blooddrive
01-08-2004, 09:03 PM
88351-88375
88351 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 5:01pm
Subject: Coconino drops restrictions also
http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/coconino/news.shtml
Jim F.
"I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member" Groucho
Marx
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
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88352 From: Casper <casper@c...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 3:27pm
Subject: Flexin' Rocks!
Here you go. Now these are Flexin' Rocks. These are actually my front yard. Take a look. Darn, think my jeep with a strap could move mine around?
http://www.cybertrails.com/~casper
go to the XJ page and page down to the 4 pictures. Click on a picture for a larger image.
Casper
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88353 From: <rmgonzo02@a...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:36pm
Subject: roll bar needed
i have a 89 yj that i need a roll bar for. i want to get one from a 92 or
newer. if you have one or maybe know where i can get one for a good price email
me rmgonzo02@a....
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88354 From: Mike & Karen Acuna <mkacuna@c...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 6:00pm
Subject: Re: Coconino drops restrictions also
What about the Crown King area?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
To: "RockRats@yahoogroups. Com" <RockRats@yahoogroups.com>; "AZundertakers"
<AZundertakers@yahoogroups.com>; "Az_Vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 5:01 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Coconino drops restrictions also
> http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/coconino/news.shtml
> Jim F.
>
> "I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member" Groucho
> Marx
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
88355 From: Bill Hooven <whooven@c...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 6:19pm
Subject: Re: roll bar needed
> AMC 4x4
> http://vanity.qwestdex.com/amc4x4salvage/Page1.html
> (623) 937-5899
you might also try:
> Arizona Trailwerks
> http://www.aztrailwerks.com/pages/1/index.htm
> 602-254-1551
I think prices range from $200-$350
----- Original Message -----
From: <rmgonzo02@a...>
To: <azvjc@a...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 5:36 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] roll bar needed
> i have a 89 yj that i need a roll bar for. i want to get one from a 92 or
> newer. if you have one or maybe know where i can get one for a good price
email
> me rmgonzo02@a....
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
88356 From: Mike H. <hiett710@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 6:14pm
Subject: Re: My flexin' rock
I'm not sure but I think I could drive right over that rock.
Mike H.
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "James Rogers" <skijunkie@c...> wrote:
> http://members.cox.net/topjimmy/jeep/DCP_1143
> http://members.cox.net/topjimmy/jeep/DCP_1146
> http://members.cox.net/topjimmy/jeep/DCP_1149
>
> I got a flexin' rock for my front yard. It weighs over a ton
(literally),
> however it felt like more. The real mother was that after they
dropped it
> where I told them to and left, I decided I wanted it facing the
other
> direction. Oh well, nothing a Jeep and a tow strap can't fix,
right? The
> immovable object vs. the TJ. The TJ won, I got it right where I
wanted it.
> So if any west siders need to test their flex and can't find a
ramp, drop by
> and test out my big rock.
>
> (BTW, with my low riding baby tired little TJ, I can only get up it
on the
> corner. I'll be happy when I get my lift and tires and can walk
right up
> the high part.)
88357 From: <trmn8rjn98@a...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 2:23pm
Subject: Fwd: I need a stock TJ/ZJ front trac bar
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88358 From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
Date: Mon Jul 28, 2003 6:31pm
Subject: Re: Re: CLUNK!! Fixed
Ah, I didn' know that after-market motor mounts were available. Since
my goal in life is to replace every Chrysler part on my jeep with something
that is not Chrysler or never touched by Chrysler, I will look into these.
Thanks for the tip! =)
Tony
--
I love my jeep but I hate Chrysler!
Scott Maiden wrote:
>And you have yet to try something else? I think after the second set
>Id be looking for a better alternative :p Im running M.O.R.E.'s
>1"lift bombproof motormounts with no problems for 2 years of hard
>wheelin now, just an idea ;)
>
>Scott Maiden
>
>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "intertwingled" <intertwingled@q...>
>wrote:
>
>
>>I've had to replace the engine mounts on my 94 YJ three times and
>>
>>
>counting.
>
>
>>What the hell does Chrysler make their engine mounts out of?
>>
>>
>Recycled
>
>
>>aluminum?
>>Oddly enough, my transmission mount has never been replaced and is
>>
>>
>still
>
>
>>in good shape.
>>
>>Tony
>>
>>S.R.D. wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>It turns out that Lon was right about the clunk culprit!! The
>>>passenger side engine mount bolts sheared off where the mount was
>>>connected to the engine. I had only looked at the bolts where it
>>>mounts to the frame. Moore drilled and extracted the three bolts,
>>>replaced the, replaced the fan, fan clutch, fan shroud, and
>>>serpentine belt. YAY Moore!!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>>
>>>
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
88359 From: <offroadsundevil5@a...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 2:47pm
Subject: FLORENCE THURSDAY!!!
Fellow Wheelers,
James Towle and I will be running upper and lower woodpecker this thursday,
anyone else out there who's free come out and join us, I think Andrew and Tom
Deeren will be out there also.
Erik Vasquez
91 YJ
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88360 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 6:47pm
Subject: RE: Coconino drops restrictions also
Prescott Also dropped most restrictions
http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/prescott/
"I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member" Groucho
Marx
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike & Karen Acuna [mailto:mkacuna@c...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 6:00 PM
To: RockRats@yahoogroups. Com; AZundertakers; Az_Vjc; Hackle
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Coconino drops restrictions also
What about the Crown King area?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
To: "RockRats@yahoogroups. Com" <RockRats@yahoogroups.com>; "AZundertakers"
<AZundertakers@yahoogroups.com>; "Az_Vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 5:01 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Coconino drops restrictions also
> http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/coconino/news.shtml
> Jim F.
>
> "I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member" Groucho
> Marx
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
88361 From: b h <xjnation@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 6:51pm
Subject: NEEDED QUICK! XJ DANA 30 HOUSING WITH 3.54 GEARS....BEFORE WEEKEND!
Hey all,
Im hoping someone has a good dana 30 housing with 3.55
gears HP for an 88 XJ...with vac disco...Im helping
someonw who has bent the front housing in an accident
and needs the jeep runnig before monday...what you
guys got?
