blooddrive
01-09-2004, 05:32 AM
95497-95521
95497 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Wed Dec 10, 2003 9:51pm
Subject: RE: table mesa maps
The only agency that has any maps of the inventory of Table Mesa is the
Phoenix BLM Field Office on 7th Ave and Deer Valley Rd.
There are "inventory" maps available for determining "routes on the
ground" but there are not yet official access maps available. I'm not
sure you can still get an inventory map so you may have to share with
someone that has one..........
The "inventory" maps of Florence Junction will be available at the MGCP
meeting tomorrow night.......... again, these are only showing what's
"on the ground". The official access maps won't be available for about
a year.
The final access maps will not show anything we don't identify
NOW........ if groups are doing trails (specifically extreme rock
crawling) and not identifying them now we will not have them available
to us until the next RMP which will most likely be 10-15 years from now.
If we're caught on any trails not on the access maps we will be dealt
hefty fines. We MUST identify what we're doing.
Sandee
-----Original Message-----
From: David Cole [mailto:lists@o...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 10:36 PM
To: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Subject: [az_vjc] table mesa maps
Is there a state or BLM office in the East Valley that contains maps of
the
Table Mesa area?
David
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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95498 From: Mitch Woodward <bigwood@c...>
Date: Wed Dec 10, 2003 9:09pm
Subject: Re: Crown King
Gee, it's not a jeep, it probably can't make it over a speedbump..........
Avoiding rant.
Mitch
----- Original Message -----
From: "jeff misischia" <g4mannn@y...>
To: "Jim" <jishby@m...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Crown King
> i wouldnt try...........
> --- Jim <jishby@m...> wrote:
> > Can anyone who has run the backway to Crown King
> > lately, tell me if
> > you can get a full size longbed p/u thru. Thanks in
> > advance,
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
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>
>
95499 From: Kevin Gallagher <GIThunder81@c...>
Date: Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:01pm
Subject: RE: Crown King
Yeah it shouldn't be a problem as long as it has a lift
Kevin Gallagher
"Make it Fit!"
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim [mailto:jishby@m...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 2:25 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Crown King
Can anyone who has run the backway to Crown King lately, tell me if
you can get a full size longbed p/u thru. Thanks in advance,
Jim
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
95500 From: Chris Kilcullen <whoozey1953@y...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:16am
Subject: Re: Re: Bent Dana 30 Axle, need truss?
Like the nukes "babied" the bikini atolls! :)
Frank BadAZXJ <BadAZXJ@h...> wrote:mine bent too...and I baby my jeep :P
Frank
groups.msn.com/badazxj
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Chris Kilcullen
wrote:
> Have you ever "jumped" your Jeep? The D30 is not prone to bending
unless it has been subjected to this type of abuse. If you bought it
used, no telling what the previous owner subjected it to.
>
>
> clintltravis wrote:
> While having my fornt ARB seal replaced, Four Wheelers Supply
> discovered that my front axle tube (Dana 30) on the drivers side is
> bent. Four Wheelers Supply send it out and it is currently being
> straitened.
>
> From my research, this does not seem to be a real common problem. I
> was wondering if anyone else has had this problem and if there is a
> truss to keep it from happeing. Seems like there are plenty truss
for
> the rear axle (Dana 35) but nothing desent for a Dana 30. I am
> thinking I may have to make a custom truss and weld it on.
>
> Any comments welcome.
>
> Clint
> 97 TJ Sahara
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing
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95501 From: Patrick Dicks <Patandlida@a...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:25am
Subject: Re: Crown King
I ran the trail about two weeks ago. I have been running it for years
and several people in my group commented that it is the worst they
have seen it in a while. I personally didn't think it was that bad
but I was in a new rig that is more capable than the old one I used
to use. Anyhow.....I would not try it if you are not lifted (I am
assuming that your truck is 4wd). It was interesting to say the least
to watch my buddy in his Toyota PU go over the stairstep. The
stairstep is not that bad but the road just past the stairstep is
deteriorating and slopes badly. Its a challenge for long wheelbase
vehicles.
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <jishby@m...> wrote:
> Can anyone who has run the backway to Crown King lately, tell me if
> you can get a full size longbed p/u thru. Thanks in advance,
>
> Jim
95502 From: Mark Booth <mjb675@c...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:34am
Subject: T18a
Let me know if your T18a is available I'll take it.
Thanks, Mark
480-357-1250 or email
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
95503 From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:28am
Subject: Re: table mesa maps
While I appreciate the need to identify trails now, having to wait
until the next RMP to gain new trails is unacceptable. At almost
every BLM planning meeting I have attended, I have requested that the
plan include an official, documented process by which new trails can
be opened. Unfortunately, I think my comments have fallen on deaf
ears. BLM folks just sort of nod their heads. And fellow OHV
enthusiasts have failed to support this idea.
I don't get it. Does everyone think they'll be content running the
same trails over and over and over? Does nobody want the option to
find and open new trails to run? This seems so obvious to me yet
nobody says anything about it. Maybe they have and I simply haven't
witnessed it. But I doubt it.
-Roger
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee McCullen" <mccullen@c...>
wrote:
> <snip>
> The final access maps will not show anything we don't identify
> NOW........ if groups are doing trails (specifically extreme rock
> crawling) and not identifying them now we will not have them
> available to us until the next RMP which will most likely be 10-15
> years from now. If we're caught on any trails not on the access
> maps we will be dealt hefty fines. We MUST identify what we're
> doing.
>
> Sandee
95504 From: Singleton, Laura <laura_singleton@t...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:57am
Subject: RE: New file uploaded to az_vjc
Help!! How can I stop all the emails from coming through? They are coming
to my work address and are going to get me into trouble. Do I have to do it
from the yahoo site or from the AZVJC home page?
Laura Singleton
480 688 8047
480 350 8284-wk
-----Original Message-----
From: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 7:53 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] New file uploaded to az_vjc
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the az_vjc
group.
File : /RTI Scores.xls
Uploaded by : hackle_2001 <hackle@q...>
Description : Ramp Scores 12-07-03
You can access this file at the URL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/az_vjc/files/RTI%20Scores.xls
To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
Regards,
hackle_2001 <hackle@q...>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
95505 From: B.Robson <azguy85018@y...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:02am
Subject: Re: Crown King
The road to Crown King has deteriorated. I have a picture taken in
1969 of a lady in her 1965 Ford Fairlane at the Oro Belle mine
remains, and another reference to the road in the late 70's that
suggests the road is now only passable with a minimum of a "2wd pick
up with good shock absorbers".
