blooddrive
01-09-2004, 05:18 AM
94595-94619
94595 From: jeff misischia <g4mannn@y...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 8:01pm
Subject: Re: [OT] - FRS Radios
we got ours at costco---79.99 with a 20 dollar mail-in
rebate. they are the same ones i believe.
jeff
--- Robert Peck <rlpii@q...> wrote:
> I am thinking about purchasing a set of FRS Radios,
> and was wondering if
> anyone had some advice (like I have to ask this
> group) :-) . Has anyone
> had any experience with rechargeable batteries in
> the radios? REI has a
> set on sale for $74.99 (Motorola T5920 NiCad 2
> Pack), is this a good
> one? It says that it comes with rechargeable
> batteries and a desk top
> charge with a 5 mile range.
>
> They would not get real heavy use, just when we were
> out hiking (when
> the Jeep is broken), or around the campsite, or on
> the road? Any
> insight would be appreciated.
>
> TIA
> Bob
> 74 CJ-5
> CANT W8
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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94596 From: Fred Wilson <fredtj@c...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 8:14pm
Subject: Re: wheel sizes for TJs with WJ brakes
If you have the older style WJ calibers, then you won't have to
clearance them very much. The new style require quite a bit of work, to
get them to fit 15 inch wheels.
Best,
Fred
Chris Krieg wrote:
>Because I already have reasonably new tires and wheels on the TJ. I'd
>lose too much selling them and buying new ones, especially with the
>sweet deal Rick B hook me up with for the wheels.
>
>Chris
>
>On Nov 17, 2003, at 4:20 PM, Linda wrote:
>
>
>
>>Chris,
>>
>>I know this is a silly question to ask, but why not go to larger
>>diameter wheels and get the added stability that goes along with them?
>>
>>Linda
>>
>>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Good for them. At least they are doing something to their rig.
>>>
>>>Honestly, why all the Hummer and other rig bashing? Insecurity
>>>
>>>
>>about
>>
>>
>>>our Jeeps?
>>>Who cares what everyone else drives. To each his/her own. Can we
>>>
>>>
>>just
>>
>>
>>>let it rest?
>>>
>>>I know, lets talk about Jeeps. Anyone do any cool mods lately? I'm
>>>starting the work to try to fit WJ brakes to my TJ. I already have
>>>
>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>knuckles so the brakes are the next logical step. I have some
>>>
>>>
>>calipers
>>
>>
>>>and mounts for them. I know which rotors to use and what kind of
>>>spacers are needed to go with my Warn Hub conversion. Now all I
>>>
>>>
>>have to
>>
>>
>>>do is dry fit them and see how much caliper grinding I'll have to
>>>
>>>
>>do to
>>
>>
>>>clear my 15" aluminum wheels.
>>>If all goes well, I'll switch to the bigger front WJ brakes and
>>>
>>>
>>rear ZJ
>>
>>
>>>disks.
>>>I'm also finally going to put a steering stabilizer on and hood
>>>
>>>
>>vents.
>>
>>
>>>Maybe a new custom air cleaner housing also.
>>>
>>>Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
94597 From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 8:14pm
Subject: Re: wheel sizes for TJs with WJ brakes
Ah -- what's a few bucks! ;-) Yeah, I know. It isn't cheap to make
switches like that. I think I spent close to $1600 on the first round of
16x8s and tires for the ZJ, but I did it on purpose to eventually put
bigger brakes on the car since large tires need large brakes, especially
for street use. But I never got around to it. The Willys is getting all
the right stuff the first time.
Linda
Chris Krieg wrote:
>
> Because I already have reasonably new tires and wheels on the TJ. I'd
> lose too much selling them and buying new ones, especially with the
> sweet deal Rick B hook me up with for the wheels.
>
> Chris
>
> On Nov 17, 2003, at 4:20 PM, Linda wrote:
>
> > Chris,
> >
> > I know this is a silly question to ask, but why not go to larger
> > diameter wheels and get the added stability that goes along with them?
> >
> > Linda
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...> wrote:
> >> Good for them. At least they are doing something to their rig.
> >>
> >> Honestly, why all the Hummer and other rig bashing? Insecurity
> > about
> >> our Jeeps?
> >> Who cares what everyone else drives. To each his/her own. Can we
> > just
> >> let it rest?
> >>
> >> I know, lets talk about Jeeps. Anyone do any cool mods lately? I'm
> >> starting the work to try to fit WJ brakes to my TJ. I already have
> > the
> >> knuckles so the brakes are the next logical step. I have some
> > calipers
> >> and mounts for them. I know which rotors to use and what kind of
> >> spacers are needed to go with my Warn Hub conversion. Now all I
> > have to
> >> do is dry fit them and see how much caliper grinding I'll have to
> > do to
> >> clear my 15" aluminum wheels.
> >> If all goes well, I'll switch to the bigger front WJ brakes and
> > rear ZJ
> >> disks.
> >> I'm also finally going to put a steering stabilizer on and hood
> > vents.
> >> Maybe a new custom air cleaner housing also.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
94598 From: <rokkcrawler@a...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:24pm
Subject: Re: Bust out the kleenex...
Actually if they stick to it, sounds like exciting new info to me. In
reading about the "new" Liberty Renegade it looks like they are going to do more to
it than just cosmetic if you read the lines and between the lines. A new
Grand with the 5.7 Hemi.....YEAH ! And a larger SUV than the Grand, now I like
that idea too for highway driving, maybe they will finally have a 1st class
tow vehicle again. Lets see what the future brings, sure they probably wont
come off the line with one that will do a 4.0 or greater trail but if they
stick to their hype, the next generation of Jeeps will be more off road worthy in
their stock form than the present crop.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94599 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 8:26pm
Subject: [FS] Vendor Items Added
<p>
<font face=Arial>
Hello Members of the AzVJC,<br>
RockRatz 4x4 has just added some items to the Classified section of the AzVJC Website that may be of
interest to you. To see these items
<a href='http://www.azvjc.org/default.asp?A=X&ID=ForSale/default.asp?C=10'>
Click Here
</a>
or goto the website classifieds and select 'Vendor' from the list.<br>
Thank You,<br><br>
- The AzVJC Website<br><br>
</font>
</p>
94600 From: Linda <minihummer@w...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 8:34pm
Subject: Re: Jeep Trailers
I didn't know a TJ could pull a tandem axle trailer. A V8 Grand
Cherokee can pull that weight (around 5000#), but a 6-cyl Jeep engine
would be at its limits. Mountain grades wouldn't be a lot of fun.
There are some very nice 1/4-ton single axle military trailers that
would work better and brakes aren't a problem.
Linda
54 wagon
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Russell" <desertjeep@c...> wrote:
> I recently bought a trailer for my Jeep. Dual Axle, one axle
apparently has electric brakes. I'm not real sure what the law
requires as far as hooking these up, how to do it etc.
> I've read articles where it sounds like just an emergency brake
for if the trailer breaks loose but anyhow, fill me in if you can.
> I appreciate y'all putting up with some of my PITA questions!
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
> Tucson
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94601 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 8:55pm
Subject: Re: wheel sizes for TJs with WJ brakes
I got the '99 ones from Mark Hinkley. They shouldn't need much
clearancing. Blaine said that is one of the correct years.
Chris
On Nov 17, 2003, at 9:14 PM, Fred Wilson wrote:
> If you have the older style WJ calibers, then you won't have to
> clearance them very much. The new style require quite a bit of work, to
> get them to fit 15 inch wheels.
>
>
> Best,
> Fred
>
>
> Chris Krieg wrote:
>
>> Because I already have reasonably new tires and wheels on the TJ. I'd
>> lose too much selling them and buying new ones, especially with the
>> sweet deal Rick B hook me up with for the wheels.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On Nov 17, 2003, at 4:20 PM, Linda wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Chris,
>>>
>>> I know this is a silly question to ask, but why not go to larger
>>> diameter wheels and get the added stability that goes along with
>>> them?