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88362 From: b h <xjnation@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 6:58pm
Subject: NEEDED QUICK! XJ DANA 30 HOUSING WITH 3.54 GEARS....BEFORE WEEKEND!
Hey all,
Im hoping someone has a good dana 30 housing with 3.55
gears HP for an 88 XJ...with vac disco...Im helping
someonw who has bent the front housing in an accident
and needs the jeep runnig before monday...what you
guys got?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
88363 From: dbkcs <dbkcs@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 7:04pm
Subject: Re: roll bar needed
Uh you mean sportbar :) right
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, rmgonzo02@a... wrote:
> i have a 89 yj that i need a roll bar for. i want to get one from
a 92 or
> newer. if you have one or maybe know where i can get one for a
good price email
> me rmgonzo02@a...
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88364 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 7:59pm
Subject: Re: Re: Anyone wanna guess
Oops. In the case of a rear axle, the J-arms go to the back of the axle
tube. I had front axle on my brain.
On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 07:20 AM, Chris Krieg wrote:
> Not exactly correct. Yes, the J-arms do go under the axle, but I
> believe the still offer more clearance than the tock control arm
> brackets.
>
> Chris
>
> On Sunday, July 27, 2003, at 05:30 PM, Scott Maiden wrote:
>
>> No disadvantages,? like arms running under the axle like rock
>> anchors?? ;p
>>
>> Scott Maiden
>>
>> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "FredTJ" <fredtj@c...> wrote:
>>> Yes sir !!!
>>> I'me also doing the lower j-arms in the front and will be running a
>> single,
>>> longer upper control arm in the front.
>>> The j-arms are around 8" longer than stock control arms, so this
>> makes it a
>>> "medium" arm kit, as opposed to a long arm kit.
>>> It provides all the advantages of a LA with none of the
>> disadvantages ;)
>>>
>>>
>>> :)
>>> Fred
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Rio Harbour" <rioshilo@c...>
>>> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 11:32 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Anyone wanna guess
>>>
>>>
>>>> Recessed rear shock mounts into the outside of the frame with
>> lower J arms
>>>> for the rear.... Did I win?
>>>>
>>>> Rio
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "FredTJ" <fredtj@c...>
>>>> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 8:54 AM
>>>> Subject: [az_vjc] Anyone wanna guess
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What I'm gettting ready to do ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.fredtj.com/images/photos/table/Parts1.JPG
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.fredtj.com/images/photos/table/Parts2.JPG
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> :)
>>>>> Fred
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
88365 From: David Cole <lists@o...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:07pm
Subject: Rain and more rain
Gilbert is currently getting a good drenching.
David
88366 From: flatfenderman2000 <cnd4ever@g...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:06pm
Subject: FJ Area rain!
Ye-Haw!! As I type this message I can see the Box Canyon area be
pounded with a Thunderstorm! I wish there would be enough to flood
and remove all the rock stacking from our favorite trails!
Chris L.
44 Willys Buggy,
Flornece Local
88367 From: Wade Ungaro <swaders7@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:09pm
Subject: Re: Rain and more rain
Yessirreee!!! We are getting clobbered here at work! Sounds like the walls are gonna cave in!
~Wade
David Cole <lists@o...> wrote:
Gilbert is currently getting a good drenching.
David
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88368 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:22pm
Subject: Re: advantages/disadvantages? [was Re: Anyone wanna guess]
You are only partially correct about J-arms. They are not short arms
and they run at less angle than short arms. The ones Fred will be using
are 8" longer (I believe) than stock arms. This will allow them to flex
straighter up and down like a longarm kit. They also reduce the angle
of the control arm. Don't look at the arm itself for the angle. You
must look at the relative angle between the arm mounting points, not
the arm tubing itself. Since the J-arms mount at the midpoint of the
rear of the axle (on a rear application), the mounting point is much
higher than a stock setup. This effectively decreases the arm angle and
makes them handle much better on the road and flex better off. The
tires will not swing forward as much as a short arm.
You will have more clearance so you don't have to drag them over the
rocks. Trim up those upper control arm mounts and you gain even more
room. As has been said before, the FireAnt uses them in the stock frame
mounts and they don't seem to need to use the arms to get themselves
over the obstacles. See the rear suspension pics on this page:
http://www.extreme4x4.com/Fireant/page4.html
Stock mounts and the same arms Fred is using. Seems to work great for
them. You can also triangulate the rear just like they did so that is a
moot point.
By the way, what do you base your 4" of suspension or less comment?
Many people run 4"+ lifts on short arms. There is no reason why you
can't run a medium length arm like the J-arms, with bigger lifts.
This is not a flame. I'm just pointing out a few inaccuracies about the
J-arms.
Chris
On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 11:12 AM, Mike wrote:
> As for the J arms, The only advantages that I see (someone correct
> me if I'm missing something) are more control of the axle due to the
> mounting point being around the back of the axle. The extra length
> is only because it has to wrap around. It also has jonnie joints at
> both ends for more articulation. For a long arm kit, I see many
> advantages. With a tall lift, it soaks up the bumps MUCH better than
> short arms because the angle of the arm is less severe since its
> frame mounting point is moved back. Also with the added length, it
> can articulate alot further with far less stress on the arms, axle
> and all the components since the "arc" of movement is alot larger.
> Most long arm kits mount to the frame up above the skid plate so
> there is no (or very little) interference to cause hang ups. The
> arms can actually slide along a rock and help get you over an
> obstacle with less stress on axle components since the tire is
> hitting the rock below 90 deg. to the rock. If triangulating the
> long arms, you get added benefiets of losing your track bar and
> allowing for articulation in both directions to be the same. I think
> that the most obvious benefiets that someone will see of the long
> arms is if you are over 6" of lift and feel bumps on the road. With
> short arms you can actually feel and see the axle pushing back into
> the arm and frame. With a long arm, your angle is far less severe
> and it absorbs the bumps MUCH softer. With that and the larger arc,
> you have alot less wear on bushings, joints, and axle parts. The J
> arms are great for lifts that are 4" or less, but I don't see them
> working nearly as well with taller Jeeps. Can anyone show me that
> they work for taller lifts?
