blooddrive
01-07-2004, 09:49 PM
76252-76276
76252 From: Daver <daver@i...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:45am
Subject: Re: RE: Table Mesa Cleanup wheeling?
P4W normally hands out fliers at the local shooting ranges (i.e. Ben Avery and whatnot.)
John's comment about those not being the ones causing the problem though is likely correct. A lot of the mess isn't even shooting, it is just general dumping. Last time we were out there the boy-child couldn't understand "why someone would hate a refrige
rator so much to shoot it so many times."
======= At 2003-01-23, 08:53:00 DesertJeep wrote: =======
>Do you know of any efforts made to inform the target shooting community
>of this clean up? What kind of "points" are we getting? We clean up the
>junk made by a totally different recreation and we keep the trails we
>wheel open? I feel our efforts would be better recognized if we found a
>way to educate the real responsible parties and have them clean up there
>own brethren's trash.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
76253 From: Linda <minihummer@w...> <minihummer@w...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:45am
Subject: Re: Jamboree 2003
Neil,
You need to get people to buy into the association through
memberships if you want the ASA4WDC to change. That isn't going to
happen by posting complaints about its leadership. Just remember it's
the only state-wide organized 4x4 association we have.
Linda
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, <gotrox@c...> wrote:
> Linda, I would have to agree with Sandee, the VJC has done alot for
the wheeling community. It is whats driving ASA4WDC to re-evaluate
there public relations with the community. Many of the VJC don't see
what ASA is doing when it comes to land issues or what the
organization is about. It is time that people get involved with the
ASA and fix it so that there is no mistaking what it's benefits are.
I see a major leadership change for ASA in the future. Information
lead to knowledge, if ASA or and individual wants to post info on
this board regarding Jamboree or any other event, why not?
>
> Neal Han****
> Arizona Rock Crawlers
> ASA4WDC Delegate
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "Sandee McCullen" <mccullen@c...>
> Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:00 am
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: 2003 Jamboree
>
>
> Linda,
> Quite frankly Jamboree would have fallen flat on it's A** if it
wasn't for
> VJC this past year!!!! Want to lay bets as to how many
ASA4WDC "club"
> members show to the cleanup on Saturday vs how many VJC!!!
>
> When it comes to "letters", "support", "work", "charity" or simply
respect
> we can be guaranteed response from VJC..... a "H" more than ASA4WDC.
> You're right.......... a majority of them do not want the
restrictions of
> incorporating, dues, by-laws etc but that does not put them outside
the
> circle. Many of them ARE changing........... I'll lay bets MORE VJC
guys
> have State Land Permits than do the ASA4WDC Club Members!
>
> What's with your attitude with VJC?
>
> Sandee
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Linda <minihummer@w...>
> > [mailto:minihummer@w...]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 7:09 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: 2003 Jamboree
> >
> >
> > Why in the heck would a bunch of 4-wheelers who don't care to be a
> > part of organized 4-wheeling care about when the ASA4WDC Jamboree
is
> > being held? I doubt the more than 10% of the folks in the AZVJC
are
> > memebers of ASA4WDC member clubs or belong as individual members
to
> > the ASA4WDC or the UFWDA -- because it costs too much. There is no
> > point in posting ASA4WDC business on this forum.
> >
> > Linda
76254 From: Scott Rafferty <like2drivemycj5@y...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:51am
Subject: funky camber
the 35''s on my 73'cj-5 are leaning outward \ / this has been puzzling me for a while. there is very little play in the hub when the wheel is off the ground, probably from the wheel bearings. and the lower ball joints were replaced 6 months ago. it is a dana 30 axle. does any body have any sugestions as to what is wrong, or how to fix/adjust it?
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76255 From: Martin Ward <martinida@c...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:56am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2
With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig.
I love my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The H2 would be ok
to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for free...I'd sell it
and keep my F250 for that purpose.
Martin
----- Original Message -----
From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
> The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP magazine doing the
> review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand due to the
rubicons
> low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the stupid IFS, I
> wouldnt turn it down either........
>
> But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday anyway. I have kids
that
> love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without worrying about people
> jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear. Plus I like my
> music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound system. Before
> everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will admit that a stock
> cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and cash into my rig to
> hang in.
> (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be too wide but if
> you have that kind of cash laying around you can just pull a rock buggy
> behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never engage the locker
> anyway)
>
>
> Preparing flame retarding suit..........
>
>
> Frank
> BadAzXJ@m...
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> >
> > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A Rubicon gets 31"
> >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room, probably
> >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also has a bigger
> >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably gets more
> >envious looks (without a single modification) than most Jeeps that
> >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really matters...)
> >
> > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except under the
> >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires. That "road
> >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me nauseous. What a
> >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a special
> >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit with a lack of
> >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground up, and the
> >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically only upgraded
> >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and rear
> >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some badass
> >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper use of AL
> >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> >
> > If I could choose either one for free, I would have a hard time
> >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one? Ever ridden
> >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I have done all
> >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2 might be a fun
> >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s on the H2
> >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep? (Besides the
> >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving other rigs
> >that are worthy of their intended use some respect. Yeah, we all
> >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne, would you?
> >
> > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> >
> >
> >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look at an H-2 in
> >TX on
> > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards, didnt look like
> >it was too
> > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance in the middle
> >but none
> > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock ZJ looks
> >like it has
> > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon, I saw one at
> >4Wheelers
> > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that either for
> >the price,
> > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied with my YJ
> >and CJ.
> > > :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
76256 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:59am
Subject: Re: Re: super 35, gears & locker?
Does the Waggy pitman arm have any drop to it? If not, you'll need
to check that you have the clearance for it. On my YJ, a straight
pitman arm would contact the sway bar. I know the TJ sway bar
is routed differently but I don't know if the TJ has anything else in
the way.
I run Moser 30-spline alloy shafts in my rear 44 and have never had
a problem with them. 31-spline alloys should work well for you. In
general, I'm not fond of redrilling axle shafts. That's why I replaced
my rear shafts when I changed bolt patterns.
I'm not sure you can convert from a 5-on-4.5" to a 6-on-5.5" pattern
because a couple of the holes come real close to each other and there
might not be enough material around the lugs. I think you'd better check
into that before you get your mind set on that solution. I know this is
the case because I redrilled my rear brake drums myself in order to
change from 5-on-4.5" to 5-on-5.5". I can show you one of my drums
if you want to see how the holes line up.
As for the width, I really don't think you'll need the rear spacers or new
wheels. If your rear is within a couple inches of your front, you won't
hardly notice it. Also, it's my understanding that you want the rear to
be narrower than the front for better tracking down the road. So you'd
be in good shape. I'd try things with your current wheels and without
spacers and see how it is. I suspect it will be fine. You can always
do the wheels and/or spacers later on.
-Roger
Scott Kruize wrote:
> Roger,
>
> My pitman arm is drilled for the ORF steering so I need to replace it. I
> was thinking about using a Waggy pitman arm because it has a lot more
> metal around the hole. I won't know if it needs to be dropped or not
> until I get it in my garage on Saturday and take some measurements. When
> I weld on the axle brackets I will have to adjust the angle of my
> trackbar to run parallel to the higher steering.
>
> I called Dutchman today. They say the 8.8 shafts cannot be redrilled
> because the material around the flange is weak. A set of 31 spline alloy
> shafts in 6x5.5" pattern would be $240 a pair with studs installed. So
> it's an improvement in strength too. They will drill the rotors at the
> same time and make sure they match up. Drilling the rotors costs $35 a
> pair. They assured me that they have done this before and there is
> plenty of room inside the hat of the rotor for the shaft.
>
> Or I can get some wheel adaptors to go to 6x5.5" pattern. Cost is
> $99-125 a pair depending on the source. I already have a spare set of
> shafts so this might make more sense. Consider these measurements:
>
> Stock TJ D30 and D35: 60.00"
> Ford 8.8: 59.25"
>
> Wagoneer front 44: 61.50"
> Ford 8.8 with 6on5.5 adaptors 61.25"
>
> I'm currently running 15x10's with 3.75" backspacing. If I get wheels
> that have 4.5" backspacing I will move each side in 3/4" which
> ultimately puts my width sidewall to sidewall up front at the same width
> as I currently am. The rear will be 1/4" narrower than the front, but
> 1/2" wider than it is now. So the adapters start to look good.
> Replacement parts are cheaper to acquire if needed. I can still install
> off the shelf alloy shafts later on.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Scott K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Tomas [mailto:tomasr@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 9:51 AM
> To: Scott Kruize
> Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: super 35, gears & locker?
>
> Are you having the shafts and rotors redrilled or just the rotors? If
> you're ordering new shafts, might you also need to consider the center
> holes in the rotors (assuming they center on the end of the shaft
> instead of the lugs)?
>
> I agree the low pinion isn't that much of an issue because most of the
> time you place your front tires on the high points and the pinion/shaft
> don't touch anything - even with the low pinion. I've only hit my front
> shaft on the rocks once and that was when I took a bad line and then
> slid sideways.
>
> As for the steering, I kept the Waggy tie rod and drag link. You're
> right that the Waggy tie rod and drag link are significantly more beefy
> than both the YJ and TJ links. And the length was correct.
>
> Note that since the Waggy tie rod is on top of the knuckle arms, I had
> to remove my drop pitman arm and go back to my stock pitman arm. I view
> this as a good thing. You might to do the same although you have more
> lift than me so it's not clear.
>
> You will also have to get your pitman arm reamed out to accept the Waggy
> drag link end as it is bigger than your stock drag link end. OR Fab did
> mine but most fab shops can probably do this. The hole has a conical
> shape which means you can't just use a normal drill bit to do it.
>
> Let me know if you have any other questions.
>
> -Roger
>
> Scott Kruize wrote:
>
> > Roger,
> >
> > I am picking up a Waggy 44 front end on Saturday morning. I will have
> > the 8.8 redrilled to match the front 6 on 5.5 pattern like you did
> > with your D44 rear end. I ultimately decided that hi pinion wasn't a
> > big issue. Look at this pic of my TJ with the low pinion 30 and you
> > will see why.
> >
> > I am also getting the Waggy steering so I'll just run the knuckle over
>
> > setup. That Waggy tierod and draglink look damn beefy and should raise
>
> > my steering up 3-4 inches compared to my ORF steering. Supposedly the
> > length works fine with the TJs and Yjs. Which steering did you use on
> > yours?
> >
> > Scott K
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...> [mailto:tomasr@a...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:04 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: super 35, gears & locker?
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...> wrote:
> > > <snip>
> > > Regarding cost of switching the rear bolt pattern consider this: Is
> > it
> > > cheaper to convert pattern or try to add disk brakes to the 35? It's
>
> > > pretty much a wash here unless you don't mind the drum brakes.
> > > <snip>
> >
> > Horshe****! Er... I mean, agreed! ;-)
> >
> > I wasn't endorsing the Super 35 kit over the 8.8 swap. (Sorry if it
> > came across that way.) Instead, I was merely trying to point out a
> > possible issue that a lot of people might not think about until long
> > after the 8.8 swap was done and it was time for a front axle swap.
> >
> > -Roger
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > Name: IMG_3841.jpg
> > IMG_3841.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
> > Encoding: base64
> > Download Status: Not downloaded with message
76257 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:04am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2
I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ side......
Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too bad...... :)
The nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people just say
"what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I get my junk
stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few good shots of
the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from Sunday).....
Frank
BadAzXJ@m...
>From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
>
>With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig.
>I love my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The H2 would be
>ok
>to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for free...I'd sell it
>and keep my F250 for that purpose.
>
>Martin
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> >
> > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP magazine doing the
> > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand due to the
>rubicons
> > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the stupid IFS, I
> > wouldnt turn it down either........
