blooddrive
01-02-2004, 07:14 PM
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5916 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Wed Feb 23, 2000 4:50pm
Subject: Re: bad e-mail address for Red Creek
Mine came back too...so I just printed it out and mailed it in.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
To: az_vjc <az_vjc@egroups.com>
Cc: Joe Ruby <JoeRuby@w...>; <daver@c...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 2:49 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] bad e-mail address for Red Creek
> The e-mail address for Forest Ranger Lopez bounced. I have it as:
>
> dlopez/r3_tonto@f...
>
> Does anyone else have a valid one? I got this one from Dave Reinken's
> e-mail notice about Red Creek.
>
> Thanks.......Stu
>
> Stu Olson N7QJP
> Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
> http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
> http://home.off-road.com/~stu
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> At calypso.com, members create their very own web stores to earn $$.
> Just point, click & type to create a store. Earn extra money when you,
> family or friends shop from your store. Click to
> http://click.egroups.com/1/1589/4/_/1966/_/951342858/
>
> eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/az_vjc/
> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
5917 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Wed Feb 23, 2000 4:51pm
Subject: Re: Coves cleanup - spreading the word
Excellent! Thanks Len.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: Sullivan, Len <LSULLIV@C...>
To: <az_vjc@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 4:02 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Coves cleanup - spreading the word
> Hi all
>
> Here is a copy of the announcement I posted on our company bulletin board
> today. I'm also going to draft a letter similar to the one Dave sent to
> KUPD and send it to KZZP and KMLE - both of which happen to be in the same
> building where I work. :-)
>
>
> Len
>
> ************************************************** ************************
>
>
> The Arizona Virtual Jeep Club http://azvjc.web.com/ is sponsoring the
Second
> Annual Saguaro Lake Clean-up Run on March 4th and 5th. The Coves area
north
> of Saguaro Lake is used by hikers, campers, and off-road vehicle
enthusiasts
> year round, but unfortunately not all of them take their trash home with
> them. The Arizona Virtual Jeep Club is working to keep our state clean
and
> to keep our public lands open for all outdoor enthusiasts by adopting the
> Coves and keeping the area clean on a volunteer basis.
>
> All outdoor enthusiasts are welcome to participate in this event......come
> out and enjoy the fresh air, sunshine, beautiful scenery, and the
> satisfaction of helping to keep our state beautiful.
>
> For more information on the Coves recreational area, go to
> http://members.aol.com/Revolvr/az_lake.htm
>
> For more information on this event, contact Len Sullivan at
> mailto:kermit@c...
>
>
>
> We did not inherit the Earth from our ancestors,
> We are borrowing it from our children.
>
> ************************************************
> Len Sullivan
> Vendor Direct Transmissions
> and Faxstar Operations Coordinator
> CSK Automotive, Inc.
> 602.631.7845
> mailto:lsulliv@c...
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who
> are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and
> put your mind to rest.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/1404/4/_/1966/_/951347171/
>
> -- Check out your group's private Chat room
> -- http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=az_vjc&m=1
>
>
>
5918 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Wed Feb 23, 2000 4:54pm
Subject: Re: Tera Flex or Rubicon Express or other
They're both excellent (Tera or RE). If your looking for a quality lift,
either one of those would be a good choice. One difference - the Tera 4 inch
kit has a stronger/firmer spring rate than the RE - so it's stiffer ride
(which I like), but the RE's softer on the road (which has it's benefits).
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: <clinttravis@s...>
To: <az_vjc@eGroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 4:19 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Tera Flex or Rubicon Express or other
> Who makes the best 4" to 5"lift kit for a TJ
>
> Tera Flex, Rubicon Express or another company?
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> WANT FREE MAGAZINES?
> Sample over 500 magazines in 30 categories-- all for FREE at
> FreeShop.com, your source for thousands of free and trial offers!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/1610/4/_/1966/_/951348000/
>
> -- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar!
> -- http://www.egroups.com/cal?listname=az_vjc&m=1
>
>
5919 From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Date: Wed Feb 23, 2000 5:22pm
Subject: Closing FR18
e-mail to:
dlopez/r3_tonto@f...
Cc to: rsteinke/r3_tonto@f...
Bazan_Charles/r3_tonto@f...
It is advisable to print a hardcopy of your e-mail and send it to the
address above.
Please include a statement or two of your own in this letter if you can.
The comment period ends March 3, 2000.
Thanks!
Linda Luik
ASA4WDC Land Use/Conservation Chair
================================================== =========
Delvin R. Lopez
District Ranger
Cave Creek Ranger District
40202 N. Cave Creek Road
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
Dear Mr. Lopez,
It has come to my attention that EA regarding Red Creek Road (Forest
Road # 18) has only one option to continue to allow OHV use, Alternate
A. Alternates B-F would eliminate recreation opportunity and reduce
access along Red Creek and the Verde River. I strongly encourage you to
select Alternate A when making the final decision on the fate of this
area along the Verde River. The Red Creek Road last open motorized
access to the Verde River in the thirty three miles between Child's
power plant and the Sheep's Bridge. It would be a great loss not only
to the OHV community but to every one who enjoys the Arizona outdoors.
My reference to the EA, in this letter, was provded by a dear friend and
fellow outdoor enthusiast. I was unable to obtain a copy of the EA.
I understand that the EA, section 3.6, contains the statement:
"Direct hoof impact on stream banks and utilization of riparian
vegetation is the primary factor destabilizing stream banks and causing
the channel to widen."
