blooddrive
01-08-2004, 09:13 PM
89002-89026
89002 From: <flexnxj1@a...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 6:20am
Subject: Re: The coves were disgusting
Yea, I know I was just thinking sometime in the future. But, It's never too
hot for them to destroy the land that we try to take care of and not lose.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
89003 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 10:48am
Subject: RE: Re: A big thanks!!!
Thanks Stu. They worked on it all night and were able to make it up to the
run.
You Da Man!
Frank
http://groups.msn.com/BadAzXJ
http://groups.msn.com/badazxj/arizonaundertakers.msnw
>From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
>To: "'jetowle2000'" <James.Towle@a...>, az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: A big thanks!!!
>Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 08:47:22 -0700
>
>James, it was about 9:00 PM when Paul picked up the mount. He was at
>Camp Verde when he realized he needed a mount....nothing was going to be
>open by the time he got to Phoenix.
>
>Stu Olson
>www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: jetowle2000 [mailto:James.Towle@a...]
>Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 8:35 AM
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Re: A big thanks!!!
>
>
>I was wondering, didn't 4 Wheelers Supply have one? I would have
>lent you mine, in favor of me getting a new one, but mine is a pita
>to replace.
>
>Glad to hear everything worked out.
>
>--James
>
>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Tenniswood" <rockjeep76@y...>
>wrote:
> >
> >
> > Just wanted to thank Stu for the tranny mount that got my
> > cousin out on the trail today....THANKS STU...you saved the day..
> >
> > Paul CJ76
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________ _______________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
89004 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 11:01am
Subject: RE: 2001tj transmission pan
Mike,
I've pulled skids several times and have supported the engine/tranny at
the bell housing, or just behind it.
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Buckner [mailto:mrbuckner@a...]
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 9:12 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] 2001tj transmission pan
Good morning,
I would like to get my high capacity transmission pan installed
today. After reading the FSM, I may need to loosen up the skid
plate to install the new pan. Can anyone recommend blocking points
while the installation is being done?
Best regards,
Mike
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
89005 From: Kevin Gallagher <GIThunder81@c...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 11:42am
Subject: RE: The coves were disgusting
Maybe we can write our congressman and pass a law that states if 2 or
more person witness someone litering our trails they are authorized to
shoot on sight? That would be nice, then maybe I could convince my boss
to go trail riding with me and tell him litering is ok :).... Wait I am
the Boss.
-----Original Message-----
From: flexnxj1@a... [mailto:flexnxj1@a...]
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 10:20 AM
To: solson8@q...; abarvitz@c...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] The coves were disgusting
Yea, I know I was just thinking sometime in the future. But, It's never
too
hot for them to destroy the land that we try to take care of and not
lose.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
89006 From: Mike H. <hiett710@y...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 0:53pm
Subject: Aloha!
Just wanted to rub in the fact that I'm checkin' my E-mail and group
messages from Kauai (Hawaii). Not a whole lot of Jeepin per se but
we rented a little TJ and are driving arround with the top down in
the middle of the summer (84 degrees).
Aloha,
Mike H.
P.S. I am truly now a member of the VJC Light Riders!
Maybe I should start the HI VJC while I'm out here :)
89007 From: <chaton602phx@a...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 9:23am
Subject: Re: The coves were disgusting
you cant be that bad of a guy to want to shoot yourself. I'm here for
you---------I am your friend. LOL!
Anthony
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
89008 From: yzguyone25 <YZGUYONE25@m...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:00pm
Subject: Re: The coves were disgusting
Just my brief .02
I have been to the coves once, but I know there are tons of people
out there to enjoy themselves. Unfortunately not many can keep their
messes clean. This makes the ORV community look bad even though it
may not be directly us.
Why don't we schedule a cleanup sometime soon? Sure it may be hot,
but that shouldn't stop us. It is our land and our fun memories that
are getting pushed closer and closer to becoming zero. The longer we
wait the worse it looks on us. I know it's unbelievably hot out
there, but we could do this in the early AM or evening. I think we
just need to bring along lots of water and shade.
I guess I just don't think the heat should stop us from possibly
losing our land. If the place looks as bad as everyone states then
lets get something together. Just think about all the memories and
good times out there. I know I will gladly be there if we get
something going!
Respectfully,
Justin Olson
89009 From: <chaton602phx@a...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 10:02am
Subject: Re: The coves were disgusting
I think that the forest service, or whoever is making the money from permits
and parking fees, should have a booth at the entrance (a manned booth) of
butcher Jones beach and charge for parking and check for permits for those who
want to picnic or wheel. as was said, none of those illegals will purchase a
permit, and many people just wont take the time to purchase one because they have
to get off their lazy asses in order to do so. their should be a law; you must
be a citizen of the united states in order to purchase a permit. you have to
admit, when you first enter the parking lot, all you see is immigrants, at
least 98%. when wheelin through the coves one time at night, I noticed a bunch of
teenagers drinking and throwing their beer cans into the fire. there are a
lot of teenagers out there on the weekends and at night just getting their party
on and don't care about picking up the trash they leave. lets build a great
wall of Arizona with a magnetic card reader. then we could use those useless
magnetic strips on the back of our licenses to open the gates to enter and exit.
great idea, lets get started!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
89010 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:21pm
Subject: RE: Re: The coves were disgusting
Justin,
Another club member scheduled a clean-up once, for August, at another
wheelin' sight. Rather than the 50 or 75 people that we usually get (I
believe we had at least that many at the Coves the last time), we had
about 10 or 12. We busted our butts in that heat....and it was anything
but a "come on out with the family and have a good time with your fellow
club members" event. While we made some small impact on the amount of
trash that was there, it didn't look all that good in the eyes of the
land management folks (in my opinion) when only a dozen people came to
clean up.
Like I said, you can schedule a cleanup if you wish, but I honestly
believe you are doing this club a disfavor by doing so. I've attended
just about every cleanup the club has done and several of them this club
has not hosted. I will help on the next cleanup....but I won't be doing
it if it is 110 degrees.
Just my 2 cents.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: yzguyone25 [mailto:YZGUYONE25@m...]
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 2:01 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: The coves were disgusting
Just my brief .02
I have been to the coves once, but I know there are tons of people
out there to enjoy themselves. Unfortunately not many can keep their
messes clean. This makes the ORV community look bad even though it
may not be directly us.
Why don't we schedule a cleanup sometime soon? Sure it may be hot,
but that shouldn't stop us. It is our land and our fun memories that
are getting pushed closer and closer to becoming zero. The longer we
wait the worse it looks on us. I know it's unbelievably hot out
there, but we could do this in the early AM or evening. I think we
just need to bring along lots of water and shade.
I guess I just don't think the heat should stop us from possibly
losing our land. If the place looks as bad as everyone states then
lets get something together. Just think about all the memories and
good times out there. I know I will gladly be there if we get
something going!
Respectfully,
Justin Olson
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
89011 From: firstkitcarson <kcarson@c...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:09pm
Subject: Re: The coves were disgusting
I've been out there the last two weekends in a row. I was pleased to
see some boaters filling up trash bags before getting back in their
boats. I think it was a youth program.
Trash is a problem there, but if everyone brings a couple of trash
bags with them on EVERY trail, we could not only get a handle on the
problem, but also set an example.
I encountered two other problems while out there yesterday.
On the way out, two trucks almost plowed into me head on. The first
one was on a two way wash driving like a bat out of hell and appeared
to not be paying attention at all. I had to blow my horn to get him
to notice me, then he nearly rolled his truck to avoid me. At least
he took the right side path when the wash split.
His buddy following behind did the exact same thing. I had to blow my
horn to get him to notice me! I was directly in front of these
yahoos! One should not have to use the horn to get there attention.
To make matters worse, the second guy takes the LEFT wash and almost
runs head on into my buddy. It was a good thing we had CBs so I could
warn him this maniac was in his path.