> >
> > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday anyway. I have kids
>that
> > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without worrying about
>people
> > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear. Plus I like my
> > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound system. Before
> > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will admit that a stock
> > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and cash into my rig
>to
> > hang in.
> > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be too wide but
>if
> > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just pull a rock buggy
> > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never engage the locker
> > anyway)
> >
> >
> > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> >
> >
> > Frank
> > BadAzXJ@m...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > >
> > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A Rubicon gets 31"
> > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room, probably
> > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also has a bigger
> > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably gets more
> > >envious looks (without a single modification) than most Jeeps that
> > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really matters...)
> > >
> > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except under the
> > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires. That "road
> > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me nauseous. What a
> > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a special
> > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit with a lack of
> > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground up, and the
> > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically only upgraded
> > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and rear
> > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some badass
> > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper use of AL
> > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > >
> > > If I could choose either one for free, I would have a hard time
> > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one? Ever ridden
> > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I have done all
> > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2 might be a fun
> > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s on the H2
> > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep? (Besides the
> > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving other rigs
> > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect. Yeah, we all
> > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne, would you?
> > >
> > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > >
> > >
> > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look at an H-2 in
> > >TX on
> > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards, didnt look like
> > >it was too
> > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance in the middle
> > >but none
> > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock ZJ looks
> > >like it has
> > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon, I saw one at
> > >4Wheelers
> > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that either for
> > >the price,
> > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied with my YJ
> > >and CJ.
> > > > :-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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76258 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:02am
Subject: RE: Re: super 35, gears & locker?
Roger,
You are right about the width. Its actually preferable to have the front
2" wider than the rear. The rear will track better on the trail and on
the street. I already had that info filed away in my head, thanks for
helping me recover it. :D
Like I said earlier I'm sold on the new alloys.
Thanks!
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Tomas [mailto:tomasr@a...]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:00 AM
To: Scott Kruize
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: super 35, gears & locker?
Does the Waggy pitman arm have any drop to it? If not, you'll need to
check that you have the clearance for it. On my YJ, a straight pitman
arm would contact the sway bar. I know the TJ sway bar is routed
differently but I don't know if the TJ has anything else in the way.
I run Moser 30-spline alloy shafts in my rear 44 and have never had a
problem with them. 31-spline alloys should work well for you. In
general, I'm not fond of redrilling axle shafts. That's why I replaced
my rear shafts when I changed bolt patterns.
I'm not sure you can convert from a 5-on-4.5" to a 6-on-5.5" pattern
because a couple of the holes come real close to each other and there
might not be enough material around the lugs. I think you'd better
check into that before you get your mind set on that solution. I know
this is the case because I redrilled my rear brake drums myself in order
to change from 5-on-4.5" to 5-on-5.5". I can show you one of my drums
if you want to see how the holes line up.
As for the width, I really don't think you'll need the rear spacers or
new wheels. If your rear is within a couple inches of your front, you
won't hardly notice it. Also, it's my understanding that you want the
rear to be narrower than the front for better tracking down the road.
So you'd be in good shape. I'd try things with your current wheels and
without spacers and see how it is. I suspect it will be fine. You can
always do the wheels and/or spacers later on.
-Roger
Scott Kruize wrote:
> Roger,
>
> My pitman arm is drilled for the ORF steering so I need to replace it.
> I was thinking about using a Waggy pitman arm because it has a lot
> more metal around the hole. I won't know if it needs to be dropped or
> not until I get it in my garage on Saturday and take some
> measurements. When I weld on the axle brackets I will have to adjust
> the angle of my trackbar to run parallel to the higher steering.
>
> I called Dutchman today. They say the 8.8 shafts cannot be redrilled
> because the material around the flange is weak. A set of 31 spline
> alloy shafts in 6x5.5" pattern would be $240 a pair with studs
> installed. So it's an improvement in strength too. They will drill the
> rotors at the same time and make sure they match up. Drilling the
> rotors costs $35 a pair. They assured me that they have done this
> before and there is plenty of room inside the hat of the rotor for the
> shaft.
>
> Or I can get some wheel adaptors to go to 6x5.5" pattern. Cost is
> $99-125 a pair depending on the source. I already have a spare set of
> shafts so this might make more sense. Consider these measurements:
>
> Stock TJ D30 and D35: 60.00"
> Ford 8.8: 59.25"
>
> Wagoneer front 44: 61.50"
> Ford 8.8 with 6on5.5 adaptors 61.25"
>
> I'm currently running 15x10's with 3.75" backspacing. If I get wheels
> that have 4.5" backspacing I will move each side in 3/4" which
> ultimately puts my width sidewall to sidewall up front at the same
> width as I currently am. The rear will be 1/4" narrower than the
> front, but 1/2" wider than it is now. So the adapters start to look
> good. Replacement parts are cheaper to acquire if needed. I can still
> install off the shelf alloy shafts later on.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Scott K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Tomas [mailto:tomasr@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 9:51 AM
> To: Scott Kruize
> Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: super 35, gears & locker?
>
> Are you having the shafts and rotors redrilled or just the rotors? If
> you're ordering new shafts, might you also need to consider the center
> holes in the rotors (assuming they center on the end of the shaft
> instead of the lugs)?
>
> I agree the low pinion isn't that much of an issue because most of the
> time you place your front tires on the high points and the
> pinion/shaft don't touch anything - even with the low pinion. I've
> only hit my front shaft on the rocks once and that was when I took a
> bad line and then slid sideways.
>
> As for the steering, I kept the Waggy tie rod and drag link. You're
> right that the Waggy tie rod and drag link are significantly more
> beefy than both the YJ and TJ links. And the length was correct.
>
> Note that since the Waggy tie rod is on top of the knuckle arms, I had
> to remove my drop pitman arm and go back to my stock pitman arm. I
> view this as a good thing. You might to do the same although you have
> more lift than me so it's not clear.
>
> You will also have to get your pitman arm reamed out to accept the
> Waggy drag link end as it is bigger than your stock drag link end. OR
> Fab did mine but most fab shops can probably do this. The hole has a
> conical shape which means you can't just use a normal drill bit to do
> it.
>
> Let me know if you have any other questions.
>
> -Roger
>
> Scott Kruize wrote:
>
> > Roger,
> >
> > I am picking up a Waggy 44 front end on Saturday morning. I will
> > have the 8.8 redrilled to match the front 6 on 5.5 pattern like you
> > did with your D44 rear end. I ultimately decided that hi pinion
> > wasn't a big issue. Look at this pic of my TJ with the low pinion 30
> > and you will see why.
> >
> > I am also getting the Waggy steering so I'll just run the knuckle
> > over
>
> > setup. That Waggy tierod and draglink look damn beefy and should
> > raise
>
> > my steering up 3-4 inches compared to my ORF steering. Supposedly
> > the length works fine with the TJs and Yjs. Which steering did you
> > use on yours?
> >
> > Scott K
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...> [mailto:tomasr@a...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:04 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: super 35, gears & locker?
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...> wrote:
> > > <snip>
> > > Regarding cost of switching the rear bolt pattern consider this:
> > > Is
> > it
> > > cheaper to convert pattern or try to add disk brakes to the 35?
> > > It's
>
> > > pretty much a wash here unless you don't mind the drum brakes.
> > > <snip>
> >
> > Horshe****! Er... I mean, agreed! ;-)
> >
> > I wasn't endorsing the Super 35 kit over the 8.8 swap. (Sorry if it
> > came across that way.) Instead, I was merely trying to point out a
> > possible issue that a lot of people might not think about until long
> > after the 8.8 swap was done and it was time for a front axle swap.
> >
> > -Roger
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > Name: IMG_3841.jpg
> > IMG_3841.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
> > Encoding: base64
> > Download Status: Not downloaded with message
76259 From: Martin Ward <martinida@c...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:11am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2
Kia pulling TJ. That is so wrong it is not even possible to express my
disgust. I would have committed ritual suicide next to my TJ before I let
that happen.
Martin
----- Original Message -----
From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ side......
> Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
>
> We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too bad...... :)
> The nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people just say
> "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I get my junk
> stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few good shots
of
> the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from Sunday).....
>
> Frank
> BadAzXJ@m...
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> >
> >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig.
> >I love my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The H2 would be
> >ok
> >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for free...I'd sell
it
> >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> >
> >Martin
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > >
> > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP magazine doing
the
> > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand due to the
> >rubicons
> > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the stupid IFS, I
> > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > >
> > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday anyway. I have kids
> >that
> > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without worrying about
> >people
> > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear. Plus I like
my
> > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound system.
Before
> > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will admit that a
stock
> > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and cash into my
rig
> >to
> > > hang in.
> > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be too wide
but
> >if
> > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just pull a rock
buggy
> > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never engage the
locker
> > > anyway)
> > >
> > >
> > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > >
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > >
> > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A Rubicon gets
31"
> > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room, probably
> > > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also has a bigger
> > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably gets more
> > > >envious looks (without a single modification) than most Jeeps that
> > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really matters...)
> > > >
> > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except under the
> > > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires. That "road
> > > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me nauseous. What a
> > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a special
> > > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit with a lack of
> > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground up, and the
> > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically only upgraded
> > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and rear
> > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some badass
> > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper use of AL
> > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > >
> > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would have a hard time
> > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one? Ever ridden
> > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I have done all
> > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2 might be a fun
> > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s on the H2
> > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep? (Besides the
> > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving other rigs
> > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect. Yeah, we all
> > > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne, would you?
> > > >
> > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look at an H-2
in
> > > >TX on
> > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards, didnt look like
> > > >it was too
> > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance in the
middle
> > > >but none
> > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock ZJ looks
> > > >like it has
> > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon, I saw one
at
> > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that either for
> > > >the price,
> > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied with my YJ
> > > >and CJ.
> > > > > :-)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
76260 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:00am
Subject: RE: Re: Jamboree 2003
Linda,
The only "memberships" available to AZVJC members at this time are
individual.......... what exactly does this do? They get nothing for this
membership. It is simply a "supporting membership". They have no vote, no
permits, no insurance....... what Neal is refering to re "fix the ASA" or
"re-evaluate PR with the community" is simply stating the ASA4WDC needs to
be progressive in "growing with the times". We MUST find a way to
incorporate groups like VJC.......... I believe there are small groups
forming from the AZVJC that are considering, or doing, incorporations at
this time just so they can truly be involved and have a vote in what's
happening within this organization now, but this plan will not work in the
future.
Personally I don't think we truly need EACH club to be incorporated and I'm
going to follow up on this theory......... Each department within a
corporation doesn't need to incorporate. If a group wishes to "join"
ASA4WDC they should be able to join under the ASA4WDC Incorporation. Yes,
they will still have to pay the yearly dues and that is one of the issues
many are against but IF they receive something for their $18.00 maybe
they'll change their thoughts on that............ the ASA4WDC by-laws could
easily cover non-incorporated groups. They could read just like Az Lo
Rangers........ no requirements other than owning a 4x4 and paying yearly
dues. ????
You have to admit that the ASA4WDC club members have NOT been active or
vocal in any land use/access issues until very recently!!!! We wouldn't be
where we are in negotiations with the Tucson office if it wasn't for
AZVJC!!!!
Re: "posting complaints about its leadership"............. if there are
serious enough complaints don't you feel this is a message to encourage
CHANGE??? When there's a problem within your office is it left to function
this way?.... I don't think so. The ASA4WDC has a problem................
it's being worked on. Simple as that. It's 2003, not 1966..........
CHANGE will come.
Sandee
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Linda <minihummer@w...>
> [mailto:minihummer@w...]