>>>
>>> Linda
>>>
>>> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Good for them. At least they are doing something to their rig.
>>>>
>>>> Honestly, why all the Hummer and other rig bashing? Insecurity
>>>>
>>>>
>>> about
>>>
>>>
>>>> our Jeeps?
>>>> Who cares what everyone else drives. To each his/her own. Can we
>>>>
>>>>
>>> just
>>>
>>>
>>>> let it rest?
>>>>
>>>> I know, lets talk about Jeeps. Anyone do any cool mods lately? I'm
>>>> starting the work to try to fit WJ brakes to my TJ. I already have
>>>>
>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>
>>>> knuckles so the brakes are the next logical step. I have some
>>>>
>>>>
>>> calipers
>>>
>>>
>>>> and mounts for them. I know which rotors to use and what kind of
>>>> spacers are needed to go with my Warn Hub conversion. Now all I
>>>>
>>>>
>>> have to
>>>
>>>
>>>> do is dry fit them and see how much caliper grinding I'll have to
>>>>
>>>>
>>> do to
>>>
>>>
>>>> clear my 15" aluminum wheels.
>>>> If all goes well, I'll switch to the bigger front WJ brakes and
>>>>
>>>>
>>> rear ZJ
>>>
>>>
>>>> disks.
>>>> I'm also finally going to put a steering stabilizer on and hood
>>>>
>>>>
>>> vents.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Maybe a new custom air cleaner housing also.
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
94602 From: jetowle2000 <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 8:56pm
Subject: Re: Bust out the kleenex...
I wouldn't hope for a Hemi too soon. I heard they are having
some "bugs" in it. Something about the roller rocker that are
assembled in Mexico, I just heard bits and pieces and it doesn't
sound too good.
--James
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, rokkcrawler@a... wrote:
> Actually if they stick to it, sounds like exciting new info to
me. In
> reading about the "new" Liberty Renegade it looks like they are
going to do more to
> it than just cosmetic if you read the lines and between the
lines. A new
> Grand with the 5.7 Hemi.....YEAH ! And a larger SUV than the
Grand, now I like
> that idea too for highway driving, maybe they will finally have a
1st class
> tow vehicle again. Lets see what the future brings, sure they
probably wont
> come off the line with one that will do a 4.0 or greater trail but
if they
> stick to their hype, the next generation of Jeeps will be more off
road worthy in
> their stock form than the present crop.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94603 From: RICK BEER <RIKNAZ@M...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:04pm
Subject: Kartchner caverns
I would like to plan a weekend in January to make a treck down to Karchner caverns to check out one of the amazing sites in Arizona so I need to know if I can get a group together so I can make reservation for a tour tickets are $22.95 for adults $12.95 for children ages 7-13 children younger than 7 are not allowed sorry I did not make this rule tours run 7 days a week 16 tours per day tours are limited to 15 people if I get more than 15 people I will set up 2 or more tours if needed I would like to do some wheelin also so I up for suggestions on any trails near the area
http://www.kartchnercave.com/Parks/parkhtml/kartchner.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94604 From: RICK BEER <RIKNAZ@M...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:10pm
Subject: Re: wheel sizes for TJs with WJ brakes
Chris what size wheel was on the WJ before it was parted out I could be wrong but all WJ were 16 inch or bigger no 15 inch
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Krieg
To: Fred Wilson
Cc: Linda ; Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] wheel sizes for TJs with WJ brakes
I got the '99 ones from Mark Hinkley. They shouldn't need much
clearancing. Blaine said that is one of the correct years.
Chris
On Nov 17, 2003, at 9:14 PM, Fred Wilson wrote:
> If you have the older style WJ calibers, then you won't have to
> clearance them very much. The new style require quite a bit of work, to
> get them to fit 15 inch wheels.
>
>
> Best,
> Fred
>
>
> Chris Krieg wrote:
>
>> Because I already have reasonably new tires and wheels on the TJ. I'd
>> lose too much selling them and buying new ones, especially with the
>> sweet deal Rick B hook me up with for the wheels.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On Nov 17, 2003, at 4:20 PM, Linda wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Chris,
>>>
>>> I know this is a silly question to ask, but why not go to larger
>>> diameter wheels and get the added stability that goes along with
>>> them?
>>>
>>> Linda
>>>
>>> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Good for them. At least they are doing something to their rig.
>>>>
>>>> Honestly, why all the Hummer and other rig bashing? Insecurity
>>>>
>>>>
>>> about
>>>
>>>
>>>> our Jeeps?
>>>> Who cares what everyone else drives. To each his/her own. Can we
>>>>
>>>>
>>> just
>>>
>>>
>>>> let it rest?
>>>>
>>>> I know, lets talk about Jeeps. Anyone do any cool mods lately? I'm
>>>> starting the work to try to fit WJ brakes to my TJ. I already have
>>>>
>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>
>>>> knuckles so the brakes are the next logical step. I have some
>>>>
>>>>
>>> calipers
>>>
>>>
>>>> and mounts for them. I know which rotors to use and what kind of
>>>> spacers are needed to go with my Warn Hub conversion. Now all I
>>>>
>>>>
>>> have to
>>>
>>>
>>>> do is dry fit them and see how much caliper grinding I'll have to
>>>>
>>>>
>>> do to
>>>
>>>
>>>> clear my 15" aluminum wheels.
>>>> If all goes well, I'll switch to the bigger front WJ brakes and
>>>>
>>>>
>>> rear ZJ
>>>
>>>
>>>> disks.
>>>> I'm also finally going to put a steering stabilizer on and hood
>>>>
>>>>
>>> vents.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Maybe a new custom air cleaner housing also.
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94605 From: Kevin & Kelly <kkhop@j...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:34pm
Subject: Re: Sat. Run Table Mesa
Well the other line a stock jeep went up. not much of a
challange.
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <flexyxj98@m...> wrote:
> ummm, I dont think its the "harder" line by ANY means....Most
> definatly the WRONG line however.....
>
>
> FlexyXJ
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin & Kelly" <kkhop@j...> wrote:
> > Very good question I guess they just wanted to take the harder way
> > Kelly--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "tomas2691" <tomasr@a...>
wrote:
> > > Why did so many people try to take the low line through the
> > Whiteline
> > > obstacle?
> > >
> > > Just curious.
> > >
> > > -Roger
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin & Kelly" <kkhop@j...>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Lower Terminator Pg.1 11/15/2003
> > > > http://community.webshots.com/album/100222581OPxyNY
> > > >
> > > > Lower Terminator Pg.2 11/15/2003
> > > > http://community.webshots.com/album/100258201dvOPqg
94606 From: LONNIE PAUGH <lpaughjr1@m...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:37pm
Subject: Re: Kartchner caverns
Rick
I have also heard that the parking is $10 per vehicle in addition to the
cost of admission.
Lonnie
----- Original Message -----
From: "RICK BEER" <RIKNAZ@M...>
To: "ARIZONABACKCOUNTRY" <AZBACKCOUNTRY@YAHOOGROUPS.COM>; "AZVJC AZVJC"
<AZ_VJC@YAHOOGROUPS.COM>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 10:04 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Kartchner caverns
> I would like to plan a weekend in January to make a treck down to Karchner
> caverns to check out one of the amazing sites in Arizona so I need
> to know if I can get a group together so I can make reservation for a
> tour tickets are $22.95 for adults $12.95 for children ages 7-13
> children younger than 7 are not allowed sorry I did not make this rule
> tours run 7 days a week 16 tours per day tours are limited to 15 people if
> I get more than 15 people I will set up 2 or more tours if needed I
> would like to do some wheelin also so I up for suggestions on any trails
> near the area
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.kartchnercave.com/Parks/parkhtml/kartchner.html
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
94607 From: Craig Micek <micekc@e...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:44pm
Subject: FS:Howell FI
I just posted my fuel injection for sale in the classifieds. Anyone interested?
