blooddrive
01-07-2004, 09:43 PM
75902-75926
75902 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 0:06pm
Subject: [FS] Wanted HARDTOP 91 YJ
Price: Open
Contact: 602-625-8046 - Dan
Looking for a hard top for my 91. I have the full hard doors and now looking for the top. Prefer black but if the price is right I will have it painted.
Dan Montello
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
75903 From: CoyotEddie <coyoteddie@e...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 0:08pm
Subject: [OT]Free Converter.exe
I have attached a free to distribute converter to convert about anything. It is 585kb in size download it if you need one. This is very handy to have.
75904 From: CoyotEddie <coyoteddie@e...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 0:11pm
Subject: Re: [OT]Free Converter.exe
I guess I should attach the file DUH
I have attached a free to distribute converter to convert about anything. It is 585kb in size download it if you need one. This is very handy to have.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Attachment: (application/x-msdownload) Convert.exe [not stored]
75905 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 0:21pm
Subject: Re: [FS] Wanted
Do you mean just a single mount, that is only one side, or the set, both sides ??
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: AzVJC Website
To: AzVJC
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 8:11 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] [FS] Wanted
Price: ???????
Contact: Dean 480-390-5176
Dose any one have a 1 inch motormout they dont need??? for a TJ
Thank you Dean
Dean Radak
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
75906 From: Travis Carpenter <tdog90yj@h...> <tdog90yj@h...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 0:30pm
Subject: Re: [OT]Free Converter.exe
Converter for what? Catalitic? Torque?
Travis
90Yj
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "CoyotEddie" <coyoteddie@e...> wrote:
> I have attached a free to distribute converter to convert about
anything. It is 585kb in size download it if you need one. This is
very handy to have.
75907 From: Michael Beckham <jeepnut7261@h...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 1:56pm
Subject: roof rack project
Here's a pic of my completed roof rack. I borrowed a friends bender, and rally had a ball!
Attachment: (image/jpeg) Img_0495.jpg [not stored]
75908 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 2:28pm
Subject: [TR] Coves of Saguaro Lake - Monday, January 20, 2003 - Reminder
Hello All,
Phil Thompson is leading a Coves of Saguaro Lake trail run on Monday, January 20, 2003.
When: Meet around 10:00 am
Where: Mc Donald's on Power Road 1/4 Mile North of U.S. 60 on west side, or 10:30 at Butcher Jones Parking area.
Rating: 2.5+
Length: ?
CB Channel:
Plenty of open spaces to play in. I'd prefer someone with intimate knowledge of the area to lead but it'll be fun one way or another. Come on out and enjoy the weather.
At the Coves of Saguaro Lake, there are at least 4 coves to play in, on, and around. Many hill climbs provide a challenge to all levels of 4-Wheelers and vehicles.
Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
75909 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 2:31pm
Subject: [TR] Unspecified - Friday, January 24, 2003 - Reminder
Hello All,
Nasser Pirshafiey is leading an Unspecified trail run on Friday, January 24, 2003.
When: 5:45 pm
Where: North East corner of McQueen and Warner in Gilbert
Rating: None
Length: 2 + hours
CB Channel:
Jeep and Auto Show
Every Friday night a number of automobile enthusiasts gather and show their collectors, hot rods, military, etc. They would like to see our Jeeps again!!
We had a showing last July and it was a lot fun. It is a great opportunity to show our rigs and meet other AZVJC members.
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
75910 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 3:25pm
Subject: [FS] dana hubs, steering knuckles, and axle brackets for sale
Price: any fair offers accepted
Contact: Bernie VanBenthem
I have the wheel hubs, steering knuckles and axle brackets (for those of you who have bent or busted yours, or, are doing a ford axle conversion).
Bernie Van Benthem
75911 From: John Stewart <landuse@u...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 4:36pm
Subject: Oceano SVRA/Coastal Commission meeting
According to recently released information, the California Coastal
Commission is expected to discuss the Oceano SVRA permit to operate
at their February meeting.
February 6, 2003 - 9 a.m.
Hyatt Regency Islandia & Marina
1441 Quivira Rd.
San Diego, CA 92109
619-224-1234
www.coastal.ca.gov/web/mtgcurr.html
--
John Stewart
Director, Environmental Affairs, UFWDA, http://www.ufwda.org
Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
Webmaster, Tierra del Sol 4x4: http://www.tds4x4.com
Webmaster, Jeep-L: http://www.jeep-l.net
75912 From: Randy Richards <rrichards13@m...> <rrichards13@m...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 5:13pm
Subject: Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
Man...I spent all day stacking those so my stock wrangler could make
it, thx alot. I thought it was 4.5 out of a 10 rating. haha
75913 From: John Stewart <landuse@u...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 5:37pm
Subject: Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
At 12:38 PM -0700 1/19/03, TODD MCCULLEN wrote:
>Just need to add my 2 cents, I agree with Sandee 100%
> Myself and some buddies went out yesterday to play and practice
>for the upcoming competition, and the day ended up being a work day.
>We started off on lower woodpecker, and found all the good spots
>ramped with rocks. We spent the first hour unstacking everything we
>could find. After that we headed over to bad medicine to check out
>the waterfall, we decided to do upper Ajax on the way. This ended up
>in a major derocking of the trail, and it could use more. We spent 2
>hours just removing rocks from the few hard spots on this trail.
>We did axle alley, and highway to hell a couple weeks ago and did
>the same thing. Heck axle alley was so paved it took us about five
>minutes to get to the first waterfall, when this trail was new it
>took a couple hours to get this far. This is an example of how the
>tough trails are being paved by people & rigs that did not belong
>there.
>The last waterfall on Bad Medicine is now passable, we managed to
>maneuver the rocks down to the bottom of the waterfall. It is not
>easy, so the people that worry about breakage or damage DO NOT DO
>THE TRAIL.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do a trail that you are capable of
>without ruining the trail for the ones that like the extreme
>challenge.
>I am sick and tired of every time I go out wheeling, I spend half
>the day UNSTACKING ROCKS. We do put winches on our rigs for a
>reason. If you cant not drive the obstacle without building ramps,
>use your WINCH.
>I could go on forever about this so I will stop now, GET THE POINT.
>
>Todd
>
>
I will take you to task on the central issue you are advocating:
If you are saying that the ONLY people on the trails are the ones
that want the extreme trail, you are no different than the GAG that
wants no one but them on foot on the trail.
If it is a trail on PUBLIC LAND and it is a recognized trail, making
the trail impassible except for a modified rig is a sure sign to get
the trail closed.
I agree that people with stock vehicles have no business on many of
the trails. By the same token, if you are going to limit access to
special class of rigs, you are asking for a trail closure, especially
if a case of bodily injury or death occurs.
BLM is not going to keep a trail open if it is cited as a liability.
Okay, now start the argument about how people need to have their own
insurance, yada, yada, yada and they should be responsible, yada,
yada, yada..
Making a trail difficult has caused a major problem with the Little
Sluice on the Rubicon.
Okay, you want extreme trails? Join the Rockcrawler groups and have
at it on a course. Keep in mind that a course can be set up and
removed. Trails are no different, they can be removed and will be
remove when they become a liability.
You need to remember that access to trails on PUBLIC LANDS needs to
be available to the PUBLIC. If you are going to advocate in land
management plans that trails be kept for extreme use, you are playing
into the GAGs hand. The argument becomes a losing battle because the
BLM is not going to keep trails for a few (elite CAPABILITY) at the
expense of many.
I have used the argument about the number of 4x4 recreationists that
are desiring access to trails and trying to say that the numbers
demand that trails be kept open as opposed to the limited number of
hikers that would otherwise have the area to themselves.
Now, you want to take the set of potential trail users and limit that
to the few who want extreme trails. Sorry, I will go out and help
stack the rocks so that more people from all skill levels can use the
trails. That is the only way we will be able to keep them open.
Access for ALL.
--
John Stewart
Director, Environmental Affairs, UFWDA, http://www.ufwda.org
Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
Webmaster, Tierra del Sol 4x4: http://www.tds4x4.com
Webmaster, Jeep-L: http://www.jeep-l.net
75914 From: Joe W <arizonajeep@c...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 5:43pm
Subject: RE: roof rack project
Mike,
That is a nice looking rack& you did a great job! Ive had a roof rack on my Wrangler since just after I purchased it and my Jeep just wouldnt be quite as useful without it.
The only drawback is that it raises your CG&. Just keep heavy stuff off of it on the rock runs and youll be fine.
Kind Regards,
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Beckham [mailto:jeepnut7261@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 2:57 PM
To: Jeep club email; Phillip Thomson
Subject: [az_vjc] roof rack project
Here's a pic of my completed roof rack. I borrowed a friends bender, and rally had a ball!
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
75915 From: AzVJC Website <msa12171@a...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 5:57pm
Subject: [FS] FS: YJ Stuff
Price: Call
Contact: Eric, 480-650-3887
I have several rancho shocks.
a d35 NON C-CLIP rear wont come out when... oops I mean if you break it. has
3.73 gears
lock right for d35
np 241 for an auto matis 6 cyl. already has currie short shaft conversion. set up for use with CV style drive shaft. (not hack and tap) complete shaft replacement.
assorted steering rods and steering stabilizer, tie rod. sway bar.
have BRAND NEW HUB for front of TJ / YJ / XJ ; disks for front brakes D30
locker for ford 9 in BRAND NEW!!
call most of it you can have the rest we can deal on.
I NEED IT GONE !!
eric 480-650-3887 I dont check my email often so please call.
Mike Anderson
75916 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:07pm
Subject: RE: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
John if you want everyone to be able to run every trail why is there a trail
rating system in effect complete with recommended equipment?
I every activity I have been involved in it has different levels that you
learn and equip your self to use. I snow ski also and while a beginner has
the option to run a black diamond it would not be suggested.
Even hiking has levels of trails that require experience to prepare yourself
and your equipment for.
This method of learning and building your vehicle to be prepared for the
challenges is a large part of what our sport is about. A vehicle that is
prepared for the trail you plan on running will do less damage to itself an
also the environment that the trail passes through. Just my two cents. Jim
F.
I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho
Marx"
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
http://www.rockrats.org/
75917 From: Eric <parajeeper02@y...> <parajeeper02@y...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:13pm
Subject: Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
John,
I totally disagree with you. If you stack a trail you better remove
the rocks when you complete the obstacle and if you bled fluids all
over the trail you better clean it up. So what you are telling me is
that I can go out to FJ with an asphalt truck and pave all the trials
out there I want to run so I can do the trail in my AWD subaru or my
mini cooper? I also noticed how you stated that you would go out and
stack the rocks but never gave the second thought to unstacking tehm
when you were finished. If that is truly the way you feel you are
part of the problem.
-- Eric
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, John Stewart <landuse@u...> wrote:
> At 12:38 PM -0700 1/19/03, TODD MCCULLEN wrote:
> >Just need to add my 2 cents, I agree with Sandee 100%
> > Myself and some buddies went out yesterday to play and
practice
> >for the upcoming competition, and the day ended up being a work
day.
> >We started off on lower woodpecker, and found all the good spots
> >ramped with rocks. We spent the first hour unstacking everything
we
> >could find. After that we headed over to bad medicine to check out
> >the waterfall, we decided to do upper Ajax on the way. This ended
up
> >in a major derocking of the trail, and it could use more. We spent
2
> >hours just removing rocks from the few hard spots on this trail.
> >We did axle alley, and highway to hell a couple weeks ago and did
> >the same thing. Heck axle alley was so paved it took us about five
> >minutes to get to the first waterfall, when this trail was new it
> >took a couple hours to get this far. This is an example of how the
> >tough trails are being paved by people & rigs that did not belong
> >there.
> >The last waterfall on Bad Medicine is now passable, we managed to
> >maneuver the rocks down to the bottom of the waterfall. It is not
> >easy, so the people that worry about breakage or damage DO NOT DO
> >THE TRAIL.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do a trail that you are capable of
> >without ruining the trail for the ones that like the extreme
> >challenge.
> >I am sick and tired of every time I go out wheeling, I spend half
> >the day UNSTACKING ROCKS. We do put winches on our rigs for a
> >reason. If you cant not drive the obstacle without building ramps,
> >use your WINCH.
> >I could go on forever about this so I will stop now, GET THE POINT.
> >
> >Todd
> >
> >
>
>
> I will take you to task on the central issue you are advocating:
>
> If you are saying that the ONLY people on the trails are the ones
> that want the extreme trail, you are no different than the GAG that
> wants no one but them on foot on the trail.
>
> If it is a trail on PUBLIC LAND and it is a recognized trail,
making
> the trail impassible except for a modified rig is a sure sign to
get
> the trail closed.
>
> I agree that people with stock vehicles have no business on many of
> the trails. By the same token, if you are going to limit access to
> special class of rigs, you are asking for a trail closure,
especially
> if a case of bodily injury or death occurs.
>
> BLM is not going to keep a trail open if it is cited as a
liability.
> Okay, now start the argument about how people need to have their
own
> insurance, yada, yada, yada and they should be responsible, yada,
> yada, yada..
>
> Making a trail difficult has caused a major problem with the Little
> Sluice on the Rubicon.
>
> Okay, you want extreme trails? Join the Rockcrawler groups and
have
> at it on a course. Keep in mind that a course can be set up and
> removed. Trails are no different, they can be removed and will be
> remove when they become a liability.
>
> You need to remember that access to trails on PUBLIC LANDS needs to
> be available to the PUBLIC. If you are going to advocate in land
> management plans that trails be kept for extreme use, you are
playing
> into the GAGs hand. The argument becomes a losing battle because
the
> BLM is not going to keep trails for a few (elite CAPABILITY) at the
> expense of many.
>
> I have used the argument about the number of 4x4 recreationists
that
> are desiring access to trails and trying to say that the numbers
> demand that trails be kept open as opposed to the limited number of
> hikers that would otherwise have the area to themselves.
>
> Now, you want to take the set of potential trail users and limit
that
> to the few who want extreme trails. Sorry, I will go out and help
> stack the rocks so that more people from all skill levels can use
the
> trails. That is the only way we will be able to keep them open.
> Access for ALL.
>
>
> --
> John Stewart
> Director, Environmental Affairs, UFWDA, http://www.ufwda.org
> Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
> Webmaster, Tierra del Sol 4x4: http://www.tds4x4.com
> Webmaster, Jeep-L: http://www.jeep-l.net
75918 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:35pm
Subject: RE: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
John,
While I don't run at the same vehicle level as Todd (I fully admit that
my TJ is not built like any of his vehicles), I will certainly defend
Todd's comments.
We enjoy a large number of trails here in Arizona (luckily) that provide
fun for vehicles ranging from the stock equipped Sunday afternoon picnic
crowd to the highest capability rock buggies. I view it very much like
the ski slopes at Aspen or any other ski resort....bunny hills for the
new folks, black diamond runs for those that are capable.
So please answer me a question.....of what benefit is converting all of
the tails into the picnic trails? Is this suppose to encourage those
who have something more than a stock vehicle to stay on the trails and
not seek something more challenging? I think not.
I was fortunate enough to attend the NOHVCC conference held here in
Phoenix this past October. One thing I learned, as did the land
management people, is that the Joe Public will go out to THEIR public
lands and have fun on the weekends. Unfortunately, if that means
blazing a new trail because NONE exist that are challenging enough for
them, they WILL blaze them. If challenging trails are available, the
chances of someone wildcatting a new one is greatly reduced. We had
land management personnel give presentations that stated that a
successful trail network, for the public's use on THEIR land, MUST have
trails that are many in numbers and appeal to all levels of users.
As to the liability issue....sorry, I don't think I can fully support
your opinion on that either. We recently had a Jeeper kill himself (a
relative of a person at my work in fact). It was not done on a hard
core "extreme" trail....it was done on one that a stock Jeep can
navigate. In my opinion, the liability issue rests with those people
who are NOT adequately prepared (read this as lacking in driving
skills). It is one thing to lay a rock buggy over on its side while
attempting a difficult waterfall or such. It is another to roll your
vehicle down a 700' mountain side because you could not keep it on a
piece of 2.5 level trail (read the trail was basically flat). The
previous Jeep OHV accident I can recall was on a "Trail" that is
routinely run by any SUV or pickup truck (heck, it is graded every now
and then). This guy took the corner too fast and shot off the road and
went some 70' down into a wash. You can call it anecdotal evidence, but
from what I see, the "Extremist" seem to be the least of our accident
problems here in Arizona.
As for joining a Rock Crawler group and competing, Todd McCullen does
compete. As he stated, he and friends had gone out to practice for an
upcoming event. What is it that these folks are suppose to practice
on....the picnic trails? You advise them to get serious about the sport
but advocate no challenging trails on which they can hone their skills.
I am sorry John, but you can not have it both ways.
As for the Rubicon's Little Sluice....I've been on that trail, a year
ago last August. The ONLY problem the Rubicon Trail has, in my opinion,
is the **** load of drunks that go there to party. I am sorry, but the
drunks I have seen seem fully capable of causing harm and even death to
themselves or anyone around, be it on flat ground or a big rock
obstacle.
I have been reading your posts to this reflector since you started
sending them this direction. I've never met you nor do I really know
much about you (as you do me). However, I must say I was completely
shocked to see your comments. If I didn't know better, I would say that
some anti-recreationist (I refuse to call them environmentalist because
I am an environmentalist) hacked your userID and password and sent the
note to our e-mail list.
Respectfully,
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: John Stewart [mailto:landuse@u...]
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 6:38 PM
To: TODD MCCULLEN; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Trail blockage, Rock stackers
At 12:38 PM -0700 1/19/03, TODD MCCULLEN wrote:
>Just need to add my 2 cents, I agree with Sandee 100%
> Myself and some buddies went out yesterday to play and practice
>for the upcoming competition, and the day ended up being a work day.
>We started off on lower woodpecker, and found all the good spots
>ramped with rocks. We spent the first hour unstacking everything we
>could find. After that we headed over to bad medicine to check out
>the waterfall, we decided to do upper Ajax on the way. This ended up
>in a major derocking of the trail, and it could use more. We spent 2
>hours just removing rocks from the few hard spots on this trail.
>We did axle alley, and highway to hell a couple weeks ago and did
>the same thing. Heck axle alley was so paved it took us about five
>minutes to get to the first waterfall, when this trail was new it
>took a couple hours to get this far. This is an example of how the
>tough trails are being paved by people & rigs that did not belong
>there.
>The last waterfall on Bad Medicine is now passable, we managed to
>maneuver the rocks down to the bottom of the waterfall. It is not
>easy, so the people that worry about breakage or damage DO NOT DO
>THE TRAIL.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do a trail that you are capable of
>without ruining the trail for the ones that like the extreme
>challenge.
>I am sick and tired of every time I go out wheeling, I spend half
>the day UNSTACKING ROCKS. We do put winches on our rigs for a
>reason. If you cant not drive the obstacle without building ramps,
>use your WINCH.
>I could go on forever about this so I will stop now, GET THE POINT.
>
>Todd
>
>
I will take you to task on the central issue you are advocating:
If you are saying that the ONLY people on the trails are the ones
that want the extreme trail, you are no different than the GAG that
wants no one but them on foot on the trail.
If it is a trail on PUBLIC LAND and it is a recognized trail, making
the trail impassible except for a modified rig is a sure sign to get
the trail closed.
I agree that people with stock vehicles have no business on many of
the trails. By the same token, if you are going to limit access to
special class of rigs, you are asking for a trail closure, especially
if a case of bodily injury or death occurs.
BLM is not going to keep a trail open if it is cited as a liability.
Okay, now start the argument about how people need to have their own
insurance, yada, yada, yada and they should be responsible, yada,
yada, yada..
Making a trail difficult has caused a major problem with the Little
Sluice on the Rubicon.
Okay, you want extreme trails? Join the Rockcrawler groups and have
at it on a course. Keep in mind that a course can be set up and
removed. Trails are no different, they can be removed and will be
remove when they become a liability.
You need to remember that access to trails on PUBLIC LANDS needs to
be available to the PUBLIC. If you are going to advocate in land
management plans that trails be kept for extreme use, you are playing
into the GAGs hand. The argument becomes a losing battle because the
BLM is not going to keep trails for a few (elite CAPABILITY) at the
expense of many.
I have used the argument about the number of 4x4 recreationists that
are desiring access to trails and trying to say that the numbers
demand that trails be kept open as opposed to the limited number of
hikers that would otherwise have the area to themselves.
Now, you want to take the set of potential trail users and limit that
to the few who want extreme trails. Sorry, I will go out and help
stack the rocks so that more people from all skill levels can use the
trails. That is the only way we will be able to keep them open.
Access for ALL.
--
John Stewart
Director, Environmental Affairs, UFWDA, http://www.ufwda.org
Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
Webmaster, Tierra del Sol 4x4: http://www.tds4x4.com
Webmaster, Jeep-L: http://www.jeep-l.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
75919 From: dustin mattal <dmattal2@h...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:40pm
Subject: Re: [TR] Unspecified - Friday, January 24, 2003 - Reminder
u can count me in!
>From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@azvjc.org>
>Reply-To: nasser88@cox.net
>To: AzVJC <az_vjc@YahooGroups.com>
>Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Unspecified - Friday, January 24, 2003 - Reminder
>Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:31:17 (GMT)
>
__________________________________________________ _______________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
To: AzVJC az_vjc@Y...
From: AzVJC Website azvjc@a...
Mailing-List: list az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; contact az_vjc-owner@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:31:17 (GMT)
Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Unspecified - Friday, January 24, 2003 - Reminder
Hello All,
Nasser Pirshafiey is leading an Unspecified trail run on Friday, January 24, 2003.
When: 5:45 pm
Where: North East corner of McQueen and Warner in Gilbert
Rating: None
Length: 2 + hours
CB Channel:
Jeep and Auto Show
Every Friday night a number of automobile enthusiasts gather and show their collectors, hot rods, military, etc. They would like to see our Jeeps again!!
We had a showing last July and it was a lot fun. It is a great opportunity to show our rigs and meet other AZVJC members.
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
75920 From: Coxy8 <coxy8@y...> <coxy8@y...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:44pm
Subject: Alignment shop
Can anyone tell me a good alignment shop. Will they adjust my caster?
I just installed my LA upgrade kit and have some slight vibes. I
tried to adjust it myself w/ an angle finder but can't get it dialed
in.
Thanks,
Jeff Cox
75921 From: Coxy8 <coxy8@y...> <coxy8@y...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:44pm
Subject: Alignment shop
Can anyone tell me a good alignment shop. Will they adjust my caster?
I just installed my LA upgrade kit and have some slight vibes. I
tried to adjust it myself w/ an angle finder but can't get it dialed
in.
Thanks,
Jeff Cox
75922 From: AzVJC Website <martinida@c...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:50pm
Subject: [TR] Powerline Trail - Monday, January 20, 2003
Hello All,
Martin Ward is leading a Powerline Trail trail run on Monday, January 20, 2003.
When: Meet at FloJo Texaco at 1000
Where:
Rating: 3.5
Length: All day
CB Channel: 14
Bring a camera, lunch and water. Last time I went thru here it had a 3' puddle to traverse. I believe a stock vehicle can make it as my did it fine. Other than that it was rocky and took all day.
The Powerline Trail does a figure 8 as you travel along the powerline, up a off-camber hill and then back down to a grassy meadow and back up another slippery "switchback" trail.
This trail is truly a challenge for the moderate 4-wheeler. Some type of locking device is recommended, as well as clearance and 31' tires. Totally stock vehicles and/or novice drivers are not recommended. This is an all day trip. Don't forget your lunch &; water.
Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
75923 From: <hunteroffroad@a...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 1:50pm
Subject: Hunters BBQ Moved to FEB 16th.
OK Gang,
I am sorry about the scheduleing conflict. I really pooched that one, I did not notice Chris Benner's trip on the Sunday the 9th. Everythign will be the same.. Just one weekend later. So, I moved mine to next weekend the 16th.. That way everyone can make everythign and the world will be a happy place.
Sorry again..
Best regards
john K
75924 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:51pm
Subject: [TR] Club BBQ - Sunday, February 9, 2003 - Reminder
Hello All,
John Hunter Kanicsar is leading a Club BBQ trail run on Sunday, February 9, 2003.
When: Sunday, Feb 9th, 1:00 pm
Where: Parking lot at Hunter Offroad
Rating: 2.0-
Length: 5 Hours
CB Channel: 4
Hey everyone. It is the 3rd-Semi-Sorta-Annual AZVJC BBQ! Back by popular demand....Its BBQ time!
For those of you that have been to this in the past, you know the drill. Food, family and folding chairs.
For those of you that are new, (a map can be found at www.hunteroffroad.com) or havent heard about it, here is the scoop: Bring your Jeep, or fav 4x4, family and freinds, some food or soda, and folding chairs. It is the time to catch up with freinds, have some good food, show your stuff on the RTI ramp, compare notes with others on what they did with there jeeps and, most importalty, have good time.
BBQ hints and notes...
Time: Because of the colder weather, this will start at 1:00 pm and run until 6ish I guess.. I plan on haveing a good raffel as well too.
Parking: The last BBQ I had there were over 125 Jeeps there, The BBQ started at 4 I think and the parking lot was full by 4:15 , so if you want a good spot, come a little early or on time early. Also this time, parking can be done in the street, but I would like addtional parking to be done in the area behind by shop. The doors will be open, easy acces to be had be all. I just get nervous with kids and the street.. All though, on Sunday, my buiness park should be all to ourselves.
Volunteers: Food, I am not to worries about it, both times, the club has done a great job all on its own bringing enough food and drinks, as along as everyone brings a litte, we will be fine. I will need help with Cooking, and need grills and tables (big).. "Wanna a be a BBQ hero?" bring a grill Also, need some one(s) to work the ramp.. (Hackle??) Maybe someone(s) to work the raffle tickets?? If you can think of something you would like to do, feel free to ask. I could use all the help I can get.
And Remember, PLEASE, sign up so I can keep track of how many are coming.
More updates and news to follow.. Talk to you soon.
Warmest Regards
John H Kanicsar
Club BBQ.
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
75925 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:52pm
Subject: [TR] Club BBQ - Sunday, February 16, 2003 - Reminder
Hello All,
John Hunter Kanicsar is leading a Club BBQ trail run on Sunday, February 16, 2003.
When: Sunday, Feb 9th, 1:00 pm
Where: Parking lot at Hunter Offroad
Rating: 2.0-
Length: 5 Hours
CB Channel: 4
Hey everyone. It is the 3rd-Semi-Sorta-Annual AZVJC BBQ! Back by popular demand....Its BBQ time!
For those of you that have been to this in the past, you know the drill. Food, family and folding chairs.
For those of you that are new, (a map can be found at www.hunteroffroad.com) or havent heard about it, here is the scoop: Bring your Jeep, or fav 4x4, family and freinds, some food or soda, and folding chairs. It is the time to catch up with freinds, have some good food, show your stuff on the RTI ramp, compare notes with others on what they did with there jeeps and, most importalty, have good time.
BBQ hints and notes...
Time: Because of the colder weather, this will start at 1:00 pm and run until 6ish I guess.. I plan on haveing a good raffel as well too.
Parking: The last BBQ I had there were over 125 Jeeps there, The BBQ started at 4 I think and the parking lot was full by 4:15 , so if you want a good spot, come a little early or on time early. Also this time, parking can be done in the street, but I would like addtional parking to be done in the area behind by shop. The doors will be open, easy acces to be had be all. I just get nervous with kids and the street.. All though, on Sunday, my buiness park should be all to ourselves.
Volunteers: Food, I am not to worries about it, both times, the club has done a great job all on its own bringing enough food and drinks, as along as everyone brings a litte, we will be fine. I will need help with Cooking, and need grills and tables (big).. "Wanna a be a BBQ hero?" bring a grill Also, need some one(s) to work the ramp.. (Hackle??) Maybe someone(s) to work the raffle tickets?? If you can think of something you would like to do, feel free to ask. I could use all the help I can get.
And Remember, PLEASE, sign up so I can keep track of how many are coming.
More updates and news to follow.. Talk to you soon.
Warmest Regards
John H Kanicsar
Club BBQ.
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
75926 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:54pm
Subject: [TR] Club BBQ - Sunday, February 16, 2003 - Reminder
Hello All,
John Hunter Kanicsar is leading a Club BBQ trail run on Sunday, February 16, 2003.
When: Sunday, Feb 9th, 1:00 pm
Where: Parking lot at Hunter Offroad
Rating: 2.0-
Length: 5 Hours
CB Channel: 4
Hey everyone. It is the 3rd-Semi-Sorta-Annual AZVJC BBQ! Back by popular demand....Its BBQ time!
For those of you that have been to this in the past, you know the drill. Food, family and folding chairs.
For those of you that are new, (a map can be found at www.hunteroffroad.com) or havent heard about it, here is the scoop: Bring your Jeep, or fav 4x4, family and freinds, some food or soda, and folding chairs. It is the time to catch up with freinds, have some good food, show your stuff on the RTI ramp, compare notes with others on what they did with there jeeps and, most importalty, have good time.
BBQ hints and notes...
Time: Because of the colder weather, this will start at 1:00 pm and run until 6ish I guess.. I plan on haveing a good raffel as well too.
Parking: The last BBQ I had there were over 125 Jeeps there, The BBQ started at 4 I think and the parking lot was full by 4:15 , so if you want a good spot, come a little early or on time early. Also this time, parking can be done in the street, but I would like addtional parking to be done in the area behind by shop. The doors will be open, easy acces to be had be all. I just get nervous with kids and the street.. All though, on Sunday, my buiness park should be all to ourselves.
Volunteers: Food, I am not to worries about it, both times, the club has done a great job all on its own bringing enough food and drinks, as along as everyone brings a litte, we will be fine. I will need help with Cooking, and need grills and tables (big).. "Wanna a be a BBQ hero?" bring a grill Also, need some one(s) to work the ramp.. (Hackle??) Maybe someone(s) to work the raffle tickets?? If you can think of something you would like to do, feel free to ask. I could use all the help I can get.
And Remember, PLEASE, sign up so I can keep track of how many are coming.
More updates and news to follow.. Talk to you soon.
Warmest Regards
John H Kanicsar
Club BBQ.
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
75902 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 0:06pm
Subject: [FS] Wanted HARDTOP 91 YJ
Price: Open
Contact: 602-625-8046 - Dan
Looking for a hard top for my 91. I have the full hard doors and now looking for the top. Prefer black but if the price is right I will have it painted.
Dan Montello
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
75903 From: CoyotEddie <coyoteddie@e...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 0:08pm
Subject: [OT]Free Converter.exe
I have attached a free to distribute converter to convert about anything. It is 585kb in size download it if you need one. This is very handy to have.
75904 From: CoyotEddie <coyoteddie@e...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 0:11pm
Subject: Re: [OT]Free Converter.exe
I guess I should attach the file DUH
I have attached a free to distribute converter to convert about anything. It is 585kb in size download it if you need one. This is very handy to have.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Attachment: (application/x-msdownload) Convert.exe [not stored]
75905 From: FredTJ <fredtj@c...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 0:21pm
Subject: Re: [FS] Wanted
Do you mean just a single mount, that is only one side, or the set, both sides ??
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: AzVJC Website
To: AzVJC
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 8:11 AM
Subject: [az_vjc] [FS] Wanted
Price: ???????
Contact: Dean 480-390-5176
Dose any one have a 1 inch motormout they dont need??? for a TJ
Thank you Dean
Dean Radak
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
75906 From: Travis Carpenter <tdog90yj@h...> <tdog90yj@h...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 0:30pm
Subject: Re: [OT]Free Converter.exe
Converter for what? Catalitic? Torque?
Travis
90Yj
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, "CoyotEddie" <coyoteddie@e...> wrote:
> I have attached a free to distribute converter to convert about
anything. It is 585kb in size download it if you need one. This is
very handy to have.
75907 From: Michael Beckham <jeepnut7261@h...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 1:56pm
Subject: roof rack project
Here's a pic of my completed roof rack. I borrowed a friends bender, and rally had a ball!
Attachment: (image/jpeg) Img_0495.jpg [not stored]
75908 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 2:28pm
Subject: [TR] Coves of Saguaro Lake - Monday, January 20, 2003 - Reminder
Hello All,
Phil Thompson is leading a Coves of Saguaro Lake trail run on Monday, January 20, 2003.
When: Meet around 10:00 am
Where: Mc Donald's on Power Road 1/4 Mile North of U.S. 60 on west side, or 10:30 at Butcher Jones Parking area.
Rating: 2.5+
Length: ?
CB Channel:
Plenty of open spaces to play in. I'd prefer someone with intimate knowledge of the area to lead but it'll be fun one way or another. Come on out and enjoy the weather.
At the Coves of Saguaro Lake, there are at least 4 coves to play in, on, and around. Many hill climbs provide a challenge to all levels of 4-Wheelers and vehicles.
Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
75909 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 2:31pm
Subject: [TR] Unspecified - Friday, January 24, 2003 - Reminder
Hello All,
Nasser Pirshafiey is leading an Unspecified trail run on Friday, January 24, 2003.
When: 5:45 pm
Where: North East corner of McQueen and Warner in Gilbert
Rating: None
Length: 2 + hours
CB Channel:
Jeep and Auto Show
Every Friday night a number of automobile enthusiasts gather and show their collectors, hot rods, military, etc. They would like to see our Jeeps again!!
We had a showing last July and it was a lot fun. It is a great opportunity to show our rigs and meet other AZVJC members.
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
75910 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 3:25pm
Subject: [FS] dana hubs, steering knuckles, and axle brackets for sale
Price: any fair offers accepted
Contact: Bernie VanBenthem
I have the wheel hubs, steering knuckles and axle brackets (for those of you who have bent or busted yours, or, are doing a ford axle conversion).
Bernie Van Benthem
75911 From: John Stewart <landuse@u...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 4:36pm
Subject: Oceano SVRA/Coastal Commission meeting
According to recently released information, the California Coastal
Commission is expected to discuss the Oceano SVRA permit to operate
at their February meeting.
February 6, 2003 - 9 a.m.
Hyatt Regency Islandia & Marina
1441 Quivira Rd.
San Diego, CA 92109
619-224-1234
www.coastal.ca.gov/web/mtgcurr.html
--
John Stewart
Director, Environmental Affairs, UFWDA, http://www.ufwda.org
Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
Webmaster, Tierra del Sol 4x4: http://www.tds4x4.com
Webmaster, Jeep-L: http://www.jeep-l.net
75912 From: Randy Richards <rrichards13@m...> <rrichards13@m...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 5:13pm
Subject: Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
Man...I spent all day stacking those so my stock wrangler could make
it, thx alot. I thought it was 4.5 out of a 10 rating. haha
75913 From: John Stewart <landuse@u...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 5:37pm
Subject: Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
At 12:38 PM -0700 1/19/03, TODD MCCULLEN wrote:
>Just need to add my 2 cents, I agree with Sandee 100%
> Myself and some buddies went out yesterday to play and practice
>for the upcoming competition, and the day ended up being a work day.
>We started off on lower woodpecker, and found all the good spots
>ramped with rocks. We spent the first hour unstacking everything we
>could find. After that we headed over to bad medicine to check out
>the waterfall, we decided to do upper Ajax on the way. This ended up
>in a major derocking of the trail, and it could use more. We spent 2
>hours just removing rocks from the few hard spots on this trail.
>We did axle alley, and highway to hell a couple weeks ago and did
>the same thing. Heck axle alley was so paved it took us about five
>minutes to get to the first waterfall, when this trail was new it
>took a couple hours to get this far. This is an example of how the
>tough trails are being paved by people & rigs that did not belong
>there.
>The last waterfall on Bad Medicine is now passable, we managed to
>maneuver the rocks down to the bottom of the waterfall. It is not
>easy, so the people that worry about breakage or damage DO NOT DO
>THE TRAIL.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do a trail that you are capable of
>without ruining the trail for the ones that like the extreme
>challenge.
>I am sick and tired of every time I go out wheeling, I spend half
>the day UNSTACKING ROCKS. We do put winches on our rigs for a
>reason. If you cant not drive the obstacle without building ramps,
>use your WINCH.
>I could go on forever about this so I will stop now, GET THE POINT.
>
>Todd
>
>
I will take you to task on the central issue you are advocating:
If you are saying that the ONLY people on the trails are the ones
that want the extreme trail, you are no different than the GAG that
wants no one but them on foot on the trail.
If it is a trail on PUBLIC LAND and it is a recognized trail, making
the trail impassible except for a modified rig is a sure sign to get
the trail closed.
I agree that people with stock vehicles have no business on many of
the trails. By the same token, if you are going to limit access to
special class of rigs, you are asking for a trail closure, especially
if a case of bodily injury or death occurs.
BLM is not going to keep a trail open if it is cited as a liability.
Okay, now start the argument about how people need to have their own
insurance, yada, yada, yada and they should be responsible, yada,
yada, yada..
Making a trail difficult has caused a major problem with the Little
Sluice on the Rubicon.
Okay, you want extreme trails? Join the Rockcrawler groups and have
at it on a course. Keep in mind that a course can be set up and
removed. Trails are no different, they can be removed and will be
remove when they become a liability.
You need to remember that access to trails on PUBLIC LANDS needs to
be available to the PUBLIC. If you are going to advocate in land
management plans that trails be kept for extreme use, you are playing
into the GAGs hand. The argument becomes a losing battle because the
BLM is not going to keep trails for a few (elite CAPABILITY) at the
expense of many.
I have used the argument about the number of 4x4 recreationists that
are desiring access to trails and trying to say that the numbers
demand that trails be kept open as opposed to the limited number of
hikers that would otherwise have the area to themselves.
Now, you want to take the set of potential trail users and limit that
to the few who want extreme trails. Sorry, I will go out and help
stack the rocks so that more people from all skill levels can use the
trails. That is the only way we will be able to keep them open.
Access for ALL.
--
John Stewart
Director, Environmental Affairs, UFWDA, http://www.ufwda.org
Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
Webmaster, Tierra del Sol 4x4: http://www.tds4x4.com
Webmaster, Jeep-L: http://www.jeep-l.net
75914 From: Joe W <arizonajeep@c...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 5:43pm
Subject: RE: roof rack project
Mike,
That is a nice looking rack& you did a great job! Ive had a roof rack on my Wrangler since just after I purchased it and my Jeep just wouldnt be quite as useful without it.
The only drawback is that it raises your CG&. Just keep heavy stuff off of it on the rock runs and youll be fine.
Kind Regards,
Joe West
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Beckham [mailto:jeepnut7261@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 2:57 PM
To: Jeep club email; Phillip Thomson
Subject: [az_vjc] roof rack project
Here's a pic of my completed roof rack. I borrowed a friends bender, and rally had a ball!
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
75915 From: AzVJC Website <msa12171@a...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 5:57pm
Subject: [FS] FS: YJ Stuff
Price: Call
Contact: Eric, 480-650-3887
I have several rancho shocks.
a d35 NON C-CLIP rear wont come out when... oops I mean if you break it. has
3.73 gears
lock right for d35
np 241 for an auto matis 6 cyl. already has currie short shaft conversion. set up for use with CV style drive shaft. (not hack and tap) complete shaft replacement.
assorted steering rods and steering stabilizer, tie rod. sway bar.
have BRAND NEW HUB for front of TJ / YJ / XJ ; disks for front brakes D30
locker for ford 9 in BRAND NEW!!
call most of it you can have the rest we can deal on.
I NEED IT GONE !!
eric 480-650-3887 I dont check my email often so please call.
Mike Anderson
75916 From: Hackle <hackle@q...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:07pm
Subject: RE: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
John if you want everyone to be able to run every trail why is there a trail
rating system in effect complete with recommended equipment?
I every activity I have been involved in it has different levels that you
learn and equip your self to use. I snow ski also and while a beginner has
the option to run a black diamond it would not be suggested.
Even hiking has levels of trails that require experience to prepare yourself
and your equipment for.
This method of learning and building your vehicle to be prepared for the
challenges is a large part of what our sport is about. A vehicle that is
prepared for the trail you plan on running will do less damage to itself an
also the environment that the trail passes through. Just my two cents. Jim
F.
I refuse to belong to any group that would have me as a member. "Groucho
Marx"
Member of the original dirty half dozen.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jkflorence/index.htm/
http://www.rockrats.org/
75917 From: Eric <parajeeper02@y...> <parajeeper02@y...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:13pm
Subject: Re: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
John,
I totally disagree with you. If you stack a trail you better remove
the rocks when you complete the obstacle and if you bled fluids all
over the trail you better clean it up. So what you are telling me is
that I can go out to FJ with an asphalt truck and pave all the trials
out there I want to run so I can do the trail in my AWD subaru or my
mini cooper? I also noticed how you stated that you would go out and
stack the rocks but never gave the second thought to unstacking tehm
when you were finished. If that is truly the way you feel you are
part of the problem.
-- Eric
--- In az_vjc@yahoogroups.com, John Stewart <landuse@u...> wrote:
> At 12:38 PM -0700 1/19/03, TODD MCCULLEN wrote:
> >Just need to add my 2 cents, I agree with Sandee 100%
> > Myself and some buddies went out yesterday to play and
practice
> >for the upcoming competition, and the day ended up being a work
day.
> >We started off on lower woodpecker, and found all the good spots
> >ramped with rocks. We spent the first hour unstacking everything
we
> >could find. After that we headed over to bad medicine to check out
> >the waterfall, we decided to do upper Ajax on the way. This ended
up
> >in a major derocking of the trail, and it could use more. We spent
2
> >hours just removing rocks from the few hard spots on this trail.
> >We did axle alley, and highway to hell a couple weeks ago and did
> >the same thing. Heck axle alley was so paved it took us about five
> >minutes to get to the first waterfall, when this trail was new it
> >took a couple hours to get this far. This is an example of how the
> >tough trails are being paved by people & rigs that did not belong
> >there.
> >The last waterfall on Bad Medicine is now passable, we managed to
> >maneuver the rocks down to the bottom of the waterfall. It is not
> >easy, so the people that worry about breakage or damage DO NOT DO
> >THE TRAIL.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do a trail that you are capable of
> >without ruining the trail for the ones that like the extreme
> >challenge.
> >I am sick and tired of every time I go out wheeling, I spend half
> >the day UNSTACKING ROCKS. We do put winches on our rigs for a
> >reason. If you cant not drive the obstacle without building ramps,
> >use your WINCH.
> >I could go on forever about this so I will stop now, GET THE POINT.
> >
> >Todd
> >
> >
>
>
> I will take you to task on the central issue you are advocating:
>
> If you are saying that the ONLY people on the trails are the ones
> that want the extreme trail, you are no different than the GAG that
> wants no one but them on foot on the trail.
>
> If it is a trail on PUBLIC LAND and it is a recognized trail,
making
> the trail impassible except for a modified rig is a sure sign to
get
> the trail closed.
>
> I agree that people with stock vehicles have no business on many of
> the trails. By the same token, if you are going to limit access to
> special class of rigs, you are asking for a trail closure,
especially
> if a case of bodily injury or death occurs.
>
> BLM is not going to keep a trail open if it is cited as a
liability.
> Okay, now start the argument about how people need to have their
own
> insurance, yada, yada, yada and they should be responsible, yada,
> yada, yada..
>
> Making a trail difficult has caused a major problem with the Little
> Sluice on the Rubicon.
>
> Okay, you want extreme trails? Join the Rockcrawler groups and
have
> at it on a course. Keep in mind that a course can be set up and
> removed. Trails are no different, they can be removed and will be
> remove when they become a liability.
>
> You need to remember that access to trails on PUBLIC LANDS needs to
> be available to the PUBLIC. If you are going to advocate in land
> management plans that trails be kept for extreme use, you are
playing
> into the GAGs hand. The argument becomes a losing battle because
the
> BLM is not going to keep trails for a few (elite CAPABILITY) at the
> expense of many.
>
> I have used the argument about the number of 4x4 recreationists
that
> are desiring access to trails and trying to say that the numbers
> demand that trails be kept open as opposed to the limited number of
> hikers that would otherwise have the area to themselves.
>
> Now, you want to take the set of potential trail users and limit
that
> to the few who want extreme trails. Sorry, I will go out and help
> stack the rocks so that more people from all skill levels can use
the
> trails. That is the only way we will be able to keep them open.
> Access for ALL.
>
>
> --
> John Stewart
> Director, Environmental Affairs, UFWDA, http://www.ufwda.org
> Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
> Webmaster, Tierra del Sol 4x4: http://www.tds4x4.com
> Webmaster, Jeep-L: http://www.jeep-l.net
75918 From: Stu Olson <solson8@q...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:35pm
Subject: RE: Trail blockage, Rock stackers
John,
While I don't run at the same vehicle level as Todd (I fully admit that
my TJ is not built like any of his vehicles), I will certainly defend
Todd's comments.
We enjoy a large number of trails here in Arizona (luckily) that provide
fun for vehicles ranging from the stock equipped Sunday afternoon picnic
crowd to the highest capability rock buggies. I view it very much like
the ski slopes at Aspen or any other ski resort....bunny hills for the
new folks, black diamond runs for those that are capable.
So please answer me a question.....of what benefit is converting all of
the tails into the picnic trails? Is this suppose to encourage those
who have something more than a stock vehicle to stay on the trails and
not seek something more challenging? I think not.
I was fortunate enough to attend the NOHVCC conference held here in
Phoenix this past October. One thing I learned, as did the land
management people, is that the Joe Public will go out to THEIR public
lands and have fun on the weekends. Unfortunately, if that means
blazing a new trail because NONE exist that are challenging enough for
them, they WILL blaze them. If challenging trails are available, the
chances of someone wildcatting a new one is greatly reduced. We had
land management personnel give presentations that stated that a
successful trail network, for the public's use on THEIR land, MUST have
trails that are many in numbers and appeal to all levels of users.
As to the liability issue....sorry, I don't think I can fully support
your opinion on that either. We recently had a Jeeper kill himself (a
relative of a person at my work in fact). It was not done on a hard
core "extreme" trail....it was done on one that a stock Jeep can
navigate. In my opinion, the liability issue rests with those people
who are NOT adequately prepared (read this as lacking in driving
skills). It is one thing to lay a rock buggy over on its side while
attempting a difficult waterfall or such. It is another to roll your
vehicle down a 700' mountain side because you could not keep it on a
piece of 2.5 level trail (read the trail was basically flat). The
previous Jeep OHV accident I can recall was on a "Trail" that is
routinely run by any SUV or pickup truck (heck, it is graded every now
and then). This guy took the corner too fast and shot off the road and
went some 70' down into a wash. You can call it anecdotal evidence, but
from what I see, the "Extremist" seem to be the least of our accident
problems here in Arizona.
As for joining a Rock Crawler group and competing, Todd McCullen does
compete. As he stated, he and friends had gone out to practice for an
upcoming event. What is it that these folks are suppose to practice
on....the picnic trails? You advise them to get serious about the sport
but advocate no challenging trails on which they can hone their skills.
I am sorry John, but you can not have it both ways.
As for the Rubicon's Little Sluice....I've been on that trail, a year
ago last August. The ONLY problem the Rubicon Trail has, in my opinion,
is the **** load of drunks that go there to party. I am sorry, but the
drunks I have seen seem fully capable of causing harm and even death to
themselves or anyone around, be it on flat ground or a big rock
obstacle.
I have been reading your posts to this reflector since you started
sending them this direction. I've never met you nor do I really know
much about you (as you do me). However, I must say I was completely
shocked to see your comments. If I didn't know better, I would say that
some anti-recreationist (I refuse to call them environmentalist because
I am an environmentalist) hacked your userID and password and sent the
note to our e-mail list.
Respectfully,
Stu Olson
www.stu-offroad.com
-----Original Message-----
From: John Stewart [mailto:landuse@u...]
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 6:38 PM
To: TODD MCCULLEN; az_vjc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [az_vjc] Trail blockage, Rock stackers
At 12:38 PM -0700 1/19/03, TODD MCCULLEN wrote:
>Just need to add my 2 cents, I agree with Sandee 100%
> Myself and some buddies went out yesterday to play and practice
>for the upcoming competition, and the day ended up being a work day.
>We started off on lower woodpecker, and found all the good spots
>ramped with rocks. We spent the first hour unstacking everything we
>could find. After that we headed over to bad medicine to check out
>the waterfall, we decided to do upper Ajax on the way. This ended up
>in a major derocking of the trail, and it could use more. We spent 2
>hours just removing rocks from the few hard spots on this trail.
>We did axle alley, and highway to hell a couple weeks ago and did
>the same thing. Heck axle alley was so paved it took us about five
>minutes to get to the first waterfall, when this trail was new it
>took a couple hours to get this far. This is an example of how the
>tough trails are being paved by people & rigs that did not belong
>there.
>The last waterfall on Bad Medicine is now passable, we managed to
>maneuver the rocks down to the bottom of the waterfall. It is not
>easy, so the people that worry about breakage or damage DO NOT DO
>THE TRAIL.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do a trail that you are capable of
>without ruining the trail for the ones that like the extreme
>challenge.
>I am sick and tired of every time I go out wheeling, I spend half
>the day UNSTACKING ROCKS. We do put winches on our rigs for a
>reason. If you cant not drive the obstacle without building ramps,
>use your WINCH.
>I could go on forever about this so I will stop now, GET THE POINT.
>
>Todd
>
>
I will take you to task on the central issue you are advocating:
If you are saying that the ONLY people on the trails are the ones
that want the extreme trail, you are no different than the GAG that
wants no one but them on foot on the trail.
If it is a trail on PUBLIC LAND and it is a recognized trail, making
the trail impassible except for a modified rig is a sure sign to get
the trail closed.
I agree that people with stock vehicles have no business on many of
the trails. By the same token, if you are going to limit access to
special class of rigs, you are asking for a trail closure, especially
if a case of bodily injury or death occurs.
BLM is not going to keep a trail open if it is cited as a liability.
Okay, now start the argument about how people need to have their own
insurance, yada, yada, yada and they should be responsible, yada,
yada, yada..
Making a trail difficult has caused a major problem with the Little
Sluice on the Rubicon.
Okay, you want extreme trails? Join the Rockcrawler groups and have
at it on a course. Keep in mind that a course can be set up and
removed. Trails are no different, they can be removed and will be
remove when they become a liability.
You need to remember that access to trails on PUBLIC LANDS needs to
be available to the PUBLIC. If you are going to advocate in land
management plans that trails be kept for extreme use, you are playing
into the GAGs hand. The argument becomes a losing battle because the
BLM is not going to keep trails for a few (elite CAPABILITY) at the
expense of many.
I have used the argument about the number of 4x4 recreationists that
are desiring access to trails and trying to say that the numbers
demand that trails be kept open as opposed to the limited number of
hikers that would otherwise have the area to themselves.
Now, you want to take the set of potential trail users and limit that
to the few who want extreme trails. Sorry, I will go out and help
stack the rocks so that more people from all skill levels can use the
trails. That is the only way we will be able to keep them open.
Access for ALL.
--
John Stewart
Director, Environmental Affairs, UFWDA, http://www.ufwda.org
Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
Webmaster, Tierra del Sol 4x4: http://www.tds4x4.com
Webmaster, Jeep-L: http://www.jeep-l.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
75919 From: dustin mattal <dmattal2@h...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:40pm
Subject: Re: [TR] Unspecified - Friday, January 24, 2003 - Reminder
u can count me in!
>From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@azvjc.org>
>Reply-To: nasser88@cox.net
>To: AzVJC <az_vjc@YahooGroups.com>
>Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Unspecified - Friday, January 24, 2003 - Reminder
>Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:31:17 (GMT)
>
__________________________________________________ _______________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
To: AzVJC az_vjc@Y...
From: AzVJC Website azvjc@a...
Mailing-List: list az_vjc@yahoogroups.com; contact az_vjc-owner@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:31:17 (GMT)
Subject: [az_vjc] [TR] Unspecified - Friday, January 24, 2003 - Reminder
Hello All,
Nasser Pirshafiey is leading an Unspecified trail run on Friday, January 24, 2003.
When: 5:45 pm
Where: North East corner of McQueen and Warner in Gilbert
Rating: None
Length: 2 + hours
CB Channel:
Jeep and Auto Show
Every Friday night a number of automobile enthusiasts gather and show their collectors, hot rods, military, etc. They would like to see our Jeeps again!!
We had a showing last July and it was a lot fun. It is a great opportunity to show our rigs and meet other AZVJC members.
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
75920 From: Coxy8 <coxy8@y...> <coxy8@y...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:44pm
Subject: Alignment shop
Can anyone tell me a good alignment shop. Will they adjust my caster?
I just installed my LA upgrade kit and have some slight vibes. I
tried to adjust it myself w/ an angle finder but can't get it dialed
in.
Thanks,
Jeff Cox
75921 From: Coxy8 <coxy8@y...> <coxy8@y...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:44pm
Subject: Alignment shop
Can anyone tell me a good alignment shop. Will they adjust my caster?
I just installed my LA upgrade kit and have some slight vibes. I
tried to adjust it myself w/ an angle finder but can't get it dialed
in.
Thanks,
Jeff Cox
75922 From: AzVJC Website <martinida@c...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:50pm
Subject: [TR] Powerline Trail - Monday, January 20, 2003
Hello All,
Martin Ward is leading a Powerline Trail trail run on Monday, January 20, 2003.
When: Meet at FloJo Texaco at 1000
Where:
Rating: 3.5
Length: All day
CB Channel: 14
Bring a camera, lunch and water. Last time I went thru here it had a 3' puddle to traverse. I believe a stock vehicle can make it as my did it fine. Other than that it was rocky and took all day.
The Powerline Trail does a figure 8 as you travel along the powerline, up a off-camber hill and then back down to a grassy meadow and back up another slippery "switchback" trail.
This trail is truly a challenge for the moderate 4-wheeler. Some type of locking device is recommended, as well as clearance and 31' tires. Totally stock vehicles and/or novice drivers are not recommended. This is an all day trip. Don't forget your lunch &; water.
Enjoy and remember to TREAD Lightly!
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
75923 From: <hunteroffroad@a...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 1:50pm
Subject: Hunters BBQ Moved to FEB 16th.
OK Gang,
I am sorry about the scheduleing conflict. I really pooched that one, I did not notice Chris Benner's trip on the Sunday the 9th. Everythign will be the same.. Just one weekend later. So, I moved mine to next weekend the 16th.. That way everyone can make everythign and the world will be a happy place.
Sorry again..
Best regards
john K
75924 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:51pm
Subject: [TR] Club BBQ - Sunday, February 9, 2003 - Reminder
Hello All,
John Hunter Kanicsar is leading a Club BBQ trail run on Sunday, February 9, 2003.
When: Sunday, Feb 9th, 1:00 pm
Where: Parking lot at Hunter Offroad
Rating: 2.0-
Length: 5 Hours
CB Channel: 4
Hey everyone. It is the 3rd-Semi-Sorta-Annual AZVJC BBQ! Back by popular demand....Its BBQ time!
For those of you that have been to this in the past, you know the drill. Food, family and folding chairs.
For those of you that are new, (a map can be found at www.hunteroffroad.com) or havent heard about it, here is the scoop: Bring your Jeep, or fav 4x4, family and freinds, some food or soda, and folding chairs. It is the time to catch up with freinds, have some good food, show your stuff on the RTI ramp, compare notes with others on what they did with there jeeps and, most importalty, have good time.
BBQ hints and notes...
Time: Because of the colder weather, this will start at 1:00 pm and run until 6ish I guess.. I plan on haveing a good raffel as well too.
Parking: The last BBQ I had there were over 125 Jeeps there, The BBQ started at 4 I think and the parking lot was full by 4:15 , so if you want a good spot, come a little early or on time early. Also this time, parking can be done in the street, but I would like addtional parking to be done in the area behind by shop. The doors will be open, easy acces to be had be all. I just get nervous with kids and the street.. All though, on Sunday, my buiness park should be all to ourselves.
Volunteers: Food, I am not to worries about it, both times, the club has done a great job all on its own bringing enough food and drinks, as along as everyone brings a litte, we will be fine. I will need help with Cooking, and need grills and tables (big).. "Wanna a be a BBQ hero?" bring a grill Also, need some one(s) to work the ramp.. (Hackle??) Maybe someone(s) to work the raffle tickets?? If you can think of something you would like to do, feel free to ask. I could use all the help I can get.
And Remember, PLEASE, sign up so I can keep track of how many are coming.
More updates and news to follow.. Talk to you soon.
Warmest Regards
John H Kanicsar
Club BBQ.
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
75925 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:52pm
Subject: [TR] Club BBQ - Sunday, February 16, 2003 - Reminder
Hello All,
John Hunter Kanicsar is leading a Club BBQ trail run on Sunday, February 16, 2003.
When: Sunday, Feb 9th, 1:00 pm
Where: Parking lot at Hunter Offroad
Rating: 2.0-
Length: 5 Hours
CB Channel: 4
Hey everyone. It is the 3rd-Semi-Sorta-Annual AZVJC BBQ! Back by popular demand....Its BBQ time!
For those of you that have been to this in the past, you know the drill. Food, family and folding chairs.
For those of you that are new, (a map can be found at www.hunteroffroad.com) or havent heard about it, here is the scoop: Bring your Jeep, or fav 4x4, family and freinds, some food or soda, and folding chairs. It is the time to catch up with freinds, have some good food, show your stuff on the RTI ramp, compare notes with others on what they did with there jeeps and, most importalty, have good time.
BBQ hints and notes...
Time: Because of the colder weather, this will start at 1:00 pm and run until 6ish I guess.. I plan on haveing a good raffel as well too.
Parking: The last BBQ I had there were over 125 Jeeps there, The BBQ started at 4 I think and the parking lot was full by 4:15 , so if you want a good spot, come a little early or on time early. Also this time, parking can be done in the street, but I would like addtional parking to be done in the area behind by shop. The doors will be open, easy acces to be had be all. I just get nervous with kids and the street.. All though, on Sunday, my buiness park should be all to ourselves.
Volunteers: Food, I am not to worries about it, both times, the club has done a great job all on its own bringing enough food and drinks, as along as everyone brings a litte, we will be fine. I will need help with Cooking, and need grills and tables (big).. "Wanna a be a BBQ hero?" bring a grill Also, need some one(s) to work the ramp.. (Hackle??) Maybe someone(s) to work the raffle tickets?? If you can think of something you would like to do, feel free to ask. I could use all the help I can get.
And Remember, PLEASE, sign up so I can keep track of how many are coming.
More updates and news to follow.. Talk to you soon.
Warmest Regards
John H Kanicsar
Club BBQ.
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website
75926 From: AzVJC Website <azvjc@a...>
Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:54pm
Subject: [TR] Club BBQ - Sunday, February 16, 2003 - Reminder
Hello All,
John Hunter Kanicsar is leading a Club BBQ trail run on Sunday, February 16, 2003.
When: Sunday, Feb 9th, 1:00 pm
Where: Parking lot at Hunter Offroad
Rating: 2.0-
Length: 5 Hours
CB Channel: 4
Hey everyone. It is the 3rd-Semi-Sorta-Annual AZVJC BBQ! Back by popular demand....Its BBQ time!
For those of you that have been to this in the past, you know the drill. Food, family and folding chairs.
For those of you that are new, (a map can be found at www.hunteroffroad.com) or havent heard about it, here is the scoop: Bring your Jeep, or fav 4x4, family and freinds, some food or soda, and folding chairs. It is the time to catch up with freinds, have some good food, show your stuff on the RTI ramp, compare notes with others on what they did with there jeeps and, most importalty, have good time.
BBQ hints and notes...
Time: Because of the colder weather, this will start at 1:00 pm and run until 6ish I guess.. I plan on haveing a good raffel as well too.
Parking: The last BBQ I had there were over 125 Jeeps there, The BBQ started at 4 I think and the parking lot was full by 4:15 , so if you want a good spot, come a little early or on time early. Also this time, parking can be done in the street, but I would like addtional parking to be done in the area behind by shop. The doors will be open, easy acces to be had be all. I just get nervous with kids and the street.. All though, on Sunday, my buiness park should be all to ourselves.
Volunteers: Food, I am not to worries about it, both times, the club has done a great job all on its own bringing enough food and drinks, as along as everyone brings a litte, we will be fine. I will need help with Cooking, and need grills and tables (big).. "Wanna a be a BBQ hero?" bring a grill Also, need some one(s) to work the ramp.. (Hackle??) Maybe someone(s) to work the raffle tickets?? If you can think of something you would like to do, feel free to ask. I could use all the help I can get.
And Remember, PLEASE, sign up so I can keep track of how many are coming.
More updates and news to follow.. Talk to you soon.
Warmest Regards
John H Kanicsar
Club BBQ.
Click Here To Add Your Name to the Sign Up List
Thank You,
- The AzVJC Website