6818-6842

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6818 From: Jon Loveless <jal@c...>
Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 6:20am
Subject: Re: Tax Relief Run, YOUR Invitation


Are there options to the 4's and 5's?

At 06:03 AM 3/20/00 -0700, O'Boyle, David wrote:
>1-5 there are obsticles for everyone easy to hard.....
>
>Dave (AZXJ)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Roger Tomas [mailto:tomasr@a...]
>Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 6:05 AM
>To: az_vjc@egroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Tax Relief Run, YOUR Invitation
>
>
>
>I may be in. (Would be my first run with azvjc!) And I may bring
>some buddies. Can anyone tell about what this run would be rated
>so I can inform my buddies? Thanks.
>
>-Roger
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>lowest prices on all the latest Palms and accessories when you
>buy through Accompany, the Web's leading destination for great
>deals on group buys.
>http://click.egroups.com/1/2512/6/_/1966/_/953557525/
>
>eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/az_vjc/
>http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>lowest prices on digital cameras at Accompany, the leader in group
>buying. Visit us today and make savings happen!
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>
>-- Check out your group's private Chat room
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>

=================
Jon Loveless
Convenient P&C Group
(610) 521-6066
=================



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6819 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 6:38am
Subject: Re: Tax Relief Run, YOUR Invitation


"O'Boyle, David" wrote:
>
> 1-5 there are obsticles for everyone easy to hard.....
>
> Dave (AZXJ)

About how long (ballpark) would this run take?

-Roger


6820 From: Chris R. <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 7:01am
Subject: Re: Tax Relief Run, YOUR Invitation


In speaking with the gentlemen that will be heading the tour, I was informed
that the trail we will be taking ranges from 1.5 to 4.0, most of which falls
at 2.0 or lower. They have however informed me that there are some 3.0 and
4.0 obstacles all of which do have a go around.


Chris
My1stJeep@e...
'97 TJ
----------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:20:21 -0500, Jon Loveless wrote:

>
> << File Attachment Removed: "text/html; charset="us-ascii";
> format=flowed" >>







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6821 From: Chris R. <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 7:09am
Subject: Re: Trailers


I recently was searching the net for trailers to tow behind my TJ. Found
some excellent ones at www.aliner.com, the weight is around a thousand
pounds and a little over. Great for towing behind Jeeps.

www.aliner.com

Chris
My1stJeep@e...
'97 TJ
----------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 20:26:01 -0800, Tom Quinn wrote:

>
> << File Attachment Removed: "text/html" >>







__________________________________________________ _____
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6822 From: Jay Eller <four_by_nut@n...>
Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 7:25am
Subject: Contacting Greg or Todd


Greg or Todd who ran Terminator with me about a month ago, please reply to me from
this email. I have a question for either of you and I don't have your direct
email address.

Everyone else.........sorry. Just ignore me. ;-)
--
-Jay-Bird (http://www.goodnet.com/~eller)
----------------------------------------------------------
83 CJ7
Part Chevy / Part Jeep >>>>> CHEEP!!
(Not to be confused with how it looks...)


6823 From: Scott Kruize <osmtj@y...>
Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 8:15am
Subject: Re: Tax Relief Run, YOUR Invitation


Count me in. I went out there last year with Len, Bill M, George, Ross and some others and had a great time. It'll give me a chance to see how the soon to be installed 4.88's & lockers work with the new 35" MT/R's :)

Scott Kruize - OSM TJ





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6824 From: Richard Wall <Wall_R@e...>
Date: Sat Mar 18, 2000 10:18pm
Subject: No Subject


Me and a couple of buddies are making a run to lower woodpecker and lower ajax on sunday the 26 if any wants to go.

traviswall@yahoo.com


6825 From: Joe West <Joe.West@F...>
Date: Sun Mar 19, 2000 10:52am
Subject: Replace the Wife... not the Lift <grin> (was: TJ skyjacker lift)


Josh,

I don't have any experience with the skyjacker lift, but I would certainly
recommend that you find someone in the group who has one, and test drive it
first. Then test drive the Teraflex and the RE... then decide.
$500 is not a good price for something that you are going to hate.... and
believe me; there can be a huge difference between the on/off road
characteristics of various lift kits. If you want to test drive the RE
kit... I'll let you drive my TJ.

Also... I certainly count my blessings that my girlfriend (soon to become my
Fiance' I hope) likes hitting the offroad trails as much as I do.
Unfortunately though, she isn't interested in owning a Jeep... <sigh>. I'd
love to be two Jeep family.

Regards,

Joe

Joe F. West
http://members.home.com/joewest2/



-----Original Message-----
From: joshragan@c... [mailto:joshragan@c...]
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 11:27 AM
To: az_vjc@eGroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Tj Skyjacker lift


Has anyone heard good or bad about the Skyjacker lift for the TJ. I
know the group loves the Teraflex and the R.E., but this price is
great. I know a guy in PA that that has a 4" single flex kit he want
to sell for $500.00 The kit has less then 4000 miles on it. Here is a
link to skyjackers site http://www.skyjacker.com/catalog/KitsJeep.htm
Let me know what you guys think. He says the only reason he wants to
get rid of it is the jeep is to high for his wife who drives it daily.
Sounded like the wife was the only problem to me.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
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6826 From: Joe F. West <joewest2@h...>
Date: Sun Mar 19, 2000 1:00pm
Subject: Installation Report; 7" Warn Fender Flares for Wrangler TJ


Hello Everyone,

I just completed the installation of a set of Warn 7" Fender Flares for my
TJ. The following is a brief report of the installation procedures, and
some of the difficulties I had.

First, when you open the box that the flares come in (it's about the size of
a small refrigerator) your first impression will be "Boy are these things
flimsy... look like they belong on a plastic model of a Jeep, not on the
real thing". After opening the box, I wondered if I made the right decision
to purchase these things... maybe I should live with 4" of SSR sticking out
the side of my Jeep.
I decided to go ahead and install them... hoping that my initial impressions
were wrong...

First thing I did was glance over the instructions... nothing out of the
ordinary here... after making sure I understood the basic procedure.. I put
the instructions aside and went to work.

First thing I did was remove the rear fenders off of my Jeep... pretty
simple task except for one thing; most of the bolts that hold the fenders on
have plastic nuts on the back which turn unless you hold them... and to hold
them you need to remove the fender liner. Too much work for me... I found
that if you pull the flare out hard away from the fender while you are
loosening the bolts, the plastic nuts will not turn and you can remove the
bolt... the plastic nut will then fall inside the fender liner and who cares
where they go after that <grin>. I removed all the bolts (something like 7
per side) from the rear fender flares, and removed the flares.

The instructions said to drill out the mounting dimples located on the new
Warn flares but here's where I'd deviate from their instructions: DON'T DO
IT YET!!!
First; test fit the flares on the fender and with a helper holding it in
place; look to see where the new flare lines up on the lip of the fender
that you are about to drill... I found that because I had some
off-your-rocker corner panel protectors and rocker panel protectors that the
Warn factory mounting holes would not line up, and I ended up drilling new
holes about 1/4" inboard of the Warn mounting dimples. With your partner
holding the flare on... take your 1/8" drill and drill through the flare and
the fender at the same time. Install the self-tapping mounting screw, and
then move to the next hole... drill it, put the screw in and move to the
next hole... you get the picture.
After drilling and mounting both rear flares, I needed to RTV around the
flare where they ran up and over the rocker and corner panel protectors to
keep debris from going between the flare and the panel protector. Put
masking tape on the flare and on the body to keep the RTV from getting in
places you don't want it...run a bead of RTV and then smooth it with your
finger and then QUICKLY remove the tape before the RTV starts to set. This
method leaves a professional looking seal.

After the rear flares were installed I pushed and pulled and prodded them to
check their strength and it is clear that they are a great deal stronger
than the factory flares. Warn's design uses the mounting of the flare to
increase the strength of the flare and once installed; they don't flex at
all. I don't know what this will ultimately mean on the trail as far as
damage cause to the flare because it doesn't flex... but I guess we'll see.

