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Erich
08-30-2008, 08:23 PM
I had a thread just dissappear on me. Im not even gonna talk about what it was about, that story has been beat to death, as well as resolved.
But, did anyone else ever have this happen? Do you agree with a moderator just pulling a whole thread? It was a 7 page thread, some agreed with me, some didnt. It did get heated, but IMO nothing to bad.
I closed it on my own to stop the drama.
Why would they just erase the thread like it didnt even happen?
Anyone?

Number 7
08-30-2008, 08:41 PM
Join the club!!!:mickey:

FrenchChili
08-30-2008, 08:47 PM
Someone has Jedi powers

chopped7
08-30-2008, 08:51 PM
i don't know about deleting threads but i was pretty mad about the last one that got closed[mad as hell]. this board has been pretty quiet all day and finally something comes up that i have an opinion on. i type out a long, well thought out reply and even proof read it. i hit reply and the damn thread was closed. what a waste of my time to try to contribute to the board. i think threads get closed without reason sometimes. maybe they get deleted too. i don't know. are you sure the one you're looking for isn't in general and you're looking for it in off topic.

i get that airpark is a forum sponsor but this is also a public forum. a thread about inferior service by desert rat would have gone on for days. you could probably even get away with personal threats to desert rat employees or managemant.

i'm sure ap has made waaaaaaay more money from jeep sales off this board than their sponsorship costs them. if someone has an issue, they should be able to air it out as long as the zero tolerance rules are followed. that's just my opinion.

Erich
08-30-2008, 08:59 PM
i don't know about deleting threads but i was pretty mad about the last one that got closed[mad as hell]. this board has been pretty quiet all day and finally something comes up that i have an opinion on. i type out a long, well thought out reply and even proof read it. i hit reply and the damn thread was closed. what a waste of my time to try to contribute to the board. i think threads get closed without reason sometimes. maybe they get deleted too. i don't know. are you sure the one you're looking for isn't in general and you're looking for it in off topic.

i get that airpark is a forum sponsor but this is also a public forum. a thread about inferior service by desert rat would have gone on for days. you could probably even get away with personal threats to desert rat employees or managemant.

i'm sure ap has made waaaaaaay more money from jeep sales off this board than their sponsorship costs them. if someone has an issue, they should be able to air it out as long as the zero tolerance rules are followed. that's just my opinion.

Thats the exact thread I was talking about. Look at my profile, at all threads I started, that one isnt there.
Guess it never happened....
Was it the Men in Black?
LMAO

motomech
08-30-2008, 09:02 PM
They "Flashy thinged" us all!!!!!!!!:osama:

ademster
08-30-2008, 09:08 PM
fing gay..

Erich
08-30-2008, 09:13 PM
They "Flashy thinged" us all!!!!!!!!:osama:

huh?

motomech
08-30-2008, 09:15 PM
Thats a perfect Men in black reference.....the flashy thing that makes you forget you saw anything.....from the movie????!!!!!

Erich
08-30-2008, 09:18 PM
Thats a perfect Men in black reference.....the flashy thing that makes you forget you saw anything.....from the movie????!!!!!

DUH, MY BAD!!
Dont know how I missed that..

89grand
08-30-2008, 09:34 PM
It sucks, but I don't know of any board that doesn't put potential money over ethics.

I've pretty much given up completely on being able to discuss issues on any board if money could be lost. Perhaps I'm jumping the gun, but I would assume the same takes place here. At least I won't pay money to be censored, over someone that pays more than me.

In fact, the whole concept of shutting down a thread against Airpark, makes me totally leary of them. I will never deal with them until I hear a solid response from them regarding the original complaint. And if I get banned for this... so be it.

ademster
08-30-2008, 09:34 PM
your pre-occupied thinking about the special events that have gone on today...

Erich
08-30-2008, 09:47 PM
your pre-occupied thinking about the special events that have gone on today...

LMAO!
If by special you mean sitting in front of my laptop (between washing my jeep and cleaning the Garage) typing more than I have in years. Then closing the thread on a good note. Go to the bathroom, and voila it never happened.
Than yea, there was some special events..lol

Henthorn
08-30-2008, 10:06 PM
If a post has nothing to do with wheeling content, or general help to this forum, I, 100% agree with deleting it.

I posted that I agreed with delting the thread(but I only agree with deleting posts) such as the assnine comments made by Erich on the Jeep Jamboree thread that had nothing to do with the thread title, nor general relevance to the topic.

