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Jdemonto
08-07-2008, 02:51 PM
Interesting article.....

Here (http://www.mpgomatic.com/2008/03/15/35-mpg-why-wait-until-2020/)

Source:MPGOMATIC.COM

One of the keys to restarting the American economy is staring us in the face. While our future hinges on the rapid adoption of fuel-efficient vehicles, our government stands in the way of a rapid free market solution.

35 MPG can be an immediate reality, with one domestic manufacturer, if the United States government would only allow it to happen. Our elected representatives need to be aware of the facts and make the appropriate decisions.

Chrysler is uniquely positioned among the Big Three US automakers. Unlike Ford and General Motors, Chrysler is already building a slew of high-MPG diesel-powered vehicles right here in the United States.

Amazing as it may seem in these difficult times, Chrysler is not allowed to sell those cars domestically, due to recently tightened emissions regulations. With the exception of the domestically-available Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel, all of Chrysler’s North American manufactured high-MPG diesel-equipped vehicles are being shipped abroad.

Each and every one of Chrysler’s European models is available with a diesel engine, with the exception of the Dodge Viper. In fact, a diesel engine can be found under the hood of more than 50% of the vehicles that Chrysler sells in Europe.

All-in-all, a dozen Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep diesel-engined models are currently available outside of the United States, but are not sold domestically.

Here’s the eye-opener … half of those models currently achieve 35 miles per gallon combined.

That’s 35 MPG … right now.

And what’s even more crazy? All of these 35 MPG cars and SUVs are built in North American plants by North American workers … American citizens cannot buy and drive the fuel-efficient cars they build.

The thriftiest of the bunch delivers nearly 50 MPG on the highway … and it’s no dog off the line, turning in 0-62 mile per hour (MPH) times under nine seconds. The fastest in the pack delivers 7.6 second 0-62 times and 35.6 MPG on the highway.

Needless to say, these are wonderful world-class cars, a world apart from your Uncle’s noisy, slow, smelly 80’s-era diesel.


The Mercedes-Benz V6 diesel-equipped Jeep Grand Cherokee is the first US-built passenger vehicle to meet the tougher Federal emissions requirements. With the emissions work done on the Mercedes’ 3.0 liter engine, we expect the Chrysler 300 to be the next diesel-powered domestic, as it shares the same powerplant. (At present, diesel 300s are being built in Graz, Austria.)

Chrysler is using four different diesel engines, in all:

2.0 liter Volkswagen turbo-diesel inline four (Avenger, Caliber, Compass, Journey, Sebring, Patriot)
2.2 liter Mercedes-Benz inline four (PT Cruiser)
2.8 liter VM Motari inline four (Cherokee, Grand Voyager, Nitro, Wrangler)
3.0 liter Mercedes-Benz V6 (300, Commander, Grand Cherokee)
What if the federal government temporarily rolled back the emissions requirements for one or two years, to allow the sale of these fuel-sipping vehicles while Chrysler and its partners complete the engineering necessary to meet the current regulations?

Crazier schemes have been implemented to stimulate the economy, no doubt about that. But this one just might work … by spurring investment and putting people back to work.

As you ponder that thought, take a gander at a group of specifications that compare the European diesels with the most fuel-efficient engines in each of the US domestics …

04jeeptj
08-07-2008, 03:02 PM
So is there any reasoning why Diesel if ~60c per gallon higher that Regular?

mingoglia
08-07-2008, 03:11 PM
So is there any reasoning why Diesel if ~60c per gallon higher that Regular?

It really sucks. Several years ago it was the other way around. I think AZ has some of the most expensive diesel out there.

I'm sure the cost of diesel come from two things. First, the refineries are now producing low sulfur fuel. As they find ways to make the process cheaper, I'm sure the price will come down a bit. The other thing is the cost of crude oil. Everything we use that's petroleum based has to be extracted from the crude. so you have the price of the crude oil, combined with the price to extract the type of fuel you're making. It takes more crude oil to make 1 gallon of diesel than it does to make 1 gallon of gasoline. Since diesel fuel requires more crude, if the price of crude goes through the roof, the price of diesel will not necessarily go up in proportion to gasoline... the price will actually increase at a faster rate because where the refinement process is roughly the same, the raw material has gone up. More raw material per gallon, higher increase.

Mike

04jeeptj
08-07-2008, 03:25 PM
With Diesel being 60c higher.

If Regular is $4.00/ gallon and you get 30mpg that would be 13c per mile

if Diesel if $4.60/ gallon and you get 35mpg that would be 13c per mile

5MPG is quite a bit of difference, but you get no $ savings.

That Sux!

ShmUDE
08-07-2008, 03:34 PM
It really sucks. Several years ago it was the other way around. I think AZ has some of the most expensive diesel out there.

Mike

i was just up in WA and it was 5 bucks a gallon. I topped off my sisters f350 with 3/4 tank of gas and it was 60 bucks to fill the last 1/4 tank! i about shat myself!

mingoglia
08-07-2008, 03:53 PM
i was just up in WA and it was 5 bucks a gallon. I topped off my sisters f350 with 3/4 tank of gas and it was 60 bucks to fill the last 1/4 tank! i about shat myself!

