blooddrive
01-07-2004, 09:50 PM
76277-76301
76277 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:47am
Subject: [TR] Coves of Saguaro Lake - Saturday, February 8, 2003
Hello All,
Jeffrey Trujillo is leading a Coves of Saguaro Lake trail run on Saturday, February 8, 2003.
When: Meet inside the gate at Butcher Jones at 0900 AM
Where: First Cove unless someone has a better place. Just let me know.
Rating: 2.5+
Length: 4-5
CB Channel: 4
This run is for the KIDS. If your kids have a JEEP of their own and they are tired of riding in your jeep or backyard then this is the perfect time to let them do some of their own wheelin'. We could have a BBQ for lunch so bring something to grill and something to drink. I will bring the grill to cook on (if I can fit it in the XJ). If you have any suggestions on a better place let me know! 480-213-1976
At the Coves of Saguaro Lake, there are at least 4 coves to play in, on, and around. Many hill climbs provide a challenge to all levels of 4-Wheelers and vehicles.
Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
76278 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:57am
Subject: RE: Table Mesa shooting?
This Saturday will most likely be the only safe Saturday out there.
As dumb as many are, they don't show up with a gun in hand and stand ankle
deep in the pile of brass and shotguns shells that a group of off-roaders is
cleaning up. They have figured out when to stay away.
LOL
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: robert_j_rogers2 <robert.rogers@h...>
[mailto:robert.rogers@h...]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:34 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Table Mesa shooting?
Has the agencies thought about posting the area no shooting during
the clean-up. It would not be fun to "dodge lead" while picking up
the mess. Some of the shooters may not want to stop long enough to
let us clean the target area.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76279 From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...> <tomasr@a...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:59am
Subject: Re: Table Mesa Cleanup wheeling?
Joey,
The shooters that trash places like Table Mesa are the hardest to
reach and that makes educating them difficult. This is why I
approached the Game and Fish department last year and requested they
create a "pack it in, pack it out" type of TV commercial similar to
their "stay on the trails" commercial.
It's also the reason why I attended a meeting on ensuring the
survival of the Ben Avery shooting range. Without it, some of the
people who currently shoot at the range might resort to shooting at
places like Table Mesa.
But I certainly agree that it would be nice - and very appropriate -
if some of the shooting clubs would pitch in just like we do.
-Roger
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "DesertJeep" <joey@d...> wrote:
> Sandee,
>
> Do you know of any efforts made to inform the target shooting
community
> of this clean up? What kind of "points" are we getting? We clean up
the
> junk made by a totally different recreation and we keep the trails
we
> wheel open? I feel our efforts would be better recognized if we
found a
> way to educate the real responsible parties and have them clean up
there
> own brethren's trash.
>
> Joey K
> 93YJ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sandee McCullen [mailto:mccullen@c...]
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 8:19 AM
> To: cj4rox@y...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Table Mesa Cleanup wheeling?
>
>
> There are a number of groups going out on trails after the
cleanup. The
> intent is not to "clean" the trails..... we do that normally. The
> clean up is mostly for the large dump and shooting
areas............. I
> know, it's not our mess but it's one of the easiest ways to "make
> points" with the agencies!
>
> I know there is a "sign-in" sheet for everyone............. is the
VJC
> going to have one of their own??? I'll have a table with State
Permits
> near the sign-in area. Can do a VJC sign-in there if you'd
like........
>
> See you there. Sandee
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cj4rox <cj4rox@y...> [mailto:cj4rox@y...]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 7:51 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Table Mesa Cleanup wheeling?
> >
> >
> > Is anyone planning on running any trails after the cleanup? Or,
is
> > that the point, to pick a trail & clean it? Or are we just doing
the
> > parking & wash areas around the entrance? Trying to figure out
what I
>
> > need to pack for gear.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Dan Siegel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76280 From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...> <tomasr@a...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:06am
Subject: Re: Table Mesa Cleanup wheeling?
Dave,
I must disagree. I participated in last year's clean-up and I feel
that 95% of the trash is shooters' trash. Besides, you never know
whether that old fridge was simply dumped or brought out by a shooter
to be used as a target.
By the way, a common target seemed to be propane tanks like you use
with a BBQ grill. I wonder if those tanks actually contained any
propane when they were first shot. I imagine they did. Those
shooters seem to like targets that provide the biggest effect when
shot.
-Roger
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Daver" <daver@i...> wrote:
> P4W normally hands out fliers at the local shooting ranges (i.e.
Ben Avery and whatnot.)
>
> John's comment about those not being the ones causing the problem
though is likely correct. A lot of the mess isn't even shooting, it
is just general dumping. Last time we were out there the boy-child
couldn't understand "why someone would hate a refrige
> rator so much to shoot it so many times."
>
> ======= At 2003-01-23, 08:53:00 DesertJeep wrote: =======
> >Do you know of any efforts made to inform the target shooting
community
> >of this clean up? What kind of "points" are we getting? We clean
up the
> >junk made by a totally different recreation and we keep the trails
we
> >wheel open? I feel our efforts would be better recognized if we
found a
> >way to educate the real responsible parties and have them clean up
there
> >own brethren's trash.
76281 From: Rob Williams <g_rob_williams@y...> <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:07am
Subject: 15x10 589s and stuff still for sale
I still have my 5 15x10 589s 5 on 4.5 I'm selling for $250 I have
pics of it on my website and I also have a lot of other misc stuff I
want to get rid of on there like Chevy brushguard, 75 Gallon Salt
tank, Ford Explorer/Ranger spare...
http://www.wingnutskates.com/forsale -Rob
76282 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:14am
Subject: RE: Re: Rubicon VS H2
Nope Sound bar is on the wrong half of the roll cage. Must be a TJ.
Beside only a TJ would need TWO tow straps!! ;)
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Ward [mailto:martinida@c...]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:34 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com; BADAZXJ XJArizona
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
Hey from this angle it could be a YJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
To: <Joe-CJ7@J...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>;
<arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
> Kia pulling TJ....
>
> (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com oops
> section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
> sunday)
>
> Frank
> BadAzXJ@m...
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@J...>
> >To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
> >
> >Frank,
> >
> >Where can I find the pictures?
> >
> >Joe Kearney
> >Joe-CJ7@J...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ side......
> > > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> > >
> > > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too bad...... :) The
> > > nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people just
> >say
> > > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I get my
junk
> > > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few
> > > good
> >shots
> >of
> > > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from
Sunday).....
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > > >
> > > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig. I love
> > > >my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The H2 woul
d
> >be
> > > >ok
> > > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for
> > > >free...I'd
> >sell
> >it
> > > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > > >
> > > >Martin
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP magazine
doing
> >the
> > > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand due
> > > > > to
the
> > > >rubicons
> > > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the
> > > > > stupid
IFS,
> >I
> > > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > > >
> > > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday anyway. I
> > > > > have
> >kids
> > > >that
> > > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without worrying
> > > > > about
> > > >people
> > > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear. Plus
> > > > > I
like
> >my
> > > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound
> > > > > system.
> >Before
> > > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will admit
> > > > > that a
> >stock
> > > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and cash
> > > > > into
my
> >rig
> > > >to
> > > > > hang in.
> > > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be too
wide
> >but
> > > >if
> > > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just pull a
> > > > > rock
> >buggy
> > > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never engage
> > > > > the
> >locker
> > > > > anyway)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Frank
> > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A Rubicon
gets
> >31"
> > > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room,
> > > > > >probably rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It
> > > > > >also has a
bigger
> > > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably gets
> > > > > >more envious looks (without a single modification) than most
> > > > > >Jeeps
that
> > > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really
> > > > > >matters...)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except under
> > > > > >the diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires.