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:45 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Jamboree 2003
>
>
> Neil,
>
> You need to get people to buy into the association through
> memberships if you want the ASA4WDC to change. That isn't going to
> happen by posting complaints about its leadership. Just remember it's
> the only state-wide organized 4x4 association we have.
>
> Linda
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, <gotrox@c...> wrote:
> > Linda, I would have to agree with Sandee, the VJC has done alot for
> the wheeling community. It is whats driving ASA4WDC to re-evaluate
> there public relations with the community. Many of the VJC don't see
> what ASA is doing when it comes to land issues or what the
> organization is about. It is time that people get involved with the
> ASA and fix it so that there is no mistaking what it's benefits are.
> I see a major leadership change for ASA in the future. Information
> lead to knowledge, if ASA or and individual wants to post info on
> this board regarding Jamboree or any other event, why not?
> >
> > Neal Han****
> > Arizona Rock Crawlers
> > ASA4WDC Delegate
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: "Sandee McCullen" <mccullen@c...>
> > Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:00 am
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: 2003 Jamboree
> >
> >
> > Linda,
> > Quite frankly Jamboree would have fallen flat on it's A** if it
> wasn't for
> > VJC this past year!!!! Want to lay bets as to how many
> ASA4WDC "club"
> > members show to the cleanup on Saturday vs how many VJC!!!
> >
> > When it comes to "letters", "support", "work", "charity" or simply
> respect
> > we can be guaranteed response from VJC..... a "H" more than ASA4WDC.
> > You're right.......... a majority of them do not want the
> restrictions of
> > incorporating, dues, by-laws etc but that does not put them outside
> the
> > circle. Many of them ARE changing........... I'll lay bets MORE VJC
> guys
> > have State Land Permits than do the ASA4WDC Club Members!
> >
> > What's with your attitude with VJC?
> >
> > Sandee
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Linda <minihummer@w...>
> > > [mailto:minihummer@w...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 7:09 AM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: 2003 Jamboree
> > >
> > >
> > > Why in the heck would a bunch of 4-wheelers who don't care to be a
> > > part of organized 4-wheeling care about when the ASA4WDC Jamboree
> is
> > > being held? I doubt the more than 10% of the folks in the AZVJC
> are
> > > memebers of ASA4WDC member clubs or belong as individual members
> to
> > > the ASA4WDC or the UFWDA -- because it costs too much. There is no
> > > point in posting ASA4WDC business on this forum.
> > >
> > > Linda
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
76261 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:13am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2
now thats funny. I feel the same way. Put a stake in the ground and mark the
jeep dead.
>From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>,"BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:11:26 -0700
>
>Kia pulling TJ. That is so wrong it is not even possible to express my
>disgust. I would have committed ritual suicide next to my TJ before I let
>that happen.
>
>Martin
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ side......
> > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> >
> > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too bad...... :)
> > The nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people just
>say
> > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I get my junk
> > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few good
>shots
>of
> > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from Sunday).....
> >
> > Frank
> > BadAzXJ@m...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > >
> > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig.
> > >I love my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The H2 would
>be
> > >ok
> > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for free...I'd
>sell
>it
> > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > >
> > >Martin
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP magazine doing
>the
> > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand due to the
> > >rubicons
> > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the stupid IFS,
>I
> > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > >
> > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday anyway. I have
>kids
> > >that
> > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without worrying about
> > >people
> > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear. Plus I like
>my
> > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound system.
>Before
> > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will admit that a
>stock
> > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and cash into my
>rig
> > >to
> > > > hang in.
> > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be too wide
>but
> > >if
> > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just pull a rock
>buggy
> > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never engage the
>locker
> > > > anyway)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A Rubicon gets
>31"
> > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room, probably
> > > > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also has a bigger
> > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably gets more
> > > > >envious looks (without a single modification) than most Jeeps that
> > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really matters...)
> > > > >
> > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except under the
> > > > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires. That "road
> > > > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me nauseous. What a
> > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a special
> > > > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit with a lack
>of
> > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground up, and the
> > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically only
>upgraded
> > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and rear
> > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some badass
> > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper use of AL
> > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > > >
> > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would have a hard
>time
> > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one? Ever
>ridden
> > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I have done
>all
> > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2 might be a
>fun
> > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s on the H2
> > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep? (Besides
>the
> > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving other
>rigs
> > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect. Yeah, we all
> > > > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne, would you?
> > > > >
> > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look at an H-2
>in
> > > > >TX on
> > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards, didnt look
>like
> > > > >it was too
> > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance in the
>middle
> > > > >but none
> > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock ZJ looks
> > > > >like it has
> > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon, I saw one
>at
> > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that either for
> > > > >the price,
> > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied with my YJ
> > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > :-)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________ _______________
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
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76262 From: Rob Williams <g_rob_williams@y...> <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:17am
Subject: Re: [OT]You Think A Gallon Of Gas Is Expensive?
I noticed "Milk" has been taken out since the last time this was
posted.... I thought that was funny because right after it was
posted milk was 1.35 a gallon and gas was up to 1.40! LOL I'm sure
glad my Jeep doesnt run off Scope though... then what would I gargle
with? GAS??? I do have to argue with water though.... I WISH my Jeep
ran off water! 25 cents a gallon at Water and Ice!! -Rob
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "CoyotEddie" <coyoteddie@e...> wrote:
>
> You Think A Gallon Of Gas Is Expensive? This puts things in
perspective...
>
> Diet Snapple 16 oz $1.29 .... $10.32 per gallon
> Lipton Ice Tea 16 oz $1.19 ...$ 9.52 per gallon
> Gatorade 20 oz $1.59 ........ $10.17 per gallon
> Ocean Spray 16 oz $1.25 ....$10 .00 per gallon
> Brake Fluid 12 oz $3.15 ...... $33.60 per gallon
> Vick's Nyquil 6 oz $8.35... $178.13 per gallon
> Pepto Bismol 4 oz $3.85 .... $123.20 per gallon
> Whiteout 7 oz $1.39 .......... $25.42 per gallon
> Scope 1.5 oz $0.99.......$84.48 per gallon
>
> and the REAL KICKER.... Evian water 9 oz for $1.49, $21.19 per
gallon ...
> $21.19 FOR WATER! ....and the buyers don't even know the source.
>
> So, the next time you're at the pump, be glad your car doesn't run
on water, Scope,
> or Whiteout, or Heaven forbid, PEPTO BISMOL or NYQUIL!!
>
> Just a little humor to help ease the pain of your next trip to the
pump!
76263 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:22am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2
Kia pulling TJ....
(if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com oops
section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from sunday)
Frank
BadAzXJ@msn.com
>From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@JRKearney.com>
>To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@msn.com>
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
>
>Frank,
>
>Where can I find the pictures?
>
>Joe Kearney
>Joe-CJ7@JRKearney.com
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@msn.com>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ side......
> > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> >
> > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too bad...... :)
> > The nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people just
>say
> > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I get my junk
> > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few good
>shots
>of
> > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from Sunday).....
> >
> > Frank
> > BadAzXJ@msn.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@cox.net>
> > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > >
> > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig.
> > >I love my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The H2 would
>be
> > >ok
> > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for free...I'd
>sell
>it
> > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > >
> > >Martin
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@msn.com>
> > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP magazine doing
>the
> > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand due to the
> > >rubicons
> > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the stupid IFS,
>I
> > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > >
> > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday anyway. I have
>kids
> > >that
> > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without worrying about
> > >people
> > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear. Plus I like
>my
> > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound system.
>Before
> > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will admit that a
>stock
> > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and cash into my
>rig
> > >to
> > > > hang in.
> > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be too wide
>but
> > >if
> > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just pull a rock
>buggy
> > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never engage the
>locker
> > > > anyway)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > > BadAzXJ@msn.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@yahoo.com>" <jeepindog@yahoo.com>
> > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A Rubicon gets
>31"
> > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room, probably
> > > > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also has a bigger
> > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably gets more
> > > > >envious looks (without a single modification) than most Jeeps that
> > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really matters...)
> > > > >
> > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except under the
> > > > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires. That "road
> > > > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me nauseous. What a
> > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a special
> > > > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit with a lack
>of
> > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground up, and the
> > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically only
>upgraded
> > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and rear
> > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some badass
> > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper use of AL
> > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > > >
> > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would have a hard
>time
> > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one? Ever
>ridden
> > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I have done
>all
> > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2 might be a
>fun
> > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s on the H2
> > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep? (Besides
>the
> > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving other
>rigs
> > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect. Yeah, we all
> > > > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne, would you?
> > > > >
> > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look at an H-2
>in
> > > > >TX on
> > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards, didnt look
>like
> > > > >it was too
> > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance in the
>middle
> > > > >but none
> > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock ZJ looks
> > > > >like it has
> > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon, I saw one
>at
> > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that either for
> > > > >the price,
> > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied with my YJ
> > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > :-)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________ _______________
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Attachment: (image/pjpeg) kiamud.jpg [not stored]
76264 From: robert_j_rogers2 <robert.rogers@h...> <robert.rogers@h...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:26am
Subject: Re: 2003 Jamboree
B*))S&!^ I went to it last year and will again this year, IF it is
posted. It seems to me that I jeard about it by someones post not
from the ASA4WDC, and why should someone named minihummer be listened
to anyway.
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Linda <minihummer@w...>"
<minihummer@w...> wrote:
> Why in the heck would a bunch of 4-wheelers who don't care to be a
> part of organized 4-wheeling care about when the ASA4WDC Jamboree
is
> being held? I doubt the more than 10% of the folks in the AZVJC are
> memebers of ASA4WDC member clubs or belong as individual members to
> the ASA4WDC or the UFWDA -- because it costs too much. There is no
> point in posting ASA4WDC business on this forum.
>
76265 From: Trujillo, Jeff <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:09am
Subject: RE: [arizonaXJ] Re: Bad news for us.. better get thoes kill switc hes......
Yea Bea,
Let us know when you want to do some wrenching (not wenching LOL) parties on
your XJ. We'd be glad to help.
Frank, I was thinking of posting a Jeep run in a couple of weeks for the
Kids in their JEEPS. Something the kids can really enjoy and give a chance
to teach the kids some things instead of just having them ride along. We
would have to have a good enough place with some slight hills and so forth.
What do you think? Anybody else with some suggestions?
Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice:(480)346-6249
Fax:(480)346-6813
-----Original Message-----
From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:58 AM
To: arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [arizonaXJ] Re: Bad news for us.. better get thoes kill
switches......
Bea,
We need to get your jeep into shape quick so you can make an appearance on a
run...There is talk that you do not exist and are just another one of
Flexy's multiple personalities (IE: joline, joe, flexy, etc).
Just kidding LOL.... (or am I?)
Frank
BadAzXJ@m...
>From: "bgalsim <bgalsim@y...>" <bgalsim@y...>
>Reply-To: arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
>To: arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [arizonaXJ] Re: Bad news for us.. better get thoes kill
>switches......
>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 14:59:45 -0000
>
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76266 From: Rob Williams <g_rob_williams@y...> <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:29am
Subject: Re: gonna get a new soft top!!!
Buy a BESTOP! everything else is crap! LOL As for the sail cloth
top... it is supposed to be better quality and a lot more quiet. If
you got the extra bucks to spend I'd get it... but the replace a top
is a pretty good top if you cant afford the golden sail cloth! -Rob
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "onebdjeep" <onebdjeep@c...> wrote:
> k... i have convinced my wife that my baby needs a new top. i
don't know how but i did. (a little rum with her cereal goes a long
way!!!) now for the best place (quality and deal)? any one have any
suggestions? what the hell is this sail cloth stuff? is it made out
of gold?
>
> any info would be great! i will be ready to purchase after feb 15.
gettin damn cold in the morning!
>
> thx!