The second thing: As I went through the gate, those same folks had
left it open. I was up there a ways back when rangers were rounding
up a few cattle that walked through the gate into the recreation area.
After we closed the gate and put the chain on the wire, we began
reconnecting and airing up. Then comes a truck, which proceeds to
push the gate open with his grill! Of course he starts to leave
without closing the gate and I yell at him to close the gate. He
flips me off...
There, I've vented.
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron" <abarvitz@c...> wrote:
> A couple of guys from my truck club and I went out to the coves
this
> morning. I cant believe how much trash was left there, it was
> absolutely disgusting. I cant believe how much trash there was, we
> picked some up but the three of us couldnt do much. Otherwise it
was
> a great run and everyone had a great time. The ford in the group
> overheated and we had to stop for a while. The ruts in most of the
> hills were really deep and made for some wicked climbs and
descents.
> Hope everyone had a great weekend
>
> Aaron
89012 From: Chris <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:26pm
Subject: Grand Cherokee Information Needed ASAP
Ok don't get your hopes up I am not giving up my TJ, however my dad
is considering buying a new Jeep Grand Cherokee. His biggest concern
is the quadra track system of having the full time type 4 wheel
drive. He was not a big fan of it years ago in the large cherokees
and is worried about the wear and tear. Most likely he will give it
a short lift, but will be using it for any hard wheeling, the hardest
he would do is the Lake Pleasant to CK type wheeling.
Any mods to move away from the quadra track he would not entertain
until the warranty is up.
Any information good or bad would be greatly appreciated as he is
ready to buy.
Chris
---------------------------------------------------------------------
89013 From: Chris Kilcullen <whoozey1953@y...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:45pm
Subject: Re: The coves were disgusting
I need to RANT!!!
90% of the wrecks (one recently on the Saguaro Lake from Beeline) without seatbelts on with people scattered all over the highway are from these criminal invaders of our country. They are not "undocumented immigrants" like the media portray them, they are here illegally, sapping our fiscal and natural resources. They don't care at all, because it is not their country. I am not "profiling" (another media sugarcoating phrase), but read the papers. The majority of hit and run crashes are from these people, because they have no license, no registration, no insurance, etc. This wastes our police resources, our courts time, and we end up paying for the 3 hots and a cot in prison. Phoenix is the part of the country that has the most auto theft...who do you think is doing this, and where you do you think these vehicles are going to? How many people in Nogales can afford Grand Cherokees, Yukons, Tahoes? Judging from the housing there, I think not many, but there are a disproportionate amount
of them there. Look at your insurance rates here compared to the rest of the country. Just my opinion, but we need to stop this ASAP or change our name to Arizonixco.
chaton602phx@a... wrote:
I think that the forest service, or whoever is making the money from permits
and parking fees, should have a booth at the entrance (a manned booth) of
butcher Jones beach and charge for parking and check for permits for those who
want to picnic or wheel. as was said, none of those illegals will purchase a
permit, and many people just wont take the time to purchase one because they have
to get off their lazy asses in order to do so. their should be a law; you must
be a citizen of the united states in order to purchase a permit. you have to
admit, when you first enter the parking lot, all you see is immigrants, at
least 98%. when wheelin through the coves one time at night, I noticed a bunch of
teenagers drinking and throwing their beer cans into the fire. there are a
lot of teenagers out there on the weekends and at night just getting their party
on and don't care about picking up the trash they leave. lets build a great
wall of Arizona with a magnetic card reader. then we could use those useless
magnetic strips on the back of our licenses to open the gates to enter and exit.
great idea, lets get started!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
89014 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:51pm
Subject: RE: Grand Cherokee Information Needed ASAP
Hi Chris,
I spent a week in Moab this past spring with a very good friend who had
sold his TJ and brought down a ZJ to wheel in. It had open diffs (not
unusual) and 33" tires. It was the first time I had ever done any
serious wheelin' with a ZJ setup like that and that damn full time 4
wheel drive was about as useless as it could be. I've never stacked so
many rocks to get a vehicle over a trail as I did that one. IMHO, an
absolutely worthless setup for wheelin'.....and I am sure it does great
on snowy roads and all that kind of stuff. I just wasn't impressed with
it....give me part time 4x4!
I hope you Dad can figure out an alternative for the full time 4x4 if he
decides he wants better performance.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris [mailto:my1stjeep@e...]
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 3:27 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Grand Cherokee Information Needed ASAP
Ok don't get your hopes up I am not giving up my TJ, however my dad
is considering buying a new Jeep Grand Cherokee. His biggest concern
is the quadra track system of having the full time type 4 wheel
drive. He was not a big fan of it years ago in the large cherokees
and is worried about the wear and tear. Most likely he will give it
a short lift, but will be using it for any hard wheeling, the hardest
he would do is the Lake Pleasant to CK type wheeling.
Any mods to move away from the quadra track he would not entertain
until the warranty is up.
Any information good or bad would be greatly appreciated as he is
ready to buy.
Chris
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
89015 From: Ramon E. Rubio <rrubio32@c...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:03pm
Subject: Re: Grand Cherokee Information Needed ASAP
Why can't you dad get one with Select-trac?That set-up with a locker in the
rear is a great one.Im not saying that you will conquer all the trails but
it can handle it's own in the moderate to difficult ones.If he is not
worried about body damage he can do alot more of the difficult ones.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
To: "'Chris'" <my1stjeep@e...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Grand Cherokee Information Needed ASAP
> Hi Chris,
>
> I spent a week in Moab this past spring with a very good friend who had
> sold his TJ and brought down a ZJ to wheel in. It had open diffs (not
> unusual) and 33" tires. It was the first time I had ever done any
> serious wheelin' with a ZJ setup like that and that damn full time 4
> wheel drive was about as useless as it could be. I've never stacked so
> many rocks to get a vehicle over a trail as I did that one. IMHO, an
> absolutely worthless setup for wheelin'.....and I am sure it does great
> on snowy roads and all that kind of stuff. I just wasn't impressed with
> it....give me part time 4x4!
>
> I hope you Dad can figure out an alternative for the full time 4x4 if he
> decides he wants better performance.
>
> Stu
>
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris [mailto:my1stjeep@e...]
> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 3:27 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Grand Cherokee Information Needed ASAP
>
> Ok don't get your hopes up I am not giving up my TJ, however my dad
> is considering buying a new Jeep Grand Cherokee. His biggest concern
> is the quadra track system of having the full time type 4 wheel
> drive. He was not a big fan of it years ago in the large cherokees
> and is worried about the wear and tear. Most likely he will give it
> a short lift, but will be using it for any hard wheeling, the hardest
> he would do is the Lake Pleasant to CK type wheeling.
>
> Any mods to move away from the quadra track he would not entertain
> until the warranty is up.
>
> Any information good or bad would be greatly appreciated as he is
> ready to buy.
>
> Chris
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
89016 From: trmn8rjn98 <trmn8rjn98@a...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:20pm
Subject: Re: Grand Cherokee Information Needed ASAP
If the one he is looking at is Quadradrive (99&newer I believe)WJ it
is a pretty good system. I wheeled with a guy that had that & ran
lower woodpecker regualary. If it is a (93-95)ZJ fulltime it will be
pretty crappy. I never had anyproblems with mine but if you lose all
traction at 1 wheel it will not move because there is no positive 4x4
in the transfercase. If it is a 96-98 ZJ the case changed to where in
low it is locked true 4x4.93-98 are ZJs 99 & newer are WJs
John
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <my1stjeep@e...> wrote:
> Ok don't get your hopes up I am not giving up my TJ, however my dad
> is considering buying a new Jeep Grand Cherokee. His biggest
concern
> is the quadra track system of having the full time type 4 wheel
> drive. He was not a big fan of it years ago in the large cherokees
> and is worried about the wear and tear. Most likely he will give
it
> a short lift, but will be using it for any hard wheeling, the
hardest
> he would do is the Lake Pleasant to CK type wheeling.
