blooddrive
01-08-2004, 08:59 PM
88099-88123
88099 From: OneBdJeep <onebdjeep@c...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:00am
Subject: RE: Rubicon or sport
You noticed that too eh? They are so big that they have their own
climate... they are almost always chapped!!!
But she does have a nice set of... hair. (OUCH!!! Sorry honey - you have
purty lips too!!!)
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joe.west@s...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 1:42 PM
To: BADAZXJ XJArizona; rbales77@y...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Rubicon or sport
Her lips are TOOOOO BIG!
Ewwwwww....
-----Original Message-----
From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:35 AM
To: rbales77@y...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Rubicon or sport
I will trade my jeep for angelina jolie....straight across...... :)
Frank
http://groups.msn.com/BadAzXJ
http://groups.msn.com/badazxj/arizonaundertakers.msnw
>From: "rbales77" <rbales77@y...>
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Rubicon or sport
>Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:19:00 -0000
>
>I have to agree that if the Jeep came with Lora Croft I would have to
>buy that one to. The big question is. Is it better to get a Jeep
>that has no upgrades on it or to get a Rubicon which has everything
>that I would get. The only thing that I would think about changing
>is the lift. Any suggestions
>
>Rob
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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88100 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:10am
Subject: Re: Re: FW: URGENT AZ LEADERSHIP WORKSHOP
John,
Your point is well taken regarding what the fundamental issue really is.
However, does that not dictate that the NOHVCC should go beyond
OHV to include all outdoor sportsman? Or am I reading too much
into the "OHV" part of the NOHVCC name? Or am I simply
misinformed?
-Roger
John Stewart wrote:
> Consider this a fill in for Sandee while she attends to personal
> matters of great interest.....
>
> I will say that once differences with mode of transportation are set
> aside, there is a fundamental issue: access to lands, public or
> private, for recreation interests.
>
> Is there a certain amount of hype in the subject? Yes, but not if
> you really cared about your recreation opportunities.
>
> California has been there done that and lost opportunities. It is a
> toss-up as to whether Arizona, Nevada or New Mexico are next on the
> firing line.
>
> Consider the Cross Country Travel Management Plan. Consider the
> pending issues with the Cinders. Consider the State Lands Trust
> issues.
>
> You guys stand to lose a lot if you cannot get ALL recreation
> interests to at least sing in the same choir with the same sheet of
> music. Okay, you can be slightly off key and out of sync; but get in
> the same choir with the same music.
>
> Direct flames at me, not Sandee.........
88101 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:03am
Subject: Re: Re: Which is better YJ or TJ AC
<tomasr@a...> wrote>>>
"they are completely interchangeable with the shafts
that take the smaller 260 u-joints".
I think you probably mean to say that the Axle Shafts are interchangable
with the axles...but you cant just stuff a 297 joint in your 260 jointed
axle shafts. You need to replace the entire inner and outer shaft to put in
the bigger joint. I agree...its not a deal breaker. For a few hundred bucks
you can have the stronger jointed shafts and keep your old 260's as trail
spares :)
Also, as long as you go into the deal knowing that the 35C has got to
go............
Frank
http://groups.msn.com/BadAzXJ
http://groups.msn.com/badazxj/arizonaundertakers.msnw
>From: "tomas2691" <tomasr@a...>
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Which is better YJ or TJ AC
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:40:24 -0000
>
>I agree with most of what Doug said. However, I'll disagree with his
>rationale for picking a 95 over other years. In my opinion, the fact
>that the 95's came with 297 u-joints is relatively insignificant
>because the axles that take those u-joints can be had new for about
>$135 a side and they are completely interchangeable with the shafts
>that take the smaller 260 u-joints.
>
>The more important criteria - in my opinion - for selecting certain
>years is the motors and trannies. The early YJ's came with
>carbeurated 4.2L motors and Peugot trannies. Some also came with a
>different t-case (207?). These are the ones to stay away from. What
>you really want in a YJ is the 91 and later which gets you the fuel
>injected 4.0HO motor and the AX15 tranny (and NP231 t-case). It also
>gets you the later style roll cage which is good if you have
>passengers in the rear seat.
>
>-Roger
>
>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "DougB" <azjeep@c...> wrote:
> > YJ's 94 and older have 260 axle joints (weak), whereas the 95 YJ
>and all
> > TJ's have 297 joints, which are much stronger. Also, most (if not
>all YJ's)
> > have the D35c rear axle. TJ's also have this axle, but also come
>(as an
> > option) w/ D44's.
> >
> > TJ's have a better ride (IMO) than YJ's, however, YJ's are easier
>and
> > cheaper to do axle upgrades.
> >
> > Both are extremely capable offroad.
> >
> > If interested in a YJ, I'd look at 95's.
> >
> > If interested in a TJ, get one with a D44.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "bk83gold" <bk83@j...>
> > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 9:50 PM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Which is better YJ or TJ AC
> >
> >
> > > I am looking at buying a nother jeep and I want to know if there
>is a
> > > real difference in the YJ and TJ ac. I know the TJ is an overall
> > > better jeep but I have heard that the TJ's air is as good as a
>car's
> > > ac. Is there any truth to this, or are people just talking bull.
> > >
> > > Thanks guys happy wheeling,
> > > Brandon
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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88102 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:07am
Subject: Re: Extended Warranties
I got one for my wifes van from our credit union. It has a 50.00 deductible
and I think it cost me a total of 1300 bucks for 7 years 75k. I understand
that most credit unions offer them as well. They get group discount pricing
or something along those lines.
HTH,
Frank
http://groups.msn.com/BadAzXJ
http://groups.msn.com/badazxj/arizonaundertakers.msnw
>From: "JimSerio" <jim@r...>
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Extended Warranties
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:27:02 -0000
>
>I'm in the process of buying an extended warranty for my 2001 XJ. It
>has 33K on it and a little under a year left on the original 3/36
>warranty. I was considering buying on the Intertnet and so far have
>found 2 places that offer the 7/100 ($50 deductable) for $2550. That
>includes the additional charges for 4x4 and mileage/age of the
>vehicle.
>
>I decided I would call the local 5 star dealerships to see what
>their cost was (read on Google Groups that someone did this in AZ a
>few years ago). Only Pitre was willing to share his costs (and faxed
>them to me). Howevere, even they seem high. It's 2K for the 7/100/
>$50 plus $100 each for 4x4 and over/under 24/36 mileage. Plus he
>added a $100 over that. So $2400. This seems a little high having
>researched warranties on Google Groups. I recall many buying them
>for around $900-$1600 (Maximum care.. same one as I'm looking at).
>Does anyone here know if these costs are about right? I'm tempted to
>give me business to Pitre as the guy there (Joe) was pretty nice. He
>said they they don't go for profit on the warranties, but customer
>loyalty. I just want to make sure this is a good price.
>
>Any advice or info would be appreciated.
>
>Jim
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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88103 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:11am
Subject: RE: Re: Which is better YJ or TJ AC
"Also, as long as you go into the deal knowing that the 35C has got to
go............"
Or the 35C could be upgraded with the Super 35 Kit.
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:04 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Which is better YJ or TJ AC
<tomasr@a...> wrote>>>
"they are completely interchangeable with the shafts
that take the smaller 260 u-joints".
I think you probably mean to say that the Axle Shafts are interchangable
with the axles...but you cant just stuff a 297 joint in your 260 jointed
axle shafts. You need to replace the entire inner and outer shaft to put
in
the bigger joint. I agree...its not a deal breaker. For a few hundred
bucks
you can have the stronger jointed shafts and keep your old 260's as
trail
spares :)
Also, as long as you go into the deal knowing that the 35C has got to
go............
Frank
http://groups.msn.com/BadAzXJ
http://groups.msn.com/badazxj/arizonaundertakers.msnw
>From: "tomas2691" <tomasr@a...>
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Which is better YJ or TJ AC
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:40:24 -0000
>
>I agree with most of what Doug said. However, I'll disagree with his
>rationale for picking a 95 over other years. In my opinion, the fact
>that the 95's came with 297 u-joints is relatively insignificant
>because the axles that take those u-joints can be had new for about
>$135 a side and they are completely interchangeable with the shafts
>that take the smaller 260 u-joints.
>
>The more important criteria - in my opinion - for selecting certain
>years is the motors and trannies. The early YJ's came with
>carbeurated 4.2L motors and Peugot trannies. Some also came with a
>different t-case (207?). These are the ones to stay away from. What
>you really want in a YJ is the 91 and later which gets you the fuel
>injected 4.0HO motor and the AX15 tranny (and NP231 t-case). It also
>gets you the later style roll cage which is good if you have
>passengers in the rear seat.
>
>-Roger
>
>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "DougB" <azjeep@c...> wrote:
> > YJ's 94 and older have 260 axle joints (weak), whereas the 95 YJ
>and all
> > TJ's have 297 joints, which are much stronger. Also, most (if not
>all YJ's)
> > have the D35c rear axle. TJ's also have this axle, but also come
>(as an
> > option) w/ D44's.
> >
> > TJ's have a better ride (IMO) than YJ's, however, YJ's are easier
>and
> > cheaper to do axle upgrades.
> >
> > Both are extremely capable offroad.
> >
> > If interested in a YJ, I'd look at 95's.
> >
> > If interested in a TJ, get one with a D44.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "bk83gold" <bk83@j...>
> > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 9:50 PM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Which is better YJ or TJ AC
> >
> >
> > > I am looking at buying a nother jeep and I want to know if there
>is a
> > > real difference in the YJ and TJ ac. I know the TJ is an overall
> > > better jeep but I have heard that the TJ's air is as good as a
>car's
> > > ac. Is there any truth to this, or are people just talking bull.
> > >
> > > Thanks guys happy wheeling,
> > > Brandon
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________ _______________
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88104 From: Joe West <joe.west@s...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 0:13pm
Subject: Learn to do it yourself.. if you don't know how; I'd be happy to show you. Was RE: Dealership maintenance
Jim,
The absolute BEST thing you could do is learn to do it yourself. It is
EXTREMELY easy... Purchase a factory service manual and if you don't know
how to do it yourself... I'd be glad to teach you.
