blooddrive
01-02-2004, 06:59 PM
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5264 From: Larry Maggio <lmaggio@p...>
Date: Wed Jan 26, 2000 4:46pm
Subject: Re: new to group
Welcome Scott, are you the same Scott Peterson who has the CJ style dash in
a Wrangler?
LarryM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
5265 From: B H <boh105@e...>
Date: Wed Jan 26, 2000 5:28pm
Subject: Re: Parker Update
Hi Guys,
It looks as if the Flagstaff contigant will consist of me 88 XJ, Todd
hoffman 88 XJ, and possibly our club treausrer in thier CJ7, and our club
President in his cut up chevy PU,
Can I get particulars on the whens and wheres and hows so I can pass them on
to the local club members who want to attend.
PS no arb yet...IM starting to get nervous!
Brian Harmon
88 XJ, Dana44 rear, DAna 30 FRont,3.5 in RE lift
Nationl rear leafs, MJ shackles, custom rock rails, custom skid plates,
trashed bumpers, roof basket, 92 radiator conversion,31x10.5 BFG AT's KO's,
KC's, yada, yada, yada.
__________________________________________________ _____
Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
Visit http://freeworld.excite.com
5266 From: DougB <doug-louisa@h...>
Date: Wed Jan 26, 2000 7:14pm
Subject: Parker
Thanks Al, for reserving the camping area for us. Sounds like it will work out well.
Not sure how many from Phoenix are going (from AzVJC), but several of us are planning on hooking up on the west side of town on Friday (2/4/00). The plan is to meet on the north side of I-10 at the 51st Av. exit at the Jack in the Box, at 12noon.
Those planning on making this caravan shoot out a note if you could, so we can keep an eye out for you. We'll be on channel 4.
Looking forward to Parker. Should be a blast.
Doug
5267 From: Andrew F. Mason <afmason@h...>
Date: Wed Jan 26, 2000 2:43pm
Subject: Pictures from Trail 42 run
Here are some pictures from the trail 42 run a couple of weeks ago. Sorry it took so long to get these posted.
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=191032&a=1639211
Andy & Tina Mason
Black 99TJ
5268 From: Andrew F. Mason <afmason@h...>
Date: Wed Jan 26, 2000 2:46pm
Subject: Box/Martinez Canyon Pictures
Here are some pictures from a trip we took to Box/Martinez Canyons last
week. Two members from the AZVJC went as well as a Ford Ranger and a Dodge
Durango. Enjoy.
(Check out the last picture in the series, my wife got a perfect picture of
our jeep getting a little air on a very steep hill)
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=191032&a=1639130
Andy & Tina Mason
Black 99TJ
5269 From: O'Boyle, David <David.OBoyle@b...>
Date: Wed Jan 26, 2000 11:00pm
Subject: MDA 2000 event 02/04/00 ACTION PLAN
MDA 2000 event
We will leave a 10:00 AM 02/04/2000 at the Pilot truck stop. Exit 138 on
I-10
and 59ave. I plan to get there about 9:30, in order to get fuel and ice.
It
about 300 miles to Ocotillo Wells, so we should arrive about the time the
registration desk opens. We will make camp and get ready for the Sunset
Poker
Run at 6:30pm.
We will be using CB channel 32, and if you have a GPS, the following
attachment
is the route.
Attachment: (application/msexcel) Phoenix to Ocotillo Wells.xls [not stored]
5270 From: Linda Luik <p14175@e...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 7:22am
Subject: TR - Battle Axe/Gila River Trip
I am planning an exploratory trip in the Battle Axe Rd - Gila River area on
1/29 or 1/30. This will probably be a long day and I have no idea what we are
going to see. A friend of mine with a HUMM (the ER fell off) is interested in
checking out this area. Most likely we will make it out to the coke ovens.
Let me know if you are interested in coming along.
Linda
Attachment: vcard [not shown]
5271 From: Linda Luik <p14175@e...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 7:25am
Subject: [Fwd: Article--USFS Road Plan]
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:06:54 MST
From: Terry Heslin theslin@p...
Subject: Article--USFS Road Plan
To: Blind *Copy theslin@p...
Apparently-To: "Linda_Luik-P14175@email" p14175@msgphx8
Outdoor Enthusiasts:
The second part of the "roadless" initiative is the plan on how the existing roads on National Forests will be managed. The article below indicates that the initial study of the FS road system is nearing completion. The comment period for the "roadless" initiative should have been conducted concurrently with the publication of the road study and plan.
Access advocates will be keenly interested in the definitions and recommendations of the document--especially important are the new terms "classified" and unclassified" roads. Stay tuned, the article is below:
http://www.sltrib.com/2000/jan/01262000/nation_w/20720.htm
Forest Service Readies Plan for Managing Roads
Wednesday, January
26, 2000
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
SAN FRANCISCO -- U.S. Forest Service chief Michael Dombeck said Tuesday a
long-awaited study on managing 380,000 miles of national forest roads is nearing
completion, and suggested that scaling back the roadway network is one of the likely
options.
Dombeck told the Commonwealth Club that the report, which will be offered within
weeks for a round of public hearings, is the first step toward devising a nationwide plan to
manage the controversial road system.
"We'll sit down with county supervisors" and others to work out a plan, Dombeck
added.
Environmentalists believe the roads can contribute to environmental harm in the
nation's 192 million acres of national forests. Dombeck agreed, in part.
The question is, which roads should be eliminated? Some roads may be a "bulwark
against noxious weeds, invasive species," Dombeck said.
"The problem is that right now we have more roads than we can afford," he said,
noting that roads, especially those that are poorly maintained, can degrade fisheries and
wildlife habitats.
"We're losing access by our inability to maintain roads. About 1,000 miles of roads
annually fall into disrepair," said Dombeck.
But Chris Nance, a spokesman for the California Forestry Association, said Dombeck
and the Clinton administration have focused on roads to the exclusion of other elements that
affect forest health
Attachment: vcard [not shown]
5272 From: Linda Luik <p14175@e...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 7:27am
Subject: [Fwd: FWD: Las Cienegas National Conservation Area (NCA)]
FYI -- particularly for our Tucson and other southern AZ Virtual Jeep Club members.
Linda
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:31:26 MST
From: Terry Heslin theslin@p...
Subject: FWD: Las Cienegas National Conservation Area (NCA)
To: Blind *Copy theslin@p...
Apparently-To: "Linda_Luik-P14175@email" p14175@msgphx8
Outdoor Enthusiasts:
This article addresses southern Arizona specifically, but it concerns all of us who are interested in public and private lands, open space and environmental politics.
--------------------------------------
Date: 1/26/0 4:05 PM
From: Rachel Thomas
People, this is about what is happening in Southern Arizona. But look around, the same type of activities are probably going on somewhere in the area close to where you live. I added bold print for one statement. About Kolbe's legislative assistance not knowing an answer to a question. His statement was that we needed to ask Luther Propst, Sonoran Institute. L. Propst is also very involved in trying to get the growth control package passed in this state. BUT BLM AND A LEGISLATIVE ASSISTANT STATING THAT THE PEOPLE HAVE TO ASK PROPST ABOUT SOMETHING PERTAINING TO THE GOVERNMENT. SOMETHING ISN'T RIGHT HERE.
By Pat Koester
Tombstone Tumbleweed
www.theriver.com/tombstonenews(http://www.theriver.com/tombstonenews)
Cochise County property owners who attended a tour and briefing last Friday
of the proposed Las Cienegas National Conservation Area (NCA) were not
convinced that they were getting the straight scoop from representatives of
the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and Congressman Jim Kolbe's office.
Kolbe introduced legislation last September to create the 206,000-acre NCA,
which stretches from Tucson southward to Sonoita and Cochise County.
The big unanswered question of the day was this: how did private property in
Cochise County get included in the proposed area without the knowledge of
the property owners or county officials?
Cochise County Supervisor Les Thompson said he had heard about the proposed
NCA, which is located primarily in Pima and Santa Cruz Counties to the west;
but, he said, he had no idea it also included a portion of Cochise County
until he happened to look at a brochure about it in a BLM office.
Then, he said, he was told all property owners within the proposed
boundaries had been notified. But when he contacted some of the affected
property owners, he discovered they didn't know anything about it either.
According to Bill Brannen, who manages the Audubon Society's Research Ranch
in the extreme southern portion of the NCA, the idea for the NCA grew out of
the Sonoita Valley Planning Partnership, which was formed in 1995 to work on
public lands issues in the BLM's Empire-Cienega Resources Conservation Area
(RCA).
That area, which BLM purchased in 1988, is part of the proposed NCA.
Asked how part of Cochise County came to be included in the NCA, Jesse Juen,
BLM's Tucson area manager, said, "I don't know. Ask Kevin Messner [Kolbe's
legislative assistant]."
"I don't know either," said Messner, "You would probably have to ask Luther Propst at the Sonoran Institute [a conservation non-governmental
organization in Tucson] about that."
Unfortunately, Propst was out of town all week and could not be reached.
The proposed NCA, as outlined on a map dated Sept. 22, 1999, encompasses a
total of 322 square miles. It stretches approximately 35 miles, zigzagging
from Saguaro National Park (just east of Tucson) in the north to the
Coronado National Forest and Sonoita in the south. National forests also
form parts of the western and eastern boundaries.
Less than a quarter of the proposed NCA is currently federal land -
primarily the BLM's RCA. About half of the area is state land, and the rest
is privately owned.
About 20 square miles of that private property is in Cochise County. Some of
it is in the Mescal area along Interstate 10. Some lies between the
Whetstone Mountains and Fort Huachuca, including one private subdivision,
Mustang Heights. A narrow strip of state land separates the NCA from Fort
Huachuca.
