blooddrive
01-08-2004, 09:07 PM
88626-88650
88626 From: george Andrews <gandre01@m...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 3:04pm
Subject: Re: jeep cherokee
Steve,
I run the skyjacker kit on my '83 Cherokee. It is touted as a 4" lift but gets more like 5". I also have the dropped pitman arm and brake lines, as well as a 3" body lift to clear the big block. I run 35" tires on 15x10" black steel rims.
How many rims do you need. I believe I have a couple in my parts pile.
I can send you pictures if you are interested.
George Andrews
'83 Cherokee
'73 Wagoneer
'93 Grand Cherokee
'00 Wrangler
Avondale Arizona
----- Original Message -----
From: tilly
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 12:01 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] jeep cherokee
hey all i got a 1982 jeep cherokee. and im look for the best lift to
give it. can any one help? and i need to find some good rims that
are a 6 bolt pattern. any help would be great. thanx
steve
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
88627 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 3:15pm
Subject: Re: Damage on the trail
2 lessons to learn from this
1) Don't go unprepared
2) Don't assume someone else will be to get your sorry butt out of the
hole it is in.
Thanks James, what you said needed to be said.
So give us the skinny on what happened. You can delete all names if
necessary.
:-)
Chris
On Monday, August 4, 2003, at 12:01 PM, James Towle wrote:
> This is not directed at anyone in particular, it needs to be said.
>
> If you are going to take your rig on a trail that could cause possible
> damage to you rig, please have a working knowledge of how to fix it,
> some
> tools and/or the willingness to learn how to fix it, instead of letting
> someone else fix it for you. In addition, if your rig has known issues
> that
> possibly could affect it on the trail don't take it, especially if you
> don't
> have the parts or know how to fix it.
>
> Everyone is out to have a good time. If someone is working on your rig
> because you don't take care of your rig or you are just "driving it
> until it
> drops" they are not having a good time. So be respectful and know
> your, and
> your rig's, limitations. If I am with you and you have the attitude I
> have
> warned against in this posting, I will, from now on, continue without
> you.
> Don't be surprised.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --James
>
> The proceeding message was not intended to be "politically correct" in
> any
> way and was intended to bring home a point.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
88628 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 3:29pm
Subject: RE: Re: Damage on the trail
Matt and James bring up some very interesting points.
Matt stated "As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility for
ensuring everyone who starts a run, finishes the run." Of the runs I
do, I lead the run far more times than I follow someone else. While I
do have some feeling of responsibility when I am the leader, I am not a
hired guide. More often than not, I am the guy with the properly loaded
GPS and that usually prevents the group from taking too many wrong turns
(I'll NEVER say NO wrong turns!)....or, the other guy that was going to
lead the trail couldn't make it so I became the defacto trail boss and
we proceeded on. To push this responsibility issue onto the shoulder of
the guy in front may not exactly be the correct thing to do. On the
flip side of that coin, this fall, I will be providing the services as a
tail gunner and the folks on the trip are paying customers....and I
certainly do have a responsibility to ensure they get off the trail. (in
fact...the documentation provided to the driver goes into great detail
and states that the person will get off the trail, but if they trash
their vehicle, it is ultimately the owner's responsibility to have the
vehicle removed from the trail) (note...do not confuse my previous
statements with my saying I would leave someone on the trail if they
weren't paying).
Also....as a "trail boss", I have seen individuals decide that they no
longer wanted to stay in the company of the group I was leading.
So....what do we do there? How can the trail boss have a responsibility
to those on the run when some of those drivers won't act responsibly?
So....I suppose it is OK for them to tell you (the trail leader) to
politely blow off but the trail leader doesn't have the same options at
his/her disposal? Now that makes for a one sided situation.
I am not saying that Matt or James are right or wrong. I am just saying
I do believe there is more to the entire situation than what both Matt
and James said.
Anyone else want to add to the discussion?
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
>From: "Matt OBrien" <makaioo@y...>
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
>Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:36:02 -0000
>
>I couldn't agree more that folks need to be prepared before heading
>offroad. Adequate spare parts, tools and knowledge of how to
>use/replace/repair is essential. That said, there will always be
>times when folks need help on the trail, including myself.
>
>As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility for ensuring
>everyone who starts a run, finishes the run. Personally, I'll never
>leave anyone on the trail with a broken rig unless I know they have
>the situation under control or assitance on the way. At the same
>time, if certain individuals exhibit ineptitude time and again, I'll
>refuse to let them join subsequent runs which I lead.
>
>Matt
>K7MTO
>
>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
>wrote:
> > This is not directed at anyone in particular, it needs to be said.
> >
> > If you are going to take your rig on a trail that could cause
>possible
> > damage to you rig, please have a working knowledge of how to fix
>it, some
> > tools and/or the willingness to learn how to fix it, instead of
>letting
> > someone else fix it for you. In addition, if your rig has known
>issues that
> > possibly could affect it on the trail don't take it, especially if
>you don't
> > have the parts or know how to fix it.
> >
> > Everyone is out to have a good time. If someone is working on your
>rig
> > because you don't take care of your rig or you are just "driving
>it until it
> > drops" they are not having a good time. So be respectful and know
>your, and
> > your rig's, limitations. If I am with you and you have the
>attitude I have
> > warned against in this posting, I will, from now on, continue
>without you.
> > Don't be surprised.
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________ _______________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
88629 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 3:38pm
Subject: Re: Re: Damage on the trail
We need a Joe West disclaimer for this type of situation.
On Monday, August 4, 2003, at 03:29 PM, Stu Olson wrote:
> Matt and James bring up some very interesting points.
>
> Matt stated "As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility for
> ensuring everyone who starts a run, finishes the run." Of the runs I
> do, I lead the run far more times than I follow someone else. While I
> do have some feeling of responsibility when I am the leader, I am not a
> hired guide. More often than not, I am the guy with the properly
> loaded
> GPS and that usually prevents the group from taking too many wrong
> turns
> (I'll NEVER say NO wrong turns!)....or, the other guy that was going to
> lead the trail couldn't make it so I became the defacto trail boss and
> we proceeded on. To push this responsibility issue onto the shoulder
> of
> the guy in front may not exactly be the correct thing to do. On the
> flip side of that coin, this fall, I will be providing the services as
> a
> tail gunner and the folks on the trip are paying customers....and I
> certainly do have a responsibility to ensure they get off the trail.
> (in
> fact...the documentation provided to the driver goes into great detail
> and states that the person will get off the trail, but if they trash
> their vehicle, it is ultimately the owner's responsibility to have the
> vehicle removed from the trail) (note...do not confuse my previous
> statements with my saying I would leave someone on the trail if they
> weren't paying).
>
> Also....as a "trail boss", I have seen individuals decide that they no
> longer wanted to stay in the company of the group I was leading.
> So....what do we do there? How can the trail boss have a
> responsibility
> to those on the run when some of those drivers won't act responsibly?
> So....I suppose it is OK for them to tell you (the trail leader) to
> politely blow off but the trail leader doesn't have the same options at
> his/her disposal? Now that makes for a one sided situation.
>
> I am not saying that Matt or James are right or wrong. I am just
> saying
> I do believe there is more to the entire situation than what both Matt
> and James said.
>
> Anyone else want to add to the discussion?
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
>
>> From: "Matt OBrien" <makaioo@y...>
>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
>> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:36:02 -0000
>>
>> I couldn't agree more that folks need to be prepared before heading
>> offroad. Adequate spare parts, tools and knowledge of how to
>> use/replace/repair is essential. That said, there will always be
>> times when folks need help on the trail, including myself.
>>
>> As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility for ensuring
>> everyone who starts a run, finishes the run. Personally, I'll never
>> leave anyone on the trail with a broken rig unless I know they have
>> the situation under control or assitance on the way. At the same
>> time, if certain individuals exhibit ineptitude time and again, I'll
>> refuse to let them join subsequent runs which I lead.
>>
>> Matt
>> K7MTO
>>
>> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
>> wrote:
>>> This is not directed at anyone in particular, it needs to be said.
>>>
>>> If you are going to take your rig on a trail that could cause
>> possible
>>> damage to you rig, please have a working knowledge of how to fix
>> it, some
>>> tools and/or the willingness to learn how to fix it, instead of
>> letting
>>> someone else fix it for you. In addition, if your rig has known
>> issues that
>>> possibly could affect it on the trail don't take it, especially if
>> you don't
>>> have the parts or know how to fix it.
>>>
>>> Everyone is out to have a good time. If someone is working on your
>> rig
>>> because you don't take care of your rig or you are just "driving
>> it until it
>>> drops" they are not having a good time. So be respectful and know
>> your, and
>>> your rig's, limitations. If I am with you and you have the
>> attitude I have
>>> warned against in this posting, I will, from now on, continue
>> without you.
>>> Don't be surprised.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
88630 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 3:57pm
Subject: Re: Cashing out the 401K...Jeep mods to come (rapidly)!!!
I think I know where to find number 12 and 13....
Mike
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Dennis" <dannpegg@c...> wrote:
> Oh yeah...Almost forgot four more things to do!!!
>
> 11. Warn 8274
>
> 12. Mike Baney custom built swing away tire carrier
>
> 13. Mike Baney custom built rocker guards
>
> 14. Optima Blue Top (I think)
>
>
> Cha-CHING!!! My wife's gonna KILL ME!!! Oh well, at least my Jeep
> will be happy with all of the mods!!!
88631 From: Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 4:05pm
Subject: Re: Damage on the trail
Very good points, Stu.
I suppose I should've phrased my comments differntly. The trail
boss/leader shouldn't be held responsible (legally speaking) for
another's trail mishaps, but most of us do feel inherently
responsible for the groups we lead.
Ultimately, each person is responsible for themselves and their
equipment, but trail bosses/leaders usually take it upon themselves
to try and provide some level of responsibilty for the group as a
whole. It may mean, for example, assisting with repairs themselves,
or delegating (requesting) another member assist a down rig while the
leader continues on with the rest of the group.
If someone decides to split from the group, iMO, they implicitly
release any and all responsiblity from the leader and anyone else in
the group. This wouldn't make me feel any better if I weee to find
out something serious happened to someone I had been leading, but
this seems to be the general concensus of those I've talked to about
this.
btw, Once I get settled in AZ, I won't be leading any runs - just
tagging along - until I've gained enough experience on your trails.
Please don't leave me stranded in the desert :)
Matt
K7MTO
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Matt and James bring up some very interesting points.
