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Doc in AZ
01-18-2010, 09:09 PM
every time a thread comes up about thievery someone mentions something along the lines of "i wish i had a gun", "they should be shot", "hang 'em high" etc.

i just want to hear from someone the satisfaction they've had killing someone. i'm not saying that thieves should be set free, or that they shouldn't be punished.

i just want to hear from somebody that they felt good about taking a life.

i'm not trying to start some political debate, or something about ethics... only personal experience.

keep in mind this is posted by a guy with 5 tours in iraq with the special forces teams as a blackhawk crew chief / door gunner.

85LAREDOCJ7
01-18-2010, 09:26 PM
OK...point well taken....but they do it because nothing happends to them. They go to jail, get released, and they go back to where ever they came from. Come back later and do it again. I'm tired of having to keep my house like a fortress and look over both shoulders when I go somewhere. These people are out of control...

zjfabn
01-18-2010, 09:36 PM
every time a thread comes up about thievery someone mentions something along the lines of "i wish i had a gun", "they should be shot", "hang 'em high" etc.

i just want to hear from someone the satisfaction they've had killing someone. i'm not saying that thieves should be set free, or that they shouldn't be punished.

i just want to hear from somebody that they felt good about taking a life.

i'm not trying to start some political debate, or something about ethics... only personal experience.

keep in mind this is posted by a guy with 5 tours in iraq with the special forces teams as a blackhawk crew chief / door gunner.

What led you to be a door gunner? :confused: Im just sayin...

roadrashmike
01-18-2010, 10:00 PM
Well said Doc, People today think its easy to take/end someones life.I know from experience it is not easy to take someone life. I`m not talking about war here. That's justifiable.Kill or be killed. But want to kill a person for stealing your stuff. Com-on, I`ve owned hand guns for the 32 years I`ve lived here in the big AZ. And believe if I "HAD TOO" I could & would,but you would have to do something my family to get me to that point. N ow beating the snot out of someone, there's a good chance for that happening for stealing.I value my freedom too much to kill for a unjust cause.:angel:

Doc in AZ
01-18-2010, 10:09 PM
What led you to be a door gunner? :confused: Im just sayin...

when i enlisted i wanted to fly. i went into helicopter repair which led to being a door gunner through flight training, then to being a crew chief and being assigned my own aircraft. as a crew chief there is a gun in front of you as you fly. the only time i didn't have an M60 in front of me on a flight was when i was on the controls.

but asking me why i was a door gunner is like asking why anyone joins the army. your first basic duty is be a combat soldier. "basic training" is based on soldering skills, military customs and weapon training. regardles of MOS, if all else fails you are "trained to kill people and break *****".

in my line of duty when we deployed my job was to maintain my aircraft and log book, handle safe passage of soldiers, cargo and sling loads...

like i said, i was in a quick reaction unit and i worked primarily with the special forces group, we weren't delivering Avon to housewives if you know what i mean.

some may remember april of 94 when the 2 american F16's shot down 2 american blackhawks over the no fly zone in northern iraq... that was my unit and part of the mission i flew daily... i wasn't on that deployment.

howhypno
01-18-2010, 11:47 PM
Great point Doc,
I have owned guns most of my life and have them around the house. I know it's easy to say "just kill em" but the emotions involved with that thought process aren't as easy to identify.
I agree that something needs to be done but to take a life doesn't seem to be the answer.
Now beating them almost senseless...that makes more sense to me! Just make sure they have enough brain cells left to remember why they were beat in the first place!

Just my .02 that no one cares about.

CrazyKen

xjcrawlr
01-19-2010, 10:36 AM
I was able to confront the man who stole my truck. I wanted to beat him senceless, but I didn't want to shoot him....at least not dead anyways!

What I would LOVE to do if I ever see him outside a courtroom is break every bone in his hands so badly he could never steal again, much less drive a vehicle.

azshtr
01-19-2010, 10:49 AM
Standing up to someone and saying "your not taking my stuff" is the way we all should be. If they choose to escalate that to a life threatening issue it's up to them. Knowing I am carrying is a comfort. I won't defend my stuff with a gun, I will defend my life, it's their choice. If they choose to run fine, come at me it's another story. But I'm not going to stand there and not confront them.

edit: didn't intend to use less than nice words

edit: And I'll add to the last sentence... "and I'm not going to confront them unarmed"

lancetkenyon
01-19-2010, 10:50 AM
If this thread gets in the least bit ugly, it is gone. Just a notice to play nice. 1 post and bye bye.

howhypno
01-19-2010, 10:55 AM
Standing up to someone and saying "your not taking my ****" is the way we all should be. If they choose to escalate that to a life threatening issue it's up to them. Knowing I am carrying is a comfort. I won't defend my **** with a gun, I will defend my life, it's their choice. If they choose to run fine, come at me it's another story. But I'm not going to stand there and not confront them.

