does not make a new
species, yet EcoTerrorists will swear up and down that these are new species
because of these differences. If this were the case, then there would be
thousands of species of "Human."
My 2.5 cents worth,
- Mike
11836 From: Keith D. Orr <korr@z...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 4:20pm
Subject: Say Hello! New Member Question?
Hey Gang,
My son and I have a friend here in Safford that has recently joined the
az_vjc club, and would like to ask you all a question. This is pertaining to
a Jeep Commando/Comanche????? , any ways, you Jeep Lifer's probably know
what I mean. He has the 232 Inline 6 cyl., with a Dana 44 in the rear and
Dana 30 in the front. He is not sure what he has otherwise. He has just
purchased this vehicle not to long ago. He is a young man of 20 years, and
is in need of some good Jeeper experience. He would like to know if it is a
good idea to weld the rear axles to make a spool, or is it better to put in
a locker. Here is his letter:
I JUST CHECKED MY EMAIL TODAY AND I HAD 18 NEW MESSAGES.
I'M SORRY THAT I DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO COME BY ON SATURDAY TO TAKE YOU OUT
FOUR-WHEELING. I KNOW IT MUST BE KILLING YOU.
I SUDDENLY GOT THE URGE TO GO WELD MY REAR END INSTEAD OF BUYING A LOCKER.
I KNOW WE TALKED ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT BUT I WANTED TO GET YOUR INFO AS
WELL AS SOME PEOPLE IN THE CLUB TO SEE WHERE THEY STAND ON THE SUBJECT. IF
YOU COULD WRITE THE GROUP AND HAVE THEM GET BACK WITH ME OR YOU CAN WRITE ME
BACK THAN I'D APPRECIATE IT. IF THEY ADVISE AGAINST IT THEN FIND OUT WHAT
WOULD BE THE BEST LOCKER FOR IT AS FAR AS QUALITY AND PRICE. JUST A
REMINDER THAT I HAVE A DANA 44 WITH 30 X 11.5 ON IT AND MY ENGINE IS THE
232. IF YOU COULD GET BACK WITH ME THAT WOULD BE COOL.
And here is his e-mail address: jones_chad_13@h...
I would suggest that he uses a lock-rite or some other less expensive locker
for right now, if it is due to a money situation, but I am an XJ'er and
before that Chevy 4x4. If you get the chance say hello to Chad at the above
address, or if possible, give him some advice on the Dana 44. You will get
the chance to meet Chad at the Sept. run to be held in Safford that is in
the planning right now. Thanks to all for your help in advance.........
Casper
11837 From: <grafik_lar@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 4:19pm
Subject: Greenies
Check out this list of Terrorism. Someone said that they are not all
that bad, well I am on a mission now.
http://www.tao.ca/~ban/ar.htm