blooddrive
01-08-2004, 05:53 AM
81162-81186
81162 From: Chris <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Sat Mar 22, 2003 10:21pm
Subject: [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
I must have missed the boat when they handed out he mind reading part
of the brain. Seems like everyone knows what others are thinking
these days.
While it was posted here and people who feel the same attended I
missed the post that informed eveyone they had to feel the same way.
As far as it being OT, I agree that is why I added it to the subject
line. And while it is maybe not Jeep related the fact that we are at
war and it was to show our support for the men and women that give us
each the freedom to speak our minds, have the opportunity to attend a
rally or land use meeting and even our right to wheel our Jeeps kind
of means it does involve all of us on some level (IMO). Heck if the
armed forces don't defend our freedom we may not have land to wheel
on in the future no matter what anyone says.
As far as the issue of sad about where our support lies, while I
agree often times support at land use meetings is lower that it
should be, one is talking about loss of land the other loss of life.
If we lose land we can fight to get it back, lives you can never get
back. Right now we are fighting to be sure that we don't lose over 3
thousand lives again due to senseless attacks. THink of it another
way, which is worse if you lose your home or your child or maybe your
spouse.
I will see many of you at the next land use meeting I can make and I
will also see whoever shows up to the next support showing for our
troops.
Chris
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...> wrote:
> Hi Sharky,
>
> I think the problem with the rally post is that it is not a Jeep
related
> issue. The bottom line (in my opinion) is that land use issues are
ontopic
> and troop support rallys are offtopic. Just because I don't support
the
> rally being a club run doesn't mean I don't support the troops or
the idea
> of a rally. So if you feel that the rally idea hasn't gotten
deserved
> attention its probably because other people come here to read Jeep
stuff and
> ignore the rest that isn't Jeep related.
>
> Another problem is that somebody needs to pickup the ball and lead
this
> rally. Whoever takes on this responsibility will need to coordinate
with law
> enforcement in advance as well as put out some notices to the local
media.
> Maybe it won't be an AZVJC function but there needs to be a leader
> nonetheless and a contact list generated of interested people. Once
this
> person has setup the event then by all means I hope they post an
invitation
> on the list so that individual AZVJC members that are interested
can attend.
> Those that don't like it can stay home (or organize a counter
demonstration
> across the street)
>
> Why don't I support this as an AZVJC function? First of all the only
> politics this group really deals with are land issues and the
majority of us
> feel the same about that topic. When we start talking about war and
the
> politics surrounding it then you start to divide the group. I know
there are
> liberal and conservative members here and of course there probably
are
> Jeepers participating in both types of rallys. Who are we to tell
the rest
> of the group which way to think?
>
> That being said, I'm proudly flyin the Stars and Stripes in front
of my
> house in support of the troops and find myself glued to Fox News
these days.
> I've even got a TV tuner in my PC and I'm listening as I type this.
<Grin>
>
>
> That's my take on it all.
>
> Scott K
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sharxjeep [mailto:sharxjeep@c...]
> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:56 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>
>
> Its funny you should mention that considering the support our
> troops rally got less attention from the club than the land use
> issues. Somethings are just more important than others at certain
> times.
> To each their own but at this time my money is on a much bigger
> picture.
>
> Sharky
>
>
>
>
> > > Stu,
> > > It is a shame that these club members show so much effort for
> > supporting
> > > our troops (rightfully so) and only a fraction get as
> enthusiastic
> > about
> > > land use meetings.
> > > I have my reasons for staying at home and not being able to
> > participate
> > > in any activities with the club.
> > > A club run showing support for our troops in Prescott would have
> > been
> > > the way to go.
> > >
> > > Joey K
> > > http://www.desertjeep.com
> > > 93YJ
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 7:06 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > >
> > > Wow.....that idea went over like a lead brick.
> > >
> > > <shrug>
> > >
> > >
> > > Stu Olson
> > > www.stu-offroad.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 4:04 PM
> > > To: Bob Jacques; jeff.trujillo@m...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > >
> > > Even a better idea.....hit the BLM land use meeting tomorrow AM
in
> > > Prescott and then do Support Our Troops afterwards! Might as
well
> > > kill
> two
> > birds
> > > with the same stone!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Stu Olson
> > > www.stu-offroad.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Bob Jacques [mailto:bjacques@m...]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 2:04 PM
> > > To: 'jeff.trujillo@m...'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't know if it can be organized that quick ! but hopefully
it
> > will
> > > all
> > > be over by next weekend!! (except for the mop up )... How about
> > posting
> > > it
> > > as a run right now to see who signs up? I can see it now,
100+
> > jeeps
> > > cruisin with flags a flyin' ! Pretty impressive show of
> support!!!
> > > Bob
> > > J
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: jeff.trujillo@m...
> > > [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 1:42 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > >
> > >
> > > I think there are only three of us that are willing to do this!
I
> > am up
> > > for
> > > saturday but we need more people!!!
> > >
> > > Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > > Field Service Representative
> > > MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > > jeff.trujillo@m...
> > > Voice:(480)346-6249
> > > Fax:(480)346-6813
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Chris [mailto:my1stjeep@e...]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 1:40 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > >
> > >
> > > Do we want to do this on the weekend? Not sure if we target
the
> > > Capitol we would get much response over the weekend. Then again
> if
> > > we do it during the week in the evening it wouldn't be any
better
> > > and I am not sure that many can take time off work. So how
about
> > > this weekend sometime? Saturday evening? Maybe cruise down
Mill?
> > >
> > > Keep throwing out ideas everyone.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > -
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "intertwingled"
> <intertwingled@q...>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > anti-dorks = peacemongering surrender monkeys?
> > > >
> > > > Count me in. I hate those guys.
> > > >
> > > > At 08:22 PM 3/21/03 -0000, you wrote:
> > > > >Only if I can bring my baseball bat.
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, jeff.trujillo@m... wrote:
> > > > >> So are we going to try and put something together? I'm in
for
> > > doing
> > > > >a demo
> > > > >> at the capital across the street from the anti-dorks :o)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > > > >> Field Service Representative
> > > > >> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > > > >> jeff.trujillo@m...
> > > > >> Voice:(480)346-6249
> > > > >> Fax:(480)346-6813
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> From: Bill [mailto:bill@j...]
> > > > >> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 11:47 AM
> > > > >> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >> Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I'm in also
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --------------
> > > > >> Bill - Jeeps Only
> > > > >> http://www.jeepsonly.com
> > > > >> A Yahoo-style directory/search engine of links for Jeeps
only
> > > > >> -----------------------------------------------------------
--
> -
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <my1stjeep@e...>
> wrote:
> > > > >> > Anyone up for putting on a public display to show our
> > > support?
> > > > >All
> > > > >> > I keep seeing is people protesting and thinking this has
to
> > > to
> > > > >with
> > > > >> > oil or how it is going to affect the dollars spent on
their
> > > > >> > education.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Just a thought.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Chris
> > > > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > -
> > > ----
> > > > >--
> > > > >> -
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> -----------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > -
> > > ----
> > > > >--------
> > > > >> The information transmitted is intended only for the person
> or
> > > > >entity to
> > > > >> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> > > > >privileged
> > > > >> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or
other
> > > use
> > > > >of, or
> > > > >> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
> > > persons
> > > > >or
> > > > >> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > > >> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this
in
> > > > >error, please
> > > > >> contact the sender by email and delete the material from
any
> > > > >computer..
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > even the safest course is fraught with peril
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > ----
> > > ----
> > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
> > entity to
> > > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> privileged
> > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other
use
> > of, or
> > > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
> persons
> > or
> > > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> error,
> > > please
> > > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> > computer..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
81163 From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
Date: Sat Mar 22, 2003 11:07pm
Subject: RE: [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
The "rally" was my very first AZVJC run. I had a helluva
good time. We matched those peacemongers yell for yell,
I think.
Tony
At 10:48 PM 3/22/03 -0700, Scott Kruize wrote:
>Hi Sharky,
>
>I think the problem with the rally post is that it is not a Jeep related
>issue. The bottom line (in my opinion) is that land use issues are ontopic
>and troop support rallys are offtopic. Just because I don't support the
>rally being a club run doesn't mean I don't support the troops or the idea
>of a rally. So if you feel that the rally idea hasn't gotten deserved
>attention its probably because other people come here to read Jeep stuff and
>ignore the rest that isn't Jeep related.
>
>Another problem is that somebody needs to pickup the ball and lead this
>rally. Whoever takes on this responsibility will need to coordinate with law
>enforcement in advance as well as put out some notices to the local media.
>Maybe it won't be an AZVJC function but there needs to be a leader
>nonetheless and a contact list generated of interested people. Once this
>person has setup the event then by all means I hope they post an invitation
>on the list so that individual AZVJC members that are interested can attend.
>Those that don't like it can stay home (or organize a counter demonstration
>across the street)
>
>Why don't I support this as an AZVJC function? First of all the only
>politics this group really deals with are land issues and the majority of us
>feel the same about that topic. When we start talking about war and the
>politics surrounding it then you start to divide the group. I know there are
>liberal and conservative members here and of course there probably are
>Jeepers participating in both types of rallys. Who are we to tell the rest
>of the group which way to think?
>
>That being said, I'm proudly flyin the Stars and Stripes in front of my
>house in support of the troops and find myself glued to Fox News these days.
>I've even got a TV tuner in my PC and I'm listening as I type this. <Grin>
>
>
>That's my take on it all.
>
>Scott K
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: sharxjeep [mailto:sharxjeep@c...]
>Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:56 PM
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>
>
> Its funny you should mention that considering the support our
>troops rally got less attention from the club than the land use
>issues. Somethings are just more important than others at certain
>times.
> To each their own but at this time my money is on a much bigger
>picture.
>
>Sharky
>
>
>
>
>> > Stu,
>> > It is a shame that these club members show so much effort for
>> supporting
>> > our troops (rightfully so) and only a fraction get as
>enthusiastic
>> about
>> > land use meetings.
>> > I have my reasons for staying at home and not being able to
>> participate
>> > in any activities with the club.
>> > A club run showing support for our troops in Prescott would have
>> been
>> > the way to go.
>> >
>> > Joey K
>> > http://www.desertjeep.com
>> > 93YJ
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
>> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 7:06 PM
>> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>> >
>> > Wow.....that idea went over like a lead brick.
>> >
>> > <shrug>
>> >
>> >
>> > Stu Olson
>> > www.stu-offroad.com
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
>> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 4:04 PM
>> > To: Bob Jacques; jeff.trujillo@m...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>> >
>> > Even a better idea.....hit the BLM land use meeting tomorrow AM in
>> > Prescott and then do Support Our Troops afterwards! Might as well
>> > kill
>two
>> birds
>> > with the same stone!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Stu Olson
>> > www.stu-offroad.com
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Bob Jacques [mailto:bjacques@m...]
>> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 2:04 PM
>> > To: 'jeff.trujillo@m...'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>> >
>> >
>> > I don't know if it can be organized that quick ! but hopefully it
>> will
>> > all
>> > be over by next weekend!! (except for the mop up )... How about
>> posting
>> > it
>> > as a run right now to see who signs up? I can see it now, 100+
>> jeeps
>> > cruisin with flags a flyin' ! Pretty impressive show of
>support!!!
>> > Bob
>> > J
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: jeff.trujillo@m...
>> > [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
>> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 1:42 PM
>> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>> >
>> >
>> > I think there are only three of us that are willing to do this! I
>> am up
>> > for
>> > saturday but we need more people!!!
>> >
>> > Jeffrey A. Trujillo
>> > Field Service Representative
>> > MD Helicopters, Inc.
>> > jeff.trujillo@m...
>> > Voice:(480)346-6249
>> > Fax:(480)346-6813
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Chris [mailto:my1stjeep@e...]
>> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 1:40 PM
>> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> > Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>> >
>> >
>> > Do we want to do this on the weekend? Not sure if we target the
>> > Capitol we would get much response over the weekend. Then again
>if
>> > we do it during the week in the evening it wouldn't be any better
>> > and I am not sure that many can take time off work. So how about
>> > this weekend sometime? Saturday evening? Maybe cruise down Mill?
>> >
>> > Keep throwing out ideas everyone.
>> >
>> > Chris
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
>--
>> -
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "intertwingled"
><intertwingled@q...>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > anti-dorks = peacemongering surrender monkeys?
>> > >
>> > > Count me in. I hate those guys.
>> > >
>> > > At 08:22 PM 3/21/03 -0000, you wrote:
>> > > >Only if I can bring my baseball bat.
>> > > >
>> > > >--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, jeff.trujillo@m... wrote:
>> > > >> So are we going to try and put something together? I'm in for
>> > doing
>> > > >a demo
>> > > >> at the capital across the street from the anti-dorks :o)
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
>> > > >> Field Service Representative
>> > > >> MD Helicopters, Inc.
>> > > >> jeff.trujillo@m...
>> > > >> Voice:(480)346-6249
>> > > >> Fax:(480)346-6813
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > > >> From: Bill [mailto:bill@j...]
>> > > >> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 11:47 AM
>> > > >> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> > > >> Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> I'm in also
>> > > >>
>> > > >> --------------
>> > > >> Bill - Jeeps Only
>> > > >> http://www.jeepsonly.com
>> > > >> A Yahoo-style directory/search engine of links for Jeeps only
>> > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------
>-
>> > > >>
>> > > >> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <my1stjeep@e...>
>wrote:
>> > > >> > Anyone up for putting on a public display to show our
>> > support?
>> > > >All
>> > > >> > I keep seeing is people protesting and thinking this has to
>> > to
>> > > >with
>> > > >> > oil or how it is going to affect the dollars spent on their
>> > > >> > education.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > Just a thought.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > Chris
>> > > >> > -----------------------------------------------------------
>--
>> -
>> > ----
>> > > >--
>> > > >> -
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------
>--
>> -
>> > ----
>> > > >--------
>> > > >> The information transmitted is intended only for the person
>or
>> > > >entity to
>> > > >> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
>> > > >privileged
>> > > >> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other
>> > use
>> > > >of, or
>> > > >> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
>> > persons
>> > > >or
>> > > >> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
>> > > >> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
>> > > >error, please
>> > > >> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
>> > > >computer..
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > even the safest course is fraught with peril
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
>--
>> ----
>> > ----
>> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
>> entity to
>> > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
>privileged
>> > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
>> of, or
>> > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
>persons
>> or
>> > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
>> > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
>error,
>> > please
>> > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
>> computer..
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
--
even the safest course is fraught with peril
81164 From: Bruce Meyer <dmeyer24@c...>
Date: Sat Mar 22, 2003 10:53pm
Subject: test post; ignore
endeavoring to get my account to work correctly
81165 From: jcteel <jcteel1@e...>
Date: Sun Mar 23, 2003 0:20am
Subject: Re: Broken Arrow Next Sunday
Yeah,
I'm thinking about going up Sat. too although I doubt my wife will be
coming along. You might want to check out some of the B&B's. I've
stayed at one up there (during prime season) and it was about the
same price as the average hotel. I think we paid $95. The rooms are
usually so much nicer in a B&B because its actually someone's house
so they take pride in it. We almost always stay at B&B's when we
vacation because the prices are always comparable. Throw in a 'free'
full breakfast for a couple of people and that makes it even a better
deal. I don't recall the name of the one we stayed at but if you
email me offline I can look it up for you.
John
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
wrote:
>
> This will be my wifes first run ever...(believe it or not). Our
plans are to
> go up on Saturday and hang around, stay the night, and then meet
the group
> on Sunday for the run. Anyone else planning on going up early? I
think I got
> a decent rate (for this time of year) at the Sedona days inn
94.00/night.
>
>
> Frank
> BadAzXJ@m...