X2!!
This I approve of completely. Defend your property with words/fists, defend your life with a gun.

TRobertsRN
01-19-2010, 10:26 PM
It is fortunate that we live in America in these times. It is only a small part of the population that has taken a life. So many times when someone reacts by saying hang em or shoot em they are not serious that they would do this or even know if they could. This can sometimes be unsetteling to those who have taken life. What usually is happening is frustration is high as to wishing something was being done to stop the crime in queston.

The taking of a life is never to be taken lightly. Just about any sane person who has done so puked the first time and depending on the situation maybe craped their pants. Soilders, gang bangers, and KKK members talk tough but the woman who does their laundry knows the truth.

The first time you take a shot at a human being is usually worse than any buck fever out deer hunting. Heart rate and breathing are so fast if you hit anything it is luck.

Again, taking life or even speaking of doing so is not to be taken lightly.


That being said. I am only 2 generations removed on both sides of my family from those that did shot and or hang those that sole from us. This was not just accepted but expected behavior if someone stole your horse, dog, wife, mule, corn, ham or whatever. Did they feel good about taking a life? Those that I knew would relate the story with a sadness of a task they had to do, not the pleasure they took.

It was the way of things at that time. Personally the only thing that would stop me from taking the life of someone right on the spot for stealing from me that which I earned with my honest hard work is that in todays world I could go to jail for it. Of course their are degrees, a loaf of bread vs my Jeep for instance. Without my Jeep in my present situation and the present economy I would lose my job, my house, and more. Guys steals bread I beat his *** and then buy him a beer and try to find him a job. Steal my Jeep expect a hole in the back of the head. Would I enjoy it, NO. Would I do it? I would make it my mission in life to hunt the bastard down and take his life for ruining mine.

My approach to crime is much like the character in my favorite book Without Remorse. Great book, instead of just killing the man who took his loved ones life, he tortures him and those above him until in the end the whole criminal group is dead.

Grandpa always said, don't point a gun unless you are going to shoot it, and don't talk about killing someone just do it.

I have seen the Elephant, I hope never to again.

Doc in AZ
01-20-2010, 06:20 AM
well put tom!!

4Lfever
01-20-2010, 07:45 AM
x2

luvitdurty
01-20-2010, 08:19 AM
FWIW ... in 02 i caught a guy IN my house... i had a .45 ruger that i carried.. i woke up to some noise in my front room... grabbed my gun.. slowly walked out.. cleared each room silently.. got to my front room to see someone setting stuff outside the window he came thru... as i told him to stop and put his hands where i could see him.. both hands came down to something around his chest... as he turned (mind u i couldnt see to well because its pitch black and the only light is coming from outside)... it looked to be a gun... i fired 2 rounds.. both hitting him and killing him.. when i turned the light on.. it was a TOY GUN. I called police... gave them my story.. no charges filled etc.. was self defense.

IT HAUNTS ME EVERY DAY!... No its NOT a good feeling regaurdless of the reason behind it.. BUT... as previously said... i will gaurd my life if i have to and with my family there... it was him or us. Would i do it again??? YES.... would i make sure its an ACTUAL gun... YES... but thats not something u think about at the time... i say many times.. ppl SHOULD be shot for it... kill them? NO... im old school... eye for an eye... steal from me.. i take your hands... to me that would be fair... just my .02!

lancetkenyon
01-20-2010, 09:30 AM
Steve, how would you have a chance to ascertain if it is a real gun or not? By the time you do, you will be face down in a pool of your own blood if it is real. I would say you made a righteous call. Very sorry you had to do that.

djui5
01-20-2010, 11:13 AM
So many times when someone reacts by saying hang em or shoot em they are not serious that they would do this or even know if they could.