The purpose of the NCA, according to a statement by Kolbe when he introduced
legislation to create the NCA last September, is to "conserve, protect, and
enhance various resources and values while allowing environmentally
responsible and sustainable livestock grazing and recreation" in the
watersheds of the Cienega Creek and Babocomari River - both of which Kolbe
calls "perennial streams."
Juen put it another way. He said the purpose was to prevent development and
stop Tucson from expanding into the area. "I never knew there could be such
a beautiful area so close to Tucson," said Juen. "It would be a shame to
lose it."
The NCA, Kolbe says, would also "provide corridors for animal movements that
are necessary for the long-term viability of important species."
Kevin Messner, Kolbe's legislative assistant, told Friday's group the
proposed NCA boundaries have changed since the September map, and are not
yet finalized. He said all private property owners within the proposed area
are being contacted to see whether or not they want to be included within
the boundaries.
According to Kolbe's bill, the Secretary of the Interior can acquire
"privately owned land or interests therein within the boundaries of the
conservation area by donation, exchange, or, only in the case of
conservation easements, by purchase."
By signing a conservation easement, Messner said, the property owner gives
up all development rights. (See page 11 for a guest editorial about such
easements.)
So far, Messner said, all the private property owners in Cochise County
except the owners of the Babocomari land grant - which covers about half of
the proposed county area - have said they do not want to be included in the NCA.
Kolbe's bill also authorizes the Secretary to acquire state land by any of
the above-mentioned means, or "by eminent domain, only with the consent of
the State of Arizona."
Although half of the proposed NCA - including most of the northern half - is
state land, Messner admitted the state does not support the creation of the
NCA. He said of all the state officials and representatives who have been
contacted, only one - District 8 Rep. Gail Griffin - has responded; and her
response was a letter of opposition.
Cochise County Administrator Jody Klein, at the direction of the Board of
Supervisors, has also written Kolbe a letter of opposition.
Klein questioned whether the presence of two NCAs sandwiched around Fort
Huachuca will negatively impact its ability to carry out its overall mission.
"The Fort is already subject to intense scrutiny, and increasing demands to
become involved in limiting private development off of the Fort Huachuca
Military Reservation through the NEPA process and Endangered Species Act
issues involving the San Pedro River," wrote Klein. "Will the inclusion of a
portion of the Babocomari eventually lead to inclusion of its entire length?
This could well have an impact on private development in the Greater Sierra
Vista area."
Asked why a NCA was necessary, since most of the affected land was already
either federally or state owned, Messner told Friday's group one reason was
to insure that future administrations could not prohibit ranching or
recreation, both of which are allowed under Kolbe's bill.
Messner also said that with a NCA designation, the President could not make
it a national monument, which would undoubtedly carry stricter provisions
than the proposed NCA. Clinton and Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt have
threatened to do just that.
Messner assured Friday's group that, according to Kolbe's bill, a NCA
designation "shall not diminish the rights of private landowners," and would
have no effect on property adjacent to the NCA.
But the group was not convinced.
Barb Buntin, whose property was included within the original NCA boundaries,
pointed to some of the nebulous wording in Kolbe's bill - such as
"sustainable grazing" and a management plan "based on" the Sonoita Valley
Planning Partnership's plan - which, she said, in effect gives the Secretary
of the Interior the ability to do anything he wants.
Buntin also said the phrase, "Congress does not intend" [emphasis hers] to
have buffer zones around the proposed NCA is meaningless.
"This is the federal government out of control," Buntin said.
------------------------------------------------------------
|| Visit our Web Site!! ------- http://www.theriver.com/tombstonenews(http://www.theriver.com/tombstonenews) ||
------------------------------------------------------------
Attachment: vcard [not shown]
5273 From: citizenpower <citizenpower@h...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 10:38am
Subject: Jeep Rider Asks For Mercy
I last rode a jeep in Korea in 1948.
I am writing to ask that you help in this situation:
The following is poetry by Anthony Chaney, scheduled for death by
Governor
Jane Hull of Arizona. Please sign the petition to free him.. Please join
us in prayer and action. Nonviolence is one web.. nonviolence to human,
animal, bird, reptile, fish, insect, plant.
Anthony Chaney:
Once I was a rabbits grave and a basketball hoop on the garage, a
cucumber patch, lilac trees and peonies crawling with ants. I was mossy
stepping stones in a creek and a mysterious cistern , grass fires,
water fights and a swing in the backyard. I was a picket fence ,a bed
and maple chest of drawers , a dog named Sandy who danced.
I dreamed a lot.
In this place of institutional death I am more alone than ever before.
Part animal, but not protected by his instincts or restricted by his
vision. I am part spirit as well, yet scarcely free, limited by taste ,
touch, and time yearning for all of life.
There is no security. Security is sameness and fear, the postponing of
life. I am not waiting to die. I love each minute as it is a lifetime.
I live with uncertainty.
I refuse to lay down and die to make things easier. There are mountains
yet to climb, clouds to ride, stars to explore and friends to love.
I dream a lot.
My soul is not empty from living in this barren city of the damned.
There are the wind and the ocean ,books and music, strength and joys
contained within my heart ,and always - always the night. My life is
celebration , I refuse to lose myself in ritual.
Reality is : I dream a lot.
What about you and I ?
We didn't sell lemonade together or hitchhike to school. We are not
from the same town, the same country, hardly the same world. Yet we
found friendship. No roles to play, no security to provide, only the
love and caring found within our improbable friendship. There is trust,
understanding, growth, exploration with smiles, and yes, even tears.
We dream a lot.
Tony Chaney -April 1999
> Father Mother God (who answers to All names) thank You that You are
going to save Anthony
> Chaney's life and open the hearts of all in the US and everywhere.
> Thank You that You are selecting the candidate through whom the
> most Spirit will flow for all, and that You are establishing
> Your nonviolent world now and forever.
Anthony Chaney shot a man 17 years ago. Gov Hull has scheduled him for
execution on Feb 16th. Please cancel this with combined positive
thought,
prayer and action.
>
> Petition re Arizona's scheduled murder of Anthony Chaney
> http://www.e-thepeople.com/petition.cfm?PETID=314742
> http://www.angelfire.com/country/AnthonyChaney
http://www.egroups.com/group/ohioabolition
http://www.afsc.org
5274 From: Leah Eliscu <eliscu@m...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 10:47am
Subject: Interesting article in the AZ Daily star today...
I am contacting Carla Boucher and other officials
about this lawsuit, I want more info! Maybe they
could use our support.
Leah
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
N. Arizona monument sparks suit
PHOENIX (AP) - Several Arizona lawmakers and Utah ranchers sued the
federal government yesterday over the creation of a national monument in
Northern Arizona.
Earlier this month, President Clinton declared three new national
monuments
during a trip to the Grand Canyon. The lawsuit concerns the Grand
Canyon-Parashant National Monument, which covers more than 1 million
acres of land, roughly the same amount as Grand Canyon National Park.
Seven state representatives, including Bill McGibbon, R-Green Valley,
are among the plaintiffs in the suit.
The list of plaintiffs includes several Utah ranching families. The
lawsuit states the ranchers live part of the year in Arizona on the
Shivwits Plateau that was designated for the monument.
The group is seeking an injunction prohibiting the creation of the Grand
Canyon-Parashant National Monument. It is also asking that the court
find the Antiquities Act unconstitutional. The act has been used since
1906 by all
but three presidents to protect the federally owned scenic areas from
harm due to activities such as mining or development.
``We don't have a problem with protecting the land,'' said Lana E.
Marcussen, attorney for the plaintiffs. But if a president wants to take
huge tracts of land,
Congress should have to write a bill and protect the interests of the
people it affects, she said.
Officials at the U.S. Interior Department were not available for comment
yesterday.
>
5275 From: De Slug <mschwitz@U...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 10:52am
Subject: Re: Jeep Rider Asks For Mercy
from: http://www.adc.state.az.us:81/DeathRow/DRowCF.htm#CHANEY
<snip>
Chaney and Deanna Jo Saunders-Coleman were on the run from a string of
burglaries in Texas and Colorado. They were
driving a stolen pickup truck and were in possession of 11 stolen
firearms. On September 6, 1982, Coconino County
Sheriff's Deputy Robert Cline, on routine patrol, checked the campsite
where Chaney and Saunders-Coleman were staying
outside of Flagstaff. After requesting a check on the stolen truck,
Cline got out of his car and began talking to Chaney. Chaney
pulled a gun on the deputy, had Deanna disarm him, and handcuffed him to
a tree. Chaney and Deanna got into the truck and
started to leave. As they did, John Jamison, a reserve deputy who was
also a medical doctor, arrived at the scene. Chaney
jumped out of the truck and began firing at Jamison with an AR-15 rifle.
Using a hail of fire to pin Jamison down inside his
car, Chaney advanced to point blank range and fired three fatal shots
into the deputy. In addition to the fatal three wounds,
the deputy was struck by over 200 fragments of metal and glass from the
shots fired into the vehicle. Saunders-Coleman pled
guilty to second-degree murder and received a 21-year prison sentence.
She testified against Chaney.
<snip>
Sounds like a nice guy, eh? I pity him so much because of his horrible
ordeal of being injected with drugs which will painlessly kill him. boo
hoo. MIKE
5276 From: Sullivan, Len <LSULLIV@C...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 11:02am
Subject: Re: SPAM!!! Jeep Rider Asks For Mercy
<<<very well snipped>>>
>Anthony Chaney shot a man 17 years ago.
I forsee a lot of complaining ahead..................the group seems to be
getting spammed pretty regularly. Before everyone jumps on Dan, everyone
needs to know that the group administrator does not normally preview
messages before they reach the list. I'm sure that Dan has this list set up
just like mine, with filters that prevent non-member submissions and look
for certain taboo key words. Unfortunately, once a person is actually
subscribed to the list, that person can post anything they want and the list
admin doesn't know about it until after the fact.