His posts were regarding Jason PMing him. Why the hell would you start posting crap on another unrelated thread that has the interest of others at hand(people attending the jamboree)??

Erich
08-30-2008, 10:11 PM
If a post has nothing to do with wheeling content, or general help to this forum, I, 100% agree with deleting it.

I posted that I agreed with delting the thread(but I only agree with deleting posts) such as the assnine comments made by Erich on the Jeep Jamboree thread that had nothing to do with the thread title, nor general relevance to the topic.

His posts were regarding Jason PMing him. Why the hell would you start posting crap on another unrelated thread that has the interest of others at hand(people attending the jamboree)??

Because he said I crossed the line, so I was showing him what crossing the line really was.
PS, I edited my comments off his thread, and apologized to him in my last post on my thread (before it was deleted).

Henthorn
08-30-2008, 10:17 PM
Deleted: Uncalled for post.

Sorry

04jeeptj
08-30-2008, 10:58 PM
I agree.. BUT... This is Joe's web site. He makes the money, he owns the computers, he is in total control of what stays and what goes... NOT MATTER WHAT... Some dont like it, some have created another site without off topic for this reason. But if Joe wants it gone.. Its gone.. I have posted how I feel about it in the past. Most of the time while Whiskey was in my hand, tonight its Wild Turkey and coke.. :P

But end the end this is Joe's website. He are a guest of his here.

If people dont like it they will complain and go else where. But such is life.

Im not saying its right or wrong. just that there are other powers in control.


EDIT: I voted NO!!

RokNRich
08-30-2008, 11:14 PM
What did I miss ?

:)

DesertX04
08-30-2008, 11:38 PM
What did I miss ?

:)

I think you missed the whining. I started reading but moved on too quick to know fer sure.

89grand
08-30-2008, 11:48 PM
But end the end this is Joe's website. He are a guest of his here.

It depends. If people pay money to be here, they are more than just "guests".

It's kind of like me selling a product and you buy it, then I say that I'm just letting you borrow it.:)

Besides, most people create websites to make money more so than to be nice to complete strangers.:)

Jdemonto
08-30-2008, 11:54 PM
Joe really does not own the azvjc, he just admin's the site and takes care of it for us. Joe is not here to make money, if he was this would be just like the www.jk-forum.com. We mostly all pay to be here and we all benefit from goods/services and a great knowledge base. Every few months the drama kicks up a few notches and we all move on at the end of the day.

Jason

motomech
08-30-2008, 11:54 PM
Its like selling you a extended warranty and then charging you money when you bring it in to be fixed

Jdemonto
08-30-2008, 11:56 PM
Its like selling you a extended warranty and then charging you money when you bring it in to be fixed

I am not exactly sur how you came up with that analogy:osama:

Jason

motomech
08-30-2008, 11:59 PM
I'm sure some people will get it.

89grand
08-30-2008, 11:59 PM
Its like selling you a extended warranty and then charging you money when you bring it in to be fixed

Luckily I bought my Jeep used so there is no warranty BS to get shafted by. As it sits, if I break it, I fix it...FTMFW!

Jdemonto
08-31-2008, 12:00 AM
I'm sure some people will get it.

No they may not since your refering to a guy that never bought one:drummer:

Jason

motomech
08-31-2008, 12:01 AM
Give it up jason

Jdemonto
08-31-2008, 12:04 AM
Give it up jason

Give what up? I completly understand your lack of correct info, that thread was full of BS and mis-information like many forum posts.


Thats why I canceled my extended 100K warranty, My jeep is too modified to have warranty, esp when I was dreaming of a 5.7 swap.

Jason

motomech
08-31-2008, 12:08 AM
Well to get back on the topic of this thread.I'd be able to look up what warranty he had is it was still there.

89grand
08-31-2008, 12:08 AM
I'm sure some people will get it.

'If' that one posters story 'is' true, then yeah, I get it.

I really do despise car dealers for the most part. It is the only legal theft I'm aware of in the consumer world.

Now, that's just a general feeling of mine, not saying Airpark are thieves necessarily.:)

motomech
08-31-2008, 12:11 AM
And just to add im not putting the blame on just one dealer or brand i pretty much think they are all the same

Jdemonto
08-31-2008, 12:17 AM
And just to add im not putting the blame on just one dealer or brand i pretty much think they are all the same

I used to think the same way until I starting working at one. Now I can clearly say that not all dealers are the same and some can be different. Obviously you have had issues at some point with a dealer and I used to avoid them like the plague! If I left Airpark for any reason I would not work for ANY other dealer.