> > > > > >That "road grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me
> > > > > >nauseous. What
a
> > > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a
> > > > > >special project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit
> > > > > >with a lack
> >of
> > > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground up,
> > > > > >and
the
> > > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically only
> >upgraded
> > > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and rear
> > > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some badass
> > > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper use
> > > > > >of
AL
> > > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would have a
> > > > > > hard
> >time
> > > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one? Ever
> >ridden
> > > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I have
> > > > > >done
> >all
> > > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2 might
> > > > > >be a
> >fun
> > > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s on
> > > > > >the
H2
> > > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep?
> > > > > >(Besides
> >the
> > > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving
> > > > > >other
> >rigs
> > > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect. Yeah, we
> > > > > >all love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne,
> > > > > >would
you?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look at
> > > > > > > an
H-2
> >in
> > > > > >TX on
> > > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards, didnt
> > > > > > > look
> >like
> > > > > >it was too
> > > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance in
> > > > > > > the
> >middle
> > > > > >but none
> > > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock ZJ
looks
> > > > > >like it has
> > > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon, I
> > > > > > > saw
one
> >at
> > > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that
> > > > > > > either
for
> > > > > >the price,
> > > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied with
> > > > > > > my
YJ
> > > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > > :-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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76283 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:35am
Subject: RE: RE: Table Mesa Cleanup wheeling?
Dave,
I have to disagree with you. Lets say that ALL the trash is dumped by
non shooters. If people come out and shoot it, I consider them now the
owner of that "target". To me this falls under the "leave it better then
you found it rule". On the other side of the coin - If you drive over it
(knowingly e.g. using a refrigerator and a ramp) you should pack it out
as well.
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Daver [mailto:daver@i...]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:46 AM
To: joey@d...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: [az_vjc] Table Mesa Cleanup wheeling?
P4W normally hands out fliers at the local shooting ranges (i.e. Ben
Avery and whatnot.)
John's comment about those not being the ones causing the problem though
is likely correct. A lot of the mess isn't even shooting, it is just
general dumping. Last time we were out there the boy-child couldn't
understand "why someone would hate a refrige rator so much to shoot it
so many times."
======= At 2003-01-23, 08:53:00 DesertJeep wrote: =======
>Do you know of any efforts made to inform the target shooting community
>of this clean up? What kind of "points" are we getting? We clean up the
>junk made by a totally different recreation and we keep the trails we
>wheel open? I feel our efforts would be better recognized if we found
>a way to educate the real responsible parties and have them clean up
>there own brethren's trash.
76284 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:40am
Subject: Jamboree
Ray,
I was just reminded that Oct. 4 - 12 is a "Rock Crawler, 4x4 Week" in
Farmington.......... Jack and I have to attend this event which would put
us out of the Jamboree here the weekend of Oct. 8-11. If we cannot find a
camping spot for the third weekend Jack will have to withdraw as Trails
Chairman for Jamboree.
I have consulted with Tammy re the use of Fire Box 200 along Mineral Mtn
Road but she wasn't very receptive to this....... I've been told the new
owner of the ranch on Cottonwood Canyon has said 4-wheelers can use this
area but it would still mean entering from Mineral Mtn and I'm doubtful
motorhomes can make it in this way. I know our rig wouldn't............
I don't know what Brad has found out about the Texaco station private lands
but even that isn't sounding feasible........
I'll work on Tammy and the ANG some more and see if we can't stay on the
third weekend at Fire box 200.
I'll keep in touch but I wanted you to know Jack and I cannot involve in
Jamboree if we're pushed to the weekend of Oct. 9-12.
Sandee
76285 From: Phil Thompson <ablockalypse@y...> <ablockalypse@y...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:05am
Subject: Re: Rubicon VS H2
He's right, it is a TJ. A YJ never would have made it that far. ;)
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "DesertJeep" <joey@d...> wrote:
> Nope Sound bar is on the wrong half of the roll cage. Must be a TJ.
> Beside only a TJ would need TWO tow straps!! ;)
>
> Joey K
> 93YJ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Ward [mailto:martinida@c...]
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:34 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com; BADAZXJ
XJArizona
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> Hey from this angle it could be a YJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> To: <Joe-CJ7@J...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>;
> <arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> >
> > Kia pulling TJ....
> >
> > (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com
oops
>
> > section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
> > sunday)
> >
> > Frank
> > BadAzXJ@m...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@J...>
> > >To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
> > >
> > >Frank,
> > >
> > >Where can I find the pictures?
> > >
> > >Joe Kearney
> > >Joe-CJ7@J...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ
side......
> > > > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> > > >
> > > > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too
bad...... :) The
>
> > > > nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people
just
> > >say
> > > > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I
get my
> junk
> > > > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > > > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a
few
> > > > good
> > >shots
> > >of
> > > > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from
> Sunday).....
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > > > >
> > > > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig. I
love
> > > > >my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The H2
woul
> d
> > >be
> > > > >ok
> > > > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for
> > > > >free...I'd
> > >sell
> > >it
> > > > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > > > >
> > > > >Martin
> > > > >
> > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP
magazine
> doing
> > >the
> > > > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand
due
> > > > > > to
> the
> > > > >rubicons
> > > > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the
> > > > > > stupid
> IFS,
> > >I
> > > > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday
anyway. I
> > > > > > have
> > >kids
> > > > >that
> > > > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without
worrying
> > > > > > about
> > > > >people
> > > > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear.
Plus
> > > > > > I
> like
> > >my
> > > > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound
> > > > > > system.
> > >Before
> > > > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will
admit
> > > > > > that a
> > >stock
> > > > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and
cash
> > > > > > into
> my
> > >rig
> > > > >to
> > > > > > hang in.
> > > > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might
be too
> wide
> > >but
> > > > >if
> > > > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just
pull a
> > > > > > rock
> > >buggy
> > > > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never
engage
> > > > > > the
> > >locker
> > > > > > anyway)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Frank
> > > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A
Rubicon
> gets
> > >31"
> > > > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room,
> > > > > > >probably rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors.
It
> > > > > > >also has a
> bigger
> > > > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably
gets
> > > > > > >more envious looks (without a single modification) than
most
> > > > > > >Jeeps
> that
> > > > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really
> > > > > > >matters...)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except
under
>
> > > > > > >the diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller
tires.
> > > > > > >That "road grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes
me
> > > > > > >nauseous. What
> a
> > > > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a
> > > > > > >special project like the Rubicon and screw it up a
little bit
>
> > > > > > >with a lack
> > >of
> > > > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground
up,
> > > > > > >and
> the
> > > > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically
only
> > >upgraded
> > > > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and
rear
>
> > > > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some
badass
>
> > > > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an
improper use
>
> > > > > > >of
> AL
> > > > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would
have a
> > > > > > > hard
> > >time
> > > > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one?
Ever
> > >ridden
> > > > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I
have
> > > > > > >done
> > >all
> > > > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2
might
> > > > > > >be a
> > >fun
> > > > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft
38s on
> > > > > > >the
> H2
> > > > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep?
> > > > > > >(Besides
> > >the
> > > > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start
giving
> > > > > > >other
> > >rigs
> > > > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect.
