Tip Top Mine: a few scenes 12/11/04

[highjeeps]

Sorry for the low quality photos. Gotta get a decent camera for Christmas.
http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=625&stc=1
On the way to Tip Top Mine from the south.
http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=626&stc=1
...
http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=627&stc=1
Building just south of the junction of Tip Top Mine trail and trail east to river crossing.
http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=628&stc=1
Saguaro jungle.
http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=629&stc=1
Lots of these crossings coming in from the south.
http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=630&stc=1
Fall colors.
http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=631&stc=1
Ranch northwest of Tip Top Mine.
http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=632&stc=1
Way above Tip Top. That's Lake Pleasant out there.

I think the road I was on here continues on to Crown King. I've never been that way before, but gotta try it sometime. I turned back about this point (was late afternoon) and crossed back over the river after dark with a group of early Broncos (or IHs) chasing me ... or maybe they were lost in the dark, too, and just looking for the way out. ;)

EDIT: I mistakenly referred to the lake in the last photo as Saguaro when actually it is Lake Pleasant, of course.

[highjeeps]

Reached my size limit ... guess no more photos.

[DsrtJeeper]

Nice pics! It was a great weekend in AZ...... :)

[highjeeps]

Nice pics! It was a great weekend in AZ...... :)

Definitely chamber of commerce weather for sure.

[joe johnson]

where is tip top mine at? Its not in any of my guides.
It looks like a great place that my wife would love to see

[highjeeps]

where is tip top mine at? Its not in any of my guides.
It looks like a great place that my wife would love to see

Tip Top Mine is west (or northwest) of the Table Mesa staging area (which is off I17 between New River and Black Canyon City), and in the direction of the Bradshaw Mtns. You have to cross over the river and travel 5 or 10 miles on a 2.0 rated (approx) trail. The trail continues way above and beyond the Tip Top Mine and perhaps all the way to Horsethief Basin(?) and on to Crown King. Its really scenic when you get way up there (see last photo).

EDIT: Corrected to call it Horsethief Basin, not Horseshoe Basin.

[Wind_Danzer]

Oh, oh, oh.... I wanna go!!! :D

Looks very nice and I could use a wheelin' fix (in my own Jeep). ;)

[highjeeps]

For anyone that was confused by my typo, the last photo shows Lake Pleasant, not Saguaro Lake. :eek: Sorry for that.

[Wind_Danzer]

For anyone that was confused by my typo, the last photo shows Lake Pleasant, not Saguaro Lake. :eek: Sorry for that.

I was going to say that looked an awful like a pic I took a few weeks back on the CC run. ;)

[yldkat]

One of the trails I still want to run, Your pics helped reconvince me I need to do it!
BTW, I think the road out of Tip Top into Crown King hits some kind of Forest preserve, and no longer goes through, Doesn't it?

[highjeeps]

One of the trails I still want to run, Your pics helped reconvince me I need to do it!
BTW, I think the road out of Tip Top into Crown King hits some kind of Forest preserve, and no longer goes through, Doesn't it?

I didn't go that far, so I can't say. I still want to see for myself sometime soon.

[yldkat]

Let me know when you go, I'm interested in going too.

[highjeeps]

Let me know when you go, I'm interested in going too.

Will do...

[luvrocks]

that road will take you to milk ranch were you will end up turning around,it use to go to crown king but it is very overgrown and not passable any more!!!

[Wind_Danzer]

Ohhh, that would be cool to see. :) I love roads that end up stopping in the middle of nowhere.

[Woody]

that road will take you to milk ranch were you will end up turning around,it use to go to crown king but it is very overgrown and not passable any more!!!

Actually, you can go on past Milk Ranch, but it does eventually end on a high ridge above the backroad to Crown King. The road does not go through. It's actually the road you see off to the right, going up the side of the mountain, just before you get to the ledge at Oro Belle, when going up the backside to CK.

