5564-5588

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5564 From: B H <boh105@e...>
Date: Wed Feb 9, 2000 3:56pm
Subject: 88 dana35 non c clip axle for sale


Hey All,
This weekend at Parker I realized two things I need to be lifted higher and
need 33" tires sooooo Im selling the tires on my cherokee and also the rear
axle a non c-clip Dana 35...the axles bolt in not clipped in. 500.00 obo,
this axle style is supposed to 50% stronger than the c-clip style, and will
bolt into any cherokee

The tires are 31x10.5 BFG TA baja champions they cost 284.63 each and Im
only asking 350.00 for all five....I also will sell the stock ten spokes
they are mounted on for 50.00 each if anyone is interested. the tires are
only several months old and have 95% of their tread left.

Brian Harmon
88 XJ, Dana44 rear w/ARB, DAna 30 FRont W/ Gearless LOcker ,3.5 in RE lift
Nationl rear leafs, MJ shackles, custom rock rails, custom skid plates,
trashed bumpers, roof basket, 92 radiator conversion,31x10.5 BFG AT's KO's,
KC's, yada, yada, yada.





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5565 From: Larry Maggio <lmaggio@p...>
Date: Wed Feb 9, 2000 4:33pm
Subject: Re: Coil Spring Compressors on sale at Harbor Freight


Rats....I just paid $9.99! Thats $2 that could have went to my SYE.



----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Fell <kevinwilliamfell@c...>
To: <az_vjc@eGroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 4:36 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Coil Spring Compressors on sale at Harbor Freight


> (I don't think this went through the first time)
>
> Hi all:
> Just wanted to let you know that Harbor Freight is offering a set of
> coil spring compressors for $7.97 ea. for those of you planning on
> doing your own lift and have coil springs.
> Have a great day!
> KevinF
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Join eLerts to Save!
> Sign up for one or two today!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/1232/4/_/1966/_/950139397/
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>
>
>


5566 From: <IlTODll@a...>
Date: Wed Feb 9, 2000 11:53am
Subject: Re: closed due to "dust"


I conned someone into taking the last 2 hours of my shift on friday, so I'm
going to pack some old clothes in my car and drive straight from work to the
cleanup at 2:30. I hope to see others from AZVJC there, but even if I don't
I still want to do my part. I'm only 18 and I've got too many years ahead of
me to let the government stop me from offroading.
Brian


5567 From: D&L <doug-louisa@h...>
Date: Wed Feb 9, 2000 5:51pm
Subject: Re: Rear adjustable Track Bar


yes - I feel that I am getting some additional rear articulation - seemed to
ride more level, and I got a bit more flex out of it...but not really
dramatically so. I think the main benefit is unloading the stock bar -
taking stress off the brackets, and allowing you to really dial in the rear
axle (in terms of position). I'm glad I got it.

Doug

----- Original Message -----
From: Stanley Fetherman <SFetherman@w...>
To: DougB <doug-louisa@h...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rear adjustable Track Bar