Craig
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94608 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:49pm
Subject: Re: wheel sizes for TJs with WJ brakes
Yup, all WJs had 16. I have 15s, thus the need to clearance the
calipers.
Chris
On Nov 17, 2003, at 10:10 PM, RICK BEER wrote:
> Chris what size wheel was on the WJ before it was parted out I
> could be wrong but all WJ were 16 inch or bigger no 15 inch
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chris Krieg
> To: Fred Wilson
> Cc: Linda; Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
> Sent:Monday, November 17, 2003 9:55 PM
> Subject:Re: [az_vjc] wheel sizes for TJs with WJ brakes
>
> I got the '99 ones from Mark Hinkley. They shouldn't need much
> clearancing. Blaine said that is one of the correct years.
>
> Chris
>
> On Nov 17, 2003, at 9:14 PM, Fred Wilson wrote:
>
> > If you have the older style WJ calibers, then you won't have to
> > clearance them very much. The new style require quite a bit of work,
> to
> > get them to fit 15 inch wheels.
> >
> >
> > Best,
> > Fred
> >
> >
> > Chris Krieg wrote:
> >
> >> Because I already have reasonably new tires and wheels on the TJ.
> I'd
> >> lose too much selling them and buying new ones, especially with the
> >> sweet deal Rick B hook me up with for the wheels.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
> >> On Nov 17, 2003, at 4:20 PM, Linda wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Chris,
> >>>
> >>> I know this is a silly question to ask, but why not go to larger
> >>> diameter wheels and get the added stability that goes along with
> >>> them?
> >>>
> >>> Linda
> >>>
> >>> --- Inaz_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Good for them. At least they are doing something to their rig.
> >>>>
> >>>> Honestly, why all the Hummer and other rig bashing? Insecurity
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> about
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> our Jeeps?
> >>>> Who cares what everyone else drives. To each his/her own. Can we
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> just
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> let it rest?
> >>>>
> >>>> I know, lets talk about Jeeps. Anyone do any cool mods lately? I'm
> >>>> starting the work to try to fit WJ brakes to my TJ. I already have
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> knuckles so the brakes are the next logical step. I have some
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> calipers
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> and mounts for them. I know which rotors to use and what kind of
> >>>> spacers are needed to go with my Warn Hub conversion. Now all I
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> have to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> do is dry fit them and see how much caliper grinding I'll have to
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> do to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> clear my 15" aluminum wheels.
> >>>> If all goes well, I'll switch to the bigger front WJ brakes and
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> rear ZJ
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> disks.
> >>>> I'm also finally going to put a steering stabilizer on and hood
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> vents.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Maybe a new custom air cleaner housing also.
> >>>>
> >>>> Chris
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject
> tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
94609 From: Mitch Woodward <bigwood@c...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:25pm
Subject: Re: Kartchner caverns
Wow, what forethought. I wish shopping malls, restaurants, and movie
theatres had the same rule as the caverns.
Mitch
----- Original Message -----
From: "RICK BEER" <RIKNAZ@M...>
To: "ARIZONABACKCOUNTRY" <AZBACKCOUNTRY@YAHOOGROUPS.COM>; "AZVJC AZVJC"
<AZ_VJC@YAHOOGROUPS.COM>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 10:04 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Kartchner caverns
> I would like to plan a weekend in January to make a treck down to Karchner
caverns to check out one of the amazing sites in Arizona so I need to
know if I can get a group together so I can make reservation for a tour
tickets are $22.95 for adults $12.95 for children ages 7-13 children
younger than 7 are not allowed sorry I did not make this rule tours run
7 days a week 16 tours per day tours are limited to 15 people if I get more
than 15 people I will set up 2 or more tours if needed I would like to do
some wheelin also so I up for suggestions on any trails near the area
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.kartchnercave.com/Parks/parkhtml/kartchner.html
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
94610 From: Mitch Woodward <bigwood@c...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:26pm
Subject: Re: Kartchner caverns
I can check that out on Thursday if you want. I have to work in sorry vista
that day.
Mitch
----- Original Message -----
From: "LONNIE PAUGH" <lpaughjr1@m...>
To: "ARIZONABACKCOUNTRY" <AZBACKCOUNTRY@YAHOOGROUPS.COM>; "AZVJC AZVJC"
<AZ_VJC@YAHOOGROUPS.COM>; "RICK BEER" <RIKNAZ@M...>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Kartchner caverns
> Rick
> I have also heard that the parking is $10 per vehicle in addition to the
> cost of admission.
> Lonnie
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "RICK BEER" <RIKNAZ@M...>
> To: "ARIZONABACKCOUNTRY" <AZBACKCOUNTRY@YAHOOGROUPS.COM>; "AZVJC AZVJC"
> <AZ_VJC@YAHOOGROUPS.COM>
> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 10:04 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Kartchner caverns
>
>
> > I would like to plan a weekend in January to make a treck down to
Karchner
> > caverns to check out one of the amazing sites in Arizona so I need
> > to know if I can get a group together so I can make reservation for a
> > tour tickets are $22.95 for adults $12.95 for children ages 7-13
> > children younger than 7 are not allowed sorry I did not make this
rule
> > tours run 7 days a week 16 tours per day tours are limited to 15 people
if
> > I get more than 15 people I will set up 2 or more tours if needed I
> > would like to do some wheelin also so I up for suggestions on any trails
> > near the area
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.kartchnercave.com/Parks/parkhtml/kartchner.html
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
94611 From: purple <purp8@c...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:52pm
Subject: RE: Kartchner caverns
My son Dillon and I would like to go . Luckily he's 8 now .
Purple .
-----Original Message-----
From: RICK BEER [mailto:RIKNAZ@M...]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 10:04 PM
To: ARIZONABACKCOUNTRY; AZVJC AZVJC
Subject: [az_vjc] Kartchner caverns
I would like to plan a weekend in January to make a treck down to Karchner
caverns to check out one of the amazing sites in Arizona so I need to
know if I can get a group together so I can make reservation for a tour
tickets are $22.95 for adults $12.95 for children ages 7-13 children
younger than 7 are not allowed sorry I did not make this rule tours run
7 days a week 16 tours per day tours are limited to 15 people if I get more
than 15 people I will set up 2 or more tours if needed I would like to do
some wheelin also so I up for suggestions on any trails near the area
http://www.kartchnercave.com/Parks/parkhtml/kartchner.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
94612 From: Mitch Woodward <bigwood@c...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:57pm
Subject: Re: wheel sizes for TJs with WJ brakes
I still want some 33x12.5R20 for my f-150.
Mitch
----- Original Message -----
From: "linda luik" <minihummer@w...>
To: "Chris Krieg" <rv6a@m...>
Cc: "Arizona Virtual Jeep Club" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] wheel sizes for TJs with WJ brakes
> Ah -- what's a few bucks! ;-) Yeah, I know. It isn't cheap to make
> switches like that. I think I spent close to $1600 on the first round of
> 16x8s and tires for the ZJ, but I did it on purpose to eventually put
> bigger brakes on the car since large tires need large brakes, especially
> for street use. But I never got around to it. The Willys is getting all
> the right stuff the first time.
>
> Linda
>
> Chris Krieg wrote:
> >
> > Because I already have reasonably new tires and wheels on the TJ. I'd
> > lose too much selling them and buying new ones, especially with the
> > sweet deal Rick B hook me up with for the wheels.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > On Nov 17, 2003, at 4:20 PM, Linda wrote:
> >
> > > Chris,
> > >
> > > I know this is a silly question to ask, but why not go to larger
> > > diameter wheels and get the added stability that goes along with them?