There is no real connection to Horsethief Basin either. There is a road that comes out near the heliport up there, but the hillclimb to get up it is one nasty mutha! There's a few people on this board who've tried it, and won't ever again.

Woody

[Wind_Danzer]

So that road on the side of the mountain actually is reachable, just it dead ends there. Cool. :)

So what is so special about the hillclimb you mention that strikes fear into some? :D

[highjeeps]

where is tip top mine at? Its not in any of my guides.
It looks like a great place that my wife would love to see

Check this out
http://www.azhiddentreasures.com/TipTop.htm

[highjeeps]

Actually, you can go on past Milk Ranch, but it does eventually end on a high ridge above the backroad to Crown King. The road does not go through. It's actually the road you see off to the right, going up the side of the mountain, just before you get to the ledge at Oro Belle, when going up the backside to CK.

There is no real connection to Horsethief Basin either. There is a road that comes out near the heliport up there, but the hillclimb to get up it is one nasty mutha! There's a few people on this board who've tried it, and won't ever again.

Woody

Are you sure about the trail north out of Tip Top Mine intersects at the Ora Bella Mine? According to this topo map, it looks like its well to the east and does go into Horsethief Basin in the vicinity of Horsethief Lake.
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=34.1514&lon=-112.2836&s=100&size=l&symshow=n&u=7&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25

[Marv Miller]

Are you sure about the trail north out of Tip Top Mine intersects at the Ora Bella Mine? According to this topo map, it looks like its well to the east and does go into Horsethief Basin in the vicinity of Horsethief Lake.

A buddy & I tried this run a few weeks ago. According to our map, the trail comes out near East Fort (Indian ruins) close to Horsethief Lake. We got to Milk Ranch and stopped. The trail up and beyond is very overgrown & does not see much, if any full-size vehicle travel. It is easy to miss, have to go through a corral. Quads or bikes could make it no prob (?). It was difficult for us to face the fact that we had gone this far, only to be shut down and forced to turn around. There is another trail from this point that heads East across the creek (follows Joe's Ridge for aways) and comes out down towards Table Mesa area. We did not follow this one (yet).

On another trip in October, we located the trailhead at the top, near East Fort, coming down to Tiptop. We may try to start at the top sometime, and come down, to see how far we can get. Like yldkat said above, there may be a forest preserve or something blocking through-travel. Lots of interesting history in this area. Here's a link:
http://www.azuho.com/depts/outdoors/quigley_tiptop01.html

[Brad]

The road Woody is talking about starts about 1/4 to 1/2 mile west of the Milk Ranch at the turn at the bottom of the hill. It’s very easy to miss but does indeed go up to a high ridge above the Oro Belle.

The road that starts at the Milk Ranch and goes up towards Horse Thief Basin is also difficult to spot and is overgrown to the point that the branches and brush scrape you even while walking the trail. It is my understanding that the area between the Milk Ranch and Horse Thief Basin is designated wilderness area.

The road heading east out of the Milk Ranch eventually comes to a tee. If you turn right it will take you across the canyon and back to the five way intersection by Packer. If you turn left it will take you along the top of the mountains above Black Canyon City and eventually exit where you go through the two gates south of Tip Top Mine.

I like to run the loop that goes past the Milk Ranch starting at Packer then turning right across the canyon and Boulder Creek then dropping down the steep hill to the Milk Ranch. Be advised that the last time I ran the loop in that direction with a group, everyone who did not have lockers needed a tug in a couple of spots. With lockers it’s not a problem, I’ve ran it alone many times without any difficulty. The south loop is not as difficult and there is no need for lockers.

Brad

[highjeeps]

I think I may have stumbled upon Milk Ranch, but I'm not sure. This place is at a high altitude relative to Tip Top Mine (same altitude as the last photo shot with Lake Pleasant in the distance). When I came up to the top of the hill from the climb out of the creek bottom just past Tip Top, the road splits three ways. One path heads right, down the hill into the bottom of the canyon and climbs up the other side (northeasterly direction). Another path goes sharply left (west) straight up the hill some more, and then off in a northwesterly direction along the ridge. The third branch goes level around the hill towards the left (westerly) for a short ways (1/8 mile?) and ends at a few small structures nestled in the crevis (a creek wash) where there is a windmill, some kind of storage shed, a cabin of sorts, and another adjacent shed. Is this Milk Ranch?