>
> Mike Anderson
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Linda" <minihummer@w...> wrote:
>> Mike,
>>
>> What do you consider the advantages and disadvantages of the J-arms
>> (medium length control arms) and long-arms?
>>
>> I almost converted my old ZJ to a long-arm setup but backed off
> after
>> examining the design/fab/materials/maintenance costs versus what I
>> would get out it. Then I sold the Jeep :-(
>>
>> Linda
>> 54 wagon - old tech being refreshed
>>
>> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <msa12171@a...> wrote:
>>> The J arms DO offer some advantages that long arms have, not ALL,
>> and
>>> they DO have disadvantages. I'll stick with my long arms, I like
>> the
>>> advantages that they offer.
>>>
>>> Mike Anderson
>>>
>>> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "FredTJ" <fredtj@c...> wrote:
>>>> Yes sir !!!
>>>> I'me also doing the lower j-arms in the front and will be
> running
>> a
>>> single,
>>>> longer upper control arm in the front.
>>>> The j-arms are around 8" longer than stock control arms, so
> this
>>> makes it a
>>>> "medium" arm kit, as opposed to a long arm kit.
>>>> It provides all the advantages of a LA with none of the
>>> disadvantages ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> :)
>>>> Fred
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Rio Harbour" <rioshilo@c...>
>>>> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 11:32 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Anyone wanna guess
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Recessed rear shock mounts into the outside of the frame with
>>> lower J arms
>>>>> for the rear.... Did I win?
>>>>>
>>>>> Rio
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "FredTJ" <fredtj@c...>
>>>>> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 8:54 AM
>>>>> Subject: [az_vjc] Anyone wanna guess
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I'm gettting ready to do ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.fredtj.com/images/photos/table/Parts1.JPG
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.fredtj.com/images/photos/table/Parts2.JPG
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> :)
>>>>>> Fred
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
88369 From: thebiggzimm <zimmermansjn@m...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:35pm
Subject: rain
its raining in Casa Grande
88370 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:40pm
Subject: Re: Flexin' Rocks!
see thats what I am talkin about! you arent playin any games over there.
I need a few of those on my property..... :)
Frank
http://groups.msn.com/BadAzXJ
http://groups.msn.com/badazxj/arizonaundertakers.msnw
>From: "Casper" <casper@c...>
>Reply-To: "Casper" <casper@c...>
>To: "AZVJC" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [az_vjc] Flexin' Rocks!
>Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:27:23 -0500
>
>Here you go. Now these are Flexin' Rocks. These are actually my front yard.
>Take a look. Darn, think my jeep with a strap could move mine around?
>http://www.cybertrails.com/~casper
>go to the XJ page and page down to the 4 pictures. Click on a picture for a
>larger image.
>
>Casper
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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88371 From: yzguyone25 <YZGUYONE25@m...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:22pm
Subject: the beauty of rain!
Pouring down rain in Avondale!!! Can't wait to play in the mud.
Unfortunately it's gonna be messy in the TJ with no top and only a
set of soft half doors! : ) Oh well!
Justin Olson
88372 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:35pm
Subject: RE: FLORENCE THURSDAY!!!
I envy you guys. If I could be there I would. I have to be in Las Vegas
Wed - Fri. :(
Be carefull the trail should be pretty intresting with all the rain.
Joey K
http://www.desertjeep.com
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: offroadsundevil5@a... [mailto:offroadsundevil5@a...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 6:47 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; AZundertakers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] FLORENCE THURSDAY!!!
Fellow Wheelers,
James Towle and I will be running upper and lower woodpecker this
thursday,
anyone else out there who's free come out and join us, I think Andrew
and Tom
Deeren will be out there also.
Erik Vasquez
91 YJ
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
88373 From: Keith <khaw@n...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:53pm
Subject: Motor cutting out.
I hope I can explain this. While driving around it seems like the motor
cuts out. Almost like you switch it off and back on real quick.
It also does it sometimes when you let off the gas and then step on it
again. Sometimes it even does it when you take off from a stop. This
just started. It has a fairly new TPS and MAP. Any ideas?
Thanks
Keith
Guess I should add it's a 87 4.0/AW4
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88374 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 10:10pm
Subject: Re: advantages/disadvantages? [was Re: Anyone wanna guess]
Chris, thanks for thf explanation e-mail. It's perfect !
I was going to write, basically the same, but lost interest trying to
explain.
I was going to wait until I got both ends done, then post up some photos.
You're absolutely right in your assumptions below. You understand link
suspension ;)
What some people may not understand, is that the effective length of a
control arm is the length from mounting point to mounting point, pretty much
irrespective of "where" the arm mounts.
The Currie j-arms are ca 50%+ longer than stock arms, which makes them "long
arms".. We like to call them "medium arms" as they are shorter then most, if
not all, of the commercial "long arm" kits. But the fact is still that they
are considerably longer than stock.
Also, as you clearly mentioned below, and what some people don't understand,
is that the angle of the arm has nothing to do with it's shape. It can be a
double "s" shape, doesn't matter.. The angle is the angle of a piece of
string, pulled tight, that intersects the center of the mounting points on
both end of the arms..
People have the same problem with track bars, trying to get them parallel to
the drag link.. They think that if they bend 'em into all sorts of weird "s"
's and stuff the the angle changes. It doesn't. The angle is the angle of a
piece of string pulled tight and intersect the mounting bolt on both ends.
Doesn't matter if the track bar wraps around the Jeep and over the top ;)
Anyway, regarding the j-arms. I haven't measure exactly yet, but, as you've
mentioned (correctly again :) ), the axle mounting point is ca the mid line
of the axle, and with a quick look it appears that it's 4" or so higher than
the stock moutns.. That's a lot, and makes for a much better angle.
You're also correct on the amount of lift.. Not quite sure where the 4" came
from ;)
I know of two Jeeps in CA running this setup.. Blaine Johnson did 'em both,
and thinks that Kims Jeep is the best handling Jeep that he's ever
driven.....
Anyway, I didn't want to try to get into this much explanation. You did a
fantastic job with it !!
I'll post photos and all, as I progress with this project.