After installing the rear flares, I moved to the front flares.
The front flares are held on in the same manner as the rear flares... just
with more bolts AND the plastic nuts can be held with your hands to keep
them from turning since there is no fender liner.
After removing the front flares and cleaning all the dirt that was between
the flare and the fender, I repeated the same procedure as the rear
flares... i.e, DON'T drill out the mounting holes on the flare until you
test fit the flare first.
The front flares are held on not only by mounting screws in three places,
but also use a 3M adhesive strip which holds the top of the flare to the top
of the fender. You need to clean the wax off of the fender (if you have any
on it) before you begin the install.
After you install the 3M adhesive strips on the flare (leaving the
protective tape over the sticky part which will ultimately be stuck to the
top of the fender), leave a 1" piece of protective tape sticking out from
the end of the 3M tape so that you can remove the protective tape AFTER you
have the flare installed. This is important; DON'T REMOVE THE PROTECTIVE
TAPE FROM THE 3M ADHESIVE STRIP UNTIL AFTER YOU HAVE THE FLARE COMPLETELY
INSTALLED AND YOU ARE READY FOR IT TO NEVER MOVE AGAIN... THIS STUFF IS
STICKY!!!.

Install the front flare with the three screws, drilling and mounting in the
same manner as you did the rear flares. Once installed with all the
screws... grap the exposed protective tape while lifting on the flare and
pull it from the surface of the adhesive... the flare will adhere instantly
to the top of the fender as you remove the protective tape. Be careful not
to pull the protective tape too fast or you can rip it from the adhesive and
it will be extremely hard to get at it because the adhesive is under the
flare between the flare and the fender... there is little room to go fishing
around to start the tape so you can remove it.
After removing the tape and pushing down on the flare to adhere it to the
fender... the installation is complete. I had to run a bead of RTV on the
front fenders because of my rocker panel protection... using the same
masking tape procedure as the rear.

Once installed, the flares cover about 3 more inches of tire on both sides
of the vehicle... I'm no longer throwing mud and crap 30 feet into the air.
<grin>
One benefit of the Warn flares is that they are completely smooth on the
inside, meaning that mud and crap will not adhere inside the fender because
there is no place for it to catch (unlike the factory flares). I'm not sure
how well these flares will hold up to the Arizona Sun, but they are molded
in a semigloss black that can be painted (I chose not to paint them because
I'll just scratch the heck out of them anyway).

If you'd care to check out the results of the install, you can see a couple
of pictures on my web page:

http://members.home.com/joewest2

The first page has a current picture, and there is a sideview picture on the
modifications page.


Regards,

Joe West

Joe F. West
http://members.home.com/joewest2/


6827 From: Joe West <Joe.West@F...>
Date: Sun Mar 19, 2000 2:19pm
Subject: Warn Fender Flares


Hi Everyone,

I just added a few detailed shots of the Warn Fender Flare installation to
my web page under the modifications/fender flares heading.

http://members.home.net/joewest2/Modifications/Fender_Flares.htm

Regards,

Joe

Joe F. West
http://members.home.com/joewest2/


6828 From: Joe F. West <joewest2@h...>
Date: Sun Mar 19, 2000 2:22pm
Subject: No Subject


Hi Everyone,

I just added a few detailed shots of the Warn Fender Flare installation to
my web page under the modifications/fender flares heading.

http://members.home.net/joewest2/Modifications/Fender_Flares.htm

Regards,

Joe

Joe F. West
http://members.home.com/joewest2/
Joe F. West
http://members.home.com/joewest2/


6829 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 11:14am
Subject: Front axle nut


Anyone know what size the front axle nut is on the TJ Dana 30? I'm speaking
of the main nut on the outer axle shaft yoke.

TIA

Doug


6830 From: linda luik <p14175@e...>
Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 0:45pm
Subject: Re: Trailers


Antler RV in Phoenix sells these. I think there is also a dealership on
Grand Ave. Little Dealer (Mesa) occassionally has one on the back lot.
There is a similar brand called Chateau.

There is also the Fold-N-Roll. Which is an interesting hardwall pop-up
trailer similar to a Hi-Low, but it has an aircraft-style 'nose' wheel
right behind the tougue to reduce the amount of weight on the receiver.
The 'Fold-N-Roll" is a really unique trailer. It isn't made for
off-highway travel.


"chris r." <my1stjee-@e...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/az_vjc/?start=6821
> I recently was searching the net for trailers to tow behind my TJ.
Found
> some excellent ones at www.aliner.com, the weight is around a thousand
> pounds and a little over. Great for towing behind Jeeps.
>
> www.aliner.com
>
> Chris
> My1stJeep@e...
> '97 TJ


6831 From: Michael Chatfield <mike.chatfield@r...>
Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 0:49pm
Subject: Crown King Mar 18, 2000


I just finished a Trip Report for Saturdays run to Crown King on my
Website, pictures are still yet to come.

http://members.xoom.com/machat/trips/index.htm


6832 From: Linda Luik <p14175@e...>
Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 1:08pm
Subject: [Fwd: Stop Wilderness--Call Udall & Others]