I'm sure that Dan will put this person in his place and inform him that this
is not the forum to bring up issues like this. If anyone feels the need to
respond, please respond directly to him......not to the group.
just one list admin helpin' out another..............
Len Sullivan
5277 From: Pete <wirch@m...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 11:48am
Subject: Some people just shouldn't own a Jeep ...
There are some things that are just too hard to believe! This from a
radio program, a TRUE report of a happening in Michigan:
A guy buys a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee for $30,000 and has $500+
monthly payments. He and a friend go duck hunting and, of course, all
the lakes are frozen. These two guys go to the lake with the guns, the
dog, the beer and of course the new vehicle. They drive out onto the
lake ice, which is normal at this time of the year, and get ready.
They want to make some kind of a natural landing area for the ducks,
something for the decoys to float on. In order to make a hole large
enough to look like something a wandering duck would fly down and land
on, it is going to take a little more effort than an ice hole drill.
So, out of the back of the new Grand Cherokee comes a stick of dynamite
with a short, 40 second fuse.
Now, these two Rocket Scientists do take into consideration that they
should place the dynamite at a location far from where they are
standing (and the new Jeep Grand Cherokee). Mainly because they don't
want to take the risk of slipping on the ice when they run from the
burning fuse and possibly go up in smoke with the resulting blast. They
decide to light this 40 second fuse and throw the dynamite.
(Remember a couple of paragraphs back when I mentioned the vehicle, the
beer, the guns, and the dog?) Yes, the dog, a highly trained Black
Labrador used for retrieving. Especially things thrown by the owner.
You guessed it, the dog takes off at a high rate of doggy speed on the
ice and captures the stick of dynamite with the burning 40 second fuse
about the time it hits the ice.
The two men yell, scream, wave arms and wonder what to do now. The dog,
cheered on, keeps coming. One of the guys grabs the shotgun and shoots
the dog. The shotgun is loaded with # 4 steel duck shot, hardly big
enough to stop a Black Lab. The dog stops for a moment, slightly
confused, but continues coming. Another shot and this time the dog,
still standing, becomes really confused and of course terrified,
thinking these two Nobel
Prize winners have gone insane.
The dog takes off to find cover, (with the now really short fuse
burning on the stick of dynamite) and gets under the brand new
Cherokee. ---- BOOM! Dog and Cherokee are blown to bits and sink to
the bottom of the lake in a very large hole, leaving the two idiots
standing there with a "I can't believe this happened" look on their
faces.
The insurance company says that sinking a vehicle in a lake by illegal
use of explosives is not covered ..... A N D ......... He still had
to make those $500+ a month payments !!
And you thought your day was not going well!!
5278 From: JAMES FLOWERS <jamesflowers67@h...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 4:58am
Subject: Re: Jeep Rider Asks For Mercy
what does thAat have to do with jeeps i am with the governor on this one.
jim
>From: "citizenpower" <citizenpower@h...>
>To: az_vjc@eGroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Jeep Rider Asks For Mercy
>Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:38:06 -0800
>
>
>I last rode a jeep in Korea in 1948.
>I am writing to ask that you help in this situation:
>
>The following is poetry by Anthony Chaney, scheduled for death by
>Governor
>Jane Hull of Arizona. Please sign the petition to free him.. Please join
>us in prayer and action. Nonviolence is one web.. nonviolence to human,
>animal, bird, reptile, fish, insect, plant.
>
>Anthony Chaney:
>Once I was a rabbits grave and a basketball hoop on the garage, a
>cucumber patch, lilac trees and peonies crawling with ants. I was mossy
>stepping stones in a creek and a mysterious cistern , grass fires,
>water fights and a swing in the backyard. I was a picket fence ,a bed
>and maple chest of drawers , a dog named Sandy who danced.
>
> I dreamed a lot.
>
>In this place of institutional death I am more alone than ever before.
>Part animal, but not protected by his instincts or restricted by his
>vision. I am part spirit as well, yet scarcely free, limited by taste ,
>touch, and time yearning for all of life.
>
>There is no security. Security is sameness and fear, the postponing of
>life. I am not waiting to die. I love each minute as it is a lifetime.
>I live with uncertainty.
>
>I refuse to lay down and die to make things easier. There are mountains
>yet to climb, clouds to ride, stars to explore and friends to love.
>
> I dream a lot.
>
>My soul is not empty from living in this barren city of the damned.
>There are the wind and the ocean ,books and music, strength and joys
>contained within my heart ,and always - always the night. My life is
>celebration , I refuse to lose myself in ritual.
>
> Reality is : I dream a lot.
>
>What about you and I ?
>
>We didn't sell lemonade together or hitchhike to school. We are not
>from the same town, the same country, hardly the same world. Yet we
>found friendship. No roles to play, no security to provide, only the
>love and caring found within our improbable friendship. There is trust,
>understanding, growth, exploration with smiles, and yes, even tears.
>
> We dream a lot.
>
>Tony Chaney -April 1999
>
>
>
>
>
> > Father Mother God (who answers to All names) thank You that You are
>going to save Anthony
> > Chaney's life and open the hearts of all in the US and everywhere.
> > Thank You that You are selecting the candidate through whom the
> > most Spirit will flow for all, and that You are establishing
> > Your nonviolent world now and forever.
>
>Anthony Chaney shot a man 17 years ago. Gov Hull has scheduled him for
>execution on Feb 16th. Please cancel this with combined positive
>thought,
>prayer and action.
> >
> > Petition re Arizona's scheduled murder of Anthony Chaney
> > http://www.e-thepeople.com/petition.cfm?PETID=314742
> > http://www.angelfire.com/country/AnthonyChaney
> http://www.egroups.com/group/ohioabolition
> http://www.afsc.org
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as
>0.0% Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no
>hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit
>you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at:
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>
>-- Create a poll/survey for your group!
>-- http://www.egroups.com/vote?listname=az_vjc&m=1
>
__________________________________________________ ____
5279 From: DougB <doug-louisa@h...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 0:17pm
Subject: Re: Jeep Rider Asks For Mercy
This is clearly not appropriate for this forum. The impression I have is
that the author (citizenpower) is not really a member of AzVJC, and should
be kill filed from the list (NPI). Thanks Mike (de slug) for providing the
facts behind the case.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: JAMES FLOWERS <jamesflowers67@h...>
To: <citizenpower@h...>
Cc: <az_vjc@eGroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 12:58 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Jeep Rider Asks For Mercy
> what does thAat have to do with jeeps i am with the governor on this one.
> jim
>
>
> >From: "citizenpower" <citizenpower@h...>
> >To: az_vjc@eGroups.com
> >Subject: [az_vjc] Jeep Rider Asks For Mercy
> >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:38:06 -0800
> >
> >
> >I last rode a jeep in Korea in 1948.
> >I am writing to ask that you help in this situation:
> >
> >The following is poetry by Anthony Chaney, scheduled for death by
> >Governor
> >Jane Hull of Arizona. Please sign the petition to free him.. Please join
> >us in prayer and action. Nonviolence is one web.. nonviolence to human,
> >animal, bird, reptile, fish, insect, plant.
> >
> >Anthony Chaney:
> >Once I was a rabbits grave and a basketball hoop on the garage, a
> >cucumber patch, lilac trees and peonies crawling with ants. I was mossy
> >stepping stones in a creek and a mysterious cistern , grass fires,
> >water fights and a swing in the backyard. I was a picket fence ,a bed
> >and maple chest of drawers , a dog named Sandy who danced.
> >
> > I dreamed a lot.
> >
> >In this place of institutional death I am more alone than ever before.
> >Part animal, but not protected by his instincts or restricted by his
> >vision. I am part spirit as well, yet scarcely free, limited by taste ,
> >touch, and time yearning for all of life.
> >
> >There is no security. Security is sameness and fear, the postponing of
> >life. I am not waiting to die. I love each minute as it is a lifetime.
> >I live with uncertainty.
> >
> >I refuse to lay down and die to make things easier. There are mountains
> >yet to climb, clouds to ride, stars to explore and friends to love.
> >
> > I dream a lot.
> >
> >My soul is not empty from living in this barren city of the damned.
> >There are the wind and the ocean ,books and music, strength and joys
> >contained within my heart ,and always - always the night. My life is
> >celebration , I refuse to lose myself in ritual.
> >
> > Reality is : I dream a lot.
> >
> >What about you and I ?
> >
> >We didn't sell lemonade together or hitchhike to school. We are not
> >from the same town, the same country, hardly the same world. Yet we
> >found friendship. No roles to play, no security to provide, only the
> >love and caring found within our improbable friendship. There is trust,
> >understanding, growth, exploration with smiles, and yes, even tears.
> >
> > We dream a lot.
> >
> >Tony Chaney -April 1999
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Father Mother God (who answers to All names) thank You that You are
> >going to save Anthony
> > > Chaney's life and open the hearts of all in the US and everywhere.
> > > Thank You that You are selecting the candidate through whom the
> > > most Spirit will flow for all, and that You are establishing
> > > Your nonviolent world now and forever.
> >
> >Anthony Chaney shot a man 17 years ago. Gov Hull has scheduled him for
> >execution on Feb 16th. Please cancel this with combined positive
> >thought,
> >prayer and action.
> > >
> > > Petition re Arizona's scheduled murder of Anthony Chaney
> > > http://www.e-thepeople.com/petition.cfm?PETID=314742
> > > http://www.angelfire.com/country/AnthonyChaney
> > http://www.egroups.com/group/ohioabolition
> > http://www.afsc.org
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as
> >0.0% Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no
> >hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit
> >you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at:
> >http://click.egroups.com/1/966/4/_/1966/_/948998301/
> >
> >-- Create a poll/survey for your group!