In fact, I'd be glad to teach anyone who is interested. If there is enough
interest; I'll put together a workshop.
The truth is, one of the nicest aspects of Jeep ownership is learning to do
it yourself.
Kind Regards,
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: JimSerio [mailto:jim@r...]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:30 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Dealership maintnence
Has anyone taken their Jeeps to any of the local dealers for the 30K
tune-up? What's the cost run on this and what does it include? I'm
leaning toward Darner since they get such good marks from this
group, but if anyone else has recommendations, I'd appreciate it.
BTW... I'm considering a dealer as opposed to a mom/pop shop as I've
read that some warranty work may require proof of regular
maintenence. Who better to have those records than a dealer.
Jim
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
88105 From: katvans1 <rjentaz@d...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 0:23pm
Subject: Camp Verde area
Thanks to all the members that responded to my post about info on
the Camp Verde area.
Ya all know who ya are.
Rich in CC
88106 From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 0:37pm
Subject: Re: Which is better YJ or TJ AC
Yes, that is what I meant. I've noticed some people use the
word "axle" to mean "axle shaft". Others use the word "axle" to mean
the entire housing and its contents. I usually take care to
specify "axle shaft" when that is what I mean. This time I was
careless. Sorry for any confusion.
-Roger
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
wrote:
> <tomasr@a...> wrote>>>
> "they are completely interchangeable with the shafts
> that take the smaller 260 u-joints".
>
>
> I think you probably mean to say that the Axle Shafts are
interchangable
> with the axles...but you cant just stuff a 297 joint in your 260
jointed
> axle shafts. You need to replace the entire inner and outer shaft
to put in
> the bigger joint. I agree...its not a deal breaker. For a few
hundred bucks
> you can have the stronger jointed shafts and keep your old 260's as
trail
> spares :)
>
> Also, as long as you go into the deal knowing that the 35C has got
to
> go............
>
> Frank
88107 From: Daver <daver@i...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:18pm
Subject: Re: Re: Which is better YJ or TJ AC
'91+had the 4.0/ax15/np231
'92+also have the later style "sport" bar
At 05:40 PM 7/24/2003 +0000, tomas2691 wrote:
>I agree with most of what Doug said. However, I'll disagree with his
>rationale for picking a 95 over other years. In my opinion, the fact
>that the 95's came with 297 u-joints is relatively insignificant
>because the axles that take those u-joints can be had new for about
>$135 a side and they are completely interchangeable with the shafts
>that take the smaller 260 u-joints.
>
>The more important criteria - in my opinion - for selecting certain
>years is the motors and trannies. The early YJ's came with
>carbeurated 4.2L motors and Peugot trannies. Some also came with a
>different t-case (207?). These are the ones to stay away from. What
>you really want in a YJ is the 91 and later which gets you the fuel
>injected 4.0HO motor and the AX15 tranny (and NP231 t-case). It also
>gets you the later style roll cage which is good if you have
>passengers in the rear seat.
>
>-Roger
>
>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "DougB" <azjeep@c...> wrote:
> > YJ's 94 and older have 260 axle joints (weak), whereas the 95 YJ
>and all
> > TJ's have 297 joints, which are much stronger. Also, most (if not
>all YJ's)
> > have the D35c rear axle. TJ's also have this axle, but also come
>(as an
> > option) w/ D44's.
> >
> > TJ's have a better ride (IMO) than YJ's, however, YJ's are easier
>and
> > cheaper to do axle upgrades.
> >
> > Both are extremely capable offroad.
> >
> > If interested in a YJ, I'd look at 95's.
> >
> > If interested in a TJ, get one with a D44.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "bk83gold" <bk83@j...>
> > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 9:50 PM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Which is better YJ or TJ AC
> >
> >
> > > I am looking at buying a nother jeep and I want to know if there
>is a
> > > real difference in the YJ and TJ ac. I know the TJ is an overall
> > > better jeep but I have heard that the TJ's air is as good as a
>car's
> > > ac. Is there any truth to this, or are people just talking bull.
> > >
> > > Thanks guys happy wheeling,
> > > Brandon
----------
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88108 From: brandon_towle <brandon_towle@h...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:23pm
Subject: Idle Air Control Valve...located on a ZJ?
CANT W8, you talked to my dad James about the Idle Air Control
Valve.
Can you give me a better description on where it is located.
I am going to try and fix it myself before I head down to Phoenix,
but behind the throttle body with a couple of wires?
E-mail me when you get the chance or anyone e-mail if you just may
know where this is at.
Brandon
brandon_towle@h...
88109 From: james kilcullen <whoozey1953@y...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:37pm
Subject: RE: Rubicon or sport
With a mouth that big, she won't get stretch marks around her lips.
OneBdJeep <onebdjeep@c...> wrote:You noticed that too eh? They are so big that they have their own
climate... they are almost always chapped!!!
But she does have a nice set of... hair. (OUCH!!! Sorry honey - you have
purty lips too!!!)
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joe.west@s...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 1:42 PM
To: BADAZXJ XJArizona; rbales77@y...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Rubicon or sport
Her lips are TOOOOO BIG!
Ewwwwww....
-----Original Message-----
From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:35 AM
To: rbales77@y...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Rubicon or sport
I will trade my jeep for angelina jolie....straight across...... :)
Frank
http://groups.msn.com/BadAzXJ
http://groups.msn.com/badazxj/arizonaundertakers.msnw
>From: "rbales77"
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Rubicon or sport
>Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:19:00 -0000
>
>I have to agree that if the Jeep came with Lora Croft I would have to
>buy that one to. The big question is. Is it better to get a Jeep
>that has no upgrades on it or to get a Rubicon which has everything
>that I would get. The only thing that I would think about changing
>is the lift. Any suggestions
>
>Rob
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88110 From: JimSerio <jim@r...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:41pm
Subject: Re: Learn to do it yourself.. if you don't know how; I'd be happy to show you. Was RE: Dealership maintenance
Joe,
I couldn't agree with you more, and I would *love* to do it myself.
I used to perform most of the maintenence on my last truck.
Unfortunately, where I currently live, I am unable to do any work on
my Jeep. If anyone is interesting in loaning me their driveway or
work space, I'd love to do (and learn) the work myself. I also would
like to perform a 2-3" lift but don't have the tools for this.
Maybe a monthly gathering at someone's house/shop where we can all
do maintenence?
Jim
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Joe West" <joe.west@s...> wrote:
> Jim,
>
> The absolute BEST thing you could do is learn to do it yourself.
It is
> EXTREMELY easy... Purchase a factory service manual and if you
don't know
> how to do it yourself... I'd be glad to teach you.
> In fact, I'd be glad to teach anyone who is interested. If there
is enough
> interest; I'll put together a workshop.
>
> The truth is, one of the nicest aspects of Jeep ownership is
learning to do
> it yourself.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Joe West
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JimSerio [mailto:jim@r...]
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:30 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Dealership maintnence
>
>
> Has anyone taken their Jeeps to any of the local dealers for the
30K
> tune-up? What's the cost run on this and what does it include? I'm
> leaning toward Darner since they get such good marks from this
> group, but if anyone else has recommendations, I'd appreciate it.
>
> BTW... I'm considering a dealer as opposed to a mom/pop shop as
I've
> read that some warranty work may require proof of regular
> maintenence. Who better to have those records than a dealer.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
88111 From: Linda <minihummer@w...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:50pm
Subject: Re: Idle Air Control Valve...located on a ZJ?
Brandon,
It is bolted into the throttle body. The TPS is there too. The Idle
Air Control is the larger of the two. Have you replaced the fuel
filter yet? That should be located in front of the gas tank. A
plugged fuel filter can also cause problems.
Linda
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "brandon_towle" <brandon_towle@h...>
wrote:
> CANT W8, you talked to my dad James about the Idle Air Control
> Valve.
> Can you give me a better description on where it is located.
> I am going to try and fix it myself before I head down to Phoenix,
> but behind the throttle body with a couple of wires?
> E-mail me when you get the chance or anyone e-mail if you just may
> know where this is at.
>
> Brandon
> brandon_towle@h...
88112 From: Mitch Woodward <bigwood@c...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 2:02pm
Subject: Re: Extended Warranties
Jim,
$2550 sounds outrageous. The extended warranty on my brother's 2001 Toy
Tacoma 4x4 cost $1150 for an additional 75,000 miles of complete coverage
with $0 deductible. He started his extended warr. with 35,000 miles, so the
coverage is out to 110,000 miles or 4 additional years. They have plans for
out to 6 years from now if you don't drive much. The same warranty on my
dad's 99 F-150 4x4 was $1275 for the additional 75K and 6 years. The
extended warranty for my Ford was about the same, but I traded in my truck
instead. Check with your local credit union to see if they carry the
Pinnacle warranties. I would be very hesitant to spend $2550. They do
require a basic inspection, but nothing major, especially considering that
whatever they find should be under the factory warranty anyway.
Mitch
----- Original Message -----
From: "JimSerio" <jim@r...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:27 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Extended Warranties
> I'm in the process of buying an extended warranty for my 2001 XJ. It
> has 33K on it and a little under a year left on the original 3/36
> warranty. I was considering buying on the Intertnet and so far have
> found 2 places that offer the 7/100 ($50 deductable) for $2550. That
> includes the additional charges for 4x4 and mileage/age of the
> vehicle.
>
> I decided I would call the local 5 star dealerships to see what
> their cost was (read on Google Groups that someone did this in AZ a
> few years ago). Only Pitre was willing to share his costs (and faxed
> them to me). Howevere, even they seem high. It's 2K for the 7/100/
> $50 plus $100 each for 4x4 and over/under 24/36 mileage. Plus he
> added a $100 over that. So $2400. This seems a little high having
> researched warranties on Google Groups. I recall many buying them
> for around $900-$1600 (Maximum care.. same one as I'm looking at).
> Does anyone here know if these costs are about right? I'm tempted to
> give me business to Pitre as the guy there (Joe) was pretty nice. He
> said they they don't go for profit on the warranties, but customer
> loyalty. I just want to make sure this is a good price.