I spend a lot of time in the desert on BLM, Arizona State Trust Land and
U.S. Forest land and have spent many pleasant days exploring the area
in and around the Red Creek Trail. I have never seen evidence of
cattle causing destabilization of the Red Creek stream bank and/or
widening of its channel. Most of the times that I have been there the
creek was relatively narrow (less than 5 feet wide) and only a couple
inches deep. I have never seen cattle tracks in the water. Every time I
explore creeks and washes in this area I notice debris left from flash
floods left high in the rock walls and trees. It is easy to imagine the
modifications to creek bed each time this happens. Needless to say, it
is doubtful that either animals or OHVs will modify the Red Creek as
much as a heavy spring rain.
I am glad to note that the excerpt from section 3.6 do not consider OHV
use in the area to be a contributing factor to the stream bank
destabilization. I have never seen evidence of OHV traffic causing
damage to Red Creek. Mostly because of the rocky "filters" early on in
the trail that keep all except the most interested back country
explorers out. Since this trail is also quite remote for most people, I
don't think it sees a lot of traffic.
I also understand that the cost of closing the road, ($6500 to make it
inaccessible) and cost of keeping it closed ($1900 per year for law
enforcement) are expenses that can be avoided or drastically reduced by
allowing an OHV or 4x4 club to maintain the trail. I would gladly
support an adopt-a-trail program if you would consider this in regards
to helping keep Red Creek open.
As a member of the Arizona State Association of Four Wheel Drive Clubs,
I strongly urge you to consider leaving FR18 open for the vehicle
traffic it currently supports. Closing FR18 and eliminating access to
that part of the Verde River would be a great loss to all of us.
Sincerely,
You may contact me at:
5920 From: Leah Eliscu <jeep@a...>
Date: Wed Feb 23, 2000 8:35pm
Subject: Re: See the Article
Yes, it showed up at the TRR's meeting last night.
I did'nt get to read it yet. It's written by Jerry.
I don't know why some people were not impressed by it?!?!
Leah
From: Matt Barker <azjeeps@freewwweb.com>
Did anyone happen to catch the article on the Charleau Gap in the April edition of 4wd and Sport Utility? Just figured some folks would be interested. Check it out on page 32.
Matt B.
94 YJ
http://azjeeps.web.com
Range Riders 4 Wheelers
Arizonal Virtual Jeep Club
5921 From: Tim Naylor <tim.naylor@w...>
Date: Wed Feb 23, 2000 9:02pm
Subject: TJ Body lift questions
Thanks to Doug, Stu and Pete for responding to my question about a body lift
on my TJ. I am ordering the Curie motor mounts and I will give it a try.
I'll let you know how it goes.
Tim
97 TJ with almost all the stuff.
5922 From: O'Boyle, David <David.OBoyle@b...>
Date: Wed Feb 23, 2000 10:15pm
Subject: FW: Fourwheelers cleanup reply from Dave Pratt
-----Original Message-----
From: davepratt [mailto:dave@9...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 6:55 PM
To: Dave O'Boyle
Subject: Re: Fourwheelers cleanup
Dave!
I appreciate the info, and I commend you on your efforts. Good luck
and keep kickin' *** buddy!!
Dave Pratt
The Morning Mayor
98KUPD
5923 From: James A Langdon <yucca-man@j...>
Date: Wed Feb 23, 2000 10:35pm
Subject: Re: FINALLY!!!
Wow! It took you six years to receive the lift?? What shipper did you
use, USPS? Sounds like you've got a long weekend planned out already
Matt. Enjoy the install, and look forward to wheeling with you after
it's installed.
Jim Yucca-man@j...
Dirty 1/2 dozen - Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
http://azvjc.web.com
89 Cherokee (Resurrected?) 73 CJ5 (RIP)
On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 16:54:54 -0700 "Matt Barker" <azjeeps@f...>
writes:
> Well, after 6 years of owning my YJ, today I finally received my 4.5"
> Extreme Duty Rubicon Express lift. Hopefully I can get it put on
> this weekend and try it out. I am sooooooo excited. You can't
> imagine how long I have been waiting for this moment! Of course,
> this isn't the end of it....
>
> Matt B.
> 94 YJ
> http://azjeeps.web.com
> Range Riders 4 Wheelers
> Arizonal Virtual Jeep Club
__________________________________________________ ______________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
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5924 From: Andy's Jeep Account <amjeep@h...>
Date: Thu Feb 17, 2000 10:36am
Subject: New heights for the TJ
I spoke to someone at Rubicon Express to and verified that they are coming
out with a new 6 inch lift kit for TJs in about two months. Many of you may
have seen the pictures circulated a few weeks ago. The cost for the kit will
be (approx):
$1200.00 if you already have a RE 4.5" kit
$2200.00 if not
Just FYI
Andy & Tina Mason
Black 99TJ
5925 From: John Doe <jeepboy50@h...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 1:12am
Subject: custom metal work
hey everyone,
i am in tucson and i am trying to find someone who builds custom bumpers.
does ne1 know of ne1 in tucson who does this?
thanx
jake
99 tj
__________________________________________________ ____
5926 From: Dave Reinken <daver@c...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 5:33am
Subject: Re: bad e-mail address for Red Creek
I got shuffled around on the phone with these people yesterday afternoon
(U: You need to talk to X over here. X: No, you need to talk to Y over
at this location. Y: No you need to talk to Z back where X is. Z: Not
available, left message. Aggravating.) I'll be starting in on them
again this AM. I'll see if I can get a valid email address for Mr.
Lopez, along with some copies (preferably machine readable) of the
actual report in question.
Stu Olson wrote:
>
> The e-mail address for Forest Ranger Lopez bounced. I have it as:
>
> dlopez/r3_tonto@f...
