Yahoo Messages: 76377-76401

[blooddrive]

76377-76401

76377 From: <cowboy7575@a...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 5:49pm
Subject: Re: East Valley Jeep Show/Get-together


I guess I could make it if you could stand a fairly stock 96 ZJ amongst the rest of ya :-)

Mike


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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76378 From: tj_angel_113 <angel_113_@h...> <angel_113_@h...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 0:14am
Subject: Re: Where to buy reamers?


I believe Harbor freight sells the right size. Don't remember where
I read that, but I know they have reamers. Might want to check them
out for those one-time use tools.

Angel

--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Mitch Woodward" <mitchwoodward@h...>
wrote:
> These might be a snap-on item. I believe you need the correct
sized tapered
> ream to get the press fit with the tie rod ends. Home depot
carries nothing
> like it. Maybe a Napa or something like that would.
>
> Mitch
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Krieg" <rv6a@m...>
> To: "Arizona Virtual Jeep Club" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 7:20 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Where to buy reamers?
>
>
> > I need to ream the holes in my steering knuckles to accept the
new 1
> > ton ends I got. Are these available in places like Loews or Home
Depot?
> > Is there any specific type I need to buy?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >


76379 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 0:19am
Subject: RE: OT (?) Need a job to keep Jeep. If you can't help, please delete!


Hang in there man. I've been there and it was the club that helped me.
Do you have your resume posted or can you send a copy? In case I hear of
something. Good luck.

Joey K
http://www.desertjeep.com
93YJ


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Gevarter <gev39@y...> [mailto:gev39@y...]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 6:49 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OT (?) Need a job to keep Jeep. If you can't help,
please delete!


Wife says the Jeep will have to go soon...I need help!
I feel really bad asking this group for employment help, but you
guys are about my only friends. I have avoided doing so for almost a
year since I lost my job last March...
But heres the situation: I have used up my savings, cashed out my
401k, my wife's 401k, run up our credit cards to their limits,
borrowed all of my mother's money. Right now I don't think we can
pay mortgage next month, not to mention the other bills.

I'm a Telephone/Data network technician with PBX and Central Office
experience, also Cisco CCNA certified. I will be glad to send a
resume, please e-mail me off-list.

I pretty much expect to flamed for sending this, I can take it.
Flame away!
Russell Gevarter





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


76380 From: Mitch Woodward <mitchwoodward@h...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 0:23am
Subject: Re: Re: Where to buy reamers?


I searched their site for "reamer" and came up with some stuff for small
holes, but they are all much smaller than the reamer I saw the fab shop use
on knuckles for a steering mod.

Mitch
----- Original Message -----
From: <angel_113_@h...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 1:14 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Where to buy reamers?


> I believe Harbor freight sells the right size. Don't remember where
> I read that, but I know they have reamers. Might want to check them
> out for those one-time use tools.
>
> Angel
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Mitch Woodward" <mitchwoodward@h...>
> wrote:
> > These might be a snap-on item. I believe you need the correct
> sized tapered
> > ream to get the press fit with the tie rod ends. Home depot
> carries nothing
> > like it. Maybe a Napa or something like that would.
> >
> > Mitch
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chris Krieg" <rv6a@m...>
> > To: "Arizona Virtual Jeep Club" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 7:20 AM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Where to buy reamers?
> >
> >
> > > I need to ream the holes in my steering knuckles to accept the
> new 1
> > > ton ends I got. Are these available in places like Loews or Home
> Depot?
> > > Is there any specific type I need to buy?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


76381 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 0:38am
Subject: RE: OT (?) Need a job to keep Jeep. If you can't help, please delete!


If I hear of anything I'll let you know.

Good luck!

Scott K

-----Original Message-----
From: DesertJeep [mailto:joey@d...]
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 1:19 AM
To: gev39@y...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] OT (?) Need a job to keep Jeep. If you can't help,
please delete!


Hang in there man. I've been there and it was the club that helped me.
Do you have your resume posted or can you send a copy? In case I hear of
something. Good luck.

Joey K
http://www.desertjeep.com
93YJ


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Gevarter <gev39@y...> [mailto:gev39@y...]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 6:49 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OT (?) Need a job to keep Jeep. If you can't help,
please delete!


Wife says the Jeep will have to go soon...I need help!
I feel really bad asking this group for employment help, but you
guys are about my only friends. I have avoided doing so for almost a
year since I lost my job last March...
But heres the situation: I have used up my savings, cashed out my
401k, my wife's 401k, run up our credit cards to their limits,
borrowed all of my mother's money. Right now I don't think we can
pay mortgage next month, not to mention the other bills.

I'm a Telephone/Data network technician with PBX and Central Office
experience, also Cisco CCNA certified. I will be glad to send a
resume, please e-mail me off-list.

I pretty much expect to flamed for sending this, I can take it.
Flame away!
Russell Gevarter





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


76382 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 3:14am
Subject: [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, February 8, 2003


Hello All,

BIG JOHN WHITAKER is leading a Coke Ovens trail run on Saturday, February 8, 2003.

When:
Where:
Rating: 2.5+
Length: 5 hours
CB Channel:

Small group going to box canyon, then to the coke ovens, easy trip, bring lunch!

The Coke Ovens Trail is an all day trip. It covers a lot of different countryside, traveling over and around the rolling hills and traverse some rocks and ledges in the road.



Years ago the Coke Ovens were built to support some of the smelters at the nearby mines. It's a fairly common misconception that they made coke, which is made from coal. However, they were built to make charcoal from the then more plentiful mesquite of the Gila Valley.



Over the years they have been closed to the public numerous times and several have been used as "housing" for the hermits of the hills. At one point (so the story goes) an owner attempted to convert them into a type of tourist resort - and started to make rooms out of them. You can still see the lofts he installed in some of them. This project was never finished.



At this time we are able to see and explore these amazing creations. They are located on the side of a hill along the Gila River and are quite spectacular.



Across the Gila is the old town site of Chochran. If the water is low, there is a river crossing to the west of Chochran that can be taken for an exit out to the Florence-Kelvin Highway



This trail is definitely a favorite for all levels of 4-wheelers. Stock vehicles shouldn't have any problems although clearance is highly recommended. There are several areas of "rock stair steps" that will be a challenge to the novice or stock driver.



Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!

Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List

Thank You,

- The AzVJC Website


76383 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 5:03am
Subject: [TR] Unspecified - Saturday, January 25, 2003 - Reminder


Hello All,

Brad Kilgore is leading an Unspecified trail run on Saturday, January 25, 2003.

When: 7:00AM Saturday morning before the Table Mesa Cleanup
Where: Denny's, Deer Valley West of I-17
Rating: None
Length: 1 hour
CB Channel: 4

A few of us are meeting for breakfast/coffee before heading out to the cleanup. The Dennys is on the South Side of Deer Valley Rd., just west of I-17. We will meet around 7:00AM and head up to Table Mesa around 8:00AM.

Need lots of nourishment for all the hard work we are about to do&.

See you Saturday.

Brad




Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List

Thank You,

- The AzVJC Website


76384 From: Michael Beckham <jeepnut7261@h...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 6:08am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2


yes this is a fanatical jeep club, (wait while I wipe the foam from my
mouth)
but who would have thought the Zukes would get a following when they first
came out?
I personally will give up my Jeep when they pry my cold dead fingers off the
steering wheel, but I also recognize the need for other vehicles out there.
How else would we be able to point out the short-comings of others if they
were not around to look down at?
When I wheel and occasionally look down to see what vehicle I'm driving over
(I think I'll invent a plexiglass floor so I can wave as I pass over those
poor pitiful vehicles and the whining misguided owners thereof) I am
thankful that I did not fall victim to the platitudes of blatantly false
advertising and buy something else that claims to be "as good as" my Jeep.
So when you see some poor soul show up with his KIA modified with dana 60's
and 35" tires, and ARB's, just remember, he was trying to copy what we do
with a JEEP!

Imitation is the most sincere type of flattery.


