Search and Rescue Group

[amber.hodge]

There is a dedicated group for Search and Rescue, Extraction, Recovery of stuck/lost jeepers and also dedicated to the instruction of workshops on these topics and also first aid, casualty assistance and other such aspects in these general arenas of jeeping.

To join this group, please go to your User CP and then click on 'social groups' navigate to the Jeep Emergency Extraction Party group and request membership. I will approve anyone who requests membership to this group.

Once there, please post up your rig's specifications, highest trail rating your rig can handle, equipment you carry which could help in these situations and any training or experience which would be practical to this, as well as if you are interested in instructing a course.

We are currently working (Rangers Range, Randy T and myself) on assembling a spreadsheet of the group. I also want to be able to offer workshops on a monthly or every other month basis and cycle instructors and topics - as well as switching between a home based BBQ environment and a "field" environment on the trail.

I will also be creating and publishing a list of course topics, loose course requirements, instructors and also a calendar to accompany. My thinking is that getting all members together for a Meet and Greet or BBQ (which we would be happy to host at the house and feed all) would be the best way to organize internally and keep this from either (A.) dwindling and disappearing (B.) becoming a completely unorganized free-for-all cluster F...

:fashizzle:

[amber.hodge]

Also, what I am planning on is having a BBQ/ meet up for this group so that we can plan from there. What I have in mind is instead of the focus being on this class or that class coming up that we figure out what we want to hold workshops on, who can instruct, when they will happen and get a schedule of monthly workshops and swap out instructors so that nobody gets burned out and everyone in the club can take advantage of these.

Additionally, my thinking is to do a workshop 1 month in a home/garage/city based environment and then the next month go out and do an actual practical application.....Like with Ademster's idea of somebody getting lost --- well that would be a great practical application after a workshop on actual search and rescue and what not.

I'll be posting up in the social group to organize this meet up for those in the J.E.E.P. who are interested in getting this thing going.

[corwyyn]

Like with Ademster's idea of somebody getting lost --- well that would be a great practical application after a workshop on actual search and rescue and what not.
I'd volunteer to be the rabbit, fox, whatever you want to call the 'lost' person. :D

[ShmUDE]

im in.

[amber.hodge]

Well I think the rabbit fox lost person will be figured out soon. Thanks for volunteering :) I'm just trying to look at big picture instead of fine details right now untile we all can get together. 28/29 June looks best for us but I'll know more about other dates on Monday of next week.

And I'm not trying to be a control freak either - Organizing groups and courses of instruction are just something I have had to do in the Army for 5 years and would like to help out with the knowledge I can lend in getting this rolling in a manner in which it will not become a mess. :) Rangers Range and Randy T have really been helpful along with a few others with this also. :)

[ArizonaXJ]

Amber, quick suggestion: How about hosting the meeting at say the Armory at PPMR? Central location and the brigade conference room could be used. White boards, butcher pads, tables, chairs....heck, could even set up a 1-800 # for folks to call in on that couldn't be there. This way they could at least participate in the conversation. There is a couple of grills there for a BBQ.

Just a thought.

Also, keep in mind our access to the many armories around the state. I'm sure that classes and such being done at various locations would be appreciated. After June 9th, I'll have access to the Glendale Armory for west side stuff.


Jim

[amber.hodge]

I had that in mind, Jim, but I was waiting for you to return from your travels - I figured you were OCONUS for a while since I didn't get a response from you....either that or your computer crashed!

I would like to do so, and I think that would be the best bet in keeping it centralized. is there a BBQ pit there, though??? I had lunch bbq in mind but that doesn't have to happen....I know there is the dining facility but I would strongly prefer to forget that thing ever existed!

[ArizonaXJ]

No Amber, I haven't been abroad. I've been performing Casualty Assisitance Officer (CAO) duties. I've been working from 0600 Eastern time to about 2100 local taking care of stuff for the family. Right now they're back at Arlington for the final services on the 2nd of June so, I have a day or two of normal duties.
If there is one thing that is bad about having rank; it's that you can get CAO/CNO Duty. It's one of the toughest.

There isn't a BBQ pit but there is a couple of grills there.

[Fire Ball]

Justy throwing this out there. I think it would be cool to do a day or even a weekend camp with events and classes. Recovery, S&R, survival, basic trail repairs, rules and regs, ediquette, mixed with a little wheeling and a BBQ?