Jason

Jdemonto
08-31-2008, 12:21 AM
'If' that one posters story 'is' true, then yeah, I get it.

I really do despise car dealers for the most part. It is the only legal theft I'm aware of in the consumer world.

Now, that's just a general feeling of mine, not saying Airpark are thieves necessarily.:)

The auto business has done a great job creating this kind of image. Now days they are working harder than ever to please consumers, its really to late as most of the population can not really trust one. Heck, I really do not trust any other dealer at all. I am scared to bring my VW in at the VW store, I rather just work on it my self!

Jason

89grand
08-31-2008, 12:53 AM
The auto business has done a great job creating this kind of image. Now days they are working harder than ever to please consumers, its really to late as most of the population can not really trust one. Heck, I really do not trust any other dealer at all. I am scared to bring my VW in at the VW store, I rather just work on it my self!

Jason


I admit, I've never personally been screwed by a car dealer because I go in knowing too much about what I'm buying, what I should pay for it, what warranty I don't want, what finance rate I should pay, what games I will not allow the finance group to play, what games I will not allow the salesman to play (up charges for BS window etching, window tint, market value adjustments) etc. I especially like the charges for window etching. I always tell them to take it off after they try to charge me for it, and they always say they can't, and I always say, well that's your problem, I'm not paying for it. The same with window tint. I also refuse to drive a car off the lot with the dealers name stickers on my car.

Now, I've heard of, and directly have known so many people that have been screwed it's insane. Now, some will say it's their own fault, and to some degree it is, but I still can't believe that dealer theft is actually legal.

Jdemonto
08-31-2008, 01:11 AM
I admit, I've never personally been screwed by a car dealer because I go in knowing too much about what I'm buying, what I should pay for it, what warranty I don't want, what finance rate I should pay, what games I will not allow the finance group to play, what games I will not allow the salesman to play (up charges for BS window etching, window tint, market value adjustments) etc. I especially like the charges for window etching. I always tell them to take it off after they try to charge me for it, and they always say they can't, and I always say, well that's your problem, I'm not paying for it. The same with window tint. I also refuse to drive a car off the lot with the dealers name stickers on my car.

Now, I've heard of, and directly have known so many people that have been screwed it's insane. Now, some will say it's their own fault, and to some degree it is, but I still can't believe that dealer theft is actually legal.

I can answer Dealer theft.....

Is it they paid more than they should have?

Is it he dealer held a gun of guilt to the consumers head?

Is it theft becuase the dealer made too much money or more than the should have?

I always get a kick out of wht people think is theft. If someone stole something from me that is theft. If I go into a store or dealer and leave with a product and I feel like I paid too much..Shame on me for not doing my homework!


Is it theft because the price on the window is not the price your willing to pay?

Is it theft because the dealer paid $100 and sold the car for more than $101?

I just like to know what thefts dealers are commiting beside the one in Tuscon that actualy was a crime they were commiting...even though even they did not really commit a theft.

Jason

89grand
08-31-2008, 02:00 AM
I can answer Dealer theft.....

Is it they paid more than they should have?

Is it he dealer held a gun of guilt to the consumers head?

Is it theft becuase the dealer made too much money or more than the should have?

I always get a kick out of wht people think is theft. If someone stole something from me that is theft. If I go into a store or dealer and leave with a product and I feel like I paid too much..Shame on me for not doing my homework!


Is it theft because the price on the window is not the price your willing to pay?

Is it theft because the dealer paid $100 and sold the car for more than $101?

I just like to know what thefts dealers are commiting beside the one in Tuscon that actualy was a crime they were commiting...even though even they did not really commit a theft.

Jason


That's BS and you know it. EVERY DEALER on the planet has ONE goal in mind, and that is to take maximum advantage of every customer they can.

Now the cop out, that you even just used is that if the consumer hasn't done hours and hours of research they are fair game, and to me, that's most of the problem with you guys.

Giving someone $10k on a trade in that you'll attempt to flip for $16k without touching it, plus the BS add ons, plus the worthless over priced extended warranty, plus the service rip offs, plus the grossly inflated parts department prices are what I'm talking about.