>
> Any mods to move away from the quadra track he would not entertain
> until the warranty is up.
>
> Any information good or bad would be greatly appreciated as he is
> ready to buy.
>
> Chris
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
-
89017 From: Scott Maiden <bermboy@h...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:36pm
Subject: Re: Lift test...awesome!
Sounds cool, but please tell me you have gotten rid of the d35...;p
Scott Maiden
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "sharxjeep" <sharxjeep@c...> wrote:
> Well I took the new Rock Krawler kit for its first test run last
> night. A few of the Rock Rats and I went to Raw Deal to do a little
> testing on my new lift as well as Rick Normans. Raw Deal has alot
of
> flex spots to test on and I must say Im more than impressed with
how
> stable my Jeep felt and how far she is flexing, after putting the
> front coils back in a few times I realized it was working better
than
> I had expected! A few adjustments on my limiting straps and all
will
> be good. Keep in mind Im only running the front half of the Super 7
> from Rock Krawler until we finish the rest of the mods to the rear.
> As well as it flexed with just the front complete I cant wait to
see
> when the back is done and I have 7" more wheel base! After some
good
> testing I turned my son loose on the driving chores and he
completed
> the remaining 100 yards of the trail...thank goodness for the hand
> throttle...I cant wait till he can reach the peddles and can do all
> of the driving! Hes does really good for only being 10.
>
> thanks guys for the run
> Sharky
89018 From: Scott K <osmtj@y...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:23pm
Subject: Re: The coves were disgusting
Unless you are a native american you are no more a native than they
are. This country was founded on immigration (whether its legal or
illegal). I respect your right to your opinion though it reeks of
prejudice. Besides, who trims most of the trees, shrubs, and grass
in this city? They are a part of our culture, like it or leave it.
You can always pack up your stuff and move to Montana (like I'm
doing). LOL
Scott K
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Chris Kilcullen <whoozey1953@y...>
wrote:
> I need to RANT!!!
> 90% of the wrecks (one recently on the Saguaro Lake from Beeline)
without seatbelts on with people scattered all over the highway are
from these criminal invaders of our country. They are
not "undocumented immigrants" like the media portray them, they are
here illegally, sapping our fiscal and natural resources. They don't
care at all, because it is not their country. I am not "profiling"
(another media sugarcoating phrase), but read the papers. The
majority of hit and run crashes are from these people, because they
have no license, no registration, no insurance, etc. This wastes our
police resources, our courts time, and we end up paying for the 3
hots and a cot in prison. Phoenix is the part of the country that
has the most auto theft...who do you think is doing this, and where
you do you think these vehicles are going to? How many people in
Nogales can afford Grand Cherokees, Yukons, Tahoes? Judging from the
housing there, I think not many, but there are a disproportionate
amount
> of them there. Look at your insurance rates here compared to the
rest of the country. Just my opinion, but we need to stop this ASAP
or change our name to Arizonixco.
>
> chaton602phx@a... wrote:
> I think that the forest service, or whoever is making the money
from permits
> and parking fees, should have a booth at the entrance (a manned
booth) of
> butcher Jones beach and charge for parking and check for permits
for those who
> want to picnic or wheel. as was said, none of those illegals will
purchase a
> permit, and many people just wont take the time to purchase one
because they have
> to get off their lazy asses in order to do so. their should be a
law; you must
> be a citizen of the united states in order to purchase a permit.
you have to
> admit, when you first enter the parking lot, all you see is
immigrants, at
> least 98%. when wheelin through the coves one time at night, I
noticed a bunch of
> teenagers drinking and throwing their beer cans into the fire.
there are a
> lot of teenagers out there on the weekends and at night just
getting their party
> on and don't care about picking up the trash they leave. lets
build a great
> wall of Arizona with a magnetic card reader. then we could use
those useless
> magnetic strips on the back of our licenses to open the gates to
enter and exit.
> great idea, lets get started!
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
89019 From: K Suljic <arc_inc2001@y...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:37pm
Subject: XJ TRANSFER CASES
Hey guys,
which transfer case is a better unit for my keeper XJ the NP231 or the 242 I have both & want to install a SYE KIT.
THANX
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
89020 From: Joe West <arizonajeep@c...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 6:03pm
Subject: RE: The coves were disgusting
Anyone who feels that they need to complain about illegal immigrants...
think about this:
If the roles were reversed, and you were a Mexican national living in
Mexico... would you cross the border to the United States for the
opportunity of a better life?
I would... and I'd bring my family over... and I'd tell all my friends
to come over...
I've seen vastly more white trailer trash asswipes throwing crap out at
the coves than I've seen immigrants doing it. This isn't just an
immigrant problem, this is an un-educated HUMAN problem.
Joe West
>>I need to RANT!!!
<snip>
89021 From: Leonard K. Pennock <leonardpennock@c...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 6:04pm
Subject: Re: Grand Cherokee Information Needed ASAP
The problem is not will full time 4wd in fact they work great on dirt
roads, on snow and in the rain. The problem is the ZJ prior to 96 or 97
did not have a full lockup low range. Without the full lockup in low
range you can overcome the abily of the coupler to supply torque. This
is no different than when you have a limited slip diff and wind up with
one wheel spinning. The ZJ 249 in a 97 wheels as well as any other T-case.
Now as far as the WJ. According to
<http://www.wjjeeps.com/dimensions.htm> the NV247 Quadra-trac II has a
low range lock. If this is true it should do just fine offroad since
you really only need the locked up case when in 4 low.
As far as the quadra Drive Axles. I'm not sure I would bother with
them. In order for them to work you need some spinning so the fluid
builds presure. Since I don't like things spining as it is a good way
to break things, I don't care much for them. Personally I think I would
pass on those and put a truetrac in front with a Detroit, No Spin,
Auburn or Truetrac in the rear.
az_vjc@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> Message: 25
> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 15:51:41 -0700
> From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
> Subject: RE: Grand Cherokee Information Needed ASAP
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> I spent a week in Moab this past spring with a very good friend who had
> sold his TJ and brought down a ZJ to wheel in. It had open diffs (not
> unusual) and 33" tires. It was the first time I had ever done any
> serious wheelin' with a ZJ setup like that and that damn full time 4
> wheel drive was about as useless as it could be. I've never stacked so
> many rocks to get a vehicle over a trail as I did that one. IMHO, an
> absolutely worthless setup for wheelin'.....and I am sure it does great
> on snowy roads and all that kind of stuff. I just wasn't impressed with
> it....give me part time 4x4!
>
> I hope you Dad can figure out an alternative for the full time 4x4 if he
> decides he wants better performance.
>
> Stu
>
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris [mailto:my1stjeep@e...]
> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 3:27 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Grand Cherokee Information Needed ASAP
>
> Ok don't get your hopes up I am not giving up my TJ, however my dad
> is considering buying a new Jeep Grand Cherokee. His biggest concern
> is the quadra track system of having the full time type 4 wheel
> drive. He was not a big fan of it years ago in the large cherokees
> and is worried about the wear and tear. Most likely he will give it
> a short lift, but will be using it for any hard wheeling, the hardest
> he would do is the Lake Pleasant to CK type wheeling.
>
> Any mods to move away from the quadra track he would not entertain
> until the warranty is up.
>
> Any information good or bad would be greatly appreciated as he is
> ready to buy.
>
> Chris
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
--
Leonard K. Pennock
Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure,
find that they very rarely lose or fail.
89022 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 6:19pm
Subject: RE: The coves were disgusting
Chris,
I started a long reply but thoght better of my time. Please keep your
rant off the list. This forum is not the place for such unfounded
personal observations and/or opinions.