[cosninocanines]

Just a point of view, every county in Arizona has a search and rescue generally associated with the Sheriffs office. Please look into what they have and how we can be a usefull part of the solution.

[wild mustang]

i love the idea of the practical/hands on workshops...what better way to get more jeepers up to speed to be an active part of the group...i certainly plan on joining once i have more seat time and some hands on experience....the last thing a search and rescue group needs is a newbie getting lost...

[AZG23]

Just a point of view, every county in Arizona has a search and rescue generally associated with the Sheriffs office. Please look into what they have and how we can be a usefull part of the solution.


This is true....however this function is BEFORE they will even roll...

This isnt only about going out to find someone in the desert, its about gaining the knowledge that can keep you or someone alive. Its about having the skills to recover a vehicle you may be out wheeling with, so it doesnt turn dangerous, or even life threatening.

Its about having the ability, and functioning in those types of situations, BEFORE needing the Pro's. Its also about having the right gear with you, and being able survive the places that we wheel.

[K7AZV]

Just a point of view, every county in Arizona has a search and rescue generally associated with the Sheriffs office. Please look into what they have and how we can be a usefull part of the solution.

Well, I think developing this group and procedures can help in a lost person or overdue return, but keep in mind they are also something that could be used for a break down. With the proper network of people and communications, we can get parts out to the location, etc. much faster. The extreme case is someone lost or injured, but that won't be the only use for this group.

[AZLugz]

I like the idea of a weekend thing, camping out, would be cool!!!!!


I have a couple generators and some lighting and a basic PA setup. Also have a projector and screen that we can use after dark.
Course it will really depend on what weekend, I have some other things coming up too. the weekend of the 21st I will be gone

[amber.hodge]

This is true....however this function is BEFORE they will even roll...

This isnt only about going out to find someone in the desert, its about gaining the knowledge that can keep you or someone alive. Its about having the skills to recover a vehicle you may be out wheeling with, so it doesnt turn dangerous, or even life threatening.

Its about having the ability, and functioning in those types of situations, BEFORE needing the Pro's. Its also about having the right gear with you, and being able survive the places that we wheel.

Yes, this is going to be far more encompassing than a simple search and rescue team and will be much faster in getting rolling when a situation arises.

I like the idea of a weekend thing, camping out, would be cool!!!!!


I have a couple generators and some lighting and a basic PA setup. Also have a projector and screen that we can use after dark.
Course it will really depend on what weekend, I have some other things coming up too. the weekend of the 21st I will be gone

I'm thinking that before we get ahead of ourselves on classes that we need to get the core group together....anyone have a problem with this?

I'm thinking we check with ArizonaXJ for the schedule on the armory facility and then go from there on selection of a date.

[jporvaz]

Just a point of view, every county in Arizona has a search and rescue generally associated with the Sheriffs office. Please look into what they have and how we can be a usefull part of the solution.

You are absolutely correct. Most of the SAR groups are Posse, therefore volunteers. It would take hours to activate a SAR through the County. The last search in FJ, as I read the posts, the PCSO wouldn't come out til morning. This forum had groups headed for the trails within an hour of the decision to launch.

My comments are not to take away from the County SAR but a well-organized group like this can mobilize quicker and have the tools and know-how to recover a vehicle and driver that the County may not have.

[My1stJeep]

Just a point of view, every county in Arizona has a search and rescue generally associated with the Sheriffs office. Please look into what they have and how we can be a usefull part of the solution.

Actually during this whole search they were. IN fact they landed the helicopter on the ridge on our way to the coke ovens to talk with us and they were communicated with the entire time.

Part of the issue was the we did not know what condition that the lost Jeeper was in, and being 68 time could have been crititcal depending on the circumstances. They were not going to start until day light. Now given that we were out there and it took us about 8 hours from start to find, shift that start time until 6:00am when there were going to start, and instead of locating him at about 8:30am ish he would have been found at about 2:00pm ish. At the time we located him he was on his last gallon jug of water, would that have lasted him until 2:00pm? Not sure, but I doubt it.

I agree that if and when an event like this occurs that the Law Enforcement and any Search and Rescue needs to be kept in the loop so that our efforts can be combined to be affective. IN this particular instance I think they were, we were in contact and had indentified the areas we had searched according the maps left by the Jeeper, and areas we had not yet been on those maps, as well as what areas we had Jeeps in that were searching. It is also why instead of us going out to an area we were not familar with we reached out to the Jeep community looking for people who were, we also had a running log of who was looking in what area and tracking when they made it back to pavement so that no one was left behind.