I was on the road about a month ago and saw a lifted, long bed Ford
truck and a beat up old Suburban make it through.
If you decide to go you will enjoy it; it's a nice trip with great
views.
Bruce
83 CJ-7
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Dicks" <Patandlida@a...>
wrote:
> I ran the trail about two weeks ago. I have been running it for
years
> and several people in my group commented that it is the worst they
> have seen it in a while. I personally didn't think it was that bad
> but I was in a new rig that is more capable than the old one I used
> to use. Anyhow.....I would not try it if you are not lifted (I am
> assuming that your truck is 4wd). It was interesting to say the
least
> to watch my buddy in his Toyota PU go over the stairstep. The
> stairstep is not that bad but the road just past the stairstep is
> deteriorating and slopes badly. Its a challenge for long wheelbase
> vehicles.
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <jishby@m...> wrote:
> > Can anyone who has run the backway to Crown King lately, tell me
if
> > you can get a full size longbed p/u thru. Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Jim
95506 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:29am
Subject: RE: Re: table mesa maps
Roger is correct.....I've attended a number of meetings where it was stated
to the BLM that a process needs to be included in the RMP so that changes in
the trail inventory can be accommodated without a new RMP being required.
Settling for anything less is bull****, pure and simple!
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: tomas2691 [mailto:tomasr@a...]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 8:29 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: table mesa maps
While I appreciate the need to identify trails now, having to wait
until the next RMP to gain new trails is unacceptable. At almost
every BLM planning meeting I have attended, I have requested that the
plan include an official, documented process by which new trails can
be opened. Unfortunately, I think my comments have fallen on deaf
ears. BLM folks just sort of nod their heads. And fellow OHV
enthusiasts have failed to support this idea.
I don't get it. Does everyone think they'll be content running the
same trails over and over and over? Does nobody want the option to
find and open new trails to run? This seems so obvious to me yet
nobody says anything about it. Maybe they have and I simply haven't
witnessed it. But I doubt it.
-Roger
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee McCullen" <mccullen@c...>
wrote:
> <snip>
> The final access maps will not show anything we don't identify
> NOW........ if groups are doing trails (specifically extreme rock
> crawling) and not identifying them now we will not have them
> available to us until the next RMP which will most likely be 10-15
> years from now. If we're caught on any trails not on the access
> maps we will be dealt hefty fines. We MUST identify what we're
> doing.
>
> Sandee
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
95507 From: Kevin & Kelly <kkhop@j...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:13am
Subject: Hunter Off Road BBQ Pic's
I posted this earlier but I guess it didn't work
Not to many Pic's but this is what we took.
Had a great time.
http://community.webshots.com/album/104088529AFFCQy
95508 From: Kevin & Kelly <kkhop@j...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:49am
Subject: Hunter Off Road BBQ Pic's
Just a few pictures at the BBQ.
http://community.webshots.com/album/104088529AFFCQy
95509 From: Robert Holmes <flamable_liquid@h...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:30am
Subject: RE: Re: table mesa maps
I would agree as well but personally i have no idea how to support this
issue, what would you need the "common man" to do. letter time, attedee
time. just some curiousity because i know that the same trails for 15 years
will get old. Im sure lots of people are behind you guys but simply dont
know where to put their support. I know I am one.
~Robert
>From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
>To: "'tomas2691'" <tomasr@a...>, az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: table mesa maps
>Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:29:07 -0700
>
>Roger is correct.....I've attended a number of meetings where it was stated
>to the BLM that a process needs to be included in the RMP so that changes
>in
>the trail inventory can be accommodated without a new RMP being required.
>
>Settling for anything less is bull****, pure and simple!
>
>Stu
>
>
>Stu Olson
>www.stu-offroad.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: tomas2691 [mailto:tomasr@a...]
>Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 8:29 AM
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Re: table mesa maps
>
>While I appreciate the need to identify trails now, having to wait
>until the next RMP to gain new trails is unacceptable. At almost
>every BLM planning meeting I have attended, I have requested that the
>plan include an official, documented process by which new trails can
>be opened. Unfortunately, I think my comments have fallen on deaf
>ears. BLM folks just sort of nod their heads. And fellow OHV
>enthusiasts have failed to support this idea.
>
>I don't get it. Does everyone think they'll be content running the
>same trails over and over and over? Does nobody want the option to
>find and open new trails to run? This seems so obvious to me yet
>nobody says anything about it. Maybe they have and I simply haven't
>witnessed it. But I doubt it.
>
>-Roger
>
>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee McCullen" <mccullen@c...>
>wrote:
> > <snip>
> > The final access maps will not show anything we don't identify
> > NOW........ if groups are doing trails (specifically extreme rock
> > crawling) and not identifying them now we will not have them
> > available to us until the next RMP which will most likely be 10-15
> > years from now. If we're caught on any trails not on the access
> > maps we will be dealt hefty fines. We MUST identify what we're
> > doing.
> >
> > Sandee
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________ _______________
Take advantage of our best MSN Dial-up offer of the year — six months
@$9.95/month. Sign up now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup
95510 From: Bill Hooven <whooven@c...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:26am
Subject: Re: Roll Bar
Try AMC 4x4 Salvage (though modern sport bars are in high demand):
http://vanity.qwestdex.com/amc4x4salvage/Page1.html
There are also a few other local AZ salvage yards on this page:
http://www.jeepsonly.com/Shopping/Salvage/
Bill Hooven
--------------
Bill - Jeeps Only
http://www.jeepsonly.com
A Yahoo-style directory/search engine of links for Jeeps only
--------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "rolled1000" <rolled1@c...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:36 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Roll Bar
> I'm in need of a stock roll bar for a 99 TJ. Anyone know where I can
> pick one up?
> TIA
> Terry
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
95511 From: Sharky <sharxjeep@c...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:24am
Subject: [OT] For Sale...
If anyone needs alight grey back seat for a TJ I have one for sale
as well as a 9" rear end.
Sharky
623-869-6030
95512 From: Bryan Loveless <Bryan.Loveless@n...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:32am
Subject: RE: [OT] For Sale...
Is that 9 inches across or out?
Sounds like a personal problem.
:)
--Bryan
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:24:20 -0000
From: "Sharky" <sharxjeep@c...>
Subject: [OT] For Sale...
If anyone needs alight grey back seat for a TJ I have one for sale
as well as a 9" rear end.