> >-- http://www.egroups.com/vote?listname=az_vjc&m=1
> >
>
> __________________________________________________ ____
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Save 50% at MotherNature.com! See site for details.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/766/4/_/1966/_/949003124/
>
> -- Talk to your group with your own voice!
> -- http://www.egroups.com/VoiceChatPage?listName=az_vjc&m=1
>
>
5280 From: Dave Reinken <daver@c...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 0:37pm
Subject: Re: Some people just shouldn't own a Jeep ...
This is actually an old urban legend. It first made internet rounds in
early 1997. Variations of the story have been traced all the way back
to 1900 (although without the Jeep, obviously.)
Cite:
http://www.snopes.com/critters/cruelty/dynamite.htm
Pete wrote:
>
> There are some things that are just too hard to believe! This from a
> radio program, a TRUE report of a happening in Michigan:
>
> A guy buys a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee for $30,000 and has $500+
> monthly payments. He and a friend go duck hunting and, of course, all
> the lakes are frozen. These two guys go to the lake with the guns, the
> dog, the beer and of course the new vehicle. They drive out onto the
> lake ice, which is normal at this time of the year, and get ready.
>
> They want to make some kind of a natural landing area for the ducks,
> something for the decoys to float on. In order to make a hole large
> enough to look like something a wandering duck would fly down and land
> on, it is going to take a little more effort than an ice hole drill.
> So, out of the back of the new Grand Cherokee comes a stick of dynamite
> with a short, 40 second fuse.
>
> Now, these two Rocket Scientists do take into consideration that they
> should place the dynamite at a location far from where they are
> standing (and the new Jeep Grand Cherokee). Mainly because they don't
> want to take the risk of slipping on the ice when they run from the
> burning fuse and possibly go up in smoke with the resulting blast. They
> decide to light this 40 second fuse and throw the dynamite.
>
> (Remember a couple of paragraphs back when I mentioned the vehicle, the
> beer, the guns, and the dog?) Yes, the dog, a highly trained Black
> Labrador used for retrieving. Especially things thrown by the owner.
> You guessed it, the dog takes off at a high rate of doggy speed on the
> ice and captures the stick of dynamite with the burning 40 second fuse
> about the time it hits the ice.
>
> The two men yell, scream, wave arms and wonder what to do now. The dog,
> cheered on, keeps coming. One of the guys grabs the shotgun and shoots
> the dog. The shotgun is loaded with # 4 steel duck shot, hardly big
> enough to stop a Black Lab. The dog stops for a moment, slightly
> confused, but continues coming. Another shot and this time the dog,
> still standing, becomes really confused and of course terrified,
> thinking these two Nobel
> Prize winners have gone insane.
>
> The dog takes off to find cover, (with the now really short fuse
> burning on the stick of dynamite) and gets under the brand new
> Cherokee. ---- BOOM! Dog and Cherokee are blown to bits and sink to
> the bottom of the lake in a very large hole, leaving the two idiots
> standing there with a "I can't believe this happened" look on their
> faces.
>
> The insurance company says that sinking a vehicle in a lake by illegal
> use of explosives is not covered ..... A N D ......... He still had
> to make those $500+ a month payments !!
>
> And you thought your day was not going well!!
5281 From: Dale M. Schuler <dsoutwest@e...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 0:48pm
Subject: Re: Some people just shouldn't own a Jeep ...
This may be urban legend, but I am (formally) from Michigan and have
seen things like this happen every winter, especially with snowmobiles.
Dale
dave reinken <dave-@c...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/az_vjc/?start=5280
> This is actually an old urban legend. It first made internet rounds
in
> early 1997. Variations of the story have been traced all the way back
> to 1900 (although without the Jeep, obviously.)
>
> Cite:
> http://www.snopes.com/critters/cruelty/dynamite.htm
>
> Pete wrote:
> >
> > There are some things that are just too hard to believe! This from a
> > radio program, a TRUE report of a happening in Michigan:
> >
> > A guy buys a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee for $30,000 and has $500+
> > monthly payments. He and a friend go duck hunting and, of course,
all
> > the lakes are frozen. These two guys go to the lake with the guns,
the
> > dog, the beer and of course the new vehicle. They drive out onto the
> > lake ice, which is normal at this time of the year, and get ready.
> >
> > They want to make some kind of a natural landing area for the ducks,
> > something for the decoys to float on. In order to make a hole large
> > enough to look like something a wandering duck would fly down and
land
> > on, it is going to take a little more effort than an ice hole drill.
> > So, out of the back of the new Grand Cherokee comes a stick of
dynamite
> > with a short, 40 second fuse.
> >
> > Now, these two Rocket Scientists do take into consideration that
they
> > should place the dynamite at a location far from where they are
> > standing (and the new Jeep Grand Cherokee). Mainly because they
don't
> > want to take the risk of slipping on the ice when they run from the
> > burning fuse and possibly go up in smoke with the resulting blast.
They
> > decide to light this 40 second fuse and throw the dynamite.
> >
> > (Remember a couple of paragraphs back when I mentioned the vehicle,
the
> > beer, the guns, and the dog?) Yes, the dog, a highly trained Black
> > Labrador used for retrieving. Especially things thrown by the owner.
> > You guessed it, the dog takes off at a high rate of doggy speed on
the
> > ice and captures the stick of dynamite with the burning 40 second
fuse
> > about the time it hits the ice.
> >
> > The two men yell, scream, wave arms and wonder what to do now. The
dog,
> > cheered on, keeps coming. One of the guys grabs the shotgun and
shoots
> > the dog. The shotgun is loaded with # 4 steel duck shot, hardly big
> > enough to stop a Black Lab. The dog stops for a moment, slightly
> > confused, but continues coming. Another shot and this time the dog,
> > still standing, becomes really confused and of course terrified,
> > thinking these two Nobel
> > Prize winners have gone insane.
> >
> > The dog takes off to find cover, (with the now really short fuse
> > burning on the stick of dynamite) and gets under the brand new
> > Cherokee. ---- BOOM! Dog and Cherokee are blown to bits and sink to
> > the bottom of the lake in a very large hole, leaving the two idiots
> > standing there with a "I can't believe this happened" look on their
> > faces.
> >
> > The insurance company says that sinking a vehicle in a lake by
illegal
> > use of explosives is not covered ..... A N D ......... He still
had
> > to make those $500+ a month payments !!
> >
> > And you thought your day was not going well!!
5282 From: Dave Reinken <daver@c...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:09pm
Subject: Re: Some people just shouldn't own a Jeep ...
Urban legends aren't necessarily false, although they usually are to
some degree. Here's a definition:
"An urban legend:
1. appears mysteriously and spreads spontaneously in varying forms
2. contains elements of humor or horror (the horror often "punishes"
someone who flouts society's conventions).
3. makes good storytelling.
4. does NOT have to be false, although most are. ULs often have a basis
in fact, but it's their life after-the-fact (particularly in reference
to the second and third points) that gives them particular interest."
http://www.urbanlegends.com/afu.faq/index.html
"Dale M. Schuler" wrote:
>
> This may be urban legend, but I am (formally) from Michigan and have
> seen things like this happen every winter, especially with snowmobiles.
>
> Dale
>
5283 From: Leah Eliscu <eliscu@m...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 2:27pm
Subject: OFF-ROAD MAGAZINE
Hi All,
Check out the March 2000 issue of the above!
Under Trail Rides-page 40
Charouleau Gap Trail
Cool trails and a four wheel-drive success story
a short story on the Gap Trail, and about
the Rough Riders push for access!
A really nice article. Although I don't recognize
anyone from the Tucson Rough Riders in the pictures.
Let me know if you do.
The Front cover has a neon green Exploder on it.
I found it at Circle K.
Leah
5284 From: Felix and Kerry <fes@u...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 2:29pm
Subject: FR42 Run
Sorry late also but was tied up with family..
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=215069&a=1589540
5285 From: Glen Beachler <glenbe@p...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 4:13pm
Subject: Re: TR - Battle Axe/Gila River Trip
Battle Axe/Gila River Trip
Sounds good to me for either Sat or Sun I would like to get to the
coke ovens.
Glen Beachler
98TJ
5286 From: Glen Beachler <glenbe@p...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 4:19pm
Subject: Jeep Insurance for Teenager
A friend has a teenage son that wants to get a jeep but is having
trouble finding insurance on the jeep.
Any recommendations?
Glen Beachler
98TJ
5287 From: Ken Shields <ken.shields@m...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 5:37pm
Subject: Re: OFF-ROAD MAGAZINE
Actually, the run being shown was sponsored by
the Arizona LandCruiser Association, and part of
the '80 Series Dual in the Desert' back in May 1999.
The Author, Jay Kopycinski is a member of the
Lo' Rangers.
BTW: I own the White FJ40 shown on the first and
second page of the article.
If interested here is a link to some pics of the run:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=52926&a=369990
Ken
PS. If you squint, an FJ40 looks a lot like a Jeep.
> Hi All,
>
> Check out the March 2000 issue of the above!
>
> Under Trail Rides-page 40
>
> Charouleau Gap Trail
> Cool trails and a four wheel-drive success story
>
> a short story on the Gap Trail, and about
> the Rough Riders push for access!
> A really nice article. Although I don't recognize
> anyone from the Tucson Rough Riders in the pictures.
> Let me know if you do.
>
> The Front cover has a neon green Exploder on it.
> I found it at Circle K.
>
> Leah
5288 From: Larry Maggio <lmaggio@p...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 6:07pm
Subject: Wow... good news for a change.
Jeepers,
Fire up those browsers and check it out...
http://www.enn.com/news/enn-stories/2000/01/01262000/blmrules_9354.asp
Also, make sure you open the link at the bottom entitled "groups ride forest
service"
Regards,
LarryM
5264 From: Larry Maggio <lmaggio@p...>
Date: Wed Jan 26, 2000 4:46pm
Subject: Re: new to group
Welcome Scott, are you the same Scott Peterson who has the CJ style dash in
a Wrangler?
