blooddrive
01-09-2004, 05:14 AM
94319-94343
94319 From: Sharky <sharxjeep@c...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:13pm
Subject: Rebuilding the McNasty McWrangler
Well, Ive got a living room full of Jeep parts ready to go...
Attached are a few pics of the progress as of yesterday. Shes been
coming along and I cant wait to see it when it is all done :)
A big thanks to Duffy and everyone whos involved, I know youve got
better things to do! :)
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?
action=viewall&albumID=99327651
Thanks
Sharky
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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94320 From: Wade Ungaro <swaders7@y...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:18pm
Subject: Re: Rebuilding the McNasty McWrangler
That link doesn't work even if you copy and paste it.
~Wade
Sharky <sharxjeep@c...> wrote:
Well, Ive got a living room full of Jeep parts ready to go...
Attached are a few pics of the progress as of yesterday. Shes been
coming along and I cant wait to see it when it is all done :)
A big thanks to Duffy and everyone whos involved, I know youve got
better things to do! :)
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?
action=viewall&albumID=99327651
Thanks
Sharky
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
~Wade
'97 "Blue Cactus" TJ
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/swaders7/
http://www.theungaros.com
http://www.azvjc.org
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94321 From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:32pm
Subject: Re: Rebuilding the McNasty McWrangler
McWrangler. What a perfect name for the 1994 YJ. I hate you, Lee
Iacocca! >=(
Tony
Sharky wrote:
>Well, Ive got a living room full of Jeep parts ready to go...
>Attached are a few pics of the progress as of yesterday. Shes been
>coming along and I cant wait to see it when it is all done :)
>A big thanks to Duffy and everyone whos involved, I know youve got
>better things to do! :)
>
>http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?
>action=viewall&albumID=99327651
>
>Thanks
>Sharky
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
94322 From: Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:32pm
Subject: Re: CJ7 Soft Doors
I've got a pair of CJ-5 soft doors but with the curved bottom I think
they'd leave a large gap at the bottom/rear. Still, you're welcome to
come by and try them on for size and their yours if you want them. I
was going to chop them down for half-doors but don't really need to
anymore.
Call my cell at 480-239-4182 or just drop by - I'm here all day every
day during the week.
3472 E. Geronimo Ct.
Gilbert
Matt
K7MTO
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@j...> wrote:
> Need some help finding soft doors for a CJ7 (I think the CJ5 doors
will work
> also).
> Anybody know where I can get a used set?
94323 From: Dave Peterson <gonzodave@y...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:48pm
Subject: Re: Re: CJ7 Soft Doors
The door openings between a CJ-5 and a CJ-7 are completely different. I
think CJ-7 and YJ doors are interchangeable, though.
Gonzo
--- Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...> wrote:
> I've got a pair of CJ-5 soft doors but with the curved bottom I think
> they'd leave a large gap at the bottom/rear. Still, you're welcome to
> come by and try them on for size and their yours if you want them. I
> was going to chop them down for half-doors but don't really need to
> anymore.
>
> Call my cell at 480-239-4182 or just drop by - I'm here all day every
> day during the week.
>
> 3472 E. Geronimo Ct.
> Gilbert
>
> Matt
> K7MTO
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@j...> wrote:
> > Need some help finding soft doors for a CJ7 (I think the CJ5 doors
> will work
> > also).
> > Anybody know where I can get a used set?
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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94324 From: Sharky <sharxjeep@c...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:01pm
Subject: why wont this work...
Im trying to send some pics of the Jeep but it wont let me...any
ideas?
Sharky
94325 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:14pm
Subject: Re: why wont this work...
They turned off the attachment feature because of all the viruses.
When you sent the link, you sent it while you were logged in to your
own album. See if there is a link to send an invite to a friend. Then,
send it to yourself. Then post the link it sends you.
Chris
On Nov 12, 2003, at 4:01 PM, Sharky wrote:
> Im trying to send some pics of the Jeep but it wont let me...any
> ideas?
>
> Sharky
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
94326 From: enb4w <enb4w@e...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:20pm
Subject: Items for sale
I have a TJ Rear deck rack and a set of 456 gears for a dana 44 brand
new in the box. The Rack is used and I am looking for $50.00 or best
offer and I am looking for $125.00 for the gears.
Please contact me via email at jhalvorsen@c... if you are interested
and I will send you my email.
94327 From: Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:26pm
Subject: Re: Freeway Opening display - This Saturday
I poked around the BLM website and found this doc which might be a
good handout. It's got high-level info about the BLM and how it
manages public lands. It's only 6 pages but has lots of eye candy in
the form of pictures and maps which makes it easier to read then a
dry text-only document. We can hand it out with AZVJC cards
(hopefully) and explain how we work closely with the BLM on
Recreation issues.
http://www.blm.gov/nhp/pubs/BLMBrochure.pdf
If I get a chance, I'll try and get some printed/copied at Kinkos,
but others might also in the event I can't.
There's also lots of good info at
http://www.recreation.gov and http://www.recreationmaps.gov
although it's mostly web-based and not alot of good material to print.
Matt
K7MTO
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Bob Jacques <bjacques@m...> wrote:
> Hi all and thanks for the interest and attendance... I will be
posting
> more later today or Thursday, just wanted to update everyone... We
have a TV
> and VCR coming and a generator to run them... Need Tapes !! How
about Land
> use handouts or cellophane enclosed copies to have at the table for
> reference !!?? Can anyone make a few cards with the logo and
website addy
> on them to hand out ?? John k, do you have the Banner?? If yes, I
will P/U
> today/Thurs... How about some folding/lawn chairs?? Anyone have
an EZ up
> for shade?? We have water and Ice coming.... Anything else? If
you have
> any ideas for handouts please send them to me today!!
> Thanks, Bob J
94328 From: Joe-CJ7 <Joe-CJ7@j...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:52pm
Subject: RE: Re: CJ7 Soft Doors
So you do not think they will work?
I am completely OK with a gap at the bottom. The big thing is if they
will latch closed.
Joe Kearney
Joe-CJ7@J...
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Peterson [mailto:gonzodave@y...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 3:48 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: CJ7 Soft Doors
The door openings between a CJ-5 and a CJ-7 are completely different. I
think CJ-7 and YJ doors are interchangeable, though.
Gonzo
--- Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...> wrote:
> I've got a pair of CJ-5 soft doors but with the curved bottom I think
> they'd leave a large gap at the bottom/rear. Still, you're welcome to
> come by and try them on for size and their yours if you want them. I
> was going to chop them down for half-doors but don't really need to
> anymore.
>
> Call my cell at 480-239-4182 or just drop by - I'm here all day every
> day during the week.
>
> 3472 E. Geronimo Ct.
> Gilbert
>
> Matt
> K7MTO
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@j...> wrote:
> > Need some help finding soft doors for a CJ7 (I think the CJ5 doors
> will work
> > also).
> > Anybody know where I can get a used set?
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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94329 From: Joe-CJ7 <Joe-CJ7@j...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:54pm
Subject: RE: doors
I do not know and I am sorry I don't.
Does anyone else know which ones I might need?
Joe Kearney
Joe-CJ7@J...
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve olney [mailto:olneyjeeps@y...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 4:20 PM
To: Joe-CJ7
Subject: RE: doors
square or round corner?
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94330 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:53pm
Subject: Moab Trails under assault
I got this off JU. I plan to do some letter writing and I suggest everyone
else follow suit. This area is targeted hard by the anti-recreation groups.
The Bureau of Land management is responsible for over 3.6 million acres of
public land in Grand and San Juan counties in Utah. A Resource Management
Plan (RMP)
Is the document that guides the Management and policies of the land it
covers.
The next RMP will guide decision making in these areas for the next 15
years.
By Federal law, the BLM must consider public opinion in the preparation of
the RMP. That is where we come in.
The Moab meeting was on OCT. 16th. About fifty people attended, but only 5
from the Red Rock 4 wheelers. MOST attendees were strong advocates of either
severely restricting or totally eliminating all motorized use on BLM land.
We are clearly outnumbered!
The good news is that public comments will be taken until Dec 30, 2003.
We must make our voices heard if we have any hope of having our wishes and
concerns being considered in the final draft of RMP.
We need all 4-wheelers to write a few comments of how important continued
motorized access is to us all in Moab. You can write or email the BLM office
www.moabrmp.com or www.monticellormp.com
Thanks MoabMike
Arizona RockRats President
http://www.rockrats.org/
"I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member" Groucho
Marx
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
94331 From: Sharky <sharxjeep@c...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:04pm
Subject: try again...
oops, sorry...
http://community.webshots.com/user/sharxjeep
Thanks
Sharky
94332 From: Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:09pm
Subject: Re: doors
See this site for info on various Jeep body styles/features...
http://www.jedi.com/obiwan/jeep/misc/models.html
Look at the pics of the CJ-5 and CJ-7 and note the shape of the door
openings to understand why the CJ-5 door would leave a large gap/hole
at the lower/rear corner of the CJ-7 door opening.
CJ-5 - The civilian version of the M38A1, but with the front shackles
under the bumper like most other models. 81" ('55-'71) or 84" ('72-
'83) wheelbase. Front fenders are rounded like all subsequent short-
wheelbase Jeeps. Easily distinguished from the CJ-7 by a small
doorway with a rounded, sloping rear edge.
CJ-7 - A compromise between the CJ-5 and CJ-6, having a 93.4"
wheelbase (like the YJ and TJ). The body tub is very similar to the
YJ and TJ, but the rear wheel wells are round instead of angular.
Made '76-'86.
Matt
K7MTO
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Joe-CJ7" <Joe-CJ7@j...> wrote:
> I do not know and I am sorry I don't.
>
>
>
> Does anyone else know which ones I might need?
>
>
>
>
>
> Joe Kearney
>
> Joe-CJ7@J...
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve olney [mailto:olneyjeeps@y...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 4:20 PM
> To: Joe-CJ7
> Subject: RE: doors
>
>
>
> square or round corner?
>
> _____
>
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94333 From: Dave Peterson <gonzodave@y...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:17pm
Subject: RE: Re: CJ7 Soft Doors
Joe,
As you've probably already seen, Matt O'Brien posted a link to a site that
describes the difference in the door openings. But even if you're okay
with a *huge* gap in the lower rear corner, I don't think the top part of
the door will fit, either. I think the distance on a CJ-5 from the
windshield to the top (measuring front-to-rear) is less than the distance
on a CJ-7 - although I've never measured this distance and don't know for
sure.
But basically, no, I don't think a CJ-5 door will work.
Dave
--- Joe-CJ7 <Joe-CJ7@J...> wrote:
> So you do not think they will work?