Sharky
....
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
95513 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:48am
Subject: RE: Re: table mesa maps
Roger, Don't get your tail feathers ruffled...... there is a way to
identify "new" trails prior to a new RMP but if the trails are not
identified now they have to go through an "amendment" process that is
almost as timely as the RMP itself. ... There will NEVER be a way to
simply go do as we please. There never has been but the managers simply
didn't give a fig about motorized recreation when the numbers were small
enough it didn't matter. Grazing was the only thing the agencies cared
about....... probably because it was what "brought in the money"
whereas recreation brings in very little or none at all. Federal law
states (National Environment Policy Act) they have to consider all
resources and protect from damage if possible. If we identify a trail we
would like to open and they have time they may start the NEPA study then
or we'd have to wait until such time they "feel like doing it" or "have
the resources/money etc" to do an environmental evaluation on
it......... i.e. ... Tucson was asked this past year to allow us to
"connect" two trails to make a loop to enable us to by-pass crossing
private property. 1/8 - 1/4 mile of open crossing. After doing an
evaluation Tucson came back to us stating it would "cost US $8,000.00 -
$10,000.00 for them to do the engineering drawings and watershed
studies." In nice terms I told him he was "full of s**t"..........
(well, maybe not so nice of terms!) This is the kinds of things they
will try if we don't GET INVOLVED. I have since found out this
"connection" is on State Trust Land and the land dept. has ok'd opening
this stretch under the thought "it was a good way to mitigate a problem
for both sides"............. They simply took a look at the area to
ensure there wasn't any cultural site and it was a go. Most BLM Field
offices (six) feel this same way......... they will work with us in any
way possible but Tucson has different thoughts. The problem however, is
they are truly NOT doing anything illegal or outside the
regulations........ they simply blow the regs out of proportion.
Phoenix Field Office has been very open about identifying trails
"possibly wanting to do in the future" and have been very open about the
trails that are on the ground today. They KNOW most may not have been
trails in 1988 when the RMP was done but they are truly working with us
to develop a trail plan acceptable to all........ Tucson, however, does
not think the same way. That's why Jawbreaker is closed..... under
appeal........ and they have plans to "designate closed" any trail "they
feel may not have been used in 1988". This is the kind of attitude we
MUST fight and it takes bodies (RED SHIRTS) to do so..............
Your comments have not fallen on deaf ears but just because we request
something does not necessarily mean we'll get our way........ this
process is very new to the BLM, and we need to keep "sitting at the
table and TALKING". The land management agencies have never "talked" to
anyone before. They simply did as they felt best............. or
easiest.
We ALL know "what is on the ground now or identified on maps" is NOT
going to be acceptable for the next 15 years......... identical to the
situation today from the 1988 RMP, but we need to at least "try" and
work with the agencies.
4-wheelers have a very good reputation with the agencies (excluding
Tucson) right now...... we need to keep it that way.
You are absolutely correct in seeing the apathy from the OHV
users....... one would think seeing what California has lost would open
some eyes here in Arizona but obviously not. Our recreationists simply
feel "they can't do this" or "simply don't care" or "someone else will
do it..... I don't have time, or am too tired" or some such excuse but
it will come back to haunt all of us with time......... and we WILL
lose as a result.
Don't give up........... BLM IS listening..........
Sandee
-----Original Message-----
From: tomas2691 [mailto:tomasr@a...]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 8:29 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: table mesa maps
While I appreciate the need to identify trails now, having to wait
until the next RMP to gain new trails is unacceptable. At almost
every BLM planning meeting I have attended, I have requested that the
plan include an official, documented process by which new trails can
be opened. Unfortunately, I think my comments have fallen on deaf
ears. BLM folks just sort of nod their heads. And fellow OHV
enthusiasts have failed to support this idea.
I don't get it. Does everyone think they'll be content running the
same trails over and over and over? Does nobody want the option to
find and open new trails to run? This seems so obvious to me yet
nobody says anything about it. Maybe they have and I simply haven't
witnessed it. But I doubt it.
-Roger
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee McCullen" <mccullen@c...>
wrote:
> <snip>
> The final access maps will not show anything we don't identify
> NOW........ if groups are doing trails (specifically extreme rock
> crawling) and not identifying them now we will not have them
> available to us until the next RMP which will most likely be 10-15
> years from now. If we're caught on any trails not on the access
> maps we will be dealt hefty fines. We MUST identify what we're
> doing.
>
> Sandee
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
95514 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:47am
Subject: [Tech] '01 TJ - unknown vibration
I use my TJ mostly as a daily driver, lately when i jump on the freeway and drive to where i'm going. As I come of the off ramp and slow down, there's a vibration whenever I creap forword. I seems like a gear or u joint is binding somewhere. And after that it never does it until i get back on the freeway and do the same thing. Has anyone experienced this, please help it's starting to bother me.
Russ Dougherty
95515 From: Chris <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 0:06pm
Subject: Re: [OT] For Sale...
9" Ring and Pinion, guess that means Sharky's Ring is a 9"
opening...definatly a personal problem...LOL
Chris
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Bryan Loveless <Bryan.Loveless@n...>
wrote:
> Is that 9 inches across or out?
> Sounds like a personal problem.
>
> :)
>
> --Bryan
>
__________________________________________________ ___________________
___
>
__________________________________________________ ___________________
___
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:24:20 -0000
> From: "Sharky" <sharxjeep@c...>
> Subject: [OT] For Sale...
>
> If anyone needs alight grey back seat for a TJ I have one for
sale
> as well as a 9" rear end.
>
> Sharky
> ....
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________ ___________________
___
>
__________________________________________________ ___________________
___
95516 From: Chris Lindsey <azrubi@a...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:58am
Subject: Re: New Wrangler wheelbase ???
Hi,
I was talking to the dealership, yesterday. And they said it's due out
in April and will be 18" longer and a Rubicon! Unfortunately, I can't
wait that long to replace mine. :-(
Take care,
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: "Linda" <minihummer@w...>
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 15:03:34 -0000
Subject: [az_vjc] New Wrangler wheelbase ???
> I just heard that the redesigned Wrangler model (2005?) will have its
> wheelbase stretched about 15". Does anyone have more information?
>
> Thanks,
> Linda
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
95517 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:06am
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to az_vjc
Do it on the Yahoo site
Chris
On Dec 11, 2003, at 8:57 AM, Singleton, Laura wrote:
> Help!! How can I stop all the emails from coming through? They are
> coming
> to my work address and are going to get me into trouble. Do I have to
> do it
> from the yahoo site or from the AZVJC home page?