The rear will be done first, probably starting this weekend, cutting and
welding in the Ford shock towers for the shock relocation, and then probably
the following weekend, to cut off the stock ca mounts and weld the new
j-arms mounts and axle shock mounts up and install the new j-arms.. BTW, I'm
already triangulated in the rear, whoever asked about that.
The front will be a month or so down the road.. I need to wait until I find
a HP30, and then re-gear it, and get the Warn kit installed in it.
Best,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Krieg" <rv6a@c...>
To: "Mike" <msa12171@a...>
Cc: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] advantages/disadvantages? [was Re: Anyone wanna guess]
> You are only partially correct about J-arms. They are not short arms
> and they run at less angle than short arms. The ones Fred will be using
> are 8" longer (I believe) than stock arms. This will allow them to flex
> straighter up and down like a longarm kit. They also reduce the angle
> of the control arm. Don't look at the arm itself for the angle. You
> must look at the relative angle between the arm mounting points, not
> the arm tubing itself. Since the J-arms mount at the midpoint of the
> rear of the axle (on a rear application), the mounting point is much
> higher than a stock setup. This effectively decreases the arm angle and
> makes them handle much better on the road and flex better off. The
> tires will not swing forward as much as a short arm.
> You will have more clearance so you don't have to drag them over the
> rocks. Trim up those upper control arm mounts and you gain even more
> room. As has been said before, the FireAnt uses them in the stock frame
> mounts and they don't seem to need to use the arms to get themselves
> over the obstacles. See the rear suspension pics on this page:
>
> http://www.extreme4x4.com/Fireant/page4.html
>
> Stock mounts and the same arms Fred is using. Seems to work great for
> them. You can also triangulate the rear just like they did so that is a
> moot point.
>
> By the way, what do you base your 4" of suspension or less comment?
> Many people run 4"+ lifts on short arms. There is no reason why you
> can't run a medium length arm like the J-arms, with bigger lifts.
>
> This is not a flame. I'm just pointing out a few inaccuracies about the
> J-arms.
>
> Chris
>
> On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 11:12 AM, Mike wrote:
>
> > As for the J arms, The only advantages that I see (someone correct
> > me if I'm missing something) are more control of the axle due to the
> > mounting point being around the back of the axle. The extra length
> > is only because it has to wrap around. It also has jonnie joints at
> > both ends for more articulation. For a long arm kit, I see many
> > advantages. With a tall lift, it soaks up the bumps MUCH better than
> > short arms because the angle of the arm is less severe since its
> > frame mounting point is moved back. Also with the added length, it
> > can articulate alot further with far less stress on the arms, axle
> > and all the components since the "arc" of movement is alot larger.
> > Most long arm kits mount to the frame up above the skid plate so
> > there is no (or very little) interference to cause hang ups. The
> > arms can actually slide along a rock and help get you over an
> > obstacle with less stress on axle components since the tire is
> > hitting the rock below 90 deg. to the rock. If triangulating the
> > long arms, you get added benefiets of losing your track bar and
> > allowing for articulation in both directions to be the same. I think
> > that the most obvious benefiets that someone will see of the long
> > arms is if you are over 6" of lift and feel bumps on the road. With
> > short arms you can actually feel and see the axle pushing back into
> > the arm and frame. With a long arm, your angle is far less severe
> > and it absorbs the bumps MUCH softer. With that and the larger arc,
> > you have alot less wear on bushings, joints, and axle parts. The J
> > arms are great for lifts that are 4" or less, but I don't see them
> > working nearly as well with taller Jeeps. Can anyone show me that
> > they work for taller lifts?
> >
> > Mike Anderson
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Linda" <minihummer@w...> wrote:
> >> Mike,
> >>
> >> What do you consider the advantages and disadvantages of the J-arms
> >> (medium length control arms) and long-arms?
> >>
> >> I almost converted my old ZJ to a long-arm setup but backed off
> > after
> >> examining the design/fab/materials/maintenance costs versus what I
> >> would get out it. Then I sold the Jeep :-(
> >>
> >> Linda
> >> 54 wagon - old tech being refreshed
> >>
> >> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <msa12171@a...> wrote:
> >>> The J arms DO offer some advantages that long arms have, not ALL,
> >> and
> >>> they DO have disadvantages. I'll stick with my long arms, I like
> >> the
> >>> advantages that they offer.
> >>>
> >>> Mike Anderson
> >>>
> >>> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "FredTJ" <fredtj@c...> wrote:
> >>>> Yes sir !!!
> >>>> I'me also doing the lower j-arms in the front and will be
> > running
> >> a
> >>> single,
> >>>> longer upper control arm in the front.
> >>>> The j-arms are around 8" longer than stock control arms, so
> > this
> >>> makes it a
> >>>> "medium" arm kit, as opposed to a long arm kit.
> >>>> It provides all the advantages of a LA with none of the
> >>> disadvantages ;)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> :)
> >>>> Fred
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Rio Harbour" <rioshilo@c...>
> >>>> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> >>>> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 11:32 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Anyone wanna guess
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Recessed rear shock mounts into the outside of the frame with
> >>> lower J arms
> >>>>> for the rear.... Did I win?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Rio
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "FredTJ" <fredtj@c...>
> >>>>> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 8:54 AM
> >>>>> Subject: [az_vjc] Anyone wanna guess
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What I'm gettting ready to do ;)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.fredtj.com/images/photos/table/Parts1.JPG
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.fredtj.com/images/photos/table/Parts2.JPG
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> :)
> >>>>>> Fred
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
88375 From: Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:56pm
Subject: Re: the beauty of rain!
Man, you guys *really* need to take a trip up here to Oregon this
winter. After a few straight weeks of rain and overcast skies with
the occasional 10 minute "sun breaks", you won't be so excited when
the clouds roll in.
Seriously, I hear your occasional storms are like we had back east -
pouring hard with flash floods, lighting and thunder. Up here it
just a constant drizzle from October until May. Can't wait to get
there be lightning bait again.
Matt
K7MTO
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "yzguyone25" <YZGUYONE25@m...> wrote:
> Pouring down rain in Avondale!!! Can't wait to play in the mud.
> Unfortunately it's gonna be messy in the TJ with no top and only a
> set of soft half doors! : ) Oh well!