>
> I am completely OK with a gap at the bottom. The big thing is if they
> will latch closed.
>
> Joe Kearney
> Joe-CJ7@J...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Peterson [mailto:gonzodave@y...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 3:48 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: CJ7 Soft Doors
>
> The door openings between a CJ-5 and a CJ-7 are completely different. I
> think CJ-7 and YJ doors are interchangeable, though.
>
> Gonzo
>
> --- Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...> wrote:
> > I've got a pair of CJ-5 soft doors but with the curved bottom I think
> > they'd leave a large gap at the bottom/rear. Still, you're welcome to
> > come by and try them on for size and their yours if you want them. I
> > was going to chop them down for half-doors but don't really need to
> > anymore.
> >
> > Call my cell at 480-239-4182 or just drop by - I'm here all day every
> > day during the week.
> >
> > 3472 E. Geronimo Ct.
> > Gilbert
> >
> > Matt
> > K7MTO
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@j...> wrote:
> > > Need some help finding soft doors for a CJ7 (I think the CJ5 doors
> > will work
> > > also).
> > > Anybody know where I can get a used set?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
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94334 From: Fred Wilson <fredtj@c...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:19pm
Subject: Re: why wont this work...
The az_vjc list server was changed a while back to not allow attachments.
Fred
Sharky wrote:
> Im trying to send some pics of the Jeep but it wont let me...any
>ideas?
>
>Sharky
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
94335 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:20pm
Subject: [Tech] - Removing the Airbag for a 2001 TJ
Does anyone have any suggestions with removing a steering wheel with an air bag or know of anyone who can do the work? I haven't done anything with airbags before and prefer the help of someone with experience.
Robert Phillips
94336 From: Tom Schenk <tomschenk1@y...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:49pm
Subject: Re: sandy beach trail/stacking rocks
I'm going to stack rocks at will on every trail I ever go on again
without exeption until you people shut the hell up.
xoxo,
Tom S.
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "olneyjeeps" <olneyjeeps@y...> wrote:
> One more time real slow for you as it appears you have had troubles
> understanding my previous posts (as quoted from prior post):
> "
> I
> do not,
> did not,
> and
> never will
> condone
> "paving"
> "
>
> the baseline requirments for attending were:
> ""required
> > equipment would be:
> > minumum 33x125, 35+ (33's=lot of body damage probable)
> > Front and rear lockers
> > winch + hooks
> > strong back (rocks are heavy)"
>
> NEVER was the act of "paving" mentioned
> I ALWAYS try to be prepared for worst case scenerio (is this not
why
> we bring jacks,winch,hooks,strap,gloves).
> Just because I like to be prepared (as any responsible person would
> be) does NOT mean I intend/plan on using such devices.
> Do you / hard core wheelers use spotters who can not move a rock if
> absolutely necessary? Why would you expect me/anyone not to be
> prepared if necessary?
>
> Finally, although worded slopily at 3AM (due to power outage) I
> (although, as I said, I would not, nor would I condone paving)
would
> prefer any open trail to a closed trail. It is my position that NO
> ONE (sierra club or you) has the right to deny responsible access
to
> any land (they do not own, i.e. NASCAR)
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee McCullen" <mccullen@c...>
> wrote:
> > Nice to know someone is going to "take full credit for closure to
> OHV trails
> > and access"!!!!!!
> >
> > [[My position is that these lands must
> > > remain open (gonna lose some friende here) even if it has to be
> > > paved.]]
> >
> > PAVING and making by-passes will not keep lands / trails open.
> >
> > Thanks to recreationists like you we ALL WILL LOSE. NO ONE, not
> me, not
> > Chris, not Todd has said anything about "rock
> > stacking"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have NOT been talking
> about "rock
> > stacking" or "throwing a rock or two to help"....... you have
been
> talking
> > (as quoted above) about PAVING. Making the trail easier so you
> and/or
> > everyone/anyone can traverse it is called PAVING.
Again .........
> this kind
> > of action and/or attitude will, and does, reflect on all of us
and
> WILL
> > close our access whether you believe it or not!
> >
> > All the messages to you regarding "rocking" have been strictly
> stating:
> > "Don't go in if you plan on PAVING or making a by-pass. Making
the
> trail
> > easier is not the same as "helping" a vehicle through. Simple
trail
> > etiquette calls for "removing" rocks placed to 'help'. Don't
talk
> about
> > "competition" rock crawling in regards to "rock stacking".......
> ALL
> > competitions REQUIRE ALL ROCKS TO BE REMOVED and these guys don't
> do much
> > 'rock stacking' as they simply do not have the time to do so.
This
> is an
> > example of what you've been told throughout these
> posts......... "Leave the
> > challenge for the vehicles capable of meeting it". No one has
told
> you you
> > should never try a harder trail; no one has told you 'they have
> specific
> > trails and you don't'; no one has denied your right to "see our
> beautiful
> > country"........ you have only been asked to "drive where you
are
> capable
> > of, play where you are capable of".......... WITHOUT ruining
not
> only the
> > challenge but the trail as a whole.
> >
> > Let me tell you a short story of a possibility we are all facing
> because of
> > attitudes like yours:
> > With the new RMP's being done there is consideration of the 3.5
and
> less
> > trails will be assessed and mapped........ ALL extreme trails
will
> be
> > identified as: "Special Recreation Areas" and will require a
permit
> to
> > access at all times..... Like Bull Dog Wash on the Tonto
National
> Forest
> > BUT......... the agencies are considering a way to "tech" EACH
> VEHICLE for
> > proper equipment and EACH driver will have to sign a waiver
> stating "all
> > info to be true". Then........... if any driver is caught rock
> paving or
> > making by-passes they will be financially liable to return the
area
> back to
> > it's original condition.
> >
> > Yes, I know, you're thinking "yeh, right".............. same as
I
> have. We
> > probably all know this kind of lock down is impossible but they
ARE
> > considering something in this light............... BECAUSE of
> attitudes
> > like yours!!! Aren't you proud???!!
> >
> > Just because we're talking about PUBLIC lands does not give
> EVERYONE the
> > right to do as they please. I believe Chris mentioned to you
that
> there
> > WILL BE numerous areas designated for SPECIFIC
> recreation.......... That is
> > what an IES is about. Certain areas just are not conducive to
ALL
> types or
> > levels of recreation as you seem to think.
> >
> > I have been 4-wheeling probably longer than you've been on this
> earth and
> > have always cherished my 4-wheeling friends. They have been
> supportive and
> > considerate........... you certainly change that picture.
> >
> > Two words left........... GROW UP. Sandee
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: olneyjeeps [mailto:olneyjeeps@y...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 3:22 AM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: sandy beach trail/stacking rocks
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you for showing your true colors - self ritcous pompus
> > > controlling wannabe get to tell everyone where they can or
cannot
> go
> > > based on how you thought it would possibly change the run;
> > > As you may have been deaf and blind at the last blm meeting. I
> and my
> > > family enjoy exploring what shrinking habatat there is. They
> should
> > > not be limited to the hiking "elite". Nor should they be
limited
> to
> > > the "extreeme four wheeler" My position is that these lands must
> > > remain open (gonna lose some friende here) even if it has to be
> > > paved.
> > >
> > > No One should have sole right to the beauty / solitude /
> challange.
> > > This or any canyon is not for any one group. The more people
that
> > > see theese trails, the more people will want to preserve it. The
> > > trail is a trail, not your private playground. Not too long
ago
> your
> > > house was bare desart, get rid of the stacking there so you may
> have
> > > your own private playground.
> > > AlthoughI do not advocate wheel spinning, rockstatking, or
> winching
> > > thry do have their place in rare occasions, It is imperrative
> these
> > > lands remain open to ALL (forgive me for yelling) and not just
the
> > > owners of fab shops creating vehicles by whose standards leave
> 90% of
> > > the club "not worthy" / wannabees (how many of you that dont'
have
> > > 60's front and rear,4link airlockers, 44's etc realized you
were
> just
> > > labeled a wanabe, and therefore, by Ms. McCullen's judgement
owing
> > > gratitude for being allowed to travel the trails she and her
sons
> no
> > > longer consider "challanging"? Maybe we should rent heavy
> equipment
> > > and go in and tear up the trails so that no one (except Sandy
and
> > > her sons) can enjoy.
> > >
> > > In response to your comment referring to my comment as "sounds
> like
> > > like the green eye of
> > > > jealousy to me." Give me a break. There is not a speck
> > > (possesions, ability or otherwise) that you and your world
> traveled
> > > multi lingual college educated kids and their "toys" have that I
> > > would waste on starting a fire. My girls love spending time
with
> me
> > > exploring in the Jeeps. I need nothing more to garner their
full
> > > love and devotion.
> > >
> > > Public land is public land. Just as I fight to keep the Sierra
> Club
> > > from blocking off land for a limited few, I resent Sandy and
> others
> > > for claiming that they have exclusive right to any area.
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee McCullen" <mccullen@c...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > OK........... my apologies in the use of "YOU". It was
meant
> to be
> > > > directed at anyone that is into a trail they don't
belong.....
> or
> > > those that
> > > > seem to believe PAVING is simply a way to allow them to go
where
> > > they
> > > > please! Yes, caps indicate yelling or very strong suggestion
> and
> > > that is
> > > > exactly what I meant. I agree I was not there and I do
> appreciate
> > > the fact
> > > > he did turn around, but he also slams the extreme wheeler and
> > > indicated he
> > > > had as much right on those trails as anyone else. NO he does
> > > not.........
> > > > not if it means the extreme wheeler has to lose any/all
> challenge
> > > they have
> > > > because someone wants to "do what the big guys do". I'm so
> tired
> > > of this
> > > > attitude and mentality. Just because someone builds a vehicle
> > > capable of
> > > > doing almost anything does not make them "the big guy",
> or "GOD",
> > > or anyone
> > > > any different than you, I or the first time 4-wheeler.
> > > >
> > > > There were comments comparing the "damage" the buggies or rock
> > > crawlers do
> > > > ............ like leaving "semi-permanent marks" on the
rocks.
> Or
> > > climbing
> > > > "near vertical obstacles"........ sounds like like the green
> eye of
> > > > jealousy to me. This is not damage........ paving or making
> by-
> > > passes IS
> > > > damage and abuse and these actions are what will close ALL our
> > > trails.
> > > > ......