>
> Matt stated "As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility
for
> ensuring everyone who starts a run, finishes the run." Of the runs
I
> do, I lead the run far more times than I follow someone else.
While I
> do have some feeling of responsibility when I am the leader, I am
not a
> hired guide. More often than not, I am the guy with the properly
loaded
> GPS and that usually prevents the group from taking too many wrong
turns
> (I'll NEVER say NO wrong turns!)....or, the other guy that was
going to
> lead the trail couldn't make it so I became the defacto trail boss
and
> we proceeded on. To push this responsibility issue onto the
shoulder of
> the guy in front may not exactly be the correct thing to do. On the
> flip side of that coin, this fall, I will be providing the services
as a
> tail gunner and the folks on the trip are paying customers....and I
> certainly do have a responsibility to ensure they get off the
trail. (in
> fact...the documentation provided to the driver goes into great
detail
> and states that the person will get off the trail, but if they trash
> their vehicle, it is ultimately the owner's responsibility to have
the
> vehicle removed from the trail) (note...do not confuse my previous
> statements with my saying I would leave someone on the trail if they
> weren't paying).
>
> Also....as a "trail boss", I have seen individuals decide that they
no
> longer wanted to stay in the company of the group I was leading.
> So....what do we do there? How can the trail boss have a
responsibility
> to those on the run when some of those drivers won't act
responsibly?
> So....I suppose it is OK for them to tell you (the trail leader) to
> politely blow off but the trail leader doesn't have the same
options at
> his/her disposal? Now that makes for a one sided situation.
>
> I am not saying that Matt or James are right or wrong. I am just
saying
> I do believe there is more to the entire situation than what both
Matt
> and James said.
>
> Anyone else want to add to the discussion?
88632 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 4:25pm
Subject: RE: Re: Damage on the trail
Why....Joe isn't leading any trails, is he? LOL
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 3:39 PM
To: Stu Olson
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
We need a Joe West disclaimer for this type of situation.
On Monday, August 4, 2003, at 03:29 PM, Stu Olson wrote:
> Matt and James bring up some very interesting points.
>
> Matt stated "As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility
for
> ensuring everyone who starts a run, finishes the run." Of the runs I
> do, I lead the run far more times than I follow someone else. While I
> do have some feeling of responsibility when I am the leader, I am not
a
> hired guide. More often than not, I am the guy with the properly
> loaded
> GPS and that usually prevents the group from taking too many wrong
> turns
> (I'll NEVER say NO wrong turns!)....or, the other guy that was going
to
> lead the trail couldn't make it so I became the defacto trail boss and
> we proceeded on. To push this responsibility issue onto the shoulder
> of
> the guy in front may not exactly be the correct thing to do. On the
> flip side of that coin, this fall, I will be providing the services as
> a
> tail gunner and the folks on the trip are paying customers....and I
> certainly do have a responsibility to ensure they get off the trail.
> (in
> fact...the documentation provided to the driver goes into great detail
> and states that the person will get off the trail, but if they trash
> their vehicle, it is ultimately the owner's responsibility to have the
> vehicle removed from the trail) (note...do not confuse my previous
> statements with my saying I would leave someone on the trail if they
> weren't paying).
>
> Also....as a "trail boss", I have seen individuals decide that they no
> longer wanted to stay in the company of the group I was leading.
> So....what do we do there? How can the trail boss have a
> responsibility
> to those on the run when some of those drivers won't act responsibly?
> So....I suppose it is OK for them to tell you (the trail leader) to
> politely blow off but the trail leader doesn't have the same options
at
> his/her disposal? Now that makes for a one sided situation.
>
> I am not saying that Matt or James are right or wrong. I am just
> saying
> I do believe there is more to the entire situation than what both Matt
> and James said.
>
> Anyone else want to add to the discussion?
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
>
>> From: "Matt OBrien" <makaioo@y...>
>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
>> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:36:02 -0000
>>
>> I couldn't agree more that folks need to be prepared before heading
>> offroad. Adequate spare parts, tools and knowledge of how to
>> use/replace/repair is essential. That said, there will always be
>> times when folks need help on the trail, including myself.
>>
>> As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility for ensuring
>> everyone who starts a run, finishes the run. Personally, I'll never
>> leave anyone on the trail with a broken rig unless I know they have
>> the situation under control or assitance on the way. At the same
>> time, if certain individuals exhibit ineptitude time and again, I'll
>> refuse to let them join subsequent runs which I lead.
>>
>> Matt
>> K7MTO
>>
>> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
>> wrote:
>>> This is not directed at anyone in particular, it needs to be said.
>>>
>>> If you are going to take your rig on a trail that could cause
>> possible
>>> damage to you rig, please have a working knowledge of how to fix
>> it, some
>>> tools and/or the willingness to learn how to fix it, instead of
>> letting
>>> someone else fix it for you. In addition, if your rig has known
>> issues that
>>> possibly could affect it on the trail don't take it, especially if
>> you don't
>>> have the parts or know how to fix it.
>>>
>>> Everyone is out to have a good time. If someone is working on your
>> rig
>>> because you don't take care of your rig or you are just "driving
>> it until it
>>> drops" they are not having a good time. So be respectful and know
>> your, and
>>> your rig's, limitations. If I am with you and you have the
>> attitude I have
>>> warned against in this posting, I will, from now on, continue
>> without you.
>>> Don't be surprised.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
88633 From: mike krzykowski <jeep_xj89@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 4:29pm
Subject:
check the front knuckle friend had same problem and it was the passenger knuckle
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88634 From: Mike Chatfield <Mike@A...>
Date: Wed Jun 4, 2003 4:35pm
Subject: [OT] Who can TIG weld an aluminum manifold?
I am looking to get some porting work done on an aluminum Intake manifold,
but before I do I need to have some dips and doodles filled in. If you can
help me out, let me know, I’ll send you pics or meet up with you so you can
give me an estimate on price…
Thanks,
Mike Chatfield
Caution: May contain opinions. Point away from brain, especially while
reading
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88635 From: chrisboettge <cheesit@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 5:01pm
Subject: RE: Re: Damage on the trail
IMHO people shouldn't be leaving town in a rig that is not worthy of
making the trip in the first place.... Not only can they get hurt,
they can also hurt others. For instance I've heard of people going
with no front brakes.... no spare tire.... etc etc. That would be
disrespectful to the whole group if you break down with known
problems in the first place.
I will say that I don't carry any spare parts but I also don't try
to do anything that I would have to cross my fingers hoping to make
the obsticle over either...... :)
I've seen a lot of people help out others they don't know on
breakdowns with the owners helping and very greatful... I suppose
you never have enough extra parts, but it's the owners
responsibility to maintain their own vehicles in the first place.
with that being said, there's no way on earth I would want to be
stranded during the summer....
88636 From: Chris <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 5:06pm
Subject: Re: Damage on the trail
I am sure there is more to the story, and I am not sure it is
entirely up to the trail leader, I (my own opinion) feel it is a
group effort. If we all start the trail we should all make sure we
get off the trail. I have been on runs where some decide to pick up
the pace and the next day you get an email, "Did everyone make it
home ok?". To me those are people I won't wheel with again. On a
couple of trips I have met some that are irresponsible or just have
a personality I did not like. I will still make sure they make it
off the trail, but don't expect me to go on a run with them in the
future.
No matter what(I guess almost no matter what as if someone threatens
your life leave them there) those on the run should make sure you at
least get off the trail.
JMO
Chris
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Matt and James bring up some very interesting points.
>
> Matt stated "As a general rule, the trail boss takes
responsibility for
> ensuring everyone who starts a run, finishes the run." Of the
runs I
> do, I lead the run far more times than I follow someone else.
While I
> do have some feeling of responsibility when I am the leader, I am
not a
> hired guide. More often than not, I am the guy with the properly
loaded
> GPS and that usually prevents the group from taking too many wrong
turns
> (I'll NEVER say NO wrong turns!)....or, the other guy that was
going to
> lead the trail couldn't make it so I became the defacto trail boss
and
> we proceeded on. To push this responsibility issue onto the
shoulder of
> the guy in front may not exactly be the correct thing to do. On
the
> flip side of that coin, this fall, I will be providing the
services as a
> tail gunner and the folks on the trip are paying customers....and I
> certainly do have a responsibility to ensure they get off the
trail. (in
> fact...the documentation provided to the driver goes into great
detail
> and states that the person will get off the trail, but if they
trash
> their vehicle, it is ultimately the owner's responsibility to have
the
> vehicle removed from the trail) (note...do not confuse my previous
> statements with my saying I would leave someone on the trail if
they
> weren't paying).
>
> Also....as a "trail boss", I have seen individuals decide that
they no
> longer wanted to stay in the company of the group I was leading.
> So....what do we do there? How can the trail boss have a
responsibility
> to those on the run when some of those drivers won't act
responsibly?
> So....I suppose it is OK for them to tell you (the trail leader) to
> politely blow off but the trail leader doesn't have the same
options at
> his/her disposal? Now that makes for a one sided situation.
>
> I am not saying that Matt or James are right or wrong. I am just
saying
> I do believe there is more to the entire situation than what both
Matt
> and James said.
>
> Anyone else want to add to the discussion?
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
>
> >From: "Matt OBrien" <makaioo@y...>
> >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
> >Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:36:02 -0000
> >
> >I couldn't agree more that folks need to be prepared before
heading
> >offroad. Adequate spare parts, tools and knowledge of how to
> >use/replace/repair is essential. That said, there will always be
> >times when folks need help on the trail, including myself.
> >
> >As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility for
ensuring
> >everyone who starts a run, finishes the run. Personally, I'll
never
> >leave anyone on the trail with a broken rig unless I know they
have
> >the situation under control or assitance on the way. At the same
> >time, if certain individuals exhibit ineptitude time and again,
I'll
> >refuse to let them join subsequent runs which I lead.
> >
> >Matt
> >K7MTO
> >
> >--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
> >wrote:
> > > This is not directed at anyone in particular, it needs to be
said.
> > >
> > > If you are going to take your rig on a trail that could cause
> >possible
> > > damage to you rig, please have a working knowledge of how to
fix
> >it, some
> > > tools and/or the willingness to learn how to fix it, instead of
> >letting
> > > someone else fix it for you. In addition, if your rig has known
> >issues that
> > > possibly could affect it on the trail don't take it,
especially if
> >you don't
> > > have the parts or know how to fix it.