[Brad]

That would be Packer. To get to the Milk Ranch you take the road to the left of the one that goes to Packer. It will continue climbing for several miles then go down the North side of the mountain. The Milk Ranch is beside Boulder Creek.

Brad

edit: After reading your post again I think you were at the working ranch not too far past the Tip Top Mine. Packer is quite a ways north of the working ranch just past a five way intersection.

[Brad]

Here's a picture of Packer and one of the Milk Ranch.

HTH
Brad

[highjeeps]

Here's a picture of Packer and one of the Milk Ranch.

HTH
Brad

OK. I just got done studying the topo map and concluded that it must have been Packer, then checked out your photos and confirmed it.
Thanks.

[yldkat]

How long does it take to get from Table Mesa to Packer? How about to Milk Ranch?

[Brad]

It's been a long time since I timed it but if you travel at a decent rate of speed with no breaks you can probably make it to Packer in a couple of hours, maybe less, and another hour or so to the Milk Ranch. Figure some extra time if your rig is stock unless you don't mind beating yourself up. The road is not difficult but can get a little rough.

If there's any interest in running the loop from Packer around the back way through the Milk Ranch I'd be glad to lead a run. The trail is fun and very scenic. It's an all day run and although I spent a lot of time trimming the trees and brush earlier this year it's still likely that you will get some AZ pinstriping (the trail doesn't get much use and the branches had grown all the way across the trail in a lot of areas). We would need to be at the air down spot by around 7am and count on getting back after dark depending on the size of the group and how many breaks we take. I may be able to do it on New Years day or the day after, not sure yet. Let me know and I'll post it in this thread.

Brad

[Rioshilo]

I'd like to go back up there too. The last time I was up there, the view from the top above BCC was awesome. It was kind of cloudy and the sun was coming through in beams, highlighting parts of the platueas across the way. Very cool. It was one of those Grand Canyon kind of photo moments.

[highjeeps]

If there's any interest in running the loop from Packer around the back way through the Milk Ranch I'd be glad to lead a run. ... I may be able to do it on New Years day or the day after, not sure yet. Let me know and I'll post it in this thread.

Brad

I'd be interested, if I don't get up there sooner than that (i.e., sooner than New Years day), and maybe even if I do :D.

[yldkat]

I too would be interested.

[DougB]

One of the trails I still want to run, Your pics helped reconvince me I need to do it!
BTW, I think the road out of Tip Top into Crown King hits some kind of Forest preserve, and no longer goes through, Doesn't it?

That trail to CK no longer goes through. It dead ends at Milk Ranch (well north of Tip Top) and becomes a hiking trail through the National Forest, up to Horse Thief. However, if you head up hill west of Milk Ranch (at Five Points) you'll hit a trail that ends at a mine site, and there's an old mine road/trail there that's washed out, that connects with the Lake Pleasant/CK trail. It would take a bit of work, but that old mine road could be made passable again. Been wanting to get back up there.

[Brad]

That trail to CK no longer goes through. It dead ends at Milk Ranch (well north of Tip Top) and becomes a hiking trail through the National Forest, up to Horse Thief. However, if you head up hill west of Milk Ranch (at Five Points) you'll hit a trail that ends at a mine site, and there's an old mine road/trail there that's washed out, that connects with the Lake Pleasant/CK trail. It would take a bit of work, but that old mine road could be made passable again. Been wanting to get back up there.

I'm game. Of course it will need to be a seperate trip from the loop trail, not enough time to do both in one day.

Brad

[highjeeps]

... It would take a bit of work, but that old mine road could be made passable again. ...
That would be great ... also would add another optional route for the annual AZVJC Crown King run for those bored with the usual trail. I would help out with that.