> > > >
> > > > [As long as it is not causing long term damage (such as the
semi
> > > > > >>>> perminant marks you leave behind while attempting to
> climb
> > > near
> > > > > >>>> vertical "obsticals") it is not my, your, or anyone's
> right
> > > to
> > > > > >>>> say where someone does or does not belong]
> > > >
> > > > This comes across to me as "I'll do as I
please"........ "it's
> my
> > > right to
> > > > stack rocks as long as the day is long", "I don't do any more
> > > damage than
> > > > the "rock scratchers" yada yada yada!! YES, it is MY RIGHT if
> > > these kinds
> > > > of actions lose the only challenge I have within my sport!
> YES, I
> > > AM
> > > > YELLING Chris............... there are way too many
> recreationists
> > > out
> > > > there that simply do NOT get the picture. Too many ATV's tear
> > > across
> > > > country, the 4-wheelers enter trails they are not capable of
> doing,
> > > many
> > > > motorcycles go way to fast............... and we can't seem
to
> > > understand
> > > > "WHY" we're losing everything. The agencies simply do not
want
> to
> > > deal with
> > > > the headaches of the recreationists not being
> responsible. .....
> > > Before
> > > > you go off again, I'm not saying or claiming this Steve
> was "not"
> > > > responsible but his attitude is certainly in the grey area...
> > > > There are LARGE groups of agency planners that feel
the "graded
> > > gravel roads
> > > > should be enough for us". There are also LARGE numbers of new
> > > personnel
> > > > joining the land management agencies and believe
> me.............,
> > > for the
> > > > most part, they are GREEN!!! Everyone seems to be
into "saving"
> > > something.
> > > > Our battles will not be getting easier and abuse such as rock
> > > paving and
> > > > by-passes are the first issues to be held over us. We lost
> > > Jawbreaker
> > > > because of "rock paving"........ had vehicles going
> > > through "DErocked" the
> > > > obstacle after getting through the Tucson BLM wouldn't have
had
> > > anything to
> > > > present to the courts to show "abuse". Game & Fish are no
> better.
> > > If it's
> > > > not wildlife habitat destruction, it's "messing up the
> watershed"
> > > of the
> > > > area or rock stacking is showing to alter the flow because it
> tends
> > > to hold
> > > > silt or gravel instead of allowing it to wash down stream etc
> etc
> > > > etc............. there's desert tortoise, or a lizard, or
> beetle
> > > or a WEED.
> > > > They'll use anything they can to shut out OHV
> recreation.........
> > > WHY do we
> > > > insist on hurting ourselves!!!?
> > > >
> > > > I am rambling and will continue to do so until ALL of my
fellow
> 4-
> > > wheelers
> > > > finally understand that we each have our own level of
wheeling
> and
> > > to mess
> > > > us someone elses challenge just to prove a point, will shut
us
> all
> > > down.
> > > >
> > > > Sandee
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 5:40 PM
> > > > > To: Sandee McCullen
> > > > > Cc: olneyjeeps; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: sandy beach trail/stacking rocks
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I quote you:
> > > > >
> > > > > "If you cannot traverse a trail without "paving" it with
> rocks to
> > > > > enable you to get through or across an obstacle........
YOU
> DON'T
> > > > > BELONG THERE!!"
> > > > >
> > > > > The use of "you" and the caps (internet yelling) make it
look
> > > like it
> > > > > was directed to him. Sorry if I misinterpreted this.
> > > > >
> > > > > Your points are all correct, but it is incorrect to use them
> > > against
> > > > > Steve in this case, since we were not there and have no
idea
> in
> > > what
> > > > > condition he left the trail.
> > > > >
> > > > > If we are going to preach, we should do it in a general
> manner.
> > > It is
> > > > > unfair to use someone else's post about a run to further our
> > > ideas,
> > > > > even if they are good ideas. To some, it will seem like we
are
> > > bashing
> > > > > the post.
> > > > >
> > > > > I read Steve's post and thought it was very responsible
that
> they
> > > did
> > > > > what they did. I gave him the benefit of the doubt that they
> > > unstacked
> > > > > the rock. Remember, innocent until proven guilty works in
may
> ways
> > > > > besides in a court of law, especially with friends and
fellow
> > > wheelers.
> > > > > It was pointed out to me in an email from another member
that
> his
> > > email
> > > > > also indicated that they might stack rocks if they go back.
> > > Again, I
> > > > > give him the benefit of the doubt that they will unstack
them
> as
> > > well.
> > > > > If they do not, then I will lose and my trust of him will
be
> lost.
> > > > >
> > > > > Remember (and this is my final point since I don't want
this
> to
> > > grow in
> > > > > to more than it has), if we were to never wheel on trails
that
> > > there is
> > > > > the potential that we will have to stack rocks, most of us
> would
> > > never
> > > > > leave the graded dirt road. That would be a shame.
> > > > >
> > > > > Chris
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 03:45 PM, Sandee McCullen
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Chris, I don't think anyone "jumped down anyones
> > > throat".........
> > > > > > simply
> > > > > > stated "rock paving" is ruining our extreme trails and is
> > > hurting us
> > > > > > all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have NO PROBLEM with turning around when finding a
trail
> is
> > > too
> > > > > > tough but
> > > > > > you and I both KNOW that there are waaaaaay too many
> vehicles
> > > going
> > > > > > into
> > > > > > trails they KNOW they are not equipped to do without
> rocking or
> > > making
> > > > > > by-passes! I hear over and over again....... "no problem,
> > > we'll 'pull
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > through'". WHY???? Isn't actually "driving to the
> individual
> > > > > > challenge"
> > > > > > what we're suppose to be about?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I didn't pretend to "be there" and I didn't accuse anyone
of
> > > > > > "semi-permanent" damage. Nor did I accuse the rock
> crawlers of
> > > being
> > > > > > "GODS". My message was to EVERYONE that are doing trails
> above
> > > their
> > > > > > ability, rock paving or making by-passes to get through
to
> stay
> > > within
> > > > > > their
> > > > > > own challenge limitations. These actions WILL affect ALL
> of us
> > > in the
> > > > > > near
> > > > > > future and it won't be what anyone wants to hear. This
> kind of
> > > abuse
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > closing trails across the country. The agencies are
having
> a
> > > tough
> > > > > > enough
> > > > > > time understanding the "challenge" of extreme 4-wheeling,
> but
> > > when all
> > > > > > they
> > > > > > see is the rock paving, by-passes, oil spills, and
> vegetation
> > > winched
> > > > > > out of
> > > > > > the ground they simply declare "abuse and resource
damage"
> and
> > > close
> > > > > > everything. It's going to take ALL of us to truly show
> > > RESPONSIBLE
> > > > > > use of
> > > > > > our recreation trails system................
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The responses from Todd and myself simply stated "to stay
on
> > > trails
> > > > > > within
> > > > > > individual vehicle and/or driver
> capabilities"............. or
> > > > > > "UNSTACK if
> > > > > > the need for rocks is called for".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sandee
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
> > > > > >> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 3:28 PM
> > > > > >> To: Sandee McCullen
> > > > > >> Cc: olneyjeeps; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: sandy beach trail/stacking
rocks
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Sandy and Todd, um, did either of you read his run
> description?
> > > > > >> They turned around after deciding they were beyond their
> > > capabilities.
> > > > > >> The rock stacking was done to get back out. No lectures
> should
> > > be
> > > > > >> given
> > > > > >> because they had no idea what the trail ahead was like.
> > > > > >> In my opinion, they did the sensible thing. They gave it
a
> try
> > > (aren't
> > > > > >> we all allowed to do this, it being public land and
all?)
> and
> > > called
> > > > > >> it
> > > > > >> quits when it became apparent that it was beyond their
> > > capabilities.
> > > > > >> So
> > > > > >> a few rocks were stacked to get them back out. At least
> they
> > > didn't
> > > > > >> just continue on and stack the entire trail as others
> probably
> > > would
> > > > > >> have. Besides, he never said he didn't unstack them.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Everyone, please don't be so quick to jump down the other
> > > guys/girls
> > > > > >> throat, ESPECIALLY if you weren't there or do not know
all
> the
> > > facts.
> > > > > >> When you make assumptions without facts, you just make
> > > yourself look
> > > > > >> bad and create ill will in the group. We have enough
> bickering
> > > here
> > > > > >> lately. Lets work to save our trails, not bicker about
who
> can
> > > play
> > > > > >> where.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Just my $.02
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Chris
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 02:57 PM, Sandee
McCullen
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Sorry for jumping in on this but the issue of doing
trails
> > > via ROCK
> > > > > >>> PAVING
> > > > > >>> needs to stop.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Please "feel excused"........... but the bottom line is
> > > simply: If
> > > > > >>> you
> > > > > >>> cannot traverse a trail without "paving" it with rocks
to
> > > enable you
> > > > > >>> to get
> > > > > >>> through or across an obstacle........ YOU DON'T BELONG
> > > THERE!! The
> > > > > >>> "semi
> > > > > >>> permanent marks" you refer to have NOTHING to do
> > > with "ruining a good
> > > > > >>> trail"........... Rock stacking to the limit of paving
is
> > > what is
> > > > > >>> "ruining
> > > > > >>> the trail" or the "challenge". Throwing a rock now and
> then
> > > to
> > > > > >>> "help"
> > > > > >>> is
> > > > > >>> done by everyone from time to time. Trail courtesy
would
> > > have you
> > > > > >>> REMOVE
> > > > > >>> the rock/s to allow the next vehicle the challenge of
the
> > > obstacle.
> > > > > >>> There
> > > > > >>> are more than enough trails to cause a "challenge" for
> every
> > > level of
> > > > > >>> 4-wheeler...... taking the challenge from the extreme
> > > driver/vehicle
> > > > > >>> is
> > > > > >>> what is causing the problems and is what is in
discussion
> > > from your
> > > > > >>> message.
> > > > > >>> This sport is not about ONE vehicle or driver it's ALL
of
> > > us.........
> > > > > >>> respect for ALL is what will keep our trails open for
all.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Because drivers build vehicles capable of doing rock
> crawling
> > > with
> > > > > >>> no,
> > > > > >>> or
> > > > > >>> very little rock stacking, does NOT MAKE THEM GODS! All
> > > they're
> > > > > >>> asking is
> > > > > >>> the "want-a-be's" that are bound and determined to do
> > > whatever they
> > > > > >>> wish
> > > > > >>> STOP RUINING THEIR CHALLENGE.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> We may see you at the "next BLM meeting" but BLM are not
> > > happy about
> > > > > >>> "rock
> > > > > >>> paving" either............ this DOES CHANGE the
> watershed or
> > > natural
> > > > > >>> layout
> > > > > >>> of the land and WILL get trails closed. Mother Nature
> does a
> > > good
> > > > > >>> job
> > > > > >>> of
> > > > > >>> keeping trails natural but some of the stacking/paving
> > > happening
> > > > > >>> today
> > > > > >>> is
> > > > > >>> well beyond what Mother Nature would do.