Let's take the Dodge dealer Bill Luke, they quoted me $4.79 per spark plug for my Hemi Magnum R/T, plus $300 for the install of the 16 plugs for a grand total of $376.64. I bought the EXACT same Champion plugs at Checker Auto for $1.59 each and installed them myself for $25.44 and one hour of my time.

Not even going to make an issue out of the ridiculous labor charge, but THREE times the price for the plugs vs Checker Auto? Three times, and they use more of those plugs than Checker Auto does I'm sure. I bet they pay about $.50 each, and sell them for $4.79...and you're down with that I take it.

Anyway, I doesn't matter much because I'm probably THE model consumer you do not want in your dealership, so it works out best for both of us if I stay away because we would certainly have a battle on our hands.:)

Jdemonto
08-31-2008, 02:24 AM
LOL, I deal with multi million dollar Ceo's not much of a money making opportunity there......LOL

Our goal is not take advantage of anyone, Our goal is to sell vehicles at a fair price, there are a thousand dealers in town...not like you can charge what you want on every car, we are in the most competitive market place.
My statements are from my experince in the auto business, Not BS

If a dealer is charging X and you can buy it somewhere else for Y, your a consumer and have a choice just like I have a choice where I shop. I don't care what the store bought the product for, in fact they should make a profit. I just don't have the time to shop arround for the very best price on everything I buy life is far too short. I do and will shop arround for larger items.

Jason


That's BS and you know it. EVERY DEALER on the planet has ONE goal in mind, and that is to take maximum advantage of every customer they can.

Now the cop out, that you even just used is that if the consumer hasn't done hours and hours of research they are fair game, and to me, that's most of the problem with you guys.

Giving someone $10k on a trade in that you'll attempt to flip for $16k without touching it, plus the BS add ons, plus the worthless over priced extended warranty, plus the service rip offs, plus the grossly inflated parts department prices are what I'm talking about.

Let's take the Dodge dealer Bill Luke, they quoted me $4.79 per spark plug for my Hemi Magnum R/T, plus $300 for the install of the 16 plugs for a grand total of $376.64. I bought the EXACT same Champion plugs at Checker Auto for $1.59 each and installed them myself for $25.44 and one hour of my time.

Not even going to make an issue out of the ridiculous labor charge, but THREE times the price for the plugs vs Checker Auto? Three times, and they use more of those plugs than Checker Auto does I'm sure. I bet they pay about $.50 each, and sell them for $4.79...and you're down with that I take it.

Anyway, I doesn't matter much because I'm probably THE model consumer you do not want in your dealership, so it works out best for both of us if I stay away because we would certainly have a battle on our hands.:)

Bilt4Comfort
08-31-2008, 05:06 AM
Can someone fetch me a peanut butter sandwich?

knockonit
08-31-2008, 08:08 AM
:beatdeadhorse5:

Wayco
08-31-2008, 08:15 AM
I like turtles too......

ademster
08-31-2008, 08:54 AM
Can someone fetch me a peanut butter sandwich?


After making it for you and walking back to the computer I got hungry..

sorry but here you go BFT

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2349/2173405092_f70d9375a6.jpg?v=0

Erich
08-31-2008, 09:08 AM
I didnt want this thread to be a continuation of my last thread. That was resolved. Just thought it was crazy that it was deleted. I dont think any thread should be unless its vulgar or offensive.
I almost feel like that guy last year on you tube screaming "Leave Brittney alone".. But Leave Jason alone.lol He is a stand up guy, thats the only reason he got thrown into that other mess. He is a salesman and he got involved MONTHS after the sale, and got it resolved in 24hrs. Granted, they should of taken care of it before it even came to this forum. Either way, Jason remedied the situation.
I was wrong yesterday in ever even typing his name 1 time in my last post, and I stand corrected.
Think about this, who even remembers there last auto salesmans name 6months after the sale? I know I dont. I have bought 3 vehicles in the last 4 years at the same dealer (Earnhardts). Different salesperson each time, and I coiuldnt tell you any of there names. Couldnt even give a vague description to a police sketch artist. Jason being involved this long after the sale should make us all realize how lucky we are here. My next vehicle WILL be purchased from him. Who knows when that will be,lol.
Ok that being said, its still BS that the thread got deleted.
lol

MisfitTom138
08-31-2008, 09:33 AM
I agree deleteing was the wrong way to go.