I think for a bunch of first timers everyone did a great job of cooridinating with each other and the law enforcement world and we were lucky to have such a great outcome.

Amber and those looking to put these together I think are a great idea, and with John from Hunter's off road being a member of the MCSO Search and Rescue would be great to help lead this and tell us the best ways to coordinate with law enforcement.

[amber.hodge]

I agree that he would be a great asset and instructor in search and rescue. :)

In speaking with ArizonaXJ, we were thinking of getting everyone together who is able to instruct and assist in instruction around the end of the month at a central location. Just for a quick thing. We can even set up a teleconference that people can call in to if it is on base at the armory's conference room.

We also looked at the idea of not only just teaching basic first aid but setting up a CPR course with CPR instructors so that those who attend can actually get their certification and then have somebody keep a running track of when the renewals would be due.

The reason I got involved in this is the fact that doing fire fighting and also extensive human resources and admin for the army has given me experience in organizing and tracking stuff like this. I'd really like to be able to donate my personal time to the organization and tracking of this so that it is done as simply as possible for all involved. :)

[amber.hodge]

I'll be able to get with Arizona XJ about the facilities and dates as soon as I get some information on my drill weekend schedule. I am potentially going to be starting active duty with the Guard again on this coming Monday, so after I figure out what is going on, I'll have dates posted up in the group area for all who are seriously interested in attending.

[BaronVonRoot]

all this sounds good looking forward too geting involved in this... not experienced in this feild like some of you guys just a guy that wants to help anyone in trouble... will keep a watch for updates Dan

[arczech]

all this sounds good looking forward too geting involved in this... not experienced in this feild like some of you guys just a guy that wants to help anyone in trouble... will keep a watch for updates Dan

X2 on our part, If we can gain more knowledge of what to do and help when we can. Go for it we are very interested in getting more involved with this activity.
Just let us know (when where and what to bring)
Alan and Tammy

[LJYJ]

I would like to be apart of this as well. I know I'm new here and have not met any of you yet but I'm ALWAYS READY TO HELP. I also own atv's so I can take all the small side trails or off trail. Or Scout!. I have alot of experience with the outdoors and wildlife. I would like to learn more and be apart of anything I can do to help. I'm also ALWAYS on here. "I might be addicted to this place" .

Wait! Yea. I'am addicted! lol

[GRUNT]

Amber,
I signed up. Can help instruct as well. Was part of the MCSO too, but my advice for S&R matters is to contact Tom "Hard as Nails" Fooshee here on VJC, he can help teach/liason as he is an active member(MCSO) and certified S&R instructor for the State.

[AZG23]

Amber,
I signed up. Can help instruct as well. Was part of the MCSO too, but my advice for S&R matters is to contact Tom "Hard as Nails" Fooshee here on VJC, he can help teach/liason as he is an active member(MCSO) and certified S&R instructor for the State.


YES SIR....he's a bad mamma jamma! BigDave302 knows a thing or 2 bout it also..

[amber.hodge]

I will do that - thanks. I'm still in limbo on when my drill dates will be pending a possible unit transfer, so i will know more tonight and be able to speak to ArizonaXJ about scheduling the command conference room and setting up an 800# for teleconference for those who cannot attend on date/time selected. :)

[AZG23]

If weapons arent allowed at this location, please post that information...Id hate for anyone to show up and have any issues.

[amber.hodge]

Unless you are a Range Safety Officer for the state, like Ben and I are, then you cannot bring personal weapons on any Army National Guard base. Thanks for mentioning that - not that the military isn't friendly to our rights to carry......they just don't want anyone unauthorized carrying weapons on post. :)

[defibvt]

Amber, I would be very interested in this. I have extensive first aid and trauma experience plus some repelling and climbing experience. The unfortunate thing is my jeep isn't up and running yet. Let me know the dates for the meet and I will try to make it.

[AZG23]

Unless you are a Range Safety Officer for the state, like Ben and I are, then you cannot bring personal weapons on any Army National Guard base. Thanks for mentioning that - not that the military isn't friendly to our rights to carry......they just don't want anyone unauthorized carrying weapons on post. :)


perfect...thanks...I KNOW ALOT of Jeepers carry..just didnt want anyone proned out with an M16 to the ear..;)

[sms1688]

perfect...thanks...I KNOW ALOT of Jeepers carry..just didnt want anyone proned out with an M16 to the ear..;)


I kinda like that position with out the M16.....oh wait what sorry thought that was my inside voice

[amber.hodge]

LOL I believe the gate guards carry 9 mils.