> > >
> > > Linda
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...> wrote:
> > >> Good for them. At least they are doing something to their rig.
> > >>
> > >> Honestly, why all the Hummer and other rig bashing? Insecurity
> > > about
> > >> our Jeeps?
> > >> Who cares what everyone else drives. To each his/her own. Can we
> > > just
> > >> let it rest?
> > >>
> > >> I know, lets talk about Jeeps. Anyone do any cool mods lately? I'm
> > >> starting the work to try to fit WJ brakes to my TJ. I already have
> > > the
> > >> knuckles so the brakes are the next logical step. I have some
> > > calipers
> > >> and mounts for them. I know which rotors to use and what kind of
> > >> spacers are needed to go with my Warn Hub conversion. Now all I
> > > have to
> > >> do is dry fit them and see how much caliper grinding I'll have to
> > > do to
> > >> clear my 15" aluminum wheels.
> > >> If all goes well, I'll switch to the bigger front WJ brakes and
> > > rear ZJ
> > >> disks.
> > >> I'm also finally going to put a steering stabilizer on and hood
> > > vents.
> > >> Maybe a new custom air cleaner housing also.
> > >>
> > >> Chris
> > >>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
94613 From: John Rabenius <jrabenius@c...>
Date: Tue Nov 18, 2003 2:42am
Subject: MTR's VS BFG's?
I'd still run the MTR's.
I had BFG Mud Terrains on my Cherokee that were almost new (less
than four months old), and I tore up two of them on rocks in less
than three months. I ended up buying a set of MTR's and selling the
BFG Mud Terrains.
The MTR's are better on the street than the BFG Mud Terrains. They
seem to have less tire squirm, they are a little quieter, and they
wear better.
The BFG Mud Terrains are the noisiest of the three, don't wear any
longer than the MTR's, and they have sidewalls.
I recently sold my Cherokee and bought a Wrangler. It came with a
new set of BFG All Terrains on it. I have run 5 or 6 trail runs on
them, and I have one tire that is losing air, and several very large
chunks torn out of the sidewalls, along with a couple of bad cuts.
The BFG All Terrains are a little better on the street than the
MTR's, and they are a little quieter. For all out street
performance, the All Terrains the the best. BUT the sidewalls SUCK!
Reguardless of which tire you run, I spend the $50.00 and have the
alignment checked immediately after I put the tires on.
John Rabenius
94614 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Tue Nov 18, 2003 4:43am
Subject: [TR] Powerline Trail - Saturday, November 22, 2003
Hello All,Scott Grigsby is leading a Powerline Trail trail run on Saturday, November 22, 2003.<br><br>When: 8:30 AM
Where: Meet at the Rest stop in Superior just as you come into town on the right from Phoenix
Rating: 3.5
Length: 6 hours
CB Channel: na
This is a fun trail, lets get some of the new members out for a ride.
The Powerline Trail does a figure 8 as you travel along the powerline, up a off-camber hill and then back down to a grassy meadow and back up another slippery "switchback" trail.<br>
<br>
This trail is truly a challenge for the moderate 4-wheeler. Some type of locking device is recommended, as well as clearance and 31' tires. Totally stock vehicles and/or novice drivers are not recommended. This is an all day trip. Don't forget your lunch & water.<br>
<br>
Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
http://www.azvjc.org/default.asp?A=1&ID=1095
Click the link above To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
94615 From: <NVRSTUKXJ@a...>
Date: Tue Nov 18, 2003 5:15am
Subject: Re: Re: More H2 Bashing
the thing I found interesting about the page was that he didn't do any of the installs himself.....everything was installed by some shop or another...ahhh, to have money to burn :-)
94616 From: Jim Russell <desertjeep@c...>
Date: Tue Nov 18, 2003 4:38am
Subject: Re: Jeep Trailers
Hi all,
Sorry, I guess my post was a little lacking in information. I intend to use my motor home to pull the trailer with the Jeep on the trailer. Sorry for the confusion.
Jim
Tucson
76 CJ-5
Message: 24
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:34:57 -0000
From: "Linda" <minihummer@w...>
Subject: Re: Jeep Trailers
I didn't know a TJ could pull a tandem axle trailer. A V8 Grand
Cherokee can pull that weight (around 5000#), but a 6-cyl Jeep engine
would be at its limits.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94617 From: Linda <minihummer@w...>
Date: Tue Nov 18, 2003 6:12am
Subject: Re: Bust out the kleenex...
From what I hear, the whole Chrysler line-up is considered dated by
DC. The Chrysler engineers and designers are really scrambling to come
up with new ideas to keep their products ahead of the pack. That
doesn't mean functional or fun. What it means is making money.
Automobile companies in the businss to make a profit. The idea that
they must keep a 'tradition' alive for the sentimental reasons is a
bunch of BS. It will be interesting to see what variations they come
up with.
I like the WJs, but I wouldn't buy one anymore than I would buy any
new Jeep product. It's not DC-Jeep's designs, it's because of
emissions and fuel efficiency agreements (laws) that have forced auto
makers to use computer programs to run the vehicles.
DC-Jeep announced a while back that they are coming out with a new
entry level SUV. I can't imagine anything more entry level than a
Wrangler with a 4-cyl, stick shift, and a rag top.
Linda
54 wagon
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Nick N" <nnote@d...> wrote:
> http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-11-16-jeep_x.htm
>
> Nick
> http://members.cox.net/nnote/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94618 From: Chris Kilcullen <whoozey1953@y...>
Date: Tue Nov 18, 2003 6:18am
Subject: Re: Re: Jeep Trailers
I'm thinking he bought the trailer to tow the jeep with it, not tow the trailer with the jeep
Linda <minihummer@w...> wrote:I didn't know a TJ could pull a tandem axle trailer. A V8 Grand
Cherokee can pull that weight (around 5000#), but a 6-cyl Jeep engine
would be at its limits. Mountain grades wouldn't be a lot of fun.
There are some very nice 1/4-ton single axle military trailers that
would work better and brakes aren't a problem.
Linda
54 wagon
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Russell" wrote:
> I recently bought a trailer for my Jeep. Dual Axle, one axle
apparently has electric brakes. I'm not real sure what the law
requires as far as hooking these up, how to do it etc.
> I've read articles where it sounds like just an emergency brake
for if the trailer breaks loose but anyhow, fill me in if you can.
> I appreciate y'all putting up with some of my PITA questions!
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
> Tucson
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94619 From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
Date: Tue Nov 18, 2003 6:24am
Subject: Re: Re: Bust out the kleenex...
Maybe DC will sell Jeep to GMC or Ford. We can only hope.
Tony
Linda wrote:
>>From what I hear, the whole Chrysler line-up is considered dated by
>DC. The Chrysler engineers and designers are really scrambling to come
>up with new ideas to keep their products ahead of the pack. That
>doesn't mean functional or fun. What it means is making money.
>Automobile companies in the businss to make a profit. The idea that
>they must keep a 'tradition' alive for the sentimental reasons is a
>bunch of BS. It will be interesting to see what variations they come
>up with.
>
>I like the WJs, but I wouldn't buy one anymore than I would buy any
>new Jeep product. It's not DC-Jeep's designs, it's because of
>emissions and fuel efficiency agreements (laws) that have forced auto
>makers to use computer programs to run the vehicles.
>
>DC-Jeep announced a while back that they are coming out with a new
>entry level SUV. I can't imagine anything more entry level than a
>Wrangler with a 4-cyl, stick shift, and a rag top.