>
>
> Sean Speer
> OneBdJeep (someday!!)
> '97 TJ with killer mods to come!!!
> (umm... will drink beer for Jeep parts!!!)
76267 From: Clint Ramsey <cwramsey@t...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:12am
Subject: RE: Re: Rubicon VS H2
I almost vomited when I opened that picture
Clint
-----Original Message-----
From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
To: Joe-CJ7@J...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
Kia pulling TJ....
(if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com oops
section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
sunday)
Frank
BadAzXJ@m...
>From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@J...>
>To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
>
>Frank,
>
>Where can I find the pictures?
>
>Joe Kearney
>Joe-CJ7@J...
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ side......
> > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> >
> > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too bad...... :)
> > The nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people
just
>say
> > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I get my
junk
> > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few good
>shots
>of
> > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from
Sunday).....
> >
> > Frank
> > BadAzXJ@m...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > >
> > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig.
> > >I love my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The H2
would
>be
> > >ok
> > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for free...I'd
>sell
>it
> > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > >
> > >Martin
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP magazine
doing
>the
> > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand due to
the
> > >rubicons
> > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the stupid
IFS,
>I
> > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > >
> > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday anyway. I
have
>kids
> > >that
> > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without worrying
about
> > >people
> > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear. Plus I
like
>my
> > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound system.
>Before
> > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will admit that
a
>stock
> > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and cash into
my
>rig
> > >to
> > > > hang in.
> > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be too
wide
>but
> > >if
> > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just pull a
rock
>buggy
> > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never engage
the
>locker
> > > > anyway)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A Rubicon
gets
>31"
> > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room,
probably
> > > > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also has a
bigger
> > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably gets more
> > > > >envious looks (without a single modification) than most Jeeps
that
> > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really
matters...)
> > > > >
> > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except under
the
> > > > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires. That
"road
> > > > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me nauseous.
What a
> > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a special
> > > > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit with a
lack
>of
> > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground up, and
the
> > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically only
>upgraded
> > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and rear
> > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some badass
> > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper use
of AL
> > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > > >
> > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would have a
hard
>time
> > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one? Ever
>ridden
> > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I have
done
>all
> > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2 might be
a
>fun
> > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s on
the H2
> > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep?
(Besides
>the
> > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving other
>rigs
> > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect. Yeah, we
all
> > > > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne, would
you?
> > > > >
> > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look at an
H-2
>in
> > > > >TX on
> > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards, didnt look
>like
> > > > >it was too
> > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance in the
>middle
> > > > >but none
> > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock ZJ
looks
> > > > >like it has
> > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon, I saw
one
>at
> > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that either
for
> > > > >the price,
> > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied with
my YJ
> > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > :-)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
__________________________________________________ _______________
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> > > >
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> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
> >
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76268 From: Martin Ward <martinida@c...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:33am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2
Hey from this angle it could be a YJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
To: <Joe-CJ7@J...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>;
<arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
> Kia pulling TJ....
>
> (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com oops
> section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from sunday)
>
> Frank
> BadAzXJ@m...
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@J...>
> >To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
> >
> >Frank,
> >
> >Where can I find the pictures?
> >
> >Joe Kearney
> >Joe-CJ7@J...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ side......
> > > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> > >
> > > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too bad...... :)
> > > The nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people just
> >say
> > > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I get my
junk
> > > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few good
> >shots
> >of
> > > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from
Sunday).....
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > > >
> > > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig.
> > > >I love my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The H2 woul
d
> >be
> > > >ok
> > > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for free...I'd
> >sell
> >it
> > > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > > >
> > > >Martin
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP magazine
doing
> >the
> > > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand due to
the
> > > >rubicons
> > > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the stupid
IFS,
> >I
> > > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > > >
> > > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday anyway. I have
> >kids
> > > >that
> > > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without worrying about
> > > >people
> > > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear. Plus I
like
> >my
> > > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound system.
> >Before
> > > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will admit that a
> >stock
> > > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and cash into
my
> >rig
> > > >to
> > > > > hang in.
> > > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be too
wide
> >but
> > > >if
> > > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just pull a rock
> >buggy
> > > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never engage the
> >locker
> > > > > anyway)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Frank
> > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A Rubicon
gets
> >31"
> > > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room, probably
> > > > > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also has a
bigger
> > > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably gets more
> > > > > >envious looks (without a single modification) than most Jeeps
that
> > > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really matters...)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except under the
> > > > > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires. That "road
> > > > > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me nauseous. What
a
> > > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a special
> > > > > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit with a lack
> >of
> > > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground up, and
the
> > > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically only
> >upgraded
> > > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and rear
> > > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some badass
> > > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper use of
AL
> > > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would have a hard
> >time
> > > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one? Ever
> >ridden
> > > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I have done
> >all
> > > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2 might be a
> >fun
> > > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s on the
H2
> > > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep? (Besides
> >the
> > > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving other
> >rigs
> > > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect. Yeah, we all
> > > > > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne, would
you?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look at an
H-2
> >in
> > > > > >TX on
> > > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards, didnt look
> >like
> > > > > >it was too
> > > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance in the
> >middle
> > > > > >but none
> > > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock ZJ
looks
> > > > > >like it has
> > > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon, I saw
one
> >at
> > > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that either
for
> > > > > >the price,
> > > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied with my
YJ
> > > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > > :-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
76269 From: robert_j_rogers2 <robert.rogers@h...> <robert.rogers@h...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:34am
Subject: Table Mesa shooting?
Has the agencies thought about posting the area no shooting during
the clean-up. It would not be fun to "dodge lead" while picking up
the mess. Some of the shooters may not want to stop long enough to
let us clean the target area.
76270 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:35am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2
nope sorry....2001 TJ. I wont name any names.
Keith..oops I mean
Frank
BadAzXJ@m...
>From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>,<arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com>,"BADAZXJ
>XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:33:55 -0700
>
>Hey from this angle it could be a YJ
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
>To: <Joe-CJ7@J...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>;
><arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> >
> > Kia pulling TJ....
> >
> > (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com oops
> > section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
>sunday)
> >
> > Frank
> > BadAzXJ@m...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@J...>
> > >To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
> > >
> > >Frank,
> > >
> > >Where can I find the pictures?
> > >
> > >Joe Kearney
> > >Joe-CJ7@J...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ side......
> > > > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> > > >
> > > > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too bad...... :)
> > > > The nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people
>just
> > >say
> > > > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I get my
>junk
> > > > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > > > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few good
> > >shots
> > >of
> > > > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from
>Sunday).....
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > > > >
> > > > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig.
> > > > >I love my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The H2
>woul
>d
> > >be
> > > > >ok
> > > > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for free...I'd
> > >sell
> > >it
> > > > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > > > >
> > > > >Martin
> > > > >
> > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP magazine
>doing
> > >the
> > > > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand due to
>the
> > > > >rubicons
> > > > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the stupid
>IFS,
> > >I
> > > > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday anyway. I
>have
> > >kids
> > > > >that
> > > > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without worrying
>about
> > > > >people
> > > > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear. Plus I
>like
> > >my
> > > > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound system.
> > >Before
> > > > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will admit that
>a
> > >stock
> > > > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and cash into
>my
> > >rig
> > > > >to
> > > > > > hang in.
> > > > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be too
>wide
> > >but
> > > > >if
> > > > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just pull a
>rock
> > >buggy
> > > > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never engage
>the
> > >locker
> > > > > > anyway)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Frank
> > > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A Rubicon
>gets
> > >31"
> > > > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room,
>probably
> > > > > > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also has a
>bigger
> > > > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably gets more
> > > > > > >envious looks (without a single modification) than most Jeeps
>that
> > > > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really
>matters...)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except under
>the
> > > > > > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires. That
>"road
> > > > > > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me nauseous.
>What
>a
> > > > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a special
> > > > > > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit with a
>lack
> > >of
> > > > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground up, and
>the
> > > > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically only
> > >upgraded
> > > > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and rear
> > > > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some badass
> > > > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper use
>of
>AL
> > > > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would have a
>hard
> > >time
> > > > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one? Ever
> > >ridden
> > > > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I have
>done
> > >all
> > > > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2 might be
>a
> > >fun
> > > > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s on
>the
>H2
> > > > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep?
>(Besides
> > >the
> > > > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving other
> > >rigs
> > > > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect. Yeah, we
>all
> > > > > > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne, would
>you?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look at an
>H-2
> > >in
> > > > > > >TX on
> > > > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards, didnt look
> > >like
> > > > > > >it was too
> > > > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance in the
> > >middle
> > > > > > >but none
> > > > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock ZJ
>looks
> > > > > > >like it has
> > > > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon, I saw
>one
> > >at
> > > > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that either
>for
> > > > > > >the price,
> > > > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied with
>my
>YJ
> > > > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > > > :-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
>__________________________________________________ _______________
> > > > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > > > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
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> > > >
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> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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> >
> >
>
>
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76271 From: Martin Ward <martinida@c...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:37am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2
Nevermind there is another picture on the website ;(
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>; <arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com>; "BADAZXJ
XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> Hey from this angle it could be a YJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> To: <Joe-CJ7@J...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>;
> <arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> >
> > Kia pulling TJ....
> >
> > (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com oops
> > section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
sunday)
> >
> > Frank
> > BadAzXJ@m...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@J...>
> > >To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
> > >
> > >Frank,
> > >
> > >Where can I find the pictures?
> > >
> > >Joe Kearney
> > >Joe-CJ7@J...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ side......
> > > > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> > > >
> > > > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too bad...... :)
> > > > The nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people
just
> > >say
> > > > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I get my
> junk
> > > > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > > > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few good
> > >shots
> > >of
> > > > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from
> Sunday).....
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > >
76252 From: Daver <daver@i...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:45am
Subject: Re: RE: Table Mesa Cleanup wheeling?
P4W normally hands out fliers at the local shooting ranges (i.e. Ben Avery and whatnot.)
John's comment about those not being the ones causing the problem though is likely correct. A lot of the mess isn't even shooting, it is just general dumping. Last time we were out there the boy-child couldn't understand "why someone would hate a refrige
rator so much to shoot it so many times."
======= At 2003-01-23, 08:53:00 DesertJeep wrote: =======
>Do you know of any efforts made to inform the target shooting community
>of this clean up? What kind of "points" are we getting? We clean up the
>junk made by a totally different recreation and we keep the trails we
>wheel open? I feel our efforts would be better recognized if we found a
>way to educate the real responsible parties and have them clean up there
>own brethren's trash.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
76253 From: Linda <minihummer@w...> <minihummer@w...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:45am
Subject: Re: Jamboree 2003
Neil,
You need to get people to buy into the association through
memberships if you want the ASA4WDC to change. That isn't going to
happen by posting complaints about its leadership. Just remember it's
the only state-wide organized 4x4 association we have.
Linda
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, <gotrox@c...> wrote:
> Linda, I would have to agree with Sandee, the VJC has done alot for
the wheeling community. It is whats driving ASA4WDC to re-evaluate
there public relations with the community. Many of the VJC don't see
what ASA is doing when it comes to land issues or what the
organization is about. It is time that people get involved with the
ASA and fix it so that there is no mistaking what it's benefits are.
I see a major leadership change for ASA in the future. Information
lead to knowledge, if ASA or and individual wants to post info on
this board regarding Jamboree or any other event, why not?
>
> Neal Han****
> Arizona Rock Crawlers
> ASA4WDC Delegate
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "Sandee McCullen" <mccullen@c...>
> Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:00 am
> Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: 2003 Jamboree
>
>
> Linda,
> Quite frankly Jamboree would have fallen flat on it's A** if it
wasn't for
> VJC this past year!!!! Want to lay bets as to how many
ASA4WDC "club"
> members show to the cleanup on Saturday vs how many VJC!!!