Oops! Sorry.
Linda


Clark Collins wrote:
>
> -------------Forwarded Message-----------------
>
> From: Caren, INTERNET:nmcga@rt66.com
> To:
> Date: 3/20/00 10:48 AM
>
> RE: Stop Wilderness--Call Udall & Others
>
>
> Make a toll free call to Tom Udall and other committee members TODAY and
> ask them to support HR 3605. The bill is scheduled to come up before the
> Nat'l Parks subcommittee this week and would allow lands to be utilized for
> county recreation as opposed to Wilderness. As you can read below, the
> radical/irrational environmentalists are on an all out push. Their call to
> action and background material follows.
>
> Toll free number to the Capitol switch board is 888-449-3511. Just ask for
> the office you wish to speak to.
>
> Remember that HR 701, the Conservation & Reinvestment Act (CARA) is
> SUPPOSED to be helping counties and municipalities with recreation areas.
> How can supporters of that bill oppose this one?
>
> NMCGA 3/20/00 505/247-0584 a.m.
>
> Info from the greens: They are pushing for more calls on creating more
> wilderness.
> THIS NEEDS TO BE COUNTERED OR RANCHERS AND OTHER RESOURCE USERS WILL LOSE
> MORE LAND!!!
>
> >Delivered-To: nmwilderness@lists.nm.org
> >From: MTHeinrich@aol.com
> >Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:43:23 EST
> >Subject: Call Tom Udall for Utah Wilderness
> >To: nmwilderness@lists.nm.org, sierranews@lists.nm.org
> >Sender: owner-nmwilderness@lists.nm.org
> >Reply-To: MTHeinrich@aol.com
> >
> >Please read the following alert and give Tom a call. He is likely to vote
> >with us, but hearing from his constituents on this will let him know we
> care
> >about wilderness and will make him realize that the wilderness forces in
> his
> >own state are organized. This will only benefit NM's wilderness movement
> in
> >the long run. - Thanks
> >
>
> >From: AlertList@suwa.org
> >To: AlertList@suwa.org
> >Subject: Not-So-Swell Bill in mark-up this week-Calls Needed!
> >X-Loop: uw
> >Precedence: bulk
> >Message-Id: <E12X3aj-0002s7-00@mail.xmission.com>
> >Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:55:37 -0700
> >
> >Folks -
> >
> >H.R. 3605 (The San Rafael Not-So-Swell Bill) continues to move through
> >the House of Representatives, so we remain on RED ALERT status. If
> >you've already called or written in response to one of our previous
> >alerts, THANKS! -- but please call again before Thursday if your
> >Representative is listed in item (1) below. If you haven't yet called,
> >now is a great time to become more active.
> >
> > * If your Representative is one of the subcommittee members listed
> > in item (1) below, please make that call, and then double your
> > effectiveness by getting friend to call also.
> >
> > * If your Representative is not listed in item (1), see item (3).
> > (You'll also get a chance to call your representative later, as the
> > bill moves to the full committee and then the House floor.)
> >
> >
> >(1) What To Do
> >(2) Background on H.R. 3605
> >(3) Letters Needed on Wide Hollow Reservoir
> >
> >
> >(1) What To Do
> >
> >The Representatives we need to contact are the members of the House
> >National Parks and Public Lands Subcommittee:
> >
> > Republicans
> >
> > 1. Mr. James Hansen, UT-01, Chair
> > 2. Mr. Elton Gallegly, CA-23
> > 3. Mr. John Duncan, TN-02
> > 4. Mr. Joel Hefley, CO-05
> > 5. Mr. Richard Pombo, CA-11
> > 6. Mrs. Barbara Cubin, WY-At Large
> > 7. Mr. George Radanovich, CA-19
> > 8. Mr. Walter Jones, NC-03
> > 9. Mr. Chris Cannon, UT-03
> > 10. Mr. Rick Hill, MT-At Large
> > 11. Mr. Jim Gibbons, NV-02
> > 12. Mr. Mark Souder, IN-04
> > 13. Mr. Don Sherwood, PA-10
> >
> >
> > Democrats
> >
> > 1. Mr. Carlos Romero-Barcelo, Puerto Rico, RM
> > 2. Mr. Nick Joe Rahall, WV-03
> > 3. Mr. Bruce Vento, MN-04
> > 4. Mr. Dale Kildee, MI-09
> > 5. Mrs. Donna Christian-Christensen, Virgin Islands
> > 6. Mr. Ron Kind, WI-03
> > 7. Mr. Jay Inslee, WA-01
> > 8. Mr. Tom Udall, NM-03
> > 9. Mr. Mark Udall, CO-02
> > 10. Mr. Joseph Crowley, NY-07
> > 11. Mr. Rush Holt, NJ-12
> >
> >(If you're not sure who your Representative is, you can type in your ZIP
> >code at http://www.congress.org/ and find out. But please DON'T rely on
> >the "send message" option at that site. E-mail messages to Congress
> >carry almost no weight-letters and phone calls are the effective way
> >to reach them.)
> >
> >If you think your member of Congress doesn't listen to you on
> >environmental issues, call them anyway. We want even the bad guys to
> >know just how hard we're going to fight this thing. We also want them
> >to know just how much support there is for designating wilderness.
> >
> >REMEMBER: The only hope we have of stopping this bill is if members of
> >Congress hear opposition from large numbers of their constituents-
> >this means you!
> >
> >Since the Subcommittee mark-up session is this Thursday (March 23,
> >2000), we need everyone to phone their representative-letters won't
> >get there in time, and e-mail is not an effective way to influence
> >Congress.
> >
> >To phone your Representative:
> >
> > (i) Call the Capitol switchboard at (202) 224-3121.
> >
> > (ii) Ask for Representative YYYY's office.
> >
> > (iii) When you reach the receptionist at the office, ask to speak
> > with the aide who deals with environmental issues. (If that aide is
> > not available, you can leave a detailed message with the
> > receptionist.)
> >
> > (iv) Tell the aide that you are a constituent (mention the town
> > you're from), and ask them to oppose H.R. 3605/S. 2048, because (1)
> > it fails to designate any wilderness at all, (2) it leaves the wild
> > San Rafael Swell region open to continued destruction by off-road
> > vehicles, and (3) it lops off and leaves out important wilderness
> > units in the San Rafael Swell. Urge the Representative to attend the
> > mark-up session on Thursday.
> >
> >If you learn anything interesting during your call (whether they have
> >received other calls on the issue, whether they seem interested, etc.),
> >let us know at AlertList@suwa.org .
> >
> >
> >(2) Background
> >
> >On Thursday of this week, the House National Park and Public Lands
> >Subcommittee, chaired by our very own Rep. James Hansen (R-UT), will
> >amend and report a piece of legislation in a process called "mark-up."
> >That bill is H.R. 3605, "To Establish the San Rafael Western Legacy
> >District," and H.R. 3605 is as anti-wilderness as it gets.
> >
> >H.R. 3605 takes your public lands, lands in the San Rafael Swell
> >administered on our behalf by the Bureau of Land Management, and makes
> >them a county recreation area almost exclusively for the benefit of
> >noisy, destructive off-road vehicle use. Off-road vehicles are the
> >Number 1 threat to the integrity of the San Rafael Swell's key geologic
> >and biologic values.
> >
> >Not only does H.R. 3605 make a mockery of land protection, but it gives
> >to Emery County up to $10 million of your tax dollars to promote the
> >very kind of destructive activities that ought to be prevented by
> >Congress.
> >
> >Emery County wholeheartedly supports this legislation. And why not?
> >H.R. 3605 establishes a local advisory board, ironically called a
> >"Legacy Council," that the Secretary of Interior is required to consult
> >in preparing a plan for how the land is to be managed. In other words,
> >the bill essentially transfers control of our public land - land that
> >you and I own - to local folks who have been the most vitriolic in their
> >opposition to protecting wilderness.
> >
> >What's good about this bill?
> >
> >Absolutely nothing. This bill is nothing but a brazen attempt to
> >circumvent wilderness designation. If the Utah delegation is successful
> >in passing this legislation, public land all over the West is at risk
> >because any anti-wilderness member of Congress can team up with
> >commissioners in any of the Nye or Catron County and establish something
> >that sounds good but really stinks.
> >
> >Strangely, the Secretary of Interior is behind this legislation. But
> >remember, Secretary Babbitt has talked a lot lately about setting up
> >national monuments, just as President Clinton did for places in
> >California and Arizona recently. Secretary Babbitt is in a mad rush,
> >over the next eight months, to make the Bureau of Land Management
> >"greener."
> >
> >H.R. 3605 doesn't do it, but Secretary Babbitt thinks it sure looks good
> >that some of the most virulent anti-environmental members of Congress -
> >Rep. Hansen's LCV score is a pitiful 13%, twice that of Rep. Cannon's 6%
> >voting record on environmental issues - are supporting a measure that
> >fits into Secretary Babbitt's game plan.
> >
> >For more on the details about what's in this horrendous piece of
> >legislation, see http://www.suwa.org/HR3605testimony.html-the
> >testimony of Mike Matz, executive director of the Southern Utah
> >Wilderness Alliance His testimony was presented to the National Parks
> >and Public Lands Subcommittee on March 2nd.
> >
> >
> >(3) Letters Needed on Wide Hollow Reservoir
> >
> >BLM recently re-issued the EA for the proposed Wide Hollow dam and
> >reservoir. Unfortunately, the "new and improved" EA is not much
> >different than the initial half-baked EA BLM released last year for the
> >same proposed project. Last time around, your letters helped convince
> >BLM that the proposal and the agency's EA were stinkers.
> >
> >The current proposal is the same as last time. The water conservancy
> >district want to use public lands to construct a 900-foot long dam
> >about 4.5 miles northwest of Escalante, Utah. The dam would impound 6100
> >acre feet of water to irrigate 2700 acres of alfalfa. The water to fill
> >up this giant reservoir would be taken, year round, from nearby North
> >Creek and Birch Creek. To divert the water from Birch and North Creeks,
> >the water conservancy district proposes to construct "diversion
> >structures" (mini-dams) approximately 100 foot wide on each stream
> >causing small reservoirs to form behind them to be siphoned to the big
> >reservoir.
> >
> >There's numerous problems with this proposal, including:
> >
> >* The proposed reservoir would flood a portion of the Wide Hollow unit
> >of America's Redrock Wilderness Act. An access road would also cut
> >through this same unit.
> >
> >* The mini-dams on North and Birch Creeks would cause the flooding of
> >many acres of healthy, lush riparian vegetation (including sedges,
> >reeds, grasses and trees). The EA conspicuously fails to disclose how
> >many acres of riparian vegetation would be submerged.
> >
> >* Over two miles of Birch and North Creek and their streamside
> >vegetation would be dewatered downstream from the mini-dams.
> >
> >* These creeks and riparian areas are part of the Wide Hollow, Little
> >Valley and Heaps Canyon units of HR 1732.
> >
> >* The proposed reservoir's capacity is nearly three times the unofficial
> >"determined demand" for irrigation water, by our calculations. Again,
> >BLM omitted this piece of information from the EA.
> >
> >* The EA fails to provide the current flow rate of Birch and North
> >Creeks, so BLM's proposition that "enough" water would be allowed to
> >flow below the diversion to "maintain" the riparian area is meaningless.
> > If the agency doesn't even know how much water flows in these little
> >creeks, how does it know what "enough" water for maintenance should be?
> >
> >Please write letters to BLM to let them know this proposal is
> >significantly controversial and request that the agency either pick the
> >"no action" alternative or prepare a full-blown Environmental Impact
> >Statement to adequately assess the impacts of this proposal on the
> >affected resources. Incorporate some of the above points in your
> >letter. Address: GSENM, Attention Marieatta Eaton, 180 W. 300 N.,
> >Kanab, UT 84741. THANKS!
> >


Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:37:07 MST
From: Clark Collins 73563.1551@c...
Subject: Stop Wilderness--Call Udall & Others
To: Adam Mehlberg 3jeeps@c... , Brad Delong bdelong@c... , "Mike and Kirsten Green" billyji@f... , John Brabyn brabyn@s... , Carla Boucher ccboucher@h... , "George Jessup" coachgeo@s... , Derek Cooper coop223@e... , "Christopher P. Millunzi" cpmillunzi@o... , Jeffrey Miller cvc@h... , Greg Lenderink cybrrngr@f... , DONNA CHISUM DCHISUM@w... , Dee Murphy ddunning@h... , Steve Anderson desertrls@a... , Don Gordon DGordon315@a... , Dick Young dickyoung@j... , Rob Gold doodad@e... , "Eric Cheek" ebc@c... , Mike Wickham emwick@m... , Dave Jarvis gajarvis@i... , Del Albright jeepndel@g... , Jim McGarvie jgarv@h... , Don Klusman klusman@s... , Will Leaman leltd@r... , Mark Werkmiester Mark_R_Werkmeister@c... , "Adam Mehlberg" mehlberg@h... , Mark Radtke mh-radtke@w... , Michael Smith mikeysjsu@n... , Marsha Terry MTERRY@e... , Michelle Woll mwoll@s... , David Borum N24Wheel@u... , Nate Littrell nate.littrell@b... , Mountaineers newsletter@m... , Danny Borum ORVRME@a... , Dave Osborne ozycj@r... , "Linda Luik (p14175)" p14175@e... , Pat Chicas pjc@o... , Preston Stevens pstevens@m... , Rick Neil RANeil@a... , Ruben Rangel rangel@s... , Rich Newman Rnewman2@a... , Gary Keller rockart@u... , "Jim Robinson" solo7@m... , Ron Stockman stockman@p... , Lori McNeely tlinc@x... , Tom Chapman tmchapman@w... , Terry Rust trust@l... , Michael Cohn txjeeper@r... , Homer Van Zandt vanzandt@z... , Rickey Walker walker-r-p@w... , rockcrawler webmaster@r...
-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

From: Caren, INTERNET:nmcga@rt66.com
To:
Date: 3/20/00 10:48 AM

RE: Stop Wilderness--Call Udall & Others


Make a toll free call to Tom Udall and other committee members TODAY and
ask them to support HR 3605. The bill is scheduled to come up before the
Nat'l Parks subcommittee this week and would allow lands to be utilized for
county recreation as opposed to Wilderness. As you can read below, the
radical/irrational environmentalists are on an all out push. Their call to
action and background material follows.

Toll free number to the Capitol switch board is 888-449-3511. Just ask for
the office you wish to speak to.

Remember that HR 701, the Conservation & Reinvestment Act (CARA) is
SUPPOSED to be helping counties and municipalities with recreation areas.
How can supporters of that bill oppose this one?

NMCGA 3/20/00 505/247-0584 a.m.



Info from the greens: They are pushing for more calls on creating more
wilderness.
THIS NEEDS TO BE COUNTERED OR RANCHERS AND OTHER RESOURCE USERS WILL LOSE
MORE LAND!!!

>Delivered-To: nmwilderness@lists.nm.org
>From: MTHeinrich@aol.com
>Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:43:23 EST
>Subject: Call Tom Udall for Utah Wilderness
>To: nmwilderness@lists.nm.org, sierranews@lists.nm.org
>Sender: owner-nmwilderness@lists.nm.org
>Reply-To: MTHeinrich@aol.com
>
>Please read the following alert and give Tom a call. He is likely to vote
>with us, but hearing from his constituents on this will let him know we
care
>about wilderness and will make him realize that the wilderness forces in
his
>own state are organized. This will only benefit NM's wilderness movement
in
>the long run. - Thanks
>

