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Number 7
06-03-2008, 06:50 PM
This came accross on the Yahoo Groups this afternoon. The problem is that neither the website nor the 800# listed below get you the information you need. Does anyone know how to access the current Pollution Advisory for Maricopa County at any given time? Please post up, we must all start checking before a trail ride.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How many of you are aware of the new state regulations that prohibit OHV activities on days of High Pollution Advisory ?

How many of you knew that last weekend was the 1st time that a High Pollution Advisory covered an entire weekend ?

How many of you broke the law and went wheeling last weekend ?

Anyone that did is jeopardizing our rights to wheel and is risking that every trail in Maricopa County including ALL of Table Mesa and Florence/Florence Junction could be closed to us, permanently.

No not a rumor, not a joke but a fact:


New! Requirements for Off Highway Recreational Vehicles
New laws limiting OHV activity in Maricopa County take effect April 8, 2008. On days when a high pollution advisory has been issued, off-road activities will not be permitted. If you are planning to drive or ride an OHV within Maricopa County check first to see if an advisory has been issued by calling (800) 234-5677 or Maricopa County or sign up to receive a text message. Please see the new map of OHV areas with restrictions.

Source of this:

http://www.azdeq.gov/environ/air/prevent/

The statement on the website seems pretty much to sum it up. The map is vague and conflicts with the statement and with what we were told earlier about this in that it covered all of Maricopa, Florence Junction/Florence area and Table Mesa area as they are all in the Maricopa PM10 area.


From what I understand the AZDEQ was going to close ALL of these trails, not just on High Pollution Days but every day of the year. The AZHOVC and the ASA4WDC got wind of this and their law firm got involved and made a compromise that left the trails open if we agreed not to go riding on High Pollution Days.

Ok, up until now no big deal, there were no High Pollution days on weekends in the past and only 28 of them last year. This is 2008 and according to what I read in the paper this weekend, we can expect more of these days this year and more of them on weekends.

Why has this not be more publicized ? Why has the OHV groups responsible for the compromise not getting out there and telling us this so that we know ?

I learned about it from the ASA4WDC in April when they told the reps from their member clubs what had happened. Yet I see nothing on their website or the AZOHVCs website warning everyone else about it.

Lack of information and lack of self policing will end up closing these trails for us, the BLM, Forest Service and the State Land Trust won't have to do a thing, wont have to have any hearings or get public comment, they just get closed because we didn't know or we didn't believe it would happen.

Number 7
06-03-2008, 06:53 PM
Actually, from the posting above I was able to go to the website and from there click on Maricopa County. From there I clicked on Ozone Levels which indicated that yesterday and today were poor ozone days?

Is that what we're supposed to be doing?

Help!!!

d

amber.hodge
06-03-2008, 07:41 PM
Where has Sandee been? I havent seen her on here for what feels like eternity.

Markos
06-03-2008, 08:11 PM
Hmm, interesting. I thought I broke the law for a second, but I wasn't in Maricopa Country. I did speed on my way to work this morning, so I still broke the law recently... :D

It would be cool if we could setup an RSS Feed for this site. That's assuming that it exists somewhere.

samdog3
06-03-2008, 09:42 PM
(((SLIPPERY SLOPE GUYS))))

HAPPY IM ON THE WAY OUT NOT JUST COMING IN
:skull::skull::skull::skull::skull::skull::skull:: skull:

AZG23
06-03-2008, 09:48 PM
It was my understanding (and Im far from knowledgable on this) is that it was only HPA days Monday-Friday..that weekends were exempt.

jpotts
06-03-2008, 10:17 PM
It was my understanding (and Im far from knowledgable on this) is that it was only HPA days Monday-Friday..that weekends were exempt.

That was also my understanding - and I am also far from knowledgeable. We need Jack back on this board. He'd know.

Number 7
06-03-2008, 10:17 PM
Sandee just posted up on the Yahoo group that originally it was only supposed to be M-F but that ADEQ got it changed to everyday. So it is in effect even on the weekends.

I found out that you can just go to the local weather forcast on line and find out if there's an advisory.

We're going to have to start doing this guys. Maybe Joe can add a link to a weather website or something. Mainly for the reminder - we need to be exemplary if possible!