Henthorn
08-31-2008, 11:45 AM
I didnt want this thread to be a continuation of my last thread. That was resolved. Just thought it was crazy that it was deleted. I dont think any thread should be unless its vulgar or offensive.
I almost feel like that guy last year on you tube screaming "Leave Brittney alone".. But Leave Jason alone.lol He is a stand up guy, thats the only reason he got thrown into that other mess. He is a salesman and he got involved MONTHS after the sale, and got it resolved in 24hrs. Granted, they should of taken care of it before it even came to this forum. Either way, Jason remedied the situation.
I was wrong yesterday in ever even typing his name 1 time in my last post, and I stand corrected.
Think about this, who even remembers there last auto salesmans name 6months after the sale? I know I dont. I have bought 3 vehicles in the last 4 years at the same dealer (Earnhardts). Different salesperson each time, and I coiuldnt tell you any of there names. Couldnt even give a vague description to a police sketch artist. Jason being involved this long after the sale should make us all realize how lucky we are here. My next vehicle WILL be purchased from him. Who knows when that will be,lol.
Ok that being said, its still BS that the thread got deleted.
lol

Very well said Erich! :fashizzle:

Maybe we all just need to go wheeling to take the stress out!

Erich
08-31-2008, 11:48 AM
Very well said Erich! :fashizzle:

Maybe we all just need to go wheeling to take the stress out!

I agree!
I'm down for wheeling anytime!

djui5
08-31-2008, 01:14 PM
He is a stand up guy, thats the only reason he got thrown into that other mess.


Just wanna say that I applaud your post. Takes a man to stand up and say the right thing, and you did. Takes an even bigger man to recognize when he did something "improperly" and admit it, then apologize.

Well said my friend :)

chopped7
08-31-2008, 02:46 PM
I can answer Dealer theft.....

Is it they paid more than they should have?

Is it he dealer held a gun of guilt to the consumers head?

Is it theft becuase the dealer made too much money or more than the should have?

I always get a kick out of wht people think is theft. If someone stole something from me that is theft. If I go into a store or dealer and leave with a product and I feel like I paid too much..Shame on me for not doing my homework!


Is it theft because the price on the window is not the price your willing to pay?

Is it theft because the dealer paid $100 and sold the car for more than $101?

I just like to know what thefts dealers are commiting beside the one in Tuscon that actualy was a crime they were commiting...even though even they did not really commit a theft.

Jason

it's not theft but everyone in sales tries to upsell and get the most out of every sale. they try to upsell in the drive thru[fries with that, supersize, what kind of drinkyou want when you didn't order one, etc.] the auto industry is just the shadiest. often, they make deals with desparate people or people that don't know any better. there's a sucker born every minute and they all need cars. that's how they make money. if dealers sold cars for what they paid for them, no money would be made. they would be broke. they may show you their invoice that they are only making 200 bux on the deal and the salesman is getting no commision because they want you as a customer. then they stick you with a bs security system, 1000 dollars to scotch gaurd the upholstry, an extended warranty they will never honor and whatever their other tricks of the trade are.

the cars sales industry has been around 100+ years and they have it down to a science how to take advantage of people.

i'm not talking about airpark in particular, they may be the exception to the rule. the goal of most auto dealers is to get every dollar they can out of any given customer. i've walked out of many dealerships for trying to bs me for a few hundred dollars over the deal i wanted and felt happy to tell them to shove it up their *** when they try to give me the deal i want on the way out the door.

i've found it's best to go to a dealer with your own financing set up and not buy anything extra, even when they say you have to buy their additional crap in order to buy the car. it's a lot easier if you don't have to deal with a trade in as well. just negotiate the final price, not a monthly payment. if you eliminate all the factors you can get screwed over by, the car buying experience isn't all that bad.

kjflowers
08-31-2008, 03:54 PM
:aagh:

This thread should be deleted. . ..














Relax It was a joke.

Erich
08-31-2008, 05:24 PM
:aagh:

This thread should be deleted. . ..














Relax It was a joke.

LMAO!

Jdemonto
08-31-2008, 06:15 PM
:aagh:

This thread should be deleted. . ..




Relax It was a joke.


Jim where have you been?

Jason

jperez
08-31-2008, 07:55 PM
I used to think the same way until I starting working at one. Now I can clearly say that not all dealers are the same and some can be different. Obviously you have had issues at some point with a dealer and I used to avoid them like the plague! If I left Airpark for any reason I would not work for ANY other dealer.