>
> Any advice or info would be appreciated.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
88113 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 2:06pm
Subject: RE: Re: FW: URGENT AZ LEADERSHIP WORKSHOP
Chris this is not an attack or a flame. All I can say about your comments
is that I agree it is very frustrating to deal with the different agencies,
they are used to very little opposition from our side. This is changing (and
I thank everyone that gets involved) and it is kind of funny watching them
learn to deal with us. The time of concessions is long since over. We do not
win every fight, but we are starting to win some. Every time a greenie
proposed a new wilderness area I proposed we drop an existing one. I loved
the meeting in Prescott they proposed a wilderness study area and when I
asked how it would be managed they said as a wilderness area. I pointed out
that this made it an illegal wilderness area as only Congress can create a
wilderness area. After a couple minutes they agreed with me.
My point is we are making gains at this time. This new org. can help that.
Maybe in the near future we can take back some closed areas. CA did it in
the Dunes last year areas closed two years ago are now open per the BLM of
course the Greenies are fighting this in court. Congress is looking at
reworking the endangered species act. We are starting to turn the tide. Now
is not the time to stick your head in the sand.
Sorry this is so long but I feel my time spent in the meetings and writing
letters and making calls MAKES A DIFFERENCE. I wish we could get more to do
it! Jim F. aka Hackle
"I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member" Groucho
Marx
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Lindsey [mailto:azrubi@a...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:52 PM
To: Hackle; tomas2691; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: FW: URGENT AZ LEADERSHIP WORKSHOP
Please don't misunderstand me... This is not an attack.
The reality is that the majority of "users" consider
themselves "individuals". They're not part of a group. They don't
consider themselves as a "Jeeper", "Quader", "Motorcyclist" or whatever.
They're people wanting to go out and have a good time and enjoy
the "outdoors".
"WE" are never going to make the "greenies" take a step back, cuz, they
don't give a sh!t about what "we" want. They're on a mission and we will
never be able to mount a united front to repel them by trying to assemble
people that are just trying to make a living and have a little fun.
So, I ignore them. And I ignore most of you. I know it doesn't seem to
make sense, but if I don't give them or you any special consideration,
then your point of view isn't relevant.
I'm putting on my asbestos underwear, as I assume I'm going to receive
some flames over this. But, the bottom line, in my mind, is that if you
don't take them serious, no one else will. Or, if I'm completely wrong,
we're screwed anyway as the only options and alternatives I've seen
coming out of the OHV community for the last 20 years is concessions. I
for one, am tired of giving "it" up to make other people feel like I'm a
nice guy.
My .02 YMMV
Take care,
Chris
>>>----------------------->
Christopher Lindsey
Union Planters Mortgage
8700 E. Via de Ventura
Suite 150
Scottsdale, AZ 85258
http://www.ChrisLindsey.com
480-951-1422 Ext. 300 Main
623-742-9911 FAX Direct
602-577-5988 Cell
>>>------------------------>
-----Original Message-----
From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
To: "tomas2691" <tomasr@a...>, az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:12:56 -0700
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: FW: URGENT AZ LEADERSHIP WORKSHOP
> Roger you are missing a large part of the group that will help us
> while we
> help them. Last time I checked not everyone that is into OHV drives a
> 4-wheel drive. If we rely on only 4 wheel drive owners we are screwed.
> OHV
> covers all the Quads, Motorcycles, buggies, bronco's, Toys, Suzuki,
> sand,
> mud, plus the numerous other SUV's that at least camp. These are the
> type of
> numbers we need to get involved to start making the greenies take a
> step
> back. This is what I mean by one voice and a larger community. Jim F.
>
> "I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member"
> Groucho
> Marx
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tomas2691 [mailto:tomasr@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 4:01 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: FW: URGENT AZ LEADERSHIP WORKSHOP
>
>
> Any idea how this "organization" would relate to the ASA4WDC? I
> though the ASA4WDC was going to try to become that single, state-wide
> voice. Am I missing something?
>
> -Roger
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Hackle" <hackle@q...> wrote:
> > I have sent my registration in (again) This is well worth
> your time on a
> > weekend. If we get a good organization set up the entire OHV
> community would
> > speak with one voice and have the numbers behind it to make it
> stick. I urge
> > everyone that gets involved in the Land Use Meetings and even those
> that do
> > not to join in. I do not know how to make everyone understand how
> important
> > this could be if we put in the effort to get it started. OK off the
> soap
> > box. Jim F. aka Hackle
> >
> > "I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member"
> Groucho
> > Marx
> > Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
88114 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 2:16pm
Subject: Crown King Trail Times
I just wanted to send this message and I or someone else will send it again
before the trip. The trail times are when the group leaves. If you sign up
for my early bird run at 6:00 and show up at 6:05 you will be well behind
the group and probably be aired down and ready when Stu leaves at 7:00. We
will have a lot of vehicles on the trail at the same time and need to be on
time to keep each group separate from the others. Of course everyone wants
to be well ahead of Sharky as we all know how his trips to Crown King end
up. BTW anyone that is an EMT might want to think about joining Sharky's
group:) Jim F. aka Hackle
"I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member" Groucho
Marx
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
88115 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 2:31pm
Subject: [FS] Vendor Items Added
<p>
<font face=Arial>
Hello Members of the AzVJC,<br>
Kirk Sanich has just added some items to the Classified section of the AzVJC Website that may be of
interest to you. To see these items
<a href='http://www.azvjc.org/default.asp?A=X&ID=ForSale/default.asp?C=10'>
Click Here
</a>
or goto the website classifieds and select 'Vendor' from the list.<br>
Thank You,<br><br>
- The AzVJC Website<br><br>
</font>
</p>
88116 From: jetowle2000 <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 2:32pm
Subject: Re: Idle Air Control Valve...located on a ZJ?
Linda,
I believe he doesn't know what or where the throttle body is. I
have, just recently, sent him an email trying to explain. Does
anyone have a picture of one on a V8 possibly? (with red paint on
it, and.....) lol
--James
PS - the fuel filter was changed in May along with the pump, I did
it. Could it be that clogged already?
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Linda" <minihummer@w...> wrote:
> Brandon,
>
> It is bolted into the throttle body. The TPS is there too. The
Idle
> Air Control is the larger of the two. Have you replaced the fuel
> filter yet? That should be located in front of the gas tank. A
> plugged fuel filter can also cause problems.
>
> Linda
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "brandon_towle"
<brandon_towle@h...>
> wrote:
> > CANT W8, you talked to my dad James about the Idle Air Control
> > Valve.
> > Can you give me a better description on where it is located.
> > I am going to try and fix it myself before I head down to
Phoenix,
> > but behind the throttle body with a couple of wires?
> > E-mail me when you get the chance or anyone e-mail if you just
may
> > know where this is at.
> >
> > Brandon
> > brandon_towle@h...
88117 From: Mike & Karen Acuna <mkacuna@c...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 2:54pm
Subject: Re: Extended Warranties
Check with your credit union......or find a local credit union and get a
quote from them. They are usually quite a bit less expensive.
Mike
98 ZJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "JimSerio" <jim@r...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:27 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Extended Warranties
> I'm in the process of buying an extended warranty for my 2001 XJ. It
> has 33K on it and a little under a year left on the original 3/36
> warranty. I was considering buying on the Intertnet and so far have
> found 2 places that offer the 7/100 ($50 deductable) for $2550. That
> includes the additional charges for 4x4 and mileage/age of the
> vehicle.
>
> I decided I would call the local 5 star dealerships to see what
> their cost was (read on Google Groups that someone did this in AZ a
> few years ago). Only Pitre was willing to share his costs (and faxed
> them to me). Howevere, even they seem high. It's 2K for the 7/100/
> $50 plus $100 each for 4x4 and over/under 24/36 mileage. Plus he
> added a $100 over that. So $2400. This seems a little high having
> researched warranties on Google Groups. I recall many buying them
> for around $900-$1600 (Maximum care.. same one as I'm looking at).
> Does anyone here know if these costs are about right? I'm tempted to
> give me business to Pitre as the guy there (Joe) was pretty nice. He
> said they they don't go for profit on the warranties, but customer
> loyalty. I just want to make sure this is a good price.
>
> Any advice or info would be appreciated.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
88118 From: jeeper210420 <mtbjumper210@a...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:08pm
Subject: YJ front driveshaft
Anyone have a YJ 4cyl 5spd or 6cyl auto front driveshaft? Mine is a
new corkscrew and I cant see paying a ton of cash for something Im
gonna chage with an engine swap in the future.
88119 From: John Stewart <landuse@u...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:11pm
Subject: Re: Re: FW: URGENT AZ LEADERSHIP WORKSHOP
NOHVCC has been evolving over the years to encompass all aspects fo
motorized recreation.
Other groups are evolving to include all recreation modes that depend
on access to public lands.
One of the problems we face is the image of OHV recreation.
Rockhounds do not consider themselves as "OHV" recreationists.
However, with each route closure, their assess to collections areas
is reduced.
Same goes for the hunters and fishermen. They depend on OHV routes
to get to hunting and fishing areas. When those are lost, so is
their access.
In California, mountain bikers, equestrians, and motorized recreation
interests are forming coalitions to fight more wilderness
designations and to keep routes open. Within the motorized segment,
two-track (4x4 routs) and single-track (motorcycle routes) are being
mapped and documented with a coordinated effort. This was
unthinkable 5 years ago.
Hunting interests are also joining the effort so that they can
protect their routes of travel; many of which are dead-end spurs that
other motorized interests would sacrifice to save a loop route.
Yes, NOHVCC and other recreation groups need to embrace each others
interests and work together to support each other. We may not always
agree; but we need to work together.
At 11:10 AM -0700 7/24/03, Roger Tomas wrote:
>John,
>
>Your point is well taken regarding what the fundamental issue really is.
>However, does that not dictate that the NOHVCC should go beyond
>OHV to include all outdoor sportsman? Or am I reading too much
>into the "OHV" part of the NOHVCC name? Or am I simply
>misinformed?
>
>-Roger
>
>John Stewart wrote:
>
>> Consider this a fill in for Sandee while she attends to personal
>> matters of great interest.....