> Just wondering how the rear adjustable track bar did in Havasue this past
> weekend, any noticable difference in articulation ? I know two guys have
put
> them on, any report on satisfaction?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "DougB" <doug-louisa@h...>
> To: "Stanley Fetherman" <SFetherman@w...>
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 7:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rear adjustable Track Bar
>
>
> > I've also heard of the frame bracket breaking. With a stock bar and a CV
> > driveshaft w/ the pinion/axle rotated, there's a lot of stress back
there.
> I
> > was happy to loose the stock bar. The Tera bar eliminates all stress
from
> an
> > axle rotation, since it pivots at the connection of the bar and the
> control
> > arm end of the track bar.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Stanley Fetherman <SFetherman@w...>
> > To: DougB <doug-louisa@h...>
> > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 7:20 PM
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rear adjustable Track Bar
> >
> >
> > > Doug, one of the guys in the Rough Riders has replaced the Tera
bracket
> > > twice, finally went to the rancho hduty bracket. It seems it breaks
at
> > the
> > > top hole from twisting, no adjustable track bar.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "DougB" <doug-louisa@h...>
> > > To: "Stanley Fetherman" <SFetherman@w...>
> > > Cc: "Jeep AzVJC" <az_vjc@egroups.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 6:14 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rear adjustable Track Bar
> > >
> > >
> > > > Yes...the retention of the track bar relocation bracket is very
> > deliberate
> > > > and beneficial. Without the bracket, the rear track bar would be at
a
> > > > greater angle...which means that as your suspension cycles, you
would
> > get
> > > > excessive side to side movement of the axle in relation to the
> > frame/body.
> > > > The flatter the angle, the less side to side movement you'd
> get...which
> > is
> > > > why their bar retains the bracket.
> > > >
> > > > An added benefit to retaining the bracket is that you don't have to
> take
> > > the
> > > > f*****g thing off. I don't know about you, but I recall mine as
being
> a
> > > > PITA to install, so I was happy to leave it alone.
> > > >
> > > > Doug
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Stanley Fetherman <SFetherman@w...>
> > > > To: DougB <doug-louisa@h...>; Dave A.
<sasakikojiro@e...>
> > > > Cc: Jeep AzVJC <az_vjc@egroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 5:22 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rear adjustable Track Bar
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Can you speculate why tera did not engineer a track bar to
> eliminate
> > > the
> > > > > use of the bracket, seems like a bend in the adjustable track bar
> > would
> > > > > solve probelm with one piece? ---- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "DougB" <doug-louisa@h...>
> > > > > To: "Dave A." <sasakikojiro@e...>
> > > > > Cc: "Jeep AzVJC" <az_vjc@egroups.com>
> > > > > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 4:43 AM
> > > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rear adjustable Track Bar
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, the only two I found were Tera and Rusty's. Rusty uses
1"DOM
> > > > > (hollow),
> > > > > > and is adjustable, via a collar...just like the drag link
> > uses...where
> > > > you
> > > > > > loosen 2 bolts and turn the threaded collar. Tera is a solid
bar,
> > with
> > > a
> > > > > > threaded end, onto which they've put a control arm end. Both
> > bushings
> > > on
> > > > > the
> > > > > > Tera(on either end of the arm), and the flex joint are
greasable.
> > Both
> > > > > > Rusty's and Tera are priced similarly.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tera recommends keeping the track bar relocation bracket, so as
to
> > > > > maintain
> > > > > > an acceptable angle on the track bar. A steeper angle (sans
> bracket)
> > > > would
> > > > > > give you too much side to side axle movement, as the suspension
> > > cycles.
> > > > On
> > > > > > Rusty's, the bracket is not retained.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Between the 2, the Tera is stronger, IMO (solid bar w/ control
arm
> > end
> > > > vs.
> > > > > > hollow tube w/ drag link type collar).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I took out the Jeep yesterday, but noticed no significant
> difference
> > > in
> > > > > rear
> > > > > > articulation. Parker will be the test though. The main benefit
is
> > > > getting
> > > > > > rid of all that stress back there (from the raised
pinion/rotated
> > > axle),
> > > > > and
> > > > > > being now able to clear the Tomkin. Also, now my axle is
perfectly
> > > > > centered.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Doug
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Dave A. <sasakikojiro@e...>
> > > > > > To: DougB <doug-louisa@h...>
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 11:08 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Rear adjustable Track Bar
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please let mek now what you think of their track bar.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I still have the RE track-bar relocation bracket on mine, and
it
> > > would
> > > > > be
> > > > > > nice
> > > > > > > to have a non 'patch-fix' item back there too..
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > how much does it cost? As far as I know, only Rusty's
Off-Road
> > > offers
> > > > a
> > > > > > similar
> > > > > > > item, I think.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -Dave
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime?
> > > > > > You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it! Sign
> > > > > > up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation!
> > > > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/332/4/_/1966/_/949319009/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -- Create a poll/survey for your group!
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>


5568 From: <dirtdog@u...>
Date: Wed Feb 9, 2000 7:32pm
Subject: Trip Report "February Wildcat Weekend in Parker"


Trip Report "February Wildcat Weekend in Parker"

First off I wish to thank Al Dickson for lining up the camp
ground and finding the trip leaders for the weekend. The
Parker Club members showed us a great time and I know we all
appreciated their help. Our trip leaders did a good job
spotting us through the technical areas.