>
> Does anyone else have a valid one? I got this one from Dave Reinken's
> e-mail notice about Red Creek.
>
> Thanks.......Stu
>
> Stu Olson N7QJP
> Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
> http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
> http://home.off-road.com/~stu
5927 From: Leah Eliscu <eliscu@m...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 6:54am
Subject: Re: custom metal work
Talk to Scott Sides at Profab - he does custom fabrication
his number is 520/722-8573.
Leah
John Doe wrote:
->
> hey everyone,
> i am in tucson and i am trying to find someone who builds custom bumpers.
> does ne1 know of ne1 in tucson who does this?
> thanx
> jake
> 99 tj
5928 From: Dave Reinken <daver@c...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 9:24am
Subject: Re: bad e-mail address for Red Creek
I was told that _everyone_ is out of the office and unavailable today.
I am welcome to call back tomorrow, when someone "hopefully" (their
words) will be in the office.
Hell of a way to run a railroad, I tell ya.
I'll probably take off work early tomorrow, drive up there and camp in
their office until I get something, if I can't get them to give me any
info tomorrow AM.
Heck, I can pick up the kids from school on the way. If wild boys
running through their office doesn't motivate them, I don't know what
will.
Dave Reinken wrote:
>
> I got shuffled around on the phone with these people yesterday afternoon
> (U: You need to talk to X over here. X: No, you need to talk to Y over
> at this location. Y: No you need to talk to Z back where X is. Z: Not
> available, left message. Aggravating.) I'll be starting in on them
> again this AM. I'll see if I can get a valid email address for Mr.
> Lopez, along with some copies (preferably machine readable) of the
> actual report in question.
>
> Stu Olson wrote:
> >
> > The e-mail address for Forest Ranger Lopez bounced. I have it as:
> >
> > dlopez/r3_tonto@f...
> >
> > Does anyone else have a valid one? I got this one from Dave Reinken's
> > e-mail notice about Red Creek.
> >
> > Thanks.......Stu
> >
> > Stu Olson N7QJP
> > Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
> > http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
> > http://home.off-road.com/~stu
5929 From: Larry Maggio <lmaggio@p...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 9:34am
Subject: Broken Arrow this Saturday
Im trying to get an idea of who or how many plan on making this
trip....please respond if you intend to join us.
Forecast calls for 75 degrees in Phoenix. Should be nice in Sedona.
Thanks.
Larry
5930 From: Sullivan, Len <LSULLIV@C...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 9:38am
Subject: Re: Broken Arrow this Saturday
I'd love to go, but I need to spend some quality time under the jeep this
weekend. Is there anybody else who can't make the run this weekend that
would like to go in about a month? I want to check out this trail as a
possible wedding spot........ :-)
Len Sullivan
Vendor Direct Transmissions
and Faxstar Operations Coordinator
CSK Automotive, Inc.
602.631.7845
mailto:lsulliv@c...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Maggio
> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 10:35 AM
> To: az_vjc@egroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Broken Arrow this Saturday
>
> Im trying to get an idea of who or how many plan on making this
> trip....please respond if you intend to join us.
>
> Forecast calls for 75 degrees in Phoenix. Should be nice in Sedona.
>
>
> Thanks.
> Larry
>
>
>
5931 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 9:40am
Subject: Re: bad e-mail address for Red Creek
Everyone....everyone....EVERYONE!!!!
Hmmm......boy, I would think that our forest rangers, with a college degree,
would be able to come up with a better excuse than that. If you have a cell
phone, call them from the parking lot and wait for the "everyone" excuse.
After that, walk into the office and see if you can find "anyone" (only use
your first name if asked). If "anyone" shows up to help, then ask them why
"everyone" is gone when you just called 1 minute ago.
Stu
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Dave Reinken [mailto:daver@c...]
>Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 10:25
>To: Stu Olson; az_vjc
>Subject: [az_vjc] Re: bad e-mail address for Red Creek
>
>
>I was told that _everyone_ is out of the office and unavailable today.
>I am welcome to call back tomorrow, when someone "hopefully" (their
>words) will be in the office.
>
>Hell of a way to run a railroad, I tell ya.
>
>I'll probably take off work early tomorrow, drive up there and camp in
>their office until I get something, if I can't get them to give me any
>info tomorrow AM.
>
>Heck, I can pick up the kids from school on the way. If wild boys
>running through their office doesn't motivate them, I don't know what
>will.
>
>Dave Reinken wrote:
>>
>> I got shuffled around on the phone with these people yesterday afternoon
>> (U: You need to talk to X over here. X: No, you need to talk to Y over
>> at this location. Y: No you need to talk to Z back where X is. Z: Not
>> available, left message. Aggravating.) I'll be starting in on them
>> again this AM. I'll see if I can get a valid email address for Mr.
>> Lopez, along with some copies (preferably machine readable) of the
>> actual report in question.
>>
>> Stu Olson wrote:
>> >
>> > The e-mail address for Forest Ranger Lopez bounced. I have it as:
>> >
>> > dlopez/r3_tonto@f...
>> >
>> > Does anyone else have a valid one? I got this one from Dave Reinken's
>> > e-mail notice about Red Creek.
>> >
>> > Thanks.......Stu
>> >
>> > Stu Olson N7QJP
>> > Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
>> > http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
>> > http://home.off-road.com/~stu
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/az_vjc/
>http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
>
>
5932 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 10:36am
Subject: better news about forests
http://www.denverpost.com/news/news0224l.htm
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
5933 From: Hal Loy <tucsonhal@e...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 11:21am
Subject: Run Mon. 2/28
I would like to take a run Mon. 2/28, I don't have a destination in
mind yet, but Rice Peak was suggested, someone else would need to lead
that one as I've never been there. I can lead to Chiva Falls or
Charleou Gap but anywhere in the lower half of the state would be fine
if we can get a leader. I can run 4+'s and enjoy 5's (I only have 31"
tires and may need to be strapped or winched depending on the severity
of the obsticles on a 5).