Ideas?
d

jpotts
06-03-2008, 10:25 PM
Sandee just posted up on the Yahoo group that originally it was only supposed to be M-F but that ADEQ got it changed to everyday. So it is in effect even on the weekends.

I found out that you can just go to the local weather forcast on line and find out if there's an advisory.

We're going to have to start doing this guys. Maybe Joe can add a link to a weather website or something. Mainly for the reminder - we need to be exemplary if possible!

Ideas?
d

Wow. That really sucks.

jpotts
06-03-2008, 10:31 PM
So is it all of Maricopa county? Or just the places listed as restricted? Basically, does this include the Table Mesa area?

rockreadyyj07
06-04-2008, 09:04 AM
Not something we want to be proud of, but more than that Keep It To Yourself, greenies dont need extra ammo


Hmm, interesting. I thought I broke the law for a second, but I wasn't in Maricopa Country. I did speed on my way to work this morning, so I still broke the law recently... :D

It would be cool if we could setup an RSS Feed for this site. That's assuming that it exists somewhere.

LJYJ
06-04-2008, 05:10 PM
Good thing there is not many trails in the High pollution area's! ! ! !
Is this why I couldn't get anyone to go out night wheeling last weekend????

Number 7
06-04-2008, 06:27 PM
So is it all of Maricopa county? Or just the places listed as restricted? Basically, does this include the Table Mesa area?

I'm not sure if it includes the trails at Table Mesa or just access to them like it does in FJ. If you want to wheel in FJ on a High Pollution day you can go in via Superior or Kerney and you'll be alright. Not sure how you'd get into Table Mesa to avoid the main road in which appears to be on the map.


Good thing there is not many trails in the High pollution area's! ! ! !
Is this why I couldn't get anyone to go out night wheeling last weekend????


It includes more trails than you'd think. Here's the new map of OHV areas with restrictions: http://www.azdeq.gov:80/environ/air/prevent/images/ohv.jpg

AZG23
06-04-2008, 06:32 PM
So I guess thats it.....time to sell the Jeep and get a Prius...cant afford gas, cant wheel when you have the time off...cant use the land we live on

guess the commies got their way..

LJYJ
06-04-2008, 08:19 PM
So I guess thats it.....time to sell the Jeep and get a Prius...cant afford gas, cant wheel when you have the time off...cant use the land we live on

guess the commies got their way..

NEVER! there is always a way! natural gas alternative! find a wrecked prius and convert into 4x4. lol.......................... It could happen!!!:aagh: IDK


What about all the hummer tours and outdoor 4x4 adventures. I feel Bad for them!

xjstocker
06-04-2008, 10:56 PM
i didnt see fj on the map the 60 to fj by desert wells is on there. and it is an approved ride area with restrictions. tm is not approved with restrictions. so does this mean that i can go to tm or not? no answer given. and does this mean that firebird raceway wont have drags on high polution days? those dragsters can pump out more emissions in one pass than my little 4cly engine can all day. btw the hummer tours operate in bulldog canyon, its an approved ride area with restrictions

DaveDan
06-06-2008, 05:07 PM
Looking at Arizona Revised Statues linked from ADEQ, here was all I could find as far as what is law on the HPA restrictions:

49-457.03. Off-road vehicles; pollution advisory days; applicability; penalties

A. In area A, as defined in section 49-541, a person shall not operate an off-highway vehicle, an all-terrain vehicle or an off-road recreational motor vehicle on an unpaved surface that is not a public or private road, street or lawful easement during any high pollution advisory day forecast for particulate matter by the department.

B. This section does not apply to:

1. An event that is intended for off-highway vehicles, all-terrain vehicles or off-road recreational motor vehicles and that is endorsed, authorized, permitted or sponsored by a public agency, that occurs on a designated route or area and that includes dust abatement measures at all staging areas, parking areas and entrances.

2. An event that occurs at a facility for which an admission or user fee is charged and that includes dust abatement measures.

3. A closed course that is maintained with dust abatement measures.

4. An off-highway vehicle, all-terrain vehicle or off-road recreational motor vehicle used in the normal course of business or the normal course of government operations.