The turn out for the Wildcat party was great. We had
approximately 30 vehicles show up from 5 different clubs
(TRR’s ,AS 4x4, AzVJC, Parker 4x4, and the High country
Crawlers). The group campground that Al reserved for us at
The LaPaz country Park was great. There was plenty of room
for RVs, trailers and a nice big grass lawn to set up tents.
The lawn area was also good to sit around Nelson portable
fire pit at night and tell stories.
We had enough vehicles to split up into 3 groups on each
day. Two per day did rough runs and the other group did the
milder trails.
Saturdays menu included President Choice and about 20
vehicles (mostly TRR’s& AZVJC’s) did that trail, I
understand that they got back about 6 pm with a few
casualties along the way, another group went off to the
California side of the river to do the Snake bite and three
Canyons trip, we ended up back at camp around 4 pm I think.
We had our share of broken parts, bumps, dents, scratches,
and flats but also had allot of fun on the trail. We even
got to do the pyrotechnic tire inflation trick a couple
times. The mild group ended up doing two trials on Saturday
Dynamite Canyon and the Parker 4x4 clubs adopt a trail and I
understand they really enjoyed their day also.
Sunday we all split up again. The AS4x4 crowd wanted to get
a shot at Presidents Choice and head out about 9:30, we had
a fun on the optional loop at the beginning of the trail and
then went over to the main attraction where we had a great
time and even got Brent in his FS Blazer though all but the
first and last obstacles of the main trail. The other rough
group went to run the Deliverance trail; they only got to do
about half the trail before it was time to get ready for the
trip home. I’m sure we will get another attempt at it at
next years Desert Splash. The third group ran the Canal
trail then head to the Desert Bar for refreshments.
All in All is was a great weekend we had perfect weather,
good runs for all tastes and everyone seemed happy, even
though it seem nobody left town with out some type of trail
damage but I did not hear any complaints so maybe we will
have to do this again some time.

My thanks to all who help pull off this seat of the pants
event and to all who showed up for the fun. I hope no one
was disappointed.

I will try and get a hold of some pictures from the trails I
did for your viewing pleasure.


Bernie
aka Dirt Dog


5569 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Mon Feb 7, 2000 6:39am
Subject: Re: Raw Deal Pics


Does anyone have a Garmin track log they can send me for the Raw Deal trail?

TIA.....Stu

Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm

http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.west/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer

-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Eller [mailto:four_by_nut@n...]
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 6:53 AM
Cc: az_vjc@egroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Raw Deal Pics


I have posted some pictures I took of Raw Deal at:

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=189155&a=1755675

We had a great time and no casualties can be reported. Probably won't be
able to say the same after having run Terminator in two weeks!!!!!!!
--
-Jay-Bird (http://www.goodnet.com/~eller)
----------------------------------------------------------
83 CJ7
Part Chevy / Part Jeep >>>>> CHEEP!!
(Not to be confused with how it looks...)



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5570 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Mon Feb 7, 2000 6:50am
Subject: Re: Photos of Parker 2-00


Doug,

Nice Parker pictures. Thanks for putting them up for all to enjoy!

Stu

Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm

http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.west/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer

-----Original Message-----
From: doug-louisa@h... [mailto:doug-louisa@h...]
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 7:19 AM
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Photos of Parker 2-00


Greetings!

DougB has an album of photos for you to
see using the FREE PhotoPoint photo sharing service.

Here is a message describing the photos:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Parker 2-00

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Simply click on the link below to go directly to their photo album
area on the PhotoPoint web site, where you can see all the photos
that they have prepared for you.

Photo Album:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=236291&a=1755928

AOL Users:
<a
href="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=236291&a=1755928">Click
Here</a>

Click on the link above to see the photos. If neither of the links
are clickable, simply cut and paste the first link into your web browser.

If you would like to know how to share your own photos using the
free PhotoPoint service, click on this link:

http://www.photopoint.com/

The PhotoPoint server is a free service courtesy of Pantellic
Software. We hope you find it useful!

-PhotoPoint Automated Attendant


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5571 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Mon Feb 7, 2000 6:55am
Subject: Re: Photos of Parker 2-00


I loved the "launch pad" series of photos. Did anyone make it over this
obstacle without a winch or two strap?

Stu

Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm

http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.west/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer

-----Original Message-----
From: doug-louisa@h... [mailto:doug-louisa@h...]
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 7:19 AM
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Photos of Parker 2-00


Greetings!

DougB has an album of photos for you to
see using the FREE PhotoPoint photo sharing service.

Here is a message describing the photos:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Parker 2-00

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Simply click on the link below to go directly to their photo album
area on the PhotoPoint web site, where you can see all the photos
that they have prepared for you.

Photo Album:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=236291&a=1755928

AOL Users:
<a
href="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=236291&a=1755928">Click
Here</a>

Click on the link above to see the photos. If neither of the links
are clickable, simply cut and paste the first link into your web browser.