Yeah, we
>
> > > > > > >all love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche
Cayenne,
> > > > > > >would
> you?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good
look at
> > > > > > > > an
> H-2
> > >in
> > > > > > >TX on
> > > > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards,
didnt
> > > > > > > > look
> > >like
> > > > > > >it was too
> > > > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance
in
> > > > > > > > the
> > >middle
> > > > > > >but none
> > > > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be
stock ZJ
> looks
> > > > > > >like it has
> > > > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the
Rubicon, I
> > > > > > > > saw
> one
> > >at
> > > > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that
> > > > > > > > either
> for
> > > > > > >the price,
> > > > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied
with
>
> > > > > > > > my
> YJ
> > > > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > > > :-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
__________________________________________________ ____________
> > > > > > ___
> > > > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
__________________________________________________ _______________
> > > > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76286 From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...> <jeepindog@y...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:12am
Subject: Re: Rubicon VS H2
KIA is not a bad manufacturer. In fact, they make some pretty
decent vehicles. Remember when a Honda was the cheapest piece of
****e you could find on the road? (I do.) KIA never made a cheap
car, but they do make some very inexpensive cars. The fact that they
make one with a two-speed transfer case that did pretty well in the
4x4 of the Year comparison (the actual 'wheelin part) that is
actually affordable and well-made should earn it some well-deserved
respect. Jeep Jeep Jeep. Don't you guys ever get tired of eating
the same thing for lunch? I will always own my Jeep, and love it and
all Jeeps. There are other vehicles out there that are very good at
some of the things that Jeeps are good at. Not *as* good, but
close. And if a Jeep driver just happens to get the Jeep stuck
(won't mention driver's ability) who cares who pulls it out? Maybe
DC should start charging extra for the God Complex that comes with
owning a Jeep!
Lachlan
In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Clint Ramsey" <cwramsey@t...> wrote:
>
> I almost vomited when I opened that picture
>
> Clint
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
> To: Joe-CJ7@J...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> Kia pulling TJ....
>
> (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com
oops
> section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
> sunday)
>
> Frank
> BadAzXJ@m...
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@J...>
> >To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
> >
> >Frank,
> >
> >Where can I find the pictures?
> >
> >Joe Kearney
> >Joe-CJ7@J...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ side......
> > > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> > >
> > > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too bad...... :)
> > > The nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people
> just
> >say
> > > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I get
my
> junk
> > > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few
good
> >shots
> >of
> > > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from
> Sunday).....
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > > >
> > > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig.
> > > >I love my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The
H2
> would
> >be
> > > >ok
> > > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for
free...I'd
>
> >sell
> >it
> > > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > > >
> > > >Martin
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP
magazine
> doing
> >the
> > > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand
due to
> the
> > > >rubicons
> > > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the
stupid
> IFS,
> >I
> > > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > > >
> > > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday anyway. I
> have
> >kids
> > > >that
> > > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without worrying
> about
> > > >people
> > > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear.
Plus I
> like
> >my
> > > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound
system.
> >Before
> > > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will admit
that
> a
> >stock
> > > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and cash
into
> my
> >rig
> > > >to
> > > > > hang in.
> > > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be
too
> wide
> >but
> > > >if
> > > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just pull a
> rock
> >buggy
> > > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never
engage
> the
> >locker
> > > > > anyway)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Frank
> > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A
Rubicon
> gets
> >31"
> > > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room,
> probably
> > > > > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also has a
> bigger
> > > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably gets
more
> > > > > >envious looks (without a single modification) than most
Jeeps
> that
> > > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really
> matters...)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except
under
> the
> > > > > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires. That
> "road
> > > > > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me nauseous.
> What a
> > > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a
special
> > > > > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit with
a
> lack
> >of
> > > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground up,
and
> the
> > > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically
only
> >upgraded
> > > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and
rear
> > > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some
badass
> > > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper
use
> of AL
> > > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would have a
> hard
> >time
> > > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one?
Ever
> >ridden
> > > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I have
> done
> >all
> > > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2
might be
> a
> >fun
> > > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s
on
> the H2
> > > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep?
> (Besides
> >the
> > > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving
other
>
> >rigs
> > > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect. Yeah,
we
> all
> > > > > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne,
would
> you?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look
at an
> H-2
> >in
> > > > > >TX on
> > > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards, didnt
look
>
> >like
> > > > > >it was too
> > > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance
in the
> >middle
> > > > > >but none
> > > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock
ZJ
> looks
> > > > > >like it has
> > > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon,
I saw
> one
> >at
> > > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that
either
> for
> > > > > >the price,
> > > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied
with
> my YJ
> > > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > > :-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> > > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
__________________________________________________ _______________
> > > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76287 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:12am
Subject: Today's Humor: Jeep sking
Has any one with a leaf sprung Jeep removed their axles to go skiing. I
was wondering what the right lift spring would be optimal and how you
worked out the steering?
Joey K
93YJ - LMAO
76288 From: matt_berend <greybear@p...> <greybear@p...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:24am
Subject: would this work?
I wanted to get some oppinions on this setup I'm considering.
Rusty's 3" lift, 1" body lift.
the goal would be to fit 35" tires and get good articulation. I don't
do much off-roading now but would like to be able to do it more
often. I'm not looking to tackle any major trails just doing some fun
backcountry camping and playing.
What are some of the things I should watch out for with a setup like
this? Also am I going to have odd drive shaft angles etc.
Thanks,
Matt
76289 From: Janice Allison <jallison@a...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:28am
Subject: I'm such a loser!
Well, my Jeep just got a clean bill of health from 4 Wheelers, so I'm ready
to hit the dirt. Problem is, I seem to have forgotten how to sign up for
trips posted on the site. Can someone please inform me? Thanks.
Jan
Janice Allison, Business Manager
University of Arizona
Maricopa County Cooperative Extension
4341 E. Broadway Road, Phoenix AZ 85040
(602) 470-8086, ext. 362
76290 From: ccgaiser <ccgaiser@h...> <ccgaiser@h...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:43am
Subject: Re: East Valley Jeep Show/Get-together
I agree Nasser, Where is it????
Chris
66 CJ-5 on the east side. :-)
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Clint Ramsey" <cwramsey@t...> wrote:
> Where is it at? I might con the ol' lady into stopping by.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nasser [mailto:nasser88@c...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 4:50 PM
> To: Az_Vjc@Yahoogroups. Com
> Subject: [az_vjc] East Valley Jeep Show/Get-together
>
> Folks,
>
> This is just a reminder:
>
> This coming Friday evening the 24th there is a car show that we've
been
> invited to attend. It is a very casual event. It is a great
> opportunity to
> meet other club members and chat. Bring your cameras, as there are
> antique
> autos, classics, some military vehicles, etc.
>
> Last year we had a dozen members show up and we had a great time.
The
> event
> starts at 5:45ish until 8:00 pm or so, and you can come and go as
you
> please.
>
> Come and check it out,
>
> Nasser
> Ps West Valley members are invited if you don't mind the drive.
>
>
> Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76291 From: Bill - Jeeps Only <bill@j...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:30am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2
Now see, any one of those Jeeps just parked there should have jumped in to
prevent that embarassment! :-)
---------------
Bill Hooven
Jeeps Only
http://www.jeepsonly.com
A Yahoo-style directory of Jeep links
---------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
To: <Joe-CJ7@J...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>;
<arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
> Kia pulling TJ....
>
> (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com oops
> section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from sunday)
>
> Frank
> BadAzXJ@m...
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@J...>
> >To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
> >
> >Frank,
> >
> >Where can I find the pictures?
> >
> >Joe Kearney
> >Joe-CJ7@J...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ side......
> > > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> > >
> > > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too bad...... :)
> > > The nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people just
> >say
> > > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I get my
junk
> > > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few good
> >shots
> >of
> > > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from
Sunday).....
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > > >
> > > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig.
> > > >I love my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The H2
would
> >be
> > > >ok
> > > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for free...I'd
> >sell
> >it
> > > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > > >
> > > >Martin
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP magazine
doing
> >the
> > > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand due to
the
> > > >rubicons
> > > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the stupid
IFS,
> >I
> > > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > > >
> > > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday anyway. I have
> >kids
> > > >that
> > > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without worrying about
> > > >people
> > > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear. Plus I
like
> >my
> > > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound system.
> >Before
> > > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will admit that a
> >stock
> > > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and cash into
my
> >rig
> > > >to
> > > > > hang in.
> > > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be too
wide
> >but
> > > >if
> > > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just pull a rock
> >buggy
> > > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never engage the
> >locker
> > > > > anyway)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Frank
> > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A Rubicon
gets
> >31"
> > > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room, probably
> > > > > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also has a
bigger
> > > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably gets more
> > > > > >envious looks (without a single modification) than most Jeeps
that
> > > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really matters...)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except under the
> > > > > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires. That "road
> > > > > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me nauseous. What
a
> > > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a special
> > > > > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit with a lack
> >of
> > > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground up, and
the
> > > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically only
> >upgraded
> > > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and rear
> > > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some badass
> > > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper use of
AL
> > > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would have a hard
> >time
> > > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one? Ever
> >ridden
> > > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I have done
> >all
> > > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2 might be a
> >fun
> > > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s on the
H2
> > > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep? (Besides
> >the
> > > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving other
> >rigs
> > > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect. Yeah, we all
> > > > > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne, would
you?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look at an
H-2
> >in
> > > > > >TX on
> > > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards, didnt look
> >like
> > > > > >it was too
> > > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance in the
> >middle
> > > > > >but none
> > > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock ZJ
looks
> > > > > >like it has
> > > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon, I saw
one
> >at
> > > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that either
for
> > > > > >the price,
> > > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied with my
YJ
> > > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > > :-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
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> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
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> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
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>
>
76292 From: BradP Kilgore <brad.kilgore@p...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:59am
Subject: RE: I'm such a loser!
Go to http://azvjc.org . Login if necessary and click on Trips to the
left. Browse through and select the trip you would like to attend, then
click on Add My Name to This List. Your name should then appear in the
Trip Attendees list.
I hope this helps.
Brad
-----Original Message-----
From: Janice Allison [mailto:jallison@a...]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] I'm such a loser!
Well, my Jeep just got a clean bill of health from 4 Wheelers, so I'm
ready
to hit the dirt. Problem is, I seem to have forgotten how to sign up
for
trips posted on the site. Can someone please inform me? Thanks.
Jan
Janice Allison, Business Manager
University of Arizona
Maricopa County Cooperative Extension
4341 E. Broadway Road, Phoenix AZ 85040
(602) 470-8086, ext. 362
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76293 From: Montgomery, David <dmontgomery@s...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 0:06pm
Subject: Suspension Upgrade
OK, I have pondered this for some time now and need some advice:
I am mostly a lurker but do try to see what is going on to with the list and have met many of you for lunch or BBQ or on Crown King Run etc.
When considering upgrading
From: Dana44 rear and D30 front Currently SUA with RE 4.5 Extreme Duty YJ lift on a CJ.
To: Dana60 Front and GM 14 Bolt Rear with 39.5 Swampers,
Should I:
Go SOA with 1" or 2.5" YJ leafs and shackle reversal front?
Go Coils all the way around?
Save the $ and pop for the coil overs!?
Go SOA front and Coil Rear or ¼ elliptical.
How about moving the rear axle back - no doubt the 14bolt will hit the aftermarket skid plate on the factory 20 gallon fuel tank - I expect to have to move this up into the bed (fuel cell?) anyway. Or move the front axle further forward?
Don't worry I expect a lot of fab work etc. for Steering, Anti Axle wrap etc.
So there it is what do you think?
Dave
dmontgomery@sjm.com
'83 CJ-7
350TBI Chevy
700R4
D300 (4:1)
D44 rear (ARB)
D30 front (ARB/297X Axles)
4.5" RE YJ Extreme Duty Susp.
*****************************
This communication may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential or legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not a named addressee, you are notified that you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this communication without the consent of the sender and that doing so may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender via return e-mail and delete it from your computer. Thank you. St. Jude Medical, Inc.
*****************************
76294 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 0:13pm
Subject: [FS] Kargomaster Roof Rack FS
Price: 350.00
Contact: Jason 623-879-9178
I have the congo cage and Serengeti Telescoping rack for sale. These were on my 2001 TJ for approx. 5 months and was taken off when I traded the Jeep in. With the setup also comes a kit to mount 2 lights, and the mount for a HiLift. This set up cost me over $700, and was ordered from www.quadratec.com. This rack has a 500 pound capacity, and can be used with a hard top or soft top or no top. For more information check out KargoMasters web site at www.kargomaster.com
Any questions feel free to contact me at abercrombie3952@aol.com or give me a call at 623-879-9178
Jason Warren
76295 From: Darren Richards <darren.richards@m...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 0:14pm
Subject: Re: Today's Humor: Jeep sking
I've never tried that, but when the snow gets too deep here in Phoenix I
slap a set of these on my Jeep:
http://www.mattracks.com
DesertJeep wrote:
> Has any one with a leaf sprung Jeep removed their axles to go skiing. I
> was wondering what the right lift spring would be optimal and how you
> worked out the steering?
>
> Joey K
> 93YJ - LMAO
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
76296 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 0:24pm
Subject: [FS] 1970 Kaiser CJ5 with military style trailer
Price: $4,500.00
Contact: a071567@allstate.com or (928)776-0976 Ask for Sue
Original V6 3sp. Original steel hard top, air conditioning(!). All very straight, clean.
Jack Mattox
76297 From: Rob Williams <g_rob_williams@y...> <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 0:24pm
Subject: Re: 15x10 589s and stuff still for sale
Sorry, the link didn't work.... try this...
http://www.wingnutskates.com/forsale.htm
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Williams <g_rob_williams@y...>"
<g_rob_williams@y...> wrote:
> I still have my 5 15x10 589s 5 on 4.5 I'm selling for $250 I have
> pics of it on my website and I also have a lot of other misc stuff
I
> want to get rid of on there like Chevy brushguard, 75 Gallon Salt
> tank, Ford Explorer/Ranger spare...
> http://www.wingnutskates.com/forsale -Rob
76298 From: Rob Williams <g_rob_williams@y...> <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 0:27pm
Subject: Re: Today's Humor: Jeep sking
I saw that Superduty Truck at SEMA... after the last day of the show
when we were all getting our trucks and stuff out of the building we
saw that guy tearing down the road with the trax still on it.... if
you thought boggers were loud you aint heard nothin! LOL -Rob
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Darren Richards
<darren.richards@m...> wrote:
> I've never tried that, but when the snow gets too deep here in
Phoenix I
> slap a set of these on my Jeep:
>
> http://www.mattracks.com
>
>
> DesertJeep wrote:
>
> > Has any one with a leaf sprung Jeep removed their axles to go
skiing. I
> > was wondering what the right lift spring would be optimal and
how you
> > worked out the steering?
> >
> > Joey K
> > 93YJ - LMAO
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
76299 From: Trujillo, Jeff <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 0:27pm
Subject: RE: Today's Humor: Jeep sking
That is sweet. I just found my next project...of course I will have to move
to where the snow is LOL
Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice:(480)346-6249
Fax:(480)346-6813
-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Richards [mailto:darren.richards@m...]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 1:14 PM
To: joey@d...
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Today's Humor: Jeep sking
I've never tried that, but when the snow gets too deep here in Phoenix I
slap a set of these on my Jeep:
http://www.mattracks.com
DesertJeep wrote:
> Has any one with a leaf sprung Jeep removed their axles to go skiing. I
> was wondering what the right lift spring would be optimal and how you
> worked out the steering?
>
> Joey K
> 93YJ - LMAO
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
76300 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 0:58pm
Subject: [FS] 98 Chevy Silverado $12,200
Price: $12,200
Contact: Rick Klarer (602) 978-8695
1998 silver chevy silverado, v-6, 2wd, towpackage, 60k or so. please call for more info this is my parents truck so I dont know all of the details.
Brandon Carnicle
76301 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 0:59pm
Subject: [FS] BUMPER AND TIRE CARRIER FOR CJ/YJ
Price: $350 firm
Contact: KEITH-(602)300-8051 or BMXCOW222@YAHOO.COM
Bumper and tire carrier in excellent condition. Will fit any cj or yj, but is currently a direct bolt on for a cj. Allows you to get the weight of that heavy spare off your body and onto the frame. Also includes some heavy duty mounting brackets. Pictures are now available.