>
> Laura Singleton
> 480 688 8047
> 480 350 8284-wk
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com]
> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 7:53 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] New file uploaded to az_vjc
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the az_vjc
> group.
>
> File : /RTI Scores.xls
> Uploaded by : hackle_2001 <hackle@q...>
> Description : Ramp Scores 12-07-03
>
> You can access this file at the URL
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/az_vjc/files/RTI%20Scores.xls
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit
>
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> hackle_2001 <hackle@q...>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
95518 From: Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:27pm
Subject: Distributor oil leak
Recently, my 258 has developed an oil leak from where the distributor
mounts to the block. I replaced the small gasket (using high heat
sealant on the block side) but it's still leaking pretty good.
Obviously, you can't seal the top side as the distributor needs to
turn for timing. Assuming my gasket seal is OK, is there any other
way for oil to escape here? Can it come up through the shaft itself?
The distibutor is old and it wouldn't surprise me if it's toast.
Might be a good reason to upgrade the ignition system :)
Any advice greatly appreciated.
Matt
K7MTO
95519 From: Jim <jishby@m...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 0:03pm
Subject: Thanks on Crown King
Thanks for all the info. I'll pass it on to my co-worker.
Jim
97 TJ locked & lifted.
95520 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:57am
Subject: RE: Re: table mesa maps
We can ALL participate in this process. By showing to the meetings when
they're posted and "speaking for your side" has and will continue to,
help us all.
Phoenix Field Office (BLM) took a very innovative step in doing the RMP
(Resource Management Plan). From day one they have been to the local
communities, talked with the recreationists, environmentalists, local
businesses etc........ they have hosted the scoping meetings in areas
like Buckeye; Wickenburg; Black Canyon City; Prescott; Mayer; and
Phoenix. This enabled EVERYONE the opportunity to attend meetings and
learn what BLM are doing and how they are making plans for each local
area.
In lieu of "open house" meetings where we go in and have to talk "one to
one" and most times no one knows the issues well enough to ask the
question or understand the answer.......... PFO has allowed EVERYONE to
speak after they give their presentation of what they have done and/or
where they feel the plans need to go.
This latest scoping meeting (a month ago) they presented 4
alternatives........ normally the agencies ask to "pick" an
alternative. NOT GOOD. PFO has specifically asked us to NOT pick an
alternative. They asked each representative group (4x4; Wilderness;
Sierra Club; Equestrian; cultural; etc........ to set a meeting and
review everything individually to enable the BLM to put together a
"Preferred Alternative" being based on everyones input.
RED SHIRTS showing at meetings has been very powerful.......... they
are now allowing us to submit suggestions/changes/proposals etc on
behalf of all of us. i.e.: in the past each individual has had to
submit their own letters which are then "counted" as "for or against" a
plan or issue. This time PFO allowed us to submit suggestions /
proposals on behalf of all OHV. This was only done because they have
seen the RED SHIRTS at meetings and felt there was support from within.
To make a long story short.............. simply SHOW at these meetings
when they are announced or WRITE a letter when a letter notice goes out.
Just the show of "being involved" shows interest. If no one shows, or
no one writes letters, they simply take the path of least resistance
(via the GREEN path) because they feel the OHV guys don't care.
Sandee
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Holmes [mailto:flamable_liquid@h...]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 10:31 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: table mesa maps
I would agree as well but personally i have no idea how to support this
issue, what would you need the "common man" to do. letter time, attedee
time. just some curiousity because i know that the same trails for 15
years
will get old. Im sure lots of people are behind you guys but simply dont
know where to put their support. I know I am one.
~Robert
>From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
>To: "'tomas2691'" <tomasr@a...>, az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: table mesa maps
>Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:29:07 -0700
>
>Roger is correct.....I've attended a number of meetings where it was
stated
>to the BLM that a process needs to be included in the RMP so that
changes
>in
>the trail inventory can be accommodated without a new RMP being
required.
>
>Settling for anything less is bull****, pure and simple!
>
>Stu
>
>
>Stu Olson
>www.stu-offroad.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: tomas2691 [mailto:tomasr@a...]
>Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 8:29 AM
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Re: table mesa maps
>
>While I appreciate the need to identify trails now, having to wait
>until the next RMP to gain new trails is unacceptable. At almost
>every BLM planning meeting I have attended, I have requested that the
>plan include an official, documented process by which new trails can
>be opened. Unfortunately, I think my comments have fallen on deaf
>ears. BLM folks just sort of nod their heads. And fellow OHV
>enthusiasts have failed to support this idea.
>
>I don't get it. Does everyone think they'll be content running the
>same trails over and over and over? Does nobody want the option to
>find and open new trails to run? This seems so obvious to me yet
>nobody says anything about it. Maybe they have and I simply haven't
>witnessed it. But I doubt it.
>
>-Roger
>
>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee McCullen" <mccullen@c...>
>wrote:
> > <snip>
> > The final access maps will not show anything we don't identify
> > NOW........ if groups are doing trails (specifically extreme rock
> > crawling) and not identifying them now we will not have them
> > available to us until the next RMP which will most likely be 10-15
> > years from now. If we're caught on any trails not on the access
> > maps we will be dealt hefty fines. We MUST identify what we're
> > doing.
> >
> > Sandee
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________ _______________
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95521 From: rolled1000 <rolled1@c...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 4:05pm
Subject: Re: Roll Bar
Thanks to everyone that replied. I should be able to find one (or 50
LOL) now
Terry
99 TJ
03 KJ
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Hooven" <whooven@c...> wrote:
> Try AMC 4x4 Salvage (though modern sport bars are in high demand):
> http://vanity.qwestdex.com/amc4x4salvage/Page1.html
>
> There are also a few other local AZ salvage yards on this page:
>
> http://www.jeepsonly.com/Shopping/Salvage/
>
> Bill Hooven
>
> --------------
> Bill - Jeeps Only
> http://www.jeepsonly.com
> A Yahoo-style directory/search engine of links for Jeeps only
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rolled1000" <rolled1@c...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:36 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Roll Bar
>
>
> > I'm in need of a stock roll bar for a 99 TJ. Anyone know where I can
> > pick one up?