> > >
> > > Everyone is out to have a good time. If someone is working on
your
> >rig
> > > because you don't take care of your rig or you are
just "driving
> >it until it
> > > drops" they are not having a good time. So be respectful and
know
> >your, and
> > > your rig's, limitations. If I am with you and you have the
> >attitude I have
> > > warned against in this posting, I will, from now on, continue
> >without you.
> > > Don't be surprised.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
88637 From: Chris <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 5:10pm
Subject: Re: Damage on the trail
Not that I am aware of, something about the no dust clause causing
issues with stickers or something like that... :o)
Chris
--------------------------------------------------------------------
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Why....Joe isn't leading any trails, is he? LOL
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 3:39 PM
> To: Stu Olson
> Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
>
> We need a Joe West disclaimer for this type of situation.
>
> On Monday, August 4, 2003, at 03:29 PM, Stu Olson wrote:
>
> > Matt and James bring up some very interesting points.
> >
> > Matt stated "As a general rule, the trail boss takes
responsibility
> for
> > ensuring everyone who starts a run, finishes the run." Of the
runs I
> > do, I lead the run far more times than I follow someone else.
While I
> > do have some feeling of responsibility when I am the leader, I
am not
> a
> > hired guide. More often than not, I am the guy with the
properly
> > loaded
> > GPS and that usually prevents the group from taking too many
wrong
> > turns
> > (I'll NEVER say NO wrong turns!)....or, the other guy that was
going
> to
> > lead the trail couldn't make it so I became the defacto trail
boss and
> > we proceeded on. To push this responsibility issue onto the
shoulder
> > of
> > the guy in front may not exactly be the correct thing to do. On
the
> > flip side of that coin, this fall, I will be providing the
services as
>
> > a
> > tail gunner and the folks on the trip are paying
customers....and I
> > certainly do have a responsibility to ensure they get off the
trail.
> > (in
> > fact...the documentation provided to the driver goes into great
detail
> > and states that the person will get off the trail, but if they
trash
> > their vehicle, it is ultimately the owner's responsibility to
have the
> > vehicle removed from the trail) (note...do not confuse my
previous
> > statements with my saying I would leave someone on the trail if
they
> > weren't paying).
> >
> > Also....as a "trail boss", I have seen individuals decide that
they no
> > longer wanted to stay in the company of the group I was leading.
> > So....what do we do there? How can the trail boss have a
> > responsibility
> > to those on the run when some of those drivers won't act
responsibly?
> > So....I suppose it is OK for them to tell you (the trail leader)
to
> > politely blow off but the trail leader doesn't have the same
options
> at
> > his/her disposal? Now that makes for a one sided situation.
> >
> > I am not saying that Matt or James are right or wrong. I am
just
> > saying
> > I do believe there is more to the entire situation than what
both Matt
> > and James said.
> >
> > Anyone else want to add to the discussion?
> >
> > Stu
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: "Matt OBrien" <makaioo@y...>
> >> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> >> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
> >> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:36:02 -0000
> >>
> >> I couldn't agree more that folks need to be prepared before
heading
> >> offroad. Adequate spare parts, tools and knowledge of how to
> >> use/replace/repair is essential. That said, there will always be
> >> times when folks need help on the trail, including myself.
> >>
> >> As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility for
ensuring
> >> everyone who starts a run, finishes the run. Personally, I'll
never
> >> leave anyone on the trail with a broken rig unless I know they
have
> >> the situation under control or assitance on the way. At the same
> >> time, if certain individuals exhibit ineptitude time and again,
I'll
> >> refuse to let them join subsequent runs which I lead.
> >>
> >> Matt
> >> K7MTO
> >>
> >> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
> >> wrote:
> >>> This is not directed at anyone in particular, it needs to be
said.
> >>>
> >>> If you are going to take your rig on a trail that could cause
> >> possible
> >>> damage to you rig, please have a working knowledge of how to
fix
> >> it, some
> >>> tools and/or the willingness to learn how to fix it, instead of
> >> letting
> >>> someone else fix it for you. In addition, if your rig has known
> >> issues that
> >>> possibly could affect it on the trail don't take it,
especially if
> >> you don't
> >>> have the parts or know how to fix it.
> >>>
> >>> Everyone is out to have a good time. If someone is working on
your
> >> rig
> >>> because you don't take care of your rig or you are
just "driving
> >> it until it
> >>> drops" they are not having a good time. So be respectful and
know
> >> your, and
> >>> your rig's, limitations. If I am with you and you have the
> >> attitude I have
> >>> warned against in this posting, I will, from now on, continue
> >> without you.
> >>> Don't be surprised.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>
> >>
> >
> > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
88638 From: Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 5:11pm
Subject: Re: Damage on the trail
It doesn't take an obstacle to cause a part failure. There are some
basic items/parts everyone should have in their trail kit, including
u-joints, belts, hoses, fluids, etc. No doubt down there water is #1
on the list. Here's a link to a basic list from our club site...
http://www.brushbuster.org/equipment.htm
There are other, more comprehensive lists around, but this should
provide a good starting point for anyone interested in putting
together a trail kit.
Matt
K7MTO
> I will say that I don't carry any spare parts but I also don't try
> to do anything that I would have to cross my fingers hoping to
make
> the obsticle over either...... :)
88639 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 5:19pm
Subject: RE: Re: Damage on the trail
Matt....thanks for posting that link. That is certainly a good reminder
for all of us.
(I still carry a stock TJ tie rod in case someone pretzels theirs on the
trail and then they will be eternally grateful for that little ol'
hollow tube I have zip tied up under the tub!)
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt OBrien [mailto:makaioo@y...]
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 5:11 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
It doesn't take an obstacle to cause a part failure. There are some
basic items/parts everyone should have in their trail kit, including
u-joints, belts, hoses, fluids, etc. No doubt down there water is #1
on the list. Here's a link to a basic list from our club site...
http://www.brushbuster.org/equipment.htm
There are other, more comprehensive lists around, but this should
provide a good starting point for anyone interested in putting
together a trail kit.
Matt
K7MTO
> I will say that I don't carry any spare parts but I also don't try
> to do anything that I would have to cross my fingers hoping to
make
> the obsticle over either...... :)
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
88640 From: Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 5:24pm
Subject: Re: Damage on the trail
And when I get there, I'll probably have a problem on my first AZ
trail run and not have what I need to fix it :)
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Matt....thanks for posting that link. That is certainly a good
reminder
> for all of us.
88641 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 6:29pm
Subject: RE: Trail Leader responsibilities was Re: Damage on the trail
I have lead a few runs myself. And been on runs with several different
leaders. Stu's got one of the best systems for leading a trail. I kinda
stole some of his tactics when I lead as well. Maybe you could jot some of
it down as a "trail leader guide" to give others an idea?
Frank
http://groups.msn.com/BadAzXJ
http://groups.msn.com/badazxj/arizonaundertakers.msnw
>From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
>Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 15:29:45 -0700
>
>Matt and James bring up some very interesting points.
>
>Matt stated "As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility for
>ensuring everyone who starts a run, finishes the run." Of the runs I
>do, I lead the run far more times than I follow someone else. While I
>do have some feeling of responsibility when I am the leader, I am not a
>hired guide. More often than not, I am the guy with the properly loaded
>GPS and that usually prevents the group from taking too many wrong turns
>(I'll NEVER say NO wrong turns!)....or, the other guy that was going to
>lead the trail couldn't make it so I became the defacto trail boss and
>we proceeded on. To push this responsibility issue onto the shoulder of
>the guy in front may not exactly be the correct thing to do. On the
>flip side of that coin, this fall, I will be providing the services as a
>tail gunner and the folks on the trip are paying customers....and I
>certainly do have a responsibility to ensure they get off the trail. (in
>fact...the documentation provided to the driver goes into great detail
>and states that the person will get off the trail, but if they trash
>their vehicle, it is ultimately the owner's responsibility to have the
>vehicle removed from the trail) (note...do not confuse my previous
>statements with my saying I would leave someone on the trail if they
>weren't paying).
>
>Also....as a "trail boss", I have seen individuals decide that they no
>longer wanted to stay in the company of the group I was leading.
>So....what do we do there? How can the trail boss have a responsibility
>to those on the run when some of those drivers won't act responsibly?
>So....I suppose it is OK for them to tell you (the trail leader) to
>politely blow off but the trail leader doesn't have the same options at
>his/her disposal? Now that makes for a one sided situation.
>
>I am not saying that Matt or James are right or wrong. I am just saying
>I do believe there is more to the entire situation than what both Matt
>and James said.
>
>Anyone else want to add to the discussion?
>
>Stu
>
>Stu Olson
>www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
>
> >From: "Matt OBrien" <makaioo@y...>
> >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
> >Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:36:02 -0000
> >
> >I couldn't agree more that folks need to be prepared before heading
> >offroad. Adequate spare parts, tools and knowledge of how to
> >use/replace/repair is essential. That said, there will always be
> >times when folks need help on the trail, including myself.
> >
> >As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility for ensuring
> >everyone who starts a run, finishes the run. Personally, I'll never
> >leave anyone on the trail with a broken rig unless I know they have
> >the situation under control or assitance on the way. At the same
> >time, if certain individuals exhibit ineptitude time and again, I'll
> >refuse to let them join subsequent runs which I lead.
> >
> >Matt
> >K7MTO
> >
> >--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
> >wrote:
> > > This is not directed at anyone in particular, it needs to be said.
> > >
> > > If you are going to take your rig on a trail that could cause
> >possible
> > > damage to you rig, please have a working knowledge of how to fix
> >it, some
> > > tools and/or the willingness to learn how to fix it, instead of
> >letting
> > > someone else fix it for you. In addition, if your rig has known
> >issues that
> > > possibly could affect it on the trail don't take it, especially if
> >you don't
> > > have the parts or know how to fix it.
> > >
> > > Everyone is out to have a good time. If someone is working on your
> >rig
> > > because you don't take care of your rig or you are just "driving
> >it until it
> > > drops" they are not having a good time. So be respectful and know
> >your, and
> > > your rig's, limitations. If I am with you and you have the
> >attitude I have
> > > warned against in this posting, I will, from now on, continue
> >without you.
> > > Don't be surprised.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>__________________________________________________ _______________
>The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________ _______________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
88642 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 6:49pm
Subject: RE: Trail Leader responsibilities was Re: Damage on the trail
Frank,
This probably doesn't cover everything it could, but I've had it on my
site for a while and I think it can most folks off to a good start.