88351 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 5:01pm
Subject: Coconino drops restrictions also
http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/coconino/news.shtml
Jim F.
"I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member" Groucho
Marx
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
88352 From: Casper <casper@c...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 3:27pm
Subject: Flexin' Rocks!
Here you go. Now these are Flexin' Rocks. These are actually my front yard. Take a look. Darn, think my jeep with a strap could move mine around?
http://www.cybertrails.com/~casper
go to the XJ page and page down to the 4 pictures. Click on a picture for a larger image.
Casper
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88353 From: <rmgonzo02@a...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:36pm
Subject: roll bar needed
i have a 89 yj that i need a roll bar for. i want to get one from a 92 or
newer. if you have one or maybe know where i can get one for a good price email
me rmgonzo02@a....
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88354 From: Mike & Karen Acuna <mkacuna@c...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 6:00pm
Subject: Re: Coconino drops restrictions also
What about the Crown King area?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
To: "RockRats@yahoogroups. Com" <RockRats@yahoogroups.com>; "AZundertakers"
<AZundertakers@yahoogroups.com>; "Az_Vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 5:01 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Coconino drops restrictions also
> http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/coconino/news.shtml
> Jim F.
>
> "I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member" Groucho
> Marx
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
88355 From: Bill Hooven <whooven@c...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 6:19pm
Subject: Re: roll bar needed
> AMC 4x4
> http://vanity.qwestdex.com/amc4x4salvage/Page1.html
> (623) 937-5899
you might also try:
> Arizona Trailwerks
> http://www.aztrailwerks.com/pages/1/index.htm
> 602-254-1551
I think prices range from $200-$350
----- Original Message -----
From: <rmgonzo02@a...>
To: <azvjc@a...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 5:36 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] roll bar needed
> i have a 89 yj that i need a roll bar for. i want to get one from a 92 or
> newer. if you have one or maybe know where i can get one for a good price
> me rmgonzo02@a....
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
88356 From: Mike H. <hiett710@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 6:14pm
Subject: Re: My flexin' rock
I'm not sure but I think I could drive right over that rock.
Mike H.
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "James Rogers" <skijunkie@c...> wrote:
> http://members.cox.net/topjimmy/jeep/DCP_1143
> http://members.cox.net/topjimmy/jeep/DCP_1146
> http://members.cox.net/topjimmy/jeep/DCP_1149
>
> I got a flexin' rock for my front yard. It weighs over a ton
(literally),
> however it felt like more. The real mother was that after they
dropped it
> where I told them to and left, I decided I wanted it facing the
other
> direction. Oh well, nothing a Jeep and a tow strap can't fix,
right? The
> immovable object vs. the TJ. The TJ won, I got it right where I
wanted it.
> So if any west siders need to test their flex and can't find a
ramp, drop by
> and test out my big rock.
>
> (BTW, with my low riding baby tired little TJ, I can only get up it
on the
> corner. I'll be happy when I get my lift and tires and can walk
right up
> the high part.)
88357 From: <trmn8rjn98@a...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 2:23pm
Subject: Fwd: I need a stock TJ/ZJ front trac bar
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88358 From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
Date: Mon Jul 28, 2003 6:31pm
Subject: Re: Re: CLUNK!! Fixed
Ah, I didn' know that after-market motor mounts were available. Since
my goal in life is to replace every Chrysler part on my jeep with something
that is not Chrysler or never touched by Chrysler, I will look into these.
Thanks for the tip! =)
Tony
--
I love my jeep but I hate Chrysler!
Scott Maiden wrote:
>And you have yet to try something else? I think after the second set
>Id be looking for a better alternative :p Im running M.O.R.E.'s
>1"lift bombproof motormounts with no problems for 2 years of hard
>wheelin now, just an idea ;)
>
>Scott Maiden
>
>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "intertwingled" <intertwingled@q...>
>wrote:
>
>
>>I've had to replace the engine mounts on my 94 YJ three times and
>>
>>
>counting.
>
>
>>What the hell does Chrysler make their engine mounts out of?
>>
>>
>Recycled
>
>
>>aluminum?
>>Oddly enough, my transmission mount has never been replaced and is
>>
>>
>still
>
>
>>in good shape.
>>
>>Tony
>>
>>S.R.D. wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>It turns out that Lon was right about the clunk culprit!! The
>>>passenger side engine mount bolts sheared off where the mount was
>>>connected to the engine. I had only looked at the bolts where it
>>>mounts to the frame. Moore drilled and extracted the three bolts,
>>>replaced the, replaced the fan, fan clutch, fan shroud, and
>>>serpentine belt. YAY Moore!!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>>
>>>
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
88359 From: <offroadsundevil5@a...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 2:47pm
Subject: FLORENCE THURSDAY!!!
Fellow Wheelers,
James Towle and I will be running upper and lower woodpecker this thursday,
anyone else out there who's free come out and join us, I think Andrew and Tom
Deeren will be out there also.
Erik Vasquez
91 YJ
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88360 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 6:47pm
Subject: RE: Coconino drops restrictions also
Prescott Also dropped most restrictions
http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/prescott/
"I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member" Groucho
Marx
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike & Karen Acuna [mailto:mkacuna@c...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 6:00 PM
To: RockRats@yahoogroups. Com; AZundertakers; Az_Vjc; Hackle
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Coconino drops restrictions also
What about the Crown King area?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
To: "RockRats@yahoogroups. Com" <RockRats@yahoogroups.com>; "AZundertakers"
<AZundertakers@yahoogroups.com>; "Az_Vjc" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 5:01 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Coconino drops restrictions also
> http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/coconino/news.shtml
> Jim F.
>
> "I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member" Groucho
> Marx
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
88361 From: b h <xjnation@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 6:51pm
Subject: NEEDED QUICK! XJ DANA 30 HOUSING WITH 3.54 GEARS....BEFORE WEEKEND!
Hey all,
Im hoping someone has a good dana 30 housing with 3.55
gears HP for an 88 XJ...with vac disco...Im helping
someonw who has bent the front housing in an accident
and needs the jeep runnig before monday...what you
guys got?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
88362 From: b h <xjnation@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 6:58pm
Subject: NEEDED QUICK! XJ DANA 30 HOUSING WITH 3.54 GEARS....BEFORE WEEKEND!