>From: AlertList@suwa.org
>To: AlertList@suwa.org
>Subject: Not-So-Swell Bill in mark-up this week-Calls Needed!
>X-Loop: uw
>Precedence: bulk
>Message-Id: <E12X3aj-0002s7-00@mail.xmission.com>
>Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:55:37 -0700
>
>Folks -
>
>H.R. 3605 (The San Rafael Not-So-Swell Bill) continues to move through
>the House of Representatives, so we remain on RED ALERT status. If
>you've already called or written in response to one of our previous
>alerts, THANKS! -- but please call again before Thursday if your
>Representative is listed in item (1) below. If you haven't yet called,
>now is a great time to become more active.
>
> * If your Representative is one of the subcommittee members listed
> in item (1) below, please make that call, and then double your
> effectiveness by getting friend to call also.
>
> * If your Representative is not listed in item (1), see item (3).
> (You'll also get a chance to call your representative later, as the
> bill moves to the full committee and then the House floor.)
>
>
>(1) What To Do
>(2) Background on H.R. 3605
>(3) Letters Needed on Wide Hollow Reservoir
>
>
>(1) What To Do
>
>The Representatives we need to contact are the members of the House
>National Parks and Public Lands Subcommittee:
>
> Republicans
>
> 1. Mr. James Hansen, UT-01, Chair
> 2. Mr. Elton Gallegly, CA-23
> 3. Mr. John Duncan, TN-02
> 4. Mr. Joel Hefley, CO-05
> 5. Mr. Richard Pombo, CA-11
> 6. Mrs. Barbara Cubin, WY-At Large
> 7. Mr. George Radanovich, CA-19
> 8. Mr. Walter Jones, NC-03
> 9. Mr. Chris Cannon, UT-03
> 10. Mr. Rick Hill, MT-At Large
> 11. Mr. Jim Gibbons, NV-02
> 12. Mr. Mark Souder, IN-04
> 13. Mr. Don Sherwood, PA-10
>
>
> Democrats
>
> 1. Mr. Carlos Romero-Barcelo, Puerto Rico, RM
> 2. Mr. Nick Joe Rahall, WV-03
> 3. Mr. Bruce Vento, MN-04
> 4. Mr. Dale Kildee, MI-09
> 5. Mrs. Donna Christian-Christensen, Virgin Islands
> 6. Mr. Ron Kind, WI-03
> 7. Mr. Jay Inslee, WA-01
> 8. Mr. Tom Udall, NM-03
> 9. Mr. Mark Udall, CO-02
> 10. Mr. Joseph Crowley, NY-07
> 11. Mr. Rush Holt, NJ-12
>
>(If you're not sure who your Representative is, you can type in your ZIP
>code at http://www.congress.org/ and find out. But please DON'T rely on
>the "send message" option at that site. E-mail messages to Congress
>carry almost no weight-letters and phone calls are the effective way
>to reach them.)
>
>If you think your member of Congress doesn't listen to you on
>environmental issues, call them anyway. We want even the bad guys to
>know just how hard we're going to fight this thing. We also want them
>to know just how much support there is for designating wilderness.
>
>REMEMBER: The only hope we have of stopping this bill is if members of
>Congress hear opposition from large numbers of their constituents-
>this means you!
>
>Since the Subcommittee mark-up session is this Thursday (March 23,
>2000), we need everyone to phone their representative-letters won't
>get there in time, and e-mail is not an effective way to influence
>Congress.
>
>To phone your Representative:
>
> (i) Call the Capitol switchboard at (202) 224-3121.
>
> (ii) Ask for Representative YYYY's office.
>
> (iii) When you reach the receptionist at the office, ask to speak
> with the aide who deals with environmental issues. (If that aide is
> not available, you can leave a detailed message with the
> receptionist.)
>
> (iv) Tell the aide that you are a constituent (mention the town
> you're from), and ask them to oppose H.R. 3605/S. 2048, because (1)
> it fails to designate any wilderness at all, (2) it leaves the wild
> San Rafael Swell region open to continued destruction by off-road
> vehicles, and (3) it lops off and leaves out important wilderness
> units in the San Rafael Swell. Urge the Representative to attend the
> mark-up session on Thursday.
>
>If you learn anything interesting during your call (whether they have
>received other calls on the issue, whether they seem interested, etc.),
>let us know at AlertList@suwa.org .
>
>
>(2) Background
>
>On Thursday of this week, the House National Park and Public Lands
>Subcommittee, chaired by our very own Rep. James Hansen (R-UT), will
>amend and report a piece of legislation in a process called "mark-up."
>That bill is H.R. 3605, "To Establish the San Rafael Western Legacy
>District," and H.R. 3605 is as anti-wilderness as it gets.
>
>H.R. 3605 takes your public lands, lands in the San Rafael Swell
>administered on our behalf by the Bureau of Land Management, and makes
>them a county recreation area almost exclusively for the benefit of
>noisy, destructive off-road vehicle use. Off-road vehicles are the
>Number 1 threat to the integrity of the San Rafael Swell's key geologic
>and biologic values.
>
>Not only does H.R. 3605 make a mockery of land protection, but it gives
>to Emery County up to $10 million of your tax dollars to promote the
>very kind of destructive activities that ought to be prevented by
>Congress.
>
>Emery County wholeheartedly supports this legislation. And why not?
>H.R. 3605 establishes a local advisory board, ironically called a
>"Legacy Council," that the Secretary of Interior is required to consult
>in preparing a plan for how the land is to be managed. In other words,
>the bill essentially transfers control of our public land - land that
>you and I own - to local folks who have been the most vitriolic in their
>opposition to protecting wilderness.
>
>What's good about this bill?
>
>Absolutely nothing. This bill is nothing but a brazen attempt to
>circumvent wilderness designation. If the Utah delegation is successful
>in passing this legislation, public land all over the West is at risk
>because any anti-wilderness member of Congress can team up with
>commissioners in any of the Nye or Catron County and establish something
>that sounds good but really stinks.
>
>Strangely, the Secretary of Interior is behind this legislation. But
>remember, Secretary Babbitt has talked a lot lately about setting up
>national monuments, just as President Clinton did for places in
>California and Arizona recently. Secretary Babbitt is in a mad rush,
>over the next eight months, to make the Bureau of Land Management
>"greener."
>
>H.R. 3605 doesn't do it, but Secretary Babbitt thinks it sure looks good
>that some of the most virulent anti-environmental members of Congress -
>Rep. Hansen's LCV score is a pitiful 13%, twice that of Rep. Cannon's 6%
>voting record on environmental issues - are supporting a measure that
>fits into Secretary Babbitt's game plan.
>
>For more on the details about what's in this horrendous piece of
>legislation, see http://www.suwa.org/HR3605testimony.html-the
>testimony of Mike Matz, executive director of the Southern Utah
>Wilderness Alliance His testimony was presented to the National Parks
>and Public Lands Subcommittee on March 2nd.
>
>
>(3) Letters Needed on Wide Hollow Reservoir
>
>BLM recently re-issued the EA for the proposed Wide Hollow dam and
>reservoir. Unfortunately, the "new and improved" EA is not much
>different than the initial half-baked EA BLM released last year for the
>same proposed project. Last time around, your letters helped convince
>BLM that the proposal and the agency's EA were stinkers.
>
>The current proposal is the same as last time. The water conservancy
>district want to use public lands to construct a 900-foot long dam
>about 4.5 miles northwest of Escalante, Utah. The dam would impound 6100
>acre feet of water to irrigate 2700 acres of alfalfa. The water to fill
>up this giant reservoir would be taken, year round, from nearby North
>Creek and Birch Creek. To divert the water from Birch and North Creeks,
>the water conservancy district proposes to construct "diversion
>structures" (mini-dams) approximately 100 foot wide on each stream
>causing small reservoirs to form behind them to be siphoned to the big
>reservoir.
>
>There's numerous problems with this proposal, including:
>
>* The proposed reservoir would flood a portion of the Wide Hollow unit
>of America's Redrock Wilderness Act. An access road would also cut
>through this same unit.
>
>* The mini-dams on North and Birch Creeks would cause the flooding of
>many acres of healthy, lush riparian vegetation (including sedges,
>reeds, grasses and trees). The EA conspicuously fails to disclose how
>many acres of riparian vegetation would be submerged.
>
>* Over two miles of Birch and North Creek and their streamside
>vegetation would be dewatered downstream from the mini-dams.
>
>* These creeks and riparian areas are part of the Wide Hollow, Little
>Valley and Heaps Canyon units of HR 1732.
>
>* The proposed reservoir's capacity is nearly three times the unofficial
>"determined demand" for irrigation water, by our calculations. Again,
>BLM omitted this piece of information from the EA.
>
>* The EA fails to provide the current flow rate of Birch and North
>Creeks, so BLM's proposition that "enough" water would be allowed to
>flow below the diversion to "maintain" the riparian area is meaningless.
> If the agency doesn't even know how much water flows in these little
>creeks, how does it know what "enough" water for maintenance should be?
>
>Please write letters to BLM to let them know this proposal is
>significantly controversial and request that the agency either pick the
>"no action" alternative or prepare a full-blown Environmental Impact
>Statement to adequately assess the impacts of this proposal on the
>affected resources. Incorporate some of the above points in your
>letter. Address: GSENM, Attention Marieatta Eaton, 180 W. 300 N.,
>Kanab, UT 84741. THANKS!
>
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>Unsubscribe@suwa.org-send email here and the address from which
> you sent the email will be automatically unsubscribed
>SubscribeMe@suwa.org-send email here and the address from which
> you sent the email will be automatically subscribed
>ListAdmin@suwa.org-if the above two email addresses don't do the
> job, or if you need to change your address, send email here
>AlertList@suwa.org-send general comments or questions here
>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> [20/250]
>





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6833 From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 3:50pm
Subject: Re: Anyoone recognize this Jeep?


nice picture bill. I'll add it to my web page.
Linda


6834 From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 4:16pm
Subject: Re: Tax Relief Run, YOUR Invitation


You know you're a Jeeper when ..... an fun day on the trail means getting
home at midnight! And you don't care!

Don't worry ---- be happy!

Linda

Roger Tomas wrote:

> "O'Boyle, David" wrote:
> >
> > 1-5 there are obsticles for everyone easy to hard.....
> >
> > Dave (AZXJ)
>
> About how long (ballpark) would this run take?
>
> -Roger
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Now's your chance to snap digital photos like a pro! Get the Web's
> lowest prices on digital cameras at Accompany, the leader in group
> buying. Visit us today and make savings happen!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/2514/6/_/1966/_/953563191/
>
> -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
> -- http://www.egroups.com/docvault/az_vjc/?m=1


6835 From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 4:26pm
Subject: [Fwd: FOR SALE]


These 4x4s have been worked hard, but Ziggy and Steve have really put a lot
of effort into keeping them in tip-top shape. The trailer that Ziggy pulls
is pretty nice.