LarryM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
5265 From: B H <boh105@e...>
Date: Wed Jan 26, 2000 5:28pm
Subject: Re: Parker Update
Hi Guys,
It looks as if the Flagstaff contigant will consist of me 88 XJ, Todd
hoffman 88 XJ, and possibly our club treausrer in thier CJ7, and our club
President in his cut up chevy PU,
Can I get particulars on the whens and wheres and hows so I can pass them on
to the local club members who want to attend.
PS no arb yet...IM starting to get nervous!
Brian Harmon
88 XJ, Dana44 rear, DAna 30 FRont,3.5 in RE lift
Nationl rear leafs, MJ shackles, custom rock rails, custom skid plates,
trashed bumpers, roof basket, 92 radiator conversion,31x10.5 BFG AT's KO's,
KC's, yada, yada, yada.
__________________________________________________ _____
Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
Visit http://freeworld.excite.com
5266 From: DougB <doug-louisa@h...>
Date: Wed Jan 26, 2000 7:14pm
Subject: Parker
Thanks Al, for reserving the camping area for us. Sounds like it will work out well.
Not sure how many from Phoenix are going (from AzVJC), but several of us are planning on hooking up on the west side of town on Friday (2/4/00). The plan is to meet on the north side of I-10 at the 51st Av. exit at the Jack in the Box, at 12noon.
Those planning on making this caravan shoot out a note if you could, so we can keep an eye out for you. We'll be on channel 4.
Looking forward to Parker. Should be a blast.
Doug
5267 From: Andrew F. Mason <afmason@h...>
Date: Wed Jan 26, 2000 2:43pm
Subject: Pictures from Trail 42 run
Here are some pictures from the trail 42 run a couple of weeks ago. Sorry it took so long to get these posted.
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=191032&a=1639211
Andy & Tina Mason
Black 99TJ
5268 From: Andrew F. Mason <afmason@h...>
Date: Wed Jan 26, 2000 2:46pm
Subject: Box/Martinez Canyon Pictures
Here are some pictures from a trip we took to Box/Martinez Canyons last
week. Two members from the AZVJC went as well as a Ford Ranger and a Dodge
Durango. Enjoy.
(Check out the last picture in the series, my wife got a perfect picture of
our jeep getting a little air on a very steep hill)
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=191032&a=1639130
Andy & Tina Mason
Black 99TJ
5269 From: O'Boyle, David <David.OBoyle@b...>
Date: Wed Jan 26, 2000 11:00pm
Subject: MDA 2000 event 02/04/00 ACTION PLAN
MDA 2000 event
We will leave a 10:00 AM 02/04/2000 at the Pilot truck stop. Exit 138 on
I-10
and 59ave. I plan to get there about 9:30, in order to get fuel and ice.
It
about 300 miles to Ocotillo Wells, so we should arrive about the time the
registration desk opens. We will make camp and get ready for the Sunset
Poker
Run at 6:30pm.
We will be using CB channel 32, and if you have a GPS, the following
attachment
is the route.
Attachment: (application/msexcel) Phoenix to Ocotillo Wells.xls [not stored]
5270 From: Linda Luik <p14175@e...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 7:22am
Subject: TR - Battle Axe/Gila River Trip
I am planning an exploratory trip in the Battle Axe Rd - Gila River area on
1/29 or 1/30. This will probably be a long day and I have no idea what we are
going to see. A friend of mine with a HUMM (the ER fell off) is interested in
checking out this area. Most likely we will make it out to the coke ovens.
Let me know if you are interested in coming along.
Linda
Attachment: vcard [not shown]
5271 From: Linda Luik <p14175@e...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 7:25am
Subject: [Fwd: Article--USFS Road Plan]
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:06:54 MST
From: Terry Heslin theslin@p...
Subject: Article--USFS Road Plan
To: Blind *Copy theslin@p...
Apparently-To: "Linda_Luik-P14175@email" p14175@msgphx8
Outdoor Enthusiasts:
The second part of the "roadless" initiative is the plan on how the existing roads on National Forests will be managed. The article below indicates that the initial study of the FS road system is nearing completion. The comment period for the "roadless" initiative should have been conducted concurrently with the publication of the road study and plan.
Access advocates will be keenly interested in the definitions and recommendations of the document--especially important are the new terms "classified" and unclassified" roads. Stay tuned, the article is below:
http://www.sltrib.com/2000/jan/01262000/nation_w/20720.htm
Forest Service Readies Plan for Managing Roads
Wednesday, January
26, 2000
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
SAN FRANCISCO -- U.S. Forest Service chief Michael Dombeck said Tuesday a
long-awaited study on managing 380,000 miles of national forest roads is nearing
completion, and suggested that scaling back the roadway network is one of the likely
options.
Dombeck told the Commonwealth Club that the report, which will be offered within
weeks for a round of public hearings, is the first step toward devising a nationwide plan to
manage the controversial road system.
"We'll sit down with county supervisors" and others to work out a plan, Dombeck
added.
Environmentalists believe the roads can contribute to environmental harm in the
nation's 192 million acres of national forests. Dombeck agreed, in part.
The question is, which roads should be eliminated? Some roads may be a "bulwark
against noxious weeds, invasive species," Dombeck said.
"The problem is that right now we have more roads than we can afford," he said,
noting that roads, especially those that are poorly maintained, can degrade fisheries and
wildlife habitats.
"We're losing access by our inability to maintain roads. About 1,000 miles of roads
annually fall into disrepair," said Dombeck.
But Chris Nance, a spokesman for the California Forestry Association, said Dombeck
and the Clinton administration have focused on roads to the exclusion of other elements that
affect forest health
Attachment: vcard [not shown]
5272 From: Linda Luik <p14175@e...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 7:27am
Subject: [Fwd: FWD: Las Cienegas National Conservation Area (NCA)]
FYI -- particularly for our Tucson and other southern AZ Virtual Jeep Club members.
Linda
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:31:26 MST
From: Terry Heslin theslin@p...
Subject: FWD: Las Cienegas National Conservation Area (NCA)
To: Blind *Copy theslin@p...
Apparently-To: "Linda_Luik-P14175@email" p14175@msgphx8
Outdoor Enthusiasts:
This article addresses southern Arizona specifically, but it concerns all of us who are interested in public and private lands, open space and environmental politics.
--------------------------------------
Date: 1/26/0 4:05 PM
From: Rachel Thomas
People, this is about what is happening in Southern Arizona. But look around, the same type of activities are probably going on somewhere in the area close to where you live. I added bold print for one statement. About Kolbe's legislative assistance not knowing an answer to a question. His statement was that we needed to ask Luther Propst, Sonoran Institute. L. Propst is also very involved in trying to get the growth control package passed in this state. BUT BLM AND A LEGISLATIVE ASSISTANT STATING THAT THE PEOPLE HAVE TO ASK PROPST ABOUT SOMETHING PERTAINING TO THE GOVERNMENT. SOMETHING ISN'T RIGHT HERE.
By Pat Koester
Tombstone Tumbleweed
www.theriver.com/tombstonenews(http://www.theriver.com/tombstonenews)
Cochise County property owners who attended a tour and briefing last Friday
of the proposed Las Cienegas National Conservation Area (NCA) were not
convinced that they were getting the straight scoop from representatives of
the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and Congressman Jim Kolbe's office.
Kolbe introduced legislation last September to create the 206,000-acre NCA,
which stretches from Tucson southward to Sonoita and Cochise County.
The big unanswered question of the day was this: how did private property in
Cochise County get included in the proposed area without the knowledge of
the property owners or county officials?
Cochise County Supervisor Les Thompson said he had heard about the proposed
NCA, which is located primarily in Pima and Santa Cruz Counties to the west;
but, he said, he had no idea it also included a portion of Cochise County
until he happened to look at a brochure about it in a BLM office.
Then, he said, he was told all property owners within the proposed
boundaries had been notified. But when he contacted some of the affected
property owners, he discovered they didn't know anything about it either.
According to Bill Brannen, who manages the Audubon Society's Research Ranch
in the extreme southern portion of the NCA, the idea for the NCA grew out of
the Sonoita Valley Planning Partnership, which was formed in 1995 to work on
public lands issues in the BLM's Empire-Cienega Resources Conservation Area
(RCA).
That area, which BLM purchased in 1988, is part of the proposed NCA.
Asked how part of Cochise County came to be included in the NCA, Jesse Juen,
BLM's Tucson area manager, said, "I don't know. Ask Kevin Messner [Kolbe's
legislative assistant]."
"I don't know either," said Messner, "You would probably have to ask Luther Propst at the Sonoran Institute [a conservation non-governmental
organization in Tucson] about that."
Unfortunately, Propst was out of town all week and could not be reached.
The proposed NCA, as outlined on a map dated Sept. 22, 1999, encompasses a
total of 322 square miles. It stretches approximately 35 miles, zigzagging
from Saguaro National Park (just east of Tucson) in the north to the
Coronado National Forest and Sonoita in the south. National forests also
form parts of the western and eastern boundaries.
Less than a quarter of the proposed NCA is currently federal land -
primarily the BLM's RCA. About half of the area is state land, and the rest
is privately owned.
About 20 square miles of that private property is in Cochise County. Some of
it is in the Mescal area along Interstate 10. Some lies between the
Whetstone Mountains and Fort Huachuca, including one private subdivision,
Mustang Heights. A narrow strip of state land separates the NCA from Fort
Huachuca.
The purpose of the NCA, according to a statement by Kolbe when he introduced
legislation to create the NCA last September, is to "conserve, protect, and
enhance various resources and values while allowing environmentally
responsible and sustainable livestock grazing and recreation" in the
watersheds of the Cienega Creek and Babocomari River - both of which Kolbe
calls "perennial streams."