Thank You!
Michael (whyareyoulisteningtomeanyway) Beckham



----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2


> Oops, sorry, I thought I posted my message to the Arizona Virtual JEEP
Club.
> Last I heard, most of us here were fanatics about Jeeps. Sure, Kia makes a
> good lil sport ute (and I mean that) but you can't compare it to a Jeep.
And
> if I was stuck and there were 7 Jeeps and 1 Kia Sportage around, I would
> first go to the Jeeps to ask for a tug. If there wasn't a Jeep around I
> would be very appreciative if the Kia would help. As for the god complex,
I
> think our Jeeps have earned the right to be revered as offroad titans,
don't
> you? They are in a class by themselves and no other manufacturer has
> anything comparible. Besides, every vehicle make has its fanatics. I have
> Toyota truck friends that feel the same way about Toyota that some of us
> feel about our Jeeps (there is NO way they want to be pulled out by a Jeep
> unless there is no other choice). Oh and getting stuck can be fun, too. Ya
> can't blame the Jeep for getting stuck. Anything can get stuck.
>
> And for the record, I don't like trying to compare a Jeep to a Hummer.
They
> are two WAY different vehicles. I don't think the H2 is intended for
> hardcore 4x4 action anyway. It's a neat rig and I personally would love to
> have one, but Jeep and Hummer cover two different markets in my opinion.
> Kind of like comparing a fullsize extended cab Ford 4x4 to a Jeep. Sure a
> lifted full size truck can go through 4 feet of snow but it doesn't rock
> crawl well.
>
> Lastly, I've seen several stock Jeeps from the club out there wheeling. My
> latest Jeep is mostly still stock and we wheel it all the time. Sorry I
> don't have $40,000 right now to drop in a Corvette engine, 39 inch tires
and
> locked Dana 60's all around.
>
> Oh and if anyway should get flamed it's Frank for instigating this whole
> argument by posting that picture :-).
>
> ---------------
> Bill Hooven
> Jeeps Only
> http://www.jeepsonly.com
> A Yahoo-style directory of Jeep links
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...>
> To: <jeepindog@y...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 4:30 PM
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> > Besides, how many of us wheel stock Jeeps anyway?
> >
> > Scott K
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...> [mailto:jeepindog@y...]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:12 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > KIA is not a bad manufacturer. In fact, they make some pretty
> > decent vehicles. Remember when a Honda was the cheapest piece of
> > ****e you could find on the road? (I do.) KIA never made a cheap
> > car, but they do make some very inexpensive cars. The fact that they
> > make one with a two-speed transfer case that did pretty well in the
> > 4x4 of the Year comparison (the actual 'wheelin part) that is
> > actually affordable and well-made should earn it some well-deserved
> > respect. Jeep Jeep Jeep. Don't you guys ever get tired of eating
> > the same thing for lunch? I will always own my Jeep, and love it and
> > all Jeeps. There are other vehicles out there that are very good at
> > some of the things that Jeeps are good at. Not *as* good, but
> > close. And if a Jeep driver just happens to get the Jeep stuck
> > (won't mention driver's ability) who cares who pulls it out? Maybe
> > DC should start charging extra for the God Complex that comes with
> > owning a Jeep!
> >
> > Lachlan
> >
> >
> > In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Clint Ramsey" <cwramsey@t...> wrote:
> > >
> > > I almost vomited when I opened that picture
> > >
> > > Clint
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
> > > To: Joe-CJ7@J...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> > > arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > Kia pulling TJ....
> > >
> > > (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com
> > oops
> > > section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
> > > sunday)
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


76385 From: Daver <daver@i...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 6:17am
Subject: [OT] The Lonely Four-Wheelers Prayer


The Lonely Four-Wheelers Prayer
By Katrina & Les Tremblett, Keswick, Ontario, Canada

Now I lay me down to sleep,
All four tires are buried axle deep.
In the mud I went to play,
I got stuck so here I stay.
All alone I sit in my truck,
Someone help me please, I'm really stuck.
I was always told never go out alone,
Now I'm here in the middle of nowhere without a phone.
My calls for help go on un-noticed,
Only if I could have kept focused.
My only communication is my CB,
I hope that someone will soon come and rescue me.
I finally decided to go out in the mud,
And my footing slips and I fall with a THUD!
To the front of my truck I slip and I slide,
So far the only thing hurt is my pride.
My winch cable runs out as easy as can be,
I only hope that it will reach the tree.
Back in my truck, I flip the switch,
I pray, dear God, it does the trick.
Just when I thought I'd go insane,
Out of the mud I finally came.
I was on my way, finally heading home,
And I told myself, never again will I go out alone !!!!!

(found on pirate4x4.com)
--
Daver
daver@i...
2003-01-24


76386 From: Joe-CJ7 <Joe-CJ7@j...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 6:19am
Subject: RE: OT (?) Need a job to keep Jeep. If you can't help, please delete!


Russell,

That sucks but we all have been there to some extent. If anyone would
flame they should walk a mile in your shoes!!!

I do not know of anything but maybe you can send me your resume and I
will get it out there with everyone else.

Joe Kearney
Joe-CJ7@J...


-----Original Message-----
From: Russell Gevarter <gev39@y...> [mailto:gev39@y...]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 6:49 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] OT (?) Need a job to keep Jeep. If you can't help,
please delete!


Wife says the Jeep will have to go soon...I need help!
I feel really bad asking this group for employment help, but you
guys are about my only friends. I have avoided doing so for almost a
year since I lost my job last March...
But heres the situation: I have used up my savings, cashed out my
401k, my wife's 401k, run up our credit cards to their limits,
borrowed all of my mother's money. Right now I don't think we can
pay mortgage next month, not to mention the other bills.

I'm a Telephone/Data network technician with PBX and Central Office
experience, also Cisco CCNA certified. I will be glad to send a
resume, please e-mail me off-list.

I pretty much expect to flamed for sending this, I can take it.
Flame away!
Russell Gevarter





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


76387 From: Joe-CJ7 <Joe-CJ7@j...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 6:20am
Subject: RE: [OT] The Lonely Four-Wheelers Prayer


Pretty cool. For now I will go out with someone because that is cheaper
then a winch.

Joe Kearney
Joe-CJ7@J...


-----Original Message-----
From: Daver [mailto:daver@i...]
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 7:17 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] [OT] The Lonely Four-Wheelers Prayer

The Lonely Four-Wheelers Prayer
By Katrina & Les Tremblett, Keswick, Ontario, Canada

Now I lay me down to sleep,
All four tires are buried axle deep.
In the mud I went to play,
I got stuck so here I stay.
All alone I sit in my truck,
Someone help me please, I'm really stuck.
I was always told never go out alone,
Now I'm here in the middle of nowhere without a phone.
My calls for help go on un-noticed,
Only if I could have kept focused.
My only communication is my CB,
I hope that someone will soon come and rescue me.
I finally decided to go out in the mud,
And my footing slips and I fall with a THUD!
To the front of my truck I slip and I slide,
So far the only thing hurt is my pride.
My winch cable runs out as easy as can be,
I only hope that it will reach the tree.
Back in my truck, I flip the switch,
I pray, dear God, it does the trick.
Just when I thought I'd go insane,
Out of the mud I finally came.
I was on my way, finally heading home,
And I told myself, never again will I go out alone !!!!!

(found on pirate4x4.com)
--
Daver
daver@i...
2003-01-24





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


76388 From: Michael Beckham <jeepnut7261@h...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 6:25am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2


Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. The reason I'm in the VJC is due to
my experience with this and other club members.
I had run into other groups, and was treated poorly (bad language, bad
attitudes just all around the typical stereotype that non-jeepers expect)
but when I was doing Crown King for the first time, I ran into a group from
VJC. they invited me to join the run, and really made myself and my family
(most important, it's a family thing) feel welcome.
As for the gears, I re-geared to 4.56's and am VERY happy. I run 33's, and
it is a good match with the 5-speed IMO.
If you call Desert rat in Peoria (19th ave) they use Kong for gears. The
service was excellent, and they stand behind their work. Sorry I don't have
a number.