[Rioshilo]

Bringing this thread back up to the top. Is there still interest in doing this loop in the next couple of days? Maybe getting an early start on saturday and running out past tip top to the top of the loop near Black Canyon City.

Rio

[Brad]

I had planned to go this weekend but have a pretty severe transfer case leak that I need to address first. :mad: I'm going to take a look at it tomorrow and if by chance I get it fixed I'll be ready for the run, but I kind of doubt it will be that easy. As soon as it's fixed I'll post in this thread to see if there's still some interest.

Have a good day
Brad

[DsrtJeeper]

I had planned to go this weekend but have a pretty severe transfer case leak that I need to address first. :mad: I'm going to take a look at it tomorrow and if by chance I get it fixed I'll be ready for the run, but I kind of doubt it will be that easy. As soon as it's fixed I'll post in this thread to see if there's still some interest.

Have a good day
Brad

Brad;
Is the leak coming out the tailshaft? The early Rubicons had a known issue with this. Maybe Flexy can chime in here.

[Brad]

Thanks DsrtJeeper. Yes, it's leaking from the tailshaft. There's a TSB about it and lots of info on the Rubi board. There is a redesigned tailshaft housing and an updated seal which has been getting replaced under warranty. I'm hoping that I can do the work myself and just get the parts replaced under warranty. I probably should let the dealer fix it but I just don't trust 'em, I'm afraid they will create three new problems while fixing the one. At least that has been my experience in the past with other vehicles...

Flexy works right next door to me so I bug him often. LOL

Have a good day
Brad

[westy]

Alright I've read over this thread, scoured topo maps and talked with several people regarding this trail that heads WEST near the 5 points area just south of Milk Ranch, passing Mormon Tank (if i remember correct) and heads towards Oro Belle area.

I've heard conflicting stories, some saying its passable with some trail work; others saying NO. What kind of work is involved? Someone mentioned a 'hole' was dug by a backhoe??

Some first hand knowledge would be helpful. In the past, did the trail ever connect to the main Crown King backroad?

Thanks,
Brian

[joedokes28]

I've been to tip top mine and the mines past tip top where all of the equipment is several times.

How does one get to milk ranch?

I'd be interested in going out and doing some exploring with others if there's interest.

[westy]

There is a topo map link on page 2 of this thread and Milk Ranch, Tip Top, etc are all noted on the map.

Milk Ranch is located north of Tip Top.

[DougB]

Alright I've read over this thread, scoured topo maps and talked with several people regarding this trail that heads WEST near the 5 points area just south of Milk Ranch, passing Mormon Tank (if i remember correct) and heads towards Oro Belle area.

I've heard conflicting stories, some saying its passable with some trail work; others saying NO. What kind of work is involved? Someone mentioned a 'hole' was dug by a backhoe??

Some first hand knowledge would be helpful. In the past, did the trail ever connect to the main Crown King backroad?

Thanks,
Brian

Yes - it used to connect to the Lake Pleasant/CK trail, but it's washed out and overgrown. I've hiked part of it - to the big washout, but haven't hiked it all the way to the CK trail - but I think I know where it hits it.

[westy]

Doug - how bad is the washout? Is it repairable?

I may take a look this weekend from the Oro Belle side.

[joedokes28]

There is a topo map link on page 2 of this thread and Milk Ranch, Tip Top, etc are all noted on the map.

Milk Ranch is located north of Tip Top.

I need to buy that topo map because I can't read that one at all and I have a 20" LCD on my desk.

Let us know what you find if you go out there.

[DougB]

Doug - how bad is the washout? Is it repairable?

I may take a look this weekend from the Oro Belle side.

I believe that it comes out down by OroBelle, as I recall. It's been about 5 years since I was there. I'd be up for a camping and exploratory to check it out some time from the Milk Ranch side. Maybe this spring...

As to the washout...anything's repairable - so I think it is, but I don't know how bad the trail is on down the hill from the wash out.