This

/thread

stevekim7d2
01-20-2010, 11:31 AM
If you carry a gun, always carry a $30.00 Lithium battey powered flashlight, they are 4 inches long and light weight, get one at Bass Pro or anywhere, they are small and very powerful, very bright. You need to be able to see your target and what's behind it, and make sure it is not someone you know that maybe locked thier keys inside, or any other senario, This light is so bright they will be blinded, and you can see what they are doing, is there anyone else with them, and what are they doing, either surrendering or going for a weapon, always have a weapon and light,
Steve

azshtr
01-20-2010, 12:31 PM
If you carry a gun, always carry a $30.00 Lithium battey powered flashlight, they are 4 inches long and light weight, get one at Bass Pro or anywhere, they are small and very powerful, very bright. You need to be able to see your target and what's behind it, and make sure it is not someone you know that maybe locked thier keys inside, or any other senario, This light is so bright they will be blinded, and you can see what they are doing, is there anyone else with them, and what are they doing, either surrendering or going for a weapon, always have a weapon and light,
Steve

And hold the light in a non shooting hand, supporting the gun hand, OUT TO THE SIDE ! That light is now the target for any attack or return fire.

Luvitdrty, you did the right thing. "Would i make sure its an ACTUAL gun... YES" never second guess that decision! It could kill you next time. You felt threatened for your life by an intruder in your home... there is no second guessing on what you did.

behemothxj
01-20-2010, 03:34 PM
There is a mental change in this society that we should forgive every person who comits crime. But in India they cut off your hand for stealing to prove a point to others NOT to steal.

Also in countries like Nigeria and Pakistan people are executed by stoning for infidelity. They are a bit harsh,but it deters others. When anyone in this country comits a felony, we barely inflict punishment to deter them from doing the crime. We have become a nation who let political correctness run amuck.

If you knew that my punishment would only be seeing a probation officer once a month for stealing 10 cars,would you consider that a deterant? Because for a first time offender, you get a slap on the wrist and you are told "Naughty Naughty"..

azshtr
01-20-2010, 03:53 PM
Like Barney Fife said "Nip it! Nip it in the bud!"

SHNIPE
01-20-2010, 03:55 PM
Small time theivery and getting away with it will only lead to bigger jobs, bigger jobs bigger risk bigger risk the bigger the danger of getting an innocent killed. Criminals are criminals because they cannot live in a polite society. They do NOT belong in a polite society. They choose their own fate.

Bilt4Comfort
01-20-2010, 04:58 PM
I was drunk while camping 20 years ago, and threw a rock at a squirrel 30 feet up a tree...knocked him clean the **** out and he fell to the ground and I felt horrible. Thankfully...it was just a concussion and he woke up before I could throw him on the grill.

WalterD
01-20-2010, 05:35 PM
every time a thread comes up about thievery someone mentions something along the lines of "i wish i had a gun", "they should be shot", "hang 'em high" etc.



This isn't a responce to killing anyone but the comments made don't have to be taken literally. Like telling someone your going to "kick their ***" odds are the idea isn't to kick their ***. It's just an responce to being pissed off because you know you can't do anything about it.

TRobertsRN
01-20-2010, 09:05 PM
FWIW ... in 02 i caught a guy IN my house... i had a .45 ruger that i carried.. i woke up to some noise in my front room... grabbed my gun.. slowly walked out.. cleared each room silently.. got to my front room to see someone setting stuff outside the window he came thru... as i told him to stop and put his hands where i could see him.. both hands came down to something around his chest... as he turned (mind u i couldnt see to well because its pitch black and the only light is coming from outside)... it looked to be a gun... i fired 2 rounds.. both hitting him and killing him.. when i turned the light on.. it was a TOY GUN. I called police... gave them my story.. no charges filled etc.. was self defense.

IT HAUNTS ME EVERY DAY!... No its NOT a good feeling regaurdless of the reason behind it.. BUT... as previously said... i will gaurd my life if i have to and with my family there... it was him or us. Would i do it again??? YES.... would i make sure its an ACTUAL gun... YES... but thats not something u think about at the time... i say many times.. ppl SHOULD be shot for it... kill them? NO... im old school... eye for an eye... steal from me.. i take your hands... to me that would be fair... just my .02!

Well said. My only problem with your post is I just spent 5 minutes staring at your Avatar. DAMM SHE IS HOT!