If you'll listen to my opinion it sounds more like one of these ditch
diggin', orange pickin', onion pullin', hotel maids with below mininum
wages took your job.... Or stole your Yukon, Cherokee or Tahoe. ;/
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Kilcullen [mailto:whoozey1953@y...]
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 3:46 PM
To: chaton602phx@a...; Flexnxj1@a...; abarvitz@c...;
az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] The coves were disgusting
I need to RANT!!!
90% of the wrecks (one recently on the Saguaro Lake from Beeline)
without seatbelts on with people scattered all over the highway are from
these criminal invaders of our country. They are not "undocumented
immigrants" like the media portray them, they are here illegally,
sapping our fiscal and natural resources. They don't care at all,
because it is not their country. I am not "profiling" (another media
sugarcoating phrase), but read the papers. The majority of hit and run
crashes are from these people, because they have no license, no
registration, no insurance, etc. This wastes our police resources, our
courts time, and we end up paying for the 3 hots and a cot in prison.
Phoenix is the part of the country that has the most auto theft...who do
you think is doing this, and where you do you think these vehicles are
going to? How many people in Nogales can afford Grand Cherokees, Yukons,
Tahoes? Judging from the housing there, I think not many, but there are
a disproportionate amount of them there. Look at your insurance rates
here compared to the rest of the country. Just my opinion, but we need
to stop this ASAP or change our name to Arizonixco.
chaton602phx@a... wrote:
I think that the forest service, or whoever is making the money from
permits
and parking fees, should have a booth at the entrance (a manned booth)
of
butcher Jones beach and charge for parking and check for permits for
those who
want to picnic or wheel. as was said, none of those illegals will
purchase a
permit, and many people just wont take the time to purchase one because
they have
to get off their lazy asses in order to do so. their should be a law;
you must
be a citizen of the united states in order to purchase a permit. you
have to
admit, when you first enter the parking lot, all you see is immigrants,
at
least 98%. when wheelin through the coves one time at night, I noticed a
bunch of
teenagers drinking and throwing their beer cans into the fire. there are
a
lot of teenagers out there on the weekends and at night just getting
their party
on and don't care about picking up the trash they leave. lets build a
great
wall of Arizona with a magnetic card reader. then we could use those
useless
magnetic strips on the back of our licenses to open the gates to enter
and exit.
great idea, lets get started!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
89023 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 6:20pm
Subject: Re: Re: The coves were disgusting
Well said, Scott.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott K" <osmtj@y...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 5:23 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: The coves were disgusting
> Unless you are a native american you are no more a native than they
> are. This country was founded on immigration (whether its legal or
> illegal). I respect your right to your opinion though it reeks of
> prejudice. Besides, who trims most of the trees, shrubs, and grass
> in this city? They are a part of our culture, like it or leave it.
>
> You can always pack up your stuff and move to Montana (like I'm
> doing). LOL
>
> Scott K
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Chris Kilcullen <whoozey1953@y...>
> wrote:
> > I need to RANT!!!
> > 90% of the wrecks (one recently on the Saguaro Lake from Beeline)
> without seatbelts on with people scattered all over the highway are
> from these criminal invaders of our country. They are
> not "undocumented immigrants" like the media portray them, they are
> here illegally, sapping our fiscal and natural resources. They don't
> care at all, because it is not their country. I am not "profiling"
> (another media sugarcoating phrase), but read the papers. The
> majority of hit and run crashes are from these people, because they
> have no license, no registration, no insurance, etc. This wastes our
> police resources, our courts time, and we end up paying for the 3
> hots and a cot in prison. Phoenix is the part of the country that
> has the most auto theft...who do you think is doing this, and where
> you do you think these vehicles are going to? How many people in
> Nogales can afford Grand Cherokees, Yukons, Tahoes? Judging from the
> housing there, I think not many, but there are a disproportionate
> amount
> > of them there. Look at your insurance rates here compared to the
> rest of the country. Just my opinion, but we need to stop this ASAP
> or change our name to Arizonixco.
> >
> > chaton602phx@a... wrote:
> > I think that the forest service, or whoever is making the money
> from permits
> > and parking fees, should have a booth at the entrance (a manned
> booth) of
> > butcher Jones beach and charge for parking and check for permits
> for those who
> > want to picnic or wheel. as was said, none of those illegals will
> purchase a
> > permit, and many people just wont take the time to purchase one
> because they have
> > to get off their lazy asses in order to do so. their should be a
> law; you must
> > be a citizen of the united states in order to purchase a permit.
> you have to
> > admit, when you first enter the parking lot, all you see is
> immigrants, at
> > least 98%. when wheelin through the coves one time at night, I
> noticed a bunch of
> > teenagers drinking and throwing their beer cans into the fire.
> there are a
> > lot of teenagers out there on the weekends and at night just
> getting their party
> > on and don't care about picking up the trash they leave. lets
> build a great
> > wall of Arizona with a magnetic card reader. then we could use
> those useless
> > magnetic strips on the back of our licenses to open the gates to
> enter and exit.
> > great idea, lets get started!
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
89024 From: Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 6:27pm
Subject: Re: Aloha!
We rented a Jeep when we honeymooned on Kauai some years ago. I got
a free topo from the State building in Lihue and we took the Jeep
wheeling up near the top of the island by way of Waimea canyon
(drive up the canyon and beyond the park/museum at the top). Lots of
neat trails which weren't too tough for the stock rental Jeep and
which took us away from the general tourist areas. There was another
trail somewhere on the east side near Kapaa, but I forget where the
trailhead was.
Matt
K7MTO
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Mike H." <hiett710@y...> wrote:
> Just wanted to rub in the fact that I'm checkin' my E-mail and
group
> messages from Kauai (Hawaii). Not a whole lot of Jeepin per se but
> we rented a little TJ and are driving arround with the top down in
> the middle of the summer (84 degrees).
89025 From: k7ant <k7ant@f...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 7:39pm
Subject: Re: The coves were disgusting
I agree with Joe......to an extent. I don't think the Coves mess is
strictly the fault of illegals. I agree it's uneducated asswipes, but
can't agree on it being trailer trash, as I live in one. Also, on the
illegals, lets either open the borders or enforce the laws with U.S.
troops down there. I don't care about the poor Mexican workers
looking for a better live, but do care about the Terrorist using PC
to invade us.
Either enforce the law or change it! And let find a way to get the
asswipes that trash the countryside.
Bill W
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Joe West" <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> Anyone who feels that they need to complain about illegal
immigrants...
> think about this:
>
> If the roles were reversed, and you were a Mexican national living
in
> Mexico... would you cross the border to the United States for the
> opportunity of a better life?
>
> I would... and I'd bring my family over... and I'd tell all my
friends
> to come over...
>
> I've seen vastly more white trailer trash asswipes throwing crap
out at
> the coves than I've seen immigrants doing it. This isn't just an
> immigrant problem, this is an un-educated HUMAN problem.
>
> Joe West
>
>
>
> >>I need to RANT!!!
>
> <snip>
89026 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 8:03pm
Subject: [TR] Unspecified - Saturday, September 13, 2003 - Reminder
Hello All,Rick Beer is leading an Unspecified trail run on Saturday, September 13, 2003.<br><br>When: September 13th & 14th (week of a full moon)
Where: The Cracks aka Mini Moab <br>
between Holbrook & Heber AZ
Rating: None
Length: All day or weekend
CB Channel: CH-4
<br>
Meet 8am Chevron station 8 am rt 260 & 277 <br>
A few of us will be heading out early Friday the 12th possibly do a night run & camp out all week end <br>
this trail is rated a 3 to 3 1/2 <br>
Leave early drive time is around 2-3 hrs from Phoenix <br>
Bill Witt will be our trip leader
http://www.azvjc.org/default.asp?A=1&ID=946
Click the link above To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
89002 From: <flexnxj1@a...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 6:20am
Subject: Re: The coves were disgusting
Yea, I know I was just thinking sometime in the future. But, It's never too
hot for them to destroy the land that we try to take care of and not lose.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
89003 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 10:48am
Subject: RE: Re: A big thanks!!!