Keith Bowcut
76277 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:47am
Subject: [TR] Coves of Saguaro Lake - Saturday, February 8, 2003
Hello All,
Jeffrey Trujillo is leading a Coves of Saguaro Lake trail run on Saturday, February 8, 2003.
When: Meet inside the gate at Butcher Jones at 0900 AM
Where: First Cove unless someone has a better place. Just let me know.
Rating: 2.5+
Length: 4-5
CB Channel: 4
This run is for the KIDS. If your kids have a JEEP of their own and they are tired of riding in your jeep or backyard then this is the perfect time to let them do some of their own wheelin'. We could have a BBQ for lunch so bring something to grill and something to drink. I will bring the grill to cook on (if I can fit it in the XJ). If you have any suggestions on a better place let me know! 480-213-1976
At the Coves of Saguaro Lake, there are at least 4 coves to play in, on, and around. Many hill climbs provide a challenge to all levels of 4-Wheelers and vehicles.
Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
76278 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:57am
Subject: RE: Table Mesa shooting?
This Saturday will most likely be the only safe Saturday out there.
As dumb as many are, they don't show up with a gun in hand and stand ankle
deep in the pile of brass and shotguns shells that a group of off-roaders is
cleaning up. They have figured out when to stay away.
LOL
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: robert_j_rogers2 <robert.rogers@h...>
[mailto:robert.rogers@h...]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:34 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Table Mesa shooting?
Has the agencies thought about posting the area no shooting during
the clean-up. It would not be fun to "dodge lead" while picking up
the mess. Some of the shooters may not want to stop long enough to
let us clean the target area.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76279 From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...> <tomasr@a...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:59am
Subject: Re: Table Mesa Cleanup wheeling?
Joey,
The shooters that trash places like Table Mesa are the hardest to
reach and that makes educating them difficult. This is why I
approached the Game and Fish department last year and requested they
create a "pack it in, pack it out" type of TV commercial similar to
their "stay on the trails" commercial.
It's also the reason why I attended a meeting on ensuring the
survival of the Ben Avery shooting range. Without it, some of the
people who currently shoot at the range might resort to shooting at
places like Table Mesa.
But I certainly agree that it would be nice - and very appropriate -
if some of the shooting clubs would pitch in just like we do.
-Roger
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "DesertJeep" <joey@d...> wrote:
> Sandee,
>
> Do you know of any efforts made to inform the target shooting
community
> of this clean up? What kind of "points" are we getting? We clean up
the
> junk made by a totally different recreation and we keep the trails
we
> wheel open? I feel our efforts would be better recognized if we
found a
> way to educate the real responsible parties and have them clean up
there
> own brethren's trash.
>
> Joey K
> 93YJ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sandee McCullen [mailto:mccullen@c...]
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 8:19 AM
> To: cj4rox@y...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Table Mesa Cleanup wheeling?
>
>
> There are a number of groups going out on trails after the
cleanup. The
> intent is not to "clean" the trails..... we do that normally. The
> clean up is mostly for the large dump and shooting
areas............. I
> know, it's not our mess but it's one of the easiest ways to "make
> points" with the agencies!
>
> I know there is a "sign-in" sheet for everyone............. is the
VJC
> going to have one of their own??? I'll have a table with State
Permits
> near the sign-in area. Can do a VJC sign-in there if you'd
like........
>
> See you there. Sandee
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cj4rox <cj4rox@y...> [mailto:cj4rox@y...]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 7:51 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Table Mesa Cleanup wheeling?
> >
> >
> > Is anyone planning on running any trails after the cleanup? Or,
is
> > that the point, to pick a trail & clean it? Or are we just doing
the
> > parking & wash areas around the entrance? Trying to figure out
what I
>
> > need to pack for gear.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Dan Siegel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76280 From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...> <tomasr@a...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:06am
Subject: Re: Table Mesa Cleanup wheeling?
Dave,
I must disagree. I participated in last year's clean-up and I feel
that 95% of the trash is shooters' trash. Besides, you never know
whether that old fridge was simply dumped or brought out by a shooter
to be used as a target.
By the way, a common target seemed to be propane tanks like you use
with a BBQ grill. I wonder if those tanks actually contained any
propane when they were first shot. I imagine they did. Those
shooters seem to like targets that provide the biggest effect when
shot.
-Roger
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Daver" <daver@i...> wrote:
> P4W normally hands out fliers at the local shooting ranges (i.e.
Ben Avery and whatnot.)
>
> John's comment about those not being the ones causing the problem
though is likely correct. A lot of the mess isn't even shooting, it
is just general dumping. Last time we were out there the boy-child
couldn't understand "why someone would hate a refrige
> rator so much to shoot it so many times."
>
> ======= At 2003-01-23, 08:53:00 DesertJeep wrote: =======
> >Do you know of any efforts made to inform the target shooting
community
> >of this clean up? What kind of "points" are we getting? We clean
up the
> >junk made by a totally different recreation and we keep the trails
we
> >wheel open? I feel our efforts would be better recognized if we
found a
> >way to educate the real responsible parties and have them clean up
there
> >own brethren's trash.
76281 From: Rob Williams <g_rob_williams@y...> <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:07am
Subject: 15x10 589s and stuff still for sale
I still have my 5 15x10 589s 5 on 4.5 I'm selling for $250 I have
pics of it on my website and I also have a lot of other misc stuff I
want to get rid of on there like Chevy brushguard, 75 Gallon Salt
tank, Ford Explorer/Ranger spare...
http://www.wingnutskates.com/forsale -Rob
76282 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:14am
Subject: RE: Re: Rubicon VS H2
Nope Sound bar is on the wrong half of the roll cage. Must be a TJ.
Beside only a TJ would need TWO tow straps!! ;)
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Ward [mailto:martinida@c...]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:34 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com; BADAZXJ XJArizona
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
Hey from this angle it could be a YJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
To: <Joe-CJ7@J...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>;
<arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
> Kia pulling TJ....
>
> (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com oops
> section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
> sunday)
>
> Frank
> BadAzXJ@m...
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@J...>
> >To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
> >
> >Frank,
> >
> >Where can I find the pictures?
> >
> >Joe Kearney
> >Joe-CJ7@J...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ side......
> > > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> > >
> > > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too bad...... :) The
> > > nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people just
> >say
> > > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I get my
junk
> > > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few
> > > good
> >shots
> >of
> > > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from
Sunday).....
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > > >
> > > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig. I love
> > > >my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The H2 woul
d
> >be
> > > >ok
> > > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for
> > > >free...I'd
> >sell
> >it
> > > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > > >
> > > >Martin
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP magazine
doing
> >the
> > > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand due
> > > > > to
the
> > > >rubicons
> > > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the
> > > > > stupid
IFS,
> >I
> > > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > > >
> > > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday anyway. I
> > > > > have
> >kids
> > > >that
> > > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without worrying
> > > > > about
> > > >people
> > > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear. Plus
> > > > > I
like
> >my
> > > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound
> > > > > system.
> >Before
> > > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will admit
> > > > > that a
> >stock
> > > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and cash
> > > > > into
my
> >rig
> > > >to
> > > > > hang in.
> > > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be too
wide
> >but
> > > >if
> > > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just pull a
> > > > > rock
> >buggy
> > > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never engage
> > > > > the
> >locker
> > > > > anyway)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Frank
> > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A Rubicon
gets
> >31"
> > > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room,
> > > > > >probably rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It
> > > > > >also has a
bigger
> > > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably gets
> > > > > >more envious looks (without a single modification) than most
> > > > > >Jeeps
that
> > > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really
> > > > > >matters...)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except under
> > > > > >the diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires.