Jason

LOL!!!! some people say that about marriage! after the 8th or 9th time!!

Jdemonto
08-31-2008, 08:44 PM
LOL!!!! some people say that about marriage! after the 8th or 9th time!!

LOL, I will not for any ammount of money ever work at another dealer......


My wife will be out of nursing school in 4 years and after that I will start my own Jeep related business

Jason

Henthorn
08-31-2008, 09:08 PM
LOL, I will not for any ammount of money ever work at another dealer......


My wife will be out of nursing school in 4 years and after that I will start my own Jeep related business

Jason

Need a computer or personal security guy? Im availible for contract :D

Jdemonto
08-31-2008, 09:12 PM
Need a computer or personal security guy? Im availible for contract :D

LOL, I will for sure need one!!! I have ideas and always great ones with very litle capital to back them up! With the wife making more $$$$ it would give me the time and capital needed plus I will start up 2 years before leaving the auto business so I have a head start.

Jason

kjflowers
08-31-2008, 09:22 PM
Jim where have you been?

Jason
Here and there I am currently in Fontana, CA

Jdemonto
08-31-2008, 09:23 PM
Here and there I am currently in Fontana, CA

Fontana.....I hope your packin

Jason

chopped7
08-31-2008, 10:32 PM
Fontana.....I hope your packin

Jason

and sportin' your dale jr. shirt. boring race though. it always is.

djui5
08-31-2008, 11:58 PM
Fontana.....I hope your packin

Jason

Seriously. I used to live out there. Meth much? :mickey:

militiakrawler
09-01-2008, 12:37 AM
I can answer Dealer theft.....

Is it they paid more than they should have?

Is it he dealer held a gun of guilt to the consumers head?

Is it theft because the dealer made too much money or more than the should have?

I always get a kick out of wht people think is theft. If someone stole something from me that is theft. If I go into a store or dealer and leave with a product and I feel like I paid too much..Shame on me for not doing my homework!


Is it theft because the price on the window is not the price your willing to pay?

Is it theft because the dealer paid $100 and sold the car for more than $101?

I just like to know what thefts dealers are committing beside the one in Tuscon that actually was a crime they were commiting...even though even they did not really commit a theft.

Jason

Agree

I side with free market principles on this subject.
As long as there is no law being broke, the seller has the RIGHT to sell their product for as much as they can.

Think of it this way, the seller "wants" to sell a wigit that cost him ten dollars to make for one million dollars. The buyer "wants" to get that wigit for free.
The buyer will not buy the wigit for one million dollars, so in order to sell his wigit the seller will lower his price as little as need to effect a sale.

On the other hand the seller will not give away the wigit for free. So in order to procure the wigit the buyer will come up in the price as little as need to obtain it.

When the price comes to a figure that both parties can live with then the sale is made. Freely.


Sorry, but I read alot of material from the Ludwig Von Mises Institute and it annoys me greatly that some people think that they are entitled to someone else's labor at the price of their choosing.

Not bashing anyone in particular, just generalizing.:):fashizzle:


edit: as for deleting threads, i voted yes but only in rare circumstanses like when a thread has become an avenue to bash a member on the forum.

Jdemonto
09-01-2008, 01:02 AM
Agree

I side with free market principles on this subject.
As long as there is no law being broke, the seller has the RIGHT to sell their product for as much as they can.

Think of it this way, the seller "wants" to sell a wigit that cost him ten dollars to make for one million dollars. The buyer "wants" to get that wigit for free.
The buyer will not buy the wigit for one million dollars, so in order to sell his wigit the seller will lower his price as little as need to effect a sale.

On the other hand the seller will not give away the wigit for free. So in order to procure the wigit the buyer will come up in the price as little as need to obtain it.

When the price comes to a figure that both parties can live with then the sale is made. Freely.


Sorry, but I read alot of material from the Ludwig Von Mises Institute and it annoys me greatly that some people think that they are entitled to someone else's labor at the price of their choosing.

Not bashing anyone in particular, just generalizing.:):fashizzle:


edit: as for deleting threads, i voted yes but only in rare circumstanses like when a thread has become an avenue to bash a member on the forum.

WOW, great response I could have not said it better...I guess people just expect things for free

89grand
09-01-2008, 06:24 AM
WOW, great response I could have not said it better...I guess people just expect things for free

No, I really don't believe anyone expects a car for free.