Thanks Stu. They worked on it all night and were able to make it up to the
run.
You Da Man!
Frank
http://groups.msn.com/BadAzXJ
http://groups.msn.com/badazxj/arizonaundertakers.msnw
>From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
>To: "'jetowle2000'" <James.Towle@a...>, az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: A big thanks!!!
>Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 08:47:22 -0700
>
>James, it was about 9:00 PM when Paul picked up the mount. He was at
>Camp Verde when he realized he needed a mount....nothing was going to be
>open by the time he got to Phoenix.
>
>Stu Olson
>www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: jetowle2000 [mailto:James.Towle@a...]
>Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 8:35 AM
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Re: A big thanks!!!
>
>
>I was wondering, didn't 4 Wheelers Supply have one? I would have
>lent you mine, in favor of me getting a new one, but mine is a pita
>to replace.
>
>Glad to hear everything worked out.
>
>--James
>
>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Tenniswood" <rockjeep76@y...>
>wrote:
> >
> >
> > Just wanted to thank Stu for the tranny mount that got my
> > cousin out on the trail today....THANKS STU...you saved the day..
> >
> > Paul CJ76
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________ _______________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
89004 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 11:01am
Subject: RE: 2001tj transmission pan
Mike,
I've pulled skids several times and have supported the engine/tranny at
the bell housing, or just behind it.
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Buckner [mailto:mrbuckner@a...]
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 9:12 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] 2001tj transmission pan
Good morning,
I would like to get my high capacity transmission pan installed
today. After reading the FSM, I may need to loosen up the skid
plate to install the new pan. Can anyone recommend blocking points
while the installation is being done?
Best regards,
Mike
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
89005 From: Kevin Gallagher <GIThunder81@c...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 11:42am
Subject: RE: The coves were disgusting
Maybe we can write our congressman and pass a law that states if 2 or
more person witness someone litering our trails they are authorized to
shoot on sight? That would be nice, then maybe I could convince my boss
to go trail riding with me and tell him litering is ok :).... Wait I am
the Boss.
-----Original Message-----
From: flexnxj1@a... [mailto:flexnxj1@a...]
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 10:20 AM
To: solson8@q...; abarvitz@c...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] The coves were disgusting
Yea, I know I was just thinking sometime in the future. But, It's never
too
hot for them to destroy the land that we try to take care of and not
lose.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
89006 From: Mike H. <hiett710@y...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 0:53pm
Subject: Aloha!
Just wanted to rub in the fact that I'm checkin' my E-mail and group
messages from Kauai (Hawaii). Not a whole lot of Jeepin per se but
we rented a little TJ and are driving arround with the top down in
the middle of the summer (84 degrees).
Aloha,
Mike H.
P.S. I am truly now a member of the VJC Light Riders!
Maybe I should start the HI VJC while I'm out here :)
89007 From: <chaton602phx@a...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 9:23am
Subject: Re: The coves were disgusting
you cant be that bad of a guy to want to shoot yourself. I'm here for
you---------I am your friend. LOL!
Anthony
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
89008 From: yzguyone25 <YZGUYONE25@m...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:00pm
Subject: Re: The coves were disgusting
Just my brief .02
I have been to the coves once, but I know there are tons of people
out there to enjoy themselves. Unfortunately not many can keep their
messes clean. This makes the ORV community look bad even though it
may not be directly us.
Why don't we schedule a cleanup sometime soon? Sure it may be hot,
but that shouldn't stop us. It is our land and our fun memories that
are getting pushed closer and closer to becoming zero. The longer we
wait the worse it looks on us. I know it's unbelievably hot out
there, but we could do this in the early AM or evening. I think we
just need to bring along lots of water and shade.
I guess I just don't think the heat should stop us from possibly
losing our land. If the place looks as bad as everyone states then
lets get something together. Just think about all the memories and
good times out there. I know I will gladly be there if we get
something going!
Respectfully,
Justin Olson
89009 From: <chaton602phx@a...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 10:02am
Subject: Re: The coves were disgusting
I think that the forest service, or whoever is making the money from permits
and parking fees, should have a booth at the entrance (a manned booth) of
butcher Jones beach and charge for parking and check for permits for those who
want to picnic or wheel. as was said, none of those illegals will purchase a
permit, and many people just wont take the time to purchase one because they have
to get off their lazy asses in order to do so. their should be a law; you must
be a citizen of the united states in order to purchase a permit. you have to
admit, when you first enter the parking lot, all you see is immigrants, at
least 98%. when wheelin through the coves one time at night, I noticed a bunch of
teenagers drinking and throwing their beer cans into the fire. there are a
lot of teenagers out there on the weekends and at night just getting their party
on and don't care about picking up the trash they leave. lets build a great
wall of Arizona with a magnetic card reader. then we could use those useless
magnetic strips on the back of our licenses to open the gates to enter and exit.
great idea, lets get started!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
89010 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:21pm
Subject: RE: Re: The coves were disgusting
Justin,
Another club member scheduled a clean-up once, for August, at another
wheelin' sight. Rather than the 50 or 75 people that we usually get (I
believe we had at least that many at the Coves the last time), we had
about 10 or 12. We busted our butts in that heat....and it was anything
but a "come on out with the family and have a good time with your fellow
club members" event. While we made some small impact on the amount of
trash that was there, it didn't look all that good in the eyes of the
land management folks (in my opinion) when only a dozen people came to
clean up.
Like I said, you can schedule a cleanup if you wish, but I honestly
believe you are doing this club a disfavor by doing so. I've attended
just about every cleanup the club has done and several of them this club
has not hosted. I will help on the next cleanup....but I won't be doing
it if it is 110 degrees.
Just my 2 cents.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: yzguyone25 [mailto:YZGUYONE25@m...]
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 2:01 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: The coves were disgusting
Just my brief .02
I have been to the coves once, but I know there are tons of people
out there to enjoy themselves. Unfortunately not many can keep their
messes clean. This makes the ORV community look bad even though it
may not be directly us.
Why don't we schedule a cleanup sometime soon? Sure it may be hot,
but that shouldn't stop us. It is our land and our fun memories that
are getting pushed closer and closer to becoming zero. The longer we
wait the worse it looks on us. I know it's unbelievably hot out
there, but we could do this in the early AM or evening. I think we
just need to bring along lots of water and shade.
I guess I just don't think the heat should stop us from possibly
losing our land. If the place looks as bad as everyone states then
lets get something together. Just think about all the memories and
good times out there. I know I will gladly be there if we get
something going!
Respectfully,
Justin Olson
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
89011 From: firstkitcarson <kcarson@c...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:09pm
Subject: Re: The coves were disgusting
I've been out there the last two weekends in a row. I was pleased to
see some boaters filling up trash bags before getting back in their
boats. I think it was a youth program.
Trash is a problem there, but if everyone brings a couple of trash
bags with them on EVERY trail, we could not only get a handle on the
problem, but also set an example.
I encountered two other problems while out there yesterday.
On the way out, two trucks almost plowed into me head on. The first
one was on a two way wash driving like a bat out of hell and appeared
to not be paying attention at all. I had to blow my horn to get him
to notice me, then he nearly rolled his truck to avoid me. At least
he took the right side path when the wash split.
His buddy following behind did the exact same thing. I had to blow my
horn to get him to notice me! I was directly in front of these
yahoos! One should not have to use the horn to get there attention.
To make matters worse, the second guy takes the LEFT wash and almost
runs head on into my buddy. It was a good thing we had CBs so I could
warn him this maniac was in his path.