> > > > > >That "road grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me
> > > > > >nauseous. What
a
> > > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a
> > > > > >special project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit
> > > > > >with a lack
> >of
> > > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground up,
> > > > > >and
the
> > > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically only
> >upgraded
> > > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and rear
> > > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some badass
> > > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper use
> > > > > >of
AL
> > > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would have a
> > > > > > hard
> >time
> > > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one? Ever
> >ridden
> > > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I have
> > > > > >done
> >all
> > > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2 might
> > > > > >be a
> >fun
> > > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s on
> > > > > >the
H2
> > > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep?
> > > > > >(Besides
> >the
> > > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving
> > > > > >other
> >rigs
> > > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect. Yeah, we
> > > > > >all love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne,
> > > > > >would
you?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look at
> > > > > > > an
H-2
> >in
> > > > > >TX on
> > > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards, didnt
> > > > > > > look
> >like
> > > > > >it was too
> > > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance in
> > > > > > > the
> >middle
> > > > > >but none
> > > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock ZJ
looks
> > > > > >like it has
> > > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon, I
> > > > > > > saw
one
> >at
> > > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that
> > > > > > > either
for
> > > > > >the price,
> > > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied with
> > > > > > > my
YJ
> > > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > > :-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________________________ ____________
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
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> > >
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> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
>
>
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>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76283 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:35am
Subject: RE: RE: Table Mesa Cleanup wheeling?
Dave,
I have to disagree with you. Lets say that ALL the trash is dumped by
non shooters. If people come out and shoot it, I consider them now the
owner of that "target". To me this falls under the "leave it better then
you found it rule". On the other side of the coin - If you drive over it
(knowingly e.g. using a refrigerator and a ramp) you should pack it out
as well.
Joey K
93YJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Daver [mailto:daver@i...]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:46 AM
To: joey@d...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: [az_vjc] Table Mesa Cleanup wheeling?
P4W normally hands out fliers at the local shooting ranges (i.e. Ben
Avery and whatnot.)
John's comment about those not being the ones causing the problem though
is likely correct. A lot of the mess isn't even shooting, it is just
general dumping. Last time we were out there the boy-child couldn't
understand "why someone would hate a refrige rator so much to shoot it
so many times."
======= At 2003-01-23, 08:53:00 DesertJeep wrote: =======
>Do you know of any efforts made to inform the target shooting community
>of this clean up? What kind of "points" are we getting? We clean up the
>junk made by a totally different recreation and we keep the trails we
>wheel open? I feel our efforts would be better recognized if we found
>a way to educate the real responsible parties and have them clean up
>there own brethren's trash.
76284 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:40am
Subject: Jamboree
Ray,
I was just reminded that Oct. 4 - 12 is a "Rock Crawler, 4x4 Week" in
Farmington.......... Jack and I have to attend this event which would put
us out of the Jamboree here the weekend of Oct. 8-11. If we cannot find a
camping spot for the third weekend Jack will have to withdraw as Trails
Chairman for Jamboree.
I have consulted with Tammy re the use of Fire Box 200 along Mineral Mtn
Road but she wasn't very receptive to this....... I've been told the new
owner of the ranch on Cottonwood Canyon has said 4-wheelers can use this
area but it would still mean entering from Mineral Mtn and I'm doubtful
motorhomes can make it in this way. I know our rig wouldn't............
I don't know what Brad has found out about the Texaco station private lands
but even that isn't sounding feasible........
I'll work on Tammy and the ANG some more and see if we can't stay on the
third weekend at Fire box 200.
I'll keep in touch but I wanted you to know Jack and I cannot involve in
Jamboree if we're pushed to the weekend of Oct. 9-12.
Sandee
76285 From: Phil Thompson <ablockalypse@y...> <ablockalypse@y...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:05am
Subject: Re: Rubicon VS H2
He's right, it is a TJ. A YJ never would have made it that far. ;)
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "DesertJeep" <joey@d...> wrote:
> Nope Sound bar is on the wrong half of the roll cage. Must be a TJ.
> Beside only a TJ would need TWO tow straps!! ;)
>
> Joey K
> 93YJ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Ward [mailto:martinida@c...]
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:34 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com; BADAZXJ
XJArizona
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> Hey from this angle it could be a YJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> To: <Joe-CJ7@J...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>;
> <arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> >
> > Kia pulling TJ....
> >
> > (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com
oops
>
> > section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
> > sunday)
> >
> > Frank
> > BadAzXJ@m...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@J...>
> > >To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
> > >
> > >Frank,
> > >
> > >Where can I find the pictures?
> > >
> > >Joe Kearney
> > >Joe-CJ7@J...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ
side......
> > > > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> > > >
> > > > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too
bad...... :) The
>
> > > > nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people
just
> > >say
> > > > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I
get my
> junk
> > > > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > > > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a
few
> > > > good
> > >shots
> > >of
> > > > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from
> Sunday).....
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > > > >
> > > > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig. I
love
> > > > >my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The H2
woul
> d
> > >be
> > > > >ok
> > > > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for
> > > > >free...I'd
> > >sell
> > >it
> > > > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > > > >
> > > > >Martin
> > > > >
> > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP
magazine
> doing
> > >the
> > > > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand
due
> > > > > > to
> the
> > > > >rubicons
> > > > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the
> > > > > > stupid
> IFS,
> > >I
> > > > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday
anyway. I
> > > > > > have
> > >kids
> > > > >that
> > > > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without
worrying
> > > > > > about
> > > > >people
> > > > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear.
Plus
> > > > > > I
> like
> > >my
> > > > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound
> > > > > > system.
> > >Before
> > > > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will
admit
> > > > > > that a
> > >stock
> > > > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and
cash
> > > > > > into
> my
> > >rig
> > > > >to
> > > > > > hang in.
> > > > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might
be too
> wide
> > >but
> > > > >if
> > > > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just
pull a
> > > > > > rock
> > >buggy
> > > > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never
engage
> > > > > > the
> > >locker
> > > > > > anyway)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Frank
> > > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A
Rubicon
> gets
> > >31"
> > > > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room,
> > > > > > >probably rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors.
It
> > > > > > >also has a
> bigger
> > > > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably
gets
> > > > > > >more envious looks (without a single modification) than
most
> > > > > > >Jeeps
> that
> > > > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really
> > > > > > >matters...)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except
under
>
> > > > > > >the diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller
tires.
> > > > > > >That "road grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes
me
> > > > > > >nauseous. What
> a
> > > > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a
> > > > > > >special project like the Rubicon and screw it up a
little bit
>
> > > > > > >with a lack
> > >of
> > > > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground
up,
> > > > > > >and
> the
> > > > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically
only
> > >upgraded
> > > > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and
rear
>
> > > > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some
badass
>
> > > > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an
improper use
>
> > > > > > >of
> AL
> > > > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would
have a
> > > > > > > hard
> > >time
> > > > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one?
Ever
> > >ridden
> > > > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I
have
> > > > > > >done
> > >all
> > > > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2
might
> > > > > > >be a
> > >fun
> > > > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft
38s on
> > > > > > >the
> H2
> > > > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep?
> > > > > > >(Besides
> > >the
> > > > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start
giving
> > > > > > >other
> > >rigs
> > > > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect.