Where it's washed out is at a fairly steep part of the hill. It'd take some work.

[TomHatch]

The trail continues way above and beyond the Tip Top Mine and perhaps all the way to Horsethief Basin(?) and on to Crown King.

If you travel from Crown King towards Horsethief Basin you will pass a sign that says "Tip Top" and points towards a trail that drops off the mountain.

[Kiwi]

The trail at Horsethief is Horseback/Hiking only. I think motorcycles/ATVs have used it, but it's rather small for vehicles.

Been out to Milk Ranch a few times, and have taken that trail that overlooks the CK trail. There is one big nasty hill on the way out there (downhill going there - up hill coming back). But, there is really no trail anymore going down to the CK trail, even though the topo map show it

[Desertjeep]

Been wanting to get back up there.

Sounds like some fun. Please keep me in mind if you end up going.

[DougB]

Sounds like some fun. Please keep me in mind if you end up going.

Hey there Joey! Will do. Maybe sometime this spring.

[Wildcat455]

Hey there Joey! Will do. Maybe sometime this spring.

Doug,
Been a while man, How are you?!!
I actually think I know a way... Stumbled on it camping with the wife, be happy to share it with you, and would love to get on the trail with you again.
I'd like to pre run it with quads or something first to make sure about what we are getting into, because at the top where it joins up with the CK trail it seems narrow... Problem is, I don't think quads will make it up from the CK side, they might need Jeeps along as the road is pretty fawking steep!!
And, since from the top is the only way I'm sure about, I'm assuming that would be best.

Anyway, this would definitely be worth researching a little more...

[DougB]

Doug,
Been a while man, How are you?!!
I actually think I know a way... Stumbled on it camping with the wife, be happy to share it with you, and would love to get on the trail with you again.
I'd like to pre run it with quads or something first to make sure about what we are getting into, because at the top where it joins up with the CK trail it seems narrow... Problem is, I don't think quads will make it up from the CK side, they might need Jeeps along as the road is pretty fawking steep!!
And, since from the top is the only way I'm sure about, I'm assuming that would be best.

Anyway, this would definitely be worth researching a little more...

Hey there Bill! Been a while. I've been out and about. Haven't wheeled much this past summer, but I'm making up for lost time now....

I'd love to get back up above Milk Ranch and work the trail down to the CK trail. I agree, from the top on down would be the best way to go. Quads would work, but your right...it is steep and narrow. I figure a good hike or quad trip is in order to scope it out.

Maybe when it warms up a bit.

Happy Trails....

[Wildcat455]

Hey there Bill! Been a while. I've been out and about. Haven't wheeled much this past summer, but I'm making up for lost time now....

I'd love to get back up above Milk Ranch and work the trail down to the CK trail. I agree, from the top on down would be the best way to go. Quads would work, but your right...it is steep and narrow. I figure a good hike or quad trip is in order to scope it out.

Maybe when it warms up a bit.

Happy Trails....

Cool Doug, let's keep in touch for this one!

[westy]

Keep me posted as well on this one, I'll be looking to get out there this spring and I'll bring a dirt bike along to scout ahead.
I should have my onboard pc navigation system ready as well with aerial photomaps and topo's in the next month or so.

I hope you dont mind a Toyota owner :)

[DougB]

Cool Doug, let's keep in touch for this one!

ubetcha......

[DougB]

Keep me posted as well on this one, I'll be looking to get out there this spring and I'll bring a dirt bike along to scout ahead.
I should have my onboard pc navigation system ready as well with aerial photomaps and topo's in the next month or so.

I hope you dont mind a Toyota owner :)

Will do. BTW, some of my best friends have toys :o)

[Wildcat455]

Will do. BTW, some of my best friends have toys :o)

What kind of... OK, Doug... Moving on... :D


Keep me posted as well on this one, I'll be looking to get out there this spring and I'll bring a dirt bike along to scout ahead.
I should have my onboard pc navigation system ready as well with aerial photomaps and topo's in the next month or so.