TRobertsRN
01-20-2010, 09:09 PM
well put tom!!

Thanks, some times with just the right amount of Scotch things you shouldn't or don't usually discuss come out. Again with just the right amount of Scotch you might even say them well.

TRobertsRN
01-20-2010, 09:13 PM
If you carry a gun, always carry a $30.00 Lithium battey powered flashlight, they are 4 inches long and light weight, get one at Bass Pro or anywhere, they are small and very powerful, very bright. You need to be able to see your target and what's behind it, and make sure it is not someone you know that maybe locked thier keys inside, or any other senario, This light is so bright they will be blinded, and you can see what they are doing, is there anyone else with them, and what are they doing, either surrendering or going for a weapon, always have a weapon and light,
Steve

Very good advise.

Also your house gun should not be the 1911 .45 I learned to shoot with. This will go through your target, your wall, your neighbors cat, and your neighbors wifes boyfriend. For the house I like the Browing S&W .40. It stays in your target.

whatmeworry
01-22-2010, 08:17 PM
My son-in-law is a former Glendale police officer. He retired on a medical disability after having to kill a man who had just shot at him point blank. The shot missed but he had powder burns on his face and in his eye. It was a "good shooting" as they say but affected him to the point that he could no longer do his job. I recently gave away all of my firearms to various family members. I have no problem with guns in the hands of law abiding citizens but I no longer care to have them in my house. I sincerely hope I never have a reason to regret that decision.

jeepdude775
02-02-2010, 09:12 AM
Move to Texas :) They have more "liberal" use of force laws. Also, I would say, having certain familiarity with the revised statutes and use of lethal force, from a practical and legal stance "beating the **** out of" and "cutting hands off of" etc. versus "stopping the threat", which may involve killing, but is not the primary objective (right?), can lead to some serious legal and physical problems. In AZ you cannot use lethal force to defend property. In Tejas you can. The dude who used lethal force in this thread was justified. Tough deal but correct call in every sense. You cannot wait for them to pull their weapon. Basically I think people are pissed and spout off, but when the **** hits the fan you better have your head screwed on right. Now if I could only afford an M-60 for home defense.........................

dragon_bear
02-02-2010, 11:30 AM
I have 3 forms of home defence, 1 My dog hates it when anyone comes near the home. 2 I have my hands just in case someone does come in and I grab ahold of them they will leave on a streacher. 3 is my 38 Spc. I will only use it if I have to or feel my life is in danger or see that they have a wepon and they plan on useing it. Unlike you Doc. I have never had to use my M16 in combat but I have been there quit a few times. i have seen things that has given me the sleepless nights. My hat is off to you for the things you have done ecouse if it wa not for your fellow crew chiefs I would not be here. Thank YOU!!! I have only 4 years left tell I retire and yes I know I will be back in the sand box. My advise to everyone here is stand your ground on your thoughts and beliefs. Protect what is yours but remember family can not be replaced, EVERYTHING CAN!!!!

SHNIPE
02-02-2010, 11:38 AM
I have 3 forms of home defence, 1 My dog hates it when anyone comes near the home. 2 I have my hands just in case someone does come in and I grab ahold of them they will leave on a streacher. 3 is my 38 Spc. I will only use it if I have to or feel my life is in danger or see that they have a wepon and they plan on useing it. Unlike you Doc. I have never had to use my M16 in combat but I have been there quit a few times. i have seen things that has given me the sleepless nights. My hat is off to you for the things you have done ecouse if it wa not for your fellow crew chiefs I would not be here. Thank YOU!!! I have only 4 years left tell I retire and yes I know I will be back in the sand box. My advise to everyone here is stand your ground on your thoughts and beliefs. Protect what is yours but remember family can not be replaced, EVERYTHING CAN!!!!

Just a comment about your #3: If theyre IN YOUR HOUSE, theyve already contemplated the fact that you MIGHT be home and just running out the door isnt always the first thing that comes to a thief's mind when theyre in YOUR house. If theyre INSIDE, your life IS in danger!

dragon_bear
02-02-2010, 01:47 PM
Very true.

2crusty
02-02-2010, 06:19 PM
I wouldn't kill them for stealing but he'd be walkn with a limp from now on. It's like when the cop asked me why I shot him 4 times well DUH the gun jamed