> > TIA
> > Terry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
95497 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Wed Dec 10, 2003 9:51pm
Subject: RE: table mesa maps
The only agency that has any maps of the inventory of Table Mesa is the
Phoenix BLM Field Office on 7th Ave and Deer Valley Rd.
There are "inventory" maps available for determining "routes on the
ground" but there are not yet official access maps available. I'm not
sure you can still get an inventory map so you may have to share with
someone that has one..........
The "inventory" maps of Florence Junction will be available at the MGCP
meeting tomorrow night.......... again, these are only showing what's
"on the ground". The official access maps won't be available for about
a year.
The final access maps will not show anything we don't identify
NOW........ if groups are doing trails (specifically extreme rock
crawling) and not identifying them now we will not have them available
to us until the next RMP which will most likely be 10-15 years from now.
If we're caught on any trails not on the access maps we will be dealt
hefty fines. We MUST identify what we're doing.
Sandee
-----Original Message-----
From: David Cole [mailto:lists@o...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 10:36 PM
To: Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Subject: [az_vjc] table mesa maps
Is there a state or BLM office in the East Valley that contains maps of
the
Table Mesa area?
David
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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95498 From: Mitch Woodward <bigwood@c...>
Date: Wed Dec 10, 2003 9:09pm
Subject: Re: Crown King
Gee, it's not a jeep, it probably can't make it over a speedbump..........
Avoiding rant.
Mitch
----- Original Message -----
From: "jeff misischia" <g4mannn@y...>
To: "Jim" <jishby@m...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Crown King
> i wouldnt try...........
> --- Jim <jishby@m...> wrote:
> > Can anyone who has run the backway to Crown King
> > lately, tell me if
> > you can get a full size longbed p/u thru. Thanks in
> > advance,
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
> http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
95499 From: Kevin Gallagher <GIThunder81@c...>
Date: Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:01pm
Subject: RE: Crown King
Yeah it shouldn't be a problem as long as it has a lift
Kevin Gallagher
"Make it Fit!"
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim [mailto:jishby@m...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 2:25 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Crown King
Can anyone who has run the backway to Crown King lately, tell me if
you can get a full size longbed p/u thru. Thanks in advance,
Jim
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
95500 From: Chris Kilcullen <whoozey1953@y...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:16am
Subject: Re: Re: Bent Dana 30 Axle, need truss?
Like the nukes "babied" the bikini atolls! :)
Frank BadAZXJ <BadAZXJ@h...> wrote:mine bent too...and I baby my jeep :P
Frank
groups.msn.com/badazxj
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Chris Kilcullen
wrote:
> Have you ever "jumped" your Jeep? The D30 is not prone to bending
unless it has been subjected to this type of abuse. If you bought it
used, no telling what the previous owner subjected it to.
>
>
> clintltravis wrote:
> While having my fornt ARB seal replaced, Four Wheelers Supply
> discovered that my front axle tube (Dana 30) on the drivers side is
> bent. Four Wheelers Supply send it out and it is currently being
> straitened.
>
> From my research, this does not seem to be a real common problem. I
> was wondering if anyone else has had this problem and if there is a
> truss to keep it from happeing. Seems like there are plenty truss
for
> the rear axle (Dana 35) but nothing desent for a Dana 30. I am
> thinking I may have to make a custom truss and weld it on.
>
> Any comments welcome.
>
> Clint
> 97 TJ Sahara
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
---------------------------------
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New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
95501 From: Patrick Dicks <Patandlida@a...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:25am
Subject: Re: Crown King
I ran the trail about two weeks ago. I have been running it for years
and several people in my group commented that it is the worst they
have seen it in a while. I personally didn't think it was that bad
but I was in a new rig that is more capable than the old one I used
to use. Anyhow.....I would not try it if you are not lifted (I am
assuming that your truck is 4wd). It was interesting to say the least
to watch my buddy in his Toyota PU go over the stairstep. The
stairstep is not that bad but the road just past the stairstep is
deteriorating and slopes badly. Its a challenge for long wheelbase
vehicles.
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <jishby@m...> wrote:
> Can anyone who has run the backway to Crown King lately, tell me if
> you can get a full size longbed p/u thru. Thanks in advance,
>
> Jim
95502 From: Mark Booth <mjb675@c...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:34am
Subject: T18a
Let me know if your T18a is available I'll take it.
Thanks, Mark
480-357-1250 or email
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
95503 From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:28am
Subject: Re: table mesa maps
While I appreciate the need to identify trails now, having to wait
until the next RMP to gain new trails is unacceptable. At almost
every BLM planning meeting I have attended, I have requested that the
plan include an official, documented process by which new trails can
be opened. Unfortunately, I think my comments have fallen on deaf
ears. BLM folks just sort of nod their heads. And fellow OHV
enthusiasts have failed to support this idea.
I don't get it. Does everyone think they'll be content running the
same trails over and over and over? Does nobody want the option to
find and open new trails to run? This seems so obvious to me yet
nobody says anything about it. Maybe they have and I simply haven't
witnessed it. But I doubt it.
-Roger
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee McCullen" <mccullen@c...>
wrote:
> <snip>
> The final access maps will not show anything we don't identify
> NOW........ if groups are doing trails (specifically extreme rock
> crawling) and not identifying them now we will not have them
> available to us until the next RMP which will most likely be 10-15
> years from now. If we're caught on any trails not on the access
> maps we will be dealt hefty fines. We MUST identify what we're
> doing.
>
> Sandee
95504 From: Singleton, Laura <laura_singleton@t...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:57am
Subject: RE: New file uploaded to az_vjc
Help!! How can I stop all the emails from coming through? They are coming
to my work address and are going to get me into trouble. Do I have to do it
from the yahoo site or from the AZVJC home page?
Laura Singleton
480 688 8047
480 350 8284-wk
-----Original Message-----
From: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 7:53 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] New file uploaded to az_vjc
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the az_vjc
group.
File : /RTI Scores.xls
Uploaded by : hackle_2001 <hackle@q...>
Description : Ramp Scores 12-07-03
You can access this file at the URL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/az_vjc/files/RTI%20Scores.xls
To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
Regards,
hackle_2001 <hackle@q...>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
95505 From: B.Robson <azguy85018@y...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:02am
Subject: Re: Crown King
The road to Crown King has deteriorated. I have a picture taken in
1969 of a lady in her 1965 Ford Fairlane at the Oro Belle mine
remains, and another reference to the road in the late 70's that
suggests the road is now only passable with a minimum of a "2wd pick
up with good shock absorbers".