>>
>> I will say that once differences with mode of transportation are set
>> aside, there is a fundamental issue: access to lands, public or
>> private, for recreation interests.
>>
>> Is there a certain amount of hype in the subject? Yes, but not if
>> you really cared about your recreation opportunities.
>>
>> California has been there done that and lost opportunities. It is a
>> toss-up as to whether Arizona, Nevada or New Mexico are next on the
>> firing line.
>>
>> Consider the Cross Country Travel Management Plan. Consider the
>> pending issues with the Cinders. Consider the State Lands Trust
>> issues.
>>
>> You guys stand to lose a lot if you cannot get ALL recreation
>> interests to at least sing in the same choir with the same sheet of
>> music. Okay, you can be slightly off key and out of sync; but get in
>> the same choir with the same music.
>>
>> Direct flames at me, not Sandee.........
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--
John Stewart
Director, Environmental Affairs,
United Four Wheel Drive Associations, http://www.ufwda.org
Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
Moderator, MUIRNet - Multiple Use Information Resource Network
To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to MUIRNet, send email to john@m....
A fundamental law of public land access is:
Increased habitat designation for threatened and endangered species
is directly proportional to loss of access to public lands.
88120 From: Randy Davis <luvrocks@c...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:16pm
Subject: crown king meals
just a heads up should we find out if we need to get them some money early for a meal deal like we had to last year.they might ok this year as there is the horseshoe thing the week before just a thought!!!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88121 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:38pm
Subject: RE: Crown King Trail Times
Hey....don't push your time impaired Jeepers back to the 7:00 AM group!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hackle [mailto:hackle@q...]
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 2:16 PM
> To: Az_Vjc
> Subject: [az_vjc] Crown King Trail Times
>
>
> I just wanted to send this message and I or someone else
> will send it again
> before the trip. The trail times are when the group leaves. If you sign up
> for my early bird run at 6:00 and show up at 6:05 you will be well behind
> the group and probably be aired down and ready when Stu leaves at 7:00. We
> will have a lot of vehicles on the trail at the same time and
> need to be on
> time to keep each group separate from the others. Of course everyone wants
> to be well ahead of Sharky as we all know how his trips to Crown King end
> up. BTW anyone that is an EMT might want to think about joining Sharky's
> group:) Jim F. aka Hackle
>
> "I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member" Groucho
> Marx
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
88122 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:38pm
Subject: RE: Re: FW: URGENT AZ LEADERSHIP WORKSHOP
My registration for the workshop went in a few minutes ago.
Come on folks.....I donated a week of my vacation, last fall, to attend a
NOHVCC get together on the east side. Having it over a weekend is a bargain
as far as not having to burn vacation time!
Come on folks.....get your registrations sent in today! Looking forward to
seeing many of my friends there!
Stu
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Stewart [mailto:landuse@u...]
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 3:11 PM
> To: Roger Tomas; John Stewart
> Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: FW: URGENT AZ LEADERSHIP WORKSHOP
>
>
> NOHVCC has been evolving over the years to encompass all aspects fo
> motorized recreation.
>
> Other groups are evolving to include all recreation modes that depend
> on access to public lands.
>
> One of the problems we face is the image of OHV recreation.
> Rockhounds do not consider themselves as "OHV" recreationists.
> However, with each route closure, their assess to collections areas
> is reduced.
>
> Same goes for the hunters and fishermen. They depend on OHV routes
> to get to hunting and fishing areas. When those are lost, so is
> their access.
>
> In California, mountain bikers, equestrians, and motorized recreation
> interests are forming coalitions to fight more wilderness
> designations and to keep routes open. Within the motorized segment,
> two-track (4x4 routs) and single-track (motorcycle routes) are being
> mapped and documented with a coordinated effort. This was
> unthinkable 5 years ago.
>
> Hunting interests are also joining the effort so that they can
> protect their routes of travel; many of which are dead-end spurs that
> other motorized interests would sacrifice to save a loop route.
>
> Yes, NOHVCC and other recreation groups need to embrace each others
> interests and work together to support each other. We may not always
> agree; but we need to work together.
>
>
> At 11:10 AM -0700 7/24/03, Roger Tomas wrote:
> >John,
> >
> >Your point is well taken regarding what the fundamental issue really is.
> >However, does that not dictate that the NOHVCC should go beyond
> >OHV to include all outdoor sportsman? Or am I reading too much
> >into the "OHV" part of the NOHVCC name? Or am I simply
> >misinformed?
> >
> >-Roger
> >
> >John Stewart wrote:
> >
> >> Consider this a fill in for Sandee while she attends to personal
> >> matters of great interest.....
> >>
> >> I will say that once differences with mode of transportation are set
> >> aside, there is a fundamental issue: access to lands, public or
> >> private, for recreation interests.
> >>
> >> Is there a certain amount of hype in the subject? Yes, but not if
> >> you really cared about your recreation opportunities.
> >>
> >> California has been there done that and lost opportunities. It is a
> >> toss-up as to whether Arizona, Nevada or New Mexico are next on the
> >> firing line.
> >>
> >> Consider the Cross Country Travel Management Plan. Consider the
> >> pending issues with the Cinders. Consider the State Lands Trust
> >> issues.
> >>
> >> You guys stand to lose a lot if you cannot get ALL recreation
> >> interests to at least sing in the same choir with the same sheet of
> >> music. Okay, you can be slightly off key and out of sync; but get in
> >> the same choir with the same music.
> >>
> >> Direct flames at me, not Sandee.........
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> --
> John Stewart
> Director, Environmental Affairs,
> United Four Wheel Drive Associations, http://www.ufwda.org
> Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
> Moderator, MUIRNet - Multiple Use Information Resource Network
>
> To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to MUIRNet, send email to john@m....
>
> A fundamental law of public land access is:
>
> Increased habitat designation for threatened and endangered species
> is directly proportional to loss of access to public lands.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
88123 From: Dan Dennis <dannpegg@c...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:34pm
Subject: Re: FW: URGENT AZ LEADERSHIP WORKSHOP
I just faxed my registration in today and got a response back saying
they got it. I'll be there...I'll be driving from Lake Havasu the
Friday night before. Anyone got a couch or a dog house I can curl up
on/in??? I'd rather spend my money on Jeep stuff than on a hotel room.
AZ Treadhead (AKA BRUZR's Daddy)
97 TJ (BRUZR) in Lake Havasu City
PS- We finally got some rain this morning for an hour or so off and
on. Now it's just MUGGY out!!!
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> My registration for the workshop went in a few minutes ago.
>
> Come on folks.....I donated a week of my vacation, last fall, to
attend a
> NOHVCC get together on the east side. Having it over a weekend is
a bargain
> as far as not having to burn vacation time!
>
> Come on folks.....get your registrations sent in today! Looking
forward to
> seeing many of my friends there!
>
> Stu
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John Stewart [mailto:landuse@u...]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 3:11 PM
> > To: Roger Tomas; John Stewart
> > Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: FW: URGENT AZ LEADERSHIP WORKSHOP
> >
> >
> > NOHVCC has been evolving over the years to encompass all aspects
fo
> > motorized recreation.
> >
> > Other groups are evolving to include all recreation modes that
depend
> > on access to public lands.
> >
> > One of the problems we face is the image of OHV recreation.
> > Rockhounds do not consider themselves as "OHV" recreationists.
> > However, with each route closure, their assess to collections
areas
> > is reduced.
> >
> > Same goes for the hunters and fishermen. They depend on OHV
routes
> > to get to hunting and fishing areas. When those are lost, so is
> > their access.
> >
> > In California, mountain bikers, equestrians, and motorized
recreation
> > interests are forming coalitions to fight more wilderness
> > designations and to keep routes open. Within the motorized
segment,
> > two-track (4x4 routs) and single-track (motorcycle routes) are
being
> > mapped and documented with a coordinated effort. This was
> > unthinkable 5 years ago.
> >
> > Hunting interests are also joining the effort so that they can
> > protect their routes of travel; many of which are dead-end spurs
that
> > other motorized interests would sacrifice to save a loop route.
> >
> > Yes, NOHVCC and other recreation groups need to embrace each
others
> > interests and work together to support each other. We may not
always
> > agree; but we need to work together.
> >
> >
> > At 11:10 AM -0700 7/24/03, Roger Tomas wrote:
> > >John,
> > >
> > >Your point is well taken regarding what the fundamental issue
really is.
> > >However, does that not dictate that the NOHVCC should go beyond
> > >OHV to include all outdoor sportsman? Or am I reading too much
> > >into the "OHV" part of the NOHVCC name? Or am I simply
> > >misinformed?
> > >
> > >-Roger
> > >
> > >John Stewart wrote:
> > >
> > >> Consider this a fill in for Sandee while she attends to
personal
> > >> matters of great interest.....
> > >>
> > >> I will say that once differences with mode of transportation
are set
> > >> aside, there is a fundamental issue: access to lands, public
or
> > >> private, for recreation interests.
> > >>
> > >> Is there a certain amount of hype in the subject? Yes, but
not if
> > >> you really cared about your recreation opportunities.
> > >>
> > >> California has been there done that and lost opportunities.
It is a
> > >> toss-up as to whether Arizona, Nevada or New Mexico are next
on the
> > >> firing line.
> > >>
> > >> Consider the Cross Country Travel Management Plan. Consider
the
> > >> pending issues with the Cinders. Consider the State Lands
Trust
> > >> issues.
> > >>
> > >> You guys stand to lose a lot if you cannot get ALL recreation
> > >> interests to at least sing in the same choir with the same
sheet of
> > >> music. Okay, you can be slightly off key and out of sync;
but get in
> > >> the same choir with the same music.
> > >>
> > >> Direct flames at me, not Sandee.........
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > --
> > John Stewart
> > Director, Environmental Affairs,
> > United Four Wheel Drive Associations, http://www.ufwda.org
> > Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
> > Moderator, MUIRNet - Multiple Use Information Resource Network
> >
> > To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to MUIRNet, send email to john@m...
> >
> > A fundamental law of public land access is:
> >
> > Increased habitat designation for threatened and endangered
species
> > is directly proportional to loss of access to public lands.
