blooddrive
01-07-2004, 10:01 PM
76905-76929
76905 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:07am
Subject: [FS] WANTED-3.73 gears for a 10,12 bolt
Price: ?
Contact: ultralite_1234@yahoo.com
i need a set of 3.73 gears for my truck.
e-mail me if you have any.
Kyle Snowberger
Kyle Snowberger
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
76906 From: Vernelle Massey <vernellem@c...> <vernellem@c...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:12am
Subject: I think it's time for a vote on the wench situation!
I think it's time for a vote on the wench situation!
Vote A. He's earned a wedgie at the next group get together.
or B. Get a rope!
76907 From: Trujillo, Jeff <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:55am
Subject: RE: I think it's time for a vote on the wench situation!
B -- enough said
Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice:(480)346-6249
Fax:(480)346-6813
-----Original Message-----
From: Vernelle Massey <vernellem@c...> [mailto:vernellem@c...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:12 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] I think it's time for a vote on the wench situation!
I think it's time for a vote on the wench situation!
Vote A. He's earned a wedgie at the next group get together.
or B. Get a rope!
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
76908 From: Trujillo, Jeff <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:56am
Subject: Lucky Jeeper
Anyone see this on the news? Its amazing as heck!!!
http://www.msnbc.com/news/865587.asp?0cv=CB20
Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice:(480)346-6249
Fax:(480)346-6813
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
76909 From: BradP Kilgore <brad.kilgore@p...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:16am
Subject: RE: Winch theft
FYI....
This is the person that sold the winch BigDent10@H..., I think
the other bratton5337@m... is his dad. Brandon talked to the dad as
well, and he could not/would not help with the situation.
Ray Bratton Jr. Spouse/BF/GF/SO: none not needed
Location: Glendale Trail Preference: 4-5
Children/Pets: My Jeep is all I need
Phone: 623-934-0618 EMail: BigDent10@H...
Address: 4831 w Brown St Glendale AZ 85302
Website: Occupation: slasemen
Ray Bratton Spouse/BF/GF/SO:
Location: Glendale Az Trail Preference: 4.0
Children/Pets:
Phone: 602-579-7345 EMail: bratton5337@m...
Address: Glendale, Az
Website: Occupation: Precision Tool Grinder
-----Original Message-----
From: Trujillo, Jeff [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:15 AM
To: 'bratton5337@m...'
Cc: AZVJC (E-mail)
Subject: [az_vjc] Winch theft
Ray, I know that you have been reading all these posts and feel guilty
inside even if you don't admit it. The right thing to do is cough up the
money. NOT pay for half of the repair he suggested. You sold an item
under
false pretences. That is illegal and your PO should know this. I am sure
you
will get quite a bit of harassment for this but who cares. If I had
bought
that from you and it didn't work as you stated it did, believe me, I
would
get my moneys worth one way or another. Do the right thing and give the
money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error,
please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76910 From: Eric <parajeeper02@y...> <parajeeper02@y...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:35am
Subject: Re: Winch theft
I had a run in with one of the Brattons (dad) as well. All I can say
is I personally will never do business with him. I do not know about
the son. It is pretty sad that this had to happen. I hope the people
involved to the right thing and make this right for Brandon
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BradP Kilgore" <brad.kilgore@p...>
wrote:
> FYI....
>
> This is the person that sold the winch BigDent10@H..., I think
> the other bratton5337@m... is his dad. Brandon talked to the dad as
> well, and he could not/would not help with the situation.
>
> Ray Bratton Jr. Spouse/BF/GF/SO: none not needed
> Location: Glendale Trail Preference: 4-5
> Children/Pets: My Jeep is all I need
> Phone: 623-934-0618 EMail: BigDent10@H...
> Address: 4831 w Brown St Glendale AZ 85302
> Website: Occupation: slasemen
>
> Ray Bratton Spouse/BF/GF/SO:
> Location: Glendale Az Trail Preference: 4.0
> Children/Pets:
> Phone: 602-579-7345 EMail: bratton5337@m...
> Address: Glendale, Az
> Website: Occupation: Precision Tool Grinder
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trujillo, Jeff [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:15 AM
> To: 'bratton5337@m...'
> Cc: AZVJC (E-mail)
> Subject: [az_vjc] Winch theft
>
> Ray, I know that you have been reading all these posts and feel
guilty
> inside even if you don't admit it. The right thing to do is cough
up the
> money. NOT pay for half of the repair he suggested. You sold an item
> under
> false pretences. That is illegal and your PO should know this. I am
sure
> you
> will get quite a bit of harassment for this but who cares. If I had
> bought
> that from you and it didn't work as you stated it did, believe me, I
> would
> get my moneys worth one way or another. Do the right thing and give
the
> money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> ----
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
entity to
>
> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
privileged
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
of, or
>
> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons
or
> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error,
> please
> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
computer..
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76911 From: Joe <flexyxj98@m...> <flexyxj98@m...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:37am
Subject: Re: Winch theft
OK, Enough is enough.... I have tried too long to stay out of
this...If I offend anyone than so be it....I have tried the step back
and let it play out thing that everyone suggests....TOO LATE...FIRST
OFF...Let me say that I have known Ray and his dad for quite some
time, so I do have the knowledge to talk about this..All of you
people who have no damn Idea about Ray or Brandon that are jumping on
the bandwagon...GET OFF!!! Damn it this pisses me off...First off,
why would you buy a winch if it didnt work?? I KNOW THE WINCH
WORKED. I helped him spool it out and wind it right before it came
off his jeep. I saw it with my own eyes. Second, why would you not do
some testing on the winch yourself,(or use this board and ask how to
test it, god knows there have been STUPIDER questions asked before)
Other than just running a winch to 4 wheelers to get it
fixed...besides you paid how much for the winch?? 600.00?? and then
it cost what 200 to fix it??? oh my sad pity that to got a 950.00
winch for 800 dollars....thats why I try NEVer to post anything for
sale on here because everyone wants something for free...like the d44
locker I was trying to sell That one club member offered me 100
dollars for and actually told me I was a theif for asking that much
$$$ for a Used Power trax..hmm a 400 dollar locker for 300
dollars...oh wait It did have almost 8000 miles on it ....guess it
was 3/4 worn...All I am saying to you certain people who have NO idea
what the hell is going on to stay the hell out of it. Yes I have
spoken with Ray, he does feel bad about it, but like him, I think you
should be more educated about what you buy either new or used...If
you people feel the need to flame me than go ahead, because I am sure
the ones who flame will be the same **** stirrers that want to hang
him...oh yeah BTW BRAD KILGORE, lets talk about taking responsibility
for what you do....how bout that tire carrier, that was ORF's
fault....wanna talk about that on list????
FLEXYXJ
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BradP Kilgore" <brad.kilgore@p...>
wrote:
> FYI....
>
> This is the person that sold the winch BigDent10@H..., I think
> the other bratton5337@m... is his dad. Brandon talked to the dad as
> well, and he could not/would not help with the situation.
>
> Ray Bratton Jr. Spouse/BF/GF/SO: none not needed
> Location: Glendale Trail Preference: 4-5
> Children/Pets: My Jeep is all I need
> Phone: 623-934-0618 EMail: BigDent10@H...
> Address: 4831 w Brown St Glendale AZ 85302
> Website: Occupation: slasemen
>
> Ray Bratton Spouse/BF/GF/SO:
> Location: Glendale Az Trail Preference: 4.0
> Children/Pets:
> Phone: 602-579-7345 EMail: bratton5337@m...
> Address: Glendale, Az
> Website: Occupation: Precision Tool Grinder
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trujillo, Jeff [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:15 AM
> To: 'bratton5337@m...'
> Cc: AZVJC (E-mail)
> Subject: [az_vjc] Winch theft
>
> Ray, I know that you have been reading all these posts and feel
guilty
> inside even if you don't admit it. The right thing to do is cough
up the
> money. NOT pay for half of the repair he suggested. You sold an item
> under
> false pretences. That is illegal and your PO should know this. I am
sure
> you
> will get quite a bit of harassment for this but who cares. If I had
> bought
> that from you and it didn't work as you stated it did, believe me, I
> would
> get my moneys worth one way or another. Do the right thing and give
the
> money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> ----
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
entity to
>
> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
privileged
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
of, or
>
> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons
or
> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error,
> please
> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
computer..
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76912 From: Joe <flexyxj98@m...> <flexyxj98@m...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:41am
Subject: Re: Winch theft
So whats you story???? Lets hear it....I hope this does not make the
group hate me or ruin my credibility with the group, I just believe
there is ANOTHER side of the story here....If I knew anyone on this
list personaly was getting hammered like this, I would do the same
for you also...if the circumstances were the same
Flexy
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Eric <parajeeper02@y...>"
<parajeeper02@y...> wrote:
> I had a run in with one of the Brattons (dad) as well. All I can
say
> is I personally will never do business with him. I do not know
about
> the son. It is pretty sad that this had to happen. I hope the
people
> involved to the right thing and make this right for Brandon
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BradP Kilgore" <brad.kilgore@p...>
> wrote:
> > FYI....
> >
> > This is the person that sold the winch BigDent10@H..., I think
> > the other bratton5337@m... is his dad. Brandon talked to the dad
as
> > well, and he could not/would not help with the situation.
> >
> > Ray Bratton Jr. Spouse/BF/GF/SO: none not needed
> > Location: Glendale Trail Preference: 4-5
> > Children/Pets: My Jeep is all I need
> > Phone: 623-934-0618 EMail: BigDent10@H...
> > Address: 4831 w Brown St Glendale AZ 85302
> > Website: Occupation: slasemen
> >
> > Ray Bratton Spouse/BF/GF/SO:
> > Location: Glendale Az Trail Preference: 4.0
> > Children/Pets:
> > Phone: 602-579-7345 EMail: bratton5337@m...
> > Address: Glendale, Az
> > Website: Occupation: Precision Tool Grinder
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Trujillo, Jeff [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:15 AM
> > To: 'bratton5337@m...'
> > Cc: AZVJC (E-mail)
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Winch theft
> >
> > Ray, I know that you have been reading all these posts and feel
> guilty
> > inside even if you don't admit it. The right thing to do is cough
> up the
> > money. NOT pay for half of the repair he suggested. You sold an
item
> > under
> > false pretences. That is illegal and your PO should know this. I
am
> sure
> > you
> > will get quite a bit of harassment for this but who cares. If I
had
> > bought
> > that from you and it didn't work as you stated it did, believe
me, I
> > would
> > get my moneys worth one way or another. Do the right thing and
give
> the
> > money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
> > ----
> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
> entity to
> >
> > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> privileged
> > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
> of, or
> >
> > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
persons
> or
> > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
error,
> > please
> > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> computer..
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76913 From: Joe <flexyxj98@m...> <flexyxj98@m...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:44am
Subject: Re: Fw: Winch misrepresentaion
So are we suggesting that not only does he get his money back, but a
free winch also??? or he gives the $ back and the winch???
Flexy
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "TOYS BY TROY, llc." <TOYSBYTROY@C...>
wrote:
> We knead a pick of his jeep and a discretion of him. So when we
find him on the trail stuck we don't help and we know this will
happen because he destroyed the winch right!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> troy
> From: Craig Micek
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:28 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Fw: Winch misrepresentaion
>
>
> I sent this to our buddy Ray.
>
> Craig
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Craig Micek
> To: bratton5337@m...
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:23 AM
> Subject: Winch misrepresentaion
>
>
> Ray, you really should step up and do the right thing regarding
the winch sale.
> Right now there are about 1500 members of the avjc who believe
you are a crook. You could turn that around very easily. Even if
you don't refund the purchase price, at least split the cost of the
repair. Remember what goes around comes around. It may hurt a
little to cough up a few bucks now, but you will feel better
afterward.
>
> Craig
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
76914 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:54am
Subject: Re: Re: Winch theft
might be a good time for Ray to pipe up in his own defense........(2 sides
to every story yada yada yada)
Frank
BadAzXJ@m...