If you would like to know how to share your own photos using the
free PhotoPoint service, click on this link:

http://www.photopoint.com/

The PhotoPoint server is a free service courtesy of Pantellic
Software. We hope you find it useful!

-PhotoPoint Automated Attendant


------------------------------------------------------------------------
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5572 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Mon Feb 7, 2000 5:22pm
Subject: Re: Terminator Run


I agree. I walked it a couple of weeks ago. As I told another person, it had more dino oil marking the way in/out than any other trail I have seen. The comments given to me by a good friend (he has been off-roading for 18 years here in AZ) is that this trail sees a _LOT_ of drivetrain damage....and sheet metal too. He has sat and watched people do serious damage, one after the next.

Stu

Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm

http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.west/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Naylor [mailto:tim.naylor@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 5:02 PM
To: Lon; az_vjc@eGroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Terminator Run


I have never run the Terminator trail, but I have been there and walked it. I think you are asking for big trouble taking the rig you described in to Terminator. It looks like a trail requiring big tires and maximum clearance. That's just my opinion, maybe someone that has run it can confirm this or not. I think it should have a solid 4 rating.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lon [mailto:robinson@lankaster.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2000 9:05 PM
To: Todd Ahern; az_vjc@eGroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Terminator Run


Kathy and I are interested, the TJ is 2"lifted, disco's, LSD rear, and stock 30x9.50. Any problems there? How is the possibility of a little bit later starting time (we live in Cordes Junction) and meeting at 7:00 makes us get up awfully early for a Saturday.

Lon and Kathy
Red 98TJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Todd Ahern
To: az_vjc@eGroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2000 11:07 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Terminator Run


Planning a run on Terminator. Feb 19th. POC is Todd Ahern, or Gregg
Clark. As of this time we are planning to meet at the McDonalds on Dear
vally road. at 0700 and leave at 0730. Trail is rated a (3+, 4)




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5573 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Mon Feb 7, 2000 7:00pm
Subject: Re: Terminator Run


Thanks Larry. You and me both....I'm not taking my 10 month old on that trail either.

Joe, at 4Wheeler's Supply, did my gears. To make a long story short, he came highly recommended by a retired tranny mechanic (who I have the highest respect for). The retired mechanic said that Joe was the only guy in Phoenix who he would ever let touch his drive train. I figured if it was good enough for him, it was certainly good enough for me! I wish I could have been the "tool boy" for him during the installation of my locker.

Stu

Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm

http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.west/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer


-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Maggio [mailto:lmaggio@primenet.com]
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 7:41 PM
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Terminator Run


Thats a quarter mile that I wont be taking my 3 month old TJ on :)


By the way Stu, the new tires on your Jeep look good. Who did the gear work?

Regards,
Larry




----- Original Message -----
From: Stu Olson
To: Larry Maggio ; az_vjc@egroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 7:11 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Terminator Run


Larry,

The trail is about a quarter mile or so long if memory serves me.....someone correct me if I am confusing it with another one.

Stu

Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm

http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.west/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer


-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Maggio [mailto:lmaggio@primenet.com]
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 6:41 PM
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Terminator Run


Id like to ride along if someone has an open passenger seat.

Cheers,
Larry

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Naylor
To: Lon ; az_vjc@egroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 5:01 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Terminator Run


I have never run the Terminator trail, but I have been there and walked it. I think you are asking for big trouble taking the rig you described in to Terminator. It looks like a trail requiring big tires and maximum clearance. That's just my opinion, maybe someone that has run it can confirm this or not. I think it should have a solid 4 rating.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lon [mailto:robinson@lankaster.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2000 9:05 PM
To: Todd Ahern; az_vjc@eGroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Terminator Run


Kathy and I are interested, the TJ is 2"lifted, disco's, LSD rear, and stock 30x9.50. Any problems there? How is the possibility of a little bit later starting time (we live in Cordes Junction) and meeting at 7:00 makes us get up awfully early for a Saturday.

Lon and Kathy
Red 98TJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Todd Ahern
To: az_vjc@eGroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2000 11:07 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Terminator Run


Planning a run on Terminator. Feb 19th. POC is Todd Ahern, or Gregg
Clark. As of this time we are planning to meet at the McDonalds on Dear
vally road. at 0700 and leave at 0730. Trail is rated a (3+, 4)




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5574 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Mon Feb 7, 2000 6:11pm
Subject: Re: Terminator Run


Larry,

The trail is about a quarter mile or so long if memory serves me.....someone correct me if I am confusing it with another one.