> http://groups.msn.com/BadAzXJ/badazxj.msnw
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
81166 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Sun Mar 23, 2003 6:23am
Subject: RE: Lowering the price of gasoline and flat tow of my YJ 2768 miles-yep I made it
If our supply was in fact so limited, then why are we not running out? All of the regular stations I frequent have always had gas when I drove up.
So&tell people we are in short supply and then jack up the price so they can feel grateful they are getting gas? What ever&.
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:skruize@cox.net]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:23 PM
To: cowboy7575@aol.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Lowering the price of gasoline and flat tow of my YJ 2768 miles-yep I made it
Mike,
We are on a limited supply of the winter gas. In another week Maricopa county gas stations switch to the summer blend of which there should be plenty of supply. I think prices will drop after that.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: cowboy7575@aol.com [mailto:cowboy7575@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:12 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Lowering the price of gasoline and flat tow of my YJ 2768 miles-yep I made it
I am convinced there is not reason for the gas prices in the Phoenix area to be 20-60 cents higher than anywhere else. I just got back to PA from 18days in the valley, the Flying J on I-10 between Phx and Tucson was $1.60 a gallon, the Flying J on I-40 in Winslow was about the same.......I never paid more than $1.60 a gallon the whole way to PA......the lowest price was at the flying J in Oklahoma City at $1.36 a gallon and the next lowest was at a flying J in VA at $1.41 a gallon. Here in PA it is running $1.55 - $1.65 depending on the station. People in the valley are getting ripped off, the Flying J on I-10 in Phx was over $2.00 a gallon when I left there on the 17th. It seems that gas is priced according to what everyone else is selling it for.......Flying J's cost for fuel is pretty constant around the nation (I know this for a fact as I a good friends with one of their fuel marketers). The price is set according to the competition and demand.........so if you want gas in the valley to go down in price, stop buying it for a week.......watch it drop 30 or 40 cents. The price of gas in the Phoenix area is pure price fixing by the oil companies.
Mike
p.s. got my Wrangler home fine with the flat tow thanks to a 12" lift hitch. Towed great, no problems, drove the speed limit for the most part (except downhill where the handling was just a little funny) and got a whopping 12.5 mpg in my 5.9 ZJ.......
Thanks for all the advice on the tow job and thanks to the member (I forgot his name) that made a great deal on the 12" lift hitch!
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
81167 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Sun Mar 23, 2003 6:25am
Subject: RE: [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
Well said, Scott.
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:skruize@c...]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:48 PM
To: 'sharxjeep'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
Hi Sharky,
I think the problem with the rally post is that it is not a Jeep related
issue. The bottom line (in my opinion) is that land use issues are
ontopic
and troop support rallys are offtopic. Just because I don't support the
rally being a club run doesn't mean I don't support the troops or the
idea
of a rally. So if you feel that the rally idea hasn't gotten deserved
attention its probably because other people come here to read Jeep stuff
and
ignore the rest that isn't Jeep related.
Another problem is that somebody needs to pickup the ball and lead this
rally. Whoever takes on this responsibility will need to coordinate with
law
enforcement in advance as well as put out some notices to the local
media.
Maybe it won't be an AZVJC function but there needs to be a leader
nonetheless and a contact list generated of interested people. Once this
person has setup the event then by all means I hope they post an
invitation
on the list so that individual AZVJC members that are interested can
attend.
Those that don't like it can stay home (or organize a counter
demonstration
across the street)
Why don't I support this as an AZVJC function? First of all the only
politics this group really deals with are land issues and the majority
of us
feel the same about that topic. When we start talking about war and the
politics surrounding it then you start to divide the group. I know there
are
liberal and conservative members here and of course there probably are
Jeepers participating in both types of rallys. Who are we to tell the
rest
of the group which way to think?
That being said, I'm proudly flyin the Stars and Stripes in front of my
house in support of the troops and find myself glued to Fox News these
days.
I've even got a TV tuner in my PC and I'm listening as I type this.
<Grin>
That's my take on it all.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: sharxjeep [mailto:sharxjeep@c...]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:56 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
Its funny you should mention that considering the support our
troops rally got less attention from the club than the land use
issues. Somethings are just more important than others at certain
times.
To each their own but at this time my money is on a much bigger
picture.
Sharky
> > Stu,
> > It is a shame that these club members show so much effort for
> supporting
> > our troops (rightfully so) and only a fraction get as
enthusiastic
> about
> > land use meetings.
> > I have my reasons for staying at home and not being able to
> participate
> > in any activities with the club.
> > A club run showing support for our troops in Prescott would have
> been
> > the way to go.
> >
> > Joey K
> > http://www.desertjeep.com
> > 93YJ
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 7:06 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> >
> > Wow.....that idea went over like a lead brick.
> >
> > <shrug>
> >
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 4:04 PM
> > To: Bob Jacques; jeff.trujillo@m...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> >
> > Even a better idea.....hit the BLM land use meeting tomorrow AM in
> > Prescott and then do Support Our Troops afterwards! Might as well
> > kill
two
> birds
> > with the same stone!
> >
> >
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bob Jacques [mailto:bjacques@m...]
> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 2:04 PM
> > To: 'jeff.trujillo@m...'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> >
> >
> > I don't know if it can be organized that quick ! but hopefully it
> will
> > all
> > be over by next weekend!! (except for the mop up )... How about
> posting
> > it
> > as a run right now to see who signs up? I can see it now, 100+
> jeeps
> > cruisin with flags a flyin' ! Pretty impressive show of
support!!!
> > Bob
> > J
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jeff.trujillo@m...
> > [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 1:42 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> >
> >
> > I think there are only three of us that are willing to do this! I
> am up
> > for
> > saturday but we need more people!!!
> >
> > Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > Field Service Representative
> > MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > jeff.trujillo@m...
> > Voice:(480)346-6249
> > Fax:(480)346-6813
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chris [mailto:my1stjeep@e...]
> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 1:40 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> >
> >
> > Do we want to do this on the weekend? Not sure if we target the
> > Capitol we would get much response over the weekend. Then again
if
> > we do it during the week in the evening it wouldn't be any better
> > and I am not sure that many can take time off work. So how about
> > this weekend sometime? Saturday evening? Maybe cruise down Mill?
> >
> > Keep throwing out ideas everyone.
> >
> > Chris
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "intertwingled"
<intertwingled@q...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > anti-dorks = peacemongering surrender monkeys?
> > >
> > > Count me in. I hate those guys.
> > >
> > > At 08:22 PM 3/21/03 -0000, you wrote:
> > > >Only if I can bring my baseball bat.
> > > >
> > > >--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, jeff.trujillo@m... wrote:
> > > >> So are we going to try and put something together? I'm in for
> > doing
> > > >a demo
> > > >> at the capital across the street from the anti-dorks :o)
> > > >>
> > > >> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > > >> Field Service Representative
> > > >> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > > >> jeff.trujillo@m...
> > > >> Voice:(480)346-6249
> > > >> Fax:(480)346-6813
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: Bill [mailto:bill@j...]
> > > >> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 11:47 AM
> > > >> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > >> Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> I'm in also
> > > >>
> > > >> --------------
> > > >> Bill - Jeeps Only
> > > >> http://www.jeepsonly.com
> > > >> A Yahoo-style directory/search engine of links for Jeeps only
> > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------
-
> > > >>
> > > >> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <my1stjeep@e...>
wrote:
> > > >> > Anyone up for putting on a public display to show our
> > support?
> > > >All
> > > >> > I keep seeing is people protesting and thinking this has to
> > to
> > > >with
> > > >> > oil or how it is going to affect the dollars spent on their
> > > >> > education.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Just a thought.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Chris
> > > >> > -----------------------------------------------------------
--
> -
> > ----
> > > >--
> > > >> -
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -
> > ----
> > > >--------
> > > >> The information transmitted is intended only for the person
or
> > > >entity to
> > > >> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> > > >privileged
> > > >> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other
> > use
> > > >of, or
> > > >> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
> > persons
> > > >or
> > > >> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > >> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> > > >error, please
> > > >> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> > > >computer..
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > even the safest course is fraught with peril
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
> > ----
> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
> entity to
> > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
privileged
> > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
> of, or
> > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
persons
> or
> > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
error,
> > please
> > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> computer..
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
81168 From: sedonacowgirl <cowgirl@s...>
Date: Sun Mar 23, 2003 6:41am
Subject: Re: Broken Arrow Next Sunday
Howdy, Frank!
Red Rock Inn has great rates, too. They are in the Village (about 7
miles south of Sedona proper). (928) 284-2487.
Hope to see "y'all" next weekend!
Happy trails,
Nena
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
wrote:
>
> This will be my wifes first run ever...(believe it or not). Our
plans are to
> go up on Saturday and hang around, stay the night, and then meet
the group
> on Sunday for the run. Anyone else planning on going up early? I
think I got
> a decent rate (for this time of year) at the Sedona days inn
94.00/night.
>
>
> Frank
> BadAzXJ@m...
> http://groups.msn.com/BadAzXJ/badazxj.msnw
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
81169 From: Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...>
Date: Sun Mar 23, 2003 6:57am
Subject: RE: [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
There is a rally in Tucson next Sat. I will try go to that one also.
Ross
-----Original Message-----
From: sharxjeep [mailto:sharxjeep@c...]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:56 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
Its funny you should mention that considering the support our
troops rally got less attention from the club than the land use
issues. Somethings are just more important than others at certain
times.
To each their own but at this time my money is on a much bigger
picture.
Sharky
> > Stu,
> > It is a shame that these club members show so much effort for
> supporting
> > our troops (rightfully so) and only a fraction get as
enthusiastic
> about
> > land use meetings.
> > I have my reasons for staying at home and not being able to
> participate
> > in any activities with the club.
> > A club run showing support for our troops in Prescott would have
> been
> > the way to go.
> >
> > Joey K
> > http://www.desertjeep.com
> > 93YJ
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 7:06 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> >
> > Wow.....that idea went over like a lead brick.
> >
> > <shrug>
> >
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 4:04 PM
> > To: Bob Jacques; jeff.trujillo@m...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> >
> > Even a better idea.....hit the BLM land use meeting tomorrow AM in
> > Prescott
> > and then do Support Our Troops afterwards! Might as well kill
two
> birds
> > with the same stone!
> >
> >
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bob Jacques [mailto:bjacques@m...]
> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 2:04 PM
> > To: 'jeff.trujillo@m...'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> >
> >
> > I don't know if it can be organized that quick ! but hopefully it
> will
> > all
> > be over by next weekend!! (except for the mop up )... How about
> posting
> > it
> > as a run right now to see who signs up? I can see it now, 100+
> jeeps
> > cruisin with flags a flyin' ! Pretty impressive show of
support!!!
> > Bob
> > J
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jeff.trujillo@m...
> > [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 1:42 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> >
> >
> > I think there are only three of us that are willing to do this! I
> am up
> > for
> > saturday but we need more people!!!
> >
> > Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > Field Service Representative
> > MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > jeff.trujillo@m...
> > Voice:(480)346-6249
> > Fax:(480)346-6813
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chris [mailto:my1stjeep@e...]
> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 1:40 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> >
> >
> > Do we want to do this on the weekend? Not sure if we target the
> > Capitol we would get much response over the weekend. Then again
if
> > we do it during the week in the evening it wouldn't be any better
> > and I am not sure that many can take time off work. So how about
> > this weekend sometime? Saturday evening? Maybe cruise down Mill?
> >
> > Keep throwing out ideas everyone.
> >
> > Chris
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "intertwingled"
<intertwingled@q...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > anti-dorks = peacemongering surrender monkeys?
> > >
> > > Count me in. I hate those guys.
> > >
> > > At 08:22 PM 3/21/03 -0000, you wrote:
> > > >Only if I can bring my baseball bat.
> > > >
> > > >--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, jeff.trujillo@m... wrote:
> > > >> So are we going to try and put something together? I'm in for
> > doing
> > > >a demo
> > > >> at the capital across the street from the anti-dorks :o)
> > > >>
> > > >> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > > >> Field Service Representative
> > > >> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > > >> jeff.trujillo@m...
> > > >> Voice:(480)346-6249
> > > >> Fax:(480)346-6813
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: Bill [mailto:bill@j...]
> > > >> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 11:47 AM
> > > >> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > >> Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> I'm in also
> > > >>
> > > >> --------------
> > > >> Bill - Jeeps Only
> > > >> http://www.jeepsonly.com
> > > >> A Yahoo-style directory/search engine of links for Jeeps only
> > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------
-
> > > >>
> > > >> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <my1stjeep@e...>
wrote:
> > > >> > Anyone up for putting on a public display to show our
> > support?
> > > >All
> > > >> > I keep seeing is people protesting and thinking this has to
> > to
> > > >with
> > > >> > oil or how it is going to affect the dollars spent on their
> > > >> > education.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Just a thought.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Chris
> > > >> > -----------------------------------------------------------
--
> -
> > ----
> > > >--
> > > >> -
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -
> > ----
> > > >--------
> > > >> The information transmitted is intended only for the person
or
> > > >entity to
> > > >> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> > > >privileged
> > > >> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other
> > use
> > > >of, or
> > > >> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
> > persons
> > > >or
> > > >> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > >> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> > > >error, please
> > > >> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> > > >computer..
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > even the safest course is fraught with peril
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
> > ----
> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
> entity to
> > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
privileged
> > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
> of, or
> > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
persons
> or
> > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
error,
> > please
> > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> computer..
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
81170 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Sun Mar 23, 2003 7:20am
Subject: RE: Lowering the price of gasoline and flat tow of my YJ 2768 miles-yep I made it
Costco by me has been out for 2 weeks.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@qwest.net]
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 7:23 AM
To: 'Scott Kruize'; cowboy7575@aol.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Lowering the price of gasoline and flat tow of my YJ 2768 miles-yep I made it
If our supply was in fact so limited, then why are we not running out? All of the regular stations I frequent have always had gas when I drove up.
So&tell people we are in short supply and then jack up the price so they can feel grateful they are getting gas? What ever&.
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:skruize@cox.net]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:23 PM
To: cowboy7575@aol.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Lowering the price of gasoline and flat tow of my YJ 2768 miles-yep I made it
Mike,
We are on a limited supply of the winter gas. In another week Maricopa county gas stations switch to the summer blend of which there should be plenty of supply. I think prices will drop after that.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: cowboy7575@aol.com [mailto:cowboy7575@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:12 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Lowering the price of gasoline and flat tow of my YJ 2768 miles-yep I made it
I am convinced there is not reason for the gas prices in the Phoenix area to be 20-60 cents higher than anywhere else. I just got back to PA from 18days in the valley, the Flying J on I-10 between Phx and Tucson was $1.60 a gallon, the Flying J on I-40 in Winslow was about the same.......I never paid more than $1.60 a gallon the whole way to PA......the lowest price was at the flying J in Oklahoma City at $1.36 a gallon and the next lowest was at a flying J in VA at $1.41 a gallon. Here in PA it is running $1.55 - $1.65 depending on the station. People in the valley are getting ripped off, the Flying J on I-10 in Phx was over $2.00 a gallon when I left there on the 17th. It seems that gas is priced according to what everyone else is selling it for.......Flying J's cost for fuel is pretty constant around the nation (I know this for a fact as I a good friends with one of their fuel marketers). The price is set according to the competition and demand.........so if you want gas in the valley to go down in price, stop buying it for a week.......watch it drop 30 or 40 cents. The price of gas in the Phoenix area is pure price fixing by the oil companies.
Mike
p.s. got my Wrangler home fine with the flat tow thanks to a 12" lift hitch. Towed great, no problems, drove the speed limit for the most part (except downhill where the handling was just a little funny) and got a whopping 12.5 mpg in my 5.9 ZJ.......
Thanks for all the advice on the tow job and thanks to the member (I forgot his name) that made a great deal on the 12" lift hitch!