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
88099 From: OneBdJeep <onebdjeep@c...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:00am
Subject: RE: Rubicon or sport
You noticed that too eh? They are so big that they have their own
climate... they are almost always chapped!!!
But she does have a nice set of... hair. (OUCH!!! Sorry honey - you have
purty lips too!!!)
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joe.west@s...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 1:42 PM
To: BADAZXJ XJArizona; rbales77@y...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Rubicon or sport
Her lips are TOOOOO BIG!
Ewwwwww....
-----Original Message-----
From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:35 AM
To: rbales77@y...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Rubicon or sport
I will trade my jeep for angelina jolie....straight across...... :)
Frank
http://groups.msn.com/BadAzXJ
http://groups.msn.com/badazxj/arizonaundertakers.msnw
>From: "rbales77" <rbales77@y...>
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Rubicon or sport
>Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:19:00 -0000
>
>I have to agree that if the Jeep came with Lora Croft I would have to
>buy that one to. The big question is. Is it better to get a Jeep
>that has no upgrades on it or to get a Rubicon which has everything
>that I would get. The only thing that I would think about changing
>is the lift. Any suggestions
>
>Rob
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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88100 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:10am
Subject: Re: Re: FW: URGENT AZ LEADERSHIP WORKSHOP
John,
Your point is well taken regarding what the fundamental issue really is.
However, does that not dictate that the NOHVCC should go beyond
OHV to include all outdoor sportsman? Or am I reading too much
into the "OHV" part of the NOHVCC name? Or am I simply
misinformed?
-Roger
John Stewart wrote:
> Consider this a fill in for Sandee while she attends to personal
> matters of great interest.....
>
> I will say that once differences with mode of transportation are set
> aside, there is a fundamental issue: access to lands, public or
> private, for recreation interests.
>
> Is there a certain amount of hype in the subject? Yes, but not if
> you really cared about your recreation opportunities.
>
> California has been there done that and lost opportunities. It is a
> toss-up as to whether Arizona, Nevada or New Mexico are next on the
> firing line.
>
> Consider the Cross Country Travel Management Plan. Consider the
> pending issues with the Cinders. Consider the State Lands Trust
> issues.
>
> You guys stand to lose a lot if you cannot get ALL recreation
> interests to at least sing in the same choir with the same sheet of
> music. Okay, you can be slightly off key and out of sync; but get in
> the same choir with the same music.
>
> Direct flames at me, not Sandee.........
88101 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:03am
Subject: Re: Re: Which is better YJ or TJ AC
<tomasr@a...> wrote>>>
"they are completely interchangeable with the shafts
that take the smaller 260 u-joints".
I think you probably mean to say that the Axle Shafts are interchangable
with the axles...but you cant just stuff a 297 joint in your 260 jointed
axle shafts. You need to replace the entire inner and outer shaft to put in
the bigger joint. I agree...its not a deal breaker. For a few hundred bucks
you can have the stronger jointed shafts and keep your old 260's as trail
spares :)
Also, as long as you go into the deal knowing that the 35C has got to
go............
Frank
http://groups.msn.com/BadAzXJ
http://groups.msn.com/badazxj/arizonaundertakers.msnw
>From: "tomas2691" <tomasr@a...>
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Which is better YJ or TJ AC
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:40:24 -0000
>
>I agree with most of what Doug said. However, I'll disagree with his
>rationale for picking a 95 over other years. In my opinion, the fact
>that the 95's came with 297 u-joints is relatively insignificant
>because the axles that take those u-joints can be had new for about
>$135 a side and they are completely interchangeable with the shafts
>that take the smaller 260 u-joints.
>
>The more important criteria - in my opinion - for selecting certain
>years is the motors and trannies. The early YJ's came with
>carbeurated 4.2L motors and Peugot trannies. Some also came with a
>different t-case (207?). These are the ones to stay away from. What
>you really want in a YJ is the 91 and later which gets you the fuel
>injected 4.0HO motor and the AX15 tranny (and NP231 t-case). It also
>gets you the later style roll cage which is good if you have
>passengers in the rear seat.
>
>-Roger
>
>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "DougB" <azjeep@c...> wrote:
> > YJ's 94 and older have 260 axle joints (weak), whereas the 95 YJ
>and all
> > TJ's have 297 joints, which are much stronger. Also, most (if not
>all YJ's)
> > have the D35c rear axle. TJ's also have this axle, but also come
>(as an
> > option) w/ D44's.
> >
> > TJ's have a better ride (IMO) than YJ's, however, YJ's are easier
>and
> > cheaper to do axle upgrades.
> >
> > Both are extremely capable offroad.
> >
> > If interested in a YJ, I'd look at 95's.
> >
> > If interested in a TJ, get one with a D44.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "bk83gold" <bk83@j...>
> > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 9:50 PM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Which is better YJ or TJ AC
> >
> >
> > > I am looking at buying a nother jeep and I want to know if there
>is a
> > > real difference in the YJ and TJ ac. I know the TJ is an overall
> > > better jeep but I have heard that the TJ's air is as good as a
>car's
> > > ac. Is there any truth to this, or are people just talking bull.
> > >
> > > Thanks guys happy wheeling,
> > > Brandon
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________ _______________
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88102 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:07am
Subject: Re: Extended Warranties
I got one for my wifes van from our credit union. It has a 50.00 deductible
and I think it cost me a total of 1300 bucks for 7 years 75k. I understand
that most credit unions offer them as well. They get group discount pricing
or something along those lines.
HTH,
Frank
http://groups.msn.com/BadAzXJ
http://groups.msn.com/badazxj/arizonaundertakers.msnw
>From: "JimSerio" <jim@r...>
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Extended Warranties
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:27:02 -0000
>
>I'm in the process of buying an extended warranty for my 2001 XJ. It
>has 33K on it and a little under a year left on the original 3/36
>warranty. I was considering buying on the Intertnet and so far have
>found 2 places that offer the 7/100 ($50 deductable) for $2550. That
>includes the additional charges for 4x4 and mileage/age of the
>vehicle.
>
>I decided I would call the local 5 star dealerships to see what
>their cost was (read on Google Groups that someone did this in AZ a
>few years ago). Only Pitre was willing to share his costs (and faxed
>them to me). Howevere, even they seem high. It's 2K for the 7/100/
>$50 plus $100 each for 4x4 and over/under 24/36 mileage. Plus he
>added a $100 over that. So $2400. This seems a little high having
>researched warranties on Google Groups. I recall many buying them
>for around $900-$1600 (Maximum care.. same one as I'm looking at).
>Does anyone here know if these costs are about right? I'm tempted to
>give me business to Pitre as the guy there (Joe) was pretty nice. He
>said they they don't go for profit on the warranties, but customer
>loyalty. I just want to make sure this is a good price.
>
>Any advice or info would be appreciated.
>
>Jim
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________ _______________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
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88103 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:11am
Subject: RE: Re: Which is better YJ or TJ AC
"Also, as long as you go into the deal knowing that the 35C has got to
go............"
Or the 35C could be upgraded with the Super 35 Kit.
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:04 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Which is better YJ or TJ AC
<tomasr@a...> wrote>>>
"they are completely interchangeable with the shafts
that take the smaller 260 u-joints".
I think you probably mean to say that the Axle Shafts are interchangable
with the axles...but you cant just stuff a 297 joint in your 260 jointed
axle shafts. You need to replace the entire inner and outer shaft to put
in
the bigger joint. I agree...its not a deal breaker. For a few hundred
bucks
you can have the stronger jointed shafts and keep your old 260's as
trail
spares :)
Also, as long as you go into the deal knowing that the 35C has got to
go............
Frank
http://groups.msn.com/BadAzXJ
http://groups.msn.com/badazxj/arizonaundertakers.msnw
>From: "tomas2691" <tomasr@a...>
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Which is better YJ or TJ AC
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:40:24 -0000
>
>I agree with most of what Doug said. However, I'll disagree with his
>rationale for picking a 95 over other years. In my opinion, the fact
>that the 95's came with 297 u-joints is relatively insignificant
>because the axles that take those u-joints can be had new for about
>$135 a side and they are completely interchangeable with the shafts
>that take the smaller 260 u-joints.
>
>The more important criteria - in my opinion - for selecting certain
>years is the motors and trannies. The early YJ's came with
>carbeurated 4.2L motors and Peugot trannies. Some also came with a
>different t-case (207?). These are the ones to stay away from. What
>you really want in a YJ is the 91 and later which gets you the fuel
>injected 4.0HO motor and the AX15 tranny (and NP231 t-case). It also
>gets you the later style roll cage which is good if you have
>passengers in the rear seat.
>
>-Roger
>
>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "DougB" <azjeep@c...> wrote:
> > YJ's 94 and older have 260 axle joints (weak), whereas the 95 YJ
>and all
> > TJ's have 297 joints, which are much stronger. Also, most (if not
>all YJ's)
> > have the D35c rear axle. TJ's also have this axle, but also come
>(as an
> > option) w/ D44's.
> >
> > TJ's have a better ride (IMO) than YJ's, however, YJ's are easier
>and
> > cheaper to do axle upgrades.
> >
> > Both are extremely capable offroad.
> >
> > If interested in a YJ, I'd look at 95's.
> >
> > If interested in a TJ, get one with a D44.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "bk83gold" <bk83@j...>
> > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 9:50 PM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Which is better YJ or TJ AC
> >
> >
> > > I am looking at buying a nother jeep and I want to know if there
>is a
> > > real difference in the YJ and TJ ac. I know the TJ is an overall
> > > better jeep but I have heard that the TJ's air is as good as a
>car's
> > > ac. Is there any truth to this, or are people just talking bull.
> > >
> > > Thanks guys happy wheeling,
> > > Brandon
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________ _______________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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88104 From: Joe West <joe.west@s...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 0:13pm
Subject: Learn to do it yourself.. if you don't know how; I'd be happy to show you. Was RE: Dealership maintenance
Jim,
The absolute BEST thing you could do is learn to do it yourself. It is
EXTREMELY easy... Purchase a factory service manual and if you don't know
how to do it yourself... I'd be glad to teach you.
In fact, I'd be glad to teach anyone who is interested. If there is enough
interest; I'll put together a workshop.