I was on the road about a month ago and saw a lifted, long bed Ford
truck and a beat up old Suburban make it through.
If you decide to go you will enjoy it; it's a nice trip with great
views.
Bruce
83 CJ-7
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Dicks" <Patandlida@a...>
wrote:
> I ran the trail about two weeks ago. I have been running it for
years
> and several people in my group commented that it is the worst they
> have seen it in a while. I personally didn't think it was that bad
> but I was in a new rig that is more capable than the old one I used
> to use. Anyhow.....I would not try it if you are not lifted (I am
> assuming that your truck is 4wd). It was interesting to say the
least
> to watch my buddy in his Toyota PU go over the stairstep. The
> stairstep is not that bad but the road just past the stairstep is
> deteriorating and slopes badly. Its a challenge for long wheelbase
> vehicles.
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <jishby@m...> wrote:
> > Can anyone who has run the backway to Crown King lately, tell me
if
> > you can get a full size longbed p/u thru. Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Jim
95506 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:29am
Subject: RE: Re: table mesa maps
Roger is correct.....I've attended a number of meetings where it was stated
to the BLM that a process needs to be included in the RMP so that changes in
the trail inventory can be accommodated without a new RMP being required.
Settling for anything less is bull****, pure and simple!
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: tomas2691 [mailto:tomasr@a...]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 8:29 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: table mesa maps
While I appreciate the need to identify trails now, having to wait
until the next RMP to gain new trails is unacceptable. At almost
every BLM planning meeting I have attended, I have requested that the
plan include an official, documented process by which new trails can
be opened. Unfortunately, I think my comments have fallen on deaf
ears. BLM folks just sort of nod their heads. And fellow OHV
enthusiasts have failed to support this idea.
I don't get it. Does everyone think they'll be content running the
same trails over and over and over? Does nobody want the option to
find and open new trails to run? This seems so obvious to me yet
nobody says anything about it. Maybe they have and I simply haven't
witnessed it. But I doubt it.
-Roger
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee McCullen" <mccullen@c...>
wrote:
> <snip>
> The final access maps will not show anything we don't identify
> NOW........ if groups are doing trails (specifically extreme rock
> crawling) and not identifying them now we will not have them
> available to us until the next RMP which will most likely be 10-15
> years from now. If we're caught on any trails not on the access
> maps we will be dealt hefty fines. We MUST identify what we're
> doing.
>
> Sandee
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
95507 From: Kevin & Kelly <kkhop@j...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:13am
Subject: Hunter Off Road BBQ Pic's
I posted this earlier but I guess it didn't work
Not to many Pic's but this is what we took.
Had a great time.
http://community.webshots.com/album/104088529AFFCQy
95508 From: Kevin & Kelly <kkhop@j...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:49am
Subject: Hunter Off Road BBQ Pic's
Just a few pictures at the BBQ.
http://community.webshots.com/album/104088529AFFCQy
95509 From: Robert Holmes <flamable_liquid@h...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:30am
Subject: RE: Re: table mesa maps
I would agree as well but personally i have no idea how to support this
issue, what would you need the "common man" to do. letter time, attedee
time. just some curiousity because i know that the same trails for 15 years
will get old. Im sure lots of people are behind you guys but simply dont
know where to put their support. I know I am one.
~Robert
>From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
>To: "'tomas2691'" <tomasr@a...>, az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: table mesa maps
>Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:29:07 -0700
>
>Roger is correct.....I've attended a number of meetings where it was stated
>to the BLM that a process needs to be included in the RMP so that changes
>in
>the trail inventory can be accommodated without a new RMP being required.
>
>Settling for anything less is bull****, pure and simple!
>
>Stu
>
>
>Stu Olson
>www.stu-offroad.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: tomas2691 [mailto:tomasr@a...]
>Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 8:29 AM
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Re: table mesa maps
>
>While I appreciate the need to identify trails now, having to wait
>until the next RMP to gain new trails is unacceptable. At almost
>every BLM planning meeting I have attended, I have requested that the
>plan include an official, documented process by which new trails can
>be opened. Unfortunately, I think my comments have fallen on deaf
>ears. BLM folks just sort of nod their heads. And fellow OHV
>enthusiasts have failed to support this idea.
>
>I don't get it. Does everyone think they'll be content running the
>same trails over and over and over? Does nobody want the option to
>find and open new trails to run? This seems so obvious to me yet
>nobody says anything about it. Maybe they have and I simply haven't
>witnessed it. But I doubt it.
>
>-Roger
>
>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee McCullen" <mccullen@c...>
>wrote:
> > <snip>
> > The final access maps will not show anything we don't identify
> > NOW........ if groups are doing trails (specifically extreme rock
> > crawling) and not identifying them now we will not have them
> > available to us until the next RMP which will most likely be 10-15
> > years from now. If we're caught on any trails not on the access
> > maps we will be dealt hefty fines. We MUST identify what we're
> > doing.
> >
> > Sandee
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________ _______________
Take advantage of our best MSN Dial-up offer of the year — six months
@$9.95/month. Sign up now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup
95510 From: Bill Hooven <whooven@c...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:26am
Subject: Re: Roll Bar
Try AMC 4x4 Salvage (though modern sport bars are in high demand):
http://vanity.qwestdex.com/amc4x4salvage/Page1.html
There are also a few other local AZ salvage yards on this page:
http://www.jeepsonly.com/Shopping/Salvage/
Bill Hooven
--------------
Bill - Jeeps Only
http://www.jeepsonly.com
A Yahoo-style directory/search engine of links for Jeeps only
--------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "rolled1000" <rolled1@c...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:36 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Roll Bar
> I'm in need of a stock roll bar for a 99 TJ. Anyone know where I can
> pick one up?
> TIA
> Terry
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
95511 From: Sharky <sharxjeep@c...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:24am
Subject: [OT] For Sale...
If anyone needs alight grey back seat for a TJ I have one for sale
as well as a 9" rear end.
Sharky
623-869-6030
95512 From: Bryan Loveless <Bryan.Loveless@n...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:32am
Subject: RE: [OT] For Sale...
Is that 9 inches across or out?
Sounds like a personal problem.
:)
--Bryan
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:24:20 -0000
From: "Sharky" <sharxjeep@c...>
Subject: [OT] For Sale...
If anyone needs alight grey back seat for a TJ I have one for sale
as well as a 9" rear end.
Sharky
....