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
81171 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Sun Mar 23, 2003 7:26am
Subject: RE: Re: BLM Meeting in Prescott
Jim,
Bruce,
An outstanding summary of your perspective on yesterday's meeting.
Nicely done!
Having had a chance to ponder the VRM concept a bit, I believe it needs
to be made VERY clear at the next meeting that VRM can be a
consideration for changes made in the future (i.e., a suggestion is made
to do XYZ on this piece of ABC land.....well....some folks think that
the pristine beauty may be impacted....OK....time for discussion,
looking at alternatives, compromising, etc). HOWEVER, an existing trail
going through an area does NOT qualify to have the VRM method applied to
it. It is already there and VRM will NOT make that trail evaporate away
so all is beautiful again (the greenie's view, not mine). IMO, we won't
be able to make VRM go away...so....I believe we must manage the process
in such a way as to restrict the negative impact it can have on our form
of recreation. (Just an idea to toss around the discussion court.)
As for the ACEC....that is, in my opinion, a spin off of the Endangered
Species Act which could be applied to more than just endangered species.
Again, I do not believe we can have this removed from the RAMP, but we
can take steps to negate its impact on OHV travel. I wish I had more
knowledge of the scientific side of these issues, but it would seem that
anything brought up as ACEC must be supported by accepted scientific and
economic proof (something along the lines of a full blow environmental
assessment). By getting wording similar to this in the plan, it will
prevent someone's opinion from becoming ACEC (at least, that is my
hope).
Last...I am still thinking that the Jeep cam with high bandwidth video
might be a valid idea. If we can't get more of the members involved
with their own hobby at land issue level, they might very well be the
way in which most experience their trail rides in 10 years. (Sad but oh
so possibly true)
Thanks again from giving up your Saturday. It is obvious that you
walked away with a heightened understanding of what the OHV community is
up against.
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: wereazmeyer [mailto:dmeyer24@c...]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 11:12 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: BLM Meeting in Prescott
Jim,
Being a "BLM first-timer" I will defer to Russell for the issues
directly impacting OHV use, but I would like to share a few
observations that got me somewhat wound-up.
First, in the Land Actions group the BLM wanted us to comment,
identify, and suggest parcels of land that could be exchanged
without establishing any metric for equivalent value or motivation
for the exchange (even though it was not directly stated it appears
to me that the BLM priority is to ease their own land management
issues dealing with non-contiguous parcels of land). What? Are we
playing Risk; I'll trade you Kamchatka for Siam. At least in Risk
you can identify the apparent value to yourself strategically but
here, the BLM has no specifics on these parcels and I certainly have
no intimate knowledge of the little yellow square they've identified
on the map or its value.
Interesting approach, solicit input from the ignorant and emotional
in order to justify some bureaucratic mandate the BLM has to
consolidate to contiguous parcels. (I'm sure I must be confusing
the unstated BLM priority with de-fragmenting a hard drive.) It is
refreshing to see that they accepted, for now, the suggestion that
all land trades currently on the table should be withdrawn.
Second, there seems to be no method, forum, or legislative mandate
that would drive the BLM, the Arizona State Land Department, the
National Forest Service, the National Park Service, the county
boards of supervisors, townships, cities, etc. to align their land-
use visions. Consequently, we have conflicting expectations that
invite competition rather than cooperation. In the resulting
confusion our scramble for the almighty dollar will yield exactly
what we deserve, a megalopolis that will rival Los Angeles.
I can hardly wait; imagine paying $80 to wait in line at JeepLand
for hours, along with hundreds of other OHV enthusiasts, for your
turn to traverse JeepLand's newest trail. Or perhaps Stu's vision
of the future of the AZVJC; one "lucky" driver receives a pass to
JeepLand, the rest of us receive a video transmission in our Jeep
Simulators. (Think about an apparatus that would be capable of
realistically simulating Sharky's driving!)
Third, the BLM introduced some clever acronyms that
represent concepts or designations that appear to be other means
to "condemn" the land. Take the acronyms ACEC, meaning Areas of
Critical Environmental Concern, and VRM, meaning Visual Resource
Management, as two examples. The later implies that if a trail or
road is interfering with one's ability to take pleasure in some
pristine vista the BLM is not effectively executing their
responsibility in Visual Resource Management; consequence, close the
road or trail. Slap the ACEC moniker on another parcel and the
consequence is the same. Where is the due process, or due diligence?
It makes one ponder however; could we use VRM to rid the
AZVJC of some those unsightly "square-headlight" vehicles posing as
real jeeps?
Overall, definitely an eye-opener as Stu indicated; damn there is a
lot of work to do. The consequences of inaction are mind boggling,
I'm not sure if I should thank you for the experience or slash your
MTRs. ;-)
Bruce
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Jim (and all),
>
> The Recreation work group was pretty well behaved and I was
pleased with
> the variety of issues that were brought to the table. From what I
could
> see, none were aimed at reducing our preferred method of recreating
> (ScottM, feel free to chime in and give your opinion here if you so
> desire). If Jim perceived me as getting loud a few times, it was
due to
> my passion for the topic being discussed. ;>)
>
> We had a dispersed group in that we had quad/bike users,
> Jeepers/wheelers, RVers that like to do light Jeepin' when
camping, one
> guy who flies his light aircraft into old air strips to camp and
explore
> (now that is a different approach to getting to a camp spot), and a
> Jeeper who's main interest is in Geocaching. Our moderators were
pretty
> much on the ball and one of the two BLM employees was a good
> acquaintance from last years OHV Conference.
>
> We touched on issues (and even some potential solutions) ranging
from
> weekend "junk" shooters to homeless people to camping access to
> geocaching and quite a variety of ways in which these things and
many
> others could impact our use of BLM going into the future. We
tried, as
> best we could, to suggest items that could be included in the
resource
> management plan that would allow for the handling of possible
issues
> well into the future, should the need arise.....we did this in
hopes
> that the plan would not need to be heavily revised but that a part
of
> the plan, which had not yet been implemented, so to speak, could be
> brought into action. I guess you could say that we were working
to make
> sure that the plan had enough flexibility built into it that we
could
> continue to manage the resources without the need to have a new
plan
> developed.
>
> I too was happy with the turn out but I got the impression that
many of
> the folks were not OHVers from the valley but rather folks from the
> Prescott/Dewey area. While they certainly have a vested interest
in the
> management plan, it is just as much YOUR plan as it is
theirs....and you
> need to be involved in its development. This single point can not
be
> emphasized enough!
>
> I also want to personally thank Bruce Meyer and Nichole Freemon for
> coming to the meeting. They were "BLM first timers" and I think I
can
> safely say they walked away with a new awareness of the issues
that are
> eroding away at our ability to simply go Jeepin'. I enjoyed the
> conversation during the drive up and back and look forward to our
next
> meeting.
>
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hackle [mailto:hackle@q...]
> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 4:32 PM
> To: Az_Vjc
> Subject: [az_vjc] BLM Meeting in Prescott
>
> I would say there were 50 to 60 people at the meeting. Over
half
> were in
> RED and by a show of hands about 80% were OHV. As we had a large
group
> we
> split up to every group to get as much info as possible. Stu and
Scott
> M.
> went to Recreation, Rick N., and Nichole went to roads and trails,
Russ
> G.,
> Rico G. and Bruce M. went to Land issues, Randy D. and myself went
to
> Resources.
>
> Randy and I seemed to be in the largest group of
> anti-recreationists. One
> guy wanted to know what could be done to eliminate noise from I-10
> effecting
> the Big Horn Sheep in the area west of White Tanks. I suggested ear
> plugs.
> The anti- recreationists are trying to get as much Wilderness area
as
> they
> can. I had a note installed in the record to the effect no new
> Wilderness
> areas. They are trying to do this by dividing up and each area
suggest a
> different area. The BLM stated that they can not make a Wilderness
area
> but
> can make a Wilderness Study area. I asked how a study area would be
> managed
> until Congress makes the decision. It will be managed as a
Wilderness
> area!
> I pointed out that this basically made it an illegal Wilderness
area the
> BLM
> agreed. We have no real threaten species in this area so this
should not
> effect our trails.
> I heard Stu getting loud a couple times and will leave it to
him
> to tell
> everyone what he learned in the Recreation group.
> The Trails group was surprised to only have maps available
that
> did not
> show any of the Enterprise team trails. I was promised by the BLM
that
> at
> the next meeting they will have the complete set of maps. They
will also
> have several meetings to go over trails exclusively.
> Russ and Bruce made the point in the Land meeting that we
wanted
> all areas
> taken off the table for trade. One of them will need to add what
info
> they
> feel is needed.
> Overall we had a strong showing and the BLM reps noted
several
> times that
> this was the best meeting to date.
> Last note we all need to be involved in this process.
Overwhelm
> them with
> numbers and Red Shirts. Jim F.
>
> "I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member"
Groucho
> Marx
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
81172 From: <sharxjeep@c...>
Date: Sun Mar 23, 2003 2:32am
Subject: [OT]Response to : Support Our Troops letters
Hey all
For starters I have responded individually to each of the responses I
recieved RE: supporting our troops so as not to tie up the the Jeep club
e-mail with an OT topic.
But I do want to say that the statement I made was re: that I totally
disagree with comparing land use meetings with supporting our troops(not even
in the same ball park). We walk a fine line in this group everyday with the
size of this club. I will be the first to say that politics and religion can
bring it down quick...however are land issue not political?...Maybe that is
why attendance is so low....I agree that we need the land issues and the
letter writing and Im doing my part, but of "All" the OT post in here I
personally feel that this was the last issue that should have been flamed or
disputed. Just my good ole AMERICAN opinion.
Late
Sharky
81173 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Sun Mar 23, 2003 7:48am
Subject: RE: Re: BLM Meeting in Prescott
Randy and I were both involved in the Monument group yesterday. This is the
largest area of ACEC. We found out that these are not all bad they can be
written to include motorized use. Each one can be written differently as one
gentleman said "it is in the details". Most of these ACEC in this area are
to protect the cultural sites so some roads would be closed or gated to keep
traffic from destroying them and reduce the pottery thieves. But not all
traffic in the area will need to stopped. Thanks to everyone that has been
involved in the first phase of the workshops. Jim F.
"I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member" Groucho
Marx
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 8:27 AM
To: 'wereazmeyer'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: BLM Meeting in Prescott
Jim,
Bruce,
An outstanding summary of your perspective on yesterday's meeting.
Nicely done!
Having had a chance to ponder the VRM concept a bit, I believe it needs
to be made VERY clear at the next meeting that VRM can be a
consideration for changes made in the future (i.e., a suggestion is made
to do XYZ on this piece of ABC land.....well....some folks think that
the pristine beauty may be impacted....OK....time for discussion,
looking at alternatives, compromising, etc). HOWEVER, an existing trail
going through an area does NOT qualify to have the VRM method applied to
it. It is already there and VRM will NOT make that trail evaporate away
so all is beautiful again (the greenie's view, not mine). IMO, we won't
be able to make VRM go away...so....I believe we must manage the process
in such a way as to restrict the negative impact it can have on our form
of recreation. (Just an idea to toss around the discussion court.)
As for the ACEC....that is, in my opinion, a spin off of the Endangered
Species Act which could be applied to more than just endangered species.
Again, I do not believe we can have this removed from the RAMP, but we
can take steps to negate its impact on OHV travel. I wish I had more
knowledge of the scientific side of these issues, but it would seem that
anything brought up as ACEC must be supported by accepted scientific and
economic proof (something along the lines of a full blow environmental
assessment). By getting wording similar to this in the plan, it will
prevent someone's opinion from becoming ACEC (at least, that is my
hope).
Last...I am still thinking that the Jeep cam with high bandwidth video
might be a valid idea. If we can't get more of the members involved
with their own hobby at land issue level, they might very well be the
way in which most experience their trail rides in 10 years. (Sad but oh
so possibly true)
Thanks again from giving up your Saturday. It is obvious that you
walked away with a heightened understanding of what the OHV community is
up against.
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: wereazmeyer [mailto:dmeyer24@c...]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 11:12 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: BLM Meeting in Prescott
Jim,
Being a "BLM first-timer" I will defer to Russell for the issues
directly impacting OHV use, but I would like to share a few
observations that got me somewhat wound-up.
First, in the Land Actions group the BLM wanted us to comment,
identify, and suggest parcels of land that could be exchanged
without establishing any metric for equivalent value or motivation
for the exchange (even though it was not directly stated it appears
to me that the BLM priority is to ease their own land management
issues dealing with non-contiguous parcels of land). What? Are we
playing Risk; I'll trade you Kamchatka for Siam. At least in Risk
you can identify the apparent value to yourself strategically but
here, the BLM has no specifics on these parcels and I certainly have
no intimate knowledge of the little yellow square they've identified
on the map or its value.
Interesting approach, solicit input from the ignorant and emotional
in order to justify some bureaucratic mandate the BLM has to
consolidate to contiguous parcels. (I'm sure I must be confusing
the unstated BLM priority with de-fragmenting a hard drive.) It is
refreshing to see that they accepted, for now, the suggestion that
all land trades currently on the table should be withdrawn.
Second, there seems to be no method, forum, or legislative mandate
that would drive the BLM, the Arizona State Land Department, the
National Forest Service, the National Park Service, the county
boards of supervisors, townships, cities, etc. to align their land-
use visions. Consequently, we have conflicting expectations that
invite competition rather than cooperation. In the resulting
confusion our scramble for the almighty dollar will yield exactly
what we deserve, a megalopolis that will rival Los Angeles.
I can hardly wait; imagine paying $80 to wait in line at JeepLand
for hours, along with hundreds of other OHV enthusiasts, for your
turn to traverse JeepLand's newest trail. Or perhaps Stu's vision
of the future of the AZVJC; one "lucky" driver receives a pass to
JeepLand, the rest of us receive a video transmission in our Jeep
Simulators. (Think about an apparatus that would be capable of
realistically simulating Sharky's driving!)
Third, the BLM introduced some clever acronyms that
represent concepts or designations that appear to be other means
to "condemn" the land. Take the acronyms ACEC, meaning Areas of
Critical Environmental Concern, and VRM, meaning Visual Resource
Management, as two examples. The later implies that if a trail or
road is interfering with one's ability to take pleasure in some
pristine vista the BLM is not effectively executing their
responsibility in Visual Resource Management; consequence, close the
road or trail. Slap the ACEC moniker on another parcel and the
consequence is the same. Where is the due process, or due diligence?
It makes one ponder however; could we use VRM to rid the
AZVJC of some those unsightly "square-headlight" vehicles posing as
real jeeps?
Overall, definitely an eye-opener as Stu indicated; damn there is a
lot of work to do. The consequences of inaction are mind boggling,
I'm not sure if I should thank you for the experience or slash your
MTRs. ;-)
Bruce
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Jim (and all),
>
> The Recreation work group was pretty well behaved and I was
pleased with
> the variety of issues that were brought to the table. From what I
could
> see, none were aimed at reducing our preferred method of recreating
> (ScottM, feel free to chime in and give your opinion here if you so
> desire). If Jim perceived me as getting loud a few times, it was
due to
> my passion for the topic being discussed. ;>)
>
> We had a dispersed group in that we had quad/bike users,
> Jeepers/wheelers, RVers that like to do light Jeepin' when
camping, one
> guy who flies his light aircraft into old air strips to camp and
explore
> (now that is a different approach to getting to a camp spot), and a
> Jeeper who's main interest is in Geocaching. Our moderators were
pretty
> much on the ball and one of the two BLM employees was a good
> acquaintance from last years OHV Conference.