The truth is, one of the nicest aspects of Jeep ownership is learning to do
it yourself.
Kind Regards,
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: JimSerio [mailto:jim@r...]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:30 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Dealership maintnence
Has anyone taken their Jeeps to any of the local dealers for the 30K
tune-up? What's the cost run on this and what does it include? I'm
leaning toward Darner since they get such good marks from this
group, but if anyone else has recommendations, I'd appreciate it.
BTW... I'm considering a dealer as opposed to a mom/pop shop as I've
read that some warranty work may require proof of regular
maintenence. Who better to have those records than a dealer.
Jim
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
88105 From: katvans1 <rjentaz@d...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 0:23pm
Subject: Camp Verde area
Thanks to all the members that responded to my post about info on
the Camp Verde area.
Ya all know who ya are.
Rich in CC
88106 From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 0:37pm
Subject: Re: Which is better YJ or TJ AC
Yes, that is what I meant. I've noticed some people use the
word "axle" to mean "axle shaft". Others use the word "axle" to mean
the entire housing and its contents. I usually take care to
specify "axle shaft" when that is what I mean. This time I was
careless. Sorry for any confusion.
-Roger
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
wrote:
> <tomasr@a...> wrote>>>
> "they are completely interchangeable with the shafts
> that take the smaller 260 u-joints".
>
>
> I think you probably mean to say that the Axle Shafts are
interchangable
> with the axles...but you cant just stuff a 297 joint in your 260
jointed
> axle shafts. You need to replace the entire inner and outer shaft
to put in
> the bigger joint. I agree...its not a deal breaker. For a few
hundred bucks
> you can have the stronger jointed shafts and keep your old 260's as
trail
> spares :)
>
> Also, as long as you go into the deal knowing that the 35C has got
to
> go............
>
> Frank
88107 From: Daver <daver@i...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:18pm
Subject: Re: Re: Which is better YJ or TJ AC
'91+had the 4.0/ax15/np231
'92+also have the later style "sport" bar
At 05:40 PM 7/24/2003 +0000, tomas2691 wrote:
>I agree with most of what Doug said. However, I'll disagree with his
>rationale for picking a 95 over other years. In my opinion, the fact
>that the 95's came with 297 u-joints is relatively insignificant
>because the axles that take those u-joints can be had new for about
>$135 a side and they are completely interchangeable with the shafts
>that take the smaller 260 u-joints.
>
>The more important criteria - in my opinion - for selecting certain
>years is the motors and trannies. The early YJ's came with
>carbeurated 4.2L motors and Peugot trannies. Some also came with a
>different t-case (207?). These are the ones to stay away from. What
>you really want in a YJ is the 91 and later which gets you the fuel
>injected 4.0HO motor and the AX15 tranny (and NP231 t-case). It also
>gets you the later style roll cage which is good if you have
>passengers in the rear seat.
>
>-Roger
>
>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "DougB" <azjeep@c...> wrote:
> > YJ's 94 and older have 260 axle joints (weak), whereas the 95 YJ
>and all
> > TJ's have 297 joints, which are much stronger. Also, most (if not
>all YJ's)
> > have the D35c rear axle. TJ's also have this axle, but also come
>(as an
> > option) w/ D44's.
> >
> > TJ's have a better ride (IMO) than YJ's, however, YJ's are easier
>and
> > cheaper to do axle upgrades.
> >
> > Both are extremely capable offroad.
> >
> > If interested in a YJ, I'd look at 95's.
> >
> > If interested in a TJ, get one with a D44.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "bk83gold" <bk83@j...>
> > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 9:50 PM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Which is better YJ or TJ AC
> >
> >
> > > I am looking at buying a nother jeep and I want to know if there
>is a
> > > real difference in the YJ and TJ ac. I know the TJ is an overall
> > > better jeep but I have heard that the TJ's air is as good as a
>car's
> > > ac. Is there any truth to this, or are people just talking bull.
> > >
> > > Thanks guys happy wheeling,
> > > Brandon
----------
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88108 From: brandon_towle <brandon_towle@h...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:23pm
Subject: Idle Air Control Valve...located on a ZJ?
CANT W8, you talked to my dad James about the Idle Air Control
Valve.
Can you give me a better description on where it is located.
I am going to try and fix it myself before I head down to Phoenix,
but behind the throttle body with a couple of wires?
E-mail me when you get the chance or anyone e-mail if you just may
know where this is at.
Brandon
brandon_towle@h...
88109 From: james kilcullen <whoozey1953@y...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:37pm
Subject: RE: Rubicon or sport
With a mouth that big, she won't get stretch marks around her lips.
OneBdJeep <onebdjeep@c...> wrote:You noticed that too eh? They are so big that they have their own
climate... they are almost always chapped!!!
But she does have a nice set of... hair. (OUCH!!! Sorry honey - you have
purty lips too!!!)
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe West [mailto:joe.west@s...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 1:42 PM
To: BADAZXJ XJArizona; rbales77@y...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Rubicon or sport
Her lips are TOOOOO BIG!
Ewwwwww....
-----Original Message-----
From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:35 AM
To: rbales77@y...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Rubicon or sport
I will trade my jeep for angelina jolie....straight across...... :)
Frank
http://groups.msn.com/BadAzXJ
http://groups.msn.com/badazxj/arizonaundertakers.msnw
>From: "rbales77"
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Rubicon or sport
>Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:19:00 -0000
>
>I have to agree that if the Jeep came with Lora Croft I would have to
>buy that one to. The big question is. Is it better to get a Jeep
>that has no upgrades on it or to get a Rubicon which has everything
>that I would get. The only thing that I would think about changing
>is the lift. Any suggestions
>
>Rob
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________________________ _______________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88110 From: JimSerio <jim@r...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:41pm
Subject: Re: Learn to do it yourself.. if you don't know how; I'd be happy to show you. Was RE: Dealership maintenance
Joe,
I couldn't agree with you more, and I would *love* to do it myself.
I used to perform most of the maintenence on my last truck.
Unfortunately, where I currently live, I am unable to do any work on
my Jeep. If anyone is interesting in loaning me their driveway or
work space, I'd love to do (and learn) the work myself. I also would
like to perform a 2-3" lift but don't have the tools for this.
Maybe a monthly gathering at someone's house/shop where we can all
do maintenence?
Jim
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Joe West" <joe.west@s...> wrote:
> Jim,
>
> The absolute BEST thing you could do is learn to do it yourself.
It is
> EXTREMELY easy... Purchase a factory service manual and if you
don't know
> how to do it yourself... I'd be glad to teach you.
> In fact, I'd be glad to teach anyone who is interested. If there
is enough
> interest; I'll put together a workshop.
>
> The truth is, one of the nicest aspects of Jeep ownership is
learning to do
> it yourself.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Joe West
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JimSerio [mailto:jim@r...]
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:30 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Dealership maintnence
>
>
> Has anyone taken their Jeeps to any of the local dealers for the
30K
> tune-up? What's the cost run on this and what does it include? I'm
> leaning toward Darner since they get such good marks from this
> group, but if anyone else has recommendations, I'd appreciate it.
>
> BTW... I'm considering a dealer as opposed to a mom/pop shop as
I've
> read that some warranty work may require proof of regular
> maintenence. Who better to have those records than a dealer.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
88111 From: Linda <minihummer@w...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:50pm
Subject: Re: Idle Air Control Valve...located on a ZJ?
Brandon,
It is bolted into the throttle body. The TPS is there too. The Idle
Air Control is the larger of the two. Have you replaced the fuel
filter yet? That should be located in front of the gas tank. A
plugged fuel filter can also cause problems.
Linda
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "brandon_towle" <brandon_towle@h...>
wrote:
> CANT W8, you talked to my dad James about the Idle Air Control
> Valve.
> Can you give me a better description on where it is located.
> I am going to try and fix it myself before I head down to Phoenix,
> but behind the throttle body with a couple of wires?
> E-mail me when you get the chance or anyone e-mail if you just may
> know where this is at.
>
> Brandon
> brandon_towle@h...
88112 From: Mitch Woodward <bigwood@c...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 2:02pm
Subject: Re: Extended Warranties
Jim,
$2550 sounds outrageous. The extended warranty on my brother's 2001 Toy
Tacoma 4x4 cost $1150 for an additional 75,000 miles of complete coverage
with $0 deductible. He started his extended warr. with 35,000 miles, so the
coverage is out to 110,000 miles or 4 additional years. They have plans for
out to 6 years from now if you don't drive much. The same warranty on my
dad's 99 F-150 4x4 was $1275 for the additional 75K and 6 years. The
extended warranty for my Ford was about the same, but I traded in my truck
instead. Check with your local credit union to see if they carry the
Pinnacle warranties. I would be very hesitant to spend $2550. They do
require a basic inspection, but nothing major, especially considering that
whatever they find should be under the factory warranty anyway.
Mitch
----- Original Message -----
From: "JimSerio" <jim@r...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:27 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Extended Warranties
> I'm in the process of buying an extended warranty for my 2001 XJ. It
> has 33K on it and a little under a year left on the original 3/36
> warranty. I was considering buying on the Intertnet and so far have
> found 2 places that offer the 7/100 ($50 deductable) for $2550. That
> includes the additional charges for 4x4 and mileage/age of the
> vehicle.
>
> I decided I would call the local 5 star dealerships to see what
> their cost was (read on Google Groups that someone did this in AZ a
> few years ago). Only Pitre was willing to share his costs (and faxed
> them to me). Howevere, even they seem high. It's 2K for the 7/100/
> $50 plus $100 each for 4x4 and over/under 24/36 mileage. Plus he
> added a $100 over that. So $2400. This seems a little high having
> researched warranties on Google Groups. I recall many buying them
> for around $900-$1600 (Maximum care.. same one as I'm looking at).
> Does anyone here know if these costs are about right? I'm tempted to
> give me business to Pitre as the guy there (Joe) was pretty nice. He
> said they they don't go for profit on the warranties, but customer
> loyalty. I just want to make sure this is a good price.