Linda

~Ziggy wrote:

> Steve and I want a Rock buggy now for wheelin and competing and have
> decided to sell my Jeep and his Toyota truck to finance it and do it
> right! We have been wanting to do this for over two years and have
> decided to quit talking about and just do it so if you know anyone in
> the market for a good 4x4....check them out, specs are below! Help us
> spread the word by ofrwarding this to your friends! Thanks!!!
>
> We worked the ARCA event in Phoenix two weeks ago and both of us want to
> compete in the future. We will keep you all posted and yes we know
> that we are utterly completely crazy but that's how we enjoy living
> life! We will be too busy to have other rigs and they will help to
> finance the rock buggy!
>
> Take Care!
> ~Ziggy & Toybox
>
> FOR SALE
>
> 1986 CJ-7 - 304, T-18, 8274 WARN WINCH, SCRAMBLER HALF-CAB, FULL-STEEL
> DOORS, BIKINI TOP, TONNEAU COVER, INSIDE ROLL CAGE WITH SAFETY HARNESS,
> OUTSIDE ROLL BAR WITH SPARE TIRE MOUNT, CENTERFORCE CLUTCH, DANA 44 REAR
> WITH DETROIT LOCKER AND 4 SPARE AXLES, DANA 30 FRONT WITH LOCKRIGHT
> LOCKER AND TWO SPARE AXLES, MASTERRACK STEEL SECURITY CENTER CONSOLE AND
> MASTERRACK STEEL TOOL BOX IN REAR, DURALINER COATING INSIDE CAB AND TUB,
> CUSTOM UPHOLSTERY AND DESERT CORAL METALLIC PAINT, ONBOARD YORK AIR WITH
> AIR TANK, DANA 300 TRANSFER CASE, OFF YOUR ROCKERS SKID PLATES AND
> ROCKER PANELS, CUSTOM RECEIVER BUMPERS FRONT AND REAR, U-BOLT SKID
> PLATES, 4:56 GEARS, ALCAN 4" DOUBLE WRAPPED SPRINGS, 35" BFG MUD
> TERRAINS, FLAT-FENDERED FRONT FENDERS, COBRA HAND-HELD CB MOUNTED IN
> CENTER CONSOLE, ALPINE STEREO AND OVERHEAD SPEAKERS. WITH A CUSTOM 4 X
> 8 JEEP TRAILER WITH 33" BFG MUD TERRAINS AND TONNEAU COVER, DIAMOND
> PLATING STEEL SIDED AND PAINTED TO MATCH JEEP IN DESERT CORAL METALLIC.
> ORIGINAL OWNER OF JEEP AND TRAILER. $12,000 FOR BOTH OR $$11,000 FOR
> JEEP AND $1,000 FOR TRAILER.
>
> 1990 TOYOTA PICKUP - CUSTOM DIAMOND PLATE STEEL FLATBED WITH RECESSED
> TOOLBOX, SPARE MOUNTED AND DURALINER COATING, SOLID AXLE CONVERSION,
> MARLIN DUAL-TRANSFER CASE, 4:88 GEARS, 22RE 4-CYLINDER, 5 SPEED,
> CENTERFORCE CLUTCH, RAMSEY WINCH WITH EITHER FRONT OR REAR MOUNT
> CAPABILITY, INSIDE ROLL-CAGE, DURALINER INDIE CAB, 35" BFG MUD TERRAINS,
> DETROIT LOCKERS FRONT & REAR, CUSTOM MISSING LINK REAR SUSPENSION WITH
> SHACKLES, CB, SPARE AXLES AND SPARE PARTS INCLUDING A COMPLETE THIRD
> MEMBER WITH DETROIT AND 4:88'S, ALCAN SPRINGS, CUSTOM RECEIVER FRONT
> BUMPER, CUSTOM RAIL DOORS FOR OFFROAD AND FULL HARD DOORS. ORIGINAL
> OWNER. $12,000 FOR TRUCK
>
> THESE ARE BUILT TRAIL RIGS, EMAIL JANINE "ZIGGY" OR STEVE INGLES AT:
> ziggy@cybertrails.com OR PHONE 602-743-1126 for further info.
> PHOENIX, AZ


Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 16:33:41 -0700
From: ~Ziggy ziggy@c...
To: rocrusr@h..., buckup@h..., rdbillsjr@a..., lizthemechanic@e..., tbfab@i..., sfriend@h..., jacobsba@u..., emelendy@u..., driven6677@a..., 4critter@f..., offroadite@a..., waddill@p..., ammorgan@p..., nixon@s..., r14141@e..., minihummer@w..., jeep@a..., jayk@n..., mstens1@y..., crafts@w..., nasvik@s..., gonzodave@y..., jlstring@o..., mterry@e..., ibe4x4in@e..., dpwills@w..., mccullen@w...
Subject: FOR SALE
Steve and I want a Rock buggy now for wheelin and competing and have
decided to sell my Jeep and his Toyota truck to finance it and do it
right! We have been wanting to do this for over two years and have
decided to quit talking about and just do it so if you know anyone in
the market for a good 4x4....check them out, specs are below! Help us
spread the word by ofrwarding this to your friends! Thanks!!!

We worked the ARCA event in Phoenix two weeks ago and both of us want to
compete in the future. We will keep you all posted and yes we know
that we are utterly completely crazy but that's how we enjoy living
life! We will be too busy to have other rigs and they will help to
finance the rock buggy!

Take Care!
~Ziggy & Toybox

FOR SALE

1986 CJ-7 - 304, T-18, 8274 WARN WINCH, SCRAMBLER HALF-CAB, FULL-STEEL
DOORS, BIKINI TOP, TONNEAU COVER, INSIDE ROLL CAGE WITH SAFETY HARNESS,
OUTSIDE ROLL BAR WITH SPARE TIRE MOUNT, CENTERFORCE CLUTCH, DANA 44 REAR
WITH DETROIT LOCKER AND 4 SPARE AXLES, DANA 30 FRONT WITH LOCKRIGHT
LOCKER AND TWO SPARE AXLES, MASTERRACK STEEL SECURITY CENTER CONSOLE AND
MASTERRACK STEEL TOOL BOX IN REAR, DURALINER COATING INSIDE CAB AND TUB,
CUSTOM UPHOLSTERY AND DESERT CORAL METALLIC PAINT, ONBOARD YORK AIR WITH
AIR TANK, DANA 300 TRANSFER CASE, OFF YOUR ROCKERS SKID PLATES AND
ROCKER PANELS, CUSTOM RECEIVER BUMPERS FRONT AND REAR, U-BOLT SKID
PLATES, 4:56 GEARS, ALCAN 4" DOUBLE WRAPPED SPRINGS, 35" BFG MUD
TERRAINS, FLAT-FENDERED FRONT FENDERS, COBRA HAND-HELD CB MOUNTED IN
CENTER CONSOLE, ALPINE STEREO AND OVERHEAD SPEAKERS. WITH A CUSTOM 4 X
8 JEEP TRAILER WITH 33" BFG MUD TERRAINS AND TONNEAU COVER, DIAMOND
PLATING STEEL SIDED AND PAINTED TO MATCH JEEP IN DESERT CORAL METALLIC.
ORIGINAL OWNER OF JEEP AND TRAILER. $12,000 FOR BOTH OR $$11,000 FOR
JEEP AND $1,000 FOR TRAILER.