[ArizonaXJ]

If weapons arent allowed at this location, please post that information...Id hate for anyone to show up and have any issues.

Brad, I don't see a problem with this once we get things scheduled out. I will probably be there and I would let the guys at the gate know ahead of time that they can be expecting a bunch of Jeepers coming; leave them my name and number and IF there were an issue they could call me to the gate.


Unless you are a Range Safety Officer for the state, like Ben and I are, then you cannot bring personal weapons on any Army National Guard base. Thanks for mentioning that - not that the military isn't friendly to our rights to carry......they just don't want anyone unauthorized carrying weapons on post. :)

Somewhat correct Amber about the "special priviliges" that you have with your RSO cert. You can take people to the ranges and utalize them both with military weapons AND personal weapons. However, your RSO does not provide you with the right to carry on "post" at PPMR any more thean Brad can. The big thing here is to remember that this is NOT a federal installation' it is state owned land.

LOL I believe the gate guards carry 9 mils.

Yes they do. They carry Baretta 92's.....


Basically in a nut shell folks; once we set this up and we know who is coming and so forth. I could and would prefer to provide the guards with a roster of names so that they could control access a little better and know who to expect. As I said earlier, I would also get here a head of time and let them know what was going on and provide them with my number just in case. I did this when I did the map reading and land navigation course last year.
You guys could carry with no problems. Just don't go showing up with your tricked out 300 winmag and custom fullsize 1911 and 500 rounds for each with a mean troublesome looking attitude on your face.
They ask for your ID, you show them; they ask where you're headed, you tell them the building number and drop proper rank and name (this is where being an E7 helps Amber), they give you any grief, yu politley tell them to call me.

[Rogue XJ]

mark me as interested. I'll keep an eye on the thread for further info. thx.


Tim G.

[Fire Ball]

X2

[tomfooshee]

I don't spend much time on the computer. The laptop crashed so now I have to sit in my office room instead of the family room or bed with the laptop.

Anyhow thanks for the good words Brad. We don't use the words as certified instructor except for the training posse. We have classes , search exercises, where we teach tracking skills to new trackers. The Air posse comes out and uses it's assets to practice also and the coordinators get a chance to evaluate and try out different teniques. Even for the most expirienced you learn something every time you go out.

From what I've seen over the years the club does it's own search and rescue. Someone knows how to do a trail fix, someone gets parts etc. The club's mission is not to olny recover the person but save the Jeep also. Maybe that should be the mission statement "Save the Jeep". Most members carry survival gear and spare parts.

Rule number one is call the sheriff's office and report the overdue person. If you know the area he/she is going report that also. Any agency can not begin a search without a place to start.

Once organized let the local search and rescue coordinators know of what you have to offer. Jeeps and persons with knowledge of the trails and area.

Fine someone to conduct a first aid cpr class. American Red Cross does them.

When a person is reported missing the Sheriff's office does a hasty search. Deputies in the area and air assets when available. Then the call out for Jeeps, mounted, trackers, air etc depending on what is needed. The thing is the sheriff's office doesn't use civilians outside the posse. There is liability and other issues. Every search has the possibility of being a crime until proved otherwise.

So my 2 cents would keep it as a club group. You will be more flexable to assist. Normally when we meet civillians in the feld we question them have you seen a person and give a description. Have them call the SO if they see them and continue with our search. We also make note of the contact. Remember some turn out to be crime scenes.

Except for John's war wagon the SO doesn't have rigs trail capable as the VJC. The club can look for a person and search trails in an organized way like you did on the last search. When the sheriff's office does respond and sets up a command post someone from the club report to the coordinator and let him/her know what trails you are searching and have searched. This is the most important information. If he has trails he wants you to check out he will ask also.

No one goes into the field without survival gear. Water extra colthing, food, flashlights first aid supplies. No exceptions. You don't want to take resourses away from the search to save your rear.

For you that have street legal rigs and can pass a background check John Hunter is in the tactical vehicle posse he may be interested in you joining. When you have your BBQ it might be a good idea to invite the Search & rescue Coordinators from Maricopa & Pinal county Sheriffs office. They can see what assets you have to offer and offer suggestions for the group. MCSO Coordinator is Jesse Robinson. You can contact him at enforcement support 602 876 1895.

[Bill Ritter]

Does the Good Samaritan Law apply to a Search and Rescue operation?