----- Original Message -----
From: <kdberanek@c...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:58 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2


>
> I was the driver of the TJ that got stuck the KIA strapped to it was
> a joke. It actually took two jeap with winches and two or three more
> as anchors to pull me out. It was more like wet clay than mud. I
> want to thank those who lended a hand put I gotta say most "club"
> members that were there were quite content to sit in lawn chairs next
> to their jeeps and watch. In fact a few actually got mad because of
> the time it took to pull me out. Fortunately this is not the first
> club run I have been on or I would probably not go on one again.
> Some of the comments made to me were pretty bad. I got the jeep 3
> months ago and while it is no rock crawling monster I'm proud of it.
> I won't comment to much on the driver ability part. Put I have 20
> years of off road driving experience. Granted not in a TJ will take
> sometime and a few more trips to totally get a feel for it's
> ability. Driver error was thinking a totally open jeep with 3.07
> gears and 33in tires could go thru what appeared to be a very shallow
> mud hole that turned out was over 2 feet deep. BTW speaking of
> gearing I just obtained a set of gears and carriers from a club
> member but need help getting them put in. Any volunteers? or
> recommendations on where to go and approximate cost. Cost is for
> help from club member too.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...> wrote:
> > Besides, how many of us wheel stock Jeeps anyway?
> >
> > Scott K
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...> [mailto:jeepindog@y...]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:12 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > KIA is not a bad manufacturer. In fact, they make some pretty
> > decent vehicles. Remember when a Honda was the cheapest piece of
> > ****e you could find on the road? (I do.) KIA never made a cheap
> > car, but they do make some very inexpensive cars. The fact that
> they
> > make one with a two-speed transfer case that did pretty well in the
> > 4x4 of the Year comparison (the actual 'wheelin part) that is
> > actually affordable and well-made should earn it some well-deserved
> > respect. Jeep Jeep Jeep. Don't you guys ever get tired of eating
> > the same thing for lunch? I will always own my Jeep, and love it
> and
> > all Jeeps. There are other vehicles out there that are very good
> at
> > some of the things that Jeeps are good at. Not *as* good, but
> > close. And if a Jeep driver just happens to get the Jeep stuck
> > (won't mention driver's ability) who cares who pulls it out? Maybe
> > DC should start charging extra for the God Complex that comes with
> > owning a Jeep!
> >
> > Lachlan
> >
> >
> > In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Clint Ramsey" <cwramsey@t...> wrote:
> > >
> > > I almost vomited when I opened that picture
> > >
> > > Clint
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
> > > To: Joe-CJ7@J...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> > > arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > Kia pulling TJ....
> > >
> > > (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com
> > oops
> > > section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
> > > sunday)
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@J...>
> > > >To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
> > > >
> > > >Frank,
> > > >
> > > >Where can I find the pictures?
> > > >
> > > >Joe Kearney
> > > >Joe-CJ7@J...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
> > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ
> side......
> > > > > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> > > > >
> > > > > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too
> bad...... :) The
> >
> > > > > nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people
> > > just
> > > >say
> > > > > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I
> get
> > my
> > > junk
> > > > > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > > > > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few
> > good
> > > >shots
> > > >of
> > > > > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from
> > > Sunday).....
> > > > >
> > > > > Frank
> > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> > > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > > > > >
> > > > > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig. I
> love
> > > > > >my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The
> > H2
> > > would
> > > >be
> > > > > >ok
> > > > > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for
> > free...I'd
> > >
> > > >sell
> > > >it
> > > > > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Martin
> > > > > >
> > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP
> > magazine
> > > doing
> > > >the
> > > > > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand
> > due to
> > > the
> > > > > >rubicons
> > > > > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the
> > stupid
> > > IFS,
> > > >I
> > > > > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday
> anyway. I
> > > have
> > > >kids
> > > > > >that
> > > > > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without
> worrying
> > > about
> > > > > >people
> > > > > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear.
> > Plus I
> > > like
> > > >my
> > > > > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound
> > system.
> > > >Before
> > > > > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will
> admit
> > that
> > > a
> > > >stock
> > > > > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and
> cash
> > into
> > > my
> > > >rig
> > > > > >to
> > > > > > > hang in.
> > > > > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be
> > too
> > > wide
> > > >but
> > > > > >if
> > > > > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just
> pull a
> > > rock
> > > >buggy
> > > > > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never
> > engage
> > > the
> > > >locker
> > > > > > > anyway)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Frank
> > > > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > > > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A
> > Rubicon
> > > gets
> > > >31"
> > > > > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room,
> > > probably
> > > > > > > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also
> has a
> > > bigger
> > > > > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably
> gets
> > more
> > > > > > > >envious looks (without a single modification) than most
> > Jeeps
> > > that
> > > > > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really
> > > matters...)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except
> > under
> > > the
> > > > > > > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires.
> That
> > > "road
> > > > > > > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me
> nauseous.
> > > What a
> > > > > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a
> > special
> > > > > > > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit
> with
> > a
> > > lack
> > > >of
> > > > > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground
> up,
> > and
> > > the
> > > > > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically
> > only
> > > >upgraded
> > > > > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and
> > rear
> > > > > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some
> > badass
> > > > > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper
> > use
> > > of AL
> > > > > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would
> have a
> > > hard
> > > >time
> > > > > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one?
> > Ever
> > > >ridden
> > > > > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I
> have
> > > done
> > > >all
> > > > > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2
> > might be
> > > a
> > > >fun
> > > > > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s
> > on
> > > the H2
> > > > > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep?
> > > (Besides
> > > >the
> > > > > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving
> > other
> > >
> > > >rigs
> > > > > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect.
> Yeah,
> > we
> > > all
> > > > > > > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne,
> > would
> > > you?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look
> > at an
> > > H-2
> > > >in
> > > > > > > >TX on
> > > > > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards,
> didnt
> > look
> > >
> > > >like
> > > > > > > >it was too
> > > > > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance
> > in the
> > > >middle
> > > > > > > >but none
> > > > > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock
> > ZJ
> > > looks
> > > > > > > >like it has
> > > > > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon,
> > I saw
> > > one
> > > >at
> > > > > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that
> > either
> > > for
> > > > > > > >the price,
> > > > > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied
> > with
> > > my YJ
> > > > > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > > > > :-)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > > > > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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> > > > >
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> > __________________________________________________ _______________
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> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


76389 From: Daver <daver@i...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 6:33am
Subject: Re: Lift kit


It is not that difficult to do, you have to pull the leaf spring pack, open it up, insert the leaf, and then close it back up and reinstall it. Times 2 (or four.) If you are going the add-a-leaf route for a little extra clearance, make sure you get full
length add-a-leafs, your back will thank you for not getting the little short stiff ones.

======= At 2003-01-24, 06:20:00 rustydunmire <rustydunmire wrote: =======

>I was wondering if any one has installed an add-a-leaf lift?
>If so if I could get some feedback I would appriciate it.
>
>Thanks Rusty
>
>rustydunmire@m...

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Daver
daver@i...
2003-01-24


76390 From: Mitch Woodward <mitchwoodward@h...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 6:38am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2


ummm, don't we all swap axles, put on big meats, and install lockers too? I
think the Kia with 60's, 35's, and ARB's would probably wheel the crap out
of a unmodified jeep, any model...