What they don't expect is the following:

1. Getting completely ripped off on their trade in (your 4 year old car with 45k miles is "high mileage", plus it's a POS that we'll have to sell at auction, but the 1 year old car that we're trying to sell you with 25k is low miles and it's mint).
2. Being asked to pay beyond value for the car (much harder for the consumer to determine on used cars).
3. Getting raped on the finance charges (the dealer adding a point or two for themselves above the banks rate).
4. Being rooked into putting down payments that the buyer cannot afford (have witnessed this numerous times)
5. Charged for every BS thing under the sun i.e., window etching, window tint, security systems etc.
6. Getting raped for service.
7. Getting lied to about your ability to cancel crap like extended warranties.

What I'm saying here is that while I'm not dumb enough to get screwed by the above, every dealer I've ever dealt with attempted it. And for every attempt that failed, like in my case, 50 others succeeded.

Sure, a person can charge (put in price) for a widget, but most people NEED a car, and they more often than not need financing, and THAT is when the BS hits the rev limiter. It's not the car price as much as all the other "hidden" BS that pisses me off.

I always have to start to leave the lot before they quite attempting to screw me....and that, that alone is my issue with car dealers. They are never satisfied with making a few bucks and making the buyer happy. It only happens against their will.

Please note, that while I'm arguing this point, I'm not suggesting that Airpark is an offender (although I'd bet they are, because ALL dealers are this way), I'm just saying how dealers are. In fact, I'll attempt to buy my next car from them to see for myself.:)

My personal last two car purchases went well in the end, but I went in all aggressive right off the bat, to establish the fact that I knew what was up. If you don't do that...God help you.

Joe West
09-01-2008, 07:48 AM
Hi Gang,

If a thread has "gone south" and I can't find any redeeming value in it; I will delete it. If a thread has gone south and I think there is useful information in it, I will close it but not delete it.

Generally... I try not to delete any threads unless the person who started the thread asks me to OR if the thread has turned into a drama-queen thread.

I know there are people on this forum who really like the drama... but honestly, drama only makes taking care of this forum more difficult... I get dozens of PMs from people who are upset... I end up having to actually READ the drama post to see what went wrong, who was at fault, etc. Does it make sense that I'd prefer to use my special "flashy thingy" to simply make the problem go away? Leaving a drama thread around when it has little or no redeeming quality simply makes my job harder because people still read the CLOSED thread and then start up a new thread to continue the drama. I know everyone here has seen this happen.. hopefully you can understand even if you don't agree with my use of the flashy thingy.

Please... everyone look this way...

http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22679&stc=1&d=1220276892

Wayco
09-01-2008, 08:38 AM
I like turtles, but please don't make me work in the post office..... going postal usually happens late in the summer.

brian lujan
09-01-2008, 09:30 AM
yes, in the for sale section all the stuff that sold to clean it up a bit.

My Green Jeep
09-01-2008, 09:33 AM
Hi Gang,

If a thread has "gone south" and I can't find any redeeming value in it; I will delete it. If a thread has gone south and I think there is useful information in it, I will close it but not delete it.
Generally... I try not to delete any threads unless the person who started the thread asks me to OR if the thread has turned into a drama-queen thread.

I know there are people on this forum who really like the drama... but honestly, drama only makes taking care of this forum more difficult... I get dozens of PMs from people who are upset... I end up having to actually READ the drama post to see what went wrong, who was at fault, etc. Does it make sense that I'd prefer to use my special "flashy thingy" to simply make the problem go away? Leaving a drama thread around when it has little or no redeeming quality simply makes my job harder because people still read the CLOSED thread and then start up a new thread to continue the drama. I know everyone here has seen this happen.. hopefully you can understand even if you don't agree with my use of the flashy thingy.

Please... everyone look this way...

http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22679&stc=1&d=1220276892

X2....
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg207/angelintheruf2/Graphics%20to%20share/Congrats/applaud.gif

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa4/purples_photo_bucket/bravo_thumb.gif

My Green Jeep
09-01-2008, 09:34 AM
I like frogs... and... and... wowwwww... pretty red light...

ummm... what were we talking about....

Jdemonto
09-01-2008, 10:40 AM
No, I really don't believe anyone expects a car for free.