Stu

Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm

http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.west/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer


-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Maggio [mailto:lmaggio@primenet.com]
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 6:41 PM
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Terminator Run


Id like to ride along if someone has an open passenger seat.

Cheers,
Larry

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Naylor
To: Lon ; az_vjc@egroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 5:01 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Terminator Run


I have never run the Terminator trail, but I have been there and walked it. I think you are asking for big trouble taking the rig you described in to Terminator. It looks like a trail requiring big tires and maximum clearance. That's just my opinion, maybe someone that has run it can confirm this or not. I think it should have a solid 4 rating.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lon [mailto:robinson@lankaster.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2000 9:05 PM
To: Todd Ahern; az_vjc@eGroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Terminator Run


Kathy and I are interested, the TJ is 2"lifted, disco's, LSD rear, and stock 30x9.50. Any problems there? How is the possibility of a little bit later starting time (we live in Cordes Junction) and meeting at 7:00 makes us get up awfully early for a Saturday.

Lon and Kathy
Red 98TJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Todd Ahern
To: az_vjc@eGroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2000 11:07 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Terminator Run


Planning a run on Terminator. Feb 19th. POC is Todd Ahern, or Gregg
Clark. As of this time we are planning to meet at the McDonalds on Dear
vally road. at 0700 and leave at 0730. Trail is rated a (3+, 4)




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5575 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Wed Feb 9, 2000 6:04pm
Subject: just a test


test

Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm

http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.west/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer


5576 From: Aaron <UF_RULZ@y...>
Date: Mon Feb 7, 2000 8:47pm
Subject: Some photo's of Table Mesa Camping trip


Hey all,

Here are some pictures of our trip over the weekend. Chip, I got your bridge pics in here too. Hope you all like, I might snap some more later.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=237532&a=1765091

Later,

Aaron


5577 From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
Date: Tue Feb 8, 2000 6:10pm
Subject: Red Creek Environmental Assessment Letter


To everyone in the AZ_VJC,

This is the text of the letter I mailed out last Saturday to the ranger
district office concerning the Red Creek closure. Please take the time and
send a letter to Mr. Lopez. I hope you are all aware of how many GOOD
trails are being closed right in our own back yard! A 110 year old
stagecoach trail (has been a Jeep trail for ever) was recently closed in
the Tonto National Forest. This trail is awesome to drive (great scenery)
and has masonry stone work from the original builders still holding the
sides of the trail intact going up the switch backs to the top of the rim.
YOUR FOREST DEPARTMENT CLOSED IT AND PUT A STEEL BARRICADE ACROSS THE
ENTRANCE TO IT!

Folks....they are taking our trails away every day. Do something about it
or your kids won't even know what to do with an off-road vehicle by the time
they can drive!

Sorry if I sound like I am on a soap box (and I probably am), but we all
have to wake up and smell the roses.....it is all going away unless we start
telling them what we think about their plans.

Thanks for reading......Stu

p.s. Another way to view it is simple economics. Why did you spend all
that money on your vehicle mods when you won't be able to run the new
locker, tires, and lower gearing on a trail?

The text of my letter follows:


February 5, 2000

Tonto National Forest
Cave Creek Ranger District
Attention Delvin Lopez
40202 N. Cave Creek Rd.
Scottsdale, AZ 85262

Dear Mr. Lopez,

I am writing you this letter upon receiving word that the Environment
Assessment (EA) for Red Creek was recently released. I hope to obtain a
copy of it so that I may review it in detail. I would appreciate it if you
would forward a copy to my address (see below). Until I have a copy in
hand, you will have to be content with my current level of understanding as
it pertains to Red Creek. I will not miss the opportunity to comment on Red
Creek because I am not in possession of the EA report.

I am writing you to ask that you keep the Red Creek Jeep trail (FR18) open
for 4WD travel.

I have just recently been able to visit the more remote and beautiful parts
of our state, after having saved enough money to purchase a capable 4WD
vehicle. Before that, I was forced to travel the same trails and roads that
the vast majority of off-highway travelers usually see.