5934 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 11:30am
Subject: Re: Run Mon. 2/28
I need to calibrate myself. I use the Moab trail rating system where a 5
stops any and every vehicle from going on.
What rating system is used here by the VJC? (ie., the range of the scale)
Stu
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Hal Loy [mailto:tucsonhal@e...]
>Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 12:22
>To: az_vjc@eGroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Run Mon. 2/28
>
>
>I would like to take a run Mon. 2/28, I don't have a destination in
>mind yet, but Rice Peak was suggested, someone else would need to lead
>that one as I've never been there. I can lead to Chiva Falls or
>Charleou Gap but anywhere in the lower half of the state would be fine
>if we can get a leader. I can run 4+'s and enjoy 5's (I only have 31"
>tires and may need to be strapped or winched depending on the severity
>of the obsticles on a 5).
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-- Create a poll/survey for your group!
>-- http://www.egroups.com/vote?listname=az_vjc&m=1
>
>
>
5935 From: Erin Morley <eandkm@u...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 11:33am
Subject: broken arrow sat
My wife and I will definetely be there. Is there anyone coming from the
east valley. I live in Gilbert if anyone wants to meet somewhere and
head up from there.
Erin
5936 From: Dave Reinken <daver@c...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 11:40am
Subject: Re: Run Mon. 2/28
He's probably using a 10-point system- 5=10, 4+ - 5 would be 2 - 2.5 or
so.
Maybe closer to 3.
Stu Olson wrote:
>
> I need to calibrate myself. I use the Moab trail rating system where a 5
> stops any and every vehicle from going on.
>
> What rating system is used here by the VJC? (ie., the range of the scale)
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson N7QJP
> Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
> http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
> http://home.off-road.com/~stu
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Hal Loy [mailto:tucsonhal@e...]
> >Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 12:22
> >To: az_vjc@eGroups.com
> >Subject: [az_vjc] Run Mon. 2/28
> >
> >
> >I would like to take a run Mon. 2/28, I don't have a destination in
> >mind yet, but Rice Peak was suggested, someone else would need to lead
> >that one as I've never been there. I can lead to Chiva Falls or
> >Charleou Gap but anywhere in the lower half of the state would be fine
> >if we can get a leader. I can run 4+'s and enjoy 5's (I only have 31"
> >tires and may need to be strapped or winched depending on the severity
> >of the obsticles on a 5).
5937 From: Bryan <bryan.loveless@N...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 11:52am
Subject: decisions, decisions....
I own a 1988 cherokee with the 4.0L and a 5 speed. I live in flagstaff. My
dad in globe wants to trade me his 1991 wrangler with the 2.5L 5 speed, soft
top, and then trade mine in for a new vehicle. I cant decide if I should
trade. The cherokee's throwout bearing just started making noise and it
leaks oil (just like every jeep) but I love it to death. The wranger only
has the 4cyl (read no power) and it has a nasty engine problem where it
doesnt want to stay on if you let off of the gas suddenly. I know the
wranger is worth more, but I really like the power of the 4.0L, and I
actually know what is wrong with the cherokee. What would you do in my
situation?
--Bryan
bryan.loveless@n...
p.s. and if I keep the cherokee, how do I get the tranny out to replace the
throwout bearing?.. the last time I did that it was in a '73 cj-5, and half
the floorboards came out....
.
5938 From: Linda Luik <p14175@e...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 11:49am
Subject: USFS management
Please remember that the USFS rangers are on our side. They have been
instructed by their management not to speak to the public about certain forest
policies and projects. So if they seem a bit vaque in their anwers it could be
that they just don't want to lose their jobs. They are really caught between a
rock and a hard place.
Linda
Attachment: vcard [not shown]
5939 From: Leah Eliscu <eliscu@m...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 11:53am
Subject: Trail Ratings example
Following is a commonly used rating system
1 Rating
All weather road; 4WD not needed
1.5 Rating
Graded road; 4WD may be needed in poor weather
2 Rating
Unimproved or rarely graded road. 4WD or extra clearance needed
at times, with no special driving skills required
2.5 Rating
Road rarely maintained, 4WD, good clearance, low gears often
needed, with some extra care and a bit of driving experience useful
3 Rating
Road in difficult terrain, rarely maintained, 4WD, good clearance,
and low gears essential, with some driving skill and daring
required
3.5 Rating
Road in difficult terrain, probably maintained only by occasional
users. Excellent stock truck or utility vehicle required, with
considerable driving skill and daring needed
4 Rating
Trail either never bladed or badly eroded. Stock vehicles are in
jeopardy. Modifications for improved off-road performance and top
driving skills needed
4+ Rating
We can hardly improve on the original description written a few
years ago by Jack Bickers: "with driving by World Class Yahoo
Jeepers not much concerned with vehicle durability or personal
safety." It is common to have as many as 10 percent of the vehicles
experience major mechanical failures (gears, axles, driveshafts) on
these trails.