What they don't expect is the following:

1. Getting completely ripped off on their trade in (your 4 year old car with 45k miles is "high mileage", plus it's a POS that we'll have to sell at auction, but the 1 year old car that we're trying to sell you with 25k is low miles and it's mint).
2. Being asked to pay beyond value for the car (much harder for the consumer to determine on used cars).
3. Getting raped on the finance charges (the dealer adding a point or two for themselves above the banks rate).
4. Being rooked into putting down payments that the buyer cannot afford (have witnessed this numerous times)
5. Charged for every BS thing under the sun i.e., window etching, window tint, security systems etc.
6. Getting raped for service.
7. Getting lied to about your ability to cancel crap like extended warranties.

What I'm saying here is that while I'm not dumb enough to get screwed by the above, every dealer I've ever dealt with attempted it. And for every attempt that failed, like in my case, 50 others succeeded.

Sure, a person can charge (put in price) for a widget, but most people NEED a car, and they more often than not need financing, and THAT is when the BS hits the rev limiter. It's not the car price as much as all the other "hidden" BS that pisses me off.

I always have to start to leave the lot before they quite attempting to screw me....and that, that alone is my issue with car dealers. They are never satisfied with making a few bucks and making the buyer happy. It only happens against their will.

Please note, that while I'm arguing this point, I'm not suggesting that Airpark is an offender (although I'd bet they are, because ALL dealers are this way), I'm just saying how dealers are. In fact, I'll attempt to buy my next car from them to see for myself.:)

My personal last two car purchases went well in the end, but I went in all aggressive right off the bat, to establish the fact that I knew what was up. If you don't do that...God help you.

I see your type arround and I honestly would rather just deal with someone thats not rude and thinks they know everything about buying cars. I always hear about the buyer saying all the bad stuff about buying cars, but believe me the seller would sometimes like to find a better buyer too. It works both ways, I'm not trying to offend you but the sky is falling thought process makes it harder for you to buy a car and in fact most dealers will probably just try to jack with you more for acting that way.

For those of you that just want to buy a car, do your research, know your options finance etc and find a dealer and a car you would like to buy from. Walk in and understand like everything there is a cost and that people who sell cars are not magic, most of what we do is just simple math. Its alot easier to buy a car than most would like you to believe including all those ex-sales guys who are just trying to sell books.

Jason

joedokes28
09-01-2008, 10:46 AM
I get dozens of PMs from people who are upset... I end up having to actually READ the drama post to see what went wrong, who was at fault, etc.

Instead of deleting threads, I think you should delete those PM's. I can't think of anything more pathetic than people getting offended for what they read here and sending you a PM about it.

You must truly have the patience of a saint.

Jdemonto
09-01-2008, 10:47 AM
Instead of deleting threads, I think you should delete those PM's. I can't think of anything more pathetic than people getting offended for what they read here and sending you a PM about it.

You must truly have the patience of a saint.

X2, now maybe we should delete this thread because I am not sure about how buying cars ever came into a delete thread?

Jason

chopped7
09-01-2008, 11:30 AM
I like frogs... and... and... wowwwww... pretty red light...

ummm... what were we talking about....

i guess it's boiling down to free market capitalism vs deception and unethical business practices in the auto industry. it's becoming a pretty good thread because both sides are being represented.

no one is arguing the black and white. price of car vs what the customer is willing to pay. the gray area is the overpriced care packages, extended warranties, window etching, etc. many get duped into these additional features that don't have the value of what they cost. often, the customer isn't told about these additions up front and they find out about them while doing the final paperwork. when the additional charges are questioned by the customer, they are told they have to buy the additional features even if they don't want them. it's pretty much starndard operating procedure but is it ethical.

maybe it's just as fair as a customer having a salesman look all over the valley for the car he wants and then not buying it after the salesman put all the time into finding it.

i like having a plan b. the witch doctor to shrink the salesman's head if they don't give you the deal you want is my favorite. stone circle deathmatch is a close 2nd.

MisfitTom138
09-01-2008, 11:32 AM
I like cereal.

joedokes28
09-01-2008, 11:35 AM
I like women.

I know, I know, I'm in the minority, but take it easy on me will ya?

Howyadoin
09-01-2008, 11:51 AM
I heard someone's giving away free stuff......IN, thanks for the chance!:laugh2:

Oh yea, and I like bacon.

militiakrawler
09-02-2008, 01:44 AM
I like squidbillies
http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=8a25c392193796c3011939c3c5d00131