1990 TOYOTA PICKUP - CUSTOM DIAMOND PLATE STEEL FLATBED WITH RECESSED
TOOLBOX, SPARE MOUNTED AND DURALINER COATING, SOLID AXLE CONVERSION,
MARLIN DUAL-TRANSFER CASE, 4:88 GEARS, 22RE 4-CYLINDER, 5 SPEED,
CENTERFORCE CLUTCH, RAMSEY WINCH WITH EITHER FRONT OR REAR MOUNT
CAPABILITY, INSIDE ROLL-CAGE, DURALINER INDIE CAB, 35" BFG MUD TERRAINS,
DETROIT LOCKERS FRONT & REAR, CUSTOM MISSING LINK REAR SUSPENSION WITH
SHACKLES, CB, SPARE AXLES AND SPARE PARTS INCLUDING A COMPLETE THIRD
MEMBER WITH DETROIT AND 4:88'S, ALCAN SPRINGS, CUSTOM RECEIVER FRONT
BUMPER, CUSTOM RAIL DOORS FOR OFFROAD AND FULL HARD DOORS. ORIGINAL
OWNER. $12,000 FOR TRUCK

THESE ARE BUILT TRAIL RIGS, EMAIL JANINE "ZIGGY" OR STEVE INGLES AT:
ziggy@cybertrails.com OR PHONE 602-743-1126 for further info.
PHOENIX, AZ


6836 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 4:48pm
Subject: Trail work


We're looking for a few good jeeps - to help in fixing up an existing trail.
Below is a brief description of it. We'd like to do an overnight work party,
next week-end (March 25-26). Preferably, we're looking for Jeeps that are
well lifted, locked and have a winch. The scenery in this area is absolutely
stunning, and the trail has some pretty awesome obstacles in the last
portions of the trail - (class 4+) - with one point that may require a
winch - won't know for sure until we try it.

If your interested, shoot out a note, and we'll put it together. A small
party of Jeeps (5 or so) would be perfect.

> > Awesome day - absolutely stunning scenery.
> > We were trying to find a
> > loop trail in to the "trail" - which we found, after going over a series
> of
> > maps and info. We're working on a name for the trail. It has a 15' high
> > water fall (dry) as the principle obstacle. We figured out
> > where the winch point will be - this will be needed at least as a
> > safety measure (to prevent someone from turning turtle).
> >
> > The loop trail in is probably about 3-4 miles of fairly easy class 2+,
> with
> > a couple of very light class 3 wash outs. It leads to the Canyon (soon
to
> be
> > named), where the 'rock garden', 'launch pad', 'slippery rock', and
'ball
> > bearing hill' are located.
> > This later part of the trail is probably a class 4+, with the 'launch
pad'
> a
> > possible 5
> > We're really not certain it can be done w/o a winch - we think it can,
> > but everyone should probably have a winch cable hooked to them as a
safety
> > measure (at least the first time up it), cause it goes near vertical at
> the
> > top. Awesome.
> >
> > The trail needs a bit of work to get it ready. It's a recognized trail
> (it's
> > on the maps) but was badly washed out years ago, and is now termed
> > "impassable".
> > And today, we found the loop in to it.
> >
> > We're gonna try to schedule a work party for next week end (an
> overnighter).
> > It'll take a bit of work...need to build some ramps, move some rocks,
set
> > the winch point, etc.
>


6837 From: Rick Buddrus <buddrus@f...>
Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 5:03pm
Subject: Damage from Rock Crawling event


After the Rock Crawling event, several individuals called and e-mailed
to State and BLM officials that "The Desert had been destroyed". At the
invitation of BLM and concerned with the allegations of "Destruction",
Mr. Terry Heslin, State OHV Coordinator, visted the site last week to
see for himself what damage had been done. Today, I received the
following e-mail from him. Thought it might be appropriate for posting.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Terry Heslin <theslin@p...>
>To: Rick Buddrus <buddrus1@p...>
>Date: Monday, March 20, 2000 2:45 PM
>Subject: RE: Rock Crawling
>
>
>> RE: Rock Crawling
3/20/0
>>Rick,
>>The rockcrawling site looked pretty darn good, considering 60
contestant
>vehicles, and 1800 spectators (plus 800 vehicles) had been all over the
>place only a few days before. I would expect that after a flashflood
or
>two, you'd be hard pressed to make a case that the event had any long
term
>adverse effects. There were a few areas where cactus had been
squished by
>inappropriate parking, but nothing that will be evident in a year or
so,
>unless people continue to park in the same areas.
>>TH
>>


6838 From: Tom Quinn <tom@q...>
Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 5:10pm
Subject: Re: Damage from Rock Crawling event


What trails were the event courses actually part of? I think I was on
course 2 - the one that ended in an awesome vertical up and over that
very few made. On Saturday the first competitor (white TJ) broke an
axle if that helps.

Thanks.

"rick buddrus" <buddru-@f...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/az_vjc/?start=6837
> After the Rock Crawling event, several individuals called and e-mailed
> to State and BLM officials that "The Desert had been destroyed". At
the
> invitation of BLM and concerned with the allegations of "Destruction",
> Mr. Terry Heslin, State OHV Coordinator, visted the site last week to
> see for himself what damage had been done. Today, I received the
> following e-mail from him. Thought it might be appropriate for
posting.
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Terry Heslin <theslin@p...>
> >To: Rick Buddrus <buddrus1@p...>
> >Date: Monday, March 20, 2000 2:45 PM
> >Subject: RE: Rock Crawling
> >
> >
> >> RE: Rock Crawling
> 3/20/0
> >>Rick,
> >>The rockcrawling site looked pretty darn good, considering 60
> contestant
> >vehicles, and 1800 spectators (plus 800 vehicles) had been all over
the
> >place only a few days before. I would expect that after a flashflood
> or
> >two, you'd be hard pressed to make a case that the event had any long
> term
> >adverse effects. There were a few areas where cactus had been
> squished by
> >inappropriate parking, but nothing that will be evident in a year or
> so,
> >unless people continue to park in the same areas.
> >>TH
> >>
>
>


6839 From: Tom Quinn <tom@q...>
Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 5:07pm
Subject: Re: Trail work


The requirements are far beyond me so I'm out, but I sure hope to see
some pics! Sounds awesome!!

"dougb" <azjee-@h...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/az_vjc/?start=6836
> We're looking for a few good jeeps - to help in fixing up an existing
trail.
> Below is a brief description of it. We'd like to do an overnight work
party,
> next week-end (March 25-26). Preferably, we're looking for Jeeps that
are
> well lifted, locked and have a winch. The scenery in this area is
absolutely
> stunning, and the trail has some pretty awesome obstacles in the last
> portions of the trail - (class 4+) - with one point that may require a
> winch - won't know for sure until we try it.
>
> If your interested, shoot out a note, and we'll put it together. A
small
> party of Jeeps (5 or so) would be perfect.
>
> > > Awesome day - absolutely stunning scenery.
> > > We were trying to find a
> > > loop trail in to the "trail" - which we found, after going over a
series
> > of
> > > maps and info. We're working on a name for the trail. It has a
15' high
> > > water fall (dry) as the principle obstacle. We figured out
> > > where the winch point will be - this will be needed at least as a
> > > safety measure (to prevent someone from turning turtle).
> > >
> > > The loop trail in is probably about 3-4 miles of fairly easy
class 2+,
> > with
> > > a couple of very light class 3 wash outs. It leads to the Canyon
(soon
> to
> > be
> > > named), where the 'rock garden', 'launch pad', 'slippery rock',
and
> 'ball
> > > bearing hill' are located.
> > > This later part of the trail is probably a class 4+, with the
'launch
> pad'
> > a
> > > possible 5
> > > We're really not certain it can be done w/o a winch - we think
it can,
> > > but everyone should probably have a winch cable hooked to them as
a
> safety
> > > measure (at least the first time up it), cause it goes near
vertical at
> > the
> > > top. Awesome.
> > >
> > > The trail needs a bit of work to get it ready. It's a recognized
trail
> > (it's
> > > on the maps) but was badly washed out years ago, and is now termed
> > > "impassable".
> > > And today, we found the loop in to it.
> > >
> > > We're gonna try to schedule a work party for next week end (an
> > overnighter).
> > > It'll take a bit of work...need to build some ramps, move some
rocks,
> set
> > > the winch point, etc.
> >
>