5940 From: Leah Eliscu <eliscu@m...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 0:04pm
Subject: a national level description for 4WD Recreational roads
I really like this trail rating system.
check it out; scroll down to the bottom of the page;
http://www.cohvco.org/ca4wdci/web_pgs/rd_ratng.htm
Leah
5916 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Wed Feb 23, 2000 4:50pm
Subject: Re: bad e-mail address for Red Creek
Mine came back too...so I just printed it out and mailed it in.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
To: az_vjc <az_vjc@egroups.com>
Cc: Joe Ruby <JoeRuby@w...>; <daver@c...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 2:49 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] bad e-mail address for Red Creek
> The e-mail address for Forest Ranger Lopez bounced. I have it as:
>
> dlopez/r3_tonto@f...
>
> Does anyone else have a valid one? I got this one from Dave Reinken's
> e-mail notice about Red Creek.
>
> Thanks.......Stu
>
> Stu Olson N7QJP
> Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
> http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
> http://home.off-road.com/~stu
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> At calypso.com, members create their very own web stores to earn $$.
> Just point, click & type to create a store. Earn extra money when you,
> family or friends shop from your store. Click to
> http://click.egroups.com/1/1589/4/_/1966/_/951342858/
>
> eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/az_vjc/
> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
5917 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Wed Feb 23, 2000 4:51pm
Subject: Re: Coves cleanup - spreading the word
Excellent! Thanks Len.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: Sullivan, Len <LSULLIV@C...>
To: <az_vjc@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 4:02 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Coves cleanup - spreading the word
> Hi all
>
> Here is a copy of the announcement I posted on our company bulletin board
> today. I'm also going to draft a letter similar to the one Dave sent to
> KUPD and send it to KZZP and KMLE - both of which happen to be in the same
> building where I work. :-)
>
>
> Len
>
> ************************************************** ************************
>
>
> The Arizona Virtual Jeep Club http://azvjc.web.com/ is sponsoring the
Second
> Annual Saguaro Lake Clean-up Run on March 4th and 5th. The Coves area
north
> of Saguaro Lake is used by hikers, campers, and off-road vehicle
enthusiasts
> year round, but unfortunately not all of them take their trash home with
> them. The Arizona Virtual Jeep Club is working to keep our state clean
and
> to keep our public lands open for all outdoor enthusiasts by adopting the
> Coves and keeping the area clean on a volunteer basis.
>
> All outdoor enthusiasts are welcome to participate in this event......come
> out and enjoy the fresh air, sunshine, beautiful scenery, and the
> satisfaction of helping to keep our state beautiful.
>
> For more information on the Coves recreational area, go to
> http://members.aol.com/Revolvr/az_lake.htm
>
> For more information on this event, contact Len Sullivan at
> mailto:kermit@c...
>
>
>
> We did not inherit the Earth from our ancestors,
> We are borrowing it from our children.
>
> ************************************************
> Len Sullivan
> Vendor Direct Transmissions
> and Faxstar Operations Coordinator
> CSK Automotive, Inc.
> 602.631.7845
> mailto:lsulliv@c...
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> FREE ADVICE FROM REAL PEOPLE! Xpertsite has thousands of experts who
> are willing to answer your questions for FREE. Go to Xpertsite today and
> put your mind to rest.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/1404/4/_/1966/_/951347171/
>
> -- Check out your group's private Chat room
> -- http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=az_vjc&m=1
>
>
>
5918 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Wed Feb 23, 2000 4:54pm
Subject: Re: Tera Flex or Rubicon Express or other
They're both excellent (Tera or RE). If your looking for a quality lift,
either one of those would be a good choice. One difference - the Tera 4 inch
kit has a stronger/firmer spring rate than the RE - so it's stiffer ride
(which I like), but the RE's softer on the road (which has it's benefits).
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: <clinttravis@s...>
To: <az_vjc@eGroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 4:19 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Tera Flex or Rubicon Express or other
> Who makes the best 4" to 5"lift kit for a TJ
>
> Tera Flex, Rubicon Express or another company?
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> WANT FREE MAGAZINES?
> Sample over 500 magazines in 30 categories-- all for FREE at
> FreeShop.com, your source for thousands of free and trial offers!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/1610/4/_/1966/_/951348000/
>
> -- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar!
> -- http://www.egroups.com/cal?listname=az_vjc&m=1
>
>
5919 From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Date: Wed Feb 23, 2000 5:22pm
Subject: Closing FR18
e-mail to:
dlopez/r3_tonto@f...
Cc to: rsteinke/r3_tonto@f...
Bazan_Charles/r3_tonto@f...
It is advisable to print a hardcopy of your e-mail and send it to the
address above.
Please include a statement or two of your own in this letter if you can.
The comment period ends March 3, 2000.
Thanks!
Linda Luik
ASA4WDC Land Use/Conservation Chair
================================================== =========
Delvin R. Lopez
District Ranger
Cave Creek Ranger District
40202 N. Cave Creek Road
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
Dear Mr. Lopez,
It has come to my attention that EA regarding Red Creek Road (Forest
Road # 18) has only one option to continue to allow OHV use, Alternate
A. Alternates B-F would eliminate recreation opportunity and reduce
access along Red Creek and the Verde River. I strongly encourage you to
select Alternate A when making the final decision on the fate of this
area along the Verde River. The Red Creek Road last open motorized
access to the Verde River in the thirty three miles between Child's
power plant and the Sheep's Bridge. It would be a great loss not only
to the OHV community but to every one who enjoys the Arizona outdoors.
My reference to the EA, in this letter, was provded by a dear friend and
fellow outdoor enthusiast. I was unable to obtain a copy of the EA.
I understand that the EA, section 3.6, contains the statement:
"Direct hoof impact on stream banks and utilization of riparian
vegetation is the primary factor destabilizing stream banks and causing
the channel to widen."