I hope you dont mind a Toyota owner


Pfft, you got a Toy?? :rolleyes:















































Allright, you can go, but we may have to strap an abandoned car to your bumper so you don't make us look bad... :D


This will work out good actually, does the Motorcycle fit in back of your Toyota, or do you tow it out?

[westy]

haha. abandoned car...sounds good, or your jeep at the end of a strap :D

the dirt bike is my roomates, xr600. Its licensed, he mentioned of driving it out instead of his 4runner, I'm sure I could fit it in the bed of my rig if need be.

Once it warms up alittle, maybe March...camp for a night...whatever it takes.

[Wildcat455]

cool. Let's do it.

[rsliman]

Has anyoone found the way to CK.... is the trail too overgrown?

[DougB]

Has anyoone found the way to CK.... is the trail too overgrown?

The original trail went up from Milk Ranch to Horse Thief, and then to CK, but it's closed to motorized vehicles and only a hiking trail now.

There's a side trail at 5 Points that takes you to a ridge where they did mine exploration, and there's a badly washed out and overgrown trail that makes it's way past some mining spots, down to the Lake Pleasant/CK trail, but it's never been reopened or fixed. Impassible at this point.

[westy]

DougB - I am still game for exploring and possibly fixing the old trail this fall.

[DougB]

DougB - I am still game for exploring and possibly fixing the old trail this fall.

Sounds good to me. Might make a nice overnight camping trip when it gets cooler.

[Desertjeep]

did someone say camping??

[highjeeps]

For anyone that's never seen Milk Ranch, here are a few pics I took when I was up there in May,
Looking in the direction of the trail (no vehicles allowed) that goes to Horsethief Basin
http://aycu29.webshots.com/image/828/1332297934368930013_rs.jpg
Little white shack looking east (notice road up the hill, I think this is called Joe's Ridge)
http://aycu08.webshots.com/image/2847/1424051809403621432_rs.jpg
Again, looking south
http://aycu14.webshots.com/image/3253/1402707971609748393_rs.jpg
Driving up Joe's ridge (looking west, Milk Ranch is down at the bottom)
http://aycu29.webshots.com/image/908/1170395020215638303_rs.jpg
Again going up Joe's Ridge, looking NE
http://aycu08.webshots.com/image/847/1074085413680021057_rs.jpg
I didn't go much further up that hill, but went back towards the west past a spring and to a dead end look out point that overlooks Copper Basin (I think that's what its called).

[westy]

I believe that trail up Joe's Ridge ends up looping back around to Tip Top, but only gets worse the further it is traveled. Supposedly there is a sign? saying lockers required

[DougB]

I believe that trail up Joe's Ridge ends up looping back around to Tip Top, but only gets worse the further it is traveled. Supposedly there is a sign? saying lockers required

A number of years ago, I took that trail as far as the manzanita would let me. Not sure if it still goes anywhere. Got pretty overgrown. Looks like, at one point, a section of the trail looped back down to the wash/canyon that Milk Ranch is in (down canyon).

[highjeeps]

I believe that trail up Joe's Ridge ends up looping back around to Tip Top, but only gets worse the further it is traveled. Supposedly there is a sign? saying lockers required

I've driven up that road before a few times, starts below Tip Top (at the intersection within the fenced in area) but didn't go as far as I could have. I went to a spot overlooking BCC, just past the intersection where a trail looks like it heads down into BCC (there is a sign stating the the trail is a dead-end). Killer scenery up there, for sure.:)
http://aycu21.webshots.com/image/2500/1106322919814996194_rs.jpg

I, in fact, broke my leg back in 2005 at the creek crossing on that trail. It was after the rains and the waters were high. I was hiking over the rocks to cross the creek, slipped and broke my femor(sp) bone. I was able to drive out and all they way to back home where I called an ambulance to take me to the hospital. :eek:
http://aycu19.webshots.com/image/2778/1386028913722890263_rs.jpg