>
> We touched on issues (and even some potential solutions) ranging
from
> weekend "junk" shooters to homeless people to camping access to
> geocaching and quite a variety of ways in which these things and
many
> others could impact our use of BLM going into the future. We
tried, as
> best we could, to suggest items that could be included in the
resource
> management plan that would allow for the handling of possible
issues
> well into the future, should the need arise.....we did this in
hopes
> that the plan would not need to be heavily revised but that a part
of
> the plan, which had not yet been implemented, so to speak, could be
> brought into action. I guess you could say that we were working
to make
> sure that the plan had enough flexibility built into it that we
could
> continue to manage the resources without the need to have a new
plan
> developed.
>
> I too was happy with the turn out but I got the impression that
many of
> the folks were not OHVers from the valley but rather folks from the
> Prescott/Dewey area. While they certainly have a vested interest
in the
> management plan, it is just as much YOUR plan as it is
theirs....and you
> need to be involved in its development. This single point can not
be
> emphasized enough!
>
> I also want to personally thank Bruce Meyer and Nichole Freemon for
> coming to the meeting. They were "BLM first timers" and I think I
can
> safely say they walked away with a new awareness of the issues
that are
> eroding away at our ability to simply go Jeepin'. I enjoyed the
> conversation during the drive up and back and look forward to our
next
> meeting.
>
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hackle [mailto:hackle@q...]
> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 4:32 PM
> To: Az_Vjc
> Subject: [az_vjc] BLM Meeting in Prescott
>
> I would say there were 50 to 60 people at the meeting. Over
half
> were in
> RED and by a show of hands about 80% were OHV. As we had a large
group
> we
> split up to every group to get as much info as possible. Stu and
Scott
> M.
> went to Recreation, Rick N., and Nichole went to roads and trails,
Russ
> G.,
> Rico G. and Bruce M. went to Land issues, Randy D. and myself went
to
> Resources.
>
> Randy and I seemed to be in the largest group of
> anti-recreationists. One
> guy wanted to know what could be done to eliminate noise from I-10
> effecting
> the Big Horn Sheep in the area west of White Tanks. I suggested ear
> plugs.
> The anti- recreationists are trying to get as much Wilderness area
as
> they
> can. I had a note installed in the record to the effect no new
> Wilderness
> areas. They are trying to do this by dividing up and each area
suggest a
> different area. The BLM stated that they can not make a Wilderness
area
> but
> can make a Wilderness Study area. I asked how a study area would be
> managed
> until Congress makes the decision. It will be managed as a
Wilderness
> area!
> I pointed out that this basically made it an illegal Wilderness
area the
> BLM
> agreed. We have no real threaten species in this area so this
should not
> effect our trails.
> I heard Stu getting loud a couple times and will leave it to
him
> to tell
> everyone what he learned in the Recreation group.
> The Trails group was surprised to only have maps available
that
> did not
> show any of the Enterprise team trails. I was promised by the BLM
that
> at
> the next meeting they will have the complete set of maps. They
will also
> have several meetings to go over trails exclusively.
> Russ and Bruce made the point in the Land meeting that we
wanted
> all areas
> taken off the table for trade. One of them will need to add what
info
> they
> feel is needed.
> Overall we had a strong showing and the BLM reps noted
several
> times that
> this was the best meeting to date.
> Last note we all need to be involved in this process.
Overwhelm
> them with
> numbers and Red Shirts. Jim F.
>
> "I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member"
Groucho
> Marx
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
81174 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Sun Mar 23, 2003 8:04am
Subject: RE: [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
Chris,
Please understand that I very much consider myself to be as patriotic as
any red blooded American. I am the 3rd generation in my family to have
served in the military. My grandfather was in the Great War, my father
in WWII, and I did an 8 year hitch during the Vietnam era. I honestly
do believe I am patriotic, enough so that I was willing to die for my
country while defending it (and I still would if need be).
That being said, if you want THE TROOPS to know you are supporting them,
then give them one hell of a WELCOME BACK when they return....in other
words, when THEY can see you are supporting them. I can tell you, from
first hand experience, there is nothing better than to be welcomed back
home by a HUGE crowd of people after you have been deployed for a long
period of time.
For my take, the recent troop rally discussion seemed to be born around
the idea of showing the anti-war protestors that others don't share the
same opinion. To me, that is showing the anti-war folks that we don't
agree with them (and I don't)....but I don't see our troops getting much
from this message. Arguing with an anti-war protestor is like arguing
with a frickin; anti-recreationist. Fight the fights you know you can
win.
Like I said, I'll show up and WELCOME THEM HOME so THEY can see that I
support THEM!
And I do look forward to seeing you on the next trail run, LU meeting,
or where ever we should happen to bump into each other.
Take care........Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris [mailto:my1stjeep@e...]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 11:21 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
I must have missed the boat when they handed out he mind reading part
of the brain. Seems like everyone knows what others are thinking
these days.
While it was posted here and people who feel the same attended I
missed the post that informed eveyone they had to feel the same way.
As far as it being OT, I agree that is why I added it to the subject
line. And while it is maybe not Jeep related the fact that we are at
war and it was to show our support for the men and women that give us
each the freedom to speak our minds, have the opportunity to attend a
rally or land use meeting and even our right to wheel our Jeeps kind
of means it does involve all of us on some level (IMO). Heck if the
armed forces don't defend our freedom we may not have land to wheel
on in the future no matter what anyone says.
As far as the issue of sad about where our support lies, while I
agree often times support at land use meetings is lower that it
should be, one is talking about loss of land the other loss of life.
If we lose land we can fight to get it back, lives you can never get
back. Right now we are fighting to be sure that we don't lose over 3
thousand lives again due to senseless attacks. THink of it another
way, which is worse if you lose your home or your child or maybe your
spouse.
I will see many of you at the next land use meeting I can make and I
will also see whoever shows up to the next support showing for our
troops.
Chris
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...> wrote:
> Hi Sharky,
>
> I think the problem with the rally post is that it is not a Jeep
related
> issue. The bottom line (in my opinion) is that land use issues are
ontopic
> and troop support rallys are offtopic. Just because I don't support
the
> rally being a club run doesn't mean I don't support the troops or
the idea
> of a rally. So if you feel that the rally idea hasn't gotten
deserved
> attention its probably because other people come here to read Jeep
stuff and
> ignore the rest that isn't Jeep related.
>
> Another problem is that somebody needs to pickup the ball and lead
this
> rally. Whoever takes on this responsibility will need to coordinate
with law
> enforcement in advance as well as put out some notices to the local
media.
> Maybe it won't be an AZVJC function but there needs to be a leader
> nonetheless and a contact list generated of interested people. Once
this
> person has setup the event then by all means I hope they post an
invitation
> on the list so that individual AZVJC members that are interested
can attend.
> Those that don't like it can stay home (or organize a counter
demonstration
> across the street)
>
> Why don't I support this as an AZVJC function? First of all the only
> politics this group really deals with are land issues and the
majority of us
> feel the same about that topic. When we start talking about war and
the
> politics surrounding it then you start to divide the group. I know
there are
> liberal and conservative members here and of course there probably
are
> Jeepers participating in both types of rallys. Who are we to tell
the rest
> of the group which way to think?
>
> That being said, I'm proudly flyin the Stars and Stripes in front
of my
> house in support of the troops and find myself glued to Fox News
these days.
> I've even got a TV tuner in my PC and I'm listening as I type this.
<Grin>
>
>
> That's my take on it all.
>
> Scott K
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sharxjeep [mailto:sharxjeep@c...]
> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:56 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>
>
> Its funny you should mention that considering the support our
> troops rally got less attention from the club than the land use
> issues. Somethings are just more important than others at certain
> times.
> To each their own but at this time my money is on a much bigger
> picture.
>
> Sharky
>
>
>
>
> > > Stu,
> > > It is a shame that these club members show so much effort for
> > supporting
> > > our troops (rightfully so) and only a fraction get as
> enthusiastic
> > about
> > > land use meetings.
> > > I have my reasons for staying at home and not being able to
> > participate
> > > in any activities with the club.
> > > A club run showing support for our troops in Prescott would have
> > been
> > > the way to go.
> > >
> > > Joey K
> > > http://www.desertjeep.com
> > > 93YJ
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 7:06 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > >
> > > Wow.....that idea went over like a lead brick.
> > >
> > > <shrug>
> > >
> > >
> > > Stu Olson
> > > www.stu-offroad.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 4:04 PM
> > > To: Bob Jacques; jeff.trujillo@m...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > >
> > > Even a better idea.....hit the BLM land use meeting tomorrow AM
in
> > > Prescott and then do Support Our Troops afterwards! Might as
well
> > > kill
> two
> > birds
> > > with the same stone!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Stu Olson
> > > www.stu-offroad.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Bob Jacques [mailto:bjacques@m...]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 2:04 PM
> > > To: 'jeff.trujillo@m...'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't know if it can be organized that quick ! but hopefully
it
> > will
> > > all
> > > be over by next weekend!! (except for the mop up )... How about
> > posting
> > > it
> > > as a run right now to see who signs up? I can see it now,
100+
> > jeeps
> > > cruisin with flags a flyin' ! Pretty impressive show of
> support!!!
> > > Bob
> > > J
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: jeff.trujillo@m...
> > > [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 1:42 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > >
> > >
> > > I think there are only three of us that are willing to do this!
I
> > am up
> > > for
> > > saturday but we need more people!!!
> > >
> > > Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > > Field Service Representative
> > > MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > > jeff.trujillo@m...
> > > Voice:(480)346-6249
> > > Fax:(480)346-6813
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Chris [mailto:my1stjeep@e...]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 1:40 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > >
> > >
> > > Do we want to do this on the weekend? Not sure if we target
the
> > > Capitol we would get much response over the weekend. Then again
> if
> > > we do it during the week in the evening it wouldn't be any
better
> > > and I am not sure that many can take time off work. So how
about
> > > this weekend sometime? Saturday evening? Maybe cruise down
Mill?
> > >
> > > Keep throwing out ideas everyone.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > -
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "intertwingled"
> <intertwingled@q...>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > anti-dorks = peacemongering surrender monkeys?
> > > >
> > > > Count me in. I hate those guys.
> > > >
> > > > At 08:22 PM 3/21/03 -0000, you wrote:
> > > > >Only if I can bring my baseball bat.
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, jeff.trujillo@m... wrote:
> > > > >> So are we going to try and put something together? I'm in
for
> > > doing
> > > > >a demo
> > > > >> at the capital across the street from the anti-dorks :o)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > > > >> Field Service Representative
> > > > >> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > > > >> jeff.trujillo@m...
> > > > >> Voice:(480)346-6249
> > > > >> Fax:(480)346-6813
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> From: Bill [mailto:bill@j...]
> > > > >> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 11:47 AM
> > > > >> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >> Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I'm in also
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --------------
> > > > >> Bill - Jeeps Only
> > > > >> http://www.jeepsonly.com
> > > > >> A Yahoo-style directory/search engine of links for Jeeps
only
> > > > >> -----------------------------------------------------------
--
> -
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <my1stjeep@e...>
> wrote:
> > > > >> > Anyone up for putting on a public display to show our
> > > support?
> > > > >All
> > > > >> > I keep seeing is people protesting and thinking this has
to
> > > to
> > > > >with
> > > > >> > oil or how it is going to affect the dollars spent on
their
> > > > >> > education.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Just a thought.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Chris
> > > > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > -
> > > ----
> > > > >--
> > > > >> -
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> -----------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > -
> > > ----
> > > > >--------
> > > > >> The information transmitted is intended only for the person
> or
> > > > >entity to
> > > > >> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> > > > >privileged
> > > > >> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or
other
> > > use
> > > > >of, or
> > > > >> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
> > > persons
> > > > >or
> > > > >> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > > >> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this
in
> > > > >error, please
> > > > >> contact the sender by email and delete the material from
any
> > > > >computer..
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > even the safest course is fraught with peril
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > ----
> > > ----
> > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
> > entity to
> > > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> privileged
> > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other
use
> > of, or
> > > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
> persons
> > or
> > > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> error,
> > > please
> > > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> > computer..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
81175 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Sun Mar 23, 2003 8:23am
Subject: Re: [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
Agreed
On Sunday, March 23, 2003, at 07:25 AM, Stu Olson wrote:
> Well said, Scott.
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Kruize [mailto:skruize@c...]
> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:48 PM
> To: 'sharxjeep'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>
> Hi Sharky,
>
> I think the problem with the rally post is that it is not a Jeep
> related
> issue. The bottom line (in my opinion) is that land use issues are
> ontopic
> and troop support rallys are offtopic. Just because I don't support the
> rally being a club run doesn't mean I don't support the troops or the
> idea
> of a rally. So if you feel that the rally idea hasn't gotten deserved
> attention its probably because other people come here to read Jeep
> stuff
> and
> ignore the rest that isn't Jeep related.
>
> Another problem is that somebody needs to pickup the ball and lead this
> rally. Whoever takes on this responsibility will need to coordinate
> with
> law
> enforcement in advance as well as put out some notices to the local
> media.
> Maybe it won't be an AZVJC function but there needs to be a leader
> nonetheless and a contact list generated of interested people. Once
> this
> person has setup the event then by all means I hope they post an
> invitation
> on the list so that individual AZVJC members that are interested can
> attend.
> Those that don't like it can stay home (or organize a counter
> demonstration
> across the street)
>
> Why don't I support this as an AZVJC function? First of all the only
> politics this group really deals with are land issues and the majority
> of us
> feel the same about that topic. When we start talking about war and the
> politics surrounding it then you start to divide the group. I know
> there
> are
> liberal and conservative members here and of course there probably are
> Jeepers participating in both types of rallys. Who are we to tell the
> rest
> of the group which way to think?
>
> That being said, I'm proudly flyin the Stars and Stripes in front of my
> house in support of the troops and find myself glued to Fox News these
> days.
> I've even got a TV tuner in my PC and I'm listening as I type this.
> <Grin>
>
>
> That's my take on it all.
>
> Scott K
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sharxjeep [mailto:sharxjeep@c...]
> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:56 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>
>
> Its funny you should mention that considering the support our
> troops rally got less attention from the club than the land use
> issues. Somethings are just more important than others at certain
> times.
> To each their own but at this time my money is on a much bigger
> picture.
>
> Sharky
>
>
>
>
>>> Stu,
>>> It is a shame that these club members show so much effort for
>> supporting
>>> our troops (rightfully so) and only a fraction get as
> enthusiastic
>> about
>>> land use meetings.
>>> I have my reasons for staying at home and not being able to
>> participate
>>> in any activities with the club.
>>> A club run showing support for our troops in Prescott would have
>> been
>>> the way to go.
>>>
>>> Joey K
>>> http://www.desertjeep.com
>>> 93YJ
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
>>> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 7:06 PM
>>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>>>
>>> Wow.....that idea went over like a lead brick.
>>>
>>> <shrug>
>>>
>>>
>>> Stu Olson
>>> www.stu-offroad.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
>>> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 4:04 PM
>>> To: Bob Jacques; jeff.trujillo@m...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>>>
>>> Even a better idea.....hit the BLM land use meeting tomorrow AM in
>>> Prescott and then do Support Our Troops afterwards! Might as well
>>> kill
> two
>> birds
>>> with the same stone!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Stu Olson
>>> www.stu-offroad.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Bob Jacques [mailto:bjacques@m...]
>>> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 2:04 PM
>>> To: 'jeff.trujillo@m...'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know if it can be organized that quick ! but hopefully it
>> will
>>> all
>>> be over by next weekend!! (except for the mop up )... How about
>> posting
>>> it
>>> as a run right now to see who signs up? I can see it now, 100+
>> jeeps
>>> cruisin with flags a flyin' ! Pretty impressive show of
> support!!!
>>> Bob
>>> J
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: jeff.trujillo@m...
>>> [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
>>> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 1:42 PM
>>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>>>
>>>
>>> I think there are only three of us that are willing to do this! I
>> am up
>>> for
>>> saturday but we need more people!!!
>>>
>>> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
>>> Field Service Representative
>>> MD Helicopters, Inc.