I spend a lot of time in the desert on BLM, Arizona State Trust Land and
U.S. Forest land and have spent many pleasant days exploring the area
in and around the Red Creek Trail. I have never seen evidence of
cattle causing destabilization of the Red Creek stream bank and/or
widening of its channel. Most of the times that I have been there the
creek was relatively narrow (less than 5 feet wide) and only a couple
inches deep. I have never seen cattle tracks in the water. Every time I
explore creeks and washes in this area I notice debris left from flash
floods left high in the rock walls and trees. It is easy to imagine the
modifications to creek bed each time this happens. Needless to say, it
is doubtful that either animals or OHVs will modify the Red Creek as
much as a heavy spring rain.
I am glad to note that the excerpt from section 3.6 do not consider OHV
use in the area to be a contributing factor to the stream bank
destabilization. I have never seen evidence of OHV traffic causing
damage to Red Creek. Mostly because of the rocky "filters" early on in
the trail that keep all except the most interested back country
explorers out. Since this trail is also quite remote for most people, I
don't think it sees a lot of traffic.
I also understand that the cost of closing the road, ($6500 to make it
inaccessible) and cost of keeping it closed ($1900 per year for law
enforcement) are expenses that can be avoided or drastically reduced by
allowing an OHV or 4x4 club to maintain the trail. I would gladly
support an adopt-a-trail program if you would consider this in regards
to helping keep Red Creek open.
As a member of the Arizona State Association of Four Wheel Drive Clubs,
I strongly urge you to consider leaving FR18 open for the vehicle
traffic it currently supports. Closing FR18 and eliminating access to
that part of the Verde River would be a great loss to all of us.
Sincerely,
You may contact me at:
5920 From: Leah Eliscu <jeep@a...>
Date: Wed Feb 23, 2000 8:35pm
Subject: Re: See the Article
Yes, it showed up at the TRR's meeting last night.
I did'nt get to read it yet. It's written by Jerry.
I don't know why some people were not impressed by it?!?!
Leah
From: Matt Barker <azjeeps@freewwweb.com>
Did anyone happen to catch the article on the Charleau Gap in the April edition of 4wd and Sport Utility? Just figured some folks would be interested. Check it out on page 32.
Matt B.
94 YJ
http://azjeeps.web.com
Range Riders 4 Wheelers
Arizonal Virtual Jeep Club
5921 From: Tim Naylor <tim.naylor@w...>
Date: Wed Feb 23, 2000 9:02pm
Subject: TJ Body lift questions
Thanks to Doug, Stu and Pete for responding to my question about a body lift
on my TJ. I am ordering the Curie motor mounts and I will give it a try.
I'll let you know how it goes.
Tim
97 TJ with almost all the stuff.
5922 From: O'Boyle, David <David.OBoyle@b...>
Date: Wed Feb 23, 2000 10:15pm
Subject: FW: Fourwheelers cleanup reply from Dave Pratt
-----Original Message-----
From: davepratt [mailto:dave@9...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 6:55 PM
To: Dave O'Boyle
Subject: Re: Fourwheelers cleanup
Dave!
I appreciate the info, and I commend you on your efforts. Good luck
and keep kickin' *** buddy!!
Dave Pratt
The Morning Mayor
98KUPD
5923 From: James A Langdon <yucca-man@j...>
Date: Wed Feb 23, 2000 10:35pm
Subject: Re: FINALLY!!!
Wow! It took you six years to receive the lift?? What shipper did you
use, USPS? Sounds like you've got a long weekend planned out already
Matt. Enjoy the install, and look forward to wheeling with you after
it's installed.
Jim Yucca-man@j...
Dirty 1/2 dozen - Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
http://azvjc.web.com
89 Cherokee (Resurrected?) 73 CJ5 (RIP)
On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 16:54:54 -0700 "Matt Barker" <azjeeps@f...>
writes:
> Well, after 6 years of owning my YJ, today I finally received my 4.5"
> Extreme Duty Rubicon Express lift. Hopefully I can get it put on
> this weekend and try it out. I am sooooooo excited. You can't
> imagine how long I have been waiting for this moment! Of course,
> this isn't the end of it....
>
> Matt B.
> 94 YJ
> http://azjeeps.web.com
> Range Riders 4 Wheelers
> Arizonal Virtual Jeep Club
__________________________________________________ ______________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
5924 From: Andy's Jeep Account <amjeep@h...>
Date: Thu Feb 17, 2000 10:36am
Subject: New heights for the TJ
I spoke to someone at Rubicon Express to and verified that they are coming
out with a new 6 inch lift kit for TJs in about two months. Many of you may
have seen the pictures circulated a few weeks ago. The cost for the kit will
be (approx):
$1200.00 if you already have a RE 4.5" kit
$2200.00 if not
Just FYI
Andy & Tina Mason
Black 99TJ
5925 From: John Doe <jeepboy50@h...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 1:12am
Subject: custom metal work
hey everyone,
i am in tucson and i am trying to find someone who builds custom bumpers.
does ne1 know of ne1 in tucson who does this?
thanx
jake
99 tj
__________________________________________________ ____
5926 From: Dave Reinken <daver@c...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 5:33am
Subject: Re: bad e-mail address for Red Creek
I got shuffled around on the phone with these people yesterday afternoon
(U: You need to talk to X over here. X: No, you need to talk to Y over
at this location. Y: No you need to talk to Z back where X is. Z: Not
available, left message. Aggravating.) I'll be starting in on them
again this AM. I'll see if I can get a valid email address for Mr.
Lopez, along with some copies (preferably machine readable) of the
actual report in question.
Stu Olson wrote:
>
> The e-mail address for Forest Ranger Lopez bounced. I have it as:
>
> dlopez/r3_tonto@f...