Mitch
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Beckham" <jeepnut7261@h...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>; "Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 7:08 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2


> yes this is a fanatical jeep club, (wait while I wipe the foam from my
> mouth)
> but who would have thought the Zukes would get a following when they first
> came out?
> I personally will give up my Jeep when they pry my cold dead fingers off
the
> steering wheel, but I also recognize the need for other vehicles out
there.
> How else would we be able to point out the short-comings of others if they
> were not around to look down at?
> When I wheel and occasionally look down to see what vehicle I'm driving
over
> (I think I'll invent a plexiglass floor so I can wave as I pass over those
> poor pitiful vehicles and the whining misguided owners thereof) I am
> thankful that I did not fall victim to the platitudes of blatantly false
> advertising and buy something else that claims to be "as good as" my Jeep.
> So when you see some poor soul show up with his KIA modified with dana
60's
> and 35" tires, and ARB's, just remember, he was trying to copy what we do
> with a JEEP!
>
> Imitation is the most sincere type of flattery.
>
>
> Thank You!
> Michael (whyareyoulisteningtomeanyway) Beckham
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> > Oops, sorry, I thought I posted my message to the Arizona Virtual JEEP
> Club.
> > Last I heard, most of us here were fanatics about Jeeps. Sure, Kia makes
a
> > good lil sport ute (and I mean that) but you can't compare it to a Jeep.
> And
> > if I was stuck and there were 7 Jeeps and 1 Kia Sportage around, I would
> > first go to the Jeeps to ask for a tug. If there wasn't a Jeep around I
> > would be very appreciative if the Kia would help. As for the god
complex,
> I
> > think our Jeeps have earned the right to be revered as offroad titans,
> don't
> > you? They are in a class by themselves and no other manufacturer has
> > anything comparible. Besides, every vehicle make has its fanatics. I
have
> > Toyota truck friends that feel the same way about Toyota that some of us
> > feel about our Jeeps (there is NO way they want to be pulled out by a
Jeep
> > unless there is no other choice). Oh and getting stuck can be fun, too.
Ya
> > can't blame the Jeep for getting stuck. Anything can get stuck.
> >
> > And for the record, I don't like trying to compare a Jeep to a Hummer.
> They
> > are two WAY different vehicles. I don't think the H2 is intended for
> > hardcore 4x4 action anyway. It's a neat rig and I personally would love
to
> > have one, but Jeep and Hummer cover two different markets in my opinion.
> > Kind of like comparing a fullsize extended cab Ford 4x4 to a Jeep. Sure
a
> > lifted full size truck can go through 4 feet of snow but it doesn't rock
> > crawl well.
> >
> > Lastly, I've seen several stock Jeeps from the club out there wheeling.
My
> > latest Jeep is mostly still stock and we wheel it all the time. Sorry I
> > don't have $40,000 right now to drop in a Corvette engine, 39 inch tires
> and
> > locked Dana 60's all around.
> >
> > Oh and if anyway should get flamed it's Frank for instigating this whole
> > argument by posting that picture :-).
> >
> > ---------------
> > Bill Hooven
> > Jeeps Only
> > http://www.jeepsonly.com
> > A Yahoo-style directory of Jeep links
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...>
> > To: <jeepindog@y...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 4:30 PM
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > > Besides, how many of us wheel stock Jeeps anyway?
> > >
> > > Scott K
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...> [mailto:jeepindog@y...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:12 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > KIA is not a bad manufacturer. In fact, they make some pretty
> > > decent vehicles. Remember when a Honda was the cheapest piece of
> > > ****e you could find on the road? (I do.) KIA never made a cheap
> > > car, but they do make some very inexpensive cars. The fact that they
> > > make one with a two-speed transfer case that did pretty well in the
> > > 4x4 of the Year comparison (the actual 'wheelin part) that is
> > > actually affordable and well-made should earn it some well-deserved
> > > respect. Jeep Jeep Jeep. Don't you guys ever get tired of eating
> > > the same thing for lunch? I will always own my Jeep, and love it and
> > > all Jeeps. There are other vehicles out there that are very good at
> > > some of the things that Jeeps are good at. Not *as* good, but
> > > close. And if a Jeep driver just happens to get the Jeep stuck
> > > (won't mention driver's ability) who cares who pulls it out? Maybe
> > > DC should start charging extra for the God Complex that comes with
> > > owning a Jeep!
> > >
> > > Lachlan
> > >
> > >
> > > In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Clint Ramsey" <cwramsey@t...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I almost vomited when I opened that picture
> > > >
> > > > Clint
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
> > > > To: Joe-CJ7@J...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kia pulling TJ....
> > > >
> > > > (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com
> > > oops
> > > > section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
> > > > sunday)
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


76391 From: Michael Beckham <jeepnut7261@h...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 6:40am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2


DATS DA POINT! we are all 4-wheelers, what ever flavor you favor. just go
have fun!(whyareyoulisteningtomeanyway)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mitch Woodward" <mitchwoodward@h...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>; "Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>;
"Michael Beckham" <jeepnut7261@h...>
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2


> ummm, don't we all swap axles, put on big meats, and install lockers too?
I
> think the Kia with 60's, 35's, and ARB's would probably wheel the crap out
> of a unmodified jeep, any model...
>
> Mitch
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Beckham" <jeepnut7261@h...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>; "Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>
> Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 7:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> > yes this is a fanatical jeep club, (wait while I wipe the foam from my
> > mouth)
> > but who would have thought the Zukes would get a following when they
first
> > came out?
> > I personally will give up my Jeep when they pry my cold dead fingers off
> the
> > steering wheel, but I also recognize the need for other vehicles out
> there.
> > How else would we be able to point out the short-comings of others if
they
> > were not around to look down at?
> > When I wheel and occasionally look down to see what vehicle I'm driving
> over
> > (I think I'll invent a plexiglass floor so I can wave as I pass over
those
> > poor pitiful vehicles and the whining misguided owners thereof) I am
> > thankful that I did not fall victim to the platitudes of blatantly false
> > advertising and buy something else that claims to be "as good as" my
Jeep.
> > So when you see some poor soul show up with his KIA modified with dana
> 60's
> > and 35" tires, and ARB's, just remember, he was trying to copy what we
do
> > with a JEEP!
> >
> > Imitation is the most sincere type of flattery.
> >
> >
> > Thank You!
> > Michael (whyareyoulisteningtomeanyway) Beckham
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill - Jeeps Only" <bill@j...>
> > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > > Oops, sorry, I thought I posted my message to the Arizona Virtual JEEP
> > Club.
> > > Last I heard, most of us here were fanatics about Jeeps. Sure, Kia
makes
> a
> > > good lil sport ute (and I mean that) but you can't compare it to a
Jeep.
> > And
> > > if I was stuck and there were 7 Jeeps and 1 Kia Sportage around, I
would
> > > first go to the Jeeps to ask for a tug. If there wasn't a Jeep around
I
> > > would be very appreciative if the Kia would help. As for the god
> complex,
> > I
> > > think our Jeeps have earned the right to be revered as offroad titans,
> > don't
> > > you? They are in a class by themselves and no other manufacturer has
> > > anything comparible. Besides, every vehicle make has its fanatics. I
> have
> > > Toyota truck friends that feel the same way about Toyota that some of
us
> > > feel about our Jeeps (there is NO way they want to be pulled out by a
> Jeep
> > > unless there is no other choice). Oh and getting stuck can be fun,
too.
> Ya
> > > can't blame the Jeep for getting stuck. Anything can get stuck.
> > >
> > > And for the record, I don't like trying to compare a Jeep to a Hummer.
> > They
> > > are two WAY different vehicles. I don't think the H2 is intended for
> > > hardcore 4x4 action anyway. It's a neat rig and I personally would
love
> to
> > > have one, but Jeep and Hummer cover two different markets in my
opinion.
> > > Kind of like comparing a fullsize extended cab Ford 4x4 to a Jeep.
Sure
> a
> > > lifted full size truck can go through 4 feet of snow but it doesn't
rock
> > > crawl well.
> > >
> > > Lastly, I've seen several stock Jeeps from the club out there
wheeling.
> My
> > > latest Jeep is mostly still stock and we wheel it all the time. Sorry
I
> > > don't have $40,000 right now to drop in a Corvette engine, 39 inch
tires
> > and
> > > locked Dana 60's all around.
> > >
> > > Oh and if anyway should get flamed it's Frank for instigating this
whole
> > > argument by posting that picture :-).
> > >
> > > ---------------
> > > Bill Hooven
> > > Jeeps Only
> > > http://www.jeepsonly.com
> > > A Yahoo-style directory of Jeep links
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...>
> > > To: <jeepindog@y...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 4:30 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > > Besides, how many of us wheel stock Jeeps anyway?
> > > >
> > > > Scott K
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...> [mailto:jeepindog@y...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:12 PM
> > > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > KIA is not a bad manufacturer. In fact, they make some pretty
> > > > decent vehicles. Remember when a Honda was the cheapest piece of
> > > > ****e you could find on the road? (I do.) KIA never made a cheap
> > > > car, but they do make some very inexpensive cars. The fact that
they
> > > > make one with a two-speed transfer case that did pretty well in the
> > > > 4x4 of the Year comparison (the actual 'wheelin part) that is
> > > > actually affordable and well-made should earn it some well-deserved
> > > > respect. Jeep Jeep Jeep. Don't you guys ever get tired of eating
> > > > the same thing for lunch? I will always own my Jeep, and love it
and
> > > > all Jeeps. There are other vehicles out there that are very good at
> > > > some of the things that Jeeps are good at. Not *as* good, but
> > > > close. And if a Jeep driver just happens to get the Jeep stuck
> > > > (won't mention driver's ability) who cares who pulls it out? Maybe
> > > > DC should start charging extra for the God Complex that comes with
> > > > owning a Jeep!
> > > >
> > > > Lachlan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Clint Ramsey" <cwramsey@t...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I almost vomited when I opened that picture
> > > > >
> > > > > Clint
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
> > > > > To: Joe-CJ7@J...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > > arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Kia pulling TJ....
> > > > >
> > > > > (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com
> > > > oops
> > > > > section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
> > > > > sunday)
> > > > >
> > > > > Frank
> > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