I should clarify, the most expensive diesel in relation to gasoline. I'm sure in WA, gas was proportionally higher as well.

I was pleasantly surprised when I was in San Diego last weekend. I was expecting fuel to be $5/gallon but was pleasantly surprised to see it about what it was in Phoenix. Well, it was about the same price as Phoenix was a few weeks ago, so it didn't feel like the price hurt that much. Plus, I was only putting like 5 gallons in the Prius to top it off since I had gotten fuel in like Yuma on the way in.

Jdemonto
08-07-2008, 04:07 PM
Mikes right, ULSD is the reason for the more expensive diesel. With diesel you have options:

#1 ULSD

#2 Biofuel

#3 WVO

#4 Longer range per tank=less stops

With my Jeep liberty I get 25mpg, With my old 3.7 V6 I got 16mpg. With diesel your savings would be over a large period of time like a hybrid but you get lots of lowend power for pulling or passing and better fuel mileage.

Heres a chart to why Diesel is better, even paying more per gallon

http://virtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22211&stc=1&d=1218150346

Ok, so I am saving $72 a month or $864 a year to own a diesel liberty...Makes sense to me:drummer:

mingoglia
08-07-2008, 04:15 PM
Mikes right, ULSD is the reason for the more expensive diesel. With diesel you have options:

#1 ULSD

#2 Biofuel

#3 WVO

#4 Longer range per tank=less stops

With my Jeep liberty I get 25mpg, With my old 3.7 V6 I got 16mpg. With diesel your savings would be over a large period of time like a hybrid but you get lots of lowend power for pulling or passing and better fuel mileage.

Heres a chart to why Diesel is better, even paying more per gallon

http://virtualjeepclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22211&stc=1&d=1218150346

Ok, so I am saving $72 a month or $864 a year to own a diesel liberty...Makes sense to me:drummer:

I know it's been about a month since I filled up my truck with diesel... but I can have sworn diesel is running in the $4.50 range still and not $3.99?

Jdemonto
08-07-2008, 06:30 PM
I know it's been about a month since I filled up my truck with diesel... but I can have sworn diesel is running in the $4.50 range still and not $3.99?

Hey Buddy, I am thifty, My wife paid $4.03 just hours before:mickey:

www.phoenixgasprices.com

brian lujan
08-08-2008, 08:36 AM
is that MILE PER GALLON, KILOMETER PER GALLON, KILOMETER PER LITER?

Jdemonto
08-08-2008, 09:48 AM
is that MILE PER GALLON, KILOMETER PER GALLON, KILOMETER PER LITER?

Thats translated into US gallons

Jason

brian lujan
08-08-2008, 10:00 AM
ok, that sucks vehicals over there are tuned better then over here.

mingoglia
08-08-2008, 10:28 AM
Thats translated into US gallons

Jason

I'd be hesitant to rely on that 100%. Many times these MPG "translations" are actually just converted from liters to their imperial gallon. Their imperial gallon is much larger than our gallon. On a 35mpg vehicle on the imperial gallon that would translate probably to 29 or 30mpg US. When looking at european models it's best to look at the liters per mile and manually do the translation to make sure. I believe 1 US gallon is around 3.78L. The imperial mile is also a bit different than our mile, but it's close enough to not affect these numbers by any measurable amount.

Jdemonto
08-08-2008, 11:33 AM
You guys get the point, With Vw's new motor which Chrysler mostly uses really theres no reason why we should not be selling these vehicles here. Jim Press VP on chrysler said that every vehicle will be offered with a alternative power train. Could mean more hybrids, Could mean more diesels. I think by 2010 you will see more from every manufacture.

Jason

mingoglia
08-08-2008, 11:40 AM
You guys get the point, With Vw's new motor which Chrysler mostly uses really theres no reason why we should not be selling these vehicles here. Jim Press VP on chrysler said that every vehicle will be offered with a alternative power train. Could mean more hybrids, Could mean more diesels. I think by 2010 you will see more from every manufacture.

Jason

I for one am really excited. I'm kinda glad the manufacturers are getting the squeeze to come out with more fuel efficient vehicles. The less fuel we use, the more money we keep out of countries that hate Americans. At the end of the day that's by far the PRIMARY reason I have a Prius as my daily driver. Up until now I've always bought American... but it came down to the lesser of too evils and I decided to buy Japanese because it was the best way I could keep money out of middle east pockets.

Mike

larry avants
08-08-2008, 12:23 PM
Where do you get that 4.03 a gallon diesel??? I will drive all the way to Phx for that kind of saving....

Larry

Jdemonto
08-08-2008, 07:46 PM
Where do you get that 4.03 a gallon diesel??? I will drive all the way to Phx for that kind of saving....

Larry

http://www.phoenixgasprices.com/

$3.93 In the Zone Broadway & Val Vista MESA!!!

$3.99 Chevron I-17/bell rd