The second thing: As I went through the gate, those same folks had
left it open. I was up there a ways back when rangers were rounding
up a few cattle that walked through the gate into the recreation area.
After we closed the gate and put the chain on the wire, we began
reconnecting and airing up. Then comes a truck, which proceeds to
push the gate open with his grill! Of course he starts to leave
without closing the gate and I yell at him to close the gate. He
flips me off...
There, I've vented.
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron" <abarvitz@c...> wrote:
> A couple of guys from my truck club and I went out to the coves
this
> morning. I cant believe how much trash was left there, it was
> absolutely disgusting. I cant believe how much trash there was, we
> picked some up but the three of us couldnt do much. Otherwise it
was
> a great run and everyone had a great time. The ford in the group
> overheated and we had to stop for a while. The ruts in most of the
> hills were really deep and made for some wicked climbs and
descents.
> Hope everyone had a great weekend
>
> Aaron
89012 From: Chris <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:26pm
Subject: Grand Cherokee Information Needed ASAP
Ok don't get your hopes up I am not giving up my TJ, however my dad
is considering buying a new Jeep Grand Cherokee. His biggest concern
is the quadra track system of having the full time type 4 wheel
drive. He was not a big fan of it years ago in the large cherokees
and is worried about the wear and tear. Most likely he will give it
a short lift, but will be using it for any hard wheeling, the hardest
he would do is the Lake Pleasant to CK type wheeling.
Any mods to move away from the quadra track he would not entertain
until the warranty is up.
Any information good or bad would be greatly appreciated as he is
ready to buy.
Chris
---------------------------------------------------------------------
89013 From: Chris Kilcullen <whoozey1953@y...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:45pm
Subject: Re: The coves were disgusting
I need to RANT!!!
90% of the wrecks (one recently on the Saguaro Lake from Beeline) without seatbelts on with people scattered all over the highway are from these criminal invaders of our country. They are not "undocumented immigrants" like the media portray them, they are here illegally, sapping our fiscal and natural resources. They don't care at all, because it is not their country. I am not "profiling" (another media sugarcoating phrase), but read the papers. The majority of hit and run crashes are from these people, because they have no license, no registration, no insurance, etc. This wastes our police resources, our courts time, and we end up paying for the 3 hots and a cot in prison. Phoenix is the part of the country that has the most auto theft...who do you think is doing this, and where you do you think these vehicles are going to? How many people in Nogales can afford Grand Cherokees, Yukons, Tahoes? Judging from the housing there, I think not many, but there are a disproportionate amount
of them there. Look at your insurance rates here compared to the rest of the country. Just my opinion, but we need to stop this ASAP or change our name to Arizonixco.
chaton602phx@a... wrote:
I think that the forest service, or whoever is making the money from permits
and parking fees, should have a booth at the entrance (a manned booth) of
butcher Jones beach and charge for parking and check for permits for those who
want to picnic or wheel. as was said, none of those illegals will purchase a
permit, and many people just wont take the time to purchase one because they have
to get off their lazy asses in order to do so. their should be a law; you must
be a citizen of the united states in order to purchase a permit. you have to
admit, when you first enter the parking lot, all you see is immigrants, at
least 98%. when wheelin through the coves one time at night, I noticed a bunch of
teenagers drinking and throwing their beer cans into the fire. there are a
lot of teenagers out there on the weekends and at night just getting their party
on and don't care about picking up the trash they leave. lets build a great
wall of Arizona with a magnetic card reader. then we could use those useless
magnetic strips on the back of our licenses to open the gates to enter and exit.
great idea, lets get started!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
89014 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:51pm
Subject: RE: Grand Cherokee Information Needed ASAP
Hi Chris,
I spent a week in Moab this past spring with a very good friend who had
sold his TJ and brought down a ZJ to wheel in. It had open diffs (not
unusual) and 33" tires. It was the first time I had ever done any
serious wheelin' with a ZJ setup like that and that damn full time 4
wheel drive was about as useless as it could be. I've never stacked so
many rocks to get a vehicle over a trail as I did that one. IMHO, an
absolutely worthless setup for wheelin'.....and I am sure it does great
on snowy roads and all that kind of stuff. I just wasn't impressed with
it....give me part time 4x4!
I hope you Dad can figure out an alternative for the full time 4x4 if he
decides he wants better performance.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris [mailto:my1stjeep@e...]
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 3:27 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Grand Cherokee Information Needed ASAP
Ok don't get your hopes up I am not giving up my TJ, however my dad
is considering buying a new Jeep Grand Cherokee. His biggest concern
is the quadra track system of having the full time type 4 wheel
drive. He was not a big fan of it years ago in the large cherokees
and is worried about the wear and tear. Most likely he will give it
a short lift, but will be using it for any hard wheeling, the hardest
he would do is the Lake Pleasant to CK type wheeling.
Any mods to move away from the quadra track he would not entertain
until the warranty is up.
Any information good or bad would be greatly appreciated as he is
ready to buy.
Chris
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
89015 From: Ramon E. Rubio <rrubio32@c...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:03pm
Subject: Re: Grand Cherokee Information Needed ASAP
Why can't you dad get one with Select-trac?That set-up with a locker in the
rear is a great one.Im not saying that you will conquer all the trails but
it can handle it's own in the moderate to difficult ones.If he is not
worried about body damage he can do alot more of the difficult ones.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
To: "'Chris'" <my1stjeep@e...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Grand Cherokee Information Needed ASAP
> Hi Chris,
>
> I spent a week in Moab this past spring with a very good friend who had
> sold his TJ and brought down a ZJ to wheel in. It had open diffs (not
> unusual) and 33" tires. It was the first time I had ever done any
> serious wheelin' with a ZJ setup like that and that damn full time 4
> wheel drive was about as useless as it could be. I've never stacked so
> many rocks to get a vehicle over a trail as I did that one. IMHO, an
> absolutely worthless setup for wheelin'.....and I am sure it does great
> on snowy roads and all that kind of stuff. I just wasn't impressed with
> it....give me part time 4x4!
>
> I hope you Dad can figure out an alternative for the full time 4x4 if he
> decides he wants better performance.
>
> Stu
>
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris [mailto:my1stjeep@e...]
> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 3:27 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Grand Cherokee Information Needed ASAP
>
> Ok don't get your hopes up I am not giving up my TJ, however my dad
> is considering buying a new Jeep Grand Cherokee. His biggest concern
> is the quadra track system of having the full time type 4 wheel
> drive. He was not a big fan of it years ago in the large cherokees
> and is worried about the wear and tear. Most likely he will give it
> a short lift, but will be using it for any hard wheeling, the hardest
> he would do is the Lake Pleasant to CK type wheeling.
>
> Any mods to move away from the quadra track he would not entertain
> until the warranty is up.
>
> Any information good or bad would be greatly appreciated as he is
> ready to buy.
>
> Chris
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
89016 From: trmn8rjn98 <trmn8rjn98@a...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:20pm
Subject: Re: Grand Cherokee Information Needed ASAP
If the one he is looking at is Quadradrive (99&newer I believe)WJ it
is a pretty good system. I wheeled with a guy that had that & ran
lower woodpecker regualary. If it is a (93-95)ZJ fulltime it will be
pretty crappy. I never had anyproblems with mine but if you lose all
traction at 1 wheel it will not move because there is no positive 4x4
in the transfercase. If it is a 96-98 ZJ the case changed to where in
low it is locked true 4x4.93-98 are ZJs 99 & newer are WJs
John
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <my1stjeep@e...> wrote:
> Ok don't get your hopes up I am not giving up my TJ, however my dad
> is considering buying a new Jeep Grand Cherokee. His biggest
concern
> is the quadra track system of having the full time type 4 wheel
> drive. He was not a big fan of it years ago in the large cherokees
> and is worried about the wear and tear. Most likely he will give
it
> a short lift, but will be using it for any hard wheeling, the
hardest
> he would do is the Lake Pleasant to CK type wheeling.