>
>Linda
>54 wagon
>
>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Nick N" <nnote@d...> wrote:
>
>
>>http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-11-16-jeep_x.htm
>>
>>Nick
>>http://members.cox.net/nnote/
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
94595 From: jeff misischia <g4mannn@y...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 8:01pm
Subject: Re: [OT] - FRS Radios
we got ours at costco---79.99 with a 20 dollar mail-in
rebate. they are the same ones i believe.
jeff
--- Robert Peck <rlpii@q...> wrote:
> I am thinking about purchasing a set of FRS Radios,
> and was wondering if
> anyone had some advice (like I have to ask this
> group) :-) . Has anyone
> had any experience with rechargeable batteries in
> the radios? REI has a
> set on sale for $74.99 (Motorola T5920 NiCad 2
> Pack), is this a good
> one? It says that it comes with rechargeable
> batteries and a desk top
> charge with a 5 mile range.
>
> They would not get real heavy use, just when we were
> out hiking (when
> the Jeep is broken), or around the campsite, or on
> the road? Any
> insight would be appreciated.
>
> TIA
> Bob
> 74 CJ-5
> CANT W8
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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94596 From: Fred Wilson <fredtj@c...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 8:14pm
Subject: Re: wheel sizes for TJs with WJ brakes
If you have the older style WJ calibers, then you won't have to
clearance them very much. The new style require quite a bit of work, to
get them to fit 15 inch wheels.
Best,
Fred
Chris Krieg wrote:
>Because I already have reasonably new tires and wheels on the TJ. I'd
>lose too much selling them and buying new ones, especially with the
>sweet deal Rick B hook me up with for the wheels.
>
>Chris
>
>On Nov 17, 2003, at 4:20 PM, Linda wrote:
>
>
>
>>Chris,
>>
>>I know this is a silly question to ask, but why not go to larger
>>diameter wheels and get the added stability that goes along with them?
>>
>>Linda
>>
>>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Good for them. At least they are doing something to their rig.
>>>
>>>Honestly, why all the Hummer and other rig bashing? Insecurity
>>>
>>>
>>about
>>
>>
>>>our Jeeps?
>>>Who cares what everyone else drives. To each his/her own. Can we
>>>
>>>
>>just
>>
>>
>>>let it rest?
>>>
>>>I know, lets talk about Jeeps. Anyone do any cool mods lately? I'm
>>>starting the work to try to fit WJ brakes to my TJ. I already have
>>>
>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>knuckles so the brakes are the next logical step. I have some
>>>
>>>
>>calipers
>>
>>
>>>and mounts for them. I know which rotors to use and what kind of
>>>spacers are needed to go with my Warn Hub conversion. Now all I
>>>
>>>
>>have to
>>
>>
>>>do is dry fit them and see how much caliper grinding I'll have to
>>>
>>>
>>do to
>>
>>
>>>clear my 15" aluminum wheels.
>>>If all goes well, I'll switch to the bigger front WJ brakes and
>>>
>>>
>>rear ZJ
>>
>>
>>>disks.
>>>I'm also finally going to put a steering stabilizer on and hood
>>>
>>>
>>vents.
>>
>>
>>>Maybe a new custom air cleaner housing also.
>>>
>>>Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
94597 From: linda luik <minihummer@w...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 8:14pm
Subject: Re: wheel sizes for TJs with WJ brakes
Ah -- what's a few bucks! ;-) Yeah, I know. It isn't cheap to make
switches like that. I think I spent close to $1600 on the first round of
16x8s and tires for the ZJ, but I did it on purpose to eventually put
bigger brakes on the car since large tires need large brakes, especially
for street use. But I never got around to it. The Willys is getting all
the right stuff the first time.
Linda
Chris Krieg wrote:
>
> Because I already have reasonably new tires and wheels on the TJ. I'd
> lose too much selling them and buying new ones, especially with the
> sweet deal Rick B hook me up with for the wheels.
>
> Chris
>
> On Nov 17, 2003, at 4:20 PM, Linda wrote:
>
> > Chris,
> >
> > I know this is a silly question to ask, but why not go to larger
> > diameter wheels and get the added stability that goes along with them?
> >
> > Linda
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...> wrote:
> >> Good for them. At least they are doing something to their rig.
> >>
> >> Honestly, why all the Hummer and other rig bashing? Insecurity
> > about
> >> our Jeeps?
> >> Who cares what everyone else drives. To each his/her own. Can we
> > just
> >> let it rest?
> >>
> >> I know, lets talk about Jeeps. Anyone do any cool mods lately? I'm
> >> starting the work to try to fit WJ brakes to my TJ. I already have
> > the
> >> knuckles so the brakes are the next logical step. I have some
> > calipers
> >> and mounts for them. I know which rotors to use and what kind of
> >> spacers are needed to go with my Warn Hub conversion. Now all I
> > have to
> >> do is dry fit them and see how much caliper grinding I'll have to
> > do to
> >> clear my 15" aluminum wheels.
> >> If all goes well, I'll switch to the bigger front WJ brakes and
> > rear ZJ
> >> disks.
> >> I'm also finally going to put a steering stabilizer on and hood
> > vents.
> >> Maybe a new custom air cleaner housing also.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
94598 From: <rokkcrawler@a...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:24pm
Subject: Re: Bust out the kleenex...
Actually if they stick to it, sounds like exciting new info to me. In
reading about the "new" Liberty Renegade it looks like they are going to do more to
it than just cosmetic if you read the lines and between the lines. A new
Grand with the 5.7 Hemi.....YEAH ! And a larger SUV than the Grand, now I like
that idea too for highway driving, maybe they will finally have a 1st class
tow vehicle again. Lets see what the future brings, sure they probably wont
come off the line with one that will do a 4.0 or greater trail but if they
stick to their hype, the next generation of Jeeps will be more off road worthy in
their stock form than the present crop.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94599 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 8:26pm
Subject: [FS] Vendor Items Added
<p>
<font face=Arial>
Hello Members of the AzVJC,<br>
RockRatz 4x4 has just added some items to the Classified section of the AzVJC Website that may be of
interest to you. To see these items
<a href='http://www.azvjc.org/default.asp?A=X&ID=ForSale/default.asp?C=10'>
Click Here
</a>
or goto the website classifieds and select 'Vendor' from the list.<br>
Thank You,<br><br>
- The AzVJC Website<br><br>
</font>
</p>
94600 From: Linda <minihummer@w...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 8:34pm
Subject: Re: Jeep Trailers
I didn't know a TJ could pull a tandem axle trailer. A V8 Grand
Cherokee can pull that weight (around 5000#), but a 6-cyl Jeep engine
would be at its limits. Mountain grades wouldn't be a lot of fun.
There are some very nice 1/4-ton single axle military trailers that
would work better and brakes aren't a problem.
Linda
54 wagon
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Russell" <desertjeep@c...> wrote:
> I recently bought a trailer for my Jeep. Dual Axle, one axle
apparently has electric brakes. I'm not real sure what the law
requires as far as hooking these up, how to do it etc.
> I've read articles where it sounds like just an emergency brake
for if the trailer breaks loose but anyhow, fill me in if you can.
> I appreciate y'all putting up with some of my PITA questions!
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
> Tucson
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94601 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 8:55pm
Subject: Re: wheel sizes for TJs with WJ brakes
I got the '99 ones from Mark Hinkley. They shouldn't need much
clearancing. Blaine said that is one of the correct years.
Chris
On Nov 17, 2003, at 9:14 PM, Fred Wilson wrote:
> If you have the older style WJ calibers, then you won't have to
> clearance them very much. The new style require quite a bit of work, to
> get them to fit 15 inch wheels.
>
>
> Best,
> Fred
>
>
> Chris Krieg wrote:
>
>> Because I already have reasonably new tires and wheels on the TJ. I'd
>> lose too much selling them and buying new ones, especially with the
>> sweet deal Rick B hook me up with for the wheels.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On Nov 17, 2003, at 4:20 PM, Linda wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Chris,
>>>
>>> I know this is a silly question to ask, but why not go to larger
>>> diameter wheels and get the added stability that goes along with
>>> them?