>>
81162 From: Chris <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Sat Mar 22, 2003 10:21pm
Subject: [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
I must have missed the boat when they handed out he mind reading part
of the brain. Seems like everyone knows what others are thinking
these days.
While it was posted here and people who feel the same attended I
missed the post that informed eveyone they had to feel the same way.
As far as it being OT, I agree that is why I added it to the subject
line. And while it is maybe not Jeep related the fact that we are at
war and it was to show our support for the men and women that give us
each the freedom to speak our minds, have the opportunity to attend a
rally or land use meeting and even our right to wheel our Jeeps kind
of means it does involve all of us on some level (IMO). Heck if the
armed forces don't defend our freedom we may not have land to wheel
on in the future no matter what anyone says.
As far as the issue of sad about where our support lies, while I
agree often times support at land use meetings is lower that it
should be, one is talking about loss of land the other loss of life.
If we lose land we can fight to get it back, lives you can never get
back. Right now we are fighting to be sure that we don't lose over 3
thousand lives again due to senseless attacks. THink of it another
way, which is worse if you lose your home or your child or maybe your
spouse.
I will see many of you at the next land use meeting I can make and I
will also see whoever shows up to the next support showing for our
troops.
Chris
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...> wrote:
> Hi Sharky,
>
> I think the problem with the rally post is that it is not a Jeep
related
> issue. The bottom line (in my opinion) is that land use issues are
ontopic
> and troop support rallys are offtopic. Just because I don't support
the
> rally being a club run doesn't mean I don't support the troops or
the idea
> of a rally. So if you feel that the rally idea hasn't gotten
deserved
> attention its probably because other people come here to read Jeep
stuff and
> ignore the rest that isn't Jeep related.
>
> Another problem is that somebody needs to pickup the ball and lead
this
> rally. Whoever takes on this responsibility will need to coordinate
with law
> enforcement in advance as well as put out some notices to the local
media.
> Maybe it won't be an AZVJC function but there needs to be a leader
> nonetheless and a contact list generated of interested people. Once
this
> person has setup the event then by all means I hope they post an
invitation
> on the list so that individual AZVJC members that are interested
can attend.
> Those that don't like it can stay home (or organize a counter
demonstration
> across the street)
>
> Why don't I support this as an AZVJC function? First of all the only
> politics this group really deals with are land issues and the
majority of us
> feel the same about that topic. When we start talking about war and
the
> politics surrounding it then you start to divide the group. I know
there are
> liberal and conservative members here and of course there probably
are
> Jeepers participating in both types of rallys. Who are we to tell
the rest
> of the group which way to think?
>
> That being said, I'm proudly flyin the Stars and Stripes in front
of my
> house in support of the troops and find myself glued to Fox News
these days.
> I've even got a TV tuner in my PC and I'm listening as I type this.
<Grin>
>
>
> That's my take on it all.
>
> Scott K
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sharxjeep [mailto:sharxjeep@c...]
> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:56 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>
>
> Its funny you should mention that considering the support our
> troops rally got less attention from the club than the land use
> issues. Somethings are just more important than others at certain
> times.
> To each their own but at this time my money is on a much bigger
> picture.
>
> Sharky
>
>
>
>
> > > Stu,
> > > It is a shame that these club members show so much effort for
> > supporting
> > > our troops (rightfully so) and only a fraction get as
> enthusiastic
> > about
> > > land use meetings.
> > > I have my reasons for staying at home and not being able to
> > participate
> > > in any activities with the club.
> > > A club run showing support for our troops in Prescott would have
> > been
> > > the way to go.
> > >
> > > Joey K
> > > http://www.desertjeep.com
> > > 93YJ
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 7:06 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > >
> > > Wow.....that idea went over like a lead brick.
> > >
> > > <shrug>
> > >
> > >
> > > Stu Olson
> > > www.stu-offroad.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 4:04 PM
> > > To: Bob Jacques; jeff.trujillo@m...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > >
> > > Even a better idea.....hit the BLM land use meeting tomorrow AM
in
> > > Prescott and then do Support Our Troops afterwards! Might as
well
> > > kill
> two
> > birds
> > > with the same stone!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Stu Olson
> > > www.stu-offroad.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Bob Jacques [mailto:bjacques@m...]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 2:04 PM
> > > To: 'jeff.trujillo@m...'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't know if it can be organized that quick ! but hopefully
it
> > will
> > > all
> > > be over by next weekend!! (except for the mop up )... How about
> > posting
> > > it
> > > as a run right now to see who signs up? I can see it now,
100+
> > jeeps
> > > cruisin with flags a flyin' ! Pretty impressive show of
> support!!!
> > > Bob
> > > J
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: jeff.trujillo@m...
> > > [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 1:42 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > >
> > >
> > > I think there are only three of us that are willing to do this!
I
> > am up
> > > for
> > > saturday but we need more people!!!
> > >
> > > Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > > Field Service Representative
> > > MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > > jeff.trujillo@m...
> > > Voice:(480)346-6249
> > > Fax:(480)346-6813
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Chris [mailto:my1stjeep@e...]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 1:40 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > >
> > >
> > > Do we want to do this on the weekend? Not sure if we target
the
> > > Capitol we would get much response over the weekend. Then again
> if
> > > we do it during the week in the evening it wouldn't be any
better
> > > and I am not sure that many can take time off work. So how
about
> > > this weekend sometime? Saturday evening? Maybe cruise down
Mill?
> > >
> > > Keep throwing out ideas everyone.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > -
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "intertwingled"
> <intertwingled@q...>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > anti-dorks = peacemongering surrender monkeys?
> > > >
> > > > Count me in. I hate those guys.
> > > >
> > > > At 08:22 PM 3/21/03 -0000, you wrote:
> > > > >Only if I can bring my baseball bat.
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, jeff.trujillo@m... wrote:
> > > > >> So are we going to try and put something together? I'm in
for
> > > doing
> > > > >a demo
> > > > >> at the capital across the street from the anti-dorks :o)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > > > >> Field Service Representative
> > > > >> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > > > >> jeff.trujillo@m...
> > > > >> Voice:(480)346-6249
> > > > >> Fax:(480)346-6813
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> From: Bill [mailto:bill@j...]
> > > > >> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 11:47 AM
> > > > >> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >> Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I'm in also
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --------------
> > > > >> Bill - Jeeps Only
> > > > >> http://www.jeepsonly.com
> > > > >> A Yahoo-style directory/search engine of links for Jeeps
only
> > > > >> -----------------------------------------------------------
--
> -
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <my1stjeep@e...>
> wrote:
> > > > >> > Anyone up for putting on a public display to show our
> > > support?
> > > > >All
> > > > >> > I keep seeing is people protesting and thinking this has
to
> > > to
> > > > >with
> > > > >> > oil or how it is going to affect the dollars spent on
their
> > > > >> > education.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Just a thought.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Chris
> > > > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > -
> > > ----
> > > > >--
> > > > >> -
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> -----------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > -
> > > ----
> > > > >--------
> > > > >> The information transmitted is intended only for the person
> or
> > > > >entity to
> > > > >> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> > > > >privileged
> > > > >> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or
other
> > > use
> > > > >of, or
> > > > >> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
> > > persons
> > > > >or
> > > > >> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > > >> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this
in
> > > > >error, please
> > > > >> contact the sender by email and delete the material from
any
> > > > >computer..
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > even the safest course is fraught with peril
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > ----
> > > ----
> > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
> > entity to
> > > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> privileged
> > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other
use
> > of, or
> > > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
> persons
> > or
> > > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> error,
> > > please
> > > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> > computer..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
81163 From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
Date: Sat Mar 22, 2003 11:07pm
Subject: RE: [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
The "rally" was my very first AZVJC run. I had a helluva
good time. We matched those peacemongers yell for yell,
I think.
Tony
At 10:48 PM 3/22/03 -0700, Scott Kruize wrote:
>Hi Sharky,
>
>I think the problem with the rally post is that it is not a Jeep related
>issue. The bottom line (in my opinion) is that land use issues are ontopic
>and troop support rallys are offtopic. Just because I don't support the
>rally being a club run doesn't mean I don't support the troops or the idea
>of a rally. So if you feel that the rally idea hasn't gotten deserved
>attention its probably because other people come here to read Jeep stuff and
>ignore the rest that isn't Jeep related.
>
>Another problem is that somebody needs to pickup the ball and lead this
>rally. Whoever takes on this responsibility will need to coordinate with law
>enforcement in advance as well as put out some notices to the local media.
>Maybe it won't be an AZVJC function but there needs to be a leader
>nonetheless and a contact list generated of interested people. Once this
>person has setup the event then by all means I hope they post an invitation
>on the list so that individual AZVJC members that are interested can attend.
>Those that don't like it can stay home (or organize a counter demonstration
>across the street)
>
>Why don't I support this as an AZVJC function? First of all the only
>politics this group really deals with are land issues and the majority of us
>feel the same about that topic. When we start talking about war and the
>politics surrounding it then you start to divide the group. I know there are
>liberal and conservative members here and of course there probably are
>Jeepers participating in both types of rallys. Who are we to tell the rest
>of the group which way to think?
>
>That being said, I'm proudly flyin the Stars and Stripes in front of my
>house in support of the troops and find myself glued to Fox News these days.
>I've even got a TV tuner in my PC and I'm listening as I type this. <Grin>
>
>
>That's my take on it all.
>
>Scott K
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: sharxjeep [mailto:sharxjeep@c...]
>Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:56 PM
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>
>
> Its funny you should mention that considering the support our
>troops rally got less attention from the club than the land use
>issues. Somethings are just more important than others at certain
>times.
> To each their own but at this time my money is on a much bigger
>picture.
>
>Sharky
>
>
>
>
>> > Stu,
>> > It is a shame that these club members show so much effort for
>> supporting
>> > our troops (rightfully so) and only a fraction get as
>enthusiastic
>> about
>> > land use meetings.
>> > I have my reasons for staying at home and not being able to
>> participate
>> > in any activities with the club.
>> > A club run showing support for our troops in Prescott would have
>> been
>> > the way to go.
>> >
>> > Joey K
>> > http://www.desertjeep.com
>> > 93YJ
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
>> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 7:06 PM
>> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>> >
>> > Wow.....that idea went over like a lead brick.
>> >
>> > <shrug>
>> >
>> >
>> > Stu Olson
>> > www.stu-offroad.com
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
>> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 4:04 PM
>> > To: Bob Jacques; jeff.trujillo@m...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>> >
>> > Even a better idea.....hit the BLM land use meeting tomorrow AM in
>> > Prescott and then do Support Our Troops afterwards! Might as well
>> > kill
>two
>> birds
>> > with the same stone!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Stu Olson
>> > www.stu-offroad.com
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Bob Jacques [mailto:bjacques@m...]
>> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 2:04 PM
>> > To: 'jeff.trujillo@m...'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>> >
>> >
>> > I don't know if it can be organized that quick ! but hopefully it
>> will
>> > all
>> > be over by next weekend!! (except for the mop up )... How about
>> posting
>> > it
>> > as a run right now to see who signs up? I can see it now, 100+
>> jeeps
>> > cruisin with flags a flyin' ! Pretty impressive show of
>support!!!
>> > Bob
>> > J
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: jeff.trujillo@m...
>> > [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
>> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 1:42 PM
>> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>> >
>> >
>> > I think there are only three of us that are willing to do this! I
>> am up
>> > for
>> > saturday but we need more people!!!
>> >
>> > Jeffrey A. Trujillo
>> > Field Service Representative
>> > MD Helicopters, Inc.
>> > jeff.trujillo@m...
>> > Voice:(480)346-6249
>> > Fax:(480)346-6813
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Chris [mailto:my1stjeep@e...]
>> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 1:40 PM
>> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> > Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>> >
>> >
>> > Do we want to do this on the weekend? Not sure if we target the
>> > Capitol we would get much response over the weekend. Then again
>if
>> > we do it during the week in the evening it wouldn't be any better
>> > and I am not sure that many can take time off work. So how about
>> > this weekend sometime? Saturday evening? Maybe cruise down Mill?
>> >
>> > Keep throwing out ideas everyone.
>> >
>> > Chris
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
>--
>> -
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "intertwingled"
><intertwingled@q...>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > anti-dorks = peacemongering surrender monkeys?
>> > >
>> > > Count me in. I hate those guys.
>> > >
>> > > At 08:22 PM 3/21/03 -0000, you wrote:
>> > > >Only if I can bring my baseball bat.
>> > > >
>> > > >--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, jeff.trujillo@m... wrote:
>> > > >> So are we going to try and put something together? I'm in for
>> > doing
>> > > >a demo
>> > > >> at the capital across the street from the anti-dorks :o)
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
>> > > >> Field Service Representative
>> > > >> MD Helicopters, Inc.
>> > > >> jeff.trujillo@m...
>> > > >> Voice:(480)346-6249
>> > > >> Fax:(480)346-6813
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > > >> From: Bill [mailto:bill@j...]
>> > > >> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 11:47 AM
>> > > >> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>> > > >> Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> I'm in also
>> > > >>
>> > > >> --------------
>> > > >> Bill - Jeeps Only
>> > > >> http://www.jeepsonly.com
>> > > >> A Yahoo-style directory/search engine of links for Jeeps only
>> > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------
>-
>> > > >>
>> > > >> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <my1stjeep@e...>
>wrote:
>> > > >> > Anyone up for putting on a public display to show our
>> > support?
>> > > >All
>> > > >> > I keep seeing is people protesting and thinking this has to
>> > to
>> > > >with
>> > > >> > oil or how it is going to affect the dollars spent on their
>> > > >> > education.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > Just a thought.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > Chris
>> > > >> > -----------------------------------------------------------
>--
>> -
>> > ----
>> > > >--
>> > > >> -
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------
>--
>> -
>> > ----
>> > > >--------
>> > > >> The information transmitted is intended only for the person
>or
>> > > >entity to
>> > > >> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
>> > > >privileged
>> > > >> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other
>> > use
>> > > >of, or
>> > > >> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
>> > persons
>> > > >or
>> > > >> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
>> > > >> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
>> > > >error, please
>> > > >> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
>> > > >computer..
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > even the safest course is fraught with peril
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
>--
>> ----
>> > ----
>> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
>> entity to
>> > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
>privileged
>> > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
>> of, or
>> > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
>persons
>> or
>> > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
>> > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
>error,
>> > please
>> > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
>> computer..
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
--
even the safest course is fraught with peril
81164 From: Bruce Meyer <dmeyer24@c...>
Date: Sat Mar 22, 2003 10:53pm
Subject: test post; ignore
endeavoring to get my account to work correctly
81165 From: jcteel <jcteel1@e...>
Date: Sun Mar 23, 2003 0:20am
Subject: Re: Broken Arrow Next Sunday
Yeah,
I'm thinking about going up Sat. too although I doubt my wife will be
coming along. You might want to check out some of the B&B's. I've
stayed at one up there (during prime season) and it was about the
same price as the average hotel. I think we paid $95. The rooms are
usually so much nicer in a B&B because its actually someone's house
so they take pride in it. We almost always stay at B&B's when we
vacation because the prices are always comparable. Throw in a 'free'
full breakfast for a couple of people and that makes it even a better
deal. I don't recall the name of the one we stayed at but if you
email me offline I can look it up for you.
John
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
wrote:
>
> This will be my wifes first run ever...(believe it or not). Our
plans are to
> go up on Saturday and hang around, stay the night, and then meet
the group
> on Sunday for the run. Anyone else planning on going up early? I
think I got
> a decent rate (for this time of year) at the Sedona days inn
94.00/night.
>
>
> Frank
> BadAzXJ@m...