5. Golf carts that are used as part of a private or public golf course operation.

C. A person who violates this section is subject to:

1. A warning for the first violation.

2. The imposition of a civil penalty of fifty dollars for the second violation.

3. The imposition of a civil penalty of one hundred dollars for the third violation.

4. The imposition of a civil penalty of two hundred fifty dollars for the fourth or any subsequent violation.

D. For violations of this section, the control officer or other enforcement officer shall use a uniform civil ticket and complaint substantially similar to a uniform traffic ticket and complaint prescribed by the rules of procedure in civil traffic cases adopted by the supreme court. The control officer or other enforcement officer may issue citations to persons in violation of this section.

However, it does not define the orange octagons ("Places to Ride With Limitations") on the map (which is what ARS 49-541 defines but doesn't reference either) that Number 7 posted the link to. Am I missing something?

Also, I was able to sign up for text message advance notification to my cellphone for when ADEQ announces HPA days at:

http://www.azdeq.gov/sms.html

Thanks Number 7 for pointing this out!!!

David C
06-06-2008, 05:43 PM
I have an idea. Let's toss out every single person in office. It's our RIGHT and it's time. I'm sick of this.

jpotts
06-06-2008, 07:39 PM
I'm still a little confused. I'm sorry if it seems like splitting hairs, but is a Jeep in the category of "off-highway vehicles, all-terrain vehicles or off-road recreational motor vehicles" if it is actually street legal?

Number 7
06-09-2008, 09:10 PM
This came across on the Yahoo Group this evening. I think it will help clear up some of the questions:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I emailed the AZDEQ; here's the response.

----- Original Message -----
From: Diane Arnst
To:
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 9:16 AM
Subject: OHV Definition question



We appreciate your interest in the new requirements for OHVs to reduce emissions of particulate matter on High Pollution Advisory days. The U.S. Forest Service, Department of Agriculture, defines “Off-highway vehicle” and “Motor vehicle” in Title 36 of the Code of Federal Regulations, Parks, Forests and Public Property at Section 212.1 as follows:

“Off-highway vehicle. Any motor vehicle designed for or capable of cross-country travel on or immediately over land, water, sand, snow, ice, marsh, swampland, or other natural terrain.”

“Motor vehicle. Any vehicle which is self-propelled, other than (a) A vehicle operated on rails; and (2) Any wheelchair or mobility device, including one that is battery-powered, that is designed solely for use in an indoor pedestrian area.”

Use of a Jeep off-road on the listed unpaved surfaces on a High Pollution Advisory day is illegal under the new law. Preventing disturbance of the desert soils on such days is the goal, regardless of whether the vehicle is also street legal.

For more information on the Forest Service roads, please contact Tamyra “Tammy” J. Pike, OHV Coordinator, Forest Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture, at (602) 225-5235 or tpike@fs.fed.us.

From:
Sent: Sat 6/7/2008 1:47 AM
To: Stephen A. Owens
Subject: law change question

Hello,

Please direct this email to whoever can answer it best.

I have a couple questions about a recent law. I'm the owner of a large 4x4 club and our members are going back and forth trying to understand the rules on this one. your website states:

" Note that the following activities are illegal in Area A during days when HPAs have been called for particulate matter:

Use of an off-highway vehicle (including an all-terrain vehicle or an off-road recreation motor vehicle) on an unpaved surface that is not a public or private road, street, or easement - except at designated locations and events where dust controls are in place. "
What is your definition of an off-highway vehicle? Does my jeep which is street legal count? I understand what an all-terrain vehicle is. My second question is, how do you define an unpaved public/private road? Does that include forest roads and dirt roads which are named?

David C
06-09-2008, 09:39 PM
Thanks for passing on the info Number 7. If wasn't so disillusioned and jaded already, I would be shocked - we are now criminals if we stir up some dust with our Jeep. ***?! The definition of 'criminal' has been broadened once again and this time it's for a totally harmless and very common activity. They are watching this closely to see if we just roll over and take it. Then they will do it again and it will be for something even more harmless and common, like being outdoors after 8pm. They want us all to be within the definition of 'criminal'. And they are succeeding brilliantly. Nobody is standing up to stop them. $4/gal gas - nobody does anything to stop them. They are going to keep at it and strangle all of us. What's next?

HvyHau8272
06-09-2008, 09:48 PM
First I want to say thank you for posting this, it is good info to know. But this is all BS the ADEQ is a joke in the first place.

As for a Jeep being a motor vehicle ....yes it is defined by DOT as one. This is the same DOT that defines a public roadway as one that has open access to the motoring public and the likelyhood of being used by the public. To me that would inclued TM, FJ and others as public roadways and allowed to be used by the public at all times. ON THE SAME TOKEN TRY AND FIGHT THE GOVT' ON THIS ONE AND SEE WHO WINS.

I was not "wheeling" this W/E I was hunting (Wink Wink) therefor I was not breaking the law. :smug:

What does this do for the boaters going to Apache Lake on the dusty Apache Trail or the Farmers that are plowing thier fields, or the lawn maintance crews that are mowing dead grass areas and blowing dust everywhere or the ect , ect, ect the list goes on and on.

HvyHau8272
06-09-2008, 10:02 PM
ADEQ: SMS ALERTS
ADEQ is now offering a text messaging service to inform people when a High Pollution Advisory (HPA) is being issued for the Greater Phoenix Area. If you sign up for this service, you will receive a text message on your cell phone or small message service (SMS) wireless device by midafternoon the day before the HPA is issued. Note that the following activities are illegal in Area A during days when HPAs have been called for particulate matter:

Use of an off-highway vehicle (including an all-terrain vehicle or an off-road recreation motor vehicle) on an unpaved surface that is not a public or private road, street, or easement - except at designated locations and events where dust controls are in place.
City, Town, and County employees and contractors are prohibited from operating leaf blowers, except in vacuum mode, on days when a high pollution advisory has been issued. Residents and private contractors within the area are discouraged from using blowers on HPA days as well.
Residential wood burning, except in U.S. Environmental Protection Agency-approved woodstoves and fireplace inserts or if it is the sole source of heat.
Recreational outdoor fires except fires used for cooking food or providing warmth for human beings.
While ADEQ charges no fee for this service, the fees set under your cell phone or wireless device plan will apply. To cancel this service, text STOP ADEQ to 95495.




Here are maps from the link mentioned above showing closed areas that dont inclued FJ or TM. I'm reading more on it and will post what I find if anything.
http://www.land.state.az.us/pdfs/DustAbatePlusTable.pdf#zoom=100


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Number 7
06-10-2008, 08:29 AM
I understand everyone's frustration here; it does appear that we (OHV) are getting the short end of the stick. But what you guys are forgetting is that this is OUR solution to the problem! We (OHV) offered to NOT WHEEL ON HPA DAYS rather than having these areas closed.

Try to keep this in perspective. Not every weekend is going to be HPA. If it is HPA, we'll have to go to a different area outside of area A or do something else.

The state pays a fine to the feds when our particulates go over a certain level. This is their way of passing the penalty forward. We aren't the only ones who are subject to citations: construction companies, farmers, landscapers, etc. all have a set of guidelines to follow as well.

I am afraid that this will be the rope we hang ourselves with. If everybody tries to find 'creative' ways to get around it or loopholes in the wording, you can bet these areas will be closed. You can be anti-government regulation all you want, but WE are the ones who came up with this one!

Diane

pennstater
06-10-2008, 11:34 AM
ADEQ: SMS ALERTS
ADEQ is now offering a text messaging service to inform people when a High Pollution Advisory (HPA) is being issued for the Greater Phoenix Area. If you sign up for this service, you will receive a text message on your cell phone or small message service (SMS) wireless device by midafternoon the day before the HPA is issued. Note that the following activities are illegal in Area A during days when HPAs have been called for particulate matter:

Use of an off-highway vehicle (including an all-terrain vehicle or an off-road recreation motor vehicle) on an unpaved surface that is not a public or private road, street, or easement - except at designated locations and events where dust controls are in place.
City, Town, and County employees and contractors are prohibited from operating leaf blowers, except in vacuum mode, on days when a high pollution advisory has been issued. Residents and private contractors within the area are discouraged from using blowers on HPA days as well.
Residential wood burning, except in U.S. Environmental Protection Agency-approved woodstoves and fireplace inserts or if it is the sole source of heat.
Recreational outdoor fires except fires used for cooking food or providing warmth for human beings.
While ADEQ charges no fee for this service, the fees set under your cell phone or wireless device plan will apply. To cancel this service, text STOP ADEQ to 95495.




Here are maps from the link mentioned above showing closed areas that dont inclued FJ or TM. I'm reading more on it and will post what I find if anything.
http://www.land.state.az.us/pdfs/DustAbatePlusTable.pdf#zoom=100


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I see how to stop the text service, but how do you start the service?

jpotts
06-10-2008, 11:55 AM
I understand everyone's frustration here; it does appear that we (OHV) are getting the short end of the stick. But what you guys are forgetting is that this is OUR solution to the problem! We (OHV) offered to NOT WHEEL ON HPA DAYS rather than having these areas closed.

Try to keep this in perspective. Not every weekend is going to be HPA. If it is HPA, we'll have to go to a different area outside of area A or do something else.

The state pays a fine to the feds when our particulates go over a certain level. This is their way of passing the penalty forward. We aren't the only ones who are subject to citations: construction companies, farmers, landscapers, etc. all have a set of guidelines to follow as well.

I am afraid that this will be the rope we hang ourselves with. If everybody tries to find 'creative' ways to get around it or loopholes in the wording, you can bet these areas will be closed. You can be anti-government regulation all you want, but WE are the ones who came up with this one!

Diane

Thanks Diane. That makes a lot of sense. We really should try to follow this regulation for the good of our OHV community. This also illustrates what I see as the root cause of the problem. We are in a desert valley, yet the EPA holds us to the same standards for particulate matter as a forested area or mountain community. The EPA needs to have an exception for particulate matter in the valley. Another example of a problem area for particulate matter according to the EPA is the Coachella Valley in California. They don't have near the number of people, but have similar issues. I don't see dust as being something that is preventable in our environment. I think that if you go to a similar desert area anywhere in the world (whether or not people inhabit the area), you will find high levels of dust on a moderately windy day.

djui5
06-10-2008, 12:57 PM
Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for gathering this info here. I haven't even heard of this and am glad I read this thread. The last thing I need is a ticket for off roading :angel:

Edit:

I found HPA e-mail alearts!

http://www.valleymetro.org/Rideshare/Clean_Air_Program/HPA_Signup/index.htm

djui5
06-10-2008, 01:05 PM
Also, I saw on the dust control map what looks like the Mineral Mountain area? Is that right, and is it closed forever? What does that red area mean? I know, I'm an idiot about this stuff :)

Number 7
06-10-2008, 03:48 PM
I just signed up to receive an email whenever there is a HPA at this address:

<http://www.azdeq.gov/subscribe.html>

It's simple enough so far.

If anybody thinks of ways that we may spread the word to our fellow OHV enthusiasts, post it up. I am going to begin talking to the donut doers at staging areas and hope it does some good.

Posters at kiosks would be great, too. I wonder if AZDEQ would give us some?

NVRSTUKTJ
06-11-2008, 01:55 PM
I signed up for their email alerts....got this one today....


** EMPLOYERS--ACTIVATE YOUR HPA PLAN **

A High Pollution Advisory for Ozone has been issued for Thursday, June 12, 2008 by the Arizona Department of Environmental Quality.


Children, active adults and those with respiratory illness should restrict their outdoor activities.

HERE’S WHAT YOU CAN DO:
Ride the bus, carpool, or telecommute if possible
Eliminate all unnecessary driving and/or combine trips
Refuel after dark
Don't use gas powered lawn or garden equipment
To find a carpool or vanpool visit: ShareTheRide.com or call 602.262.RIDE (7433)
Learn more about ozone pollution and what to do at RunningOutOfAir.com.

Helpful Links
Carpool/Vanpool Online Matching
602-262-RIDE (7433)

Bus Route Information
602-253-5000

Air Quality Update
602-771-2367 (ADEQ)

Air Quality Status
602-420-9458 (Maricopa County)

Summer 2008 Ozone HPA Days:
June 12, 2008
June 1, 2008
May 31, 2008
May 30, 2008
May 20, 2008
April 24, 2008


Carpool | Vanpool | Bus | Bike | Walk | Telecommute | Light Rail (Dec 2008)
Valley Metro Smart Move | (602) 262-RIDE (7433)

macinyart
06-11-2008, 02:52 PM
I hadn't thought about it, but it appears that there are more than one type of HPA.
The one just posted refers to Ozone, but I also suspect that the only ones we are interested in are for "particulate matter".

True? Not true? I am pretty sure that the ADEQ rules/laws are confusing enough that we can still "step in it" without trying. Thanks for posting all the info, Diane.

jpotts
06-11-2008, 03:26 PM
I hadn't thought about it, but it appears that there are more than one type of HPA.
The one just posted refers to Ozone, but I also suspect that the only ones we are interested in are for "particulate matter".

True? Not true? I am pretty sure that the ADEQ rules/laws are confusing enough that we can still "step in it" without trying. Thanks for posting all the info, Diane.

Not that it means much, but it was also my understanding that it was only for high levels of particulate matter. I am fairly sure that I read that as I was looking into this topic on various sites.

Number 7
06-11-2008, 04:13 PM
This is the one I got, apparently you can select different advisories be sent. But it says plain as day HIGH POLLUTION ADVISORY in the text:

This announcement is for informational purposes only. Please do not reply to this e-mail. Questions may be directed to the contact provided in each notice. Thank you.

http://www.azdeq.gov/ensemble.pdf

For transportation alternatives:
http://www.valleymetro.org

Health message for Wednesday, June 11: Unusually Sensitive People
should consider limiting prolonged exertion outdoors.

Health message for Thursday, June 12: Active children and adults and
people with respiratory disease such as asthma should limit prolonged
outdoor exertion.

Synopsis and Discussion
*AN OZONE HIGH POLLUTION ADVISORY IS BEING ISSUED FOR THURSDAY, JUNE 12,
2008*
Not too bad... There were only two ozone exceedances in the local
forecast area on Tuesday, and with overnight winds, concentrations are
down about 15 parts per billion at almost every site compared to the
same time yesterday. This means there's a good chance that there won't
be any additional exceedances on Wednesday. Now for the bad news...
Alamo Lake, a monitor located in La Paz County northwest of the Phoenix
forecast area also exceeded the 8-hr health standard on Tuesday. This
tells us that there is still ample ozone and precursors to our west.
With high pressure returning to the region Thursday through the weekend,
we will see a significant warm up under mostly sunny skies. Light
westerly winds will only aid the precursors in moving over the Valley.
Combined with our own additional pollution, we're likely going to see
some more exceedances on Thursday, primarily in the northern and eastern
parts of the Valley. Thus, we are issuing an Ozone High Pollution
Advisory for Thursday, which could possibly be extended into Friday with
little change to the weather pattern. Check back tomorrow for the
latest. Have a good day! -J.Paul

jpotts
06-11-2008, 04:34 PM
A. In area A, as defined in section 49-541, a person shall not operate an off-highway vehicle, an all-terrain vehicle or an off-road recreational motor vehicle on an unpaved surface that is not a public or private road, street or lawful easement during any high pollution advisory day forecast for particulate matter by the department.

I think we are good to wheel when it's ozone.

AZG23
06-11-2008, 04:37 PM
thats got me confused also...Ive been getting them...

SO it needs to state only particulate matter or PM-10 ...? its as clear as a dust storm

Number 7
06-12-2008, 07:03 PM
A little bit of clarification:

Thursday and Friday are HPD (high polution days) but not due to Particulates (PM10) it is due to Ozone. Bottom line at this point the rules are still being figured out on this. On all HPD days OHV is shut down in the non attanment areas (Maricopa County). We (AZOHVC) are working to make the rules so that OHV is only shutdown on PM10 days as we do not effect the Ozone levels much.
Jim F.
__________________
89 YJ Nearly Stock:)
President AZ RockRats
President AZOHVC

jpotts
06-14-2008, 12:49 PM
A little bit of clarification:

Thursday and Friday are HPD (high polution days) but not due to Particulates (PM10) it is due to Ozone. Bottom line at this point the rules are still being figured out on this. On all HPD days OHV is shut down in the non attanment areas (Maricopa County). We (AZOHVC) are working to make the rules so that OHV is only shutdown on PM10 days as we do not effect the Ozone levels much.
Jim F.
__________________
89 YJ Nearly Stock:)
President AZ RockRats
President AZOHVC

Jim was wheeling at TM today, so I guess the confusion continues...