There is always room for improvement....I'll be happy to entertain good
ideas.
http://www.stu-offroad.com/misc/etiquette.htm
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:badazxj@m...]
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 6:30 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; solson8@q...
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Trail Leader responsibilities was Re: Damage on
the trail
I have lead a few runs myself. And been on runs with several different
leaders. Stu's got one of the best systems for leading a trail. I kinda
stole some of his tactics when I lead as well. Maybe you could jot some
of
it down as a "trail leader guide" to give others an idea?
Frank
http://groups.msn.com/BadAzXJ
http://groups.msn.com/badazxj/arizonaundertakers.msnw
>From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
>Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 15:29:45 -0700
>
>Matt and James bring up some very interesting points.
>
>Matt stated "As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility for
>ensuring everyone who starts a run, finishes the run." Of the runs I
>do, I lead the run far more times than I follow someone else. While I
>do have some feeling of responsibility when I am the leader, I am not a
>hired guide. More often than not, I am the guy with the properly
loaded
>GPS and that usually prevents the group from taking too many wrong
turns
>(I'll NEVER say NO wrong turns!)....or, the other guy that was going to
>lead the trail couldn't make it so I became the defacto trail boss and
>we proceeded on. To push this responsibility issue onto the shoulder
of
>the guy in front may not exactly be the correct thing to do. On the
>flip side of that coin, this fall, I will be providing the services as
a
>tail gunner and the folks on the trip are paying customers....and I
>certainly do have a responsibility to ensure they get off the trail.
(in
>fact...the documentation provided to the driver goes into great detail
>and states that the person will get off the trail, but if they trash
>their vehicle, it is ultimately the owner's responsibility to have the
>vehicle removed from the trail) (note...do not confuse my previous
>statements with my saying I would leave someone on the trail if they
>weren't paying).
>
>Also....as a "trail boss", I have seen individuals decide that they no
>longer wanted to stay in the company of the group I was leading.
>So....what do we do there? How can the trail boss have a
responsibility
>to those on the run when some of those drivers won't act responsibly?
>So....I suppose it is OK for them to tell you (the trail leader) to
>politely blow off but the trail leader doesn't have the same options at
>his/her disposal? Now that makes for a one sided situation.
>
>I am not saying that Matt or James are right or wrong. I am just
saying
>I do believe there is more to the entire situation than what both Matt
>and James said.
>
>Anyone else want to add to the discussion?
>
>Stu
>
>Stu Olson
>www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
>
> >From: "Matt OBrien" <makaioo@y...>
> >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
> >Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:36:02 -0000
> >
> >I couldn't agree more that folks need to be prepared before heading
> >offroad. Adequate spare parts, tools and knowledge of how to
> >use/replace/repair is essential. That said, there will always be
> >times when folks need help on the trail, including myself.
> >
> >As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility for ensuring
> >everyone who starts a run, finishes the run. Personally, I'll never
> >leave anyone on the trail with a broken rig unless I know they have
> >the situation under control or assitance on the way. At the same
> >time, if certain individuals exhibit ineptitude time and again, I'll
> >refuse to let them join subsequent runs which I lead.
> >
> >Matt
> >K7MTO
> >
> >--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
> >wrote:
> > > This is not directed at anyone in particular, it needs to be said.
> > >
> > > If you are going to take your rig on a trail that could cause
> >possible
> > > damage to you rig, please have a working knowledge of how to fix
> >it, some
> > > tools and/or the willingness to learn how to fix it, instead of
> >letting
> > > someone else fix it for you. In addition, if your rig has known
> >issues that
> > > possibly could affect it on the trail don't take it, especially if
> >you don't
> > > have the parts or know how to fix it.
> > >
> > > Everyone is out to have a good time. If someone is working on your
> >rig
> > > because you don't take care of your rig or you are just "driving
> >it until it
> > > drops" they are not having a good time. So be respectful and know
> >your, and
> > > your rig's, limitations. If I am with you and you have the
> >attitude I have
> > > warned against in this posting, I will, from now on, continue
> >without you.
> > > Don't be surprised.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>__________________________________________________ _______________
>The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________ _______________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
88643 From: <dzrtoffroad@a...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 3:05pm
Subject: Re: Trail Leader responsibilities was Re: Damage on the trail
ok, i can chime in now too???????
what the heck...........
"trail boss" sounds like i'm herding cattle :)
i have wheeled with many and some come out with a rig that they know is
already skating on thin ice mechanically. these guys then fall into four
catagories:
1. they have tools and know how to fix their ****- i can handle them :)
2. they know how to fix but have no tools- BUMMER
3. they have tools but don't know how to fix- NOT TOO BAD
4. they have no tools and don't know how to fix either- TOTAL BUMMER
you learn the hard way to shy away from the guys that cause you a lot of time
and work to get through the trail.
then there are those that come best prepared as reasonably possible-tools and
parts. you can only carry so much. then the "buddy system" comes into play
when tools and parts that the guy doesn't have start showing up from all
directions!
RULE OF THUMB:
if you fall into the catagory 2 or 4 above......you may find yourself without
any wheelin buds after a few trips :)
if you can't play with the big boys, stay on the porch??????????????
AMEN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88644 From: Marty <robatari@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 7:10pm
Subject: Help need tj steering knuckle
Would any one know where I could find a steering knuckle For a 98
tj,pasenger side,d30.The lower caliper bolt hole is stripped on
mine.
88645 From: jetowle2000 <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 7:24pm
Subject: Re: Damage on the trail
Like I said, this isn't directed at anyone in particular.
I 'think' there is a problem that I haven't seen before now. That
is, people can go out and buy almost any rig or have a number of
different companies modify their rig. Then these people don't
maintain their rig, they don't know what they have and if they did
know what they have they don't know how to fix it if it breaks. Who
does that leave to fix their rig when it breaks?
As for me, I hate letting other people working on my junk. I don't
set gears though, leave that to the professionals. I, like Nick,
have not gone wheeling a few times because maintenence had to be
done first.
This is a question about trail leaders, that might be considered, if
you were looking at from my point of view; I have a bad back (hell,
sometimes I can't do what needs to be done on my junk), but if
someone breaks down that doesn't know how to fix their rig and they
are expecting me to do it and my back is acting up. They might be in
trouble no matter what the situation is.
Do not get me wrong, breaking is part of the game and I don't mind
helping. A bunch of you know this.
Three things:
Don't sit on the sideline and watch someone fix your rig.
Anticipate breaks, do maintenence.
Be prepared (the old Boy Scout thing), as you can be. Something is
going to break, it's just a matter of time.
--James
Oh yeah, have fun...
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...> wrote:
> 2 lessons to learn from this
>
> 1) Don't go unprepared
>
> 2) Don't assume someone else will be to get your sorry butt out of
the
> hole it is in.
>
> Thanks James, what you said needed to be said.
>
> So give us the skinny on what happened. You can delete all names
if
> necessary.
>
> :-)
>
> Chris
>
> On Monday, August 4, 2003, at 12:01 PM, James Towle wrote:
>
> > This is not directed at anyone in particular, it needs to be
said.
> >
> > If you are going to take your rig on a trail that could cause
possible
> > damage to you rig, please have a working knowledge of how to fix
it,
> > some
> > tools and/or the willingness to learn how to fix it, instead of
letting
> > someone else fix it for you. In addition, if your rig has known
issues
> > that
> > possibly could affect it on the trail don't take it, especially
if you
> > don't
> > have the parts or know how to fix it.
> >
> > Everyone is out to have a good time. If someone is working on
your rig
> > because you don't take care of your rig or you are just "driving
it
> > until it
> > drops" they are not having a good time. So be respectful and
know
> > your, and
> > your rig's, limitations. If I am with you and you have the
attitude I
> > have
> > warned against in this posting, I will, from now on, continue
without
> > you.
> > Don't be surprised.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > --James
> >
> > The proceeding message was not intended to be "politically
correct" in
> > any
> > way and was intended to bring home a point.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
88646 From: <dzrtoffroad@a...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 3:29pm
Subject: Re: Re: Damage on the trail
In a message dated 8/4/03 7:25:10 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
James.Towle@a... writes:
> Don't sit on the sideline and watch someone fix your rig.
>
THIS WOULD BE *** KICKIN TIME :)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88647 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 7:33pm
Subject: RE: Help need tj steering knuckle
Marty,
Have you considered using a Heli-Coil kit? You drill and tap the
stripped hole to a larger size and then thread in an insert that
restores it to the correct size.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Marty [mailto:robatari@y...]
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 7:11 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Help need tj steering knuckle
Would any one know where I could find a steering knuckle For a 98
tj,pasenger side,d30.The lower caliper bolt hole is stripped on
mine.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
88648 From: <febu15@a...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 3:34pm
Subject: Re: Trail Leader responsibilities was Re: Damage on the trail
Hello all... I have to agree with Steve... He said it
right...hopefully most of the folks that wheel have enough smarts to know there
Jeep... I don't think anyone should ever be left on the trail no matter what....
Its no different than the guys that ( and you know who you are ) never help
with anything, or anyone on a run,, just sit in the A.C and watch others... that
when they need help,, thats different...
How many out of 1700 people really wheel anyway... is it a
big problem that I haven't seen yet?? It seems like most all the people help
out,,, and are more than willing to help out.... and lend a tool that others may
not have....
The biggest thing I have to say is IF YOU START AS A GROUP ,
YOU SHOULD END AS A GROUP...if you don't like people or someone on the
run,,,don't go with them again...Just have fun!!! and hope like h*ll your ujoints
hold them big tires...
Paul CJ76
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88649 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 7:36pm
Subject: RE: Help need tj steering knuckle
In case you want a head start on it, try
http://www.helicoil.com/
for some more information.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 7:33 PM
To: 'Marty'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Help need tj steering knuckle
Marty,
Have you considered using a Heli-Coil kit? You drill and tap the
stripped hole to a larger size and then thread in an insert that
restores it to the correct size.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Marty [mailto:robatari@y...]
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 7:11 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Help need tj steering knuckle
Would any one know where I could find a steering knuckle For a 98
tj,pasenger side,d30.The lower caliper bolt hole is stripped on
mine.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
88650 From: Mike & Karen Acuna <mkacuna@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 7:36pm
Subject: cool camping gadget
http://www.campfireinacan.com/home_page2.htm
Mike
98 ZJ
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88626 From: george Andrews <gandre01@m...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 3:04pm
Subject: Re: jeep cherokee
Steve,
I run the skyjacker kit on my '83 Cherokee. It is touted as a 4" lift but gets more like 5". I also have the dropped pitman arm and brake lines, as well as a 3" body lift to clear the big block. I run 35" tires on 15x10" black steel rims.