> > > > > >>> [FYI, hydrodynamic lession: mooving 4-5 15lb rocks in
the
> > > bottom of
> > > > > >>> a
> > > > > >>>> wash frequented by water moving at several thousand
cubic
> > > feet per
> > > > > >>>> minute is not what I would call "ruining another good
> > > trail."] This
> > > > > >>>> may
> > > > > >>> not, in your humble opinion, be "ruining another good
> trail"
> > > but it
> > > > > >>> is
> > > > > >>> if
> > > > > >>> YOU are stacking rocks and NOT REMOVING them. Mother
> Nature
> > > may
> > > > > >>> make a
> > > > > >>> trail easier or harder but that should be left to
nature
> NOT
> > > YOU or
> > > > > >>> other
> > > > > >>> want-a-be's......... and YES, "I" and my sons have been
> > > wheel'n
> > > > > >>> Arizona and
> > > > > >>> California since BEFORE the early 70's. For whatever
> that's
> > > > > >>> worth??????
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Again, if you cannot traverse a trail or obstacle with
> your
> > > vehicle,
> > > > > >>> winch,
> > > > > >>> tires and/or ability and have to rock PAVE....... You
> don't
> > > belong
> > > > > >>> there.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Sandee
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >>>> From: olneyjeeps [mailto:olneyjeeps@y...]
> > > > > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 2:27 PM
> > > > > >>>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >>>> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: sandy beach trail/stacking rocks
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Excuuuse me for setting tread on a trail which it
appears
> > > you would
> > > > > >>>> like reserved for rock crawling gods as yourself
> > > > > >>>> As it appears you coulden't read the first time from
your
> > > throne:
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> 1) I turned around (over 3 mile in, as a reasonable /
> > > responsible
> > > > > >>>> driver) because I had determined that (at that time) I
> was
> > > not
> > > > > >>>> properly equiped and did not have the resources if I
> were to
> > > get
> > > > > >>>> into
> > > > > >>>> trouble.
> > > > > >>>> 2) I did recommend / advise against attempting without
> lots
> > > of
> > > > > >>>> clearance.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Furthermore in respinse to your comments,
> > > > > >>>> "Lets not ruin another good trail!!!!"
> > > > > >>>> As long as it is not causing long term damage (such as
> the
> > > semi
> > > > > >>>> perminant marks you leave behind while attempting to
> climb
> > > near
> > > > > >>>> vertical "obsticals") it is not my, your, or anyone's
> right
> > > to
> > > > > >>>> say where someone does or does not belong (I don't
recall
> > > seeing you
> > > > > >>>> at the last BLM meeting either)
> > > > > >>>> FYI, hydrodynamic lession: mooving 4-5 15lb rocks in
the
> > > bottom of a
> > > > > >>>> wash frequented by water moving at several thousand
cubic
> > > feet per
> > > > > >>>> minute is not what I would call "ruining another good
> trail."
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> "If you need to stack rocks 20 yards into it, you
do
> > > not belong
> > > > > >>>> on that trail."
> > > > > >>>> I suppose that is why you have a winch mounted (which
I'm
> > > sure you
> > > > > >>>> always use before spinning all four gouging and
spiting
> rock
> > > and
> > > > > >>>> admitting lack of ability to move unassisted). Let's
> compare
> > > > > >>>> possible long term damage: rocks in bottom of wash vs.
> tire
> > > scars on
> > > > > >>>> vertical terrain after futile spinning. Havng attended
> > > several
> > > > > >>>> competitions, I'm sure your spotter has never stacked
a
> rock
> > > or two
> > > > > >>>> for you, right?
> > > > > >>>> By the way, I have been responsibly wheeling / hiking
in
> > > this area
> > > > > >>>> since the early 70's; you?
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> See you at the next BLM meeting
> > > > > >>>> Steve
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Lets not ruin another good trail!!!!
> > > > > >>>>> This trail has been run by experienced drivers and
rigs
> > > equipped to
> > > > > >>>> do it,
> > > > > >>>>> without STACKING ROCKS for years. If you need to stack
> > > rocks 20
> > > > > >>>> yards into
> > > > > >>>>> it, you do not belong on that trail.
> > > > > >>>>> There are plenty of trails out there for everyones
> level.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Todd
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: new member/ sandy beach
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Earlier this year, after talking with many people and
> > > surveying
> > > > > >>>>> from
> > > > > >>>>>> the air, I led a group on the sandy beach trail.
> > > > > >>>>>> The first 3miles are very easy. The next mile is
really
> > > really
> > > > > >>>>> really
> > > > > >>>>>> nasty. Because the other members of the group did
not
> > > want to go
> > > > > >>>> further,
> > > > > >>>>>> I (78CJ7 4" lift,33x12.5 BFG's+f+r lockers) only the
> first
> > > 20-30
> > > > > >>>> yards; it
> > > > > >>>>>> took about 30 minutes + broken shackle + lots of
> stacking+
> > > body
> > > > > >>>> damage to
> > > > > >>>>>> get back out.
> > > > > >>>>>> I would love to lead another groop (challange/hint
> hint)
> > > but
> > > > > >>>>> required
> > > > > >>>>>> equipment would be:
> > > > > >>>>>> minumum 33x125, 35+ (33's=lot of body damage
probable)
> > > > > >>>>>> Front and rear lockers
> > > > > >>>>>> winch + hooks strong back (rocks are heavy)
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Call if interested
> > > > > >>>>>> Steve Olney
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > >
__________________________________________________ _______________
> > > > > >>>>> From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite
> music
> > > is always
> > > > > >>>> playing
> > > > > >>>>> on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE!
> > > > > >>>>> http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > >>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > >>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
94337 From: CANT W8 <rlpii@q...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:58pm
Subject: Re: sandy beach trail/stacking rocks
Repeat after me:
"I will not stack rocks, I will not stack rocks, I will not stack
rocks, . . . . . . . . . . .
but if I do,
I will unstack rocks, I will unstack rocks, I will unstack rocks."
Say it with conviction now!
All responsible 4 wheelers and loyal AZVJC members will repeat this at
least 3 times a day for the next 25 years. By then I will be dead and
won't care.
"Can't we all just get along" - Rodney King.
Just my feable attempt at a little humor to lighten the moment. :o)
Take care all,
Bob
74 CJ-5
CANT W8
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Schenk" <tomschenk1@y...> wrote:
>
> I'm going to stack rocks at will on every trail I ever go on again
> without exeption until you people shut the hell up.
> xoxo,
> Tom S.
94338 From: Joe West <joe.west@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:10pm
Subject: RE: [Tech] - Removing the Airbag for a 2001 TJ
Hi Robert,
It really is a simple removal process... the best thing for you to do is call Darner Jeep and have them order the service manual for your Jeep. Remember to tell them that you are with the AZVJC so you can get the 25% discount.
Joe
Joe F. West
Applications Consultant Synopsys Corporation
Cell (650)861-1359 Office (480) 733-2147
Blackberry PIN 2005DD8F
-----Original Message-----
From: AzVJC Website [mailto:azvjc@a...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 5:20 PM
To: AzVJC
Subject: [az_vjc] [Tech] - Removing the Airbag for a 2001 TJ
Does anyone have any suggestions with removing a steering wheel with an air bag or know of anyone who can do the work? I haven't done anything with airbags before and prefer the help of someone with experience.
Robert Phillips
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
94339 From: <doccycle@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 0:31pm
Subject: stacking rocks
I really think it is important to be able to get your rocks off once in a
while
Carl
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94340 From: Ken Henson <khenson@c...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:25pm
Subject: Re: speaking of camping... Bagdad/Camp Wood area..
On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 01:35 PM, intertwingled wrote:
> Speaking of camping, what kind of camping and offroading opportunities
> exist around the Burro Creek/Bagdad/Camp Wood area? Also, (this
> question is I guess for Sandy =)), what exactly is (or maybe used to be
> now) the Luis Maria Baca Land Grant that is up in that area?
>
> Thanks,
> Tony
>
The Grant is totally closed. I worked for the Forest Service in the
late 60s and the roads were open part of the time, but now it is closed
to all outsiders.
There are a lot of nice camping sites around the Camp Wood area. The
school and the fire guard station have been torn down by the Forest
Service. The old Walnut Creek Ranger Station is now in the hands of
some group or maybe has something to do with Prescott College, I am not
sure.
There are some cool roads that go from the highway to Bagdad through
the Yolo Ranch property and on to the Camp Wood area. The roads are
badly washed out (I have been told) and it would take rock stacking
(you could read this as trail maintenance) to get a built Jeep
through. From Prescott out and back is about 150 miles. The No Club
Club (4*4 Group) as made the run a couple of times in the last two
years.
Ken Henson
Prescott
94341 From: <hunteroffroad@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 1:30pm
Subject: Re: Kumbaya my lord... Kumbaya...RE: Re: sandy beach trail/stacking ...
In a message dated 11/12/2003 1:49:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,
joe.west@s... writes:
The horse is dead... let's stop beating it and eat the damn thing around the
campfire as we all sing...
Kumbaya my lord... Kumbaya...
LMAO!!!!!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94342 From: Jim Russell <desertjeep@c...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 7:33pm
Subject: Re: The Dead Horse
Well said Joe, I kinda thought 2 or 3 or 4 days of this stuff was enough!
Jim
Tucson
PS. Singing Oh Lord, Kumbaya !!
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:45:45 -0800
From: "Joe West" <joe.west@s...>
Subject: Kumbaya my lord... Kumbaya...RE: Re: sandy beach trail/stacking rocks
The horse is dead... let's stop beating it and eat the damn thing around the campfire as we all sing...
Kumbaya my lord... Kumbaya...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94343 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:01pm
Subject: [TR] Trip Report - Chivo Falls - Wednesday, November 12, 2003
Hello All,
Steve Pearson lead a trail run Wednesday, November 12, 2003 across Chivo Falls
We had a fun, rain soaked, muddy time at Chivo Falls. From AZVJC we had Lonnie and I. Joining us from my work were Frank and Israel. Frank left his well built Landcruiser (without a top!) in the garage and rode along with me. Lonnie was kind enough to carry Israel. Lonnie's mission was to talk Israel into buying a Jeep. While Israel turned down an offer to stop at the Jeep Dealership on the way back, I believe that the "wheels" are turning in his ol' noggin!<br>
<br>
Chivo Falls were a beautiful "BROWN". A result of last summer's fire in the Rincons.
http://www.azvjc.org/default.asp?A=1&ID=1088
Click the above link to View Pictures (if available)Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
94319 From: Sharky <sharxjeep@c...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:13pm
Subject: Rebuilding the McNasty McWrangler
Well, Ive got a living room full of Jeep parts ready to go...