>
> When it comes to "letters", "support", "work", "charity" or simply
respect
> we can be guaranteed response from VJC..... a "H" more than ASA4WDC.
> You're right.......... a majority of them do not want the
restrictions of
> incorporating, dues, by-laws etc but that does not put them outside
the
> circle. Many of them ARE changing........... I'll lay bets MORE VJC
guys
> have State Land Permits than do the ASA4WDC Club Members!
>
> What's with your attitude with VJC?
>
> Sandee
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Linda <minihummer@w...>
> > [mailto:minihummer@w...]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 7:09 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: 2003 Jamboree
> >
> >
> > Why in the heck would a bunch of 4-wheelers who don't care to be a
> > part of organized 4-wheeling care about when the ASA4WDC Jamboree
is
> > being held? I doubt the more than 10% of the folks in the AZVJC
are
> > memebers of ASA4WDC member clubs or belong as individual members
to
> > the ASA4WDC or the UFWDA -- because it costs too much. There is no
> > point in posting ASA4WDC business on this forum.
> >
> > Linda
76254 From: Scott Rafferty <like2drivemycj5@y...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:51am
Subject: funky camber
the 35''s on my 73'cj-5 are leaning outward \ / this has been puzzling me for a while. there is very little play in the hub when the wheel is off the ground, probably from the wheel bearings. and the lower ball joints were replaced 6 months ago. it is a dana 30 axle. does any body have any sugestions as to what is wrong, or how to fix/adjust it?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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76255 From: Martin Ward <martinida@c...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:56am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2
With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig.
I love my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The H2 would be ok
to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for free...I'd sell it
and keep my F250 for that purpose.
Martin
----- Original Message -----
From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
> The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP magazine doing the
> review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand due to the
rubicons
> low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the stupid IFS, I
> wouldnt turn it down either........
>
> But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday anyway. I have kids
that
> love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without worrying about people
> jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear. Plus I like my
> music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound system. Before
> everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will admit that a stock
> cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and cash into my rig to
> hang in.
> (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be too wide but if
> you have that kind of cash laying around you can just pull a rock buggy
> behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never engage the locker
> anyway)
>
>
> Preparing flame retarding suit..........
>
>
> Frank
> BadAzXJ@m...
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> >
> > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A Rubicon gets 31"
> >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room, probably
> >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also has a bigger
> >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably gets more
> >envious looks (without a single modification) than most Jeeps that
> >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really matters...)
> >
> > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except under the
> >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires. That "road
> >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me nauseous. What a
> >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a special
> >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit with a lack of
> >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground up, and the
> >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically only upgraded
> >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and rear
> >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some badass
> >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper use of AL
> >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> >
> > If I could choose either one for free, I would have a hard time
> >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one? Ever ridden
> >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I have done all
> >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2 might be a fun
> >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s on the H2
> >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep? (Besides the
> >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving other rigs
> >that are worthy of their intended use some respect. Yeah, we all
> >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne, would you?
> >
> > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> >
> >
> >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look at an H-2 in
> >TX on
> > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards, didnt look like
> >it was too
> > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance in the middle
> >but none
> > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock ZJ looks
> >like it has
> > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon, I saw one at
> >4Wheelers
> > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that either for
> >the price,
> > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied with my YJ
> >and CJ.
> > > :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
76256 From: Roger Tomas <tomasr@a...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:59am
Subject: Re: Re: super 35, gears & locker?
Does the Waggy pitman arm have any drop to it? If not, you'll need
to check that you have the clearance for it. On my YJ, a straight
pitman arm would contact the sway bar. I know the TJ sway bar
is routed differently but I don't know if the TJ has anything else in
the way.
I run Moser 30-spline alloy shafts in my rear 44 and have never had
a problem with them. 31-spline alloys should work well for you. In
general, I'm not fond of redrilling axle shafts. That's why I replaced
my rear shafts when I changed bolt patterns.
I'm not sure you can convert from a 5-on-4.5" to a 6-on-5.5" pattern
because a couple of the holes come real close to each other and there
might not be enough material around the lugs. I think you'd better check
into that before you get your mind set on that solution. I know this is
the case because I redrilled my rear brake drums myself in order to
change from 5-on-4.5" to 5-on-5.5". I can show you one of my drums
if you want to see how the holes line up.
As for the width, I really don't think you'll need the rear spacers or new
wheels. If your rear is within a couple inches of your front, you won't
hardly notice it. Also, it's my understanding that you want the rear to
be narrower than the front for better tracking down the road. So you'd
be in good shape. I'd try things with your current wheels and without
spacers and see how it is. I suspect it will be fine. You can always
do the wheels and/or spacers later on.
-Roger
Scott Kruize wrote:
> Roger,
>
> My pitman arm is drilled for the ORF steering so I need to replace it. I
> was thinking about using a Waggy pitman arm because it has a lot more
> metal around the hole. I won't know if it needs to be dropped or not
> until I get it in my garage on Saturday and take some measurements. When
> I weld on the axle brackets I will have to adjust the angle of my
> trackbar to run parallel to the higher steering.
>
> I called Dutchman today. They say the 8.8 shafts cannot be redrilled
> because the material around the flange is weak. A set of 31 spline alloy
> shafts in 6x5.5" pattern would be $240 a pair with studs installed. So
> it's an improvement in strength too. They will drill the rotors at the
> same time and make sure they match up. Drilling the rotors costs $35 a
> pair. They assured me that they have done this before and there is
> plenty of room inside the hat of the rotor for the shaft.
>
> Or I can get some wheel adaptors to go to 6x5.5" pattern. Cost is
> $99-125 a pair depending on the source. I already have a spare set of
> shafts so this might make more sense. Consider these measurements:
>
> Stock TJ D30 and D35: 60.00"
> Ford 8.8: 59.25"
>
> Wagoneer front 44: 61.50"
> Ford 8.8 with 6on5.5 adaptors 61.25"
>
> I'm currently running 15x10's with 3.75" backspacing. If I get wheels
> that have 4.5" backspacing I will move each side in 3/4" which
> ultimately puts my width sidewall to sidewall up front at the same width
> as I currently am. The rear will be 1/4" narrower than the front, but
> 1/2" wider than it is now. So the adapters start to look good.
> Replacement parts are cheaper to acquire if needed. I can still install
> off the shelf alloy shafts later on.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Scott K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Tomas [mailto:tomasr@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 9:51 AM
> To: Scott Kruize
> Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: super 35, gears & locker?
>
> Are you having the shafts and rotors redrilled or just the rotors? If
> you're ordering new shafts, might you also need to consider the center
> holes in the rotors (assuming they center on the end of the shaft
> instead of the lugs)?
>
> I agree the low pinion isn't that much of an issue because most of the
> time you place your front tires on the high points and the pinion/shaft
> don't touch anything - even with the low pinion. I've only hit my front
> shaft on the rocks once and that was when I took a bad line and then
> slid sideways.
>
> As for the steering, I kept the Waggy tie rod and drag link. You're
> right that the Waggy tie rod and drag link are significantly more beefy
> than both the YJ and TJ links. And the length was correct.
>
> Note that since the Waggy tie rod is on top of the knuckle arms, I had
> to remove my drop pitman arm and go back to my stock pitman arm. I view
> this as a good thing. You might to do the same although you have more
> lift than me so it's not clear.
>
> You will also have to get your pitman arm reamed out to accept the Waggy
> drag link end as it is bigger than your stock drag link end. OR Fab did
> mine but most fab shops can probably do this. The hole has a conical
> shape which means you can't just use a normal drill bit to do it.
>
> Let me know if you have any other questions.
>
> -Roger
>
> Scott Kruize wrote:
>
> > Roger,
> >
> > I am picking up a Waggy 44 front end on Saturday morning. I will have
> > the 8.8 redrilled to match the front 6 on 5.5 pattern like you did
> > with your D44 rear end. I ultimately decided that hi pinion wasn't a
> > big issue. Look at this pic of my TJ with the low pinion 30 and you
> > will see why.
> >
> > I am also getting the Waggy steering so I'll just run the knuckle over
>
> > setup. That Waggy tierod and draglink look damn beefy and should raise
>
> > my steering up 3-4 inches compared to my ORF steering. Supposedly the
> > length works fine with the TJs and Yjs. Which steering did you use on
> > yours?
> >
> > Scott K
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...> [mailto:tomasr@a...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:04 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: super 35, gears & locker?
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...> wrote:
> > > <snip>
> > > Regarding cost of switching the rear bolt pattern consider this: Is
> > it
> > > cheaper to convert pattern or try to add disk brakes to the 35? It's
>
> > > pretty much a wash here unless you don't mind the drum brakes.
> > > <snip>
> >
> > Horshe****! Er... I mean, agreed! ;-)
> >
> > I wasn't endorsing the Super 35 kit over the 8.8 swap. (Sorry if it
> > came across that way.) Instead, I was merely trying to point out a
> > possible issue that a lot of people might not think about until long
> > after the 8.8 swap was done and it was time for a front axle swap.
> >
> > -Roger
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > Name: IMG_3841.jpg
> > IMG_3841.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
> > Encoding: base64
> > Download Status: Not downloaded with message
76257 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:04am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2
I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ side......
Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too bad...... :)
The nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people just say
"what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I get my junk
stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few good shots of
the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from Sunday).....
Frank
BadAzXJ@m...
>From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
>
>With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig.
>I love my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The H2 would be
>ok
>to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for free...I'd sell it
>and keep my F250 for that purpose.
>
>Martin
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> >
> > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP magazine doing the
> > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand due to the
>rubicons
> > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the stupid IFS, I
> > wouldnt turn it down either........
> >
> > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday anyway. I have kids
>that
> > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without worrying about
>people
> > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear. Plus I like my
> > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound system. Before
> > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will admit that a stock
> > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and cash into my rig
>to
> > hang in.
> > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be too wide but
>if
> > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just pull a rock buggy
> > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never engage the locker
> > anyway)
> >
> >
> > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> >
> >
> > Frank
> > BadAzXJ@m...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > >
> > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A Rubicon gets 31"
> > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room, probably
> > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also has a bigger
> > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably gets more
> > >envious looks (without a single modification) than most Jeeps that
> > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really matters...)
> > >
> > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except under the
> > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires. That "road
> > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me nauseous. What a
> > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a special
> > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit with a lack of
> > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground up, and the
> > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically only upgraded
> > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and rear
> > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some badass
> > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper use of AL
> > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > >
> > > If I could choose either one for free, I would have a hard time
> > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one? Ever ridden
> > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I have done all
> > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2 might be a fun
> > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s on the H2
> > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep? (Besides the
> > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving other rigs
> > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect. Yeah, we all
> > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne, would you?
> > >
> > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > >
> > >
> > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look at an H-2 in
> > >TX on
> > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards, didnt look like
> > >it was too
> > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance in the middle
> > >but none
> > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock ZJ looks
> > >like it has
> > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon, I saw one at
> > >4Wheelers
> > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that either for
> > >the price,
> > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied with my YJ
> > >and CJ.
> > > > :-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
__________________________________________________ _______________
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76258 From: Scott Kruize <skruize@c...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:02am
Subject: RE: Re: super 35, gears & locker?
Roger,
You are right about the width. Its actually preferable to have the front
2" wider than the rear. The rear will track better on the trail and on
the street. I already had that info filed away in my head, thanks for
helping me recover it. :D
Like I said earlier I'm sold on the new alloys.
Thanks!
Scott K
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Tomas [mailto:tomasr@a...]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:00 AM
To: Scott Kruize
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: super 35, gears & locker?