How many rims do you need. I believe I have a couple in my parts pile.
I can send you pictures if you are interested.
George Andrews
'83 Cherokee
'73 Wagoneer
'93 Grand Cherokee
'00 Wrangler
Avondale Arizona
----- Original Message -----
From: tilly
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 12:01 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] jeep cherokee
hey all i got a 1982 jeep cherokee. and im look for the best lift to
give it. can any one help? and i need to find some good rims that
are a 6 bolt pattern. any help would be great. thanx
steve
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
88627 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 3:15pm
Subject: Re: Damage on the trail
2 lessons to learn from this
1) Don't go unprepared
2) Don't assume someone else will be to get your sorry butt out of the
hole it is in.
Thanks James, what you said needed to be said.
So give us the skinny on what happened. You can delete all names if
necessary.
:-)
Chris
On Monday, August 4, 2003, at 12:01 PM, James Towle wrote:
> This is not directed at anyone in particular, it needs to be said.
>
> If you are going to take your rig on a trail that could cause possible
> damage to you rig, please have a working knowledge of how to fix it,
> some
> tools and/or the willingness to learn how to fix it, instead of letting
> someone else fix it for you. In addition, if your rig has known issues
> that
> possibly could affect it on the trail don't take it, especially if you
> don't
> have the parts or know how to fix it.
>
> Everyone is out to have a good time. If someone is working on your rig
> because you don't take care of your rig or you are just "driving it
> until it
> drops" they are not having a good time. So be respectful and know
> your, and
> your rig's, limitations. If I am with you and you have the attitude I
> have
> warned against in this posting, I will, from now on, continue without
> you.
> Don't be surprised.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --James
>
> The proceeding message was not intended to be "politically correct" in
> any
> way and was intended to bring home a point.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
88628 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 3:29pm
Subject: RE: Re: Damage on the trail
Matt and James bring up some very interesting points.
Matt stated "As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility for
ensuring everyone who starts a run, finishes the run." Of the runs I
do, I lead the run far more times than I follow someone else. While I
do have some feeling of responsibility when I am the leader, I am not a
hired guide. More often than not, I am the guy with the properly loaded
GPS and that usually prevents the group from taking too many wrong turns
(I'll NEVER say NO wrong turns!)....or, the other guy that was going to
lead the trail couldn't make it so I became the defacto trail boss and
we proceeded on. To push this responsibility issue onto the shoulder of
the guy in front may not exactly be the correct thing to do. On the
flip side of that coin, this fall, I will be providing the services as a
tail gunner and the folks on the trip are paying customers....and I
certainly do have a responsibility to ensure they get off the trail. (in
fact...the documentation provided to the driver goes into great detail
and states that the person will get off the trail, but if they trash
their vehicle, it is ultimately the owner's responsibility to have the
vehicle removed from the trail) (note...do not confuse my previous
statements with my saying I would leave someone on the trail if they
weren't paying).
Also....as a "trail boss", I have seen individuals decide that they no
longer wanted to stay in the company of the group I was leading.
So....what do we do there? How can the trail boss have a responsibility
to those on the run when some of those drivers won't act responsibly?
So....I suppose it is OK for them to tell you (the trail leader) to
politely blow off but the trail leader doesn't have the same options at
his/her disposal? Now that makes for a one sided situation.
I am not saying that Matt or James are right or wrong. I am just saying
I do believe there is more to the entire situation than what both Matt
and James said.
Anyone else want to add to the discussion?
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
>From: "Matt OBrien" <makaioo@y...>
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
>Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:36:02 -0000
>
>I couldn't agree more that folks need to be prepared before heading
>offroad. Adequate spare parts, tools and knowledge of how to
>use/replace/repair is essential. That said, there will always be
>times when folks need help on the trail, including myself.
>
>As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility for ensuring
>everyone who starts a run, finishes the run. Personally, I'll never
>leave anyone on the trail with a broken rig unless I know they have
>the situation under control or assitance on the way. At the same
>time, if certain individuals exhibit ineptitude time and again, I'll
>refuse to let them join subsequent runs which I lead.
>
>Matt
>K7MTO
>
>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
>wrote:
> > This is not directed at anyone in particular, it needs to be said.
> >
> > If you are going to take your rig on a trail that could cause
>possible
> > damage to you rig, please have a working knowledge of how to fix
>it, some
> > tools and/or the willingness to learn how to fix it, instead of
>letting
> > someone else fix it for you. In addition, if your rig has known
>issues that
> > possibly could affect it on the trail don't take it, especially if
>you don't
> > have the parts or know how to fix it.
> >
> > Everyone is out to have a good time. If someone is working on your
>rig
> > because you don't take care of your rig or you are just "driving
>it until it
> > drops" they are not having a good time. So be respectful and know
>your, and
> > your rig's, limitations. If I am with you and you have the
>attitude I have
> > warned against in this posting, I will, from now on, continue
>without you.
> > Don't be surprised.
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________ _______________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
88629 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 3:38pm
Subject: Re: Re: Damage on the trail
We need a Joe West disclaimer for this type of situation.
On Monday, August 4, 2003, at 03:29 PM, Stu Olson wrote:
> Matt and James bring up some very interesting points.
>
> Matt stated "As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility for
> ensuring everyone who starts a run, finishes the run." Of the runs I
> do, I lead the run far more times than I follow someone else. While I
> do have some feeling of responsibility when I am the leader, I am not a
> hired guide. More often than not, I am the guy with the properly
> loaded
> GPS and that usually prevents the group from taking too many wrong
> turns
> (I'll NEVER say NO wrong turns!)....or, the other guy that was going to
> lead the trail couldn't make it so I became the defacto trail boss and
> we proceeded on. To push this responsibility issue onto the shoulder
> of
> the guy in front may not exactly be the correct thing to do. On the
> flip side of that coin, this fall, I will be providing the services as
> a
> tail gunner and the folks on the trip are paying customers....and I
> certainly do have a responsibility to ensure they get off the trail.
> (in
> fact...the documentation provided to the driver goes into great detail
> and states that the person will get off the trail, but if they trash
> their vehicle, it is ultimately the owner's responsibility to have the
> vehicle removed from the trail) (note...do not confuse my previous
> statements with my saying I would leave someone on the trail if they
> weren't paying).
>
> Also....as a "trail boss", I have seen individuals decide that they no
> longer wanted to stay in the company of the group I was leading.
> So....what do we do there? How can the trail boss have a
> responsibility
> to those on the run when some of those drivers won't act responsibly?
> So....I suppose it is OK for them to tell you (the trail leader) to
> politely blow off but the trail leader doesn't have the same options at
> his/her disposal? Now that makes for a one sided situation.
>
> I am not saying that Matt or James are right or wrong. I am just
> saying
> I do believe there is more to the entire situation than what both Matt
> and James said.
>
> Anyone else want to add to the discussion?
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
>
>> From: "Matt OBrien" <makaioo@y...>
>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
>> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:36:02 -0000
>>
>> I couldn't agree more that folks need to be prepared before heading
>> offroad. Adequate spare parts, tools and knowledge of how to
>> use/replace/repair is essential. That said, there will always be
>> times when folks need help on the trail, including myself.
>>
>> As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility for ensuring
>> everyone who starts a run, finishes the run. Personally, I'll never
>> leave anyone on the trail with a broken rig unless I know they have
>> the situation under control or assitance on the way. At the same
>> time, if certain individuals exhibit ineptitude time and again, I'll
>> refuse to let them join subsequent runs which I lead.
>>
>> Matt
>> K7MTO
>>
>> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
>> wrote:
>>> This is not directed at anyone in particular, it needs to be said.
>>>
>>> If you are going to take your rig on a trail that could cause
>> possible
>>> damage to you rig, please have a working knowledge of how to fix
>> it, some
>>> tools and/or the willingness to learn how to fix it, instead of
>> letting
>>> someone else fix it for you. In addition, if your rig has known
>> issues that
>>> possibly could affect it on the trail don't take it, especially if
>> you don't
>>> have the parts or know how to fix it.
>>>
>>> Everyone is out to have a good time. If someone is working on your
>> rig
>>> because you don't take care of your rig or you are just "driving
>> it until it
>>> drops" they are not having a good time. So be respectful and know
>> your, and
>>> your rig's, limitations. If I am with you and you have the
>> attitude I have
>>> warned against in this posting, I will, from now on, continue
>> without you.
>>> Don't be surprised.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
88630 From: jeepin_in_az <jeepin_in_az@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 3:57pm
Subject: Re: Cashing out the 401K...Jeep mods to come (rapidly)!!!
I think I know where to find number 12 and 13....
Mike
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Dennis" <dannpegg@c...> wrote:
> Oh yeah...Almost forgot four more things to do!!!
>
> 11. Warn 8274
>
> 12. Mike Baney custom built swing away tire carrier
>
> 13. Mike Baney custom built rocker guards
>
> 14. Optima Blue Top (I think)
>
>
> Cha-CHING!!! My wife's gonna KILL ME!!! Oh well, at least my Jeep
> will be happy with all of the mods!!!
88631 From: Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 4:05pm
Subject: Re: Damage on the trail
Very good points, Stu.
I suppose I should've phrased my comments differntly. The trail
boss/leader shouldn't be held responsible (legally speaking) for
another's trail mishaps, but most of us do feel inherently
responsible for the groups we lead.
Ultimately, each person is responsible for themselves and their
equipment, but trail bosses/leaders usually take it upon themselves
to try and provide some level of responsibilty for the group as a
whole. It may mean, for example, assisting with repairs themselves,
or delegating (requesting) another member assist a down rig while the
leader continues on with the rest of the group.
If someone decides to split from the group, iMO, they implicitly
release any and all responsiblity from the leader and anyone else in
the group. This wouldn't make me feel any better if I weee to find
out something serious happened to someone I had been leading, but
this seems to be the general concensus of those I've talked to about
this.
btw, Once I get settled in AZ, I won't be leading any runs - just
tagging along - until I've gained enough experience on your trails.
Please don't leave me stranded in the desert :)
Matt
K7MTO
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Matt and James bring up some very interesting points.