>From: "Joe <flexyxj98@m...>" <flexyxj98@m...>
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Winch theft
>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 19:37:58 -0000
>
>OK, Enough is enough.... I have tried too long to stay out of
>this...If I offend anyone than so be it....I have tried the step back
>and let it play out thing that everyone suggests....TOO LATE...FIRST
>OFF...Let me say that I have known Ray and his dad for quite some
>time, so I do have the knowledge to talk about this..All of you
>people who have no damn Idea about Ray or Brandon that are jumping on
>the bandwagon...GET OFF!!! Damn it this pisses me off...First off,
>why would you buy a winch if it didnt work?? I KNOW THE WINCH
>WORKED. I helped him spool it out and wind it right before it came
>off his jeep. I saw it with my own eyes. Second, why would you not do
>some testing on the winch yourself,(or use this board and ask how to
>test it, god knows there have been STUPIDER questions asked before)
>Other than just running a winch to 4 wheelers to get it
>fixed...besides you paid how much for the winch?? 600.00?? and then
>it cost what 200 to fix it??? oh my sad pity that to got a 950.00
>winch for 800 dollars....thats why I try NEVer to post anything for
>sale on here because everyone wants something for free...like the d44
>locker I was trying to sell That one club member offered me 100
>dollars for and actually told me I was a theif for asking that much
>$$$ for a Used Power trax..hmm a 400 dollar locker for 300
>dollars...oh wait It did have almost 8000 miles on it ....guess it
>was 3/4 worn...All I am saying to you certain people who have NO idea
>what the hell is going on to stay the hell out of it. Yes I have
>spoken with Ray, he does feel bad about it, but like him, I think you
>should be more educated about what you buy either new or used...If
>you people feel the need to flame me than go ahead, because I am sure
>the ones who flame will be the same **** stirrers that want to hang
>him...oh yeah BTW BRAD KILGORE, lets talk about taking responsibility
>for what you do....how bout that tire carrier, that was ORF's
>fault....wanna talk about that on list????
>
>
>FLEXYXJ
>
>
>
>
>
>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BradP Kilgore" <brad.kilgore@p...>
>wrote:
> > FYI....
> >
> > This is the person that sold the winch BigDent10@H..., I think
> > the other bratton5337@m... is his dad. Brandon talked to the dad as
> > well, and he could not/would not help with the situation.
> >
> > Ray Bratton Jr. Spouse/BF/GF/SO: none not needed
> > Location: Glendale Trail Preference: 4-5
> > Children/Pets: My Jeep is all I need
> > Phone: 623-934-0618 EMail: BigDent10@H...
> > Address: 4831 w Brown St Glendale AZ 85302
> > Website: Occupation: slasemen
> >
> > Ray Bratton Spouse/BF/GF/SO:
> > Location: Glendale Az Trail Preference: 4.0
> > Children/Pets:
> > Phone: 602-579-7345 EMail: bratton5337@m...
> > Address: Glendale, Az
> > Website: Occupation: Precision Tool Grinder
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Trujillo, Jeff [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:15 AM
> > To: 'bratton5337@m...'
> > Cc: AZVJC (E-mail)
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Winch theft
> >
> > Ray, I know that you have been reading all these posts and feel
>guilty
> > inside even if you don't admit it. The right thing to do is cough
>up the
> > money. NOT pay for half of the repair he suggested. You sold an item
> > under
> > false pretences. That is illegal and your PO should know this. I am
>sure
> > you
> > will get quite a bit of harassment for this but who cares. If I had
> > bought
> > that from you and it didn't work as you stated it did, believe me, I
> > would
> > get my moneys worth one way or another. Do the right thing and give
>the
> > money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
> > ----
> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
>entity to
> >
> > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
>privileged
> > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
>of, or
> >
> > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons
>or
> > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error,
> > please
> > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
>computer..
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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76915 From: Trujillo, Jeff <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:36am
Subject: RE: Re: Winch theft
We still like you flexy :o) ....everyone has a right to their own
opinion..whether right or wrong. The way I see it, if I was the one to sell
the wench and it didn't work after you got it home I would work with you.
Not just say....to bad. Yea, we haven't heard Ray's side of the story (why
not), so let him tell his story. Why is he not willing to help out? Because
he has car payments? Because he has to pay his PO? That still leaves a bad
taste in my mouth.
Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice:(480)346-6249
Fax:(480)346-6813
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe <flexyxj98@m...> [mailto:flexyxj98@m...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:41 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Winch theft
So whats you story???? Lets hear it....I hope this does not make the
group hate me or ruin my credibility with the group, I just believe
there is ANOTHER side of the story here....If I knew anyone on this
list personaly was getting hammered like this, I would do the same
for you also...if the circumstances were the same
Flexy
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Eric <parajeeper02@y...>"
<parajeeper02@y...> wrote:
> I had a run in with one of the Brattons (dad) as well. All I can
say
> is I personally will never do business with him. I do not know
about
> the son. It is pretty sad that this had to happen. I hope the
people
> involved to the right thing and make this right for Brandon
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BradP Kilgore" <brad.kilgore@p...>
> wrote:
> > FYI....
> >
> > This is the person that sold the winch BigDent10@H..., I think
> > the other bratton5337@m... is his dad. Brandon talked to the dad
as
> > well, and he could not/would not help with the situation.
> >
> > Ray Bratton Jr. Spouse/BF/GF/SO: none not needed
> > Location: Glendale Trail Preference: 4-5
> > Children/Pets: My Jeep is all I need
> > Phone: 623-934-0618 EMail: BigDent10@H...
> > Address: 4831 w Brown St Glendale AZ 85302
> > Website: Occupation: slasemen
> >
> > Ray Bratton Spouse/BF/GF/SO:
> > Location: Glendale Az Trail Preference: 4.0
> > Children/Pets:
> > Phone: 602-579-7345 EMail: bratton5337@m...
> > Address: Glendale, Az
> > Website: Occupation: Precision Tool Grinder
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Trujillo, Jeff [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:15 AM
> > To: 'bratton5337@m...'
> > Cc: AZVJC (E-mail)
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Winch theft
> >
> > Ray, I know that you have been reading all these posts and feel
> guilty
> > inside even if you don't admit it. The right thing to do is cough
> up the
> > money. NOT pay for half of the repair he suggested. You sold an
item
> > under
> > false pretences. That is illegal and your PO should know this. I
am
> sure
> > you
> > will get quite a bit of harassment for this but who cares. If I
had
> > bought
> > that from you and it didn't work as you stated it did, believe
me, I
> > would
> > get my moneys worth one way or another. Do the right thing and
give
> the
> > money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
> > ----
> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
> entity to
> >
> > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> privileged
> > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
> of, or
> >
> > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
persons
> or
> > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
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> > please
> > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
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> >
> >
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
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MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
76916 From: BradP Kilgore <brad.kilgore@p...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:58am
Subject: RE: Re: Fw: Winch misrepresentaion
At this point Brandon has spent $850.00 for a this winch. $600.00 for
the winch and $250.00 for 4Wheelers to repair it. If this individual
would refund ALL of the money, I'm sure Brandon would love to return the
winch, because he could have purchased a new one for this cost. At the
very least, Brandon might accept it if the repairs were covered,
$250.00, but only he can answer that question. Remember, Brandon is the
victim here of a misrepresentation. He does not want anything more then
what is fair and what was promised.
Brad
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe [flexyxj98@m...] [mailto:flexyxj98@m...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:44 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Fw: Winch misrepresentaion
So are we suggesting that not only does he get his money back, but a
free winch also??? or he gives the $ back and the winch???
Flexy
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "TOYS BY TROY, llc." <TOYSBYTROY@C...>
wrote:
> We knead a pick of his jeep and a discretion of him. So when we
find him on the trail stuck we don't help and we know this will
happen because he destroyed the winch right!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> troy
> From: Craig Micek
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:28 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Fw: Winch misrepresentaion
>
>
> I sent this to our buddy Ray.
>
> Craig
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Craig Micek
> To: bratton5337@m...
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:23 AM
> Subject: Winch misrepresentaion
>
>
> Ray, you really should step up and do the right thing regarding
the winch sale.
> Right now there are about 1500 members of the avjc who believe
you are a crook. You could turn that around very easily. Even if
you don't refund the purchase price, at least split the cost of the
repair. Remember what goes around comes around. It may hurt a
little to cough up a few bucks now, but you will feel better
afterward.
>
> Craig
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76917 From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 0:32pm
Subject: Re: Lucky Jeeper
If it's the one about the jeeper who got thrown clear of
his jeep and hit and clung to some telephone/power lines,
I read it in this morning's Arizona Republic. I think
I will start wearing my seatbelts again. =P
Tony
At 11:56 AM 1/29/03 -0700, you wrote:
>Anyone see this on the news? Its amazing as heck!!!
>
>http://www.msnbc.com/news/865587.asp?0cv=CB20
>
>Jeffrey A. Trujillo
>Field Service Representative
>MD Helicopters, Inc.
>jeff.trujillo@m...
>Voice:(480)346-6249
>Fax:(480)346-6813
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
>which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
>material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
>taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
>entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
>MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
>contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
--
even the safest course is fraught with peril
76918 From: Joe <flexyxj98@m...> <flexyxj98@m...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 0:01pm
Subject: Re: Winch theft
I DO believe that ray DID offer to fix the winch for him and he
declined....of course I have not heard from brandon so....whats up
brandon ???? Is this true??? Did ray offer to fix it for you and
you declined, or is this not true????
Flexy
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Trujillo, Jeff" <jeff.trujillo@m...>
wrote:
> We still like you flexy :o) ....everyone has a right to their own
> opinion..whether right or wrong. The way I see it, if I was the one
to sell
> the wench and it didn't work after you got it home I would work
with you.
> Not just say....to bad. Yea, we haven't heard Ray's side of the
story (why
> not), so let him tell his story. Why is he not willing to help out?
Because
> he has car payments? Because he has to pay his PO? That still
leaves a bad
> taste in my mouth.
>
>
> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> Field Service Representative
> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> jeff.trujillo@m...
> Voice:(480)346-6249
> Fax:(480)346-6813
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe <flexyxj98@m...> [mailto:flexyxj98@m...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:41 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Winch theft
>
>
> So whats you story???? Lets hear it....I hope this does not make
the
> group hate me or ruin my credibility with the group, I just believe
> there is ANOTHER side of the story here....If I knew anyone on this
> list personaly was getting hammered like this, I would do the same
> for you also...if the circumstances were the same
>
>
> Flexy
>
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Eric <parajeeper02@y...>"
> <parajeeper02@y...> wrote:
> > I had a run in with one of the Brattons (dad) as well. All I can
> say
> > is I personally will never do business with him. I do not know
> about
> > the son. It is pretty sad that this had to happen. I hope the
> people
> > involved to the right thing and make this right for Brandon
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BradP Kilgore"
<brad.kilgore@p...>
> > wrote:
> > > FYI....
> > >
> > > This is the person that sold the winch BigDent10@H..., I think
> > > the other bratton5337@m... is his dad. Brandon talked to the
dad
> as
> > > well, and he could not/would not help with the situation.
> > >
> > > Ray Bratton Jr. Spouse/BF/GF/SO: none not needed
> > > Location: Glendale Trail Preference: 4-5
> > > Children/Pets: My Jeep is all I need
> > > Phone: 623-934-0618 EMail: BigDent10@H...
> > > Address: 4831 w Brown St Glendale AZ 85302
> > > Website: Occupation: slasemen
> > >
> > > Ray Bratton Spouse/BF/GF/SO:
> > > Location: Glendale Az Trail Preference: 4.0
> > > Children/Pets:
> > > Phone: 602-579-7345 EMail: bratton5337@m...
> > > Address: Glendale, Az
> > > Website: Occupation: Precision Tool Grinder
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Trujillo, Jeff [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:15 AM
> > > To: 'bratton5337@m...'
> > > Cc: AZVJC (E-mail)
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Winch theft
> > >
> > > Ray, I know that you have been reading all these posts and feel
> > guilty
> > > inside even if you don't admit it. The right thing to do is
cough
> > up the
> > > money. NOT pay for half of the repair he suggested. You sold an
> item
> > > under
> > > false pretences. That is illegal and your PO should know this.
I
> am
> > sure
> > > you
> > > will get quite a bit of harassment for this but who cares. If I
> had
> > > bought
> > > that from you and it didn't work as you stated it did, believe
> me, I
> > > would
> > > get my moneys worth one way or another. Do the right thing and
> give
> > the
> > > money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > ----
> > > ----
> > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
> > entity to
> > >
> > > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> > privileged
> > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other
use
> > of, or
> > >
> > > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
> persons
> > or
> > > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> error,
> > > please
> > > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> > computer..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
entity to
> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
privileged
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
of, or
> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons
or
> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
error, please
> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
computer..
76919 From: <vernellem@c...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 7:03am
Subject: Re: Re: Winch theft
Hmnn....You've got a point there. Maybe I should add a 3rd choice to the vote.