Attached are a few pics of the progress as of yesterday. Shes been
coming along and I cant wait to see it when it is all done :)
A big thanks to Duffy and everyone whos involved, I know youve got
better things to do! :)
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?
action=viewall&albumID=99327651
Thanks
Sharky
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
94320 From: Wade Ungaro <swaders7@y...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:18pm
Subject: Re: Rebuilding the McNasty McWrangler
That link doesn't work even if you copy and paste it.
~Wade
Sharky <sharxjeep@c...> wrote:
Well, Ive got a living room full of Jeep parts ready to go...
Attached are a few pics of the progress as of yesterday. Shes been
coming along and I cant wait to see it when it is all done :)
A big thanks to Duffy and everyone whos involved, I know youve got
better things to do! :)
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?
action=viewall&albumID=99327651
Thanks
Sharky
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
~Wade
'97 "Blue Cactus" TJ
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/swaders7/
http://www.theungaros.com
http://www.azvjc.org
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94321 From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:32pm
Subject: Re: Rebuilding the McNasty McWrangler
McWrangler. What a perfect name for the 1994 YJ. I hate you, Lee
Iacocca! >=(
Tony
Sharky wrote:
>Well, Ive got a living room full of Jeep parts ready to go...
>Attached are a few pics of the progress as of yesterday. Shes been
>coming along and I cant wait to see it when it is all done :)
>A big thanks to Duffy and everyone whos involved, I know youve got
>better things to do! :)
>
>http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?
>action=viewall&albumID=99327651
>
>Thanks
>Sharky
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
94322 From: Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:32pm
Subject: Re: CJ7 Soft Doors
I've got a pair of CJ-5 soft doors but with the curved bottom I think
they'd leave a large gap at the bottom/rear. Still, you're welcome to
come by and try them on for size and their yours if you want them. I
was going to chop them down for half-doors but don't really need to
anymore.
Call my cell at 480-239-4182 or just drop by - I'm here all day every
day during the week.
3472 E. Geronimo Ct.
Gilbert
Matt
K7MTO
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@j...> wrote:
> Need some help finding soft doors for a CJ7 (I think the CJ5 doors
will work
> also).
> Anybody know where I can get a used set?
94323 From: Dave Peterson <gonzodave@y...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:48pm
Subject: Re: Re: CJ7 Soft Doors
The door openings between a CJ-5 and a CJ-7 are completely different. I
think CJ-7 and YJ doors are interchangeable, though.
Gonzo
--- Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...> wrote:
> I've got a pair of CJ-5 soft doors but with the curved bottom I think
> they'd leave a large gap at the bottom/rear. Still, you're welcome to
> come by and try them on for size and their yours if you want them. I
> was going to chop them down for half-doors but don't really need to
> anymore.
>
> Call my cell at 480-239-4182 or just drop by - I'm here all day every
> day during the week.
>
> 3472 E. Geronimo Ct.
> Gilbert
>
> Matt
> K7MTO
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@j...> wrote:
> > Need some help finding soft doors for a CJ7 (I think the CJ5 doors
> will work
> > also).
> > Anybody know where I can get a used set?
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________
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94324 From: Sharky <sharxjeep@c...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:01pm
Subject: why wont this work...
Im trying to send some pics of the Jeep but it wont let me...any
ideas?
Sharky
94325 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:14pm
Subject: Re: why wont this work...
They turned off the attachment feature because of all the viruses.
When you sent the link, you sent it while you were logged in to your
own album. See if there is a link to send an invite to a friend. Then,
send it to yourself. Then post the link it sends you.
Chris
On Nov 12, 2003, at 4:01 PM, Sharky wrote:
> Im trying to send some pics of the Jeep but it wont let me...any
> ideas?
>
> Sharky
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
94326 From: enb4w <enb4w@e...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:20pm
Subject: Items for sale
I have a TJ Rear deck rack and a set of 456 gears for a dana 44 brand
new in the box. The Rack is used and I am looking for $50.00 or best
offer and I am looking for $125.00 for the gears.
Please contact me via email at jhalvorsen@c... if you are interested
and I will send you my email.
94327 From: Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:26pm
Subject: Re: Freeway Opening display - This Saturday
I poked around the BLM website and found this doc which might be a
good handout. It's got high-level info about the BLM and how it
manages public lands. It's only 6 pages but has lots of eye candy in
the form of pictures and maps which makes it easier to read then a
dry text-only document. We can hand it out with AZVJC cards
(hopefully) and explain how we work closely with the BLM on
Recreation issues.
http://www.blm.gov/nhp/pubs/BLMBrochure.pdf
If I get a chance, I'll try and get some printed/copied at Kinkos,
but others might also in the event I can't.
There's also lots of good info at
http://www.recreation.gov and http://www.recreationmaps.gov
although it's mostly web-based and not alot of good material to print.
Matt
K7MTO
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Bob Jacques <bjacques@m...> wrote:
> Hi all and thanks for the interest and attendance... I will be
posting
> more later today or Thursday, just wanted to update everyone... We
have a TV
> and VCR coming and a generator to run them... Need Tapes !! How
about Land
> use handouts or cellophane enclosed copies to have at the table for
> reference !!?? Can anyone make a few cards with the logo and
website addy
> on them to hand out ?? John k, do you have the Banner?? If yes, I
will P/U
> today/Thurs... How about some folding/lawn chairs?? Anyone have
an EZ up
> for shade?? We have water and Ice coming.... Anything else? If
you have
> any ideas for handouts please send them to me today!!
> Thanks, Bob J
94328 From: Joe-CJ7 <Joe-CJ7@j...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:52pm
Subject: RE: Re: CJ7 Soft Doors
So you do not think they will work?
I am completely OK with a gap at the bottom. The big thing is if they
will latch closed.
Joe Kearney
Joe-CJ7@J...
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Peterson [mailto:gonzodave@y...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 3:48 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: CJ7 Soft Doors
The door openings between a CJ-5 and a CJ-7 are completely different. I
think CJ-7 and YJ doors are interchangeable, though.
Gonzo
--- Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...> wrote:
> I've got a pair of CJ-5 soft doors but with the curved bottom I think
> they'd leave a large gap at the bottom/rear. Still, you're welcome to
> come by and try them on for size and their yours if you want them. I
> was going to chop them down for half-doors but don't really need to
> anymore.
>
> Call my cell at 480-239-4182 or just drop by - I'm here all day every
> day during the week.
>
> 3472 E. Geronimo Ct.
> Gilbert
>
> Matt
> K7MTO
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@j...> wrote:
> > Need some help finding soft doors for a CJ7 (I think the CJ5 doors
> will work
> > also).
> > Anybody know where I can get a used set?
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________
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Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
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94329 From: Joe-CJ7 <Joe-CJ7@j...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:54pm
Subject: RE: doors
I do not know and I am sorry I don't.
Does anyone else know which ones I might need?
Joe Kearney
Joe-CJ7@J...
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve olney [mailto:olneyjeeps@y...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 4:20 PM
To: Joe-CJ7
Subject: RE: doors
square or round corner?
_____
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94330 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:53pm
Subject: Moab Trails under assault
I got this off JU. I plan to do some letter writing and I suggest everyone
else follow suit. This area is targeted hard by the anti-recreation groups.
The Bureau of Land management is responsible for over 3.6 million acres of
public land in Grand and San Juan counties in Utah. A Resource Management
Plan (RMP)
Is the document that guides the Management and policies of the land it
covers.
The next RMP will guide decision making in these areas for the next 15
years.
By Federal law, the BLM must consider public opinion in the preparation of
the RMP. That is where we come in.
The Moab meeting was on OCT. 16th. About fifty people attended, but only 5
from the Red Rock 4 wheelers. MOST attendees were strong advocates of either
severely restricting or totally eliminating all motorized use on BLM land.
We are clearly outnumbered!
The good news is that public comments will be taken until Dec 30, 2003.
We must make our voices heard if we have any hope of having our wishes and
concerns being considered in the final draft of RMP.
We need all 4-wheelers to write a few comments of how important continued
motorized access is to us all in Moab. You can write or email the BLM office
www.moabrmp.com or www.monticellormp.com
Thanks MoabMike
Arizona RockRats President
http://www.rockrats.org/
"I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member" Groucho
Marx
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
94331 From: Sharky <sharxjeep@c...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:04pm
Subject: try again...
oops, sorry...
http://community.webshots.com/user/sharxjeep
Thanks
Sharky
94332 From: Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:09pm
Subject: Re: doors
See this site for info on various Jeep body styles/features...
http://www.jedi.com/obiwan/jeep/misc/models.html
Look at the pics of the CJ-5 and CJ-7 and note the shape of the door
openings to understand why the CJ-5 door would leave a large gap/hole
at the lower/rear corner of the CJ-7 door opening.
CJ-5 - The civilian version of the M38A1, but with the front shackles
under the bumper like most other models. 81" ('55-'71) or 84" ('72-
'83) wheelbase. Front fenders are rounded like all subsequent short-
wheelbase Jeeps. Easily distinguished from the CJ-7 by a small
doorway with a rounded, sloping rear edge.
CJ-7 - A compromise between the CJ-5 and CJ-6, having a 93.4"
wheelbase (like the YJ and TJ). The body tub is very similar to the
YJ and TJ, but the rear wheel wells are round instead of angular.
Made '76-'86.
Matt
K7MTO
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Joe-CJ7" <Joe-CJ7@j...> wrote:
> I do not know and I am sorry I don't.
>
>
>
> Does anyone else know which ones I might need?
>
>
>
>
>
> Joe Kearney
>
> Joe-CJ7@J...
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve olney [mailto:olneyjeeps@y...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 4:20 PM
> To: Joe-CJ7
> Subject: RE: doors
>
>
>
> square or round corner?
>
> _____
>
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
> <http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94333 From: Dave Peterson <gonzodave@y...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:17pm
Subject: RE: Re: CJ7 Soft Doors
Joe,
As you've probably already seen, Matt O'Brien posted a link to a site that
describes the difference in the door openings. But even if you're okay
with a *huge* gap in the lower rear corner, I don't think the top part of
the door will fit, either. I think the distance on a CJ-5 from the
windshield to the top (measuring front-to-rear) is less than the distance
on a CJ-7 - although I've never measured this distance and don't know for
sure.
But basically, no, I don't think a CJ-5 door will work.