>
> Any mods to move away from the quadra track he would not entertain
> until the warranty is up.
>
> Any information good or bad would be greatly appreciated as he is
> ready to buy.
>
> Chris
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
-
89017 From: Scott Maiden <bermboy@h...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:36pm
Subject: Re: Lift test...awesome!
Sounds cool, but please tell me you have gotten rid of the d35...;p
Scott Maiden
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "sharxjeep" <sharxjeep@c...> wrote:
> Well I took the new Rock Krawler kit for its first test run last
> night. A few of the Rock Rats and I went to Raw Deal to do a little
> testing on my new lift as well as Rick Normans. Raw Deal has alot
of
> flex spots to test on and I must say Im more than impressed with
how
> stable my Jeep felt and how far she is flexing, after putting the
> front coils back in a few times I realized it was working better
than
> I had expected! A few adjustments on my limiting straps and all
will
> be good. Keep in mind Im only running the front half of the Super 7
> from Rock Krawler until we finish the rest of the mods to the rear.
> As well as it flexed with just the front complete I cant wait to
see
> when the back is done and I have 7" more wheel base! After some
good
> testing I turned my son loose on the driving chores and he
completed
> the remaining 100 yards of the trail...thank goodness for the hand
> throttle...I cant wait till he can reach the peddles and can do all
> of the driving! Hes does really good for only being 10.
>
> thanks guys for the run
> Sharky
89018 From: Scott K <osmtj@y...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:23pm
Subject: Re: The coves were disgusting
Unless you are a native american you are no more a native than they
are. This country was founded on immigration (whether its legal or
illegal). I respect your right to your opinion though it reeks of
prejudice. Besides, who trims most of the trees, shrubs, and grass
in this city? They are a part of our culture, like it or leave it.
You can always pack up your stuff and move to Montana (like I'm
doing). LOL
Scott K
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Chris Kilcullen <whoozey1953@y...>
wrote:
> I need to RANT!!!
> 90% of the wrecks (one recently on the Saguaro Lake from Beeline)
without seatbelts on with people scattered all over the highway are
from these criminal invaders of our country. They are
not "undocumented immigrants" like the media portray them, they are
here illegally, sapping our fiscal and natural resources. They don't
care at all, because it is not their country. I am not "profiling"
(another media sugarcoating phrase), but read the papers. The
majority of hit and run crashes are from these people, because they
have no license, no registration, no insurance, etc. This wastes our
police resources, our courts time, and we end up paying for the 3
hots and a cot in prison. Phoenix is the part of the country that
has the most auto theft...who do you think is doing this, and where
you do you think these vehicles are going to? How many people in
Nogales can afford Grand Cherokees, Yukons, Tahoes? Judging from the
housing there, I think not many, but there are a disproportionate
amount
> of them there. Look at your insurance rates here compared to the
rest of the country. Just my opinion, but we need to stop this ASAP
or change our name to Arizonixco.
>
> chaton602phx@a... wrote:
> I think that the forest service, or whoever is making the money
from permits
> and parking fees, should have a booth at the entrance (a manned
booth) of
> butcher Jones beach and charge for parking and check for permits
for those who
> want to picnic or wheel. as was said, none of those illegals will
purchase a
> permit, and many people just wont take the time to purchase one
because they have
> to get off their lazy asses in order to do so. their should be a
law; you must
> be a citizen of the united states in order to purchase a permit.
you have to
> admit, when you first enter the parking lot, all you see is
immigrants, at
> least 98%. when wheelin through the coves one time at night, I
noticed a bunch of
> teenagers drinking and throwing their beer cans into the fire.
there are a
> lot of teenagers out there on the weekends and at night just
getting their party
> on and don't care about picking up the trash they leave. lets
build a great
> wall of Arizona with a magnetic card reader. then we could use
those useless
> magnetic strips on the back of our licenses to open the gates to
enter and exit.
> great idea, lets get started!
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
89019 From: K Suljic <arc_inc2001@y...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:37pm
Subject: XJ TRANSFER CASES
Hey guys,
which transfer case is a better unit for my keeper XJ the NP231 or the 242 I have both & want to install a SYE KIT.
THANX
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
89020 From: Joe West <arizonajeep@c...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 6:03pm
Subject: RE: The coves were disgusting
Anyone who feels that they need to complain about illegal immigrants...
think about this:
If the roles were reversed, and you were a Mexican national living in
Mexico... would you cross the border to the United States for the
opportunity of a better life?
I would... and I'd bring my family over... and I'd tell all my friends
to come over...
I've seen vastly more white trailer trash asswipes throwing crap out at
the coves than I've seen immigrants doing it. This isn't just an
immigrant problem, this is an un-educated HUMAN problem.
Joe West
>>I need to RANT!!!
<snip>
89021 From: Leonard K. Pennock <leonardpennock@c...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 6:04pm
Subject: Re: Grand Cherokee Information Needed ASAP
The problem is not will full time 4wd in fact they work great on dirt
roads, on snow and in the rain. The problem is the ZJ prior to 96 or 97
did not have a full lockup low range. Without the full lockup in low
range you can overcome the abily of the coupler to supply torque. This
is no different than when you have a limited slip diff and wind up with
one wheel spinning. The ZJ 249 in a 97 wheels as well as any other T-case.
Now as far as the WJ. According to
<http://www.wjjeeps.com/dimensions.htm> the NV247 Quadra-trac II has a
low range lock. If this is true it should do just fine offroad since
you really only need the locked up case when in 4 low.
As far as the quadra Drive Axles. I'm not sure I would bother with
them. In order for them to work you need some spinning so the fluid
builds presure. Since I don't like things spining as it is a good way
to break things, I don't care much for them. Personally I think I would
pass on those and put a truetrac in front with a Detroit, No Spin,
Auburn or Truetrac in the rear.
az_vjc@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> Message: 25
> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 15:51:41 -0700
> From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
> Subject: RE: Grand Cherokee Information Needed ASAP
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> I spent a week in Moab this past spring with a very good friend who had
> sold his TJ and brought down a ZJ to wheel in. It had open diffs (not
> unusual) and 33" tires. It was the first time I had ever done any
> serious wheelin' with a ZJ setup like that and that damn full time 4
> wheel drive was about as useless as it could be. I've never stacked so
> many rocks to get a vehicle over a trail as I did that one. IMHO, an
> absolutely worthless setup for wheelin'.....and I am sure it does great
> on snowy roads and all that kind of stuff. I just wasn't impressed with
> it....give me part time 4x4!
>
> I hope you Dad can figure out an alternative for the full time 4x4 if he
> decides he wants better performance.
>
> Stu
>
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris [mailto:my1stjeep@e...]
> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 3:27 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Grand Cherokee Information Needed ASAP
>
> Ok don't get your hopes up I am not giving up my TJ, however my dad
> is considering buying a new Jeep Grand Cherokee. His biggest concern
> is the quadra track system of having the full time type 4 wheel
> drive. He was not a big fan of it years ago in the large cherokees
> and is worried about the wear and tear. Most likely he will give it
> a short lift, but will be using it for any hard wheeling, the hardest
> he would do is the Lake Pleasant to CK type wheeling.
>
> Any mods to move away from the quadra track he would not entertain
> until the warranty is up.
>
> Any information good or bad would be greatly appreciated as he is
> ready to buy.
>
> Chris
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
--
Leonard K. Pennock
Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure,
find that they very rarely lose or fail.
89022 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 6:19pm
Subject: RE: The coves were disgusting
Chris,
I started a long reply but thoght better of my time. Please keep your
rant off the list. This forum is not the place for such unfounded
personal observations and/or opinions.