>
> Any advice or info would be appreciated.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
88113 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 2:06pm
Subject: RE: Re: FW: URGENT AZ LEADERSHIP WORKSHOP
Chris this is not an attack or a flame. All I can say about your comments
is that I agree it is very frustrating to deal with the different agencies,
they are used to very little opposition from our side. This is changing (and
I thank everyone that gets involved) and it is kind of funny watching them
learn to deal with us. The time of concessions is long since over. We do not
win every fight, but we are starting to win some. Every time a greenie
proposed a new wilderness area I proposed we drop an existing one. I loved
the meeting in Prescott they proposed a wilderness study area and when I
asked how it would be managed they said as a wilderness area. I pointed out
that this made it an illegal wilderness area as only Congress can create a
wilderness area. After a couple minutes they agreed with me.
My point is we are making gains at this time. This new org. can help that.
Maybe in the near future we can take back some closed areas. CA did it in
the Dunes last year areas closed two years ago are now open per the BLM of
course the Greenies are fighting this in court. Congress is looking at
reworking the endangered species act. We are starting to turn the tide. Now
is not the time to stick your head in the sand.
Sorry this is so long but I feel my time spent in the meetings and writing
letters and making calls MAKES A DIFFERENCE. I wish we could get more to do
it! Jim F. aka Hackle
"I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member" Groucho
Marx
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Lindsey [mailto:azrubi@a...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:52 PM
To: Hackle; tomas2691; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: FW: URGENT AZ LEADERSHIP WORKSHOP
Please don't misunderstand me... This is not an attack.
The reality is that the majority of "users" consider
themselves "individuals". They're not part of a group. They don't
consider themselves as a "Jeeper", "Quader", "Motorcyclist" or whatever.
They're people wanting to go out and have a good time and enjoy
the "outdoors".
"WE" are never going to make the "greenies" take a step back, cuz, they
don't give a sh!t about what "we" want. They're on a mission and we will
never be able to mount a united front to repel them by trying to assemble
people that are just trying to make a living and have a little fun.
So, I ignore them. And I ignore most of you. I know it doesn't seem to
make sense, but if I don't give them or you any special consideration,
then your point of view isn't relevant.
I'm putting on my asbestos underwear, as I assume I'm going to receive
some flames over this. But, the bottom line, in my mind, is that if you
don't take them serious, no one else will. Or, if I'm completely wrong,
we're screwed anyway as the only options and alternatives I've seen
coming out of the OHV community for the last 20 years is concessions. I
for one, am tired of giving "it" up to make other people feel like I'm a
nice guy.
My .02 YMMV
Take care,
Chris
>>>----------------------->
Christopher Lindsey
Union Planters Mortgage
8700 E. Via de Ventura
Suite 150
Scottsdale, AZ 85258
http://www.ChrisLindsey.com
480-951-1422 Ext. 300 Main
623-742-9911 FAX Direct
602-577-5988 Cell
>>>------------------------>
-----Original Message-----
From: "Hackle" <hackle@q...>
To: "tomas2691" <tomasr@a...>, az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:12:56 -0700
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: FW: URGENT AZ LEADERSHIP WORKSHOP
> Roger you are missing a large part of the group that will help us
> while we
> help them. Last time I checked not everyone that is into OHV drives a
> 4-wheel drive. If we rely on only 4 wheel drive owners we are screwed.
> OHV
> covers all the Quads, Motorcycles, buggies, bronco's, Toys, Suzuki,
> sand,
> mud, plus the numerous other SUV's that at least camp. These are the
> type of
> numbers we need to get involved to start making the greenies take a
> step
> back. This is what I mean by one voice and a larger community. Jim F.
>
> "I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member"
> Groucho
> Marx
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tomas2691 [mailto:tomasr@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 4:01 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: FW: URGENT AZ LEADERSHIP WORKSHOP
>
>
> Any idea how this "organization" would relate to the ASA4WDC? I
> though the ASA4WDC was going to try to become that single, state-wide
> voice. Am I missing something?
>
> -Roger
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Hackle" <hackle@q...> wrote:
> > I have sent my registration in (again) This is well worth
> your time on a
> > weekend. If we get a good organization set up the entire OHV
> community would
> > speak with one voice and have the numbers behind it to make it
> stick. I urge
> > everyone that gets involved in the Land Use Meetings and even those
> that do
> > not to join in. I do not know how to make everyone understand how
> important
> > this could be if we put in the effort to get it started. OK off the
> soap
> > box. Jim F. aka Hackle
> >
> > "I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member"
> Groucho
> > Marx
> > Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
88114 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 2:16pm
Subject: Crown King Trail Times
I just wanted to send this message and I or someone else will send it again
before the trip. The trail times are when the group leaves. If you sign up
for my early bird run at 6:00 and show up at 6:05 you will be well behind
the group and probably be aired down and ready when Stu leaves at 7:00. We
will have a lot of vehicles on the trail at the same time and need to be on
time to keep each group separate from the others. Of course everyone wants
to be well ahead of Sharky as we all know how his trips to Crown King end
up. BTW anyone that is an EMT might want to think about joining Sharky's
group:) Jim F. aka Hackle
"I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member" Groucho
Marx
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
88115 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 2:31pm
Subject: [FS] Vendor Items Added
<p>
<font face=Arial>
Hello Members of the AzVJC,<br>
Kirk Sanich has just added some items to the Classified section of the AzVJC Website that may be of
interest to you. To see these items
<a href='http://www.azvjc.org/default.asp?A=X&ID=ForSale/default.asp?C=10'>
Click Here
</a>
or goto the website classifieds and select 'Vendor' from the list.<br>
Thank You,<br><br>
- The AzVJC Website<br><br>
</font>
</p>
88116 From: jetowle2000 <James.Towle@a...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 2:32pm
Subject: Re: Idle Air Control Valve...located on a ZJ?
Linda,
I believe he doesn't know what or where the throttle body is. I
have, just recently, sent him an email trying to explain. Does
anyone have a picture of one on a V8 possibly? (with red paint on
it, and.....) lol
--James
PS - the fuel filter was changed in May along with the pump, I did
it. Could it be that clogged already?
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Linda" <minihummer@w...> wrote:
> Brandon,
>
> It is bolted into the throttle body. The TPS is there too. The
Idle
> Air Control is the larger of the two. Have you replaced the fuel
> filter yet? That should be located in front of the gas tank. A
> plugged fuel filter can also cause problems.
>
> Linda
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "brandon_towle"
<brandon_towle@h...>
> wrote:
> > CANT W8, you talked to my dad James about the Idle Air Control
> > Valve.
> > Can you give me a better description on where it is located.
> > I am going to try and fix it myself before I head down to
Phoenix,
> > but behind the throttle body with a couple of wires?
> > E-mail me when you get the chance or anyone e-mail if you just
may
> > know where this is at.
> >
> > Brandon
> > brandon_towle@h...
88117 From: Mike & Karen Acuna <mkacuna@c...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 2:54pm
Subject: Re: Extended Warranties
Check with your credit union......or find a local credit union and get a
quote from them. They are usually quite a bit less expensive.
Mike
98 ZJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "JimSerio" <jim@r...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:27 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Extended Warranties
> I'm in the process of buying an extended warranty for my 2001 XJ. It
> has 33K on it and a little under a year left on the original 3/36
> warranty. I was considering buying on the Intertnet and so far have
> found 2 places that offer the 7/100 ($50 deductable) for $2550. That
> includes the additional charges for 4x4 and mileage/age of the
> vehicle.
>
> I decided I would call the local 5 star dealerships to see what
> their cost was (read on Google Groups that someone did this in AZ a
> few years ago). Only Pitre was willing to share his costs (and faxed
> them to me). Howevere, even they seem high. It's 2K for the 7/100/
> $50 plus $100 each for 4x4 and over/under 24/36 mileage. Plus he
> added a $100 over that. So $2400. This seems a little high having
> researched warranties on Google Groups. I recall many buying them
> for around $900-$1600 (Maximum care.. same one as I'm looking at).
> Does anyone here know if these costs are about right? I'm tempted to
> give me business to Pitre as the guy there (Joe) was pretty nice. He
> said they they don't go for profit on the warranties, but customer
> loyalty. I just want to make sure this is a good price.
>
> Any advice or info would be appreciated.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
88118 From: jeeper210420 <mtbjumper210@a...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:08pm
Subject: YJ front driveshaft
Anyone have a YJ 4cyl 5spd or 6cyl auto front driveshaft? Mine is a
new corkscrew and I cant see paying a ton of cash for something Im
gonna chage with an engine swap in the future.
88119 From: John Stewart <landuse@u...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:11pm
Subject: Re: Re: FW: URGENT AZ LEADERSHIP WORKSHOP
NOHVCC has been evolving over the years to encompass all aspects fo
motorized recreation.
Other groups are evolving to include all recreation modes that depend
on access to public lands.
One of the problems we face is the image of OHV recreation.
Rockhounds do not consider themselves as "OHV" recreationists.
However, with each route closure, their assess to collections areas
is reduced.
Same goes for the hunters and fishermen. They depend on OHV routes
to get to hunting and fishing areas. When those are lost, so is
their access.
In California, mountain bikers, equestrians, and motorized recreation
interests are forming coalitions to fight more wilderness
designations and to keep routes open. Within the motorized segment,
two-track (4x4 routs) and single-track (motorcycle routes) are being
mapped and documented with a coordinated effort. This was
unthinkable 5 years ago.
Hunting interests are also joining the effort so that they can
protect their routes of travel; many of which are dead-end spurs that
other motorized interests would sacrifice to save a loop route.
Yes, NOHVCC and other recreation groups need to embrace each others
interests and work together to support each other. We may not always
agree; but we need to work together.
At 11:10 AM -0700 7/24/03, Roger Tomas wrote:
>John,
>
>Your point is well taken regarding what the fundamental issue really is.
>However, does that not dictate that the NOHVCC should go beyond
>OHV to include all outdoor sportsman? Or am I reading too much
>into the "OHV" part of the NOHVCC name? Or am I simply
>misinformed?
>
>-Roger
>
>John Stewart wrote:
>
>> Consider this a fill in for Sandee while she attends to personal
>> matters of great interest.....