Does the Waggy pitman arm have any drop to it? If not, you'll need to
check that you have the clearance for it. On my YJ, a straight pitman
arm would contact the sway bar. I know the TJ sway bar is routed
differently but I don't know if the TJ has anything else in the way.
I run Moser 30-spline alloy shafts in my rear 44 and have never had a
problem with them. 31-spline alloys should work well for you. In
general, I'm not fond of redrilling axle shafts. That's why I replaced
my rear shafts when I changed bolt patterns.
I'm not sure you can convert from a 5-on-4.5" to a 6-on-5.5" pattern
because a couple of the holes come real close to each other and there
might not be enough material around the lugs. I think you'd better
check into that before you get your mind set on that solution. I know
this is the case because I redrilled my rear brake drums myself in order
to change from 5-on-4.5" to 5-on-5.5". I can show you one of my drums
if you want to see how the holes line up.
As for the width, I really don't think you'll need the rear spacers or
new wheels. If your rear is within a couple inches of your front, you
won't hardly notice it. Also, it's my understanding that you want the
rear to be narrower than the front for better tracking down the road.
So you'd be in good shape. I'd try things with your current wheels and
without spacers and see how it is. I suspect it will be fine. You can
always do the wheels and/or spacers later on.
-Roger
Scott Kruize wrote:
> Roger,
>
> My pitman arm is drilled for the ORF steering so I need to replace it.
> I was thinking about using a Waggy pitman arm because it has a lot
> more metal around the hole. I won't know if it needs to be dropped or
> not until I get it in my garage on Saturday and take some
> measurements. When I weld on the axle brackets I will have to adjust
> the angle of my trackbar to run parallel to the higher steering.
>
> I called Dutchman today. They say the 8.8 shafts cannot be redrilled
> because the material around the flange is weak. A set of 31 spline
> alloy shafts in 6x5.5" pattern would be $240 a pair with studs
> installed. So it's an improvement in strength too. They will drill the
> rotors at the same time and make sure they match up. Drilling the
> rotors costs $35 a pair. They assured me that they have done this
> before and there is plenty of room inside the hat of the rotor for the
> shaft.
>
> Or I can get some wheel adaptors to go to 6x5.5" pattern. Cost is
> $99-125 a pair depending on the source. I already have a spare set of
> shafts so this might make more sense. Consider these measurements:
>
> Stock TJ D30 and D35: 60.00"
> Ford 8.8: 59.25"
>
> Wagoneer front 44: 61.50"
> Ford 8.8 with 6on5.5 adaptors 61.25"
>
> I'm currently running 15x10's with 3.75" backspacing. If I get wheels
> that have 4.5" backspacing I will move each side in 3/4" which
> ultimately puts my width sidewall to sidewall up front at the same
> width as I currently am. The rear will be 1/4" narrower than the
> front, but 1/2" wider than it is now. So the adapters start to look
> good. Replacement parts are cheaper to acquire if needed. I can still
> install off the shelf alloy shafts later on.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Scott K
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Tomas [mailto:tomasr@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 9:51 AM
> To: Scott Kruize
> Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: super 35, gears & locker?
>
> Are you having the shafts and rotors redrilled or just the rotors? If
> you're ordering new shafts, might you also need to consider the center
> holes in the rotors (assuming they center on the end of the shaft
> instead of the lugs)?
>
> I agree the low pinion isn't that much of an issue because most of the
> time you place your front tires on the high points and the
> pinion/shaft don't touch anything - even with the low pinion. I've
> only hit my front shaft on the rocks once and that was when I took a
> bad line and then slid sideways.
>
> As for the steering, I kept the Waggy tie rod and drag link. You're
> right that the Waggy tie rod and drag link are significantly more
> beefy than both the YJ and TJ links. And the length was correct.
>
> Note that since the Waggy tie rod is on top of the knuckle arms, I had
> to remove my drop pitman arm and go back to my stock pitman arm. I
> view this as a good thing. You might to do the same although you have
> more lift than me so it's not clear.
>
> You will also have to get your pitman arm reamed out to accept the
> Waggy drag link end as it is bigger than your stock drag link end. OR
> Fab did mine but most fab shops can probably do this. The hole has a
> conical shape which means you can't just use a normal drill bit to do
> it.
>
> Let me know if you have any other questions.
>
> -Roger
>
> Scott Kruize wrote:
>
> > Roger,
> >
> > I am picking up a Waggy 44 front end on Saturday morning. I will
> > have the 8.8 redrilled to match the front 6 on 5.5 pattern like you
> > did with your D44 rear end. I ultimately decided that hi pinion
> > wasn't a big issue. Look at this pic of my TJ with the low pinion 30
> > and you will see why.
> >
> > I am also getting the Waggy steering so I'll just run the knuckle
> > over
>
> > setup. That Waggy tierod and draglink look damn beefy and should
> > raise
>
> > my steering up 3-4 inches compared to my ORF steering. Supposedly
> > the length works fine with the TJs and Yjs. Which steering did you
> > use on yours?
> >
> > Scott K
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...> [mailto:tomasr@a...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:04 AM
> > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: super 35, gears & locker?
> >
> > --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Kruize" <skruize@c...> wrote:
> > > <snip>
> > > Regarding cost of switching the rear bolt pattern consider this:
> > > Is
> > it
> > > cheaper to convert pattern or try to add disk brakes to the 35?
> > > It's
>
> > > pretty much a wash here unless you don't mind the drum brakes.
> > > <snip>
> >
> > Horshe****! Er... I mean, agreed! ;-)
> >
> > I wasn't endorsing the Super 35 kit over the 8.8 swap. (Sorry if it
> > came across that way.) Instead, I was merely trying to point out a
> > possible issue that a lot of people might not think about until long
> > after the 8.8 swap was done and it was time for a front axle swap.
> >
> > -Roger
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > Name: IMG_3841.jpg
> > IMG_3841.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
> > Encoding: base64
> > Download Status: Not downloaded with message
76259 From: Martin Ward <martinida@c...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:11am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2
Kia pulling TJ. That is so wrong it is not even possible to express my
disgust. I would have committed ritual suicide next to my TJ before I let
that happen.
Martin
----- Original Message -----
From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ side......
> Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
>
> We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too bad...... :)
> The nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people just say
> "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I get my junk
> stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few good shots
of
> the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from Sunday).....
>
> Frank
> BadAzXJ@m...
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> >
> >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig.
> >I love my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The H2 would be
> >ok
> >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for free...I'd sell
it
> >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> >
> >Martin
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > >
> > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP magazine doing
the
> > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand due to the
> >rubicons
> > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the stupid IFS, I
> > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > >
> > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday anyway. I have kids
> >that
> > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without worrying about
> >people
> > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear. Plus I like
my
> > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound system.
Before
> > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will admit that a
stock
> > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and cash into my
rig
> >to
> > > hang in.
> > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be too wide
but
> >if
> > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just pull a rock
buggy
> > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never engage the
locker
> > > anyway)
> > >
> > >
> > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > >
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > >
> > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A Rubicon gets
31"
> > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room, probably
> > > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also has a bigger
> > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably gets more
> > > >envious looks (without a single modification) than most Jeeps that
> > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really matters...)
> > > >
> > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except under the
> > > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires. That "road
> > > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me nauseous. What a
> > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a special
> > > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit with a lack of
> > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground up, and the
> > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically only upgraded
> > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and rear
> > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some badass
> > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper use of AL
> > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > >
> > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would have a hard time
> > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one? Ever ridden
> > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I have done all
> > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2 might be a fun
> > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s on the H2
> > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep? (Besides the
> > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving other rigs
> > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect. Yeah, we all
> > > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne, would you?
> > > >
> > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look at an H-2
in
> > > >TX on
> > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards, didnt look like
> > > >it was too
> > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance in the
middle
> > > >but none
> > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock ZJ looks
> > > >like it has
> > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon, I saw one
at
> > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that either for
> > > >the price,
> > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied with my YJ
> > > >and CJ.
> > > > > :-)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
76260 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:00am
Subject: RE: Re: Jamboree 2003
Linda,
The only "memberships" available to AZVJC members at this time are
individual.......... what exactly does this do? They get nothing for this
membership. It is simply a "supporting membership". They have no vote, no
permits, no insurance....... what Neal is refering to re "fix the ASA" or
"re-evaluate PR with the community" is simply stating the ASA4WDC needs to
be progressive in "growing with the times". We MUST find a way to
incorporate groups like VJC.......... I believe there are small groups
forming from the AZVJC that are considering, or doing, incorporations at
this time just so they can truly be involved and have a vote in what's
happening within this organization now, but this plan will not work in the
future.
Personally I don't think we truly need EACH club to be incorporated and I'm
going to follow up on this theory......... Each department within a
corporation doesn't need to incorporate. If a group wishes to "join"
ASA4WDC they should be able to join under the ASA4WDC Incorporation. Yes,
they will still have to pay the yearly dues and that is one of the issues
many are against but IF they receive something for their $18.00 maybe
they'll change their thoughts on that............ the ASA4WDC by-laws could
easily cover non-incorporated groups. They could read just like Az Lo
Rangers........ no requirements other than owning a 4x4 and paying yearly
dues. ????
You have to admit that the ASA4WDC club members have NOT been active or
vocal in any land use/access issues until very recently!!!! We wouldn't be
where we are in negotiations with the Tucson office if it wasn't for
AZVJC!!!!
Re: "posting complaints about its leadership"............. if there are
serious enough complaints don't you feel this is a message to encourage
CHANGE??? When there's a problem within your office is it left to function
this way?.... I don't think so. The ASA4WDC has a problem................
it's being worked on. Simple as that. It's 2003, not 1966..........
CHANGE will come.
Sandee
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Linda <minihummer@w...>
> [mailto:minihummer@w...]
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:45 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Jamboree 2003
>
>
> Neil,
>
> You need to get people to buy into the association through
> memberships if you want the ASA4WDC to change. That isn't going to
> happen by posting complaints about its leadership. Just remember it's
> the only state-wide organized 4x4 association we have.
>
> Linda
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, <gotrox@c...> wrote:
> > Linda, I would have to agree with Sandee, the VJC has done alot for
> the wheeling community. It is whats driving ASA4WDC to re-evaluate
> there public relations with the community. Many of the VJC don't see
> what ASA is doing when it comes to land issues or what the
> organization is about. It is time that people get involved with the
> ASA and fix it so that there is no mistaking what it's benefits are.
> I see a major leadership change for ASA in the future. Information
> lead to knowledge, if ASA or and individual wants to post info on
> this board regarding Jamboree or any other event, why not?
> >
> > Neal Han****
> > Arizona Rock Crawlers
> > ASA4WDC Delegate
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: "Sandee McCullen" <mccullen@c...>
> > Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:00 am
> > Subject: RE: [az_vjc] Re: 2003 Jamboree
> >
> >
> > Linda,
> > Quite frankly Jamboree would have fallen flat on it's A** if it
> wasn't for
> > VJC this past year!!!! Want to lay bets as to how many
> ASA4WDC "club"
> > members show to the cleanup on Saturday vs how many VJC!!!
> >
> > When it comes to "letters", "support", "work", "charity" or simply
> respect
> > we can be guaranteed response from VJC..... a "H" more than ASA4WDC.
> > You're right.......... a majority of them do not want the
> restrictions of
> > incorporating, dues, by-laws etc but that does not put them outside
> the
> > circle. Many of them ARE changing........... I'll lay bets MORE VJC
> guys
> > have State Land Permits than do the ASA4WDC Club Members!
> >
> > What's with your attitude with VJC?
> >
> > Sandee
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Linda <minihummer@w...>
> > > [mailto:minihummer@w...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 7:09 AM
> > > To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [az_vjc] Re: 2003 Jamboree
> > >
> > >
> > > Why in the heck would a bunch of 4-wheelers who don't care to be a
> > > part of organized 4-wheeling care about when the ASA4WDC Jamboree
> is
> > > being held? I doubt the more than 10% of the folks in the AZVJC
> are
> > > memebers of ASA4WDC member clubs or belong as individual members
> to
> > > the ASA4WDC or the UFWDA -- because it costs too much. There is no
> > > point in posting ASA4WDC business on this forum.
> > >
> > > Linda
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
76261 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:13am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2
now thats funny. I feel the same way. Put a stake in the ground and mark the
jeep dead.
>From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>,"BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:11:26 -0700
>
>Kia pulling TJ. That is so wrong it is not even possible to express my
>disgust. I would have committed ritual suicide next to my TJ before I let
>that happen.
>
>Martin
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ side......
> > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> >
> > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too bad...... :)
> > The nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people just
>say
> > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I get my junk
> > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few good
>shots
>of
> > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from Sunday).....
> >
> > Frank
> > BadAzXJ@m...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > >
> > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig.
> > >I love my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The H2 would
>be
> > >ok
> > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for free...I'd
>sell
>it
> > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > >
> > >Martin
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP magazine doing
>the
> > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand due to the
> > >rubicons
> > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the stupid IFS,
>I
> > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > >
> > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday anyway. I have
>kids
> > >that
> > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without worrying about
> > >people
> > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear. Plus I like
>my
> > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound system.
>Before
> > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will admit that a
>stock
> > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and cash into my
>rig
> > >to
> > > > hang in.
> > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be too wide
>but
> > >if
> > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just pull a rock
>buggy
> > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never engage the
>locker
> > > > anyway)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A Rubicon gets
>31"
> > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room, probably
> > > > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also has a bigger
> > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably gets more
> > > > >envious looks (without a single modification) than most Jeeps that
> > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really matters...)
> > > > >
> > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except under the
> > > > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires. That "road
> > > > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me nauseous. What a
> > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a special
> > > > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit with a lack
>of
> > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground up, and the
> > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically only
>upgraded
> > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and rear
> > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some badass
> > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper use of AL
> > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > > >
> > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would have a hard
>time
> > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one? Ever
>ridden
> > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I have done
>all
> > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2 might be a
>fun
> > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s on the H2
> > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep? (Besides
>the
> > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving other
>rigs
> > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect. Yeah, we all
> > > > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne, would you?
> > > > >
> > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look at an H-2
>in
> > > > >TX on
> > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards, didnt look
>like
> > > > >it was too
> > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance in the
>middle
> > > > >but none
> > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock ZJ looks
> > > > >like it has
> > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon, I saw one
>at
> > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that either for
> > > > >the price,
> > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied with my YJ
> > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > :-)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________ _______________
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
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76262 From: Rob Williams <g_rob_williams@y...> <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:17am
Subject: Re: [OT]You Think A Gallon Of Gas Is Expensive?
I noticed "Milk" has been taken out since the last time this was
posted.... I thought that was funny because right after it was
posted milk was 1.35 a gallon and gas was up to 1.40! LOL I'm sure
glad my Jeep doesnt run off Scope though... then what would I gargle
with? GAS??? I do have to argue with water though.... I WISH my Jeep
ran off water! 25 cents a gallon at Water and Ice!! -Rob
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "CoyotEddie" <coyoteddie@e...> wrote:
>
> You Think A Gallon Of Gas Is Expensive? This puts things in
perspective...
>
> Diet Snapple 16 oz $1.29 .... $10.32 per gallon
> Lipton Ice Tea 16 oz $1.19 ...$ 9.52 per gallon
> Gatorade 20 oz $1.59 ........ $10.17 per gallon
> Ocean Spray 16 oz $1.25 ....$10 .00 per gallon
> Brake Fluid 12 oz $3.15 ...... $33.60 per gallon
> Vick's Nyquil 6 oz $8.35... $178.13 per gallon
> Pepto Bismol 4 oz $3.85 .... $123.20 per gallon
> Whiteout 7 oz $1.39 .......... $25.42 per gallon
> Scope 1.5 oz $0.99.......$84.48 per gallon
>
> and the REAL KICKER.... Evian water 9 oz for $1.49, $21.19 per
gallon ...
> $21.19 FOR WATER! ....and the buyers don't even know the source.
>
> So, the next time you're at the pump, be glad your car doesn't run
on water, Scope,
> or Whiteout, or Heaven forbid, PEPTO BISMOL or NYQUIL!!
>
> Just a little humor to help ease the pain of your next trip to the
pump!
76263 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:22am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2
Kia pulling TJ....
(if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com oops
section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from sunday)
Frank
BadAzXJ@msn.com
>From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@JRKearney.com>
>To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@msn.com>
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
>
>Frank,
>
>Where can I find the pictures?
>
>Joe Kearney
>Joe-CJ7@JRKearney.com
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@msn.com>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ side......
> > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> >
> > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too bad...... :)
> > The nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people just
>say
> > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I get my junk
> > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few good
>shots
>of
> > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from Sunday).....
> >
> > Frank
> > BadAzXJ@msn.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@cox.net>
> > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > >
> > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig.
> > >I love my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The H2 would
>be
> > >ok
> > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for free...I'd
>sell
>it
> > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > >
> > >Martin
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@msn.com>
> > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP magazine doing
>the
> > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand due to the
> > >rubicons
> > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the stupid IFS,
>I
> > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > >
> > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday anyway. I have
>kids
> > >that
> > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without worrying about
> > >people
> > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear. Plus I like
>my
> > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound system.
>Before
> > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will admit that a
>stock
> > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and cash into my
>rig
> > >to
> > > > hang in.
> > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be too wide
>but
> > >if
> > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just pull a rock
>buggy
> > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never engage the
>locker
> > > > anyway)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > > BadAzXJ@msn.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@yahoo.com>" <jeepindog@yahoo.com>
> > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A Rubicon gets
>31"
> > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room, probably
> > > > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also has a bigger
> > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably gets more
> > > > >envious looks (without a single modification) than most Jeeps that
> > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really matters...)
> > > > >
> > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except under the
> > > > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires. That "road
> > > > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me nauseous. What a
> > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a special
> > > > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit with a lack
>of
> > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground up, and the
> > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically only
>upgraded
> > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and rear
> > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some badass
> > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper use of AL
> > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > > >
> > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would have a hard
>time
> > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one? Ever
>ridden
> > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I have done
>all
> > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2 might be a
>fun
> > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s on the H2
> > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep? (Besides
>the
> > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving other
>rigs
> > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect. Yeah, we all
> > > > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne, would you?
> > > > >
> > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look at an H-2
>in
> > > > >TX on
> > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards, didnt look
>like
> > > > >it was too
> > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance in the
>middle
> > > > >but none
> > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock ZJ looks
> > > > >like it has
> > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon, I saw one
>at
> > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that either for
> > > > >the price,
> > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied with my YJ
> > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > :-)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________ _______________
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Attachment: (image/pjpeg) kiamud.jpg [not stored]
76264 From: robert_j_rogers2 <robert.rogers@h...> <robert.rogers@h...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:26am
Subject: Re: 2003 Jamboree
B*))S&!^ I went to it last year and will again this year, IF it is
posted. It seems to me that I jeard about it by someones post not
from the ASA4WDC, and why should someone named minihummer be listened
to anyway.
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Linda <minihummer@w...>"
<minihummer@w...> wrote:
> Why in the heck would a bunch of 4-wheelers who don't care to be a
> part of organized 4-wheeling care about when the ASA4WDC Jamboree
is
> being held? I doubt the more than 10% of the folks in the AZVJC are
> memebers of ASA4WDC member clubs or belong as individual members to
> the ASA4WDC or the UFWDA -- because it costs too much. There is no
> point in posting ASA4WDC business on this forum.
>
76265 From: Trujillo, Jeff <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:09am
Subject: RE: [arizonaXJ] Re: Bad news for us.. better get thoes kill switc hes......
Yea Bea,
Let us know when you want to do some wrenching (not wenching LOL) parties on
your XJ. We'd be glad to help.
Frank, I was thinking of posting a Jeep run in a couple of weeks for the
Kids in their JEEPS. Something the kids can really enjoy and give a chance
to teach the kids some things instead of just having them ride along. We
would have to have a good enough place with some slight hills and so forth.
What do you think? Anybody else with some suggestions?
Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice:(480)346-6249
Fax:(480)346-6813
-----Original Message-----
From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:58 AM
To: arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [arizonaXJ] Re: Bad news for us.. better get thoes kill
switches......
Bea,
We need to get your jeep into shape quick so you can make an appearance on a
run...There is talk that you do not exist and are just another one of
Flexy's multiple personalities (IE: joline, joe, flexy, etc).
Just kidding LOL.... (or am I?)
Frank
BadAzXJ@m...
>From: "bgalsim <bgalsim@y...>" <bgalsim@y...>
>Reply-To: arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
>To: arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [arizonaXJ] Re: Bad news for us.. better get thoes kill
>switches......
>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 14:59:45 -0000
>
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76266 From: Rob Williams <g_rob_williams@y...> <g_rob_williams@y...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:29am
Subject: Re: gonna get a new soft top!!!
Buy a BESTOP! everything else is crap! LOL As for the sail cloth
top... it is supposed to be better quality and a lot more quiet. If
you got the extra bucks to spend I'd get it... but the replace a top
is a pretty good top if you cant afford the golden sail cloth! -Rob
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "onebdjeep" <onebdjeep@c...> wrote:
> k... i have convinced my wife that my baby needs a new top. i
don't know how but i did. (a little rum with her cereal goes a long
way!!!) now for the best place (quality and deal)? any one have any
suggestions? what the hell is this sail cloth stuff? is it made out
of gold?
>
> any info would be great! i will be ready to purchase after feb 15.
gettin damn cold in the morning!
>
> thx!
>
>
> Sean Speer
> OneBdJeep (someday!!)
> '97 TJ with killer mods to come!!!
> (umm... will drink beer for Jeep parts!!!)
76267 From: Clint Ramsey <cwramsey@t...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:12am
Subject: RE: Re: Rubicon VS H2
I almost vomited when I opened that picture
Clint
-----Original Message-----
From: BADAZXJ XJArizona [mailto:BadAZXJ@m...]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
To: Joe-CJ7@J...; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com;
arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
Kia pulling TJ....
(if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com oops
section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
sunday)
Frank
BadAzXJ@m...
>From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@J...>
>To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
>
>Frank,
>
>Where can I find the pictures?
>
>Joe Kearney
>Joe-CJ7@J...
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ side......
> > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> >
> > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too bad...... :)
> > The nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people
just
>say
> > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I get my
junk
> > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few good
>shots
>of
> > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from
Sunday).....
> >
> > Frank
> > BadAzXJ@m...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > >
> > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig.
> > >I love my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The H2
would
>be
> > >ok
> > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for free...I'd
>sell
>it
> > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > >
> > >Martin
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP magazine
doing
>the
> > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand due to
the
> > >rubicons
> > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the stupid
IFS,
>I
> > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > >
> > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday anyway. I
have
>kids
> > >that
> > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without worrying
about
> > >people
> > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear. Plus I
like
>my
> > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound system.
>Before
> > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will admit that
a
>stock
> > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and cash into
my
>rig
> > >to
> > > > hang in.
> > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be too
wide
>but
> > >if
> > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just pull a
rock
>buggy
> > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never engage
the
>locker
> > > > anyway)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A Rubicon
gets
>31"
> > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room,
probably
> > > > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also has a
bigger
> > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably gets more
> > > > >envious looks (without a single modification) than most Jeeps
that
> > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really
matters...)
> > > > >
> > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except under
the
> > > > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires. That
"road
> > > > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me nauseous.
What a
> > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a special
> > > > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit with a
lack
>of
> > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground up, and
the
> > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically only
>upgraded
> > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and rear
> > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some badass
> > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper use
of AL
> > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > > >
> > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would have a
hard
>time
> > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one? Ever
>ridden
> > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I have
done
>all
> > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2 might be
a
>fun
> > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s on
the H2
> > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep?
(Besides
>the
> > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving other
>rigs
> > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect. Yeah, we
all
> > > > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne, would
you?
> > > > >
> > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look at an
H-2
>in
> > > > >TX on
> > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards, didnt look
>like
> > > > >it was too
> > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance in the
>middle
> > > > >but none
> > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock ZJ
looks
> > > > >like it has
> > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon, I saw
one
>at
> > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that either
for
> > > > >the price,
> > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied with
my YJ
> > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > :-)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
__________________________________________________ _______________
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> > > >
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> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
> >
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76268 From: Martin Ward <martinida@c...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:33am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2
Hey from this angle it could be a YJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
To: <Joe-CJ7@J...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>;
<arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
> Kia pulling TJ....
>
> (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com oops
> section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from sunday)
>
> Frank
> BadAzXJ@m...
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@J...>
> >To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
> >
> >Frank,
> >
> >Where can I find the pictures?
> >
> >Joe Kearney
> >Joe-CJ7@J...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
> >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> >
> >
> > > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ side......
> > > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> > >
> > > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too bad...... :)
> > > The nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people just
> >say
> > > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I get my
junk
> > > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few good
> >shots
> >of
> > > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from
Sunday).....
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > > >
> > > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig.
> > > >I love my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The H2 woul
d
> >be
> > > >ok
> > > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for free...I'd
> >sell
> >it
> > > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > > >
> > > >Martin
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP magazine
doing
> >the
> > > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand due to
the
> > > >rubicons
> > > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the stupid
IFS,
> >I
> > > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > > >
> > > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday anyway. I have
> >kids
> > > >that
> > > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without worrying about
> > > >people
> > > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear. Plus I
like
> >my
> > > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound system.
> >Before
> > > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will admit that a
> >stock
> > > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and cash into
my
> >rig
> > > >to
> > > > > hang in.
> > > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be too
wide
> >but
> > > >if
> > > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just pull a rock
> >buggy
> > > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never engage the
> >locker
> > > > > anyway)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Frank
> > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A Rubicon
gets
> >31"
> > > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room, probably
> > > > > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also has a
bigger
> > > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably gets more
> > > > > >envious looks (without a single modification) than most Jeeps
that
> > > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really matters...)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except under the
> > > > > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires. That "road
> > > > > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me nauseous. What
a
> > > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a special
> > > > > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit with a lack
> >of
> > > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground up, and
the
> > > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically only
> >upgraded
> > > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and rear
> > > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some badass
> > > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper use of
AL
> > > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would have a hard
> >time
> > > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one? Ever
> >ridden
> > > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I have done
> >all
> > > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2 might be a
> >fun
> > > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s on the
H2
> > > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep? (Besides
> >the
> > > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving other
> >rigs
> > > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect. Yeah, we all
> > > > > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne, would
you?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look at an
H-2
> >in
> > > > > >TX on
> > > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards, didnt look
> >like
> > > > > >it was too
> > > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance in the
> >middle
> > > > > >but none
> > > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock ZJ
looks
> > > > > >like it has
> > > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon, I saw
one
> >at
> > > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that either
for
> > > > > >the price,
> > > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied with my
YJ
> > > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > > :-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
>
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
76269 From: robert_j_rogers2 <robert.rogers@h...> <robert.rogers@h...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:34am
Subject: Table Mesa shooting?
Has the agencies thought about posting the area no shooting during
the clean-up. It would not be fun to "dodge lead" while picking up
the mess. Some of the shooters may not want to stop long enough to
let us clean the target area.
76270 From: BADAZXJ XJArizona <BadAZXJ@m...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:35am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2
nope sorry....2001 TJ. I wont name any names.
Keith..oops I mean
Frank
BadAzXJ@m...
>From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
>To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>,<arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com>,"BADAZXJ
>XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:33:55 -0700
>
>Hey from this angle it could be a YJ
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
>To: <Joe-CJ7@J...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>;
><arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> >
> > Kia pulling TJ....
> >
> > (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com oops
> > section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
>sunday)
> >
> > Frank
> > BadAzXJ@m...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@J...>
> > >To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
> > >
> > >Frank,
> > >
> > >Where can I find the pictures?
> > >
> > >Joe Kearney
> > >Joe-CJ7@J...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ side......
> > > > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> > > >
> > > > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too bad...... :)
> > > > The nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people
>just
> > >say
> > > > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I get my
>junk
> > > > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > > > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few good
> > >shots
> > >of
> > > > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from
>Sunday).....
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
> > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:51 -0700
> > > > >
> > > > >With enough money a Rav4 could become a trail worthy rig.
> > > > >I love my TJ, but after wheeling with 4 XJ's I want one. The H2
>woul
>d
> > >be
> > > > >ok
> > > > >to tow stuff with...but I think if I was given an H2 for free...I'd
> > >sell
> > >it
> > > > >and keep my F250 for that purpose.
> > > > >
> > > > >Martin
> > > > >
> > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > > > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 AM
> > > > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The jeep wins hands down...but to be fair...it is JP magazine
>doing
> > >the
> > > > > > review. The only thing the hummer wins at is in the sand due to
>the
> > > > >rubicons
> > > > > > low gearing. If I had the cash and the H2 didnt have the stupid
>IFS,
> > >I
> > > > > > wouldnt turn it down either........
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But I would take a Cherokee over a wrangler anyday anyway. I
>have
> > >kids
> > > > >that
> > > > > > love to four wheel, plus I can go on a trip without worrying
>about
> > > > >people
> > > > > > jackin my junk or having to pull a trailer with my gear. Plus I
>like
> > >my
> > > > > > music and there isnt much room in a wrangler for a sound system.
> > >Before
> > > > > > everyone gets all crazy comparing XJs to TJ's, I will admit that
>a
> > >stock
> > > > > > cherokee needs some help..but I dumped enough time and cash into
>my
> > >rig
> > > > >to
> > > > > > hang in.
> > > > > > (The H2 seems like a big *** luxury cherokee that might be too
>wide
> > >but
> > > > >if
> > > > > > you have that kind of cash laying around you can just pull a
>rock
> > >buggy
> > > > > > behind you anyway.Most people who buy these will never engage
>the
> > >locker
> > > > > > anyway)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Preparing flame retarding suit..........
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Frank
> > > > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "Lachlan <jeepindog@y...>" <jeepindog@y...>
> > > > > > >To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:13:59 -0000
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A stock H2 comes with 35" tires, doesn't it? A Rubicon
>gets
> > >31"
> > > > > > >rubber. An H2 has a lot more cargo and passenger room,
>probably
> > > > > > >rides a lot less choppy, and has four doors. It also has a
>bigger
> > > > > > >engine than any Wrangler option to date, and probably gets more
> > > > > > >envious looks (without a single modification) than most Jeeps
>that
> > > > > > >are built for bear usually get. (If attention really
>matters...)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Clearance issues are probably about equal, except under
>the
> > > > > > >diffs, where the H2 obviously wins with taller tires. That
>"road
> > > > > > >grader" t-case skidplate on the Rubicon makes me nauseous.
>What
>a
> > > > > > >disappointment. Leave it to DaimlerChrysler to take a special
> > > > > > >project like the Rubicon and screw it up a little bit with a
>lack
> > >of
> > > > > > >attention to detail. The H2 was built from the ground up, and
>the
> > > > > > >Rubicon was adapted from and existing model; basically only
> > >upgraded
> > > > > > >with a beefier t-case with 4:1, front Dana 44, front and rear
> > > > > > >lockers, (the rear being L/S when not locked) and some badass
> > > > > > >aluminum rocker trim. (A definite example of an improper use
>of
>AL
> > > > > > >on a trail Jeep. Now if it had been an AL tierod...) :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If I could choose either one for free, I would have a
>hard
> > >time
> > > > > > >turning the H2 down. "Why?" you ask. Ever sat in one? Ever
> > >ridden
> > > > > > >in one? Ever been offroad in one? Me neither. But I have
>done
> > >all
> > > > > > >of those things in a monster 2.5L Wrangler, and the H2 might be
>a
> > >fun
> > > > > > >alternative. Sure, fabbing a suspension that will ft 38s on
>the
>H2
> > > > > > >would be expensive, but what isn't expensive on a Jeep?
>(Besides
> > >the
> > > > > > >cheap guy driving it?) I think it's time to start giving other
> > >rigs
> > > > > > >that are worthy of their intended use some respect. Yeah, we
>all
> > > > > > >love Jeeps. But I wouldn't turn down a Porsche Cayenne, would
>you?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Lachlan "Variety is the spice of life" MacLean
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, cowboy7575@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > > Well I havent seen the issue yet but I got a good look at an
>H-2
> > >in
> > > > > > >TX on
> > > > > > > > Saturday and with all those fancy running boards, didnt look
> > >like
> > > > > > >it was too
> > > > > > > > trail ready to me........it might have nice clearance in the
> > >middle
> > > > > > >but none
> > > > > > > > to speak of on the sides, hell my soon not to be stock ZJ
>looks
> > > > > > >like it has
> > > > > > > > more clearance on the sides.........as to the Rubicon, I saw
>one
> > >at
> > > > > > >4Wheelers
> > > > > > > > in Phx yesterday and I wasnt that impressed with that either
>for
> > > > > > >the price,
> > > > > > > > but I wouldnd buy one anyway I am perfectly satisfied with
>my
>YJ
> > > > > > >and CJ.
> > > > > > > > :-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
>__________________________________________________ _______________
> > > > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> > > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > > > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
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> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
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> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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> >
> >
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>
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76271 From: Martin Ward <martinida@c...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:37am
Subject: Re: Re: Rubicon VS H2
Nevermind there is another picture on the website ;(
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Ward" <martinida@c...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>; <arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com>; "BADAZXJ
XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> Hey from this angle it could be a YJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> To: <Joe-CJ7@J...>; <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>;
> <arizonaXJ@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
>
>
> >
> > Kia pulling TJ....
> >
> > (if you cant get the attachment, its in the www.azbackcountry.com oops
> > section. And I think there is a link on the azvjc trips page from
sunday)
> >
> > Frank
> > BadAzXJ@m...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Joe Kearney" <Joe-CJ7@J...>
> > >To: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:13:14 -0700
> > >
> > >Frank,
> > >
> > >Where can I find the pictures?
> > >
> > >Joe Kearney
> > >Joe-CJ7@J...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "BADAZXJ XJArizona" <BadAZXJ@m...>
> > >To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:04 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Re: Rubicon VS H2
> > >
> > >
> > > > I have converted quite a few TJ guys over to the XJ side......
> > > > Come wheel with the XJ club some week....you will be too.....
> > > >
> > > > We wheeled with a Kia last week that didnt do too bad...... :)
> > > > The nice thing about a rig like that is if you get stuck..people
just
> > >say
> > > > "what the hell did you expect? its a kia or a rav 4." But I get my
> junk
> > > > stuck....I will never hear the end of it.
> > > > Speaking of which...a TJ got stuck in the mud and we got a few good
> > >shots
> > >of
> > > > the kia trying to pull him out (look at the fr42 pics from
> Sunday).....
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > > BadAzXJ@m...
> > > >