> http://groups.msn.com/BadAzXJ/badazxj.msnw
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
81166 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Sun Mar 23, 2003 6:23am
Subject: RE: Lowering the price of gasoline and flat tow of my YJ 2768 miles-yep I made it
If our supply was in fact so limited, then why are we not running out? All of the regular stations I frequent have always had gas when I drove up.
So&tell people we are in short supply and then jack up the price so they can feel grateful they are getting gas? What ever&.
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:skruize@cox.net]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:23 PM
To: cowboy7575@aol.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Lowering the price of gasoline and flat tow of my YJ 2768 miles-yep I made it
Mike,
We are on a limited supply of the winter gas. In another week Maricopa county gas stations switch to the summer blend of which there should be plenty of supply. I think prices will drop after that.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: cowboy7575@aol.com [mailto:cowboy7575@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:12 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Lowering the price of gasoline and flat tow of my YJ 2768 miles-yep I made it
I am convinced there is not reason for the gas prices in the Phoenix area to be 20-60 cents higher than anywhere else. I just got back to PA from 18days in the valley, the Flying J on I-10 between Phx and Tucson was $1.60 a gallon, the Flying J on I-40 in Winslow was about the same.......I never paid more than $1.60 a gallon the whole way to PA......the lowest price was at the flying J in Oklahoma City at $1.36 a gallon and the next lowest was at a flying J in VA at $1.41 a gallon. Here in PA it is running $1.55 - $1.65 depending on the station. People in the valley are getting ripped off, the Flying J on I-10 in Phx was over $2.00 a gallon when I left there on the 17th. It seems that gas is priced according to what everyone else is selling it for.......Flying J's cost for fuel is pretty constant around the nation (I know this for a fact as I a good friends with one of their fuel marketers). The price is set according to the competition and demand.........so if you want gas in the valley to go down in price, stop buying it for a week.......watch it drop 30 or 40 cents. The price of gas in the Phoenix area is pure price fixing by the oil companies.
Mike
p.s. got my Wrangler home fine with the flat tow thanks to a 12" lift hitch. Towed great, no problems, drove the speed limit for the most part (except downhill where the handling was just a little funny) and got a whopping 12.5 mpg in my 5.9 ZJ.......
Thanks for all the advice on the tow job and thanks to the member (I forgot his name) that made a great deal on the 12" lift hitch!
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
81167 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Sun Mar 23, 2003 6:25am
Subject: RE: [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
Well said, Scott.
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:skruize@c...]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:48 PM
To: 'sharxjeep'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
Hi Sharky,
I think the problem with the rally post is that it is not a Jeep related
issue. The bottom line (in my opinion) is that land use issues are
ontopic
and troop support rallys are offtopic. Just because I don't support the
rally being a club run doesn't mean I don't support the troops or the
idea
of a rally. So if you feel that the rally idea hasn't gotten deserved
attention its probably because other people come here to read Jeep stuff
and
ignore the rest that isn't Jeep related.
Another problem is that somebody needs to pickup the ball and lead this
rally. Whoever takes on this responsibility will need to coordinate with
law
enforcement in advance as well as put out some notices to the local
media.
Maybe it won't be an AZVJC function but there needs to be a leader
nonetheless and a contact list generated of interested people. Once this
person has setup the event then by all means I hope they post an
invitation
on the list so that individual AZVJC members that are interested can
attend.
Those that don't like it can stay home (or organize a counter
demonstration
across the street)
Why don't I support this as an AZVJC function? First of all the only
politics this group really deals with are land issues and the majority
of us
feel the same about that topic. When we start talking about war and the
politics surrounding it then you start to divide the group. I know there
are
liberal and conservative members here and of course there probably are
Jeepers participating in both types of rallys. Who are we to tell the
rest
of the group which way to think?
That being said, I'm proudly flyin the Stars and Stripes in front of my
house in support of the troops and find myself glued to Fox News these
days.
I've even got a TV tuner in my PC and I'm listening as I type this.
<Grin>
That's my take on it all.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: sharxjeep [mailto:sharxjeep@c...]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:56 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
Its funny you should mention that considering the support our
troops rally got less attention from the club than the land use
issues. Somethings are just more important than others at certain
times.
To each their own but at this time my money is on a much bigger
picture.
Sharky
> > Stu,
> > It is a shame that these club members show so much effort for
> supporting
> > our troops (rightfully so) and only a fraction get as
enthusiastic
> about
> > land use meetings.
> > I have my reasons for staying at home and not being able to
> participate
> > in any activities with the club.
> > A club run showing support for our troops in Prescott would have
> been
> > the way to go.
> >
> > Joey K
> > http://www.desertjeep.com
> > 93YJ
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 7:06 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> >
> > Wow.....that idea went over like a lead brick.
> >
> > <shrug>
> >
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 4:04 PM
> > To: Bob Jacques; jeff.trujillo@m...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> >
> > Even a better idea.....hit the BLM land use meeting tomorrow AM in
> > Prescott and then do Support Our Troops afterwards! Might as well
> > kill
two
> birds
> > with the same stone!
> >
> >
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bob Jacques [mailto:bjacques@m...]
> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 2:04 PM
> > To: 'jeff.trujillo@m...'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> >
> >
> > I don't know if it can be organized that quick ! but hopefully it
> will
> > all
> > be over by next weekend!! (except for the mop up )... How about
> posting
> > it
> > as a run right now to see who signs up? I can see it now, 100+
> jeeps
> > cruisin with flags a flyin' ! Pretty impressive show of
support!!!
> > Bob
> > J
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jeff.trujillo@m...
> > [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 1:42 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> >
> >
> > I think there are only three of us that are willing to do this! I
> am up
> > for
> > saturday but we need more people!!!
> >
> > Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > Field Service Representative
> > MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > jeff.trujillo@m...
> > Voice:(480)346-6249
> > Fax:(480)346-6813
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chris [mailto:my1stjeep@e...]
> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 1:40 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> >
> >
> > Do we want to do this on the weekend? Not sure if we target the
> > Capitol we would get much response over the weekend. Then again
if
> > we do it during the week in the evening it wouldn't be any better
> > and I am not sure that many can take time off work. So how about
> > this weekend sometime? Saturday evening? Maybe cruise down Mill?
> >
> > Keep throwing out ideas everyone.
> >
> > Chris
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "intertwingled"
<intertwingled@q...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > anti-dorks = peacemongering surrender monkeys?
> > >
> > > Count me in. I hate those guys.
> > >
> > > At 08:22 PM 3/21/03 -0000, you wrote:
> > > >Only if I can bring my baseball bat.
> > > >
> > > >--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, jeff.trujillo@m... wrote:
> > > >> So are we going to try and put something together? I'm in for
> > doing
> > > >a demo
> > > >> at the capital across the street from the anti-dorks :o)
> > > >>
> > > >> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > > >> Field Service Representative
> > > >> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > > >> jeff.trujillo@m...
> > > >> Voice:(480)346-6249
> > > >> Fax:(480)346-6813
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: Bill [mailto:bill@j...]
> > > >> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 11:47 AM
> > > >> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > >> Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> I'm in also
> > > >>
> > > >> --------------
> > > >> Bill - Jeeps Only
> > > >> http://www.jeepsonly.com
> > > >> A Yahoo-style directory/search engine of links for Jeeps only
> > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------
-
> > > >>
> > > >> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <my1stjeep@e...>
wrote:
> > > >> > Anyone up for putting on a public display to show our
> > support?
> > > >All
> > > >> > I keep seeing is people protesting and thinking this has to
> > to
> > > >with
> > > >> > oil or how it is going to affect the dollars spent on their
> > > >> > education.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Just a thought.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Chris
> > > >> > -----------------------------------------------------------
--
> -
> > ----
> > > >--
> > > >> -
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -
> > ----
> > > >--------
> > > >> The information transmitted is intended only for the person
or
> > > >entity to
> > > >> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> > > >privileged
> > > >> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other
> > use
> > > >of, or
> > > >> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
> > persons
> > > >or
> > > >> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > >> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> > > >error, please
> > > >> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> > > >computer..
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > even the safest course is fraught with peril
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
> > ----
> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
> entity to
> > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
privileged
> > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
> of, or
> > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
persons
> or
> > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
error,
> > please
> > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> computer..
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
81168 From: sedonacowgirl <cowgirl@s...>
Date: Sun Mar 23, 2003 6:41am
Subject: Re: Broken Arrow Next Sunday
Howdy, Frank!
Red Rock Inn has great rates, too. They are in the Village (about 7
miles south of Sedona proper). (928) 284-2487.
Hope to see "y'all" next weekend!
Happy trails,
Nena
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
wrote:
>
> This will be my wifes first run ever...(believe it or not). Our
plans are to
> go up on Saturday and hang around, stay the night, and then meet
the group
> on Sunday for the run. Anyone else planning on going up early? I
think I got
> a decent rate (for this time of year) at the Sedona days inn
94.00/night.
>
>
> Frank
> BadAzXJ@m...
> http://groups.msn.com/BadAzXJ/badazxj.msnw
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
81169 From: Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...>
Date: Sun Mar 23, 2003 6:57am
Subject: RE: [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
There is a rally in Tucson next Sat. I will try go to that one also.
Ross
-----Original Message-----
From: sharxjeep [mailto:sharxjeep@c...]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:56 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
Its funny you should mention that considering the support our
troops rally got less attention from the club than the land use
issues. Somethings are just more important than others at certain
times.
To each their own but at this time my money is on a much bigger
picture.
Sharky
> > Stu,
> > It is a shame that these club members show so much effort for
> supporting
> > our troops (rightfully so) and only a fraction get as
enthusiastic
> about
> > land use meetings.
> > I have my reasons for staying at home and not being able to
> participate
> > in any activities with the club.
> > A club run showing support for our troops in Prescott would have
> been
> > the way to go.
> >
> > Joey K
> > http://www.desertjeep.com
> > 93YJ
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 7:06 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> >
> > Wow.....that idea went over like a lead brick.
> >
> > <shrug>
> >
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 4:04 PM
> > To: Bob Jacques; jeff.trujillo@m...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> >
> > Even a better idea.....hit the BLM land use meeting tomorrow AM in
> > Prescott
> > and then do Support Our Troops afterwards! Might as well kill
two
> birds
> > with the same stone!
> >
> >
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bob Jacques [mailto:bjacques@m...]
> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 2:04 PM
> > To: 'jeff.trujillo@m...'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> >
> >
> > I don't know if it can be organized that quick ! but hopefully it
> will
> > all
> > be over by next weekend!! (except for the mop up )... How about
> posting
> > it
> > as a run right now to see who signs up? I can see it now, 100+
> jeeps
> > cruisin with flags a flyin' ! Pretty impressive show of
support!!!
> > Bob
> > J
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jeff.trujillo@m...
> > [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 1:42 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> >
> >
> > I think there are only three of us that are willing to do this! I
> am up
> > for
> > saturday but we need more people!!!
> >
> > Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > Field Service Representative
> > MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > jeff.trujillo@m...
> > Voice:(480)346-6249
> > Fax:(480)346-6813
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chris [mailto:my1stjeep@e...]
> > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 1:40 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> >
> >
> > Do we want to do this on the weekend? Not sure if we target the
> > Capitol we would get much response over the weekend. Then again
if
> > we do it during the week in the evening it wouldn't be any better
> > and I am not sure that many can take time off work. So how about
> > this weekend sometime? Saturday evening? Maybe cruise down Mill?
> >
> > Keep throwing out ideas everyone.
> >
> > Chris
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "intertwingled"
<intertwingled@q...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > anti-dorks = peacemongering surrender monkeys?
> > >
> > > Count me in. I hate those guys.
> > >
> > > At 08:22 PM 3/21/03 -0000, you wrote:
> > > >Only if I can bring my baseball bat.
> > > >
> > > >--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, jeff.trujillo@m... wrote:
> > > >> So are we going to try and put something together? I'm in for
> > doing
> > > >a demo
> > > >> at the capital across the street from the anti-dorks :o)
> > > >>
> > > >> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > > >> Field Service Representative
> > > >> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > > >> jeff.trujillo@m...
> > > >> Voice:(480)346-6249
> > > >> Fax:(480)346-6813
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: Bill [mailto:bill@j...]
> > > >> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 11:47 AM
> > > >> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > >> Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> I'm in also
> > > >>
> > > >> --------------
> > > >> Bill - Jeeps Only
> > > >> http://www.jeepsonly.com
> > > >> A Yahoo-style directory/search engine of links for Jeeps only
> > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------
-
> > > >>
> > > >> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <my1stjeep@e...>
wrote:
> > > >> > Anyone up for putting on a public display to show our
> > support?
> > > >All
> > > >> > I keep seeing is people protesting and thinking this has to
> > to
> > > >with
> > > >> > oil or how it is going to affect the dollars spent on their
> > > >> > education.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Just a thought.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Chris
> > > >> > -----------------------------------------------------------
--
> -
> > ----
> > > >--
> > > >> -
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -
> > ----
> > > >--------
> > > >> The information transmitted is intended only for the person
or
> > > >entity to
> > > >> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> > > >privileged
> > > >> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other
> > use
> > > >of, or
> > > >> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
> > persons
> > > >or
> > > >> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > >> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> > > >error, please
> > > >> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> > > >computer..
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > even the safest course is fraught with peril
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
> > ----
> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
> entity to
> > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
privileged
> > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
> of, or
> > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
persons
> or
> > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
error,
> > please
> > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> computer..
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
81170 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Sun Mar 23, 2003 7:20am
Subject: RE: Lowering the price of gasoline and flat tow of my YJ 2768 miles-yep I made it
Costco by me has been out for 2 weeks.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@qwest.net]
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 7:23 AM
To: 'Scott Kruize'; cowboy7575@aol.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Lowering the price of gasoline and flat tow of my YJ 2768 miles-yep I made it
If our supply was in fact so limited, then why are we not running out? All of the regular stations I frequent have always had gas when I drove up.
So&tell people we are in short supply and then jack up the price so they can feel grateful they are getting gas? What ever&.
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kruize [mailto:skruize@cox.net]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:23 PM
To: cowboy7575@aol.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Lowering the price of gasoline and flat tow of my YJ 2768 miles-yep I made it
Mike,
We are on a limited supply of the winter gas. In another week Maricopa county gas stations switch to the summer blend of which there should be plenty of supply. I think prices will drop after that.
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: cowboy7575@aol.com [mailto:cowboy7575@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:12 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Lowering the price of gasoline and flat tow of my YJ 2768 miles-yep I made it
I am convinced there is not reason for the gas prices in the Phoenix area to be 20-60 cents higher than anywhere else. I just got back to PA from 18days in the valley, the Flying J on I-10 between Phx and Tucson was $1.60 a gallon, the Flying J on I-40 in Winslow was about the same.......I never paid more than $1.60 a gallon the whole way to PA......the lowest price was at the flying J in Oklahoma City at $1.36 a gallon and the next lowest was at a flying J in VA at $1.41 a gallon. Here in PA it is running $1.55 - $1.65 depending on the station. People in the valley are getting ripped off, the Flying J on I-10 in Phx was over $2.00 a gallon when I left there on the 17th. It seems that gas is priced according to what everyone else is selling it for.......Flying J's cost for fuel is pretty constant around the nation (I know this for a fact as I a good friends with one of their fuel marketers). The price is set according to the competition and demand.........so if you want gas in the valley to go down in price, stop buying it for a week.......watch it drop 30 or 40 cents. The price of gas in the Phoenix area is pure price fixing by the oil companies.
Mike
p.s. got my Wrangler home fine with the flat tow thanks to a 12" lift hitch. Towed great, no problems, drove the speed limit for the most part (except downhill where the handling was just a little funny) and got a whopping 12.5 mpg in my 5.9 ZJ.......
Thanks for all the advice on the tow job and thanks to the member (I forgot his name) that made a great deal on the 12" lift hitch!