6840 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 5:15pm
Subject: Re: Trailers


Wish I had that 405 for towing. Anyways, we have aq Starcraft tent trailer.
It weighs about 1700 lbs. My TJ tows it just fine with no wandering
tendancies. It may be a bit big for the CJ though (Can't remember the tow
rating on my old one). I could use a little more oomph going up the
mountains, but I'm going to try a new free flowing exhaust system and maybe
a power chip to up the ante on that. I really like the Starcraft we have. It
has a water heater, indoor and outdoor shower (hot and cold for both),
toilet, heat, 3 way fridge, and all the other usual trailer amenities. My
wife, like yours, would never be caught dead in a tent, but loves "camping"
in the trailer. We looked at the Starcraft and the Coleman, but decided on
the Starcraft because you get more bang for the buck. I think ours was obout
$7000 out the door but don't quote me on that. We got it at Payless Camper
sales on Bell Rd. At the time, they were offering a free screen room with
the camper.
The other nice thing about a camper (even a popup) is that it is considered
a second home by the IRS and all interest is tax deductible!

Chris K
Blue 97 TJ

> From: "Larry Farquhar" <lfar@h...>
> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 16:10:30 -0700
> To: "Az_Vjc" <az_vjc@egroups.com>
> Subject: [az_vjc] Trailers
>
> Hope everyone is having a great weekend!
>
> I'm looking for recommendations on a camping trailer for a CJ5. What is the
> largest recommended length and GVWR to tow? The CJ5 has stock AMC 405 engine
> and 3-speed. My wife doesn't want to tent camp, and I can't afford a
> Motorhome, insurance, gas, and storage. So a fair compromise would be a tent
> trailer. Any suggestions, experience or words of wisdom?
>
> Larry
> '75 CJ5
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Group buying power teams you with others to save more. Get the
> lowest prices on all the latest Palms and accessories when you
> buy through Accompany, the Web's leading destination for great
> deals on group buys.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/2512/6/_/1966/_/953507491/
>
> -- Talk to your group with your own voice!
> -- http://www.egroups.com/VoiceChatPage?listName=az_vjc&m=1
>
>


6841 From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 5:25pm
Subject: Re: Trailers


A co-worker managed to get the one-time trailer registration on her Coleman
pop-up. I don't know how she did it. I thought that was only for light-weight
utility trailers.

Linda

Chris Krieg wrote:

> Wish I had that 405 for towing. Anyways, we have aq Starcraft tent trailer.
> It weighs about 1700 lbs. My TJ tows it just fine with no wandering
> tendancies. It may be a bit big for the CJ though (Can't remember the tow
> rating on my old one). I could use a little more oomph going up the
> mountains, but I'm going to try a new free flowing exhaust system and maybe
> a power chip to up the ante on that. I really like the Starcraft we have. It
> has a water heater, indoor and outdoor shower (hot and cold for both),
> toilet, heat, 3 way fridge, and all the other usual trailer amenities. My
> wife, like yours, would never be caught dead in a tent, but loves "camping"
> in the trailer. We looked at the Starcraft and the Coleman, but decided on
> the Starcraft because you get more bang for the buck. I think ours was obout
> $7000 out the door but don't quote me on that. We got it at Payless Camper
> sales on Bell Rd. At the time, they were offering a free screen room with
> the camper.
> The other nice thing about a camper (even a popup) is that it is considered
> a second home by the IRS and all interest is tax deductible!
>
> Chris K
> Blue 97 TJ
>
> > From: "Larry Farquhar" <lfar@h...>
> > Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 16:10:30 -0700
> > To: "Az_Vjc" <az_vjc@egroups.com>
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Trailers
> >
> > Hope everyone is having a great weekend!
> >
> > I'm looking for recommendations on a camping trailer for a CJ5. What is the
> > largest recommended length and GVWR to tow? The CJ5 has stock AMC 405 engine
> > and 3-speed. My wife doesn't want to tent camp, and I can't afford a
> > Motorhome, insurance, gas, and storage. So a fair compromise would be a tent
> > trailer. Any suggestions, experience or words of wisdom?
> >
> > Larry
> > '75 CJ5
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Group buying power teams you with others to save more. Get the
> > lowest prices on all the latest Palms and accessories when you
> > buy through Accompany, the Web's leading destination for great
> > deals on group buys.
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/2512/6/_/1966/_/953507491/
> >
> > -- Talk to your group with your own voice!
> > -- http://www.egroups.com/VoiceChatPage?listName=az_vjc&m=1
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com:
> http://click.egroups.com/1/2377/6/_/1966/_/953601488/
>
> eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/az_vjc/
> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications


6842 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 5:32pm
Subject: Re: Trailers


That's truly odd. They must have registered it as a utility trailer or
something like that. Oh yeah, and since the liscensing costs here in AZ are
based on vehicle value, you can ALSO deduct that part of the tags fees that
are based on value.
Deduct licensing fees.
Deduct finance interest charges.
Double tax whammy

Chris

> From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
> Reply-To: minihummer@w...
> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:25:15 -0700
> To: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
> Cc: Larry Farquhar <lfar@h...>, Az_Vjc <az_vjc@egroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Trailers
>
> A co-worker managed to get the one-time trailer registration on her Coleman
> pop-up. I don't know how she did it. I thought that was only for light-weight
> utility trailers.
>
> Linda
>
> Chris Krieg wrote:
>
>> Wish I had that 405 for towing. Anyways, we have aq Starcraft tent trailer.
>> It weighs about 1700 lbs. My TJ tows it just fine with no wandering
>> tendancies. It may be a bit big for the CJ though (Can't remember the tow
>> rating on my old one). I could use a little more oomph going up the
>> mountains, but I'm going to try a new free flowing exhaust system and maybe
>> a power chip to up the ante on that. I really like the Starcraft we have. It
>> has a water heater, indoor and outdoor shower (hot and cold for both),
>> toilet, heat, 3 way fridge, and all the other usual trailer amenities. My
>> wife, like yours, would never be caught dead in a tent, but loves "camping"
>> in the trailer. We looked at the Starcraft and the Coleman, but decided on
>> the Starcraft because you get more bang for the buck. I think ours was obout
>> $7000 out the door but don't quote me on that. We got it at Payless Camper
>> sales on Bell Rd. At the time, they were offering a free screen room with
>> the camper.
>> The other nice thing about a camper (even a popup) is that it is considered
>> a second home by the IRS and all interest is tax deductible!
>>
>> Chris K
>> Blue 97 TJ
>>
>>> From: "Larry Farquhar" <lfar@h...>
>>> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 16:10:30 -0700
>>> To: "Az_Vjc" <az_vjc@egroups.com>
>>> Subject: [az_vjc] Trailers
>>>
>>> Hope everyone is having a great weekend!
>>>
>>> I'm looking for recommendations on a camping trailer for a CJ5. What is the
>>> largest recommended length and GVWR to tow? The CJ5 has stock AMC 405 engine
>>> and 3-speed. My wife doesn't want to tent camp, and I can't afford a
>>> Motorhome, insurance, gas, and storage. So a fair compromise would be a tent
>>> trailer. Any suggestions, experience or words of wisdom?
>>>
>>> Larry
>>> '75 CJ5
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Group buying power teams you with others to save more. Get the
>>> lowest prices on all the latest Palms and accessories when you
>>> buy through Accompany, the Web's leading destination for great
>>> deals on group buys.
>>> http://click.egroups.com/1/2512/6/_/1966/_/953507491/
>>>
>>> -- Talk to your group with your own voice!
>>> -- http://www.egroups.com/VoiceChatPage?listName=az_vjc&m=1
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com:
>> http://click.egroups.com/1/2377/6/_/1966/_/953601488/
>>
>> eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/az_vjc/
>> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
>
>