Dave
--- Joe-CJ7 <Joe-CJ7@J...> wrote:
> So you do not think they will work?
>
> I am completely OK with a gap at the bottom. The big thing is if they
> will latch closed.
>
> Joe Kearney
> Joe-CJ7@J...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Peterson [mailto:gonzodave@y...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 3:48 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: CJ7 Soft Doors
>
> The door openings between a CJ-5 and a CJ-7 are completely different. I
> think CJ-7 and YJ doors are interchangeable, though.
>
> Gonzo
>
> --- Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...> wrote:
> > I've got a pair of CJ-5 soft doors but with the curved bottom I think
> > they'd leave a large gap at the bottom/rear. Still, you're welcome to
> > come by and try them on for size and their yours if you want them. I
> > was going to chop them down for half-doors but don't really need to
> > anymore.
> >
> > Call my cell at 480-239-4182 or just drop by - I'm here all day every
> > day during the week.
> >
> > 3472 E. Geronimo Ct.
> > Gilbert
> >
> > Matt
> > K7MTO
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@j...> wrote:
> > > Need some help finding soft doors for a CJ7 (I think the CJ5 doors
> > will work
> > > also).
> > > Anybody know where I can get a used set?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
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>
>
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>
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94334 From: Fred Wilson <fredtj@c...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:19pm
Subject: Re: why wont this work...
The az_vjc list server was changed a while back to not allow attachments.
Fred
Sharky wrote:
> Im trying to send some pics of the Jeep but it wont let me...any
>ideas?
>
>Sharky
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
94335 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:20pm
Subject: [Tech] - Removing the Airbag for a 2001 TJ
Does anyone have any suggestions with removing a steering wheel with an air bag or know of anyone who can do the work? I haven't done anything with airbags before and prefer the help of someone with experience.
Robert Phillips
94336 From: Tom Schenk <tomschenk1@y...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:49pm
Subject: Re: sandy beach trail/stacking rocks
I'm going to stack rocks at will on every trail I ever go on again
without exeption until you people shut the hell up.
xoxo,
Tom S.
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "olneyjeeps" <olneyjeeps@y...> wrote:
> One more time real slow for you as it appears you have had troubles
> understanding my previous posts (as quoted from prior post):
> "
> I
> do not,
> did not,
> and
> never will
> condone
> "paving"
> "
>
> the baseline requirments for attending were:
> ""required
> > equipment would be:
> > minumum 33x125, 35+ (33's=lot of body damage probable)
> > Front and rear lockers
> > winch + hooks
> > strong back (rocks are heavy)"
>
> NEVER was the act of "paving" mentioned
> I ALWAYS try to be prepared for worst case scenerio (is this not
why
> we bring jacks,winch,hooks,strap,gloves).
> Just because I like to be prepared (as any responsible person would
> be) does NOT mean I intend/plan on using such devices.
> Do you / hard core wheelers use spotters who can not move a rock if
> absolutely necessary? Why would you expect me/anyone not to be
> prepared if necessary?
>
> Finally, although worded slopily at 3AM (due to power outage) I
> (although, as I said, I would not, nor would I condone paving)
would
> prefer any open trail to a closed trail. It is my position that NO
> ONE (sierra club or you) has the right to deny responsible access
to
> any land (they do not own, i.e. NASCAR)
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee McCullen" <mccullen@c...>
> wrote:
> > Nice to know someone is going to "take full credit for closure to
> OHV trails
> > and access"!!!!!!
> >
> > [[My position is that these lands must
> > > remain open (gonna lose some friende here) even if it has to be
> > > paved.]]
> >
> > PAVING and making by-passes will not keep lands / trails open.
> >
> > Thanks to recreationists like you we ALL WILL LOSE. NO ONE, not
> me, not
> > Chris, not Todd has said anything about "rock
> > stacking"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have NOT been talking
> about "rock
> > stacking" or "throwing a rock or two to help"....... you have
been
> talking
> > (as quoted above) about PAVING. Making the trail easier so you
> and/or
> > everyone/anyone can traverse it is called PAVING.
Again .........
> this kind
> > of action and/or attitude will, and does, reflect on all of us
and
> WILL
> > close our access whether you believe it or not!
> >
> > All the messages to you regarding "rocking" have been strictly
> stating:
> > "Don't go in if you plan on PAVING or making a by-pass. Making
the
> trail
> > easier is not the same as "helping" a vehicle through. Simple
trail
> > etiquette calls for "removing" rocks placed to 'help'. Don't
talk
> about
> > "competition" rock crawling in regards to "rock stacking".......
> ALL
> > competitions REQUIRE ALL ROCKS TO BE REMOVED and these guys don't
> do much
> > 'rock stacking' as they simply do not have the time to do so.
This
> is an
> > example of what you've been told throughout these
> posts......... "Leave the
> > challenge for the vehicles capable of meeting it". No one has
told
> you you
> > should never try a harder trail; no one has told you 'they have
> specific
> > trails and you don't'; no one has denied your right to "see our
> beautiful
> > country"........ you have only been asked to "drive where you
are
> capable
> > of, play where you are capable of".......... WITHOUT ruining
not
> only the
> > challenge but the trail as a whole.
> >
> > Let me tell you a short story of a possibility we are all facing
> because of
> > attitudes like yours:
> > With the new RMP's being done there is consideration of the 3.5
and
> less
> > trails will be assessed and mapped........ ALL extreme trails
will
> be
> > identified as: "Special Recreation Areas" and will require a
permit
> to
> > access at all times..... Like Bull Dog Wash on the Tonto
National
> Forest
> > BUT......... the agencies are considering a way to "tech" EACH
> VEHICLE for
> > proper equipment and EACH driver will have to sign a waiver
> stating "all
> > info to be true". Then........... if any driver is caught rock
> paving or
> > making by-passes they will be financially liable to return the
area
> back to
> > it's original condition.
> >
> > Yes, I know, you're thinking "yeh, right".............. same as
I
> have. We
> > probably all know this kind of lock down is impossible but they
ARE
> > considering something in this light............... BECAUSE of
> attitudes
> > like yours!!! Aren't you proud???!!
> >
> > Just because we're talking about PUBLIC lands does not give
> EVERYONE the
> > right to do as they please. I believe Chris mentioned to you
that
> there
> > WILL BE numerous areas designated for SPECIFIC
> recreation.......... That is
> > what an IES is about. Certain areas just are not conducive to
ALL
> types or
> > levels of recreation as you seem to think.
> >
> > I have been 4-wheeling probably longer than you've been on this
> earth and
> > have always cherished my 4-wheeling friends. They have been
> supportive and
> > considerate........... you certainly change that picture.
> >
> > Two words left........... GROW UP. Sandee
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: olneyjeeps [mailto:olneyjeeps@y...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 3:22 AM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: sandy beach trail/stacking rocks
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you for showing your true colors - self ritcous pompus
> > > controlling wannabe get to tell everyone where they can or
cannot
> go
> > > based on how you thought it would possibly change the run;
> > > As you may have been deaf and blind at the last blm meeting. I
> and my
> > > family enjoy exploring what shrinking habatat there is. They
> should
> > > not be limited to the hiking "elite". Nor should they be
limited
> to
> > > the "extreeme four wheeler" My position is that these lands must
> > > remain open (gonna lose some friende here) even if it has to be
> > > paved.
> > >
> > > No One should have sole right to the beauty / solitude /
> challange.
> > > This or any canyon is not for any one group. The more people
that
> > > see theese trails, the more people will want to preserve it. The
> > > trail is a trail, not your private playground. Not too long
ago
> your
> > > house was bare desart, get rid of the stacking there so you may
> have
> > > your own private playground.
> > > AlthoughI do not advocate wheel spinning, rockstatking, or
> winching
> > > thry do have their place in rare occasions, It is imperrative
> these
> > > lands remain open to ALL (forgive me for yelling) and not just
the
> > > owners of fab shops creating vehicles by whose standards leave
> 90% of
> > > the club "not worthy" / wannabees (how many of you that dont'
have
> > > 60's front and rear,4link airlockers, 44's etc realized you
were
> just
> > > labeled a wanabe, and therefore, by Ms. McCullen's judgement
owing
> > > gratitude for being allowed to travel the trails she and her
sons
> no
> > > longer consider "challanging"? Maybe we should rent heavy
> equipment
> > > and go in and tear up the trails so that no one (except Sandy
and
> > > her sons) can enjoy.
> > >
> > > In response to your comment referring to my comment as "sounds
> like
> > > like the green eye of
> > > > jealousy to me." Give me a break. There is not a speck
> > > (possesions, ability or otherwise) that you and your world
> traveled
> > > multi lingual college educated kids and their "toys" have that I
> > > would waste on starting a fire. My girls love spending time
with
> me
> > > exploring in the Jeeps. I need nothing more to garner their
full
> > > love and devotion.
> > >
> > > Public land is public land. Just as I fight to keep the Sierra
> Club
> > > from blocking off land for a limited few, I resent Sandy and
> others
> > > for claiming that they have exclusive right to any area.
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Sandee McCullen" <mccullen@c...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > OK........... my apologies in the use of "YOU". It was
meant
> to be
> > > > directed at anyone that is into a trail they don't
belong.....
> or
> > > those that
> > > > seem to believe PAVING is simply a way to allow them to go
where
> > > they
> > > > please! Yes, caps indicate yelling or very strong suggestion
> and
> > > that is
> > > > exactly what I meant. I agree I was not there and I do
> appreciate
> > > the fact
> > > > he did turn around, but he also slams the extreme wheeler and
> > > indicated he
> > > > had as much right on those trails as anyone else. NO he does
> > > not.........
> > > > not if it means the extreme wheeler has to lose any/all
> challenge
> > > they have
> > > > because someone wants to "do what the big guys do". I'm so
> tired
> > > of this
> > > > attitude and mentality. Just because someone builds a vehicle
> > > capable of
> > > > doing almost anything does not make them "the big guy",
> or "GOD",
> > > or anyone
> > > > any different than you, I or the first time 4-wheeler.
> > > >
> > > > There were comments comparing the "damage" the buggies or rock
> > > crawlers do
> > > > ............ like leaving "semi-permanent marks" on the
rocks.
> Or
> > > climbing
> > > > "near vertical obstacles"........ sounds like like the green
> eye of
> > > > jealousy to me. This is not damage........ paving or making
> by-
> > > passes IS
> > > > damage and abuse and these actions are what will close ALL our
> > > trails.
> > > > ......