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
81171 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Sun Mar 23, 2003 7:26am
Subject: RE: Re: BLM Meeting in Prescott
Jim,
Bruce,
An outstanding summary of your perspective on yesterday's meeting.
Nicely done!
Having had a chance to ponder the VRM concept a bit, I believe it needs
to be made VERY clear at the next meeting that VRM can be a
consideration for changes made in the future (i.e., a suggestion is made
to do XYZ on this piece of ABC land.....well....some folks think that
the pristine beauty may be impacted....OK....time for discussion,
looking at alternatives, compromising, etc). HOWEVER, an existing trail
going through an area does NOT qualify to have the VRM method applied to
it. It is already there and VRM will NOT make that trail evaporate away
so all is beautiful again (the greenie's view, not mine). IMO, we won't
be able to make VRM go away...so....I believe we must manage the process
in such a way as to restrict the negative impact it can have on our form
of recreation. (Just an idea to toss around the discussion court.)
As for the ACEC....that is, in my opinion, a spin off of the Endangered
Species Act which could be applied to more than just endangered species.
Again, I do not believe we can have this removed from the RAMP, but we
can take steps to negate its impact on OHV travel. I wish I had more
knowledge of the scientific side of these issues, but it would seem that
anything brought up as ACEC must be supported by accepted scientific and
economic proof (something along the lines of a full blow environmental
assessment). By getting wording similar to this in the plan, it will
prevent someone's opinion from becoming ACEC (at least, that is my
hope).
Last...I am still thinking that the Jeep cam with high bandwidth video
might be a valid idea. If we can't get more of the members involved
with their own hobby at land issue level, they might very well be the
way in which most experience their trail rides in 10 years. (Sad but oh
so possibly true)
Thanks again from giving up your Saturday. It is obvious that you
walked away with a heightened understanding of what the OHV community is
up against.
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: wereazmeyer [mailto:dmeyer24@c...]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 11:12 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: BLM Meeting in Prescott
Jim,
Being a "BLM first-timer" I will defer to Russell for the issues
directly impacting OHV use, but I would like to share a few
observations that got me somewhat wound-up.
First, in the Land Actions group the BLM wanted us to comment,
identify, and suggest parcels of land that could be exchanged
without establishing any metric for equivalent value or motivation
for the exchange (even though it was not directly stated it appears
to me that the BLM priority is to ease their own land management
issues dealing with non-contiguous parcels of land). What? Are we
playing Risk; I'll trade you Kamchatka for Siam. At least in Risk
you can identify the apparent value to yourself strategically but
here, the BLM has no specifics on these parcels and I certainly have
no intimate knowledge of the little yellow square they've identified
on the map or its value.
Interesting approach, solicit input from the ignorant and emotional
in order to justify some bureaucratic mandate the BLM has to
consolidate to contiguous parcels. (I'm sure I must be confusing
the unstated BLM priority with de-fragmenting a hard drive.) It is
refreshing to see that they accepted, for now, the suggestion that
all land trades currently on the table should be withdrawn.
Second, there seems to be no method, forum, or legislative mandate
that would drive the BLM, the Arizona State Land Department, the
National Forest Service, the National Park Service, the county
boards of supervisors, townships, cities, etc. to align their land-
use visions. Consequently, we have conflicting expectations that
invite competition rather than cooperation. In the resulting
confusion our scramble for the almighty dollar will yield exactly
what we deserve, a megalopolis that will rival Los Angeles.
I can hardly wait; imagine paying $80 to wait in line at JeepLand
for hours, along with hundreds of other OHV enthusiasts, for your
turn to traverse JeepLand's newest trail. Or perhaps Stu's vision
of the future of the AZVJC; one "lucky" driver receives a pass to
JeepLand, the rest of us receive a video transmission in our Jeep
Simulators. (Think about an apparatus that would be capable of
realistically simulating Sharky's driving!)
Third, the BLM introduced some clever acronyms that
represent concepts or designations that appear to be other means
to "condemn" the land. Take the acronyms ACEC, meaning Areas of
Critical Environmental Concern, and VRM, meaning Visual Resource
Management, as two examples. The later implies that if a trail or
road is interfering with one's ability to take pleasure in some
pristine vista the BLM is not effectively executing their
responsibility in Visual Resource Management; consequence, close the
road or trail. Slap the ACEC moniker on another parcel and the
consequence is the same. Where is the due process, or due diligence?
It makes one ponder however; could we use VRM to rid the
AZVJC of some those unsightly "square-headlight" vehicles posing as
real jeeps?
Overall, definitely an eye-opener as Stu indicated; damn there is a
lot of work to do. The consequences of inaction are mind boggling,
I'm not sure if I should thank you for the experience or slash your
MTRs. ;-)
Bruce
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Jim (and all),
>
> The Recreation work group was pretty well behaved and I was
pleased with
> the variety of issues that were brought to the table. From what I
could
> see, none were aimed at reducing our preferred method of recreating
> (ScottM, feel free to chime in and give your opinion here if you so
> desire). If Jim perceived me as getting loud a few times, it was
due to
> my passion for the topic being discussed. ;>)
>
> We had a dispersed group in that we had quad/bike users,
> Jeepers/wheelers, RVers that like to do light Jeepin' when
camping, one
> guy who flies his light aircraft into old air strips to camp and
explore
> (now that is a different approach to getting to a camp spot), and a
> Jeeper who's main interest is in Geocaching. Our moderators were
pretty
> much on the ball and one of the two BLM employees was a good
> acquaintance from last years OHV Conference.
>
> We touched on issues (and even some potential solutions) ranging
from
> weekend "junk" shooters to homeless people to camping access to
> geocaching and quite a variety of ways in which these things and
many
> others could impact our use of BLM going into the future. We
tried, as
> best we could, to suggest items that could be included in the
resource
> management plan that would allow for the handling of possible
issues
> well into the future, should the need arise.....we did this in
hopes
> that the plan would not need to be heavily revised but that a part
of
> the plan, which had not yet been implemented, so to speak, could be
> brought into action. I guess you could say that we were working
to make
> sure that the plan had enough flexibility built into it that we
could
> continue to manage the resources without the need to have a new
plan
> developed.
>
> I too was happy with the turn out but I got the impression that
many of
> the folks were not OHVers from the valley but rather folks from the
> Prescott/Dewey area. While they certainly have a vested interest
in the
> management plan, it is just as much YOUR plan as it is
theirs....and you
> need to be involved in its development. This single point can not
be
> emphasized enough!
>
> I also want to personally thank Bruce Meyer and Nichole Freemon for
> coming to the meeting. They were "BLM first timers" and I think I
can
> safely say they walked away with a new awareness of the issues
that are
> eroding away at our ability to simply go Jeepin'. I enjoyed the
> conversation during the drive up and back and look forward to our
next
> meeting.
>
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hackle [mailto:hackle@q...]
> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 4:32 PM
> To: Az_Vjc
> Subject: [az_vjc] BLM Meeting in Prescott
>
> I would say there were 50 to 60 people at the meeting. Over
half
> were in
> RED and by a show of hands about 80% were OHV. As we had a large
group
> we
> split up to every group to get as much info as possible. Stu and
Scott
> M.
> went to Recreation, Rick N., and Nichole went to roads and trails,
Russ
> G.,
> Rico G. and Bruce M. went to Land issues, Randy D. and myself went
to
> Resources.
>
> Randy and I seemed to be in the largest group of
> anti-recreationists. One
> guy wanted to know what could be done to eliminate noise from I-10
> effecting
> the Big Horn Sheep in the area west of White Tanks. I suggested ear
> plugs.
> The anti- recreationists are trying to get as much Wilderness area
as
> they
> can. I had a note installed in the record to the effect no new
> Wilderness
> areas. They are trying to do this by dividing up and each area
suggest a
> different area. The BLM stated that they can not make a Wilderness
area
> but
> can make a Wilderness Study area. I asked how a study area would be
> managed
> until Congress makes the decision. It will be managed as a
Wilderness
> area!
> I pointed out that this basically made it an illegal Wilderness
area the
> BLM
> agreed. We have no real threaten species in this area so this
should not
> effect our trails.
> I heard Stu getting loud a couple times and will leave it to
him
> to tell
> everyone what he learned in the Recreation group.
> The Trails group was surprised to only have maps available
that
> did not
> show any of the Enterprise team trails. I was promised by the BLM
that
> at
> the next meeting they will have the complete set of maps. They
will also
> have several meetings to go over trails exclusively.
> Russ and Bruce made the point in the Land meeting that we
wanted
> all areas
> taken off the table for trade. One of them will need to add what
info
> they
> feel is needed.
> Overall we had a strong showing and the BLM reps noted
several
> times that
> this was the best meeting to date.
> Last note we all need to be involved in this process.
Overwhelm
> them with
> numbers and Red Shirts. Jim F.
>
> "I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member"
Groucho
> Marx
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
81172 From: <sharxjeep@c...>
Date: Sun Mar 23, 2003 2:32am
Subject: [OT]Response to : Support Our Troops letters
Hey all
For starters I have responded individually to each of the responses I
recieved RE: supporting our troops so as not to tie up the the Jeep club
e-mail with an OT topic.
But I do want to say that the statement I made was re: that I totally
disagree with comparing land use meetings with supporting our troops(not even
in the same ball park). We walk a fine line in this group everyday with the
size of this club. I will be the first to say that politics and religion can
bring it down quick...however are land issue not political?...Maybe that is
why attendance is so low....I agree that we need the land issues and the
letter writing and Im doing my part, but of "All" the OT post in here I
personally feel that this was the last issue that should have been flamed or
disputed. Just my good ole AMERICAN opinion.
Late
Sharky
81173 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Sun Mar 23, 2003 7:48am
Subject: RE: Re: BLM Meeting in Prescott
Randy and I were both involved in the Monument group yesterday. This is the
largest area of ACEC. We found out that these are not all bad they can be
written to include motorized use. Each one can be written differently as one
gentleman said "it is in the details". Most of these ACEC in this area are
to protect the cultural sites so some roads would be closed or gated to keep
traffic from destroying them and reduce the pottery thieves. But not all
traffic in the area will need to stopped. Thanks to everyone that has been
involved in the first phase of the workshops. Jim F.
"I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member" Groucho
Marx
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 8:27 AM
To: 'wereazmeyer'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: BLM Meeting in Prescott
Jim,
Bruce,
An outstanding summary of your perspective on yesterday's meeting.
Nicely done!
Having had a chance to ponder the VRM concept a bit, I believe it needs
to be made VERY clear at the next meeting that VRM can be a
consideration for changes made in the future (i.e., a suggestion is made
to do XYZ on this piece of ABC land.....well....some folks think that
the pristine beauty may be impacted....OK....time for discussion,
looking at alternatives, compromising, etc). HOWEVER, an existing trail
going through an area does NOT qualify to have the VRM method applied to
it. It is already there and VRM will NOT make that trail evaporate away
so all is beautiful again (the greenie's view, not mine). IMO, we won't
be able to make VRM go away...so....I believe we must manage the process
in such a way as to restrict the negative impact it can have on our form
of recreation. (Just an idea to toss around the discussion court.)
As for the ACEC....that is, in my opinion, a spin off of the Endangered
Species Act which could be applied to more than just endangered species.
Again, I do not believe we can have this removed from the RAMP, but we
can take steps to negate its impact on OHV travel. I wish I had more
knowledge of the scientific side of these issues, but it would seem that
anything brought up as ACEC must be supported by accepted scientific and
economic proof (something along the lines of a full blow environmental
assessment). By getting wording similar to this in the plan, it will
prevent someone's opinion from becoming ACEC (at least, that is my
hope).
Last...I am still thinking that the Jeep cam with high bandwidth video
might be a valid idea. If we can't get more of the members involved
with their own hobby at land issue level, they might very well be the
way in which most experience their trail rides in 10 years. (Sad but oh
so possibly true)
Thanks again from giving up your Saturday. It is obvious that you
walked away with a heightened understanding of what the OHV community is
up against.
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: wereazmeyer [mailto:dmeyer24@c...]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 11:12 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: BLM Meeting in Prescott
Jim,
Being a "BLM first-timer" I will defer to Russell for the issues
directly impacting OHV use, but I would like to share a few
observations that got me somewhat wound-up.
First, in the Land Actions group the BLM wanted us to comment,
identify, and suggest parcels of land that could be exchanged
without establishing any metric for equivalent value or motivation
for the exchange (even though it was not directly stated it appears
to me that the BLM priority is to ease their own land management
issues dealing with non-contiguous parcels of land). What? Are we
playing Risk; I'll trade you Kamchatka for Siam. At least in Risk
you can identify the apparent value to yourself strategically but
here, the BLM has no specifics on these parcels and I certainly have
no intimate knowledge of the little yellow square they've identified
on the map or its value.
Interesting approach, solicit input from the ignorant and emotional
in order to justify some bureaucratic mandate the BLM has to
consolidate to contiguous parcels. (I'm sure I must be confusing
the unstated BLM priority with de-fragmenting a hard drive.) It is
refreshing to see that they accepted, for now, the suggestion that
all land trades currently on the table should be withdrawn.
Second, there seems to be no method, forum, or legislative mandate
that would drive the BLM, the Arizona State Land Department, the
National Forest Service, the National Park Service, the county
boards of supervisors, townships, cities, etc. to align their land-
use visions. Consequently, we have conflicting expectations that
invite competition rather than cooperation. In the resulting
confusion our scramble for the almighty dollar will yield exactly
what we deserve, a megalopolis that will rival Los Angeles.
I can hardly wait; imagine paying $80 to wait in line at JeepLand
for hours, along with hundreds of other OHV enthusiasts, for your
turn to traverse JeepLand's newest trail. Or perhaps Stu's vision
of the future of the AZVJC; one "lucky" driver receives a pass to
JeepLand, the rest of us receive a video transmission in our Jeep
Simulators. (Think about an apparatus that would be capable of
realistically simulating Sharky's driving!)
Third, the BLM introduced some clever acronyms that
represent concepts or designations that appear to be other means
to "condemn" the land. Take the acronyms ACEC, meaning Areas of
Critical Environmental Concern, and VRM, meaning Visual Resource
Management, as two examples. The later implies that if a trail or
road is interfering with one's ability to take pleasure in some
pristine vista the BLM is not effectively executing their
responsibility in Visual Resource Management; consequence, close the
road or trail. Slap the ACEC moniker on another parcel and the
consequence is the same. Where is the due process, or due diligence?
It makes one ponder however; could we use VRM to rid the
AZVJC of some those unsightly "square-headlight" vehicles posing as
real jeeps?
Overall, definitely an eye-opener as Stu indicated; damn there is a
lot of work to do. The consequences of inaction are mind boggling,
I'm not sure if I should thank you for the experience or slash your
MTRs. ;-)
Bruce
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Jim (and all),
>
> The Recreation work group was pretty well behaved and I was
pleased with
> the variety of issues that were brought to the table. From what I
could
> see, none were aimed at reducing our preferred method of recreating
> (ScottM, feel free to chime in and give your opinion here if you so
> desire). If Jim perceived me as getting loud a few times, it was
due to
> my passion for the topic being discussed. ;>)
>
> We had a dispersed group in that we had quad/bike users,
> Jeepers/wheelers, RVers that like to do light Jeepin' when
camping, one
> guy who flies his light aircraft into old air strips to camp and
explore
> (now that is a different approach to getting to a camp spot), and a
> Jeeper who's main interest is in Geocaching. Our moderators were
pretty
> much on the ball and one of the two BLM employees was a good
> acquaintance from last years OHV Conference.