>>>
>>> Linda
>>>
>>> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Good for them. At least they are doing something to their rig.
>>>>
>>>> Honestly, why all the Hummer and other rig bashing? Insecurity
>>>>
>>>>
>>> about
>>>
>>>
>>>> our Jeeps?
>>>> Who cares what everyone else drives. To each his/her own. Can we
>>>>
>>>>
>>> just
>>>
>>>
>>>> let it rest?
>>>>
>>>> I know, lets talk about Jeeps. Anyone do any cool mods lately? I'm
>>>> starting the work to try to fit WJ brakes to my TJ. I already have
>>>>
>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>
>>>> knuckles so the brakes are the next logical step. I have some
>>>>
>>>>
>>> calipers
>>>
>>>
>>>> and mounts for them. I know which rotors to use and what kind of
>>>> spacers are needed to go with my Warn Hub conversion. Now all I
>>>>
>>>>
>>> have to
>>>
>>>
>>>> do is dry fit them and see how much caliper grinding I'll have to
>>>>
>>>>
>>> do to
>>>
>>>
>>>> clear my 15" aluminum wheels.
>>>> If all goes well, I'll switch to the bigger front WJ brakes and
>>>>
>>>>
>>> rear ZJ
>>>
>>>
>>>> disks.
>>>> I'm also finally going to put a steering stabilizer on and hood
>>>>
>>>>
>>> vents.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Maybe a new custom air cleaner housing also.
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
94602 From: jetowle2000 <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 8:56pm
Subject: Re: Bust out the kleenex...
I wouldn't hope for a Hemi too soon. I heard they are having
some "bugs" in it. Something about the roller rocker that are
assembled in Mexico, I just heard bits and pieces and it doesn't
sound too good.
--James
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, rokkcrawler@a... wrote:
> Actually if they stick to it, sounds like exciting new info to
me. In
> reading about the "new" Liberty Renegade it looks like they are
going to do more to
> it than just cosmetic if you read the lines and between the
lines. A new
> Grand with the 5.7 Hemi.....YEAH ! And a larger SUV than the
Grand, now I like
> that idea too for highway driving, maybe they will finally have a
1st class
> tow vehicle again. Lets see what the future brings, sure they
probably wont
> come off the line with one that will do a 4.0 or greater trail but
if they
> stick to their hype, the next generation of Jeeps will be more off
road worthy in
> their stock form than the present crop.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94603 From: RICK BEER <RIKNAZ@M...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:04pm
Subject: Kartchner caverns
I would like to plan a weekend in January to make a treck down to Karchner caverns to check out one of the amazing sites in Arizona so I need to know if I can get a group together so I can make reservation for a tour tickets are $22.95 for adults $12.95 for children ages 7-13 children younger than 7 are not allowed sorry I did not make this rule tours run 7 days a week 16 tours per day tours are limited to 15 people if I get more than 15 people I will set up 2 or more tours if needed I would like to do some wheelin also so I up for suggestions on any trails near the area
http://www.kartchnercave.com/Parks/parkhtml/kartchner.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94604 From: RICK BEER <RIKNAZ@M...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:10pm
Subject: Re: wheel sizes for TJs with WJ brakes
Chris what size wheel was on the WJ before it was parted out I could be wrong but all WJ were 16 inch or bigger no 15 inch
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Krieg
To: Fred Wilson
Cc: Linda ; Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] wheel sizes for TJs with WJ brakes
I got the '99 ones from Mark Hinkley. They shouldn't need much
clearancing. Blaine said that is one of the correct years.
Chris
On Nov 17, 2003, at 9:14 PM, Fred Wilson wrote:
> If you have the older style WJ calibers, then you won't have to
> clearance them very much. The new style require quite a bit of work, to
> get them to fit 15 inch wheels.
>
>
> Best,
> Fred
>
>
> Chris Krieg wrote:
>
>> Because I already have reasonably new tires and wheels on the TJ. I'd
>> lose too much selling them and buying new ones, especially with the
>> sweet deal Rick B hook me up with for the wheels.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On Nov 17, 2003, at 4:20 PM, Linda wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Chris,
>>>
>>> I know this is a silly question to ask, but why not go to larger
>>> diameter wheels and get the added stability that goes along with
>>> them?
>>>
>>> Linda
>>>
>>> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Good for them. At least they are doing something to their rig.
>>>>
>>>> Honestly, why all the Hummer and other rig bashing? Insecurity
>>>>
>>>>
>>> about
>>>
>>>
>>>> our Jeeps?
>>>> Who cares what everyone else drives. To each his/her own. Can we
>>>>
>>>>
>>> just
>>>
>>>
>>>> let it rest?
>>>>
>>>> I know, lets talk about Jeeps. Anyone do any cool mods lately? I'm
>>>> starting the work to try to fit WJ brakes to my TJ. I already have
>>>>
>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>
>>>> knuckles so the brakes are the next logical step. I have some
>>>>
>>>>
>>> calipers
>>>
>>>
>>>> and mounts for them. I know which rotors to use and what kind of
>>>> spacers are needed to go with my Warn Hub conversion. Now all I
>>>>
>>>>
>>> have to
>>>
>>>
>>>> do is dry fit them and see how much caliper grinding I'll have to
>>>>
>>>>
>>> do to
>>>
>>>
>>>> clear my 15" aluminum wheels.
>>>> If all goes well, I'll switch to the bigger front WJ brakes and
>>>>
>>>>
>>> rear ZJ
>>>
>>>
>>>> disks.
>>>> I'm also finally going to put a steering stabilizer on and hood
>>>>
>>>>
>>> vents.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Maybe a new custom air cleaner housing also.
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94605 From: Kevin & Kelly <kkhop@j...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:34pm
Subject: Re: Sat. Run Table Mesa
Well the other line a stock jeep went up. not much of a
challange.
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <flexyxj98@m...> wrote:
> ummm, I dont think its the "harder" line by ANY means....Most
> definatly the WRONG line however.....
>
>
> FlexyXJ
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin & Kelly" <kkhop@j...> wrote:
> > Very good question I guess they just wanted to take the harder way
> > Kelly--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "tomas2691" <tomasr@a...>
wrote:
> > > Why did so many people try to take the low line through the
> > Whiteline
> > > obstacle?
> > >
> > > Just curious.
> > >
> > > -Roger
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin & Kelly" <kkhop@j...>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Lower Terminator Pg.1 11/15/2003
> > > > http://community.webshots.com/album/100222581OPxyNY
> > > >
> > > > Lower Terminator Pg.2 11/15/2003
> > > > http://community.webshots.com/album/100258201dvOPqg
94606 From: LONNIE PAUGH <lpaughjr1@m...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:37pm
Subject: Re: Kartchner caverns
Rick
I have also heard that the parking is $10 per vehicle in addition to the
cost of admission.
Lonnie
----- Original Message -----
From: "RICK BEER" <RIKNAZ@M...>
To: "ARIZONABACKCOUNTRY" <AZBACKCOUNTRY@YAHOOGROUPS.COM>; "AZVJC AZVJC"
<AZ_VJC@YAHOOGROUPS.COM>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 10:04 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Kartchner caverns
> I would like to plan a weekend in January to make a treck down to Karchner
> caverns to check out one of the amazing sites in Arizona so I need
> to know if I can get a group together so I can make reservation for a
> tour tickets are $22.95 for adults $12.95 for children ages 7-13
> children younger than 7 are not allowed sorry I did not make this rule
> tours run 7 days a week 16 tours per day tours are limited to 15 people if
> I get more than 15 people I will set up 2 or more tours if needed I
> would like to do some wheelin also so I up for suggestions on any trails
> near the area
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.kartchnercave.com/Parks/parkhtml/kartchner.html
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
94607 From: Craig Micek <micekc@e...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:44pm
Subject: FS:Howell FI
I just posted my fuel injection for sale in the classifieds. Anyone interested?