>
> Matt stated "As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility
for
> ensuring everyone who starts a run, finishes the run." Of the runs
I
> do, I lead the run far more times than I follow someone else.
While I
> do have some feeling of responsibility when I am the leader, I am
not a
> hired guide. More often than not, I am the guy with the properly
loaded
> GPS and that usually prevents the group from taking too many wrong
turns
> (I'll NEVER say NO wrong turns!)....or, the other guy that was
going to
> lead the trail couldn't make it so I became the defacto trail boss
and
> we proceeded on. To push this responsibility issue onto the
shoulder of
> the guy in front may not exactly be the correct thing to do. On the
> flip side of that coin, this fall, I will be providing the services
as a
> tail gunner and the folks on the trip are paying customers....and I
> certainly do have a responsibility to ensure they get off the
trail. (in
> fact...the documentation provided to the driver goes into great
detail
> and states that the person will get off the trail, but if they trash
> their vehicle, it is ultimately the owner's responsibility to have
the
> vehicle removed from the trail) (note...do not confuse my previous
> statements with my saying I would leave someone on the trail if they
> weren't paying).
>
> Also....as a "trail boss", I have seen individuals decide that they
no
> longer wanted to stay in the company of the group I was leading.
> So....what do we do there? How can the trail boss have a
responsibility
> to those on the run when some of those drivers won't act
responsibly?
> So....I suppose it is OK for them to tell you (the trail leader) to
> politely blow off but the trail leader doesn't have the same
options at
> his/her disposal? Now that makes for a one sided situation.
>
> I am not saying that Matt or James are right or wrong. I am just
saying
> I do believe there is more to the entire situation than what both
Matt
> and James said.
>
> Anyone else want to add to the discussion?
88632 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 4:25pm
Subject: RE: Re: Damage on the trail
Why....Joe isn't leading any trails, is he? LOL
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 3:39 PM
To: Stu Olson
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
We need a Joe West disclaimer for this type of situation.
On Monday, August 4, 2003, at 03:29 PM, Stu Olson wrote:
> Matt and James bring up some very interesting points.
>
> Matt stated "As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility
for
> ensuring everyone who starts a run, finishes the run." Of the runs I
> do, I lead the run far more times than I follow someone else. While I
> do have some feeling of responsibility when I am the leader, I am not
a
> hired guide. More often than not, I am the guy with the properly
> loaded
> GPS and that usually prevents the group from taking too many wrong
> turns
> (I'll NEVER say NO wrong turns!)....or, the other guy that was going
to
> lead the trail couldn't make it so I became the defacto trail boss and
> we proceeded on. To push this responsibility issue onto the shoulder
> of
> the guy in front may not exactly be the correct thing to do. On the
> flip side of that coin, this fall, I will be providing the services as
> a
> tail gunner and the folks on the trip are paying customers....and I
> certainly do have a responsibility to ensure they get off the trail.
> (in
> fact...the documentation provided to the driver goes into great detail
> and states that the person will get off the trail, but if they trash
> their vehicle, it is ultimately the owner's responsibility to have the
> vehicle removed from the trail) (note...do not confuse my previous
> statements with my saying I would leave someone on the trail if they
> weren't paying).
>
> Also....as a "trail boss", I have seen individuals decide that they no
> longer wanted to stay in the company of the group I was leading.
> So....what do we do there? How can the trail boss have a
> responsibility
> to those on the run when some of those drivers won't act responsibly?
> So....I suppose it is OK for them to tell you (the trail leader) to
> politely blow off but the trail leader doesn't have the same options
at
> his/her disposal? Now that makes for a one sided situation.
>
> I am not saying that Matt or James are right or wrong. I am just
> saying
> I do believe there is more to the entire situation than what both Matt
> and James said.
>
> Anyone else want to add to the discussion?
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
>
>> From: "Matt OBrien" <makaioo@y...>
>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
>> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:36:02 -0000
>>
>> I couldn't agree more that folks need to be prepared before heading
>> offroad. Adequate spare parts, tools and knowledge of how to
>> use/replace/repair is essential. That said, there will always be
>> times when folks need help on the trail, including myself.
>>
>> As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility for ensuring
>> everyone who starts a run, finishes the run. Personally, I'll never
>> leave anyone on the trail with a broken rig unless I know they have
>> the situation under control or assitance on the way. At the same
>> time, if certain individuals exhibit ineptitude time and again, I'll
>> refuse to let them join subsequent runs which I lead.
>>
>> Matt
>> K7MTO
>>
>> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
>> wrote:
>>> This is not directed at anyone in particular, it needs to be said.
>>>
>>> If you are going to take your rig on a trail that could cause
>> possible
>>> damage to you rig, please have a working knowledge of how to fix
>> it, some
>>> tools and/or the willingness to learn how to fix it, instead of
>> letting
>>> someone else fix it for you. In addition, if your rig has known
>> issues that
>>> possibly could affect it on the trail don't take it, especially if
>> you don't
>>> have the parts or know how to fix it.
>>>
>>> Everyone is out to have a good time. If someone is working on your
>> rig
>>> because you don't take care of your rig or you are just "driving
>> it until it
>>> drops" they are not having a good time. So be respectful and know
>> your, and
>>> your rig's, limitations. If I am with you and you have the
>> attitude I have
>>> warned against in this posting, I will, from now on, continue
>> without you.
>>> Don't be surprised.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
88633 From: mike krzykowski <jeep_xj89@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 4:29pm
Subject:
check the front knuckle friend had same problem and it was the passenger knuckle
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88634 From: Mike Chatfield <Mike@A...>
Date: Wed Jun 4, 2003 4:35pm
Subject: [OT] Who can TIG weld an aluminum manifold?
I am looking to get some porting work done on an aluminum Intake manifold,
but before I do I need to have some dips and doodles filled in. If you can
help me out, let me know, I’ll send you pics or meet up with you so you can
give me an estimate on price…
Thanks,
Mike Chatfield
Caution: May contain opinions. Point away from brain, especially while
reading
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88635 From: chrisboettge <cheesit@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 5:01pm
Subject: RE: Re: Damage on the trail
IMHO people shouldn't be leaving town in a rig that is not worthy of
making the trip in the first place.... Not only can they get hurt,
they can also hurt others. For instance I've heard of people going
with no front brakes.... no spare tire.... etc etc. That would be
disrespectful to the whole group if you break down with known
problems in the first place.
I will say that I don't carry any spare parts but I also don't try
to do anything that I would have to cross my fingers hoping to make
the obsticle over either...... :)
I've seen a lot of people help out others they don't know on
breakdowns with the owners helping and very greatful... I suppose
you never have enough extra parts, but it's the owners
responsibility to maintain their own vehicles in the first place.
with that being said, there's no way on earth I would want to be
stranded during the summer....
88636 From: Chris <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 5:06pm
Subject: Re: Damage on the trail
I am sure there is more to the story, and I am not sure it is
entirely up to the trail leader, I (my own opinion) feel it is a
group effort. If we all start the trail we should all make sure we
get off the trail. I have been on runs where some decide to pick up
the pace and the next day you get an email, "Did everyone make it
home ok?". To me those are people I won't wheel with again. On a
couple of trips I have met some that are irresponsible or just have
a personality I did not like. I will still make sure they make it
off the trail, but don't expect me to go on a run with them in the
future.
No matter what(I guess almost no matter what as if someone threatens
your life leave them there) those on the run should make sure you at
least get off the trail.
JMO
Chris
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Matt and James bring up some very interesting points.
>
> Matt stated "As a general rule, the trail boss takes
responsibility for
> ensuring everyone who starts a run, finishes the run." Of the
runs I
> do, I lead the run far more times than I follow someone else.
While I
> do have some feeling of responsibility when I am the leader, I am
not a
> hired guide. More often than not, I am the guy with the properly
loaded
> GPS and that usually prevents the group from taking too many wrong
turns
> (I'll NEVER say NO wrong turns!)....or, the other guy that was
going to
> lead the trail couldn't make it so I became the defacto trail boss
and
> we proceeded on. To push this responsibility issue onto the
shoulder of
> the guy in front may not exactly be the correct thing to do. On
the
> flip side of that coin, this fall, I will be providing the
services as a
> tail gunner and the folks on the trip are paying customers....and I
> certainly do have a responsibility to ensure they get off the
trail. (in
> fact...the documentation provided to the driver goes into great
detail
> and states that the person will get off the trail, but if they
trash
> their vehicle, it is ultimately the owner's responsibility to have
the
> vehicle removed from the trail) (note...do not confuse my previous
> statements with my saying I would leave someone on the trail if
they
> weren't paying).
>
> Also....as a "trail boss", I have seen individuals decide that
they no
> longer wanted to stay in the company of the group I was leading.
> So....what do we do there? How can the trail boss have a
responsibility
> to those on the run when some of those drivers won't act
responsibly?
> So....I suppose it is OK for them to tell you (the trail leader) to
> politely blow off but the trail leader doesn't have the same
options at
> his/her disposal? Now that makes for a one sided situation.
>
> I am not saying that Matt or James are right or wrong. I am just
saying
> I do believe there is more to the entire situation than what both
Matt
> and James said.
>
> Anyone else want to add to the discussion?
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
>
> >From: "Matt OBrien" <makaioo@y...>
> >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
> >Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:36:02 -0000
> >
> >I couldn't agree more that folks need to be prepared before
heading
> >offroad. Adequate spare parts, tools and knowledge of how to
> >use/replace/repair is essential. That said, there will always be
> >times when folks need help on the trail, including myself.
> >
> >As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility for
ensuring
> >everyone who starts a run, finishes the run. Personally, I'll
never
> >leave anyone on the trail with a broken rig unless I know they
have
> >the situation under control or assitance on the way. At the same
> >time, if certain individuals exhibit ineptitude time and again,
I'll
> >refuse to let them join subsequent runs which I lead.
> >
> >Matt
> >K7MTO
> >
> >--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
> >wrote:
> > > This is not directed at anyone in particular, it needs to be
said.
> > >
> > > If you are going to take your rig on a trail that could cause
> >possible
> > > damage to you rig, please have a working knowledge of how to
fix
> >it, some
> > > tools and/or the willingness to learn how to fix it, instead of
> >letting
> > > someone else fix it for you. In addition, if your rig has known
> >issues that
> > > possibly could affect it on the trail don't take it,
especially if
> >you don't
> > > have the parts or know how to fix it.