Juen put it another way. He said the purpose was to prevent development and
stop Tucson from expanding into the area. "I never knew there could be such
a beautiful area so close to Tucson," said Juen. "It would be a shame to
lose it."
The NCA, Kolbe says, would also "provide corridors for animal movements that
are necessary for the long-term viability of important species."
Kevin Messner, Kolbe's legislative assistant, told Friday's group the
proposed NCA boundaries have changed since the September map, and are not
yet finalized. He said all private property owners within the proposed area
are being contacted to see whether or not they want to be included within
the boundaries.
According to Kolbe's bill, the Secretary of the Interior can acquire
"privately owned land or interests therein within the boundaries of the
conservation area by donation, exchange, or, only in the case of
conservation easements, by purchase."
By signing a conservation easement, Messner said, the property owner gives
up all development rights. (See page 11 for a guest editorial about such
easements.)
So far, Messner said, all the private property owners in Cochise County
except the owners of the Babocomari land grant - which covers about half of
the proposed county area - have said they do not want to be included in the NCA.
Kolbe's bill also authorizes the Secretary to acquire state land by any of
the above-mentioned means, or "by eminent domain, only with the consent of
the State of Arizona."
Although half of the proposed NCA - including most of the northern half - is
state land, Messner admitted the state does not support the creation of the
NCA. He said of all the state officials and representatives who have been
contacted, only one - District 8 Rep. Gail Griffin - has responded; and her
response was a letter of opposition.
Cochise County Administrator Jody Klein, at the direction of the Board of
Supervisors, has also written Kolbe a letter of opposition.
Klein questioned whether the presence of two NCAs sandwiched around Fort
Huachuca will negatively impact its ability to carry out its overall mission.
"The Fort is already subject to intense scrutiny, and increasing demands to
become involved in limiting private development off of the Fort Huachuca
Military Reservation through the NEPA process and Endangered Species Act
issues involving the San Pedro River," wrote Klein. "Will the inclusion of a
portion of the Babocomari eventually lead to inclusion of its entire length?
This could well have an impact on private development in the Greater Sierra
Vista area."
Asked why a NCA was necessary, since most of the affected land was already
either federally or state owned, Messner told Friday's group one reason was
to insure that future administrations could not prohibit ranching or
recreation, both of which are allowed under Kolbe's bill.
Messner also said that with a NCA designation, the President could not make
it a national monument, which would undoubtedly carry stricter provisions
than the proposed NCA. Clinton and Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt have
threatened to do just that.
Messner assured Friday's group that, according to Kolbe's bill, a NCA
designation "shall not diminish the rights of private landowners," and would
have no effect on property adjacent to the NCA.
But the group was not convinced.
Barb Buntin, whose property was included within the original NCA boundaries,
pointed to some of the nebulous wording in Kolbe's bill - such as
"sustainable grazing" and a management plan "based on" the Sonoita Valley
Planning Partnership's plan - which, she said, in effect gives the Secretary
of the Interior the ability to do anything he wants.
Buntin also said the phrase, "Congress does not intend" [emphasis hers] to
have buffer zones around the proposed NCA is meaningless.
"This is the federal government out of control," Buntin said.
------------------------------------------------------------
|| Visit our Web Site!! ------- http://www.theriver.com/tombstonenews(http://www.theriver.com/tombstonenews) ||
------------------------------------------------------------
Attachment: vcard [not shown]
5273 From: citizenpower <citizenpower@h...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 10:38am
Subject: Jeep Rider Asks For Mercy
I last rode a jeep in Korea in 1948.
I am writing to ask that you help in this situation:
The following is poetry by Anthony Chaney, scheduled for death by
Governor
Jane Hull of Arizona. Please sign the petition to free him.. Please join
us in prayer and action. Nonviolence is one web.. nonviolence to human,
animal, bird, reptile, fish, insect, plant.
Anthony Chaney:
Once I was a rabbits grave and a basketball hoop on the garage, a
cucumber patch, lilac trees and peonies crawling with ants. I was mossy
stepping stones in a creek and a mysterious cistern , grass fires,
water fights and a swing in the backyard. I was a picket fence ,a bed
and maple chest of drawers , a dog named Sandy who danced.
I dreamed a lot.
In this place of institutional death I am more alone than ever before.
Part animal, but not protected by his instincts or restricted by his
vision. I am part spirit as well, yet scarcely free, limited by taste ,
touch, and time yearning for all of life.
There is no security. Security is sameness and fear, the postponing of
life. I am not waiting to die. I love each minute as it is a lifetime.
I live with uncertainty.
I refuse to lay down and die to make things easier. There are mountains
yet to climb, clouds to ride, stars to explore and friends to love.
I dream a lot.
My soul is not empty from living in this barren city of the damned.
There are the wind and the ocean ,books and music, strength and joys
contained within my heart ,and always - always the night. My life is
celebration , I refuse to lose myself in ritual.
Reality is : I dream a lot.
What about you and I ?
We didn't sell lemonade together or hitchhike to school. We are not
from the same town, the same country, hardly the same world. Yet we
found friendship. No roles to play, no security to provide, only the
love and caring found within our improbable friendship. There is trust,
understanding, growth, exploration with smiles, and yes, even tears.
We dream a lot.
Tony Chaney -April 1999
> Father Mother God (who answers to All names) thank You that You are
going to save Anthony
> Chaney's life and open the hearts of all in the US and everywhere.
> Thank You that You are selecting the candidate through whom the
> most Spirit will flow for all, and that You are establishing
> Your nonviolent world now and forever.
Anthony Chaney shot a man 17 years ago. Gov Hull has scheduled him for
execution on Feb 16th. Please cancel this with combined positive
thought,
prayer and action.
>
> Petition re Arizona's scheduled murder of Anthony Chaney
> http://www.e-thepeople.com/petition.cfm?PETID=314742
> http://www.angelfire.com/country/AnthonyChaney
http://www.egroups.com/group/ohioabolition
http://www.afsc.org
5274 From: Leah Eliscu <eliscu@m...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 10:47am
Subject: Interesting article in the AZ Daily star today...
I am contacting Carla Boucher and other officials
about this lawsuit, I want more info! Maybe they
could use our support.
Leah
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
N. Arizona monument sparks suit
PHOENIX (AP) - Several Arizona lawmakers and Utah ranchers sued the
federal government yesterday over the creation of a national monument in
Northern Arizona.
Earlier this month, President Clinton declared three new national
monuments
during a trip to the Grand Canyon. The lawsuit concerns the Grand
Canyon-Parashant National Monument, which covers more than 1 million
acres of land, roughly the same amount as Grand Canyon National Park.
Seven state representatives, including Bill McGibbon, R-Green Valley,
are among the plaintiffs in the suit.
The list of plaintiffs includes several Utah ranching families. The
lawsuit states the ranchers live part of the year in Arizona on the
Shivwits Plateau that was designated for the monument.
The group is seeking an injunction prohibiting the creation of the Grand
Canyon-Parashant National Monument. It is also asking that the court
find the Antiquities Act unconstitutional. The act has been used since
1906 by all
but three presidents to protect the federally owned scenic areas from
harm due to activities such as mining or development.
``We don't have a problem with protecting the land,'' said Lana E.
Marcussen, attorney for the plaintiffs. But if a president wants to take
huge tracts of land,
Congress should have to write a bill and protect the interests of the
people it affects, she said.
Officials at the U.S. Interior Department were not available for comment
yesterday.
>
5275 From: De Slug <mschwitz@U...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 10:52am
Subject: Re: Jeep Rider Asks For Mercy
from: http://www.adc.state.az.us:81/DeathRow/DRowCF.htm#CHANEY
<snip>
Chaney and Deanna Jo Saunders-Coleman were on the run from a string of
burglaries in Texas and Colorado. They were
driving a stolen pickup truck and were in possession of 11 stolen
firearms. On September 6, 1982, Coconino County
Sheriff's Deputy Robert Cline, on routine patrol, checked the campsite
where Chaney and Saunders-Coleman were staying
outside of Flagstaff. After requesting a check on the stolen truck,
Cline got out of his car and began talking to Chaney. Chaney
pulled a gun on the deputy, had Deanna disarm him, and handcuffed him to
a tree. Chaney and Deanna got into the truck and
started to leave. As they did, John Jamison, a reserve deputy who was
also a medical doctor, arrived at the scene. Chaney
jumped out of the truck and began firing at Jamison with an AR-15 rifle.
Using a hail of fire to pin Jamison down inside his
car, Chaney advanced to point blank range and fired three fatal shots
into the deputy. In addition to the fatal three wounds,
the deputy was struck by over 200 fragments of metal and glass from the
shots fired into the vehicle. Saunders-Coleman pled
guilty to second-degree murder and received a 21-year prison sentence.
She testified against Chaney.
<snip>
Sounds like a nice guy, eh? I pity him so much because of his horrible
ordeal of being injected with drugs which will painlessly kill him. boo
hoo. MIKE
5276 From: Sullivan, Len <LSULLIV@C...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 11:02am
Subject: Re: SPAM!!! Jeep Rider Asks For Mercy
<<<very well snipped>>>
>Anthony Chaney shot a man 17 years ago.
I forsee a lot of complaining ahead..................the group seems to be
getting spammed pretty regularly. Before everyone jumps on Dan, everyone
needs to know that the group administrator does not normally preview
messages before they reach the list. I'm sure that Dan has this list set up
just like mine, with filters that prevent non-member submissions and look
for certain taboo key words. Unfortunately, once a person is actually
subscribed to the list, that person can post anything they want and the list
admin doesn't know about it until after the fact.