I visited the Red Creek area just this past December and was able to share
the experience with a good friend. Do you realize that the bulk of most
off-road drivers never go down Red Creek. One requires a well-equipped
vehicle and there are some obstacles early in the creek trail that cause
many folks to turn back. Those that continue are more like myself, happy to
enjoy the beautiful countryside and responsible for our actions. At times,
while driving the trail, I was challenged see just where the trail was.
Certainly this can not be considered a trail that is having a high impact on
the surrounding habitat. If I have a problem seeing tire tracks from those
who have gone before me, how hard is this on the creek?

I've been told that the EA addresses both cattle grazing and vehicle travel.
I am by no means versed on the impact of cattle grazing in this area,
although I was born and raised on a small ranch in Minnesota and am quite
familiar with running cattle in that area. It seems that the mixing of
cattle and vehicles when trying to determine the final status of Red Creek
has about as much in common as oranges and car tires…..they are both round.
After that, the similarity quickly ends. Do not stop vehicle traffic
because of a cow!

Two weeks ago, my wife and myself, along with another couple in their Jeep,
spent a day exploring an old Jeep trail in the Southern Bradshaw mountains.
The entire trip, which was 40 miles in length, was driven at an average
speed of 3.9 MPH (that does not include any time spent stopping for lunch,
site seeing, etc.). I think you can see that "running around the country
side" at a whopping 3.9 MPH is not the kind of recreation that endangers our
land. Having driven Red Creek down to the Verde River, I can attest that
you can not maintain 3.9 MPH.

In summary, I want to state that the closing of the Red Creek Jeep trail is
not the answer. People speed on the highways every day. Thank God the DPS
had the sense to not close our highways because of a thoughtless few.
Closing Red Creek, or any other Jeep trail, is not the solution to someone's
alleged environmental problem. Please send me the data (is this in the EA?)
that supports the conclusion that vehicle traffic is causing a negative
impact on Red Creek.

I await the requested paperwork and welcome any further discussion you might
have on my comments or the Red Creek issue.

Sincerely,



Stuart L. Olson
6625 W. Coolidge St.
Phoenix, Arizona 85033


http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.west/~solson8


5578 From: Aaron Gale <UF_RULZ@y...>
Date: Wed Feb 9, 2000 8:41am
Subject: Table Mesa Camping Trip Pics.....


Hey guys,

Here are some pics that I got off the camcorder tape, I hope I can do some more later.
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=237532&a=1765091

Enjoy

Aaron


5579 From: Larry Maggio <lmaggio@p...>
Date: Wed Feb 9, 2000 7:55pm
Subject: Topo maps online


This place has every USGS topo available online (FREE) and in multiple
scales in small, medium and large formats. It has a problem printing with
Internet Explorer unfortunately. Probably a slow loader for anything under
56k.

www.topozone.com


Cheers,
LarryM


5580 From: William Mish <yldkat55@h...>
Date: Wed Feb 9, 2000 8:03pm
Subject: Re: Photos of Parker 2-00


Yep. Everyone in our group Doug B. Linda Luik and me. Oh yeah, Ross didn't make it, he broke prior to getting there ;} I'm SURE I'll hear about this!
WILDCAT
1955 WILLYS CJ3B
Custom Everything
http://drive.to/yldkat55

----- Original Message -----
From: Stu Olson
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 7:55 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Photos of Parker 2-00


I loved the "launch pad" series of photos. Did anyone make it over this
obstacle without a winch or two strap?

Stu

Stu Olson N7QJP
Phoenix, AZ DM33vm

http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
http://home.off-road.com/~stu
http://www.users.uswest.west/~solson8
Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer

-----Original Message-----
From: doug-louisa@home.com [mailto:doug-louisa@home.com]
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 7:19 AM
To: az_vjc@egroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Photos of Parker 2-00


Greetings!

DougB has an album of photos for you to
see using the FREE PhotoPoint photo sharing service.

Here is a message describing the photos:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Parker 2-00

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Simply click on the link below to go directly to their photo album
area on the PhotoPoint web site, where you can see all the photos
that they have prepared for you.

Photo Album:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=236291&a=1755928

AOL Users:
Click
Here

Click on the link above to see the photos. If neither of the links
are clickable, simply cut and paste the first link into your web browser.

If you would like to know how to share your own photos using the
free PhotoPoint service, click on this link:

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The PhotoPoint server is a free service courtesy of Pantellic
Software. We hope you find it useful!

-PhotoPoint Automated Attendant


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5581 From: Len Sullivan <kermit@c...>
Date: Wed Feb 9, 2000 11:51am
Subject: Jeep mania gone to far


Hello all

I need a couple of recommendations from the group.....