[Hunter]

Tom,

Good to see you pop your head up. :D

On the 21st, I am more than willing to talk about some of the resources and "how things work" on the inside from MCSO's point of view so people can have an understanding on the processes work. Tom summed them up pretty good.

I can tell you first hand, there are all ready hundreds of names on lists from folks who are part of the Posse program that are listed in Search and Rescue groups. Granted, most are in-active but if you want to make an impression as an organized group, I dont think your first meeting is the time to do it. I'd hold off on inviting people out until you get a group together.

I can also mention that MCSO is not warm to the idea of having people who are not trained or part of the Posse helping in County sponsored searches. Mostly comes down to liability, both for you getting hurt or something happens and the victim sues. In order to be covered by the County insurance, you must have certain training down via the Posse Program.

Pinal County is another issue. I have no idea how they run. I know some of the other County agencies are much looser than MCSO. If anything, I see this as a great resource to help take care of our own in case one of us gets in trouble.

[rangers_range]

The Good Samaritan law for Arizona is directed at medical care.

32-1471. Health care provider and any other person; emergency aid; nonliability

Any health care provider licensed or certified to practice as such in this state or elsewhere, or a licensed ambulance attendant, driver or pilot as defined in section 41-1831, or any other person who renders emergency care at a public gathering or at the scene of an emergency occurrence gratuitously and in good faith shall not be liable for any civil or other damages as the result of any act or omission by such person rendering the emergency care, or as the result of any act or failure to act to provide or arrange for further medical treatment or care for the injured persons, unless such person, while rendering such emergency care, is guilty of gross negligence.

[rangers_range]

Where we fit in.

The Sheriff has the responsibility for SAR in his county.
ARS 11-441
C. The sheriff shall conduct or coordinate within the county search or rescue operations involving the life or health of any person, or may assist in such operations in another county at the request of that county's sheriff, and may request assistance from any persons or agencies in the fulfillment of duties under this subsection.

In Maricopa County, the Sheriff uses only posse members to search. Some counties use SAR groups who are not necessarily posse affiliated (Central Arizona Mountain Rescue, Civil Air Patrol, different dog groups...).

Our function is to look after our own lost/overdue and extract the stuck. As was pointed out, the Sheriff must be notified of a search. We are not precluded from running a search on our own, but we must cooperate and not interfere with the Sheriff. In most cases, we will start a hasty search and resolve the search quickly. In extended searches, we may be in a "parallel play" mode with the Sheriff. They run their search and we run ours while coordinating and sharing information.

After we have organized and shaken out the bugs, it would be in our interest to let the SAR coordinators for the various sheriffs' offices know about our capabilities. It is a lot easier to work with people who know you

[ArizonaXJ]

I fully agree with the last 3-4 previous posts as far as working with agencies in their AO.
I know that I would be "miffed" at a bunch of "wanna be rescue rangers" tramping all over my AO.
I think that we should keep going as we are; getting set up, organized, scheduling training, etc. Once we have our crap together, THEN, we contact and invite the respective CSO representatives to one of our meetings where we introduce ourselves and explain what we can/can't do, have to offer, and ask them for what they think about possibly utilizing our assistance.
I fully understand liability issues in this day and age. I carry IV's with me ALL the time and QUICKCLOt also. However, I am an Army certified Combat Life Saver (CLS). If I "stick" a civilian or use my Quickclot to stop arterial bleeding, I am liable. Even if the person lives and has no "side effects" from what I did to save their life, they can sue me.
Now hopefully that day doesn't ever come but when it does, it will be up to me to make the call on if I want to risk everything I own.
Perhaps I should have a JAG officer draw up a release form for a person to sign or bleed on before I treat them????

In any case, I say we keep building and who knows......maybe we will become a sought after asset through out the state?

[Sardog 609]

When I first moved to AZ, I was told by MCSO that in order to be on the Swiftwater Rescue Team I had to be sworn as a peace officer first. That entails going through the "mini academy", then going on regular law enforcement patrol 8 hours per month.

Pass.

I've done my time in harm's way from those with hostile intent. It would also cause me to have a conflict of interest with my day job (Federal Public Defender). My feeling (and that of my attorney better half) is that we advise and communicate with SO or AZ Fish or Rangers when we initiate an operation. Unless we are ordered to cease and desist because we are obstructing an officer, we are free to do as we like.

As far as treating people in the field, we would be covered under state and Federal good samaritan laws.