I'm sure that Dan will put this person in his place and inform him that this
is not the forum to bring up issues like this. If anyone feels the need to
respond, please respond directly to him......not to the group.
just one list admin helpin' out another..............
Len Sullivan
5277 From: Pete <wirch@m...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 11:48am
Subject: Some people just shouldn't own a Jeep ...
There are some things that are just too hard to believe! This from a
radio program, a TRUE report of a happening in Michigan:
A guy buys a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee for $30,000 and has $500+
monthly payments. He and a friend go duck hunting and, of course, all
the lakes are frozen. These two guys go to the lake with the guns, the
dog, the beer and of course the new vehicle. They drive out onto the
lake ice, which is normal at this time of the year, and get ready.
They want to make some kind of a natural landing area for the ducks,
something for the decoys to float on. In order to make a hole large
enough to look like something a wandering duck would fly down and land
on, it is going to take a little more effort than an ice hole drill.
So, out of the back of the new Grand Cherokee comes a stick of dynamite
with a short, 40 second fuse.
Now, these two Rocket Scientists do take into consideration that they
should place the dynamite at a location far from where they are
standing (and the new Jeep Grand Cherokee). Mainly because they don't
want to take the risk of slipping on the ice when they run from the
burning fuse and possibly go up in smoke with the resulting blast. They
decide to light this 40 second fuse and throw the dynamite.
(Remember a couple of paragraphs back when I mentioned the vehicle, the
beer, the guns, and the dog?) Yes, the dog, a highly trained Black
Labrador used for retrieving. Especially things thrown by the owner.
You guessed it, the dog takes off at a high rate of doggy speed on the
ice and captures the stick of dynamite with the burning 40 second fuse
about the time it hits the ice.
The two men yell, scream, wave arms and wonder what to do now. The dog,
cheered on, keeps coming. One of the guys grabs the shotgun and shoots
the dog. The shotgun is loaded with # 4 steel duck shot, hardly big
enough to stop a Black Lab. The dog stops for a moment, slightly
confused, but continues coming. Another shot and this time the dog,
still standing, becomes really confused and of course terrified,
thinking these two Nobel
Prize winners have gone insane.
The dog takes off to find cover, (with the now really short fuse
burning on the stick of dynamite) and gets under the brand new
Cherokee. ---- BOOM! Dog and Cherokee are blown to bits and sink to
the bottom of the lake in a very large hole, leaving the two idiots
standing there with a "I can't believe this happened" look on their
faces.
The insurance company says that sinking a vehicle in a lake by illegal
use of explosives is not covered ..... A N D ......... He still had
to make those $500+ a month payments !!
And you thought your day was not going well!!
5278 From: JAMES FLOWERS <jamesflowers67@h...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 4:58am
Subject: Re: Jeep Rider Asks For Mercy
what does thAat have to do with jeeps i am with the governor on this one.
jim
>From: "citizenpower" <citizenpower@h...>
>To: az_vjc@eGroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Jeep Rider Asks For Mercy
>Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:38:06 -0800
>
>
>I last rode a jeep in Korea in 1948.
>I am writing to ask that you help in this situation:
>
>The following is poetry by Anthony Chaney, scheduled for death by
>Governor
>Jane Hull of Arizona. Please sign the petition to free him.. Please join
>us in prayer and action. Nonviolence is one web.. nonviolence to human,
>animal, bird, reptile, fish, insect, plant.
>
>Anthony Chaney:
>Once I was a rabbits grave and a basketball hoop on the garage, a
>cucumber patch, lilac trees and peonies crawling with ants. I was mossy
>stepping stones in a creek and a mysterious cistern , grass fires,
>water fights and a swing in the backyard. I was a picket fence ,a bed
>and maple chest of drawers , a dog named Sandy who danced.
>
> I dreamed a lot.
>
>In this place of institutional death I am more alone than ever before.
>Part animal, but not protected by his instincts or restricted by his
>vision. I am part spirit as well, yet scarcely free, limited by taste ,
>touch, and time yearning for all of life.
>
>There is no security. Security is sameness and fear, the postponing of
>life. I am not waiting to die. I love each minute as it is a lifetime.
>I live with uncertainty.
>
>I refuse to lay down and die to make things easier. There are mountains
>yet to climb, clouds to ride, stars to explore and friends to love.
>
> I dream a lot.
>
>My soul is not empty from living in this barren city of the damned.
>There are the wind and the ocean ,books and music, strength and joys
>contained within my heart ,and always - always the night. My life is
>celebration , I refuse to lose myself in ritual.
>
> Reality is : I dream a lot.
>
>What about you and I ?
>
>We didn't sell lemonade together or hitchhike to school. We are not
>from the same town, the same country, hardly the same world. Yet we
>found friendship. No roles to play, no security to provide, only the
>love and caring found within our improbable friendship. There is trust,
>understanding, growth, exploration with smiles, and yes, even tears.
>
> We dream a lot.
>
>Tony Chaney -April 1999
>
>
>
>
>
> > Father Mother God (who answers to All names) thank You that You are
>going to save Anthony
> > Chaney's life and open the hearts of all in the US and everywhere.
> > Thank You that You are selecting the candidate through whom the
> > most Spirit will flow for all, and that You are establishing
> > Your nonviolent world now and forever.
>
>Anthony Chaney shot a man 17 years ago. Gov Hull has scheduled him for
>execution on Feb 16th. Please cancel this with combined positive
>thought,
>prayer and action.
> >
> > Petition re Arizona's scheduled murder of Anthony Chaney
> > http://www.e-thepeople.com/petition.cfm?PETID=314742
> > http://www.angelfire.com/country/AnthonyChaney
> http://www.egroups.com/group/ohioabolition
> http://www.afsc.org
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as
>0.0% Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no
>hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit
>you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at:
>http://click.egroups.com/1/966/4/_/1966/_/948998301/
>
>-- Create a poll/survey for your group!
>-- http://www.egroups.com/vote?listname=az_vjc&m=1
>
__________________________________________________ ____
5279 From: DougB <doug-louisa@h...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 0:17pm
Subject: Re: Jeep Rider Asks For Mercy
This is clearly not appropriate for this forum. The impression I have is
that the author (citizenpower) is not really a member of AzVJC, and should
be kill filed from the list (NPI). Thanks Mike (de slug) for providing the
facts behind the case.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: JAMES FLOWERS <jamesflowers67@h...>
To: <citizenpower@h...>
Cc: <az_vjc@eGroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 12:58 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Jeep Rider Asks For Mercy
> what does thAat have to do with jeeps i am with the governor on this one.
> jim
>
>
> >From: "citizenpower" <citizenpower@h...>
> >To: az_vjc@eGroups.com
> >Subject: [az_vjc] Jeep Rider Asks For Mercy
> >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:38:06 -0800
> >
> >
> >I last rode a jeep in Korea in 1948.
> >I am writing to ask that you help in this situation:
> >
> >The following is poetry by Anthony Chaney, scheduled for death by
> >Governor
> >Jane Hull of Arizona. Please sign the petition to free him.. Please join
> >us in prayer and action. Nonviolence is one web.. nonviolence to human,
> >animal, bird, reptile, fish, insect, plant.
> >
> >Anthony Chaney:
> >Once I was a rabbits grave and a basketball hoop on the garage, a
> >cucumber patch, lilac trees and peonies crawling with ants. I was mossy
> >stepping stones in a creek and a mysterious cistern , grass fires,
> >water fights and a swing in the backyard. I was a picket fence ,a bed
> >and maple chest of drawers , a dog named Sandy who danced.
> >
> > I dreamed a lot.
> >
> >In this place of institutional death I am more alone than ever before.
> >Part animal, but not protected by his instincts or restricted by his
> >vision. I am part spirit as well, yet scarcely free, limited by taste ,
> >touch, and time yearning for all of life.
> >
> >There is no security. Security is sameness and fear, the postponing of
> >life. I am not waiting to die. I love each minute as it is a lifetime.
> >I live with uncertainty.
> >
> >I refuse to lay down and die to make things easier. There are mountains
> >yet to climb, clouds to ride, stars to explore and friends to love.
> >
> > I dream a lot.
> >
> >My soul is not empty from living in this barren city of the damned.
> >There are the wind and the ocean ,books and music, strength and joys
> >contained within my heart ,and always - always the night. My life is
> >celebration , I refuse to lose myself in ritual.
> >
> > Reality is : I dream a lot.
> >
> >What about you and I ?
> >
> >We didn't sell lemonade together or hitchhike to school. We are not
> >from the same town, the same country, hardly the same world. Yet we
> >found friendship. No roles to play, no security to provide, only the
> >love and caring found within our improbable friendship. There is trust,
> >understanding, growth, exploration with smiles, and yes, even tears.
> >
> > We dream a lot.
> >
> >Tony Chaney -April 1999
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Father Mother God (who answers to All names) thank You that You are
> >going to save Anthony
> > > Chaney's life and open the hearts of all in the US and everywhere.
> > > Thank You that You are selecting the candidate through whom the
> > > most Spirit will flow for all, and that You are establishing
> > > Your nonviolent world now and forever.
> >
> >Anthony Chaney shot a man 17 years ago. Gov Hull has scheduled him for
> >execution on Feb 16th. Please cancel this with combined positive
> >thought,
> >prayer and action.
> > >
> > > Petition re Arizona's scheduled murder of Anthony Chaney
> > > http://www.e-thepeople.com/petition.cfm?PETID=314742
> > > http://www.angelfire.com/country/AnthonyChaney
> > http://www.egroups.com/group/ohioabolition
> > http://www.afsc.org
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! ZERO! Rates as low as
> >0.0% Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no
> >hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the credit
> >you deserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at:
> >http://click.egroups.com/1/966/4/_/1966/_/948998301/
> >
> >-- Create a poll/survey for your group!