First: Does anyone know a preacher or justice of the peace who is a jeeper?

Second: (Have you guessed yet?) Does anyone know of a good place besides
the Coves to get married in the back of a Jeep and camp for a honeymoon with
a couple of hundred of your closest friends?

Pam and I would prefer someplace on a mountain, but a large ridge or hill
would do......someplace scenic, perhaps class 2 or 3 on the way in, with
room for a party and campout afterward. Of course, all of you are invited.
:-)

Len & Pam
'78 J-10 (for now)


5582 From: Jon Loveless <jloveless@e...>
Date: Wed Feb 9, 2000 8:23pm
Subject: Re: Jeep mania gone to far


Well, I don't actually "know" him, but one of the churches in Fountain Hills has a preacher that recently sold hi Suzuki Samurai and bought a TJ. It looks stock and it is parked at the church each day. I will try to find out more if you wish.

I would say Broken Arrow in Sedona as a beautiful, supposedly 'spiritual', and fun trail to get hitched. Way to go, Len. Tricia and I got married on the beach in Grand Cayman on April 1.

Jon

At 12:51 PM 2/9/2000 -0700, you wrote:

Hello all

I need a couple of recommendations from the group.....

First: Does anyone know a preacher or justice of the peace who is a jeeper?

Second: (Have you guessed yet?) Does anyone know of a good place besides
the Coves to get married in the back of a Jeep and camp for a honeymoon with
a couple of hundred of your closest friends?

Pam and I would prefer someplace on a mountain, but a large ridge or hill
would do......someplace scenic, perhaps class 2 or 3 on the way in, with
room for a party and campout afterward. Of course, all of you are invited.
:-)

Len & Pam
'78 J-10 (for now)




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480-816-6240
jloveless@earthlink.net
----------------------------

5583 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Wed Feb 9, 2000 8:50pm
Subject: Re: Photos of Parker 2-00


Everyone made it over on our trip (Sat. run of Presidents Choice)... but one
of the Parker guys tried a tougher alternate route, and got about half way
up and had to be winched. Going up the launch pad really is a matter of
faith. You loose sight of your spotter about half way up, and all you see is
the sky the rest of the way. Near the top is a rise in the rock which takes
you even more vertical. At this point, it's important to keep a steady
foot...cause a little too much gas w/ a locked rearend could turn you
turtle. At the very top is a large boulder, so you have to turn right as you
crest the top. You have to rely on the verbal cues of the spotter as to when
to turn, cause your still looking at the clouds. A total rush!

Doug

----- Original Message -----
From: Stu Olson <solson8@u...>
To: <az_vjc@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 7:55 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Photos of Parker 2-00


> I loved the "launch pad" series of photos. Did anyone make it over this
> obstacle without a winch or two strap?
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson N7QJP
> Phoenix, AZ DM33vm
>
> http://www.qsl.net/n7qjp/
> http://home.off-road.com/~stu
> http://www.users.uswest.west/~solson8
> Developer of VKE Digital Voice Keyer
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: doug-louisa@h... [mailto:doug-louisa@h...]
> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 7:19 AM
> To: az_vjc@egroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Photos of Parker 2-00
>
>
> Greetings!
>
> DougB has an album of photos for you to
> see using the FREE PhotoPoint photo sharing service.
>
> Here is a message describing the photos:
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Parker 2-00
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Simply click on the link below to go directly to their photo album
> area on the PhotoPoint web site, where you can see all the photos
> that they have prepared for you.
>
> Photo Album:
> http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=236291&a=1755928
>
> AOL Users:
> <a
> href="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=236291&a=1755928">Click
> Here</a>
>
> Click on the link above to see the photos. If neither of the links
> are clickable, simply cut and paste the first link into your web browser.
>
> If you would like to know how to share your own photos using the
> free PhotoPoint service, click on this link:
>
> http://www.photopoint.com/
>
> The PhotoPoint server is a free service courtesy of Pantellic
> Software. We hope you find it useful!
>
> -PhotoPoint Automated Attendant
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Unique Valentine gifts, available now at eGroups.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/1154/4/_/1966/_/949933165/
>
> -- Create a poll/survey for your group!
> -- http://www.egroups.com/vote?listname=az_vjc&m=1
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Getting a Great Deal delivered right to your email in-box!
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>


5584 From: DougB <azjeep@h...>
Date: Wed Feb 9, 2000 8:58pm
Subject: Re: Jeep mania gone to far


A really great place would be Edwards Park...up the ridge line north of Four
Peaks. It's a natural mountain pasture area, and the trail to it is a class
2 so stock vehicles Jeeps and 4x4 trucks could make it. Lots of room and
fantastic views. Not too many people go there...it's a one way trip and
takes a little bit of time.