> > >
> > > Everyone is out to have a good time. If someone is working on
your
> >rig
> > > because you don't take care of your rig or you are
just "driving
> >it until it
> > > drops" they are not having a good time. So be respectful and
know
> >your, and
> > > your rig's, limitations. If I am with you and you have the
> >attitude I have
> > > warned against in this posting, I will, from now on, continue
> >without you.
> > > Don't be surprised.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
88637 From: Chris <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 5:10pm
Subject: Re: Damage on the trail
Not that I am aware of, something about the no dust clause causing
issues with stickers or something like that... :o)
Chris
--------------------------------------------------------------------
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Why....Joe isn't leading any trails, is he? LOL
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Krieg [mailto:rv6a@m...]
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 3:39 PM
> To: Stu Olson
> Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
>
> We need a Joe West disclaimer for this type of situation.
>
> On Monday, August 4, 2003, at 03:29 PM, Stu Olson wrote:
>
> > Matt and James bring up some very interesting points.
> >
> > Matt stated "As a general rule, the trail boss takes
responsibility
> for
> > ensuring everyone who starts a run, finishes the run." Of the
runs I
> > do, I lead the run far more times than I follow someone else.
While I
> > do have some feeling of responsibility when I am the leader, I
am not
> a
> > hired guide. More often than not, I am the guy with the
properly
> > loaded
> > GPS and that usually prevents the group from taking too many
wrong
> > turns
> > (I'll NEVER say NO wrong turns!)....or, the other guy that was
going
> to
> > lead the trail couldn't make it so I became the defacto trail
boss and
> > we proceeded on. To push this responsibility issue onto the
shoulder
> > of
> > the guy in front may not exactly be the correct thing to do. On
the
> > flip side of that coin, this fall, I will be providing the
services as
>
> > a
> > tail gunner and the folks on the trip are paying
customers....and I
> > certainly do have a responsibility to ensure they get off the
trail.
> > (in
> > fact...the documentation provided to the driver goes into great
detail
> > and states that the person will get off the trail, but if they
trash
> > their vehicle, it is ultimately the owner's responsibility to
have the
> > vehicle removed from the trail) (note...do not confuse my
previous
> > statements with my saying I would leave someone on the trail if
they
> > weren't paying).
> >
> > Also....as a "trail boss", I have seen individuals decide that
they no
> > longer wanted to stay in the company of the group I was leading.
> > So....what do we do there? How can the trail boss have a
> > responsibility
> > to those on the run when some of those drivers won't act
responsibly?
> > So....I suppose it is OK for them to tell you (the trail leader)
to
> > politely blow off but the trail leader doesn't have the same
options
> at
> > his/her disposal? Now that makes for a one sided situation.
> >
> > I am not saying that Matt or James are right or wrong. I am
just
> > saying
> > I do believe there is more to the entire situation than what
both Matt
> > and James said.
> >
> > Anyone else want to add to the discussion?
> >
> > Stu
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: "Matt OBrien" <makaioo@y...>
> >> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> >> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
> >> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:36:02 -0000
> >>
> >> I couldn't agree more that folks need to be prepared before
heading
> >> offroad. Adequate spare parts, tools and knowledge of how to
> >> use/replace/repair is essential. That said, there will always be
> >> times when folks need help on the trail, including myself.
> >>
> >> As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility for
ensuring
> >> everyone who starts a run, finishes the run. Personally, I'll
never
> >> leave anyone on the trail with a broken rig unless I know they
have
> >> the situation under control or assitance on the way. At the same
> >> time, if certain individuals exhibit ineptitude time and again,
I'll
> >> refuse to let them join subsequent runs which I lead.
> >>
> >> Matt
> >> K7MTO
> >>
> >> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
> >> wrote:
> >>> This is not directed at anyone in particular, it needs to be
said.
> >>>
> >>> If you are going to take your rig on a trail that could cause
> >> possible
> >>> damage to you rig, please have a working knowledge of how to
fix
> >> it, some
> >>> tools and/or the willingness to learn how to fix it, instead of
> >> letting
> >>> someone else fix it for you. In addition, if your rig has known
> >> issues that
> >>> possibly could affect it on the trail don't take it,
especially if
> >> you don't
> >>> have the parts or know how to fix it.
> >>>
> >>> Everyone is out to have a good time. If someone is working on
your
> >> rig
> >>> because you don't take care of your rig or you are
just "driving
> >> it until it
> >>> drops" they are not having a good time. So be respectful and
know
> >> your, and
> >>> your rig's, limitations. If I am with you and you have the
> >> attitude I have
> >>> warned against in this posting, I will, from now on, continue
> >> without you.
> >>> Don't be surprised.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>
> >>
> >
> > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
88638 From: Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 5:11pm
Subject: Re: Damage on the trail
It doesn't take an obstacle to cause a part failure. There are some
basic items/parts everyone should have in their trail kit, including
u-joints, belts, hoses, fluids, etc. No doubt down there water is #1
on the list. Here's a link to a basic list from our club site...
http://www.brushbuster.org/equipment.htm
There are other, more comprehensive lists around, but this should
provide a good starting point for anyone interested in putting
together a trail kit.
Matt
K7MTO
> I will say that I don't carry any spare parts but I also don't try
> to do anything that I would have to cross my fingers hoping to
make
> the obsticle over either...... :)
88639 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 5:19pm
Subject: RE: Re: Damage on the trail
Matt....thanks for posting that link. That is certainly a good reminder
for all of us.
(I still carry a stock TJ tie rod in case someone pretzels theirs on the
trail and then they will be eternally grateful for that little ol'
hollow tube I have zip tied up under the tub!)
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt OBrien [mailto:makaioo@y...]
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 5:11 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
It doesn't take an obstacle to cause a part failure. There are some
basic items/parts everyone should have in their trail kit, including
u-joints, belts, hoses, fluids, etc. No doubt down there water is #1
on the list. Here's a link to a basic list from our club site...
http://www.brushbuster.org/equipment.htm
There are other, more comprehensive lists around, but this should
provide a good starting point for anyone interested in putting
together a trail kit.
Matt
K7MTO
> I will say that I don't carry any spare parts but I also don't try
> to do anything that I would have to cross my fingers hoping to
make
> the obsticle over either...... :)
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
88640 From: Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 5:24pm
Subject: Re: Damage on the trail
And when I get there, I'll probably have a problem on my first AZ
trail run and not have what I need to fix it :)
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Matt....thanks for posting that link. That is certainly a good
reminder
> for all of us.
88641 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 6:29pm
Subject: RE: Trail Leader responsibilities was Re: Damage on the trail
I have lead a few runs myself. And been on runs with several different
leaders. Stu's got one of the best systems for leading a trail. I kinda
stole some of his tactics when I lead as well. Maybe you could jot some of
it down as a "trail leader guide" to give others an idea?
Frank
http://groups.msn.com/BadAzXJ
http://groups.msn.com/badazxj/arizonaundertakers.msnw
>From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
>Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 15:29:45 -0700
>
>Matt and James bring up some very interesting points.
>
>Matt stated "As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility for
>ensuring everyone who starts a run, finishes the run." Of the runs I
>do, I lead the run far more times than I follow someone else. While I
>do have some feeling of responsibility when I am the leader, I am not a
>hired guide. More often than not, I am the guy with the properly loaded
>GPS and that usually prevents the group from taking too many wrong turns
>(I'll NEVER say NO wrong turns!)....or, the other guy that was going to
>lead the trail couldn't make it so I became the defacto trail boss and
>we proceeded on. To push this responsibility issue onto the shoulder of
>the guy in front may not exactly be the correct thing to do. On the
>flip side of that coin, this fall, I will be providing the services as a
>tail gunner and the folks on the trip are paying customers....and I
>certainly do have a responsibility to ensure they get off the trail. (in
>fact...the documentation provided to the driver goes into great detail
>and states that the person will get off the trail, but if they trash
>their vehicle, it is ultimately the owner's responsibility to have the
>vehicle removed from the trail) (note...do not confuse my previous
>statements with my saying I would leave someone on the trail if they
>weren't paying).
>
>Also....as a "trail boss", I have seen individuals decide that they no
>longer wanted to stay in the company of the group I was leading.
>So....what do we do there? How can the trail boss have a responsibility
>to those on the run when some of those drivers won't act responsibly?
>So....I suppose it is OK for them to tell you (the trail leader) to
>politely blow off but the trail leader doesn't have the same options at
>his/her disposal? Now that makes for a one sided situation.
>
>I am not saying that Matt or James are right or wrong. I am just saying
>I do believe there is more to the entire situation than what both Matt
>and James said.
>
>Anyone else want to add to the discussion?
>
>Stu
>
>Stu Olson
>www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
>
> >From: "Matt OBrien" <makaioo@y...>
> >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
> >Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:36:02 -0000
> >
> >I couldn't agree more that folks need to be prepared before heading
> >offroad. Adequate spare parts, tools and knowledge of how to
> >use/replace/repair is essential. That said, there will always be
> >times when folks need help on the trail, including myself.
> >
> >As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility for ensuring
> >everyone who starts a run, finishes the run. Personally, I'll never
> >leave anyone on the trail with a broken rig unless I know they have
> >the situation under control or assitance on the way. At the same
> >time, if certain individuals exhibit ineptitude time and again, I'll
> >refuse to let them join subsequent runs which I lead.
> >
> >Matt
> >K7MTO
> >
> >--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
> >wrote:
> > > This is not directed at anyone in particular, it needs to be said.
> > >
> > > If you are going to take your rig on a trail that could cause
> >possible
> > > damage to you rig, please have a working knowledge of how to fix
> >it, some
> > > tools and/or the willingness to learn how to fix it, instead of
> >letting
> > > someone else fix it for you. In addition, if your rig has known
> >issues that
> > > possibly could affect it on the trail don't take it, especially if
> >you don't
> > > have the parts or know how to fix it.
> > >
> > > Everyone is out to have a good time. If someone is working on your
> >rig
> > > because you don't take care of your rig or you are just "driving
> >it until it
> > > drops" they are not having a good time. So be respectful and know
> >your, and
> > > your rig's, limitations. If I am with you and you have the
> >attitude I have
> > > warned against in this posting, I will, from now on, continue
> >without you.
> > > Don't be surprised.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>__________________________________________________ _______________
>The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________ _______________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
88642 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 6:49pm
Subject: RE: Trail Leader responsibilities was Re: Damage on the trail
Frank,
This probably doesn't cover everything it could, but I've had it on my
site for a while and I think it can most folks off to a good start.