76392 From: Ruben Aviles <raviles@a...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:03am
Subject: [OT] I need a roommate.


Anyone need a place to live in Gilbert? $380 a month. Garage, choice of
two rooms, I'm never there, so I'm just trying to find someone to help out
on the Mortgage. 480-988-5193(home) 602-323-1941 (work). Let me know.
----- Original Message -----
From: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 4:03 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Digest Number 3256


> There are 25 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. MS Star Valley
> From: "Bill Witt" <k7ant@t...>
> 2. Re: Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
> From: "Bill Witt" <k7ant@t...>
> 3. Re: [LU] New Book Examines Impacts of Roads and Off-Road
Vehicles]
> From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> 4. [FS] 33X12.50 MTR'S WITH CUSTOM ALLOY WHEELS-POWER TRAX FRONT
LOCKER FOR DANA 30
> From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
> 5. Re: 33x12.5
> From: "dbkcs <dbkcs@y...>" <dbkcs@y...>
> 6. Re: 33x12.5
> From: "dbkcs <dbkcs@y...>" <dbkcs@y...>
> 7. Re: Where to buy reamers?
> From: "Mitch Woodward" <mitchwoodward@h...>
> 8. Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
> From: "highjeeps <highupjeep@q...>" <highupjeep@q...>
> 9. Re: OT (?) Need a job to keep Jeep. If you can't help, please
delete!
> From: AZICE626@a...
> 10. RE: [FS] 33X12.50 MTR'S WITH CUSTOM ALLOY WHEELS-POWER TRAX FRONT
LOCKER FOR DANA 30
> From: "BradP Kilgore" <brad.kilgore@p...>
> 11. Re: Rubicon VS H2
> From: "jeep_thing01 <kdberanek@c...>" <kdberanek@c...>
> 12. Fwd: 2nd Annual Off Road Riders Foundation Charity Poker Run
(Southern California)
> From: John Stewart <landuse@u...>
> 13. Re: Table Mesa Cleanup wheeling?
> From: "Allan Alexander <ajalex15@c...>" <ajalex15@c...>
> 14. Fwd: Funding rejected for Southern California off-road dunes site
> From: John Stewart <landuse@u...>
> 15. Re: [FS] 33X12.50 MTR'S WITH CUSTOM ALLOY WHEELS-POWER TRAX FRONT
LOCKER FOR DANA 30
> From: "Rob Williams <g_rob_williams@y...>"
<g_rob_williams@y...>
> 16. Fwd: LA Times - Jan. 21 - Bush Road/RS2477 Plan
> From: John Stewart <landuse@u...>
> 17. Re: The compromised Sierra Club, a cheap political prostitute
> From: John Stewart <landuse@u...>
> 18. Lift kit
> From: "rustydunmire <rustydunmire@m...>"
<rustydunmire@m...>
> 19. Re: East Valley Jeep Show/Get-together
> From: cowboy7575@a...
> 20. Re: Where to buy reamers?
> From: "tj_angel_113 <angel_113_@h...>"
<angel_113_@h...>
> 21. RE: OT (?) Need a job to keep Jeep. If you can't help, please
delete!
> From: "DesertJeep" <joey@d...>
> 22. Re: Re: Where to buy reamers?
> From: "Mitch Woodward" <mitchwoodward@h...>
> 23. RE: OT (?) Need a job to keep Jeep. If you can't help, please
delete!
> From: "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...>
> 24. [TR] Coke Ovens - Saturday, February 8, 2003
> From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
> 25. [TR] Unspecified - Saturday, January 25, 2003 - Reminder
> From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 20:35:10 -0700
> From: "Bill Witt" <k7ant@t...>
> Subject: MS Star Valley
>
> I think it was Ross Skinner's nice monster CJ. Hi Ross, saw you about
5:45PM Thursday night. There was also a red TJ behind you, but don't know if
he was with you. Here's another wave. (I was going north in the white tj.)
> Bill W
> K7ANT a.k.a. "Antman"
> 97 TJ with a few mods.
> Up on the Mogollon Rim in Arizona.
> God and 4 wheelers' country!
>
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 20:19:10 -0700
> From: "Bill Witt" <k7ant@t...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
>
> Just for your info Larry, I'm still pissed about it!
> Bill W
> K7ANT a.k.a. "Antman"
> 97 TJ with a few mods.
> Up on the Mogollon Rim in Arizona.
> God and 4 wheelers' country!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <highupjeep@q...>
> To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 2:03 PM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
>
>
> > Stu (and all),
> >
> > I bring this up because it is my recollection that it was the pretty
> > much the consensus of the group (or at least of those posting
> > opinions at the time) once it was identified who it was that did the
> > modifying and why it was done, that it was then somehow justified.
> > When it was first posted that the ledge had been smoothed out, pretty
> > much everyone expressed outrage (me too), then that seemed to change
> > acceptance for that particular case (not me).
> > At least that was my take on it.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> > > Larry,
> > >
> > > The fact that some moron did it does NOT mean it was the right
> > thing to
> > > do.
> > >
> > > Stu
> > >
> > > Stu Olson
> > > www.stu-offroad.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: highjeeps <highupjeep@q...> [mailto:highupjeep@q...]
> > > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:58 AM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
> > >
> > > On the subject of modifying trails to make them easier and that
> > being
> > > the wrong thing to do, can someone explain to me why it was
> > > apparently OK to smooth out the Ledge on the Crown King Trail? How
> > is
> > > that different from modifying any other trail to make it easier? (I
> > > think I may be the only one that still disagrees with that trail
> > > modification).
> > > Thx,
> > > Larry
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 04:01:13 -0000
> From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> Subject: Re: [LU] New Book Examines Impacts of Roads and Off-Road
Vehicles]
>
> I like the part where it says "written by *Roads Scholar*..." I
> thought that the school was called Rhodes, and was in England. I
> guess you learn something every day. And I thought Jimmi Hendirx
> said "'Scuse me, while I kiss the sky." But according to many people
> he said "Kiss this guy." Huh...
>
> Lachlan "No speaka Inglissh" MacLean
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > "No Place Distant: Roads and Motorized Recreation on America's
> Public
> > Lands"
> > (Island Press, 2002, ISBN 1-55963-845-1)
>
> >
> > Written by Roads Scholar David Havlick...
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 04:02:24 (GMT)
> From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
> Subject: [FS] 33X12.50 MTR'S WITH CUSTOM ALLOY WHEELS-POWER TRAX FRONT
LOCKER FOR DANA 30
>
>
>
> [This message is not in displayable format]
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 04:23:01 -0000
> From: "dbkcs <dbkcs@y...>" <dbkcs@y...>
> Subject: Re: 33x12.5
>
> How much and off of what?
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 04:23:18 -0000
> From: "dbkcs <dbkcs@y...>" <dbkcs@y...>
> Subject: Re: 33x12.5
>
> How much and off of what?
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:26:33 -0700
> From: "Mitch Woodward" <mitchwoodward@h...>
> Subject: Re: Where to buy reamers?
>
> These might be a snap-on item. I believe you need the correct sized
tapered
> ream to get the press fit with the tie rod ends. Home depot carries
nothing
> like it. Maybe a Napa or something like that would.
>
> Mitch
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Krieg" <rv6a@m...>
> To: "Arizona Virtual Jeep Club" <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 7:20 AM
> Subject: [az_vjc] Where to buy reamers?
>
>
> > I need to ream the holes in my steering knuckles to accept the new 1
> > ton ends I got. Are these available in places like Loews or Home Depot?
> > Is there any specific type I need to buy?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 04:28:21 -0000
> From: "highjeeps <highupjeep@q...>" <highupjeep@q...>
> Subject: Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
>
> That makes a few of us anyway.
> Larry
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Witt" <k7ant@t...> wrote:
> > Just for your info Larry, I'm still pissed about it!
> > Bill W
> > K7ANT a.k.a. "Antman"
> > 97 TJ with a few mods.
> > Up on the Mogollon Rim in Arizona.
> > God and 4 wheelers' country!
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <highupjeep@q...>
> > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 2:03 PM
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
> >
> >
> > > Stu (and all),
> > >
> > > I bring this up because it is my recollection that it was the
> pretty
> > > much the consensus of the group (or at least of those posting
> > > opinions at the time) once it was identified who it was that did
> the
> > > modifying and why it was done, that it was then somehow justified.
> > > When it was first posted that the ledge had been smoothed out,
> pretty
> > > much everyone expressed outrage (me too), then that seemed to
> change
> > > acceptance for that particular case (not me).
> > > At least that was my take on it.
> > >
> > > Larry
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> > > > Larry,
> > > >
> > > > The fact that some moron did it does NOT mean it was the right
> > > thing to
> > > > do.
> > > >
> > > > Stu
> > > >
> > > > Stu Olson