A. Give Ray a wedgie at the next get together.
B. Get a Rope!
C. Everyone reach back and give themselves a wedgie. (This would be on the Honor System, of course!)
Vernelle
andIn a message dated 1/29/2003 12:41:23 PM US Mountain Standard Time, flexyxj98@msn.com writes:
OK, Enough is enough.... I have tried too long to stay out of
this...If I offend anyone than so be it....I have tried the step back
and let it play out thing that everyone suggests....TOO LATE...FIRST
OFF...Let me say that I have known Ray and his dad for quite some
time, so I do have the knowledge to talk about this..All of you
people who have no damn Idea about Ray or Brandon that are jumping on
the bandwagon...GET OFF!!! Damn it this pisses me off...First off,
why would you buy a winch if it didnt work?? I KNOW THE WINCH
WORKED. I helped him spool it out and wind it right before it came
off his jeep. I saw it with my own eyes. Second, why would you not do
some testing on the winch yourself,(or use this board and ask how to
test it, god knows there have been STUPIDER questions asked before)
Other than just running a winch to 4 wheelers to get it
fixed...besides you paid how much for the winch?? 600.00?? and then
it cost what 200 to fix it??? oh my sad pity that to got a 950.00
winch for 800 dollars....thats why I try NEVer to post anything for
sale on here because everyone wants something for free...like the d44
locker I was trying to sell That one club member offered me 100
dollars for and actually told me I was a theif for asking that much
$$$ for a Used Power trax..hmm a 400 dollar locker for 300
dollars...oh wait It did have almost 8000 miles on it ....guess it
was 3/4 worn...All I am saying to you certain people who have NO idea
what the hell is going on to stay the hell out of it. Yes I have
spoken with Ray, he does feel bad about it, but like him, I think you
should be more educated about what you buy either new or used...If
you people feel the need to flame me than go ahead, because I am sure
the ones who flame will be the same **** stirrers that want to hang
him...oh yeah BTW BRAD KILGORE, lets talk about taking responsibility
for what you do....how bout that tire carrier, that was ORF's
fault....wanna talk about that on list????
FLEXYXJ
76920 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 0:07pm
Subject: Thanks to Kevinsjeepparts and flexyxj
Kevin fabricated me a set of his square tube sliders a couple of weeks back.
They didnt fit properly (XJ's vary in length from frame to pinch rail and
mine happens to be a bigger space) and I gave him a call. He picked them up
from Kongs and modified them and brought them back to the shop. Thanks
Kevin. Its things like this that solidify your well deserved reputation.
Anyone else interested in his sliders can check them out at
www.kevinsjeepparts.com
Frank
BadAzXJ@m...
PS. Thanks to Flexy also for weldin them on for me. :)
__________________________________________________ _______________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
76921 From: Vernelle Massey <vernellem@c...> <vernellem@c...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 0:09pm
Subject: 2 sides to every story......
Hmnn....You've got a point there. Maybe I should add a 3rd choice to
the vote.
A. Give Ray a wedgie at the next get together.
B. Get a Rope!
C. Everyone reach back and give themselves a wedgie. (This would be on
the Honor System, of course!)
Vernelle
76922 From: BradP Kilgore <brad.kilgore@p...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 0:32pm
Subject: RE: Re: Winch theft
I just talked to Brandon and apparently Ray called him around 11:30 this
morning. I hate paraphrasing this, but Brandon said he would not be
near a computer for awhile. Ok here goes: My comments are in ().
Ray called earlier and offered to look at the winch, himself, and would
try to fix the winch, himself, but would not pay for any of the parts.
Brandon said he had already had the winch repaired by 4Wheelers and
asked Ray to at least pay half of the repair. Ray said no, that
4Wheelers was ripping him (Brandon) off lying to him and that there was
nothing wrong with the motor the problem is with the solenoid. (If
there was nothing wrong with the winch to begin with, why is Ray so sure
there is a problem with the solenoid? ) This was said several times.
Ray went on to say that he had used the winch to winch himself once,
pull a buddy out once and pull a couple of tree stumps. (Funny this was
not in the original post) Ray made several statements about the winch
working for him and that the clicking/grinding noise was the way it was
supposed to sound. Ray suggested that Brandon must have done something
to the winch after taking it home.
The conversation went back and forth for a few minutes and then
basically ended when they realized nothing was being accomplished. Ray
added that he was going to have some friends post on his behalf and say
they have dealt with him before and he was ok. Ray Also said that if
Brandon did not retract his posts that he (Ray) was going to sue
(Brandon) for slander.
(Why isn't Ray defending himself and telling his side of the story, he
is obviously watching the posts?)
End of conversation.
So Flexy, are you one of the friends Ray called? I want to be fair and
would be more than willing to hear Ray give his side of the story, as
would everybody. So, where is he? I just noticed that his E-Mail
address come back undeliverable as does his dads now. Offering to fix
something you sell to someone, as long as they pay the bill, is no deal.
That would be like buying a car, having the transmission fall out on the
way home, and have the seller offer to fix it, if you paid for
everything. Wow, does not sound like a good deal to me.
As always, just my opinion, others may be different.
Brad
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe [flexyxj98@m...] [mailto:flexyxj98@m...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 1:01 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Winch theft
I DO believe that ray DID offer to fix the winch for him and he
declined....of course I have not heard from brandon so....whats up
brandon ???? Is this true??? Did ray offer to fix it for you and
you declined, or is this not true????
Flexy
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Trujillo, Jeff" <jeff.trujillo@m...>
wrote:
> We still like you flexy :o) ....everyone has a right to their own
> opinion..whether right or wrong. The way I see it, if I was the one
to sell
> the wench and it didn't work after you got it home I would work
with you.
> Not just say....to bad. Yea, we haven't heard Ray's side of the
story (why
> not), so let him tell his story. Why is he not willing to help out?
Because
> he has car payments? Because he has to pay his PO? That still
leaves a bad
> taste in my mouth.
>
>
> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> Field Service Representative
> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> jeff.trujillo@m...
> Voice:(480)346-6249
> Fax:(480)346-6813
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe <flexyxj98@m...> [mailto:flexyxj98@m...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:41 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Winch theft
>
>
> So whats you story???? Lets hear it....I hope this does not make
the
> group hate me or ruin my credibility with the group, I just believe
> there is ANOTHER side of the story here....If I knew anyone on this
> list personaly was getting hammered like this, I would do the same
> for you also...if the circumstances were the same
>
>
> Flexy
>
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Eric <parajeeper02@y...>"
> <parajeeper02@y...> wrote:
> > I had a run in with one of the Brattons (dad) as well. All I can
> say
> > is I personally will never do business with him. I do not know
> about
> > the son. It is pretty sad that this had to happen. I hope the
> people
> > involved to the right thing and make this right for Brandon
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BradP Kilgore"
<brad.kilgore@p...>
> > wrote:
> > > FYI....
> > >
> > > This is the person that sold the winch BigDent10@H..., I think
> > > the other bratton5337@m... is his dad. Brandon talked to the
dad
> as
> > > well, and he could not/would not help with the situation.
> > >
> > > Ray Bratton Jr. Spouse/BF/GF/SO: none not needed
> > > Location: Glendale Trail Preference: 4-5
> > > Children/Pets: My Jeep is all I need
> > > Phone: 623-934-0618 EMail: BigDent10@H...
> > > Address: 4831 w Brown St Glendale AZ 85302
> > > Website: Occupation: slasemen
> > >
> > > Ray Bratton Spouse/BF/GF/SO:
> > > Location: Glendale Az Trail Preference: 4.0
> > > Children/Pets:
> > > Phone: 602-579-7345 EMail: bratton5337@m...
> > > Address: Glendale, Az
> > > Website: Occupation: Precision Tool Grinder
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Trujillo, Jeff [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:15 AM
> > > To: 'bratton5337@m...'
> > > Cc: AZVJC (E-mail)
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Winch theft
> > >
> > > Ray, I know that you have been reading all these posts and feel
> > guilty
> > > inside even if you don't admit it. The right thing to do is
cough
> > up the
> > > money. NOT pay for half of the repair he suggested. You sold an
> item
> > > under
> > > false pretences. That is illegal and your PO should know this.
I
> am
> > sure
> > > you
> > > will get quite a bit of harassment for this but who cares. If I
> had
> > > bought
> > > that from you and it didn't work as you stated it did, believe
> me, I
> > > would
> > > get my moneys worth one way or another. Do the right thing and
> give
> > the
> > > money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > ----
> > > ----
> > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
> > entity to
> > >
> > > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> > privileged
> > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other
use
> > of, or
> > >
> > > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
> persons
> > or
> > > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> error,
> > > please
> > > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> > computer..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
entity to
> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
privileged
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
of, or
> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons
or
> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
error, please
> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
computer..
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76923 From: John Stewart <landuse@u...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 0:40pm
Subject: Fwd: RE: Hikers May Disturb Nesting Owls
The following is from Bill Dart of the BlueRibbon Coalition and
provides some additional information about the issue of recreation
disturbance of wildlife.
*********************************************
All
I participated, along with Don Amador, in several days of controlled
research disturbance testing on Northern Spotted Owls on the
Mendocino National Forest last year, as part of a multi-year research
study being conducted by the Forest Service Pacific Southwest
Research Center. Restrictions have been imposed on OHV use in
northern spotted owl habitats, while no restrictions have been
imposed on non-motorized activities, and we have challenged the
assumption that OHV are disruptive. The California OHV program has
provided funding to find out if OHV's really do disturb nesting owls.
In the testing, occupied owl nests with young owls near (300 feet or
less) OHV routes were identified, and a scientist observer got close
enough to watch the nest while the testing took place. The observer
got into position an hour before the test started to ensure his
presence wasn't a factor. Then, groups of 5 to 10 motorcycles would
drive by the nest every 2-3 minutes, for an hour straight, totalling
between 100 and 200 motorcycles in an hour driving by the nest.
The study will be ongoing for several more years, but in all 10 test
sessions last year, no owls left the nest. A couple of them moved
onto a branch for a short period of the test before moving back into
the nest a every single test last year. But no significant
disturbance that would have possible negative consequences for the
young owls was noted.
Another study of tropical songbirds found that the most impacting
human activity was bird watchers.
Studies of deer and elk have found that they will flee at a farther
distance, flee faster, and run farther before stopping from a human
on foot than from a vehicles
The fact is that critters of all kinds are most afraid of the most
feared predator on the planet-a human on foot. They are afraid of
things that quietly sneak up on them. They are not afraid of noise.
They are not afraid of vehicles that they hear coming, that are on a
predictable path, and have no history of eating them.
In spite of this, we hear over and over how we have to restrict OHV
use due to disturbance to wildlife, while we normally hear nothing
about restricting what they fear most-a human on foot.
In the end, science should prevail, and we will be vindicated, but
meanwhile, we all need to protest loud and long whenever the issue of
disturbance by vehicles is a serious problem. The BlueRibbon
Coalition has probably the most extensive collection of studies
available on this topic, and we can share this with anyone who is
dealing with this issue.
Bill Dart, Public Lands Director
Blue Ribbon Coalition
208-237-1008, ex 102
Fax 208-237-9424
-----Original Message-----
From: John Stewart [mailto:jstewart@c...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 8:23 AM
To: Recipient List Suppressed:
Subject: Hikers May Disturb Nesting Owls
The governing board of the Society for Conservation Biology
(http://www.conbio.org/), publishers of the journal 'Conservation
Biology", contains many names and organizations affiliated with the
Wildlands Project.
If anyone harbors doubts about the Wildlands Project's impact on
motorized recreation and its intent for all recreation activities,
pay close attention to this article.
Hikers, once the "no-impact form of recreation", are being targeted
as a disturbance factor of endangered/threatened species.
Also note that Swarthout and Steidl's work is being used to help
establish recreational guidelines around Mexican spotted owl
territories on federal lands in Arizona, New Mexico and Utah.
*******************************************
Hikers May Disturb Nesting Owls
TUCSON, Arizona, January 28, 2003 (ENS) - Low impact outdoor
activities, like hiking, can still have impacts, including scaring
nesting owls off their nests, a new study shows.
The study suggests that hikers visiting some of the canyons where
Mexican spotted owls breed can disrupt the owls' behavior in ways
that might harm their young.
"We suggest that restrictions on hiking intensity should be
considered for canyons with high levels of human activity," write the
authors. Elliott Swarthout, who did this work while at the University
of Arizona in Tucson and is now at the Cornell Laboratory of
Ornithology in Ithaca, New York, and Robert Steidl of the University
of Arizona, report their findings in the February issue of the
journal "Conservation Biology."
The threatened Mexican spotted owl lives in coniferous forests in the
southwest U.S. and Mexico. In Utah, the birds nest, roost and hunt
almost always in steep, narrow canyons. Hiking and other recreational
activities along the canyon bottoms are highest from March to
October, which overlaps with the owls' breeding season.