Hey all,
Im hoping someone has a good dana 30 housing with 3.55
gears HP for an 88 XJ...with vac disco...Im helping
someonw who has bent the front housing in an accident
and needs the jeep runnig before monday...what you
guys got?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
88363 From: dbkcs <dbkcs@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 7:04pm
Subject: Re: roll bar needed
Uh you mean sportbar :) right
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, rmgonzo02@a... wrote:
> i have a 89 yj that i need a roll bar for. i want to get one from
a 92 or
> newer. if you have one or maybe know where i can get one for a
good price email
> me rmgonzo02@a...
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88364 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 7:59pm
Subject: Re: Re: Anyone wanna guess
Oops. In the case of a rear axle, the J-arms go to the back of the axle
tube. I had front axle on my brain.
On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 07:20 AM, Chris Krieg wrote:
> Not exactly correct. Yes, the J-arms do go under the axle, but I
> believe the still offer more clearance than the tock control arm
> brackets.
>
> Chris
>
> On Sunday, July 27, 2003, at 05:30 PM, Scott Maiden wrote:
>
>> No disadvantages,? like arms running under the axle like rock
>> anchors?? ;p
>>
>> Scott Maiden
>>
>> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "FredTJ" <fredtj@c...> wrote:
>>> Yes sir !!!
>>> I'me also doing the lower j-arms in the front and will be running a
>> single,
>>> longer upper control arm in the front.
>>> The j-arms are around 8" longer than stock control arms, so this
>> makes it a
>>> "medium" arm kit, as opposed to a long arm kit.
>>> It provides all the advantages of a LA with none of the
>> disadvantages ;)
>>>
>>>
>>> :)
>>> Fred
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Rio Harbour" <rioshilo@c...>
>>> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 11:32 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Anyone wanna guess
>>>
>>>
>>>> Recessed rear shock mounts into the outside of the frame with
>> lower J arms
>>>> for the rear.... Did I win?
>>>>
>>>> Rio
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "FredTJ" <fredtj@c...>
>>>> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 8:54 AM
>>>> Subject: [az_vjc] Anyone wanna guess
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What I'm gettting ready to do ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.fredtj.com/images/photos/table/Parts1.JPG
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.fredtj.com/images/photos/table/Parts2.JPG
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> :)
>>>>> Fred
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
88365 From: David Cole <lists@o...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:07pm
Subject: Rain and more rain
Gilbert is currently getting a good drenching.
David
88366 From: flatfenderman2000 <cnd4ever@g...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:06pm
Subject: FJ Area rain!
Ye-Haw!! As I type this message I can see the Box Canyon area be
pounded with a Thunderstorm! I wish there would be enough to flood
and remove all the rock stacking from our favorite trails!
Chris L.
44 Willys Buggy,
Flornece Local
88367 From: Wade Ungaro <swaders7@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:09pm
Subject: Re: Rain and more rain
Yessirreee!!! We are getting clobbered here at work! Sounds like the walls are gonna cave in!
~Wade
David Cole <lists@o...> wrote:
Gilbert is currently getting a good drenching.
David
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88368 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@c...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:22pm
Subject: Re: advantages/disadvantages? [was Re: Anyone wanna guess]
You are only partially correct about J-arms. They are not short arms
and they run at less angle than short arms. The ones Fred will be using
are 8" longer (I believe) than stock arms. This will allow them to flex
straighter up and down like a longarm kit. They also reduce the angle
of the control arm. Don't look at the arm itself for the angle. You
must look at the relative angle between the arm mounting points, not
the arm tubing itself. Since the J-arms mount at the midpoint of the
rear of the axle (on a rear application), the mounting point is much
higher than a stock setup. This effectively decreases the arm angle and
makes them handle much better on the road and flex better off. The
tires will not swing forward as much as a short arm.
You will have more clearance so you don't have to drag them over the
rocks. Trim up those upper control arm mounts and you gain even more
room. As has been said before, the FireAnt uses them in the stock frame
mounts and they don't seem to need to use the arms to get themselves
over the obstacles. See the rear suspension pics on this page:
http://www.extreme4x4.com/Fireant/page4.html
Stock mounts and the same arms Fred is using. Seems to work great for
them. You can also triangulate the rear just like they did so that is a
moot point.
By the way, what do you base your 4" of suspension or less comment?
Many people run 4"+ lifts on short arms. There is no reason why you
can't run a medium length arm like the J-arms, with bigger lifts.
This is not a flame. I'm just pointing out a few inaccuracies about the
J-arms.
Chris
On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 11:12 AM, Mike wrote:
> As for the J arms, The only advantages that I see (someone correct
> me if I'm missing something) are more control of the axle due to the
> mounting point being around the back of the axle. The extra length
> is only because it has to wrap around. It also has jonnie joints at
> both ends for more articulation. For a long arm kit, I see many
> advantages. With a tall lift, it soaks up the bumps MUCH better than
> short arms because the angle of the arm is less severe since its
> frame mounting point is moved back. Also with the added length, it
> can articulate alot further with far less stress on the arms, axle
> and all the components since the "arc" of movement is alot larger.
> Most long arm kits mount to the frame up above the skid plate so
> there is no (or very little) interference to cause hang ups. The
> arms can actually slide along a rock and help get you over an
> obstacle with less stress on axle components since the tire is
> hitting the rock below 90 deg. to the rock. If triangulating the
> long arms, you get added benefiets of losing your track bar and
> allowing for articulation in both directions to be the same. I think
> that the most obvious benefiets that someone will see of the long
> arms is if you are over 6" of lift and feel bumps on the road. With
> short arms you can actually feel and see the axle pushing back into
> the arm and frame. With a long arm, your angle is far less severe
> and it absorbs the bumps MUCH softer. With that and the larger arc,
> you have alot less wear on bushings, joints, and axle parts. The J
> arms are great for lifts that are 4" or less, but I don't see them
> working nearly as well with taller Jeeps. Can anyone show me that
> they work for taller lifts?