> > > >
> > > > [As long as it is not causing long term damage (such as the
semi
> > > > > >>>> perminant marks you leave behind while attempting to
> climb
> > > near
> > > > > >>>> vertical "obsticals") it is not my, your, or anyone's
> right
> > > to
> > > > > >>>> say where someone does or does not belong]
> > > >
> > > > This comes across to me as "I'll do as I
please"........ "it's
> my
> > > right to
> > > > stack rocks as long as the day is long", "I don't do any more
> > > damage than
> > > > the "rock scratchers" yada yada yada!! YES, it is MY RIGHT if
> > > these kinds
> > > > of actions lose the only challenge I have within my sport!
> YES, I
> > > AM
> > > > YELLING Chris............... there are way too many
> recreationists
> > > out
> > > > there that simply do NOT get the picture. Too many ATV's tear
> > > across
> > > > country, the 4-wheelers enter trails they are not capable of
> doing,
> > > many
> > > > motorcycles go way to fast............... and we can't seem
to
> > > understand
> > > > "WHY" we're losing everything. The agencies simply do not
want
> to
> > > deal with
> > > > the headaches of the recreationists not being
> responsible. .....
> > > Before
> > > > you go off again, I'm not saying or claiming this Steve
> was "not"
> > > > responsible but his attitude is certainly in the grey area...
> > > > There are LARGE groups of agency planners that feel
the "graded
> > > gravel roads
> > > > should be enough for us". There are also LARGE numbers of new
> > > personnel
> > > > joining the land management agencies and believe
> me.............,
> > > for the
> > > > most part, they are GREEN!!! Everyone seems to be
into "saving"
> > > something.
> > > > Our battles will not be getting easier and abuse such as rock
> > > paving and
> > > > by-passes are the first issues to be held over us. We lost
> > > Jawbreaker
> > > > because of "rock paving"........ had vehicles going
> > > through "DErocked" the
> > > > obstacle after getting through the Tucson BLM wouldn't have
had
> > > anything to
> > > > present to the courts to show "abuse". Game & Fish are no
> better.
> > > If it's
> > > > not wildlife habitat destruction, it's "messing up the
> watershed"
> > > of the
> > > > area or rock stacking is showing to alter the flow because it
> tends
> > > to hold
> > > > silt or gravel instead of allowing it to wash down stream etc
> etc
> > > > etc............. there's desert tortoise, or a lizard, or
> beetle
> > > or a WEED.
> > > > They'll use anything they can to shut out OHV
> recreation.........
> > > WHY do we
> > > > insist on hurting ourselves!!!?
> > > >
> > > > I am rambling and will continue to do so until ALL of my
fellow
> 4-
> > > wheelers
> > > > finally understand that we each have our own level of
wheeling
> and
> > > to mess
> > > > us someone elses challenge just to prove a point, will shut
us
> all
> > > down.
> > > >
> > > > Sandee
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 5:40 PM
> > > > > To: Sandee McCullen
> > > > > Cc: olneyjeeps; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: sandy beach trail/stacking rocks
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I quote you:
> > > > >
> > > > > "If you cannot traverse a trail without "paving" it with
> rocks to
> > > > > enable you to get through or across an obstacle........
YOU
> DON'T
> > > > > BELONG THERE!!"
> > > > >
> > > > > The use of "you" and the caps (internet yelling) make it
look
> > > like it
> > > > > was directed to him. Sorry if I misinterpreted this.
> > > > >
> > > > > Your points are all correct, but it is incorrect to use them
> > > against
> > > > > Steve in this case, since we were not there and have no
idea
> in
> > > what
> > > > > condition he left the trail.
> > > > >
> > > > > If we are going to preach, we should do it in a general
> manner.
> > > It is
> > > > > unfair to use someone else's post about a run to further our
> > > ideas,
> > > > > even if they are good ideas. To some, it will seem like we
are
> > > bashing
> > > > > the post.
> > > > >
> > > > > I read Steve's post and thought it was very responsible
that
> they
> > > did
> > > > > what they did. I gave him the benefit of the doubt that they
> > > unstacked
> > > > > the rock. Remember, innocent until proven guilty works in
may
> ways
> > > > > besides in a court of law, especially with friends and
fellow
> > > wheelers.
> > > > > It was pointed out to me in an email from another member
that
> his
> > > > > also indicated that they might stack rocks if they go back.
> > > Again, I
> > > > > give him the benefit of the doubt that they will unstack
them
> as
> > > well.
> > > > > If they do not, then I will lose and my trust of him will
be
> lost.
> > > > >
> > > > > Remember (and this is my final point since I don't want
this
> to
> > > grow in
> > > > > to more than it has), if we were to never wheel on trails
that
> > > there is
> > > > > the potential that we will have to stack rocks, most of us
> would
> > > never
> > > > > leave the graded dirt road. That would be a shame.
> > > > >
> > > > > Chris
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 03:45 PM, Sandee McCullen
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Chris, I don't think anyone "jumped down anyones
> > > throat".........
> > > > > > simply
> > > > > > stated "rock paving" is ruining our extreme trails and is
> > > hurting us
> > > > > > all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have NO PROBLEM with turning around when finding a
trail
> is
> > > too
> > > > > > tough but
> > > > > > you and I both KNOW that there are waaaaaay too many
> vehicles
> > > going
> > > > > > into
> > > > > > trails they KNOW they are not equipped to do without
> rocking or
> > > making
> > > > > > by-passes! I hear over and over again....... "no problem,
> > > we'll 'pull
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > through'". WHY???? Isn't actually "driving to the
> individual
> > > > > > challenge"
> > > > > > what we're suppose to be about?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I didn't pretend to "be there" and I didn't accuse anyone
of
> > > > > > "semi-permanent" damage. Nor did I accuse the rock
> crawlers of
> > > being
> > > > > > "GODS". My message was to EVERYONE that are doing trails
> above
> > > their
> > > > > > ability, rock paving or making by-passes to get through
to
> stay
> > > within
> > > > > > their
> > > > > > own challenge limitations. These actions WILL affect ALL
> of us
> > > in the
> > > > > > near
> > > > > > future and it won't be what anyone wants to hear. This
> kind of
> > > abuse
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > closing trails across the country. The agencies are
having
> a
> > > tough
> > > > > > enough
> > > > > > time understanding the "challenge" of extreme 4-wheeling,
> but
> > > when all
> > > > > > they
> > > > > > see is the rock paving, by-passes, oil spills, and
> vegetation
> > > winched
> > > > > > out of
> > > > > > the ground they simply declare "abuse and resource
damage"
> and
> > > close
> > > > > > everything. It's going to take ALL of us to truly show
> > > RESPONSIBLE
> > > > > > use of
> > > > > > our recreation trails system................
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The responses from Todd and myself simply stated "to stay
on
> > > trails
> > > > > > within
> > > > > > individual vehicle and/or driver
> capabilities"............. or
> > > > > > "UNSTACK if
> > > > > > the need for rocks is called for".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sandee
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
> > > > > >> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 3:28 PM
> > > > > >> To: Sandee McCullen
> > > > > >> Cc: olneyjeeps; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: sandy beach trail/stacking
rocks
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Sandy and Todd, um, did either of you read his run
> description?
> > > > > >> They turned around after deciding they were beyond their
> > > capabilities.
> > > > > >> The rock stacking was done to get back out. No lectures
> should
> > > be
> > > > > >> given
> > > > > >> because they had no idea what the trail ahead was like.
> > > > > >> In my opinion, they did the sensible thing. They gave it
a
> try
> > > (aren't
> > > > > >> we all allowed to do this, it being public land and
all?)
> and
> > > called
> > > > > >> it
> > > > > >> quits when it became apparent that it was beyond their
> > > capabilities.
> > > > > >> So
> > > > > >> a few rocks were stacked to get them back out. At least
> they
> > > didn't
> > > > > >> just continue on and stack the entire trail as others
> probably
> > > would
> > > > > >> have. Besides, he never said he didn't unstack them.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Everyone, please don't be so quick to jump down the other
> > > guys/girls
> > > > > >> throat, ESPECIALLY if you weren't there or do not know
all
> the
> > > facts.
> > > > > >> When you make assumptions without facts, you just make
> > > yourself look
> > > > > >> bad and create ill will in the group. We have enough
> bickering
> > > here
> > > > > >> lately. Lets work to save our trails, not bicker about
who
> can
> > > play
> > > > > >> where.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Just my $.02
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Chris
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 02:57 PM, Sandee
McCullen
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Sorry for jumping in on this but the issue of doing
trails
> > > via ROCK
> > > > > >>> PAVING
> > > > > >>> needs to stop.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Please "feel excused"........... but the bottom line is
> > > simply: If
> > > > > >>> you
> > > > > >>> cannot traverse a trail without "paving" it with rocks
to
> > > enable you
> > > > > >>> to get
> > > > > >>> through or across an obstacle........ YOU DON'T BELONG
> > > THERE!! The
> > > > > >>> "semi
> > > > > >>> permanent marks" you refer to have NOTHING to do
> > > with "ruining a good
> > > > > >>> trail"........... Rock stacking to the limit of paving
is
> > > what is
> > > > > >>> "ruining
> > > > > >>> the trail" or the "challenge". Throwing a rock now and
> then
> > > to
> > > > > >>> "help"
> > > > > >>> is
> > > > > >>> done by everyone from time to time. Trail courtesy
would
> > > have you
> > > > > >>> REMOVE
> > > > > >>> the rock/s to allow the next vehicle the challenge of
the
> > > obstacle.
> > > > > >>> There
> > > > > >>> are more than enough trails to cause a "challenge" for
> every
> > > level of
> > > > > >>> 4-wheeler...... taking the challenge from the extreme
> > > driver/vehicle
> > > > > >>> is
> > > > > >>> what is causing the problems and is what is in
discussion
> > > from your
> > > > > >>> message.
> > > > > >>> This sport is not about ONE vehicle or driver it's ALL
of
> > > us.........
> > > > > >>> respect for ALL is what will keep our trails open for
all.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Because drivers build vehicles capable of doing rock
> crawling
> > > with
> > > > > >>> no,
> > > > > >>> or
> > > > > >>> very little rock stacking, does NOT MAKE THEM GODS! All
> > > they're
> > > > > >>> asking is
> > > > > >>> the "want-a-be's" that are bound and determined to do
> > > whatever they
> > > > > >>> wish
> > > > > >>> STOP RUINING THEIR CHALLENGE.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> We may see you at the "next BLM meeting" but BLM are not
> > > happy about
> > > > > >>> "rock
> > > > > >>> paving" either............ this DOES CHANGE the
> watershed or
> > > natural
> > > > > >>> layout
> > > > > >>> of the land and WILL get trails closed. Mother Nature
> does a
> > > good
> > > > > >>> job
> > > > > >>> of
> > > > > >>> keeping trails natural but some of the stacking/paving
> > > happening
> > > > > >>> today
> > > > > >>> is
> > > > > >>> well beyond what Mother Nature would do.