> > > > www.stu-offroad.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: highjeeps <highupjeep@q...> [mailto:highupjeep@q...]
> > > > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:58 AM
> > > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
> > > >
> > > > On the subject of modifying trails to make them easier and that
> > > being
> > > > the wrong thing to do, can someone explain to me why it was
> > > > apparently OK to smooth out the Ledge on the Crown King Trail?
> How
> > > is
> > > > that different from modifying any other trail to make it easier?
> (I
> > > > think I may be the only one that still disagrees with that trail
> > > > modification).
> > > > Thx,
> > > > Larry
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 23:30:59 EST
> From: AZICE626@a...
> Subject: Re: OT (?) Need a job to keep Jeep. If you can't help, please
delete!
>
> No flames here, Russ....I know the feeling....got laid off 17 months
> ago.....1 more week of unemployment left......tj gill
>
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:49:18 -0700
> From: "BradP Kilgore" <brad.kilgore@p...>
> Subject: RE: [FS] 33X12.50 MTR'S WITH CUSTOM ALLOY WHEELS-POWER TRAX FRONT
LOCKER FOR DANA 30
>
> What bolt pattern are the wheels and would you sell the tires by
themselves? If so, how much.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brad
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AzVJC Website [mailto:azvjc@a...]
> Sent: Thu 1/23/2003 9:02 PM
> To: AzVJC
> Cc:
> Subject: [az_vjc] [FS] 33X12.50 MTR'S WITH CUSTOM ALLOY WHEELS-POWER TRAX
FRONT LOCKER FOR DANA 30
>
>
>
> Price:
>
> Contact: 602-942-8503 ASK FOR STEVE
>
> 33X12.50 MTR'S 4 MONTHS OF LIGHT USE MOUNT WITH 15X8 ALUMINUM MOD ALLOY
WHEELS
> POWER TRAX FRONT LOCKER FOR DANA 30 VERY LITTLE USEAGE
> MUST SELL!!!
>
> SCOTT MCMILLAN
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 04:58:40 -0000
> From: "jeep_thing01 <kdberanek@c...>" <kdberanek@c...>
> Subject: Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> I was the driver of the TJ that got stuck the KIA strapped to it was
> a joke. It actually took two jeap with winches and two or three more
> as anchors to pull me out. It was more like wet clay than mud. I
> want to thank those who lended a hand put I gotta say most "club"
> members that were there were quite content to sit in lawn chairs next
> to their jeeps and watch. In fact a few actually got mad because of
> the time it took to pull me out. Fortunately this is not the first
> club run I have been on or I would probably not go on one again.
> Some of the comments made to me were pretty bad. I got the jeep 3
> months ago and while it is no rock crawling monster I'm proud of it.
> I won't comment to much on the driver ability part. Put I have 20
> years of off road driving experience. Granted not in a TJ will take
> sometime and a few more trips to totally get a feel for it's
> ability. Driver error was thinking a totally open jeep with 3.07
> gears and 33in tires could go thru what appeared to be a very shallow
> mud hole that turned out was over 2 feet deep. BTW speaking of
> gearing I just obtained a set of gears and carriers from a club
> member but need help getting them put in. Any volunteers? or
> recommendations on where to go and approximate cost. Cost is for
> help from club member too.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...> wrote:
> > Besides, how many of us wheel stock Jeeps anyway?
> >
> > Scott K
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...> [mailto:jeepindog@y...]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:12 PM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > KIA is not a bad manufacturer. In fact, they make some pretty
> > decent vehicles. Remember when a Honda was the cheapest piece of
> > ****e you could find on the road? (I do.) KIA never made a cheap
> > car, but they do make some very inexpensive cars. The fact that
> they
> > make one with a two-speed transfer case that did pretty well in the
> > 4x4 of the Year comparison (the actual 'wheelin part) that is
> > actually affordable and well-made should earn it some well-deserved
> > respect. Jeep Jeep Jeep. Don't you guys ever get tired of eating
> > the same thing for lunch? I will always own my Jeep, and love it
> and
> > all Jeeps. There are other vehicles out there that are very good
> at
> > some of the things that Jeeps are good at. Not *as* good, but
> > close. And if a Jeep driver just happens to get the Jeep stuck
> > (won't mention driver's ability) who cares who pulls it out? Maybe
> > DC should start charging extra for the God Complex that comes with
> > owning a Jeep!
> >
> > Lachlan
> >
> >
> > In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Clint Ramsey" <cwramsey@t...> wrote:
> > >
> > > I almost vomited when I opened that picture
> > >
> > > Clint
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
> > > To: Joe-CJ7@J...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> > > arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > Kia pulling TJ....
> > >
> > > (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com
> > oops
> > > section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
> > > sunday)
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@J...>
> > > >To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
> > > >
> > > >Frank,
> > > >
> > > >Where can I find the pictures?
> > > >
> > > >Joe Kearney
> > > >Joe-CJ7@J...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
> > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ
> side......
> > > > > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> > > > >
> > > > > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too
> bad...... :) The
> >
> > > > > nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people
> > > just
> > > >say
> > > > > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I
> get
> > my
> > > junk
> > > > > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > > > > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few
> > good
> > > >shots
> > > >of
> > > > > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from
> > > Sunday).....
> > > > >
> > > > > Frank
> > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> > > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > > > > >
> > > > > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig. I
> love
> > > > > >my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The
> > H2
> > > would
> > > >be
> > > > > >ok
> > > > > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for
> > free...I'd
> > >
> > > >sell
> > > >it
> > > > > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Martin
> > > > > >
> > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP
> > magazine
> > > doing
> > > >the
> > > > > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand
> > due to
> > > the
> > > > > >rubicons
> > > > > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the
> > stupid
> > > IFS,
> > > >I
> > > > > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday
> anyway. I
> > > have
> > > >kids
> > > > > >that
> > > > > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without
> worrying
> > > about
> > > > > >people
> > > > > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear.
> > Plus I
> > > like
> > > >my
> > > > > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound
> > system.
> > > >Before
> > > > > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will
> admit
> > that
> > > a
> > > >stock
> > > > > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and
> cash
> > into
> > > my
> > > >rig
> > > > > >to
> > > > > > > hang in.
> > > > > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be
> > too
> > > wide
> > > >but
> > > > > >if
> > > > > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just
> pull a
> > > rock
> > > >buggy
> > > > > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never
> > engage
> > > the
> > > >locker
> > > > > > > anyway)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Frank
> > > > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > > > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A
> > Rubicon
> > > gets
> > > >31"
> > > > > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room,
> > > probably
> > > > > > > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also
> has a
> > > bigger
> > > > > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably
> gets
> > more
> > > > > > > >envious looks (without a single modification) than most
> > Jeeps
> > > that
> > > > > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really
> > > matters...)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except
> > under
> > > the
> > > > > > > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires.
> That
> > > "road
> > > > > > > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me
> nauseous.
> > > What a
> > > > > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a
> > special
> > > > > > > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit
> with
> > a
> > > lack
> > > >of
> > > > > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground
> up,
> > and
> > > the
> > > > > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically
> > only
> > > >upgraded
> > > > > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and
> > rear
> > > > > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some
> > badass
> > > > > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper
> > use
> > > of AL
> > > > > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would
> have a
> > > hard
> > > >time
> > > > > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one?
> > Ever
> > > >ridden
> > > > > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I
> have
> > > done
> > > >all
> > > > > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2
> > might be
> > > a
> > > >fun
> > > > > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s
> > on
> > > the H2
> > > > > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep?
> > > (Besides
> > > >the
> > > > > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving
> > other
> > >
> > > >rigs
> > > > > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect.
> Yeah,
> > we
> > > all
> > > > > > > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne,
> > would
> > > you?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look
> > at an
> > > H-2
> > > >in
> > > > > > > >TX on
> > > > > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards,
> didnt
> > look
> > >
> > > >like
> > > > > > > >it was too
> > > > > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance
> > in the
> > > >middle
> > > > > > > >but none
> > > > > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock
> > ZJ
> > > looks
> > > > > > > >like it has
> > > > > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon,
> > I saw
> > > one
> > > >at
> > > > > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that
> > either
> > > for
> > > > > > > >the price,
> > > > > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied
> > with
> > > my YJ
> > > > > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > > > > :-)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > > > > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > __________________________________________________ _______________
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> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
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> > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
> > >
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> > >
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> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 20:59:45 -0800
> From: John Stewart <landuse@u...>
> Subject: Fwd: 2nd Annual Off Road Riders Foundation Charity Poker Run
(Southern California)
>
> From: "SDORC" <info@s...>
> To: "SDORC e-mail list" <info@s...>
> Subject: 2nd Annual Off Road Riders Foundation Charity Poker Run
> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 19:35:08 -0800
> X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
> Importance: Normal
>
> Join us for the 2nd Annual Off Road Riders Foundation Charity Poker Run to
> be held in Ocotillo Wells on Saturday, 15 February 2003. Follow this link
> for more details: http://www.sidewindersmotorsports.com/orrfpokerrun.html
>
> ******
>
> This mailing has been sent to people who have asked to be included in the
> SDORC mailing list. If you have received this message in error or no
longer
> wish to remain on our mailing list please accept our apologies, and reply
to
> this message with the word "remove" in the body of the message. If you
have
> a change of e-mail address please reply to this message with the word
> "change" in the body of the message, along with both your old and new
> address.
>
>
> --
> John Stewart
> Director, Environmental Affairs, UFWDA, http://www.ufwda.org
> Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
> Webmaster, Tierra del Sol 4x4: http://www.tds4x4.com
> Webmaster, Jeep-L: http://www.jeep-l.net
>
>
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 05:10:03 -0000
> From: "Allan Alexander <ajalex15@c...>" <ajalex15@c...>
> Subject: Re: Table Mesa Cleanup wheeling?
>
> Is anyone planning on running some easier/beginner trails?
>
> Allan
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "The Acuna Family" <mkacuna@c...>
> wrote:
> > DOH!
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...>
> > To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 4:54 PM
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: Table Mesa Cleanup wheeling?
> >
> >
> > > >> That's kinda like going to a Mexican food restaurant and
> ordering a
> > > hamburger. It's just wrong.
> > >
> > > No it's not....I do it all the time!
> > >
> > > Stu <hold out for the Norge domination of the earth> Olson
> > > www.stu-offroad.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...> [mailto:tomasr@a...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 2:09 PM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Table Mesa Cleanup wheeling?
> > >
> > > I plan on running something. I don't think I could bring myself
> to
> > > go out to Table Mesa and not do any wheeling.
> > >
> > > I was thinking about leading a Judgement Day run. If anyone's
> > > interested in this, let me know. I'd also be happy hooking up
> with
> > > others to do a different run if there's one already planned.
> > >
> > > -Roger
> > >
> > > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "cj4rox <cj4rox@y...>"
> <cj4rox@y...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Is anyone planning on running any trails after the cleanup?
> Or, is
> > > > that the point, to pick a trail & clean it? Or are we just
> doing
> > > the
> > > > parking & wash areas around the entrance?
> > > > Trying to figure out what I need to pack for gear.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Dan Siegel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:11:05 -0800
> From: John Stewart <landuse@u...>
> Subject: Fwd: Funding rejected for Southern California off-road dunes site
>
> The California State Parks OHV Commission continues its attack on
> recreation....
>
>
>
<http://www.sanluisobispo.com/mld/sanluisobispo/news/politics/5016908.htm>ht
tp://www.sanluisobispo.com/mld/sanluisobispo/news/politics/5016908.htm
>
> Funding rejected for Southern California off-road dunes site
> Associated Press
>
> SACRAMENTO - A state commission on Thursday rejected $1.1 million for
> operating far southeastern California's Imperial Sand Dunes
> Recreation Area, which draws 200,000 or more often rowdy off-road
> enthusiasts and party-seekers on holiday weekends.
>
> Denial of the funds "will have a significant impact" on the dunes and
> the more than 3 million people who visit there annually, said the
> federal Bureau of Land Management, which oversees the site. The money
> was to be used for visitor services including sanitation, trash
> removal and environmental monitoring.
>
> The BLM said it may have to raise fees, cut services, or divert money
> from other desert recreation areas.
>
> Thursday's decision was criticized by off-road advocates but praised
> by environmental groups that say the Algodones area's popularity
> threatens the desert habitat.
>
> The decision comes a month after the same state panel approved the
> entire $292,000 law enforcement budget the BLM sought for the site.
> The BLM has increased patrols and citations over recent holidays for
> frequent violations involving public nudity, riding in open truckbeds
> and organized parties.
>
> Over Thanksgiving 2001, activities culminated in a fatal shooting,
> several stabbings and more than 150 injuries, though a slightly
> smaller crowd was relatively more subdued last year.
>
> "It looks like public services are going to suffer and recreation is
> going to be impacted by this," said Don Amador, western
> representative of the Blue Ribbon Coalition, an off-road group. "It
> doesn't bode well for management of our public lands for off-road
> recreation."
>
> Under the Bush administration, however, the BLM is expected to
> release this spring or summer new rules opening 49,000 previously
> closed acres of the desert to a number of off-roaders with permits.
> The new land management plan includes no provision limiting the
> overall number of visitors to the dunes.
>
> Motorists can now freely roam 68,000 acres, or 106 square miles.
>
> Daniel R. Patterson, desert ecologist with the Center for Biological
> Diversity in Idyllwild, said a new environmental majority on the
> Off-Highway Motorized Vehicle Commission was concerned about the
> plan. The BLM's request was rejected on a 4-3 vote.
>
> The same panel last fall rejected a U.S. Forest Service request for
> $400,000 for winter recreation programs in the Lake Tahoe Basin and
> along California 88 both east and west of the Kirkwood ski resort and
> Carson Pass.
>
> ON THE NET
>
> BLM Imperial Dunes News:
>
<http://www.ca.blm.gov/elcentro/sandnews.html>http://www.ca.blm.gov/elcentro
/sandnews.html
>
> Imperial Dunes online guide:
>
<http://www.desertusa.com/sandhills/sandhills.html>http://www.desertusa.com/
sandhills/sandhills.html
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++
> NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, any copyrighted
> material herein is distributed without profit or payment to those who