>
> Mike Anderson
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Linda" <minihummer@w...> wrote:
>> Mike,
>>
>> What do you consider the advantages and disadvantages of the J-arms
>> (medium length control arms) and long-arms?
>>
>> I almost converted my old ZJ to a long-arm setup but backed off
> after
>> examining the design/fab/materials/maintenance costs versus what I
>> would get out it. Then I sold the Jeep :-(
>>
>> Linda
>> 54 wagon - old tech being refreshed
>>
>> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <msa12171@a...> wrote:
>>> The J arms DO offer some advantages that long arms have, not ALL,
>> and
>>> they DO have disadvantages. I'll stick with my long arms, I like
>> the
>>> advantages that they offer.
>>>
>>> Mike Anderson
>>>
>>> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "FredTJ" <fredtj@c...> wrote:
>>>> Yes sir !!!
>>>> I'me also doing the lower j-arms in the front and will be
> running
>> a
>>> single,
>>>> longer upper control arm in the front.
>>>> The j-arms are around 8" longer than stock control arms, so
> this
>>> makes it a
>>>> "medium" arm kit, as opposed to a long arm kit.
>>>> It provides all the advantages of a LA with none of the
>>> disadvantages ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> :)
>>>> Fred
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Rio Harbour" <rioshilo@c...>
>>>> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 11:32 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Anyone wanna guess
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Recessed rear shock mounts into the outside of the frame with
>>> lower J arms
>>>>> for the rear.... Did I win?
>>>>>
>>>>> Rio
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "FredTJ" <fredtj@c...>
>>>>> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 8:54 AM
>>>>> Subject: [az_vjc] Anyone wanna guess
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I'm gettting ready to do ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.fredtj.com/images/photos/table/Parts1.JPG
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.fredtj.com/images/photos/table/Parts2.JPG
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> :)
>>>>>> Fred
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
88369 From: thebiggzimm <zimmermansjn@m...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:35pm
Subject: rain
its raining in Casa Grande
88370 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:40pm
Subject: Re: Flexin' Rocks!
see thats what I am talkin about! you arent playin any games over there.
I need a few of those on my property..... :)
Frank
http://groups.msn.com/BadAzXJ
http://groups.msn.com/badazxj/arizonaundertakers.msnw
>From: "Casper" <casper@c...>
>Reply-To: "Casper" <casper@c...>
>To: "AZVJC" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [az_vjc] Flexin' Rocks!
>Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:27:23 -0500
>
>Here you go. Now these are Flexin' Rocks. These are actually my front yard.
>Take a look. Darn, think my jeep with a strap could move mine around?
>http://www.cybertrails.com/~casper
>go to the XJ page and page down to the 4 pictures. Click on a picture for a
>larger image.
>
>Casper
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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88371 From: yzguyone25 <YZGUYONE25@m...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:22pm
Subject: the beauty of rain!
Pouring down rain in Avondale!!! Can't wait to play in the mud.
Unfortunately it's gonna be messy in the TJ with no top and only a
set of soft half doors! : ) Oh well!
Justin Olson
88372 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:35pm
Subject: RE: FLORENCE THURSDAY!!!
I envy you guys. If I could be there I would. I have to be in Las Vegas
Wed - Fri. :(
Be carefull the trail should be pretty intresting with all the rain.
Joey K
http://www.desertjeep.com
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: offroadsundevil5@a... [mailto:offroadsundevil5@a...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 6:47 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; AZundertakers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] FLORENCE THURSDAY!!!
Fellow Wheelers,
James Towle and I will be running upper and lower woodpecker this
thursday,
anyone else out there who's free come out and join us, I think Andrew
and Tom
Deeren will be out there also.
Erik Vasquez
91 YJ
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
88373 From: Keith <khaw@n...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:53pm
Subject: Motor cutting out.
I hope I can explain this. While driving around it seems like the motor
cuts out. Almost like you switch it off and back on real quick.
It also does it sometimes when you let off the gas and then step on it
again. Sometimes it even does it when you take off from a stop. This
just started. It has a fairly new TPS and MAP. Any ideas?
Thanks
Keith
Guess I should add it's a 87 4.0/AW4
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88374 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 10:10pm
Subject: Re: advantages/disadvantages? [was Re: Anyone wanna guess]
Chris, thanks for thf explanation e-mail. It's perfect !
I was going to write, basically the same, but lost interest trying to
explain.
I was going to wait until I got both ends done, then post up some photos.
You're absolutely right in your assumptions below. You understand link
suspension ;)
What some people may not understand, is that the effective length of a
control arm is the length from mounting point to mounting point, pretty much
irrespective of "where" the arm mounts.
The Currie j-arms are ca 50%+ longer than stock arms, which makes them "long
arms".. We like to call them "medium arms" as they are shorter then most, if
not all, of the commercial "long arm" kits. But the fact is still that they
are considerably longer than stock.
Also, as you clearly mentioned below, and what some people don't understand,
is that the angle of the arm has nothing to do with it's shape. It can be a
double "s" shape, doesn't matter.. The angle is the angle of a piece of
string, pulled tight, that intersects the center of the mounting points on
both end of the arms..
People have the same problem with track bars, trying to get them parallel to
the drag link.. They think that if they bend 'em into all sorts of weird "s"
's and stuff the the angle changes. It doesn't. The angle is the angle of a
piece of string pulled tight and intersect the mounting bolt on both ends.
Doesn't matter if the track bar wraps around the Jeep and over the top ;)
Anyway, regarding the j-arms. I haven't measure exactly yet, but, as you've
mentioned (correctly again :) ), the axle mounting point is ca the mid line
of the axle, and with a quick look it appears that it's 4" or so higher than
the stock moutns.. That's a lot, and makes for a much better angle.
You're also correct on the amount of lift.. Not quite sure where the 4" came
from ;)
I know of two Jeeps in CA running this setup.. Blaine Johnson did 'em both,
and thinks that Kims Jeep is the best handling Jeep that he's ever
driven.....
Anyway, I didn't want to try to get into this much explanation. You did a
fantastic job with it !!
I'll post photos and all, as I progress with this project.