> >-- http://www.egroups.com/vote?listname=az_vjc&m=1
> >
>
> __________________________________________________ ____
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Save 50% at MotherNature.com! See site for details.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/766/4/_/1966/_/949003124/
>
> -- Talk to your group with your own voice!
> -- http://www.egroups.com/VoiceChatPage?listName=az_vjc&m=1
>
>
5280 From: Dave Reinken <daver@c...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 0:37pm
Subject: Re: Some people just shouldn't own a Jeep ...
This is actually an old urban legend. It first made internet rounds in
early 1997. Variations of the story have been traced all the way back
to 1900 (although without the Jeep, obviously.)
Cite:
http://www.snopes.com/critters/cruelty/dynamite.htm
Pete wrote:
>
> There are some things that are just too hard to believe! This from a
> radio program, a TRUE report of a happening in Michigan:
>
> A guy buys a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee for $30,000 and has $500+
> monthly payments. He and a friend go duck hunting and, of course, all
> the lakes are frozen. These two guys go to the lake with the guns, the
> dog, the beer and of course the new vehicle. They drive out onto the
> lake ice, which is normal at this time of the year, and get ready.
>
> They want to make some kind of a natural landing area for the ducks,
> something for the decoys to float on. In order to make a hole large
> enough to look like something a wandering duck would fly down and land
> on, it is going to take a little more effort than an ice hole drill.
> So, out of the back of the new Grand Cherokee comes a stick of dynamite
> with a short, 40 second fuse.
>
> Now, these two Rocket Scientists do take into consideration that they
> should place the dynamite at a location far from where they are
> standing (and the new Jeep Grand Cherokee). Mainly because they don't
> want to take the risk of slipping on the ice when they run from the
> burning fuse and possibly go up in smoke with the resulting blast. They
> decide to light this 40 second fuse and throw the dynamite.
>
> (Remember a couple of paragraphs back when I mentioned the vehicle, the
> beer, the guns, and the dog?) Yes, the dog, a highly trained Black
> Labrador used for retrieving. Especially things thrown by the owner.
> You guessed it, the dog takes off at a high rate of doggy speed on the
> ice and captures the stick of dynamite with the burning 40 second fuse
> about the time it hits the ice.
>
> The two men yell, scream, wave arms and wonder what to do now. The dog,
> cheered on, keeps coming. One of the guys grabs the shotgun and shoots
> the dog. The shotgun is loaded with # 4 steel duck shot, hardly big
> enough to stop a Black Lab. The dog stops for a moment, slightly
> confused, but continues coming. Another shot and this time the dog,
> still standing, becomes really confused and of course terrified,
> thinking these two Nobel
> Prize winners have gone insane.
>
> The dog takes off to find cover, (with the now really short fuse
> burning on the stick of dynamite) and gets under the brand new
> Cherokee. ---- BOOM! Dog and Cherokee are blown to bits and sink to
> the bottom of the lake in a very large hole, leaving the two idiots
> standing there with a "I can't believe this happened" look on their
> faces.
>
> The insurance company says that sinking a vehicle in a lake by illegal
> use of explosives is not covered ..... A N D ......... He still had
> to make those $500+ a month payments !!
>
> And you thought your day was not going well!!
5281 From: Dale M. Schuler <dsoutwest@e...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 0:48pm
Subject: Re: Some people just shouldn't own a Jeep ...
This may be urban legend, but I am (formally) from Michigan and have
seen things like this happen every winter, especially with snowmobiles.
Dale
dave reinken <dave-@c...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/az_vjc/?start=5280
> This is actually an old urban legend. It first made internet rounds
in
> early 1997. Variations of the story have been traced all the way back
> to 1900 (although without the Jeep, obviously.)
>
> Cite:
> http://www.snopes.com/critters/cruelty/dynamite.htm
>
> Pete wrote:
> >
> > There are some things that are just too hard to believe! This from a
> > radio program, a TRUE report of a happening in Michigan:
> >
> > A guy buys a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee for $30,000 and has $500+
> > monthly payments. He and a friend go duck hunting and, of course,
all
> > the lakes are frozen. These two guys go to the lake with the guns,
the
> > dog, the beer and of course the new vehicle. They drive out onto the
> > lake ice, which is normal at this time of the year, and get ready.
> >
> > They want to make some kind of a natural landing area for the ducks,
> > something for the decoys to float on. In order to make a hole large
> > enough to look like something a wandering duck would fly down and
land
> > on, it is going to take a little more effort than an ice hole drill.
> > So, out of the back of the new Grand Cherokee comes a stick of
dynamite
> > with a short, 40 second fuse.
> >
> > Now, these two Rocket Scientists do take into consideration that
they
> > should place the dynamite at a location far from where they are
> > standing (and the new Jeep Grand Cherokee). Mainly because they
don't
> > want to take the risk of slipping on the ice when they run from the
> > burning fuse and possibly go up in smoke with the resulting blast.
They
> > decide to light this 40 second fuse and throw the dynamite.
> >
> > (Remember a couple of paragraphs back when I mentioned the vehicle,
the
> > beer, the guns, and the dog?) Yes, the dog, a highly trained Black
> > Labrador used for retrieving. Especially things thrown by the owner.
> > You guessed it, the dog takes off at a high rate of doggy speed on
the
> > ice and captures the stick of dynamite with the burning 40 second
fuse
> > about the time it hits the ice.
> >
> > The two men yell, scream, wave arms and wonder what to do now. The
dog,
> > cheered on, keeps coming. One of the guys grabs the shotgun and
shoots
> > the dog. The shotgun is loaded with # 4 steel duck shot, hardly big
> > enough to stop a Black Lab. The dog stops for a moment, slightly
> > confused, but continues coming. Another shot and this time the dog,
> > still standing, becomes really confused and of course terrified,
> > thinking these two Nobel
> > Prize winners have gone insane.
> >
> > The dog takes off to find cover, (with the now really short fuse
> > burning on the stick of dynamite) and gets under the brand new
> > Cherokee. ---- BOOM! Dog and Cherokee are blown to bits and sink to
> > the bottom of the lake in a very large hole, leaving the two idiots
> > standing there with a "I can't believe this happened" look on their
> > faces.
> >
> > The insurance company says that sinking a vehicle in a lake by
illegal
> > use of explosives is not covered ..... A N D ......... He still
had
> > to make those $500+ a month payments !!
> >
> > And you thought your day was not going well!!
5282 From: Dave Reinken <daver@c...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:09pm
Subject: Re: Some people just shouldn't own a Jeep ...
Urban legends aren't necessarily false, although they usually are to
some degree. Here's a definition:
"An urban legend:
1. appears mysteriously and spreads spontaneously in varying forms
2. contains elements of humor or horror (the horror often "punishes"
someone who flouts society's conventions).
3. makes good storytelling.
4. does NOT have to be false, although most are. ULs often have a basis
in fact, but it's their life after-the-fact (particularly in reference
to the second and third points) that gives them particular interest."
http://www.urbanlegends.com/afu.faq/index.html
"Dale M. Schuler" wrote:
>
> This may be urban legend, but I am (formally) from Michigan and have
> seen things like this happen every winter, especially with snowmobiles.
>
> Dale
>
5283 From: Leah Eliscu <eliscu@m...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 2:27pm
Subject: OFF-ROAD MAGAZINE
Hi All,
Check out the March 2000 issue of the above!
Under Trail Rides-page 40
Charouleau Gap Trail
Cool trails and a four wheel-drive success story
a short story on the Gap Trail, and about
the Rough Riders push for access!
A really nice article. Although I don't recognize
anyone from the Tucson Rough Riders in the pictures.
Let me know if you do.
The Front cover has a neon green Exploder on it.
I found it at Circle K.
Leah
5284 From: Felix and Kerry <fes@u...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 2:29pm
Subject: FR42 Run
Sorry late also but was tied up with family..
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=215069&a=1589540
5285 From: Glen Beachler <glenbe@p...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 4:13pm
Subject: Re: TR - Battle Axe/Gila River Trip
Battle Axe/Gila River Trip
Sounds good to me for either Sat or Sun I would like to get to the
coke ovens.
Glen Beachler
98TJ
5286 From: Glen Beachler <glenbe@p...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 4:19pm
Subject: Jeep Insurance for Teenager
A friend has a teenage son that wants to get a jeep but is having
trouble finding insurance on the jeep.
Any recommendations?
Glen Beachler
98TJ
5287 From: Ken Shields <ken.shields@m...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 5:37pm
Subject: Re: OFF-ROAD MAGAZINE
Actually, the run being shown was sponsored by
the Arizona LandCruiser Association, and part of
the '80 Series Dual in the Desert' back in May 1999.
The Author, Jay Kopycinski is a member of the
Lo' Rangers.
BTW: I own the White FJ40 shown on the first and
second page of the article.
If interested here is a link to some pics of the run:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=52926&a=369990
Ken
PS. If you squint, an FJ40 looks a lot like a Jeep.
> Hi All,
>
> Check out the March 2000 issue of the above!
>
> Under Trail Rides-page 40
>
> Charouleau Gap Trail
> Cool trails and a four wheel-drive success story
>
> a short story on the Gap Trail, and about
> the Rough Riders push for access!
> A really nice article. Although I don't recognize
> anyone from the Tucson Rough Riders in the pictures.
> Let me know if you do.
>
> The Front cover has a neon green Exploder on it.
> I found it at Circle K.
>
> Leah
5288 From: Larry Maggio <lmaggio@p...>
Date: Thu Jan 27, 2000 6:07pm
Subject: Wow... good news for a change.
Jeepers,
Fire up those browsers and check it out...
http://www.enn.com/news/enn-stories/2000/01/01262000/blmrules_9354.asp
Also, make sure you open the link at the bottom entitled "groups ride forest
service"
Regards,
LarryM