__________________________________________________ ______________________
__________________________________________________ ______________________
95513 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:48am
Subject: RE: Re: table mesa maps
Roger, Don't get your tail feathers ruffled...... there is a way to
identify "new" trails prior to a new RMP but if the trails are not
identified now they have to go through an "amendment" process that is
almost as timely as the RMP itself. ... There will NEVER be a way to
simply go do as we please. There never has been but the managers simply
didn't give a fig about motorized recreation when the numbers were small
enough it didn't matter. Grazing was the only thing the agencies cared
about....... probably because it was what "brought in the money"
whereas recreation brings in very little or none at all. Federal law
states (National Environment Policy Act) they have to consider all
resources and protect from damage if possible. If we identify a trail we
would like to open and they have time they may start the NEPA study then
or we'd have to wait until such time they "feel like doing it" or "have
the resources/money etc" to do an environmental evaluation on
it......... i.e. ... Tucson was asked this past year to allow us to
"connect" two trails to make a loop to enable us to by-pass crossing
private property. 1/8 - 1/4 mile of open crossing. After doing an
evaluation Tucson came back to us stating it would "cost US $8,000.00 -
$10,000.00 for them to do the engineering drawings and watershed
studies." In nice terms I told him he was "full of s**t"..........
(well, maybe not so nice of terms!) This is the kinds of things they
will try if we don't GET INVOLVED. I have since found out this
"connection" is on State Trust Land and the land dept. has ok'd opening
this stretch under the thought "it was a good way to mitigate a problem
for both sides"............. They simply took a look at the area to
ensure there wasn't any cultural site and it was a go. Most BLM Field
offices (six) feel this same way......... they will work with us in any
way possible but Tucson has different thoughts. The problem however, is
they are truly NOT doing anything illegal or outside the
regulations........ they simply blow the regs out of proportion.
Phoenix Field Office has been very open about identifying trails
"possibly wanting to do in the future" and have been very open about the
trails that are on the ground today. They KNOW most may not have been
trails in 1988 when the RMP was done but they are truly working with us
to develop a trail plan acceptable to all........ Tucson, however, does
not think the same way. That's why Jawbreaker is closed..... under
appeal........ and they have plans to "designate closed" any trail "they
feel may not have been used in 1988". This is the kind of attitude we
MUST fight and it takes bodies (RED SHIRTS) to do so..............
Your comments have not fallen on deaf ears but just because we request
something does not necessarily mean we'll get our way........ this
process is very new to the BLM, and we need to keep "sitting at the
table and TALKING". The land management agencies have never "talked" to
anyone before. They simply did as they felt best............. or
easiest.
We ALL know "what is on the ground now or identified on maps" is NOT
going to be acceptable for the next 15 years......... identical to the
situation today from the 1988 RMP, but we need to at least "try" and
work with the agencies.
4-wheelers have a very good reputation with the agencies (excluding
Tucson) right now...... we need to keep it that way.
You are absolutely correct in seeing the apathy from the OHV
users....... one would think seeing what California has lost would open
some eyes here in Arizona but obviously not. Our recreationists simply
feel "they can't do this" or "simply don't care" or "someone else will
do it..... I don't have time, or am too tired" or some such excuse but
it will come back to haunt all of us with time......... and we WILL
lose as a result.
Don't give up........... BLM IS listening..........
Sandee
-----Original Message-----
From: tomas2691 [mailto:tomasr@a...]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 8:29 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: table mesa maps
While I appreciate the need to identify trails now, having to wait
until the next RMP to gain new trails is unacceptable. At almost
every BLM planning meeting I have attended, I have requested that the
plan include an official, documented process by which new trails can
be opened. Unfortunately, I think my comments have fallen on deaf
ears. BLM folks just sort of nod their heads. And fellow OHV
enthusiasts have failed to support this idea.
I don't get it. Does everyone think they'll be content running the
same trails over and over and over? Does nobody want the option to
find and open new trails to run? This seems so obvious to me yet
nobody says anything about it. Maybe they have and I simply haven't
witnessed it. But I doubt it.
-Roger
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee McCullen" <mccullen@c...>
wrote:
> <snip>
> The final access maps will not show anything we don't identify
> NOW........ if groups are doing trails (specifically extreme rock
> crawling) and not identifying them now we will not have them
> available to us until the next RMP which will most likely be 10-15
> years from now. If we're caught on any trails not on the access
> maps we will be dealt hefty fines. We MUST identify what we're
> doing.
>
> Sandee
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
95514 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:47am
Subject: [Tech] '01 TJ - unknown vibration
I use my TJ mostly as a daily driver, lately when i jump on the freeway and drive to where i'm going. As I come of the off ramp and slow down, there's a vibration whenever I creap forword. I seems like a gear or u joint is binding somewhere. And after that it never does it until i get back on the freeway and do the same thing. Has anyone experienced this, please help it's starting to bother me.
Russ Dougherty
95515 From: Chris <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 0:06pm
Subject: Re: [OT] For Sale...
9" Ring and Pinion, guess that means Sharky's Ring is a 9"
opening...definatly a personal problem...LOL
Chris
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Bryan Loveless <Bryan.Loveless@n...>
wrote:
> Is that 9 inches across or out?
> Sounds like a personal problem.
>
> :)
>
> --Bryan
>
__________________________________________________ ___________________
___
>
__________________________________________________ ___________________
___
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:24:20 -0000
> From: "Sharky" <sharxjeep@c...>
> Subject: [OT] For Sale...
>
> If anyone needs alight grey back seat for a TJ I have one for
sale
> as well as a 9" rear end.
>
> Sharky
> ....
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________ ___________________
___
>
__________________________________________________ ___________________
___
95516 From: Chris Lindsey <azrubi@a...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:58am
Subject: Re: New Wrangler wheelbase ???
Hi,
I was talking to the dealership, yesterday. And they said it's due out
in April and will be 18" longer and a Rubicon! Unfortunately, I can't
wait that long to replace mine. :-(
Take care,
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: "Linda" <minihummer@w...>
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 15:03:34 -0000
Subject: [az_vjc] New Wrangler wheelbase ???
> I just heard that the redesigned Wrangler model (2005?) will have its
> wheelbase stretched about 15". Does anyone have more information?
>
> Thanks,
> Linda
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
95517 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:06am
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to az_vjc
Do it on the Yahoo site
Chris
On Dec 11, 2003, at 8:57 AM, Singleton, Laura wrote:
> Help!! How can I stop all the emails from coming through? They are
> coming
> to my work address and are going to get me into trouble. Do I have to
> do it
> from the yahoo site or from the AZVJC home page?