The rear will be done first, probably starting this weekend, cutting and
welding in the Ford shock towers for the shock relocation, and then probably
the following weekend, to cut off the stock ca mounts and weld the new
j-arms mounts and axle shock mounts up and install the new j-arms.. BTW, I'm
already triangulated in the rear, whoever asked about that.
The front will be a month or so down the road.. I need to wait until I find
a HP30, and then re-gear it, and get the Warn kit installed in it.
Best,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Krieg" <rv6a@c...>
To: "Mike" <msa12171@a...>
Cc: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] advantages/disadvantages? [was Re: Anyone wanna guess]
> You are only partially correct about J-arms. They are not short arms
> and they run at less angle than short arms. The ones Fred will be using
> are 8" longer (I believe) than stock arms. This will allow them to flex
> straighter up and down like a longarm kit. They also reduce the angle
> of the control arm. Don't look at the arm itself for the angle. You
> must look at the relative angle between the arm mounting points, not
> the arm tubing itself. Since the J-arms mount at the midpoint of the
> rear of the axle (on a rear application), the mounting point is much
> higher than a stock setup. This effectively decreases the arm angle and
> makes them handle much better on the road and flex better off. The
> tires will not swing forward as much as a short arm.
> You will have more clearance so you don't have to drag them over the
> rocks. Trim up those upper control arm mounts and you gain even more
> room. As has been said before, the FireAnt uses them in the stock frame
> mounts and they don't seem to need to use the arms to get themselves
> over the obstacles. See the rear suspension pics on this page:
>
> http://www.extreme4x4.com/Fireant/page4.html
>
> Stock mounts and the same arms Fred is using. Seems to work great for
> them. You can also triangulate the rear just like they did so that is a
> moot point.
>
> By the way, what do you base your 4" of suspension or less comment?
> Many people run 4"+ lifts on short arms. There is no reason why you
> can't run a medium length arm like the J-arms, with bigger lifts.
>
> This is not a flame. I'm just pointing out a few inaccuracies about the
> J-arms.
>
> Chris
>
> On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 11:12 AM, Mike wrote:
>
> > As for the J arms, The only advantages that I see (someone correct
> > me if I'm missing something) are more control of the axle due to the
> > mounting point being around the back of the axle. The extra length
> > is only because it has to wrap around. It also has jonnie joints at
> > both ends for more articulation. For a long arm kit, I see many
> > advantages. With a tall lift, it soaks up the bumps MUCH better than
> > short arms because the angle of the arm is less severe since its
> > frame mounting point is moved back. Also with the added length, it
> > can articulate alot further with far less stress on the arms, axle
> > and all the components since the "arc" of movement is alot larger.
> > Most long arm kits mount to the frame up above the skid plate so
> > there is no (or very little) interference to cause hang ups. The
> > arms can actually slide along a rock and help get you over an
> > obstacle with less stress on axle components since the tire is
> > hitting the rock below 90 deg. to the rock. If triangulating the
> > long arms, you get added benefiets of losing your track bar and
> > allowing for articulation in both directions to be the same. I think
> > that the most obvious benefiets that someone will see of the long
> > arms is if you are over 6" of lift and feel bumps on the road. With
> > short arms you can actually feel and see the axle pushing back into
> > the arm and frame. With a long arm, your angle is far less severe
> > and it absorbs the bumps MUCH softer. With that and the larger arc,
> > you have alot less wear on bushings, joints, and axle parts. The J
> > arms are great for lifts that are 4" or less, but I don't see them
> > working nearly as well with taller Jeeps. Can anyone show me that
> > they work for taller lifts?
> >
> > Mike Anderson
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Linda" <minihummer@w...> wrote:
> >> Mike,
> >>
> >> What do you consider the advantages and disadvantages of the J-arms
> >> (medium length control arms) and long-arms?
> >>
> >> I almost converted my old ZJ to a long-arm setup but backed off
> > after
> >> examining the design/fab/materials/maintenance costs versus what I
> >> would get out it. Then I sold the Jeep :-(
> >>
> >> Linda
> >> 54 wagon - old tech being refreshed
> >>
> >> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <msa12171@a...> wrote:
> >>> The J arms DO offer some advantages that long arms have, not ALL,
> >> and
> >>> they DO have disadvantages. I'll stick with my long arms, I like
> >> the
> >>> advantages that they offer.
> >>>
> >>> Mike Anderson
> >>>
> >>> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "FredTJ" <fredtj@c...> wrote:
> >>>> Yes sir !!!
> >>>> I'me also doing the lower j-arms in the front and will be
> > running
> >> a
> >>> single,
> >>>> longer upper control arm in the front.
> >>>> The j-arms are around 8" longer than stock control arms, so
> > this
> >>> makes it a
> >>>> "medium" arm kit, as opposed to a long arm kit.
> >>>> It provides all the advantages of a LA with none of the
> >>> disadvantages ;)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> :)
> >>>> Fred
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Rio Harbour" <rioshilo@c...>
> >>>> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> >>>> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 11:32 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Anyone wanna guess
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Recessed rear shock mounts into the outside of the frame with
> >>> lower J arms
> >>>>> for the rear.... Did I win?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Rio
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "FredTJ" <fredtj@c...>
> >>>>> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 8:54 AM
> >>>>> Subject: [az_vjc] Anyone wanna guess
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What I'm gettting ready to do ;)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.fredtj.com/images/photos/table/Parts1.JPG
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.fredtj.com/images/photos/table/Parts2.JPG
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> :)
> >>>>>> Fred
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
88375 From: Matt OBrien <makaioo@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:56pm
Subject: Re: the beauty of rain!
Man, you guys *really* need to take a trip up here to Oregon this
winter. After a few straight weeks of rain and overcast skies with
the occasional 10 minute "sun breaks", you won't be so excited when
the clouds roll in.
Seriously, I hear your occasional storms are like we had back east -
pouring hard with flash floods, lighting and thunder. Up here it
just a constant drizzle from October until May. Can't wait to get
there be lightning bait again.
Matt
K7MTO
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "yzguyone25" <YZGUYONE25@m...> wrote:
> Pouring down rain in Avondale!!! Can't wait to play in the mud.
> Unfortunately it's gonna be messy in the TJ with no top and only a
> set of soft half doors! : ) Oh well!