>
> Does anyone else have a valid one? I got this one from Dave Reinken's
> e-mail notice about Red Creek.
>
> Thanks.......Stu
>
> Stu Olson N7QJP
> Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
> http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
> http://home.off-road.com/~stu
5927 From: Leah Eliscu <eliscu@m...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 6:54am
Subject: Re: custom metal work
Talk to Scott Sides at Profab - he does custom fabrication
his number is 520/722-8573.
Leah
John Doe wrote:
->
> hey everyone,
> i am in tucson and i am trying to find someone who builds custom bumpers.
> does ne1 know of ne1 in tucson who does this?
> thanx
> jake
> 99 tj
5928 From: Dave Reinken <daver@c...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 9:24am
Subject: Re: bad e-mail address for Red Creek
I was told that _everyone_ is out of the office and unavailable today.
I am welcome to call back tomorrow, when someone "hopefully" (their
words) will be in the office.
Hell of a way to run a railroad, I tell ya.
I'll probably take off work early tomorrow, drive up there and camp in
their office until I get something, if I can't get them to give me any
info tomorrow AM.
Heck, I can pick up the kids from school on the way. If wild boys
running through their office doesn't motivate them, I don't know what
will.
Dave Reinken wrote:
>
> I got shuffled around on the phone with these people yesterday afternoon
> (U: You need to talk to X over here. X: No, you need to talk to Y over
> at this location. Y: No you need to talk to Z back where X is. Z: Not
> available, left message. Aggravating.) I'll be starting in on them
> again this AM. I'll see if I can get a valid email address for Mr.
> Lopez, along with some copies (preferably machine readable) of the
> actual report in question.
>
> Stu Olson wrote:
> >
> > The e-mail address for Forest Ranger Lopez bounced. I have it as:
> >
> > dlopez/r3_tonto@f...
> >
> > Does anyone else have a valid one? I got this one from Dave Reinken's
> > e-mail notice about Red Creek.
> >
> > Thanks.......Stu
> >
> > Stu Olson N7QJP
> > Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
> > http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
> > http://home.off-road.com/~stu
5929 From: Larry Maggio <lmaggio@p...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 9:34am
Subject: Broken Arrow this Saturday
Im trying to get an idea of who or how many plan on making this
trip....please respond if you intend to join us.
Forecast calls for 75 degrees in Phoenix. Should be nice in Sedona.
Thanks.
Larry
5930 From: Sullivan, Len <LSULLIV@C...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 9:38am
Subject: Re: Broken Arrow this Saturday
I'd love to go, but I need to spend some quality time under the jeep this
weekend. Is there anybody else who can't make the run this weekend that
would like to go in about a month? I want to check out this trail as a
possible wedding spot........ :-)
Len Sullivan
Vendor Direct Transmissions
and Faxstar Operations Coordinator
CSK Automotive, Inc.
602.631.7845
mailto:lsulliv@c...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Maggio
> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 10:35 AM
> To: az_vjc@egroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Broken Arrow this Saturday
>
> Im trying to get an idea of who or how many plan on making this
> trip....please respond if you intend to join us.
>
> Forecast calls for 75 degrees in Phoenix. Should be nice in Sedona.
>
>
> Thanks.
> Larry
>
>
>
5931 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 9:40am
Subject: Re: bad e-mail address for Red Creek
Everyone....everyone....EVERYONE!!!!
Hmmm......boy, I would think that our forest rangers, with a college degree,
would be able to come up with a better excuse than that. If you have a cell
phone, call them from the parking lot and wait for the "everyone" excuse.
After that, walk into the office and see if you can find "anyone" (only use
your first name if asked). If "anyone" shows up to help, then ask them why
"everyone" is gone when you just called 1 minute ago.
Stu
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Dave Reinken [mailto:daver@c...]
>Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 10:25
>To: Stu Olson; az_vjc
>Subject: [az_vjc] Re: bad e-mail address for Red Creek
>
>
>I was told that _everyone_ is out of the office and unavailable today.
>I am welcome to call back tomorrow, when someone "hopefully" (their
>words) will be in the office.
>
>Hell of a way to run a railroad, I tell ya.
>
>I'll probably take off work early tomorrow, drive up there and camp in
>their office until I get something, if I can't get them to give me any
>info tomorrow AM.
>
>Heck, I can pick up the kids from school on the way. If wild boys
>running through their office doesn't motivate them, I don't know what
>will.
>
>Dave Reinken wrote:
>>
>> I got shuffled around on the phone with these people yesterday afternoon
>> (U: You need to talk to X over here. X: No, you need to talk to Y over
>> at this location. Y: No you need to talk to Z back where X is. Z: Not
>> available, left message. Aggravating.) I'll be starting in on them
>> again this AM. I'll see if I can get a valid email address for Mr.
>> Lopez, along with some copies (preferably machine readable) of the
>> actual report in question.
>>
>> Stu Olson wrote:
>> >
>> > The e-mail address for Forest Ranger Lopez bounced. I have it as:
>> >
>> > dlopez/r3_tonto@f...
>> >
>> > Does anyone else have a valid one? I got this one from Dave Reinken's
>> > e-mail notice about Red Creek.
>> >
>> > Thanks.......Stu
>> >
>> > Stu Olson N7QJP
>> > Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
>> > http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
>> > http://home.off-road.com/~stu
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/az_vjc/
>http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
>
>
5932 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 10:36am
Subject: better news about forests
http://www.denverpost.com/news/news0224l.htm
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
5933 From: Hal Loy <tucsonhal@e...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 11:21am
Subject: Run Mon. 2/28
I would like to take a run Mon. 2/28, I don't have a destination in
mind yet, but Rice Peak was suggested, someone else would need to lead
that one as I've never been there. I can lead to Chiva Falls or
Charleou Gap but anywhere in the lower half of the state would be fine
if we can get a leader. I can run 4+'s and enjoy 5's (I only have 31"
tires and may need to be strapped or winched depending on the severity
of the obsticles on a 5).