Craig
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94608 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:49pm
Subject: Re: wheel sizes for TJs with WJ brakes
Yup, all WJs had 16. I have 15s, thus the need to clearance the
calipers.
Chris
On Nov 17, 2003, at 10:10 PM, RICK BEER wrote:
> Chris what size wheel was on the WJ before it was parted out I
> could be wrong but all WJ were 16 inch or bigger no 15 inch
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chris Krieg
> To: Fred Wilson
> Cc: Linda; Arizona Virtual Jeep Club
> Sent:Monday, November 17, 2003 9:55 PM
> Subject:Re: [az_vjc] wheel sizes for TJs with WJ brakes
>
> I got the '99 ones from Mark Hinkley. They shouldn't need much
> clearancing. Blaine said that is one of the correct years.
>
> Chris
>
> On Nov 17, 2003, at 9:14 PM, Fred Wilson wrote:
>
> > If you have the older style WJ calibers, then you won't have to
> > clearance them very much. The new style require quite a bit of work,
> to
> > get them to fit 15 inch wheels.
> >
> >
> > Best,
> > Fred
> >
> >
> > Chris Krieg wrote:
> >
> >> Because I already have reasonably new tires and wheels on the TJ.
> I'd
> >> lose too much selling them and buying new ones, especially with the
> >> sweet deal Rick B hook me up with for the wheels.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
> >> On Nov 17, 2003, at 4:20 PM, Linda wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Chris,
> >>>
> >>> I know this is a silly question to ask, but why not go to larger
> >>> diameter wheels and get the added stability that goes along with
> >>> them?
> >>>
> >>> Linda
> >>>
> >>> --- Inaz_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Good for them. At least they are doing something to their rig.
> >>>>
> >>>> Honestly, why all the Hummer and other rig bashing? Insecurity
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> about
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> our Jeeps?
> >>>> Who cares what everyone else drives. To each his/her own. Can we
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> just
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> let it rest?
> >>>>
> >>>> I know, lets talk about Jeeps. Anyone do any cool mods lately? I'm
> >>>> starting the work to try to fit WJ brakes to my TJ. I already have
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> knuckles so the brakes are the next logical step. I have some
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> calipers
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> and mounts for them. I know which rotors to use and what kind of
> >>>> spacers are needed to go with my Warn Hub conversion. Now all I
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> have to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> do is dry fit them and see how much caliper grinding I'll have to
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> do to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> clear my 15" aluminum wheels.
> >>>> If all goes well, I'll switch to the bigger front WJ brakes and
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> rear ZJ
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> disks.
> >>>> I'm also finally going to put a steering stabilizer on and hood
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> vents.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Maybe a new custom air cleaner housing also.
> >>>>
> >>>> Chris
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject
> tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
94609 From: Mitch Woodward <bigwood@c...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:25pm
Subject: Re: Kartchner caverns
Wow, what forethought. I wish shopping malls, restaurants, and movie
theatres had the same rule as the caverns.
Mitch
----- Original Message -----
From: "RICK BEER" <RIKNAZ@M...>
To: "ARIZONABACKCOUNTRY" <AZBACKCOUNTRY@YAHOOGROUPS.COM>; "AZVJC AZVJC"
<AZ_VJC@YAHOOGROUPS.COM>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 10:04 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Kartchner caverns
> I would like to plan a weekend in January to make a treck down to Karchner
caverns to check out one of the amazing sites in Arizona so I need to
know if I can get a group together so I can make reservation for a tour
tickets are $22.95 for adults $12.95 for children ages 7-13 children
younger than 7 are not allowed sorry I did not make this rule tours run
7 days a week 16 tours per day tours are limited to 15 people if I get more
than 15 people I will set up 2 or more tours if needed I would like to do
some wheelin also so I up for suggestions on any trails near the area
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.kartchnercave.com/Parks/parkhtml/kartchner.html
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
94610 From: Mitch Woodward <bigwood@c...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:26pm
Subject: Re: Kartchner caverns
I can check that out on Thursday if you want. I have to work in sorry vista
that day.
Mitch
----- Original Message -----
From: "LONNIE PAUGH" <lpaughjr1@m...>
To: "ARIZONABACKCOUNTRY" <AZBACKCOUNTRY@YAHOOGROUPS.COM>; "AZVJC AZVJC"
<AZ_VJC@YAHOOGROUPS.COM>; "RICK BEER" <RIKNAZ@M...>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Kartchner caverns
> Rick
> I have also heard that the parking is $10 per vehicle in addition to the
> cost of admission.
> Lonnie
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "RICK BEER" <RIKNAZ@M...>
> To: "ARIZONABACKCOUNTRY" <AZBACKCOUNTRY@YAHOOGROUPS.COM>; "AZVJC AZVJC"
> <AZ_VJC@YAHOOGROUPS.COM>
> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 10:04 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Kartchner caverns
>
>
> > I would like to plan a weekend in January to make a treck down to
Karchner
> > caverns to check out one of the amazing sites in Arizona so I need
> > to know if I can get a group together so I can make reservation for a
> > tour tickets are $22.95 for adults $12.95 for children ages 7-13
> > children younger than 7 are not allowed sorry I did not make this
rule
> > tours run 7 days a week 16 tours per day tours are limited to 15 people
if
> > I get more than 15 people I will set up 2 or more tours if needed I
> > would like to do some wheelin also so I up for suggestions on any trails
> > near the area
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.kartchnercave.com/Parks/parkhtml/kartchner.html
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
94611 From: purple <purp8@c...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:52pm
Subject: RE: Kartchner caverns
My son Dillon and I would like to go . Luckily he's 8 now .
Purple .
-----Original Message-----
From: RICK BEER [mailto:RIKNAZ@M...]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 10:04 PM
To: ARIZONABACKCOUNTRY; AZVJC AZVJC
Subject: [az_vjc] Kartchner caverns
I would like to plan a weekend in January to make a treck down to Karchner
caverns to check out one of the amazing sites in Arizona so I need to
know if I can get a group together so I can make reservation for a tour
tickets are $22.95 for adults $12.95 for children ages 7-13 children
younger than 7 are not allowed sorry I did not make this rule tours run
7 days a week 16 tours per day tours are limited to 15 people if I get more
than 15 people I will set up 2 or more tours if needed I would like to do
some wheelin also so I up for suggestions on any trails near the area
http://www.kartchnercave.com/Parks/parkhtml/kartchner.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
94612 From: Mitch Woodward <bigwood@c...>
Date: Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:57pm
Subject: Re: wheel sizes for TJs with WJ brakes
I still want some 33x12.5R20 for my f-150.
Mitch
----- Original Message -----
From: "linda luik" <minihummer@w...>
To: "Chris Krieg" <rv6a@m...>
Cc: "Arizona Virtual Jeep Club" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] wheel sizes for TJs with WJ brakes
> Ah -- what's a few bucks! ;-) Yeah, I know. It isn't cheap to make
> switches like that. I think I spent close to $1600 on the first round of
> 16x8s and tires for the ZJ, but I did it on purpose to eventually put
> bigger brakes on the car since large tires need large brakes, especially
> for street use. But I never got around to it. The Willys is getting all
> the right stuff the first time.
>
> Linda
>
> Chris Krieg wrote:
> >
> > Because I already have reasonably new tires and wheels on the TJ. I'd
> > lose too much selling them and buying new ones, especially with the
> > sweet deal Rick B hook me up with for the wheels.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > On Nov 17, 2003, at 4:20 PM, Linda wrote:
> >
> > > Chris,
> > >
> > > I know this is a silly question to ask, but why not go to larger
> > > diameter wheels and get the added stability that goes along with them?
> > >
> > > Linda
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...> wrote:
> > >> Good for them. At least they are doing something to their rig.
> > >>
> > >> Honestly, why all the Hummer and other rig bashing? Insecurity
> > > about
> > >> our Jeeps?
> > >> Who cares what everyone else drives. To each his/her own. Can we
> > > just
> > >> let it rest?
> > >>
> > >> I know, lets talk about Jeeps. Anyone do any cool mods lately? I'm
> > >> starting the work to try to fit WJ brakes to my TJ. I already have
> > > the
> > >> knuckles so the brakes are the next logical step. I have some
> > > calipers
> > >> and mounts for them. I know which rotors to use and what kind of
> > >> spacers are needed to go with my Warn Hub conversion. Now all I
> > > have to
> > >> do is dry fit them and see how much caliper grinding I'll have to
> > > do to
> > >> clear my 15" aluminum wheels.
> > >> If all goes well, I'll switch to the bigger front WJ brakes and
> > > rear ZJ
> > >> disks.
> > >> I'm also finally going to put a steering stabilizer on and hood
> > > vents.
> > >> Maybe a new custom air cleaner housing also.
> > >>
> > >> Chris
> > >>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
94613 From: John Rabenius <jrabenius@c...>
Date: Tue Nov 18, 2003 2:42am
Subject: MTR's VS BFG's?
I'd still run the MTR's.
I had BFG Mud Terrains on my Cherokee that were almost new (less
than four months old), and I tore up two of them on rocks in less
than three months. I ended up buying a set of MTR's and selling the
BFG Mud Terrains.
The MTR's are better on the street than the BFG Mud Terrains. They
seem to have less tire squirm, they are a little quieter, and they
wear better.
The BFG Mud Terrains are the noisiest of the three, don't wear any
longer than the MTR's, and they have sidewalls.
I recently sold my Cherokee and bought a Wrangler. It came with a
new set of BFG All Terrains on it. I have run 5 or 6 trail runs on
them, and I have one tire that is losing air, and several very large
chunks torn out of the sidewalls, along with a couple of bad cuts.
The BFG All Terrains are a little better on the street than the
MTR's, and they are a little quieter. For all out street
performance, the All Terrains the the best. BUT the sidewalls SUCK!
Reguardless of which tire you run, I spend the $50.00 and have the
alignment checked immediately after I put the tires on.
John Rabenius
94614 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Tue Nov 18, 2003 4:43am
Subject: [TR] Powerline Trail - Saturday, November 22, 2003
Hello All,Scott Grigsby is leading a Powerline Trail trail run on Saturday, November 22, 2003.<br><br>When: 8:30 AM
Where: Meet at the Rest stop in Superior just as you come into town on the right from Phoenix
Rating: 3.5
Length: 6 hours
CB Channel: na
This is a fun trail, lets get some of the new members out for a ride.
The Powerline Trail does a figure 8 as you travel along the powerline, up a off-camber hill and then back down to a grassy meadow and back up another slippery "switchback" trail.<br>
<br>
This trail is truly a challenge for the moderate 4-wheeler. Some type of locking device is recommended, as well as clearance and 31' tires. Totally stock vehicles and/or novice drivers are not recommended. This is an all day trip. Don't forget your lunch & water.<br>
<br>
Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
http://www.azvjc.org/default.asp?A=1&ID=1095
Click the link above To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
94615 From: <NVRSTUKXJ@a...>
Date: Tue Nov 18, 2003 5:15am
Subject: Re: Re: More H2 Bashing
the thing I found interesting about the page was that he didn't do any of the installs himself.....everything was installed by some shop or another...ahhh, to have money to burn :-)
94616 From: Jim Russell <desertjeep@c...>
Date: Tue Nov 18, 2003 4:38am
Subject: Re: Jeep Trailers
Hi all,
Sorry, I guess my post was a little lacking in information. I intend to use my motor home to pull the trailer with the Jeep on the trailer. Sorry for the confusion.
Jim
Tucson
76 CJ-5
Message: 24
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:34:57 -0000
From: "Linda" <minihummer@w...>
Subject: Re: Jeep Trailers
I didn't know a TJ could pull a tandem axle trailer. A V8 Grand
Cherokee can pull that weight (around 5000#), but a 6-cyl Jeep engine
would be at its limits.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94617 From: Linda <minihummer@w...>
Date: Tue Nov 18, 2003 6:12am
Subject: Re: Bust out the kleenex...
From what I hear, the whole Chrysler line-up is considered dated by
DC. The Chrysler engineers and designers are really scrambling to come
up with new ideas to keep their products ahead of the pack. That
doesn't mean functional or fun. What it means is making money.
Automobile companies in the businss to make a profit. The idea that
they must keep a 'tradition' alive for the sentimental reasons is a
bunch of BS. It will be interesting to see what variations they come
up with.
I like the WJs, but I wouldn't buy one anymore than I would buy any
new Jeep product. It's not DC-Jeep's designs, it's because of
emissions and fuel efficiency agreements (laws) that have forced auto
makers to use computer programs to run the vehicles.
DC-Jeep announced a while back that they are coming out with a new
entry level SUV. I can't imagine anything more entry level than a
Wrangler with a 4-cyl, stick shift, and a rag top.
Linda
54 wagon
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Nick N" <nnote@d...> wrote:
> http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-11-16-jeep_x.htm
>
> Nick
> http://members.cox.net/nnote/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94618 From: Chris Kilcullen <whoozey1953@y...>
Date: Tue Nov 18, 2003 6:18am
Subject: Re: Re: Jeep Trailers
I'm thinking he bought the trailer to tow the jeep with it, not tow the trailer with the jeep
Linda <minihummer@w...> wrote:I didn't know a TJ could pull a tandem axle trailer. A V8 Grand
Cherokee can pull that weight (around 5000#), but a 6-cyl Jeep engine
would be at its limits. Mountain grades wouldn't be a lot of fun.
There are some very nice 1/4-ton single axle military trailers that
would work better and brakes aren't a problem.
Linda
54 wagon
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Russell" wrote:
> I recently bought a trailer for my Jeep. Dual Axle, one axle
apparently has electric brakes. I'm not real sure what the law
requires as far as hooking these up, how to do it etc.
> I've read articles where it sounds like just an emergency brake
for if the trailer breaks loose but anyhow, fill me in if you can.
> I appreciate y'all putting up with some of my PITA questions!
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
> Tucson
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
---------------------------------
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Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94619 From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
Date: Tue Nov 18, 2003 6:24am
Subject: Re: Re: Bust out the kleenex...
Maybe DC will sell Jeep to GMC or Ford. We can only hope.
Tony
Linda wrote:
>>From what I hear, the whole Chrysler line-up is considered dated by
>DC. The Chrysler engineers and designers are really scrambling to come
>up with new ideas to keep their products ahead of the pack. That
>doesn't mean functional or fun. What it means is making money.
>Automobile companies in the businss to make a profit. The idea that
>they must keep a 'tradition' alive for the sentimental reasons is a
>bunch of BS. It will be interesting to see what variations they come
>up with.
>
>I like the WJs, but I wouldn't buy one anymore than I would buy any
>new Jeep product. It's not DC-Jeep's designs, it's because of
>emissions and fuel efficiency agreements (laws) that have forced auto
>makers to use computer programs to run the vehicles.
>
>DC-Jeep announced a while back that they are coming out with a new
>entry level SUV. I can't imagine anything more entry level than a
>Wrangler with a 4-cyl, stick shift, and a rag top.
>
>Linda
>54 wagon
>
>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Nick N" <nnote@d...> wrote:
>
>
>>http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-11-16-jeep_x.htm
>>
>>Nick
>>http://members.cox.net/nnote/
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>