Yeah, we
>
> > > > > > >all love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche
Cayenne,
> > > > > > >would
> you?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good
look at
> > > > > > > > an
> H-2
> > >in
> > > > > > >TX on
> > > > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards,
didnt
> > > > > > > > look
> > >like
> > > > > > >it was too
> > > > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance
in
> > > > > > > > the
> > >middle
> > > > > > >but none
> > > > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be
stock ZJ
> looks
> > > > > > >like it has
> > > > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the
Rubicon, I
> > > > > > > > saw
> one
> > >at
> > > > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that
> > > > > > > > either
> for
> > > > > > >the price,
> > > > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied
with
>
> > > > > > > > my
> YJ
> > > > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > > > :-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
__________________________________________________ ____________
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
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>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76286 From: Lachlan <jeepindog@y...> <jeepindog@y...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:12am
Subject: Re: Rubicon VS H2
KIA is not a bad manufacturer. In fact, they make some pretty
decent vehicles. Remember when a Honda was the cheapest piece of
****e you could find on the road? (I do.) KIA never made a cheap
car, but they do make some very inexpensive cars. The fact that they
make one with a two-speed transfer case that did pretty well in the
4x4 of the Year comparison (the actual 'wheelin part) that is
actually affordable and well-made should earn it some well-deserved
respect. Jeep Jeep Jeep. Don't you guys ever get tired of eating
the same thing for lunch? I will always own my Jeep, and love it and
all Jeeps. There are other vehicles out there that are very good at
some of the things that Jeeps are good at. Not *as* good, but
close. And if a Jeep driver just happens to get the Jeep stuck
(won't mention driver's ability) who cares who pulls it out? Maybe
DC should start charging extra for the God Complex that comes with
owning a Jeep!
Lachlan
In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Clint Ramsey" <cwramsey@t...> wrote:
>
> I almost vomited when I opened that picture
>
> Clint
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
> To: Joe-CJ7@J...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
> arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> Kia pulling TJ....
>
> (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com
oops
> section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
> sunday)
>
> Frank
> BadAzXJ@m...
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@J...>
> >To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
> >
> >Frank,
> >
> >Where can I find the pictures?
> >
> >Joe Kearney
> >Joe-CJ7@J...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ side......
> > > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> > >
> > > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too bad...... :)
> > > The nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people
> just
> >say
> > > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I get
my
> junk
> > > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few
good
> >shots
> >of
> > > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from
> Sunday).....
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > > >
> > > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig.
> > > >I love my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The
H2
> would
> >be
> > > >ok
> > > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for
free...I'd
>
> >sell
> >it
> > > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > > >
> > > >Martin
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP
magazine
> doing
> >the
> > > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand
due to
> the
> > > >rubicons
> > > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the
stupid
> IFS,
> >I
> > > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > > >
> > > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday anyway. I
> have
> >kids
> > > >that
> > > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without worrying
> about
> > > >people
> > > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear.
Plus I
> like
> >my
> > > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound
system.
> >Before
> > > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will admit
that
> a
> >stock
> > > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and cash
into
> my
> >rig
> > > >to
> > > > > hang in.
> > > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be
too
> wide
> >but
> > > >if
> > > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just pull a
> rock
> >buggy
> > > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never
engage
> the
> >locker
> > > > > anyway)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Frank
> > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A
Rubicon
> gets
> >31"
> > > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room,
> probably
> > > > > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also has a
> bigger
> > > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably gets
more
> > > > > >envious looks (without a single modification) than most
Jeeps
> that
> > > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really
> matters...)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except
under
> the
> > > > > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires. That
> "road
> > > > > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me nauseous.
> What a
> > > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a
special
> > > > > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit with
a
> lack
> >of
> > > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground up,
and
> the
> > > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically
only
> >upgraded
> > > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and
rear
> > > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some
badass
> > > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper
use
> of AL
> > > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would have a
> hard
> >time
> > > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one?
Ever
> >ridden
> > > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I have
> done
> >all
> > > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2
might be
> a
> >fun
> > > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s
on
> the H2
> > > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep?
> (Besides
> >the
> > > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving
other
>
> >rigs
> > > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect. Yeah,
we
> all
> > > > > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne,
would
> you?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look
at an
> H-2
> >in
> > > > > >TX on
> > > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards, didnt
look
>
> >like
> > > > > >it was too
> > > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance
in the
> >middle
> > > > > >but none
> > > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock
ZJ
> looks
> > > > > >like it has
> > > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon,
I saw
> one
> >at
> > > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that
either
> for
> > > > > >the price,
> > > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied
with
> my YJ
> > > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > > :-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> > > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
__________________________________________________ _______________
> > > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
>
>
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76287 From: DesertJeep <joey@d...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:12am
Subject: Today's Humor: Jeep sking
Has any one with a leaf sprung Jeep removed their axles to go skiing. I
was wondering what the right lift spring would be optimal and how you
worked out the steering?
Joey K
93YJ - LMAO
76288 From: matt_berend <greybear@p...> <greybear@p...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:24am
Subject: would this work?
I wanted to get some oppinions on this setup I'm considering.
Rusty's 3" lift, 1" body lift.
the goal would be to fit 35" tires and get good articulation. I don't
do much off-roading now but would like to be able to do it more
often. I'm not looking to tackle any major trails just doing some fun
backcountry camping and playing.
What are some of the things I should watch out for with a setup like
this? Also am I going to have odd drive shaft angles etc.
Thanks,
Matt
76289 From: Janice Allison <jallison@a...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:28am
Subject: I'm such a loser!
Well, my Jeep just got a clean bill of health from 4 Wheelers, so I'm ready
to hit the dirt. Problem is, I seem to have forgotten how to sign up for
trips posted on the site. Can someone please inform me? Thanks.
Jan
Janice Allison, Business Manager
University of Arizona
Maricopa County Cooperative Extension
4341 E. Broadway Road, Phoenix AZ 85040
(602) 470-8086, ext. 362
76290 From: ccgaiser <ccgaiser@h...> <ccgaiser@h...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:43am
Subject: Re: East Valley Jeep Show/Get-together
I agree Nasser, Where is it????
Chris
66 CJ-5 on the east side. :-)
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Clint Ramsey" <cwramsey@t...> wrote:
> Where is it at? I might con the ol' lady into stopping by.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nasser [mailto:nasser88@c...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 4:50 PM
> To: Az_Vjc@Yahoogroups. Com
> Subject: [az_vjc] East Valley Jeep Show/Get-together
>
> Folks,
>
> This is just a reminder:
>
> This coming Friday evening the 24th there is a car show that we've
been
> invited to attend. It is a very casual event. It is a great
> opportunity to
> meet other club members and chat. Bring your cameras, as there are
> antique
> autos, classics, some military vehicles, etc.
>
> Last year we had a dozen members show up and we had a great time.
The
> event
> starts at 5:45ish until 8:00 pm or so, and you can come and go as
you
> please.
>
> Come and check it out,
>
> Nasser
> Ps West Valley members are invited if you don't mind the drive.
>
>
> Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76291 From: Bill - Jeeps Only <bill@j...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:30am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2
Now see, any one of those Jeeps just parked there should have jumped in to
prevent that embarassment! :-)
---------------
Bill Hooven
Jeeps Only
http://www.jeepsonly.com
A Yahoo-style directory of Jeep links
---------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
To: <Joe-CJ7@J...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>;
<arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
> Kia pulling TJ....
>
> (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com oops
> section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from sunday)
>
> Frank
> BadAzXJ@m...
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@J...>
> >To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
> >
> >Frank,
> >
> >Where can I find the pictures?
> >
> >Joe Kearney
> >Joe-CJ7@J...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ side......
> > > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> > >
> > > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too bad...... :)
> > > The nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people just
> >say
> > > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I get my
junk
> > > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few good
> >shots
> >of
> > > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from
Sunday).....
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > > >
> > > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig.
> > > >I love my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The H2
would
> >be
> > > >ok
> > > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for free...I'd
> >sell
> >it
> > > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > > >
> > > >Martin
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP magazine
doing
> >the
> > > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand due to
the
> > > >rubicons
> > > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the stupid
IFS,
> >I
> > > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > > >
> > > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday anyway. I have
> >kids
> > > >that
> > > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without worrying about
> > > >people
> > > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear. Plus I
like
> >my
> > > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound system.
> >Before
> > > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will admit that a
> >stock
> > > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and cash into
my
> >rig
> > > >to
> > > > > hang in.
> > > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be too
wide
> >but
> > > >if
> > > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just pull a rock
> >buggy
> > > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never engage the
> >locker
> > > > > anyway)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Frank
> > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A Rubicon
gets
> >31"
> > > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room, probably
> > > > > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also has a
bigger
> > > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably gets more
> > > > > >envious looks (without a single modification) than most Jeeps
that
> > > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really matters...)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except under the
> > > > > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires. That "road
> > > > > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me nauseous. What
a
> > > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a special
> > > > > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit with a lack
> >of
> > > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground up, and
the
> > > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically only
> >upgraded
> > > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and rear
> > > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some badass
> > > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper use of
AL
> > > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would have a hard
> >time
> > > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one? Ever
> >ridden
> > > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I have done
> >all
> > > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2 might be a
> >fun
> > > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s on the
H2
> > > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep? (Besides
> >the
> > > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving other
> >rigs
> > > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect. Yeah, we all
> > > > > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne, would
you?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look at an
H-2
> >in
> > > > > >TX on
> > > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards, didnt look
> >like
> > > > > >it was too
> > > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance in the
> >middle
> > > > > >but none
> > > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock ZJ
looks
> > > > > >like it has
> > > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon, I saw
one
> >at
> > > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that either
for
> > > > > >the price,
> > > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied with my
YJ
> > > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > > :-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
76292 From: BradP Kilgore <brad.kilgore@p...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:59am
Subject: RE: I'm such a loser!
Go to http://azvjc.org . Login if necessary and click on Trips to the
left. Browse through and select the trip you would like to attend, then
click on Add My Name to This List. Your name should then appear in the
Trip Attendees list.
I hope this helps.
Brad
-----Original Message-----
From: Janice Allison [mailto:jallison@a...]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:28 PM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] I'm such a loser!
Well, my Jeep just got a clean bill of health from 4 Wheelers, so I'm
ready
to hit the dirt. Problem is, I seem to have forgotten how to sign up
for
trips posted on the site. Can someone please inform me? Thanks.
Jan
Janice Allison, Business Manager
University of Arizona
Maricopa County Cooperative Extension
4341 E. Broadway Road, Phoenix AZ 85040
(602) 470-8086, ext. 362
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76293 From: Montgomery, David <dmontgomery@s...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 0:06pm
Subject: Suspension Upgrade
OK, I have pondered this for some time now and need some advice:
I am mostly a lurker but do try to see what is going on to with the list and have met many of you for lunch or BBQ or on Crown King Run etc.
When considering upgrading
From: Dana44 rear and D30 front Currently SUA with RE 4.5 Extreme Duty YJ lift on a CJ.
To: Dana60 Front and GM 14 Bolt Rear with 39.5 Swampers,
Should I:
Go SOA with 1" or 2.5" YJ leafs and shackle reversal front?
Go Coils all the way around?
Save the $ and pop for the coil overs!?
Go SOA front and Coil Rear or ¼ elliptical.
How about moving the rear axle back - no doubt the 14bolt will hit the aftermarket skid plate on the factory 20 gallon fuel tank - I expect to have to move this up into the bed (fuel cell?) anyway. Or move the front axle further forward?
Don't worry I expect a lot of fab work etc. for Steering, Anti Axle wrap etc.
So there it is what do you think?
Dave
dmontgomery@sjm.com
'83 CJ-7
350TBI Chevy
700R4
D300 (4:1)
D44 rear (ARB)
D30 front (ARB/297X Axles)
4.5" RE YJ Extreme Duty Susp.
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76294 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 0:13pm
Subject: [FS] Kargomaster Roof Rack FS
Price: 350.00
Contact: Jason 623-879-9178
I have the congo cage and Serengeti Telescoping rack for sale. These were on my 2001 TJ for approx. 5 months and was taken off when I traded the Jeep in. With the setup also comes a kit to mount 2 lights, and the mount for a HiLift. This set up cost me over $700, and was ordered from www.quadratec.com. This rack has a 500 pound capacity, and can be used with a hard top or soft top or no top. For more information check out KargoMasters web site at www.kargomaster.com
Any questions feel free to contact me at abercrombie3952@aol.com or give me a call at 623-879-9178
Jason Warren
76295 From: Darren Richards <darren.richards@m...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 0:14pm
Subject: Re: Today's Humor: Jeep sking
I've never tried that, but when the snow gets too deep here in Phoenix I
slap a set of these on my Jeep:
http://www.mattracks.com
DesertJeep wrote:
> Has any one with a leaf sprung Jeep removed their axles to go skiing. I
> was wondering what the right lift spring would be optimal and how you
> worked out the steering?
>
> Joey K
> 93YJ - LMAO
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
76296 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 0:24pm
Subject: [FS] 1970 Kaiser CJ5 with military style trailer
Price: $4,500.00
Contact: a071567@allstate.com or (928)776-0976 Ask for Sue
Original V6 3sp. Original steel hard top, air conditioning(!). All very straight, clean.
Jack Mattox
76297 From: Rob Williams <g_rob_williams@y...> <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 0:24pm
Subject: Re: 15x10 589s and stuff still for sale
Sorry, the link didn't work.... try this...
http://www.wingnutskates.com/forsale.htm
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Williams <g_rob_williams@y...>"
<g_rob_williams@y...> wrote:
> I still have my 5 15x10 589s 5 on 4.5 I'm selling for $250 I have
> pics of it on my website and I also have a lot of other misc stuff
I
> want to get rid of on there like Chevy brushguard, 75 Gallon Salt
> tank, Ford Explorer/Ranger spare...
> http://www.wingnutskates.com/forsale -Rob
76298 From: Rob Williams <g_rob_williams@y...> <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 0:27pm
Subject: Re: Today's Humor: Jeep sking
I saw that Superduty Truck at SEMA... after the last day of the show
when we were all getting our trucks and stuff out of the building we
saw that guy tearing down the road with the trax still on it.... if
you thought boggers were loud you aint heard nothin! LOL -Rob
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, Darren Richards
<darren.richards@m...> wrote:
> I've never tried that, but when the snow gets too deep here in
Phoenix I
> slap a set of these on my Jeep:
>
> http://www.mattracks.com
>
>
> DesertJeep wrote:
>
> > Has any one with a leaf sprung Jeep removed their axles to go
skiing. I
> > was wondering what the right lift spring would be optimal and
how you
> > worked out the steering?
> >
> > Joey K
> > 93YJ - LMAO
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
76299 From: Trujillo, Jeff <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 0:27pm
Subject: RE: Today's Humor: Jeep sking
That is sweet. I just found my next project...of course I will have to move
to where the snow is LOL
Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice:(480)346-6249
Fax:(480)346-6813
-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Richards [mailto:darren.richards@m...]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 1:14 PM
To: joey@d...
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Today's Humor: Jeep sking
I've never tried that, but when the snow gets too deep here in Phoenix I
slap a set of these on my Jeep:
http://www.mattracks.com
DesertJeep wrote:
> Has any one with a leaf sprung Jeep removed their axles to go skiing. I
> was wondering what the right lift spring would be optimal and how you
> worked out the steering?
>
> Joey K
> 93YJ - LMAO
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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76300 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 0:58pm
Subject: [FS] 98 Chevy Silverado $12,200
Price: $12,200
Contact: Rick Klarer (602) 978-8695
1998 silver chevy silverado, v-6, 2wd, towpackage, 60k or so. please call for more info this is my parents truck so I dont know all of the details.
Brandon Carnicle
76301 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 0:59pm
Subject: [FS] BUMPER AND TIRE CARRIER FOR CJ/YJ
Price: $350 firm
Contact: KEITH-(602)300-8051 or BMXCOW222@YAHOO.COM
Bumper and tire carrier in excellent condition. Will fit any cj or yj, but is currently a direct bolt on for a cj. Allows you to get the weight of that heavy spare off your body and onto the frame. Also includes some heavy duty mounting brackets. Pictures are now available.
Keith Bowcut