> > > > > >>> [FYI, hydrodynamic lession: mooving 4-5 15lb rocks in
the
> > > bottom of
> > > > > >>> a
> > > > > >>>> wash frequented by water moving at several thousand
cubic
> > > feet per
> > > > > >>>> minute is not what I would call "ruining another good
> > > trail."] This
> > > > > >>>> may
> > > > > >>> not, in your humble opinion, be "ruining another good
> trail"
> > > but it
> > > > > >>> is
> > > > > >>> if
> > > > > >>> YOU are stacking rocks and NOT REMOVING them. Mother
> Nature
> > > may
> > > > > >>> make a
> > > > > >>> trail easier or harder but that should be left to
nature
> NOT
> > > YOU or
> > > > > >>> other
> > > > > >>> want-a-be's......... and YES, "I" and my sons have been
> > > wheel'n
> > > > > >>> Arizona and
> > > > > >>> California since BEFORE the early 70's. For whatever
> that's
> > > > > >>> worth??????
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Again, if you cannot traverse a trail or obstacle with
> your
> > > vehicle,
> > > > > >>> winch,
> > > > > >>> tires and/or ability and have to rock PAVE....... You
> don't
> > > belong
> > > > > >>> there.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Sandee
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >>>> From: olneyjeeps [mailto:olneyjeeps@y...]
> > > > > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 2:27 PM
> > > > > >>>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >>>> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: sandy beach trail/stacking rocks
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Excuuuse me for setting tread on a trail which it
appears
> > > you would
> > > > > >>>> like reserved for rock crawling gods as yourself
> > > > > >>>> As it appears you coulden't read the first time from
your
> > > throne:
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> 1) I turned around (over 3 mile in, as a reasonable /
> > > responsible
> > > > > >>>> driver) because I had determined that (at that time) I
> was
> > > not
> > > > > >>>> properly equiped and did not have the resources if I
> were to
> > > get
> > > > > >>>> into
> > > > > >>>> trouble.
> > > > > >>>> 2) I did recommend / advise against attempting without
> lots
> > > of
> > > > > >>>> clearance.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Furthermore in respinse to your comments,
> > > > > >>>> "Lets not ruin another good trail!!!!"
> > > > > >>>> As long as it is not causing long term damage (such as
> the
> > > semi
> > > > > >>>> perminant marks you leave behind while attempting to
> climb
> > > near
> > > > > >>>> vertical "obsticals") it is not my, your, or anyone's
> right
> > > to
> > > > > >>>> say where someone does or does not belong (I don't
recall
> > > seeing you
> > > > > >>>> at the last BLM meeting either)
> > > > > >>>> FYI, hydrodynamic lession: mooving 4-5 15lb rocks in
the
> > > bottom of a
> > > > > >>>> wash frequented by water moving at several thousand
cubic
> > > feet per
> > > > > >>>> minute is not what I would call "ruining another good
> trail."
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> "If you need to stack rocks 20 yards into it, you
do
> > > not belong
> > > > > >>>> on that trail."
> > > > > >>>> I suppose that is why you have a winch mounted (which
I'm
> > > sure you
> > > > > >>>> always use before spinning all four gouging and
spiting
> rock
> > > and
> > > > > >>>> admitting lack of ability to move unassisted). Let's
> compare
> > > > > >>>> possible long term damage: rocks in bottom of wash vs.
> tire
> > > scars on
> > > > > >>>> vertical terrain after futile spinning. Havng attended
> > > several
> > > > > >>>> competitions, I'm sure your spotter has never stacked
a
> rock
> > > or two
> > > > > >>>> for you, right?
> > > > > >>>> By the way, I have been responsibly wheeling / hiking
in
> > > this area
> > > > > >>>> since the early 70's; you?
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> See you at the next BLM meeting
> > > > > >>>> Steve
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Lets not ruin another good trail!!!!
> > > > > >>>>> This trail has been run by experienced drivers and
rigs
> > > equipped to
> > > > > >>>> do it,
> > > > > >>>>> without STACKING ROCKS for years. If you need to stack
> > > rocks 20
> > > > > >>>> yards into
> > > > > >>>>> it, you do not belong on that trail.
> > > > > >>>>> There are plenty of trails out there for everyones
> level.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Todd
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: new member/ sandy beach
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Earlier this year, after talking with many people and
> > > surveying
> > > > > >>>>> from
> > > > > >>>>>> the air, I led a group on the sandy beach trail.
> > > > > >>>>>> The first 3miles are very easy. The next mile is
really
> > > really
> > > > > >>>>> really
> > > > > >>>>>> nasty. Because the other members of the group did
not
> > > want to go
> > > > > >>>> further,
> > > > > >>>>>> I (78CJ7 4" lift,33x12.5 BFG's+f+r lockers) only the
> first
> > > 20-30
> > > > > >>>> yards; it
> > > > > >>>>>> took about 30 minutes + broken shackle + lots of
> stacking+
> > > body
> > > > > >>>> damage to
> > > > > >>>>>> get back out.
> > > > > >>>>>> I would love to lead another groop (challange/hint
> hint)
> > > but
> > > > > >>>>> required
> > > > > >>>>>> equipment would be:
> > > > > >>>>>> minumum 33x125, 35+ (33's=lot of body damage
probable)
> > > > > >>>>>> Front and rear lockers
> > > > > >>>>>> winch + hooks strong back (rocks are heavy)
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Call if interested
> > > > > >>>>>> Steve Olney
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > >
__________________________________________________ _______________
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> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > >>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > >>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >>>
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94337 From: CANT W8 <rlpii@q...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:58pm
Subject: Re: sandy beach trail/stacking rocks
Repeat after me:
"I will not stack rocks, I will not stack rocks, I will not stack
rocks, . . . . . . . . . . .
but if I do,
I will unstack rocks, I will unstack rocks, I will unstack rocks."
Say it with conviction now!
All responsible 4 wheelers and loyal AZVJC members will repeat this at
least 3 times a day for the next 25 years. By then I will be dead and
won't care.
"Can't we all just get along" - Rodney King.
Just my feable attempt at a little humor to lighten the moment. :o)
Take care all,
Bob
74 CJ-5
CANT W8
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Schenk" <tomschenk1@y...> wrote:
>
> I'm going to stack rocks at will on every trail I ever go on again
> without exeption until you people shut the hell up.
> xoxo,
> Tom S.
94338 From: Joe West <joe.west@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:10pm
Subject: RE: [Tech] - Removing the Airbag for a 2001 TJ
Hi Robert,
It really is a simple removal process... the best thing for you to do is call Darner Jeep and have them order the service manual for your Jeep. Remember to tell them that you are with the AZVJC so you can get the 25% discount.
Joe
Joe F. West
Applications Consultant Synopsys Corporation
Cell (650)861-1359 Office (480) 733-2147
Blackberry PIN 2005DD8F
-----Original Message-----
From: AzVJC Website [mailto:azvjc@a...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 5:20 PM
To: AzVJC
Subject: [az_vjc] [Tech] - Removing the Airbag for a 2001 TJ
Does anyone have any suggestions with removing a steering wheel with an air bag or know of anyone who can do the work? I haven't done anything with airbags before and prefer the help of someone with experience.
Robert Phillips
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
94339 From: <doccycle@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 0:31pm
Subject: stacking rocks
I really think it is important to be able to get your rocks off once in a
while
Carl
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94340 From: Ken Henson <khenson@c...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:25pm
Subject: Re: speaking of camping... Bagdad/Camp Wood area..
On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 01:35 PM, intertwingled wrote:
> Speaking of camping, what kind of camping and offroading opportunities
> exist around the Burro Creek/Bagdad/Camp Wood area? Also, (this
> question is I guess for Sandy =)), what exactly is (or maybe used to be
> now) the Luis Maria Baca Land Grant that is up in that area?
>
> Thanks,
> Tony
>
The Grant is totally closed. I worked for the Forest Service in the
late 60s and the roads were open part of the time, but now it is closed
to all outsiders.
There are a lot of nice camping sites around the Camp Wood area. The
school and the fire guard station have been torn down by the Forest
Service. The old Walnut Creek Ranger Station is now in the hands of
some group or maybe has something to do with Prescott College, I am not
sure.
There are some cool roads that go from the highway to Bagdad through
the Yolo Ranch property and on to the Camp Wood area. The roads are
badly washed out (I have been told) and it would take rock stacking
(you could read this as trail maintenance) to get a built Jeep
through. From Prescott out and back is about 150 miles. The No Club
Club (4*4 Group) as made the run a couple of times in the last two
years.
Ken Henson
Prescott
94341 From: <hunteroffroad@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 1:30pm
Subject: Re: Kumbaya my lord... Kumbaya...RE: Re: sandy beach trail/stacking ...
In a message dated 11/12/2003 1:49:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,
joe.west@s... writes:
The horse is dead... let's stop beating it and eat the damn thing around the
campfire as we all sing...
Kumbaya my lord... Kumbaya...
LMAO!!!!!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94342 From: Jim Russell <desertjeep@c...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 7:33pm
Subject: Re: The Dead Horse
Well said Joe, I kinda thought 2 or 3 or 4 days of this stuff was enough!
Jim
Tucson
PS. Singing Oh Lord, Kumbaya !!
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:45:45 -0800
From: "Joe West" <joe.west@s...>
Subject: Kumbaya my lord... Kumbaya...RE: Re: sandy beach trail/stacking rocks
The horse is dead... let's stop beating it and eat the damn thing around the campfire as we all sing...
Kumbaya my lord... Kumbaya...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
94343 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:01pm
Subject: [TR] Trip Report - Chivo Falls - Wednesday, November 12, 2003
Hello All,
Steve Pearson lead a trail run Wednesday, November 12, 2003 across Chivo Falls
We had a fun, rain soaked, muddy time at Chivo Falls. From AZVJC we had Lonnie and I. Joining us from my work were Frank and Israel. Frank left his well built Landcruiser (without a top!) in the garage and rode along with me. Lonnie was kind enough to carry Israel. Lonnie's mission was to talk Israel into buying a Jeep. While Israel turned down an offer to stop at the Jeep Dealership on the way back, I believe that the "wheels" are turning in his ol' noggin!<br>
<br>
Chivo Falls were a beautiful "BROWN". A result of last summer's fire in the Rincons.
http://www.azvjc.org/default.asp?A=1&ID=1088
Click the above link to View Pictures (if available)Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website