>>
>> I will say that once differences with mode of transportation are set
>> aside, there is a fundamental issue: access to lands, public or
>> private, for recreation interests.
>>
>> Is there a certain amount of hype in the subject? Yes, but not if
>> you really cared about your recreation opportunities.
>>
>> California has been there done that and lost opportunities. It is a
>> toss-up as to whether Arizona, Nevada or New Mexico are next on the
>> firing line.
>>
>> Consider the Cross Country Travel Management Plan. Consider the
>> pending issues with the Cinders. Consider the State Lands Trust
>> issues.
>>
>> You guys stand to lose a lot if you cannot get ALL recreation
>> interests to at least sing in the same choir with the same sheet of
>> music. Okay, you can be slightly off key and out of sync; but get in
>> the same choir with the same music.
>>
>> Direct flames at me, not Sandee.........
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--
John Stewart
Director, Environmental Affairs,
United Four Wheel Drive Associations, http://www.ufwda.org
Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
Moderator, MUIRNet - Multiple Use Information Resource Network
To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to MUIRNet, send email to john@m....
A fundamental law of public land access is:
Increased habitat designation for threatened and endangered species
is directly proportional to loss of access to public lands.
88120 From: Randy Davis <luvrocks@c...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:16pm
Subject: crown king meals
just a heads up should we find out if we need to get them some money early for a meal deal like we had to last year.they might ok this year as there is the horseshoe thing the week before just a thought!!!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
88121 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:38pm
Subject: RE: Crown King Trail Times
Hey....don't push your time impaired Jeepers back to the 7:00 AM group!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hackle [mailto:hackle@q...]
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 2:16 PM
> To: Az_Vjc
> Subject: [az_vjc] Crown King Trail Times
>
>
> I just wanted to send this message and I or someone else
> will send it again
> before the trip. The trail times are when the group leaves. If you sign up
> for my early bird run at 6:00 and show up at 6:05 you will be well behind
> the group and probably be aired down and ready when Stu leaves at 7:00. We
> will have a lot of vehicles on the trail at the same time and
> need to be on
> time to keep each group separate from the others. Of course everyone wants
> to be well ahead of Sharky as we all know how his trips to Crown King end
> up. BTW anyone that is an EMT might want to think about joining Sharky's
> group:) Jim F. aka Hackle
>
> "I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member" Groucho
> Marx
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
88122 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:38pm
Subject: RE: Re: FW: URGENT AZ LEADERSHIP WORKSHOP
My registration for the workshop went in a few minutes ago.
Come on folks.....I donated a week of my vacation, last fall, to attend a
NOHVCC get together on the east side. Having it over a weekend is a bargain
as far as not having to burn vacation time!
Come on folks.....get your registrations sent in today! Looking forward to
seeing many of my friends there!
Stu
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Stewart [mailto:landuse@u...]
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 3:11 PM
> To: Roger Tomas; John Stewart
> Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: FW: URGENT AZ LEADERSHIP WORKSHOP
>
>
> NOHVCC has been evolving over the years to encompass all aspects fo
> motorized recreation.
>
> Other groups are evolving to include all recreation modes that depend
> on access to public lands.
>
> One of the problems we face is the image of OHV recreation.
> Rockhounds do not consider themselves as "OHV" recreationists.
> However, with each route closure, their assess to collections areas
> is reduced.
>
> Same goes for the hunters and fishermen. They depend on OHV routes
> to get to hunting and fishing areas. When those are lost, so is
> their access.
>
> In California, mountain bikers, equestrians, and motorized recreation
> interests are forming coalitions to fight more wilderness
> designations and to keep routes open. Within the motorized segment,
> two-track (4x4 routs) and single-track (motorcycle routes) are being
> mapped and documented with a coordinated effort. This was
> unthinkable 5 years ago.
>
> Hunting interests are also joining the effort so that they can
> protect their routes of travel; many of which are dead-end spurs that
> other motorized interests would sacrifice to save a loop route.
>
> Yes, NOHVCC and other recreation groups need to embrace each others
> interests and work together to support each other. We may not always
> agree; but we need to work together.
>
>
> At 11:10 AM -0700 7/24/03, Roger Tomas wrote:
> >John,
> >
> >Your point is well taken regarding what the fundamental issue really is.
> >However, does that not dictate that the NOHVCC should go beyond
> >OHV to include all outdoor sportsman? Or am I reading too much
> >into the "OHV" part of the NOHVCC name? Or am I simply
> >misinformed?
> >
> >-Roger
> >
> >John Stewart wrote:
> >
> >> Consider this a fill in for Sandee while she attends to personal
> >> matters of great interest.....
> >>
> >> I will say that once differences with mode of transportation are set
> >> aside, there is a fundamental issue: access to lands, public or
> >> private, for recreation interests.
> >>
> >> Is there a certain amount of hype in the subject? Yes, but not if
> >> you really cared about your recreation opportunities.
> >>
> >> California has been there done that and lost opportunities. It is a
> >> toss-up as to whether Arizona, Nevada or New Mexico are next on the
> >> firing line.
> >>
> >> Consider the Cross Country Travel Management Plan. Consider the
> >> pending issues with the Cinders. Consider the State Lands Trust
> >> issues.
> >>
> >> You guys stand to lose a lot if you cannot get ALL recreation
> >> interests to at least sing in the same choir with the same sheet of
> >> music. Okay, you can be slightly off key and out of sync; but get in
> >> the same choir with the same music.
> >>
> >> Direct flames at me, not Sandee.........
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> --
> John Stewart
> Director, Environmental Affairs,
> United Four Wheel Drive Associations, http://www.ufwda.org
> Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
> Moderator, MUIRNet - Multiple Use Information Resource Network
>
> To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to MUIRNet, send email to john@m....
>
> A fundamental law of public land access is:
>
> Increased habitat designation for threatened and endangered species
> is directly proportional to loss of access to public lands.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
88123 From: Dan Dennis <dannpegg@c...>
Date: Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:34pm
Subject: Re: FW: URGENT AZ LEADERSHIP WORKSHOP
I just faxed my registration in today and got a response back saying
they got it. I'll be there...I'll be driving from Lake Havasu the
Friday night before. Anyone got a couch or a dog house I can curl up
on/in??? I'd rather spend my money on Jeep stuff than on a hotel room.
AZ Treadhead (AKA BRUZR's Daddy)
97 TJ (BRUZR) in Lake Havasu City
PS- We finally got some rain this morning for an hour or so off and
on. Now it's just MUGGY out!!!
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> My registration for the workshop went in a few minutes ago.
>
> Come on folks.....I donated a week of my vacation, last fall, to
attend a
> NOHVCC get together on the east side. Having it over a weekend is
a bargain
> as far as not having to burn vacation time!
>
> Come on folks.....get your registrations sent in today! Looking
forward to
> seeing many of my friends there!
>
> Stu
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John Stewart [mailto:landuse@u...]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 3:11 PM
> > To: Roger Tomas; John Stewart
> > Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: FW: URGENT AZ LEADERSHIP WORKSHOP
> >
> >
> > NOHVCC has been evolving over the years to encompass all aspects
fo
> > motorized recreation.
> >
> > Other groups are evolving to include all recreation modes that
depend
> > on access to public lands.
> >
> > One of the problems we face is the image of OHV recreation.
> > Rockhounds do not consider themselves as "OHV" recreationists.
> > However, with each route closure, their assess to collections
areas
> > is reduced.
> >
> > Same goes for the hunters and fishermen. They depend on OHV
routes
> > to get to hunting and fishing areas. When those are lost, so is
> > their access.
> >
> > In California, mountain bikers, equestrians, and motorized
recreation
> > interests are forming coalitions to fight more wilderness
> > designations and to keep routes open. Within the motorized
segment,
> > two-track (4x4 routs) and single-track (motorcycle routes) are
being
> > mapped and documented with a coordinated effort. This was
> > unthinkable 5 years ago.
> >
> > Hunting interests are also joining the effort so that they can
> > protect their routes of travel; many of which are dead-end spurs
that
> > other motorized interests would sacrifice to save a loop route.
> >
> > Yes, NOHVCC and other recreation groups need to embrace each
others
> > interests and work together to support each other. We may not
always
> > agree; but we need to work together.
> >
> >
> > At 11:10 AM -0700 7/24/03, Roger Tomas wrote:
> > >John,
> > >
> > >Your point is well taken regarding what the fundamental issue
really is.
> > >However, does that not dictate that the NOHVCC should go beyond
> > >OHV to include all outdoor sportsman? Or am I reading too much
> > >into the "OHV" part of the NOHVCC name? Or am I simply
> > >misinformed?
> > >
> > >-Roger
> > >
> > >John Stewart wrote:
> > >
> > >> Consider this a fill in for Sandee while she attends to
personal
> > >> matters of great interest.....
> > >>
> > >> I will say that once differences with mode of transportation
are set
> > >> aside, there is a fundamental issue: access to lands, public
or
> > >> private, for recreation interests.
> > >>
> > >> Is there a certain amount of hype in the subject? Yes, but
not if
> > >> you really cared about your recreation opportunities.
> > >>
> > >> California has been there done that and lost opportunities.
It is a
> > >> toss-up as to whether Arizona, Nevada or New Mexico are next
on the
> > >> firing line.
> > >>
> > >> Consider the Cross Country Travel Management Plan. Consider
the
> > >> pending issues with the Cinders. Consider the State Lands
Trust
> > >> issues.
> > >>
> > >> You guys stand to lose a lot if you cannot get ALL recreation
> > >> interests to at least sing in the same choir with the same
sheet of
> > >> music. Okay, you can be slightly off key and out of sync;
but get in
> > >> the same choir with the same music.
> > >>
> > >> Direct flames at me, not Sandee.........
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > --
> > John Stewart
> > Director, Environmental Affairs,
> > United Four Wheel Drive Associations, http://www.ufwda.org
> > Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
> > Moderator, MUIRNet - Multiple Use Information Resource Network
> >
> > To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE to MUIRNet, send email to john@m...
> >
> > A fundamental law of public land access is:
> >
> > Increased habitat designation for threatened and endangered
species
> > is directly proportional to loss of access to public lands.
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >