blooddrive
01-07-2004, 09:53 PM
76402-76426
76402 From: Richard Logan <rlogan@d...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:38am
Subject:
Richard Logan 92 YJ
From: "Richard Logan" rlogan@d...
To: az_vj@y...
Subject: YJ Dream
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:32:25 -0700
As I went to bed last and started to fall asleep
In my head I started the to think about all the threads about hummers, toyota and jeeps
Then all of sudden I was all locked up and started to creep
So off I went all twisted up to crawl my jeep to the very top
When I reach the summit their I did stop
Then I looked far far below to see what I could see
There were all the hummers and such looking up at the jeep and me
then all of a sudden the ground began to rumble
I looked back in amazment and glee as jeeps of all sorts had wheeled to the top to see
then all of a sudden their was such a chatter
About jeeps and things that really matter
When all of a sudden it was as if the earth was shak'in
My eyes popped wide open and there was my sweet wife looking down upon me
Then she softly began to speak
honey i can't take any more about jeeps
you talk about them even in your sleep
I looked into her eyes, i said honey your right
so tommorow we will go to mall or a show
This is where all the other hummers and 4x4 go
So with this we hugged and kissed
She was not so very pi##ed !
so as we both feel back off to sleep
Back came the dreams of my YJ Jeep
Rick logan 92 YJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
76403 From: Richard Logan <rlogan@d...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:40am
Subject: YJ Dreaming
As I went to bed last and started to fall asleep
In my head I started the to think about all the threads about hummers, toyota and jeeps
Then all of sudden I was all locked up and started to creep
So off I went all twisted up to crawl my jeep to the very top
When I reach the summit their I did stop
Then I looked far far below to see what I could see
There were all the hummers and such looking up at the jeep and me
then all of a sudden the ground began to rumble
I looked back in amazment and glee as jeeps of all sorts had wheeled to the top to see
then all of a sudden their was such a chatter
About jeeps and things that really matter
When all of a sudden it was as if the earth was shak'in
My eyes popped wide open and there was my sweet wife looking down upon me
Then she softly began to speak
honey i can't take any more about jeeps
you talk about them even in your sleep
I looked into her eyes, i said honey your right
so tommorow we will go to mall or a show
This is where all the other hummers and 4x4 go
So with this we hugged and kissed
She was not so very pi##ed !
so as we both feel back off to sleep
Back came the dreams of my YJ Jeep
Rick logan 92 YJ
76404 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:35am
Subject: Re: was Rubicon VS H2 NOW KIA's that might be taken serious
I should have mentioned that this picture was set up.....
It took 2 jeeps with winches and several anchor vehicles to get keith out.
Keith is always a good sport and let the kia hook up to him for the picture.
The kia did attempt to pull him out but I joked while it was happening that
it was having a hard time taking the tension out of the tow strap (nevermind
budging the jeep!)
Bill-I havent had a chance to read all the posts yet-(was at the open
yesterday and my mailbox filled up) But....is that anyway to thank me for
the great deal on the rims ?
Just kiddin. :)
Frank
BadAzXJ@m...
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>
> > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > > Oops, sorry, I thought I posted my message to the Arizona Virtual JEEP
> > Club.
> > > Last I heard, most of us here were fanatics about Jeeps. Sure, Kia
>makes
>a
> > > good lil sport ute (and I mean that) but you can't compare it to a
>Jeep.
> > And
> > > if I was stuck and there were 7 Jeeps and 1 Kia Sportage around, I
>would
> > > first go to the Jeeps to ask for a tug. If there wasn't a Jeep around
>I
> > > would be very appreciative if the Kia would help. As for the god
>complex,
> > I
> > > think our Jeeps have earned the right to be revered as offroad titans,
> > don't
> > > you? They are in a class by themselves and no other manufacturer has
> > > anything comparible. Besides, every vehicle make has its fanatics. I
>have
> > > Toyota truck friends that feel the same way about Toyota that some of
>us
> > > feel about our Jeeps (there is NO way they want to be pulled out by a
>Jeep
> > > unless there is no other choice). Oh and getting stuck can be fun,
>too.
>Ya
> > > can't blame the Jeep for getting stuck. Anything can get stuck.
> > >
> > > And for the record, I don't like trying to compare a Jeep to a Hummer.
> > They
> > > are two WAY different vehicles. I don't think the H2 is intended for
> > > hardcore 4x4 action anyway. It's a neat rig and I personally would
>love
>to
> > > have one, but Jeep and Hummer cover two different markets in my
>opinion.
> > > Kind of like comparing a fullsize extended cab Ford 4x4 to a Jeep.
>Sure
>a
> > > lifted full size truck can go through 4 feet of snow but it doesn't
>rock
> > > crawl well.
> > >
> > > Lastly, I've seen several stock Jeeps from the club out there
>wheeling.
>My
> > > latest Jeep is mostly still stock and we wheel it all the time. Sorry
>I
> > > don't have $40,000 right now to drop in a Corvette engine, 39 inch
>tires
> > and
> > > locked Dana 60's all around.
> > >
> > > Oh and if anyway should get flamed it's Frank for instigating this
>whole
> > > argument by posting that picture :-).
> > >
> > > ---------------
> > > Bill Hooven
> > > Jeeps Only
> > > http://www.jeepsonly.com
> > > A Yahoo-style directory of Jeep links
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...>
> > > To: <jeepindog@y...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 4:30 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > > Besides, how many of us wheel stock Jeeps anyway?
> > > >
> > > > Scott K
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...> [mailto:jeepindog@y...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:12 PM
> > > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > KIA is not a bad manufacturer. In fact, they make some pretty
> > > > decent vehicles. Remember when a Honda was the cheapest piece of
> > > > ****e you could find on the road? (I do.) KIA never made a cheap
> > > > car, but they do make some very inexpensive cars. The fact that
>they
> > > > make one with a two-speed transfer case that did pretty well in the
> > > > 4x4 of the Year comparison (the actual 'wheelin part) that is
> > > > actually affordable and well-made should earn it some well-deserved
> > > > respect. Jeep Jeep Jeep. Don't you guys ever get tired of eating
> > > > the same thing for lunch? I will always own my Jeep, and love it
>and
> > > > all Jeeps. There are other vehicles out there that are very good at
> > > > some of the things that Jeeps are good at. Not *as* good, but
> > > > close. And if a Jeep driver just happens to get the Jeep stuck
> > > > (won't mention driver's ability) who cares who pulls it out? Maybe
> > > > DC should start charging extra for the God Complex that comes with
> > > > owning a Jeep!
> > > >
> > > > Lachlan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Clint Ramsey" <cwramsey@t...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I almost vomited when I opened that picture
> > > > >
> > > > > Clint
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
> > > > > To: Joe-CJ7@J...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > > arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Kia pulling TJ....
> > > > >
> > > > > (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com
> > > > oops
> > > > > section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
> > > > > sunday)
> > > > >
> > > > > Frank
> > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
__________________________________________________ _______________
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76405 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:47am
Subject: [FS] Wanted - SHOCKS
Price: Reasonable
Contact: Barry Stem
I'm looking for shocks for my 1/2 ton suburban and I need a set for the front of my CJ7 w/ a4" lift. Phone number is 480-226-5266
Barry Stem
76406 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:49am
Subject: RE: was Rubicon VS H2 NOW KIA's that might be taken serious
Turbo Diesel... Hummm
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: TRobertsRN [mailto:TRobertsRN@e...]
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 8:30 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] was Rubicon VS H2 NOW KIA's that might be taken
serious
http://global.kia.co.kr/vehicle/military/introduction.html
I am by no means a Kia fan but their military vehicles look a lot like
the old jeep full size. Check out the site above. Not sure if they are
available here.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Beckham" <jeepnut7261@h...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>; "Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 7:08 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
yes this is a fanatical jeep club, (wait while I wipe the foam from my
mouth)
but who would have thought the Zukes would get a following when they
first came out? I personally will give up my Jeep when they pry my cold
dead fingers off the steering wheel, but I also recognize the need for
other vehicles out there. How else would we be able to point out the
short-comings of others if they were not around to look down at? When I
wheel and occasionally look down to see what vehicle I'm driving over (I
think I'll invent a plexiglass floor so I can wave as I pass over those
poor pitiful vehicles and the whining misguided owners thereof) I am
thankful that I did not fall victim to the platitudes of blatantly false
advertising and buy something else that claims to be "as good as" my
Jeep. So when you see some poor soul show up with his KIA modified with
dana 60's and 35" tires, and ARB's, just remember, he was trying to copy
what we do with a JEEP!
Imitation is the most sincere type of flattery.
Thank You!
Michael (whyareyoulisteningtomeanyway) Beckham
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> Oops, sorry, I thought I posted my message to the Arizona Virtual JEEP
Club.
> Last I heard, most of us here were fanatics about Jeeps. Sure, Kia
> makes a good lil sport ute (and I mean that) but you can't compare it
> to a Jeep.
And
> if I was stuck and there were 7 Jeeps and 1 Kia Sportage around, I
> would first go to the Jeeps to ask for a tug. If there wasn't a Jeep
> around I would be very appreciative if the Kia would help. As for the
> god complex,
I
> think our Jeeps have earned the right to be revered as offroad titans,
don't
> you? They are in a class by themselves and no other manufacturer has
> anything comparible. Besides, every vehicle make has its fanatics. I
> have Toyota truck friends that feel the same way about Toyota that
> some of us feel about our Jeeps (there is NO way they want to be
> pulled out by a Jeep unless there is no other choice). Oh and getting
> stuck can be fun, too. Ya can't blame the Jeep for getting stuck.
> Anything can get stuck.
>
> And for the record, I don't like trying to compare a Jeep to a Hummer.
They
> are two WAY different vehicles. I don't think the H2 is intended for
> hardcore 4x4 action anyway. It's a neat rig and I personally would
> love to have one, but Jeep and Hummer cover two different markets in
> my opinion. Kind of like comparing a fullsize extended cab Ford 4x4 to
> a Jeep. Sure a lifted full size truck can go through 4 feet of snow
> but it doesn't rock crawl well.
>
> Lastly, I've seen several stock Jeeps from the club out there
> wheeling. My latest Jeep is mostly still stock and we wheel it all the
> time. Sorry I don't have $40,000 right now to drop in a Corvette
> engine, 39 inch tires
and
> locked Dana 60's all around.
>
> Oh and if anyway should get flamed it's Frank for instigating this
> whole argument by posting that picture :-).
>
> ---------------
> Bill Hooven
> Jeeps Only
> http://www.jeepsonly.com
> A Yahoo-style directory of Jeep links
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...>
> To: <jeepindog@y...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 4:30 PM
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> > Besides, how many of us wheel stock Jeeps anyway?
> >
> > Scott K
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...> [mailto:jeepindog@y...]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:12 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > KIA is not a bad manufacturer. In fact, they make some pretty
> > decent vehicles. Remember when a Honda was the cheapest piece of
> > ****e you could find on the road? (I do.) KIA never made a cheap
> > car, but they do make some very inexpensive cars. The fact that
> > they make one with a two-speed transfer case that did pretty well in
> > the 4x4 of the Year comparison (the actual 'wheelin part) that is
> > actually affordable and well-made should earn it some well-deserved
> > respect. Jeep Jeep Jeep. Don't you guys ever get tired of eating
> > the same thing for lunch? I will always own my Jeep, and love it
> > and all Jeeps. There are other vehicles out there that are very
> > good at some of the things that Jeeps are good at. Not *as* good,
> > but close. And if a Jeep driver just happens to get the Jeep stuck
> > (won't mention driver's ability) who cares who pulls it out? Maybe
> > DC should start charging extra for the God Complex that comes with
> > owning a Jeep!
> >
> > Lachlan
> >
> >
> > In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Clint Ramsey" <cwramsey@t...> wrote:
> > >
> > > I almost vomited when I opened that picture
> > >
> > > Clint
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
> > > To: Joe-CJ7@J...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> > > arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > Kia pulling TJ....
> > >
> > > (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com
> > oops
> > > section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
> > > sunday)
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76407 From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...> <jeepindog@y...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:53am
Subject: Die, Earth Cookies, Die!
Good article, John. Die, Earth Cookies, Die!!! (Hey Neal,
pretty cool, huh?)
Lachlan
In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, John Stewart <landuse@u...> wrote:
> http://www.boulderweekly.com/coverstory.html
>
> The compromised Sierra Club
> Once a bold defender of the planet, America's largest environmental
> group has become a cheap political prostitute
> - - - - - - - - - - - -
> by Ron Bain (Editorial@b...)
>
> Locally and nationally, the Sierra Club is dying. It has a pulse,
but
> has lost its wit, forgotten who it is and has no idea what it
stands
> for...
76408 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:54am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2
Keith,
Sorry I neglected to mention until this morning when I logged on that in
fact this was a set up photo. I figured that most would see the humor in
this photo.
As for the driver ability, I dont know who posted that, but I will atest
that ANY driver would have gotten stuck in that muck with your current rig
set up. After seing you get stuck, I didnt attempt it (even with 35's and
locked front and rear). The wet clay is just too slick.
Also, even though many sat around watching. There were a lot of people
helping. (I even got to use my shovel for the first time digging out your
right rear tire).
You were a good sport to let them take the pic. Its people like you that
make wheelin fun and I hope this doesnt get you too "down" on the club.
Thanks
Frank
BadAzXJ@m...
>From: "Michael Beckham" <jeepnut7261@h...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>,<kdberanek@c...>
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:25:28 -0700
>
>Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. The reason I'm in the VJC is due
>to
>my experience with this and other club members.
>I had run into other groups, and was treated poorly (bad language, bad
>attitudes just all around the typical stereotype that non-jeepers expect)
>but when I was doing Crown King for the first time, I ran into a group from
>VJC. they invited me to join the run, and really made myself and my family
>(most important, it's a family thing) feel welcome.
>As for the gears, I re-geared to 4.56's and am VERY happy. I run 33's, and
>it is a good match with the 5-speed IMO.
>If you call Desert rat in Peoria (19th ave) they use Kong for gears. The
>service was excellent, and they stand behind their work. Sorry I don't
>have
>a number.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <kdberanek@c...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:58 PM
>Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> >
> > I was the driver of the TJ that got stuck the KIA strapped to it was
> > a joke. It actually took two jeap with winches and two or three more
> > as anchors to pull me out. It was more like wet clay than mud. I
> > want to thank those who lended a hand put I gotta say most "club"
> > members that were there were quite content to sit in lawn chairs next
> > to their jeeps and watch. In fact a few actually got mad because of
> > the time it took to pull me out. Fortunately this is not the first
> > club run I have been on or I would probably not go on one again.
> > Some of the comments made to me were pretty bad. I got the jeep 3
> > months ago and while it is no rock crawling monster I'm proud of it.
> > I won't comment to much on the driver ability part. Put I have 20
> > years of off road driving experience. Granted not in a TJ will take
> > sometime and a few more trips to totally get a feel for it's
> > ability. Driver error was thinking a totally open jeep with 3.07
> > gears and 33in tires could go thru what appeared to be a very shallow
> > mud hole that turned out was over 2 feet deep. BTW speaking of
> > gearing I just obtained a set of gears and carriers from a club
> > member but need help getting them put in. Any volunteers? or
> > recommendations on where to go and approximate cost. Cost is for
> > help from club member too.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...> wrote:
> > > Besides, how many of us wheel stock Jeeps anyway?
> > >
> > > Scott K
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...> [mailto:jeepindog@y...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:12 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > KIA is not a bad manufacturer. In fact, they make some pretty
> > > decent vehicles. Remember when a Honda was the cheapest piece of
> > > ****e you could find on the road? (I do.) KIA never made a cheap
> > > car, but they do make some very inexpensive cars. The fact that
> > they
> > > make one with a two-speed transfer case that did pretty well in the
> > > 4x4 of the Year comparison (the actual 'wheelin part) that is
> > > actually affordable and well-made should earn it some well-deserved
> > > respect. Jeep Jeep Jeep. Don't you guys ever get tired of eating
> > > the same thing for lunch? I will always own my Jeep, and love it
> > and
> > > all Jeeps. There are other vehicles out there that are very good
> > at
> > > some of the things that Jeeps are good at. Not *as* good, but
> > > close. And if a Jeep driver just happens to get the Jeep stuck
> > > (won't mention driver's ability) who cares who pulls it out? Maybe
> > > DC should start charging extra for the God Complex that comes with
> > > owning a Jeep!
> > >
> > > Lachlan
> > >
> > >
> > > In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Clint Ramsey" <cwramsey@t...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I almost vomited when I opened that picture
> > > >
> > > > Clint
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
> > > > To: Joe-CJ7@J...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kia pulling TJ....
> > > >
> > > > (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com
> > > oops
> > > > section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
> > > > sunday)
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@J...>
> > > > >To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
> > > > >
> > > > >Frank,
> > > > >
> > > > >Where can I find the pictures?
> > > > >
> > > > >Joe Kearney
> > > > >Joe-CJ7@J...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
> > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ
> > side......
> > > > > > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too
> > bad...... :) The
> > >
> > > > > > nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people
> > > > just
> > > > >say
> > > > > > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I
> > get
> > > my
> > > > junk
> > > > > > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > > > > > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few
> > > good
> > > > >shots
> > > > >of
> > > > > > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from
> > > > Sunday).....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Frank
> > > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> > > > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig. I
> > love
> > > > > > >my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The
> > > H2
> > > > would
> > > > >be
> > > > > > >ok
> > > > > > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for
> > > free...I'd
> > > >
> > > > >sell
> > > > >it
> > > > > > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Martin
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP
> > > magazine
> > > > doing
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand
> > > due to
> > > > the
> > > > > > >rubicons
> > > > > > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the
> > > stupid
> > > > IFS,
> > > > >I
> > > > > > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday
> > anyway. I
> > > > have
> > > > >kids
> > > > > > >that
> > > > > > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without
> > worrying
> > > > about
> > > > > > >people
> > > > > > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear.
> > > Plus I
> > > > like
> > > > >my
> > > > > > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound
> > > system.
> > > > >Before
> > > > > > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will
> > admit
> > > that
> > > > a
> > > > >stock
> > > > > > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and
> > cash
> > > into
> > > > my
> > > > >rig
> > > > > > >to
> > > > > > > > hang in.
> > > > > > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be
> > > too
> > > > wide
> > > > >but
> > > > > > >if
> > > > > > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just
> > pull a
> > > > rock
> > > > >buggy
> > > > > > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never
> > > engage
> > > > the
> > > > >locker
> > > > > > > > anyway)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Frank
> > > > > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > > > > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A
> > > Rubicon
> > > > gets
> > > > >31"
> > > > > > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room,
> > > > probably
> > > > > > > > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also
> > has a
> > > > bigger
> > > > > > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably
> > gets
> > > more
> > > > > > > > >envious looks (without a single modification) than most
> > > Jeeps
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really
> > > > matters...)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except
> > > under
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires.
> > That
> > > > "road
> > > > > > > > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me
> > nauseous.
> > > > What a
> > > > > > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a
> > > special
> > > > > > > > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit
> > with
> > > a
> > > > lack
> > > > >of
> > > > > > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground
> > up,
> > > and
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically
> > > only
> > > > >upgraded
> > > > > > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and
> > > rear
> > > > > > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some
> > > badass
> > > > > > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper
> > > use
> > > > of AL
> > > > > > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would
> > have a
> > > > hard
> > > > >time
> > > > > > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one?
> > > Ever
> > > > >ridden
> > > > > > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I
> > have
> > > > done
> > > > >all
> > > > > > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2
> > > might be
> > > > a
> > > > >fun
> > > > > > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s
> > > on
> > > > the H2
> > > > > > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep?
> > > > (Besides
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving
> > > other
> > > >
> > > > >rigs
> > > > > > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect.
> > Yeah,
> > > we
> > > > all
> > > > > > > > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne,
> > > would
> > > > you?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look
> > > at an
> > > > H-2
> > > > >in
> > > > > > > > >TX on
> > > > > > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards,
> > didnt
> > > look
> > > >
> > > > >like
> > > > > > > > >it was too
> > > > > > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance
> > > in the
> > > > >middle
> > > > > > > > >but none
> > > > > > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock
> > > ZJ
> > > > looks
> > > > > > > > >like it has
> > > > > > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon,
> > > I saw
> > > > one
> > > > >at
> > > > > > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that
> > > either
> > > > for
> > > > > > > > >the price,
> > > > > > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied
> > > with
> > > > my YJ
> > > > > > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > > > > > :-)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > > >
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76409 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:00am
Subject: RE: OT (?) Need a job to keep Jeep. If you can't help, please delete!
Russell,
Email me your resume.
Thanks,
Frank
BadAzXJ@m...
>From: "Joe-CJ7" <Joe-CJ7@j...>
>To: <gev39@y...>,<az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] OT (?) Need a job to keep Jeep. If you can't help,
>please delete!
>Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:19:16 -0700
>
>Russell,
>
>That sucks but we all have been there to some extent. If anyone would
>flame they should walk a mile in your shoes!!!
>
>I do not know of anything but maybe you can send me your resume and I
>will get it out there with everyone else.
>
>Joe Kearney
>Joe-CJ7@J...
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Russell Gevarter <gev39@y...> [mailto:gev39@y...]
>Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 6:49 PM
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] OT (?) Need a job to keep Jeep. If you can't help,
>please delete!
>
>
>Wife says the Jeep will have to go soon...I need help!
>I feel really bad asking this group for employment help, but you
>guys are about my only friends. I have avoided doing so for almost a
>year since I lost my job last March...
>But heres the situation: I have used up my savings, cashed out my
>401k, my wife's 401k, run up our credit cards to their limits,
>borrowed all of my mother's money. Right now I don't think we can
>pay mortgage next month, not to mention the other bills.
>
>I'm a Telephone/Data network technician with PBX and Central Office
>experience, also Cisco CCNA certified. I will be glad to send a
>resume, please e-mail me off-list.
>
>I pretty much expect to flamed for sending this, I can take it.
>Flame away!
>Russell Gevarter
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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76410 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:05am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2
I will be the first to admit that I wheeled with a zukie a few weeks back
that put my rig to shame......I love my jeep and will always have one, but
my next side project will probably be a zukie. You can pick one up dirt
cheap, the transfer cases can be run in series for low gearing (again
cheap), if you roll it bad enough- just take off your axles (which is where
all your money ends up going anyway), and throw it away and find another
one!
Frank
BadAzXJ@m...
BadAZZukie@m... ???????????????????????????????????????
>From: "Michael Beckham" <jeepnut7261@h...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>,"Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:08:58 -0700
>
>yes this is a fanatical jeep club, (wait while I wipe the foam from my
>mouth)
>but who would have thought the Zukes would get a following when they first
>came out?
>I personally will give up my Jeep when they pry my cold dead fingers off
>the
>steering wheel, but I also recognize the need for other vehicles out there.
>How else would we be able to point out the short-comings of others if they
>were not around to look down at?
>When I wheel and occasionally look down to see what vehicle I'm driving
>over
>(I think I'll invent a plexiglass floor so I can wave as I pass over those
>poor pitiful vehicles and the whining misguided owners thereof) I am
>thankful that I did not fall victim to the platitudes of blatantly false
>advertising and buy something else that claims to be "as good as" my Jeep.
>So when you see some poor soul show up with his KIA modified with dana 60's
>and 35" tires, and ARB's, just remember, he was trying to copy what we do
>with a JEEP!
>
>Imitation is the most sincere type of flattery.
>
>
>Thank You!
>Michael (whyareyoulisteningtomeanyway) Beckham
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:39 PM
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> > Oops, sorry, I thought I posted my message to the Arizona Virtual JEEP
>Club.
> > Last I heard, most of us here were fanatics about Jeeps. Sure, Kia makes
>a
> > good lil sport ute (and I mean that) but you can't compare it to a Jeep.
>And
> > if I was stuck and there were 7 Jeeps and 1 Kia Sportage around, I would
> > first go to the Jeeps to ask for a tug. If there wasn't a Jeep around I
> > would be very appreciative if the Kia would help. As for the god
>complex,
>I
> > think our Jeeps have earned the right to be revered as offroad titans,
>don't
> > you? They are in a class by themselves and no other manufacturer has
> > anything comparible. Besides, every vehicle make has its fanatics. I
>have
> > Toyota truck friends that feel the same way about Toyota that some of us
> > feel about our Jeeps (there is NO way they want to be pulled out by a
>Jeep
> > unless there is no other choice). Oh and getting stuck can be fun, too.
>Ya
> > can't blame the Jeep for getting stuck. Anything can get stuck.
> >
> > And for the record, I don't like trying to compare a Jeep to a Hummer.
>They
> > are two WAY different vehicles. I don't think the H2 is intended for
> > hardcore 4x4 action anyway. It's a neat rig and I personally would love
>to
> > have one, but Jeep and Hummer cover two different markets in my opinion.
> > Kind of like comparing a fullsize extended cab Ford 4x4 to a Jeep. Sure
>a
> > lifted full size truck can go through 4 feet of snow but it doesn't rock
> > crawl well.
> >
> > Lastly, I've seen several stock Jeeps from the club out there wheeling.
>My
> > latest Jeep is mostly still stock and we wheel it all the time. Sorry I
> > don't have $40,000 right now to drop in a Corvette engine, 39 inch tires
>and
> > locked Dana 60's all around.
> >
> > Oh and if anyway should get flamed it's Frank for instigating this whole
> > argument by posting that picture :-).
> >
> > ---------------
> > Bill Hooven
> > Jeeps Only
> > http://www.jeepsonly.com
> > A Yahoo-style directory of Jeep links
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...>
> > To: <jeepindog@y...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 4:30 PM
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > > Besides, how many of us wheel stock Jeeps anyway?
> > >
> > > Scott K
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...> [mailto:jeepindog@y...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:12 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > KIA is not a bad manufacturer. In fact, they make some pretty
> > > decent vehicles. Remember when a Honda was the cheapest piece of
> > > ****e you could find on the road? (I do.) KIA never made a cheap
> > > car, but they do make some very inexpensive cars. The fact that they
> > > make one with a two-speed transfer case that did pretty well in the
> > > 4x4 of the Year comparison (the actual 'wheelin part) that is
> > > actually affordable and well-made should earn it some well-deserved
> > > respect. Jeep Jeep Jeep. Don't you guys ever get tired of eating
> > > the same thing for lunch? I will always own my Jeep, and love it and
> > > all Jeeps. There are other vehicles out there that are very good at
> > > some of the things that Jeeps are good at. Not *as* good, but
> > > close. And if a Jeep driver just happens to get the Jeep stuck
> > > (won't mention driver's ability) who cares who pulls it out? Maybe
> > > DC should start charging extra for the God Complex that comes with
> > > owning a Jeep!
> > >
> > > Lachlan
> > >
> > >
> > > In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Clint Ramsey" <cwramsey@t...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I almost vomited when I opened that picture
> > > >
> > > > Clint
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
> > > > To: Joe-CJ7@J...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kia pulling TJ....
> > > >
> > > > (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com
> > > oops
> > > > section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
> > > > sunday)
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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76411 From: Richard Logan <rlogan@d...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:17am
Subject: Fw: YJ Dreaming
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Logan
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 9:40 AM
Subject: YJ Dreaming
As I went to bed last and started to fall asleep
In my head I started the to think about all the threads about hummers, toyota and jeeps
Then all of sudden I was all locked up and started to creep
So off I went all twisted up to crawl my jeep to the very top
When I reach the summit their I did stop
Then I looked far far below to see what I could see
There were all the hummers and such looking up at the jeep and me
then all of a sudden the ground began to rumble
I looked back in amazment and glee as jeeps of all sorts had wheeled to the top to see
then all of a sudden their was such a chatter
About jeeps and things that really matter
When all of a sudden it was as if the earth was shak'in
My eyes popped wide open and there was my sweet wife looking down upon me
Then she softly began to speak
honey i can't take any more about jeeps
you talk about them even in your sleep
I looked into her eyes, i said honey your right
so tommorow we will go to mall or a show
This is where all the other hummers and 4x4 go
So with this we hugged and kissed
She was not so very pi##ed !
so as we both feel back off to sleep
Back came the dreams of my YJ Jeep
Rick logan 92 YJ
76412 From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...> <jeepindog@y...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:12am
Subject: Re: Rubicon VS H2
I made mention of the driver's ability, and meant it just like
you explained. I don't think it had anything to do with the driver,
instead it was the Jeep. Not too many rigs of any brand can drive
through two foot deep wet clay. But if any 4x4 CAN, it must be a
Jeep!
Lachlan
In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...> wrote:
>
> Keith,
>
> Sorry I neglected to mention until this morning when I logged on
that in
> fact this was a set up photo. I figured that most would see the
humor in
> this photo.
>
> As for the driver ability, I dont know who posted that, but I will
atest
> that ANY driver would have gotten stuck in that muck with your
current rig
> set up. After seing you get stuck, I didnt attempt it (even with
35's and
> locked front and rear). The wet clay is just too slick.
>
> Also, even though many sat around watching. There were a lot of
people
> helping. (I even got to use my shovel for the first time digging
out your
> right rear tire).
>
> You were a good sport to let them take the pic. Its people like
you that
> make wheelin fun and I hope this doesnt get you too "down" on the
club.
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
> BadAzXJ@m...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Michael Beckham" <jeepnut7261@h...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>,<kdberanek@c...>
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:25:28 -0700
> >
> >Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. The reason I'm in the VJC
is due
> >to
> >my experience with this and other club members.
> >I had run into other groups, and was treated poorly (bad language,
bad
> >attitudes just all around the typical stereotype that non-jeepers
expect)
> >but when I was doing Crown King for the first time, I ran into a
group from
> >VJC. they invited me to join the run, and really made myself and
my family
> >(most important, it's a family thing) feel welcome.
> >As for the gears, I re-geared to 4.56's and am VERY happy. I run
33's, and
> >it is a good match with the 5-speed IMO.
> >If you call Desert rat in Peoria (19th ave) they use Kong for
gears. The
> >service was excellent, and they stand behind their work. Sorry I
don't
> >have
> >a number.
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <kdberanek@c...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:58 PM
> >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I was the driver of the TJ that got stuck the KIA strapped to
it was
> > > a joke. It actually took two jeap with winches and two or
three more
> > > as anchors to pull me out. It was more like wet clay than mud.
I
> > > want to thank those who lended a hand put I gotta say
most "club"
> > > members that were there were quite content to sit in lawn
chairs next
> > > to their jeeps and watch. In fact a few actually got mad
because of
> > > the time it took to pull me out. Fortunately this is not the
first
> > > club run I have been on or I would probably not go on one again.
> > > Some of the comments made to me were pretty bad. I got the jeep
3
> > > months ago and while it is no rock crawling monster I'm proud
of it.
> > > I won't comment to much on the driver ability part. Put I have
20
> > > years of off road driving experience. Granted not in a TJ will
take
> > > sometime and a few more trips to totally get a feel for it's
> > > ability. Driver error was thinking a totally open jeep with
3.07
> > > gears and 33in tires could go thru what appeared to be a very
shallow
> > > mud hole that turned out was over 2 feet deep. BTW speaking of
> > > gearing I just obtained a set of gears and carriers from a club
> > > member but need help getting them put in. Any volunteers? or
> > > recommendations on where to go and approximate cost. Cost is
for
> > > help from club member too.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...>
wrote:
> > > > Besides, how many of us wheel stock Jeeps anyway?
> > > >
> > > > Scott K
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...> [mailto:jeepindog@y...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:12 PM
> > > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > KIA is not a bad manufacturer. In fact, they make some
pretty
> > > > decent vehicles. Remember when a Honda was the cheapest
piece of
> > > > ****e you could find on the road? (I do.) KIA never made a
cheap
> > > > car, but they do make some very inexpensive cars. The fact
that
> > > they
> > > > make one with a two-speed transfer case that did pretty well
in the
> > > > 4x4 of the Year comparison (the actual 'wheelin part) that is
> > > > actually affordable and well-made should earn it some well-
deserved
> > > > respect. Jeep Jeep Jeep. Don't you guys ever get tired of
eating
> > > > the same thing for lunch? I will always own my Jeep, and
love it
> > > and
> > > > all Jeeps. There are other vehicles out there that are very
good
> > > at
> > > > some of the things that Jeeps are good at. Not *as* good, but
> > > > close. And if a Jeep driver just happens to get the Jeep
stuck
> > > > (won't mention driver's ability) who cares who pulls it out?
Maybe
> > > > DC should start charging extra for the God Complex that comes
with
> > > > owning a Jeep!
> > > >
> > > > Lachlan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Clint Ramsey" <cwramsey@t...>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I almost vomited when I opened that picture
> > > > >
> > > > > Clint
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
> > > > > To: Joe-CJ7@J...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > > arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Kia pulling TJ....
> > > > >
> > > > > (if you cant get the attachment, its in the
www.azbackcountry.com
> > > > oops
> > > > > section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips
page from
> > > > > sunday)
> > > > >
> > > > > Frank
> > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@J...>
> > > > > >To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Frank,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Where can I find the pictures?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Joe Kearney
> > > > > >Joe-CJ7@J...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ
> > > side......
> > > > > > > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be
too.....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too
> > > bad...... :) The
> > > >
> > > > > > > nice thing about a rig like that is if you get
stuck..people
> > > > > just
> > > > > >say
> > > > > > > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4."
But I
> > > get
> > > > my
> > > > > junk
> > > > > > > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > > > > > > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we
got a few
> > > > good
> > > > > >shots
> > > > > >of
> > > > > > > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics
from
> > > > > Sunday).....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Frank
> > > > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> > > > > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy
rig. I
> > > love
> > > > > > > >my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The
> > > > H2
> > > > > would
> > > > > >be
> > > > > > > >ok
> > > > > > > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2
for
> > > > free...I'd
> > > > >
> > > > > >sell
> > > > > >it
> > > > > > > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Martin
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > > > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP
> > > > magazine
> > > > > doing
> > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the
sand
> > > > due to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > >rubicons
> > > > > > > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt
have the
> > > > stupid
> > > > > IFS,
> > > > > >I
> > > > > > > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday
> > > anyway. I
> > > > > have
> > > > > >kids
> > > > > > > >that
> > > > > > > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without
> > > worrying
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > >people
> > > > > > > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my
gear.
> > > > Plus I
> > > > > like
> > > > > >my
> > > > > > > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a
sound
> > > > system.
> > > > > >Before
> > > > > > > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I
will
> > > admit
> > > > that
> > > > > a
> > > > > >stock
> > > > > > > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time
and
> > > cash
> > > > into
> > > > > my
> > > > > >rig
> > > > > > > >to
> > > > > > > > > hang in.
> > > > > > > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that
might be
> > > > too
> > > > > wide
> > > > > >but
> > > > > > > >if
> > > > > > > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can
just
> > > pull a
> > > > > rock
> > > > > >buggy
> > > > > > > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will
never
> > > > engage
> > > > > the
> > > > > >locker
> > > > > > > > > anyway)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Frank
> > > > > > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > > > > > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't
it? A
> > > > Rubicon
> > > > > gets
> > > > > >31"
> > > > > > > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger
room,
> > > > > probably
> > > > > > > > > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It
also
> > > has a
> > > > > bigger
> > > > > > > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and
probably
> > > gets
> > > > more
> > > > > > > > > >envious looks (without a single modification) than
most
> > > > Jeeps
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention
really
> > > > > matters...)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal,
except
> > > > under
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller
tires.
> > > That
> > > > > "road
> > > > > > > > > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me
> > > nauseous.
> > > > > What a
> > > > > > > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to
take a
> > > > special
> > > > > > > > > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little
bit
> > > with
> > > > a
> > > > > lack
> > > > > >of
> > > > > > > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the
ground
> > > up,
> > > > and
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model;
basically
> > > > only
> > > > > >upgraded
> > > > > > > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44,
front and
> > > > rear
> > > > > > > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and
some
> > > > badass
> > > > > > > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an
improper
> > > > use
> > > > > of AL
> > > > > > > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL
tierod...) :)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I
would
> > > have a
> > > > > hard
> > > > > >time
> > > > > > > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in
one?
> > > > Ever
> > > > > >ridden
> > > > > > > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither.
But I
> > > have
> > > > > done
> > > > > >all
> > > > > > > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and
the H2
> > > > might be
> > > > > a
> > > > > >fun
> > > > > > > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will
ft 38s
> > > > on
> > > > > the H2
> > > > > > > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a
Jeep?
> > > > > (Besides
> > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start
giving
> > > > other
> > > > >
> > > > > >rigs
> > > > > > > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect.
> > > Yeah,
> > > > we
> > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche
Cayenne,
> > > > would
> > > > > you?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life"
MacLean
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a
good look
> > > > at an
> > > > > H-2
> > > > > >in
> > > > > > > > > >TX on
> > > > > > > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running
boards,
> > > didnt
> > > > look
> > > > >
> > > > > >like
> > > > > > > > > >it was too
> > > > > > > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice
clearance
> > > > in the
> > > > > >middle
> > > > > > > > > >but none
> > > > > > > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to
be stock
> > > > ZJ
> > > > > looks
> > > > > > > > > >like it has
> > > > > > > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the
Rubicon,
> > > > I saw
> > > > > one
> > > > > >at
> > > > > > > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed
with that
> > > > either
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > >the price,
> > > > > > > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly
satisfied
> > > > with
> > > > > my YJ
> > > > > > > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > > > > > > :-)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
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76413 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:26am
Subject: [FS] Best Top YJ flares, Spare tire cover, light weight hitch & Bumperetts
Price: $10-$100
Contact: Duntov@worldnet.att.net or phone (602)-867-8027
Best Top flares New In the Box Prt# 49247, Best Top Tire cover (black) new in the box Prt # 61033-15, Hitch is light weight flat 5/8" - 3/4" Steel, stock bumperettes
Steve Wise
76414 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:37am
Subject: [FS] Lift springs - wrangler rear
Price: $100 (pair)
Contact: steve 602-482-2428
Superlift wrangler rear 3" springs
Steve Olney
76415 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:39am
Subject: [FS] Automatic trans +adapter
Price: $500
Contact: Steve 602-482-2428
freshly built 727 automatic with adapter to 300 transfercase
Steve Olney
76416 From: Trujillo, Jeff <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:25am
Subject: RE: Re: Rubicon VS H2
I have to agree with Frank. I was there when the sukie made everyone gasp
and say "wholly s**t". They did an awesome job climbing anything they came
up too. If I had the money I would build one for the heck of it :o) But
still keep the JEEP!
Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice:(480)346-6249
Fax:(480)346-6813
-----Original Message-----
From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 10:05 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
I will be the first to admit that I wheeled with a zukie a few weeks back
that put my rig to shame......I love my jeep and will always have one, but
my next side project will probably be a zukie. You can pick one up dirt
cheap, the transfer cases can be run in series for low gearing (again
cheap), if you roll it bad enough- just take off your axles (which is where
all your money ends up going anyway), and throw it away and find another
one!
Frank
BadAzXJ@m...
BadAZZukie@m... ???????????????????????????????????????
>From: "Michael Beckham" <jeepnut7261@h...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>,"Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:08:58 -0700
>
>yes this is a fanatical jeep club, (wait while I wipe the foam from my
>mouth)
>but who would have thought the Zukes would get a following when they first
>came out?
>I personally will give up my Jeep when they pry my cold dead fingers off
>the
>steering wheel, but I also recognize the need for other vehicles out there.
>How else would we be able to point out the short-comings of others if they
>were not around to look down at?
>When I wheel and occasionally look down to see what vehicle I'm driving
>over
>(I think I'll invent a plexiglass floor so I can wave as I pass over those
>poor pitiful vehicles and the whining misguided owners thereof) I am
>thankful that I did not fall victim to the platitudes of blatantly false
>advertising and buy something else that claims to be "as good as" my Jeep.
>So when you see some poor soul show up with his KIA modified with dana 60's
>and 35" tires, and ARB's, just remember, he was trying to copy what we do
>with a JEEP!
>
>Imitation is the most sincere type of flattery.
>
>
>Thank You!
>Michael (whyareyoulisteningtomeanyway) Beckham
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:39 PM
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> > Oops, sorry, I thought I posted my message to the Arizona Virtual JEEP
>Club.
> > Last I heard, most of us here were fanatics about Jeeps. Sure, Kia makes
>a
> > good lil sport ute (and I mean that) but you can't compare it to a Jeep.
>And
> > if I was stuck and there were 7 Jeeps and 1 Kia Sportage around, I would
> > first go to the Jeeps to ask for a tug. If there wasn't a Jeep around I
> > would be very appreciative if the Kia would help. As for the god
>complex,
>I
> > think our Jeeps have earned the right to be revered as offroad titans,
>don't
> > you? They are in a class by themselves and no other manufacturer has
> > anything comparible. Besides, every vehicle make has its fanatics. I
>have
> > Toyota truck friends that feel the same way about Toyota that some of us
> > feel about our Jeeps (there is NO way they want to be pulled out by a
>Jeep
> > unless there is no other choice). Oh and getting stuck can be fun, too.
>Ya
> > can't blame the Jeep for getting stuck. Anything can get stuck.
> >
> > And for the record, I don't like trying to compare a Jeep to a Hummer.
>They
> > are two WAY different vehicles. I don't think the H2 is intended for
> > hardcore 4x4 action anyway. It's a neat rig and I personally would love
>to
> > have one, but Jeep and Hummer cover two different markets in my opinion.
> > Kind of like comparing a fullsize extended cab Ford 4x4 to a Jeep. Sure
>a
> > lifted full size truck can go through 4 feet of snow but it doesn't rock
> > crawl well.
> >
> > Lastly, I've seen several stock Jeeps from the club out there wheeling.
>My
> > latest Jeep is mostly still stock and we wheel it all the time. Sorry I
> > don't have $40,000 right now to drop in a Corvette engine, 39 inch tires
>and
> > locked Dana 60's all around.
> >
> > Oh and if anyway should get flamed it's Frank for instigating this whole
> > argument by posting that picture :-).
> >
> > ---------------
> > Bill Hooven
> > Jeeps Only
> > http://www.jeepsonly.com
> > A Yahoo-style directory of Jeep links
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...>
> > To: <jeepindog@y...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 4:30 PM
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > > Besides, how many of us wheel stock Jeeps anyway?
> > >
> > > Scott K
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...> [mailto:jeepindog@y...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:12 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > KIA is not a bad manufacturer. In fact, they make some pretty
> > > decent vehicles. Remember when a Honda was the cheapest piece of
> > > ****e you could find on the road? (I do.) KIA never made a cheap
> > > car, but they do make some very inexpensive cars. The fact that they
> > > make one with a two-speed transfer case that did pretty well in the
> > > 4x4 of the Year comparison (the actual 'wheelin part) that is
> > > actually affordable and well-made should earn it some well-deserved
> > > respect. Jeep Jeep Jeep. Don't you guys ever get tired of eating
> > > the same thing for lunch? I will always own my Jeep, and love it and
> > > all Jeeps. There are other vehicles out there that are very good at
> > > some of the things that Jeeps are good at. Not *as* good, but
> > > close. And if a Jeep driver just happens to get the Jeep stuck
> > > (won't mention driver's ability) who cares who pulls it out? Maybe
> > > DC should start charging extra for the God Complex that comes with
> > > owning a Jeep!
> > >
> > > Lachlan
> > >
> > >
> > > In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Clint Ramsey" <cwramsey@t...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I almost vomited when I opened that picture
> > > >
> > > > Clint
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
> > > > To: Joe-CJ7@J...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kia pulling TJ....
> > > >
> > > > (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com
> > > oops
> > > > section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
> > > > sunday)
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
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contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
76417 From: Beatriz Galsim <bgalsim@y...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:52am
Subject: RE: Re: Rubicon VS H2
That's kinda scary to hear about a sukie...wish I had
been there to see that.
BEA
--- "Trujillo, Jeff" <jeff.trujillo@m...>
wrote:
> I have to agree with Frank. I was there when the
> sukie made everyone gasp
> and say "wholly s**t". They did an awesome job
> climbing anything they came
> up too. If I had the money I would build one for the
> heck of it :o) But
> still keep the JEEP!
>
> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> Field Service Representative
> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> jeff.trujillo@m...
> Voice:(480)346-6249
> Fax:(480)346-6813
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 10:05 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
>
> I will be the first to admit that I wheeled with a
> zukie a few weeks back
> that put my rig to shame......I love my jeep and
> will always have one, but
> my next side project will probably be a zukie. You
> can pick one up dirt
> cheap, the transfer cases can be run in series for
> low gearing (again
> cheap), if you roll it bad enough- just take off
> your axles (which is where
> all your money ends up going anyway), and throw it
> away and find another
> one!
>
> Frank
> BadAzXJ@m...
> BadAZZukie@m...
> ???????????????????????????????????????
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Michael Beckham" <jeepnut7261@h...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>,"Bill - Jeeps Only"
> <bill@j...>
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:08:58 -0700
> >
> >yes this is a fanatical jeep club, (wait while I
> wipe the foam from my
> >mouth)
> >but who would have thought the Zukes would get a
> following when they first
> >came out?
> >I personally will give up my Jeep when they pry my
> cold dead fingers off
> >the
> >steering wheel, but I also recognize the need for
> other vehicles out there.
> >How else would we be able to point out the
> short-comings of others if they
> >were not around to look down at?
> >When I wheel and occasionally look down to see what
> vehicle I'm driving
> >over
> >(I think I'll invent a plexiglass floor so I can
> wave as I pass over those
> >poor pitiful vehicles and the whining misguided
> owners thereof) I am
> >thankful that I did not fall victim to the
> platitudes of blatantly false
> >advertising and buy something else that claims to
> be "as good as" my Jeep.
> >So when you see some poor soul show up with his KIA
> modified with dana 60's
> >and 35" tires, and ARB's, just remember, he was
> trying to copy what we do
> >with a JEEP!
> >
> >Imitation is the most sincere type of flattery.
> >
> >
> >Thank You!
> >Michael (whyareyoulisteningtomeanyway) Beckham
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:39 PM
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > > Oops, sorry, I thought I posted my message to
> the Arizona Virtual JEEP
> >Club.
> > > Last I heard, most of us here were fanatics
> about Jeeps. Sure, Kia makes
>
> >a
> > > good lil sport ute (and I mean that) but you
> can't compare it to a Jeep.
> >And
> > > if I was stuck and there were 7 Jeeps and 1 Kia
> Sportage around, I would
> > > first go to the Jeeps to ask for a tug. If there
> wasn't a Jeep around I
> > > would be very appreciative if the Kia would
> help. As for the god
> >complex,
> >I
> > > think our Jeeps have earned the right to be
> revered as offroad titans,
> >don't
> > > you? They are in a class by themselves and no
> other manufacturer has
> > > anything comparible. Besides, every vehicle make
> has its fanatics. I
> >have
> > > Toyota truck friends that feel the same way
> about Toyota that some of us
> > > feel about our Jeeps (there is NO way they want
> to be pulled out by a
> >Jeep
> > > unless there is no other choice). Oh and getting
> stuck can be fun, too.
> >Ya
> > > can't blame the Jeep for getting stuck. Anything
> can get stuck.
> > >
> > > And for the record, I don't like trying to
> compare a Jeep to a Hummer.
> >They
> > > are two WAY different vehicles. I don't think
> the H2 is intended for
> > > hardcore 4x4 action anyway. It's a neat rig and
> I personally would love
> >to
> > > have one, but Jeep and Hummer cover two
> different markets in my opinion.
> > > Kind of like comparing a fullsize extended cab
> Ford 4x4 to a Jeep. Sure
> >a
> > > lifted full size truck can go through 4 feet of
> snow but it doesn't rock
> > > crawl well.
> > >
> > > Lastly, I've seen several stock Jeeps from the
> club out there wheeling.
> >My
> > > latest Jeep is mostly still stock and we wheel
> it all the time. Sorry I
> > > don't have $40,000 right now to drop in a
> Corvette engine, 39 inch tires
> >and
> > > locked Dana 60's all around.
> > >
> > > Oh and if anyway should get flamed it's Frank
> for instigating this whole
> > > argument by posting that picture :-).
> > >
> > > ---------------
> > > Bill Hooven
> > > Jeeps Only
> > > http://www.jeepsonly.com
> > > A Yahoo-style directory of Jeep links
> > >
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...>
> > > To: <jeepindog@y...>;
> <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 4:30 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > > Besides, how many of us wheel stock Jeeps
> anyway?
> > > >
> > > > Scott K
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>
> [mailto:jeepindog@y...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:12 PM
> > > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > KIA is not a bad manufacturer. In fact,
> they make some pretty
> > > > decent vehicles. Remember when a Honda was
> the cheapest piece of
> > > > ****e you could find on the road? (I do.)
> KIA never made a cheap
>
=== message truncated ===
=====
"Silly boys, JEEPs are for girls!"
__________________________________________________
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76418 From: Trujillo, Jeff <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:38am
Subject: RE: Re: Rubicon VS H2
It was an awesome sight. One of them had air bags so whenever he felt like
it he would flip a switch and either air up or down a bag and looked like he
had hydraulics like the lowriders. It was pretty impressive to say the
least!
Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice:(480)346-6249
Fax:(480)346-6813
-----Original Message-----
From: Beatriz Galsim [mailto:bgalsim@y...]
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 10:53 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
That's kinda scary to hear about a sukie...wish I had
been there to see that.
BEA
--- "Trujillo, Jeff" <jeff.trujillo@m...>
wrote:
> I have to agree with Frank. I was there when the
> sukie made everyone gasp
> and say "wholly s**t". They did an awesome job
> climbing anything they came
> up too. If I had the money I would build one for the
> heck of it :o) But
> still keep the JEEP!
>
> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> Field Service Representative
> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> jeff.trujillo@m...
> Voice:(480)346-6249
> Fax:(480)346-6813
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 10:05 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
>
> I will be the first to admit that I wheeled with a
> zukie a few weeks back
> that put my rig to shame......I love my jeep and
> will always have one, but
> my next side project will probably be a zukie. You
> can pick one up dirt
> cheap, the transfer cases can be run in series for
> low gearing (again
> cheap), if you roll it bad enough- just take off
> your axles (which is where
> all your money ends up going anyway), and throw it
> away and find another
> one!
>
> Frank
> BadAzXJ@m...
> BadAZZukie@m...
> ???????????????????????????????????????
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Michael Beckham" <jeepnut7261@h...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>,"Bill - Jeeps Only"
> <bill@j...>
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:08:58 -0700
> >
> >yes this is a fanatical jeep club, (wait while I
> wipe the foam from my
> >mouth)
> >but who would have thought the Zukes would get a
> following when they first
> >came out?
> >I personally will give up my Jeep when they pry my
> cold dead fingers off
> >the
> >steering wheel, but I also recognize the need for
> other vehicles out there.
> >How else would we be able to point out the
> short-comings of others if they
> >were not around to look down at?
> >When I wheel and occasionally look down to see what
> vehicle I'm driving
> >over
> >(I think I'll invent a plexiglass floor so I can
> wave as I pass over those
> >poor pitiful vehicles and the whining misguided
> owners thereof) I am
> >thankful that I did not fall victim to the
> platitudes of blatantly false
> >advertising and buy something else that claims to
> be "as good as" my Jeep.
> >So when you see some poor soul show up with his KIA
> modified with dana 60's
> >and 35" tires, and ARB's, just remember, he was
> trying to copy what we do
> >with a JEEP!
> >
> >Imitation is the most sincere type of flattery.
> >
> >
> >Thank You!
> >Michael (whyareyoulisteningtomeanyway) Beckham
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:39 PM
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > > Oops, sorry, I thought I posted my message to
> the Arizona Virtual JEEP
> >Club.
> > > Last I heard, most of us here were fanatics
> about Jeeps. Sure, Kia makes
>
> >a
> > > good lil sport ute (and I mean that) but you
> can't compare it to a Jeep.
> >And
> > > if I was stuck and there were 7 Jeeps and 1 Kia
> Sportage around, I would
> > > first go to the Jeeps to ask for a tug. If there
> wasn't a Jeep around I
> > > would be very appreciative if the Kia would
> help. As for the god
> >complex,
> >I
> > > think our Jeeps have earned the right to be
> revered as offroad titans,
> >don't
> > > you? They are in a class by themselves and no
> other manufacturer has
> > > anything comparible. Besides, every vehicle make
> has its fanatics. I
> >have
> > > Toyota truck friends that feel the same way
> about Toyota that some of us
> > > feel about our Jeeps (there is NO way they want
> to be pulled out by a
> >Jeep
> > > unless there is no other choice). Oh and getting
> stuck can be fun, too.
> >Ya
> > > can't blame the Jeep for getting stuck. Anything
> can get stuck.
> > >
> > > And for the record, I don't like trying to
> compare a Jeep to a Hummer.
> >They
> > > are two WAY different vehicles. I don't think
> the H2 is intended for
> > > hardcore 4x4 action anyway. It's a neat rig and
> I personally would love
> >to
> > > have one, but Jeep and Hummer cover two
> different markets in my opinion.
> > > Kind of like comparing a fullsize extended cab
> Ford 4x4 to a Jeep. Sure
> >a
> > > lifted full size truck can go through 4 feet of
> snow but it doesn't rock
> > > crawl well.
> > >
> > > Lastly, I've seen several stock Jeeps from the
> club out there wheeling.
> >My
> > > latest Jeep is mostly still stock and we wheel
> it all the time. Sorry I
> > > don't have $40,000 right now to drop in a
> Corvette engine, 39 inch tires
> >and
> > > locked Dana 60's all around.
> > >
> > > Oh and if anyway should get flamed it's Frank
> for instigating this whole
> > > argument by posting that picture :-).
> > >
> > > ---------------
> > > Bill Hooven
> > > Jeeps Only
> > > http://www.jeepsonly.com
> > > A Yahoo-style directory of Jeep links
> > >
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...>
> > > To: <jeepindog@y...>;
> <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 4:30 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > > Besides, how many of us wheel stock Jeeps
> anyway?
> > > >
> > > > Scott K
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>
> [mailto:jeepindog@y...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:12 PM
> > > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > KIA is not a bad manufacturer. In fact,
> they make some pretty
> > > > decent vehicles. Remember when a Honda was
> the cheapest piece of
> > > > ****e you could find on the road? (I do.)
> KIA never made a cheap
>
=== message truncated ===
=====
"Silly boys, JEEPs are for girls!"
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
76419 From: Beatriz Galsim <bgalsim@y...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 10:02am
Subject: RE: Re: Rubicon VS H2
LOL...Man I totally missed it. Lowrider style huh?!
LOL...LOL...sounds impressive.
Bea
--- "Trujillo, Jeff" <jeff.trujillo@m...>
wrote:
> It was an awesome sight. One of them had air bags so
> whenever he felt like
> it he would flip a switch and either air up or down
> a bag and looked like he
> had hydraulics like the lowriders. It was pretty
> impressive to say the
> least!
>
> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> Field Service Representative
> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> jeff.trujillo@m...
> Voice:(480)346-6249
> Fax:(480)346-6813
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Beatriz Galsim [mailto:bgalsim@y...]
> Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 10:53 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> That's kinda scary to hear about a sukie...wish I
> had
> been there to see that.
> BEA
> --- "Trujillo, Jeff"
> <jeff.trujillo@m...>
> wrote:
> > I have to agree with Frank. I was there when the
> > sukie made everyone gasp
> > and say "wholly s**t". They did an awesome job
> > climbing anything they came
> > up too. If I had the money I would build one for
> the
> > heck of it :o) But
> > still keep the JEEP!
> >
> > Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > Field Service Representative
> > MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > jeff.trujillo@m...
> > Voice:(480)346-6249
> > Fax:(480)346-6813
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> > Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 10:05 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> >
> > I will be the first to admit that I wheeled with a
> > zukie a few weeks back
> > that put my rig to shame......I love my jeep and
> > will always have one, but
> > my next side project will probably be a zukie. You
> > can pick one up dirt
> > cheap, the transfer cases can be run in series for
> > low gearing (again
> > cheap), if you roll it bad enough- just take off
> > your axles (which is where
> > all your money ends up going anyway), and throw it
> > away and find another
> > one!
> >
> > Frank
> > BadAzXJ@m...
> > BadAZZukie@m...
> > ???????????????????????????????????????
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Michael Beckham" <jeepnut7261@h...>
> > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>,"Bill - Jeeps Only"
> > <bill@j...>
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:08:58 -0700
> > >
> > >yes this is a fanatical jeep club, (wait while I
> > wipe the foam from my
> > >mouth)
> > >but who would have thought the Zukes would get a
> > following when they first
> > >came out?
> > >I personally will give up my Jeep when they pry
> my
> > cold dead fingers off
> > >the
> > >steering wheel, but I also recognize the need for
> > other vehicles out there.
> > >How else would we be able to point out the
> > short-comings of others if they
> > >were not around to look down at?
> > >When I wheel and occasionally look down to see
> what
> > vehicle I'm driving
> > >over
> > >(I think I'll invent a plexiglass floor so I can
> > wave as I pass over those
> > >poor pitiful vehicles and the whining misguided
> > owners thereof) I am
> > >thankful that I did not fall victim to t
76402 From: Richard Logan <rlogan@d...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:38am
Subject:
Richard Logan 92 YJ
From: "Richard Logan" rlogan@d...
To: az_vj@y...
Subject: YJ Dream
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:32:25 -0700
As I went to bed last and started to fall asleep
In my head I started the to think about all the threads about hummers, toyota and jeeps
Then all of sudden I was all locked up and started to creep
So off I went all twisted up to crawl my jeep to the very top
When I reach the summit their I did stop
Then I looked far far below to see what I could see
There were all the hummers and such looking up at the jeep and me
then all of a sudden the ground began to rumble
I looked back in amazment and glee as jeeps of all sorts had wheeled to the top to see
then all of a sudden their was such a chatter
About jeeps and things that really matter
When all of a sudden it was as if the earth was shak'in
My eyes popped wide open and there was my sweet wife looking down upon me
Then she softly began to speak
honey i can't take any more about jeeps
you talk about them even in your sleep
I looked into her eyes, i said honey your right
so tommorow we will go to mall or a show
This is where all the other hummers and 4x4 go
So with this we hugged and kissed
She was not so very pi##ed !
so as we both feel back off to sleep
Back came the dreams of my YJ Jeep
Rick logan 92 YJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
76403 From: Richard Logan <rlogan@d...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:40am
Subject: YJ Dreaming
As I went to bed last and started to fall asleep
In my head I started the to think about all the threads about hummers, toyota and jeeps
Then all of sudden I was all locked up and started to creep
So off I went all twisted up to crawl my jeep to the very top
When I reach the summit their I did stop
Then I looked far far below to see what I could see
There were all the hummers and such looking up at the jeep and me
then all of a sudden the ground began to rumble
I looked back in amazment and glee as jeeps of all sorts had wheeled to the top to see
then all of a sudden their was such a chatter
About jeeps and things that really matter
When all of a sudden it was as if the earth was shak'in
My eyes popped wide open and there was my sweet wife looking down upon me
Then she softly began to speak
honey i can't take any more about jeeps
you talk about them even in your sleep
I looked into her eyes, i said honey your right
so tommorow we will go to mall or a show
This is where all the other hummers and 4x4 go
So with this we hugged and kissed
She was not so very pi##ed !
so as we both feel back off to sleep
Back came the dreams of my YJ Jeep
Rick logan 92 YJ
76404 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:35am
Subject: Re: was Rubicon VS H2 NOW KIA's that might be taken serious
I should have mentioned that this picture was set up.....
It took 2 jeeps with winches and several anchor vehicles to get keith out.
Keith is always a good sport and let the kia hook up to him for the picture.
The kia did attempt to pull him out but I joked while it was happening that
it was having a hard time taking the tension out of the tow strap (nevermind
budging the jeep!)
Bill-I havent had a chance to read all the posts yet-(was at the open
yesterday and my mailbox filled up) But....is that anyway to thank me for
the great deal on the rims ?
Just kiddin. :)
Frank
BadAzXJ@m...
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>
> > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > > Oops, sorry, I thought I posted my message to the Arizona Virtual JEEP
> > Club.
> > > Last I heard, most of us here were fanatics about Jeeps. Sure, Kia
>makes
>a
> > > good lil sport ute (and I mean that) but you can't compare it to a
>Jeep.
> > And
> > > if I was stuck and there were 7 Jeeps and 1 Kia Sportage around, I
>would
> > > first go to the Jeeps to ask for a tug. If there wasn't a Jeep around
>I
> > > would be very appreciative if the Kia would help. As for the god
>complex,
> > I
> > > think our Jeeps have earned the right to be revered as offroad titans,
> > don't
> > > you? They are in a class by themselves and no other manufacturer has
> > > anything comparible. Besides, every vehicle make has its fanatics. I
>have
> > > Toyota truck friends that feel the same way about Toyota that some of
>us
> > > feel about our Jeeps (there is NO way they want to be pulled out by a
>Jeep
> > > unless there is no other choice). Oh and getting stuck can be fun,
>too.
>Ya
> > > can't blame the Jeep for getting stuck. Anything can get stuck.
> > >
> > > And for the record, I don't like trying to compare a Jeep to a Hummer.
> > They
> > > are two WAY different vehicles. I don't think the H2 is intended for
> > > hardcore 4x4 action anyway. It's a neat rig and I personally would
>love
>to
> > > have one, but Jeep and Hummer cover two different markets in my
>opinion.
> > > Kind of like comparing a fullsize extended cab Ford 4x4 to a Jeep.
>Sure
>a
> > > lifted full size truck can go through 4 feet of snow but it doesn't
>rock
> > > crawl well.
> > >
> > > Lastly, I've seen several stock Jeeps from the club out there
>wheeling.
>My
> > > latest Jeep is mostly still stock and we wheel it all the time. Sorry
>I
> > > don't have $40,000 right now to drop in a Corvette engine, 39 inch
>tires
> > and
> > > locked Dana 60's all around.
> > >
> > > Oh and if anyway should get flamed it's Frank for instigating this
>whole
> > > argument by posting that picture :-).
> > >
> > > ---------------
> > > Bill Hooven
> > > Jeeps Only
> > > http://www.jeepsonly.com
> > > A Yahoo-style directory of Jeep links
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...>
> > > To: <jeepindog@y...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 4:30 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > > Besides, how many of us wheel stock Jeeps anyway?
> > > >
> > > > Scott K
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...> [mailto:jeepindog@y...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:12 PM
> > > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > KIA is not a bad manufacturer. In fact, they make some pretty
> > > > decent vehicles. Remember when a Honda was the cheapest piece of
> > > > ****e you could find on the road? (I do.) KIA never made a cheap
> > > > car, but they do make some very inexpensive cars. The fact that
>they
> > > > make one with a two-speed transfer case that did pretty well in the
> > > > 4x4 of the Year comparison (the actual 'wheelin part) that is
> > > > actually affordable and well-made should earn it some well-deserved
> > > > respect. Jeep Jeep Jeep. Don't you guys ever get tired of eating
> > > > the same thing for lunch? I will always own my Jeep, and love it
>and
> > > > all Jeeps. There are other vehicles out there that are very good at
> > > > some of the things that Jeeps are good at. Not *as* good, but
> > > > close. And if a Jeep driver just happens to get the Jeep stuck
> > > > (won't mention driver's ability) who cares who pulls it out? Maybe
> > > > DC should start charging extra for the God Complex that comes with
> > > > owning a Jeep!
> > > >
> > > > Lachlan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Clint Ramsey" <cwramsey@t...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I almost vomited when I opened that picture
> > > > >
> > > > > Clint
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
> > > > > To: Joe-CJ7@J...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > > arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Kia pulling TJ....
> > > > >
> > > > > (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com
> > > > oops
> > > > > section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
> > > > > sunday)
> > > > >
> > > > > Frank
> > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
__________________________________________________ _______________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
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76405 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:47am
Subject: [FS] Wanted - SHOCKS
Price: Reasonable
Contact: Barry Stem
I'm looking for shocks for my 1/2 ton suburban and I need a set for the front of my CJ7 w/ a4" lift. Phone number is 480-226-5266
Barry Stem
76406 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:49am
Subject: RE: was Rubicon VS H2 NOW KIA's that might be taken serious
Turbo Diesel... Hummm
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: TRobertsRN [mailto:TRobertsRN@e...]
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 8:30 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] was Rubicon VS H2 NOW KIA's that might be taken
serious
http://global.kia.co.kr/vehicle/military/introduction.html
I am by no means a Kia fan but their military vehicles look a lot like
the old jeep full size. Check out the site above. Not sure if they are
available here.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Beckham" <jeepnut7261@h...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>; "Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 7:08 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
yes this is a fanatical jeep club, (wait while I wipe the foam from my
mouth)
but who would have thought the Zukes would get a following when they
first came out? I personally will give up my Jeep when they pry my cold
dead fingers off the steering wheel, but I also recognize the need for
other vehicles out there. How else would we be able to point out the
short-comings of others if they were not around to look down at? When I
wheel and occasionally look down to see what vehicle I'm driving over (I
think I'll invent a plexiglass floor so I can wave as I pass over those
poor pitiful vehicles and the whining misguided owners thereof) I am
thankful that I did not fall victim to the platitudes of blatantly false
advertising and buy something else that claims to be "as good as" my
Jeep. So when you see some poor soul show up with his KIA modified with
dana 60's and 35" tires, and ARB's, just remember, he was trying to copy
what we do with a JEEP!
Imitation is the most sincere type of flattery.
Thank You!
Michael (whyareyoulisteningtomeanyway) Beckham
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> Oops, sorry, I thought I posted my message to the Arizona Virtual JEEP
Club.
> Last I heard, most of us here were fanatics about Jeeps. Sure, Kia
> makes a good lil sport ute (and I mean that) but you can't compare it
> to a Jeep.
And
> if I was stuck and there were 7 Jeeps and 1 Kia Sportage around, I
> would first go to the Jeeps to ask for a tug. If there wasn't a Jeep
> around I would be very appreciative if the Kia would help. As for the
> god complex,
I
> think our Jeeps have earned the right to be revered as offroad titans,
don't
> you? They are in a class by themselves and no other manufacturer has
> anything comparible. Besides, every vehicle make has its fanatics. I
> have Toyota truck friends that feel the same way about Toyota that
> some of us feel about our Jeeps (there is NO way they want to be
> pulled out by a Jeep unless there is no other choice). Oh and getting
> stuck can be fun, too. Ya can't blame the Jeep for getting stuck.
> Anything can get stuck.
>
> And for the record, I don't like trying to compare a Jeep to a Hummer.
They
> are two WAY different vehicles. I don't think the H2 is intended for
> hardcore 4x4 action anyway. It's a neat rig and I personally would
> love to have one, but Jeep and Hummer cover two different markets in
> my opinion. Kind of like comparing a fullsize extended cab Ford 4x4 to
> a Jeep. Sure a lifted full size truck can go through 4 feet of snow
> but it doesn't rock crawl well.
>
> Lastly, I've seen several stock Jeeps from the club out there
> wheeling. My latest Jeep is mostly still stock and we wheel it all the
> time. Sorry I don't have $40,000 right now to drop in a Corvette
> engine, 39 inch tires
and
> locked Dana 60's all around.
>
> Oh and if anyway should get flamed it's Frank for instigating this
> whole argument by posting that picture :-).
>
> ---------------
> Bill Hooven
> Jeeps Only
> http://www.jeepsonly.com
> A Yahoo-style directory of Jeep links
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...>
> To: <jeepindog@y...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 4:30 PM
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> > Besides, how many of us wheel stock Jeeps anyway?
> >
> > Scott K
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...> [mailto:jeepindog@y...]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:12 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > KIA is not a bad manufacturer. In fact, they make some pretty
> > decent vehicles. Remember when a Honda was the cheapest piece of
> > ****e you could find on the road? (I do.) KIA never made a cheap
> > car, but they do make some very inexpensive cars. The fact that
> > they make one with a two-speed transfer case that did pretty well in
> > the 4x4 of the Year comparison (the actual 'wheelin part) that is
> > actually affordable and well-made should earn it some well-deserved
> > respect. Jeep Jeep Jeep. Don't you guys ever get tired of eating
> > the same thing for lunch? I will always own my Jeep, and love it
> > and all Jeeps. There are other vehicles out there that are very
> > good at some of the things that Jeeps are good at. Not *as* good,
> > but close. And if a Jeep driver just happens to get the Jeep stuck
> > (won't mention driver's ability) who cares who pulls it out? Maybe
> > DC should start charging extra for the God Complex that comes with
> > owning a Jeep!
> >
> > Lachlan
> >
> >
> > In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Clint Ramsey" <cwramsey@t...> wrote:
> > >
> > > I almost vomited when I opened that picture
> > >
> > > Clint
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
> > > To: Joe-CJ7@J...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> > > arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > Kia pulling TJ....
> > >
> > > (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com
> > oops
> > > section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
> > > sunday)
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76407 From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...> <jeepindog@y...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:53am
Subject: Die, Earth Cookies, Die!
Good article, John. Die, Earth Cookies, Die!!! (Hey Neal,
pretty cool, huh?)
Lachlan
In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, John Stewart <landuse@u...> wrote:
> http://www.boulderweekly.com/coverstory.html
>
> The compromised Sierra Club
> Once a bold defender of the planet, America's largest environmental
> group has become a cheap political prostitute
> - - - - - - - - - - - -
> by Ron Bain (Editorial@b...)
>
> Locally and nationally, the Sierra Club is dying. It has a pulse,
but
> has lost its wit, forgotten who it is and has no idea what it
stands
> for...
76408 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:54am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2
Keith,
Sorry I neglected to mention until this morning when I logged on that in
fact this was a set up photo. I figured that most would see the humor in
this photo.
As for the driver ability, I dont know who posted that, but I will atest
that ANY driver would have gotten stuck in that muck with your current rig
set up. After seing you get stuck, I didnt attempt it (even with 35's and
locked front and rear). The wet clay is just too slick.
Also, even though many sat around watching. There were a lot of people
helping. (I even got to use my shovel for the first time digging out your
right rear tire).
You were a good sport to let them take the pic. Its people like you that
make wheelin fun and I hope this doesnt get you too "down" on the club.
Thanks
Frank
BadAzXJ@m...
>From: "Michael Beckham" <jeepnut7261@h...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>,<kdberanek@c...>
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:25:28 -0700
>
>Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. The reason I'm in the VJC is due
>to
>my experience with this and other club members.
>I had run into other groups, and was treated poorly (bad language, bad
>attitudes just all around the typical stereotype that non-jeepers expect)
>but when I was doing Crown King for the first time, I ran into a group from
>VJC. they invited me to join the run, and really made myself and my family
>(most important, it's a family thing) feel welcome.
>As for the gears, I re-geared to 4.56's and am VERY happy. I run 33's, and
>it is a good match with the 5-speed IMO.
>If you call Desert rat in Peoria (19th ave) they use Kong for gears. The
>service was excellent, and they stand behind their work. Sorry I don't
>have
>a number.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <kdberanek@c...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:58 PM
>Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> >
> > I was the driver of the TJ that got stuck the KIA strapped to it was
> > a joke. It actually took two jeap with winches and two or three more
> > as anchors to pull me out. It was more like wet clay than mud. I
> > want to thank those who lended a hand put I gotta say most "club"
> > members that were there were quite content to sit in lawn chairs next
> > to their jeeps and watch. In fact a few actually got mad because of
> > the time it took to pull me out. Fortunately this is not the first
> > club run I have been on or I would probably not go on one again.
> > Some of the comments made to me were pretty bad. I got the jeep 3
> > months ago and while it is no rock crawling monster I'm proud of it.
> > I won't comment to much on the driver ability part. Put I have 20
> > years of off road driving experience. Granted not in a TJ will take
> > sometime and a few more trips to totally get a feel for it's
> > ability. Driver error was thinking a totally open jeep with 3.07
> > gears and 33in tires could go thru what appeared to be a very shallow
> > mud hole that turned out was over 2 feet deep. BTW speaking of
> > gearing I just obtained a set of gears and carriers from a club
> > member but need help getting them put in. Any volunteers? or
> > recommendations on where to go and approximate cost. Cost is for
> > help from club member too.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...> wrote:
> > > Besides, how many of us wheel stock Jeeps anyway?
> > >
> > > Scott K
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...> [mailto:jeepindog@y...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:12 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > KIA is not a bad manufacturer. In fact, they make some pretty
> > > decent vehicles. Remember when a Honda was the cheapest piece of
> > > ****e you could find on the road? (I do.) KIA never made a cheap
> > > car, but they do make some very inexpensive cars. The fact that
> > they
> > > make one with a two-speed transfer case that did pretty well in the
> > > 4x4 of the Year comparison (the actual 'wheelin part) that is
> > > actually affordable and well-made should earn it some well-deserved
> > > respect. Jeep Jeep Jeep. Don't you guys ever get tired of eating
> > > the same thing for lunch? I will always own my Jeep, and love it
> > and
> > > all Jeeps. There are other vehicles out there that are very good
> > at
> > > some of the things that Jeeps are good at. Not *as* good, but
> > > close. And if a Jeep driver just happens to get the Jeep stuck
> > > (won't mention driver's ability) who cares who pulls it out? Maybe
> > > DC should start charging extra for the God Complex that comes with
> > > owning a Jeep!
> > >
> > > Lachlan
> > >
> > >
> > > In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Clint Ramsey" <cwramsey@t...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I almost vomited when I opened that picture
> > > >
> > > > Clint
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
> > > > To: Joe-CJ7@J...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kia pulling TJ....
> > > >
> > > > (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com
> > > oops
> > > > section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
> > > > sunday)
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@J...>
> > > > >To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
> > > > >
> > > > >Frank,
> > > > >
> > > > >Where can I find the pictures?
> > > > >
> > > > >Joe Kearney
> > > > >Joe-CJ7@J...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
> > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ
> > side......
> > > > > > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too
> > bad...... :) The
> > >
> > > > > > nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people
> > > > just
> > > > >say
> > > > > > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I
> > get
> > > my
> > > > junk
> > > > > > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > > > > > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few
> > > good
> > > > >shots
> > > > >of
> > > > > > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from
> > > > Sunday).....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Frank
> > > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> > > > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig. I
> > love
> > > > > > >my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The
> > > H2
> > > > would
> > > > >be
> > > > > > >ok
> > > > > > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for
> > > free...I'd
> > > >
> > > > >sell
> > > > >it
> > > > > > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Martin
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP
> > > magazine
> > > > doing
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand
> > > due to
> > > > the
> > > > > > >rubicons
> > > > > > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the
> > > stupid
> > > > IFS,
> > > > >I
> > > > > > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday
> > anyway. I
> > > > have
> > > > >kids
> > > > > > >that
> > > > > > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without
> > worrying
> > > > about
> > > > > > >people
> > > > > > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear.
> > > Plus I
> > > > like
> > > > >my
> > > > > > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound
> > > system.
> > > > >Before
> > > > > > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will
> > admit
> > > that
> > > > a
> > > > >stock
> > > > > > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and
> > cash
> > > into
> > > > my
> > > > >rig
> > > > > > >to
> > > > > > > > hang in.
> > > > > > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be
> > > too
> > > > wide
> > > > >but
> > > > > > >if
> > > > > > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just
> > pull a
> > > > rock
> > > > >buggy
> > > > > > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never
> > > engage
> > > > the
> > > > >locker
> > > > > > > > anyway)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Frank
> > > > > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > > > > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A
> > > Rubicon
> > > > gets
> > > > >31"
> > > > > > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room,
> > > > probably
> > > > > > > > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also
> > has a
> > > > bigger
> > > > > > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably
> > gets
> > > more
> > > > > > > > >envious looks (without a single modification) than most
> > > Jeeps
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really
> > > > matters...)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except
> > > under
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires.
> > That
> > > > "road
> > > > > > > > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me
> > nauseous.
> > > > What a
> > > > > > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a
> > > special
> > > > > > > > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit
> > with
> > > a
> > > > lack
> > > > >of
> > > > > > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground
> > up,
> > > and
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically
> > > only
> > > > >upgraded
> > > > > > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and
> > > rear
> > > > > > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some
> > > badass
> > > > > > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper
> > > use
> > > > of AL
> > > > > > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would
> > have a
> > > > hard
> > > > >time
> > > > > > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one?
> > > Ever
> > > > >ridden
> > > > > > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I
> > have
> > > > done
> > > > >all
> > > > > > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2
> > > might be
> > > > a
> > > > >fun
> > > > > > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s
> > > on
> > > > the H2
> > > > > > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep?
> > > > (Besides
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving
> > > other
> > > >
> > > > >rigs
> > > > > > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect.
> > Yeah,
> > > we
> > > > all
> > > > > > > > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne,
> > > would
> > > > you?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look
> > > at an
> > > > H-2
> > > > >in
> > > > > > > > >TX on
> > > > > > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards,
> > didnt
> > > look
> > > >
> > > > >like
> > > > > > > > >it was too
> > > > > > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance
> > > in the
> > > > >middle
> > > > > > > > >but none
> > > > > > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock
> > > ZJ
> > > > looks
> > > > > > > > >like it has
> > > > > > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon,
> > > I saw
> > > > one
> > > > >at
> > > > > > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that
> > > either
> > > > for
> > > > > > > > >the price,
> > > > > > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied
> > > with
> > > > my YJ
> > > > > > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > > > > > :-)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > > >
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76409 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:00am
Subject: RE: OT (?) Need a job to keep Jeep. If you can't help, please delete!
Russell,
Email me your resume.
Thanks,
Frank
BadAzXJ@m...
>From: "Joe-CJ7" <Joe-CJ7@j...>
>To: <gev39@y...>,<az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [az_vjc] OT (?) Need a job to keep Jeep. If you can't help,
>please delete!
>Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:19:16 -0700
>
>Russell,
>
>That sucks but we all have been there to some extent. If anyone would
>flame they should walk a mile in your shoes!!!
>
>I do not know of anything but maybe you can send me your resume and I
>will get it out there with everyone else.
>
>Joe Kearney
>Joe-CJ7@J...
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Russell Gevarter <gev39@y...> [mailto:gev39@y...]
>Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 6:49 PM
>To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [az_vjc] OT (?) Need a job to keep Jeep. If you can't help,
>please delete!
>
>
>Wife says the Jeep will have to go soon...I need help!
>I feel really bad asking this group for employment help, but you
>guys are about my only friends. I have avoided doing so for almost a
>year since I lost my job last March...
>But heres the situation: I have used up my savings, cashed out my
>401k, my wife's 401k, run up our credit cards to their limits,
>borrowed all of my mother's money. Right now I don't think we can
>pay mortgage next month, not to mention the other bills.
>
>I'm a Telephone/Data network technician with PBX and Central Office
>experience, also Cisco CCNA certified. I will be glad to send a
>resume, please e-mail me off-list.
>
>I pretty much expect to flamed for sending this, I can take it.
>Flame away!
>Russell Gevarter
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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76410 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:05am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2
I will be the first to admit that I wheeled with a zukie a few weeks back
that put my rig to shame......I love my jeep and will always have one, but
my next side project will probably be a zukie. You can pick one up dirt
cheap, the transfer cases can be run in series for low gearing (again
cheap), if you roll it bad enough- just take off your axles (which is where
all your money ends up going anyway), and throw it away and find another
one!
Frank
BadAzXJ@m...
BadAZZukie@m... ???????????????????????????????????????
>From: "Michael Beckham" <jeepnut7261@h...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>,"Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:08:58 -0700
>
>yes this is a fanatical jeep club, (wait while I wipe the foam from my
>mouth)
>but who would have thought the Zukes would get a following when they first
>came out?
>I personally will give up my Jeep when they pry my cold dead fingers off
>the
>steering wheel, but I also recognize the need for other vehicles out there.
>How else would we be able to point out the short-comings of others if they
>were not around to look down at?
>When I wheel and occasionally look down to see what vehicle I'm driving
>over
>(I think I'll invent a plexiglass floor so I can wave as I pass over those
>poor pitiful vehicles and the whining misguided owners thereof) I am
>thankful that I did not fall victim to the platitudes of blatantly false
>advertising and buy something else that claims to be "as good as" my Jeep.
>So when you see some poor soul show up with his KIA modified with dana 60's
>and 35" tires, and ARB's, just remember, he was trying to copy what we do
>with a JEEP!
>
>Imitation is the most sincere type of flattery.
>
>
>Thank You!
>Michael (whyareyoulisteningtomeanyway) Beckham
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:39 PM
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> > Oops, sorry, I thought I posted my message to the Arizona Virtual JEEP
>Club.
> > Last I heard, most of us here were fanatics about Jeeps. Sure, Kia makes
>a
> > good lil sport ute (and I mean that) but you can't compare it to a Jeep.
>And
> > if I was stuck and there were 7 Jeeps and 1 Kia Sportage around, I would
> > first go to the Jeeps to ask for a tug. If there wasn't a Jeep around I
> > would be very appreciative if the Kia would help. As for the god
>complex,
>I
> > think our Jeeps have earned the right to be revered as offroad titans,
>don't
> > you? They are in a class by themselves and no other manufacturer has
> > anything comparible. Besides, every vehicle make has its fanatics. I
>have
> > Toyota truck friends that feel the same way about Toyota that some of us
> > feel about our Jeeps (there is NO way they want to be pulled out by a
>Jeep
> > unless there is no other choice). Oh and getting stuck can be fun, too.
>Ya
> > can't blame the Jeep for getting stuck. Anything can get stuck.
> >
> > And for the record, I don't like trying to compare a Jeep to a Hummer.
>They
> > are two WAY different vehicles. I don't think the H2 is intended for
> > hardcore 4x4 action anyway. It's a neat rig and I personally would love
>to
> > have one, but Jeep and Hummer cover two different markets in my opinion.
> > Kind of like comparing a fullsize extended cab Ford 4x4 to a Jeep. Sure
>a
> > lifted full size truck can go through 4 feet of snow but it doesn't rock
> > crawl well.
> >
> > Lastly, I've seen several stock Jeeps from the club out there wheeling.
>My
> > latest Jeep is mostly still stock and we wheel it all the time. Sorry I
> > don't have $40,000 right now to drop in a Corvette engine, 39 inch tires
>and
> > locked Dana 60's all around.
> >
> > Oh and if anyway should get flamed it's Frank for instigating this whole
> > argument by posting that picture :-).
> >
> > ---------------
> > Bill Hooven
> > Jeeps Only
> > http://www.jeepsonly.com
> > A Yahoo-style directory of Jeep links
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...>
> > To: <jeepindog@y...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 4:30 PM
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > > Besides, how many of us wheel stock Jeeps anyway?
> > >
> > > Scott K
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...> [mailto:jeepindog@y...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:12 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > KIA is not a bad manufacturer. In fact, they make some pretty
> > > decent vehicles. Remember when a Honda was the cheapest piece of
> > > ****e you could find on the road? (I do.) KIA never made a cheap
> > > car, but they do make some very inexpensive cars. The fact that they
> > > make one with a two-speed transfer case that did pretty well in the
> > > 4x4 of the Year comparison (the actual 'wheelin part) that is
> > > actually affordable and well-made should earn it some well-deserved
> > > respect. Jeep Jeep Jeep. Don't you guys ever get tired of eating
> > > the same thing for lunch? I will always own my Jeep, and love it and
> > > all Jeeps. There are other vehicles out there that are very good at
> > > some of the things that Jeeps are good at. Not *as* good, but
> > > close. And if a Jeep driver just happens to get the Jeep stuck
> > > (won't mention driver's ability) who cares who pulls it out? Maybe
> > > DC should start charging extra for the God Complex that comes with
> > > owning a Jeep!
> > >
> > > Lachlan
> > >
> > >
> > > In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Clint Ramsey" <cwramsey@t...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I almost vomited when I opened that picture
> > > >
> > > > Clint
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
> > > > To: Joe-CJ7@J...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kia pulling TJ....
> > > >
> > > > (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com
> > > oops
> > > > section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
> > > > sunday)
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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76411 From: Richard Logan <rlogan@d...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:17am
Subject: Fw: YJ Dreaming
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Logan
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 9:40 AM
Subject: YJ Dreaming
As I went to bed last and started to fall asleep
In my head I started the to think about all the threads about hummers, toyota and jeeps
Then all of sudden I was all locked up and started to creep
So off I went all twisted up to crawl my jeep to the very top
When I reach the summit their I did stop
Then I looked far far below to see what I could see
There were all the hummers and such looking up at the jeep and me
then all of a sudden the ground began to rumble
I looked back in amazment and glee as jeeps of all sorts had wheeled to the top to see
then all of a sudden their was such a chatter
About jeeps and things that really matter
When all of a sudden it was as if the earth was shak'in
My eyes popped wide open and there was my sweet wife looking down upon me
Then she softly began to speak
honey i can't take any more about jeeps
you talk about them even in your sleep
I looked into her eyes, i said honey your right
so tommorow we will go to mall or a show
This is where all the other hummers and 4x4 go
So with this we hugged and kissed
She was not so very pi##ed !
so as we both feel back off to sleep
Back came the dreams of my YJ Jeep
Rick logan 92 YJ
76412 From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...> <jeepindog@y...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:12am
Subject: Re: Rubicon VS H2
I made mention of the driver's ability, and meant it just like
you explained. I don't think it had anything to do with the driver,
instead it was the Jeep. Not too many rigs of any brand can drive
through two foot deep wet clay. But if any 4x4 CAN, it must be a
Jeep!
Lachlan
In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...> wrote:
>
> Keith,
>
> Sorry I neglected to mention until this morning when I logged on
that in
> fact this was a set up photo. I figured that most would see the
humor in
> this photo.
>
> As for the driver ability, I dont know who posted that, but I will
atest
> that ANY driver would have gotten stuck in that muck with your
current rig
> set up. After seing you get stuck, I didnt attempt it (even with
35's and
> locked front and rear). The wet clay is just too slick.
>
> Also, even though many sat around watching. There were a lot of
people
> helping. (I even got to use my shovel for the first time digging
out your
> right rear tire).
>
> You were a good sport to let them take the pic. Its people like
you that
> make wheelin fun and I hope this doesnt get you too "down" on the
club.
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
> BadAzXJ@m...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Michael Beckham" <jeepnut7261@h...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>,<kdberanek@c...>
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:25:28 -0700
> >
> >Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. The reason I'm in the VJC
is due
> >to
> >my experience with this and other club members.
> >I had run into other groups, and was treated poorly (bad language,
bad
> >attitudes just all around the typical stereotype that non-jeepers
expect)
> >but when I was doing Crown King for the first time, I ran into a
group from
> >VJC. they invited me to join the run, and really made myself and
my family
> >(most important, it's a family thing) feel welcome.
> >As for the gears, I re-geared to 4.56's and am VERY happy. I run
33's, and
> >it is a good match with the 5-speed IMO.
> >If you call Desert rat in Peoria (19th ave) they use Kong for
gears. The
> >service was excellent, and they stand behind their work. Sorry I
don't
> >have
> >a number.
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <kdberanek@c...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:58 PM
> >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I was the driver of the TJ that got stuck the KIA strapped to
it was
> > > a joke. It actually took two jeap with winches and two or
three more
> > > as anchors to pull me out. It was more like wet clay than mud.
I
> > > want to thank those who lended a hand put I gotta say
most "club"
> > > members that were there were quite content to sit in lawn
chairs next
> > > to their jeeps and watch. In fact a few actually got mad
because of
> > > the time it took to pull me out. Fortunately this is not the
first
> > > club run I have been on or I would probably not go on one again.
> > > Some of the comments made to me were pretty bad. I got the jeep
3
> > > months ago and while it is no rock crawling monster I'm proud
of it.
> > > I won't comment to much on the driver ability part. Put I have
20
> > > years of off road driving experience. Granted not in a TJ will
take
> > > sometime and a few more trips to totally get a feel for it's
> > > ability. Driver error was thinking a totally open jeep with
3.07
> > > gears and 33in tires could go thru what appeared to be a very
shallow
> > > mud hole that turned out was over 2 feet deep. BTW speaking of
> > > gearing I just obtained a set of gears and carriers from a club
> > > member but need help getting them put in. Any volunteers? or
> > > recommendations on where to go and approximate cost. Cost is
for
> > > help from club member too.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...>
wrote:
> > > > Besides, how many of us wheel stock Jeeps anyway?
> > > >
> > > > Scott K
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...> [mailto:jeepindog@y...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:12 PM
> > > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > KIA is not a bad manufacturer. In fact, they make some
pretty
> > > > decent vehicles. Remember when a Honda was the cheapest
piece of
> > > > ****e you could find on the road? (I do.) KIA never made a
cheap
> > > > car, but they do make some very inexpensive cars. The fact
that
> > > they
> > > > make one with a two-speed transfer case that did pretty well
in the
> > > > 4x4 of the Year comparison (the actual 'wheelin part) that is
> > > > actually affordable and well-made should earn it some well-
deserved
> > > > respect. Jeep Jeep Jeep. Don't you guys ever get tired of
eating
> > > > the same thing for lunch? I will always own my Jeep, and
love it
> > > and
> > > > all Jeeps. There are other vehicles out there that are very
good
> > > at
> > > > some of the things that Jeeps are good at. Not *as* good, but
> > > > close. And if a Jeep driver just happens to get the Jeep
stuck
> > > > (won't mention driver's ability) who cares who pulls it out?
Maybe
> > > > DC should start charging extra for the God Complex that comes
with
> > > > owning a Jeep!
> > > >
> > > > Lachlan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Clint Ramsey" <cwramsey@t...>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I almost vomited when I opened that picture
> > > > >
> > > > > Clint
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
> > > > > To: Joe-CJ7@J...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > > arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Kia pulling TJ....
> > > > >
> > > > > (if you cant get the attachment, its in the
www.azbackcountry.com
> > > > oops
> > > > > section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips
page from
> > > > > sunday)
> > > > >
> > > > > Frank
> > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@J...>
> > > > > >To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Frank,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Where can I find the pictures?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Joe Kearney
> > > > > >Joe-CJ7@J...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ
> > > side......
> > > > > > > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be
too.....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too
> > > bad...... :) The
> > > >
> > > > > > > nice thing about a rig like that is if you get
stuck..people
> > > > > just
> > > > > >say
> > > > > > > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4."
But I
> > > get
> > > > my
> > > > > junk
> > > > > > > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > > > > > > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we
got a few
> > > > good
> > > > > >shots
> > > > > >of
> > > > > > > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics
from
> > > > > Sunday).....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Frank
> > > > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> > > > > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy
rig. I
> > > love
> > > > > > > >my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The
> > > > H2
> > > > > would
> > > > > >be
> > > > > > > >ok
> > > > > > > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2
for
> > > > free...I'd
> > > > >
> > > > > >sell
> > > > > >it
> > > > > > > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Martin
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > > > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP
> > > > magazine
> > > > > doing
> > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the
sand
> > > > due to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > >rubicons
> > > > > > > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt
have the
> > > > stupid
> > > > > IFS,
> > > > > >I
> > > > > > > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday
> > > anyway. I
> > > > > have
> > > > > >kids
> > > > > > > >that
> > > > > > > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without
> > > worrying
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > >people
> > > > > > > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my
gear.
> > > > Plus I
> > > > > like
> > > > > >my
> > > > > > > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a
sound
> > > > system.
> > > > > >Before
> > > > > > > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I
will
> > > admit
> > > > that
> > > > > a
> > > > > >stock
> > > > > > > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time
and
> > > cash
> > > > into
> > > > > my
> > > > > >rig
> > > > > > > >to
> > > > > > > > > hang in.
> > > > > > > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that
might be
> > > > too
> > > > > wide
> > > > > >but
> > > > > > > >if
> > > > > > > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can
just
> > > pull a
> > > > > rock
> > > > > >buggy
> > > > > > > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will
never
> > > > engage
> > > > > the
> > > > > >locker
> > > > > > > > > anyway)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Frank
> > > > > > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > > > > > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't
it? A
> > > > Rubicon
> > > > > gets
> > > > > >31"
> > > > > > > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger
room,
> > > > > probably
> > > > > > > > > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It
also
> > > has a
> > > > > bigger
> > > > > > > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and
probably
> > > gets
> > > > more
> > > > > > > > > >envious looks (without a single modification) than
most
> > > > Jeeps
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention
really
> > > > > matters...)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal,
except
> > > > under
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller
tires.
> > > That
> > > > > "road
> > > > > > > > > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me
> > > nauseous.
> > > > > What a
> > > > > > > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to
take a
> > > > special
> > > > > > > > > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little
bit
> > > with
> > > > a
> > > > > lack
> > > > > >of
> > > > > > > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the
ground
> > > up,
> > > > and
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model;
basically
> > > > only
> > > > > >upgraded
> > > > > > > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44,
front and
> > > > rear
> > > > > > > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and
some
> > > > badass
> > > > > > > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an
improper
> > > > use
> > > > > of AL
> > > > > > > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL
tierod...) :)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I
would
> > > have a
> > > > > hard
> > > > > >time
> > > > > > > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in
one?
> > > > Ever
> > > > > >ridden
> > > > > > > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither.
But I
> > > have
> > > > > done
> > > > > >all
> > > > > > > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and
the H2
> > > > might be
> > > > > a
> > > > > >fun
> > > > > > > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will
ft 38s
> > > > on
> > > > > the H2
> > > > > > > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a
Jeep?
> > > > > (Besides
> > > > > >the
> > > > > > > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start
giving
> > > > other
> > > > >
> > > > > >rigs
> > > > > > > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect.
> > > Yeah,
> > > > we
> > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche
Cayenne,
> > > > would
> > > > > you?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life"
MacLean
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a
good look
> > > > at an
> > > > > H-2
> > > > > >in
> > > > > > > > > >TX on
> > > > > > > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running
boards,
> > > didnt
> > > > look
> > > > >
> > > > > >like
> > > > > > > > > >it was too
> > > > > > > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice
clearance
> > > > in the
> > > > > >middle
> > > > > > > > > >but none
> > > > > > > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to
be stock
> > > > ZJ
> > > > > looks
> > > > > > > > > >like it has
> > > > > > > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the
Rubicon,
> > > > I saw
> > > > > one
> > > > > >at
> > > > > > > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed
with that
> > > > either
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > >the price,
> > > > > > > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly
satisfied
> > > > with
> > > > > my YJ
> > > > > > > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > > > > > > :-)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
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> > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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> > > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > > >
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76413 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:26am
Subject: [FS] Best Top YJ flares, Spare tire cover, light weight hitch & Bumperetts
Price: $10-$100
Contact: Duntov@worldnet.att.net or phone (602)-867-8027
Best Top flares New In the Box Prt# 49247, Best Top Tire cover (black) new in the box Prt # 61033-15, Hitch is light weight flat 5/8" - 3/4" Steel, stock bumperettes
Steve Wise
76414 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:37am
Subject: [FS] Lift springs - wrangler rear
Price: $100 (pair)
Contact: steve 602-482-2428
Superlift wrangler rear 3" springs
Steve Olney
76415 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:39am
Subject: [FS] Automatic trans +adapter
Price: $500
Contact: Steve 602-482-2428
freshly built 727 automatic with adapter to 300 transfercase
Steve Olney
76416 From: Trujillo, Jeff <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:25am
Subject: RE: Re: Rubicon VS H2
I have to agree with Frank. I was there when the sukie made everyone gasp
and say "wholly s**t". They did an awesome job climbing anything they came
up too. If I had the money I would build one for the heck of it :o) But
still keep the JEEP!
Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice:(480)346-6249
Fax:(480)346-6813
-----Original Message-----
From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 10:05 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
I will be the first to admit that I wheeled with a zukie a few weeks back
that put my rig to shame......I love my jeep and will always have one, but
my next side project will probably be a zukie. You can pick one up dirt
cheap, the transfer cases can be run in series for low gearing (again
cheap), if you roll it bad enough- just take off your axles (which is where
all your money ends up going anyway), and throw it away and find another
one!
Frank
BadAzXJ@m...
BadAZZukie@m... ???????????????????????????????????????
>From: "Michael Beckham" <jeepnut7261@h...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>,"Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:08:58 -0700
>
>yes this is a fanatical jeep club, (wait while I wipe the foam from my
>mouth)
>but who would have thought the Zukes would get a following when they first
>came out?
>I personally will give up my Jeep when they pry my cold dead fingers off
>the
>steering wheel, but I also recognize the need for other vehicles out there.
>How else would we be able to point out the short-comings of others if they
>were not around to look down at?
>When I wheel and occasionally look down to see what vehicle I'm driving
>over
>(I think I'll invent a plexiglass floor so I can wave as I pass over those
>poor pitiful vehicles and the whining misguided owners thereof) I am
>thankful that I did not fall victim to the platitudes of blatantly false
>advertising and buy something else that claims to be "as good as" my Jeep.
>So when you see some poor soul show up with his KIA modified with dana 60's
>and 35" tires, and ARB's, just remember, he was trying to copy what we do
>with a JEEP!
>
>Imitation is the most sincere type of flattery.
>
>
>Thank You!
>Michael (whyareyoulisteningtomeanyway) Beckham
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:39 PM
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> > Oops, sorry, I thought I posted my message to the Arizona Virtual JEEP
>Club.
> > Last I heard, most of us here were fanatics about Jeeps. Sure, Kia makes
>a
> > good lil sport ute (and I mean that) but you can't compare it to a Jeep.
>And
> > if I was stuck and there were 7 Jeeps and 1 Kia Sportage around, I would
> > first go to the Jeeps to ask for a tug. If there wasn't a Jeep around I
> > would be very appreciative if the Kia would help. As for the god
>complex,
>I
> > think our Jeeps have earned the right to be revered as offroad titans,
>don't
> > you? They are in a class by themselves and no other manufacturer has
> > anything comparible. Besides, every vehicle make has its fanatics. I
>have
> > Toyota truck friends that feel the same way about Toyota that some of us
> > feel about our Jeeps (there is NO way they want to be pulled out by a
>Jeep
> > unless there is no other choice). Oh and getting stuck can be fun, too.
>Ya
> > can't blame the Jeep for getting stuck. Anything can get stuck.
> >
> > And for the record, I don't like trying to compare a Jeep to a Hummer.
>They
> > are two WAY different vehicles. I don't think the H2 is intended for
> > hardcore 4x4 action anyway. It's a neat rig and I personally would love
>to
> > have one, but Jeep and Hummer cover two different markets in my opinion.
> > Kind of like comparing a fullsize extended cab Ford 4x4 to a Jeep. Sure
>a
> > lifted full size truck can go through 4 feet of snow but it doesn't rock
> > crawl well.
> >
> > Lastly, I've seen several stock Jeeps from the club out there wheeling.
>My
> > latest Jeep is mostly still stock and we wheel it all the time. Sorry I
> > don't have $40,000 right now to drop in a Corvette engine, 39 inch tires
>and
> > locked Dana 60's all around.
> >
> > Oh and if anyway should get flamed it's Frank for instigating this whole
> > argument by posting that picture :-).
> >
> > ---------------
> > Bill Hooven
> > Jeeps Only
> > http://www.jeepsonly.com
> > A Yahoo-style directory of Jeep links
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...>
> > To: <jeepindog@y...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 4:30 PM
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > > Besides, how many of us wheel stock Jeeps anyway?
> > >
> > > Scott K
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...> [mailto:jeepindog@y...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:12 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > KIA is not a bad manufacturer. In fact, they make some pretty
> > > decent vehicles. Remember when a Honda was the cheapest piece of
> > > ****e you could find on the road? (I do.) KIA never made a cheap
> > > car, but they do make some very inexpensive cars. The fact that they
> > > make one with a two-speed transfer case that did pretty well in the
> > > 4x4 of the Year comparison (the actual 'wheelin part) that is
> > > actually affordable and well-made should earn it some well-deserved
> > > respect. Jeep Jeep Jeep. Don't you guys ever get tired of eating
> > > the same thing for lunch? I will always own my Jeep, and love it and
> > > all Jeeps. There are other vehicles out there that are very good at
> > > some of the things that Jeeps are good at. Not *as* good, but
> > > close. And if a Jeep driver just happens to get the Jeep stuck
> > > (won't mention driver's ability) who cares who pulls it out? Maybe
> > > DC should start charging extra for the God Complex that comes with
> > > owning a Jeep!
> > >
> > > Lachlan
> > >
> > >
> > > In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Clint Ramsey" <cwramsey@t...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I almost vomited when I opened that picture
> > > >
> > > > Clint
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
> > > > To: Joe-CJ7@J...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kia pulling TJ....
> > > >
> > > > (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com
> > > oops
> > > > section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
> > > > sunday)
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
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contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
76417 From: Beatriz Galsim <bgalsim@y...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:52am
Subject: RE: Re: Rubicon VS H2
That's kinda scary to hear about a sukie...wish I had
been there to see that.
BEA
--- "Trujillo, Jeff" <jeff.trujillo@m...>
wrote:
> I have to agree with Frank. I was there when the
> sukie made everyone gasp
> and say "wholly s**t". They did an awesome job
> climbing anything they came
> up too. If I had the money I would build one for the
> heck of it :o) But
> still keep the JEEP!
>
> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> Field Service Representative
> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> jeff.trujillo@m...
> Voice:(480)346-6249
> Fax:(480)346-6813
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 10:05 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
>
> I will be the first to admit that I wheeled with a
> zukie a few weeks back
> that put my rig to shame......I love my jeep and
> will always have one, but
> my next side project will probably be a zukie. You
> can pick one up dirt
> cheap, the transfer cases can be run in series for
> low gearing (again
> cheap), if you roll it bad enough- just take off
> your axles (which is where
> all your money ends up going anyway), and throw it
> away and find another
> one!
>
> Frank
> BadAzXJ@m...
> BadAZZukie@m...
> ???????????????????????????????????????
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Michael Beckham" <jeepnut7261@h...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>,"Bill - Jeeps Only"
> <bill@j...>
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:08:58 -0700
> >
> >yes this is a fanatical jeep club, (wait while I
> wipe the foam from my
> >mouth)
> >but who would have thought the Zukes would get a
> following when they first
> >came out?
> >I personally will give up my Jeep when they pry my
> cold dead fingers off
> >the
> >steering wheel, but I also recognize the need for
> other vehicles out there.
> >How else would we be able to point out the
> short-comings of others if they
> >were not around to look down at?
> >When I wheel and occasionally look down to see what
> vehicle I'm driving
> >over
> >(I think I'll invent a plexiglass floor so I can
> wave as I pass over those
> >poor pitiful vehicles and the whining misguided
> owners thereof) I am
> >thankful that I did not fall victim to the
> platitudes of blatantly false
> >advertising and buy something else that claims to
> be "as good as" my Jeep.
> >So when you see some poor soul show up with his KIA
> modified with dana 60's
> >and 35" tires, and ARB's, just remember, he was
> trying to copy what we do
> >with a JEEP!
> >
> >Imitation is the most sincere type of flattery.
> >
> >
> >Thank You!
> >Michael (whyareyoulisteningtomeanyway) Beckham
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:39 PM
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > > Oops, sorry, I thought I posted my message to
> the Arizona Virtual JEEP
> >Club.
> > > Last I heard, most of us here were fanatics
> about Jeeps. Sure, Kia makes
>
> >a
> > > good lil sport ute (and I mean that) but you
> can't compare it to a Jeep.
> >And
> > > if I was stuck and there were 7 Jeeps and 1 Kia
> Sportage around, I would
> > > first go to the Jeeps to ask for a tug. If there
> wasn't a Jeep around I
> > > would be very appreciative if the Kia would
> help. As for the god
> >complex,
> >I
> > > think our Jeeps have earned the right to be
> revered as offroad titans,
> >don't
> > > you? They are in a class by themselves and no
> other manufacturer has
> > > anything comparible. Besides, every vehicle make
> has its fanatics. I
> >have
> > > Toyota truck friends that feel the same way
> about Toyota that some of us
> > > feel about our Jeeps (there is NO way they want
> to be pulled out by a
> >Jeep
> > > unless there is no other choice). Oh and getting
> stuck can be fun, too.
> >Ya
> > > can't blame the Jeep for getting stuck. Anything
> can get stuck.
> > >
> > > And for the record, I don't like trying to
> compare a Jeep to a Hummer.
> >They
> > > are two WAY different vehicles. I don't think
> the H2 is intended for
> > > hardcore 4x4 action anyway. It's a neat rig and
> I personally would love
> >to
> > > have one, but Jeep and Hummer cover two
> different markets in my opinion.
> > > Kind of like comparing a fullsize extended cab
> Ford 4x4 to a Jeep. Sure
> >a
> > > lifted full size truck can go through 4 feet of
> snow but it doesn't rock
> > > crawl well.
> > >
> > > Lastly, I've seen several stock Jeeps from the
> club out there wheeling.
> >My
> > > latest Jeep is mostly still stock and we wheel
> it all the time. Sorry I
> > > don't have $40,000 right now to drop in a
> Corvette engine, 39 inch tires
> >and
> > > locked Dana 60's all around.
> > >
> > > Oh and if anyway should get flamed it's Frank
> for instigating this whole
> > > argument by posting that picture :-).
> > >
> > > ---------------
> > > Bill Hooven
> > > Jeeps Only
> > > http://www.jeepsonly.com
> > > A Yahoo-style directory of Jeep links
> > >
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...>
> > > To: <jeepindog@y...>;
> <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 4:30 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > > Besides, how many of us wheel stock Jeeps
> anyway?
> > > >
> > > > Scott K
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>
> [mailto:jeepindog@y...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:12 PM
> > > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > KIA is not a bad manufacturer. In fact,
> they make some pretty
> > > > decent vehicles. Remember when a Honda was
> the cheapest piece of
> > > > ****e you could find on the road? (I do.)
> KIA never made a cheap
>
=== message truncated ===
=====
"Silly boys, JEEPs are for girls!"
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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76418 From: Trujillo, Jeff <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:38am
Subject: RE: Re: Rubicon VS H2
It was an awesome sight. One of them had air bags so whenever he felt like
it he would flip a switch and either air up or down a bag and looked like he
had hydraulics like the lowriders. It was pretty impressive to say the
least!
Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice:(480)346-6249
Fax:(480)346-6813
-----Original Message-----
From: Beatriz Galsim [mailto:bgalsim@y...]
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 10:53 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
That's kinda scary to hear about a sukie...wish I had
been there to see that.
BEA
--- "Trujillo, Jeff" <jeff.trujillo@m...>
wrote:
> I have to agree with Frank. I was there when the
> sukie made everyone gasp
> and say "wholly s**t". They did an awesome job
> climbing anything they came
> up too. If I had the money I would build one for the
> heck of it :o) But
> still keep the JEEP!
>
> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> Field Service Representative
> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> jeff.trujillo@m...
> Voice:(480)346-6249
> Fax:(480)346-6813
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 10:05 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
>
> I will be the first to admit that I wheeled with a
> zukie a few weeks back
> that put my rig to shame......I love my jeep and
> will always have one, but
> my next side project will probably be a zukie. You
> can pick one up dirt
> cheap, the transfer cases can be run in series for
> low gearing (again
> cheap), if you roll it bad enough- just take off
> your axles (which is where
> all your money ends up going anyway), and throw it
> away and find another
> one!
>
> Frank
> BadAzXJ@m...
> BadAZZukie@m...
> ???????????????????????????????????????
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Michael Beckham" <jeepnut7261@h...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>,"Bill - Jeeps Only"
> <bill@j...>
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:08:58 -0700
> >
> >yes this is a fanatical jeep club, (wait while I
> wipe the foam from my
> >mouth)
> >but who would have thought the Zukes would get a
> following when they first
> >came out?
> >I personally will give up my Jeep when they pry my
> cold dead fingers off
> >the
> >steering wheel, but I also recognize the need for
> other vehicles out there.
> >How else would we be able to point out the
> short-comings of others if they
> >were not around to look down at?
> >When I wheel and occasionally look down to see what
> vehicle I'm driving
> >over
> >(I think I'll invent a plexiglass floor so I can
> wave as I pass over those
> >poor pitiful vehicles and the whining misguided
> owners thereof) I am
> >thankful that I did not fall victim to the
> platitudes of blatantly false
> >advertising and buy something else that claims to
> be "as good as" my Jeep.
> >So when you see some poor soul show up with his KIA
> modified with dana 60's
> >and 35" tires, and ARB's, just remember, he was
> trying to copy what we do
> >with a JEEP!
> >
> >Imitation is the most sincere type of flattery.
> >
> >
> >Thank You!
> >Michael (whyareyoulisteningtomeanyway) Beckham
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:39 PM
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > > Oops, sorry, I thought I posted my message to
> the Arizona Virtual JEEP
> >Club.
> > > Last I heard, most of us here were fanatics
> about Jeeps. Sure, Kia makes
>
> >a
> > > good lil sport ute (and I mean that) but you
> can't compare it to a Jeep.
> >And
> > > if I was stuck and there were 7 Jeeps and 1 Kia
> Sportage around, I would
> > > first go to the Jeeps to ask for a tug. If there
> wasn't a Jeep around I
> > > would be very appreciative if the Kia would
> help. As for the god
> >complex,
> >I
> > > think our Jeeps have earned the right to be
> revered as offroad titans,
> >don't
> > > you? They are in a class by themselves and no
> other manufacturer has
> > > anything comparible. Besides, every vehicle make
> has its fanatics. I
> >have
> > > Toyota truck friends that feel the same way
> about Toyota that some of us
> > > feel about our Jeeps (there is NO way they want
> to be pulled out by a
> >Jeep
> > > unless there is no other choice). Oh and getting
> stuck can be fun, too.
> >Ya
> > > can't blame the Jeep for getting stuck. Anything
> can get stuck.
> > >
> > > And for the record, I don't like trying to
> compare a Jeep to a Hummer.
> >They
> > > are two WAY different vehicles. I don't think
> the H2 is intended for
> > > hardcore 4x4 action anyway. It's a neat rig and
> I personally would love
> >to
> > > have one, but Jeep and Hummer cover two
> different markets in my opinion.
> > > Kind of like comparing a fullsize extended cab
> Ford 4x4 to a Jeep. Sure
> >a
> > > lifted full size truck can go through 4 feet of
> snow but it doesn't rock
> > > crawl well.
> > >
> > > Lastly, I've seen several stock Jeeps from the
> club out there wheeling.
> >My
> > > latest Jeep is mostly still stock and we wheel
> it all the time. Sorry I
> > > don't have $40,000 right now to drop in a
> Corvette engine, 39 inch tires
> >and
> > > locked Dana 60's all around.
> > >
> > > Oh and if anyway should get flamed it's Frank
> for instigating this whole
> > > argument by posting that picture :-).
> > >
> > > ---------------
> > > Bill Hooven
> > > Jeeps Only
> > > http://www.jeepsonly.com
> > > A Yahoo-style directory of Jeep links
> > >
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...>
> > > To: <jeepindog@y...>;
> <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 4:30 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > > Besides, how many of us wheel stock Jeeps
> anyway?
> > > >
> > > > Scott K
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>
> [mailto:jeepindog@y...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:12 PM
> > > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > KIA is not a bad manufacturer. In fact,
> they make some pretty
> > > > decent vehicles. Remember when a Honda was
> the cheapest piece of
> > > > ****e you could find on the road? (I do.)
> KIA never made a cheap
>
=== message truncated ===
=====
"Silly boys, JEEPs are for girls!"
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
76419 From: Beatriz Galsim <bgalsim@y...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 10:02am
Subject: RE: Re: Rubicon VS H2
LOL...Man I totally missed it. Lowrider style huh?!
LOL...LOL...sounds impressive.
Bea
--- "Trujillo, Jeff" <jeff.trujillo@m...>
wrote:
> It was an awesome sight. One of them had air bags so
> whenever he felt like
> it he would flip a switch and either air up or down
> a bag and looked like he
> had hydraulics like the lowriders. It was pretty
> impressive to say the
> least!
>
> Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> Field Service Representative
> MD Helicopters, Inc.
> jeff.trujillo@m...
> Voice:(480)346-6249
> Fax:(480)346-6813
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Beatriz Galsim [mailto:bgalsim@y...]
> Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 10:53 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> That's kinda scary to hear about a sukie...wish I
> had
> been there to see that.
> BEA
> --- "Trujillo, Jeff"
> <jeff.trujillo@m...>
> wrote:
> > I have to agree with Frank. I was there when the
> > sukie made everyone gasp
> > and say "wholly s**t". They did an awesome job
> > climbing anything they came
> > up too. If I had the money I would build one for
> the
> > heck of it :o) But
> > still keep the JEEP!
> >
> > Jeffrey A. Trujillo
> > Field Service Representative
> > MD Helicopters, Inc.
> > jeff.trujillo@m...
> > Voice:(480)346-6249
> > Fax:(480)346-6813
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> > Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 10:05 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> >
> > I will be the first to admit that I wheeled with a
> > zukie a few weeks back
> > that put my rig to shame......I love my jeep and
> > will always have one, but
> > my next side project will probably be a zukie. You
> > can pick one up dirt
> > cheap, the transfer cases can be run in series for
> > low gearing (again
> > cheap), if you roll it bad enough- just take off
> > your axles (which is where
> > all your money ends up going anyway), and throw it
> > away and find another
> > one!
> >
> > Frank
> > BadAzXJ@m...
> > BadAZZukie@m...
> > ???????????????????????????????????????
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Michael Beckham" <jeepnut7261@h...>
> > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>,"Bill - Jeeps Only"
> > <bill@j...>
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:08:58 -0700
> > >
> > >yes this is a fanatical jeep club, (wait while I
> > wipe the foam from my
> > >mouth)
> > >but who would have thought the Zukes would get a
> > following when they first
> > >came out?
> > >I personally will give up my Jeep when they pry
> my
> > cold dead fingers off
> > >the
> > >steering wheel, but I also recognize the need for
> > other vehicles out there.
> > >How else would we be able to point out the
> > short-comings of others if they
> > >were not around to look down at?
> > >When I wheel and occasionally look down to see
> what
> > vehicle I'm driving
> > >over
> > >(I think I'll invent a plexiglass floor so I can
> > wave as I pass over those
> > >poor pitiful vehicles and the whining misguided
> > owners thereof) I am
> > >thankful that I did not fall victim to t