To see if hiking affects the owls, Swarthout and Steidl studied 10
nests during the breeding season in Utah's Canyonlands and Capitol
Reef National Parks, which had between 400,000 and 650,000 visitors
per year during the two-year study period.
The nests were 36 to 223 feet above the canyon bottoms, and the
researchers observed the owls during a series of experimental "hiking
treatments," in which a hiker passed under a given nest every 15
minutes for four hours during three time periods: early morning,
mid-day and evening.
Swarthout and Steidl found that hiking affected the female owls the
most. The disturbed females spent almost 60 percent less time on prey
handling activities such as feeding their young, and a third less
time on daytime maintenance activities such as tending the nest, and
preening themselves and their young. Preening is important to birds'
health in part because it reduces parasites.
Because female Mexican spotted owls provide almost all of the
parental care, these behavioral changes could harm their young. Fewer
than a third of the young survive in the best of circumstances, and
getting less food and other kinds of care could make them even more
vulnerable.
The experimental hiking level in this study is higher than the actual
hiking levels in most of southern Utah's canyons. However, several of
the canyons where the owls live have more than 50 visitors per day,
which is close to the experimental hiking level.
In such areas, the researchers recommend protecting owl habitat
during the late March to early June nesting season by limiting hiking
or establishing buffers around nest sites. The researchers had
previously found that 95 percent of owls were not flushed when hikers
stayed about 80 feet away.
However, many canyons are so narrow that buffers of this size would
preclude hiking in them.
Swarthout and Steidl's work is being used to help establish
recreational guidelines around Mexican spotted owl territories on
federal lands in Arizona, New Mexico and Utah.
--
John Stewart
Director, Environmental Affairs, UFWDA, http://www.ufwda.org
Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
Webmaster, Tierra del Sol 4x4: http://www.tds4x4.com
Webmaster, Jeep-L: http://www.jeep-l.net
76924 From: <AZICE626@a...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 7:46am
Subject: Re: Lucky Jeeper
saw that on JU last nite.....the very same thing happened to a friend of mine about 10 years ago....rolled his jeep out in AJ somewhere and got thrown.....they found him laying across the power lines.....tj
76925 From: Michael Beckham <jeepnut7261@h...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 0:53pm
Subject: RE: Re: Winch theft
I don't know any of the people involved, but this is getting out of hand. You who a writing about doing physical injury are commiting assualt. If you actually touch the guy, it's assualt and battery. If you are not involved, let it alone. I have kids who veiw this mail, and it's supposed to be a family site.
Brandon can make a complaint to the proper authorties, if he choses not to, he can only blame himself.
Quit whining!
Don't we have better things to talk about?
Michael (Max) Beckham
Paradise valley Mortgage Professionals
623-330-8987
>From: "Trujillo, Jeff"
>To: "AZVJC (E-mail)"
>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Winch theft
>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:36:02 -0700
>
>We still like you flexy :o) ....everyone has a right to their own
>opinion..whether right or wrong. The way I see it, if I was the one to sell
>the wench and it didn't work after you got it home I would work with you.
>Not just say....to bad. Yea, we haven't heard Ray's side of the story (why
>not), so let him tell his story. Why is he not willing to help out? Because
>he has car payments? Because he has to pay his PO? That still leaves a bad
>taste in my mouth.
>
>
>Jeffrey A. Trujillo
>Field Service Representative
>MD Helicopters, Inc.
>jeff.trujillo@mdhelicopters.com
>Voice:(480)346-6249
>Fax:(480)346-6813
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe [mailto:flexyxj98@msn.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:41 PM
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Winch theft
>
>
>So whats you story???? Lets hear it....I hope this does not make the
>group hate me or ruin my credibility with the group, I just believe
>there is ANOTHER side of the story here....If I knew anyone on this
>list personaly was getting hammered like this, I would do the same
>for you also...if the circumstances were the same
>
>
> Flexy
>
>
>
>
>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Eric "
> wrote:
> > I had a run in with one of the Brattons (dad) as well. All I can
>say
> > is I personally will never do business with him. I do not know
>about
> > the son. It is pretty sad that this had to happen. I hope the
>people
> > involved to the right thing and make this right for Brandon
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BradP Kilgore"
> > wrote:
> > > FYI....
> > >
> > > This is the person that sold the winch BigDent10@H..., I think
> > > the other bratton5337@m... is his dad. Brandon talked to the dad
>as
> > > well, and he could not/would not help with the situation.
> > >
> > > Ray Bratton Jr. Spouse/BF/GF/SO: none not needed
> > > Location: Glendale Trail Preference: 4-5
> > > Children/Pets: My Jeep is all I need
> > > Phone: 623-934-0618 EMail: BigDent10@H...
> > > Address: 4831 w Brown St Glendale AZ 85302
> > > Website: Occupation: slasemen
> > >
> > > Ray Bratton Spouse/BF/GF/SO:
> > > Location: Glendale Az Trail Preference: 4.0
> > > Children/Pets:
> > > Phone: 602-579-7345 EMail: bratton5337@m...
> > > Address: Glendale, Az
> > > Website: Occupation: Precision Tool Grinder
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Trujillo, Jeff [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:15 AM
> > > To: 'bratton5337@m...'
> > > Cc: AZVJC (E-mail)
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Winch theft
> > >
> > > Ray, I know that you have been reading all these posts and feel
> > guilty
> > > inside even if you don't admit it. The right thing to do is cough
> > up the
> > > money. NOT pay for half of the repair he suggested. You sold an
>item
> > > under
> > > false pretences. That is illegal and your PO should know this. I
>am
> > sure
> > > you
> > > will get quite a bit of harassment for this but who cares. If I
>had
> > > bought
> > > that from you and it didn't work as you stated it did, believe
>me, I
> > > would
> > > get my moneys worth one way or another. Do the right thing and
>give
> > the
> > > money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
>--
> > ----
> > > ----
> > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
> > entity to
> > >
> > > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> > privileged
> > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
> > of, or
> > >
> > > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
>persons
> > or
> > > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
>error,
> > > please
> > > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> > computer..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
>which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
>material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
>taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
>entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
>MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
>contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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76926 From: Michael Beckham <jeepnut7261@h...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 0:56pm
Subject: Re: Re: Winch theft
OUCH! dang g-string.........( you meant to the wife didn't you? I HAVE TO RUN FOR MY LIFE NOW!!!)
But it was all in good fun Honey! Really!
Michael (Max) Beckham
Paradise valley Mortgage Professionals
623-330-8987
>From: vernellem@cs.com
>To: flexyxj98@msn.com, az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Winch theft
>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:03:10 EST
>
>Hmnn....You've got a point there. Maybe I should add a 3rd choice to the
>vote.
>A. Give Ray a wedgie at the next get together.
>B. Get a Rope!
>C. Everyone reach back and give themselves a wedgie. (This would be on the
>Honor System, of course!)
>Vernelle
>
>
>
> andIn a message dated 1/29/2003 12:41:23 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
>flexyxj98@msn.com writes:
> > OK, Enough is enough.... I have tried too long to stay out of
> > this...If I offend anyone than so be it....I have tried the step back
> > and let it play out thing that everyone suggests....TOO LATE...FIRST
> > OFF...Let me say that I have known Ray and his dad for quite some
> > time, so I do have the knowledge to talk about this..All of you
> > people who have no damn Idea about Ray or Brandon that are jumping on
> > the bandwagon...GET OFF!!! Damn it this pisses me off...First off,
> > why would you buy a winch if it didnt work?? I KNOW THE WINCH
> > WORKED. I helped him spool it out and wind it right before it came
> > off his jeep. I saw it with my own eyes. Second, why would you not do
> > some testing on the winch yourself,(or use this board and ask how to
> > test it, god knows there have been STUPIDER questions asked before)
> > Other than just running a winch to 4 wheelers to get it
> > fixed...besides you paid how much for the winch?? 600.00?? and then
> > it cost what 200 to fix it??? oh my sad pity that to got a 950.00
> > winch for 800 dollars....thats why I try NEVer to post anything for
> > sale on here because everyone wants something for free...like the d44
> > locker I was trying to sell That one club member offered me 100
> > dollars for and actually told me I was a theif for asking that much
> > $$$ for a Used Power trax..hmm a 400 dollar locker for 300
> > dollars...oh wait It did have almost 8000 miles on it ....guess it
> > was 3/4 worn...All I am saying to you certain people who have NO idea
> > what the hell is going on to stay the hell out of it. Yes I have
> > spoken with Ray, he does feel bad about it, but like him, I think you
> > should be more educated about what you buy either new or used...If
> > you people feel the need to flame me than go ahead, because I am sure
> > the ones who flame will be the same **** stirrers that want to hang
> > him...oh yeah BTW BRAD KILGORE, lets talk about taking responsibility
> > for what you do....how bout that tire carrier, that was ORF's
> > fault....wanna talk about that on list????
> >
> >
> > FLEXYXJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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76927 From: Dan Dennis <dannpegg@c...> <dannpegg@c...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 1:42pm
Subject: '97 TJ Suspension Questions...
I put a Pro Comp 2" suspension lift on my TJ and as an old Jeeper
told me, "You won't be happy with it..." Guess what, I'm not happy
with it. It was just a kit with 4 coils and four shocks. Here's the
question...Is it safe/smart to put coil spacers on it? I don't do the
crazy (relative term) rock crawling stuff(just a beginner), just want
some more clearance for bigger tires. OK, two questions...It's only
got the 2.5L and it's my daily driver as well as my Funmobile. I
notice on the highway with the 31" tires that are on it that it has
no B@LLS. What do I need to do gearing-wise to regain this but not
destroy the off-road capabilities? I want to put some type of lockers
in because I'm tired of spinnig 2 tires while climbing. Any
help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If I'm a dumbass for
thinking about this in the first place, you can tell me that as well.
Thanks...
AZ Treadhead
'97 TJ (BRUZR) in LHC
76928 From: TODD MCCULLEN <desertfab@m...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 1:44pm
Subject: Re: Re: 3/4 elip. suspension
The main reason to four link is it eliminates axle wrap & it will keep the axle from being push under the rig in a droop situation and backing up over a ledge.
A 3/4 elip will flex as well as a coil set up with out the head aches of proper coil spring rates.
The advantage of coil or 1/4 elip. is you can move the axle back as far as you want, where leaf spring you are limited.
Todd
www.desertfab.com
----- Original Message -----
From: DesertJeep
To: 'Roger Tomas' ; 'TODD MCCULLEN'
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:40 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: 3/4 elip. suspension
Why would you add a 3 or 4 link to a 3/4? Wouldn't that be needed for a 1/4 elliptical? Or do I have them backwards?
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Tomas [mailto:tomasr@agcs.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:03 AM
To: TODD MCCULLEN
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: 3/4 elip. suspension
Todd,
I'm guessing "set up proper" means adding 3 or 4 link to
control the axle movement. Is that correct? If so, I'd
think that if you're gonna go to the trouble of adding links,
then you might as well switch to coils. Do you agree?
(Personally, I think one of the selling points of leaf springs
is their simplicity and adding links takes away the simplicity.
But I've never run anything but basic leaf springs.)
-Roger
TODD MCCULLEN wrote:
If a 3/4 elip. suspension is set up proper, it works great! Toddwww.desertfab.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
76929 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 1:54pm
Subject: Re: '97 TJ Suspension Questions...
How much bigger do you want to go with the tires ??
What are you unhappy about, regarding the lift ??
Regarding gearing, probably 4.88's (which is as deep as you can go with your
current axle setu), but it's going to depend what you want to do, tire wise.
Let's start there and see where this goes.
Cheers,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: <dannpegg@c...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 2:42 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] '97 TJ Suspension Questions...
> I put a Pro Comp 2" suspension lift on my TJ and as an old Jeeper
> told me, "You won't be happy with it..." Guess what, I'm not happy
> with it. It was just a kit with 4 coils and four shocks. Here's the
> question...Is it safe/smart to put coil spacers on it? I don't do the
> crazy (relative term) rock crawling stuff(just a beginner), just want
> some more clearance for bigger tires. OK, two questions...It's only
> got the 2.5L and it's my daily driver as well as my Funmobile. I
> notice on the highway with the 31" tires that are on it that it has
> no B@LLS. What do I need to do gearing-wise to regain this but not
> destroy the off-road capabilities? I want to put some type of lockers
> in because I'm tired of spinnig 2 tires while climbing. Any
> help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If I'm a dumbass for
> thinking about this in the first place, you can tell me that as well.
>
> Thanks...
> AZ Treadhead
> '97 TJ (BRUZR) in LHC
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
76905 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:07am
Subject: [FS] WANTED-3.73 gears for a 10,12 bolt
Price: ?
Contact: ultralite_1234@yahoo.com
i need a set of 3.73 gears for my truck.
e-mail me if you have any.
Kyle Snowberger
Kyle Snowberger
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
76906 From: Vernelle Massey <vernellem@c...> <vernellem@c...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:12am
Subject: I think it's time for a vote on the wench situation!
I think it's time for a vote on the wench situation!
Vote A. He's earned a wedgie at the next group get together.
or B. Get a rope!
76907 From: Trujillo, Jeff <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:55am
Subject: RE: I think it's time for a vote on the wench situation!
B -- enough said
Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice:(480)346-6249
Fax:(480)346-6813
-----Original Message-----
From: Vernelle Massey <vernellem@c...> [mailto:vernellem@c...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:12 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] I think it's time for a vote on the wench situation!
I think it's time for a vote on the wench situation!
Vote A. He's earned a wedgie at the next group get together.
or B. Get a rope!
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
76908 From: Trujillo, Jeff <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:56am
Subject: Lucky Jeeper
Anyone see this on the news? Its amazing as heck!!!
http://www.msnbc.com/news/865587.asp?0cv=CB20
Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice:(480)346-6249
Fax:(480)346-6813
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
76909 From: BradP Kilgore <brad.kilgore@p...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:16am
Subject: RE: Winch theft
FYI....
This is the person that sold the winch BigDent10@H..., I think
the other bratton5337@m... is his dad. Brandon talked to the dad as
well, and he could not/would not help with the situation.
Ray Bratton Jr. Spouse/BF/GF/SO: none not needed
Location: Glendale Trail Preference: 4-5
Children/Pets: My Jeep is all I need
Phone: 623-934-0618 EMail: BigDent10@H...
Address: 4831 w Brown St Glendale AZ 85302
Website: Occupation: slasemen
Ray Bratton Spouse/BF/GF/SO:
Location: Glendale Az Trail Preference: 4.0
Children/Pets:
Phone: 602-579-7345 EMail: bratton5337@m...
Address: Glendale, Az
Website: Occupation: Precision Tool Grinder
-----Original Message-----
From: Trujillo, Jeff [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:15 AM
To: 'bratton5337@m...'
Cc: AZVJC (E-mail)
Subject: [az_vjc] Winch theft
Ray, I know that you have been reading all these posts and feel guilty
inside even if you don't admit it. The right thing to do is cough up the
money. NOT pay for half of the repair he suggested. You sold an item
under
false pretences. That is illegal and your PO should know this. I am sure
you
will get quite a bit of harassment for this but who cares. If I had
bought
that from you and it didn't work as you stated it did, believe me, I
would
get my moneys worth one way or another. Do the right thing and give the
money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error,
please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76910 From: Eric <parajeeper02@y...> <parajeeper02@y...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:35am
Subject: Re: Winch theft
I had a run in with one of the Brattons (dad) as well. All I can say
is I personally will never do business with him. I do not know about
the son. It is pretty sad that this had to happen. I hope the people
involved to the right thing and make this right for Brandon
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BradP Kilgore" <brad.kilgore@p...>
wrote:
> FYI....
>
> This is the person that sold the winch BigDent10@H..., I think
> the other bratton5337@m... is his dad. Brandon talked to the dad as
> well, and he could not/would not help with the situation.
>
> Ray Bratton Jr. Spouse/BF/GF/SO: none not needed
> Location: Glendale Trail Preference: 4-5
> Children/Pets: My Jeep is all I need
> Phone: 623-934-0618 EMail: BigDent10@H...
> Address: 4831 w Brown St Glendale AZ 85302
> Website: Occupation: slasemen
>
> Ray Bratton Spouse/BF/GF/SO:
> Location: Glendale Az Trail Preference: 4.0
> Children/Pets:
> Phone: 602-579-7345 EMail: bratton5337@m...
> Address: Glendale, Az
> Website: Occupation: Precision Tool Grinder
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trujillo, Jeff [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:15 AM
> To: 'bratton5337@m...'
> Cc: AZVJC (E-mail)
> Subject: [az_vjc] Winch theft
>
> Ray, I know that you have been reading all these posts and feel
guilty
> inside even if you don't admit it. The right thing to do is cough
up the
> money. NOT pay for half of the repair he suggested. You sold an item
> under
> false pretences. That is illegal and your PO should know this. I am
sure
> you
> will get quite a bit of harassment for this but who cares. If I had
> bought
> that from you and it didn't work as you stated it did, believe me, I
> would
> get my moneys worth one way or another. Do the right thing and give
the
> money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> ----
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
entity to
>
> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
privileged
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
of, or
>
> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons
or
> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error,
> please
> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
computer..
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76911 From: Joe <flexyxj98@m...> <flexyxj98@m...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:37am
Subject: Re: Winch theft
OK, Enough is enough.... I have tried too long to stay out of
this...If I offend anyone than so be it....I have tried the step back
and let it play out thing that everyone suggests....TOO LATE...FIRST
OFF...Let me say that I have known Ray and his dad for quite some
time, so I do have the knowledge to talk about this..All of you
people who have no damn Idea about Ray or Brandon that are jumping on
the bandwagon...GET OFF!!! Damn it this pisses me off...First off,
why would you buy a winch if it didnt work?? I KNOW THE WINCH
WORKED. I helped him spool it out and wind it right before it came
off his jeep. I saw it with my own eyes. Second, why would you not do
some testing on the winch yourself,(or use this board and ask how to
test it, god knows there have been STUPIDER questions asked before)
Other than just running a winch to 4 wheelers to get it
fixed...besides you paid how much for the winch?? 600.00?? and then
it cost what 200 to fix it??? oh my sad pity that to got a 950.00
winch for 800 dollars....thats why I try NEVer to post anything for
sale on here because everyone wants something for free...like the d44
locker I was trying to sell That one club member offered me 100
dollars for and actually told me I was a theif for asking that much
$$$ for a Used Power trax..hmm a 400 dollar locker for 300
dollars...oh wait It did have almost 8000 miles on it ....guess it
was 3/4 worn...All I am saying to you certain people who have NO idea
what the hell is going on to stay the hell out of it. Yes I have
spoken with Ray, he does feel bad about it, but like him, I think you
should be more educated about what you buy either new or used...If
you people feel the need to flame me than go ahead, because I am sure
the ones who flame will be the same **** stirrers that want to hang
him...oh yeah BTW BRAD KILGORE, lets talk about taking responsibility
for what you do....how bout that tire carrier, that was ORF's
fault....wanna talk about that on list????
FLEXYXJ
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BradP Kilgore" <brad.kilgore@p...>
wrote:
> FYI....
>
> This is the person that sold the winch BigDent10@H..., I think
> the other bratton5337@m... is his dad. Brandon talked to the dad as
> well, and he could not/would not help with the situation.
>
> Ray Bratton Jr. Spouse/BF/GF/SO: none not needed
> Location: Glendale Trail Preference: 4-5
> Children/Pets: My Jeep is all I need
> Phone: 623-934-0618 EMail: BigDent10@H...
> Address: 4831 w Brown St Glendale AZ 85302
> Website: Occupation: slasemen
>
> Ray Bratton Spouse/BF/GF/SO:
> Location: Glendale Az Trail Preference: 4.0
> Children/Pets:
> Phone: 602-579-7345 EMail: bratton5337@m...
> Address: Glendale, Az
> Website: Occupation: Precision Tool Grinder
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trujillo, Jeff [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:15 AM
> To: 'bratton5337@m...'
> Cc: AZVJC (E-mail)
> Subject: [az_vjc] Winch theft
>
> Ray, I know that you have been reading all these posts and feel
guilty
> inside even if you don't admit it. The right thing to do is cough
up the
> money. NOT pay for half of the repair he suggested. You sold an item
> under
> false pretences. That is illegal and your PO should know this. I am
sure
> you
> will get quite a bit of harassment for this but who cares. If I had
> bought
> that from you and it didn't work as you stated it did, believe me, I
> would
> get my moneys worth one way or another. Do the right thing and give
the
> money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> ----
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
entity to
>
> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
privileged
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
of, or
>
> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons
or
> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error,
> please
> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
computer..
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76912 From: Joe <flexyxj98@m...> <flexyxj98@m...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:41am
Subject: Re: Winch theft
So whats you story???? Lets hear it....I hope this does not make the
group hate me or ruin my credibility with the group, I just believe
there is ANOTHER side of the story here....If I knew anyone on this
list personaly was getting hammered like this, I would do the same
for you also...if the circumstances were the same
Flexy
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Eric <parajeeper02@y...>"
<parajeeper02@y...> wrote:
> I had a run in with one of the Brattons (dad) as well. All I can
say
> is I personally will never do business with him. I do not know
about
> the son. It is pretty sad that this had to happen. I hope the
people
> involved to the right thing and make this right for Brandon
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BradP Kilgore" <brad.kilgore@p...>
> wrote:
> > FYI....
> >
> > This is the person that sold the winch BigDent10@H..., I think
> > the other bratton5337@m... is his dad. Brandon talked to the dad
as
> > well, and he could not/would not help with the situation.
> >
> > Ray Bratton Jr. Spouse/BF/GF/SO: none not needed
> > Location: Glendale Trail Preference: 4-5
> > Children/Pets: My Jeep is all I need
> > Phone: 623-934-0618 EMail: BigDent10@H...
> > Address: 4831 w Brown St Glendale AZ 85302
> > Website: Occupation: slasemen
> >
> > Ray Bratton Spouse/BF/GF/SO:
> > Location: Glendale Az Trail Preference: 4.0
> > Children/Pets:
> > Phone: 602-579-7345 EMail: bratton5337@m...
> > Address: Glendale, Az
> > Website: Occupation: Precision Tool Grinder
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Trujillo, Jeff [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:15 AM
> > To: 'bratton5337@m...'
> > Cc: AZVJC (E-mail)
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Winch theft
> >
> > Ray, I know that you have been reading all these posts and feel
> guilty
> > inside even if you don't admit it. The right thing to do is cough
> up the
> > money. NOT pay for half of the repair he suggested. You sold an
item
> > under
> > false pretences. That is illegal and your PO should know this. I
am
> sure
> > you
> > will get quite a bit of harassment for this but who cares. If I
had
> > bought
> > that from you and it didn't work as you stated it did, believe
me, I
> > would
> > get my moneys worth one way or another. Do the right thing and
give
> the
> > money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
> > ----
> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
> entity to
> >
> > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> privileged
> > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
> of, or
> >
> > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
persons
> or
> > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
error,
> > please
> > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> computer..
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76913 From: Joe <flexyxj98@m...> <flexyxj98@m...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:44am
Subject: Re: Fw: Winch misrepresentaion
So are we suggesting that not only does he get his money back, but a
free winch also??? or he gives the $ back and the winch???
Flexy
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "TOYS BY TROY, llc." <TOYSBYTROY@C...>
wrote:
> We knead a pick of his jeep and a discretion of him. So when we
find him on the trail stuck we don't help and we know this will
happen because he destroyed the winch right!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> troy
> From: Craig Micek
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:28 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Fw: Winch misrepresentaion
>
>
> I sent this to our buddy Ray.
>
> Craig
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Craig Micek
> To: bratton5337@m...
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:23 AM
> Subject: Winch misrepresentaion
>
>
> Ray, you really should step up and do the right thing regarding
the winch sale.
> Right now there are about 1500 members of the avjc who believe
you are a crook. You could turn that around very easily. Even if
you don't refund the purchase price, at least split the cost of the
repair. Remember what goes around comes around. It may hurt a
little to cough up a few bucks now, but you will feel better
afterward.
>
> Craig
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
76914 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:54am
Subject: Re: Re: Winch theft
might be a good time for Ray to pipe up in his own defense........(2 sides
to every story yada yada yada)
Frank
BadAzXJ@m...