Doug

----- Original Message -----
From: Len Sullivan <kermit@c...>
To: AZVJC <az_vjc@m...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 12:51 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Jeep mania gone to far


> Hello all
>
> I need a couple of recommendations from the group.....
>
> First: Does anyone know a preacher or justice of the peace who is a
jeeper?
>
> Second: (Have you guessed yet?) Does anyone know of a good place besides
> the Coves to get married in the back of a Jeep and camp for a honeymoon
with
> a couple of hundred of your closest friends?
>
> Pam and I would prefer someplace on a mountain, but a large ridge or hill
> would do......someplace scenic, perhaps class 2 or 3 on the way in, with
> room for a party and campout afterward. Of course, all of you are
invited.
> :-)
>
> Len & Pam
> '78 J-10 (for now)
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> What's better than getting a Great Deal?
> Getting a Great Deal delivered right to your email in-box!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/1239/4/_/1966/_/950155807/
>
> -- Check out your group's private Chat room
> -- http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=az_vjc&m=1
>
>


5585 From: Larry Maggio <lmaggio@p...>
Date: Wed Feb 9, 2000 10:28pm
Subject: Re: Anyone up for running Broken Arrow ... Saturday Feb 26th?


I keep hearing how some people are having bad experiences with the "Pink
Jeep tours" while running Broken Arrow.

Do they have anymore right to be on this trail than any other Jeep owner?
Are permits needed? Any other feedback on Pink Jeep negative encounters?

It looks like there is 6 or more people interested in running this trail...
number could grow as the date gets closer. Anyone want to lead this one?
I've never been on it.

Thanks,
Larry


5586 From: Scott Stace <scottaz@a...>
Date: Wed Feb 9, 2000 10:40pm
Subject: Re: Anyone up for running Broken Arrow ... Saturday Feb 26th?


I have run the Broken Arrow trail with my Jeep a couple of times. My
experience is that the company (pink Jeep tours) is more than friendly to
other Jeepers who want to run the trail. Those of us in Tucson had a
wonderful time when we ran it a several months ago.


----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Maggio <lmaggio@p...>
To: <az_vjc@eGroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 11:28 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Anyone up for running Broken Arrow ... Saturday Feb
26th?


> I keep hearing how some people are having bad experiences with the "Pink
> Jeep tours" while running Broken Arrow.
>
> Do they have anymore right to be on this trail than any other Jeep owner?
> Are permits needed? Any other feedback on Pink Jeep negative encounters?
>
> It looks like there is 6 or more people interested in running this
trail...
> number could grow as the date gets closer. Anyone want to lead this one?
> I've never been on it.
>
> Thanks,
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> eGroups' Valentine's Day Gift Guide - Shop Here Now:
> http://click.egroups.com/1/1156/4/_/1966/_/950163570/
>
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> -- http://www.egroups.com/vote?listname=az_vjc&m=1
>
>
>


5587 From: De Slug <mschwitz@U...>
Date: Wed Feb 9, 2000 10:58pm
Subject: Re: !!!***ANACONDA***!!! Lets try it!


33 inchers? so what. I have 33 inch tires. Its all DRIVER... What can't
be easily done can be figured out... Besides that's why WARN makes so
much money, right? :) Just messing with ya. I'll be out there to do the
terminator run. BTW... what are the logistics for the terminator run?
Times, days, etc? Thanks. See ya'll there!! MIKE


5588 From: <ZJDreams@a...>
Date: Wed Feb 9, 2000 6:40pm
Subject: Re: Anyone up for running Broken Arrow ... Saturday Feb 26th?


I've run Broken Arrow 4 or 5 times and my experience is that the pink jeep
tours guys are @$$holes. I think I've run into one cool guy while out
there...the rest of them think they own the place...they drive way too fast
and for the most part are not nearly as courteous as other jeepers I
meet...and I always go out of my way to be polite. I'd love to see what they
think about a group of non pink jeeps out there =) I'd also like some info
on the state lands pass...probably something i should pick up.
Jeff Gully