If you'll listen to my opinion it sounds more like one of these ditch
diggin', orange pickin', onion pullin', hotel maids with below mininum
wages took your job.... Or stole your Yukon, Cherokee or Tahoe. ;/
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Kilcullen [mailto:whoozey1953@y...]
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 3:46 PM
To: chaton602phx@a...; Flexnxj1@a...; abarvitz@c...;
az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] The coves were disgusting
I need to RANT!!!
90% of the wrecks (one recently on the Saguaro Lake from Beeline)
without seatbelts on with people scattered all over the highway are from
these criminal invaders of our country. They are not "undocumented
immigrants" like the media portray them, they are here illegally,
sapping our fiscal and natural resources. They don't care at all,
because it is not their country. I am not "profiling" (another media
sugarcoating phrase), but read the papers. The majority of hit and run
crashes are from these people, because they have no license, no
registration, no insurance, etc. This wastes our police resources, our
courts time, and we end up paying for the 3 hots and a cot in prison.
Phoenix is the part of the country that has the most auto theft...who do
you think is doing this, and where you do you think these vehicles are
going to? How many people in Nogales can afford Grand Cherokees, Yukons,
Tahoes? Judging from the housing there, I think not many, but there are
a disproportionate amount of them there. Look at your insurance rates
here compared to the rest of the country. Just my opinion, but we need
to stop this ASAP or change our name to Arizonixco.
chaton602phx@a... wrote:
I think that the forest service, or whoever is making the money from
permits
and parking fees, should have a booth at the entrance (a manned booth)
of
butcher Jones beach and charge for parking and check for permits for
those who
want to picnic or wheel. as was said, none of those illegals will
purchase a
permit, and many people just wont take the time to purchase one because
they have
to get off their lazy asses in order to do so. their should be a law;
you must
be a citizen of the united states in order to purchase a permit. you
have to
admit, when you first enter the parking lot, all you see is immigrants,
at
least 98%. when wheelin through the coves one time at night, I noticed a
bunch of
teenagers drinking and throwing their beer cans into the fire. there are
a
lot of teenagers out there on the weekends and at night just getting
their party
on and don't care about picking up the trash they leave. lets build a
great
wall of Arizona with a magnetic card reader. then we could use those
useless
magnetic strips on the back of our licenses to open the gates to enter
and exit.
great idea, lets get started!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
89023 From: DougB <azjeep@c...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 6:20pm
Subject: Re: Re: The coves were disgusting
Well said, Scott.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott K" <osmtj@y...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 5:23 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: The coves were disgusting
> Unless you are a native american you are no more a native than they
> are. This country was founded on immigration (whether its legal or
> illegal). I respect your right to your opinion though it reeks of
> prejudice. Besides, who trims most of the trees, shrubs, and grass
> in this city? They are a part of our culture, like it or leave it.
>
> You can always pack up your stuff and move to Montana (like I'm
> doing). LOL
>
> Scott K
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Chris Kilcullen <whoozey1953@y...>
> wrote:
> > I need to RANT!!!
> > 90% of the wrecks (one recently on the Saguaro Lake from Beeline)
> without seatbelts on with people scattered all over the highway are
> from these criminal invaders of our country. They are
> not "undocumented immigrants" like the media portray them, they are
> here illegally, sapping our fiscal and natural resources. They don't
> care at all, because it is not their country. I am not "profiling"
> (another media sugarcoating phrase), but read the papers. The
> majority of hit and run crashes are from these people, because they
> have no license, no registration, no insurance, etc. This wastes our
> police resources, our courts time, and we end up paying for the 3
> hots and a cot in prison. Phoenix is the part of the country that
> has the most auto theft...who do you think is doing this, and where
> you do you think these vehicles are going to? How many people in
> Nogales can afford Grand Cherokees, Yukons, Tahoes? Judging from the
> housing there, I think not many, but there are a disproportionate
> amount
> > of them there. Look at your insurance rates here compared to the
> rest of the country. Just my opinion, but we need to stop this ASAP
> or change our name to Arizonixco.
> >
> > chaton602phx@a... wrote:
> > I think that the forest service, or whoever is making the money
> from permits
> > and parking fees, should have a booth at the entrance (a manned
> booth) of
> > butcher Jones beach and charge for parking and check for permits
> for those who
> > want to picnic or wheel. as was said, none of those illegals will
> purchase a
> > permit, and many people just wont take the time to purchase one
> because they have
> > to get off their lazy asses in order to do so. their should be a
> law; you must
> > be a citizen of the united states in order to purchase a permit.
> you have to
> > admit, when you first enter the parking lot, all you see is
> immigrants, at
> > least 98%. when wheelin through the coves one time at night, I
> noticed a bunch of
> > teenagers drinking and throwing their beer cans into the fire.
> there are a
> > lot of teenagers out there on the weekends and at night just
> getting their party
> > on and don't care about picking up the trash they leave. lets
> build a great
> > wall of Arizona with a magnetic card reader. then we could use
> those useless
> > magnetic strips on the back of our licenses to open the gates to
> enter and exit.
> > great idea, lets get started!
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
89024 From: Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 6:27pm
Subject: Re: Aloha!
We rented a Jeep when we honeymooned on Kauai some years ago. I got
a free topo from the State building in Lihue and we took the Jeep
wheeling up near the top of the island by way of Waimea canyon
(drive up the canyon and beyond the park/museum at the top). Lots of
neat trails which weren't too tough for the stock rental Jeep and
which took us away from the general tourist areas. There was another
trail somewhere on the east side near Kapaa, but I forget where the
trailhead was.
Matt
K7MTO
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Mike H." <hiett710@y...> wrote:
> Just wanted to rub in the fact that I'm checkin' my E-mail and
group
> messages from Kauai (Hawaii). Not a whole lot of Jeepin per se but
> we rented a little TJ and are driving arround with the top down in
> the middle of the summer (84 degrees).
89025 From: k7ant <k7ant@f...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 7:39pm
Subject: Re: The coves were disgusting
I agree with Joe......to an extent. I don't think the Coves mess is
strictly the fault of illegals. I agree it's uneducated asswipes, but
can't agree on it being trailer trash, as I live in one. Also, on the
illegals, lets either open the borders or enforce the laws with U.S.
troops down there. I don't care about the poor Mexican workers
looking for a better live, but do care about the Terrorist using PC
to invade us.
Either enforce the law or change it! And let find a way to get the
asswipes that trash the countryside.
Bill W
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Joe West" <arizonajeep@c...> wrote:
> Anyone who feels that they need to complain about illegal
immigrants...
> think about this:
>
> If the roles were reversed, and you were a Mexican national living
in
> Mexico... would you cross the border to the United States for the
> opportunity of a better life?
>
> I would... and I'd bring my family over... and I'd tell all my
friends
> to come over...
>
> I've seen vastly more white trailer trash asswipes throwing crap
out at
> the coves than I've seen immigrants doing it. This isn't just an
> immigrant problem, this is an un-educated HUMAN problem.
>
> Joe West
>
>
>
> >>I need to RANT!!!
>
> <snip>
89026 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sun Aug 10, 2003 8:03pm
Subject: [TR] Unspecified - Saturday, September 13, 2003 - Reminder
Hello All,Rick Beer is leading an Unspecified trail run on Saturday, September 13, 2003.<br><br>When: September 13th & 14th (week of a full moon)
Where: The Cracks aka Mini Moab <br>
between Holbrook & Heber AZ
Rating: None
Length: All day or weekend
CB Channel: CH-4
<br>
Meet 8am Chevron station 8 am rt 260 & 277 <br>
A few of us will be heading out early Friday the 12th possibly do a night run & camp out all week end <br>
this trail is rated a 3 to 3 1/2 <br>
Leave early drive time is around 2-3 hrs from Phoenix <br>
Bill Witt will be our trip leader
http://www.azvjc.org/default.asp?A=1&ID=946
Click the link above To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website