There is always room for improvement....I'll be happy to entertain good
ideas.
http://www.stu-offroad.com/misc/etiquette.htm
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:badazxj@m...]
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 6:30 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; solson8@q...
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Trail Leader responsibilities was Re: Damage on
the trail
I have lead a few runs myself. And been on runs with several different
leaders. Stu's got one of the best systems for leading a trail. I kinda
stole some of his tactics when I lead as well. Maybe you could jot some
of
it down as a "trail leader guide" to give others an idea?
Frank
http://groups.msn.com/BadAzXJ
http://groups.msn.com/badazxj/arizonaundertakers.msnw
>From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
>Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 15:29:45 -0700
>
>Matt and James bring up some very interesting points.
>
>Matt stated "As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility for
>ensuring everyone who starts a run, finishes the run." Of the runs I
>do, I lead the run far more times than I follow someone else. While I
>do have some feeling of responsibility when I am the leader, I am not a
>hired guide. More often than not, I am the guy with the properly
loaded
>GPS and that usually prevents the group from taking too many wrong
turns
>(I'll NEVER say NO wrong turns!)....or, the other guy that was going to
>lead the trail couldn't make it so I became the defacto trail boss and
>we proceeded on. To push this responsibility issue onto the shoulder
of
>the guy in front may not exactly be the correct thing to do. On the
>flip side of that coin, this fall, I will be providing the services as
a
>tail gunner and the folks on the trip are paying customers....and I
>certainly do have a responsibility to ensure they get off the trail.
(in
>fact...the documentation provided to the driver goes into great detail
>and states that the person will get off the trail, but if they trash
>their vehicle, it is ultimately the owner's responsibility to have the
>vehicle removed from the trail) (note...do not confuse my previous
>statements with my saying I would leave someone on the trail if they
>weren't paying).
>
>Also....as a "trail boss", I have seen individuals decide that they no
>longer wanted to stay in the company of the group I was leading.
>So....what do we do there? How can the trail boss have a
responsibility
>to those on the run when some of those drivers won't act responsibly?
>So....I suppose it is OK for them to tell you (the trail leader) to
>politely blow off but the trail leader doesn't have the same options at
>his/her disposal? Now that makes for a one sided situation.
>
>I am not saying that Matt or James are right or wrong. I am just
saying
>I do believe there is more to the entire situation than what both Matt
>and James said.
>
>Anyone else want to add to the discussion?
>
>Stu
>
>Stu Olson
>www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
>
> >From: "Matt OBrien" <makaioo@y...>
> >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Damage on the trail
> >Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:36:02 -0000
> >
> >I couldn't agree more that folks need to be prepared before heading
> >offroad. Adequate spare parts, tools and knowledge of how to
> >use/replace/repair is essential. That said, there will always be
> >times when folks need help on the trail, including myself.
> >
> >As a general rule, the trail boss takes responsibility for ensuring
> >everyone who starts a run, finishes the run. Personally, I'll never
> >leave anyone on the trail with a broken rig unless I know they have
> >the situation under control or assitance on the way. At the same
> >time, if certain individuals exhibit ineptitude time and again, I'll
> >refuse to let them join subsequent runs which I lead.
> >
> >Matt
> >K7MTO
> >
> >--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "James Towle" <James.Towle@a...>
> >wrote:
> > > This is not directed at anyone in particular, it needs to be said.
> > >
> > > If you are going to take your rig on a trail that could cause
> >possible
> > > damage to you rig, please have a working knowledge of how to fix
> >it, some
> > > tools and/or the willingness to learn how to fix it, instead of
> >letting
> > > someone else fix it for you. In addition, if your rig has known
> >issues that
> > > possibly could affect it on the trail don't take it, especially if
> >you don't
> > > have the parts or know how to fix it.
> > >
> > > Everyone is out to have a good time. If someone is working on your
> >rig
> > > because you don't take care of your rig or you are just "driving
> >it until it
> > > drops" they are not having a good time. So be respectful and know
> >your, and
> > > your rig's, limitations. If I am with you and you have the
> >attitude I have
> > > warned against in this posting, I will, from now on, continue
> >without you.
> > > Don't be surprised.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>__________________________________________________ _______________
>The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________ _______________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
88643 From: <dzrtoffroad@a...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 3:05pm
Subject: Re: Trail Leader responsibilities was Re: Damage on the trail
ok, i can chime in now too???????
what the heck...........
"trail boss" sounds like i'm herding cattle :)
i have wheeled with many and some come out with a rig that they know is
already skating on thin ice mechanically. these guys then fall into four
catagories:
1. they have tools and know how to fix their ****- i can handle them :)
2. they know how to fix but have no tools- BUMMER
3. they have tools but don't know how to fix- NOT TOO BAD
4. they have no tools and don't know how to fix either- TOTAL BUMMER
you learn the hard way to shy away from the guys that cause you a lot of time
and work to get through the trail.
then there are those that come best prepared as reasonably possible-tools and
parts. you can only carry so much. then the "buddy system" comes into play
when tools and parts that the guy doesn't have start showing up from all
directions!
RULE OF THUMB:
if you fall into the catagory 2 or 4 above......you may find yourself without
any wheelin buds after a few trips :)
if you can't play with the big boys, stay on the porch??????????????
AMEN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88644 From: Marty <robatari@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 7:10pm
Subject: Help need tj steering knuckle
Would any one know where I could find a steering knuckle For a 98
tj,pasenger side,d30.The lower caliper bolt hole is stripped on
mine.
88645 From: jetowle2000 <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 7:24pm
Subject: Re: Damage on the trail
Like I said, this isn't directed at anyone in particular.
I 'think' there is a problem that I haven't seen before now. That
is, people can go out and buy almost any rig or have a number of
different companies modify their rig. Then these people don't
maintain their rig, they don't know what they have and if they did
know what they have they don't know how to fix it if it breaks. Who
does that leave to fix their rig when it breaks?
As for me, I hate letting other people working on my junk. I don't
set gears though, leave that to the professionals. I, like Nick,
have not gone wheeling a few times because maintenence had to be
done first.
This is a question about trail leaders, that might be considered, if
you were looking at from my point of view; I have a bad back (hell,
sometimes I can't do what needs to be done on my junk), but if
someone breaks down that doesn't know how to fix their rig and they
are expecting me to do it and my back is acting up. They might be in
trouble no matter what the situation is.
Do not get me wrong, breaking is part of the game and I don't mind
helping. A bunch of you know this.
Three things:
Don't sit on the sideline and watch someone fix your rig.
Anticipate breaks, do maintenence.
Be prepared (the old Boy Scout thing), as you can be. Something is
going to break, it's just a matter of time.
--James
Oh yeah, have fun...
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...> wrote:
> 2 lessons to learn from this
>
> 1) Don't go unprepared
>
> 2) Don't assume someone else will be to get your sorry butt out of
the
> hole it is in.
>
> Thanks James, what you said needed to be said.
>
> So give us the skinny on what happened. You can delete all names
if
> necessary.
>
> :-)
>
> Chris
>
> On Monday, August 4, 2003, at 12:01 PM, James Towle wrote:
>
> > This is not directed at anyone in particular, it needs to be
said.
> >
> > If you are going to take your rig on a trail that could cause
possible
> > damage to you rig, please have a working knowledge of how to fix
it,
> > some
> > tools and/or the willingness to learn how to fix it, instead of
letting
> > someone else fix it for you. In addition, if your rig has known
issues
> > that
> > possibly could affect it on the trail don't take it, especially
if you
> > don't
> > have the parts or know how to fix it.
> >
> > Everyone is out to have a good time. If someone is working on
your rig
> > because you don't take care of your rig or you are just "driving
it
> > until it
> > drops" they are not having a good time. So be respectful and
know
> > your, and
> > your rig's, limitations. If I am with you and you have the
attitude I
> > have
> > warned against in this posting, I will, from now on, continue
without
> > you.
> > Don't be surprised.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > --James
> >
> > The proceeding message was not intended to be "politically
correct" in
> > any
> > way and was intended to bring home a point.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
88646 From: <dzrtoffroad@a...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 3:29pm
Subject: Re: Re: Damage on the trail
In a message dated 8/4/03 7:25:10 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
James.Towle@a... writes:
> Don't sit on the sideline and watch someone fix your rig.
>
THIS WOULD BE *** KICKIN TIME :)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88647 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 7:33pm
Subject: RE: Help need tj steering knuckle
Marty,
Have you considered using a Heli-Coil kit? You drill and tap the
stripped hole to a larger size and then thread in an insert that
restores it to the correct size.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Marty [mailto:robatari@y...]
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 7:11 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Help need tj steering knuckle
Would any one know where I could find a steering knuckle For a 98
tj,pasenger side,d30.The lower caliper bolt hole is stripped on
mine.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
88648 From: <febu15@a...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 3:34pm
Subject: Re: Trail Leader responsibilities was Re: Damage on the trail
Hello all... I have to agree with Steve... He said it
right...hopefully most of the folks that wheel have enough smarts to know there
Jeep... I don't think anyone should ever be left on the trail no matter what....
Its no different than the guys that ( and you know who you are ) never help
with anything, or anyone on a run,, just sit in the A.C and watch others... that
when they need help,, thats different...
How many out of 1700 people really wheel anyway... is it a
big problem that I haven't seen yet?? It seems like most all the people help
out,,, and are more than willing to help out.... and lend a tool that others may
not have....
The biggest thing I have to say is IF YOU START AS A GROUP ,
YOU SHOULD END AS A GROUP...if you don't like people or someone on the
run,,,don't go with them again...Just have fun!!! and hope like h*ll your ujoints
hold them big tires...
Paul CJ76
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88649 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 7:36pm
Subject: RE: Help need tj steering knuckle
In case you want a head start on it, try
http://www.helicoil.com/
for some more information.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 7:33 PM
To: 'Marty'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Help need tj steering knuckle
Marty,
Have you considered using a Heli-Coil kit? You drill and tap the
stripped hole to a larger size and then thread in an insert that
restores it to the correct size.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Marty [mailto:robatari@y...]
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 7:11 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Help need tj steering knuckle
Would any one know where I could find a steering knuckle For a 98
tj,pasenger side,d30.The lower caliper bolt hole is stripped on
mine.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
88650 From: Mike & Karen Acuna <mkacuna@c...>
Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 7:36pm
Subject: cool camping gadget
http://www.campfireinacan.com/home_page2.htm
Mike
98 ZJ
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]