blooddrive
01-07-2004, 10:01 PM
76880-76904
76880 From: Chris <my1stjeep@e...> <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 8:29am
Subject: Re: Hikers May Disturb Nesting Owls
<snip>
The threatened Mexican spotted owl lives in coniferous forests in
the southwest U.S. and Mexico. In Utah, the birds nest, roost and
hunt almost always in steep, narrow canyons. Hiking and other
recreational activities along the canyon bottoms are highest from
March to October, which overlaps with the owls' breeding season.
</snip>
If this is true, why is it necessary to close wide open lands with
low walled washes, that have no forest in sight that would be good
for motorized use?
Chris
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, John Stewart <landuse@u...> wrote:
> The governing board of the Society for Conservation Biology
> (http://www.conbio.org/), publishers of the journal 'Conservation
> Biology", contains many names and organizations affiliated with
the
> Wildlands Project.
>
> If anyone harbors doubts about the Wildlands Project's impact on
> motorized recreation and its intent for all recreation activities,
> pay close attention to this article.
>
> Hikers, once the "no-impact form of recreation", are being
targeted
> as a disturbance factor of endangered/threatened species.
>
> Also note that Swarthout and Steidl's work is being used to help
> establish recreational guidelines around Mexican spotted owl
> territories on federal lands in Arizona, New Mexico and Utah.
>
> *******************************************
>
> Hikers May Disturb Nesting Owls
> TUCSON, Arizona, January 28, 2003 (ENS) - Low impact outdoor
> activities, like hiking, can still have impacts, including scaring
> nesting owls off their nests, a new study shows.
>
> The study suggests that hikers visiting some of the canyons where
> Mexican spotted owls breed can disrupt the owls' behavior in ways
> that might harm their young.
>
> "We suggest that restrictions on hiking intensity should be
> considered for canyons with high levels of human activity," write
the
> authors. Elliott Swarthout, who did this work while at the
University
> of Arizona in Tucson and is now at the Cornell Laboratory of
> Ornithology in Ithaca, New York, and Robert Steidl of the
University
> of Arizona, report their findings in the February issue of the
> journal "Conservation Biology."
>
> The threatened Mexican spotted owl lives in coniferous forests in
the
> southwest U.S. and Mexico. In Utah, the birds nest, roost and hunt
> almost always in steep, narrow canyons. Hiking and other
recreational
> activities along the canyon bottoms are highest from March to
> October, which overlaps with the owls' breeding season.
>
> To see if hiking affects the owls, Swarthout and Steidl studied 10
> nests during the breeding season in Utah's Canyonlands and Capitol
> Reef National Parks, which had between 400,000 and 650,000
visitors
> per year during the two-year study period.
>
> The nests were 36 to 223 feet above the canyon bottoms, and the
> researchers observed the owls during a series of
experimental "hiking
> treatments," in which a hiker passed under a given nest every 15
> minutes for four hours during three time periods: early morning,
> mid-day and evening.
>
> Swarthout and Steidl found that hiking affected the female owls
the
> most. The disturbed females spent almost 60 percent less time on
prey
> handling activities such as feeding their young, and a third less
> time on daytime maintenance activities such as tending the nest,
and
> preening themselves and their young. Preening is important to
birds'
> health in part because it reduces parasites.
>
> Because female Mexican spotted owls provide almost all of the
> parental care, these behavioral changes could harm their young.
Fewer
> than a third of the young survive in the best of circumstances,
and
> getting less food and other kinds of care could make them even
more
> vulnerable.
>
> The experimental hiking level in this study is higher than the
actual
> hiking levels in most of southern Utah's canyons. However, several
of
> the canyons where the owls live have more than 50 visitors per
day,
> which is close to the experimental hiking level.
>
> In such areas, the researchers recommend protecting owl habitat
> during the late March to early June nesting season by limiting
hiking
> or establishing buffers around nest sites. The researchers had
> previously found that 95 percent of owls were not flushed when
hikers
> stayed about 80 feet away.
>
> However, many canyons are so narrow that buffers of this size
would
> preclude hiking in them.
>
> Swarthout and Steidl's work is being used to help establish
> recreational guidelines around Mexican spotted owl territories on
> federal lands in Arizona, New Mexico and Utah.
> --
> John Stewart
> Director, Environmental Affairs, UFWDA, http://www.ufwda.org
> Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
> Webmaster, Tierra del Sol 4x4: http://www.tds4x4.com
> Webmaster, Jeep-L: http://www.jeep-l.net
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
76881 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 8:40am
Subject: [FS] (4) 35x12.50x16.5 Tires
Price: Make offer
Contact: Scott Thomas
I have these (4) General 35x12.5x16.5 MT's that I need to get rid of. They have about 3,000-4,000 miles on them total. In great condition. Willing to take almost any offer. I will be out of town after this Friday the 31st till the 9th of February. Please let me know if you are interested.
Thanks,
Scott Thomas
602.684.8639
Scott Thomas
76882 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 8:44am
Subject: [FS] D35 Axle Shafts
Price: Make Offer
Contact: Scott Thomas
I have these (4) spare D35 axle shafts from when I had my Tj. Looking to get rid of them. Make offer. Willing to take about anything. (2) of them are long side stock. (1) is long side Moser (brand new). (1) short side stock. I will be out of town from the 1st to the 9th of February.
Thanks,
Scott Thomas
602.684.8639
Scott Thomas
76883 From: a_waxx5 <a_waxx5@y...> <a_waxx5@y...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 9:01am
Subject: Re: Aaron bought a flat fender!
Ah... The debate if one should to modify a flat fender…
It's your Jeep, do what you want.
If it is an exquisite example, you may be able to make a few pennies
re-selling it on e-bay to a restorer, and pick your self up a nice
CJ7 beater
But if you do decide to modify it, you are doing nothing different
than what street rodders do, keeping a classic on the road. Seeing a
capable flat fender on the trail is a cool and increasingly rare
thing.
I heavily modified my '46, the only thing left '46 is the tub and
frame, but that being said, mine was categorically un-restorable. But
I still get comments on why I "hacked up" a classic jeep, I just
shrug it off and know that I'm keeping one more '46 on the road. I'm
very happy with it, and like the history that comes with owning a 60
year old Jeep.
As far as suspension and drive train upgrades, the frame width of a
CJ2A is the same as the later CJ's, so Dana 30's and 44's and AMC
20's bolt right. Steering may need to be changed, but that part of
the fun.
Any spring you choose will be a nice upgrade; I'm using CJ springs up
front and XJ springs out back.
The YJ springs are a bit longer and tend to move the front axle back
and shorten the wheelbase, there just isn't enough frame out front.
It can be done as long as you re-drill the center pin hole in the
main leaf. Other than that, it's just a matter of welding spring and
shackle hangers to the frame and your good to go.
Enjoy your classic.
Matt Bolton
1946 CJ2a
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Halverson" <byrnec@q...> wrote:
> Don't change it!!
> A 47 in mint condition is something to be restored, not modified.
> These older Willys are getting harder and harder to find, it would
be a
> shame to waste one when a cj5 or 7 can be gotten for the same
money, they
> are a lot more common, and a lot easier to modify. Parts are more
readily
> available ( both aftermarket and stock).
>
> John Halverson
> '99TJ
> '51CJ3A
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ridetimeless158@a...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:47 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Aaron bought a flat fender!
>
>
> > Hey all, first off I wanted to let everyone know that you are he
best
> > group of people it's ever been my pleasure to meet, to explain the
> > fact that I dropped off the face ofthe earth.... I moved back
home to
> > WA state to become a part of our family tradition (Des Moines
P.D.).
> > However lo and behold I came across a SMOKING deal for a 47 CJ2A
in
> > mint condition 1500!!!!! i'm curious if anyone has any experience
> > with the suspension on this old of a jeep.. I know I want to get
rid
> > of the small leaf packs and go to either YJ springs or ZJ coils
> > either way I NEED HELP!!! If anyone has any info I would greatly
> > appreciate it.
> > Aaron
> > '89 XJ
> > '47 CJ2A
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
76884 From: BradP Kilgore <brad.kilgore@p...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 9:04am
Subject: RE: Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
Its already bad&.
In the past, criminals have successfully sued home owners after they broke into a house, because they were injured (home owner shot them, they fell down or something else). That is the epitome of stupid, when the crook can sue you after breaking into your house! And dont forget successfully suing McDonalds for spilling hot coffee in your own lap, because it was too hot.
-----Original Message-----
From: The Acuna Family [mailto:mkacuna@cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 7:05 PM
To: Brad Kilgore; mikdiamon@yahoo.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; Wade Ungaro
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
The world is comeing to an end for sure.........The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that people injured in boating accidents can sue engine manufacturers for damages in state courts. What's next......sueing automakers when someone in their vehicle kills someone in a drunk driving accident?
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Wade Ungaro
To: BradP Kilgore ; mikdiamon@yahoo.com ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:02 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
I heard that there's some new "stupid" lawsuit where a guy is suing eBay for slander because people posted negative comments about his selling habits. What is this world coming to!!
Have a good day all!
~Wade
BradP Kilgore <brad.kilgore@pulte.com> wrote:
"Is this the way business is normally done on AZVJC?"
This statement was sarcasim and meant to get people's attention, and promote discussion, which I think has been acomplished.
Brandon has been around long enough to know what this group is all about, that is what makes this truly unfortunate. This is why Brandon chose to trust this fellow member with his hard earned cash, to purchase what he thought was a good deal on a nearly new winch. We continually post and read about our good experiences with one another, it is easy to forget that all people are not necessarly honest and not always good people. There are those who will and do take advantage of every oportunity. It is really a shame to believe that there are those type of people in within this group, but this seems to be the case.
Several phone calls were placed to the seller in this case, Ray Bratton, all were answered with a thumb of the nose and a too bad so sad attitude. Brandon even offered to pay half of the repairs of the winch, wow, this is more then he should have had to do!!! The seller offered a nearly new product, (Used Once!), any reasonable person would expect a working item. If I for one were to buy a product under these circumstances, I would expect my money back in no uncertain terms.
Should the buyer beware, absolutely! Should you be more trusting of people within our group, I would like the answer to be absolutely! We obviously do not know every member so we must do what we can to watch out for each other. Now that we know this type of person is out there, we must remember and encourage our fellow members to be careful when buying and be honest when selling. I don't know if any other members know Ray Bratton, but if they do, I would hope they would pick up the phone and encourage him to do the right thing. For those of us who do not know him, we do now....unfortunately!
Maybe we need to have a list like E-Bay, with good and bad experiences for buying and selling. I'm just thinking out loud, I realize there are problems with this idea. This hurts us all and I for one will not forget this in the future.
JMHO
Brad
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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76885 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 9:03am
Subject: Re: 3/4 elip. suspension
Todd,
I'm guessing "set up proper" means adding 3 or 4 link to
control the axle movement. Is that correct? If so, I'd
think that if you're gonna go to the trouble of adding links,
then you might as well switch to coils. Do you agree?
(Personally, I think one of the selling points of leaf springs
is their simplicity and adding links takes away the simplicity.
But I've never run anything but basic leaf springs.)
-Roger
TODD MCCULLEN wrote:
If a 3/4 elip. suspension is set up proper, it works great! Toddwww.desertfab.com
76886 From: Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 9:20am
Subject: OT: Job post
Hi everyone,
I am looking to hire another Field Network Tech in the next month or so. The
job will require supporting existing network clients as well as installing
new systems. This is a very challenging position and requires alot of self
management and decision making. Our office is located near the 202 and
McKellips; however, you will be out at client locations most of the time.
The requirements are:
MCSE NT4 or W2000 with at least W2000 Server of the W2000 certification.
Four years experience in the field: installing, configuring and maintaining
Microsoft networks and various services. A strong understanding of IP and
router knowledge will stand out. Must be a people-type of techy, this is
required in our business.
Must be able to travel within Arizona and some travel out of state. Very
reliable transportation is required.
We provide a very good health plan after 90 days of employment, generous
mileage allowances and cell phone allowance. The position is hourly and is a
minimum of 32 hours a week.
Please email resumes to me in MS Word format and put the word "resume" in
the subject line of the email.
Thanks
Ross Skinner
76887 From: Craig Micek <micekc@e...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 9:36am
Subject: Re: Re: Hikers May Disturb Nesting Owls
> If this is true, why is it necessary to close wide open lands with
> low walled washes, that have no forest in sight that would be good
> for motorized use?
>
> Chris
You are confusing our little feathered friends. The reason for closing
large tracts of desert land is because the greenies think the ferruginous
pygmy-owl may want to live there someday. The birds made up thier mind
thousands of years ago and didn't move in, but we need to give them a
little more time. ;-)
Craig
76888 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 9:40am
Subject: RE: Re: 3/4 elip. suspension
Why would you add a 3 or 4 link to a 3/4? Wouldn't that be needed for a 1/4 elliptical? Or do I have them backwards?
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Tomas [mailto:tomasr@agcs.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:03 AM
To: TODD MCCULLEN
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: 3/4 elip. suspension
Todd,
I'm guessing "set up proper" means adding 3 or 4 link to
control the axle movement. Is that correct? If so, I'd
think that if you're gonna go to the trouble of adding links,
then you might as well switch to coils. Do you agree?
(Personally, I think one of the selling points of leaf springs
is their simplicity and adding links takes away the simplicity.
But I've never run anything but basic leaf springs.)
-Roger
TODD MCCULLEN wrote:
If a 3/4 elip. suspension is set up proper, it works great! Toddwww.desertfab.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
76889 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 9:41am
Subject: Re: Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
Sometimes it's not all bad.
A few years ago, a friend of mine, Pete, here in Tucson, who owns an automotive repair shop and has a watch dog on duty at night, was sued.
A thief broke into the shop one night and the dog badly mangled his arm (can't remember which one), to the point that it's now pretty much useless. He sued. Pete insurance company just wanted to pay the suit. Pete said nope, and hired his own lawyer and went to court. Pete won. Petes insurance company then paid all the expenses that Peter occurred in defense of the law suit.
May times these lawsuits are "won", simply because the insurance company doesn't want the hassle of going through with it.
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: BradP Kilgore
To: The Acuna Family ; mikdiamon@yahoo.com ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com ; Wade Ungaro
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
It’s already bad….
In the past, criminals have successfully sued home owners after they broke into a house, because they were injured (home owner shot them, they fell down or something else). That is the epitome of stupid, when the crook can sue you after breaking into your house! And don’t forget successfully suing McDonalds for spilling hot coffee in your own lap, because it was too hot.
-----Original Message-----
From: The Acuna Family [mailto:mkacuna@cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 7:05 PM
To: Brad Kilgore; mikdiamon@yahoo.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; Wade Ungaro
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
The world is comeing to an end for sure.........The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that people injured in boating accidents can sue engine manufacturers for damages in state courts. What's next......sueing automakers when someone in their vehicle kills someone in a drunk driving accident?
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Wade Ungaro
To: BradP Kilgore ; mikdiamon@yahoo.com ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:02 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
I heard that there's some new "stupid" lawsuit where a guy is suing eBay for slander because people posted negative comments about his selling habits. What is this world coming to!!
Have a good day all!
~Wade
BradP Kilgore <brad.kilgore@pulte.com> wrote:
"Is this the way business is normally done on AZVJC?"
This statement was sarcasim and meant to get people's attention, and promote discussion, which I think has been acomplished.
Brandon has been around long enough to know what this group is all about, that is what makes this truly unfortunate. This is why Brandon chose to trust this fellow member with his hard earned cash, to purchase what he thought was a good deal on a nearly new winch. We continually post and read about our good experiences with one another, it is easy to forget that all people are not necessarly honest and not always good people. There are those who will and do take advantage of every oportunity. It is really a shame to believe that there are those type of people in within this group, but this seems to be the case.
Several phone calls were placed to the seller in this case, Ray Bratton, all were answered with a thumb of the nose and a too bad so sad attitude. Brandon even offered to pay half of the repairs of the winch, wow, this is more then he should have had to do!!! The seller offered a nearly new product, (Used Once!), any reasonable person would expect a working item. If I for one were to buy a product under these circumstances, I would expect my money back in no uncertain terms.
Should the buyer beware, absolutely! Should you be more trusting of people within our group, I would like the answer to be absolutely! We obviously do not know every member so we must do what we can to watch out for each other. Now that we know this type of person is out there, we must remember and encourage our fellow members to be careful when buying and be honest when selling. I don't know if any other members know Ray Bratton, but if they do, I would hope they would pick up the phone and encourage him to do the right thing. For those of us who do not know him, we do now....unfortunately!
Maybe we need to have a list like E-Bay, with good and bad experiences for buying and selling. I'm just thinking out loud, I realize there are problems with this idea. This hurts us all and I for one will not forget this in the future.
JMHO
Brad
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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76890 From: Craig Micek <micekc@e...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 9:44am
Subject: Re: Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
I think we should do a mass emailing to Ray and let him know what we think of that kind behavior. Post his addy. I'll write him one. Can one of you computer geeks write some kind of script to fill his mailbox up?
Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: BradP Kilgore
To: The Acuna Family ; mikdiamon@yahoo.com ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com ; Wade Ungaro
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
Its already bad&.
In the past, criminals have successfully sued home owners after they broke into a house, because they were injured (home owner shot them, they fell down or something else). That is the epitome of stupid, when the crook can sue you after breaking into your house! And dont forget successfully suing McDonalds for spilling hot coffee in your own lap, because it was too hot.
-----Original Message-----
From: The Acuna Family [mailto:mkacuna@cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 7:05 PM
To: Brad Kilgore; mikdiamon@yahoo.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; Wade Ungaro
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
The world is comeing to an end for sure.........The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that people injured in boating accidents can sue engine manufacturers for damages in state courts. What's next......sueing automakers when someone in their vehicle kills someone in a drunk driving accident?
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Wade Ungaro
To: BradP Kilgore ; mikdiamon@yahoo.com ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:02 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
I heard that there's some new "stupid" lawsuit where a guy is suing eBay for slander because people posted negative comments about his selling habits. What is this world coming to!!
Have a good day all!
~Wade
BradP Kilgore <brad.kilgore@pulte.com> wrote:
"Is this the way business is normally done on AZVJC?"
This statement was sarcasim and meant to get people's attention, and promote discussion, which I think has been acomplished.
Brandon has been around long enough to know what this group is all about, that is what makes this truly unfortunate. This is why Brandon chose to trust this fellow member with his hard earned cash, to purchase what he thought was a good deal on a nearly new winch. We continually post and read about our good experiences with one another, it is easy to forget that all people are not necessarly honest and not always good people. There are those who will and do take advantage of every oportunity. It is really a shame to believe that there are those type of people in within this group, but this seems to be the case.
Several phone calls were placed to the seller in this case, Ray Bratton, all were answered with a thumb of the nose and a too bad so sad attitude. Brandon even offered to pay half of the repairs of the winch, wow, this is more then he should have had to do!!! The seller offered a nearly new product, (Used Once!), any reasonable person would expect a working item. If I for one were to buy a product under these circumstances, I would expect my money back in no uncertain terms.
Should the buyer beware, absolutely! Should you be more trusting of people within our group, I would like the answer to be absolutely! We obviously do not know every member so we must do what we can to watch out for each other. Now that we know this type of person is out there, we must remember and encourage our fellow members to be careful when buying and be honest when selling. I don't know if any other members know Ray Bratton, but if they do, I would hope they would pick up the phone and encourage him to do the right thing. For those of us who do not know him, we do now....unfortunately!
Maybe we need to have a list like E-Bay, with good and bad experiences for buying and selling. I'm just thinking out loud, I realize there are problems with this idea. This hurts us all and I for one will not forget this in the future.
JMHO
Brad
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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76891 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 9:35am
Subject: RE: Re: Hikers May Disturb Nesting Owls
FYI.....
In the early 1900's the Ferruginous Pygmy Owl DID live in Arizona. They
were found along the river corridor as far north as Show Low on the
central/east corridor of the state. Not HUGE numbers but definitely
considered "residents" of Arizona. No one knows for sure why they started
migrating south............ of course agencies blame motorized vehicles and
urban growth as destroying their habitat...... today they live in the
thousands south of the border in Mexico. Have I heard Mexico has not "urban
growth or motorized vehicles"?????????? Interestingly we are now dedicating
THOUSANDS of acres of "Potential Habitat" to house these critters IF/WHEN
they return but they don't seem to like it north of the border. IF they do
return I'm doubting very much they want "isolated habitat"............ that
little critter can house in the saguaro in my back yard just as well as the
hawk does each year.
What the USFW have yet to accept is these little critters are NOT ENDANGERED
just because they decided to "relocate". There are thousands of these birds
in the wild.......... putting them on an "endangered" list because they are
not living where USFW WANT them to is ludicrous!!! My $.02 Sandee
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Craig Micek [mailto:micekc@e...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:37 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; my1stjeep@e...
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Hikers May Disturb Nesting Owls
>
>
> > If this is true, why is it necessary to close wide open lands with
> > low walled washes, that have no forest in sight that would be good
> > for motorized use?
> >
> > Chris
>
> You are confusing our little feathered friends. The reason for closing
> large tracts of desert land is because the greenies think the ferruginous
> pygmy-owl may want to live there someday. The birds made up thier mind
> thousands of years ago and didn't move in, but we need to give them a
> little more time. ;-)
>
> Craig
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
76892 From: Ben Krueger <ben@p...> <ben@p...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:07am
Subject: CB Radio
Hello all,
My wife wants to buy me a CB for my birthday. So where is a good
place to get a Cobra 75WXST, firestick and necessary cabling here in
the east valley??
TIA!
-Ben
76893 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:14am
Subject: Re: Re: 3/4 elip. suspension
To prevent rear steer and busted u-joints and bent leafs? I'd think these
would be big enough issues with a 3/4 that you'd want the links to make
the 3/4 work properly. But I don't know for sure - that's why I asked
the question.
-Roger
DesertJeep wrote:
Why would you add a 3 or 4 link to a 3/4? Wouldn't that be needed for a 1/4 elliptical? Or do I have them backwards?Joey K93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Tomas [mailto:tomasr@agcs.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:03 AM
To: TODD MCCULLEN
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: 3/4 elip. suspension
Todd,
I'm guessing "set up proper" means adding 3 or 4 link to
control the axle movement. Is that correct? If so, I'd
think that if you're gonna go to the trouble of adding links,
then you might as well switch to coils. Do you agree?
(Personally, I think one of the selling points of leaf springs
is their simplicity and adding links takes away the simplicity.
But I've never run anything but basic leaf springs.)
-Roger
TODD MCCULLEN wrote:
If a 3/4 elip. suspension is set up proper, it works great! Toddwww.desertfab.com
76894 From: onebdjeep <onebdjeep@c...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:21am
Subject: Re: OT: Job post
Awesome idea Ross! anyone else who knows or has heard of any openings in the
company that they own or work for please post them here to help some jeepers
out!
Thx for starting this Ross!!!
Sean Speer
OneBdJeep (someday!!)
'97 TJ with killer mods to come!!!
(umm... will drink beer for Jeep parts!!!)
Don't squat with yer spurs on!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross Skinner" <rskinner@s...>
To: "AZVJC (E-mail)" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:20 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] OT: Job post
> Hi everyone,
>
> I am looking to hire another Field Network Tech in the next month or so.
The
> job will require supporting existing network clients as well as installing
> new systems. This is a very challenging position and requires alot of self
> management and decision making. Our office is located near the 202 and
> McKellips; however, you will be out at client locations most of the time.
>
> The requirements are:
> MCSE NT4 or W2000 with at least W2000 Server of the W2000 certification.
> Four years experience in the field: installing, configuring and
maintaining
> Microsoft networks and various services. A strong understanding of IP and
> router knowledge will stand out. Must be a people-type of techy, this is
> required in our business.
> Must be able to travel within Arizona and some travel out of state. Very
> reliable transportation is required.
>
> We provide a very good health plan after 90 days of employment, generous
> mileage allowances and cell phone allowance. The position is hourly and is
a
> minimum of 32 hours a week.
>
> Please email resumes to me in MS Word format and put the word "resume" in
> the subject line of the email.
>
> Thanks
> Ross Skinner
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
76895 From: Rob Williams <g_rob_williams@y...> <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:24am
Subject: Re: CB Radio
CB Exchange near Main and Recker in Mesa. -Rob
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Ben Krueger <ben@p...>" <ben@p...>
wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> My wife wants to buy me a CB for my birthday. So where is a good
> place to get a Cobra 75WXST, firestick and necessary cabling here
in
> the east valley??
>
> TIA!
>
> -Ben
76896 From: Craig Micek <micekc@e...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:28am
Subject: Fw: Winch misrepresentaion
I sent this to our buddy Ray.
Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Micek
To: bratton5337@msn.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:23 AM
Subject: Winch misrepresentaion
Ray, you really should step up and do the right thing regarding the winch sale.
Right now there are about 1500 members of the avjc who believe you are a crook. You could turn that around very easily. Even if you don't refund the purchase price, at least split the cost of the repair. Remember what goes around comes around. It may hurt a little to cough up a few bucks now, but you will feel better afterward.
Craig
76897 From: Jeff Cox <coxy8@y...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:29am
Subject: Re: Re: CB Radio
I agree. The guy is very helpful and nice to deal
with.
--- "Rob Williams <g_rob_williams@y...>"
<g_rob_williams@y...> wrote:
> CB Exchange near Main and Recker in Mesa. -Rob
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Ben Krueger
> <ben@p...>" <ben@p...>
> wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > My wife wants to buy me a CB for my birthday. So
> where is a good
> > place to get a Cobra 75WXST, firestick and
> necessary cabling here
> in
> > the east valley??
> >
> > TIA!
> >
> > -Ben
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
=====
~Coxy~
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
76898 From: onebdjeep <onebdjeep@c...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:29am
Subject: Re: Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
computer geek here.... sure we can do that but all he has to do is block the emails coming through. i can spam the hell outta him with as many as his email server can handle but then again... my ISP would kick me out and i would not be able to get back in. now if i setup my own little smtp server and go to town i can hide it as typical internet traffic. unless they put a sniffer on my port. oh well. what do you want to do?
plus there are 2 ray bratton's.one jr and one regular. the jr is @ hotmail.com and the other is at msn.com. either way it may be a false addy and they don't check that email anymore. too many factors can take place here. both have phone nums... but who wants to sit on the phone all the time and call this prick. i can setup a wardialer to peg his phone num all the time and it would be like my modem crank callin his *** but what the hell fun is that.
i say we invite him on a trail run and we all gang up on him and give him a super wedgie!!! and then take a dump on his front seat!!!
how about that for my .02 (dot zero two in computer geek terms!)
Sean Speer
OneBdJeep (someday!!)
'97 TJ with killer mods to come!!!
(umm... will drink beer for Jeep parts!!!)
Don't squat with yer spurs on!
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Micek
To: The Acuna Family ; mikdiamon@yahoo.com ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com ; Wade Ungaro ; BradP Kilgore
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
I think we should do a mass emailing to Ray and let him know what we think of that kind behavior. Post his addy. I'll write him one. Can one of you computer geeks write some kind of script to fill his mailbox up?
Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: BradP Kilgore
To: The Acuna Family ; mikdiamon@yahoo.com ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com ; Wade Ungaro
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
It’s already bad….
In the past, criminals have successfully sued home owners after they broke into a house, because they were injured (home owner shot them, they fell down or something else). That is the epitome of stupid, when the crook can sue you after breaking into your house! And don’t forget successfully suing McDonalds for spilling hot coffee in your own lap, because it was too hot.
-----Original Message-----
From: The Acuna Family [mailto:mkacuna@cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 7:05 PM
To: Brad Kilgore; mikdiamon@yahoo.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; Wade Ungaro
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
The world is comeing to an end for sure.........The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that people injured in boating accidents can sue engine manufacturers for damages in state courts. What's next......sueing automakers when someone in their vehicle kills someone in a drunk driving accident?
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Wade Ungaro
To: BradP Kilgore ; mikdiamon@yahoo.com ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:02 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
I heard that there's some new "stupid" lawsuit where a guy is suing eBay for slander because people posted negative comments about his selling habits. What is this world coming to!!
Have a good day all!
~Wade
BradP Kilgore <brad.kilgore@pulte.com> wrote:
"Is this the way business is normally done on AZVJC?"
This statement was sarcasim and meant to get people's attention, and promote discussion, which I think has been acomplished.
Brandon has been around long enough to know what this group is all about, that is what makes this truly unfortunate. This is why Brandon chose to trust this fellow member with his hard earned cash, to purchase what he thought was a good deal on a nearly new winch. We continually post and read about our good experiences with one another, it is easy to forget that all people are not necessarly honest and not always good people. There are those who will and do take advantage of every oportunity. It is really a shame to believe that there are those type of people in within this group, but this seems to be the case.
Several phone calls were placed to the seller in this case, Ray Bratton, all were answered with a thumb of the nose and a too bad so sad attitude. Brandon even offered to pay half of the repairs of the winch, wow, this is more then he should have had to do!!! The seller offered a nearly new product, (Used Once!), any reasonable person would expect a working item. If I for one were to buy a product under these circumstances, I would expect my money back in no uncertain terms.
Should the buyer beware, absolutely! Should you be more trusting of people within our group, I would like the answer to be absolutely! We obviously do not know every member so we must do what we can to watch out for each other. Now that we know this type of person is out there, we must remember and encourage our fellow members to be careful when buying and be honest when selling. I don't know if any other members know Ray Bratton, but if they do, I would hope they would pick up the phone and encourage him to do the right thing. For those of us who do not know him, we do now....unfortunately!
Maybe we need to have a list like E-Bay, with good and bad experiences for buying and selling. I'm just thinking out loud, I realize there are problems with this idea. This hurts us all and I for one will not forget this in the future.
JMHO
Brad
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
76899 From: onebdjeep <onebdjeep@c...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:31am
Subject: Re: Fw: Winch misrepresentaion
good job craig. simple yet to the point. let us know if he responds.
i still think he needs a super wedgie tho!!
Sean Speer
OneBdJeep (someday!!)
'97 TJ with killer mods to come!!!
(umm... will drink beer for Jeep parts!!!)
Don't squat with yer spurs on!
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Micek
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:28 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Fw: Winch misrepresentaion
I sent this to our buddy Ray.
Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Micek
To: bratton5337@msn.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:23 AM
Subject: Winch misrepresentaion
Ray, you really should step up and do the right thing regarding the winch sale.
Right now there are about 1500 members of the avjc who believe you are a crook. You could turn that around very easily. Even if you don't refund the purchase price, at least split the cost of the repair. Remember what goes around comes around. It may hurt a little to cough up a few bucks now, but you will feel better afterward.
Craig
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
76900 From: Trujillo, Jeff <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:15am
Subject: Winch theft
Ray, I know that you have been reading all these posts and feel guilty
inside even if you don't admit it. The right thing to do is cough up the
money. NOT pay for half of the repair he suggested. You sold an item under
false pretences. That is illegal and your PO should know this. I am sure you
will get quite a bit of harassment for this but who cares. If I had bought
that from you and it didn't work as you stated it did, believe me, I would
get my moneys worth one way or another. Do the right thing and give the
money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
76901 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:41am
Subject: RE: Re: 3/4 elip. suspension
I could understand a traction bar like you would use for SOA, maybe an anti-sway bar for street use and more likely just some limiting straps to keep from snapping the 1/2 spring. A 3 or 4 link setup would work against the 3/4 elliptical setup.
Maybe Todd could elaborate more as I am no expert.
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Tomas [mailto:tomasr@agcs.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:15 AM
To: joey@DesertJeep.com
Cc: 'TODD MCCULLEN'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: 3/4 elip. suspension
To prevent rear steer and busted u-joints and bent leafs? I'd think these
would be big enough issues with a 3/4 that you'd want the links to make
the 3/4 work properly. But I don't know for sure - that's why I asked
the question.
-Roger
DesertJeep wrote:
Why would you add a 3 or 4 link to a 3/4? Wouldn't that be needed for a 1/4 elliptical? Or do I have them backwards?Joey K93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Tomas [mailto:tomasr@agcs.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:03 AM
To: TODD MCCULLEN
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: 3/4 elip. suspension
Todd,
I'm guessing "set up proper" means adding 3 or 4 link to
control the axle movement. Is that correct? If so, I'd
think that if you're gonna go to the trouble of adding links,
then you might as well switch to coils. Do you agree?
(Personally, I think one of the selling points of leaf springs
is their simplicity and adding links takes away the simplicity.
But I've never run anything but basic leaf springs.)
-Roger
TODD MCCULLEN wrote:
If a 3/4 elip. suspension is set up proper, it works great! Toddwww.desertfab.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
76902 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:48am
Subject: [FS] $400 warn 8274 winch
Price: $400
Contact: chris@602-526-2584
winch is a little worn but still in good shape. includes roller, remote, extra solinoids, and is on winch plate for chevy truck
Chris Jean
76903 From: TOYS BY TROY, llc. <TOYSBYTROY@C...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:51am
Subject: Re: Fw: Winch misrepresentaion
We knead a pick of his jeep and a discretion of him. So when we find him on the trail stuck we don't help and we know this will happen because he destroyed the winch right!!!!!!!!!!!
troy
From: Craig Micek
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:28 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Fw: Winch misrepresentaion
I sent this to our buddy Ray.
Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Micek
To: bratton5337@msn.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:23 AM
Subject: Winch misrepresentaion
Ray, you really should step up and do the right thing regarding the winch sale.
Right now there are about 1500 members of the avjc who believe you are a crook. You could turn that around very easily. Even if you don't refund the purchase price, at least split the cost of the repair. Remember what goes around comes around. It may hurt a little to cough up a few bucks now, but you will feel better afterward.
Craig
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
76904 From: BradP Kilgore <brad.kilgore@p...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:06am
Subject: RE: Winch theft
I wonder what the Arizona Probation Department would have to say on this
subject. On of the terms of all probations is to remain a law abiding
citizen....
Selling an obviously well used/non working product, misrepresenting this
product as new/used once and working product, is a crime in Arizona, at
least Theft (Class 6 Felony) or at most Fraud (Class 2 Felony)!
13-1802. Theft; classification
A. A person commits theft if, without lawful authority, the person
knowingly:
3. Obtains services or property (Money could be considered property) of
another by means of any material misrepresentation with intent to
deprive the other person of such property or services.
8. "Material misrepresentation" means a pretense, promise,
representation or statement of present, past or future fact that is
fraudulent and that, when used or communicated, is instrumental in
causing the wrongful control or transfer of property or services. The
pretense may be verbal or it may be a physical act.
OR
13-2310. Fraudulent schemes and artifices; classification; definition
A. Any person who, pursuant to a scheme or artifice to defraud,
knowingly obtains any benefit by means of false or fraudulent pretenses,
representations, promises or material omissions is guilty of a class 2
felony.
E. As used in this section, "scheme or artifice to defraud" includes a
scheme or artifice to deprive a person of the intangible right of honest
services.
-----Original Message-----
From: Trujillo, Jeff [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:15 AM
To: 'bratton5337@m...'
Cc: AZVJC (E-mail)
Subject: [az_vjc] Winch theft
Ray, I know that you have been reading all these posts and feel guilty
inside even if you don't admit it. The right thing to do is cough up the
money. NOT pay for half of the repair he suggested. You sold an item
under
false pretences. That is illegal and your PO should know this. I am sure
you
will get quite a bit of harassment for this but who cares. If I had
bought
that from you and it didn't work as you stated it did, believe me, I
would
get my moneys worth one way or another. Do the right thing and give the
money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error,
please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76880 From: Chris <my1stjeep@e...> <my1stjeep@e...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 8:29am
Subject: Re: Hikers May Disturb Nesting Owls
<snip>
The threatened Mexican spotted owl lives in coniferous forests in
the southwest U.S. and Mexico. In Utah, the birds nest, roost and
hunt almost always in steep, narrow canyons. Hiking and other
recreational activities along the canyon bottoms are highest from
March to October, which overlaps with the owls' breeding season.
</snip>
If this is true, why is it necessary to close wide open lands with
low walled washes, that have no forest in sight that would be good
for motorized use?
Chris
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, John Stewart <landuse@u...> wrote:
> The governing board of the Society for Conservation Biology
> (http://www.conbio.org/), publishers of the journal 'Conservation
> Biology", contains many names and organizations affiliated with
the
> Wildlands Project.
>
> If anyone harbors doubts about the Wildlands Project's impact on
> motorized recreation and its intent for all recreation activities,
> pay close attention to this article.
>
> Hikers, once the "no-impact form of recreation", are being
targeted
> as a disturbance factor of endangered/threatened species.
>
> Also note that Swarthout and Steidl's work is being used to help
> establish recreational guidelines around Mexican spotted owl
> territories on federal lands in Arizona, New Mexico and Utah.
>
> *******************************************
>
> Hikers May Disturb Nesting Owls
> TUCSON, Arizona, January 28, 2003 (ENS) - Low impact outdoor
> activities, like hiking, can still have impacts, including scaring
> nesting owls off their nests, a new study shows.
>
> The study suggests that hikers visiting some of the canyons where
> Mexican spotted owls breed can disrupt the owls' behavior in ways
> that might harm their young.
>
> "We suggest that restrictions on hiking intensity should be
> considered for canyons with high levels of human activity," write
the
> authors. Elliott Swarthout, who did this work while at the
University
> of Arizona in Tucson and is now at the Cornell Laboratory of
> Ornithology in Ithaca, New York, and Robert Steidl of the
University
> of Arizona, report their findings in the February issue of the
> journal "Conservation Biology."
>
> The threatened Mexican spotted owl lives in coniferous forests in
the
> southwest U.S. and Mexico. In Utah, the birds nest, roost and hunt
> almost always in steep, narrow canyons. Hiking and other
recreational
> activities along the canyon bottoms are highest from March to
> October, which overlaps with the owls' breeding season.
>
> To see if hiking affects the owls, Swarthout and Steidl studied 10
> nests during the breeding season in Utah's Canyonlands and Capitol
> Reef National Parks, which had between 400,000 and 650,000
visitors
> per year during the two-year study period.
>
> The nests were 36 to 223 feet above the canyon bottoms, and the
> researchers observed the owls during a series of
experimental "hiking
> treatments," in which a hiker passed under a given nest every 15
> minutes for four hours during three time periods: early morning,
> mid-day and evening.
>
> Swarthout and Steidl found that hiking affected the female owls
the
> most. The disturbed females spent almost 60 percent less time on
prey
> handling activities such as feeding their young, and a third less
> time on daytime maintenance activities such as tending the nest,
and
> preening themselves and their young. Preening is important to
birds'
> health in part because it reduces parasites.
>
> Because female Mexican spotted owls provide almost all of the
> parental care, these behavioral changes could harm their young.
Fewer
> than a third of the young survive in the best of circumstances,
and
> getting less food and other kinds of care could make them even
more
> vulnerable.
>
> The experimental hiking level in this study is higher than the
actual
> hiking levels in most of southern Utah's canyons. However, several
of
> the canyons where the owls live have more than 50 visitors per
day,
> which is close to the experimental hiking level.
>
> In such areas, the researchers recommend protecting owl habitat
> during the late March to early June nesting season by limiting
hiking
> or establishing buffers around nest sites. The researchers had
> previously found that 95 percent of owls were not flushed when
hikers
> stayed about 80 feet away.
>
> However, many canyons are so narrow that buffers of this size
would
> preclude hiking in them.
>
> Swarthout and Steidl's work is being used to help establish
> recreational guidelines around Mexican spotted owl territories on
> federal lands in Arizona, New Mexico and Utah.
> --
> John Stewart
> Director, Environmental Affairs, UFWDA, http://www.ufwda.org
> Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
> Webmaster, Tierra del Sol 4x4: http://www.tds4x4.com
> Webmaster, Jeep-L: http://www.jeep-l.net
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
76881 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 8:40am
Subject: [FS] (4) 35x12.50x16.5 Tires
Price: Make offer
Contact: Scott Thomas
I have these (4) General 35x12.5x16.5 MT's that I need to get rid of. They have about 3,000-4,000 miles on them total. In great condition. Willing to take almost any offer. I will be out of town after this Friday the 31st till the 9th of February. Please let me know if you are interested.
Thanks,
Scott Thomas
602.684.8639
Scott Thomas
76882 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 8:44am
Subject: [FS] D35 Axle Shafts
Price: Make Offer
Contact: Scott Thomas
I have these (4) spare D35 axle shafts from when I had my Tj. Looking to get rid of them. Make offer. Willing to take about anything. (2) of them are long side stock. (1) is long side Moser (brand new). (1) short side stock. I will be out of town from the 1st to the 9th of February.
Thanks,
Scott Thomas
602.684.8639
Scott Thomas
76883 From: a_waxx5 <a_waxx5@y...> <a_waxx5@y...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 9:01am
Subject: Re: Aaron bought a flat fender!
Ah... The debate if one should to modify a flat fender…
It's your Jeep, do what you want.
If it is an exquisite example, you may be able to make a few pennies
re-selling it on e-bay to a restorer, and pick your self up a nice
CJ7 beater
But if you do decide to modify it, you are doing nothing different
than what street rodders do, keeping a classic on the road. Seeing a
capable flat fender on the trail is a cool and increasingly rare
thing.
I heavily modified my '46, the only thing left '46 is the tub and
frame, but that being said, mine was categorically un-restorable. But
I still get comments on why I "hacked up" a classic jeep, I just
shrug it off and know that I'm keeping one more '46 on the road. I'm
very happy with it, and like the history that comes with owning a 60
year old Jeep.
As far as suspension and drive train upgrades, the frame width of a
CJ2A is the same as the later CJ's, so Dana 30's and 44's and AMC
20's bolt right. Steering may need to be changed, but that part of
the fun.
Any spring you choose will be a nice upgrade; I'm using CJ springs up
front and XJ springs out back.
The YJ springs are a bit longer and tend to move the front axle back
and shorten the wheelbase, there just isn't enough frame out front.
It can be done as long as you re-drill the center pin hole in the
main leaf. Other than that, it's just a matter of welding spring and
shackle hangers to the frame and your good to go.
Enjoy your classic.
Matt Bolton
1946 CJ2a
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Halverson" <byrnec@q...> wrote:
> Don't change it!!
> A 47 in mint condition is something to be restored, not modified.
> These older Willys are getting harder and harder to find, it would
be a
> shame to waste one when a cj5 or 7 can be gotten for the same
money, they
> are a lot more common, and a lot easier to modify. Parts are more
readily
> available ( both aftermarket and stock).
>
> John Halverson
> '99TJ
> '51CJ3A
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ridetimeless158@a...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:47 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Aaron bought a flat fender!
>
>
> > Hey all, first off I wanted to let everyone know that you are he
best
> > group of people it's ever been my pleasure to meet, to explain the
> > fact that I dropped off the face ofthe earth.... I moved back
home to
> > WA state to become a part of our family tradition (Des Moines
P.D.).
> > However lo and behold I came across a SMOKING deal for a 47 CJ2A
in
> > mint condition 1500!!!!! i'm curious if anyone has any experience
> > with the suspension on this old of a jeep.. I know I want to get
rid
> > of the small leaf packs and go to either YJ springs or ZJ coils
> > either way I NEED HELP!!! If anyone has any info I would greatly
> > appreciate it.
> > Aaron
> > '89 XJ
> > '47 CJ2A
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
76884 From: BradP Kilgore <brad.kilgore@p...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 9:04am
Subject: RE: Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
Its already bad&.
In the past, criminals have successfully sued home owners after they broke into a house, because they were injured (home owner shot them, they fell down or something else). That is the epitome of stupid, when the crook can sue you after breaking into your house! And dont forget successfully suing McDonalds for spilling hot coffee in your own lap, because it was too hot.
-----Original Message-----
From: The Acuna Family [mailto:mkacuna@cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 7:05 PM
To: Brad Kilgore; mikdiamon@yahoo.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; Wade Ungaro
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
The world is comeing to an end for sure.........The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that people injured in boating accidents can sue engine manufacturers for damages in state courts. What's next......sueing automakers when someone in their vehicle kills someone in a drunk driving accident?
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Wade Ungaro
To: BradP Kilgore ; mikdiamon@yahoo.com ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:02 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
I heard that there's some new "stupid" lawsuit where a guy is suing eBay for slander because people posted negative comments about his selling habits. What is this world coming to!!
Have a good day all!
~Wade
BradP Kilgore <brad.kilgore@pulte.com> wrote:
"Is this the way business is normally done on AZVJC?"
This statement was sarcasim and meant to get people's attention, and promote discussion, which I think has been acomplished.
Brandon has been around long enough to know what this group is all about, that is what makes this truly unfortunate. This is why Brandon chose to trust this fellow member with his hard earned cash, to purchase what he thought was a good deal on a nearly new winch. We continually post and read about our good experiences with one another, it is easy to forget that all people are not necessarly honest and not always good people. There are those who will and do take advantage of every oportunity. It is really a shame to believe that there are those type of people in within this group, but this seems to be the case.
Several phone calls were placed to the seller in this case, Ray Bratton, all were answered with a thumb of the nose and a too bad so sad attitude. Brandon even offered to pay half of the repairs of the winch, wow, this is more then he should have had to do!!! The seller offered a nearly new product, (Used Once!), any reasonable person would expect a working item. If I for one were to buy a product under these circumstances, I would expect my money back in no uncertain terms.
Should the buyer beware, absolutely! Should you be more trusting of people within our group, I would like the answer to be absolutely! We obviously do not know every member so we must do what we can to watch out for each other. Now that we know this type of person is out there, we must remember and encourage our fellow members to be careful when buying and be honest when selling. I don't know if any other members know Ray Bratton, but if they do, I would hope they would pick up the phone and encourage him to do the right thing. For those of us who do not know him, we do now....unfortunately!
Maybe we need to have a list like E-Bay, with good and bad experiences for buying and selling. I'm just thinking out loud, I realize there are problems with this idea. This hurts us all and I for one will not forget this in the future.
JMHO
Brad
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
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76885 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 9:03am
Subject: Re: 3/4 elip. suspension
Todd,
I'm guessing "set up proper" means adding 3 or 4 link to
control the axle movement. Is that correct? If so, I'd
think that if you're gonna go to the trouble of adding links,
then you might as well switch to coils. Do you agree?
(Personally, I think one of the selling points of leaf springs
is their simplicity and adding links takes away the simplicity.
But I've never run anything but basic leaf springs.)
-Roger
TODD MCCULLEN wrote:
If a 3/4 elip. suspension is set up proper, it works great! Toddwww.desertfab.com
76886 From: Ross Skinner <rskinner@s...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 9:20am
Subject: OT: Job post
Hi everyone,
I am looking to hire another Field Network Tech in the next month or so. The
job will require supporting existing network clients as well as installing
new systems. This is a very challenging position and requires alot of self
management and decision making. Our office is located near the 202 and
McKellips; however, you will be out at client locations most of the time.
The requirements are:
MCSE NT4 or W2000 with at least W2000 Server of the W2000 certification.
Four years experience in the field: installing, configuring and maintaining
Microsoft networks and various services. A strong understanding of IP and
router knowledge will stand out. Must be a people-type of techy, this is
required in our business.
Must be able to travel within Arizona and some travel out of state. Very
reliable transportation is required.
We provide a very good health plan after 90 days of employment, generous
mileage allowances and cell phone allowance. The position is hourly and is a
minimum of 32 hours a week.
Please email resumes to me in MS Word format and put the word "resume" in
the subject line of the email.
Thanks
Ross Skinner
76887 From: Craig Micek <micekc@e...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 9:36am
Subject: Re: Re: Hikers May Disturb Nesting Owls
> If this is true, why is it necessary to close wide open lands with
> low walled washes, that have no forest in sight that would be good
> for motorized use?
>
> Chris
You are confusing our little feathered friends. The reason for closing
large tracts of desert land is because the greenies think the ferruginous
pygmy-owl may want to live there someday. The birds made up thier mind
thousands of years ago and didn't move in, but we need to give them a
little more time. ;-)
Craig
76888 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 9:40am
Subject: RE: Re: 3/4 elip. suspension
Why would you add a 3 or 4 link to a 3/4? Wouldn't that be needed for a 1/4 elliptical? Or do I have them backwards?
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Tomas [mailto:tomasr@agcs.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:03 AM
To: TODD MCCULLEN
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: 3/4 elip. suspension
Todd,
I'm guessing "set up proper" means adding 3 or 4 link to
control the axle movement. Is that correct? If so, I'd
think that if you're gonna go to the trouble of adding links,
then you might as well switch to coils. Do you agree?
(Personally, I think one of the selling points of leaf springs
is their simplicity and adding links takes away the simplicity.
But I've never run anything but basic leaf springs.)
-Roger
TODD MCCULLEN wrote:
If a 3/4 elip. suspension is set up proper, it works great! Toddwww.desertfab.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
76889 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 9:41am
Subject: Re: Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
Sometimes it's not all bad.
A few years ago, a friend of mine, Pete, here in Tucson, who owns an automotive repair shop and has a watch dog on duty at night, was sued.
A thief broke into the shop one night and the dog badly mangled his arm (can't remember which one), to the point that it's now pretty much useless. He sued. Pete insurance company just wanted to pay the suit. Pete said nope, and hired his own lawyer and went to court. Pete won. Petes insurance company then paid all the expenses that Peter occurred in defense of the law suit.
May times these lawsuits are "won", simply because the insurance company doesn't want the hassle of going through with it.
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: BradP Kilgore
To: The Acuna Family ; mikdiamon@yahoo.com ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com ; Wade Ungaro
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
It’s already bad….
In the past, criminals have successfully sued home owners after they broke into a house, because they were injured (home owner shot them, they fell down or something else). That is the epitome of stupid, when the crook can sue you after breaking into your house! And don’t forget successfully suing McDonalds for spilling hot coffee in your own lap, because it was too hot.
-----Original Message-----
From: The Acuna Family [mailto:mkacuna@cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 7:05 PM
To: Brad Kilgore; mikdiamon@yahoo.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; Wade Ungaro
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
The world is comeing to an end for sure.........The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that people injured in boating accidents can sue engine manufacturers for damages in state courts. What's next......sueing automakers when someone in their vehicle kills someone in a drunk driving accident?
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Wade Ungaro
To: BradP Kilgore ; mikdiamon@yahoo.com ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:02 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
I heard that there's some new "stupid" lawsuit where a guy is suing eBay for slander because people posted negative comments about his selling habits. What is this world coming to!!
Have a good day all!
~Wade
BradP Kilgore <brad.kilgore@pulte.com> wrote:
"Is this the way business is normally done on AZVJC?"
This statement was sarcasim and meant to get people's attention, and promote discussion, which I think has been acomplished.
Brandon has been around long enough to know what this group is all about, that is what makes this truly unfortunate. This is why Brandon chose to trust this fellow member with his hard earned cash, to purchase what he thought was a good deal on a nearly new winch. We continually post and read about our good experiences with one another, it is easy to forget that all people are not necessarly honest and not always good people. There are those who will and do take advantage of every oportunity. It is really a shame to believe that there are those type of people in within this group, but this seems to be the case.
Several phone calls were placed to the seller in this case, Ray Bratton, all were answered with a thumb of the nose and a too bad so sad attitude. Brandon even offered to pay half of the repairs of the winch, wow, this is more then he should have had to do!!! The seller offered a nearly new product, (Used Once!), any reasonable person would expect a working item. If I for one were to buy a product under these circumstances, I would expect my money back in no uncertain terms.
Should the buyer beware, absolutely! Should you be more trusting of people within our group, I would like the answer to be absolutely! We obviously do not know every member so we must do what we can to watch out for each other. Now that we know this type of person is out there, we must remember and encourage our fellow members to be careful when buying and be honest when selling. I don't know if any other members know Ray Bratton, but if they do, I would hope they would pick up the phone and encourage him to do the right thing. For those of us who do not know him, we do now....unfortunately!
Maybe we need to have a list like E-Bay, with good and bad experiences for buying and selling. I'm just thinking out loud, I realize there are problems with this idea. This hurts us all and I for one will not forget this in the future.
JMHO
Brad
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
76890 From: Craig Micek <micekc@e...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 9:44am
Subject: Re: Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
I think we should do a mass emailing to Ray and let him know what we think of that kind behavior. Post his addy. I'll write him one. Can one of you computer geeks write some kind of script to fill his mailbox up?
Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: BradP Kilgore
To: The Acuna Family ; mikdiamon@yahoo.com ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com ; Wade Ungaro
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
Its already bad&.
In the past, criminals have successfully sued home owners after they broke into a house, because they were injured (home owner shot them, they fell down or something else). That is the epitome of stupid, when the crook can sue you after breaking into your house! And dont forget successfully suing McDonalds for spilling hot coffee in your own lap, because it was too hot.
-----Original Message-----
From: The Acuna Family [mailto:mkacuna@cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 7:05 PM
To: Brad Kilgore; mikdiamon@yahoo.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; Wade Ungaro
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
The world is comeing to an end for sure.........The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that people injured in boating accidents can sue engine manufacturers for damages in state courts. What's next......sueing automakers when someone in their vehicle kills someone in a drunk driving accident?
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Wade Ungaro
To: BradP Kilgore ; mikdiamon@yahoo.com ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:02 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
I heard that there's some new "stupid" lawsuit where a guy is suing eBay for slander because people posted negative comments about his selling habits. What is this world coming to!!
Have a good day all!
~Wade
BradP Kilgore <brad.kilgore@pulte.com> wrote:
"Is this the way business is normally done on AZVJC?"
This statement was sarcasim and meant to get people's attention, and promote discussion, which I think has been acomplished.
Brandon has been around long enough to know what this group is all about, that is what makes this truly unfortunate. This is why Brandon chose to trust this fellow member with his hard earned cash, to purchase what he thought was a good deal on a nearly new winch. We continually post and read about our good experiences with one another, it is easy to forget that all people are not necessarly honest and not always good people. There are those who will and do take advantage of every oportunity. It is really a shame to believe that there are those type of people in within this group, but this seems to be the case.
Several phone calls were placed to the seller in this case, Ray Bratton, all were answered with a thumb of the nose and a too bad so sad attitude. Brandon even offered to pay half of the repairs of the winch, wow, this is more then he should have had to do!!! The seller offered a nearly new product, (Used Once!), any reasonable person would expect a working item. If I for one were to buy a product under these circumstances, I would expect my money back in no uncertain terms.
Should the buyer beware, absolutely! Should you be more trusting of people within our group, I would like the answer to be absolutely! We obviously do not know every member so we must do what we can to watch out for each other. Now that we know this type of person is out there, we must remember and encourage our fellow members to be careful when buying and be honest when selling. I don't know if any other members know Ray Bratton, but if they do, I would hope they would pick up the phone and encourage him to do the right thing. For those of us who do not know him, we do now....unfortunately!
Maybe we need to have a list like E-Bay, with good and bad experiences for buying and selling. I'm just thinking out loud, I realize there are problems with this idea. This hurts us all and I for one will not forget this in the future.
JMHO
Brad
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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76891 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 9:35am
Subject: RE: Re: Hikers May Disturb Nesting Owls
FYI.....
In the early 1900's the Ferruginous Pygmy Owl DID live in Arizona. They
were found along the river corridor as far north as Show Low on the
central/east corridor of the state. Not HUGE numbers but definitely
considered "residents" of Arizona. No one knows for sure why they started
migrating south............ of course agencies blame motorized vehicles and
urban growth as destroying their habitat...... today they live in the
thousands south of the border in Mexico. Have I heard Mexico has not "urban
growth or motorized vehicles"?????????? Interestingly we are now dedicating
THOUSANDS of acres of "Potential Habitat" to house these critters IF/WHEN
they return but they don't seem to like it north of the border. IF they do
return I'm doubting very much they want "isolated habitat"............ that
little critter can house in the saguaro in my back yard just as well as the
hawk does each year.
What the USFW have yet to accept is these little critters are NOT ENDANGERED
just because they decided to "relocate". There are thousands of these birds
in the wild.......... putting them on an "endangered" list because they are
not living where USFW WANT them to is ludicrous!!! My $.02 Sandee
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Craig Micek [mailto:micekc@e...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:37 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; my1stjeep@e...
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Hikers May Disturb Nesting Owls
>
>
> > If this is true, why is it necessary to close wide open lands with
> > low walled washes, that have no forest in sight that would be good
> > for motorized use?
> >
> > Chris
>
> You are confusing our little feathered friends. The reason for closing
> large tracts of desert land is because the greenies think the ferruginous
> pygmy-owl may want to live there someday. The birds made up thier mind
> thousands of years ago and didn't move in, but we need to give them a
> little more time. ;-)
>
> Craig
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
76892 From: Ben Krueger <ben@p...> <ben@p...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:07am
Subject: CB Radio
Hello all,
My wife wants to buy me a CB for my birthday. So where is a good
place to get a Cobra 75WXST, firestick and necessary cabling here in
the east valley??
TIA!
-Ben
76893 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:14am
Subject: Re: Re: 3/4 elip. suspension
To prevent rear steer and busted u-joints and bent leafs? I'd think these
would be big enough issues with a 3/4 that you'd want the links to make
the 3/4 work properly. But I don't know for sure - that's why I asked
the question.
-Roger
DesertJeep wrote:
Why would you add a 3 or 4 link to a 3/4? Wouldn't that be needed for a 1/4 elliptical? Or do I have them backwards?Joey K93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Tomas [mailto:tomasr@agcs.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:03 AM
To: TODD MCCULLEN
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: 3/4 elip. suspension
Todd,
I'm guessing "set up proper" means adding 3 or 4 link to
control the axle movement. Is that correct? If so, I'd
think that if you're gonna go to the trouble of adding links,
then you might as well switch to coils. Do you agree?
(Personally, I think one of the selling points of leaf springs
is their simplicity and adding links takes away the simplicity.
But I've never run anything but basic leaf springs.)
-Roger
TODD MCCULLEN wrote:
If a 3/4 elip. suspension is set up proper, it works great! Toddwww.desertfab.com
76894 From: onebdjeep <onebdjeep@c...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:21am
Subject: Re: OT: Job post
Awesome idea Ross! anyone else who knows or has heard of any openings in the
company that they own or work for please post them here to help some jeepers
out!
Thx for starting this Ross!!!
Sean Speer
OneBdJeep (someday!!)
'97 TJ with killer mods to come!!!
(umm... will drink beer for Jeep parts!!!)
Don't squat with yer spurs on!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross Skinner" <rskinner@s...>
To: "AZVJC (E-mail)" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:20 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] OT: Job post
> Hi everyone,
>
> I am looking to hire another Field Network Tech in the next month or so.
The
> job will require supporting existing network clients as well as installing
> new systems. This is a very challenging position and requires alot of self
> management and decision making. Our office is located near the 202 and
> McKellips; however, you will be out at client locations most of the time.
>
> The requirements are:
> MCSE NT4 or W2000 with at least W2000 Server of the W2000 certification.
> Four years experience in the field: installing, configuring and
maintaining
> Microsoft networks and various services. A strong understanding of IP and
> router knowledge will stand out. Must be a people-type of techy, this is
> required in our business.
> Must be able to travel within Arizona and some travel out of state. Very
> reliable transportation is required.
>
> We provide a very good health plan after 90 days of employment, generous
> mileage allowances and cell phone allowance. The position is hourly and is
a
> minimum of 32 hours a week.
>
> Please email resumes to me in MS Word format and put the word "resume" in
> the subject line of the email.
>
> Thanks
> Ross Skinner
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
76895 From: Rob Williams <g_rob_williams@y...> <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:24am
Subject: Re: CB Radio
CB Exchange near Main and Recker in Mesa. -Rob
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Ben Krueger <ben@p...>" <ben@p...>
wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> My wife wants to buy me a CB for my birthday. So where is a good
> place to get a Cobra 75WXST, firestick and necessary cabling here
in
> the east valley??
>
> TIA!
>
> -Ben
76896 From: Craig Micek <micekc@e...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:28am
Subject: Fw: Winch misrepresentaion
I sent this to our buddy Ray.
Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Micek
To: bratton5337@msn.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:23 AM
Subject: Winch misrepresentaion
Ray, you really should step up and do the right thing regarding the winch sale.
Right now there are about 1500 members of the avjc who believe you are a crook. You could turn that around very easily. Even if you don't refund the purchase price, at least split the cost of the repair. Remember what goes around comes around. It may hurt a little to cough up a few bucks now, but you will feel better afterward.
Craig
76897 From: Jeff Cox <coxy8@y...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:29am
Subject: Re: Re: CB Radio
I agree. The guy is very helpful and nice to deal
with.
--- "Rob Williams <g_rob_williams@y...>"
<g_rob_williams@y...> wrote:
> CB Exchange near Main and Recker in Mesa. -Rob
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Ben Krueger
> <ben@p...>" <ben@p...>
> wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > My wife wants to buy me a CB for my birthday. So
> where is a good
> > place to get a Cobra 75WXST, firestick and
> necessary cabling here
> in
> > the east valley??
> >
> > TIA!
> >
> > -Ben
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
=====
~Coxy~
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
76898 From: onebdjeep <onebdjeep@c...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:29am
Subject: Re: Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
computer geek here.... sure we can do that but all he has to do is block the emails coming through. i can spam the hell outta him with as many as his email server can handle but then again... my ISP would kick me out and i would not be able to get back in. now if i setup my own little smtp server and go to town i can hide it as typical internet traffic. unless they put a sniffer on my port. oh well. what do you want to do?
plus there are 2 ray bratton's.one jr and one regular. the jr is @ hotmail.com and the other is at msn.com. either way it may be a false addy and they don't check that email anymore. too many factors can take place here. both have phone nums... but who wants to sit on the phone all the time and call this prick. i can setup a wardialer to peg his phone num all the time and it would be like my modem crank callin his *** but what the hell fun is that.
i say we invite him on a trail run and we all gang up on him and give him a super wedgie!!! and then take a dump on his front seat!!!
how about that for my .02 (dot zero two in computer geek terms!)
Sean Speer
OneBdJeep (someday!!)
'97 TJ with killer mods to come!!!
(umm... will drink beer for Jeep parts!!!)
Don't squat with yer spurs on!
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Micek
To: The Acuna Family ; mikdiamon@yahoo.com ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com ; Wade Ungaro ; BradP Kilgore
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
I think we should do a mass emailing to Ray and let him know what we think of that kind behavior. Post his addy. I'll write him one. Can one of you computer geeks write some kind of script to fill his mailbox up?
Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: BradP Kilgore
To: The Acuna Family ; mikdiamon@yahoo.com ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com ; Wade Ungaro
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
It’s already bad….
In the past, criminals have successfully sued home owners after they broke into a house, because they were injured (home owner shot them, they fell down or something else). That is the epitome of stupid, when the crook can sue you after breaking into your house! And don’t forget successfully suing McDonalds for spilling hot coffee in your own lap, because it was too hot.
-----Original Message-----
From: The Acuna Family [mailto:mkacuna@cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 7:05 PM
To: Brad Kilgore; mikdiamon@yahoo.com; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; Wade Ungaro
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
The world is comeing to an end for sure.........The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that people injured in boating accidents can sue engine manufacturers for damages in state courts. What's next......sueing automakers when someone in their vehicle kills someone in a drunk driving accident?
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Wade Ungaro
To: BradP Kilgore ; mikdiamon@yahoo.com ; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:02 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Thanks a lot Ray....... BUYER BEWARE!!!!
I heard that there's some new "stupid" lawsuit where a guy is suing eBay for slander because people posted negative comments about his selling habits. What is this world coming to!!
Have a good day all!
~Wade
BradP Kilgore <brad.kilgore@pulte.com> wrote:
"Is this the way business is normally done on AZVJC?"
This statement was sarcasim and meant to get people's attention, and promote discussion, which I think has been acomplished.
Brandon has been around long enough to know what this group is all about, that is what makes this truly unfortunate. This is why Brandon chose to trust this fellow member with his hard earned cash, to purchase what he thought was a good deal on a nearly new winch. We continually post and read about our good experiences with one another, it is easy to forget that all people are not necessarly honest and not always good people. There are those who will and do take advantage of every oportunity. It is really a shame to believe that there are those type of people in within this group, but this seems to be the case.
Several phone calls were placed to the seller in this case, Ray Bratton, all were answered with a thumb of the nose and a too bad so sad attitude. Brandon even offered to pay half of the repairs of the winch, wow, this is more then he should have had to do!!! The seller offered a nearly new product, (Used Once!), any reasonable person would expect a working item. If I for one were to buy a product under these circumstances, I would expect my money back in no uncertain terms.
Should the buyer beware, absolutely! Should you be more trusting of people within our group, I would like the answer to be absolutely! We obviously do not know every member so we must do what we can to watch out for each other. Now that we know this type of person is out there, we must remember and encourage our fellow members to be careful when buying and be honest when selling. I don't know if any other members know Ray Bratton, but if they do, I would hope they would pick up the phone and encourage him to do the right thing. For those of us who do not know him, we do now....unfortunately!
Maybe we need to have a list like E-Bay, with good and bad experiences for buying and selling. I'm just thinking out loud, I realize there are problems with this idea. This hurts us all and I for one will not forget this in the future.
JMHO
Brad
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76899 From: onebdjeep <onebdjeep@c...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:31am
Subject: Re: Fw: Winch misrepresentaion
good job craig. simple yet to the point. let us know if he responds.
i still think he needs a super wedgie tho!!
Sean Speer
OneBdJeep (someday!!)
'97 TJ with killer mods to come!!!
(umm... will drink beer for Jeep parts!!!)
Don't squat with yer spurs on!
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Micek
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:28 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Fw: Winch misrepresentaion
I sent this to our buddy Ray.
Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Micek
To: bratton5337@msn.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:23 AM
Subject: Winch misrepresentaion
Ray, you really should step up and do the right thing regarding the winch sale.
Right now there are about 1500 members of the avjc who believe you are a crook. You could turn that around very easily. Even if you don't refund the purchase price, at least split the cost of the repair. Remember what goes around comes around. It may hurt a little to cough up a few bucks now, but you will feel better afterward.
Craig
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
76900 From: Trujillo, Jeff <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:15am
Subject: Winch theft
Ray, I know that you have been reading all these posts and feel guilty
inside even if you don't admit it. The right thing to do is cough up the
money. NOT pay for half of the repair he suggested. You sold an item under
false pretences. That is illegal and your PO should know this. I am sure you
will get quite a bit of harassment for this but who cares. If I had bought
that from you and it didn't work as you stated it did, believe me, I would
get my moneys worth one way or another. Do the right thing and give the
money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
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76901 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:41am
Subject: RE: Re: 3/4 elip. suspension
I could understand a traction bar like you would use for SOA, maybe an anti-sway bar for street use and more likely just some limiting straps to keep from snapping the 1/2 spring. A 3 or 4 link setup would work against the 3/4 elliptical setup.
Maybe Todd could elaborate more as I am no expert.
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Tomas [mailto:tomasr@agcs.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:15 AM
To: joey@DesertJeep.com
Cc: 'TODD MCCULLEN'; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: 3/4 elip. suspension
To prevent rear steer and busted u-joints and bent leafs? I'd think these
would be big enough issues with a 3/4 that you'd want the links to make
the 3/4 work properly. But I don't know for sure - that's why I asked
the question.
-Roger
DesertJeep wrote:
Why would you add a 3 or 4 link to a 3/4? Wouldn't that be needed for a 1/4 elliptical? Or do I have them backwards?Joey K93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Tomas [mailto:tomasr@agcs.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:03 AM
To: TODD MCCULLEN
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: 3/4 elip. suspension
Todd,
I'm guessing "set up proper" means adding 3 or 4 link to
control the axle movement. Is that correct? If so, I'd
think that if you're gonna go to the trouble of adding links,
then you might as well switch to coils. Do you agree?
(Personally, I think one of the selling points of leaf springs
is their simplicity and adding links takes away the simplicity.
But I've never run anything but basic leaf springs.)
-Roger
TODD MCCULLEN wrote:
If a 3/4 elip. suspension is set up proper, it works great! Toddwww.desertfab.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
76902 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:48am
Subject: [FS] $400 warn 8274 winch
Price: $400
Contact: chris@602-526-2584
winch is a little worn but still in good shape. includes roller, remote, extra solinoids, and is on winch plate for chevy truck
Chris Jean
76903 From: TOYS BY TROY, llc. <TOYSBYTROY@C...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:51am
Subject: Re: Fw: Winch misrepresentaion
We knead a pick of his jeep and a discretion of him. So when we find him on the trail stuck we don't help and we know this will happen because he destroyed the winch right!!!!!!!!!!!
troy
From: Craig Micek
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:28 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Fw: Winch misrepresentaion
I sent this to our buddy Ray.
Craig
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Micek
To: bratton5337@msn.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:23 AM
Subject: Winch misrepresentaion
Ray, you really should step up and do the right thing regarding the winch sale.
Right now there are about 1500 members of the avjc who believe you are a crook. You could turn that around very easily. Even if you don't refund the purchase price, at least split the cost of the repair. Remember what goes around comes around. It may hurt a little to cough up a few bucks now, but you will feel better afterward.
Craig
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
76904 From: BradP Kilgore <brad.kilgore@p...>
Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:06am
Subject: RE: Winch theft
I wonder what the Arizona Probation Department would have to say on this
subject. On of the terms of all probations is to remain a law abiding
citizen....
Selling an obviously well used/non working product, misrepresenting this
product as new/used once and working product, is a crime in Arizona, at
least Theft (Class 6 Felony) or at most Fraud (Class 2 Felony)!
13-1802. Theft; classification
A. A person commits theft if, without lawful authority, the person
knowingly:
3. Obtains services or property (Money could be considered property) of
another by means of any material misrepresentation with intent to
deprive the other person of such property or services.
8. "Material misrepresentation" means a pretense, promise,
representation or statement of present, past or future fact that is
fraudulent and that, when used or communicated, is instrumental in
causing the wrongful control or transfer of property or services. The
pretense may be verbal or it may be a physical act.
OR
13-2310. Fraudulent schemes and artifices; classification; definition
A. Any person who, pursuant to a scheme or artifice to defraud,
knowingly obtains any benefit by means of false or fraudulent pretenses,
representations, promises or material omissions is guilty of a class 2
felony.
E. As used in this section, "scheme or artifice to defraud" includes a
scheme or artifice to deprive a person of the intangible right of honest
services.
-----Original Message-----
From: Trujillo, Jeff [mailto:jeff.trujillo@m...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:15 AM
To: 'bratton5337@m...'
Cc: AZVJC (E-mail)
Subject: [az_vjc] Winch theft
Ray, I know that you have been reading all these posts and feel guilty
inside even if you don't admit it. The right thing to do is cough up the
money. NOT pay for half of the repair he suggested. You sold an item
under
false pretences. That is illegal and your PO should know this. I am sure
you
will get quite a bit of harassment for this but who cares. If I had
bought
that from you and it didn't work as you stated it did, believe me, I
would
get my moneys worth one way or another. Do the right thing and give the
money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error,
please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/