>From: "Joe <flexyxj98@m...>" <flexyxj98@m...>
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Winch theft
>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 19:37:58 -0000
>
>OK, Enough is enough.... I have tried too long to stay out of
>this...If I offend anyone than so be it....I have tried the step back
>and let it play out thing that everyone suggests....TOO LATE...FIRST
>OFF...Let me say that I have known Ray and his dad for quite some
>time, so I do have the knowledge to talk about this..All of you
>people who have no damn Idea about Ray or Brandon that are jumping on
>the bandwagon...GET OFF!!! Damn it this pisses me off...First off,
>why would you buy a winch if it didnt work?? I KNOW THE WINCH
>WORKED. I helped him spool it out and wind it right before it came
>off his jeep. I saw it with my own eyes. Second, why would you not do
>some testing on the winch yourself,(or use this board and ask how to
>test it, god knows there have been STUPIDER questions asked before)
>Other than just running a winch to 4 wheelers to get it
>fixed...besides you paid how much for the winch?? 600.00?? and then
>it cost what 200 to fix it??? oh my sad pity that to got a 950.00
>winch for 800 dollars....thats why I try NEVer to post anything for
>sale on here because everyone wants something for free...like the d44
>locker I was trying to sell That one club member offered me 100
>dollars for and actually told me I was a theif for asking that much
>$$$ for a Used Power trax..hmm a 400 dollar locker for 300
>dollars...oh wait It did have almost 8000 miles on it ....guess it
>was 3/4 worn...All I am saying to you certain people who have NO idea
>what the hell is going on to stay the hell out of it. Yes I have
>spoken with Ray, he does feel bad about it, but like him, I think you
>should be more educated about what you buy either new or used...If
>you people feel the need to flame me than go ahead, because I am sure
>the ones who flame will be the same **** stirrers that want to hang
>him...oh yeah BTW BRAD KILGORE, lets talk about taking responsibility
>for what you do....how bout that tire carrier, that was ORF's
>fault....wanna talk about that on list????
>
>
>FLEXYXJ
>
>
>
>
>
>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BradP Kilgore" <brad.kilgore@p...>
>wrote:
> > FYI....
> >
> > This is the person that sold the winch BigDent10@H..., I think
> > the other bratton5337@m... is his dad. Brandon talked to the dad as
> > well, and he could not/would not help with the situation.
> >
> > Ray Bratton Jr. Spouse/BF/GF/SO: none not needed
> > Location: Glendale Trail Preference: 4-5
> > Children/Pets: My Jeep is all I need
> > Phone: 623-934-0618 EMail: BigDent10@H...
> > Address: 4831 w Brown St Glendale AZ 85302
> > Website: Occupation: slasemen
> >
> > Ray Bratton Spouse/BF/GF/SO:
> > Location: Glendale Az Trail Preference: 4.0
> > Children/Pets:
> > Phone: 602-579-7345 EMail: bratton5337@m...
> > Address: Glendale, Az
> > Website: Occupation: Precision Tool Grinder
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Trujillo, Jeff [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:15 AM
> > To: 'bratton5337@m...'
> > Cc: AZVJC (E-mail)
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Winch theft
> >
> > Ray, I know that you have been reading all these posts and feel
>guilty
> > inside even if you don't admit it. The right thing to do is cough
>up the
> > money. NOT pay for half of the repair he suggested. You sold an item
> > under
> > false pretences. That is illegal and your PO should know this. I am
>sure
> > you
> > will get quite a bit of harassment for this but who cares. If I had
> > bought
> > that from you and it didn't work as you stated it did, believe me, I
> > would
> > get my moneys worth one way or another. Do the right thing and give
>the
> > money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
> > ----
> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
>entity to
> >
> > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
>privileged
> > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
>of, or
> >
> > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons
>or
> > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error,
> > please
> > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
>computer..
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
__________________________________________________ _______________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
76915 From: Trujillo, Jeff <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:36am
Subject: RE: Re: Winch theft
We still like you flexy :o) ....everyone has a right to their own
opinion..whether right or wrong. The way I see it, if I was the one to sell
the wench and it didn't work after you got it home I would work with you.
Not just say....to bad. Yea, we haven't heard Ray's side of the story (why
not), so let him tell his story. Why is he not willing to help out? Because
he has car payments? Because he has to pay his PO? That still leaves a bad
taste in my mouth.
Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice:(480)346-6249
Fax:(480)346-6813
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe <flexyxj98@m...> [mailto:flexyxj98@m...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:41 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Winch theft
So whats you story???? Lets hear it....I hope this does not make the
group hate me or ruin my credibility with the group, I just believe
there is ANOTHER side of the story here....If I knew anyone on this
list personaly was getting hammered like this, I would do the same
for you also...if the circumstances were the same
Flexy
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Eric <parajeeper02@y...>"
<parajeeper02@y...> wrote:
> I had a run in with one of the Brattons (dad) as well. All I can
say
> is I personally will never do business with him. I do not know
about
> the son. It is pretty sad that this had to happen. I hope the
people
> involved to the right thing and make this right for Brandon
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BradP Kilgore" <brad.kilgore@p...>
> wrote:
> > FYI....
> >
> > This is the person that sold the winch BigDent10@H..., I think
> > the other bratton5337@m... is his dad. Brandon talked to the dad
as
> > well, and he could not/would not help with the situation.
> >
> > Ray Bratton Jr. Spouse/BF/GF/SO: none not needed
> > Location: Glendale Trail Preference: 4-5
> > Children/Pets: My Jeep is all I need
> > Phone: 623-934-0618 EMail: BigDent10@H...
> > Address: 4831 w Brown St Glendale AZ 85302
> > Website: Occupation: slasemen
> >
> > Ray Bratton Spouse/BF/GF/SO:
> > Location: Glendale Az Trail Preference: 4.0
> > Children/Pets:
> > Phone: 602-579-7345 EMail: bratton5337@m...
> > Address: Glendale, Az
> > Website: Occupation: Precision Tool Grinder
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Trujillo, Jeff [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:15 AM
> > To: 'bratton5337@m...'
> > Cc: AZVJC (E-mail)
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Winch theft
> >
> > Ray, I know that you have been reading all these posts and feel
> guilty
> > inside even if you don't admit it. The right thing to do is cough
> up the
> > money. NOT pay for half of the repair he suggested. You sold an
item
> > under
> > false pretences. That is illegal and your PO should know this. I
am
> sure
> > you
> > will get quite a bit of harassment for this but who cares. If I
had
> > bought
> > that from you and it didn't work as you stated it did, believe
me, I
> > would
> > get my moneys worth one way or another. Do the right thing and
give
> the
> > money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
> > ----
> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
> entity to
> >
> > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> privileged
> > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
> of, or
> >
> > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
persons
> or
> > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
error,
> > please
> > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> computer..
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
76916 From: BradP Kilgore <brad.kilgore@p...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:58am
Subject: RE: Re: Fw: Winch misrepresentaion
At this point Brandon has spent $850.00 for a this winch. $600.00 for
the winch and $250.00 for 4Wheelers to repair it. If this individual
would refund ALL of the money, I'm sure Brandon would love to return the
winch, because he could have purchased a new one for this cost. At the
very least, Brandon might accept it if the repairs were covered,
$250.00, but only he can answer that question. Remember, Brandon is the
victim here of a misrepresentation. He does not want anything more then
what is fair and what was promised.
Brad
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe [flexyxj98@m...] [mailto:flexyxj98@m...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:44 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Fw: Winch misrepresentaion
So are we suggesting that not only does he get his money back, but a
free winch also??? or he gives the $ back and the winch???
Flexy
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "TOYS BY TROY, llc." <TOYSBYTROY@C...>
wrote:
> We knead a pick of his jeep and a discretion of him. So when we
find him on the trail stuck we don't help and we know this will
happen because he destroyed the winch right!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> troy
> From: Craig Micek
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:28 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Fw: Winch misrepresentaion
>
>
> I sent this to our buddy Ray.
>
> Craig
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Craig Micek
> To: bratton5337@m...
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:23 AM
> Subject: Winch misrepresentaion
>
>
> Ray, you really should step up and do the right thing regarding
the winch sale.
> Right now there are about 1500 members of the avjc who believe
you are a crook. You could turn that around very easily. Even if
you don't refund the purchase price, at least split the cost of the
repair. Remember what goes around comes around. It may hurt a
little to cough up a few bucks now, but you will feel better
afterward.
>
> Craig
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76917 From: intertwingled <intertwingled@q...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 0:32pm
Subject: Re: Lucky Jeeper
If it's the one about the jeeper who got thrown clear of
his jeep and hit and clung to some telephone/power lines,
I read it in this morning's Arizona Republic. I think
I will start wearing my seatbelts again. =P
Tony
At 11:56 AM 1/29/03 -0700, you wrote:
>Anyone see this on the news? Its amazing as heck!!!
>
>http://www.msnbc.com/news/865587.asp?0cv=CB20
>
>Jeffrey A. Trujillo
>Field Service Representative
>MD Helicopters, Inc.
>jeff.trujillo@m...
>Voice:(480)346-6249
>Fax:(480)346-6813
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
>which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
>material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
>taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
>entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
>MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
>contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
--
even the safest course is fraught with peril
76918 From: Joe <flexyxj98@m...> <flexyxj98@m...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 0:01pm
Subject: Re: Winch theft
I DO believe that ray DID offer to fix the winch for him and he
declined....of course I have not heard from brandon so....whats up
brandon ???? Is this true??? Did ray offer to fix it for you and
you declined, or is this not true????
Flexy
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Trujillo, Jeff" <jeff.trujillo@m...>
wrote:
> We still like you flexy :o) ....everyone has a right to their own
> opinion..whether right or wrong. The way I see it, if I was the one
to sell
> the wench and it didn't work after you got it home I would work
with you.
> Not just say....to bad. Yea, we haven't heard Ray's side of the
story (why
> not), so let him tell his story. Why is he not willing to help out?
Because
> he has car payments? Because he has to pay his PO? That still
leaves a bad
> taste in my mouth.
>
>
> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> Field Service Representative
> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> jeff.trujillo@m...
> Voice:(480)346-6249
> Fax:(480)346-6813
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe <flexyxj98@m...> [mailto:flexyxj98@m...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:41 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Winch theft
>
>
> So whats you story???? Lets hear it....I hope this does not make
the
> group hate me or ruin my credibility with the group, I just believe
> there is ANOTHER side of the story here....If I knew anyone on this
> list personaly was getting hammered like this, I would do the same
> for you also...if the circumstances were the same
>
>
> Flexy
>
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Eric <parajeeper02@y...>"
> <parajeeper02@y...> wrote:
> > I had a run in with one of the Brattons (dad) as well. All I can
> say
> > is I personally will never do business with him. I do not know
> about
> > the son. It is pretty sad that this had to happen. I hope the
> people
> > involved to the right thing and make this right for Brandon
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BradP Kilgore"
<brad.kilgore@p...>
> > wrote:
> > > FYI....
> > >
> > > This is the person that sold the winch BigDent10@H..., I think
> > > the other bratton5337@m... is his dad. Brandon talked to the
dad
> as
> > > well, and he could not/would not help with the situation.
> > >
> > > Ray Bratton Jr. Spouse/BF/GF/SO: none not needed
> > > Location: Glendale Trail Preference: 4-5
> > > Children/Pets: My Jeep is all I need
> > > Phone: 623-934-0618 EMail: BigDent10@H...
> > > Address: 4831 w Brown St Glendale AZ 85302
> > > Website: Occupation: slasemen
> > >
> > > Ray Bratton Spouse/BF/GF/SO:
> > > Location: Glendale Az Trail Preference: 4.0
> > > Children/Pets:
> > > Phone: 602-579-7345 EMail: bratton5337@m...
> > > Address: Glendale, Az
> > > Website: Occupation: Precision Tool Grinder
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Trujillo, Jeff [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:15 AM
> > > To: 'bratton5337@m...'
> > > Cc: AZVJC (E-mail)
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Winch theft
> > >
> > > Ray, I know that you have been reading all these posts and feel
> > guilty
> > > inside even if you don't admit it. The right thing to do is
cough
> > up the
> > > money. NOT pay for half of the repair he suggested. You sold an
> item
> > > under
> > > false pretences. That is illegal and your PO should know this.
I
> am
> > sure
> > > you
> > > will get quite a bit of harassment for this but who cares. If I
> had
> > > bought
> > > that from you and it didn't work as you stated it did, believe
> me, I
> > > would
> > > get my moneys worth one way or another. Do the right thing and
> give
> > the
> > > money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > ----
> > > ----
> > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
> > entity to
> > >
> > > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> > privileged
> > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other
use
> > of, or
> > >
> > > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
> persons
> > or
> > > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> error,
> > > please
> > > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> > computer..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
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> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
entity to
> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
privileged
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
of, or
> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons
or
> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
error, please
> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
computer..
76919 From: <vernellem@c...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 7:03am
Subject: Re: Re: Winch theft
Hmnn....You've got a point there. Maybe I should add a 3rd choice to the vote.
A. Give Ray a wedgie at the next get together.
B. Get a Rope!
C. Everyone reach back and give themselves a wedgie. (This would be on the Honor System, of course!)
Vernelle
andIn a message dated 1/29/2003 12:41:23 PM US Mountain Standard Time, flexyxj98@msn.com writes:
OK, Enough is enough.... I have tried too long to stay out of
this...If I offend anyone than so be it....I have tried the step back
and let it play out thing that everyone suggests....TOO LATE...FIRST
OFF...Let me say that I have known Ray and his dad for quite some
time, so I do have the knowledge to talk about this..All of you
people who have no damn Idea about Ray or Brandon that are jumping on
the bandwagon...GET OFF!!! Damn it this pisses me off...First off,
why would you buy a winch if it didnt work?? I KNOW THE WINCH
WORKED. I helped him spool it out and wind it right before it came
off his jeep. I saw it with my own eyes. Second, why would you not do
some testing on the winch yourself,(or use this board and ask how to
test it, god knows there have been STUPIDER questions asked before)
Other than just running a winch to 4 wheelers to get it
fixed...besides you paid how much for the winch?? 600.00?? and then
it cost what 200 to fix it??? oh my sad pity that to got a 950.00
winch for 800 dollars....thats why I try NEVer to post anything for
sale on here because everyone wants something for free...like the d44
locker I was trying to sell That one club member offered me 100
dollars for and actually told me I was a theif for asking that much
$$$ for a Used Power trax..hmm a 400 dollar locker for 300
dollars...oh wait It did have almost 8000 miles on it ....guess it
was 3/4 worn...All I am saying to you certain people who have NO idea
what the hell is going on to stay the hell out of it. Yes I have
spoken with Ray, he does feel bad about it, but like him, I think you
should be more educated about what you buy either new or used...If
you people feel the need to flame me than go ahead, because I am sure
the ones who flame will be the same **** stirrers that want to hang
him...oh yeah BTW BRAD KILGORE, lets talk about taking responsibility
for what you do....how bout that tire carrier, that was ORF's
fault....wanna talk about that on list????
FLEXYXJ
76920 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 0:07pm
Subject: Thanks to Kevinsjeepparts and flexyxj
Kevin fabricated me a set of his square tube sliders a couple of weeks back.
They didnt fit properly (XJ's vary in length from frame to pinch rail and
mine happens to be a bigger space) and I gave him a call. He picked them up
from Kongs and modified them and brought them back to the shop. Thanks
Kevin. Its things like this that solidify your well deserved reputation.
Anyone else interested in his sliders can check them out at
www.kevinsjeepparts.com
Frank
BadAzXJ@m...
PS. Thanks to Flexy also for weldin them on for me. :)
__________________________________________________ _______________
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76921 From: Vernelle Massey <vernellem@c...> <vernellem@c...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 0:09pm
Subject: 2 sides to every story......
Hmnn....You've got a point there. Maybe I should add a 3rd choice to
the vote.
A. Give Ray a wedgie at the next get together.
B. Get a Rope!
C. Everyone reach back and give themselves a wedgie. (This would be on
the Honor System, of course!)
Vernelle
76922 From: BradP Kilgore <brad.kilgore@p...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 0:32pm
Subject: RE: Re: Winch theft
I just talked to Brandon and apparently Ray called him around 11:30 this
morning. I hate paraphrasing this, but Brandon said he would not be
near a computer for awhile. Ok here goes: My comments are in ().
Ray called earlier and offered to look at the winch, himself, and would
try to fix the winch, himself, but would not pay for any of the parts.
Brandon said he had already had the winch repaired by 4Wheelers and
asked Ray to at least pay half of the repair. Ray said no, that
4Wheelers was ripping him (Brandon) off lying to him and that there was
nothing wrong with the motor the problem is with the solenoid. (If
there was nothing wrong with the winch to begin with, why is Ray so sure
there is a problem with the solenoid? ) This was said several times.
Ray went on to say that he had used the winch to winch himself once,
pull a buddy out once and pull a couple of tree stumps. (Funny this was
not in the original post) Ray made several statements about the winch
working for him and that the clicking/grinding noise was the way it was
supposed to sound. Ray suggested that Brandon must have done something
to the winch after taking it home.
The conversation went back and forth for a few minutes and then
basically ended when they realized nothing was being accomplished. Ray
added that he was going to have some friends post on his behalf and say
they have dealt with him before and he was ok. Ray Also said that if
Brandon did not retract his posts that he (Ray) was going to sue
(Brandon) for slander.
(Why isn't Ray defending himself and telling his side of the story, he
is obviously watching the posts?)
End of conversation.
So Flexy, are you one of the friends Ray called? I want to be fair and
would be more than willing to hear Ray give his side of the story, as
would everybody. So, where is he? I just noticed that his E-Mail
address come back undeliverable as does his dads now. Offering to fix
something you sell to someone, as long as they pay the bill, is no deal.
That would be like buying a car, having the transmission fall out on the
way home, and have the seller offer to fix it, if you paid for
everything. Wow, does not sound like a good deal to me.
As always, just my opinion, others may be different.
Brad
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe [flexyxj98@m...] [mailto:flexyxj98@m...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 1:01 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Winch theft
I DO believe that ray DID offer to fix the winch for him and he
declined....of course I have not heard from brandon so....whats up
brandon ???? Is this true??? Did ray offer to fix it for you and
you declined, or is this not true????
Flexy
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Trujillo, Jeff" <jeff.trujillo@m...>
wrote:
> We still like you flexy :o) ....everyone has a right to their own
> opinion..whether right or wrong. The way I see it, if I was the one
to sell
> the wench and it didn't work after you got it home I would work
with you.
> Not just say....to bad. Yea, we haven't heard Ray's side of the
story (why
> not), so let him tell his story. Why is he not willing to help out?
Because
> he has car payments? Because he has to pay his PO? That still
leaves a bad
> taste in my mouth.
>
>
> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> Field Service Representative
> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> jeff.trujillo@m...
> Voice:(480)346-6249
> Fax:(480)346-6813
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe <flexyxj98@m...> [mailto:flexyxj98@m...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:41 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Winch theft
>
>
> So whats you story???? Lets hear it....I hope this does not make
the
> group hate me or ruin my credibility with the group, I just believe
> there is ANOTHER side of the story here....If I knew anyone on this
> list personaly was getting hammered like this, I would do the same
> for you also...if the circumstances were the same
>
>
> Flexy
>
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Eric <parajeeper02@y...>"
> <parajeeper02@y...> wrote:
> > I had a run in with one of the Brattons (dad) as well. All I can
> say
> > is I personally will never do business with him. I do not know
> about
> > the son. It is pretty sad that this had to happen. I hope the
> people
> > involved to the right thing and make this right for Brandon
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BradP Kilgore"
<brad.kilgore@p...>
> > wrote:
> > > FYI....
> > >
> > > This is the person that sold the winch BigDent10@H..., I think
> > > the other bratton5337@m... is his dad. Brandon talked to the
dad
> as
> > > well, and he could not/would not help with the situation.
> > >
> > > Ray Bratton Jr. Spouse/BF/GF/SO: none not needed
> > > Location: Glendale Trail Preference: 4-5
> > > Children/Pets: My Jeep is all I need
> > > Phone: 623-934-0618 EMail: BigDent10@H...
> > > Address: 4831 w Brown St Glendale AZ 85302
> > > Website: Occupation: slasemen
> > >
> > > Ray Bratton Spouse/BF/GF/SO:
> > > Location: Glendale Az Trail Preference: 4.0
> > > Children/Pets:
> > > Phone: 602-579-7345 EMail: bratton5337@m...
> > > Address: Glendale, Az
> > > Website: Occupation: Precision Tool Grinder
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Trujillo, Jeff [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:15 AM
> > > To: 'bratton5337@m...'
> > > Cc: AZVJC (E-mail)
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Winch theft
> > >
> > > Ray, I know that you have been reading all these posts and feel
> > guilty
> > > inside even if you don't admit it. The right thing to do is
cough
> > up the
> > > money. NOT pay for half of the repair he suggested. You sold an
> item
> > > under
> > > false pretences. That is illegal and your PO should know this.
I
> am
> > sure
> > > you
> > > will get quite a bit of harassment for this but who cares. If I
> had
> > > bought
> > > that from you and it didn't work as you stated it did, believe
> me, I
> > > would
> > > get my moneys worth one way or another. Do the right thing and
> give
> > the
> > > money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > ----
> > > ----
> > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
> > entity to
> > >
> > > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> > privileged
> > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other
use
> > of, or
> > >
> > > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
> persons
> > or
> > > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
> error,
> > > please
> > > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> > computer..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
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> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
privileged
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
of, or
> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons
or
> entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
error, please
> contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
computer..
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76923 From: John Stewart <landuse@u...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 0:40pm
Subject: Fwd: RE: Hikers May Disturb Nesting Owls
The following is from Bill Dart of the BlueRibbon Coalition and
provides some additional information about the issue of recreation
disturbance of wildlife.
*********************************************
All
I participated, along with Don Amador, in several days of controlled
research disturbance testing on Northern Spotted Owls on the
Mendocino National Forest last year, as part of a multi-year research
study being conducted by the Forest Service Pacific Southwest
Research Center. Restrictions have been imposed on OHV use in
northern spotted owl habitats, while no restrictions have been
imposed on non-motorized activities, and we have challenged the
assumption that OHV are disruptive. The California OHV program has
provided funding to find out if OHV's really do disturb nesting owls.
In the testing, occupied owl nests with young owls near (300 feet or
less) OHV routes were identified, and a scientist observer got close
enough to watch the nest while the testing took place. The observer
got into position an hour before the test started to ensure his
presence wasn't a factor. Then, groups of 5 to 10 motorcycles would
drive by the nest every 2-3 minutes, for an hour straight, totalling
between 100 and 200 motorcycles in an hour driving by the nest.
The study will be ongoing for several more years, but in all 10 test
sessions last year, no owls left the nest. A couple of them moved
onto a branch for a short period of the test before moving back into
the nest a every single test last year. But no significant
disturbance that would have possible negative consequences for the
young owls was noted.
Another study of tropical songbirds found that the most impacting
human activity was bird watchers.
Studies of deer and elk have found that they will flee at a farther
distance, flee faster, and run farther before stopping from a human
on foot than from a vehicles
The fact is that critters of all kinds are most afraid of the most
feared predator on the planet-a human on foot. They are afraid of
things that quietly sneak up on them. They are not afraid of noise.
They are not afraid of vehicles that they hear coming, that are on a
predictable path, and have no history of eating them.
In spite of this, we hear over and over how we have to restrict OHV
use due to disturbance to wildlife, while we normally hear nothing
about restricting what they fear most-a human on foot.
In the end, science should prevail, and we will be vindicated, but
meanwhile, we all need to protest loud and long whenever the issue of
disturbance by vehicles is a serious problem. The BlueRibbon
Coalition has probably the most extensive collection of studies
available on this topic, and we can share this with anyone who is
dealing with this issue.
Bill Dart, Public Lands Director
Blue Ribbon Coalition
208-237-1008, ex 102
Fax 208-237-9424
-----Original Message-----
From: John Stewart [mailto:jstewart@c...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 8:23 AM
To: Recipient List Suppressed:
Subject: Hikers May Disturb Nesting Owls
The governing board of the Society for Conservation Biology
(http://www.conbio.org/), publishers of the journal 'Conservation
Biology", contains many names and organizations affiliated with the
Wildlands Project.
If anyone harbors doubts about the Wildlands Project's impact on
motorized recreation and its intent for all recreation activities,
pay close attention to this article.
Hikers, once the "no-impact form of recreation", are being targeted
as a disturbance factor of endangered/threatened species.
Also note that Swarthout and Steidl's work is being used to help
establish recreational guidelines around Mexican spotted owl
territories on federal lands in Arizona, New Mexico and Utah.
*******************************************
Hikers May Disturb Nesting Owls
TUCSON, Arizona, January 28, 2003 (ENS) - Low impact outdoor
activities, like hiking, can still have impacts, including scaring
nesting owls off their nests, a new study shows.
The study suggests that hikers visiting some of the canyons where
Mexican spotted owls breed can disrupt the owls' behavior in ways
that might harm their young.
"We suggest that restrictions on hiking intensity should be
considered for canyons with high levels of human activity," write the
authors. Elliott Swarthout, who did this work while at the University
of Arizona in Tucson and is now at the Cornell Laboratory of
Ornithology in Ithaca, New York, and Robert Steidl of the University
of Arizona, report their findings in the February issue of the
journal "Conservation Biology."
The threatened Mexican spotted owl lives in coniferous forests in the
southwest U.S. and Mexico. In Utah, the birds nest, roost and hunt
almost always in steep, narrow canyons. Hiking and other recreational
activities along the canyon bottoms are highest from March to
October, which overlaps with the owls' breeding season.
To see if hiking affects the owls, Swarthout and Steidl studied 10
nests during the breeding season in Utah's Canyonlands and Capitol
Reef National Parks, which had between 400,000 and 650,000 visitors
per year during the two-year study period.
The nests were 36 to 223 feet above the canyon bottoms, and the
researchers observed the owls during a series of experimental "hiking
treatments," in which a hiker passed under a given nest every 15
minutes for four hours during three time periods: early morning,
mid-day and evening.
Swarthout and Steidl found that hiking affected the female owls the
most. The disturbed females spent almost 60 percent less time on prey
handling activities such as feeding their young, and a third less
time on daytime maintenance activities such as tending the nest, and
preening themselves and their young. Preening is important to birds'
health in part because it reduces parasites.
Because female Mexican spotted owls provide almost all of the
parental care, these behavioral changes could harm their young. Fewer
than a third of the young survive in the best of circumstances, and
getting less food and other kinds of care could make them even more
vulnerable.
The experimental hiking level in this study is higher than the actual
hiking levels in most of southern Utah's canyons. However, several of
the canyons where the owls live have more than 50 visitors per day,
which is close to the experimental hiking level.
In such areas, the researchers recommend protecting owl habitat
during the late March to early June nesting season by limiting hiking
or establishing buffers around nest sites. The researchers had
previously found that 95 percent of owls were not flushed when hikers
stayed about 80 feet away.
However, many canyons are so narrow that buffers of this size would
preclude hiking in them.
Swarthout and Steidl's work is being used to help establish
recreational guidelines around Mexican spotted owl territories on
federal lands in Arizona, New Mexico and Utah.
--
John Stewart
Director, Environmental Affairs, UFWDA, http://www.ufwda.org
Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
Webmaster, Tierra del Sol 4x4: http://www.tds4x4.com
Webmaster, Jeep-L: http://www.jeep-l.net
76924 From: <AZICE626@a...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 7:46am
Subject: Re: Lucky Jeeper
saw that on JU last nite.....the very same thing happened to a friend of mine about 10 years ago....rolled his jeep out in AJ somewhere and got thrown.....they found him laying across the power lines.....tj
76925 From: Michael Beckham <jeepnut7261@h...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 0:53pm
Subject: RE: Re: Winch theft
I don't know any of the people involved, but this is getting out of hand. You who a writing about doing physical injury are commiting assualt. If you actually touch the guy, it's assualt and battery. If you are not involved, let it alone. I have kids who veiw this mail, and it's supposed to be a family site.
Brandon can make a complaint to the proper authorties, if he choses not to, he can only blame himself.
Quit whining!
Don't we have better things to talk about?
Michael (Max) Beckham
Paradise valley Mortgage Professionals
623-330-8987
>From: "Trujillo, Jeff"
>To: "AZVJC (E-mail)"
>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Winch theft
>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:36:02 -0700
>
>We still like you flexy :o) ....everyone has a right to their own
>opinion..whether right or wrong. The way I see it, if I was the one to sell
>the wench and it didn't work after you got it home I would work with you.
>Not just say....to bad. Yea, we haven't heard Ray's side of the story (why
>not), so let him tell his story. Why is he not willing to help out? Because
>he has car payments? Because he has to pay his PO? That still leaves a bad
>taste in my mouth.
>
>
>Jeffrey A. Trujillo
>Field Service Representative
>MD Helicopters, Inc.
>jeff.trujillo@mdhelicopters.com
>Voice:(480)346-6249
>Fax:(480)346-6813
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe [mailto:flexyxj98@msn.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:41 PM
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Winch theft
>
>
>So whats you story???? Lets hear it....I hope this does not make the
>group hate me or ruin my credibility with the group, I just believe
>there is ANOTHER side of the story here....If I knew anyone on this
>list personaly was getting hammered like this, I would do the same
>for you also...if the circumstances were the same
>
>
> Flexy
>
>
>
>
>--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Eric "
> wrote:
> > I had a run in with one of the Brattons (dad) as well. All I can
>say
> > is I personally will never do business with him. I do not know
>about
> > the son. It is pretty sad that this had to happen. I hope the
>people
> > involved to the right thing and make this right for Brandon
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BradP Kilgore"
> > wrote:
> > > FYI....
> > >
> > > This is the person that sold the winch BigDent10@H..., I think
> > > the other bratton5337@m... is his dad. Brandon talked to the dad
>as
> > > well, and he could not/would not help with the situation.
> > >
> > > Ray Bratton Jr. Spouse/BF/GF/SO: none not needed
> > > Location: Glendale Trail Preference: 4-5
> > > Children/Pets: My Jeep is all I need
> > > Phone: 623-934-0618 EMail: BigDent10@H...
> > > Address: 4831 w Brown St Glendale AZ 85302
> > > Website: Occupation: slasemen
> > >
> > > Ray Bratton Spouse/BF/GF/SO:
> > > Location: Glendale Az Trail Preference: 4.0
> > > Children/Pets:
> > > Phone: 602-579-7345 EMail: bratton5337@m...
> > > Address: Glendale, Az
> > > Website: Occupation: Precision Tool Grinder
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Trujillo, Jeff [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:15 AM
> > > To: 'bratton5337@m...'
> > > Cc: AZVJC (E-mail)
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Winch theft
> > >
> > > Ray, I know that you have been reading all these posts and feel
> > guilty
> > > inside even if you don't admit it. The right thing to do is cough
> > up the
> > > money. NOT pay for half of the repair he suggested. You sold an
>item
> > > under
> > > false pretences. That is illegal and your PO should know this. I
>am
> > sure
> > > you
> > > will get quite a bit of harassment for this but who cares. If I
>had
> > > bought
> > > that from you and it didn't work as you stated it did, believe
>me, I
> > > would
> > > get my moneys worth one way or another. Do the right thing and
>give
> > the
> > > money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
>--
> > ----
> > > ----
> > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
> > entity to
> > >
> > > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
> > privileged
> > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
> > of, or
> > >
> > > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
>persons
> > or
> > > entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
> > > MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in
>error,
> > > please
> > > contact the sender by email and delete the material from any
> > computer..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
>which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
>material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
>taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
>entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
>MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
>contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
76926 From: Michael Beckham <jeepnut7261@h...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 0:56pm
Subject: Re: Re: Winch theft
OUCH! dang g-string.........( you meant to the wife didn't you? I HAVE TO RUN FOR MY LIFE NOW!!!)
But it was all in good fun Honey! Really!
Michael (Max) Beckham
Paradise valley Mortgage Professionals
623-330-8987
>From: vernellem@cs.com
>To: flexyxj98@msn.com, az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Winch theft
>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:03:10 EST
>
>Hmnn....You've got a point there. Maybe I should add a 3rd choice to the
>vote.
>A. Give Ray a wedgie at the next get together.
>B. Get a Rope!
>C. Everyone reach back and give themselves a wedgie. (This would be on the
>Honor System, of course!)
>Vernelle
>
>
>
> andIn a message dated 1/29/2003 12:41:23 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
>flexyxj98@msn.com writes:
> > OK, Enough is enough.... I have tried too long to stay out of
> > this...If I offend anyone than so be it....I have tried the step back
> > and let it play out thing that everyone suggests....TOO LATE...FIRST
> > OFF...Let me say that I have known Ray and his dad for quite some
> > time, so I do have the knowledge to talk about this..All of you
> > people who have no damn Idea about Ray or Brandon that are jumping on
> > the bandwagon...GET OFF!!! Damn it this pisses me off...First off,
> > why would you buy a winch if it didnt work?? I KNOW THE WINCH
> > WORKED. I helped him spool it out and wind it right before it came
> > off his jeep. I saw it with my own eyes. Second, why would you not do
> > some testing on the winch yourself,(or use this board and ask how to
> > test it, god knows there have been STUPIDER questions asked before)
> > Other than just running a winch to 4 wheelers to get it
> > fixed...besides you paid how much for the winch?? 600.00?? and then
> > it cost what 200 to fix it??? oh my sad pity that to got a 950.00
> > winch for 800 dollars....thats why I try NEVer to post anything for
> > sale on here because everyone wants something for free...like the d44
> > locker I was trying to sell That one club member offered me 100
> > dollars for and actually told me I was a theif for asking that much
> > $$$ for a Used Power trax..hmm a 400 dollar locker for 300
> > dollars...oh wait It did have almost 8000 miles on it ....guess it
> > was 3/4 worn...All I am saying to you certain people who have NO idea
> > what the hell is going on to stay the hell out of it. Yes I have
> > spoken with Ray, he does feel bad about it, but like him, I think you
> > should be more educated about what you buy either new or used...If
> > you people feel the need to flame me than go ahead, because I am sure
> > the ones who flame will be the same **** stirrers that want to hang
> > him...oh yeah BTW BRAD KILGORE, lets talk about taking responsibility
> > for what you do....how bout that tire carrier, that was ORF's
> > fault....wanna talk about that on list????
> >
> >
> > FLEXYXJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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76927 From: Dan Dennis <dannpegg@c...> <dannpegg@c...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 1:42pm
Subject: '97 TJ Suspension Questions...
I put a Pro Comp 2" suspension lift on my TJ and as an old Jeeper
told me, "You won't be happy with it..." Guess what, I'm not happy
with it. It was just a kit with 4 coils and four shocks. Here's the
question...Is it safe/smart to put coil spacers on it? I don't do the
crazy (relative term) rock crawling stuff(just a beginner), just want
some more clearance for bigger tires. OK, two questions...It's only
got the 2.5L and it's my daily driver as well as my Funmobile. I
notice on the highway with the 31" tires that are on it that it has
no B@LLS. What do I need to do gearing-wise to regain this but not
destroy the off-road capabilities? I want to put some type of lockers
in because I'm tired of spinnig 2 tires while climbing. Any
help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If I'm a dumbass for
thinking about this in the first place, you can tell me that as well.
Thanks...
AZ Treadhead
'97 TJ (BRUZR) in LHC
76928 From: TODD MCCULLEN <desertfab@m...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 1:44pm
Subject: Re: Re: 3/4 elip. suspension
The main reason to four link is it eliminates axle wrap & it will keep the axle from being push under the rig in a droop situation and backing up over a ledge.
A 3/4 elip will flex as well as a coil set up with out the head aches of proper coil spring rates.
The advantage of coil or 1/4 elip. is you can move the axle back as far as you want, where leaf spring you are limited.
Todd
www.desertfab.com
----- Original Message -----
From: DesertJeep
To: 'Roger Tomas' ; 'TODD MCCULLEN'
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:40 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: 3/4 elip. suspension
Why would you add a 3 or 4 link to a 3/4? Wouldn't that be needed for a 1/4 elliptical? Or do I have them backwards?
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Tomas [mailto:tomasr@agcs.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:03 AM
To: TODD MCCULLEN
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: 3/4 elip. suspension
Todd,
I'm guessing "set up proper" means adding 3 or 4 link to
control the axle movement. Is that correct? If so, I'd
think that if you're gonna go to the trouble of adding links,
then you might as well switch to coils. Do you agree?
(Personally, I think one of the selling points of leaf springs
is their simplicity and adding links takes away the simplicity.
But I've never run anything but basic leaf springs.)
-Roger
TODD MCCULLEN wrote:
If a 3/4 elip. suspension is set up proper, it works great! Toddwww.desertfab.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
76929 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 1:54pm
Subject: Re: '97 TJ Suspension Questions...
How much bigger do you want to go with the tires ??
What are you unhappy about, regarding the lift ??
Regarding gearing, probably 4.88's (which is as deep as you can go with your
current axle setu), but it's going to depend what you want to do, tire wise.
Let's start there and see where this goes.
Cheers,
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: <dannpegg@c...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 2:42 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] '97 TJ Suspension Questions...
> I put a Pro Comp 2" suspension lift on my TJ and as an old Jeeper
> told me, "You won't be happy with it..." Guess what, I'm not happy
> with it. It was just a kit with 4 coils and four shocks. Here's the
> question...Is it safe/smart to put coil spacers on it? I don't do the
> crazy (relative term) rock crawling stuff(just a beginner), just want
> some more clearance for bigger tires. OK, two questions...It's only
> got the 2.5L and it's my daily driver as well as my Funmobile. I
> notice on the highway with the 31" tires that are on it that it has
> no B@LLS. What do I need to do gearing-wise to regain this but not
> destroy the off-road capabilities? I want to put some type of lockers
> in because I'm tired of spinnig 2 tires while climbing. Any
> help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If I'm a dumbass for
> thinking about this in the first place, you can tell me that as well.
>
> Thanks...
> AZ Treadhead
> '97 TJ (BRUZR) in LHC
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>