>
> Laura Singleton
> 480 688 8047
> 480 350 8284-wk
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:az_vjc@yahoogroups.com]
> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 7:53 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] New file uploaded to az_vjc
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the az_vjc
> group.
>
> File : /RTI Scores.xls
> Uploaded by : hackle_2001 <hackle@q...>
> Description : Ramp Scores 12-07-03
>
> You can access this file at the URL
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/az_vjc/files/RTI%20Scores.xls
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit
>
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> hackle_2001 <hackle@q...>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
95518 From: Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:27pm
Subject: Distributor oil leak
Recently, my 258 has developed an oil leak from where the distributor
mounts to the block. I replaced the small gasket (using high heat
sealant on the block side) but it's still leaking pretty good.
Obviously, you can't seal the top side as the distributor needs to
turn for timing. Assuming my gasket seal is OK, is there any other
way for oil to escape here? Can it come up through the shaft itself?
The distibutor is old and it wouldn't surprise me if it's toast.
Might be a good reason to upgrade the ignition system :)
Any advice greatly appreciated.
Matt
K7MTO
95519 From: Jim <jishby@m...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 0:03pm
Subject: Thanks on Crown King
Thanks for all the info. I'll pass it on to my co-worker.
Jim
97 TJ locked & lifted.
95520 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:57am
Subject: RE: Re: table mesa maps
We can ALL participate in this process. By showing to the meetings when
they're posted and "speaking for your side" has and will continue to,
help us all.
Phoenix Field Office (BLM) took a very innovative step in doing the RMP
(Resource Management Plan). From day one they have been to the local
communities, talked with the recreationists, environmentalists, local
businesses etc........ they have hosted the scoping meetings in areas
like Buckeye; Wickenburg; Black Canyon City; Prescott; Mayer; and
Phoenix. This enabled EVERYONE the opportunity to attend meetings and
learn what BLM are doing and how they are making plans for each local
area.
In lieu of "open house" meetings where we go in and have to talk "one to
one" and most times no one knows the issues well enough to ask the
question or understand the answer.......... PFO has allowed EVERYONE to
speak after they give their presentation of what they have done and/or
where they feel the plans need to go.
This latest scoping meeting (a month ago) they presented 4
alternatives........ normally the agencies ask to "pick" an
alternative. NOT GOOD. PFO has specifically asked us to NOT pick an
alternative. They asked each representative group (4x4; Wilderness;
Sierra Club; Equestrian; cultural; etc........ to set a meeting and
review everything individually to enable the BLM to put together a
"Preferred Alternative" being based on everyones input.
RED SHIRTS showing at meetings has been very powerful.......... they
are now allowing us to submit suggestions/changes/proposals etc on
behalf of all of us. i.e.: in the past each individual has had to
submit their own letters which are then "counted" as "for or against" a
plan or issue. This time PFO allowed us to submit suggestions /
proposals on behalf of all OHV. This was only done because they have
seen the RED SHIRTS at meetings and felt there was support from within.
To make a long story short.............. simply SHOW at these meetings
when they are announced or WRITE a letter when a letter notice goes out.
Just the show of "being involved" shows interest. If no one shows, or
no one writes letters, they simply take the path of least resistance
(via the GREEN path) because they feel the OHV guys don't care.
Sandee
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Holmes [mailto:flamable_liquid@h...]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 10:31 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: table mesa maps
I would agree as well but personally i have no idea how to support this
issue, what would you need the "common man" to do. letter time, attedee
time. just some curiousity because i know that the same trails for 15
years
will get old. Im sure lots of people are behind you guys but simply dont
know where to put their support. I know I am one.
~Robert
>From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
>To: "'tomas2691'" <tomasr@a...>, az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: table mesa maps
>Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:29:07 -0700
>
>Roger is correct.....I've attended a number of meetings where it was
stated
>to the BLM that a process needs to be included in the RMP so that
changes
>in
>the trail inventory can be accommodated without a new RMP being
required.
>
>Settling for anything less is bull****, pure and simple!
>
>Stu
>
>
>Stu Olson
>www.stu-offroad.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: tomas2691 [mailto:tomasr@a...]
>Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 8:29 AM
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Re: table mesa maps
>
>While I appreciate the need to identify trails now, having to wait
>until the next RMP to gain new trails is unacceptable. At almost
>every BLM planning meeting I have attended, I have requested that the
>plan include an official, documented process by which new trails can
>be opened. Unfortunately, I think my comments have fallen on deaf
>ears. BLM folks just sort of nod their heads. And fellow OHV
>enthusiasts have failed to support this idea.
>
>I don't get it. Does everyone think they'll be content running the
>same trails over and over and over? Does nobody want the option to
>find and open new trails to run? This seems so obvious to me yet
>nobody says anything about it. Maybe they have and I simply haven't
>witnessed it. But I doubt it.
>
>-Roger
>
>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee McCullen" <mccullen@c...>
>wrote:
> > <snip>
> > The final access maps will not show anything we don't identify
> > NOW........ if groups are doing trails (specifically extreme rock
> > crawling) and not identifying them now we will not have them
> > available to us until the next RMP which will most likely be 10-15
> > years from now. If we're caught on any trails not on the access
> > maps we will be dealt hefty fines. We MUST identify what we're
> > doing.
> >
> > Sandee
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________ _______________
Take advantage of our best MSN Dial-up offer of the year - six months
@$9.95/month. Sign up now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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95521 From: rolled1000 <rolled1@c...>
Date: Thu Dec 11, 2003 4:05pm
Subject: Re: Roll Bar
Thanks to everyone that replied. I should be able to find one (or 50
LOL) now
Terry
99 TJ
03 KJ
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Hooven" <whooven@c...> wrote:
> Try AMC 4x4 Salvage (though modern sport bars are in high demand):
> http://vanity.qwestdex.com/amc4x4salvage/Page1.html
>
> There are also a few other local AZ salvage yards on this page:
>
> http://www.jeepsonly.com/Shopping/Salvage/
>
> Bill Hooven
>
> --------------
> Bill - Jeeps Only
> http://www.jeepsonly.com
> A Yahoo-style directory/search engine of links for Jeeps only
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rolled1000" <rolled1@c...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:36 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Roll Bar
>
>
> > I'm in need of a stock roll bar for a 99 TJ. Anyone know where I can
> > pick one up?
> > TIA
> > Terry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >