blooddrive
01-07-2004, 09:45 PM
76002-76026
76002 From: highjeeps <highupjeep@q...> <highupjeep@q...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 10:57am
Subject: Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
On the subject of modifying trails to make them easier and that being
the wrong thing to do, can someone explain to me why it was
apparently OK to smooth out the Ledge on the Crown King Trail? How is
that different from modifying any other trail to make it easier? (I
think I may be the only one that still disagrees with that trail
modification).
Thx,
Larry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
76003 From: onebdjeep <onebdjeep@c...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 11:00am
Subject: Re: a call to arms
awesome!!!! i should have checked with my wife first but i am sure there is nothing going on this weekend.
Sean Speer
OneBdJeep (someday!!)
'97 TJ with killer mods to come!!!
(umm... will drink beer for Jeep parts!!!)
----- Original Message -----
From: Stu Olson
To: 'onebdjeep'
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:52 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] a call to arms
When: Meet at 9 AM
Where: West side of Table Mesa exit beyond end of pavement.
Your help will be appreciated, Sean.
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: onebdjeep [mailto:onebdjeep@cox.net]
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:39 AM
To: robert.rogers@cox.net; 'AzVJC'; Stu Olson
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] a call to arms
What are the times my dear friend? you have gained a friend and if you feel that the support will be justified then you can count me in. i can bring my ankle biters out for a coupla extra hands too!
Sean Speer
OneBdJeep (someday!!)
'97 TJ with killer mods to come!!!
(umm... will drink beer for Jeep parts!!!)
----- Original Message -----
From: Stu Olson
To: robert.rogers@cox.net ; 'AzVJC'
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 9:32 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] a call to arms
Well, I think you could call it that.
I want to emphasize the importance of this cleanup! Many of us use the Table Mesa trails to support our Jeep addiction. Without these trails, we would be significantly impacted as far as quality trails within a short drive time from the valley.
So please….set aside a couple of hours this coming Saturday and help out at Table Mesa. I am extending a personal invitation to the folks that ran Tin Can Alley with me just this past Saturday. So the rest of you don’t feel left out, I’ll extend the invite to anyone I’ve ever ran a trail with. And for those of you that haven’t shared a trail with me, please come out and introduce yourself so we aren’t strangers any longer, OK?
The point is, we need to make a strong showing of support and we need to help clean up the area. As they say, many hands make light work.
Let’s blow the land management folks away and overwhelm them with our help!
Thanks and see you on Saturday!
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: AzVJC Website [mailto:azvjc@azvjc.org]
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 3:25 PM
To: AzVJC
Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Cleanup - Saturday, January 25, 2003 - Reminder
Hello All,
Robert (Roy) Rogers is leading a Cleanup trail run on Saturday, January 25, 2003.
When: Meet at 9 AM
Where: West side of Table Mesa exit beyond end of pavement.
Rating: 2.0
Length: unknown
CB Channel: 4
Organized by the Phoenix Four Whelers in cooperation with the Arizona State Land Department (ASLD), the Lake Pleasant Regional Recreation Area (LPRRA), and the Bureau of Land Management (BLM).
The ASLD will provide dumpsters and trash bags, the LPRRA will provida a truck to haul away tires, and the Phoenix Four Wheelers will provide beverages.
any questions contact Ron Karlinsky (623-374-9443)
This trail run is a cleanup effort to help improve our environment and demonstrate our care for the land we use. Read the description for details about where and when. Click on the date below to see the description of the event.
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
76004 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 10:54am
Subject: RE: Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
I can answer that one in a couple of words........... that was WRONG....
I've also found out they did NOT have permission nor were they asked by
Prescott F/S to do this. Just another chapter of what we're talking about
re "rock stacking". "LEAVE MOTHER NATURE TAKE CARE OF HER OWN."
> -----Original Message-----
> From: highjeeps <highupjeep@q...> [mailto:highupjeep@q...]
> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:58 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
>
>
> On the subject of modifying trails to make them easier and that being
> the wrong thing to do, can someone explain to me why it was
> apparently OK to smooth out the Ledge on the Crown King Trail? How is
> that different from modifying any other trail to make it easier? (I
> think I may be the only one that still disagrees with that trail
> modification).
> Thx,
> Larry
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
76005 From: Russell Gevarter <gev39@y...> <gev39@y...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 11:09am
Subject: Anyone contacted TV News for T.M. Clean-up coverage?
Just wondering if there has been any contact with the local news
stations to see if they will come out and give us some TV coverage.
Most folks have no idea that OHVers participate in this type of
event, or be aware that a dumping problem even exists.
I think it would be awesome to show the general public our efforts.
Russ
76006 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 11:16am
Subject: RE: Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
Larry,
The fact that some moron did it does NOT mean it was the right thing to
do.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: highjeeps <highupjeep@q...> [mailto:highupjeep@q...]
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:58 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
On the subject of modifying trails to make them easier and that being
the wrong thing to do, can someone explain to me why it was
apparently OK to smooth out the Ledge on the Crown King Trail? How is
that different from modifying any other trail to make it easier? (I
think I may be the only one that still disagrees with that trail
modification).
Thx,
Larry
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76007 From: onebdjeep <onebdjeep@c...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 11:37am
Subject: Re: Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
I agree that this modification should not have been done. If your rig can't
handle the obstacle get the hell away then! There is no need to deface
nature because you were ill prepared. "Tread Lightly" not "Tread Lightly and
screw things up for everyone so you don't have to spend the money you sorry
good for nothin butt-munch!!!" How would they like it if we all got together
and ran over their face because we did not like the look of their nose? Does
that justify? I don't think so.
To those who insist on ruining trails and making our sport more difficult to
have fun with.... i give you 3 single finger salutes!
Sean Speer
OneBdJeep (someday!!)
'97 TJ with killer mods to come!!!
(umm... will drink beer for Jeep parts!!!)
----- Original Message -----
From: <highupjeep@q...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:57 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
> On the subject of modifying trails to make them easier and that being
> the wrong thing to do, can someone explain to me why it was
> apparently OK to smooth out the Ledge on the Crown King Trail? How is
> that different from modifying any other trail to make it easier? (I
> think I may be the only one that still disagrees with that trail
> modification).
> Thx,
> Larry
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
76008 From: Richard Logan <rlogan@d...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 0:17pm
Subject: RE: Rockstacking etc etc
Well here is my .02 worth. I got into this sport to have fun learn my skills, jeep etc and go at What Mother Nature has to offer, I have always been that way hiking, Mountain biking etc and always tread lightly, pick up other peoples trash on the way etc. Now jeeping. When I first got my first jeep it was stock after I put my first little lift on I had the common sense not to go do 4 or 4.5 etc because 2 reasons I was not equipped to do so and would have to stack or hold people up break etc, over time I have built my rig and have done trails within its and my limits. I have been on trails where they recommend lockers front rear, winch etc and you always seem to have someone who thinks they can make it who is just barely over a stock jeep and stack rocks and I am not talking throwing a couple up under tires etc. When you talk to people like Todd and others who have been in the sport quite awhile the trails have been destroyed for people who like to do extreme crawling and are set up for it, stick to the trail so that you are set up for and move up in rating as your skill and jeep dictate do not trash the trails. Things happen in the most built rigs but play on cautions side. we have trail lists that have a good guideline if it says winch have a winch. lockers have lockers 35in tires you get the point. there are plenty of trails in az, nm ut etc of every rating and have permits where required spill oil clean it keep trash bags pick it up in your group even if it is not a club sponsored event. I guess common sense and caring about the land and others should be a priorty. Jeep on
Rick 92 YJ
76009 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 0:15pm
Subject: [FS] NEED RADIATOR FOR 98 TJ
Price:
Contact: j2m2t2@cox.net
Darren Boisvert
76010 From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...> <tomasr@a...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 0:32pm
Subject: Re: a call to arms
Also, last year there was a sign-in sheet where you could list your
name as well as your club affiliation(s). Assuming they have this
again this year, please make sure to enter your AZVJC affiliation. I
don't know if this information will go anywhere but, just in case it
does, we might earn some (more) good publicity. Thanks!
-Roger
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Well, I think you could call it that.
>
> I want to emphasize the importance of this cleanup! Many of us use
the
> Table Mesa trails to support our Jeep addiction. Without these
trails,
> we would be significantly impacted as far as quality trails within a
> short drive time from the valley.
>
> So please..set aside a couple of hours this coming Saturday and
help out
> at Table Mesa. I am extending a personal invitation to the folks
that
> ran Tin Can Alley with me just this past Saturday. So the rest of
you
> don't feel left out, I'll extend the invite to anyone I've ever ran
a
> trail with. And for those of you that haven't shared a trail with
me,
> please come out and introduce yourself so we aren't strangers any
> longer, OK?
>
> The point is, we need to make a strong showing of support and we
need to
> help clean up the area. As they say, many hands make light work.
>
> Let's blow the land management folks away and overwhelm them with
our
> help!
>
> Thanks and see you on Saturday!
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AzVJC Website [mailto:azvjc@a...]
> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 3:25 PM
> To: AzVJC
> Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Cleanup - Saturday, January 25, 2003 -
Reminder
>
> Hello All,
> Robert (Roy) Rogers is leading a Cleanup trail run on Saturday,
January
> 25, 2003.
>
> When: Meet at 9 AM
> Where: West side of Table Mesa exit beyond end of pavement.
> Rating: 2.0
> Length: unknown
> CB Channel: 4
>
> Organized by the Phoenix Four Whelers in cooperation with the
Arizona
> State Land Department (ASLD), the Lake Pleasant Regional Recreation
Area
> (LPRRA), and the Bureau of Land Management (BLM).
>
>
>
> The ASLD will provide dumpsters and trash bags, the LPRRA will
provida a
> truck to haul away tires, and the Phoenix Four Wheelers will provide
> beverages.
>
>
>
> any questions contact Ron Karlinsky (623-374-9443)
>
> This trail run is a cleanup effort to help improve our environment
and
> demonstrate our care for the land we use. Read the description for
> details about where and when. Click on the date below to see the
> description of the event.
>
> Click Here To Add <http://www.azvjc.org/default.asp?A=1&ID=654>
Your
> Name to the Sign Up List
> Thank You,
>
> - The AzVJC Website
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
76011 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 0:35pm
Subject: RE: Re: a call to arms
I'm certain they will again have a "sign=in" sheet and yes....... do note
AZVJC.
This list probably doesn't "go" anywhere but the land agencies see it and
recognize WHO was in attendance as will as whatever media they are able to
get out there.
S.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...> [mailto:tomasr@a...]
> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 1:33 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: a call to arms
>
>
> Also, last year there was a sign-in sheet where you could list your
> name as well as your club affiliation(s). Assuming they have this
> again this year, please make sure to enter your AZVJC affiliation. I
> don't know if this information will go anywhere but, just in case it
> does, we might earn some (more) good publicity. Thanks!
>
> -Roger
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> > Well, I think you could call it that.
> >
> > I want to emphasize the importance of this cleanup! Many of us use
> the
> > Table Mesa trails to support our Jeep addiction. Without these
> trails,
> > we would be significantly impacted as far as quality trails within a
> > short drive time from the valley.
> >
> > So please..set aside a couple of hours this coming Saturday and
> help out
> > at Table Mesa. I am extending a personal invitation to the folks
> that
> > ran Tin Can Alley with me just this past Saturday. So the rest of
> you
> > don't feel left out, I'll extend the invite to anyone I've ever ran
> a
> > trail with. And for those of you that haven't shared a trail with
> me,
> > please come out and introduce yourself so we aren't strangers any
> > longer, OK?
> >
> > The point is, we need to make a strong showing of support and we
> need to
> > help clean up the area. As they say, many hands make light work.
> >
> > Let's blow the land management folks away and overwhelm them with
> our
> > help!
> >
> > Thanks and see you on Saturday!
> >
> > Stu
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AzVJC Website [mailto:azvjc@a...]
> > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 3:25 PM
> > To: AzVJC
> > Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Cleanup - Saturday, January 25, 2003 -
> Reminder
> >
> > Hello All,
> > Robert (Roy) Rogers is leading a Cleanup trail run on Saturday,
> January
> > 25, 2003.
> >
> > When: Meet at 9 AM
> > Where: West side of Table Mesa exit beyond end of pavement.
> > Rating: 2.0
> > Length: unknown
> > CB Channel: 4
> >
> > Organized by the Phoenix Four Whelers in cooperation with the
> Arizona
> > State Land Department (ASLD), the Lake Pleasant Regional Recreation
> Area
> > (LPRRA), and the Bureau of Land Management (BLM).
> >
> >
> >
> > The ASLD will provide dumpsters and trash bags, the LPRRA will
> provida a
> > truck to haul away tires, and the Phoenix Four Wheelers will provide
> > beverages.
> >
> >
> >
> > any questions contact Ron Karlinsky (623-374-9443)
> >
> > This trail run is a cleanup effort to help improve our environment
> and
> > demonstrate our care for the land we use. Read the description for
> > details about where and when. Click on the date below to see the
> > description of the event.
> >
> > Click Here To Add <http://www.azvjc.org/default.asp?A=1&ID=654>
> Your
> > Name to the Sign Up List
> > Thank You,
> >
> > - The AzVJC Website
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
76012 From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...> <tomasr@a...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 0:52pm
Subject: Re: Anyone contacted TV News for T.M. Clean-up coverage?
I emailed Kurt Loga of the Phoenix 4 Wheelers and asked him if the
media has been contacted. I'll let you all konw once I hear back
from him. If they have not contacted the media, does someone here
want to take on that task? Anyone with connections to the media?
-Roger
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Gevarter <gev39@y...>"
<gev39@y...> wrote:
> Just wondering if there has been any contact with the local news
> stations to see if they will come out and give us some TV coverage.
> Most folks have no idea that OHVers participate in this type of
> event, or be aware that a dumping problem even exists.
> I think it would be awesome to show the general public our efforts.
> Russ
76013 From: onebdjeep <onebdjeep@c...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 1:01pm
Subject: Re: RE: Rockstacking etc etc
Good post!!!!
Sean Speer
OneBdJeep (someday!!)
'97 TJ with killer mods to come!!!
(umm... will drink beer for Jeep parts!!!)
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Logan
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 1:17 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] RE: Rockstacking etc etc
Well here is my .02 worth. I got into this sport to have fun learn my skills, jeep etc and go at What Mother Nature has to offer, I have always been that way hiking, Mountain biking etc and always tread lightly, pick up other peoples trash on the way etc. Now jeeping. When I first got my first jeep it was stock after I put my first little lift on I had the common sense not to go do 4 or 4.5 etc because 2 reasons I was not equipped to do so and would have to stack or hold people up break etc, over time I have built my rig and have done trails within its and my limits. I have been on trails where they recommend lockers front rear, winch etc and you always seem to have someone who thinks they can make it who is just barely over a stock jeep and stack rocks and I am not talking throwing a couple up under tires etc. When you talk to people like Todd and others who have been in the sport quite awhile the trails have been destroyed for people who like to do extreme crawling and are set up for it, stick to the trail so that you are set up for and move up in rating as your skill and jeep dictate do not trash the trails. Things happen in the most built rigs but play on cautions side. we have trail lists that have a good guideline if it says winch have a winch. lockers have lockers 35in tires you get the point. there are plenty of trails in az, nm ut etc of every rating and have permits where required spill oil clean it keep trash bags pick it up in your group even if it is not a club sponsored event. I guess common sense and caring about the land and others should be a priorty. Jeep on
Rick 92 YJ
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
76014 From: highjeeps <highupjeep@q...> <highupjeep@q...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 1:03pm
Subject: Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
Stu (and all),
I bring this up because it is my recollection that it was the pretty
much the consensus of the group (or at least of those posting
opinions at the time) once it was identified who it was that did the
modifying and why it was done, that it was then somehow justified.
When it was first posted that the ledge had been smoothed out, pretty
much everyone expressed outrage (me too), then that seemed to change
acceptance for that particular case (not me).
At least that was my take on it.
Larry
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Larry,
>
> The fact that some moron did it does NOT mean it was the right
thing to
> do.
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: highjeeps <highupjeep@q...> [mailto:highupjeep@q...]
> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:58 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
>
> On the subject of modifying trails to make them easier and that
being
> the wrong thing to do, can someone explain to me why it was
> apparently OK to smooth out the Ledge on the Crown King Trail? How
is
> that different from modifying any other trail to make it easier? (I
> think I may be the only one that still disagrees with that trail
> modification).
> Thx,
> Larry
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76015 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 1:36pm
Subject: Table Mesa Maps
To all that attended the Phoenix BLM mapping meeting and did not get a map
and to those that use the trails in the Table Mesa area:
I have maps and two CD's of the inventoried area............. please let me
know WHO needs these maps so I can get them to you. We don't have much time
to get our GPS coordinances to Phoenix BLM. We need to review the maps and
(if possible) identify that our trails are on the maps......... It looks
like our best bet is to give them GPS points for ALL of what we do and let
them figure out whether these are on the inventory............... the
spiderweb of routes is unbelievable. The major routes out there we don't
need to do anything with............. it's mostly the "rock base washes"
that the Enterprise Team are unable to identify OR the trails (which are
most) a motorcycle cannot traverse....
GPS coordinances for the trailheads are important!
Don't stop now............. if we back out now, we lose EVERYTHING.
Sandee
76016 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:01pm
Subject: [FS] D-35c shafts (1 pair) plus carrier
Price: $60 for all
Contact: Russell Gevarter 623-465-2939
OEM Dana 35c axle shafts from a YJ, will also fit TJ
Carrier &; spider gears for 3.07-3.73 (YJ)
Get your spares before you break on the trail!
Russell Gevarter
76017 From: John Stewart <landuse@u...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:11pm
Subject: Fwd: MUST READ: Editorial: Control of Land Use is Outrageous
I encourage every one to take the time to read the below article.
Then, look around your community (or your favorite recreation area)
and see if you can find a similar instance.
Wolf re-introduction, grizzly bear re-introduction, desert tortoise
recovery, Florida Panther recovery, Black-footed Ferret recovery,
Red-legged Frog recovery, Arroyo Toad, Milk Vetch, Fringe-Tailed
Lizard, Flat-Tailed Horned Lizard.
The list goes on and on.
This, ladies and gentlemen, is the real threat to recreation
opportunities. With these listings comes habitat protection.
From: "Judy Keeler" <jfkeeler@v...>
To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
Subject: MUST READ: Editorial: Control of Land Use is Outrageous
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:09:24 -0800
X-Priority: 3
Here's one that will rock your boat if you think the Wildlands
Project isn't being implemented in our nation!
We (the Public Land Advisory Committee) were told the same thing,
"that's the way it is, so get over it!" by Bruce Palmer, U.S. Fish
and Wildlife biologist, when we questioned why the agency decided to
designate Hidalgo County as "occupied range" and the Peloncillo
Mountains as "occupied habitat" (55% private property per TNC) for
the jaguar. Even though there has been only 3 sighting of jaguars
in our area over a period of 100 years we get designated as
"occupied"? Go figure!
Keep in mind the Service is not calling it "critical habitat"
as defined in the Endangered Species Act, because they could never
justify Arizona and New Mexico as being "critical to the survival of
the species". No, Fish and Wildlife coined a whole new term for our
area. Aren't we special??
And, for what purpose are they mapping the two states for "occupied"
jaguars habitat/range? Could it be to satisfy the Wildlands
proponents that are going to use "focal species such as Mexican
wolves, jaguars, mountain lions, black bears, elk, and northern
goshawks" as reasons for Congress and/or other federal agencies to
include an area into the Wildlands Project's proposals??
It's time to wake up and smell the coffee. We've got to get a handle
on the nongovernmental organizations (NGOs) that are spurring this
horse onward. One way is to insist NO FEDERAL GRANTS be given to
NGOs. If they can't muster the money from their membership, why
should the taxpayers foot the bill to cut their own throat? Another
is to amend the ESA so economic impacts must be addressed and new
words can't be coined to justify more "takings" of private land.
The stock market down turn has already hurt the NGO's conflict
industry. If we can get our congressmen and women to follow suit,
then we might all begin to play on a level field.
Judy K.
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Fw: MUST READ: Editorial: Control of Land Use is Outrageous
This is a good one for our skeptical representatives and editors...
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:peasley@g...>Paula Easley
Control of land use is outrageous
By Paula Easley
Comment
(Published: December 30, 2002)
"That's the way it is," I was told, "so get over it." The topic was
the effects of critical habitat designations for the fairy shrimp on
local livelihoods, property rights, housing costs and county
revenues. Life as my rural California friends knew it would never be
the same; 78 percent of the habitat was privately owned.
Well, I don't want to get over it. Losing our capacity for outrage
that such destructive situations can be legal in a democratic
republic is, to me, immoral. Maybe our outrage genes are being bred
away by secret government modifications to the food supply. For sure
we've been brainwashed to support anything for "the environment,"
even financing a 1.7 million-acre government-managed subdivision for
these pond-loving crustaceans. Not to mention the grand lifestyles of
the red-legged frog and Delhi Sands fly.
It is not about saving species. "Government control of private land
to 'protect' species of weeds and bugs is a feel-good mask that hides
the sinister effect of transforming America into a socialist nation,"
author Joseph Farah explains. Surely "abolish private property" and
"control the means of production" must ring a bell. By not being
outraged over government's rampant acquisition and control of private
land, we are unwitting accomplices to the perpetrators.
The Endangered Species Act may be the supreme land confiscation tool,
but the movement employs other policy and regulatory tools, including
intimidation and extortion. They are expertly applied to fight
technological progress, uses of mechanized equipment and vehicles,
choices for housing and transportation, digging materials from the
earth, transforming trees into products, ranching and grazing,
irrigation, multiple uses of public land, dams and reservoirs,
agricultural chemicals, new roads anywhere, anything "unnatural."
The Wildlands Project, once deemed a laughable, insane proposal to
herd humans into cities and return virtually all rural lands to
wildlife and "nature," gains ground from the Klamath Basin to the
Florida Everglades. Its wealthy sponsors cooperated with Congress and
bureaucrats to create the framework, and all three now fund state and
local groups -- and candidates -- to implement it.
Land targeted for development becomes "the last of its kind,"
"fragile" or "sacred," adjectives loosely applicable to anything.
Stories about the resulting conflicts omit that humans occupy less
than 3 percent of our land or that governments already "own" more
than 40 percent of it and control much, much more through regulation.
Author Linda Bowles, in her article "Environmental Marxism," suggests
today's land-takeover abuses occur because of limited coverage by the
mainstream media rather than "a fatalistic American submission to
state socialism. One fears that only in retrospect, when it is too
late to resist, will it be understood that freedoms have been
irretrievably forfeited and the Constitution irreversibly abandoned."
The situation should concern each of us. Today, more than half the
states face massive budget deficits. During the prosperous 1990s, the
president, Congress and governors appropriated millions of acres to
"nature," restricting resource extraction and traditional multiple
uses. Except for President Clinton's last-minute land
reclassifications, I suspect few of those leaders thought the
restrictive policies of that decade could so effectively stifle
economic progress in this one. Paralyzed by "citizen lawsuits" and
other public processes, it is finally registering with state policy
leaders that land, freedom and human ingenuity are essential
components of all new wealth creation.
Frank Gladics, with the Senate Energy and Natural Resources
Committee, shared some research at a policy analysts meeting last
winter. Scrutinizing national data, his fears about rural natural
resource and food-producing counties, those most affected by the
"protect-everything" agenda, were substantiated. They contain the
nation's highest unemployment rates, the highest poverty rates, and
the poorest schools. That these rates occurred in counties with the
most federal land, including Alaska's boroughs, was not surprising.
It is ironic that so many liberals, self-proclaimed champions of the
poor and downtrodden, have switched allegiance. They now profess
their mission is to save nature and species, preaching that humans
should not have dominion over the earth and its creatures; we are no
more, no less, important than a fly or a cave beetle. Paganism, here
we come.
Property has always diffused power. Your worst nightmare is for
someone with nothing to lose to gain control over it. There is no
shortage of people who have well-meaning ideas for using and managing
your property for "the greater good." Do not let them.
Paula Easley is a public policy consultant and former executive
director of the Resource Development Council of Alaska.
--
John Stewart
Director, Environmental Affairs, UFWDA, http://www.ufwda.org
Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
Webmaster, Tierra del Sol 4x4: http://www.tds4x4.com
Webmaster, Jeep-L: http://www.jeep-l.net
76018 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:16pm
Subject: [FS] Jeep parts...
Price: make ofder
Contact: Bill@ 928-774-6024
Bill Ragan
76019 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:16pm
Subject: [FS] Hi pinion D-30 (housing & knuckles only, driver-side pumpkin)
Price: Make offer
Contact: Russell Gevarter 623-465-2939
This is from an early YJ (pre 1990) includes carrier, 3.07 R&P;, inner disco shaft, vacuum motor and 2-piece knuckles.
SOA-ready. No shafts hubs or brakes.
Russell Gevarter
76020 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:22pm
Subject: [FS] 90-93 Renegade bumpers (YJ)
Price: Make Offer
Contact: Russell Gevarter 623-465-2939
These are complete OEM plastic bumpers from a 92 Renegade YJ. The front is nearly perfect condition, Rear has some scratches, but is in good condition. They are blue.
Russell Gevarter
76021 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:23pm
Subject: [FS] WANTED; 5 or 10 lb air (Co2) tank w/or without regulator
Price: fair
Contact: Bernie VanBenthem
Looking for a small 5-10 lb tank to fill my tires with. I'm to cheap and impatient to buy or wait for a small compressor to do the job!
Bernie
Bernie Van Benthem
76022 From: Darren Richards <darren.richards@m...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:25pm
Subject: Re: [FS] Jeep parts...
I'll give you $1.99. I hope it's something good.
-darren
AzVJC Website wrote:
> Price: make ofder
>
> Contact: Bill@ 928-774-6024
>
>
>
> Bill Ragan
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
76023 From: Trujillo, Jeff <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:08pm
Subject: RE: [FS] Jeep parts...
I bid $2 even. Hope its for an XJ! LOL
Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice:(480)346-6249
Fax:(480)346-6813
-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Richards [mailto:darren.richards@m...]
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 3:25 PM
To: wragan@u...
Cc: AzVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] [FS] Jeep parts...
I'll give you $1.99. I hope it's something good.
-darren
AzVJC Website wrote:
> Price: make ofder
>
> Contact: Bill@ 928-774-6024
>
>
>
> Bill Ragan
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient or employees of
MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
76024 From: Scott Legge <scottleggejr@h...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:28pm
Subject: Re: [FS] Jeep parts...
I got $2.00 I hope its good too!
Scott Legge
>From: Darren Richards <darren.richards@m...>
>To: wragan@u...
>CC: AzVJC <az_vjc@YahooGroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] [FS] Jeep parts...
>Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:25:28 -0700
>
>I'll give you $1.99. I hope it's something good.
>
>-darren
>
>AzVJC Website wrote:
>
> > Price: make ofder
> >
> > Contact: Bill@ 928-774-6024
> >
> >
> >
> > Bill Ragan
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
__________________________________________________ _______________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
76025 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:30pm
Subject: [FS] Jeep parts...
Price: make offer
Contact: Bill@ 928-774-6024
More garage cleaning...
Here's what I have:
Dana 30 carrier for 3:73 and up
Skyjacker adjustable trackbar, fits XJ w/5" lift+
XJ rear swaybar
4 near-new 225s on OEM wheels from 2001 XJ
doughnut spare from XJ
Stock TJ airbox w/filter from '97 2.5L
various seatbelts from YJ/late CJ
aftermarket CJ shackles, 1" lift front and 1/2" lift rear, heavy-duty, gold anodized, non-greaseable
2 new gerry cans with spout and mounts.
I know what this stuff is worth, so be fair...
My email is wragan@uneedspeed.net
Bill Ragan
76026 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 3:08pm
Subject: [TR] Trip Report - FR-42 - Sunday, January 19, 2003
Hello All,
Chris Benner lead a trail run Sunday, January 19, 2003 across FR-42
We had 9 people meet at carefree highway. We got to the paystation by 11am.A couple more people met up with us. We aired down, disconnected and were rolling at 11:30. This was the first trip that I was able to use my GPS with. I misread a turn and took us on the side trip down by the river. A nice fun sand hill to play on. No one got stuck in the sand thankfully. although there was a nice looking mud puddle on the shadowed side of a huge rock.
Keith dipped his front tires into the mud and it didn't seem to deep, then suddenly it was VERY deep and not quite mud but rather CLAY. Steve jumped in and tried to pull him out but that made it worse. Several people tried to pull him out and we ended up pulling him in deeper. Two people had winches. Koko tried his winch with two anchors behind him, no luck. Jim had to get his winch into the mix also. It took two winches and 3 anchors to pull poor keith out of the clay.
Got back on track, stopped by the river and played a little. Keith, rick, myself and two others crossed the river without any problems. There was a little mud in the area, a lot of us were able to give ourselves a new paintjob with it.
Continued the trail, no major issues. we opted to not run spare tire canyon since we had a couple stock vehicles in the mix.
We got to 2nd river spot and took a break at the northern side of the river. The water looked pretty deep. Two people gave it a shot. The white bronco had no issues. The green ford made it accrosed also. They had to run it twice since no one else wanted to try it.
On the way home via indian springs wash, the green ford blew his tranny and lost a lot of fluid. His buddy ended up pulling him to the pavement. where he drove it home.. I didn't see him on the side of the road anywhere so I assume he made it.
Fun trip, we'll do it again.. NEXT WEEK, desoto mine 4.0 trail. Meeting at the same time and place.
Click Here to View Pictures (if available)
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
76002 From: highjeeps <highupjeep@q...> <highupjeep@q...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 10:57am
Subject: Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
On the subject of modifying trails to make them easier and that being
the wrong thing to do, can someone explain to me why it was
apparently OK to smooth out the Ledge on the Crown King Trail? How is
that different from modifying any other trail to make it easier? (I
think I may be the only one that still disagrees with that trail
modification).
Thx,
Larry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
76003 From: onebdjeep <onebdjeep@c...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 11:00am
Subject: Re: a call to arms
awesome!!!! i should have checked with my wife first but i am sure there is nothing going on this weekend.
Sean Speer
OneBdJeep (someday!!)
'97 TJ with killer mods to come!!!
(umm... will drink beer for Jeep parts!!!)
----- Original Message -----
From: Stu Olson
To: 'onebdjeep'
Cc: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:52 AM
Subject: RE: [az_vjc] a call to arms
When: Meet at 9 AM
Where: West side of Table Mesa exit beyond end of pavement.
Your help will be appreciated, Sean.
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: onebdjeep [mailto:onebdjeep@cox.net]
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:39 AM
To: robert.rogers@cox.net; 'AzVJC'; Stu Olson
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] a call to arms
What are the times my dear friend? you have gained a friend and if you feel that the support will be justified then you can count me in. i can bring my ankle biters out for a coupla extra hands too!
Sean Speer
OneBdJeep (someday!!)
'97 TJ with killer mods to come!!!
(umm... will drink beer for Jeep parts!!!)
----- Original Message -----
From: Stu Olson
To: robert.rogers@cox.net ; 'AzVJC'
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 9:32 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] a call to arms
Well, I think you could call it that.
I want to emphasize the importance of this cleanup! Many of us use the Table Mesa trails to support our Jeep addiction. Without these trails, we would be significantly impacted as far as quality trails within a short drive time from the valley.
So please….set aside a couple of hours this coming Saturday and help out at Table Mesa. I am extending a personal invitation to the folks that ran Tin Can Alley with me just this past Saturday. So the rest of you don’t feel left out, I’ll extend the invite to anyone I’ve ever ran a trail with. And for those of you that haven’t shared a trail with me, please come out and introduce yourself so we aren’t strangers any longer, OK?
The point is, we need to make a strong showing of support and we need to help clean up the area. As they say, many hands make light work.
Let’s blow the land management folks away and overwhelm them with our help!
Thanks and see you on Saturday!
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: AzVJC Website [mailto:azvjc@azvjc.org]
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 3:25 PM
To: AzVJC
Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Cleanup - Saturday, January 25, 2003 - Reminder
Hello All,
Robert (Roy) Rogers is leading a Cleanup trail run on Saturday, January 25, 2003.
When: Meet at 9 AM
Where: West side of Table Mesa exit beyond end of pavement.
Rating: 2.0
Length: unknown
CB Channel: 4
Organized by the Phoenix Four Whelers in cooperation with the Arizona State Land Department (ASLD), the Lake Pleasant Regional Recreation Area (LPRRA), and the Bureau of Land Management (BLM).
The ASLD will provide dumpsters and trash bags, the LPRRA will provida a truck to haul away tires, and the Phoenix Four Wheelers will provide beverages.
any questions contact Ron Karlinsky (623-374-9443)
This trail run is a cleanup effort to help improve our environment and demonstrate our care for the land we use. Read the description for details about where and when. Click on the date below to see the description of the event.
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
76004 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 10:54am
Subject: RE: Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
I can answer that one in a couple of words........... that was WRONG....
I've also found out they did NOT have permission nor were they asked by
Prescott F/S to do this. Just another chapter of what we're talking about
re "rock stacking". "LEAVE MOTHER NATURE TAKE CARE OF HER OWN."
> -----Original Message-----
> From: highjeeps <highupjeep@q...> [mailto:highupjeep@q...]
> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:58 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
>
>
> On the subject of modifying trails to make them easier and that being
> the wrong thing to do, can someone explain to me why it was
> apparently OK to smooth out the Ledge on the Crown King Trail? How is
> that different from modifying any other trail to make it easier? (I
> think I may be the only one that still disagrees with that trail
> modification).
> Thx,
> Larry
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
76005 From: Russell Gevarter <gev39@y...> <gev39@y...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 11:09am
Subject: Anyone contacted TV News for T.M. Clean-up coverage?
Just wondering if there has been any contact with the local news
stations to see if they will come out and give us some TV coverage.
Most folks have no idea that OHVers participate in this type of
event, or be aware that a dumping problem even exists.
I think it would be awesome to show the general public our efforts.
Russ
76006 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 11:16am
Subject: RE: Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
Larry,
The fact that some moron did it does NOT mean it was the right thing to
do.
Stu
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: highjeeps <highupjeep@q...> [mailto:highupjeep@q...]
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:58 AM
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
On the subject of modifying trails to make them easier and that being
the wrong thing to do, can someone explain to me why it was
apparently OK to smooth out the Ledge on the Crown King Trail? How is
that different from modifying any other trail to make it easier? (I
think I may be the only one that still disagrees with that trail
modification).
Thx,
Larry
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76007 From: onebdjeep <onebdjeep@c...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 11:37am
Subject: Re: Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
I agree that this modification should not have been done. If your rig can't
handle the obstacle get the hell away then! There is no need to deface
nature because you were ill prepared. "Tread Lightly" not "Tread Lightly and
screw things up for everyone so you don't have to spend the money you sorry
good for nothin butt-munch!!!" How would they like it if we all got together
and ran over their face because we did not like the look of their nose? Does
that justify? I don't think so.
To those who insist on ruining trails and making our sport more difficult to
have fun with.... i give you 3 single finger salutes!
Sean Speer
OneBdJeep (someday!!)
'97 TJ with killer mods to come!!!
(umm... will drink beer for Jeep parts!!!)
----- Original Message -----
From: <highupjeep@q...>
To: <az_vjc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:57 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
> On the subject of modifying trails to make them easier and that being
> the wrong thing to do, can someone explain to me why it was
> apparently OK to smooth out the Ledge on the Crown King Trail? How is
> that different from modifying any other trail to make it easier? (I
> think I may be the only one that still disagrees with that trail
> modification).
> Thx,
> Larry
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
76008 From: Richard Logan <rlogan@d...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 0:17pm
Subject: RE: Rockstacking etc etc
Well here is my .02 worth. I got into this sport to have fun learn my skills, jeep etc and go at What Mother Nature has to offer, I have always been that way hiking, Mountain biking etc and always tread lightly, pick up other peoples trash on the way etc. Now jeeping. When I first got my first jeep it was stock after I put my first little lift on I had the common sense not to go do 4 or 4.5 etc because 2 reasons I was not equipped to do so and would have to stack or hold people up break etc, over time I have built my rig and have done trails within its and my limits. I have been on trails where they recommend lockers front rear, winch etc and you always seem to have someone who thinks they can make it who is just barely over a stock jeep and stack rocks and I am not talking throwing a couple up under tires etc. When you talk to people like Todd and others who have been in the sport quite awhile the trails have been destroyed for people who like to do extreme crawling and are set up for it, stick to the trail so that you are set up for and move up in rating as your skill and jeep dictate do not trash the trails. Things happen in the most built rigs but play on cautions side. we have trail lists that have a good guideline if it says winch have a winch. lockers have lockers 35in tires you get the point. there are plenty of trails in az, nm ut etc of every rating and have permits where required spill oil clean it keep trash bags pick it up in your group even if it is not a club sponsored event. I guess common sense and caring about the land and others should be a priorty. Jeep on
Rick 92 YJ
76009 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 0:15pm
Subject: [FS] NEED RADIATOR FOR 98 TJ
Price:
Contact: j2m2t2@cox.net
Darren Boisvert
76010 From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...> <tomasr@a...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 0:32pm
Subject: Re: a call to arms
Also, last year there was a sign-in sheet where you could list your
name as well as your club affiliation(s). Assuming they have this
again this year, please make sure to enter your AZVJC affiliation. I
don't know if this information will go anywhere but, just in case it
does, we might earn some (more) good publicity. Thanks!
-Roger
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Well, I think you could call it that.
>
> I want to emphasize the importance of this cleanup! Many of us use
the
> Table Mesa trails to support our Jeep addiction. Without these
trails,
> we would be significantly impacted as far as quality trails within a
> short drive time from the valley.
>
> So please..set aside a couple of hours this coming Saturday and
help out
> at Table Mesa. I am extending a personal invitation to the folks
that
> ran Tin Can Alley with me just this past Saturday. So the rest of
you
> don't feel left out, I'll extend the invite to anyone I've ever ran
a
> trail with. And for those of you that haven't shared a trail with
me,
> please come out and introduce yourself so we aren't strangers any
> longer, OK?
>
> The point is, we need to make a strong showing of support and we
need to
> help clean up the area. As they say, many hands make light work.
>
> Let's blow the land management folks away and overwhelm them with
our
> help!
>
> Thanks and see you on Saturday!
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AzVJC Website [mailto:azvjc@a...]
> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 3:25 PM
> To: AzVJC
> Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Cleanup - Saturday, January 25, 2003 -
Reminder
>
> Hello All,
> Robert (Roy) Rogers is leading a Cleanup trail run on Saturday,
January
> 25, 2003.
>
> When: Meet at 9 AM
> Where: West side of Table Mesa exit beyond end of pavement.
> Rating: 2.0
> Length: unknown
> CB Channel: 4
>
> Organized by the Phoenix Four Whelers in cooperation with the
Arizona
> State Land Department (ASLD), the Lake Pleasant Regional Recreation
Area
> (LPRRA), and the Bureau of Land Management (BLM).
>
>
>
> The ASLD will provide dumpsters and trash bags, the LPRRA will
provida a
> truck to haul away tires, and the Phoenix Four Wheelers will provide
> beverages.
>
>
>
> any questions contact Ron Karlinsky (623-374-9443)
>
> This trail run is a cleanup effort to help improve our environment
and
> demonstrate our care for the land we use. Read the description for
> details about where and when. Click on the date below to see the
> description of the event.
>
> Click Here To Add <http://www.azvjc.org/default.asp?A=1&ID=654>
Your
> Name to the Sign Up List
> Thank You,
>
> - The AzVJC Website
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
76011 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 0:35pm
Subject: RE: Re: a call to arms
I'm certain they will again have a "sign=in" sheet and yes....... do note
AZVJC.
This list probably doesn't "go" anywhere but the land agencies see it and
recognize WHO was in attendance as will as whatever media they are able to
get out there.
S.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...> [mailto:tomasr@a...]
> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 1:33 PM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: a call to arms
>
>
> Also, last year there was a sign-in sheet where you could list your
> name as well as your club affiliation(s). Assuming they have this
> again this year, please make sure to enter your AZVJC affiliation. I
> don't know if this information will go anywhere but, just in case it
> does, we might earn some (more) good publicity. Thanks!
>
> -Roger
>
> --- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> > Well, I think you could call it that.
> >
> > I want to emphasize the importance of this cleanup! Many of us use
> the
> > Table Mesa trails to support our Jeep addiction. Without these
> trails,
> > we would be significantly impacted as far as quality trails within a
> > short drive time from the valley.
> >
> > So please..set aside a couple of hours this coming Saturday and
> help out
> > at Table Mesa. I am extending a personal invitation to the folks
> that
> > ran Tin Can Alley with me just this past Saturday. So the rest of
> you
> > don't feel left out, I'll extend the invite to anyone I've ever ran
> a
> > trail with. And for those of you that haven't shared a trail with
> me,
> > please come out and introduce yourself so we aren't strangers any
> > longer, OK?
> >
> > The point is, we need to make a strong showing of support and we
> need to
> > help clean up the area. As they say, many hands make light work.
> >
> > Let's blow the land management folks away and overwhelm them with
> our
> > help!
> >
> > Thanks and see you on Saturday!
> >
> > Stu
> >
> > Stu Olson
> > www.stu-offroad.com
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AzVJC Website [mailto:azvjc@a...]
> > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 3:25 PM
> > To: AzVJC
> > Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Cleanup - Saturday, January 25, 2003 -
> Reminder
> >
> > Hello All,
> > Robert (Roy) Rogers is leading a Cleanup trail run on Saturday,
> January
> > 25, 2003.
> >
> > When: Meet at 9 AM
> > Where: West side of Table Mesa exit beyond end of pavement.
> > Rating: 2.0
> > Length: unknown
> > CB Channel: 4
> >
> > Organized by the Phoenix Four Whelers in cooperation with the
> Arizona
> > State Land Department (ASLD), the Lake Pleasant Regional Recreation
> Area
> > (LPRRA), and the Bureau of Land Management (BLM).
> >
> >
> >
> > The ASLD will provide dumpsters and trash bags, the LPRRA will
> provida a
> > truck to haul away tires, and the Phoenix Four Wheelers will provide
> > beverages.
> >
> >
> >
> > any questions contact Ron Karlinsky (623-374-9443)
> >
> > This trail run is a cleanup effort to help improve our environment
> and
> > demonstrate our care for the land we use. Read the description for
> > details about where and when. Click on the date below to see the
> > description of the event.
> >
> > Click Here To Add <http://www.azvjc.org/default.asp?A=1&ID=654>
> Your
> > Name to the Sign Up List
> > Thank You,
> >
> > - The AzVJC Website
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
76012 From: tomas2691 <tomasr@a...> <tomasr@a...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 0:52pm
Subject: Re: Anyone contacted TV News for T.M. Clean-up coverage?
I emailed Kurt Loga of the Phoenix 4 Wheelers and asked him if the
media has been contacted. I'll let you all konw once I hear back
from him. If they have not contacted the media, does someone here
want to take on that task? Anyone with connections to the media?
-Roger
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Gevarter <gev39@y...>"
<gev39@y...> wrote:
> Just wondering if there has been any contact with the local news
> stations to see if they will come out and give us some TV coverage.
> Most folks have no idea that OHVers participate in this type of
> event, or be aware that a dumping problem even exists.
> I think it would be awesome to show the general public our efforts.
> Russ
76013 From: onebdjeep <onebdjeep@c...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 1:01pm
Subject: Re: RE: Rockstacking etc etc
Good post!!!!
Sean Speer
OneBdJeep (someday!!)
'97 TJ with killer mods to come!!!
(umm... will drink beer for Jeep parts!!!)
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Logan
To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 1:17 PM
Subject: [az_vjc] RE: Rockstacking etc etc
Well here is my .02 worth. I got into this sport to have fun learn my skills, jeep etc and go at What Mother Nature has to offer, I have always been that way hiking, Mountain biking etc and always tread lightly, pick up other peoples trash on the way etc. Now jeeping. When I first got my first jeep it was stock after I put my first little lift on I had the common sense not to go do 4 or 4.5 etc because 2 reasons I was not equipped to do so and would have to stack or hold people up break etc, over time I have built my rig and have done trails within its and my limits. I have been on trails where they recommend lockers front rear, winch etc and you always seem to have someone who thinks they can make it who is just barely over a stock jeep and stack rocks and I am not talking throwing a couple up under tires etc. When you talk to people like Todd and others who have been in the sport quite awhile the trails have been destroyed for people who like to do extreme crawling and are set up for it, stick to the trail so that you are set up for and move up in rating as your skill and jeep dictate do not trash the trails. Things happen in the most built rigs but play on cautions side. we have trail lists that have a good guideline if it says winch have a winch. lockers have lockers 35in tires you get the point. there are plenty of trails in az, nm ut etc of every rating and have permits where required spill oil clean it keep trash bags pick it up in your group even if it is not a club sponsored event. I guess common sense and caring about the land and others should be a priorty. Jeep on
Rick 92 YJ
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
76014 From: highjeeps <highupjeep@q...> <highupjeep@q...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 1:03pm
Subject: Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
Stu (and all),
I bring this up because it is my recollection that it was the pretty
much the consensus of the group (or at least of those posting
opinions at the time) once it was identified who it was that did the
modifying and why it was done, that it was then somehow justified.
When it was first posted that the ledge had been smoothed out, pretty
much everyone expressed outrage (me too), then that seemed to change
acceptance for that particular case (not me).
At least that was my take on it.
Larry
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "Stu Olson" <solson8@q...> wrote:
> Larry,
>
> The fact that some moron did it does NOT mean it was the right
thing to
> do.
>
> Stu
>
> Stu Olson
> www.stu-offroad.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: highjeeps <highupjeep@q...> [mailto:highupjeep@q...]
> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:58 AM
> To: az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [az_vjc] Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
>
> On the subject of modifying trails to make them easier and that
being
> the wrong thing to do, can someone explain to me why it was
> apparently OK to smooth out the Ledge on the Crown King Trail? How
is
> that different from modifying any other trail to make it easier? (I
> think I may be the only one that still disagrees with that trail
> modification).
> Thx,
> Larry
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
76015 From: Sandee McCullen <mccullen@c...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 1:36pm
Subject: Table Mesa Maps
To all that attended the Phoenix BLM mapping meeting and did not get a map
and to those that use the trails in the Table Mesa area:
I have maps and two CD's of the inventoried area............. please let me
know WHO needs these maps so I can get them to you. We don't have much time
to get our GPS coordinances to Phoenix BLM. We need to review the maps and
(if possible) identify that our trails are on the maps......... It looks
like our best bet is to give them GPS points for ALL of what we do and let
them figure out whether these are on the inventory............... the
spiderweb of routes is unbelievable. The major routes out there we don't
need to do anything with............. it's mostly the "rock base washes"
that the Enterprise Team are unable to identify OR the trails (which are
most) a motorcycle cannot traverse....
GPS coordinances for the trailheads are important!
Don't stop now............. if we back out now, we lose EVERYTHING.
Sandee
76016 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:01pm
Subject: [FS] D-35c shafts (1 pair) plus carrier
Price: $60 for all
Contact: Russell Gevarter 623-465-2939
OEM Dana 35c axle shafts from a YJ, will also fit TJ
Carrier &; spider gears for 3.07-3.73 (YJ)
Get your spares before you break on the trail!
Russell Gevarter
76017 From: John Stewart <landuse@u...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:11pm
Subject: Fwd: MUST READ: Editorial: Control of Land Use is Outrageous
I encourage every one to take the time to read the below article.
Then, look around your community (or your favorite recreation area)
and see if you can find a similar instance.
Wolf re-introduction, grizzly bear re-introduction, desert tortoise
recovery, Florida Panther recovery, Black-footed Ferret recovery,
Red-legged Frog recovery, Arroyo Toad, Milk Vetch, Fringe-Tailed
Lizard, Flat-Tailed Horned Lizard.
The list goes on and on.
This, ladies and gentlemen, is the real threat to recreation
opportunities. With these listings comes habitat protection.
From: "Judy Keeler" <jfkeeler@v...>
To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
Subject: MUST READ: Editorial: Control of Land Use is Outrageous
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:09:24 -0800
X-Priority: 3
Here's one that will rock your boat if you think the Wildlands
Project isn't being implemented in our nation!
We (the Public Land Advisory Committee) were told the same thing,
"that's the way it is, so get over it!" by Bruce Palmer, U.S. Fish
and Wildlife biologist, when we questioned why the agency decided to
designate Hidalgo County as "occupied range" and the Peloncillo
Mountains as "occupied habitat" (55% private property per TNC) for
the jaguar. Even though there has been only 3 sighting of jaguars
in our area over a period of 100 years we get designated as
"occupied"? Go figure!
Keep in mind the Service is not calling it "critical habitat"
as defined in the Endangered Species Act, because they could never
justify Arizona and New Mexico as being "critical to the survival of
the species". No, Fish and Wildlife coined a whole new term for our
area. Aren't we special??
And, for what purpose are they mapping the two states for "occupied"
jaguars habitat/range? Could it be to satisfy the Wildlands
proponents that are going to use "focal species such as Mexican
wolves, jaguars, mountain lions, black bears, elk, and northern
goshawks" as reasons for Congress and/or other federal agencies to
include an area into the Wildlands Project's proposals??
It's time to wake up and smell the coffee. We've got to get a handle
on the nongovernmental organizations (NGOs) that are spurring this
horse onward. One way is to insist NO FEDERAL GRANTS be given to
NGOs. If they can't muster the money from their membership, why
should the taxpayers foot the bill to cut their own throat? Another
is to amend the ESA so economic impacts must be addressed and new
words can't be coined to justify more "takings" of private land.
The stock market down turn has already hurt the NGO's conflict
industry. If we can get our congressmen and women to follow suit,
then we might all begin to play on a level field.
Judy K.
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Fw: MUST READ: Editorial: Control of Land Use is Outrageous
This is a good one for our skeptical representatives and editors...
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:peasley@g...>Paula Easley
Control of land use is outrageous
By Paula Easley
Comment
(Published: December 30, 2002)
"That's the way it is," I was told, "so get over it." The topic was
the effects of critical habitat designations for the fairy shrimp on
local livelihoods, property rights, housing costs and county
revenues. Life as my rural California friends knew it would never be
the same; 78 percent of the habitat was privately owned.
Well, I don't want to get over it. Losing our capacity for outrage
that such destructive situations can be legal in a democratic
republic is, to me, immoral. Maybe our outrage genes are being bred
away by secret government modifications to the food supply. For sure
we've been brainwashed to support anything for "the environment,"
even financing a 1.7 million-acre government-managed subdivision for
these pond-loving crustaceans. Not to mention the grand lifestyles of
the red-legged frog and Delhi Sands fly.
It is not about saving species. "Government control of private land
to 'protect' species of weeds and bugs is a feel-good mask that hides
the sinister effect of transforming America into a socialist nation,"
author Joseph Farah explains. Surely "abolish private property" and
"control the means of production" must ring a bell. By not being
outraged over government's rampant acquisition and control of private
land, we are unwitting accomplices to the perpetrators.
The Endangered Species Act may be the supreme land confiscation tool,
but the movement employs other policy and regulatory tools, including
intimidation and extortion. They are expertly applied to fight
technological progress, uses of mechanized equipment and vehicles,
choices for housing and transportation, digging materials from the
earth, transforming trees into products, ranching and grazing,
irrigation, multiple uses of public land, dams and reservoirs,
agricultural chemicals, new roads anywhere, anything "unnatural."
The Wildlands Project, once deemed a laughable, insane proposal to
herd humans into cities and return virtually all rural lands to
wildlife and "nature," gains ground from the Klamath Basin to the
Florida Everglades. Its wealthy sponsors cooperated with Congress and
bureaucrats to create the framework, and all three now fund state and
local groups -- and candidates -- to implement it.
Land targeted for development becomes "the last of its kind,"
"fragile" or "sacred," adjectives loosely applicable to anything.
Stories about the resulting conflicts omit that humans occupy less
than 3 percent of our land or that governments already "own" more
than 40 percent of it and control much, much more through regulation.
Author Linda Bowles, in her article "Environmental Marxism," suggests
today's land-takeover abuses occur because of limited coverage by the
mainstream media rather than "a fatalistic American submission to
state socialism. One fears that only in retrospect, when it is too
late to resist, will it be understood that freedoms have been
irretrievably forfeited and the Constitution irreversibly abandoned."
The situation should concern each of us. Today, more than half the
states face massive budget deficits. During the prosperous 1990s, the
president, Congress and governors appropriated millions of acres to
"nature," restricting resource extraction and traditional multiple
uses. Except for President Clinton's last-minute land
reclassifications, I suspect few of those leaders thought the
restrictive policies of that decade could so effectively stifle
economic progress in this one. Paralyzed by "citizen lawsuits" and
other public processes, it is finally registering with state policy
leaders that land, freedom and human ingenuity are essential
components of all new wealth creation.
Frank Gladics, with the Senate Energy and Natural Resources
Committee, shared some research at a policy analysts meeting last
winter. Scrutinizing national data, his fears about rural natural
resource and food-producing counties, those most affected by the
"protect-everything" agenda, were substantiated. They contain the
nation's highest unemployment rates, the highest poverty rates, and
the poorest schools. That these rates occurred in counties with the
most federal land, including Alaska's boroughs, was not surprising.
It is ironic that so many liberals, self-proclaimed champions of the
poor and downtrodden, have switched allegiance. They now profess
their mission is to save nature and species, preaching that humans
should not have dominion over the earth and its creatures; we are no
more, no less, important than a fly or a cave beetle. Paganism, here
we come.
Property has always diffused power. Your worst nightmare is for
someone with nothing to lose to gain control over it. There is no
shortage of people who have well-meaning ideas for using and managing
your property for "the greater good." Do not let them.
Paula Easley is a public policy consultant and former executive
director of the Resource Development Council of Alaska.
--
John Stewart
Director, Environmental Affairs, UFWDA, http://www.ufwda.org
Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
Webmaster, Tierra del Sol 4x4: http://www.tds4x4.com
Webmaster, Jeep-L: http://www.jeep-l.net
76018 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:16pm
Subject: [FS] Jeep parts...
Price: make ofder
Contact: Bill@ 928-774-6024
Bill Ragan
76019 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:16pm
Subject: [FS] Hi pinion D-30 (housing & knuckles only, driver-side pumpkin)
Price: Make offer
Contact: Russell Gevarter 623-465-2939
This is from an early YJ (pre 1990) includes carrier, 3.07 R&P;, inner disco shaft, vacuum motor and 2-piece knuckles.
SOA-ready. No shafts hubs or brakes.
Russell Gevarter
76020 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:22pm
Subject: [FS] 90-93 Renegade bumpers (YJ)
Price: Make Offer
Contact: Russell Gevarter 623-465-2939
These are complete OEM plastic bumpers from a 92 Renegade YJ. The front is nearly perfect condition, Rear has some scratches, but is in good condition. They are blue.
Russell Gevarter
76021 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:23pm
Subject: [FS] WANTED; 5 or 10 lb air (Co2) tank w/or without regulator
Price: fair
Contact: Bernie VanBenthem
Looking for a small 5-10 lb tank to fill my tires with. I'm to cheap and impatient to buy or wait for a small compressor to do the job!
Bernie
Bernie Van Benthem
76022 From: Darren Richards <darren.richards@m...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:25pm
Subject: Re: [FS] Jeep parts...
I'll give you $1.99. I hope it's something good.
-darren
AzVJC Website wrote:
> Price: make ofder
>
> Contact: Bill@ 928-774-6024
>
>
>
> Bill Ragan
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
76023 From: Trujillo, Jeff <jeff.trujillo@m...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:08pm
Subject: RE: [FS] Jeep parts...
I bid $2 even. Hope its for an XJ! LOL
Jeffrey A. Trujillo
Field Service Representative
MD Helicopters, Inc.
jeff.trujillo@m...
Voice:(480)346-6249
Fax:(480)346-6813
-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Richards [mailto:darren.richards@m...]
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 3:25 PM
To: wragan@u...
Cc: AzVJC
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] [FS] Jeep parts...
I'll give you $1.99. I hope it's something good.
-darren
AzVJC Website wrote:
> Price: make ofder
>
> Contact: Bill@ 928-774-6024
>
>
>
> Bill Ragan
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
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taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
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MD Helicopters, Inc. is prohibited. If you received this in error, please
contact the sender by email and delete the material from any computer..
76024 From: Scott Legge <scottleggejr@h...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:28pm
Subject: Re: [FS] Jeep parts...
I got $2.00 I hope its good too!
Scott Legge
>From: Darren Richards <darren.richards@m...>
>To: wragan@u...
>CC: AzVJC <az_vjc@YahooGroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [az_vjc] [FS] Jeep parts...
>Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:25:28 -0700
>
>I'll give you $1.99. I hope it's something good.
>
>-darren
>
>AzVJC Website wrote:
>
> > Price: make ofder
> >
> > Contact: Bill@ 928-774-6024
> >
> >
> >
> > Bill Ragan
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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76025 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:30pm
Subject: [FS] Jeep parts...
Price: make offer
Contact: Bill@ 928-774-6024
More garage cleaning...
Here's what I have:
Dana 30 carrier for 3:73 and up
Skyjacker adjustable trackbar, fits XJ w/5" lift+
XJ rear swaybar
4 near-new 225s on OEM wheels from 2001 XJ
doughnut spare from XJ
Stock TJ airbox w/filter from '97 2.5L
various seatbelts from YJ/late CJ
aftermarket CJ shackles, 1" lift front and 1/2" lift rear, heavy-duty, gold anodized, non-greaseable
2 new gerry cans with spout and mounts.
I know what this stuff is worth, so be fair...
My email is wragan@uneedspeed.net
Bill Ragan
76026 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Mon Jan 20, 2003 3:08pm
Subject: [TR] Trip Report - FR-42 - Sunday, January 19, 2003
Hello All,
Chris Benner lead a trail run Sunday, January 19, 2003 across FR-42
We had 9 people meet at carefree highway. We got to the paystation by 11am.A couple more people met up with us. We aired down, disconnected and were rolling at 11:30. This was the first trip that I was able to use my GPS with. I misread a turn and took us on the side trip down by the river. A nice fun sand hill to play on. No one got stuck in the sand thankfully. although there was a nice looking mud puddle on the shadowed side of a huge rock.
Keith dipped his front tires into the mud and it didn't seem to deep, then suddenly it was VERY deep and not quite mud but rather CLAY. Steve jumped in and tried to pull him out but that made it worse. Several people tried to pull him out and we ended up pulling him in deeper. Two people had winches. Koko tried his winch with two anchors behind him, no luck. Jim had to get his winch into the mix also. It took two winches and 3 anchors to pull poor keith out of the clay.
Got back on track, stopped by the river and played a little. Keith, rick, myself and two others crossed the river without any problems. There was a little mud in the area, a lot of us were able to give ourselves a new paintjob with it.
Continued the trail, no major issues. we opted to not run spare tire canyon since we had a couple stock vehicles in the mix.
We got to 2nd river spot and took a break at the northern side of the river. The water looked pretty deep. Two people gave it a shot. The white bronco had no issues. The green ford made it accrosed also. They had to run it twice since no one else wanted to try it.
On the way home via indian springs wash, the green ford blew his tranny and lost a lot of fluid. His buddy ended up pulling him to the pavement. where he drove it home.. I didn't see him on the side of the road anywhere so I assume he made it.
Fun trip, we'll do it again.. NEXT WEEK, desoto mine 4.0 trail. Meeting at the same time and place.
Click Here to View Pictures (if available)
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website