>
> We touched on issues (and even some potential solutions) ranging
from
> weekend "junk" shooters to homeless people to camping access to
> geocaching and quite a variety of ways in which these things and
many
> others could impact our use of BLM going into the future. We
tried, as
> best we could, to suggest items that could be included in the
resource
> management plan that would allow for the handling of possible
issues
> well into the future, should the need arise.....we did this in
hopes
> that the plan would not need to be heavily revised but that a part
of
> the plan, which had not yet been implemented, so to speak, could be
> brought into action. I guess you could say that we were working
to make
> sure that the plan had enough flexibility built into it that we
could
> continue to manage the resources without the need to have a new
plan
> developed.
>
> I too was happy with the turn out but I got the impression that
many of
> the folks were not OHVers from the valley but rather folks from the
> Prescott/Dewey area. While they certainly have a vested interest
in the
> management plan, it is just as much YOUR plan as it is
theirs....and you
> need to be involved in its development. This single point can not
be
> emphasized enough!
>
> I also want to personally thank Bruce Meyer and Nichole Freemon for
> coming to the meeting. They were "BLM first timers" and I think I
can
> safely say they walked away with a new awareness of the issues
that are
> eroding away at our ability to simply go Jeepin'. I enjoyed the
> conversation during the drive up and back and look forward to our
next
> meeting.
>
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hackle [mailto:hackle@q...]
> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 4:32 PM
> To: Az_Vjc
> Subject: [az_vjc] BLM Meeting in Prescott
>
> I would say there were 50 to 60 people at the meeting. Over
half
> were in
> RED and by a show of hands about 80% were OHV. As we had a large
group
> we
> split up to every group to get as much info as possible. Stu and
Scott
> M.
> went to Recreation, Rick N., and Nichole went to roads and trails,
Russ
> G.,
> Rico G. and Bruce M. went to Land issues, Randy D. and myself went
to
> Resources.
>
> Randy and I seemed to be in the largest group of
> anti-recreationists. One
> guy wanted to know what could be done to eliminate noise from I-10
> effecting
> the Big Horn Sheep in the area west of White Tanks. I suggested ear
> plugs.
> The anti- recreationists are trying to get as much Wilderness area
as
> they
> can. I had a note installed in the record to the effect no new
> Wilderness
> areas. They are trying to do this by dividing up and each area
suggest a
> different area. The BLM stated that they can not make a Wilderness
area
> but
> can make a Wilderness Study area. I asked how a study area would be
> managed
> until Congress makes the decision. It will be managed as a
Wilderness
> area!
> I pointed out that this basically made it an illegal Wilderness
area the
> BLM
> agreed. We have no real threaten species in this area so this
should not
> effect our trails.
> I heard Stu getting loud a couple times and will leave it to
him
> to tell
> everyone what he learned in the Recreation group.
> The Trails group was surprised to only have maps available
that
> did not
> show any of the Enterprise team trails. I was promised by the BLM
that
> at
> the next meeting they will have the complete set of maps. They
will also
> have several meetings to go over trails exclusively.
> Russ and Bruce made the point in the Land meeting that we
wanted
> all areas
> taken off the table for trade. One of them will need to add what
info
> they
> feel is needed.
> Overall we had a strong showing and the BLM reps noted
several
> times that
> this was the best meeting to date.
> Last note we all need to be involved in this process.
Overwhelm
> them with
> numbers and Red Shirts. Jim F.
>
> "I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member"
Groucho
> Marx
> Member of the original dirty half dozen.
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
81174 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Sun Mar 23, 2003 8:04am
Subject: RE: [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
Chris,
Please understand that I very much consider myself to be as patriotic as
any red blooded American. I am the 3rd generation in my family to have
served in the military. My grandfather was in the Great War, my father
in WWII, and I did an 8 year hitch during the Vietnam era. I honestly
do believe I am patriotic, enough so that I was willing to die for my
country while defending it (and I still would if need be).
That being said, if you want THE TROOPS to know you are supporting them,
then give them one hell of a WELCOME BACK when they return....in other
words, when THEY can see you are supporting them. I can tell you, from
first hand experience, there is nothing better than to be welcomed back
home by a HUGE crowd of people after you have been deployed for a long
period of time.
For my take, the recent troop rally discussion seemed to be born around
the idea of showing the anti-war protestors that others don't share the
same opinion. To me, that is showing the anti-war folks that we don't
agree with them (and I don't)....but I don't see our troops getting much
from this message. Arguing with an anti-war protestor is like arguing
with a frickin; anti-recreationist. Fight the fights you know you can
win.
Like I said, I'll show up and WELCOME THEM HOME so THEY can see that I
support THEM!
And I do look forward to seeing you on the next trail run, LU meeting,
or where ever we should happen to bump into each other.
Take care........Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris [mailto:my1stjeep@e...]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 11:21 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
I must have missed the boat when they handed out he mind reading part
of the brain. Seems like everyone knows what others are thinking
these days.
While it was posted here and people who feel the same attended I
missed the post that informed eveyone they had to feel the same way.
As far as it being OT, I agree that is why I added it to the subject
line. And while it is maybe not Jeep related the fact that we are at
war and it was to show our support for the men and women that give us
each the freedom to speak our minds, have the opportunity to attend a
rally or land use meeting and even our right to wheel our Jeeps kind
of means it does involve all of us on some level (IMO). Heck if the
armed forces don't defend our freedom we may not have land to wheel
on in the future no matter what anyone says.
As far as the issue of sad about where our support lies, while I
agree often times support at land use meetings is lower that it
should be, one is talking about loss of land the other loss of life.
If we lose land we can fight to get it back, lives you can never get
back. Right now we are fighting to be sure that we don't lose over 3
thousand lives again due to senseless attacks. THink of it another
way, which is worse if you lose your home or your child or maybe your
spouse.
I will see many of you at the next land use meeting I can make and I
will also see whoever shows up to the next support showing for our
troops.
Chris
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...> wrote:
> Hi Sharky,
>
> I think the problem with the rally post is that it is not a Jeep
related
> issue. The bottom line (in my opinion) is that land use issues are
ontopic
> and troop support rallys are offtopic. Just because I don't support
the
> rally being a club run doesn't mean I don't support the troops or
the idea
> of a rally. So if you feel that the rally idea hasn't gotten
deserved
> attention its probably because other people come here to read Jeep
stuff and
> ignore the rest that isn't Jeep related.
>
> Another problem is that somebody needs to pickup the ball and lead
this
> rally. Whoever takes on this responsibility will need to coordinate
with law
> enforcement in advance as well as put out some notices to the local
media.
> Maybe it won't be an AZVJC function but there needs to be a leader
> nonetheless and a contact list generated of interested people. Once
this
> person has setup the event then by all means I hope they post an
invitation
> on the list so that individual AZVJC members that are interested
can attend.
> Those that don't like it can stay home (or organize a counter
demonstration
> across the street)
>
> Why don't I support this as an AZVJC function? First of all the only
> politics this group really deals with are land issues and the
majority of us
> feel the same about that topic. When we start talking about war and
the
> politics surrounding it then you start to divide the group. I know
there are
> liberal and conservative members here and of course there probably
are
> Jeepers participating in both types of rallys. Who are we to tell
the rest
> of the group which way to think?
>
> That being said, I'm proudly flyin the Stars and Stripes in front
of my
> house in support of the troops and find myself glued to Fox News
these days.
> I've even got a TV tuner in my PC and I'm listening as I type this.
<Grin>
>
>
> That's my take on it all.
>
> Scott K
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sharxjeep [mailto:sharxjeep@c...]
> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:56 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>
>
> Its funny you should mention that considering the support our
> troops rally got less attention from the club than the land use
> issues. Somethings are just more important than others at certain
> times.
> To each their own but at this time my money is on a much bigger
> picture.
>
> Sharky
>
>
>
>
> > > Stu,
> > > It is a shame that these club members show so much effort for
> > supporting
> > > our troops (rightfully so) and only a fraction get as
> enthusiastic
> > about
> > > land use meetings.
> > > I have my reasons for staying at home and not being able to
> > participate
> > > in any activities with the club.
> > > A club run showing support for our troops in Prescott would have
> > been
> > > the way to go.
> > >
> > > Joey K
> > > http://www.desertjeep.com
> > > 93YJ
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 7:06 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > >
> > > Wow.....that idea went over like a lead brick.
> > >
> > > <shrug>
> > >
> > >
> > > Stu Olson
> > > www.stu-offroad.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 4:04 PM
> > > To: Bob Jacques; jeff.trujillo@m...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > >
> > > Even a better idea.....hit the BLM land use meeting tomorrow AM
in
> > > Prescott and then do Support Our Troops afterwards! Might as
well
> > > kill
> two
> > birds
> > > with the same stone!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Stu Olson
> > > www.stu-offroad.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Bob Jacques [mailto:bjacques@m...]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 2:04 PM
> > > To: 'jeff.trujillo@m...'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't know if it can be organized that quick ! but hopefully
it
> > will
> > > all
> > > be over by next weekend!! (except for the mop up )... How about
> > posting
> > > it
> > > as a run right now to see who signs up? I can see it now,
100+
> > jeeps
> > > cruisin with flags a flyin' ! Pretty impressive show of
> support!!!
> > > Bob
> > > J
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: jeff.trujillo@m...
> > > [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 1:42 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > >
> > >
> > > I think there are only three of us that are willing to do this!
I
> > am up
> > > for
> > > saturday but we need more people!!!
> > >
> > > Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > > Field Service Representative
> > > MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > > jeff.trujillo@m...
> > > Voice:(480)346-6249
> > > Fax:(480)346-6813
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Chris [mailto:my1stjeep@e...]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 1:40 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > >
> > >
> > > Do we want to do this on the weekend? Not sure if we target
the
> > > Capitol we would get much response over the weekend. Then again
> if
> > > we do it during the week in the evening it wouldn't be any
better
> > > and I am not sure that many can take time off work. So how
about
> > > this weekend sometime? Saturday evening? Maybe cruise down
Mill?
> > >
> > > Keep throwing out ideas everyone.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > -
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "intertwingled"
> <intertwingled@q...>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > anti-dorks = peacemongering surrender monkeys?
> > > >
> > > > Count me in. I hate those guys.
> > > >
> > > > At 08:22 PM 3/21/03 -0000, you wrote:
> > > > >Only if I can bring my baseball bat.
> > > > >
> > > > >--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, jeff.trujillo@m... wrote:
> > > > >> So are we going to try and put something together? I'm in
for
> > > doing
> > > > >a demo
> > > > >> at the capital across the street from the anti-dorks :o)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > > > >> Field Service Representative
> > > > >> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > > > >> jeff.trujillo@m...
> > > > >> Voice:(480)346-6249
> > > > >> Fax:(480)346-6813
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> From: Bill [mailto:bill@j...]
> > > > >> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 11:47 AM
> > > > >> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >> Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I'm in also
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --------------
> > > > >> Bill - Jeeps Only
> > > > >> http://www.jeepsonly.com
> > > > >> A Yahoo-style directory/search engine of links for Jeeps
only
> > > > >> -----------------------------------------------------------
--
> -
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <my1stjeep@e...>
> wrote:
> > > > >> > Anyone up for putting on a public display to show our
> > > support?
> > > > >All
> > > > >> > I keep seeing is people protesting and thinking this has
to
> > > to
> > > > >with
> > > > >> > oil or how it is going to affect the dollars spent on
their
> > > > >> > education.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Just a thought.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Chris
> > > > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > -
> > > ----
> > > > >--
> > > > >> -
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
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--
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> or
> > > > >entity to
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> > > > >privileged
> > > > >> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or
other
> > > use
> > > > >of, or
> > > > >> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
> > > persons
> > > > >or
> > > > >> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > > >> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this
in
> > > > >error, please
> > > > >> contact the sender by email and delete the material from
any
> > > > >computer..
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> privileged
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> > of, or
> > > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
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> > or
> > > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
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> > > please
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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>
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>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
81175 From: Chris Krieg <rv6a@m...>
Date: Sun Mar 23, 2003 8:23am
Subject: Re: [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
Agreed
On Sunday, March 23, 2003, at 07:25 AM, Stu Olson wrote:
> Well said, Scott.
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Kruize [mailto:skruize@c...]
> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:48 PM
> To: 'sharxjeep'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>
> Hi Sharky,
>
> I think the problem with the rally post is that it is not a Jeep
> related
> issue. The bottom line (in my opinion) is that land use issues are
> ontopic
> and troop support rallys are offtopic. Just because I don't support the
> rally being a club run doesn't mean I don't support the troops or the
> idea
> of a rally. So if you feel that the rally idea hasn't gotten deserved
> attention its probably because other people come here to read Jeep
> stuff
> and
> ignore the rest that isn't Jeep related.
>
> Another problem is that somebody needs to pickup the ball and lead this
> rally. Whoever takes on this responsibility will need to coordinate
> with
> law
> enforcement in advance as well as put out some notices to the local
> media.
> Maybe it won't be an AZVJC function but there needs to be a leader
> nonetheless and a contact list generated of interested people. Once
> this
> person has setup the event then by all means I hope they post an
> invitation
> on the list so that individual AZVJC members that are interested can
> attend.
> Those that don't like it can stay home (or organize a counter
> demonstration
> across the street)
>
> Why don't I support this as an AZVJC function? First of all the only
> politics this group really deals with are land issues and the majority
> of us
> feel the same about that topic. When we start talking about war and the
> politics surrounding it then you start to divide the group. I know
> there
> are
> liberal and conservative members here and of course there probably are
> Jeepers participating in both types of rallys. Who are we to tell the
> rest
> of the group which way to think?
>
> That being said, I'm proudly flyin the Stars and Stripes in front of my
> house in support of the troops and find myself glued to Fox News these
> days.
> I've even got a TV tuner in my PC and I'm listening as I type this.
> <Grin>
>
>
> That's my take on it all.
>
> Scott K
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sharxjeep [mailto:sharxjeep@c...]
> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:56 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>
>
> Its funny you should mention that considering the support our
> troops rally got less attention from the club than the land use
> issues. Somethings are just more important than others at certain
> times.
> To each their own but at this time my money is on a much bigger
> picture.
>
> Sharky
>
>
>
>
>>> Stu,
>>> It is a shame that these club members show so much effort for
>> supporting
>>> our troops (rightfully so) and only a fraction get as
> enthusiastic
>> about
>>> land use meetings.
>>> I have my reasons for staying at home and not being able to
>> participate
>>> in any activities with the club.
>>> A club run showing support for our troops in Prescott would have
>> been
>>> the way to go.
>>>
>>> Joey K
>>> http://www.desertjeep.com
>>> 93YJ
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
>>> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 7:06 PM
>>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>>>
>>> Wow.....that idea went over like a lead brick.
>>>
>>> <shrug>
>>>
>>>
>>> Stu Olson
>>> www.stu-offroad.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Stu Olson [mailto:solson8@q...]
>>> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 4:04 PM
>>> To: Bob Jacques; jeff.trujillo@m...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>>>
>>> Even a better idea.....hit the BLM land use meeting tomorrow AM in
>>> Prescott and then do Support Our Troops afterwards! Might as well
>>> kill
> two
>> birds
>>> with the same stone!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Stu Olson
>>> www.stu-offroad.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Bob Jacques [mailto:bjacques@m...]
>>> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 2:04 PM
>>> To: 'jeff.trujillo@m...'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know if it can be organized that quick ! but hopefully it
>> will
>>> all
>>> be over by next weekend!! (except for the mop up )... How about
>> posting
>>> it
>>> as a run right now to see who signs up? I can see it now, 100+
>> jeeps
>>> cruisin with flags a flyin' ! Pretty impressive show of
> support!!!
>>> Bob
>>> J
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: jeff.trujillo@m...
>>> [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
>>> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 1:42 PM
>>> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] [OT]Re: Support Our Troops
>>>
>>>
>>> I think there are only three of us that are willing to do this! I
>> am up
>>> for
>>> saturday but we need more people!!!
>>>
>>> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
>>> Field Service Representative
>>> MD Helicopters, Inc.
>>