have
> expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit
> research and educational purposes only. For more information go to:
>
<http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml>http://www.law.cornell.edu/u
scode/17/107.shtml
>
>
> --
> John Stewart
> Director, Environmental Affairs, UFWDA, http://www.ufwda.org
> Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
> Webmaster, Tierra del Sol 4x4: http://www.tds4x4.com
> Webmaster, Jeep-L: http://www.jeep-l.net
>
>
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 05:22:03 -0000
> From: "Rob Williams <g_rob_williams@y...>"
<g_rob_williams@y...>
> Subject: Re: [FS] 33X12.50 MTR'S WITH CUSTOM ALLOY WHEELS-POWER TRAX FRONT
LOCKER FOR DANA 30
>
> the powertrax just replaces the spider gears right? What gears did
> you have it for? -Rob
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________________
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:54:30 -0800
> From: John Stewart <landuse@u...>
> Subject: Fwd: LA Times - Jan. 21 - Bush Road/RS2477 Plan
>
> *Quotes from BRC/Collins/Amador, HDMUC/Schiller, Greens, Agency, etc.
> Bush Opens Way for Counties and States to Claim Wilderness Roads
>
> Policy could allow vehicles into vast areas of wilderness, some in
> national parks. Critics fear harm by miners, off-roaders and others.
>
> By Julie Cart
> Times Staff Writer
>
<http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-me-roads21jan21004430.story>htt
p://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-me-roads21jan21004430.story
>
> January 21 2003
>
> MOJAVE NATIONAL PRESERVE -- From most perspectives, this windblown
> landscape is the definition of off the beaten path. Sandy hummocks
> give way to flinty mountain ranges and a seemingly impassable expanse
> that is home to herds of bighorn sheep, desert tortoises and a
> universe of heat-loving plants.
>
> But others see the preserve's 1.6 million acres of creosote bushes
> and ribbed desert washes and envision thousands of miles of roads.
> Ditto for Death Valley and Joshua Tree national parks, along with
> wilderness areas in the Sierra Nevada and along California's rugged
> northern coast.
>
> That vision -- of unfettered motorized access to remote country that
> has for decades been the province of wild animals and a few hardy
> backpacking humans -- is a lot closer to reality thanks to a Bush
> administration policy quietly adopted earlier this month.
>
> Bowing to long-standing pressure from several Western states and
> counties, the Interior Department's new policy gives local
> decision-makers the opportunity to lay claim to tens of thousands of
> miles of rights of way across federal land. Ultimately, it will be up
> to the Interior Department to determine the validity of the claims.
>
> Enacted through a rules change, the new policy has the potential to
> open millions of acres of land in national parks and federally
> designated wilderness areas to motorized transportation. By providing
> access to isolated holdings, it could also open remote country to
> drilling for oil and gas and other commercial development.
>
> The policy does not automatically convey rights of way to local
> jurisdictions. The U.S. Bureau of Land Management must rule on the
> validity of each claim. The agency is virtually certain to face legal
> challenges to any rights of way granted through parks or wilderness
> areas where motorized transportation is now prohibited.
>
> Nonetheless, wilderness advocates have cause for alarm. The Bush
> administration has made its preference clear for granting state and
> local authorities increasing say in the way federal lands are used.
>
> Deputy Interior Secretary Steve Griles recently told a group of
> Alaska mining and energy executives that the administration would
> soon approve rights-of-way claims from that state.
>
> Alaska, Utah and other states, as well as a handful of Southern
> California counties, are asserting the rights-of-way claims under a
> little-known 1866 law titled RS 2477, which was designed to encourage
> the development of the rural West. The law was repealed in 1976, but
> states and counties were still able to make claims if the roads
> existed before 1976.
>
> Wagon Trails
>
> In many cases, what authorities are claiming as roads amount to
> little more than wagon tracks, livestock paths and even dogsled
> routes in Alaska. But with muscular, four-wheel-drive vehicles, even
> the most primitive routes can allow access to untrammeled places.
>
> The issue heated up during the 1990s as off-road vehicle enthusiasts,
> hunters, ranchers and mining and energy interests became increasingly
> concerned about the Clinton administration's efforts to curtail road
> building in national forests, restrict mining near national parks and
> create parks and monuments.
>
> The new policy does not take effect until Feb. 5, but already its
> implications are being felt across the West.
>
> In California, San Bernardino County has indicated its intent to
> claim nearly 5,000 miles of rights of way -- more than twice the
> total mileage of maintained roads in the entire county. The county is
> pressing claims to 2,567 miles of roads within the Mojave National
> Preserve, acting at the behest of off-road enthusiasts, ranchers and
> mining interests.
>
> Riverside and other counties have documented claims to rights of way
> in Joshua Tree and Death Valley national parks and 21 wilderness
> areas in the Southern California desert.
>
> Counties such as San Bernardino say they are simply securing
> legitimate claims that they may or may not intend to exercise.
>
> "These are blanket assertions," said Brad Mitzelfelt, chief of staff
> for San Bernardino County Supervisor Bill Postmus. "It's a matter of
> defending local prerogatives and local rights. If you have a
> once-in-a-lifetime chance to protect rights that you may lose
> forever, you've got to take it."
>
> Park and wilderness advocates fear it will disrupt wildlife habitat,
> turning 19th century wagon ruts into paved roadways, allowing cars
> and their pollution into unspoiled places.
>
> "We're concerned about highways, but in a way that's just the tip of
> the iceberg," said Heidi McIntosh, conservation director for the
> Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance, which has been monitoring RS 2477
> claims for more than a decade.
>
> McIntosh said one of the right-of-way claims in Utah leads down a
> waterfall and another through a 4-foot-wide slot canyon.
>
> "With roads comes pollution, wildlife fragmentation, off-road
> vehicles, the loss of solitude and quiet. Multiply that by 10,000,
> the number of claims here in Utah, and you have a mess. I can't think
> of an issue the Bush administration is working on that can have a
> longer or more serious impact on public lands."
>
> Impact Assessed
>
> Ten years ago, the National Park Service evaluated potential RS 2477
> claims and found that if the roads were allowed, the impact would be
> devastating. The report noted that the claims could cross many miles
> of undisturbed fish and wildlife habitat, historical and
> archeological resources, and sensitive wetlands.
>
> "If a court were to decide that the law says the right-of-way roads
> have precedence over legally designated wilderness, that would have a
> catastrophic effect on wilderness," said David Graber, senior science
> advisor at Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks and a member of
> the park service's wilderness steering committee.
>
> The Clinton administration proposed a rule that would have prevented
> footpaths, dogsled tracks and other primitive routes from being
> turned into roadways but met resistance from Congress, and the issue
> went unresolved.
>
> Today, Interior officials say the change is needed to streamline
> time-consuming disputes and lengthy legal proceedings. The new rule
> removes public comment and judicial review from the process and gives
> the Bureau of Land Management sole authority to validate right-of-way
> claims.
>
> Nationally, some of the most celebrated public landscape could be
> affected. Alaska has asserted claims over 22,000 waterways and 2,700
> miles of roads in 13 national parks and preserves, including Denali
> National Park and the Arctic National Wildlife Reserve.
>
> In Utah, many of the rights of way crisscross southern Utah's
> spectacular red rock country -- where local officials contend that
> the cluster of half a dozen national parks and proposed wilderness
> areas stand in the way of access to cattle grazing, minerals, and oil
> and gas deposits.
>
> There and elsewhere, off-road enthusiasts as well as cattle, mining
> and ranching groups and hunters have lobbied hard for the rights of
> way, in some cases filing claims themselves.
>
> "It's been a long and arduous fight because the previous
> administration wasn't cooperating. Now, we've found willing ears,"
> said Clark Collins, executive director of the Blue Ribbon Coalition,
> a Pocatello, Idaho-based organization representing motorized
> recreation interests.
>
> "In rural areas, people are very interested in this issue, it means
> so much to all of us