5934 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 11:30am
Subject: Re: Run Mon. 2/28
I need to calibrate myself. I use the Moab trail rating system where a 5
stops any and every vehicle from going on.
What rating system is used here by the VJC? (ie., the range of the scale)
Stu
Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Hal Loy [mailto:tucsonhal@e...]
>Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 12:22
>To: az_vjc@eGroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Run Mon. 2/28
>
>
>I would like to take a run Mon. 2/28, I don't have a destination in
>mind yet, but Rice Peak was suggested, someone else would need to lead
>that one as I've never been there. I can lead to Chiva Falls or
>Charleou Gap but anywhere in the lower half of the state would be fine
>if we can get a leader. I can run 4+'s and enjoy 5's (I only have 31"
>tires and may need to be strapped or winched depending on the severity
>of the obsticles on a 5).
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-- Create a poll/survey for your group!
>-- http://www.egroups.com/vote?listname=az_vjc&m=1
>
>
>
5935 From: Erin Morley <eandkm@u...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 11:33am
Subject: broken arrow sat
My wife and I will definetely be there. Is there anyone coming from the
east valley. I live in Gilbert if anyone wants to meet somewhere and
head up from there.
Erin
5936 From: Dave Reinken <daver@c...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 11:40am
Subject: Re: Run Mon. 2/28
He's probably using a 10-point system- 5=10, 4+ - 5 would be 2 - 2.5 or
so.
Maybe closer to 3.
Stu Olson wrote:
>
> I need to calibrate myself. I use the Moab trail rating system where a 5
> stops any and every vehicle from going on.
>
> What rating system is used here by the VJC? (ie., the range of the scale)
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson N7QJP
> Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
> http://www.users.uswest.net/~solson8
> http://home.off-road.com/~stu
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Hal Loy [mailto:tucsonhal@e...]
> >Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 12:22
> >To: az_vjc@eGroups.com
> >Subject: [az_vjc] Run Mon. 2/28
> >
> >
> >I would like to take a run Mon. 2/28, I don't have a destination in
> >mind yet, but Rice Peak was suggested, someone else would need to lead
> >that one as I've never been there. I can lead to Chiva Falls or
> >Charleou Gap but anywhere in the lower half of the state would be fine
> >if we can get a leader. I can run 4+'s and enjoy 5's (I only have 31"
> >tires and may need to be strapped or winched depending on the severity
> >of the obsticles on a 5).
5937 From: Bryan <bryan.loveless@N...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 11:52am
Subject: decisions, decisions....
I own a 1988 cherokee with the 4.0L and a 5 speed. I live in flagstaff. My
dad in globe wants to trade me his 1991 wrangler with the 2.5L 5 speed, soft
top, and then trade mine in for a new vehicle. I cant decide if I should
trade. The cherokee's throwout bearing just started making noise and it
leaks oil (just like every jeep) but I love it to death. The wranger only
has the 4cyl (read no power) and it has a nasty engine problem where it
doesnt want to stay on if you let off of the gas suddenly. I know the
wranger is worth more, but I really like the power of the 4.0L, and I
actually know what is wrong with the cherokee. What would you do in my
situation?
--Bryan
bryan.loveless@n...
p.s. and if I keep the cherokee, how do I get the tranny out to replace the
throwout bearing?.. the last time I did that it was in a '73 cj-5, and half
the floorboards came out....
.
5938 From: Linda Luik <p14175@e...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 11:49am
Subject: USFS management
Please remember that the USFS rangers are on our side. They have been
instructed by their management not to speak to the public about certain forest
policies and projects. So if they seem a bit vaque in their anwers it could be
that they just don't want to lose their jobs. They are really caught between a
rock and a hard place.
Linda
Attachment: vcard [not shown]
5939 From: Leah Eliscu <eliscu@m...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 11:53am
Subject: Trail Ratings example
Following is a commonly used rating system
1 Rating
All weather road; 4WD not needed
1.5 Rating
Graded road; 4WD may be needed in poor weather
2 Rating
Unimproved or rarely graded road. 4WD or extra clearance needed
at times, with no special driving skills required
2.5 Rating
Road rarely maintained, 4WD, good clearance, low gears often
needed, with some extra care and a bit of driving experience useful
3 Rating
Road in difficult terrain, rarely maintained, 4WD, good clearance,
and low gears essential, with some driving skill and daring
required
3.5 Rating
Road in difficult terrain, probably maintained only by occasional
users. Excellent stock truck or utility vehicle required, with
considerable driving skill and daring needed
4 Rating
Trail either never bladed or badly eroded. Stock vehicles are in
jeopardy. Modifications for improved off-road performance and top
driving skills needed
4+ Rating
We can hardly improve on the original description written a few
years ago by Jack Bickers: "with driving by World Class Yahoo
Jeepers not much concerned with vehicle durability or personal
safety." It is common to have as many as 10 percent of the vehicles
experience major mechanical failures (gears, axles, driveshafts) on
these trails.
5940 From: Leah Eliscu <eliscu@m...>
Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 0:04pm
Subject: a national level description for 4WD Recreational roads
I really like this trail rating system.
check it out; scroll down to the bottom of the page;
http://www.cohvco.org/ca4wdci/web_pgs/rd_ratng.htm
Leah